2729: How To Get Jacked and Ripped As A Teenager

28:55So what you sometimes see on social media is that training postpartum, and I'm trying to find it. I took a screenshot of it. There it is. that training, you know, after pregnancy, it takes six weeks to get yourself back into shape and whatever. Uh, that's actually not the case. What they're finding is, uh, it takes a lot longer than people realize. In fact, in my experience, when I trained women who, uh, had a baby and then they came and hired me or they, I trained them before, during and after in my experience, women don't feel 100 % like they used to for about a year or two. And I want to say that to women listening right now who are hard on themselves after they have a baby and it's six months later and they're like, I should be back to what I was, you know, why can't I do what I did before or whatever?

29:46The data supports this. So there's research that was published in the European Journal of Obstret, I can't say it, I don't know, Gynecology and Reproductive Biology reveals that a woman's body requires far more time to fully recover after childbirth than previously believed. So the study shows that the body continues to heal internally from organ repositioning and connective tissue repair to long-term hormonal balancing. The brain also undergoes gradual changes, adapting from pregnancy and postpartum shifts in cognition and emotion. So it's like a year or two, everybody. Yeah, the healing. That doesn't mean you shouldn't work out as though.

30:23So I've seen, I've trained the entire spectrum, but I will agree with you that more of those ladies fell on the year to two years. So I also trained the rare anomalies that also, and I'd say the most common thing that I could say about them that was unique was how incredibly healthy and fit they went into the pregnancy. Of course, yeah. And even that didn't always matter because there was some, I've trained women that were incredibly fit and healthy and just they had a lot of hormonal stuff happen and complications, and then it did take a good year, year and a half before they really felt themselves again.

31:00So it didn't guarantee it would be a six-week, three-month bounce back. But the ones that did, they all had that. I rarely ever had somebody who didn't go into their pregnancy healthy, fit, and strong and then also came out of it six weeks later they were rocking the weights back to where they were. And even those really, really fit and healthy people going into pregnancy, they get in good shape and stuff six months later. But if you ask them, do you feel like you used to when you were in peak health? And they'll say no. No, I'm still a little off. The connection is still, yeah. It takes time.

31:36It takes a while. Well, especially, too, if you're breastfeeding still and doing, there's a lot of things going on still hormonal. Oh, yeah, sleeve and everything else. But we've given, like, I don't know, like, if it's media or celebrities, they put out this, like, this false messaging that's, like, you bounce back. No, it's the halo effect that we have with even, like, athletes. We always want to point out the one anomaly athlete who has got the crazy physique and he's a football player and he eats Skittles all day. You know what I'm saying? And then everybody's like, oh, look, you can do Skittles, play football.

32:09I can have candy and look jacked. Yeah, be jacked. It's like, no, you're looking at an anomaly, and that's the same thing that we see with the pregnant women that look crazy jacked right after their baby. And that's not to take anything from that woman that probably put the work in too, because I think it requires that also, right? Like I think that, but I've seen and I've trained even women that go into it with that. And I also noticed a difference too, Sal, with the number of kids. So there seems to be, and I'd love to see the studies on this, there seems to be - 100 it seems to be uh significantly easier for the woman uh kid number one that's right that went in with crochet versus the second time around that's right because i've also trained women like that though it's like man i did all the same things as i did baby one yep baby two this shit is just way harder you know part of that what part of that is is that typically you'll have one kid and then you'll wait two years and then get pregnant again so you're just coming back to normal boom you have another kid when they have a gap then you start to see some bounce back uh that you know that reflects more of what happened the first one but most people multiple kids it's like yeah it's two years in between so it's like oh i just started to bounce back boom get pregnant again yeah now you're right back that's a good point i didn't even think about that that way because it's not i'm trying to think if i have you like five years apart yeah like i imagine i wonder if katrina got pregnant now right with max being six years old like would it be more like her first pregnancy because she had that much time in between.

33:36And that's rare. Most people don't do that that way. Most people run the kids relatively close back to back. Most people are not looking for that big of an age gap or whatever. So I want to talk about our partners at Rock Recovery. I have a friend who's struggled with certain addictions and something really came to me, the value of going to a rehab facility like rock recovery and i experienced this myself uh nothing crazy but you know i talked about on the show how i came off kratom and i've done that with cannabis in the past and for me a lot of it was the fear of what it's going to feel like to come off like that period of time where i'm going to suck essentially and i think there's a lot of value in that for people when they're like man i'm going to go off this thing it's going to be a rough 30 60 90 days that's the value of going to a place like this it's like they're gonna be there for you when you're going through it and take care of you and give you the the tools necessary and the coaching because that's the real that initial acute phase that takes a lot of coaching a lot of coaching and it's really tough well it's a lot of people it's easy when you are in your normal life especially when you have an addiction to something like that to go oh man you know i've got this many days but then i got this one thing or i've got this that's right and it's like and and or how do i show up for my family yeah and and there and there so to to be able to give yourself the time you need to really break free of those chains is is tough to do that in your normal setting especially when it's grabbed hold of you like that that much it's like so being able to completely take you out of this and that That is your focus is get better and everything there is dedicated to that versus in the real world, you have all these good excuses that are hard to not justify.

35:30Like, ah, man, I'll do it next week or I'll do it the week after. And so it's really easy to put it off. And so I would imagine that would be – I mean, I've never checked myself into something like that, but I could see that's why I would do something like that. It's like, okay. Dedicated, the acute phase of this sucks or whatever. And their scholarship, I think, is it three months, Doug? Is that how long? I believe it's 60 days. 60 days? Yeah, 60-day scholarship. So they give away to our listeners, if you go to their website, which is rockrecovery.com? rockrecoverycenter.com. rockrecoverycenter.com forward slash mindpump.

36:04And they're giving away, they give away a scholarship to one of our listeners. So it's covered. You go there for 60 days and they pay for everything and you stay there. Yeah, so rad. And you go through that whole thing. And they've been incredible, even the people that don't win. that they're helping them out and trying to at least point them in the right direction. It's really cool. Definitely, definitely. If you are struggling or have a family member, that is. They'll coach you. Yeah. They'll coach you. All right, so there's a study or an article, I should say, of a study. God, I hate it when they do this with headlines.

36:34That is just, five people must have sent it to me. It went crazy in our forum. And in the forum, I'm like, you guys, let's back up for a second. I missed this. Read the study, and what do you think is happening here? So here's what the study showed, okay? People in this study who use melatonin nightly over the last year had a 90 % increased chance of having heart failure. That's the title of the article. Of course. Yeah, that is alarming. So everybody's like, oh, my God. Especially if you're taking melatonin. That's right. Who's most likely to be taking those melatonin pills? People that have probably had chronic sleep issues for their whole entire life.

37:14And it's from poor health. And they're unhealthy. Which is the real issue. That's right. I would like to see if those people got no melatonin. That title. Well, that's what it is. Spicy. They didn't control for that. Yeah. They didn't control for that. So, for example, I could say. I mean, the flip on that is you take the entire private forum who are all health conscious people that are working out, take melatonin for one year and see if that stat comes out the same way. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. And that's the thing about this article. It's flying everywhere. And they didn't control for that.

37:44They just looked at people who, this is why you got to be very careful with headlines and studies. Like, okay, well, what kind of person, like, did they control for that? If they did, then there'd be something interesting. It's like, oh my God, this is a healthy population. They compared it against the control. Is the melatonin causing this? But no, what they're doing is people who chronically take melatonin are also the people that suffer from sleep issues, which also is strongly correlated. Which is a much deeper issue. And we've talked about how dangerous and how bad really poor sleep is. And also, why do you have that poor sleep?

38:17And the odds of having poor sleep when you have diabetes, obesity, stress, hormone issues are through the roof. So there's - I didn't even see that. It's in the forum right now? Yeah. People were freaking out, dude. I'm taking - Wait a minute. I thought - Should I stop taking this? I can see. Back up for a second. I can see the paranoia immediately. I mean, wouldn't you say, Sal - I mean, I feel this way. I'm also like, you know, negative Nancy when it comes to the studies. Like, I feel like most studies are like this. Yeah. I feel like you, okay, maybe your meta-analysis are. It's like overhyped.

38:50Like, yeah. Sensationalism. When you have a meta-analysis, that's better because it's done over, what, tons of studies. Yeah, they're looking at several studies. Right. Really what it is, studies aren't bad. Studies are as good as you can understand them. So what kind of information can I extract from this? that's the study the problem is people want clicks on their articles so if i'm a if i'm i don't know journalist i don't have to call journalists anymore if i have a website or or a page for health and i see this study that says users of melatonin tension hustlers and yeah i'm like this is what's going in the headline and for sure people are going to share the hell out of it yeah uh it's like saying you know people god what would be a good one right people who use elderberry regularly are more likely to get the flu.

39:37Does elderberry cause the flu or is it that you have the flu so you're taking elderberry? Yeah, people who take painkillers all the time suffer from more pain. Well, yeah, that's why they're taking painkillers. So we got to control for some of these things before we flip out. There's another study on dinner together, which is pretty cool. I'll read to you guys what the study shows. Like with families and stuff? Yeah. Well, didn't they bring that up in the focus on the family? They did. That was part of the topic. That was like one of the most powerful things. In fact, I really love what they're doing because they studied over 10 ,000 families.

40:09And I think dinner was one of the most important things, like dinner together. And then also how they started the conversation. So I don't know if you went, are you going that direction at all? So even, I got to go back and look so I get my facts right. But it was like bringing up a topic of something that brings you present. like um it smells nice in here oh to the moment yes oh so so they they found that not only having the dinner is was the first step and then so it doesn't become this kind of transactional dinner and distraction still and you're not like and you're all just talking about the traditional stuff what's going on your day did you do your homework blah blah it's like bringing them completely present in the moment god it was a beautiful day today did you did you feel like that in the moment yes oh that's so so they talked about the attachment yeah yeah just to become present about that and yeah and detach from all the hustle and bustle of the day and all the things and becoming this moment together it's like the dinner part is the most important part bring it there and then the next layer to that is starting the conversation that brings everybody in in the here and now moment like oh my god this steak smells fantastic how does yours smell or like bringing you in i i have i heard another good one i'll get to the study everybody but i heard another good one where because sometimes it's hard to get your teenagers to to talk so you pick them up from school oh how was school today fine you know what do you mean what happened what's it like being a 15 year old is that well no yeah well i have a good this is just one basic one but it's really good so you pick them up from school or whatever you say all right if you had to give a movie title to today at school what would it be oh that's cool and then they'll give you the movie title and then it turns into a great discussion a great discussion because it's like bro you just wait i don't know maybe your son will be different but you ever get that just oh yeah you're constantly pulling more things no more threads so like where's this thread they talked about this in the mentor family also and if and i thought this was such a great hack instead of asking your kid like that vague question of like how how was your day or things like that it's like what you do is instead of making it about them you frame it about being like so you would say something like what's it like being a 13 year old at a high school these days yeah and so then they they they talk about what it's like but it's really they're talking about themselves versus you saying like you know what's your like if you direct it towards them and you put the spotlight on them they tend to just deflect or oh whatever dad whatever versus like that's why the movie thing works so well is because you're not really asking specific about their day which you kind of are in an indirect way and so that was one of the tips for getting the kids to engage more is like asking them a question like that what's it like being you know a 13 year old in a middle school this big you know what's that like asking that versus asking them specifically what was your day like or well you know then they give you some vague answer i love it yeah the other thing too is just having them put their phone down and you just sit in the car with nothing and sometimes there's nothing sometimes it's just quiet which is okay but sometimes it's like they're bored and they just start talking and i love it i absolutely love it it's the best now i start hitting my kids like when it gets awkward and then they laugh or whatever and it brings up you know like different topics and things but i don't know i'm a bit more physical i probably wouldn't work yeah yeah yeah yeah i can't do that but no i just flick his ear you know pull his hair yeah okay so i'm curious because the kid you guys have older kids and they have phones and things like that do you uh do you have is it like a give me your phone when you get in the car or like how do you do that to get them to to to not be on their phone as soon as we get in all right slap out his hand yeah i just said we're not gonna mess around hey hey we're not gonna be on our phones uh during the drive and you don't get oh come on at first you might but now it's like you know because then what follows up is like well i'll take your phone if you need me to all right so here's a study this was a study uh from columbia university and it said that children who have dinner with their family at least four times a week perform better academically regular their family meals provide opportunities for communication emotional bonding parental engagement so basically they just connected it to academic performance and said that they they perform better academically but what's interesting about this you want to talk about a culture shift it wasn't that long ago where maybe one or two generations ago where this was a staple oh you always had dinner with your family this is so rare even my even my family did that yeah like i mean you talk about we've talked plenty of the how dysfunctional my family was we had dinner every night together we did do that we did least of that that was nor and i i as i've always assumed that's really normal it's not like anymore no traditional value kind of thing that you know like 50s i just i just remember that was like even on tv like they would all you know dinner was like the prayer they used to have breakfast and dinner together yeah everybody gets up and eats breakfast nobody has breakfast together that one forget that one yeah but dinner is like i had this so my my My wife didn't grow up this way.

45:11They had dinner just when they ate. So, oh, you're hungry? Grab some food. Oh, you want to eat? Oh, so that must make that even more challenging for you guys. At first it was. She was like, why do we have to get everybody together or whatever? But now she's like totally bought in. By the way, I get the challenge of it. I text her when I'm on my own home. She organizes three courses. It's all ready. You got to get everybody at the table, ready to go. But the value is sometimes this is the only time you guys all sit down together. Oftentimes it is. oftentimes you got you know two kids three kids like this is the one time when we're all sitting together and because we have a meal it's not just let's just all sit around a table and do nothing i think i think there's even more there sal i do because i we we spend a lot of time with max max is attached to me at the hip i i get him with it as soon as he's at home from school we play like that there is something and i still and i still had um we this is something that we've recently got better at it.

46:03In fact, I scored myself a five on my legacy wheel for this because I think we can still get way better. But Katrina and I, this last year, made a real cautious effort to try and make every night a family night. And still to this day, it's been almost a year consistently of us doing it. And I'd say we're five for seven a week consistently because weekends can get a little, we're eating out or we have family or we have parties and stuff like that. So I'd say we were five for seven most weeks. Maybe a bad week would be four for seven. And he still grumbles. Family dinner night or what that, because before that we weren't really consistent at all with it.

46:45And so even already just making that. But I do, I mean, I love it. And I'm trying to get to the place right now. I always say dinner prayer and so I want him to want to do it and I haven't got him to want to do it yet. He always defers. No, I don't want to. Okay. So I don't force him to do it right now. And so I have it, but I do feel the value from it. And I think it's more than just because we spend a lot of time together. No, you're right. You know what I'm saying? There's something else there about breaking bread with your family in the moment. There's definitely no phones at the table too.

47:18So there's no distraction of television dinner it's about us and so um yeah i don't know i don't know i i don't even know how to explain it but i think there's even more there than just that because i don't think we i think we do a really good job of the other stuff still so from for i'll tell you i'll tell you from my perspective as a kid this was like you had dinner together as a family i don't care what you're doing you're gonna sit down at the table as a kid it's the only way we could eat well it was that was that food yeah yeah there's only well in my house it was in my house i don't care what you're doing you come home and have dinner with your family my dad was like big this is very traditional sicilian my mom cooked and so i was like everybody was always together my dad worked a lot but he always showed up for dinner and as a kid i didn't see the value i saw no value in it i could whatever here we go it wasn't until i moved out that i went oh man i missed that oh that's so valuable And then having your own kids made it so valuable.

48:13So he might not see it until later, but there's value in it regardless. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm trying right now because I told you I'm four or five for seven is I'm trying to make Sunday nights. I told my mother-in-law the last, because I cooked for her, I was like, hey, I'd like to make this every Sunday night. And she's like - That's wonderful. I said, yeah, I will cook. I said, I will cook for us. Good for you, dude. That's my night to barbecue and do everything like that is I would like to do that and make that like a traditional thing. And this is new for us. Like it's not, we haven't been consistent, but I want that to be consistent.

48:41That's cool because you know what you're doing? You're breaking, what do they call it? Like generational cycles. And so you're now the beginning this cycle that will continue, which is really cool. Anyway, yesterday, Adam and I, I had this wonderful, I know. I had this wonderful, like, well, it's one of those realization when you're doing something, you're like, what am I complaining about? Yeah, but first, I feel like you have to set the table with Justin. So Justin had stuff to do. He had to do the trainer stuff. Yeah, we're talking to the trainer. And he's like grumbling about getting ready to do that, right?

49:09and then Sal and I are like you know how it is with me teaching it's like all eyes on me this is an uncomfortable thing for me I'm like I'm working through that you guys should get to go shopping you know what I will gladly trade you like that and then Justin thought about it for a second actually I'm good you know what can I just touch on that you do such a good job teaching Justin you're so good at it it's so wild to me that you feel like that thanks for saying that but it really doesn't feel like that Once you coach these trainers, and I'm like, man, he is, they're all engaged. You're really teaching him good stuff.

49:45You're funny. You're good at it. He's hypercritical of himself. Yeah, I'm very, very critical. He's such a dick to yourself. I said a bad word, so we're going to call it. I can't believe it. Yeah, I am. And it's true. Anyway, we had to go do a commercial for Viore, and we always grumble whenever we have to do anything like that because it's, well, because it's not this. This is real conversation. but now you're recording me and I'm supposed to do this thing and it just feels like that's so anti just our personality but anyway we go to Viore we love Viore love the company and we're there and two things number one just for the audience did you notice all the non the new non athleisure wear clothing that they're introducing there's a lot of clothes that are not like workout clothes they're just like nice clothes like nice clothes yeah like really cool looking so one of the questions that so yeah it has changed a bit you know the team the editing team has like you know stuff to prompt us and one of the things i was prompted at that i was recording who knows this will make it in the ad or not but they they're like talk about the evolution of viore for the seven years you guys have been working as a partnership seven years yeah yeah and so i i talked about how you know when they first started they were this very surfer men's athleisure wear kind of counter like the or the opposite of lulu a little bit or the that were filled the gaps like that was kind of the male competitor and of course we're attracted to that that's uh justin's got surfer vibes all day long like we all like athleisure wear style yeah yeah yeah so i mean we were drawn to it from day one shake the sax um but to see it now and to be and we're at the santana row which is a big one of their big stores and to look around and it's just like, dude, they got everything.

51:32They got cool vests and flannels and jackets and hoodies and like sweats or like comfy stuff. It's a really nice sweater, like this really high quality looking like nice sweater. I got it from my wife and I'm like, this is not workout clothes. This is just nice clothes. Yeah, no, it's got everything. My favorite part about their stuff that I love is that I, this is why I'm such a fan of like the meta joggers because they have that almost slack look to them, but they're not, they're joggers. and so if I throw a t-shirt and a peacoat on like I that's my like go out on them all the time and it's like I'm so comfortable you're ready to work out yeah and no literally dress clothes you're uncomfortable yes like you just feel like I'm always like dude I'm like overdressed for this do you guys remember when you okay when you worked in the gym do you did you want to wear a suit I remember I wanted to wear a suit well I like the idea of it for sure yeah I made my sales guys when I was a general manager, we did wear slacks and oftentimes button down shirts.

52:31We did. I mean, how funny is that? You walk into a gym, the guy's selling you a membership. I know. Stick out. That was before they were really sticklers about the uniforms, so I would do that sometimes. Well, I remember when Larry and I first started working together, rest in peace, right? When he came in, the first time he came in to work with me, he'd come in and like full... Who do you think made him do that? You know what he used to show up and work in? Jersey. oh wow big old you know shorts and a jersey oh yeah and it was i had to convince him because he was already the top sales oh he definitely embraced it loved it oh he loved it then he came in his you know his armani suit and his like shades and everything i was just like this guy's too much dude but i had this great this great uh reflection i'm in there and i'm kind of grumbling oh i gotta you know do this media stuff which is this is what you text me yeah yeah and i'm like and then i looked up and i'm and i'm like you know i'm looking at the store i'm like man viore is like they're a huge player and i looked up their you know they're valuated at like six billion dollars yeah and i'm like man we were with them when they had this one little store remember that they had one store yeah and here they are now this huge player they're well known as being the super high quality brand and the fact that they are using us to sell their product that's a big deal well did you hear me talking to the girl at the front desk there so her and i were talking and she's like man i haven't seen you and sal on my feed lately and i was like well yeah that's why we're here doing these ads we're due to to do some more of these ads for them or what about that and i'm like and uh she's like yeah i know a lot of people uh know you guys as the viore guys not as mindful and i thought it's so wild but of course i mean it's a it's a multi-billion dollar company i'm a model doug yeah i like you guys that when we did those gifts like i keep showing up at like microsoft meetings yeah like that's stupid like i'm like yeah that's like forever now but you sent that text over to me and you're right you know i'm saying like i i always try and check myself when we we grumble about some of these things it's like such a blessing to that's super cool it's so crazy anyway i gotta say doug is this are we black friday still we're still going on oh yeah absolutely okay look i gotta mention this every maps program and every bundle is 60 % off.

54:46So this is the biggest sale of the year. If I don't say it here in the intro, some people skip where I say that in the very beginning, they'll miss out. So it's 60 % off everything right now. Mapsfitnessproducts.com use the code Black Friday. So this is it. We don't do the sale except for once a year. ButcherBox delivers grass-fed meat, crate-free pork, chicken, wild-caught fish, and more to your door at great prices. You want healthy meat, healthy protein, great prices, go to ButcherBox. Go to ButcherBox.com forward slash Mind Pump. By the way, new users right now get your choice of a whole turkey included in your first box or a ham in your first box.

55:24Or if you want, you can choose ground beef in every box for the lifetime of your subscription included for free. Go to ButcherBox.com forward slash Mind Pump. Back to the show. Our first caller is Eric from Florida. Eric, what's up, dude? What's happening? Hey, how you guys doing? We're good, man. How can we help you? Let me flip over to read my question here. I love you guys so much. I've been listening every day for like four or five years. Oh, that's great, dude. Appreciate it. Justin loves you too. So you guys talk a lot about dysfunctional relationships with fitness and overtraining. I usually don't think it really applies to me because I don't often experience injuries or soreness.

56:07and I do progress about as quick as a natural lifter who's been going for about 20 years can. But you talk about it so often, it does make me wonder if I'm overtraining. I'm 35. I do go to the gym just about every day. It makes my day feel complete. It's like a hangout. Every third day is just doing dead hangs and like an ab exercise or two. I view them as sort of my rest days. The other two are upper and lower splits rotating between many compound lifts and a few isolation movements. I take long rest periods between sets. So I am typically there between 60 and 90 minutes on the big days and 30 to 45 on the ab and dead hang days.

56:52I walk one mile twice a day usually. And I work as a waiter for only about 25, maybe 30 hours a week. I have no kids. I live relatively stress-free. My sleep is not perfect. I do wake up a few times a night, but usually only for a few seconds, and then I fall back asleep. I usually just have to turn over or something. My schedule usually allows me to sleep for eight to ten hours because I work afternoons. I don't typically feel tired or fatigued, but you guys talk about it so much that I've been questioning myself lately and wondering if I could be stronger by doing less. you think I might be overtrained.

57:32Yeah, good question. There's a lot to unpack here. Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions, Eric? Of course. Just to get to the root, because there's a few things here. When you exercise, what's the root or the motivation behind it? uh it's just fun i i just enjoy it i enjoy lifting i enjoy being at the gym i enjoy getting a pump i enjoy just seeing some of the people that I see at the gym most days, like the regulars. And I just, I just enjoy the whole, everything about it. That's great. That's great, man. How do you feel about your, your, yourself, your progress, your body, all that stuff?

58:10How do you feel about that? Uh, my body's fine. I, I could always use, um, a little bit of a cut, but I don't really worry too much about it and i enjoy eating too much to really to worry too much about it i like the muscle i've built over the years i just i don't really care too much about aesthetics at this point i just like being stronger i just like seeing little progression bro i think you're in a great place you're in a pretty good place yeah so so here's what i was getting at that's why i asked you those questions um and then i'll get to the last question here um over training beating yourself up, overdoing it is a symptom.

58:50It's not the root. And it's typically a symptom of a root that drives people towards fitness that comes from self-hate, you know, moving the goalpost, insecurities, you know, whatever, fat, skinny, insecure, hate my body, constantly chasing the look. And so overtraining is a symptom of that, right? It's a result of that. So, which it sounds like you're in a really good place uh the root of why you're doing this is great like your answer if it's fun i like the people that are there i don't really care too much about aesthetics at this point i like being strong if you like that's that sounds awesome it sounds like you're coming from a good place uh so now here's the the the second the answer the second part of i wonder if i could be stronger by doing less the only way you'd know that is by trying it yeah that's it So what you would do is you would say, okay, for the next four weeks, I'm going to reduce my total volume and see what happens to my lifts.

59:52And if they go up, then you're moving in the right direction. If nothing changes, then no harm, no foul. But also, if they do go up, that doesn't mean that's where you stay forever because you could do that for three months with less volume and then slowly inch the volume back up. and then see how you feel. But at the end of the day, Eric, you're doing great. You're doing really, really good. I think you're in a great place. Yeah, you're the type of client that if I got you, I'm really careful about how much I want to rock this boat because I think you're in such a good place. I would love to see you run MAPS Anabolic and just see if we brought it down to three full-body days of lifting, what might you see strength and see if you actually really like that.

1:00:34But I also hear you that this is more than just that for you, Going to the gym, it's community for you. You love it. And I would hate to take, so I definitely wouldn't keep you from going to the gym. I say keep going to the gym every day, but just maybe we'll do, you know, maybe you'll do more of your walking on the treadmill. Maybe do some mobility stuff. Maybe you'll do sauna work or something. I don't know if your gym has that. Maybe we'll do some of those on those other days and then just lift three days a week just to try it and just see if you see a huge difference in strength by reducing the volume a little bit.

1:01:03But I also, I would be very, stay close to you asking you, how are you feeling? do you like this or you're like and if i see that it was really bothering you or you weren't enjoying it and you like then i would abandon ship because it ain't that big of a deal yeah because you're you're very happy with where you're at in your and you don't sound over trained you don't sound like you have terrible motivation and drive to what you're i think you're in a good place but it doesn't hurt to mess with some programming and if you've never followed like one of our programs i bet you'd see some better results than you've ever seen just by having someone who's professionally done this do it for you but that doesn't trump you being happy and they're doing it for the reasons you're doing it so well said well i mean even if even if my program could get you better results uh if you're less happy doing it than what you were doing before i would i'd still tell you you keep doing that i'm okay with that yeah so eric just to put it just to really add to what adam's saying and to put it differently uh if you added uh 20 pounds to your bench press, which would be a lot at this point, right?

1:02:06You've been lifting for 20 years. So if you added 20 pounds at this point, you'd be like pretty amazed, right? If you added 20 pounds to your bench press, but you lost, you know, 20 % of the joy you get from going to the gym and being around people went down. Would that be a worthwhile trade? No. Probably not. Like what's 20 more pounds on your lifts going to do for you besides you being able to tell your friends maybe or whatever, but it's not going to do much for you. but losing 20 % of the joy you're getting from being around those people going to the gym that that could have a profound negative effect so so just to add what adam's saying like it's oftentimes not worth it like what are you gonna get from another 20 30 pounds on on your big lifts probably not much not gonna do much yeah yeah so i think you're doing great dude it'd be cool it'd be cool for you we'll send over i think maps and a block see if you enjoy it yeah I think maps anabolic would be a different enough program than your approach right now and a reduction in volume that it would be fun to see how you like it.

1:03:06But again, you know, if you don't, then you, what you got going on is a great way. You're at a place where we want to get most clients, you know? And so I don't, I don't like rocking that boat too much unless you are down to, you know, let's see what it looks like to run somebody else's program and stick to it and see if you enjoy it. I do have anabolic. I got it like a few years ago, but I've never actually really run it all the way through. I just kind of look at the exercises and sort of do what I normally do anyway, to be honest. It was pretty much what I expected it was going to be, you know.

1:03:44But, yeah, I appreciate it. You're in a good place, bro. bro. You're like at the, what's good about where you're at, Eric, is if you stay focused on the important stuff, which is what you said when I first asked you, you know, why are you doing this? You'll do this forever. Yeah. You'll never want to stop. I can keep experimenting. Yeah, dude. So if we get, we get caught up in chasing quote unquote results and sacrificing the joy, uh, from the journey that is not, I'm gonna tell you, is not a worthwhile trade at all it is actually a terrible trade so just keep that in mind so if you want to try it to have fun uh then do it if you look at it like i don't i like what i'm doing i'm enjoying it's introducing a little bit of novelty just to keep it fresh stimulating that's really like all you should be concerned with going forward whatever you're doing right now is like the hub it's the base of of uh you know what a program should be about yeah you know if you if you saw anabolic and you've had it for two years and you were just like, yeah, it's kind of what I thought it would be.

1:04:50It didn't really excite you. Maybe we send you something that's really unique like an old time strength. Or symmetry? That'll be even the first two weeks of him doing that. Yeah, that's true. You can go insane. I like old time. I think there's very unique exercises in there that are different that you might enjoy the challenge of doing that and to Justin's point about novelty and you like getting strong and that program is built around that. You can even just look at it and try some of the extra stuff. Yeah, yeah. Actually, that's a great approach too. It's like, we'll send it over to you and then you can do what you did with matching a ball.

1:05:21You can piecemeal it, yeah, because there's certain lifts that it's gearing you to get better at the skill towards. So it's cool like that. You can actually take something you're not familiar with and just practice it. Sounds good. Yeah, we'll send that over to you, man. And one last thing, Eric. Our episodes are geared to the majority of our audience, which we're actually trying to get to this place that you're at. So a lot of our information is not for you in that sense. A lot of it is for trying to get people to be where you're at. Where when I ask them, why are you doing this? Like, I love it.

1:05:58It's fun. I enjoy it. I love the people. That's like. That's not a typical answer. That's not common. Yeah, we're trying to get people. It's a good answer. Yeah, bro. You're in the 1 % with the right attitude around it. So great job, dude. We'll send that old time over to you. And if you do try it out, I would love to hear back from you. If you do the same thing as anabolic, then keep doing your thing. But if you do try it out, it's always nice to hear a guy with your experience. By the way, you ever thought about being a coach or a trainer? I know you work in the restaurant industry. It's totally different.

1:06:25You ever thought about it? It's all people. If you like people, you ever thought about it? I'm certified by ISSA, but I've never done it professionally. I do train my mom. I've been training her for about eight months now, and she's dropped like 30 pounds, and she was pre-diabetic, and it's no longer that. Oh, that's awesome. We will start with once a week, and then after a few months, we move to twice a week, and she absolutely loves it now too. I get a lot of enjoyment out of that. I would like to coach. I've just never – I don't know. I'm a little bit shy about going and applying. I don't know why.

1:07:01Well, you like us, Eric? I love you guys. You guys literally every day you have an episode. It's part of my morning walk. We are, we're all, we're hiring coaches all the time and we hire based on character. So, you know, one of the things we say is we don't hire trainers. We make trainers. If you're, if you're, if you think about it and if you're like, Hey, you know, I'd like to give this a shot and you're serious about it. Reach out to us. What's our site, Doug, to apply? Is it Mind Pump Personal Trainers? It's jobs at Mind Pump Media, believe. I'm sorry. I don't recall. You know, we'll remember it and we'll text.

1:07:36Just have him email Kyle directly. There you go. Just go straight to Kyle. Yeah. We'll send you that email. I don't want to put it on here because we'll get 50 million emails. We'll send that over if you're interested. If you're interested in thinking about it. All right? Yeah, absolutely. You got it, man. All right, Eric. Thank you, guys. Have a great day. Take care. All right, dude. Just for people who are listening, if he had said, if I had, when I asked him, why are you doing this? What's the main thing? And he said, you know, I'm too fat. I'm not strong enough. And, you know, I just, my body's not responding.

1:08:08and I'm just trying to get it to get there. I've been doing this for 20 years. I don't feel like it's worth. Then it would have pointed me in a different direction. I would have said, okay, the root of this is not good. And so he may be overtraining because he's doing it for the wrong reasons. But what he said was like, that's great. Like I can tell you right now, if I had to bet money that Eric's probably going to do this in some way, shape or form for the rest of his life. Well, and I want to just, again, point out that even if I had better answers or could get him better results, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing that's right it's not a worthwhile trade right like there's there's no doubt i could take somebody and assess their workout routine their diet even somebody that advanced been doing that long and go like oh i can make tweaks i can show you better results that's right but i don't want to mess with something better results isn't always better that's right that's right if he's doing it for the reasons that he said and he gets fulfillment out of it i i'm not gonna i'm not gonna mess with that i just want to say this too just to toot our own horn you will not hear fitness people on media uh communicating this and that's because in media it's all results all the time which uh there's some value in that but not like that so and this is you know coming from people who've trained a lot of people and he's figured it out yeah our next caller is suzanna from texas hi suzanna how you doing good morning how are you i'm great thanks for calling in how can we help you well should i just read my question yeah that works All right.

1:09:34Your mind pump. I'm female. I'm almost 50. Next month I'll be 50. Five, three, 150 and sitting at about 40 % body fat. I eat 140 grams of protein a day and about, well, right now I'm at 1850 calories a day. and I was attempting to cut and I take creatine every day as well as you know vitamins and things like that. I work out with a personal trainer three times a week consistently for the past seven months since February and before that I did Carolyn Jervon workouts at home for seven months and before that I lifted weights you know on and off. I'm not a stranger to lifting weights but I bit the bullet and got the trainer.

1:10:26I have gained about three and a half pounds of muscle since May, but it's slow. My body fat doesn't seem to budge. He has an in-body machine that he uses to gauge my body composition monthly, and I'm frustrated. I play pickleball, and I don't play pickleball because I'm trying to lose weight or do cardio. I do pickleball because it is my joy. I play about two to three hours, three to five times a week. And I've tried to cut back because I know too much cardio is, you know, can hinder gains, but my hormone panel is normal. I walk my dogs, you know, three, four times a week. It's not a fast walk.

1:11:12I get between 13 to 19 ,000 steps a day. I'm a stay at home mom. I'm perimenopausal and I'm not eligible for HRT yet. Thyroid is normal. I don't know. What can I do to move the needle? Because I'm healthy. My blood work is great. I don't have any problems, but my body fat is my body fat and I'd like it to be less. This answer is actually pretty, this is actually is a pretty easy answer. Easy but hard. Yeah. And by the way, I wouldn't necessarily cut back my pickleball if you're loving it. If you love doing that and you do it for those reasons and you're my client, I'm not messing with that. I am messing with the three times a week strength training, though, on top of that, though.

1:11:56I think reducing that and going in a reverse diet is the answer here. Being that low a calorie of diet, you've stalled right now. And what we need to do is focus just on building muscle right now. And then we'll lean out. So right now it's build muscle. So Susanna, can I, can I be, cause obviously we're just on a call here. Can I be real direct? Yeah. How long have you been listening to us, by the way? I've been listening to you for about a year and four months. Okay, good. You trust us? I do. Okay, good. Okay. I'm going to be really direct. Okay. So I'll ask you a question. I want you to be honest with me.

1:12:30Yeah. Are you a stress machine? Yeah. I mean, I volunteer for the Boy Scouts. I run a very large Boy Scout troop. I have two teenagers. Um, my husband just retired, so I just got him lifting weights. So yeah, we're, we're, we're in the thick of it right now. Maybe not babies and toddlers, but insulin teenagers is, you know, it's trying my life. Yeah. Good. Thank you for telling me all that. By the way, that's a stressful for anybody. It's a lot of stuff. Uh, and, uh, God bless you. Here's why I asked you that question. Here's what I see. Okay. I see you really trying hard, hard and eating very little.

1:13:11and the more you don't see results, the harder you try, the harder you push yourself, the harder you work out, and then you don't see the progress you want, and you do it even harder. Now I'm going to give you some good news. The good news is you've built three and a half pounds of muscle in spite of doing a lot of things wrong, which tells me you are healthy, and it tells me you're going to get great results if you trust us, which is going to go counter to what appears to be your nature, which is when something's not working, I put my head down and I try harder. It's probably part of your nature.

1:13:46Or do more. Yeah. Okay. You're not wrong. That's not going to work here. It's not going to work here. We can't try harder. We have to try smarter. If you push yourself harder, you're going to get worse results. Okay. Okay. So here's what you need to do. I'm just going to repeat what Adam said. You need to increase your calories way too low. you're not going to build muscle any more muscle and help with the fat loss by keeping it at 1850 calories definitely not if we cut lower if you cut lower here's what will happen you'll lose the 3.5 pounds of muscle that you built so you're going to need to go up to about 2050 calories and you're going to need to stop doing the supersets with your strength training blow it down I didn't even see that Yeah, so can I talk to your trainer right now?

1:14:36Will you show this to your trainer? I will. Okay. You know, okay, so. Okay. I love the guy, and he's been working with me, and I'm the one that does everything really slow. I milk every single minute out, and I tell him, I'm like, I'm just going to wait, and then I do the next thing when I'm ready. That's okay. I'm not trying for cardio, and I turned him, I'm not doing this for cardio, and I tell him that. I'm not doing cardio. I'm not going to. Oh, he has you doing the supersets. He's having you do the supersets. Well, it's a format. So it's a company that, and that's the format. Oh, wait, explain this to me.

1:15:12So tell me what this looks like. Is it one-on-one? Is it a group? Explain the workout. So it's a maximum of six people. And it's, he individualizes it. It's three different workouts every week. And it's not, you're not trying to reach the orange zone. I think the majority of the, all of his clients are over 40 for the most part. Most of these people haven't been in the gym in years and years or at all. So for me being me, and I think I'm very different from a lot of their other clients. I know if I just pushed it, I'm going to rest for a minute and a half to two minutes between. And he doesn't.

1:15:54Good job. Good job. Can I ask you to you? I'm listening to what you're saying. But it's nice that it doesn't take a terrible long amount of time. But, you know, if it goes over, it goes over. How long are we committed to this, to the trainer thing? Is it something you prepaid? Did you prepay it? No, I didn't. I didn't prepay. And I did for like three months, but I'm loosey-goosey at this point. Could you take the total, because it's probably a less investment than a one-on-one. It's probably why it's a class setting. So I'm assuming the investment's less. Could you take the total investment that you're currently spending doing three days a week with the group and get a one-on-one trainer once a week?

1:16:45I mean, I have tried that. And I go to the YMCA. I have a membership to the YMCA, which is, you know, the YMCA. yeah it's it's okay i i guess i struggle with like being with somebody for an hour and like chatting it up i i am a very extroverted person but i really like to put my head down and do my workout i don't like a lot of chitter chatter and small talk i hate to break it to you but this type of traditional strength training that's going to give you the best results is going to give you about two or three minutes in between every set yeah two or three minutes In between every set. Minimum.

1:17:27Minimum of that. And we only need to be lifting one to two days a week. I would love to get you under one of our trainers coaching you through this. You don't need to be in the gym lifting that much. Definitely not that fast. Especially we're going to continue with the pickleball, the steps. She's also stepping 13 ,000 to 19 ,000 steps. You're so active. That's the pickleball, by the way. Yeah, yeah. That's the pickleball. Yeah. That's a lot of stuff. So if you did one day a week of traditional strength training, like real traditional, which is going to look like a set rest for two minutes, a set rest for two minutes.

1:18:06Okay. If you did that once a week, kept everything else up, bumped your calories by 200, you would see your body move in the right direction. Yep. We would build muscle right away. And then through the muscle building process and the reverse diet, we would set ourselves up for fat loss. The reason why I feel so stubborn right now is you're making it hard for your body to get rid of stored energy. It's like, and you could cut your calories lower and lower and lower and lower, but it's going to put you in a bad place. No, I don't want to do that. I'll starve. No, it's good that you have that attitude you don't want to do that because that is not the answer.

1:18:40We should be at a place where a cut for you is 2 ,000 calories. I want you to be all, at one point, we'll be up to 2 ,600, 2 ,700 calories. With that much activity, that is totally reasonable. Adam isn't saying anything crazy. At age 50? At 5 '3"? Really? 100%. Listen to me right now. 100%. How many people at age 50 are doing two or three hours, three to five days a week of pickleball and lifting weights three days a week with supersets? Yeah. Your age doesn't... Yeah, maybe not anybody. Nobody. Yeah. Your age is irrelevant to me in that situation. That's right. You're doing so much activity. You're doing more than the average 30-year-old is doing.

1:19:16I was just in Disneyland, and I did 19 ,000 steps in a day. and I went home and had to take Advil. Okay, so that's a lot to do for somebody. Yeah, you're very active, very active, which is awesome. I lifted weights on my Disney World vacation. I got one of my workouts in before I walked here on Epcot. Susanna, Susanna, your go-to move in life is to grind your way through things that will not work here. Okay. It's not going to work. You're fighting your body. if you work with your body you're going to be so by the way your body is resilient yeah for you to do what you're doing and your hormone panel come back fine your thyroid come back fine and you gain three and a half pounds of muscle yeah i i'm very confident that if you did the right stuff if you worked with one of our coaches and went down to one day a week in reverse i'm confident in six months you would come back and say i don't this is what you're going to say i'm going to project i'm going to i'm going to just make a prediction you're gonna be like oh my god i feel like i'm doing nothing my body's responding this is weird strong stronger than i've ever been eating more than i've ever been doing less than i've ever done in a body that i would have never thought i could have had that's the that that's what happens when you do that all those things yeah you know what you should be experiencing right now doing all the stuff you're doing with low calories you shouldn't have built three and a half pounds of muscle you should be in like severe overtrained state so it's pretty resilient to be fair i i was 230 pounds when i gave birth to my son And I gained a lot of weight when I was pregnant because I was, you know, not happy.

1:20:52I lost all that baby weight, you know, in my thirties and it came right off with weight watchers, you know, and a calorie deficit. And, and now that doesn't work anymore. No, but Susanna, were you an athlete when you were younger? No, I was overweight. Oh, well, you know what? In my twenties, I did like triathlons and I tried to cardio my way to keep my weight down. I'm definitely a victim of diet culture yeah but you know what I'm going to give you a little boost here I think you have some really good genetics for you were overweight because of your lifestyle but did you do triathlons first of all to just complete a triathlon that's not everybody can do that and again the fact that you built muscle doing what you're doing this is good news I'm telling you right now this is a really you're actually in a good place the fact that the blood panels come back and you're all healthy and fine and we just need to make some tweaks.

1:21:46Right now, you're working against your body trying to get this result. And yet still seeing some good results, which is crazy. That's what Sal keeps pointing out. It's like, you shouldn't have even gained three and a half pounds of muscle. This is a muscle loss program is what you're on. You are on a muscle loss program. Yes. I actually was doing more weightlifting before I switched to this guy. Because I was listening to your radio and saying three times a week is all you need. And that seemed to be, I guess it's been working for me, but I, I'm yeah. Like you, like I said, the needle isn't the muscles going up, the body fat's kind of stubborn.

1:22:25So I'd really like to, yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to send you, I'm going to, I'm going to have a coach call you guys just say, would you let us coach you through this please? And then let's have you back on in like four months so we could, the gold's on the other side so we could brag. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. Get there, man. Thanks for calling in. Somebody's gonna reach out to you. This will be fun. You got it. thanks a lot bye-bye yeah that's uh yeah obvious yeah totally totally it's great it's i knew when i so shit so here's the thing too this is why it's so important for trainers to ask questions now thankfully we have her email up on the screen uh and i saw the superset so i'm like what kind of a workout is this yeah so like what kind of a workout is this and then of course it comes out it's not it's not personal training it's group training yep yeah and they try to make it more like personal training but it's not it's not it's not really strength no and the fact that she has to tell her coach i'm gonna rest just tells you that he's got him it's like an orange theory type of thing yeah they got him in a circuit so and then she's doing a lot of activity on top of all that so yeah and only eating 1800 calories i mean i mean that for that much activity yep uh is and teenage boys stay at home all that other stuff it is kind of a miracle that she built three and a half pounds of muscle i'm trying to figure out where and how bro i bet you i i'll i bet you she does the right stuff she's going to see crazy strength yeah well it's the most difficult because when she lost all the baby fat yes that like that was her mode of method that's right it worked good point now to come back and hear the opposite is you know these are the the hardest ones to break through i'm i'm even willing to bet too i know she's saying that she rest with it's still i've had short rest periods no dude yeah i'm like making her sit for three minutes because i know that there's no way an eternity you know when it was obvious when she's like i don't like to sit and chitchat like oh you're one of those clients yeah yeah yeah you know i'm wasting my time our next caller is patrick from indiana what's up dude how are you patrick hey guys how are you good how can we help you good uh well uh it's an honor to be on here and thank you for taking the call uh i'm a high school health and pe teacher along with a swim coach and recently i had a former athlete reach out seeking advice on training and nutrition strategies she's now pursuing a high fashion modeling career and sought out guidance to meet specific body standards while maintaining her overall health.

1:24:41She's 5 '11", weighs 121 pounds. She's tall, long-limb, very thin, but does have a strong physique from the swimming background. She's aiming to reduce her hip measurement or the widest circle around her glutes from 35 inches to 34 inches by February to meet runway casting standards. Her current routine includes walking for 45 minutes a day, Pilates for one to one and a half hours, five days a week. And on her self-described better days, her diet consists of high protein breakfast, a medium lunch with carbs and protein, and a low or no carb dinner. Though she admits that inconsistent eating habits affect her overall body composition, and she tends to not eat when she gets stressed or anxious.

1:25:30There's usually a lot of praise from her agents and casting directors, unfortunately, but also advise, or sorry, they also advise her walking and taking Pilates over strength training to avoid a bulky look on the runway. Saying all that, I'm familiar with performance training and training for muscle building, but I'm kind of at a loss to how to help her with her goals of being smaller where I don't think she's got all that much room to get smaller. And then how I can help her with her nutrition and overall health going forward. Yeah. I'd stay away from this. I would stay away from this because your, your advice to get her to where she's trying to aim is on, is going to be unhealthy, not good advice.

1:26:15Right. Right. That's the, that's the problem with this question right now is to get the goal that she's asking or what you're saying right now, the advice would be to put her in a place or to do things that are unhealthy. That's a tough situation. She's 5 '11", 121. And as a teacher, I don't want to get involved in that. What kind of influence do you have with her, Patrick? Have you been coaching her for a long time? Are you like a mentor? You're not going to tell this girl she can't be a runway model. Hold on. Let me see. So what kind of influence do you have over her? How long have you been coaching her?

1:26:47I coached her through her whole high school career. She's now two years out of my directive. And this really started with her mom reaching out. was very concerned of okay industry is telling her okay okay so so it sounds like she's she's asking for that kind of advice from you like help me talk my daughter out of doing this well here's the deal patrick there's and this is why i asked you this question there are very few people that are very influential with uh with kids um sometimes it's coaches oftentimes it's coaches and you've coached her for years in sports. So she probably looks up to you, takes your advice so much so that her parents talk to you.

1:27:32So you have a lot of influence. There is nothing you can say or do that will help her with the physical training diet part. This is all 100 % going to be about the mental psychological part. Okay, so if there's anything you can say to discourage her for modeling and you know better than we do, that's the direction I would go. it's a unhealthy place to be. There is no way to do it healthy. And she's going to be surrounded and living in a world that will value her for her looks. And the looks that they value are unhealthy. Now that would be the conversation I would have with mom. And I would try to discourage her.

1:28:11If that's not, if she's a red light with that, if you're like, yeah, that ain't going to work. Like she's like running full head steam. Then you're going to talk to her about the mental aspect. And you're going to say things like, look, exercise is good. Eating is good. here's the things that you need to focus on. Your value is not all about your looks. They are going to try to push you to do unhealthy things. And you really need to consider if the trade is worth it. Even if you became famous, would it be worth the sacrifice in your health? And so these are the conversations. If you have that kind of influence that I would have with her.

1:28:45And then when she's doing something really, really unhealthy, then I would point that out. I'll say, yeah, that's not really good for you. That's not a good idea. I think you need to eat more and maybe try to point to your energy and stuff like that. But that's the only direction you can go. There is nothing you can tell her exercise and diet-wise based on her goals. And you wouldn't want to. You wouldn't want to be liable for that. You don't want to be liable for the guy who tells her, you know, skip more meals. And her agent's going to tell her all kinds of terrible crap. Yeah. Yeah, that's a tough spot, bro.

1:29:14And our last conversation was that I did want to reach out to you guys and see what you thought and you're echoing what my thought to her was because she started this kind of the end of her high school career and she assured us and she and I don't know what she was telling her her agents and whatnot but it was performance driven and she has a natural air about her. But with the kind of getting more serious about it, I have seen her kind of move into that space and have expressed those concerns to her as well. She's a kid, dude. But look, I'll tell you something right now. You put an adult, a full on adult in that space, good luck.

1:30:00She's a kid, so she doesn't even know. She has no idea. She may assure you, assure mom, no, no, I'm going to do whatever. But now you're living in this world where everything that gets praised is terrible and they discourage you from anything that's healthy. And then it's all about your appearance. Like nobody survives that dude, nobody. So the conversations would be very, very carefully orchestrated to try to discourage her from going to that space or at the very least recognizing when her agent is saying things that are not good. Right. Carry on that. Yeah. But I mean, advice, eat more, lift weights, don't do so much cardio.

1:30:37Like all the stuff that's going to make her agent go, ah, you're too big. Yeah, they're going to hate that. Yeah, so it's like - That's what makes it so difficult here is the goal directly conflicts with what doing healthy is for her. Like it's just, for her at 5 '11", 120, probably the healthiest thing she should do is put some weight on. That's right. Put some weight on, build some muscle. Get strong, be an athlete. And obviously that's the opposite of what she's asking. Does she, like, is this a trade from athletics? because she sounded like she was competitive. Was that a passion of hers as well?

1:31:12Absolutely. And she was a high-level performer with us. Maybe the conversation is like, hey, athletics? Sports so much better. Athletics is way more worth it than modeling. Way more worth it. Maybe that's the conversation. It's like, I'm your coach. For so many reasons. I've been with you for years. You're gifted. I think modeling's fine but I think you need to go into sports like I think you'll be giving something up that one day you're going to regret this is way better maybe that's the conversation I try and sell her that way that to me would be the closest way to sell it let's build some muscle, let's make you strong, let's keep you competitive, maybe that's the conversation and hey if they like you for where you look, where you're at then fine, take a modeling contract, if they don't then piss off and by the way there's more there's more potential business opportunities in new media which would probably reward an athletic look more than a model look anyway it's marketable so maybe that's what it is hey maybe you could build social media while being an athlete so you don't have to be unhealthy not saying new media is all healthy but you know at least you can move towards athleticism yeah well absolutely yeah sorry dude yeah i feel like i feel like i feel like we i feel like we failed you right now dude but this is such a hard hard one to to handle so i mean no i you told me what I needed to hear and kind of what she needs to hear as well.

1:32:34So I definitely appreciate that. Would it help if you came back on with her and we talked to her? I could reach out. All right. Do that. And if she says yes, get back on here and we'll talk to her. All right, dude. All right, Patrick. Thank you, man. Thank you, guys. You got it. As soon as he started, I was like, oh, yeah, run. You do not want to be in this. That's why I asked what I asked. That was a great question because obviously it sounds like the mom is reaching out and he's coached her for like she sounds concerned at least you know coaches when they work with you know you know this justin you know us too adam you guys were both like like she's like probably looks up to him and the fact that mom talks to him he's probably a mentor to her so he's got some influence but this is listen there was a point i don't really talk about much it's a hard place but at one point i got into the pageant space i actually trained i'm not gonna say too much i'm gonna call her out but i trained a top level pageant competitor and she won a big contest and suddenly I had all these moms bring me their teenage daughters to train them for this whole pageant world and within like and within for five seconds I considered I said no I'm not stepping into this crazy dysfunctional space there's no way to do this in a healthy way and they'll totally they won't want to do what I have decided no it's crazy our next caller is Jessica from Florida Jessica what's happening hi there thanks for having me how can we help you Okay, great.

1:33:57I'm just going to jump right into my email. So my name is Jessica. I'm 5 '1", 35-year-old mom of one. I'm a former group class addict, and I recently completed a year-long bulk. I really enjoy your podcast, especially the women-focused training episodes and tips that you sprinkle throughout, and I would love your advice on where to go next. So for backstory, I dedicated 14 months on a bulk cycle going from body weight of 118 pounds to 132 pounds. And I focused purely on strength gains and learning new major lifts. So for reference, before this, I had never touched a barbell before. Super intimidating.

1:34:41And I went from dumbbell pressing 35s to barbell bench pressing 135 over multiple sets. I went from 80 pound dumbbell squat to 185 pound barbell back squat over multiple sets. And I can also jump up and give you 12 unbroken pull-ups among other fun stuff. 12 full pull-ups? Wow. Yeah, unbroken. Let her finish. Let her finish. Wow. Keep going. Keep going. Okay, sorry. No, no, keep going. I was just blown away. This is awesome. Keep going. Yeah, I'm super excited too. And if you can't tell, my face is super proud of myself, which is a big deal. And kudos to you guys. It's because I listen to your podcast.

1:35:22It's because I decided, why not try these major lifts? So thank you. And as someone who went to a former all-female gym, and then I switched to this tiny bro weight room, just taking up space, it was a huge confidence boost because I listened to you and tried these new lifts. But there is a hitch. That's why I'm calling. um so during cutting um I realized I didn't have to cut nearly as much to see muscle definition again which was good so I went from 132 pounds to 125 pounds and that's when I started to see definition but when I got there I oddly felt um like disappointed I felt like I more or less looked the same but now I can maintain this look at a heavier scale weight and I can eat more food which is fun.

1:36:09So my three questions are, the first one is, what can I hope to achieve doing another year long bulk, which I'm currently in? And can I hope to achieve more muscle mass, specifically my upper body? Or does it drop off each cycle? I'm not sure how that works. And then lastly, probably my most important question is, is it possible to get noticeable changes in my appearance by just focusing on major lifts, like adding the overhead press, the dead left the road that you guys talk about nearly every podcast can i drop all other isolated work and just focus on the major lifts and just for reference adam i believe that you had mentioned in previous episode the great eight program and kind of toying with that idea and that's the day i decided to write in and ask for help can we just give you applause like great you are kicking butt yeah you are crushing and my favorite part of all of this you have abs too yeah but first of all you look phenomenal yeah i i the the besides the fact that you could bench press 135 pounds to do 12 pull up by the way i hope you realize that puts you yeah in a elite category for strength for females yeah do you realize that right in such a short time there are very few women that you'll ever run into who could do what you do already with your lips.

1:37:30Two clients. That's about it. It's also a testament to how good of a job you did. A lot of people can't stay in a reverse diet in a bulk like that for that long and allow the weight on the scale to go up that much without freaking them out and going the other way. So the fact that you psychologically pushed through that process while doing this is just a win all the way around. And you absolutely can do this for another year and absolutely will continue to see great results. Now, you're probably not going to double the strength like you did last. I mean, you won't see asthma. You're not going to go up to 270 on the bench.

1:38:04Yeah. Okay. Your gains will slow up a bit, but the things that you're reporting, eating more, feeling strong, all that stuff is going to continue. My favorite part of all of this is that you went into a cut and you're like, this sucks. I think I'm going to keep going in the other direction. Were you a gymnast when you were a kid or anything like that? I wasn't. It wasn't until I had my daughter who's five now after that I decided to really take my fitness into my own hands. And I went to an all-female gym and after a while it wasn't for me and listened to you guys and I wanted to lift really heavy stuff.

1:38:42So I can see what brings you joy. So I have a program for you that I think you'll love. I think you'll love MAPS Powerlift. Oh yeah. I think I can see that. Powerlift. Yes. You like to be strong. And I'm going to tell you, you do this for a year. You have another two years of crazy gains coming. You've got a good three. The first three years of lifting is when you get the most gains. The first year is the most most. It starts to slow down. But you've got two more years of some really good gains coming up. Now we've just got to put you on good programming. And Mavs Powerlift, I think you're going to love.

1:39:17And I think you're going to see great results. Did you retarget it? Did you report to us how high you got your calories? Where were your calories before and where are you at now? Yeah, great question. I figured you'd ask. So when I was 118, I was about 1 ,450 calories with 120 grams of protein. And then towards the end, towards the fun, you know, brownie stage where like food really is fuel. And I was really trying to pack it in. It was probably close to 2 ,500, 2 ,600. And I had had enough food. All right. Keep going. Yeah. Keep going. You're in a great place. Yeah. I think you're going to, by the way, after power lift, if you enjoy it, I would, if you like to compete, I think in your weight category, I think you would demolish natural women in a lot of his lifts.

1:39:59Yeah. Really? Yeah. I had, I did not anticipate you guys seeing this as well. You'd be such a fun client to train. No, if you're benching 135 pounds. Yeah. First of all, I don't think, I don't know if I've ever had a female client that could bench 135. I've only had a few. I've had a few. That's a lot. Not very many. That's a lot. And they definitely weren't. Especially for a tiny girl. They weren't your size. that's for sure yeah so most women that can bench press 135 are carrying a lot more weight on them than that and have been lifting for a lot longer so no let's go let's go mass power lift go in a bulk and have a blast go go get strong just do it i want you to know too though you are also at a place uh so good right now and if you find yourself overstuffing yourself to try and hit calories all the time you don't need to do that you can just okay eat to satisfied and you kind of hover around this maintenance place you don't always have to be in this like aggressive bulk you can kind of just hover like where you feel full where you feel satisfied where you have where you have flexibility where you get to have a glass of wine every once in a while or have a brownie every once in a while and you feel okay but not like you're having to like force feed yourself to get up there you're at a really good place so keep that in mind too we don't if i if i was coaching you So, yes, I would go on the ball.

1:41:12I feel like I'm sick to my stomach. I'm eating too much. I'm not like, still, eat more, get up earlier, or get in the middle of the night. I'm not trying to do that to you. I mean, you're at a good – sounds like you're at a place of calories where it's very sustainable for you for a very long time, and now it's more about finding a very sustainable, good place because you will, for the next two years, still continue to see results. You don't have to be aggressive about it. You could just cruise and be at a good place and change the programming up a little. that alone following like a structured program that we wrote for you that's different than what you're doing right now will already start to give you some nice change just that and eating where you're at maintenance or satisfied that'll do that'll do it okay awesome that's that's so awesome i was so afraid that um bulking wouldn't get me more gains but it sounds like i should just keep going yeah dude this is gonna be crazy that's awesome you know what i want to do can i have you back on after you've if you complete maps powerlift i'd like to just find out uh i'm kind of like curious to see where we're going to go.

1:42:11I know. Yeah. I would love to be back. All right. We'll have you back on. Yep. For sure. We'll send you a power lift. One more thing, Jessica, how do you find the culture in the hardcore gym? How's the culture in there? Just to, just so other women can hear a little bit of it. Cause it's so intimidating. Yes, it is really intimidating. And it took me a long time, especially when I had like baby weights on the bar and I was trying to get it, you know, straight took me like a month. Um, super welcoming, super encouraging. I'd never have to ask for a spotter when I put those 45 plates on, you know, the big wheels on immediately retired, you know, former military men would come and be like, Hey, I'm going to spot you just so you feel good.

1:42:47You can push like, they're so encouraging. And now we like fist bump every time I miss a day. They're like, Hey, where were you? We missed you. So I want to keep going. And I love that community and being strong and encouraged to that community. That's so wonderful. Jessica, I'm going to have Doug also, So if you're not already, put you in our private forum. Yeah, let's get you in there. All of our trainers and coaches are in there. So as you're going through this process, if you have questions about the program or maybe stuff nutritionally or you just post inside the forum. And I'd also like you just to encourage some of the women in there for some of the stuff.

1:43:18Yes, because you have such a great story. That's why I want you in there. Get in there and communicate and share with everybody in there. And I can't wait to watch you go through this. Awesome. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. Got it. All right, Jessica. Thanks for calling in. Bye. What a badass. I just want women to hear that is what's possible she went for building, she went for strength, the result of that I hope we post the pictures did she say 14 or 1800 calories she started at 1450 worked up to 2500 by the way, here's why I want that picture to be posted because a lot of women will chase the look and not do what she did and not get the look The reason why she got the look is she chased strength and fed the muscle, which is why she looked the way she did.

1:44:08Strength, feeding the strength, leads to the look women want. Chasing the look often results in behaviors that don't get you, the look, and put you in a bad place. So super cool. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

1:44:51With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.