2744: How to Track Macros the Right Way (According to Pros)

In short

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - Episode 2744 Summary

Episode Overview In this episode of Mind Pump, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews discuss the intricacies of tracking macros and share insights from their personal experiences. The episode features listener coaching calls that dive into various fitness and health topics, highlighting the importance of proper nutrition, resistance training, and mental health in fitness endeavors.

Episode Highlights

Mind Pump Fit Tip: The Do's and Don'ts of Macro Tracking (2:00)
Importance of understanding macros (proteins, fats, carbohydrates) in diet.
Benefits of tracking macros for achieving fitness goals.
Discussion on who should track macros and who might not benefit from it.

Understanding Study Limitations (22:10)
Discussion on the importance of comprehending all factors in a study.
Example of a study where increased calories led to fat gain due to overtraining in athletes.

Listener Coaching Calls
Call #1: Inquiry about the best program to add an inch to arms.
Suggested programs include MAPS Anabolic and MAPS Aesthetic.
Call #2: Seeking help to get the body to respond after a decrease in activity level.
Call #3: A story of personal redemption following a near-death experience and the importance of trusting the process after years of extreme living.

Discussion on Reverse Dieting (53:47)
The concept of reverse dieting as a method to gradually increase caloric intake after a dieting phase.
Importance of mental health and relationship with food during dieting.

Cultural and Ethical Discussions (56:13)
Conversation around the ethical implications of assisted suicide and moral considerations in society.
Insights into how personal values shape dietary and fitness choices.

Key Concepts and Takeaways

Macro Tracking:
Effective tool for increasing awareness around dietary intake and achieving body composition goals. However, it can lead to stress if taken to extremes.

Caloric Intake:
Eating too little can hinder progress and overall well-being. Reverse dieting can help readjust metabolism and dietary habits.

Mental Health:
The significance of a healthy relationship with food and understanding the psychological aspects of dieting and body image.

Coaching and Accountability:
The value of having a coach to help navigate fitness journeys, especially when dealing with complex emotions around food and weight.

Ethical Considerations:
The conversation around personal choices in nutrition and lifestyle should consider broader societal implications, including moral ethics surrounding health care decisions.

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, callers called in, and we coach them on air live with their health and fitness. By the way, we start this episode with an intro. Today, it was 61 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about fitness and fat loss, macro, tracking and counting, current events, family life. It's always a good time. if you want to be on an episode like this one submit your question to mplivecaller.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors the first one is caldera lab today we talked about their beard oil but they also have incredible skincare products go check them out get 20 off go to caldera lab.com that's c-a-l-d-e-r-a-l-a-b.com forward slash mind pump use the code mind pump 20 get 20 off this episode is also brought to you by viore Viori, great athleisure wear.

1:02It feels comfortable. It looks good. Lasts a long time. It's one of the best athleisure wear companies in the world. Our link gets you a massive discount, 20 % off. Go to VioriClothing.com forward slash Mind Pump. That's V-U-O-R-I Clothing.com forward slash Mind Pump. Also, this is the last day essentially to take advantage of our reverse dieting strategy coaching call. If you go to ReverseDietCall.com, you can get set up with a Mind Pump coach. who will set you up with a 90-day customized reverse diet plan. It's also half off. $49, you get a 90-day customized reverse diet plan. It's the last day for that.

1:41Go to reversediet.com. Sorry, reversedietcall.com. All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com? I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. tracking your macros proteins fats carbohydrates it can be a total game changer in the positive and in some cases in the negative we're going to talk about macro tracking the do's and the don'ts who it's good for who it's bad for let's get into it are you allowed to talk about this yeah why you don't track macros i'm definitely not qualified i just say uh i have obviously we know who's tracked the most but i'm curious out of the two of you who's tracked the least just that's easy you think so just has never have you have you never tracked justin i've checked i tracked protein i mean that counts oh but you've never macros if there's not macros in general like you've tracked a macro i've tracked the macro in a meal it happened he looked at the label really you so you've never i thought you did when you know i do my clients but you know when you when you got when you got all lean and ripped when we first started this you didn't you weren't really tracking macros easy easy with the lean and ripped come on screw you man yeah you got super sexy yeah no i i just um it was mainly just protein and then uh i mean i would manipulate my carbohydrates and everything but that was just kind of just i i don't know it wasn't like super so you really didn't track like you've never downloaded fat secret or my fitness pal and logged food for For myself?

3:21Yeah. Not really. Wow. You? Yes, of course. Now, Justin was an athlete, so a lot of his was performance-based. So it didn't matter. Calories, though, for sure. This is actually a good discussion because macro tracking is, I think, more valuable when you're looking for aesthetic changes, especially when the aesthetic changes start to get more granular. Then it really makes a big difference, right? You know, so like going from, if you're a guy going from 20 % body fat to 15 or 16 % body fat, like you don't really need to track macros. Going from 15 to 9, it probably is going to make a big difference.

3:59And I did, the first time I ever tracked macros was way back in the day. 1997. Calorie King, Calorie King books. Oh no, this was even before that. I used Scale and Apex. I don't know if you guys, did you ever, was Apex even a thing? I thought calorieking.com was still earlier. You had one of those calorieking books. No, I had the calorieking book. The book. I think I had a book, but there was no internet. Well, yeah. So calorieking was a book first, then calorieking.com came later. Yeah, that's right. And so I had the book to start with, which that was as far back as I went where I was writing it on paper.

4:33But macro tracking allows you, the reason why this can be so valuable is, and there's so many studies on this, but this is also just based on our experience. the over underestimate of what you think you're eating is silly. It's just dumb. It's, it's even for those of us who know, uh, or pretty well versed on what food, uh, you know, in terms of calories and macros in food, I mean, this is what we did for a living. I could, I could still be off significantly, you know, 10 to 20%, which is, you know, hundreds of calories, which is the difference between moving the needle one way or another, let alone the average person who's, you know, never tracked before, never coached lots of people.

5:14So tracking can really be an effective tool for bringing awareness around where you think you're at versus where you are actually at. I mean, I think for my clients, unless you had a condition, right? So there's asterisk here. if you have obviously someone's anorexia you know history of anorexia or a really bad relationship with food everybody else it was it was mandatory we did it for a period of time i just think that for educational purposes sure i've never met anybody who says they don't track calories or ever have tracked calories but they have a good idea of what they eat yeah just they're always I'm off always.

5:59I mean, as long as I've been doing this, and even right now, it's been a long time since I've probably tracked. It's been at least a year, probably more. I think I have an idea around that. And if you challenge me, like, you know, give me the number where you're at right now. And I had to probably sit down and go in my head. I'd give you something. But I can almost guarantee you that I'm off. You'll get generally close, which means you're probably off by 20%, which is enough to not - I mean, at least that. That's right. Because I'm off 20 % of what I'm guesstimating, but it's just like then food labels and error and all that stuff.

6:33And, oh, what did I not account for? Because there's the other thing, too, is like when you're guessing or whatever like that, not only are you not measuring portion size, but you tend to also forget like, oh, that's right, I forgot. When I gave my son that popcorn, I took a couple handfuls of that, too. And it's like, oh, that's right. I had that little mini-sized Snickers bar when I went. Or even when you're cooking, that looks like a tablespoon of olive oil. Yeah. Yeah. So the value of becoming one of that, especially in preparation for a calorie reduction and a cut, less important on a reverse diet.

7:09You know, I'm going to give you a little pushback with that. Okay. Yeah, because I think tracking in a bulk, let's just say, can be equally important because what some people will do in a bulk is they just eat a lot more. This will happen to the guy typically who just wants to gain muscle. And so they're like, I'm just going to eat a lot more. And you don't need a lot more to build muscle. You don't need an extra 1 ,000 calories above your maintenance to build muscle. Yeah, but that guy is eating a bunch of processed junk to get there. So if you tell a client who needs a reverse diet or bulk, hit your protein intake, eat when you're hungry, have as much as you want as long as it's whole foods, you know what's interesting about what you're saying because that was my strategy with most of my clients is that will put you in a cut or a bulk depending on uh depending on where your body needs to go is what i found so that's an effective way to lose body fat too for the person who's overeating um it's great to build muscle for the person that's under eating because you start to your body signals start to be a little bit more accurate and hitting protein is the one thing that makes the biggest difference with that.

8:22Because of course, if you just listen to your body, some people will under eat or overeat just based off that. So it's interesting because I've done that with getting people to build. I've done that with people who need to lose weight too. So I think it works well for both. But the awareness piece with macro counting I think is really important. I also think it's really important when you're starting to get away from what would be considered generally healthy body fat percentages. In other words, if you're a woman and you're healthy and fit, you're probably in the low 20s of body fat percentage.

8:54There's a range, right? It's like between 20 to, let's say, 24 % probably, give or take. For men, you're probably, you know, north or south, 15 % by a few percent, right? So it could be as low as 12, maybe as high as 17 if you're fit and healthy. If you want to move typically lower than that, that's when macro counting starts to become important because your body kind of fights you. Like most guys, their natural healthy eating isn't going to make them 9 % body fat or 8 % body fat. And most women, their natural healthy way of eating isn't going to get them at 17%. Well, your body will recognize that it's catabolic for an extended period of time.

9:36That's right. And it will send signals that we need to eat more. Up your appetite. And you have to learn to become somewhat comfortable with that. That's right. is that you know like maybe one day not a big deal but you uh you're catabolic for two three days in a row the body starts going hey that's right we need we need more calories you know and so and and uh you know and now there are people listening might be like well i know these athletes or i know this professional something that's you know they don't watch anything they're shredded there's always these crazy examples but average person average man give or take will be somewhere around 15%, you know, either 12 to let's say 17, fit and healthy, eating protein, sticking to whole natural foods, exercising properly.

10:19And women will be somewhere in the low 20s, which is great, by the way. Most people are happy here. You go below that though, and back to what you're saying, Adam, your body starts to push back a little bit. And it's just not, it's just not going to, your appetite will, if you start listening to your body and trying to be healthy, getting too lean, your body will make you eat more. Yeah. And macro counting becomes, and if you get lower than that, well, yeah, now you definitely, you'll try to get down to. You dream about food. Yeah, try to get down to 7%. Sub six, you're dreaming about food. Oh, yeah.

10:50You think about food all day. Yeah, you have to track because your body's yelling at you. Yeah, yeah. And the same is true for, you know, women starting to get below maybe like 18, 17%. And to your point, there's, I mean, there's always somebody who's, I'm not like that. There's always anomalies. There's people that can build muscle when they look at weights, that eat crappy food and their body powers through it. And there are terrible examples to look to for advice for the average person. The average person is not like that. The average person has to work really hard to build muscle. It's very slow.

11:25It takes a lot of consistency. The average person, it's very difficult to eat in a calorie deficit consistently. even when they do it takes a long time for the body fat percentage to come off takes lots of consistency but we all want to point to the girlfriend or the buddy or the one person who's just like well he does that yeah it's like yeah he's you know there's also people like elon musk and steve jobs you know i'm saying like i don't care how many books you read you know i'm saying you're just not going to be that smart you know it's not and back to the like reverse diet bulk you know tracking can be important with that too with the person who's so afraid of gaining body fat right oftentimes a reverse diet which is also a bulk we just don't call it a bulk with a reverse diet because that'll scare away everybody who needs the reverse diet but really you're eating in a surplus right uh and the value of that we've talked about many times on the show but in a nutshell why would you do this if you want to lose body fat build muscle speed up your metabolism set up the fat loss to be more sustainable later right that's in a nutshell but the people were afraid, like really afraid of gaining weight.

12:29And you're telling them like, no, no, we need to eat more food and more calories while strength training. And they're like, I don't want to gain any weight. And then you finally convince them to reverse diet, not having them track what it's going to look like for them is maintenance deficit, maintenance deficit, because they're so scared that they're just like, ah, this is too much food. So with that person, I'm like, no, no, we have to track because when you feel like you've eaten enough, you're so used to eating so little that you're still eating too little. And so now we know we need to increase because you're looking at your macros and you're going, okay, I need to eat another 200 calories, even though I think I'm eating a lot because normally it's a little.

13:06For the anti-tracking people, that's the real value is not that you should or you need to track for the rest of your life. It's really just more the awareness thing. Yes. Because we all have patterns and behaviors around nutrition, some that we're aware of and some that we're not that's right and when you track for a good 30 days or so a lot of those surface and then you you become aware of it and so it's like oh i didn't realize that on those days when i get really busy i end up like oh okay i'm i don't get i don't get breakfast and then all of a sudden i'm behind x amount of grams of protein and then that rolls into a day where i sleep in and then i'm really behind it's like yeah i thought i was making all these attempts to do that i didn't know that or oh wow i didn't realize how often i walk past that you know you know bowl of nuts that i grab a handful and grab a few yeah they're just that was always the surprising one i think for a lot of clients of mine was the uh the fat tracking and like where that was sneaking in with the oils and the nuts and stuff like that because it gets so high calorie wise uh and you know it just kind of sneaks in so once you start adjusting that especially if they're on a deficit.

14:14I think one of the best values of macro tracking is also figuring out your natural, you know, basal metabolic rate, or maybe for lack of a better term, just how many calories you're probably burning on a regular basis. Yeah. Here's your basis. Yeah. Because, uh, all those calculators and, you know, estimates, they're just not accurate. Um, there's such a big difference between person to person, which, you know, metabolic adaptation and hormones and lifestyle and maybe how you've done it before can affect all this stuff. but for somebody who's like how many calories am i like burning on a normal regular basis well if you track for three weeks without trying to eat more or less you just tracked and let's say over that three week period not gaining or losing weight right so you're just kind of staying the same whether you're overweight or not you're just tracking you have a good general idea of how many calories you burn now on a regular basis yeah so you add it up and average it out and you're like wow, on a typical day, I'm eating 2 ,200 calories with my normal life.

15:12That's how many calories I'm burning because I didn't gain or lose weight. That's where I'm at. So if I want to lose weight, I got to go below it. If I want to gain weight, I got to go above it or build muscle, go above it. Or, oh my goodness, I'm consuming so little. It looks like I'm burning. I was doing all this activity. I'm eating so little. I need a reverse diet. It'll give you a good idea of what your body is doing on its own uh and that's really in my experience the only way you can really do it uh the calculators are are not great they'll give you this general idea the best part about the calculators is that i find i mean we have a really nice macro calculator online that's free that i thought for that doug by the way so people are gonna look for it is it macro track macro calculator maps let me look it up okay um but my point is i i do get a lot of people who are like I just have no idea where to start.

16:03Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so they're like - You're right. And so it'll give you a good place to start, but it's not the answer. And that's what I'm always coaching to. What's it? Mapsmacro.com. Yeah, so it gives you a little, it's a calculator. Yeah, so if you're like, I don't even, I've never tracked. I have no idea what I should start at. Then it's like, there's two ways you can go about this. One, if you don't want to do the macro calculator, which is what I would tell clients a lot of time is, I actually want you to eat normal. Now, when I'm, so if I'm coaching someone, that's actually what I want.

16:36So if I'm, if you're doing this on your own, I think macro calculators can be healthy to health, health, uh, helpful to have a starting point to try and figure out if you have a coach, I personally tell my clients, uh, I want you to eat the same shitty food that you eat the week before you hired me. Like I want to see you keep eating normal. Yeah. Yeah. If that meant a Snickers bar at noon, eat it. If that meant you go climb in the freezer at 10 o 'clock at night, do it. And they're always looking at me all sideways. That's not what I'm paying you for. I just got to know what you're doing. You're here to change.

17:06Yeah, but I want to see your behaviors. I want to see your behaviors and habits because what I know is I can write based off of your height and weight and your goals and your steps. I can write. I can do what the macro calculator can do manually and write out and then ask you some questions about foods and write out this beautiful little plan. But if I find out later that this beautiful plan that I laid out is so astronomically different than what you just did the week before. I am setting that client up for failure. That's right. I'm far better off having them eat the way it is with their crazy 700 calorie Starbucks and this and that.

17:43And it's not because I'm going to let them continue to just do that way forever. But then I'll methodically change little things at a time so it's not this huge like, I went from eating out twice, my Starbucks drink, my ice cream at night, and then now he's got me on tuna fish and crackers and turkey, ground turkey. Even if they have the best discipline in the world, they're not going to sustain that forever. I need to teach that person how to make small changes. It's drastic. And by the way. Small changes produce results. Exactly. What's so awesome about this is you make a couple good macro changes in a diet that's really shitty like that, and you can start building muscle, start burning body fat right away.

18:28Yeah. And they could still have a lot of what other people might think is, that's not a good food or that shouldn't be in the diet. Well, yeah, but they were so under-proteined and so over-saturated fat, all I had to do was switch that one meal that was so overly saturated on fat and no protein to a high-protein, good-fat type of meal. And now their protein just went up by 40 grams a day, which was almost double from where they were. And I've lowered their saturated fat. Now this person's all of a sudden getting it. Or bumped their fiber. Or bump fire and the fiber. So there's like, so, you know.

19:03Yeah, 100%. I think it's super good advice. And here's the other end of this spectrum, which is you don't want to count macros forever. And so there are people that get trapped in this. We see a lot of, we hear a lot of them when they call in, where they do this macro tracking, and then this is just how they live. And then it becomes a trap. And it's a stressful trap. It is a control. It is a way of controlling things, and it causes lots of stress, and it's a dysfunctional relationship with food as well. And so macro tracking is good if it's a step towards a life that is not stressful around food.

19:48It's great as an awareness tool. and you can use tracking throughout your life when you feel like you need more awareness or when your goals change a little bit and you can kind of see where you're at, where you need to go, but you definitely don't want to live here for sure. Or what you don't want to do is worship the macro so much that you find a way to squeeze every terrible food into your macro targets. This was a thing. And you don't hear too many people talking about this anymore. I think it fell out of favor but it was uh if it fit your macros was a popular thing you know 10 years ago where people were like well here's my macros and if it fits in my macros it's all good and they would do crazy things uh just so that they could eat you know garbage uh because it fit in the macros loop pizzas didn't it didn't matter if it was candy well i love how you you uh you use this the analogy of like why would you do that it's like putting this whole process on hard mode oh yeah like you think it's you think psychologically it's better or easier because you get to introduce these foods that are hyper palatable and you like they just made you hungrier and yeah everything make you crave more of them it's like it's such a terrible strategy it's why i mean those that have been listening to the show long enough why we we came out so hard on if it fits your macros not because the science doesn't make sense and if you don't if you follow it scientifically it doesn't work of course it does and bodybuilders do this you know i'm saying that's uh all the time they use if it fits your macros but the average client um introducing uh in fact i did a reaction video to a you know a cheat meal it's like i hate that uh that term you know it implies you're doing something bad and it exacerbates this bad bad you need to escape your life yeah good bad good bad relationship like no it's a it's a good burger and fries you know i'm saying it's a lot of calories you know what i'm saying take account for it and so it's not a cheat you're not cheating on yourself or cheating on this thing it's like it it adds this element uh to to the relationship with food that is unhealthy and not going to serve you you're far better off trying to avoid those types of foods as much as possible because it actually makes adherence easier and the idea of introducing them back in every week over your cheat day uh makes that far more difficult cravings go up quite Yeah.

22:10Along the lines of studies and science and diet. I'm going to bring up a study for you guys, because I think it's another good study that illustrates why it's important to understand all of the factors in a study and to not necessarily take what the study says as gospel. Okay. So I'll read you the study. I know you guys are going to see it right away, but I'll read it just for people listening right now. So this was a study on bulking. And so what they did is they took two groups of people and one group, and they were athletes. So these were athletes who were practicing plus working out or lifting weights.

22:54And they gave one group 500 additional calories in their diet. And here's what they found at the end of the study, at the end of the 10-week study, the group that ate the extra 500 calories only gained body fat. And so the study says, hey, extra calories aren't going to, 500 extra calories a day is too much. That's just going to result in fat gain. Now, let me tell you a little bit about the participants. Yeah, tell me about the athletes. How long have they been playing their sport for? It's also this, guys. Just, okay. Both groups continued their habitual training. You ready for what it was? Yeah, yeah.

23:34Four strength workouts a week and 17 hours of sports-specific training per week. 17 hours and four workouts. 17 hours of sports-specific training per week and four strength training sessions. Yeah. So here's the deal. Eating extra. Who's the asshole program? I don't know. I don't know. Fire that, coach. Extra calories aren't going to go to muscle unless the signal is appropriate. Right. These athletes are overtrained. Yeah. Way overtrained. Overtrained. They're beating the crap out of them. They're not in muscle building mode. No. Of course you're going to gain more body fat. Now, here's the other thing I would like to see.

24:13And it did say that nothing really improved much. But I'd like to see well-being and sleep and hormone profile if we saw an improvement. It might have, although making up for overtraining with calories, although some people would say that's a great strategy, it is a little bit. It's not going to fix the rest of it. It's not going to fix. I'll make a prediction or a, okay, 17 hours of their sport is what you said? Yeah. And four hours of strength training? Okay, take that client. That's a part-time job. I broke. Take those same people, cut their sport to a quarter or a half, Okay. Half. And their strength training down to one to two days a week.

24:56Add those 500 calories. Watch what happens. So way less activity. Okay. But a more appropriate strength building signal and a more appropriate amount of endurance and stamina training. And I bet you those calories go to good use. I bet you if you didn't, you recover. I bet you didn't even bump calories. You just cut all that stuff. You'd see it getting in strength and muscle without even having to add calories. Yeah. So it all. You're just surviving at this point on those calories. Yeah, look, okay, it's like taking two people that do nothing and this person eating more, we're going to build muscle now.

25:26No, you're just going to gain body fat. There is no appropriate signal. Well, you need more energy. You're telling your body, I need as much energy as possible. Let's store it because I'm going crazy right now. That's right. That's right. So, yeah, so, you know, studies like that, because then the author's like, you don't need that many extra calories to build muscle and this kind of thing. Well, that was a lot of training, bro. I don't care how many calories. That was a lot of training, dude. Well, let's be honest. I don't care how little or more of calories you gave those people. They're probably not going to build muscle.

25:55No. 17 hours of sport training in a week. I mean, that's crazy. It is crazy. You're not even talking about a normal athlete. A normal athlete's an hour a day in a two-hour time on their game. Like, what is 17? This is three hours plus a day. This is like an endurance. That's an endurance athlete. It's an endurance athlete. It's like someone who's like a marathon runner that is also trying to strength train four years a week. It's like a no shit, Sherlock. No, that's mainly cardio. Let's be honest. Like that excess amount of like movement. Totally. It has to be. Three hours. Yeah, it's crazy. I wonder.

26:30Lift weights. You know what athletes, because there are a couple sports that train athletes like that. Because not all sports do that. Even at the high level in college, sometimes they beat up. Like if you're an athlete at that level, they often beat people up a little excessively in my opinion. But there are some sports that are just crazier than others. Like water polo is one of them. Oh, yeah, water polo. Were they just extra, they're just working out all day. I mean, soccer players run a lot too, but that's not three hours. I mean, maybe for a small window of conditioning. I don't even think soccer players, not even wrestlers, Justin.

27:01Wrestlers will spend a lot of time, but I think water polo has to be the most. The intensity on wrestling is like way up. I would like, you know, did they say what kind of athlete? I mean, can you not guess? It's a marathon runner. Who else is doing 17 hours of endurance training a week? Well, it says athletic training. Well, okay, athletic training. I don't know. That could be anything. I think they'll call that running would be called athletic training, right? I mean, what else are you doing? Four strength training sessions? Like four workouts a week? With that? Yeah. By the way, four strength training sessions a week is excessive for any athlete except for powerlifters, bodybuilders.

27:38Triathletes, yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. That'd be a lot. What kind of athletes did you guys train where you were just like, I cannot believe the amount of volume. Like you're psychotic. Yeah. For me, water polo was at the top. I trained a couple water polo players at high levels, and they were in the pool twice a day for two hours. Twice a day. Like morning before everything and after. Mixed martial arts athletes could take a major beating. Oh, it could be a lot. At the high level. Oh, yeah. Could take a major beating. Yeah. Could take a major beating. I mean, they have trained resilience. But I mean, also, those guys, I'm not building 10 pounds of muscle on them.

28:15I'm just making them more resilient. And then from an aesthetic perspective, because a lot of people just want to be healthy and have aesthetics. This is what most people want. So most people are like, I don't want to care about being an elite polo competitor, water polo athlete or whatever. I just want an aesthetic physique. I've done jujitsu, judo. I've done competitive levels. I've also just strength trained, which is mostly what I've done. Rollerblading. The most, I've never rollerblading. did you see me rollerblading competitive actually you rollerbladed i did yeah okay you did all the you did a lot of it i did um i did roller hockey for a minute i did that too for me for me i could the in terms of leanness and muscularity it was just straight strength training with some walking and diet i could even at jujitsu even i was competing at high high level the leanest i could get and maintain performance was like 11 12 any leaner than that i just my performance would suck oh yeah on the mat yeah it doesn't benefit you at all no well that's why when we see these athletes that are highlighted the dk met calves and the reggie bushes that make the magazine covers where they're like six percent body fat and they're playing football at the highest level it's just like that is such an anomaly yeah that is such an anomaly there's aliens out there dude there just are there are they're amongst us then that's the examples of it like you know or the phil he's the bodybuilders like that dude that dude came out winning winning pro shows natural and not lifting weights so he's playing he was playing basketball it looked like a bodybuilder like thor bjorgensen yeah giants yeah people and we always i mean it's it's cool to to watch those people i admire one of the circus yeah it's exactly it's fun it's like wow wow, that's so cool.

29:58But it's like, what happens to too many people is they see that and they think like, if I just work hard enough, I can be. I saw, I saw a slow motion video from the side. So it was from the side of a 90 plus mile an hour fastball, a pitcher throwing it. The arm torque and twisting. Yeah. It looked like, I couldn't put my arm in that position without throwing. It's wild. Like if you put my arm in that position, if you tried to manipulate my arm. They're snapping their arm off. Oh, the torque on the humerus is... I mean, it's the reason why they can't go back-to-back games. I mean, they have to...

30:36It looks wild. They have to recover. They have to be real careful about the amount of pitches they throw, too. Like, they got to keep a real good track. Dude. You're limited. I mean, you have only a certain amount. Well, it's one of the highest... We talked about this the other day in a podcast about, like, proper power. Like, it's... Oh, yeah. It is one of the highest expressions of power, right? You are throwing... It's like physics with just explosive power. It shows your fingertips. It's all the way you're throwing your whole body. You know what would happen to the average person if you were able to get them to move their arm that fast?

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31:09They wouldn't be able to decelerate. It would twist off their body. I think it would almost, it would probably tear. Oh, it would tear something. Oh, yeah. You'd tear ligaments for days. You know what's funny about that is that it would actually more, a deconditioned person who never works out might be okay and just get sore or hurt themselves a little bit of that. but like a someone who lifts weight and is strong and healthy more likely to do more damage yeah yeah do more damage yeah that's always i always found that interesting to like talk about or think about because it's it's kind of counterintuitive you think like people don't realize that yeah how different the adaptation is it's like wait a second you're this really fit buff guy how did you carry your shoulder you don't know how to decelerate like you never train those muscles like especially the hamstrings is always the one that blows out you know when you start to run again yeah because it's like you don't train to decelerate you have to literally you know be intentional about that well it's like it's like uh taking a a funny car or one of these thousand plus horsepower cars that are designed to go in a perfect straight line and go race the newberg and go like okay i'm gonna rip around corners with all that let's like that car would that thousand house for would get destroyed by a fiat a 200 horsepower fiat and that just like that doesn't make sense to the average person like wait a second how is that possible this thing goes from zero to whatever in three seconds like but that little fiat will take those corners with 200 horsepower and beat it around a track that where it has to turn and bend the handling yeah like that thing is may has so much power in a straight line but it take it around a corner and it's coming right out from underneath dude you're you got the your beard is glistening bro so what is that it's all shiny i'm like what's happening over here so i uh so could you comb that in i do i'm i'm i uh i ordered a i should shout out the company because it's not anybody we work with and I really like it.

32:50I found like, it was Amazon's top ranked beard brush. Really nice. So it's a brush. Yeah, with the Caldera beard. Caldera Lab Oil. Yeah, the Caldera beard oil. Are you going to grow it? I am. I am. Although my wife is making me self-conscious about that because she's asked me like three times. I'm like, you already asked me that. And she's like, oh, are you growing it out? I'm like, yeah, yeah. And then again, she's like seeing me comb it. She's like, why are you growing your beard out? And I'm like, do you not like it? Is this why you keep asking? She's like, no. oh you're all defensive and oh you're moving and i'm like could you imagine if i did that about your hair every time you're like oh you're gonna color your hair so that's what you're doing so and then i didn't just ask you once i came back and i go like so you decided to call your hair huh like would you not go like what the fuck you don't like it like that's how you're making me feel right now somehow it got turned around on me that i'm irritable right now and i'm like sure i'm just like okay you know so you need to calm down yeah it was like that dude it's like i know you haven't had a lot of sleep yeah yeah and i'm like honey you've asked me three times in my fact i told you before i was gonna do it's like hey i'm gonna tell vicky i'm gonna let the beard grow out a little bit right it was like she's like oh okay and then i did it and then i got ordered the thing and i've been doing the beard oil every night and she's like so why are you growing your beard out but do you like the oil oh yeah well because with the gray hairs one of the things i what i don't like about when we grow our beards out all of us uh is it gets all wiry yeah And if you use the beard oil and you comb it, it'll bring it all down.

34:18Oh, yeah, yeah. It'll bring it all down. And I've actually never made an attempt to really do that. I've always just, let's grow out. I hate when it gets all like that. That's probably why I stop because, yeah, it gets a little wild. Yeah, but now that Caldera has a beard oil, and I love all Caldera's product, I'm like, okay, well, maybe I'll actually try and for the first time train my beard. Have you seen the ad they're running with me on it? The one that's just me putting stuff on my face and I'm just looking at it. The one that you did a shot in the front? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a good ad.

34:42I get hit with that all the time. I'm like, this is me, dude. Stop sending me this. I want to see myself. I wonder what Doug would look like with a beard. I know. Have you ever tried growing one? Do you have a patchy? No, I don't think so. It doesn't grow a lot right here, but I think it'd be fine. Oh, grow a beard. I did a soul patch once. No, don't do that. No, I would never do that again. I did that when we first started. That was many, many years ago. Dude, you need to grow a beard. Wow, you would look. I agree. Let's have you grow a beard. I was thinking about doing a mustache Justin's got the mustache He's already established No, a beard, bro He would actually look good I would love to see you in a beard I mean, you have a good jawline So I understand why you like to shave But I think a beard would look good on you, dude Yeah, I've been pretty much clean shaven most of my life Yes, you have That's why it'd be fun to kind of change it up a little bit Let's see what Rugged Doug looks like Rugged Doug Come on, do it Just one, you don't have to keep it If you don't like it, shave it Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:41All right. I'd like to see it. Maybe over the Thanksgiving holiday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That'd be cool. You come back. I got a nice little five-a-clock shadow. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. I want to see you in a beard. Yeah, me too. Have you met me all the years? Never. Never. No, I've never seen Doug with a beard. Come on, dude. I want to see a beard. Okay. I want to see a beard. There's these videos on social media of dads suddenly shaving their beards. And the kids. And then going to their daughters in particular. They freak out. No, especially girls. You're not my dad. Especially daughters hate it. And if you look at the data on this, you know this, right?

36:11When they do studies on this, people will generally consider men with beards to be better fathers. Yeah, it's consistent. Really? Yeah, for some reason, they think you're a better father because you have a beard. And I'm watching these videos with the kids. You're more Santa Claus-like. And the kids are like, ah, dad, don't do that. Okay, so let's try and unpack why you think that is. I don't know. Oh, you don't think so? Is it wisdom? No. Health? Age? No. I think when you stay clean, shaven, sharp, you're more particular about looking handsome, your image. You start to grow a beard. I don't give a fuck.

36:48You're full in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not trying to get true. This isn't the best way to attract a lady. You know what I'm saying? I think it's more that. You think so? Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Because with attractiveness, women tend to consider a short beard. Even though there's examples, of course, now, because beards have become a little more popular, but for the most part, your male models that you'll see, they'll be clean shaven. Yeah. They'll be clean shaven. Yeah, but that's different. Well, that's what I'm, but that's what we, Yeah, but who's looking at the male models? That's what we're being marketed to.

37:19Yeah, not really. What? It's not, women aren't looking at male models. It's dudes. What? Yeah, the modeling space is run by dudes, gay dudes. Whoa. You know that. It's not a secret. So straight dudes are watching gay dudes? No, no, no, no, no, no. It's male models. You're talking about fashion? Yeah. No, that's - All male models in general. They're not selling. Look at male models selling things to men. Men selling things to men typically will have a beard. They're not going to be like - You don't think when your wife shops for something that she buys you from that she's the one who's looking at the dude wearing it in the ad?

37:56Yeah. If he has a beard, she's probably thinking he's handsome. He's probably not had a beard, though. Really? Yeah. He probably doesn't. I'd like to see what her - I mean, there are more today. There's more of it today than there are used to. I mean, there's tattooed guys. None of that was like a thing just 20 years ago. 20 years ago, it would be clean-shaven, no tattoos, pretty face. Like, that's, you know, maybe a gay guy. I don't know. I haven't figured out if it's more. What's the percentage of gay guys? Yeah, I wonder if the preferences change because of the question. Yeah, like they're looking for the fashion industry.

38:26The fashion industry is like that. What? It's typically like, especially the male model, female. it's gay men that are controlling that look it's a big stereotype that I'm saying but I think it might be true I have had a couple male model friends that were straight listen bodybuilding is mostly gay yeah is it though okay so according to one analysis approximately 6.75 % of male models are LGBT 6? that's it That's it. That means 94 % are straight. That's lower than the normal population. A lot of guys who are good-looking model. Yes. I mean, it's a way to make some money. Meet a lot of girls. Yeah.

39:13Yeah. All right. You were way off on that one, bro. I've been bodybuilding. Hey, check bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is higher than that. Bodybuilding is higher than that. How many bodybuilders? Come on, dude. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. I watched that movie with your homeboy. That's Sal's dog. No reliable data or fish. official statistics. They're all closeted. That's why. I did a word report. Didn't you do, you did both? Little modeling, little money modeling. No, I did not do modeling. I do not count. I don't count one romance novelist modeling. I did modeling. That has to count. Yeah. And look, he's straight.

39:49Wait a minute, you did modeling? Yeah, I did. I know he's straight. What? What was your modeling? So I got a gig for Oracle for their annual report and it was filmed at, where photos were taken down at the stadium for the A's. And all I did, I got paid$1 ,000 to sit and watch baseball for a day. Wow. Yeah. And they shot photos. That's it. How'd they find you? I had been part of an agency. You were in an agency? You had headshots and everything? Everything, man. So you're just sitting there and they're taking pictures of you? Yeah, yeah. I got paid. I don't even think they used it. Why don't we know things about you?

40:25I know. Why do you always stop? Well, this is you never asked. That's why. I don't need to ask you. You don't have anything about me. I'm volunteering it now. Wow. What else have you done? We learn things all the time. Oh, I've done all kinds of things. Really? You ever a dancer? Never. Never a dancer. What else obscure have you been paid for? What's the weirdest job you've done? What's the weirdest? What's the weirdest way you ever made money? Even five bucks. I don't care. Yeah, no. Never a dancer. I did teach kindergarten. Yeah, I knew that. did you try modeling ever? I didn't try but I did have pictures I did and they're embarrassing they're really embarrassing they're not as embarrassing as some of the ones I have well no but I don't know if yours are out there oh no no I will never let out on the internet some of the stuff I took real embarrassing one well I made the mistake of letting a professional photographer who by the way specializes in boudoir let her go like okay you lead me I'm open I'll do whatever that's the one where you're you had a swing I've let the swing out so you can imagine what's not out wasn't there one where you're like hugging the teddy bear I was naked in a bush dog like like naked in a bush what yeah dude why yes why though maybe if we get famous enough and I need some money I'll sell it for like crazy money just let it out call that the Homer Simpson oh it's like a reverse version of that I'm like, I'm hugging forward into a bush.

42:00How did she sell that? Hugging the bush. I sold her because I had had a previous, remember I tell the story about - You're naked and just hugging you. Bro. Were you actually naked though? There's more than that. Wow. So you know the book picture, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so the book picture, the story behind that is, that was my best friend who was a landscape photographer. Right, that's right. And this was before Mind Pump even. And I was learning about Instagram, and this was the this period of time where i realized that a lot of the people that were in the fitness space were you they were getting professional photos of themselves and so i i hit my boy up my best friend up and i go and he's a really good landscape photographer said hey i need to do this like photo shoot uh what'd you do for me he's like what kind of photo shoot and i'm like well you know kind of fitnessy sexy-ish kind of you know and he's like you mean like your shirts off and stuff like that.

42:54I'm just like, yeah, kind of like that. He's like, okay. He's like, best friend, you know what I'm saying? He's telling you this, I want to do it. He's like, thanks. And I get to his house and he's got the stuff set up and he's like, okay, what do you want to do? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm not the photographer, right? What if I was Nicky? Most awkward. So he took those photos. No, no, no. Oh, okay. What's great about this, and I should give him the credit, he's never done anything like this and i've got a couple photos that have been picked up on the internet and stuff and used and at least three of his are are those and they're just these random you know random shots and not really crazy boudoir shots just shirt off yeah shirt off traveling the chair straddling a chair one dumping water on myself so yeah there's some there's some there's some a little bit there's stuff like that right and it was just here dude best friend and i are like i mean just mortified both you know i'm saying just i don't think we we talked at all and for a while you couldn't even look him in there it was like i just it was just an awkward month after that you know i'm saying just and so uh so that one gets one of his gets picked up it gets picked up for a romance novel and i got paid for it and i literally just gave him the money i said hey bro you deserve this Yeah, I'm going to say, here you go.

44:15I'll never put you through that again. But it was so awkward because I had to really come up with the ideas. I don't have a photographer eye or anything like that. And so I still was on this plan of I need to create all these photos to try and attract attention on Instagram early days. And so I know somebody who does really, really good photos here in the Bay Area. In fact, she's shot a lot of stuff for us. and she specializes in boudoir but she does everything family photos everything she's done she did those photos i have of max and me and katrina those are her yeah she's incredible right and so her name's t and i i call her up and i say hey t i said tell her what i'm trying to do for the business and stuff um or the what's not a business trying to build a business and trying to gain followers on instagram and so i need to have all these photos i need a whole bunch of them and have with me as you want whatever you want to do and she's like cool she's excited because she's a photographer she does all this stuff and and i just agreed to myself they're like okay i'll just do whatever she says wow this is how a lot of bad stories you ever hear these stories you know how'd you get into the industry i just did what they wanted yeah oh man so that so the bush one yeah so yeah so she's like hey get in the bush yeah yeah she's like okay i have this idea just trust me and i'm like i do whatever whatever you want she's like okay she's like you know you're gonna be naked but you're not you won't the way i'll shoot it you won't see everything or like that and i'm like okay you know and so she has me like it's a big giant bush and you're outside and i'm outside yeah well it's a kind of a private property right so i hope so but i'm like i'm like this if this is the bush right here i'm like into the into the bush you know she's like shooting this way and i remember that was like that was like the i had already done now what's your in your head what's your inner dialogue at this point what the fuck are you doing you're never gonna share this you don't say you're never gonna share this so but i was like great you know it's uh i don't know um you know i get you guys we're we're big on we're we're professionals in our in era and one of the things i my favorite when i have a client is just like hey i have i i think we should do it this way i think that but you're the professional your thing your thing i trust you and i mean i love that like let me do your thing and so i had that attitude like listen i i by no means think i know what is a good shot or what will do well or whatever it's like you're the professional and i know she's good at what she does so tell me what to do and i'm just like katrina with you or are you by yourself no katrina was there yeah of course katrina's loving it yeah oh yeah he's like oh yeah that's hot hug the bush yeah yeah have him take more off he's super comfortable with himself oh no mine's not that bad mine's definitely not oh yeah no mine are bad i took my i took photos because i was getting really fit uh and i just wanted to document it but there's some of them that are just like hey look into the camera like you're sexy and so i made oh those are like all of such a goofy you know i'm like behind like a behind a fit like a chain link fence let me in i've got I did post one a long time ago that was for Valentine's Day.

47:27I'm holding like a metal heart. Oh, my God. Probably just. So, oh, man. I mean, what? A hell of followers from that one. Oh, God. You know what? So remember when I talked about before we started this, I went through a transition on Instagram. I always try and tell people that we help building a business. I mean, I took off like a rocket ship with stuff like that. Like the amount of engagement and comments on my page. But you wouldn't recommend that's how you build your - No, and so that's my point I'm going to say. So I had to go through this transition of building my page of, yeah, yeah. I mean, the attention I was getting was all the wrong attention.

48:04It was not for my fitness knowledge. Even though I would sprinkle that in there too, like I would be teaching - They weren't liking it for the fitness. No, they were like, when's the next half-naked photo coming? That's what I'm here for, you know what I'm saying? And that was like how it was growing. JoJo Baby, I appreciate it. So, yeah, so I had all this attention, but I couldn't convert it into business. And so that's when I bailed on all of that stuff. And then it was just like value, value, value, value. And then my numbers went way down. But the people that were engaging were like, hey, is that right?

48:39Or is this really helpful? Or what would you do? They were asking about nutrition and fitness and the stuff that was helpful. Do you think it would have been crazy had it turned into a successful monetary business? Would you have been put in a position where you're like, ooh, I keep going in this direction? Well, I mean, you could argue that it was having somewhat success. It just was having way more of the other stuff. So even before that, you were like, I don't like this. Oh, I didn't like any of it. I mean, it was a discipline thing for me. It's like, I'm going to do this thing. Like I was saying, not to offend everybody that's on social media and stuff like that, but I used to literally say, like, I wasn't on Instagram.

49:19I wasn't on Facebook. I wasn't on any of those things. I was like, I have friends in real life. I don't need to get online. That was literally my thing. Someone would be like, hey, do you have Facebook? I'm like, no, I have real friends. That was like my attitude, right? It was only because at that time, and we're talking back 17 plus years, I started to meet people that were young 20 year old kids that had built a following of 10 ,000 people, which is not very many. You know, it was a lot then, but 10 ,000 people on Facebook and were running six figure plus businesses off that Facebook. And I was like, and I had heard of that, but once I met somebody, I was like, you did that?

50:00And that really, then I was interested. And then it was like, okay, I'll do this and try and figure this out. And so that was a lot of me not knowing anything of what I was doing, trying to figure it out. And thank God I found out that that's not a good pathway. Have you ever done anything model-wise, Justin? No. Really? No. Nothing. No, except for that one time you accidentally sent us yourself. Yes. You guys remember that? That was just from my wife. Top five mind pump moments. Oh, God. Did we talk about that? We did bring it up. Yes, we did. That was so great. I was so. And we were good about it, bro.

50:40We didn't rip any of dinner. I was so embarrassed, but at the same time, it was so funny. And you're so lucky it wasn't worse. Oh, I know. It was so lucky it was PG-13. He took a picture to send to his wife, but sent it to our group text. And it was like a sexy in the mirror picture. With a shirt off. Yeah, with a shirt off. But it was like. She appreciates it. we're all guilty of probably sending our wives a lot more than that so it could have been really bad if it was something like that she was there too so i was like yeah it just because it tagged photos and like i had had like the group and like i was i was sending you guys something else and it just added that one in yeah i was like no and we're at dinner and we were good dude we had your back because we saw and we could have totally ripped into you at dinner oh my god but we all just looked at each other like this we'll save this for later well i mean i did take pictures for my website you know for business but like they're professional well and that's why it's so awkward for me when we do those right because like i just like i don't even know what to do with my hands and my face anything dude i don't know what the fuck i'm doing dude i'm not even like a flexing guy like anything else there's an art to that stuff dude i ain't good at it either there's people that they just i mean you i've we well we've had them we've had so many models we've hired so many people to come in and shoot photos and videos for our for all that's what they do and and there's a clear difference remember when we had what's her name that that's like a professional model that we had uh that we used a lot i remember i liked her a lot you brought her from Santa Cruz.

52:18What's her name? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Can't think of her name right now? That's all right. So anyways. Kendra. Kendra. Shout out to Kendra. I mean, she was like, I think at that, when we were like, we were always like, what we used a lot was like fans that were in the show that also kind of like dabbled in modeling. But she was like the first like professional model. Like somebody who like made a living off of modeling that we brought in. It was a clear difference. And I remember all the editors were like, oh, my God. No, she just knew every angle and the way to look at the camera, the way to position your body like you and half of that is like it's awkward because when you're directing it's like you got to kind of like stop and adjust them especially when you don't know yeah you know like i could see like that's the funny part is i could see it in other people but like for me to you know replicate that it's just doesn't right it's not your craft right you're not but but you could totally tell when she'd get on i could look and see it she'd be sitting there uh you know the camera guys would be getting all their stuff and we'd be talking to her about how she'd be like okay we're shooting this shot and she would literally her face would change her body posture would change and be like like 10 shots we shot and they would be like amazing like yeah whoa like there's definitely there's people that can just do that you know yeah we're not that because yeah one thing you just look at yeah to present yourselves different no justin does his famous pose in the picture is like he instantly went all right i'm gonna do the job you don't look like that normally what do you do i know so i always get so angry i'm like that no No!

53:45This is a bad representation. Adam, are those the new Viore? Seaside. Seaside. I have a black pair. They're the most soft, comfy. I've got every color, but they're green. So they're Viore Seaside. Yeah, they're Seaside line. They are so soft. I have the black. Yeah, that and the sweatshirt. Bro, they're just wearing a soft blanket. You try their sweater that goes with it. You try their sweatshirt that goes with it? The sweatshirt that goes with it is like super. I didn't get that with the blue ones, but yeah, I have, I have the blue, the black, and then my favorite are the, um, I think it's, I don't know what color they call it, but it's like a sand color.

54:21Yeah. Um, or they just keep coming out. They haven't. So I bought Jessica a sweater from there, but it's not like a, athleisure where it's like, no, isn't it? You and I commented when we were in there shooting our last, uh, shoot with them, they have really expanded like the styles. Yeah. So like, into like, uh, that's my favorite too. Cause it's like, but it's like not athleisure wear. some of the stuff now now some of the stuff is like you'll just wear this yeah and it's no i mean they have flannels and cool vest like no they've really uh they've really grown beyond just i mean they remember when they started i mean joe could correct me if i'm wrong but like i really felt like they were the answer to lululemon men yeah because lululemon took off like crazy but it was of course the yoga pants for women it became a you know it's a historic time and fashion right like they like they created that that air that uh space right athleisure wear but the they put very little energy towards the men's section and i remember i used to buy some of the stuff it didn't fit me right i didn't really care for it much and viore really addressed that and viore went hard joe went really hard founder of viore i mean uh went really hard on we're gonna address like men athleisure wear and they crushed it and then they really started then they moved over into the women's space crushed that and now they've like grown outside of just athleisure wear i like their um yoga pants better for my wife than the same than the way that's creepy but they look seriously my wife really no i mean same yeah i like it on your wife too whoa all right you know what i'm always trying to sell my wife on the uh um the tennis skirts and she's He was like, when am I going to wear this?

56:07I'm like, I'll find reasons. I'm thinking about picking up tennis. Yeah, exactly. I'll pick it up just for that. Dude, I got to tell you guys about the craziest article I read. I don't know if you guys have seen this. This is a case, I believe, I want to say it's in the UK. I'm going to pull it up. It is. It's a UK woman. Check this out. So a woman, obviously not mentally well, 32-year-old woman, goes on these like fetish websites and is looking was looking for someone because her fantasy was to be murdered tortured and murdered what dismembered tortured and murdered and she was looking for someone that would engage in this with her she found someone this man killed her and now he's on trial file.

56:56So this is in the evidence all the evidence is like she voluntarily did it she wanted it this was her thing doesn't matter obviously it doesn't matter but my my point with this is this is such a good extreme example of how human reason falls apart without this objective morality because i could reason and say she's uh consensual this is her body it's her choice she wants it not even role playing they went all the way through he she went and he did exactly that traveled to florida She flew all the way to Florida for this. That's freaking nuts. How crazy is that? That is wild. Isn't that wild? Wow.

57:36So now here's where I'm going to make this sound even wilder, because you have now assisted suicide. Yeah, I was going to say. All over the world. Can you look up Doug in Canada? Look at the Canadians. How many Canadians have now been essentially put to death medically? Yeah. It's actually an alarming number. Yeah. I think it's like 2 ,000 or something like that. If I'm not, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, what happened to the pushback with that? It's like, you know, for some reason, all of a sudden now, this became like, oh, this is a great option. Boy, in 2023, 15 ,343 Canadians. 15 ,000 people. Received medical assistance in dying.

58:16Medically assisted. Now, how many are real? What a weird, like, it's wild that we're doing this. Now, what percentage, though, of those people are, like, vegetables and that are, like... When you're unresponsive, that's not considered assisted suicide. Okay. Assisted suicide is consensual. It's me saying I have this terminal disease or I'm always in pain or I'm depressed. Yeah, it's mainly, yeah. Some of it's mental. Some of the, because I know that they opened the floodgates and essentially are like, if you are extremely mentally tormented or depressed, that that now will qualify. So what does that say there, Doug?

58:56Yeah, so since they started this in 2016, there's been over 60 ,000. This is wild, you guys. This is wild. This is human reason gone craziness because there's no objective morality. It's not right. Well, it's accounted for 4.7 % of all deaths. This is what? In Canada, yeah. This is crazy. Doug, look up the reasons. What would qualify you for assisted suicide? Well, so they say 96 % of them had grievous and irredeemable medical conditions. Yeah, well, what's that? Yeah, exactly. I mean, that could be AIDS. Cancer was the most common. Cancer that you could live with for 20 or 30 years. Yeah, just still.

59:41Yeah, look up what's that. Is it like you're at stage four cancer and you've got maybe months to live and you're like, I don't want to go through these last four months? But also it's like, and again, if we try to reason this with human reason, it could go crazy. I'm trying just to play devil's advocate, right? I'm not like by any means. I'm trying to think like where does this kind of make sense or understanding like where you could see that? Like stage four cancer of terminal cancer is a gnarly last couple months. If you had terminal, if one of you guys had some terminal illness and it's like you're suffering and you're looking at me and you're like, bro, just help me kill myself.

1:00:20You know what I'm going to tell you? No. Yeah. I'm no, bro. If you want to do that to yourself, I don't want you to. You could do this to yourself, but I'm not going to help you do this. No, I wouldn't. This is crazy to me. I believe in miracles. So here are the main reasons. Illness-related, so physical pain, nausea, other forms of suffering. Nausea. Serious incurable illness, disease, or disability. The second one is loss of ability. So loss of the ability to perform activities of daily living or engage in enjoyable and meaningful activities. the third one is fear of future suffering uh the fear of what the future may hold yeah that would be like that that would be like the stage four cancer in psychological suffering isn't that always what happens when people commit suicide isn't there always psychological suffering when someone tries to kill themselves yeah and now we're legalizing it and making it i mean i guess it's oh i don't know man yeah it'd be interesting on the the process they have to go through to get improve like how how easy is it is it like i just got to come in and be like well if 60 000 people are doing it it's got to be just get another right words yeah to get what you want it's got it's got to be yeah and i almost feel like it's kind of sold like if you think hey listen you know we have this option and we you go to sleep you don't wake up it's painless i mean oh terrible again we got to be careful with this is where like you need this is just evidence there's so much more evidence of this, but you need to believe in an ultimate power because that's where you'll get your objective morality.

1:01:54If we rely on ourselves, human reasoning goes crazy. We could rationalize so much insanity because I can make an argument right now. I could sit here right now and make an argument that if it's your life, it's your body, you can decide to kill yourself. And if you want someone else to do it and they agree to do it, then it's okay. There's nothing wrong with that yeah it says they shelved it doug uh i don't think so this isn't 2024 this same argument these really let me double check that reducing the population yes like oh okay so where and how much you want to bet that that's part of the argument that they're like it's a strain on the medical system yeah it's good for climate change this is good for you know the medical care because it's cheaper and you know it's just all these rational like it's crazy they They use this weird morality behind it.

1:02:44So it does sound like they shelved the medically assisted dying for people with mental illness. Yeah, gee. I wonder why. Yeah. That's crazy. Wow. That's crazy. That's a lot of people. That's so many. That's alarming as hell. Yeah. To me, that's just wild. That would be sad if I had a family member that wanted to do that, and then I find out, oh, the doctor did it for him. Ugh. Yeah. Horrible. I'm furious. Anyway. Running on ketones gives you sharper thought process. It's good for your brain, improves verbal fluency, makes you feel good. But what if you don't want to be on a ketogenic diet? Well, you could try taking exogenous ketones.

1:03:19My favorite company is Ketone IQ. Take a little bit of that. Instant ketones, instant focus. Go check them out. Go to ketone.com forward slash mind pump. On that link, you can get 30 % off your subscription. Here comes the show. Our first caller is Matt from New York. What's up, Matt? What's happening? What's going on, Matt? What's up, fellas? How are you doing? Good. How can we help you? Doing very well. First, I just wanted to give the obligatory thank you for everything you guys do. My brother-in-law, he actually introduced me to you guys four years ago and haven't missed an episode since then.

1:03:54So thank you. I'm actually now at the point where I went back to start listening, like from the beginning. Oh, God. Absolute gems there. I don't know if you guys have played these back, but it's so cool to hear you forecasting what you're going to do to grow the business and basically how much of that has come true. Very, very cool. I appreciate that. However, there is one thing that I need to bring to your attention. Doug, I apologize in advance. You are going to absolutely hate me for this. I'm up to episode 261. At the 5 minute and 15 second mark, Adam says, and I quote, we eventually will build a mind pump gym, and when that day comes, you can hold me to this.

1:04:32I will make Doug rollerblade in tights, and we will video it. No way we said that. Oh, we were so making your ass do that, bro. Thank you for reminding us. Wow. Adam, I know you're a man of your word, so there you go. Yes. Matt, I don't like you. All right, yeah. I know this is a six-year-old email. That should be easy. I know you said six-year-old email. If I put that in there, you probably would have blocked me. Wow, dude. All right. Okay. Thank you. So now to my question. Send them all the programs. I'm currently bulking and I have a goal of adding one inch to my arms. According to my research, it looks like I need to gain roughly 10 to 20 pounds to do that.

1:05:12So 32 years old, 5 '11", 185 pounds. My nutrition has been dialed. Currently eating 3 ,000 calories and been increasing roughly a half to one pound per week. For the training, I was thinking of running Aesthetic. Most recently, I've run MAPS 15 and Powerlift. I just did phase one day one and it took me an hour and a half. So this is not a problem for me to do on the weekend, but for days two and three, I don't have that kind of time during the week. I wake up at 4am to get to the gym by five and need to be out of there by 545, six. So working out of the evening is also not an option. I want to know what's the best way to modify the program, either splitting it up the days that I can't do fully or just doing the compound lifts for the foundational days then doing the focus session on biceps and back as those are my main leg body parts um and then just really quick after aesthetic my plans to run symmetry as i know i'm going to need to do some mobility work running from 15 to power lift to aesthetic so appreciate the guidance in advance what do you think about uh maps anabolic advance instead of aesthetic yeah that would be good and aesthetic's a lot of volume dude for most people it's really bodybuilding inspired it's really bodybuilding inspired like having that kind of time to to lift in the gym you could also just do aesthetic and cut the sets down by a third.

1:06:27So when it asks for three, four sets, you do two. And do something like that or cut out an exercise. I like cutting the sets down. I like just giving them apps anabolic advanced. Yeah, anabolic advanced would be good too. Do you have that program? No, I don't. What does that look like? Is it also three days a week? Anabolic advanced is four days a week, if I'm not mistaken. Okay. How many days a week do you want to go to the gym? I actually like being in the gym every single day. So like the plan right now is, you know, I would do like the foundational days if I'm able to do a full one and then do the, you know, do the focus session on the other day.

1:07:02And then I do like recovery. So I'll go and do mobility for a little bit or do sauna or something like that. So I like to be in the gym every single day. Not necessarily need to work out every single day. So have you done, you've done traditional MAPS anabolic, right? Yeah. Okay. So here's the other thing you do. He could blend. Yeah. You could also do MAPS anabolic traditional. With focus days. With focus days in between on the arms. and I would have you ever done occlusion training for your arms? No. That'll give you a quarter inch on your arms in weeks. Let me send you our occlusion guide and then here's what you do.

1:07:36At the end of one of your workouts not all of them, but one of them you're going to do a few sets of occlusion for your biceps and triceps and that'll add a quarter inch fast. So you got the breakdown here, right? So you're going to basically run, go back to anabolic but then instead of trigger days, you'll have focus days. That's where you go and do a light workout for biceps. So literally take from the MAPS Aesthetic focus day program and make that your trigger days on MAPS Anabolic. So run MAPS Anabolic as laid out, but now add in focus days instead of trigger days, and then we're going to send the occlusion guide for you, and then like Sal's saying, just one of the days, end your workout with an occlusion.

1:08:19Like a few sets of occlusion. Yeah. yeah i got it awesome and if you find if you find yourself getting burnt out cut it down a little bit but that's it you feed yourself well i mean that should that should you should be okay even that's less volume than aesthetic so that's it and then keep going with what you're doing diet wise just keep trying to creep up a couple hundred you know calories every couple weeks to feed to feed the growth uh but sounds like you're doing really good awesome yeah i was sensing that with aesthetic i mean just doing the first day was like an hour and a half the second day was also an hour and a half third day it took me like an hour 15 and i just i don't think there's any way I could keep up with that with like the amount of limited availability I have in the morning.

1:08:55Yeah. No, it's a lot of volume. It is. Yeah. This is perfect. This is perfect. And then I like your idea after that to go to symmetry. Like you said, I think that's good advice. So run, run the anabolic with the focus days, get the worst on the occlusion guide. And then after that, do symmetry. You have symmetry. I do. Yep. Okay. Okay, good. You're good. Okay. All right, dude. Yeah, bro. I appreciate it. I'll make sure you get that video. getting rollerblades yeah i'm sorry again doug i appreciate it though hey good looking out man have a good christmas present see you man all right thanks did he say episode 260 something i don't remember that i don't remember that either that's cool i don't remember it either oh i oh it's it's documented though i mean it's documented well you have to find it before i do anything like that i don't know if i agreed to it either he's gonna edit it yeah you may have just thrown that out there that's cool that he said that we said we would do a bunch of things that we did now i'm like curious to see i know well of course we did you know we did remember some of early on we that one of the things i like i enjoyed that we did was we talked to the audience about the business moves i remember telling them about turning down sponsors and that no we're not going to work with just any company i remember the conversations around being a media company and and us just really only having a podcast at that point yeah not having other media or even yeah doing white label for products like that.

1:10:16It'd be interesting to hear some of the stuff that we, some of the stuff we got. But occlusion training, just for people listening, like this is one of the fastest ways I've ever added size to my arms and calves. It's pretty remarkable. Low impact. Very, very remarkable. Give it a shot, see what happens. It's super remarkable. It's almost, I remember how tempting it was to replace traditional. It won't do that. I mean, it was that good, though, that it tempts you to like, oh, maybe I'll just do this. And then you just do that and then you notice that like you missed the, but adding it just that little right amount.

1:10:50Yeah. Yep. Our next caller is Sandy from Texas. Hi Sandy. How you doing Sandy? Hi. Nice to meet y 'all. Yeah. How can we help you? Okay. So do you want me to read my question? Yeah. Whatever's easier for you. Okay. And I don't want to say thank you for taking my question. Um, I listened to y 'all all the time and I've learned a lot from you. I don't know. probably the last couple of years I've listened to you. Thank you. So, you know, my name is Sandy and I wanted to get your feedback on an issue I'm facing. I've been working out seriously for about 10 years. I'm sure more than that. I'm 59 now.

1:11:30When I was like 48, 49, I, one of my bucket list things was to do a bodybuilding competition um figure so i started out by doing the bodybuilding.com workouts um back then so and i got really great results um i also followed macros i was like crazy about that and i hired various trainers who taught me a lot as well um i've loved bodybuilding even when I was younger, but I never really was seriously into it. I would consider myself an active person throughout my whole life. Fast forward to the competition, I hired a coach, and looking back, he was one of those people, I think, who would rather I would have been on PEDs.

1:12:27He had me doing some things that I would never do now, tons of cardio, probably too much, I would question him and he didn't like that. I did do the competition, but I was way too lean. I was 8 % body fat. I looked terrible, to be honest. I did a second show the next year with a different trainer. I looked better, but still not good enough. I was probably about 12 % body fat. So now I'm 59. And for the last year, just losing focus on training. Um, I started HRT recently and it was like the beginning of September to try to help out with the way I've been feeling. I was dealing with a lot of fatigue, but then I thought maybe it's because I'm not working out a lot anymore.

1:13:20You know, I probably took a good five, six months where I didn't work out. Um, I'm still active, but I was still active, but nowhere near what I was doing before. um my fiance you know we would work out together all the time but he struggles a lot with stress sleep and injuries um we did invest in a home gym but i don't i like going to a gym more than having a home gym if that makes sense um but he likes it because it's way more convenient for him Um, um, so right now I'm currently at 140 and I'm guessing 23 % body fat. Um, and I just, the needle does not move. Um, I've been in 140 probably for the last two, three years.

1:14:09Um, I eat right, I track and work out, but nothing happens. Maybe one or two pounds. I want to be 130 and 16 % body fat by May of next year for our wedding. What can I do? How can I make my body respond? Is it my age? And then I sent you a couple of pictures from 10 years ago. Okay. Where are your macros at right now? Well, right now I'm got them set at 1 ,800 calories, 128 protein, 170 carbs, and 57 fat. We need a reverse diet. Yeah. We need to go up. You got to go up. Your calories are low, but let's, okay, let's back up for a second. let's talk about healthy and fit okay you want to get down to 16 body fat which is unhealthy for your wedding when you're and you're 59 yeah yeah that's that that's not a a good place to be first of all that's not a good place to be for a 20 year old let alone someone who's 59 so you're going to place yourself in a pretty unhealthy place to get down to 16 body fat you want to live as a fit, healthy person, you want to live in the low 20s.

1:15:25That's going to give you the best immunity. It's going to give you the best hormone response, the best energy, the best strength. And objectively, you'll look your best. Although what you consider what probably looks good is probably distorted because of your involvement in bodybuilding, that whole space, which I understand because that can be the same way. But the reason why the needle's not moving is because you're in a good place. Now, if you want the needle to move, the direction I would move is to build strength. And that's the metric that I would measure. I wouldn't look at body composition because your body composition, if you're sitting at the low 20s at your age and all that, you're crushing it.

1:16:09You're doing very, very well. Let me put it this way. Yeah. If you're 16 % at 60 and you get injured or sick, you're in a bad place. you're not in a good place at all because 16 is too it's it's not it's not a good body fat percentage to be at if anything happens so just just to put it differently but 21 to 24 percent fit strong fed like excellent and you'll and you'll be able to keep that uh for a very very long time your body's holding though where it's at because you're so low calorie though 1800 calories if you're active and you're lifting weights is not a lot of calories how many days a week are you working out right now well i've switched to four days a week because i can't do five six seven days anymore it's just too much so i switched to four and that's working out for me now because it's been about three months since i wrote the letter and since i've been on my hrt which started in september i've also added testosterone and i have noticed a difference Yeah, he will.

1:17:13In my strength. Be careful, though, because that's an outside signal that's telling you that. That's not you necessarily being that much healthier. You add testosterone to somebody who's not in the healthiest of place, they will feel better. So I would rather see you at three times a week like a MAPS anabolic, and then I'm going to bump your calories to 2 ,000-plus calories. Your body's going to respond so well. It will. You have so much muscle. You're lifting weights four days a week at 1 ,800 calories. I'm surprised you're able to do that still and you're probably not feeling great well I know you're not feeling great because your calories are so low I would automatically I would bump you automatically 250 calories a day and drop your training but if that's too much for you all at once then keep 4 days a week and just bump 250 with your calories get your fat up 57 grams for a woman is low especially one that strength trains bump your fat up and then watch how you feel watch your strength i wouldn't be surprised if you got leaner bail on the scale too because i don't really care about where your scale goes right now because we're going to build some muscle so we're going to go up and maybe on the scale one or two pounds but it's going to be muscle and your metabolism will get faster which will eventually lean you out now let's pause for a second sandy because you just heard what we had to say which is right i'm confident that it's right but how does what i'm saying what adam's saying feel because i can see right now in your body that something's happening.

1:18:40Some reserves. Yeah, what's going on? How are you feeling? Well, I do feel good. And trust me, I don't always eat 1 ,800 calories. I'm sure there's days I eat 2 ,000. It's not often because I can't eat. I've never eaten that much food. Yeah. So, but I do feel good. No, you don't. No, you don't. Sandy, you don't know what you feeling really good feels like yet. you're adapted to what you feel yeah but i'm not gonna no no stop right there we have you on recording you just told us you don't feel good are you scared what are you scared of what are you afraid of bump your calories up to 2200 calories what do you think is gonna happen it'll look like i might be uncomfortable in my own like i don't like to look like i weigh a lot okay if that makes sense so let's pause okay uh you think you're gonna gain a lot of body fat yeah okay so you think you're going to gain a lot of body fat but then you're also going to maybe going to be uncomfortable one of those is going to happen for sure that's the uncomfortable part the body fat's not going to happen i'm gonna tell you that right now if you go up 250 calories you're not going to blow up no that's not going to happen doesn't doesn't work it's physiologically impossible anyway but it's not going to happen especially if you're lifting weights if you're but the uncomfortable part you're gonna you're gonna feel for sure but i'm gonna strengthen you a little bit right now.

1:20:05Okay. You like lifting weights. You like being uncomfortable so long as you agree to it. So you probably like lifting weights because it changes your body. It's a challenge. It's the discipline, right? We love that. We love that. Can I add some more discomfort to what you're doing to challenge that part of you? Can we do that? Yes. Okay. yeah because i want to see a change okay i want you to bump your calories and i want you to get comfortably being uncomfortable with it because it's going to feel like a lot of food and you're going to question the hell out of it sandy are you open to working with somebody

1:20:49like a trainer like one of our trainers

1:20:54yeah i mean i like i said i i do enjoy learning from other people it's not just like reverse it's just not that it's that what we're asking you to do is real easy for us to say on a yeah on a call real quick and hang up but a lot of conversations the uncomfortable part when you're going through it is what is really difficult and just having a coach who you're checking in with on a regular basis that's reminding you that you're doing the right thing you're doing a good job when your head is getting in your own way and you're going i don't think you lack the discipline. I don't think you lack the smarts.

1:21:29I think you've been in this world long enough to get Macro's idea to understand that. I think psychologically it'll be the most difficult part and the most valuable part of the coach isn't necessarily teaching you new stuff, but it's getting you out of your own way. It's why I want you to work with one of our coaches. Yeah, because I've already tried not weighing myself. That always made me so disappointed. Gosh, I'm doing everything else right. Why? And I'm busting myself up about a scale. Sandy, how would you like to have a relationship with this where it's not stressful? You love it, but imagine if we got rid of the stress.

1:22:13How would you like that? Well, yeah, that would be great. We will if you trust us. It's there. It's going to take, though... and here's what will happen. You trust the coach. You just trust the coach. You go with it through the discomfort, through all the, the you're questioning it and it feels wrong and I don't know. But then once you start to see what happens and you feel the transformation, which will take a second, then it's not going to be as hard anymore. Cause then you'd be like, okay, I can, I can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel. And then the longer you stay with it, the more revelating it's going to become.

1:22:47And then this whole thing's going to change for you. the only other thing i worry about is like holidays and what if i don't do my diet 100 right like i stress about those things no no good timing yes it's good timing right now we're we're gonna reverse diet with holidays calories yeah perfect yeah this is the best time to do it yeah yep you're in a good place okay and i've never reversed dieted so i don't even know what to do that's right that's why don't worry you just if you promise me that you'll trust our coaches that do it. They've all been trained by us. Okay? So they know what to do with you.

1:23:21If you just trust us, we'll take care of you. Okay. Yeah, I'll try that. Alright. We're going to have you back on in three months. That's right. We're going to have you back on here and you know what you're going to tell me? Oh my God, that was so hard. That was so, I can't, but oh my gosh, I can't believe it. I feel so good. What a difference. You guys were right. That's what's going to happen. In three months, we're going to have you back on. Okay. All right, stick with it. We're going to have one of our trainers call you. Thank you, Sandy. Thank you so much. You got it. She's terrified. Yes, she is.

1:23:53That's why she has to. I hope she doesn't bail. I can tell as I'm talking to her. Yeah. What you hear is she's never reverse dieted. Yeah. Listen, I need people to understand this right now. It hasn't changed in three years. I need women to understand this right now. You're working out a lot. Four days a week with the kind of lifting she's doing, I can guarantee was a lot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. and you have a normal life. She was doing five days a week. She's sitting at 23 % body fat, which is great, which is a great body fat. And you're eating 1 ,800 calories a day. Too low. You can't build. It's too low.

1:24:23You can't build on that. No, you could do that for a short period of time. Yeah. But not all the time. And she said, I've never been on a reverse diet. I bet, and she's like, and then here's the other side of it. I want people, and you may do this to yourself. She tried to back out of it after she would just told us she didn't feel good. She backed, she's like, oh, no, but sometimes I hit 2 ,000 and I feel good. I'm like, no, you just told me you don't. Not to mention 2 ,000 once in a while is not a surplus. I bet you it's 1 ,600 sometimes too. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. It takes discomfort to change.

1:24:54These are success stories that I love. Oh, no, you take someone like, she's got shit. If you saw her picture, she had great muscle mass on her. Oh, my God. So you give that girl some calories. Her muscles are sponges waiting for some water, waiting for those nutrients. They're hungry for it. But she's got to bail on the scale because that will mess with her head because she'll probably go up on the scale of five pounds just building muscle alone. She's going to feel uncomfortable. But once she gets over that and past that, her fast metabolism, she'll look better than she's ever looked. She'll be eating more than she's ever ate.

1:25:24And she won't have this crazy stressful relationship with fitness. Get rid of it. We believe in you, Sandy. Our next caller is Jason from North Carolina. What's up, Jason? How you doing, Jason? What's up, buddy? Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks so much for everything you guys do. I really appreciate you having me on. Yeah, man. How can we help you? Well, I'll give you a little bit of background about me. I'm 44 years old, and when I turned 40, I got really sick. And let me back up a little bit more. Sorry. I grew up as a heavy kid, overweight, and then I ended up as an adult weighing 305 pounds at the age of 20, and I was 5 '7".

1:26:03And so I thought, well, I got to do something. So I did exactly what you guys talk about. I restricted my diet. I overtrained and I got down to about 185 pounds. But by that time, I was eating 1600 calories a day, working out six days a week. So as you can imagine, I started a pattern of gaining and losing, gaining and losing. So I was the classic yo-yo dieter. And when I was 40 years old, I was back up to 306, my heaviest ever. And I got really sick. I was 2021. And so I ended up in the hospital with COVID and it was a really bad case. They ended up sedating me for six weeks. I was on a ventilator.

1:26:44When I woke up, I was all out of it, as you can imagine, all kinds of drugs and whatever else. I remember them weighing me and it was like 246 pounds. I thought, well, I lost 60 pounds, but that's not the right way to do it. I woke up. I couldn't walk. I couldn't talk. I had to redo, relearn all that stuff, went through severe deconditioning, went through bouts of physical therapy. But eventually I was up and around, got back home, got off oxygen, totally healthy. In fact, I was the only one in that hospital who got that sick, who survived. The rest, none of them made it, unfortunately. And so I credit everything to God.

1:27:24I call it a miracle. Even the doctors and the nurses said, no, Jason, you're a miracle. There was one other guy who made it out alive, but he died last year from complications. And I'm really blessed. I have no lingering symptoms. I'm totally, totally healed. My lungs are back to normal. But I knew I wanted to get back in shape. And so earlier this year, I had been doing, you know, just trying to restrict calories again, trying to go to the gym. And I thought, I got to do it the right way. This isn't going to work. I don't want to. I was sick and tired of yo-yo dieting, as you guys can imagine.

1:27:59You've probably heard it numerous times. And so I remembered seeing Zuby on a show. I said, what was that show Zuby was on where he was talking about breaking the deadlift record, the women's deadlift record? And I was like, wait a minute. That was called Mind Pump. So I'm like, maybe these guys know what they're talking about because I had read books and I'd been working out my whole life. but I always fell into that pattern of under eating and over training. And so I started listening to you guys. That was April of this year. So I'm new to the show, but I love it. And I keep trying to listen to as many back episodes as I can.

1:28:35So I started eating more, which was really scary because you always think, man, I got to eat less if I want to weigh less. I started basically following your example of doing like a reverse diet. And then the scale started coming down. When I started, I was 276, and as of last week, I was 235, and I'm eating more than I've ever eaten, like 3 ,300, 3 ,500 calories a day, 200 grams of protein a day. And so far, the scale is still moving down, and my strength is still going up. I added 110 pounds to my deadlift, 140 pounds to my squat. So I'm like, I'm seeing all these things happening that you guys were talking about.

1:29:14Yeah. And I'm like, well, is this going to keep going, or do I need to change something up? I guess that's kind of my question. So far, things are still going well, but a couple of rules I'm breaking is I'm in the gym five days a week. I do three days a week on the big five, and then that's Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Tuesday and Thursday I do arms. So I'm like, well, I don't want to get to a point where I'm overtraining again. So what do you guys think? I mean, you're doing pretty good. I'll give you a program so you have one of ours. But what you're doing ain't a bad deal at all. I like it.

1:29:47You're getting stronger. You're feeding yourself. You feel good. You're doing good. Yeah. You're doing great, dude. What's the calories at right now? Do you know? Yeah, about 3 ,500 calories a day. Oh, yeah, brother. You're killing it. Yeah. You're killing it, dude. Yeah, dude. I know some people who are not eating as much as me, and they're like, how come you keep getting smaller? I'm like, you got to eat more. Yeah. But it's scary, especially when you've yo-yo dieted your entire adult life. but i'm like well i'll be eating the i try to do exactly what you guys say too i got off protein powers i'm just doing whole natural foods good shit i feel man yeah i'm like um i'm chicken beef and pork enemy number one yeah because i'm just have their carcasses in my house all the time no man you're doing great you're doing so good bro dude so good i'll send you a program i'll give you map symmetry i think you'll like it cool when you're ready you can follow that And then when you're done with that, you can take a look at some of our other programs.

1:30:46MAPS Anabolic, Anabolic Advance, Performance, Strong, Power Lift. Okay, why don't we do this since this is a good time? We'll send him the symmetry, but why don't we line up what you would put him do in the next two to three in a row? It's a good time right now. You got Black Friday going on. Everything's freaking 60 % off anyways. What would you line up his next like four programs? After Symmetry, Power Lift. I like Power Lift for you. Then I like Performance. after that then go to something like maps anabolic advanced anabolic advanced and then yeah so we just gave you like a year that'll keep you busy for the next year like that order right there yep so i appreciate it guys yeah you got it dude and keep going in the direction you're going you feel good that feel great the challenge when you're crushing it is what you just expressed am I doing enough?

1:31:37Should I do more? But if you see yourself improving in the gym especially and you feel good, lean into it. Yeah, dude, you're doing great. How's your steps, daily activity? What are you hitting on a regular basis? Do you have any idea? Well, unfortunately, I'm sitting right here at work so I sit at a desk so I'm lucky and I probably do it more than half of the day as I hit about 8 ,000 but a lot of days it's more like 6 ,500. That would be the one place. That would be your one place. Yeah. 8 ,000 steps consistently. That'll be great for your health. Yeah. Pick up the walk-in when you can. Not run.

1:32:11Not do a bunch of crazy stuff. Just add some walks whenever you can. That's it, dude. Cool. That's good because I hate running. Yeah, that's okay. No, no. Dude, you're doing really good. You just keep getting strong. You keep hitting that protein intake. You keep those calories around there. You're going to be good. Jason, what do you do for work if you don't mind me asking? I'm a financial advisor. Oh, good for you, dude. Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Maybe you don't have an answer for this, but you talked about the miracle that it was. You gave God the glory with that. And I do believe it's a miracle just from what you're saying.

1:32:41Have you put a purpose behind that? Is there something behind that where you're like, okay, this is why I was taken out of that. This is why I survived. And the only reason why I ask is when you put a purpose behind something, man, it's one of the best feelings in the world. Well, you know, it's obviously something I've been wrestling with. It's like, well, God, why did you spare me when pretty much no one else made it out of that hospital? And one of the first things that comes up is I'm a father of four. Oh, and I'm just trying to raise them in the ways of the Lord. I mean, I love hearing about your journey.

1:33:15Sal, I've been walking with Jesus for 23 years now. So it's the greatest thing that anyone could do. So that's my purpose. And I do. Yes. And I teach Bible studies. And I but the main thing is my children, you know, my family. God bless, man. I'm glad you shared that. That's more than enough purpose right there, brother. That's wonderful, dude. Good for you, man. Very cool. Good for you, dude. Yeah. Stay in touch, dude. I'd love to hear as you go through the programs. You're kicking ass right now, man. Congrats, Jason. Thanks, guys. Thanks for all you do. Yeah. You got it, man. I'm so glad he shared that.

1:33:45What a wonderful story. Well, I'm just so glad he shared that because it works. It works, everybody. Bro. He went down to 600. 1 ,600 calories up to 3 ,500 calories, dropping weight, added 100 pounds. Energy, feeling good. Leaner. Come on. Come on. And which one's more sustainable, ladies and gentlemen? Which one is the one that's going to be, he'll be able to maintain? And which one feels good? Yeah, dude, at a 3 ,500 calorie daily intake, the metabolic flexibility that comes with that. Which you don't even have to go that high. You don't even have to go that high at 5 '7", but his body is roaring.

1:34:21Yeah. You know? So it's great. Yeah, it's awesome. Look, if you like Mind Pump, you got to come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

1:34:58With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family we thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump

From the publisher

Get 50% off a Reverse Dieting Strategy call with a Mind Pump coach. (Through Dec 6th) Visit: ⁠http://www.reversedietcall.com/⁠ ** Code DECEMBER50 at checkout **

Mind Pump Fit Tip: The Do's and Don'ts of Macro tracking. (2:00)
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Glistening beard. (32:37)
Male models and awkward photo shoots. (35:57)
Not just an athleisure wear company anymore. (53:47)
An EXTREME example of how human reason falls apart without objective morality. (56:13)
#ListenerCoaching call #1 – What is the best program to add an inch to my arms? (1:03:36)
#ListenerCoaching call #2 – How can I get my body to respond? I'm not as active as I once was, and I need help with the way I feel. (1:10:50)
#ListenerCoaching call #3 – A story of redemption after a near-death experience. Trusting the process after years of living in a cycle of extremes. (1:25:29)

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