2747: The New Rules for Modern Manhood w/ Larry Hagner

24:35Okay. Whatever goal you have, I have the answers for you, but we've learned over time, like you don't want to overwhelm somebody with all that. If you want them to be successful, we're trying to create new behaviors and new things. And so we've learned like, just go do this. And you'd give them one, like, and so there's very tactical things that we've learned over decades of training so many people of like how to step them to this overall, get them into these overall behavioral changes. I imagine that's similar in the work that you do. So give me some very tactical things that I come to you like this, this, this dad whose marriage is in shambles, all the things I'm suffering, you know, I'm like the character that you described when you started.

25:16What are some like tactical things that you get me to start to do right out the gates versus saying like, oh, you need to do this, this, this, this. I'm sure you don't do that. No, I, so everything I teach is, is tactical, but I'm going to quote, do you guys know who Keith Yackey is from Married Game? No, we're losing this game, dude. I have all kinds of intros for you guys. Name dropping all kinds of names we don't know. Keith Yackey, I'm going to answer your question, but I want to talk about the elements of attraction that I think a lot of guys probably aren't aware of. So Keith Yackey, he used to be a coach of mine.

25:48He coached me for probably nine months and he runs a platform called Married Game and he basically helps men attract their wives back. And he taught me this principle, It's called the five P's of attraction. So the first P is partner. So think about this. Your wife wants a partner. She wants a teammate. She wants someone to do life with, who's going to support her, who's going to lead her and all that. And sometimes we're just not taught how to be partners. Like, as you said, you know, a lot of us don't have the blueprint. You know, we didn't have the example growing up. So we're just, we're winging it and we're just not probably doing the best job.

26:23Then there's parent. That's the second one. parent, think of it like this, you know, Jessica, Katrina, like our wives, like carried our kids for like nine months. Right. And being, you know, being pregnant, it kind of destroys your body. I mean, and they're, they're mama bear with those kids. So what they want to see is they want to see a compassionate, playful, patient dad, because nothing will compromise a woman's trust more than a guy who's unpredictable with her kids. So she wants to see that playful dad. Like you guys obviously know who Jim Gaffigan is, the comedian there, when he had the Jim Gaffigan show, there was, they were advertising it and there was these like four beautiful women coming out of a store in New York.

27:04And, and they were just like, look, you could tell they're like looking at something and they're just like, Oh my God, what is that? And they're just like hypnotized. And then it goes to Jim Gaffigan, you know, like this pale overweight guy with five kids and he's just with his kids being playful and they're like, like doing this, but there's some truth to that. You know, it's a very appealing thing when a man is a good dad, you know, and it's very attractive. And then there's producer. Producer is a woman needs to feel financially safe. Unfortunately, women are not attracted to a broke guy who can't pay bills.

27:37You don't have to have nine figures in the bank, but a woman wants a man who can pay bills and then a little more. And a lot of guys, well, what's that little more? The little more is like if, you know, junior needs a new pair of tennis shoes for 200 bucks, She's not calling you panicking like, hey, we need to get a new pair of shoes. Are we good? So she needs to feel that. Then there is power. Power is confidence. Power is not, I'm not domineering. I'm not controlling, but I'm confident, right? I'm a confident man. So those are the elements of attraction. And to answer your question, one of the first things that I'll teach a guy is how to communicate with his wife, especially when she's venting, whether positive or negative.

28:19because what a guy usually wants to do is he wants to come in and fix something that's negative. And that usually just shuts down his wife. She doesn't feel heard. She doesn't feel listened to because all she's thinking is all you're thinking about is telling me how to fix this. You're not even listening to me. So let's take a negative emotion. So if I come home and I'm like, Hey, sweetheart, how was your day? And she's like, Oh my God, today was terrible. We got a medical bill in the mail for, you know, your knee surgery a few months ago. It's$3 ,000 Colton spilled milk all over the kitchen. Glass was everywhere.

28:48And then Ethan didn't get accepted into the paramedic program. And normally, like I would try to tamp that down and be like, well, that's not that big of a deal. I mean, we got the money, we'll pay it. And, you know, spill milk cleans up. You know what? There's going to be another window of opportunity for Ethan. Don't worry about it. And that, that just shuts her down. But what I'm trying to do as a man is just take away her pain. Instead, if it's that negative emotion, I'll validate it. Be like, geez, man, like Jessica, that sounds like a really frustrating day. Tell me more about that. Like who, who wouldn't be upset with a day like that?

29:21Tell me more about that. So what I've just done is I've globalized her negative emotions. So I put the spotlight on the day, not on her. I don't know if you guys noticed, but I didn't say, man, you sound really frustrated because as soon as you say you sound frustrated, it feels accusatory and defenses go up. But if you say that sounds frustrating, that's good advice. I think a lot of anybody would be frustrated. Anybody would be frustrated. And then when you say, tell me more, that's an invite for talk to me. Right. And the more she's talking, the better. Right. Even if you're not solving anything, because a woman is after one thing, she's not after solutions.

29:56She's after connection. And if we can do that, it's so much better. Now, if she's feeling a positive emotion, you want to localize that and put the word you in it. So if she has an awesome day, you'd be like, man, you must feel so amazing. Tell me more about it. because people love to own their positive emotions, especially in an intimate relationship. And you talk about being seen and heard. When you emotionally validate a woman, whether it's a positive emotion or a negative, man, you become the most interesting and attractive guy in the room. By the way, reverse that, and it would go, right?

30:25If I personalize the negative and I globalize the positive, like think of the global, I had a great day. Well, of course, anybody would have a great day. Immediate, like it's the opposite. It doesn't validate her. what's what's what's interesting about this and women uh i think uh you know on their side they have to figure this out as well as that we just don't communicate the same we don't because if you came if i came to you or you come to me hey sal how's your day going and i told you all that stuff and then you replied man that sounds terrible tell me more like we're gonna go get out of here i don't want to get out of you just made me feel worse you know uh because that's not how we communicate at all.

31:04If I come to you, I want to hear a solution. If I'm saying anything to you at all. Yeah. So is this a typical starting point for, or the first like tactical thing you have to do? And I imagine like, there's a lot of like, okay, just go focus on that. And then waiting to hear back their situations where they had that conversation. And I, and because there is a bit of a, you know, like you have to be, you have to be aware of it. This is a positive conversation or this is a negative one and then globalize versus, I think I would imagine that a lot of guys, it takes a little bit of time to learn that skill.

31:36Yeah. Right. Cause it doesn't come natural to us. And so not only are you learning to communicate differently, but then also listen better on like, Oh, this is one of those times where I don't want to say you, I don't want to make that mistake. And so is it take guys a while? Do you find yourself having that conversation, them coming back and be like, damn it. I did this. Yeah. When they first get started. They do. I mean, like when I'm coaching a guy, especially over zoom, I'm like literally drawing this, I'm writing this stuff out. I'm like, okay, if it's a negative emotion, this is what you do.

32:03If it's a positive emotion, this is what you do. Like no kidding. Which we appreciate, right? That's what I want from you. Give me the, give me the plan. Give me the thing to do. Yeah. You had mentioned loneliness earlier. Um, I found this to be incredibly valuable that First off, I have my business partners here, which are incredible. And then I have a men's group that I started. It's a religious one, but we all get together and we work with each other. And everybody finds so much value in it. And I don't think, I think generally speaking, just looking at the data, men don't have enough good men around them that they could work with and talk with.

32:43Because if I'm around men that I respect, they can tell me things that other people can't. I can hear things from, how important is that for men to be successful in life, to have that group of guys that, no, not knuckleheads, but people that actually trust and respect that they could bounce things off of? I think that's the difference between the light and the darkness, to be honest. Ed Milet wrote a book, The Power of One More, and he wrote a whole chapter of you're three to five people in your circle, so you're guys in your faith-based group. I mean, that's gold, right? I mean, to have men like that in your life, to speak into your life like that, your group is your force multiplier.

33:18So if you have a group of friends like Lance does, right, who's speaking negativity and like, hey man, just get over it, put your head down, man, upgrow a set of balls. Like we all got these problems, like just do it. Versus like, I guarantee like when you're in that faith-based conversation and a guy might open up about his marriage or he might open up about something, I guarantee like the men who are in your circle probably just pour into that man, you know, give him, you know, the blind spots that he might not be seeing. he's going to speak truth into him he's probably going to be empathetic going to meet him where he's at all those different things is so important for a dude i have a good example of that i actually have a buddy who um his he was struggling his marriage and he was going to a friend of his uh and venting to him and this friend of his is like oh she's you know she's dumb she doesn't deserve you man i can't believe she acted that way and this that and the other and i seen him you know and i could tell something was bothering me i asked him he tells me and i know the guy that he asked.

34:15I'm like, really? You asked that guy? Like, that's the guy that, you know, he's in his mid forties, never married, has no kids. Like, uh, you know, you should probably ask a guy that you respect in that realm. And so we started talking and he talked to my other buddy and the advice was totally different. The advice was not like, and I think that's a good, that's a good gauge. Like if you come to your, a buddy or somebody with some of your challenges and if like, yeah, dude, you should leave her or you should go, whatever. It's like, maybe I should check out, to you know talk to another guy that i think that's really difficult for a lot of men at least i know in my 20s this was a big challenge for me was i was still attached to a lot of my like high school buddies and when it's tough when you build a bond going especially in a case like where my had the childhood i had and i i create i very much so relate to the um what's the goodwill hunting you know scenario like i had my the brotherhood that i had built with these loyalty yeah the loyalty my family i mean i got the loyalty tat on the side of my rib cage like that's how like that was i so identify with that and so you know i i knew the you're the average of the five guys i know how important but i couldn't see past that bond that i had because i i almost considered them family and it's like there's no way i i would cut that but when i actually looked at kind of wherever where everyone's lives were at and asked myself is that where i want to be say you know down the road and it was an easy answer no i don't i don't want to be an average of that five and so it was really difficult for me to, to, to do that.

35:43And I think a lot of times you think that when you, maybe when you start to finally realize it, which is already a challenge in itself, then you go through another thing where it's like, I gotta go break up with these guys. And no, seriously. I mean, cause when you hear that advice or like, you need to change your, your circle of five and it's like, well, you know, what am I going to do? Tell Justin, sorry, we don't hang out no more on Sundays or like, what's this going to be like? Now I'll I'll tell you the advice I give to younger guys that asked me this and what, what I'd end up doing is instead of making it into like, I have to break up with these guys.

36:14I just began filling my time with, with better men with men that I, that were seeking growth, that were doing the things in life that I want to, that I admired as fathers or leaders. And then it just became, it became less about, I need to break up with these, these guys and more of that. I'm busy doing all these other things. Do you have that a lot? Is that common? how hard is that for guys sometimes yeah that's a that's a great point so um i'll get my my circle of friends was very similar to yours you know and probably all of us like when we're in high school college like we we all have that commonality we're all away from home in college like we all have that in common we all go to the same school probably studying similar stuff so we have common ground with people and normally like our younger friends like college and high school the things that we had in common that you know the goofball things we do and that kind of thing like bust each other's chops.

37:04Like that's the dynamic that usually carries into adulthood. But once we get into adulthood and we're family men, we need, we need, we need a different type of, we need complimentary men in our life to speak into us. So like, I still am friends with some of the guys that I went to high school and college with that we don't have conversations like this, but whenever I feel like, be like, Hey man, it's Monday night football. You guys want to go out and grab dinner and a few beers, watch the game and bust each other's chops. Like that's still fun, you know, every now and again. But if I want to have a serious conversation about something going on in my world, whether it's my kids, my faith, my marriage or whatever, those are not the guys that I'm probably going to spend time with.

37:40I'm probably going to call up one of the, you know, like I'm in a, I'm in a Bible study myself, you know, and I'm like, I'm going to go to those guys for stuff like that. I probably won't go to the other guys. I think it's so tough though, because we also, there's also a dangerous part of that friend circle that I realized later that I didn't is typically the things that bond you at that age are a lot of like trauma and insecurity stuff. We share similar insecurities. We went through the same bullshit growing up. And so we, we, we bond and boy, unless you get lucky and those four guys are very growth minded, working on those insecurities and traumas and grow out of it.

38:17A lot of them get stuck in that. And it's really easy to get pulled back because there's that relatability and you're still, I mean, because all of us that have these insecurities and traumas when we were little, like they don't just go away, like they're still there. You learn to see it coming or how to work with it or deal with it or grow from it, but they never go away. It's always it's part of your history. So if you stay connected too much to that group that you, you know, like I would do justify the loyalty and the love that I have for them and not realize that a big part of the bond has a lot to do with this trauma and insecurity that we went through.

38:52that can be crippling man it could keep a man in a in a the same spot for decades if he doesn't figure that out oh i agree what's interesting oh yeah i was just gonna say we get a lot of people kind of calling in that are new dads and they're kind of they're looking for advice or just ways to to better you know get ahead of it so to speak and and you know what they can obviously the communication part what you're bringing up with with your wife is you know all that leading into it's going to be super important. But what, what are like the, the few things that you want to, to convey to somebody like that, that, that, you know, they're anticipating a, a newborn and what to kind of expect and how to kind of wrap their head around it.

39:35So what I always tell my, my new dads, um, and this, this usually shocks them because they're like, well, you know, what do I do? And this kid comes, I was like, you're married first and you're a parent second. And they're like, what? And you know, cause that can be triggering for some people. and I was like, the biggest mistake that a new dad will make and a new mom is they will slide that marriage on the back burner of the stuff. Yeah. And then the kids become that front burner and then little by little, that's when that drift starts to kind of set in little by little. It just starts to chip away at that connection in their marriage.

40:06So I always tell a guy, I'm like, Hey man, you might be a new dad, but date nights are still a big deal, man. You know, make sure that you are still connecting with your wife every single day. Right. And you, you got to have other conversations besides this baby. It's got to be about you guys as well. So I think knowing that like, this is still your first priority. Like, obviously you got this dependent baby, you know, that you got to take care of. But the other thing that I, that I think is really important too, and this is where I think a lot of young couples get, get a little spun up is you've got to identify who does what.

40:38And I know that that is not, that is not the sexiest conversation. That's not, that's not a fun one. Make it clear. But you got to make it clear because what happens is, is once, once this kid comes in, suddenly there's expectations that both people have and they're not usually sharing them and they're not being fulfilled. And then that's when resentment sets in. So like getting those roles extremely right is so critical. So like, for instance, like my wife was like, Hey, I'm, I'm going to nurse. So I'm, I'm just going to take the night shift you're working. So I'll take the night shift. So she always got up and I always, I rarely did, but that was what she, that's what we agreed on.

41:17Um, another thing too, is like, so like, for instance, when we had a new kid and like, I'd be like, well, I'll tell you what, I will do all the grocery shopping. Right. So like, just, I, I know it's like the simplest things and you're thinking like that, that, that, how does that kind of move the needle? But like little tiny things like that, who's going to be cooking, who's going to be cleaning in this, who's going to be getting up in the middle of the night, who's going to be taking the kid to daycare if they're going to do that, all these different things, because those things just stack on top of each other.

41:44And before long, you have a couple that is just infuriated with each other. I think those are huge because I think they're a bit insidious because you think of them as so small, but then I think what it does is it builds resentment. Of course. I remember this happened in Katrina and I's relationship. For the most part, I'd say we fall into a pretty traditional house. But there's something that we learned about our characteristics very different. I am a bit OCD with like how I like things clean. She could care less. You know what I'm saying? It's like, she's not messy, but she also, it's not a big deal.

42:16If the dishes don't get done right then, they'll get done tomorrow morning or whatever like that. That will drive me absolutely crazy. And so when we, before we had a kid, you know, she'd take care of it when she'd take care of it, whatever. She knew that I cared about that, but it wasn't that big of a deal. Well, when we had a kid, that became more difficult. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so that becomes more difficult for an execute that, and it becomes a bigger problem for me as more days stack up and more times consistently of it not getting in. And it's like I found myself getting so frustrated.

42:43I remember having this epiphany of like, if I care so much more about that, why am I not just taking care of it? She doesn't care about it as much as I do. I care more. So why don't I just assert myself and do that? Normally when the perfect time is right after we get done with dinner anyways, where she takes my son up to go take his bath and read to him. And originally, I would start to be kind of a part of that and feel like we both need to do all that together. But then the dishes wouldn't get done. And then I'd have resentment because it wasn't getting done. It was just like, wait a second, we could totally divide and conquer in this situation.

43:15And it became this like, it made so much more peace in the house. It made me happier, made her happier. She loved coming down from the bath and the kitchen's already clean. But it's funny how something like that just, it's so little. so yeah but it it like you said it stacks and it would be it would be something that wouldn't it wouldn't be an immediate issue it would be this low level kind of resentment building of like you know how many days in a row am i have to look at this dirty kitchen and i'm frustrated and meanwhile i'm sure she's having a little resentment of me like how much is he going to continue to make me feel bad when i'm doing all these things for our kids and it's so crazy how solving that little bit whether it's through communication or stepping up and all of a sudden that's never been a problem And it's the assumptions, right?

43:56A lot of times you think it's just going to take care of itself. But yeah, clarity of roles and just what exactly you're going to do. Yeah, that's huge. Or we'll figure it out as we go along. There's an interesting data that I saw a long time ago, and I've confirmed it now looking at more data, which connects the how well a mother can mother is very closely connected to how well she feels taken care of by her husband or the father. So for new dads, how well you are with her makes a huge impact on how well she is with the kids. How do they measure that? That's interesting. So moms in bad relationships or with absent fathers versus dads with absent relations, whatever, it's a much bigger impact on the mom than it is on the fathers.

44:41It's a big responsibility to take care of your wife, and then she's a better mom. What has coaching all these men taught you? oh man um that i can coach and sometimes i can't do it well that's a coach a lot of times i can't do it i mean we say that all the time about being you know i'm a way better trainer than i am you ever see yourself in a situation you're like what would i tell i'm uncoachable oh yeah like only like every day yeah like you and my kids they'll be like oh yeah that edge huh yeah it's like oh thanks they're at that teenage age now too Yeah. Do you, how, so I want to talk about some modern challenges that weren't necessarily huge challenges when we were maybe younger that, that now seem to have huge impacts on man.

45:26Yeah. How much does the phone make it an issue with? So phone, pornography, you know, video games, like, are these having a negative impact on, on a man's ability to, you know, lead, be a husband, a father. So the, the porn and video games for the dads or for the kids or. Yeah. For, for, let's talk about, I mean, all the above to be honest. Yeah. Um, so, you know, I, I look at just all that stuff, you know, alcohol, video games. Um, I think we all kind of do alcohol, video games, drugs, you know, like whatever it is for your phone. Um, it's usually a comfort issue and I'm uncomfortable and I want to go do something to distract whether that's porn, whether it's video games, death scrolling on your phone, looking for the next political tweet, you know, pisses you off, that kind of thing.

46:12So, um, yeah, I mean, men are, you know, and women, like all of us adults, like we're, we, we have issues with that stuff. Right. But I think if you ask most parents, we're like, man, I really don't want my kid like on their phone, just scrolling. I don't want my kid on video games for like nine hours, like stuff like that. So in order to do that, like we, we, in the book, I talk, one of the tenants of leadership is the best lessons are caught, not taught. So, um, I don't, I don't look at porn. I haven't for years. Um, I'm not so great with my phone. I'll be the first to admit that one. Like I really need to be better about that.

46:49Video games are not my thing. Um, I don't drink, I don't, I don't do drugs. Like it's just not my thing. I do like fitness is kind of like my outlet. Um, but I think for men to have an outlet, you know, is really freaking important, man. Like they've got to have self-care. They've got to have something that, that they can, that can anchor their, their stress. And I think that's really important. But I think for men, you know, um, the porn thing, I had this client, man, like I, you know, and, and I used to like porn was my vice forever. And, um, I start, I did a 90 day challenge just to see if, you know, like, let me, let me do away with this for 90 days and see what happens.

47:31I couldn't believe some of the things that I experienced. So like I found myself way more productive in the workplace. I found myself way more intentional with my kids into intimacy with my wife. And this one surprised me. I was like, everyone says sex gets better without porn. And I'm like, I don't know if that's true. It is insanely true. Like it's insanely true. So I think that that's good news. Like some of these vices that are out there getting away from them, you're going to reap some tremendous benefits, but you know, so you've got to be, you know, I had this client, like I said, one time where, you know, most guys I think don't really view porn as something that's harmful, right?

48:07It's like, I mean, I used to justify it as like, well, I don't want to bother her with, with my, you know, high drive. So, you know, give her a break. But like, um, I had this client once who went into the bathroom, had his phone on and he had no idea that it was hooked to the Bluetooth speaker in his living room. Had a nine-year-old daughter, seven-year-old daughter, five-year-old son. And, uh, the porn just came blaring through the speaker. He had no idea. He came out and his wife was like, do you have any idea what just happened? And he was like, what are you talking about? She was like, we heard everything that you were watching.

48:38I had to turn the speaker off. Your kids heard everything. And I was like, so that guy was like, so like, I think that that's, I mean, while that that's a slip up, but his kids will never forget that. His wife will never forget that. He will never forget that. So I think that's one of the things of, that's not usually on a guy's radar of like, well, what if my kids check out my browser? What if my kids pick up my phone and they see the last thing that I looked at, what if it's hooked up to a Bluetooth speaker and I didn't know it? You know, it's like, how do we have those conversations about porn with our kids if we get caught?

49:10Yeah. You know, I feel like that one is easier conversation than probably the just overall addiction to cell phone and maybe even gaming. Cause I think a lot of people would game would use the justification of gaming as their outlet. Yeah. A lot of guys that maybe don't work out or don't play sports or don't do that. They're going to go like, well, that's my, that's my outlet, man. That's, I mean, I have buddies that that's what they would, that's their time when they get to kids in bed there. It's like, this is what I do, you know, like that. And so how do you handle that? And, or is it much of a problem?

49:42Do you think that in moderation, it's not that big of a deal, or do you find that it does cause problems in relationships more so than not? That's a great question. I think anything in moderation is pretty okay. So if you got a buddy who's like getting on video games and it's really not interfering with a whole lot of stuff, then that's fine. The problem is, is that, I mean, you guys know, this is probably better than anybody. Human beings just have a really big problem usually with moderation. You know, we, uh, especially things that were made to be addictive, right. Things that bring us comfort, joy, happiness, those types of things or distraction.

50:14Like we, we have a tendency to dive into that and it's, it kind of, it's kind of sneaky how much we do it. I think that's the key right there is to, cause that's, I think that's a great way to position it. Cause I agree. I think that if you were a video game guy and you know, once a weekend you, it's when you and your best friends link up online and it's your chance to, and it's kind of killing, it's also building that relationships with close friends, but you also being honest with yourself because it's rarely that most, the guys I know that game, it's like, oh yeah, it's a part of life. It's like every day for, I mean, it was for me when in my, in my twenties, It was a every day after work, couldn't wait to get home to link up with my buddy.

50:54And we would play for two, three, four, sometimes five hours into the night. And then on weekends, you know, we'd plan a whole day around getting together and running it on all three TVs. So it wasn't like, oh, I kind of did it in moderation. It was like a part of my life. And so I think being honest with yourself is like, is this an addiction or is this something that I occasionally do with my buddies is the right way to position. Larry, what are the characteristics of men who tend to be more successful when they're tackling this issue versus men that struggle more? Do you see, like when you talk to a client.

51:26Can you tell right away? Are you like, okay, we have more hope with this guy just because of these particular characteristics? So I think, so characteristics like for guys that I've seen be successful, number one, they're coachable. So they just. They're not defensive right out the gate. They're not defensive. They're coachable. You know, they, they really take feedback. Well, so I think that's one thing. Um, they're, they're an executor. So they implement, right. Cause I hold my guy, we hold our guys accountable. You got to execute. You got to implement. If you're not doing that, this, none of this is going to go anywhere.

51:59But I also think too, that a guy needs to have patience, patience with himself and patience with whatever situation he's, he's, you know, dealing with. Unfortunately, a lot of times it's, it's not unfortunate, but like, I always tell guys, if I, if you can, if I can get to you six months before you get to me, we'll usually have a better shot at whatever you're trying to tackle. Cause usually what a guy will do is he will wait until there is an absolute crisis. You're a last resort. Yeah. Like, Hey, my wife just rolled over this morning and told me she don't want to be married to me anymore. I'm like, I wish we would have talked six months ago because statistics show that if a woman says, I don't want to be married to you anymore.

52:39I don't know if I love you anymore. I don't want to be intimate with She's already, she's been thinking that for two years. That's a long time. Yeah. And when she says it out loud, usually her mind is already made up, but you can believe it or not, you can still recover. I mean, like, like my one client did, but usually if I can tell a guy, if you can take action sooner rather than later, later. So if you see like these symptoms start to happen, do not ignore them. Like take action. Do not wait until your wife doesn't want to be with you anymore. I heard a great analogy. Do you remember the movie, My Big Fat Greek Wedding?

53:13There was a famous line in there where the mom says, yes, the husband is the head of the household, but the mother is the neck. And wherever we turn the head, that's where. And the reason why he was illustrating this, he said, women or wives will present problems. And they're real. Here's an issue. The kids are not getting enough attention, or there's too much TV in the house, or I notice you're on your phone too much or, and they'll start, and it's really just like, let's talk about this issue. And I don't know what the solution is, but I want to talk about this. And I think a lot of times men are just like, man, it's not an issue.

53:46We're fine. You're just whatever. Rather than kind of taking seriously, like, okay, she has her finger on the pulse of things differently, or maybe even more sensitively than I do. So let's take this seriously. Yeah, I think, so whenever there's feedback like that, you know, I think it's, it's in our nature to want to get defensive or say that's not that big of a deal. The thing that I always coach my guys to do, and like I said, everything that I coached to, I used to be terrible at, and I still face plant to this day, but is you've got to get really curious, like curiosity instead of usually what happens is as soon as something like that is said, it triggers defensiveness.

54:26And the other person, it doesn't matter if it's the wife or the husband, and they're not listening anymore. And then we want to defend versus like, we want to think about like, all right, let me think about this for a second. Is there truth to what she is saying? Or maybe there's a perspective here that I don't see, right? So I'll get really curious. So if Jess is like, hey, you know, I've noticed you've been on your phone a lot and you've been really distracted. And I'd be like, I'd think about that and be like, there's probably some truth to that. I'd be like, well, how's that impacting you?

54:54Like, tell me what are you seeing? And what are you feeling? Or what do you think the kids are seeing and feeling? and then she'll describe it. And I'll be like, damn, I didn't really see that. You know, I didn't really notice that. So, you know, the first question is, is there truth to that? And then get really curious and ask what the impact is. Do you ever, or have you ever had to either fire a client that hired you or tell a man that you married the wrong partner? Yeah. Both. Oh, tell me. Yeah. So, um, I I've worked with guys, you know, so like for instance, there was a woman or there, there was a guy I was working with and his wife.

55:35Um, I mean, she was, she was done, like done, done. He still wanted to work together. And I told him, I was like, there's going to be two outcomes to this, you know, coaching journey with me. Number one, you'll get her back. That's one. Or number two, you're going to realize that it wasn't the right one. And by doing the work, like usually the, I've had a handful of clients be like, she's not for me. And then once they, they, they realize that once they go through their own personal growth and they're at peace with it. And that, but I'll tell you, there are, there have been times where like I'll coach a guy and he's doing all the right things.

56:09And his wife is just being disrespectful, emasculating, just treat him like garbage. And in those times where I'm like, man, you've really have done everything here. I, do you really want to be with this person? And then usually it's their decision. And you're like, man, I don't know if I do like, you know, and they come to usually that realization. But it's their call. I mean, it's good to hear because I believe that that happens more often than I think we talk about where we people get married and they married someone kind of similar to what I was telling you about friends, how they're formed right through trauma and insecurities.

56:48You attach yourself to this partner who has similar insecurities or had similar traumas. And that person only exacerbates that thing that you haven't grown past. And it's like, it probably couldn't be a worse partnering for you. Although in the moment, because maybe lust was involved in whatever else you thought that it was, or a lot of times you see these explosions that then end up turning into like passionate sex, makeup sex afterwards. And so they, they translate that into, Oh, I deeply love this person when it's like, no, you have this very toxic relationship that you probably don't belong together.

57:24You know, what's interesting about that? I looked at this data recently and over 94 % of divorces are labeled as no fault, which is like, there's no major thing that's happening. There's no abuse. There's no, it's just, we're just like, we just drifted apart. And then when you look at the data on husbands and wives that perform, that are consistent with positive practices. I'll use one example. Couples that pray together every single night. This was a big one. I saw this study, there's a couple studies on this. Divorce rate 1%. 1%. Wow. So, and now I think what that points to is because you could get together for the wrong reasons, but who's the same person when they're 30 and 40 and 50 and 60?

58:11So there's a lot of skills and things that you can learn and work through as long as you're both willing, because nobody's the same or you shouldn't be the same 10, 20, 30 years down the road. So I just, just to give people some hope that, um, there are some positive, and I know you have lots of stories of situations where it looked like it was done and now it's way better. It is. Luckily, uh, you know, knock on wood, uh, most of the time when I'm working with a situation or a client, like from the get go, I'll be like, I think this will work out. And sometimes I'm like, this won't work out. I've been more pleasantly surprised by the times that it has worked out.

58:50And, um, it's, it's, it's been a great experience going back to what you just said though. Um, 1 % of couples, you know, that pray together, you know, we'll stay together. There's an, there was another study that was done and it kind of goes in line with what couples do right together. So everyone knows that the, the divorce rates about 51%. now. It's like literally half the people that walk down the aisle get divorced, right? They did a study about 10 years ago, thousands of couples, because they wanted to study where married couples at, the couples that actually stay together. What does that look like?

59:24And the study came back that couples live in three different camps, like, and they're divided up actually equally, which was shocking. So one third of couples that stay together can actually identify their marriage is like, this is working. This is great. Like, I love her. She loves me. we've got a connection. It's awesome. We're great parents, all these different things. And there's a common denominator there that I'll get back to. Then there's the next one third. This is the stagnant, more settled camp. And they're, it's a lot like Lance, like they're not going anywhere, but they certainly don't have a connection.

59:54It's more like just high level managerial things. Like we're parents together, we're friends and, but there's very little to no intimacy and they tolerate each other. Yeah. We tolerate each other, but we're not going anywhere. The last one third, complete physical and emotional disconnect. These are two strangers living underneath the exact same house, probably living two separate lives. And there's two reasons they don't get divorced. Two financially devastating or the perception of we got to stay together for the kids. But the common denominator with that first camp is a lot like what you just said.

1:00:23Both couples or one person will learn the skills of marriage. They learn communication. They learn intimacy. They learn how to align as parents, all these different things because they know we're not going to leave our marriage to wing it. We're actually going to do this right. Do you encourage premarital counseling or men come to you before they get married, before running into these issues? Like, hey, talk to me first and let's get these skills set before, you know, you have to come to me when the, you know, what has hit the fan. I really wish, man, I could get to more dudes before they get married.

1:00:57I feel like that would be a great offer. That would. For you to have. because I think it's a good time to do it. I do feel like this generation coming up is a more. They're more open to this. I do. And I think that if more would, had somebody who could lead that where you could teach these skills before you walk down the aisle versus walking down the aisle and then trying to figure these skills out after shit hits the fan. And again, just to offer some hope, one thing that men do pretty well, again, the data supports this, is we can be pretty, if we're focused, we can be pretty productive in one direction.

1:01:33And I just don't think a lot of men, I know most men before they get married don't have any kind of coaching like that. They don't have a group. They don't have a, there's no training. It's like your training is media. Oh, that's what marriage looks like or what my parents were like, which might not be the best example. So I can only imagine how successful, how much more successful a couple would be if a man, you know, before he got married or he's engaged and he's in a course or he's working with someone like you, it's like, all right, here's what you're going to encounter. Here's what it looks like.

1:02:04And here are the skills you need to develop and work on. So my wife and I, we did marriage coaching before we got married. It was through our church. And it was six weeks long. We had another couple that were in their 40s. They had four kids. And every time we went to their house, it was a new topic about marriage. So like one week we'd spend on parenting. The next one, it'd be sex. The next week it'd be finances, that type of stuff. And I remember being just 28 years old. And I'm like, I remember getting done with that prep. And I'm like, I feel like that wasn't enough. Like, and because what I realized during that prep is I was like, holy crap, I'm really not prepared at all.

1:02:40Like I had my assumptions and my perceptions and so did she, and they were off. Right. But those six weeks we did get some alignment, but I, I mean, we both found ourselves like, man, this needs to be a little bit more robust if there's anything like this. Yeah. And I think a good group of male friends that are older than you and experienced would probably do that for you. I think, yeah, people who are ahead of you in life, you know, it's kind of like what you were talking about. It's like the friends in the twenties, but you know, I think if you want a good marriage, go talk to somebody who's got one.

1:03:11If you want to have a deeper faith, go talk to someone who's got a deep faith. You know, it's like, go, go talk to the people that are emulating the things that you want. That's awesome. Well, I think Larry, you're the guy to go build that. So yeah, we're going to put that on you guys. So by the next time you come here again. You better have that ready. I think it's a great idea. Well, Larry, I apologize because I have a hard stop, but man, this was awesome. Great conversation. Super valuable. You've got a great podcast so people can find your podcast, the dad edge. And then where do they find you for your coaching?

1:03:44If you guys go to the dad edge.com forward slash mastermind, that that's the easiest spot for that. And then there's one other place I'd like to point the audience. If you go to the dad edge.com forward slash legendary book, that's the pre-order landing page, even though you can still buy it on Amazon, but I'm giving away two courses that I created. Um, one is marriage prep. I'm kidding.

1:04:05One is called creating more patience. So teach a guy in 45 minutes, how to just be a more patient, resilient father. And then, uh, the marriage skills, um, creating an extraordinary marriage through intimacy and attraction. Uh, there's 11 skills in there on how to be a, create a better marriage. So I'm giving those two courses away for you if they buy the book for$28 and I send it in the mail to him. That's great. That's awesome. Thank you so much. Appreciate the work that you're doing, brother. Appreciate it. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com.

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