2759: Progressive Overload, the Secret to Building Muscle and Burning Fat.

In short

Mind Pump Podcast Episode 2759: Progressive Overload, the Secret to Building Muscle and Burning Fat

Episode Summary In this episode of Mind Pump, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve into the essential concept of progressive overload in fitness, which is crucial for muscle building and fat loss. They also discuss various topics relevant to health and fitness, including the pitfalls of certain products, particularly protein powders, and share listener coaching calls to provide tailored advice.

Key Topics Discussed

Mind Pump Fit Tip: Progressive Overload (1:56)
Definition: Progressive overload refers to the gradual increase of stress placed upon the body during exercise training.
Importance: It is the most significant factor in muscle growth and fat loss.
Variability: Progressive overload can be achieved through various methods, not just increasing weights.

Buyer Beware: Organic Planet Protein Powders (26:27)
Discussion on the potential dangers and contaminants in protein powders, particularly plant-based ones.
Highlighted the importance of choosing well-tested products, such as Organifi.

Creatine for Women (30:35)
Addressed the benefits of creatine supplementation, especially for women.
Emphasized its positive effects on cognitive function and anxiety reduction.

Getting Away from the Scale (38:09)
Discussed the psychological pitfalls of relying on the scale for tracking progress.
Suggested alternative metrics for gauging health and fitness improvements.

Listener Coaching Calls
Coaching Call #1: Discussed training tips for a father competing against his daughter in pull-ups (1:00:07).
Coaching Call #2: Strategies for improving the health of a community of senior citizens (1:06:00).
Coaching Call #3: Addressed concerns around cardio for heart health and cholesterol management (1:16:32).
Coaching Call #4: Helped a listener struggling to build muscle due to mental blocks (1:33:38).

Key Takeaways

Progressive Overload: Essential for muscle growth; can be achieved through various methods (increased weights, more reps, or varied exercises).
Protein Powder Caution: Not all protein powders are created equal; some may contain harmful substances. Always choose well-tested products.
Creatine Benefits: Effective for muscle hydration and cognitive benefits, especially for women.
Avoiding the Scale: Relying on the scale can lead to negative mental health impacts; focus on performance and overall health rather than weight alone.
Community Engagement: Engaging with local communities can provide opportunities for personal trainers to grow their client base, especially among seniors.

Listener Coaching Insights

Pull-Up Competition: Recommended lighter, frequent pull-up practices and incorporating weighted training for improvement.
Senior Citizen Wellness: Focus on building community through simple walking groups and offering free sessions to encourage movement among seniors.
Cholesterol Management: Discussed the genetic components of cholesterol levels and the importance of dietary fats, along with potential supplements for management.
Body Image Struggles: Emphasized the importance of mental health in fitness journeys, focusing on strength and health rather than aesthetics.

Conclusion This episode of Mind Pump reinforces the importance of progressive overload in fitness, challenges common misconceptions about protein supplementation, and promotes mental health awareness in relation to body image. The hosts provide practical advice for listeners through coaching calls that address real-world fitness challenges.

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, callers called in and we coached them on air, but this was after the intro, today's intro, 58 minutes long. Now that's what we're talking about, fitness and fat loss and family life and current events. By the way, if you want to be a live caller on the Mind Pump podcast, send your question to mplivecaller.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors.

0:38The first one is Organifi. Today, we talked about their plant protein. It is tested thoroughly to be clean. A lot of plant proteins high in heavy metals. It's true. Probably should stay away from plant proteins unless it's Organifi. They test it. They don't just test it for heavy metals. They test them for glyphosate residues. One of the only ones that do this in the world. Go check them out. Get 20 % off. Go to Organifi.com forward slash MindPump. Use the code MindPump. Get 20 % off. This episode is also brought to you by Rock Recovery Center. This is a rehab facility that gives out a free scholarship to one of our listeners.

1:12Four months. It's a$60 ,000 scholarship. Here's how you apply. Go to rockrecoverycenter.com forward slash mind pump. By the way, every application gets some help. So if you need help or a friend or loved one needs help, go there. Also, this is the last day for the MAPS 15 Power Lift sale. So it's 15 minutes a day. It's a power lifting program. and it's 50 % off. Go to 15powerlift.com. That's 15powerlift.com. Use the code December50 for the discount. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com?

1:49I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Progressive overload. This is what the data shows consistently is what correlates to or causes muscle building, muscle growth. In fact, almost nothing correlates as closely to building muscle as progressive overload. In fact, some people say nothing causes building muscle. It's only progressive overload. We're going to break it down today, what it is, what it isn't, and what you need to think about when you get started with your training and as you continue your training. By the way, this is also the key to fat loss through the muscle building process.

2:28Let's get into it. Simple, Sal, it's when you overload progressively. Thank you. We're done. We're done. Thank you. The end. Come again. This is inspired by the live caller? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, no, this is so, so actually I've seen, there's a lot of studies now on what causes, you know, what's the thing that builds muscle, right? So there was a lot of speculation for forever that it was damage. So you damage the muscle, the muscle heals, and then it rebuilds or builds more to strengthen itself. then it was like, well, the pump, the pump might stimulate muscle growth, or maybe it's, you know, just strength to strength correlate to, to building.

3:07And what we find in the data is that the consistent application of progressively overloading the body, which can look like, it's basically more doing more, lifting more. This is what causes muscle growth. But now, obviously this can't be the only thing because you can only progressively overload for so long. Uh, I mean, if this was only the only thing that would build muscle, I mean, geez, I've been working out since I was 14. Yeah. You know, by the time I was 18, my workouts would have had to have been eight hours long and that obviously isn't going to work. So I wanted to talk about this because there's a lot of confusion around it.

3:45And you know, we had that caller who, you know, he likes to look at the data and he's like, well, you know, I need to do all these exercises and I can't fit them all in an hour and does that mean i'm not going to progress it's like no it's not quite it's not quite that black and white well you you have to understand too that there's so many i mean we did an episode a long time ago i want to say it was the eight ways or nine other ways you can progressively overload the body and i think why people get so many people get stuck here um is because the go-to move is just like sets reps weight just more everything's more more more of this thing it's like so where so if you've never done a windmill before and you pull out an exercise that you've been doing consistently like crazy and you put it in a windmill and even though maybe you're not doing as much weight but because the movement is so new and it's challenging you're progressively overloading the body in a sense so and i think that's the part that people don't understand it's like you're that was a great point this will elicit adaptation and change even though you almost are reducing volume in a sense.

4:48So it's not as clear as you just always keep adding volume, you keep adding weight, you keep adding reps all the time. There's other ways. What a great point, Adam, because there is specificity when it comes to strength. Totally. For example, like you can be super strong at one exercise, do another exercise that you're not familiar with, even for the same body part. There's some carryover, but it's not 100%, and you'll suddenly find yourself much weaker. and because it's a new exercise, you are overloading the body in a different way. That's right. I see. Yeah, and if you get too strong by progressively overloading just that one movement or those few handful of movements, it's going to take away from any other potential variable movement that you introduce.

5:27Right. The other thing about this too is that oftentimes, this is more often than not with the category of people that we'll refer to as fitness fanatics. These are people that don't miss workouts. They're consistent. They've been working out for years, okay? if this is you, oftentimes what gets your body to progress is not doing more. It's often doing less because what tends to happen, uh, through consistent training over years and years and years, especially if you love it. I know this is me, right? Is that I move away from what's optimal and I start going towards what I can tolerate. So my workouts get longer.

6:03I add more reps. I add more sets. I add more exercises. And I just really start to push the line and see how, how much my body can handle. And what happens when I pull back is I suddenly start to see results. It's too much, too much for my body, which is why this isn't the end all be all. At some point, this stops working. And then if your life changes, if the context of your life changes, more stress, diet isn't as good, not as good as sleep, well, backing off oftentimes gets the ball moving again. Well, I mean, I love to refer to the analogy you always give, which is the the sun tan one and the, like, let's say that you hadn't seen any sun and then you, you, you just say, okay, I've, I understand how to elicit change.

6:49I don't want to burn myself. I've heard what the guys have said. So I'm going to go outside every day for 10 minutes and every day for 10 minutes gets you this kind of nice light kind of brown, but you want more. I want more. The default thing that people do is go from 10 minutes to now I'm going to stay an hour in there versus if they actually just did two to three more minutes every single day, they would get a little bit more, more tan the same thing goes applied for exercise we we go okay our body's now adapted to that we got we built some muscle i want some more and so we pile on when we probably could just do five more pounds or one more rep and that's enough to progressively overload the body and send a signal to elicit change or adapt and but what people do is they tend to over correct they hit plateaus and then their their answer is more and it's not normally just a tad bit more it's normally way more yeah a lot more and then they end up sunburning themselves and then they're wondering why they're not getting any stronger or typically they start with too much like or that they don't even yeah they don't give themselves a chance to really progressively overload when they're just trying to kind of catch up and heal and uh i i find that to be the case a lot of times with new, you know, beginners.

7:59It's like, they just want to do all of it. And then, you know, add, add, add, add from there when they haven't even like really gave their body a chance to progress, you know, from the beginning. Well, that's the birth of that saying that I've said nauseam on this podcast, which is the goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. And I just, that has served not only me, but the clients that I've trained for so long of getting that through their heads. the goal is to do as little as we possibly can to elicit some sort of change like as as long as we do if we if we just add a tiny bit and you get change from it we are progressing we're progressively overloading that's all we want to do and to your point justin most people already start way too high and then when they hit a plateau they just add more and to your point really actually that person will see more results if they reduce the volume and intensity yeah so um i'll break down the data and again, the data isn't perfect because studies can only be so long, right?

8:58So they can't do, you can't fund a study that's five years long where they're really following people and tracking them and being, you know, and controlling everything. It doesn't work that way. Typically they're, you know, two months, three months long, maybe a little longer with an expensive study. The sample sizes aren't very big. You're not going to have a, you know, a three month study with 200 people. Nobody funds that, right? So you've got 12 people. And they're typically college-aged males because those are the people that tend to sign up for studies. If you offer$25 a day to come into a study, the people signing up are - They're the broke risk takers.

9:33Yeah, dude. And so that's what makes it not perfect. But what the studies show is that as you progressively overload, you get better and better results. But really, when you look at all the studies, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to break down all this. There's a lot of studies on this. I'm going to break down kind of the consensus of all the studies and then I'm going to apply experience. My experience and the experience of the trainers that have worked under me over the last 25 years in training lots and lots of different people, okay? And so this is going to make it real simple for you.

10:05If you're getting started now or if you're relatively new, for the first few years of consistent strength training, okay? So not the first few years of I go to the gym on and off, but like the first few years of really doing it consistently and right, okay? The best possible way to build muscle is to get stronger. Get stronger, build muscle. That's it. Very simple. So if you want to build muscle or you want to burn body fat through the boosting of the metabolic rate that comes from muscle building, your goal in your first few years of consistent strength training is to simply just get stronger.

10:42Get strong. Now, after that, getting stronger doesn't produce the same hypertrophy because obviously you can't just get stronger infinitely. It doesn't work that way. After that, it gets a little bit more tricky. Then you play with things like volume and intensity and increasing intensity, lowering volume, increasing volume, lowering intensity, adding variety, new exercises, trying different methodologies. but I'm going to be also very clear on this. Three years of consistent, good strength training with good diet, almost everybody will have a phenomenal physique in a three-year period. So I'm not talking about like, oh, here I am three years later.

11:24I still got a lot of work to do. And nobody can tell you a workout. If you do this right for three years consistently, you've built a nice physique. You've built good muscle, good strength. You've really changed things. And of course, this is with good diet and good sleep habits and all that stuff. So the thing to really focus on is strength. By the way, every time you add a weight to the bar, you've increased your total volume. You've progressively overloaded. Here's another way, by the way, longer range of motion. So if I'm doing a squat down to parallel with 200 pounds and I now can go two inches below parallel with 200 pounds, the exercise is harder.

12:01I've progressively overloaded. Even though the weight isn't any heavier, slowing the tempo down is another one. Or concentrating and connecting to a muscle, which this comes with experience, but the better you get, there's a famous quote that, you know, I think Arnold was the one that sent us. He said he can make one set of squats more effective than somebody else's 10 sets because of how he connects and really makes the muscles work through concentration and connecting. Now, these are all methods of progressively overloading the body. Now, you'll also hear bodybuilders talk about things like the pump and how they like the pump and how this leads to more muscle growth.

12:39and there's a lot of controversy around this. Does it actually? I'm going to tell you this right now. The pump correlates to muscle growth. I don't think it causes muscle growth, but I do think that if you're getting a good pump, what this means is - You're connected well. Well, the environment and circumstances are probably primed or in a nice place for growth. I know that. I know when I'm well-fed, well-rested - Well-hydrated. Well-hydrated. The workout is good. I'm more often than not going to get a great pump. Yeah. And so because of those things, the pump just tends to signal, not that it's the be-all end-all, but it'll signal to me, oh, a lot of things are going right.

13:15And so this is probably going to be a productive workout. I think there's more to talk about what Justin said with people overshooting the amount of volume and intensity that they apply early on. And there's another layer of complexity that I think is important to talk about because I think one of the reasons, Justin, why that happens to so many of our clients and people that we know too is everybody has that friend or person they know that can do all this, do all this. And you're not even doing as much as them. So how could I be overtraining? And training isn't isolated in this little bucket or study of like – it's it's a stress that is added to all the other stress that you have and it has to work in balance of all those other things that's right so individualized so maybe your girlfriend or buddy who has a very stress feet free job or life or no kids who is a just a goes beast mode in the gym and they see great results and they have this like and you're like i'm only doing half of what she does or what he does.

14:24How could this be too much for me? Well, they also don't have three kids, a job, a family member who just passed away, struggle with getting their sleep, name all the other things that's stressful in your life. And so context matters also in this conversation. It isn't as simple as just progressive overload builds more muscle. It's like, okay, yeah, in the context of all other things are balanced, healthy, and right, but progressive overloading the body in a situation where you're already at peak stress of your bucket does not result in more muscle. I know, Adam, I'd like to use an example because you got to a very high level competing in men's physique.

15:04You actually became a pro. You did this over the course of a couple of years, I believe. Was it a couple of years? Yeah, two years. And you were younger, right? So you're a little age on your, but at that time that was your focus. So what did your life, because you were doing a lot of volume, no doubt. Oh, yeah. Your training was high volume. Yeah. You were a pro. But what did your life look like that was outside of that? Like, you know, what kind of stress did you have in your life besides that or was that just the... Well, two big things. It was a total of almost three years. It took two years to become a pro.

15:36So in total, it was three years. In those three years, what I was doing in the first year looked nothing like the second year, looked nothing like the third year, first of all. So it was a gradual scaling of that. Again, back to my fly. And very consistent. Oh, never missed. Never missed a meal. Never missed a workout. Never missed anything. Never missed a macro. I mean, that's what that consistency was. My entire life for those three years, everything else revolved around it. You know, around my eating time, around my sleep, around when I'm going to train. I mean, every night I went to bed already knowing what tomorrow's food was going to look like, what time I was going to train, what muscle groups I was hitting, you know, all the things.

16:18And so it was a full-time job to become that. And that's not to say that there's not some anomaly out there who's found a way to work out that much and has great genetics and also works and stuff like that. But the level of dedication and focus around balancing all the rest of my life to make sure that I can push the body at that level. Yeah, because the reason why I'm saying that is someone may be, oh, cool, I'm going to train the way Adam did when he became a pro, but I got two kids, a job. It's like, forget the time factor. Even if you made the time to work out, managing all that stress on top of it, you would have fried yourself.

16:52No, no, no. It's futile. I mean, I'm even going through right now, obviously a total different phase of my life. Openly shared what I just went through in the last, you know, it's been 45 days now or so. I still am not back to normal. I still, I have yet to string three days in a row of a strong sleep score. every week i have at least multiple below 60 sleep scores which is really bad and so i'm in the phase of my life right now where it dictates if i train at all and if i do train how moderate the intensity is because i'm not stupid i'm not building any i'm not going to go build a bunch pack on it even with my muscle memory all the things i have working with me the diet's dialed in right now i'm not going to be able to build a bunch of muscle with having three days in a row of poor sleep and so why would i go in the gym and go crush myself then i'm just putting myself at risk of probably getting sick going backwards i'm seeing and so i'm even having to balance that right now and so that's just that understanding i don't think a lot of people take that in consideration they look at said friend who's doing x y and z or says oh this is what i did to get this way and then they try and take that apply or maybe they read the studies that say progressive overload elicits this and take training to failure does this and if you just did like and then they just go try and apply that and they don't consider all those other factors that's going on in their life and that training as healthy and as good as for us is another stress and you have everybody has a stress bucket and once it hits top you're not going to get the body to respond the way you want to once it starts over spilling yeah the other thing too i like to point out with uh the data is um because you'll find studies that show wow look this group who did the most amount of volume, built the most muscle.

18:39And again, it's, these are short studies. They're not, you know, keep them on going. Let's see what happens type of deal. But what the data shows too, is that two days a week, two days a week, right? Two full body workouts a week done properly will get you 80 % of the, of your total potential. So in other words, picture the best body you could accomplish through strength training, 80 % of the way there is two days a week, which would take you a while. Like you could do that for a couple years, three days a week will get you 90 % of the way there. The other 10%, now you're squeezing in a couple more days a week.

19:13And most people don't care at that point, you know, you get 90 % of the best shape you could ever get. Uh, and when you, when you, you know, put that against what that takes and how much dedication effort, most people are super happy. I'll use Doug as an example. When he hired me to train him uh years ago and when you work with me doug you were late 30s oh no no late 40s late 40s sorry late 40s when you guys first started yes yeah yeah yeah forget doug's he's 107 right but no he was in his late 40s doug hired me and we trained together for like a year two days a week yes it was two days a week of strength training in that year his deadlift went from now of course at that point he was he had done some working out so but we got his deadlift went from like 150 to 405 in a year do you remember that's two days do you remember at what point when you were because i know he was a smooth talker from day one and you were like giving him pumping his tires with the tony robbins bullshit and all that stuff like that that was but but but so but i i know because you did your own reading you've done your own like trial and so that do you can you draw back to that and go like when, cause I always love like when, when you unlock it for the client, when they're like, Oh shit, this is the right method.

20:26Cause I'm sure you were skeptical. Yeah, I was. When I went into it, I thought I knew quite a bit about lifting. Yeah. And, uh, when he said we're going to work out a couple of days a week, I, I questioned that in my head, but I surrendered to the process because. How smooth of a talk. Yes, exactly. This guy sounds. He actually tried to pay me to train him more than two days a week. Yeah. He would have, he would have paid me. And I said, no, no, Two days a week. Yeah. But, you know, as time progressed, you know, it's like, okay, I'm lifting these weights. I think I can do more. And it was very, you know, progressive as we're talking about here.

20:59And then little by little, I started to see, wow, things are actually starting to work. Was it a lift? Was it a look? Which one was it? It was like, did you look in your mirror and go like, oh, shit. It was a combination of those things. One in particular was a deadlift. That was a lift I had actually never really had done much prior to meeting Sal. But the deadlift, I was just like going up, up, up, up all the time. And then I could see my body starting to change. And it's like, okay, all right. This guy must know what he's talking about. I trusted him and I'm glad I did. Then he was like, let's go build a business.

21:30That was pretty much how it went down. Let's go build a business into the world because this changed my life. I'm sure that's exactly what it was like. Exactly what happened, yes. You're like, there's got to be a million people just like me who's done their own research, tried all this, applied all the science to all the things that you thought were right. You know, a majority of my clients, two days a week were my very dedicated clients. A majority of my clients were one day a week. It was one day a week, and then they would be active throughout the week. And everybody was skeptical. But they all got great results.

21:58One day a week, everybody will get you like 70%. By the way, you can do a lot with that. It's not like you do the same thing every time. You're going to get stronger, and you're going to progress in that workout. It's just people think that they're going to go, oh, okay, I got to do strength. I got to do four days a week. I got to do five days a week to make this work. And the most important part of that is that it's such a low barrier to entry, too. It's just like, just do that. And then let yourself see the great change, feel the great change from that. And then, say, a month, two months goes by, and you're like, yeah, I would love to do another day.

22:28Cool. Add another day. And what a great way to progressively over it. Naturally, just another day is already a significant amount of volume you've increased right there. And then watch how long you reap those benefits. But we don't do that. We're emotional creatures. uh we're driven by our insecurities it's the uh it's the doctor scare it's the spouse comment it's the person teasing me you know you're also adam you're also watching so much of fitness media is communicated by these uh maniacs that they don't understand it for themselves and so they communicate it through that like no beast mode go for it get out this is what i do and it's like well i think that's you're doing too much i think that's closely connected to the the insecurity totally said we're insecure i see this this this body that i want to i want to look like and he or she is saying things that get my juices flowing and motivate me in the moment and then that makes me take action and the things that they're saying are things like there's no days off and you got there's enough 24 hours in the day and you got you know i'm And you're telling yourself, like, yeah, I need to be that guy.

23:39We've always equated being obese to laziness. And so I think that that thought process makes its way into fitness. It's like if you're not doing a whole lot, you're doing this all with a lazy attitude, and you're not doing enough. And then it's just like you got more, more, more. Well, I mean, if you listen to the podcast, when we have callers that call in, a majority of them, we scale them back. yeah a majority of them we don't tell them to do more yeah most of them it's like no you're actually doing a little too much back off and then call back and what happens when they come back i didn't believe i mean i have a i have a lot of a lot of patience and empathy for the for the client and so that because the the thing that always resonated with me is that everything else in our life serves us to approach it that way yep like if you want to be a master at playing the japanese flute the more you do it the more you practice the more hours put in the better you're going to be at you want to be great at the guitar the more you know i'm saying the more hours you do you more you want to be great and reading knowing studies like the more you do it the more like everything else in our life we're we're we're rewarded and served for the beast mode for the more we do it and and unfortunately uh human physiology and that's the limiter is not is not doesn't work that way no it's a limiter and chicken balance i would say that applies but just use it to apply it to consistency so yes it's true yeah that attitude works but use it in apply it to a consistency with your two or three days a week of strength training yeah not to the i gotta go so hard i can't even move so i i like where you're going is like a discipline your strategy this is how i like to communicate to my clients because i like what you're saying too because it's like every day i'm thinking about doing something for my health and fitness there you go What it's not is training in the gym really hard every day.

25:27Sometimes it's resisting from that thing that I wouldn't normally go eat. Right. Or it's, you know what, I wouldn't normally go for it. Which is hard enough. Right. You're repairing this relationship. I'm going to go for a 20-minute walk right now. I'm going to read that health article today. I'll do a little stretching. I'm going to try this healthy recipe I've never tried to cook for dinner. So every day I'm going to apply something towards health and fitness. What it doesn't look like is beating my body up every day. it is you know that's only going to be one to three times a week the other days are making better food choices reading content that's related to that moving going for a walk choosing to wash the car instead of outsourcing that like those are all decisions and effort towards your your health and fitness goal but it's not beating stressing the body out like exercise can be so i think so i love that attitude of yeah you still apply that same level of consistency and discipline, but you can apply it to the stress part, the exercise part, because that will end up shooting you in the foot.

26:28100%. All right, I'm going to change directions because I've had this particular conversation I'm going to get into now with a few people around protein powders. These people, friends of mine, who have an intolerance to dairy, and so I'll refer them to different kinds of protein, and they were interested in plant proteins. And I said, look, avoid plant proteins because of the studies on plant proteins almost always show a high heavy metal content yeah the only one that i will stand behind uh is with our partners organifi because they test them yeah they test everything all the testing they test them they test them for glyphosate residue so they go above and beyond yep but plant proteins in particular organic plant proteins because of the types of pesticides they use tend to build up heavy metals so when you look up studies on heavy metal content and protein the worst are plant proteins so i was going to ask you that it's because of the organic type of pesticides they're using that carries a lot of aluminum it builds up heavy metals in the soil yeah so organifi tests everything they're like what do you think is very clean what do you think is worse what do you mean didn't glyphosate versus heavy metals yeah oh heavy metals will kill you oh yeah so you're you're trading you're trading so okay yeah but like how in terms of the amount uh that you'd receive from heavy metals that may trace amounts that were in there versus glyphosate you got to see the studies dude is it some of these are like 10 000 percent higher than yeah like some of these studies on heavy metals in in plant like they're like to the point where they're putting out warnings it's also a thing too, Sal, that a lot of people that use them, a lot of people that like shakes or use shakes use them daily.

28:13And it's also one of those things that does your body not detox that or get that out? You know how hard? Lead, cadmium, arsenic, mercury. They get absorbed by the soil plants. And what happens is you concentrate them. So you have to break down a lot of plants to get protein. So whether it's rice protein, pea protein, pumpkin seed or whatever, they concentrate it which then concentrates the the heavy metals so if you go with the plant protein you need to be you need to make sure that they test test test test test that they're that they don't have i'm assuming because organifi is is so good about this they're taking it through another filtration process or is it just where they where they source they source and they test yeah if it gets if they see anything they'll kick it back so they're really really good about what they do.

29:05And like I said, they also test for I had this debate with a marketing buddy of mine who was like, it makes no sense to me why Mind Pump doesn't have a supplement company and this and that. And I'm like, dude, you're tripping, dude. I don't want anything to do. I said, that would be Sal's dream. I said, it would be such a massive headache for us. And then he starts telling me these other companies that are making all this money. And I just started laughing at him. I said, bro, first of all, stay in your lane. I know you're a marketing guy, but now you're in my lane here. I said, This is not, you know how, if you have good profit or good product that actually sources, that tests, that actually has all the right stuff in there, it's not high margin.

29:46If they're making four, if you're telling you, I don't even know who the brand is you're talking about. You're telling, you're talking about 40, 50 % margin. I'm telling you dog shit. Yep. I already know that. You don't even have to see the brand. You can't. In order to stay competitive at the price, you're looking at 5 % margin. Yeah. You pixie dust. Yeah. Yeah. Five to 15 max. 15 is if you're a Russian. Yes. efficient efficient good like like so these these these supplement companies aren't it's super competitive and then the ones that are super profitable let me tell you they're cutting corners they're not doing the third-party testing they're not giving a shit of all this stuff is in that's how they can that's how they compete make it so much cheaper and it's like so if you're trying to sell me taste better on why mind pump needs to make a supplement brand because you know you you market for somebody who makes 40 50 i'm telling you though don't even tell me the company because I'm going to talk shit about them because I already know the trash.

30:35Totally, totally. Speaking of supplements, you guys, this is so crazy to me. So we've been talking about, you can go all the way back to 10 years ago, some of our first episodes. We've been preaching about the benefits of creatine since then. And back then, nobody was really talking about creatine except for the fact that it builds muscle. But we were preaching it's good for the brain, it's good for the body, it's a health supplement. 10 years ago, we predicted this was going to be the top longevity supplement. so and now i think everybody knows this like now everybody's talking about creatine how good it is for your brain for your body for your organs for your health for your skin longevity well the it turns out that women in particular benefit from creatine which is wild because that's the demographic that has been the slowest to adopt it mainly because it's been marketed to as much it's because it's a muscle building supplement and when you take creatine your muscles get more hydrated, you might see the scale go up a couple pounds.

31:30And so of course women, they'll freak out over it. Or you get the myth that it causes bloating, which it doesn't, or water retention, which it doesn't. It just hydrates you. And so it scares people, right? Especially women, if they see the scale go up, but it's lean body mass and it's muscle hydration. But anyway, a couple of studies came out. One was on women who suffer from anxiety. 50 % of them just through supplementing with creatine saw a dramatic reduction in anxiety. a healthy supplement reduced their anxiety women who had irregular periods a significant percentage of them saw their period regularity improve by supplementing with creatine now this all has to be connected to muscle because muscles connected to hormone regulation every cell operates off of ATP all cells in the body I mean no I don't think any of us if you were to separate men and women and we had to bet our last dollar on who creatine would benefit more would not say women.

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32:31I would have guessed that. That's likely to eat meat. Right, just from the simple, not even going another layer deep in what creatine does on an ATP, ADP level, but that almost all of my clients underate protein, my women grossly underate protein. And that's where you get creatine from. And that's where you get creatine from. So that's kind of like, yeah, here's your sign. Obvious. Well, it's like vegans and why it improves their cognition. Oh, yeah. You see literally measurable IQ boost in vegans who take creatine. You can buy vegan creatine. You probably can make the argument, too, that female vegan even more.

33:07Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Most benefit. I can't even believe. I just remembered. I had a female client that was vegan. Now, I did eventually get her to eat eggs. I've talked about her before. Creatine was the other one. I had her start taking creatine and she was like, what are you giving me? She's like, this completely changed my life. It feels so different. And I'm like, now back then I was, this was like kind of like my theory. Yeah. I remember same thing. I had a friend of, of the family and I kind of did that with, and it was like, they could retrieve words again. It was like one of those things you, you talk to them and then they're constantly trying to think of that word, but it's like all of a sudden now.

33:42Have you guys seen this? The studies on sleep deprivation? This is wild. I don't need to see this. You can pretty much erase the effects of sleep deprivation on cognitive tests. So people take cognitive tests. You can see, like, really sleep-deprived. With about 20 to 25 grams of creatine. So high dose. High dose. Oh, that's actually, I should do that. You should. Now, I'll tell you this. I'm not high dosing. Don't take a high dose all at once because you'll get diarrhea. I know. But if you take five grams, like, four times a day with your poor sleep, I bet you would notice a huge difference. I've done both.

34:20I've done high. You know, it's interesting. Oh, diarrhea. Dude. Real bad. I'm going to mess with that, actually, because I haven't been going a high dose. I was literally just making a comment to Katrina last night because she was asking how I was doing it. I was like, man, you know, I can. I said, I got a great workout in. My diet's been dialed. I've had two or three good days of sleep, but I still just feel cloudy. That's the only way I can describe it. So it'll be interesting to see. I'm going to try that. Yeah, so just like throw five grams with every meal. Yeah, yeah. I haven't pushed the big 20-gram thing.

34:44so it saturates the muscles very quickly it takes much more to get to the brain so it's funny that you say that because that highlights that there was a little bit of truth and value to the old loading phase well the loading phase they wanted you to get through the product well it gets your muscles saturated with creating like a day or two faster so there's some value there I mean yeah there is exactly we talked a lot of shit about it and it was a big joke. I mean, that happened in Celltech days, and then there was a big marketing decade that ran against that, which is this is all. Do you guys remember the first time you took creatine?

35:26Do you remember? How long ago was it? Oh, man, that was like when I was a sophomore in high school. Oh, so you started early too. You started a little bit earlier than me. I was like a freshman in junior college. Wow, okay. So I started, I was probably 94. Oh, my God. Yeah, and I took Phosphagen. Yeah, yeah. Phosphagen and then Phosphagain. Yeah, I took Phosphagen. And I remember - So I found Phosphagen - And I got stronger. I found Phosphagen after Celtec. Yeah. Celtec was first for me. Oh, God. Then I found Phosphagen and then Phosphagen HP. And I took Phosphagen HP for, I don't know how long.

36:01Do you guys know how expensive it was back then in 94? Super expensive. Bro, it was a tiny bottle. It looked like a little supplement bottle. And it was, see, 90 - This was back in 94, 95. oh it was like 60 bucks back then 50 60 bucks back then for like 25 servings that's right yeah yeah no i remember yeah i was working i was washing dishes at a pizza restaurant i had to buy i told you guys remember i told you guys we used to work in a mixing factory and we had a when my boy grabbed a five like come on drum that was like bro that was like gold gold gold Tony Montano. It wasn't me. It wasn't me.

36:38This is not a story about me stealing that. Did you sell some of it? No, I did not. I definitely took some of it, though. You thought of it, though. Bro, we got this. I mean, it's crazy. You came home with a Q of creatine. Since we're talking about creatine, I do want to tell the audience this, though, because it is popping up everywhere. It's in everything. you still one go with a company that's reputable that's source and trusted I know we shouted out Organifi just recently they're a trusted source and or simple creatine monohydrate plain nothing that's the cheapest the best it is be careful because it's becoming so popular because of the point that you're making that we called for a very long time everybody knows that and so you're going to get all these companies that are going to pixie dust it in all these products so they can say you're getting that too to to add value so they can then now charge you for x product that would normally be three dollars is now going to be five dollars and you're going to justify it in your head because you go well it's got a serving of creatine in there plus that and so just buyer beware that uh don't just fall for the you know everything's just like the CBD game.

37:55You know what I'm saying? Like every product had, once everybody was on to CBD has benefits. CBD has benefits. Now you get like CBD and everything, you know? CBD shoes. They actually sold CBD shoes. I'm not making that up. I swear, I swear. How's that work, dude? Yeah, why? Anyway, did I tell you guys, did I bring this up already that what I'm doing with my scale? I might have told you guys this off air. Your scale? My weight scale at home. Did I tell you guys this on the show? No. That I'm getting rid of my scale? So I'm sitting there. Get off me, Teddy. You know, you have these moments, right?

38:24And, you know, I started that series. And part of it, you know, it's my faith, but part of it was like trying to tackle this idol of fitness that I have. And I was sitting in bed and I'm just like, you know, every night I pray. And, you know, and so my wife and I pray together. But then I laid in bed and I prayed some more. And I'm like, you know, this is interesting. It reminds me of my clients. I used to have clients that would, they would lie to themselves so that they didn't have to tell me the truth. Like an example would be, uh, they'll, they'll write their food logs out, but they wouldn't count the snacks at the grocery stores or walking through the aisles.

38:58And almost like they would try to lie to themselves about it, that it was in there. And so I'm sitting there and I'm like, you know, and I'm just kind of, it's dawning on me. Like the advice I give to people all the time on the show. And one of the pieces of advice I give is to throw away the scale, throw the way, throw away the scale. And I weigh myself every day. Every day you weigh yourself? Every, every morning. When was the last time? What's the longest you've gone not weighing yourself? And when was that? It's been a long time now. Really? Yeah, it's been a long time. Holy shit, bro. And you know what it is?

39:29I didn't know that. This is the lying to myself part. Yeah, it totally is. The lying to myself part is I don't think about it. Of course, of course. It's like I go to take a shower, hop on the scale. Yeah. But it affects me for sure because if I see it go up or down, my behaviors will change a little bit. Of course, of course. Okay? And then I'll compare the mirror to it or whatever, right? and so I'm like of course like I didn't even dawn on me that this is a problem and I'm like you know I need to get rid of the scale so I stop paying attention to the body to my body so that's gonna be phase one so I already told my wife she got rid of the scale so I don't have a scale and what's funny too is she got rid of the scale and yesterday was the first day without it and I'm already like I wonder what I weigh and I know we I know we have a scale here and so I'm not gonna weigh myself here either because I thought to myself even I could weigh myself at work I'm like what am I doing so getting rid of the scale is going to be number one number two Justin weighs himself once a decade only when somebody asked me to once a decade the last time we weighed was when both of us got on the scale what were we doing, why did we even get on there I think it was before a series or something I don't remember somebody asked I don't ever get on the scale which is crazy because I'm also the guy who would weigh three times a day when I was tracking and stuff like that.

40:46But again, I was lying to myself. Of course you were. And the reason was... There's no reason, bro. Well, obviously. Okay, listen. You're going to tell me. Listen, there is no reason you should ever weigh your food or weigh on a scale. You. I'm not saying to other people. You have no need to do either one of those. So if you're still weighing your food or you're still getting on the scale, that's crazy. I don't weigh my food, luckily. But I've never done that. But I don't want to get into that either. but it's interesting because I just, I was lying to myself and I'm like, you know what? I'm like, I got to break.

41:19This is going to be the starting point. Cause I'm like, I want to fix this problem. And that's all I keep saying to myself, fix this problem. I got to start with step one. Step one is get rid of the scale. I think step two is going to be stop studying myself in the mirror. Step three is going to be maybe change how I, the, the, the, what I wear while I work out. That'll be the next one. I don't know what step four is going to look like. Probably like have one of you guys give me a workout plan and just follow that or something just let go have you thought about getting back to your jiu-jitsu because i bet that was one of the better times with that relationship i bet it was it was because you were so focused on your art and craft of that you're not really tripping if your scale goes up or down two or three pounds you probably ate just for performance so you felt good i would think that that was probably one of the in relation to that health that was probably the healthiest uh in terms of my relationship to fitness was was jujitsu do you dabble with the idea of maybe doing that again me i mean i'm so far away from it right now mentally that no so that's why i said step one is a scale get rid of the scale and i'm just not going to step on it for a long time that's the goal i mean any uh any way we can help other than just teasing you that's perfect yeah that's all i really know how to do i love it when you guys are great about that the lid is off just make fun of me all the time so that's step one that's what we're doing now and so it was funny too because it's so stupid it like it's like it's like you know i felt i felt like this epiphany i'm like you idiot you tell everybody to do this can't believe you didn't even think about it yeah yeah i mean sometimes it's like that i mean i i still relate to you with that because we were we were so we're so similar yeah i came from that place 100 but i do feel like before i went into bodybuilding though i had i had wrestled that dragon or that demon already so like it was it was fun but it was really easy to also transition out of it what helped for me was like that's why i think the jiu-jitsu thing is such a move because we have these brains where we can go so deep into something that we're all right and when it's something that's like doesn't serve you to be the big buff jack guy all those things like that like it just kind of forces that when i went to be the mobility guy i just served that so well and of course i had a little bit especially with social media at that time when we were really engaged yeah you know people were like oh where's adam's muscle and like you know so there was a little bit of you know a little bit of that that but it was good for me i thought too it was like i you know so there was a part of me that i i remember saying like like all right go ahead keep it coming because i need to be okay and that not faze me why people are saying that because i know what i'm doing right now and so then i think once i got over that hump then it was like easy to not go back totally all right i got a conspiracy about the bermuda triangle justin did you hear what the new thing about the the bermuda triangle no but i have something about egypt after that I have a Bermuda triangle.

43:58Wait a minute. Is it connected? So Bermuda's waters, I'm going to pull this up. There's a giant structure that's unlike anything else on Earth. So there's a new study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research Letters. Scientists believe they have discovered the reason why Bermuda never sank after its volcano shut down more than 30 million years ago. It's a comet. Yeah, no. There's something under the water that they're locating. They found an unusual rock layer below the oceanic crust under Bermuda, pushing the island up so it's a layer uh it's a 12 mile thick rock layer that they've never seen anywhere in the world which is cool because there's so much surrounding the bermuda do they test it for its magnetism no that's cool they should do that yeah you know uh i was listening to an interview since you brought up bermuda triangle it was this uh billionaire lawyer guy started off as a lawyer and then he just uh created all these other crazy businesses and One of the ones that he did was he realized how he – the way the story goes is he was visiting San Francisco one time with his wife, and they wanted to go to Alcatraz.

45:05And they went to go to the line, like, oh, no, it's sold out. Well, can we go tomorrow? Oh, no, it's sold out for the next couple weeks. He's like, oh, my God. Then he's like – he greases the person like hundreds of dollars, like, come on, get me into this place. We're like that. and realizes like, man, how obsessed we are as Americans with crime. Yeah. And so he decides to build this crime museum. And he builds this crime museum and it actually doesn't do very well. It's in like a traditional kind of building and it's barely breaking even and stuff like that. And then his lease comes up. The guy doesn't want to renew his lease.

45:39And then basically he loses all the investors, loses things like that. But his wife's like, so what are we on to next? and he's like, no, I don't want, I think this idea was right. I think we just did it wrong. I think we should do. So he comes up with this idea to build this structure, and the story behind it is that the building went through the Bermuda Triangle and it flipped the building upside down. And so it's like, you can look it up, I believe. It's an upside down? Yes, museum. It's an upside down museum. I feel like I've seen this. Is this in Florida? He's got a few of them now. Remember we're in Florida?

46:10They're all his. There was an upside down. So it's an upside down crime museum. You could probably Google that, Doug, and get the name of it. I know he's got at least three to five of them now that just prints money. He makes millions a year just off of people. And he goes, it's so easy to maintain because once he, the few million dollars to build the structure, to put the things in there. He's got OJ's Bronco in it. Yeah, yeah. And so he's bought these things that obviously probably cost him a lot of money to put them in there. But he's like, it doesn't cost anything really to maintain it other than cleaning it, somebody to open it, and sell the tickets to it and stuff like that.

46:42and people go in there and stay for three hours or whatever. Yeah. But the fact that it's upside down, it draws this attention to it. Alcatraz East Crime Museum in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. That's the guy. That's definitely the guy. I don't think that's the upside down one. So maybe there's other ones that he has. They call it dark tourism. So that is, yeah, I guess we are so, I didn't realize how obsessed we are with that. There's people that go to these, I don't know where it is, but it's where they do voodoo and they practice it and they actually tour through that and watch like witch doctors do all this stuff.

47:16And I'm like, wow, that's crazy. Yeah, dude, what do you do? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe go Bermuda Triangle Upside Down Museum. Because I know that's how he told it. Like that's the story of how it got upside down. And so you walk in and you go in and you're on the ceiling. And then you go through some portal that kind of like flips it. Oh, that's cool. And it has some storyline. I mean, I only remember this because you brought up Bermuda Triangle, and I know that was part of the story. You know, when I was a kid, I used to go to the library, the school library. So this was in sixth grade.

47:45I guarantee you, Justin, you've read these books. There was a series of books. They weren't that thick, but each one covered, you know, one was on Bigfoot, one was on the Mothman, one was on Bermuda Triangle, UFOs. And they were just, I'd go in the library and just take these out and just read about them. Of course. Is that it right there? That's it right there. Wonder Works Museum. There it is. He owns all of what you've looked up. It looks like I recognize something like that in Florida. Yeah, he's got a few of them. Isn't that cool looking? That's very cool. I know. And then just that drew so much more attention, and then people thought that was really interesting.

48:20Yeah, so dude, there's so much still undiscovered in Egypt, especially where the Great Pyramids are. So you know the recent findings where they did that deep penetrating radar even found underneath it. However, I guess like even there's this other information that they've had for a long time that they tried to get all these permits to go exhume and dig and make an archaeological site, but we're blocked because it like doesn't fit the narrative for Egypt's Zahi Huas, and they kind of blocked the whole thing. But apparently like there's a whole labyrinth like out in front of of the the main period of giza uh pyramid in giza and it goes all the way like four layers down and so wow dude it's it's so i guess if you read back about atlantis like it qualifies a lot of these like it looks like they are library chambers and also there's this big huge um it's like a it's a it's a ring structure so like way down at the bottom there's this huge ring structure um that looks then they're like speculating what that is like it's a gate or something yeah down there that's cool yeah i was like tripping out on that i had no idea i've seen enough movies don't open it now for the average person who's not like so into this stuff like they're just like oh cool neat we found something on the ground the thing that makes this so interesting and controversial right justin is that how it really kind of disrupts a lot of how we've told history and the timelines.

49:58And so that's where all the conspiracy theories is because it really messes with what we've all been taught. Like this is our timeline. Because they've even found like hieroglyphs of the Egyptians describing in this layer previous civilization that they do a head nod to, which is the theory. It's like Graham Hancock and all them kind of like point to that it's a lot older than even the Egyptians. And so that's why they don't like it because it's very Egyptian-centric. And so if you go against that narrative, it's like they don't even want to entertain it. Have you seen – I think we might have talked about this before.

50:34Have you seen those ancient, like, sculptures or rock carvings of, like, people on dinosaurs? Have you seen these? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're old. And it's like a stegosaurus or a brontosaurus, and they're, like, riding it. Well, you see it in Gobekli Tepe. there's a few like there's a pterodactyl and there's also like another like stegosaurus like carvings and you're like wait a minute and there's people and everything like alongside them carved and you're like you know of course like are they pretty clear though yes it is pretty clear look up look up like uh are they uh what's that place called a blackie gobekli teffy Okay, whatever.

51:14Look up dinosaur carvings, old dinosaur carvings. Make him spell Blukiteki. Yeah. Blukiteki? You know you made up that word, Jason. You just threw it up. I almost, dude, I'm so mad at myself. I had a great joke earlier in this podcast. I didn't, like, throw it out because, like, it was too late. Now's your chance. Yeah, no, you said mosh, and then you corrected yourself. And, like, you're like, yeah, the great Arnold was going to, like, quote. And then I was like, it's not the length and the size, but it's the mosh and the oosh. and I was like oh oh but I was so late did you say mosh I didn't even hear you see look at that that's a stegosaurus bro right there oh yeah see that's a stegosaurus click on that oh yeah that's definitely a stegosaurus that's a stegosaurus come on yeah so it's oh they're saying it's a rhinoceros I don't know you've seen a rhinoceros with stegosaurus bones on his back I don't know if it's a hoax or not oh please yeah yeah they're lying to us of course they're gonna say that yeah everything points back to the great flood dude yeah culture all right i gotta uh i've noticed this interesting trend that i want to kind of point out before it gets real popular so and i might have talked about this in a previous episode but i'm seeing more and more of it now when you go through when i go through my if i go through my feed right the algorithm of you get ads everybody gets ads on their feed pay attention yeah because almost every ad now is ai yeah none of them are real anymore they're all ai every single ad and it makes sense you can make them fast they're cheap they're effective they're people oftentimes they're people and what they're already doing and i i thought this already so okay so all ads are going to be ai pretty soon people are going to want ads that look authentic yes and so what all these ai ads are looking like now i'm seeing a lot of fake podcast ai ads so it's people talking like this we're credible and they're selling a pod they're selling a product and it's because whenever you see people talking on a podcast it automatically appears to be who's that one idiot but they're fake they're all fake who's that one idiot that like works with dr drew that was like the shredded guy that's right there are v shreds v shreds using that joe rogan the joe rogan curtain behind him yeah like a total hack yeah no yeah i've told you guys before that there's like like a total like business genius behind him right like he's not the yeah he's an actor dude yeah yeah he's just like the face of the brand and stuff like that there's like a real business guy just to you adam because you're the you're the business guy right i feel like uh this will this will make people this will make people like us more valuable in the future for ads because people already know we're real and for people looking for authenticity because at some point so i had a really good conversation i wish i could shout the guy out because he was a really interesting interesting dude we hit it off that day but i remember i told you i went to her mosey's school thing right yeah like we we won that award for one of the times so we're in this place where there's 50 of the top producers in in the school app right so everybody in there is doing something cool right got a good successful business and uh i told you that the the only older guy came over and like like you can see you and him yeah yeah you can see like beelined over to me and i was just like he totally he doesn't know who i am At first when he was walking up, I was like, oh, maybe he's a MindPump fan, right?

54:28Because somebody else was a MindPump fan. So he'd go walking up and I was like, oh, no, he's coming up just because I'm the other older guy inside here. So we started talking up about his business and stuff. And he's hardcore in the AI world. And his school is all about teaching ordinary guys like us how to use AI then to build software to do things like that. And it's really interesting. He's having a lot of success doing it. So he's been doing that for decades. He's been in that space. So very, very well-versed. So what a great, we're having lunch together and talking. And I'm like, hey, man, what do you think about the dead internet theory?

55:04And he's like, ah, no, no, no, no. And I was like, really? I was like, because I was sold on that for what the point you're making right now. Like, we're going to wake up real soon here and all this damn concept. It needs to be artificial. Yeah, I mean, it's happening fast. Fast. Real fast. Every ad, I'm telling you. Yeah, I feel like the last time we had this conversation, it's already multiplied by crazy, right? and he goes no he goes there's already smart businesses that are correcting for it and going other way is uh people more than ever are going to yearn for authentic real real real people real connection uh they they're going to want to know for sure that's a real person and and i don't care how good the ad is if they're they can't confirm like i know that's a real person or like it's going to turn them off.

55:50That's what I was thinking. I thought that was really interesting because I was on the other side of that argument. Here's why I think that's cool because AI is so good, you won't be able to tell by looking at the ad. It'll look like a real person. You'll need to have that built-in relationship. You'll have to know, oh, I know that's a real person because they've been around for a while. I've met Sal and Adam and Justin in person at an event and I know that's them. You know what I'm saying? I definitely think that that's going to take it a layer deeper, Sal, is I think those in-person type things are going to be even more important because I think the AI actually will get so good, and we've seen bad examples of this of us.

56:26How many times have you already had to, like we sent a cease and assist to people who are using you and your voice to sell a product? To sell a crappy product. So they already can use our imagery, our face, our sound. And it's not, I mean, it's choppy right now. It's not great, but I mean, come on. At some point, it's going to be perfect. Yeah, at some point, it's going to be great. And then you have to ask yourself, when can our own people even distinguish which is the difference between you selling some bullshit product. The only thing that's going to save them is like being in meeting and talking to you really in real person.

56:53And so I do think that we are going to see this move back to more live, more in person, more, more of that stuff. Simultaneously more AI, more disconnected also too. This is, this plays right back into my ongoing theory of where we're heading down, which is this very unplugged, plugged in division where there's going to be some people, who actually don't give a shit that it's AI produced. If it got them to the best product with the best reviews and it does the job, then I'm okay with clicking, linking, buying. If I'm somebody who's like, or looking for something that is a personal touch, like again, our industry, we're about trainers training real people and helping people in real life.

57:38I think that they will value that more. If we were selling batteries and that was like the thing that we sold, then who cares if it's an AI ad as long as it gets them to the cheapest, best battery that lasts the longest. You know what I'm saying? And so it will create this kind of division of what your product is, what you sell, how you connect to your people. And so he did kind of blow up my dead internet thing. Well, good. So speaking of partners and stuff, this is our last time talking about Rock Recovery Center, right? Yes, yes. So, okay, but they're going to do another giveaway if I'm not mistaken.

58:11Is that correct? That's correct. One more for this year. Okay, so this is a rehab facility, and we know the guys that run it, and they're great, and they're great. Great people. And what they do for us and for our audience is you go on their site, and they'll help you no matter what, but one person gets a scholarship, and it's worth like$50 ,000. We go there, and$60 ,000, so four months of rehab, inpatient. You go in there, you stay there, they take care of you. So if you're struggling with addiction or you have a family or friend, first of all, they help everybody. So everybody that goes to their site will get help.

58:48It's rockrecoverycenter.com forward slash mindpump. That's right. They keep us updated too on all the patients that we've sent over there that are going through it and the people that they're helping. It's been a really rewarding experience to partner with them. And so the fact that they've been this giving for this long and been able to do that has been really cool. So awesome. I want to mention, too, that we have not announced the Black Friday winners on the show, even though we did send out a message on Instagram as well as emails to every one of the winners. But I wanted to make sure in case you didn't see that post or if you didn't get an email and you're still wondering if you won, we're going to put all the winners down in the show notes.

59:30I know you've heard this before. You are what you eat, but it's actually you are what you digest. You've got to break the food down. If you have digestive issues, digestive enzymes can make a big difference, especially for those of you on a high-protein diet. Well, MassZymes are digestive enzymes designed for people like you, fitness-minded people. Break down that food, help with your digestion, get those nutrients to your muscles faster and more effectively. Go to MassZymes.com. That's M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S.com forward slash MindPump. Use the code MindPump10 and get 10 % off. Back to the show. Our first caller is John from Washington.

1:00:10What's up, John? How you doing, John? What's happening? Hello. Good morning, everybody, or happy afternoon, or whatever it is for you guys. How can we help you, man? I need your help. My youngest daughter, she's 16 and a gymnast, has challenged me to a pull-up chin-up competition. Okay. And I'm a slightly competitive person, and I don't want my daughter to win. So I need your help. Do you know how many pull-ups you can do and how many she can do? I think she's around 12 or so. I'm not really sure. I'm at 14 right now. Yeah. So, which is a big increase for me because as of March, I could only do two and a half.

1:01:00So. Oh, good job. I've gotten some good gains, but I need more. Yeah. No, that's good, man. You know what? You just practice doing them every day, but you don't go to high intensity. So if your max is, let's say, 14 pull-ups, you could practice several times a day doing like six, seven pull-ups and just practice doing them like that moderate intensity at most, almost daily. You could do it a couple times, two, three times a day. so you just hop up on a pull-up bar do five six seven reps jump back down you know later in the day do it again and then maybe once a week you push it a little bit i was just saying wouldn't you have him at least one or two days out of the week do some really because he loaded and only yeah weighted three reps you have a weight vest by chance i don't have a weight vest but i can i can strap some to my to my waist yeah you can yeah like once a week really loaded like where three reps is hard yeah and that's like once a week you do like that would be rad So just work up to however much weight I can tolerate?

1:02:01For like three, four reps. Yeah, three to four reps. So yeah, as much weight as you can lift for about three or four reps, I would do that two times a week in a set of four. So four sets, be done with it. That's your workout for the day. Twice a week. And then the rest of the time is what Sal's saying. You're just practicing it. Jumping up there, practice just your body weight. All day long if you can. Not trying to go to fatigue. You don't get as many as you can get out. You just get out like five to seven multiple times per day. Yeah, you're not trying to work out. you're just you're just getting good at pull-ups if that makes sense but that combined with the two days a week with pretty with good rest in between with the heavy loaded you'll be you're going to be pulling up a lot real soon here that's it yeah yeah the frequency will really get you strong yeah now if you start to feel a little over trained take some time off you take a day or two off so you got to listen to your body but that that is your recipe for getting really good at something okay so now because it's pull-ups and chin-ups should i should i do like a alternating weeks or how do I do both?

1:02:57Practice the one that's harder, I would say. You can practice both, but which one's harder for you? probably chin up yeah that's the one I would practice because you get better chin ups your pull ups get easier Okay. Yeah, it's normally the opposite for me. Yeah, I know. I was going to say it. I mean, what you could do too is, like I was saying, the two days that are loaded, do one day overhand, the other day chin up. Okay. So the two that are loaded, the two that are loaded, and then you could, you know, because you're doing these pull-ups throughout the day, five to seven of them, like you're saying, multiple times in the day, you know, alternate every other one.

1:03:28The ones are pull-up, the other ones are underhand. You could also do it that way. But typically, if you get stronger at the weaker one, the other one's going to come up too. but you're kind of backwards most people are the uh uh chin-ups are easier and these are all these are all strict yeah you're not swinging around like crossfit guys i i swing a little bit i i pull up my knees a little bit i sent you guys a video i don't know if it came through or not i don't think we got it if you practice them strict yeah strict you'll be you'll you'll get stronger that way and then if you use momentum for the competition that's it yeah it's all good throw a little kip in there yeah well i did talk to my daughter and she said raising your knees is okay because we're starting to get the competition not till june oh okay you're good i got some time to to to get there yeah you should be able to get by from now till june if you could do 14 you'd be able to get in the mid-20s yeah oh yeah yeah especially you haven't if you haven't been training loaded like that and you really get strong loaded with just the reps throughout the day like sal saying you're gonna you're gonna see it explode yep okay yeah awesome i'm curious to hear how it goes back check back with us when the competition gets close yep i want to hear it goes all right i can do that all right you got it man all right brother all right thank you so much for help i appreciate you guys love the show yeah good luck man all right bye sure this reminds me of i trained a she was 13 or 14 year old gymnast young lady her parents hired me this was years ago i was like i was like 18 year old 19 year old trainer and she was this little you know petite you know 13 year old girl and she jumped up on the pull-up bar puts her legs out straight and then this is the speed and of her pull-ups oh my god it was like and i was like oh my god she was tiny she was a gymnast yeah and she was just it was doing pull with her legs straight out in front of her like it was like it's like walking yeah i was like oh my god this is ridiculous and she was for her size incredibly strong it's the first time i'd ever like been around a real gymnast Yeah, if he's at 14, he's at 14, 15 already, and he's got all the way until when was it done?

1:05:35June. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he should be able to get to 25. Oh, at least that. At least that. Especially if he has never really trained loaded like that. He's not heavy. He weighs 185 pounds, so he should be able to do that. Yeah, and has an increased frequency. He looked fit in the video, so he's already a fit guy. He just has to be mindful of not overdoing it. That would probably be the biggest mistake would be, you know, he hears us tell him to do all these repetitions, and then he ends up trying to go to failure a lot, and then he ends up being overly sore. No, he's just practicing. Our next caller is Mike from Tennessee.

1:06:02What's up, Mike? Hey, Mike. Hey, fellas. Man, it's so good to see you and talk with you. Thank you for taking the time to help me with this. You got it, man. How can we help you? Well, as I mentioned on my email, I'm a 64-year-old personal trainer in the East Tennessee area. I got my personal training certification this past June. I'm super, super excited. In our area, which probably across the United States, there's just thousands and thousands of seniors. if you want to call them that, that it seemed like they've just given up on life. Sedentary. I mean, go home, watch TV, sit on the couch, and they're all over in our community, kind of self-existing or just I don't know what the deal is.

1:06:43But I think our this current generation, we still have a lot to offer and a lot to give. And I just want to help us, I guess, to be able to do that and to get healthy and just change the mindset, I guess, because it's very prevalent. Yeah, good. Mike, this is great. Good on you, yeah. This was my favorite demographic. Favorite, favorite, favorite demographic to work with for many reasons. Yes, sir. One is they were very consistent. And I think that at that time, you know, when people were in their 60s, they were able to create a schedule of consistency. So they just showed up and they were very consistent.

1:07:19So for a business perspective, I like that. They were also great to be with. the conversations were always so rich and full of wisdom. So I would sit and just learn and talk with them. And then lastly, the most important part was they, they saw such tremendous value in what they got from exercise. And a lot of it was just, they move better and they didn't hurt as much. And they felt that very, very soon and very quickly. So one piece of advice I'll give you as a new trainer is get really good at correctional exercise and mobility. that is going to be the most important, most valuable tool that you'll have in your tool belt.

1:07:58It's not fat loss techniques. It's not, you know, advanced, you know, bodybuildings and that's that's correctional exercise and mobility. And then through that process, you'll open up avenues of conversation around nutrition, sleep, you know, hormones and the like, but start with pain, start with mobility and then go and then place yourself in areas or places where you can start to help people. So there are lots of communities where you can go and offer your services for free just to meet people. You know, care homes was one example, though it's a little bit of an older generation, but you can go into a care home, offer services there for free.

1:08:41You can go into clubs or organizations. I was a part of a couple of them here in the Bay Area. And I focused on pain. And that just built a great client base for me. Mike, I'll give you some gold. So the biggest mistake a trainer will make like you right now is assuming or thinking at all that these people are anything like you just because you have the same age. They have probably been sedentary for quite some time. And the motivation to train and work out is going to be very, very low. So learning to meet them where they're currently at. I would start a walking group. I would do it for absolutely free.

1:09:21I would flyer wherever it is that you work at. I would go to these communities at South St. And I would create this walking group that is free that we do on these days. If you could do it every day, it'd be awesome at this time, maybe even twice a day, you set it up so you can hit people in the morning and the afternoon or the night. And you just start to encourage these people to move. It's a real easy, real easy entry right it's like that that because you you try and strength train or attract people you're going to attract a very small percentage of people that are in that mindset of like i know i need to lift weights let's go do that but you just get people walking they'll do it for the social aspect by itself because they'll like that being able to talk and and from there you can take what sal was saying about like really understanding corrective exercise because what will happen when you're walking with you know 20 people that are in their 60s plus you're going to hear man my hip is driving me crazy and my knee and then you have the opportunity to go hey susan you know what that has been bothering you a lot um if you got some time uh come by and see me or i'll come by and see you and i'll show you some movements that'll actually alleviate a lot of that chronic pain you got going on oh man and that then then then that opens the door for by the way this is this is what i do i'm a personal trainer i help people with with this uh i've got a special passion for our community like that that's the gateway and the first goal for you is not really trying to get client it's how big can you make these walking groups can you make these walking groups so big that people notice some walking down the street that right there will translate into a business but focus on that i love that i think i think that's yeah that's great advice i think too like eventually you combine both of those together where you're you know like at some point you're doing the walk and you can kind of introduce like more of these mobility moves make a class out of it we've had a lot of interest in these like mobility classes just people don't do these types of movements and they're very therapeutic and, you know, pain relieving and stress relieving.

1:11:13And so, you know, some kind of a merger of the two eventually, I think that'd be a good fit, but definitely, you know, just build and get interest first. Do you have our prime program yet, Mike? Yes, sir. That was, well, my, I have a daughter and she got that for me for Christmas a few years ago. Yeah. Yeah. She noticed some things in me that needed some work. So in my own life, and actually my wife as well, she started doing some working out and noticed the difference. But yeah, I do have Prime Pro, and I also finished the OCR program a few weeks back. I'm doing some of those competitions. But I appreciate the reminder that I got to start really, really, really, really, really, really low.

1:12:01You're special, dude. You're special. You know what I'm saying? You care about this. You're already doing it. You're like that. That's not most people. And if you try and get them to where you're at right away, you're going to have a really hard time. You got to meet them where they are. Most of them will be very receptive and open for a nice social walk. And that's that will be your introduction. and you start it so it's a free thing. And so a lot of people should hopefully join if you do a good enough job of advertising and telling people about it. And then that's the focus. Trainers always want to think of like, what should my price be?

1:12:33And it's like, first just go prove you can find a community of people you can serve and help. And that's a way you can serve and help a big community and try and grow that. From that, the business will evolve. And maybe what you find out, we're telling you do correctional exercise, but maybe when you're walking with 30, 60 plus year olds, they're asking you all diet questions maybe it's all related that maybe they want help with recipes and diet and then the business unfolds but start with the build the community first and offer something free and valuable good walk with all these people and then and then and the other things will come after that yeah there's some built-in communities would be care home church groups yeah great places to pluck yeah anywhere if you especially if you belong to any of these communities already oftentimes offering a free service in that group for you know a specific big thing like back pain.

1:13:19We live in a smaller area here in East Tennessee and we go to one of the churches here and we've been going there for a little bit. So I'm pretty sure. And that's the perfect market because they're right there. So, and we got a big old parking lot. I mean, we can start walking there. We got a field that we can walk on and start. Ask the church. Just say, hey, can I do a walking group with people over the age of 55 or something like that and done. If you, if I was mentoring you to build this business, this is exactly how I would start you. I'd say, go do that. And then I'd say, come back to me when you got 25, 30 plus people that are walking with you throughout the week.

1:13:57And then I'll tell you the next step. Like that's, that's the main focus right there. And that in itself will be a big accomplishment in moving you in the direction you want to go. Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you. Yep. That'll, that'll be a good start. Yeah. My big question was just how to get in the door and that's that's the perfect answer for it that's it right on that's it brother you got it thank you fellas all right mike i appreciate it take care man easy you know what's funny about this conversation is um this is probably the one of the easiest groups to break into uh so if you're like a new trainer and you're trying to get clients this is actually one they love community they love organizing they're much more consistent they tend to have more time plenty of time on their hands they tend to have expendable income uh and so you you know you go into like if you go to a church already real for them yeah and you tell the church hey i want to do an x i want to do a you know a mobility class for for seniors for who have pain and i'm a trainer i want to offer for free the church will be like yes sure no problem and you're gonna have like 30 people show up right out the gates uh but and that that group values this so much like i said when i would when i would show them some pain relief it was like you had a customer for life yeah i think the biggest mistake trainers make here is is is too fast too soon thinking that like like try and explain to them how important strength training is and let's do that just like much too much that because what goes through their head is like well i got bad knees that's right i just had that surgery last year like they're gonna go it's just scared what you tell them a walk or like a stretching mobility class okay i could i could do that they'll show up consistently right and there's and it's free and there's friends and there's people i can talk to i'm telling you you do something like this you'll show up and you'll have people there waiting 10 minutes before the class they'll show up i mean i've given this i've given this advice to many trainers uh and this is not a thing just for him because he's 64 if you're a young trainer and you're listening to this uh that is a massive opportunity and that is the way you start this we had somebody uh we hired that was uh lived out in a very small town one one one road downtown it was like how do i build a business of people in this And it's like, man, can you imagine this walking group every morning at 7 a.m.

1:16:06with 20, 30 seniors all walking together? Start with coffee. Oh, yeah. What a spectacle that would be. It's a walking billboard every single morning. It's a gold mine. It's the largest segment of the population. It's growing. It's growing, and they have the highest need for exercise, especially for pain relief. And it's a complete gold mine, and trainers often don't even look at it. They tend to look in other areas. It's like, this is a big one. Our next caller is Emily from Florida. Hi, Emily. Hi, Emily. Hi. How are you guys? Good. How are you? How can we help you? This is so weird. I'm sorry.

1:16:42Like, I feel like I'm just watching the podcast, but I'm on the podcast. Oh, my gosh. I'm good. I'm good. Okay. Well, I do want to say just thank you guys so much for all that you do. I started listening to you guys because I was trying to find CrossFit, like, podcasts, and I came across your guys's, which is the complete opposite of what I was expecting, but it literally saved me. So I really appreciate you guys' content and education. Thank you. But I'll get into my email. I don't know how to split it, so I just wrote it down. Okay. And I'm sorry if I am jittery. I'm just nervous. No worries.

1:17:23Okay. Okay, so about two years ago, I went to my doctor and on a whim, I just decided to get my cholesterol tested. They just wanted to see how everything was going. And it came out to be like, hi. At the time, they wanted to put me on statins, but they're like, well, let's see how you do. Let's see if you can do it conservatively. I was doing MAPS programs and Muay Thai at the time. Before that, I did seven years of CrossFit. the cholesterol was 213 for my total, 113 for HDL, and then 87 for LDL. And so they're like, okay, we'll give you like six months, we'll check it again. From there, I started doing Whole30 just to kind of help clean up my diet, try to find if there's anything wrong with maybe inflammation or triggers.

1:18:11And I found that I had some lactose and soy intolerances. So I don't even eat that anymore. So I feel like a thousand times better without having it. My gut's better. My energy is better. And so I take my cholesterol test again thinking, oh, this is going to be awesome. And it was the same total. So 213, my HDL went down to 111 and then my LDL was 96. And so she's like, well, now there's two. But I was like, well, can I just try again? Let me do it again and see if I can get down lower. And so I come again. And this time I got with the coach and I got into a deficit and we started adding cardio to kind of help with my heart health.

1:18:52And I got it checked again. This one was a different doctor and it came back higher at 223, a hundred for HDL. And then LDL was 113. And so now I'm just like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I don't know if it's my diet because I've cleaned up my diet. I've lived still through like whole 30 for the most part of in like decreased my calories to try to lose some weight. And so luckily the doctor was like, you know what? Like you're healthy, you're doing workouts, you're doing cardio, you're doing all the things. Maybe it's just genetics because my dad also has high cholesterol and he's like, he's like a long distance biker and he's on statins because his cholesterol is too high.

1:19:36And so I'm just trying to see if I like first, I don't like cardio. And I know because of listening, you guys, I'm like, I don't have to do cardio, but should I be doing cardio for my heart? Is there something that I'm not looking or I'm not asking from the doctors why my cholesterol would be getting worse by doing better? So that's, that's kind of my question. Um, and see if you guys can help me or at least point me in the right direction. Yeah, good. Great question. So should you do cardio for your heart? For overall health, it's a good idea to have a good component of stamina with strength as well.

1:20:11So cardio is not bad. Do you have to do it? No. But if you want to, let's say, optimize overall fitness, some is a good idea. So a little bit would be totally fine. You'd probably notice better performance overall. When we communicate to cardio, oftentimes we're talking to people that overdo the hell out of it or they have a specific fat loss goal. It just isn't for fat loss. Yeah, like I want to lose fat. Should I do lots of cardio? It's like, no, here's a better approach. So a little bit of cardio is totally fine. And I think it's good for, I know it's good for people to incorporate it. By the way, it doesn't have to be traditional cardio.

1:20:45It could also be, you know, HIIT style. If you're healthy and not a lot of stress, it could be a circuit. You know, one circuit workout can provide that. Higher volume of reps. High volume of reps with low rest periods will give you some cardiovascular benefits. There's a lot of different ways to do that. All right, let's talk about the cholesterol. LDL is the one that is correlated with issues. Okay, so high HDL is good. Total cholesterol, not that big of a deal. If you look at the data, I forgot to preface this by saying I'm not a doctor. So I'm a personal trainer, so I'll say that first. um so it ldl is the one that's that's uh connected to uh bad outcomes you can get a blood test that will look at the type of ldl you have right so that'll so ldl is general then there are particle sizes of ldl and the particle sizes make a difference so you can uh request a test that looks deeper at the type of cholesterol how should you request that is there a name to that test?

1:21:47No, I think you could just, I don't know, that's a good question. I think you would just say, I'd like to do a test that looks at particle size of my LDL and they should know what we're talking about. Okay. So your HDL is good. It's pretty high. Your LDL is a little high. Ideally, you'd want it below a hundred. Genetics do play a big role. Here are the other things that will play a role. The type of fats that you eat tend to play a role in this, in some people quite a bit. Some people, it doesn't make that big of a difference. I could eat as much saturated fat as I want. My LDL just doesn't stay, it just doesn't change.

1:22:25Other people, they need to reduce their saturated fat intake and replace it with other types of fats. So what this would look like is if you're eating fatty red meat, you could switch to grass-fed meat, grass-fed, grass-finished. Or you could switch to other sources of fat, fish. Chicken. That was a great, you know, you could increase things like avocado, olive oil, those kinds of fats. Here's the other thing. What is that called, Doug? It's called a… Yeah, NMR lipoprofile. It's an advanced NMR lipoprofile. Okay. It counts the actual number and measure the size of bad cholesterol, which would get much more specific.

1:23:04Okay. Here's the other thing. There are some supplements that make a difference that are some stronger than others. so citrus bergamot i think as it's called can have an effect on cholesterol red yeast rice extract is a natural statin and that will definitely have an effect so it has statin effects in the body but it's not a pharmaceutical you can buy it at a supplement store and if you take that you'll see a difference you can also add to that high epa fish oil yeah so the clients that I've worked with who seem to be doing a lot of things right, who are otherwise healthy, who are eating well, and we see some of the stuff, we're like, well, we can improve upon this.

1:23:48I've had them take high EPA fish oil, red yeast rice extract, and then they come back with great numbers. I mean, within 45 days. Can you give her an example of if she goes and gets that other blood test, they come back, they break down the HDL and they say - The LDL. Or LDL, excuse me. and they say that this many are the big fluffy particles it's like what is she what does she want to hear they'll tell you in the test i can't tell you off the top of my head but i know the test itself has um parameters so it'll tell you you know that your your your small particle uh ldl is too high for example so um that test should tell you because the big the big ones are healthy and good for you yeah and so if if she's got more of that less of the small ones it'll come back as like a positive she's good yeah yeah so that's where you get more specific but honestly like uh the red yeast rice and high epa fish oil uh i'd say probably set maybe i'm gonna i'm gonna give an estimate like 70 of my clients didn't change anything we just took that and they came back and they were like great did they feel different because like i don't feel yeah like i don't feel like I have a heart issue.

1:25:00Like when I run, I don't feel bad. I do jujitsu also and MMA. So I never feel, okay. I don't have to add more than that. No, that's cardio. What are you talking about? Okay. That's plenty. Yeah. You got a hell of cardio girl. Yeah. Okay. You don't need extra cardio. You're good. You're not going to necessarily feel, uh, when your cholesterol is, you know, whatever, especially if you're fit and healthy. Yeah. And this, by the way, This is one measurable factor. Could you predict somebody's mortality accurately with an LDL that's like you're barely elevated? Probably not great. But if we combine that with like fitness, activity, diet, stress, blood pressure, then we start to get a more clear picture.

1:25:52But this is one metric. but like I said, if it's, if it's weighing on you, uh, I bet if you just took those supplements, you probably wouldn't need to change anything. And you'd see that number go where, and your doctor would probably be happy. Okay. Yeah. And, and I wasn't sure how much weight obviously to put on it. Cause it seems like, well, the more I look into it, the more I realize like it, sometimes some people just have higher cholesterol and, and I was trying to see like, okay, is there, is this number, does it even matter? You know, or, you know, what other tests but i'll try that other test and see because maybe it really isn't anything and that's just where my cholesterol is and i'm completely fine i guarantee it is genetic that's because you're fit you eat right you do all this stuff it is cholesterol can be highly genetic but also like i said look here here's here not not to not to throw you off but look at the data on high high ldl and the elderly and you find they live longer there are people that argue that it's not a bad thing.

1:26:50Now I've seen the data and more of the data shows that it's correlated, uh, to worse outcomes. Uh, not like it's not this big red flag, by the way, unless it's super high. It's like this crazy red flag, but then there's studies on the elderly, like the people with higher LDL get way lower cancer rates. And so there's a connection, you know, there as well. So. And then I had one extra question. I don't remember which podcast it was you guys talked to, but you guys mentioned that overtraining and maybe overly stress can increase the HDL that might increase the total. Is that something to also consider?

1:27:28Yeah, you could throw your lipids off because you're just burnt out. Do you feel like you're overtrained? I don't know because I did CrossFit for seven years and I honestly didn't feel any different, but it like it felt good to do it and then I've kind of traded CrossFit for I still do maps program I do like performance 15 because I like to do MMA and jiu-jitsu I like that aspect because I think it's more you know as a female you just have to be on your toes and so I like that aspect but it's kind of the same thing where I go in and do stuff and I feel fantastic but I don't feel like like I have that much energy but then I do it and then I feel great so I usually it's just one of those thing I just keep doing because it makes me feel good.

1:28:13So I don't know. How's your sleep? My sleep's fine. The only thing is I got out of my deficit and I tried to reverse diet. And it was probably one of the hardest things in the world to reverse and try to eat more because I know my body needed more because I was doing a lot, but I just, I had a hard time eating that much. And I don't know, part of me wonders if I'm just doing too much and not eating enough. and how much are you training and what are your calories um i do the mass 15 uh the only time i don't do the list for that is if i'm doing mma or jiu-jitsu or open mat so three days i'm just that's all i do those days because i don't want to over train um i maybe eat between 18 to 2000 and that's like you're probably low it's low it's low 2000 is hard to to reach yeah you're probably eating too little.

1:29:07You're low. I did jujitsu and I know how taxing three days a week of jujitsu is. I could only lift one day a week when I was doing jujitsu three days a week and my lifting was three exercises moderate. I was a 27 year old male. Really difficult for you to build any muscle while doing that. So your strength training hopefully to build muscle, build your metabolism. That's not going to happen at 1800 to 2000 calories training six days a week of anything it's just it's too low for that you know you know it's an easy way for you to bump your calories emily is when you're doing your your mma and jujitsu is to have a carbohydrate protein drink that you drink during and so you would have like a shake with some carbohydrates in it um and so it'd be an easy 300 calories that you're having, you know, kind of a little bit before, during, and after.

1:30:04And so it would give you an extra easy way to add some calories. And then one extra thing on that, um, when I was trying to increase my calories, um, I like, it got to a point where I was literally eating bowls of cereal or pop tarts just to get the calories in because I just could not take the volume. Is that something that's okay or should I do a different route? Yeah. What do you mean? You mean you couldn't eat, you couldn't, you just didn't have the appetite. So you had to eat things that were hyper palatable. Yes. Yes. It's okay. That's interesting. Especially at 1800 calories and that much activity.

1:30:42Yeah. So, and also I'm assuming at that low calories, we're also low on protein. So here, do this if you can. I think if you backed off the MMA to two days a week, maintain MAPS 15, drop the intensity, and as you start to get stronger, appetite will probably pick up a bit. Okay. Yeah, because here's what overtraining looks like appetite-wise. Low appetite with a lot of cravings. Okay. So overtraining tends to make you not, like you're like, I'm not hungry, but then you have cravings and it's hyperpalatable food. so that's kind of what it sounds like yeah okay yeah okay that makes sense yep okay well thank you guys um i appreciate that um i'll definitely i'll have to listen to the episode again so i can get the supplement list um but yeah i appreciate all that you guys do and um yeah i will take that into consideration because i do want to eat more i know my body needs it i just i gotta get there yeah all right well good yeah thanks for calling in thanks Emily of course thank you bye guys I'm glad we got to the training part yeah she's she's over trained she's over trained for sure she's over MMA jiu-jitsu is intense I mean it's less than probably what she was doing with CrossFit like in terms of her schedule but yeah all of that added up is still a lot oh yeah and I'm glad she mentioned her food because you guys have experienced this like when you're over training it's like you we just have cravings yeah it's not like a normal appetite well yeah and if you're you're struggling to get to 1800 to 2000 that you need pop tarts and so that i mean that means you're actually only eating like 1300 what good calories and how many guys craving yeah which means you're also missing dramatically on protein yeah yeah no she's she's overtrained which now sal will will overtraining and under eating like that will it really start to mess with her her blood lipids it can it can it can it's interesting you can't how fast is that the body like like a protective mechanism that it's doing maybe oh yeah maybe especially with more inflammation you know you start to see some uh some results from that you know from inflammation which obviously real tough to recover when you're training that much and you're eating that little your body's probably in a permanent state of kind of but you know it's interesting cholesterol there's a really strong genetic component in some people yeah well her dad's a major runner and sounds really fit and he still has still has yeah yeah and like mine like mine don't change yeah i could eat only saturated fat and it just stays the same and i know other people that just look at you know do they still really consider that a huge risk factor is that just something you can control total cholesterol if it's really high is an issue yeah but and is it and paired with other things too or independent yeah there's there's a there's a condition called hyper cholesthesia i think it's called where people have like numbers like four or five hundred then you start to see some issues but you know you're a little bit over 200 everything else is good you're probably okay I was going to say, and you're fit.

1:33:33You do all these things. We don't have any other. LDL is the one. And then if you look closer, particle size is even better. Our next caller is Ashley from Iowa. Hi, Ashley. How you doing, Ashley? Morning. Hi, guys. This is so crazy, actually, being on here. How can we help you? So thanks so much for having me. My husband and I, we're big fans of you guys. We've listened to you guys for a couple of years now and have learned a lot from you guys. So thank you. Great. So I'll just go ahead and dive into my email here that I had sent. Although some things have changed for the better, honestly, since submitting this.

1:34:11Thanks to you guys. And also, we were able to meet with one of your coaches, Tyler, a couple months ago. Oh, good. And got some good insight from him. So that was really cool. Awesome. So I'm a 36-year-old working wife and mom. About 5 '8", 130 pounds. I've struggled with an eating disorder for about 15 years of my life Continue to work on improving my mindset around food and body image I was also diagnosed with Hashimoto's about 10 years ago And have worked with a functional med doctor for the past couple years to address gut and hormonal issues I currently supplement with testosterone, estradol, and progesterone But still haven't, I still don't get like a regular period for over six years.

1:35:01Nutrition-wise, I follow a mostly whole food diet and avoid gluten and most dairy. I try to eat around 2250 calories a day and I'm working towards reaching 2500 with a protein goal of 130. However, I find it challenging to increase calories without also increasing fiber too much, which often leads to constipation. Fitness has been a huge part of my life for over a decade. And for the past six years since meeting my husband, I've focused more on strength training. My husband and I share this passion and even built our own personal studio gym, which we do hope to turn into a business one day. We've worked with a trainer last year and I was able to get up to about 136 pounds, but then I began to feel inflamed and my digestion worsened.

1:35:59So I did quit working with the trainer. I backed down. And with that little bit of a cut, I did see the gains that I had built with getting up to the 136. One of my biggest struggles is that every time I start to gain muscle and my clothes begin to fit tighter, I find myself mentally pulling back. I know this is tied to my past struggles with body image, but I am unsure how to overcome that fear while pursuing strength and health goals. I did complete performance and aesthetic programs this past year, and my husband and I quickly learned that aesthetic is too much volume for us. And Tyler guided us into starting the 40 plus, which we are on week six right now, I believe.

1:36:50We definitely feel like that fits our lifestyle a lot better. So my ultimate goal is to overcome the mental block, gain muscle and strength, and would love to help others someday. Most recently after meeting with Tyler, I have got my calories back up to 2 ,600 and are hitting my protein consistently about 130 to 150 daily. I've done this for about 10 weeks now and I'm up six pounds. I'm starting to feel the mental struggle at this point. I'm wondering if this is too fast of a gain, how long I should bulk, if it would be okay to cut soon as we're going on vacation beginning of February. And also like, what is the best program for me?

1:37:37Good. I could see your shoulders and arms through your long sleeve shirt. So I think you're doing pretty good just so you know. Are you working with Tyler regularly or was it just you met with him? No, it was just like a free Zoom call. Got it. Yeah. So the best thing you could do, Ashley, for everything you asked is to continue working with a coach. So this process, having someone guide you, is going to be the best thing you could do with the whole mental issue around reverse dieting, my weight, all that stuff. It's also going to help you with your business because you're going to work with someone who's built a business around coaching.

1:38:15And so you can ask questions around or just observe how it's organized. So I think it's going to set you up for being a good coach as well. And then, you know, lastly, actually, you're going to have to stop weighing yourself and really looking at yourself in the mirror a lot. There's no other way around it because you don't need you shouldn't go back on a cut. Six pounds is not only six pounds good that you gain. You probably need to gain more. Yeah. Um, and I think this is probably tied to your period. Um, I, you're probably in the teens and body fat percentage, which you probably need to be in the low twenties to start to get regular menses, uh, and to feel really good.

1:38:54Uh, so I would suggest a few things. I wouldn't weigh myself at all. I would only pay attention to strength. Uh, I wouldn't study myself in the mirror. So that means you can get ready and stuff like that, but you know what I mean? When we kind of looked in the mirror and study our bodies, don't study yourself in the mirror. And I would also avoid clothing that tends to trigger you, which is probably tighter fitting clothing. Um, and, and that's really because here's what's going to happen. All of those are going to serve as reminders that, Oh, I'm gaining weight or what's happening, or I need to question this whole process.

1:39:25So you got to get, you got to just disconnect from those things for a while. Uh, so you can move in the right direction. Otherwise it's going to keep pulling you back. Yeah. The first part of this process is accepting understanding it's you who is getting in your own way. There's not a mathematical equation, a macro diet we have for you, an exercise plan that's going to solve this equation. You're good at that part. You probably are somebody who will follow the plan, do the thing. It's the mental game that you're struggling with, all the things and stuff that Sal's talking about. And this is the value of having somebody that coaches you.

1:40:01You outsource that. They're the ones who are making decisions. They're the one who's steering this ship. I'm going to trust in them to guide me to the right place. They're the professional, even though you probably know what to do, exercise, you know what to do, all those things, but you have also accepted and you know, I continue to get in my own way. And so I'm going to defer, I'm going to defer, I'm going to outsource this and trust the process. That in itself is challenging, incredibly challenging. So I'm with Sal. I think this is one of those situations where we could sit down and write out the perfect plan for you, that's not why you will fail or not get there.

1:40:37It's literally only yourself will stop that from happening. And having somebody help you through that process is the most important part. To put it differently, Ashley, what it would look like is you work with a good coach and you have complete submission, meaning you just do what they tell you. Because if you listen to your body, you're going to go in the wrong direction. Because of your past and because of your relationship with your body and fitness, if you listen to your body, it's going to tell you, you're eating too much. Start cutting. Don't do that. Do more. Pants aren't fitting right.

1:41:10And it's like all these, but if you submit to your coach and just do what they tell you and ignore your body for the time being, then you'll start to, you'll be able to develop a new relationship with fitness, but it's a process. And part of what they've been taught by us and they will help you through this process is starting to connect the dots to all the other things like you have a you have a default pattern of what you connect the dots to how my pants feel how do i look in the mirror what does the scale say they're going to be asking questions like how's your energy how's your libido how's your strength how's your strength yeah how's your mood how's your like they're going to start to really help you detach from the things that you measure your fitness success by and start to attach to the things that really matter and more important and will guide you towards health.

1:41:52And that's a process. It's not as easy as like, okay, just focus on these things, Ashley, going forward. And you're like, okay, got it. I'll do it. It's like, no. Well, we'll always keep falling back to our default patterns. That's what they're going to be constantly reminding you of. And then all of a sudden it's going to click. It's going to be like, oh, wow. Okay, I see it. I feel it. And then you still end up getting the thing you want, the goals that you have. But it's a process of detaching from those old patterns. Yeah, I definitely struggle with that number on the scale. I try not to weigh very often, but I stepped on it the other day.

1:42:24It was 132, which I had gotten down to about 126 after working with the trainer, and I had cut a while. And for some reason, that number, it's just. Of course. Of course. You can't weigh yourself. Well, let's actually, let me tell you how irrelevant it is. You're 5 '8". So my ex was 5 '8", and she walked around at 180 pounds, and she competed on stage, ripped shredded with abs at 170 okay so weight is so irrelevant same height as you walked around 180 all day like it's irrelevant we we can we can we can put a i can put a number that's 20 pounds on top of that and make you look even better than you look already so it's like and so you got to get past that you get past that that that number has anything to do with your health and fitness has nothing to do with your health and fitness.

1:43:17In fact, it's hurting your health and fitness by focusing on it. In your case, it's anti-health. Yes. So do something like this, Ashley. Say, I'm not, because if I just say don't weigh yourself, it's like open-ended. So just say, I'm not going to weigh myself for 90 days or six months, something like that. Something you can commit to, yeah. Yeah, and here's what will happen. You're going to hate it at first. You're going to be curious. Oh, God, I just, how much, I feel like I'm gaining weight. Like, what's going on? But after about 30 days, you'll kind of stop thinking about it as much. And 60 days in, you're going to be like, this is really freeing.

1:43:51This feels really freeing. But it's going to take a second. Now, the important thing, though, Ashley, is the coach. The coach is going to walk you through this process. It's really like your best bet is to work with someone. Plus, you have your question about building your business. One of the best ways to learn how to build a business in personal training is to be mentored by. That's right. I mean, at the bare minimum, if you don't get the one-on-one coaching with one of our trainers the muscle mommy group with uh nicole and with uh corinne that are leading that would be extremely valuable because there's many there's lots of women that are coming from a similar place as you inside that community they meet once a week virtually with the ladies and so if if you can't do a one-on-one situation which i highly recommend the next best thing in my opinion that we do is the muscle mommy group that's led by Corinne and Nicole.

1:44:41And Corinne has also openly talked about she's struggled with this in the past herself and was a competitor. And so she can relate and a great person to talk to. And so if you haven't spoken to her or talked to her, that group is extremely valuable. Okay. Well, I mean, six pounds in 10 weeks, is that? Yeah. Great. It's awesome. For someone like you, yes. We could have done 10 or 12. Yeah. Could have done 10 or 12. Okay. I struggle with knowing just like, is this fat? Is it muscle? Does it matter? Does it matter? Right now, it doesn't matter. I'll give you an answer, Ashley. Okay? You need to gain some body fat too.

1:45:18But I know you don't want to hear that. Yeah. No. But to be healthy, you need to gain some body fat too. It's not just muscle. But I know you don't want to hear that. And if you're lifting weights and you're gaining weight like that, you're fine. Most of it's muscle. And even if, with Sal's point, even if a couple pounds of it was body fat, that's still good. It's good. It's the right direction. I've had female clients, actually, where we fixed their, in order to fix their hormones, their health, we had to gain body fat. They just did not have enough body fat on their bodies. And most women, if they're walking around in the teens consistently, especially if they have a background of eating disorder, it's not enough.

1:45:59Yeah. by the way a low 20s and fit is a great body fat percentage yeah i know i listen to you guys constantly and so i hear this stuff all the time and it's like my husband tells me you just you need to you need to do it on yourself like what would you tell somebody else you know like yeah get a coach yeah it is so hard yeah um for for like a workout program though it's 40 plus Yep, fine. That's fine. Yeah, 40 plus is good. Symmetry is good. Anabolic will be good. All the 15 models are good for you. All the 15 models will be good for you. All of it's good. Again, this is where I want to be careful.

1:46:38This is not a mathematical equation for you. This is not a program issue. This is not a macro issue. That's not your challenge. It's like there's nothing we're going to say program-wise, diet-wise right now that is going to solve the challenge that you're having right now. This is why we keep going back to the having a cut. You just need someone every week when you check in and go like, you're doing great. Love what I see. Love what's going on. Love what I hear. You're doing great. And then you can pour on to me. I don't like the way this. And you say all those things. And I'm like, hey, it's OK.

1:47:11You're doing great. You're doing great. That's it. Adam's girl voice is my name. Oh, I forget. I piss some people off when I do this. Actually, I'll tell you what. Let me sell this to you, OK? Here's what this will feel like later for you. Because you already love fitness. but it's not going to be stressful anymore. It's going to be a really nice relationship. It's not going to feel like this thing that is kind of lording over you all day where you're counting and paying attention and where every, you know, you're kind of moving always in this direction or thinking about it's going to feel stress less, not stressful.

1:47:44And that is going to be so freeing for you. I do feel like I have to track food though in order to eat enough. or if I'm wanting to get to the 2600 initially I have to track yeah initially protein is yeah yeah if your tendency is to under eat then then yeah uh and this is where you'll start but eventually you'll end up in a place where you don't but yeah I mean I guess I've worked with clients like you and we had to track because if I just left let them eat what you know how they felt like I come in at 1200 calories every day so yeah and so when do I get to a point where I can like cut and see the benefit like that's that's hard for us to answer right now uh you know could be it could be a couple months could be a year yeah it's hard to say it's hard to say at some point you're gonna have to honest to god actually you're gonna have to let go your mindset might completely change and surprise you make peace with never cutting again i'm not saying you're not going to cut but if you keep thinking yourself i'm doing this so that i can cut later you missed the point we're not fixing it we're not fixing the problem it's not going to get better so the goal would be to be at 2600 calories for good yes yes the goal is definitely in high teens the goal is to be able to get you a regular period yes to have you feeling good yes for you to feel free for you to feel like you're not having to check on things and weigh yourself all the time you'll look amazing too the side effect of that's going to be you're going to look better than you've ever yeah did you have to go part of the success story is i did have my period come back this month Wonderful.

1:49:18All right. Just simply bumping those calories. Look at that. Yeah, the six pounds. Look at that. Look at it off right away. That's awesome. That's good news. See, moving in the right direction. You are. Moving in the right direction. Okay. Can I ask you something about 40 plus? Yeah. So my husband and I were wondering about like the sprints and the steady state cardio. Like we question whether we're doing it right. We've chose running as the cardio just because that's the equipment that we have. do you like when you do the sprints, do you sprint and then like jump off the treadmill and just rest for a minute?

1:49:56Or do you walk or how, how is that supposed to be done? So let your heart rate come all the way back down. If that means jumping off of it, or you can push it all the way back, you push it all the way back down to like a two and a half speed or something. The goal is the goal is to you're like intervals, right? So you're getting after it really fast and just to spike the heart rate up. And then you, and every, this is where everyone's going to be. this is why it's really hard to program something generically for the end. I cool down better with a slow walk. Yeah, a real slow walk. That's why I said, go back down to like two and a half walk.

1:50:24Calm the heart. And the time frame is less important. So it's like how long, the next question is normally, how long do I do that for? Well, it's until you feel your heart rate come all the way back down. Which might take a while. Yeah, exactly. It might take you two minutes, might take somebody else a minute and a half, might take your husband three minutes. Would take me 10 minutes. Right. Everybody is different. So I'm waiting to feel my heart rate come down. a generic way to do that without measuring a heart rate is you should be able to be walking on it next to your husband and you guys are having a full-blown conversation just like if you were walking outside.

1:50:55Now my heart rate's down, now I can go again. And then that's how I'm doing it. So less about the time, more about that feeling of spiking it all the way up and then letting it come all the way back down. Okay. And what would be the best program to follow after of 40 plus? Have you done symmetry yet? No. Yeah, do symmetry. symmetry or any of the 15s yeah i like all the 15s for her too right now yep ashley can i have someone call you yeah okay i'll have i'll have somebody call you okay cool yeah let's get you all right ashley thanks ashley you got it okay thank you guys you got it all right got this right that's the the look of someone who heard what there's what but they need to hear it but doesn't want to.

1:51:42The resistance. I get it, dude. Yes. I get it, man. I get it. It's tough. I forgot about the people that don't like my girl voice. Oh, yeah, dude. And if you come to me, hey, hey, hey. You know what? I feel like maybe the audience hasn't heard me do it to a guy yet because I don't have to, the guy, if I have to repeat a dude, I'll do the same thing. I'll do the same thing to a dude that I have to keep. You should do a girl voice for a dude just to mess with somebody. If you come to me, hey, hey, hey. do like 80s bully voice yeah yeah yeah

1:52:15just to balance it out condescending it's like calm the fuck down calm the fuck down relax just wait till he does his other races wait till I hear that just kidding look if you're like go ahead go ahead no what no it's tough is that uh I mean even at all the times I kept saying it to her she kept asking program questions scale questions she needs a coach yeah that is just that is not the problem here the problem is not coaches all the time the problem is not the the math in the situation it is not that whatsoever it's not there's not an answer in a calorie amount there's not an answer in a macro there's not an answer in what program to run this is literally the mental challenge yes you've you've struggled with taking care of your body and being healthy and you have attached that to a look in the mirror and or the scale that's right and it is extreme by the way extremely common yep so and and and there's like a spectrum of this she i mean god bless her for coming on and being open enough to share that she's had this this eating disorder that she struggled with for 15 years that that's that's one end of the spectrum most people fall somewhere on that line maybe they didn't have a full-blown disorder that they'll admit but a lot of people are on that pathway of that this This steers them.

1:53:36Maybe they're not like crazy obsessive about it enough where they would say, I have an eating disorder. But most people have attached their success and results so much to the scale and mirror, they're getting in their own way. So that's all. She needs to get out of her own way. Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, Check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com.

1:54:07The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family.

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From the publisher

Mind Pump Fit Tip: Progressive Overload, the Secret to Building Muscle and Burning Fat. (1:56)
Buyer beware: Organic Planet Protein Powders. (26:27)
The benefits of creatine for women and a PSA for buyers. (30:35)
Getting away from the scale. (38:09)
Dark tourism. (43:47)
The Lost Labyrinth of Egypt. (48:22)
AI ads. (52:17)
Rock Recovery Scholarship. (58:01)
Black Friday Winners! (59:08)
#ListenerCoaching call #1 – My 16-year-old daughter challenged me to a pull-up and chin-up competition. What training tips or techniques do you recommend? (1:00:07)
#ListenerCoaching call #2 – Ideas, suggestions, tips, on how to begin to make a difference in the health of this community of senior citizens. (1:06:00)
#ListenerCoaching call #3 – Cardio for heart health and genetics & higher cholesterol. (1:16:32)
#ListenerCoaching call #4 – Struggling to build muscle without falling back into old mental blocks. (1:33:38)

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