2766: Become a Bodybuilder AND Run a Marathon! Here is How.

25:33You know what's funny about what you're saying? You take a total beginner. You know how much endurance they gain just from building strength in the beginning? Yeah. The VO2 max goes everything. Lifting weights will already start to do that. It's already increasing reps. It's already difficult enough for them to hit protein intake on a consistent basis. So I'm going to, even knowing what you just went over, I'm still focused on convincing them that, listen, we're going to get both. But we're going to mainly focus right now on building strength, building your metabolism. And then when we got ourselves ramped up calorie-wise, you're feeling strong, then we're going to start to include this endurance training.

26:08And this is what it might look like. Yeah, if I had a total beginner, barring any major injuries or any of that stuff, it would probably look like six months of just strength training correctional exercise. And then after that, then we start incorporating stuff like this. Yes. Okay, cool. I just want to make that clear. Because I feel like, I mean, we're in January, right? So we're in the new year right now. A lot of people are probably coming off either a layoff or this is a New Year's resolution getting started. And they're like, yes, that's me. I want to build endurance. And I also want to get strong.

26:35And it's like, yeah, but you're still better off following like a very traditional strength training program, increasing your protein intake, building your metabolism, laying a good foundation. And then we play with things like that. 100%. Speaking of building muscle, I might have brought this study up before, but I read it again. And it just blows me away because there's very few biohacking tools that actually make a big difference. but red light therapy known as photo bio modulation there was a tooth there's a lot of studies by the way like in fact uh they did they did a a review of 10 studies like a meta analysis showing that it definitely builds muscle and increases strength but there's one study in particular that i really like where they took identical twins they trained them the same the only difference was one twin did the red light therapy post-workout the other twin didn't was Is there a difference in muscle gains?

27:31There was. The twin that did the red light therapy built more muscle, measurable muscle. It's your ultimate case study, right? This was 12 weeks. Twins. This was 12 weeks. So what that highlights, because what I think when people hear you say that, red light therapy is not building them up. It's recovering faster, right? I mean, that's what's happening. It's mitochondrial health. Well, here's where it gets crazy, bro. They've done this with people who don't. They don't have them strength trained at all. They just test their strength beginning, and then they test it at the end. Red leg therapy builds a little bit of strength.

28:03That's weird. It seems to trigger. I mean, it's like testosterone. It seems to trigger. It just cranks your output a bit. Yeah, dude. Now, the gains are more when you add that. But again, though, that's just because it's just overall mitochondrial health, right? If you improve that for 12 weeks. You're improving your cells. Yeah. So they're going to be more efficient. They're going to fire better. So if I'm listening to this, and I've got time on my hands, and I'm super into building muscle, I would do it on the body parts I just trained. I don't know why somebody hasn't invented a figure of this.

28:35I want to build a shower. That's why. Because the hardest part for me is just taking the time. And I know that sounds so whatever. Some people are great, okay? But I struggle with the supplements all the time. I struggle with getting over in front of the red light therapy and sitting there for 15, 20. But if my shower lit up. You're already there for. Yes. I'm taking two showers a day every day, minimum, sometimes three. Wait, you take three showers? Yes, absolutely. First thing in the morning. That's a lot, dude. That's not a lot. First thing, Doug, are you with me, Doug? No, not that many. Oh, wow.

29:09Okay, look at it, Doug. Sometimes two, but that's right. Always two. That's first thing in the morning to get up, and then before I get in my bed. I cannot get in a bed dirty. Bro, you work in the studio, though. Where are you getting dirty? Doesn't matter. I feel oily, dirty, you know, this, whatever. Like, people hugging me that got cologne on, all that stuff. I just say, get off me. I cannot get in a bed without doing it. That's minimum. And then if I have my workout in the middle of the day, I'm showering after that too. What are you guys, once every other day or something? No, once a day.

29:36Huh? Once a day. I don't know if I believe you. Wow. That oily skin over there is probably next to everything. It's nice. It's got good bacteria. Once a day is enough, dude. You also soap up your whole body. No, I don't. Oh, you stopped doing that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't do that. Listen, I got Caldera too that I'm using, so I got the right stuff, so I'm good on that. You used to soap. Remember you told me. Once a day I scrub. Once a day. So you do wash everything with soap once a day? Yeah, I do. Everything? Well, I mean, pretty much everything. Your feet, your arms. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God, bro.

30:06You're killing your skin, dude. I shouldn't be with all, like, Caldera stuff like that. I'm not using any of the... It's still soap. The Crest or Safeguard or whatever, the crazy chemical. You just made up two soaps, bro. No, Safeguard is a brand. Yeah, Safeguard is a toothpaste. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what soap, Justin? Irish. Irish Spring. Yeah. used to use that the cheap cut it with a knife 40 bars 40 bars for a dollar hey why was that why was that such a good commercial where they cut the soap with a knife I don't know it made sense to me though it's like it's just like how old men like eat bananas you know it's just like hell no I'm not like sucking on this banana yeah hey that's true chop it up you've never seen is that what it's called yeah like oh soap the only time you'll eat a banana just like that is when no one's around otherwise otherwise you get to get a butter knife yeah you better get a knife dude to get the slices off but i mean if the real ones know if juve created something that like you you could mount like above i don't know if it could get wet that might be the issue there's come on there's ways to work around that you put some sort of a clear film or something like that to protect that you're mr optimize you know and make everything look the way you want it in your house i mean i trust me i thought about it i thought about actually doing so when i i didn't of all the places i remodel i didn't remodel our our bathroom and so i've told katrina i said when we remodel this oh by the way i have another one that i'm doing you're gonna like this because i know you're you're shopping right now so you know what i got for christmas what's good that i just katrina got this wouldn't even have thought of this but now i want to build a custom one i have like a little portable one right now a towel warmer and it does the aroma therapy and it heats heats my towel up when i get out of the shower buddy dude huh just and i just looked at each other This guy goes too far.

31:51Justin probably dries his own paper towels, dude. Three showers, bro. Super rugged, super rugged. Or a towel he washes once a year. I didn't want to tell you all. He uses shop towels. Yeah, he's got like shop towels. Sandpaper, dude. Cut it down like a layer. Sham wow is what he probably uses. No, it's awesome. You put it in there and it heats it up. It's all steamy. You know when you go to a nice... No, I'm not connecting to anything you're saying right now. I know you do the steam rooms. The steam room's got stuff like that. Yeah, but I'm not getting a warm, smelly towel. Listen, you do it one time.

32:28I mean, I guess if you don't really shower hardly ever, it's not that big a deal. If you shower, it's cool. Where are you getting scented towels? Like eucalyptus? No, no, no, no. Oils? You can put whatever you want, lavender or whatever. You just drop it on the little filter. Do you have potpourri in your bathroom? No. Okay. No, no, no. You used to. Well, we have that, what's that? Poo-pourri. Yes, that's what, yeah. What? Doug knows what's up. What's it called? It's called poo-pourri. Oh, yeah. It's just a spray. That is magical, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, yeah, I buy that stuff.

32:58You better do that. Do we have it at the House of Trekkie? Yes. I think we do. Yeah, we do. You spray the water. Yes. And it covers the water in like a barrier of nice scents. It works. It does work. It punches the smell down. It's probably one of the better inventions that I've ever had. I've ever seen it. I love it. Yeah. That's a Katrina. I'd never heard of that or seen that before. She introduced that to me and I was just like, I didn't even know this. Yeah, it works. Because all the other like aerosol BS, that doesn't, it just makes it, it's like farts and aerosol together. It's like, it's like double bad.

33:29Flower farts. Yeah. It's like, this doesn't work. But the toilet thing, it does. It has like, it like, it has some sort of. Unless it comes out of the water. Then you're, then it doesn't work. Sorry. All right, guys. All right, Doug. I'll change subjects, Doug. I'll change subjects. Hey, listen. towel warmer though you'll appreciate that no I saw those at Costco actually oh I think that's probably where she got it and I'm telling you I would have never it wasn't even on my list I didn't think nothing of it when I opened it up I'm like what is this and then I'm like okay I could do you guys have warm toilet seats too no you don't do that I heard about those they're common in Japan because their bathrooms are very cold well my downstairs bathroom the heater of it is right next to it so that seat's always warm in the morning so it is like a nice I'm down with that for sure alright I got to talk about, do you guys hear about these daycare fraud centers in Somalia?

34:17The Somalia thing? Yeah, they're not in Somalia. They call them Somali because they're immigrants in - What state is it, Doug? In Minnesota. Is it Minnesota? Yeah. Did you guys hear about this? I did. I saw the clip. Okay, so I heard, I don't know if this is - So much money. So some YouTuber - $350 million or something? Dude. Some YouTuber figured it out, and then they started digging, and they started finding and there's a bunch of them, and they're all like a million and a half, two million, four million dollars of taxpayer money, and they're not real. They're staged. He was going direct to the daycare centers and asking where the kids are.

34:50There's nobody in there. Bro, they're doing these investigations. They're finding people. These are Somali immigrants that go in. They set up these fake daycares. There's no kids in there, and they're just collecting money from the state, and they would leave with a million dollars of cash in their suitcases and bring it back home. a million dollars in cash. They also found huge scams where they were registering their kids as having autism to collect more money from the state. So when you see the autism rates in Minnesota exploded over five years, they went and investigated. These kids don't have autism.

35:22But they're just real easy, apparently, to collect this money. There's just hundreds of millions of dollars. There's just fraud everywhere. There's a special place in hell for people like that. This is crazy. That's bad. That's crazy. And there was a guy that went into some of these daycares because he's like uncovering it. He walks in. It's empty. Yeah. They're just getting money. I saw that it was like some YouTuber that figured it out. And then he brought a bunch of people involved. They pulled all the stuff up. And they were all over the place. It's crazy. I mean, how does that even happen?

35:52How do you get away with that? From the top. Yeah, dude. Yeah, that's how I feel. That's my point of asking. That's not like somebody can't just put together that. It's not like an oversight. There's got to be somebody up there that's like pushing that through. It's either extreme, extreme negligence or there's like more fraud that goes up to the top. So these are daycares. You would think there'd be like inspections. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's why there has to be somebody. And for that many to get away with it. It's not like one was found to hustle. Here in California too. Tons are happening that has to go through some sort of like regulations or something.

36:30And somebody has to be just stamping that, pushing it through. And you know what's going on. and you're making some sort of a kick. There's no way. Right? Yeah. And it's crazy because how much, and this is like hard earned, this is people's tax money. So they're spending money on taxes. They're not getting good services. The city's got crime, you know, pothole, whatever. Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of dollars are just getting doled out to people doing nothing. This is the stuff I have to walk out because I'm just like, it just makes me angry because I'm like, okay, so when are the arrests happening?

37:02When are people going to prison for this? and then you don't see anything happen. You're like, oh. Which also makes you believe that it's higher up, right? Yeah, it's covered up. I feel like if it was like one evil person doing it, it would be all over the place. It'd make the news, and there'd be like this whole big arrest, and it'd be a big case. We saved millions of dollars. How many people are going to care, dude? That's what I'm waiting for. Crazy, crazy. There was a study that came out on ADHD medications with fMRI technology to see what's happening in the brain. And so what they're finding with ADHD medication is it's not working the way they thought.

37:38So what they thought that they were doing was it was literally helping the focus centers of the brain. So the centers of the brain that help you focus, they're like, when we do these fMRI studies, we should be able to see those light up and become more active. And that's not what happened. What they're finding is it's lighting up the pleasure and reward centers of the brain. So what it does is it just makes whatever you're doing more pleasurable. so something that's boring suddenly you're like it's not as boring and therefore you want to do it more but that has really bad implications because you're messing with the reward centers of the brain so now we're starting to agree that giving kids meth was not a good idea i like when you say it like that well i mean i feel like this will be the member remember when we look back at those old ads was like in the 50s or was it before where it was like you know uh the for cocaine for your wife you know i'm saying it's like all those no that was those were amphetamines all right There were envenemies back then.

38:30I feel like we're going to have like, we're going to look back in 20, 30 years about the stuff that we did with that. It's just, it's crazy. It is. It is crazy. I didn't know how bad it was. It wasn't until I was 30 before I even tried one of those pills before. I had no idea what that was like. And I know it was the lowest dose that they prescribed. And the feeling that I had - And kids take more. Yes, like four or five times more. I know. And I told you this about my godson is that they want, like these doctors are so quick to do that. Kids, you got a kid who is rambunctious, loves to play sports.

39:08He's like active like that. And they have a hard time with getting him to settle down in school. And so it's like, oh, here's what we give him. It's because it produces results. So what's the result you're looking for? I want my kid to sit still and get better grades. Yeah. And that'll probably do that. Yeah, you turn him into a zombie. But are you making him a better kid? Are you, what's actually happening? And then how does the brain model and mold itself? Because as a child, your brain's shaping still. It's still growing. And so when you're hammering the reward centers, it'll mold itself because of this.

39:39And could you have lasting, long lasting changes? And you know what it's like? It's not that different because that could bring up old medical procedures that sound so barbaric, but they did them because they also produced results. Lobotomy is a good example. You know what lobotomy is? so you would have let's say a schizophrenic patient they would go in they cut out a little piece of the brain and then this crazy person suddenly became docile and calm and would do what you asked them to do and could come into just to society and so it was like this medical breakthrough that they would promote there's ads you can look up the ads yeah these old ads are like you know hey you know and they would show before and after in some of these pictures here's this crazy woman and then right after the lobotomy and she looks all calm and docile like oh this is a miracle yeah crazy yeah it's crazy i mean i what i think is as you know it's not as crazy but and been talking about this for a long time i've been talking about it since you guys were making fun of me when i was talking about the book irresistible and i've seen i've been i see now clips i'm seeing it all over the internet now people sharing like these kids that are they're taking their iPads away from them and just losing their minds, losing their minds, I had throwing stools and screaming.

40:53Can I tell you what happened? I saw videos of kids like laying there without it and like doing this with their hands. Can I tell you what happened to my son? So my niece is staying with us now and she's an adult. She's 18 years old and she plays Fortnite sometimes. And we're all together and she's like, Hey, can we put the, can we put Fortnite on the big TV out here? And maybe we could play a little bit. I go, let's give it a shot. So she put it out there. And my four-year-old is like, hey, can I try? So we're like, sure. What's the big deal? We're all watching. So he played Fortnite. And he was playing for, I don't know, 30 minutes maybe.

41:28Maybe 30 minutes. We tried to take him off through a tantrum. He doesn't do that anymore. Through a freaking tantrum. And my wife and I looked at each other. We're like, this is never again. Now, to contrast that, we were at my cousin's house. and my cousin has an old arcade system with old games from the 90s. I've told you about this with Nintendo. Still fun and entertaining. Yep. And he still likes it. He was up there playing or whatever and I went up there, hey, five more minutes, buddy, and we'll take you off. No problem. They're so engineered. I told you that with Max, with the Nintendo. I mean, I have that.

42:03He hasn't asked me to play that in a year. Yeah. He's like so... I mean, if I coerce him to come up and play with me, he'll play with me and watch and do it a little bit like that. but like at any moment in the middle of the game i could stop and be like oh we gotta go down and eat and like okay and walk away from it you let them get in front of all these ipad cartoons you let them get in front of one of these games that they've created on there like they get sucked into that and you're but what my point of bringing that up though is i'm now seeing more people finally talking about it i mean we've been we've been talking about this on the podcast for eight eight years or so now.

42:37And it's become more and more apparent to a lot of these parents what's happening. And so now you're starting to see people come out and counter a lot of it. So it's going to be interesting to see how we regulate that in the next couple years. If you're going to see less and less schools adopt it, more and more parents who say no to it. Because it's wild, man, to watch how some of these kids act when you pull it away from it. It's crazy. Doug, maybe you could look this up. I saw a study that showed, look up brain changes from Reels study. If I'm not mistaken, they did a study on people who looked at Reels.

43:14You can scroll through Reels real quick. Yeah. And they showed some pretty, well, some not good results, like brain damage kind of results from people just scrolling through Reels all the time. Maybe find that, Doug. See if there's a study on that. Look up brain changes in Reels. Yeah, I found something here. You found it? Yeah, pull up an article and see. because I saw some memes and sometimes they're not accurate. Remember when we had the guy on the show who tried to defend it after, remember who was like a lobbyist for - Wow, look at it. Studies suggest that heavy consumption of short form videos, so reels, lead to brain changes like reduced attention, impaired focus, and weaker cognitive control by training the brain for fast, shallow input impacting deeper thinking and rewarding instant gratification via dopamine loops.

44:00yeah that's can you copy and paste that and send that to our group's head for me yeah uh i've just i've been trying to really convince my my my buddies that are like not well it's alluring if you're like busy and it keeps your kid you know you know yeah no i get that no i i get that it's a it's like it's an incredible babysitter because it gets sucks the kids in i mean you you want the kids to be quiet and do that but it's like i mean to your point like i mean do you want to if you just want to give them a drug to also put them out like that like you're and i think why we as a society are justifying is because it is in some pharmaceutical that we're giving there but i think similar effects but right but to think that it hasn't been engineered to do similar effects in the brain is is crazy to not think that and and not understand and then also like man we're still in the beginning phases of this like we're only like i i mean we're now approaching what 20 years the iphone what are we at right now we're coming up on 20 i think so so we're we're somewhere around there i mean we're on iphone 15 right now right so i think it's 17 is it i think so yeah i think it's oh is it yeah so we're coming up on 20 20 years of that but then and then instagram was what maybe right behind that or whatever like that and then tiktok right behind that so we really haven't seen like a full generation of people that have like completely it's just now raised on it yeah it's just starting to happen right now and then what those people look like as 30 year old adults and stuff you know yeah almost 19 years 19 years that's crazy Anyway, I got a supplement that I added to my – I don't know if I add more supplements to my regime.

45:30But I saw a study, a long study. It was a year-long study on natokinase. I think I'm saying that right. Am I saying that right, Doug? Maybe it's natokinase. Natokinase, okay. Possibly. Incredible heart health benefits, blood vessel benefits. Where do you find it? Oh, it's a very common supplement. Where is it found naturally? I know the Japanese – natto which is a Japanese fermented bean there it is it's good for the blood it's good for blood vessel health and heart health significant changes they saw in a year improvements in people's heart health now is this only found in Japanese beans or is this like in regular beans we don't see it in other beans I don't think so see where it comes from Doug see if there's other places but I added it to my regime because of the heart health benefits on it were just profound and many other studies so it's really interesting which which leads me i got a bone to pick with you guys okay yeah so we all did that that full body mri yeah here we go well yeah so we all did a full there's a full body mri we did that looks at everything it looks at every organ it looks at every system your spine cardiovascular reproductive system neuro brain everything stomach so these guys so get we got our results right so i think it was doug first all of us paranoid as shit so yeah dude how would you feel right before you pulled up your results i was nervous i was nervous as shit dude i don't care you don't say something i mean because that's their date would you say one in 20 they find something they find something that they catch something early right right yeah and they're in the and they tell remind me too like they could see like cancers like how far before you'll get stage one yeah and then you go you just do further investigation which is and okay so the good thing about this is uh you know most cancers are very treatable if you catch them really early.

47:23The problem with a lot of cancers, you don't get symptoms until they're stage four. Yeah. And then that's a problem. So anyway, it's really, and those look at your heart, you have heart enlargement, your prostate size, they'll look at, you know, your spine, your discs, you know, and all that stuff. So it's really, really, it's really incredible. So anyway, Doug sends his first, hey guys, I'm good. You know, everything's clear. Adam next, Justin. So I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have fun with you guys. So I sent a reply and said, hey, I'll have to talk to you guys at work Monday. And I waited. I waited for one of you guys to care.

47:51nobody cared we know your we know your method Sal nobody called me nobody was like what did you see I wait I told Jessica I'm like watch this I knew that I knew his baitiness all of us knew we were getting baited nothing we know you that well Sal even though we all talked about it first this dude was refreshing his email first you're the biggest hyperchondriac out of all of us you for sure you probably already called the doctor like hey I just want to double check is everything okay with me over there I'm like if anything he's obsessing over something that's small yeah you know I'll just let him work this out over the weekend.

48:23Literally, I told Jessica, watch this. Waited. Nothing. I was really surprised. Came to work, nobody cared. What's cool is they have levels to it. They even tell you stuff where there's any sort of... Like minor. Yeah, minor. I had two things that were my shoulders, which I thought was... They said they were weak. That is not the term they used. It was a little bit of my AC joint. Yeah, both my AC joints. I don't have any... What I was hoping or what I thought might pop up was my pec minor tear or whatever I thought would pop up and that's what it was. And so I thought it was related to that one side.

49:07But then when I looked at it, I was like, oh, they're saying both sides, it's a little bit of degenerate. And then on my low back, which I knew this, I've talked about this before, like one of the things I've connected for a long time, and again i have like i have a lower lordosis you know i have this extreme instagram yeah that's what i said i have this i've got instagram a butt model syndrome yes syndrome going on he's always exposing right and so i know that i mean even when i'm on planes i'll i'll like i'll activate my core and yeah so like i i've always known that i know when i don't train even just like walking around i'll feel kind of my low back will bother me a little bit but if i'm training like if i'm in When I'm on my training routine, it feels so good.

49:45And so I had a little bit of disc degeneration there, and then I had the two-shoulder stuff. But it was minor. You know, I talked to years ago. I used to train a lot of surgeons. And I remember one of them said something to me, and it blew me away. But it's true. He said, I was talking about herniated disc and bulging disc. He goes, Sal, if you MRI'd 100 people right now, random people with no pain, you will see a significant percentage of them will have some kind of bulging herniated disc. And they'll have no symptoms. and then you'll see people without any disc issues and have severe back pain.

50:18So just for people, if you did a scan like this, because I had a couple bulging discs here and there. My back has never hurt. It never hurts. It's indestructible, I would say. But I do have a couple slight bulging and then my cervical spine. Where'd they find yours? I don't even remember. Yeah, I think it was like hip and lower back, but I don't even feel that. Yeah, yeah. I did see that I had shoulder surgery. It looked like you had this surgery on your left shoulder. Oh, wow. I knew that. Oh, wow. That's true. I was worried about my esophagus and stuff that I was going through with my heartburn.

50:50But apparently, I do have a hyaluronid hernia. So it's like one of those minor things you just got to deal with. Well, you could treat it, I think. I think so. What's the treatment for? Is it surgery? Yeah. I think it's surgery. Well, look it up, Doug, because I am almost positive I knew someone who did that. It was a life-changing. It made a big difference. Yeah. Because otherwise, you're getting that constant. Yeah, but then the scope, everything is like shoving things down your throat. It's just been deterring me from knowing. You know, I know where this leads. I don't want to do this. Calm down, guys.

51:23Calm down. Get back to your bulge disc. I've heard the same thing, right, that if you do that to 100 people and you'll get some people with like a 3 millimeter and they're in no pain whatsoever, and then you have somebody that has no bulge whatsoever, and then the back pain. I would love to see the correlation between that and the training of people because that that just because of my own experience like I like I don't have any back problems or issues so long as I'm training and I obviously it has probably a lot to do with my core being strong and being trained and that is what works as first the your your vacuum that's right I used to give this with clients I'd always give them that analogy listen you have these 28 muscles that wrap around your spine and most people don't train that don't work and so it's weak and so your spine's like this all kinds of pressure on it.

52:08We get that really strong and it sucks up like a vacuum around that and supports it. Your discs are meant to cushion movement but not support the movement. Right. That's where... And so I would love to see that is there a correlation with the people that more to that that are like pain or no pain that are related to this weak and unstable? I can tell you I've had many clients who have MRIs and they come to me with back pain because they're referred to me by some of my doctor clients. Severe back pain. her needed disc here i might have to get fusion there then we train the back pain's gone then they get the mri and the disc is still messed up this has been my experience also yeah and that and it's such a bummer because a lot of people who are deconditioned they don't train then they go get that diagnosis then they're like afraid to squat they're afraid to do all these exercises because their doctor says they have a bulge disc and they have this chronic low back pain and it's like yeah but watch what happens when we drop about 10 pounds of 10 to 15 pounds of body fat i get you strong we build and develop this core and then but then but a lot of times hesitant and afraid to because they've told doctors said something like don't load don't load your spine don't do anything like that and so they're scared to death to do that but in in my experience the people that we've been able to train and get strong like that and my own personal experience i noticed that chronic pain i got low back pain i get uncomfortable walking for 30 minutes if i'm deconditioning back surgeries someone's gonna get mad for me saying but back surgeries don't have a great record.

53:35They just, they don't. You know when they have a good record? When they do them on fit, healthy people who do great therapy afterwards and exercise. Yeah. Otherwise, they tend to not have a great - It's very dependent on that, yeah. Yeah, dude. There's some joints that surgeries have a high success rate. The spine is not one of them. So you go get back surgery, it's like you better absolutely need it. Better train. And you better be strong going into it and strengthen afterwards. Otherwise, it's like one back surgery. Look at the data on this. One back surgery, often leads to another one and another one and another one.

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54:42Our first caller is Naomi from Washington. Hi, Naomi. How you doing, Naomi? Good. How are you guys? Good. How can we help you? Good. First of all, thank you guys so much for everything you guys do. I'm grateful for the valuable information you've brought to my life. And I pray for you guys and your families as a thank you. Thank you so much. How can we help you? My question is, I want to go into the new year with a plan. So what program should I run and what should I do nutrition wise? I'm 28. I've struggled with my weight my whole life. My highest was somewhere around 260 and I'm currently at 196.

55:20In the past two years, I focused on eating protein and being more consistent with it. I ran my first cut at the end of June to the end of September and it was a success. I went from 216 to 194. Since my cut, I've been eating less strictly and I need to get back on tracking, but I've checked in with my weight and it's only fluctuated between 2-3 pounds. I've stopped cutting in September in hopes of doing things the right way, but then I wasn't intentional about getting back to maintenance. My cut was 1 ,800 to 2 ,000 calories. Program-wise, I ran anabolic on repeat for a year, and then muscle mommy, then split, then tried aesthetic, but it was too much volume.

56:01I'm currently running performance 15, but I have a bit of a back-slash-shoulder injury. I noticed that I have some imbalances like in my hamstrings because I got ACL surgery a long time ago and just never recovered from it. And then just non-dominant and dominant imbalances. So my thought was symmetry. And ideally, I want to cut. But if you guys give me a blueprint, I'll just do it. Closed eyes, head first. Yeah, good. Great job. Symmetry is a good program. By the way, you are killing it. Thank you. Yeah, great job. Okay, so. And to be able to kind of intuitively eat and only see like a little bit of a fluctuation is also really a huge one too.

56:41Well, that tells me that you've built some good strength. You've got some good metabolic flexibility going on. Yeah, I've always been an athlete too, so I don't know if it's kind of like a natural thing, but I think I'm stronger than usual, I guess. That's good. Well, I mean, you've been strength training consistently now for a little while. You see what your squat is? No, what is it? 270. Oh, God. You're really strong. Yeah. I think symmetry would be good. And I think if you focused on eating around maintenance with some little interruptions with little cuts here and there, I think you would get, you'd have this nice, consistent overtime progress that would happen.

57:22Now you could do more of an aggressive cut, but I would leave that up to you on how that makes you feel both not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically around food. but if you want to I mean honestly if you just kind of ate at maintenance and then did like a two or three week cut here and there and then went back to maintenance and kind of fluctuated back and forth I mean you're going to just over time your body's going to keep changing keep yep which you're going to keep getting stronger and having body composition changes with a nice metabolism when you weren't really kind of tracking and you're just kind of intuitively eating and you and you stayed in that kind of the weight range where do you think you were hitting protein or do you think you were light on protein i think i was a bit lighter on protein if i'm being honest so i i think so my strategy with you would be just to mainly focus on that i think the way you're lifting how strong you are switching a program up like that eating when you're hungry but focusing on hitting that protein on a consistent basis i bet you build muscle and kind of naturally if you stayed away from processed foods and exchange yeah you stayed away from like processed foods and sweets and eating out and just did what adam said you're gonna get body composition change yes i think you'll just you'll get stronger you'll lean out inches will come down and you'll be eating in a satisfied place versus like let's try and reverse aggressively and then cut aggressively you're in a really good place especially with your strength training and then i think if you just consistently hit that protein you'll feed that muscle building yeah i have one question for you naomi yeah how is the process been for you is it have you enjoyed this process has it been kind of like a struggle well since i found your podcast it's been so much fun oh it's been way better um i think i've gotten to a place where i'm realizing like even the parts where i'm struggling i'm still making progress that's awesome you're this is perfect you're awesome you're in a great place you're enjoying the process yeah yeah let's not change anything do what i said totally and keep going and you're young you're gonna see like this is gonna be great.

59:23It'll keep going. Yeah. You're going to end in a place, Naomi, if you, if you do this consistently, you're going to end in a place with a really fast revved metabolism and nice body composition. You're going to feel good. Hormones will be balanced. So if you're, if you're training well and you're eating whole foods, don't be afraid to eat when you're hungry. Uh, just focus on the protein. Like you hear us talk about all the time. Like, cause that's what will kind of naturally happen is if you're hovering around where you're at, your strength training, right, you're really prioritizing protein, you're going to start building muscle and then the appetite is going to start to increase.

59:57And then don't feel like you have to restrict it. Feed it, but feed it with good choices. And as long as you feed it with good choices, high protein meals like that, you watch what happens. You're just going to continue. You'll naturally reverse diet without like trying to reverse diet. Totally. Right. And that'll be a much healthier way to do it. You'll feel good while you do it. Before you know it, you'll be eating way more calories and you'll be leaner. Okay. Cool. Sounds good. I can, I ask one more tiny question. Um, I'm my husband's a high school girls basketball coach. And right now I'm running, um, performance 15 with them too, but we get into the gym like one day a week.

1:00:36How would I play that out? What would be the best way to arrange that? So you mean for the girls or for yourself? For the girls, for the girls. So there's strength training just once a week. Yeah. Once, maybe twice a week. And they're doing, how often are they practicing and all that stuff? What else are they doing? They practice six days a week. Oh. Or they have games when they don't have practice. Oh, they're doing three lifts. That's it. Yeah, they're going in. They're picking three major lifts. They're doing low reps, not to failure. Yeah, high school, you're looking at like squat, deadlift, overhead press, you know, bench press, row.

1:01:14Yeah, so like one workout would be a squat variation to start with. another workout would be like a deadlift variation um and then do like a couple upper body exercises and that's it you know okay so just strap performance 15 then and do like a baseline uh big lift work yeah yep yep do you uh do you have symmetry already i don't oh let us send you the full send that over to you okay thank you yeah you got it we do you have symmetry 15 or do you want symmetry which one uh symmetry all right we'll send that to you we haven't released yeah yeah yeah we'll send that over thank you guys so much i appreciate you got it hey keep it up you know what just dawned on me what is that we don't have that program no no we do have it out yeah oh when this airs it'll be out so we're good i just knew yeah I actually had no idea.

1:02:14Here's this dawned on me, right? You guys, I know you remember this. Remember in our space, there used to be like, these are healthy foods. These are unhealthy foods. That was what everybody understood. Then it turned into there is no healthy, unhealthy food. You know, you can overeat healthy food too, and that'll make you gain weight. Technically, that's true. And I think that that message, although technically you could overeat calories calories in any kind of food and cause fat gain i think what a terrible message because it confused the heck out of people uh because uh the quote-unquote unhealthy foods make you overeat so like what we just told her we didn't tell her to track anything we just said hey hit your protein and stick to whole natural foods eat when you're hungry what naturally happens in combination with strength training what does body composition change yeah i've never appropriately i've never had a client who i allow to eat as much as they want so long as it's whole foods and they hit their protein while they're a strain training put on body fat we put on muscle that's right you put on muscle and that's just a natural limiter yes is it possible yeah of course you could press it but yeah and and if you you know eat 60 whole foods and 40 processed yeah but if you truly choose whole foods and high protein meals slash snacks it's like you'll be fine yep yep you'll be fine and listen to that appetite that appetite most times it's an appropriate appetite yeah it'll steer you that hey we need to be fed we need more calories for what we're doing and then it'll be this nice natural reverse diet our next caller is jessica from utah hi jessica how's it going great how are you good um so before i kick off with my question i do have to say go park city um actually your neighbor uh we're in the neighborhood right across the way from you.

1:04:05Yeah. But my question is actually surrounding what long-term maintenance and looks like, um, to give you some context, the past three years have kind of been a rollercoaster for me training and fitness wise, uh, in April of 2023, I actually landed in the hospital unexpectedly, unexpectedly for two weeks. Um, they had no clue what was wrong with me. And after a lot of drugs, sleepless nights in pain, they actually had to do exploratory surgery to find that my appendix had wrapped around my small intestine causing an intestinal blockage. So I left the hospital pretty emaciated and with what felt like very little muscle left for my recovery, I really bowed to get as strong as I could and actually started listening to the podcast around that time.

1:04:59So I started on this journey actually with your split program, started lifting, was going from very, very low weight, and then started increasing throughout 2023 and 2024. After split, I did aesthetic. And then kind of fast forward to the summer of 2024, I was pretty much the strongest I've ever been in my lifetime. um late fall of 2024 I started a slow cut to prepare for my wedding in the summer of 2025 um and got pretty lean while maintaining some pretty good muscle um and then this past October 2025 um I had another surgery where I couldn't do my regular workouts um gained a little bit of weight back.

1:05:47And then just recently actually started resuming activity and made sure I started eating more to really help that healing and recovery. I'm now actually officially cleared to work out again, but I've been easing back into lifting and activity just at a slow pace. So my question for you all is after a long journey of kind of slow building, slow cutting, and then kind of a mix of these surgeries and the whole mix there. I'm really at a place now where I'm looking to have a good maintenance routine to live a healthy life while enjoying the things that I like to do. I like to hike. I like to ski. I like to go wine tasting, eat food, like just a healthful life.

1:06:44um what i've found is that i'm not quite sure i really have a good grasp of what long-term maintenance is supposed to look like uh i have a more of a type personality that's always striving for better performance or a goal in mind so i was wondering if there was a good lifting rotation or focus that you would think would be appropriate for this mindset or lifestyle and what that might look like long-term? Good question. So I'll give you generally what this would look like, and then I'll get a little bit more specific for maybe what next steps would look like for you. Generally speaking, if for, you know, having this kind of lifelong relationship with exercise and nutrition, which is kind of what you're explaining, like how do I have this lifelong relationship with it where I'm maintaining and kind of targeting good health, Your workouts and your nutrition are going to change all the time.

1:07:38And I don't mean daily, but they're going to change depending on the context of your life. So there are going to be moments. Now, this requires that you make sure that the target and the focus is health. But this is going to look like sometimes I'm focusing more on mobility. Other times I'm going to be focusing more on strength. Other times, recovery, relaxation, flexibility, stamina. Your diet is going to look like nourishing yourself. I feel like I need to eat more or I feel like I'm overdoing it a little bit right now. I need to bring it back. Maybe I need a little bit more fiber. I feel a little bit inflamed.

1:08:18And so you want to look at your diet and your exercise as ways to improve the quality of your life, regardless of the context of your life. Okay, so, you know, let's say you have a baby. Well, your workout's totally going to look different, and so is your diet. Let's say you have a period of time where you've got nice, good time on your hands, you're sleeping great, no injuries. You're like, yeah, I think I'd like to sprint for a bit and see what I could do and maybe hit a PR and whatever. Essentially, you're enjoying the whole process, and the journey is what you're enjoying, and that's what it looks like lifelong.

1:08:52Now, to be more specific for someone like you, I see up here that you did a recent body scan and you're kind of estimating what you think your calories are at. Is that OK if I go over that a little bit? Absolutely. Yeah. So I did a recent body scan. They had me at approximately 15 percent body fat, 137 pounds, and I'm five foot eight. um this was after like i said i got pretty lean for the wedding um after the surgery i wasn't really able to do any activity other than some light walking uh so made sure like i bumped my calories a little bit there so honestly like the 15 i know it's relatively low right now um but that i was probably even a little lower than that prior to the surgery as well so what most what this will look like for most women is a fluctuation.

1:09:45Body fat will fluctuate throughout your life, depending on what's going on, but you're probably going to sit somewhere in the low 20s. It's what healthy, fit, hormone balanced, like body fat percentage typically looks like in women. Now that's give or take, there's genetic variances with people, but getting in the teens, especially the mid-teens, that's typically too low. So someone like you, if you were my client and you know that's most the information i know obviously things would get more individualized but i would we'd be we'd be trying to feed you while strength training and i'd want to actually see your body fat go up of course i'd want to see strength go up but i'd want to see your body fat go up as well and so what would that typically look like for someone with my numbers currently like is that something where i would go on a reverse diet and then follow like a three-day a week program or probably yeah yeah like a maps anabolic type of a program and you can easily where you're at calorie wise and because you're so lean right now we could easily jump to three 500 calories more a day easy easily and you'll feel you'll feel really good yeah within days and you're going to build muscle on that way too and even if you put a percent or two of body fat on why we do that it'll be okay so you could someone who was like a hot much higher body fat percentage we would probably creep them up slower, like 150, 200 calories.

1:11:04But you're plenty lean enough to afford, you know, a three to 500 minimum jump and still be okay. Especially if you choose good foods, right? We're targeting high protein, whole foods. You make good choices. Now, have you ever, do you know, like intentionally, have you ever gone up the calories that high? I know you mentioned like having wine. Okay, so this is. Yeah, so I like to give a little bit of context, Even when I did like a slow bulk after my surgery in 2023, I mean, it was a year long process where I was probably increasing my calories. I don't know, 100 per day, per week. Right. I've never done anything where I'm eating anywhere close to 3000 calories a day, though.

1:11:50I think even during that process, I think the highest that I got to is about 2500. You could jump to 25 right now. Right now. Yeah. Yeah. you always jump to oh yeah oh yeah you'll feel great yeah you're gonna get strong you'll feel good yeah you're probably you're not gonna see much fat gain to be honest with you yeah you'll just see some not if you're not if you're strength training if you're following like a maps and a ball routine with it and your protein targets absolutely okay that's always been the that's been the difficult thing for me because like i eat very clean um a very very small percentage of my diet is processed foods or things like alcohol.

1:12:25It's just, so it's harder for me to eat a lot, I guess. And I try to have a pretty high fiber diet as well. And after my first surgery, because it was, you know, it involved my intestines, they had me on a low fiber diet to start out with. And then I had to increase over time. So I guess I've never done like a true bulk in the sense of increasing to that level of calories i would i would use things like uh high fat cottage cheese higher fat cuts of meats ribeyes tri-tip there's chicken thighs stay away from the super lean cuts all the time and that'll add naturally olive oil on your vegetables yeah you know there's two things two challenges typically we'll see with someone like you uh when we're bumping up calories.

1:13:12One is you may have developed a relationship with food where you don't feel comfortable eating in a place that's actually satisfying. It actually kind of feels full. And so there's a little bit of ignoring that. So it's like, nah, you got to push yourself a little bit. And then you just kind of recalibrate your relationship to food. So that tends to be a thing. And by the way, now the other thing is someone may just have a lower appetite. Now proper strength training tends to spike that a bit because you're trying to build muscle. But the other side of that is, you know, when I, when I'm dealing with someone like that and genuinely they've eaten so low calories for so long, even if we're doing good strength training, they're kind of like, Oh, I don't know if I can eat that much and I'll push them a little bit.

1:13:52I mean, there are hyper palatable whole food options, you know, like ground beef, you know, 85 % ground beef with rice, throw a little avocado in there, you know, like a, like, whole food uh you know good option and in and it's it's more palatable right like if i'm eating like chicken breast oh yeah with broccoli and brown rice or something like that yeah good luck that's tough so so there are some some more palatable whole food options but you you'll feel great right out the gates yeah and you know the other question i have for you too jessica is how do you know if you want to kind of break free from the you know kind of the grip like wrapping your arms around the whole thing and tracking all the time.

1:14:36Like this is the direction you want to go. You definitely want to go in this direction. Yeah. That's really what I'm looking for. Um, it's kind of just been specifically a rollercoaster these past few years, but historically too, it's, um, you know, traditionally my family didn't have, um, a very healthy diet. It was something that I had to teach myself from a very young age. and I think a portion of you know trying to learn how to do that when I was younger is you know listening to all the fads that were out there at the time doing the you know lean chicken breast and not doing like high fat content proteins and things of that nature so it's probably just something I'm not used to as well yeah yeah the advice for me would for you would be to hit just the only thing I'd have you really track is the protein and go after 140 grams a day and then and then take the advice that Sal and I are giving go ahead and put olive oil on your vegetables have the ground beef eat the butter in your rice yeah do stuff like that and it won't feel like you're changing a ton you're just kind of switching the meat profiles that you're having you're adding butter to rice you're adding olive oil to the vegetables and that'll naturally kind of bump the calories and it should it'll taste good should taste good should feel good it's not like you have to really focus on it.

1:15:54Here's what you'll notice. You're going to have more energy. You'll get stronger. Your skin is going to look really good. You're going to sleep really good. Your hormones are going to start to feel really balanced. So good energy, good libido, no crashes. That's what it feels like when you start feeding your body appropriately, when you start nourishing yourself a little more. You just start to feel more vibrant overall. Yeah. And so the 3000 calorie mark, let's say adding that in here relatively soon, is that like something that I could have at maintenance consistently? Or would that be a situation where I need to like taper that back a little bit and add some more in depending on my training cycle?

1:16:38It depends. But so someone like you, your height, if you're strength training you're strong uh i've seen many many women fit healthy young strength training where they can maintain very easily in the high 2000s and they're and they're and they're like 20 body fat yeah yeah okay yeah okay and that gives a lot of metabolic flexibility for you too or like you know you can enjoy your weekend sometimes and you're back on it during the week and it's not like a strict diet and you have some of that flexibility especially if you're active Like you're in park city, so I'm assuming you like to do outdoor stuff.

1:17:10Like, yeah. So yeah. Yeah. I have a, I have a desk job essentially. Um, I work from home, so I'm pretty much tied to a computer for the bulk of the day, but like even just walking in my neighborhood, it's a bunch of Hills. I'm a skier. I'm a hiker, right? Like I take advantage of being out there. So definitely active pretty consistently. And then right now I usually lift like three to four times a week. um trying to figure out like what what training program is appropriate for me like right now maps anabolic yeah yeah anabolic yeah yeah i like maps anabolic let's get you strong yeah good volume yeah i was looking for something that would be compatible with like skiing and a lot of activity right now yep yep i like that i like that and if you just if you want i don't know i mean if you want someone to take you through that we have coaches that do that i don't know if you know that or not so if that's something yeah yeah if you're interested in that we just have them call you and And they'll take you through the whole reverse diet process every step of the way.

1:18:07That would be amazing. Thank you so much. You got it. Okay, Jessica. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. Have a good one. Appreciate it. I really think we need to really hammer that message. I think most women, the context being you're exercising and all that stuff. So you're active, you're strength training, all that stuff. Most women would feel their best around 20 % body fat. so that means if you're below that you'd feel better if you were higher and if you're above that you'd feel better if you're a little lower for men it's probably around 12 13 where you just feel your best I would give a little more I'd say 18 to 22 sure there's up or down because I had a lot of female trainers that worked for me that walked around very healthy ate a lot 18 19 % so I mean I think you can be in that and they were active so that all matters too right of course your metabolism is up to that but you know like give or take right like i said for 12 for men some of them feel good at 10 or is it i you know what i also think that matters in that context too sal is like uh 18 body fat uh in a female who is very active and eats 2800 plus calories is really good yeah uh 18 body fat girl who's eating 1800 calories 1800 yes that's a different story so i think that that matters even more too is like how well you're being fed and being able to maintain that body fat percentage makes a difference.

1:19:32Our next caller is Matthew from Utah. What's up, Matthew? What's up? Hey, good morning. Merry Christmas. Yeah, me too. How can we help you? Yeah, so I guess first off, thank you guys so much. Appreciate the podcast. I found you guys in 2021 towards the end of diet I was doing, and you guys have been awesome ever since. So thank you. You got it. So to start off, I'm 43. I've been following MAPS Anabolic for years, since 2021. I've ran MAPS HIT, OCR, Aesthetic. Love them all. But yeah, I'll go into that later. I probably ran the Anabolic about five times. It has helped me get stronger. um i really do enjoy the workouts and just the full body workout i'm still overweight a lot of it sits in my midsection um my main goal has always been to lose the belly flat but i do lose motivation because i do love food a lot and i do struggle to focus on one goal where it's like you know i want to lose belly fat but i want to have longevity mobility and i just i'm like a squirrel, you know?

1:20:54Um, so I do list consistently. Um, I do get frustrated at times, um, when my endurance doesn't last or my body composition doesn't improve. And I just feel overwhelmed. I get just down that negativity hole. I really love mountain biking. It's one of the most, uh, sports that I just I've attached to um I do get gassed out going uphill a lot and that sometimes does get me demotivated to go out um but I do enjoy it especially getting with friends and all my friends are getting electric bikes and I'm still poor so I won't think I'll ever get a mountain bike electric bike so to help keep me up with them um I do want to improve my endurance So my real question is, how can I build a plan or a mindset that helps me stay consistent, keep lifting, which I do love, build endurance and last longer on the bike, and finally lose the stubborn belly fat that's been hanging on me for years?

1:21:59All right. Good question. All right. We'll start with diet. I think that's everything. Yeah. I think the training part and what he does activity-wise is fine. I think we need to dive into the nutrition stuff. So I'm sure you've heard this before. It's going to take some discipline, duh. But the most effective way to apply discipline is in a very clear black and white follow a fuel rules and stick to them. And that's that. And so I'm going to give you the ones that make the biggest impact. In fact, if you just do the ones I'm going to tell you and you're consistent with them, you will see yourself get leaner consistently over time.

1:22:38So there's two rules, okay? Okay. Number one, uh, first off, let me ask you, what's your target body weight? So I think I weighed last week. I don't weigh myself a lot. Um, but it was two 16. Okay. And what's your target body weight? Um, to be healthy, I guess. And, uh, I'd say one 65 for my height. I'm five seven. Okay. So we eat 170 grams of protein every day and only eat whole natural foods. That's it. That's it. You hit 170 and you hit whole natural foods and you eat when you're hungry and that's it. And keep working out. And you will see yourself get leaner and continue to improve in the gym if you just follow those two rules.

1:23:24That's it. Somebody who has struggled with diet consistency, okay? And if you're my client, one of the things, and I know that getting my client who has struggled with this for a long time to go from, you know, maybe all their food choices that they do to all the way to whole foods consistently is really hard. The thing that I always get them to commit first to is that, okay, if you're going to do that thing, you're going to have that snack, you're going to have that glass of wine, you're going to have that thing that is really tough for you to say no to or whatever, you go hit your protein first and then you can have it.

1:23:58And that's that psychological game of, okay, I'm not saying I can't have that thing, that I like to enjoy every once in a while, I'm going to say I can have it, but I first have to hit that protein. And that tends to solve this like 90 % of the time. And just the permission that, I'm not going to tell you, you can't ever have that thing that you like to have. And I don't know what that is for you. Like everybody's got their thing. It's a chocolate bar. It's a thing of ice cream. It's a, what is yours? All the above. Okay. So then that's what we got to be careful with this. Like, oh, just switch over to Whole Foods.

1:24:33That's it. It's that simple. It's like somebody who allows a lot of those things to, to get into, creep into their life, a better way or a better strategy for me has always been, I'm not going to just rip all those out of your life right now. What I'm going to say is step one is you go have to, you have to hit your protein first and then you can enjoy that thing. And then we start to make like modifications for those types of things. Right. So like you said, if it's all things, and I know that if you hit your protein intake, it takes at least half the day, if not three quarters a day, just to get to that protein intake.

1:25:04And so it's this like nightly snacking thing. It's like, okay, well, here's the thing you reach for normally. Let me give you an alternative that will kind of make you feel like you're getting something like that, but isn't the same thing. But if you at least start with go hit your protein first before you allow that, it tends to solve at least 80 % of the kitchen problem stuff. and then we get better at those things. Matthew, one more thing too. If you were to, if you were to, you know, take your camera and show us your cupboards and your fridge, would any of those foods be in there? Um, no. Good.

1:25:40Not right now. Good. He's like, I go grocery shopping later today. Yeah. Don't make it easy. Well, I think the hard part too is my wife and my kids don't really follow anything and they don't like it. And so it's like sometimes my aunt and I, And not putting blame on her because I should have the discipline of just saying, oh, I'm good. I can let you have a snack. But sometimes that's our kind of relaxing period is watch a show, have some ice cream. But I know I've done in the past. So in 2021, I did a work competition to lose fat. And I actually did it by falling keto in a way. Like I was 1 ,500 to 1 ,900 calories a day.

1:26:24I was following one of those app programs before I found you guys. And then it was fine. I lost weight. But, of course, like you guys have always said, like, it just doesn't, it's not sustainability. And so I gained it back. Matt, I'm going to say something to you, okay? How old's your kid? Oh, I got three. 17, 15, and 11. Okay. Okay, so if you don't do it for yourself, change these behaviors and habits for them. Because what you're going to do right now by making every time we sit down to watch a Netflix show or whatever the things you guys watch that we have a bowl of ice cream, you're setting him up or her up to be in the exact same boat you're struggling with right now.

1:27:10And I know that firsthand because I grew up in that childhood also where that was okay. That was normal. and now my whole life I have struggled with a sweet tooth to the point where I just cannot have it in my house because I know myself so well and so if you're not motivated enough to say no to that and discipline yourself for that you should do it for your kids at the very least because you're setting them up for the same struggle that you're currently going through right now and so that's the lens I would look at through this and it doesn't mean they can never have ice cream okay ever again but it means uh that's not a normal thing that we do that every like night or most nights or several nights a week it becomes a very rare special occasion that we do something like that because dad doesn't do that and you're leading the house so if if you don't if you have a hard time finding the motivation for yourself motivate yourself because of what you're you're potentially setting your kids to struggle but honestly matthew if you don't have a lot of that in the house and if you hit your protein and stick to whole foods and those are the only rules you follow you're going to crush the reason why keto worked for you and some people is because it's a very hard and fast rule no carbs right so say i'll just do that and so it automatically drops your calories what the what the advice we're giving you is far more balanced and sustainable uh so just just do that and you'll be totally totally set and adam's right you the what'll happen and the data shows us uh very consistently it's not 100 but it's very consistent that dad kind of leads the leads the habits in the house so you don't have to force everybody it's just like oh we don't have it in the house yeah and then it just slowly it's not gonna happen overnight you might get a little him and ha especially got teenagers but then it starts to slowly just kind of be that way yeah that makes sense when when and this might not say a dumb question but just maybe overthinking it withhold foods greek yogurt things like that like you're fine you know there's a process no you're fine some of the foods no no that's good so greek yogurt cottage cheese those are those are great those are those are great late night snacks or while you're sitting there that's right yeah i was a greek yogurt and pineapple i mean uh yeah greek yogurt and pineapple is what i was snacking on last night blend a little uh whey protein powder and your greek yogurt and freeze it and put it on a rice cake and yeah it's a dessert okay yeah and then kind of directing towards Justin because you've also mentioned a lot of heartburn issues you've had yeah um and that's one thing I liked about keto because I did notice my heartburn go away um do you think natural food just doing the natural foods would also help or should I be more less carby yeah it's an individual thing like have you been able to tease that out with carbs like specifically like in different types because I I kind of have for myself and um but it did take a process of elimination type of diet and so reintroducing it really slowly seeing kind of the effects sometimes there's a delayed effect too so with me is like dairy was a delayed more of a delayed effect so like a day or two days later is when I would get a bad reaction to that but you know so I would definitely take that time to assess like when you are bringing foods like that in how it's affecting that but cutting it off like i don't know for you but for me like seven o 'clock even like eating eight o 'clock the latest possible life life changer for me i i found for most most my clients the things that they tend to be okay with are the like the sweet potato yams uh quinoa rice type of carbohydrates it's the starchier carbs breads pasta grainy stuff yeah that stuff is what tends to really, now everyone's a little individual, but for the most part, I'd say if you're pairing your meat with the carbs that I just said, sweet potato, yams, quinoa, rice, you're probably going to be pretty good.

1:31:05And if you take Justin's advice of getting it earlier in the night so you have plenty of time to digest before bed, that'll probably move you pretty far. Just that in itself. You don't have to totally eliminate carbohydrates. Yeah, that makes sense. I know just the, I mean, like you said discipline is probably the biggest and i the hardest part when i try to do whole foods is just the planning where i try to spend one day a week to like make my lunch my breakfast yeah so i can just grab it and go but yeah life is just are you who cooks you you or your wife you cook at night yeah so i mean you've probably heard me say this ad nauseum on the show i'm such a big fan of like a huge thing of ground beef and rice and you just overcook you overcook so whatever you're used to double that amount so you so you have your lunch and breakfast and then in the morning literally could crack two eggs or three eggs over in a skillet and it's ready in three minutes or less and you got yourself a high protein good tasting you know even sprinkle a little bit of cheese on it so at that you know it doesn't have to be hella boring and strict that type of eating uh consistently will really move the needle and another thing that really helps Matthew when you when you struggle like I do with sweets and those things is I notice when when I when I stay on top of my protein and I stay fed those cravings don't pull at me as hard it's when I go long periods of not eating and then I get hungry and then now all those things now all those things sound so good where it's like so for me that's why I've always been a big fan of like four to six meals in a day is because if I'm always kind of eating something, I never allow that pull, that craving to really pull at me.

1:32:46I'm always eating something that, and make good choices like that. You'll be all right. Yeah. I just have to really, uh, or not focus, but just really not let my mood trigger me. Cause I know like at work or something, like something will really frustrate me, annoy me. I just get depressed and it's like, Oh, McDonald's sounds great. Yeah. that's gonna solve everything yeah but if you brought your food with you it's you know yeah especially if you're you know looking at your finances like oh man i'm gonna buy food i just brought food yeah i also get long slow walks man the the psychological game that i had to play that i've had to teach clients in that situation because those aren't going to come and and that does sound good and there's a reason why there's you know scientific reason why that is it's that you know what maybe i will have mcdonald's but first i'm gonna eat this meal this that i brought and then if I still feel like it and it just it tends to solve that like you get it in and then you're like oh I don't have that same craving anymore but it's because I haven't ate that thing happened to me oh yeah that that greasy that greasy food from McDonald's sounds good so try reframing it like that that you're not telling yourself you can't be prepared by having the meals get the stuff out of your house and then like I said like the way I think from the father perspective is it's less about me it's a it's more about I don't want my kids to have the same struggle as i do and so you know i want i want to do it for them more than anybody else oh for sure no that's good i like that cool and so and i probably don't need to really just whatever program i'm working on just stick to that but just really more focus on your activity is good bro i think symmetry would be a good program for you yeah yeah i think that would be a good since you've ran anabolic so many times in a row uh maps have you followed symmetry yet um no i'm currently on performance right now oh performance is great yeah you're good too let me send you symmetry if you don't got it oh i appreciate that yeah you got it dude do not any any advice on like because the high uh what do you call it less weight more volume or more reps um i get very bored like like i said my adhd i'm just like i'm at eight and i'm also like wait i'm not done yet and then I'm thinking of something else and then I get bored.

1:34:57Is there any hack or anything that you would recommend? I mean, you could change things up. Get angry? Yeah, I mean, you could change things up, I guess. I mean, put more weight on the bar because when it's really fucking heavy, it's hard to think about. Yeah, that's true. Put some more weight on that bar. Listen to metal. You could also train in a way that's uh unconventional you know like that's like old time strength yeah different strong like these are programs that are very different that might uh pique your yeah your excitement a little bit yeah map setabolic is very straightforward same exercises like yeah i can see you get very comfortable and like i enjoy it like i love those and i know there's exercises in there that i can improve squat sure bench like but if you know if you're bored and you want to try something different like map strong and map symmetry and maps those are old time they're very different yeah okay cool yeah you got it dude yep awesome i really do appreciate you guys uh everything you guys bring to the table um adam your family and your um your story of getting off ketamine like that's that's awesome congratulations man that's so cool um justin And just you and your kids and your story about building the pond recently I listened to was really awesome.

1:36:21And Sal, I really do appreciate you bringing up the topic of pornography. I really appreciate your story, and that's been very helpful to me as well. So thank you all. Keep it up, Matt. Keep it up, Matt. Keep after it. Thanks. Have a good Christmas. You guys too. You too. Just to make sure we correct it. It's not ketamine you came off of. You weren't using ketamine. It was actually heroin. You're using Kratom. You bought it over the counter. What would he be like on ketamine in here? That's all I would know. Ketamine at him. I get his point. I get his point. Porn salad. But there's a difference.

1:36:57There's a difference. I feel good right now. There's definitely a difference. One of them you can just go pick up at an herbal salad. Oh, bro, you were a ketamine addiction? You guys are hardcore. You know, the thing, too, is like, listen, there always is a discipline component. Oh, bro. And so. This is why I went the kid route, bro. So when people say, you know, and look, there's easier and harder ways to do this. And so the rules we give have so many downstream effects. Right. And they're very easy rules to follow from a simplicity standpoint. Right. Because there's lots of rules I could throw at somebody.

1:37:27But there's always a discipline component, which is like, yeah, like if you go off whole foods and you're snacking on snacks and processed foods and you're eating out, you know, fast food, like it's not going to happen. Listen, I appreciate Matthew having the courage to come on and be vulnerable and share honestly everything that he struggles and challenges with. The reality is that he is actually like most people. Not everybody goes and admits that. And, you know, we tend to attract a lot of people that want to talk to us that are already fitness fanatics. But the reality is he represents the majority of people, which is what a lot of the conversations on this podcast have been inspired by.

1:38:08And I know we've taken criticism from our peers in the space over the shit like that. But it's like that's he's who I trained. That's right. Like that's the type of client that I train on. And it's and it is baby steps. And there's it's a there's a lot of layers. You know, it's not it's and it's rarely ever. I mean, he's doing great programming. He likes to do activity things. So it's not that. But it's this struggle around food and food noise and finding ways to unlock that and figure that out. But as a dad, man, to me, at least when I became a dad, one of the biggest motivators was looking through the lens of my kids.

1:38:44Him knowing at 43 years old how much this is a struggle for him. There's been no bigger motivator for me than to go, my kid right now who's six is watching everything that I do. and so therefore as bad as I want to go do that thing, I don't want him to struggle the same way I am and to me I think that's the direction he should really try and focus on. I think that will help the most. Our next caller is Rachel from Michigan. Hey, welcome back. Hey, how you doing? I'm doing good. I'm really excited to be back here and I'm thrilled that it's right before Christmas so I hope you guys have a Merry Christmas and everything and thanks again for having me back on.

1:39:25You got it. All right, give us the update. What's going on? So I actually just wrote it out and I was just going to read it. Helps with the nerves a bit. No problem. Hi, Mind Pump. Great to be back on the show. Last time I was on because I was overtraining on MAPS 15. You assessed my diet and daily life and found that it was because of my very active lifestyle and the amount of food was too low. You said to do MAPS 15 every other day or every two days and eat a protein shake in between meals. The first week I implemented just the protein shakes and they worked super good at first. I had a lot more energy for my daily life, but was still feeling a little tired and not getting stronger.

1:40:05So I tried working out every other day or every two days. It was very hard. It turns out I have an exercise addiction. I was very anxious from missing the workouts, but felt better energy levels doing MAPS 15 only two to three days a week. despite eating more and exercising less I still did not get stronger but I finally stopped losing weight now my schedule is a little bit different as I was laid off in November for the winter season I'm still fairly active but I'm struggling with eating enough and not overdoing it I think I tend to have high cortisol which causes me to have kind of a wired energy and when I miss or when I miss workouts, I feel very anxious and itchy like I'm not doing enough.

1:40:49My goal is to get stronger and leaner and develop a healthy exercise relationship where I rule the exercise and it does not rule me. I also have a goal of getting rid of the weird, itchy, anxious feeling I get when I feel like I'm not working hard enough. I feel like I'm still under eating, especially now since my schedule changed. I don't always get the two protein shakes a day. I tracked one day and I'm eating 2 ,200 calories with 148 grams of protein and 156 grams of carbs. Eating more does scare me. I really don't want to gain fat. I just want to gain muscle. Since we talked last, I'm two pounds heavier.

1:41:30I feel a little stronger, but my lifts are still pretty similar. I just feel more stable in them, if that makes sense. I've switched over to Matt's Power Lift and I'm halfway through it. I've been enjoying it um I know I have so much potential because my lifts are pretty low I just need some guidance and help breaking like the exercise addiction and the fear of overeating um I really hope you guys can help thank you Rachel if I recall you were like you're you were a machine in terms of the amount of work you were doing every day can you give me this was before what were you doing again before because I vaguely remember you was like a farm you worked on or something like that uh yeah i was a park ranger in the summer so i was like doing a lot of weed whipping and stuff and taking care of campers and hiking and then i also have like my animals at home i take care of in my garden i do and everything and then i like make dinner and everything for the family so i remember crazy step crazy amount of steps every day right weren't you like over 18 000 something yeah yeah i was yeah probably about that so i remember okay now I remember.

1:42:35So here's the thing, Rachel, this is going to feel uncomfortable. There's no way around this. So there's no way for us to do this without you feeling uncomfortable because we got to move you out of this place that you're in. You're going to have to eat more and it's going to feel like you're force feeding yourself. Okay. And it's going to feel like that for a while until you settle into it. There's, there's ways though, in tips within the foods that we can creep those calories in without making it feel like you're having to have this whole other meal though like if you break break like give me the the three meals you probably ate to hit 2200 calories what are we looking at um i would like i would drink like a protein shake when i got up and then i would eat like my breakfast after um my workout which would be like beef jerky with some butter milk and yogurt and cottage cheese and then i'd have almost the same thing for lunch because it's like my favorite thing to eat and then dinner i'll always eat like meat fruit and some sort of vegetable potatoes rice or something like that so you got to throw another meal in there um maybe like a ground beef rice avocado bowl and just throw that in a nice 500 calorie meal add to what you're currently doing and you'll see yourself your energy is going to go up and you're going to get stronger you're just not eating enough hunting you're really like so tell me what your activity looks like now because i know you're not working for the winner.

1:44:00Yeah. So now it's like, it's like less. So like, I'm not doing the maps 15 workouts anymore. I switched over to power lift because I have more time to do it. And I'm really liking the power lift one, but, um, so now I just like, I do maps power lift. And then after that I eat my breakfast and everything. And then I go out and I take care of my chickens and stuff and do our wood stove and everything and then I come back in that's lunchtime so I eat lunch then normally I read for a while then I pick up the house and everything and then um I I it's winter time so I have a lot of shoveling to do now sometimes I shovel for like two hours a day just the snow to move it um I yeah I usually make dinner and everything for everyone so You're a little machine.

1:44:53Yeah, add a meal. Add a five or six-cent-a-color meal. You could also throw two tablespoons of peanut butter in that shake in the morning, too. Yeah. Okay. Do you think I'm getting enough carbs in? Like, I'm getting 156 grams of carbs a day. Is that enough? No. No. I think you need to just get more calories. That's why I'm trying to give you little things like peanut butter and your two big heaping tablespoons of peanut butter in your shake in the morning. That'll help a little bit. Give you a nice bump right there. Just throw another meal. Find a time to eat another meal. Make, like I said, 85 % ground beef, rice, some avocado, some salsa, cheese, and eat a bowl.

1:45:31Tastes good. It's going to feel different for someone like you because you're like, I don't know if I can eat that much. So you're going to have to kind of get past that a little bit. But with your activity, I mean, you're eating too little. You're maintaining, but if you want to see yourself get stronger and thrive, you're going to need to bump your calories. What are you going to make dinner for the family tonight? What's on the agenda? Well, tonight I actually, I'm going to be working. So it's just leftovers for me. I packed myself some chicken thighs and some squash and a little bit of fruit with a little bit of milk.

1:46:08Okay. How many people are you taking care of? I have two sisters and then my mom and dad and my dog. Yeah. Yeah, you got to eat more, hon. You're like, you're, you're like, you're moving a lot. Yeah. You are very active. Yeah. I just, sometimes I don't really feel active and I don't know. I, I don't know. I just like get like, I get itchy sometimes cause I feel like I'm not doing enough. You're doing enough. Yeah. You're doing enough. I'm not going to tell you to move less. I get it. You sounds like you're very valuable to your family. It sounds like you derive a lot of, uh, like pleasure out of serving people.

1:46:46you like to you know be productive you like to contribute you know those probably resonate with you i'm not going to tell you to do less i'm not going to tell you to do less i'm just trying to build you up but you got to eat more you got to fuel yourself if you're going to do all that stuff you're not able to be more effective at all that stuff yeah you'll be more effective at helping and doing all that work if you fuel yourself think about it this way eat to for performance yep eat for performance and if you add a 500 600 calorie meal you're going to perform better all the things you do you're going to do better yeah especially if you start feeling strength from that you know you're you're okay you're humming yeah yeah because that was like another thing that i think probably has to do with it i've just like whenever i work out i never get muscle pumps like ever so i didn't know if is it you think i don't eat enough you're depleted that's why yeah glycogen stores are low reason yeah that's you'll get when you're when you're filled up you'll you'll feel that pump you'll feel that pump when you're yeah you're depleted right now does your whole family like you do you guys all just work your butts off uh yeah kind of we're all we're always busy non-stop it feels like so yeah yeah no no you gotta throw another 500 calorie meal eat it every day literally just an additional meal to everything you normally eat okay yeah because i i know like I talked to you guys last time.

1:48:03You had me put in two of the protein shakes, and I would do that. I think it was probably only adding an extra about 300 calories a day, I think. But I did notice I just felt more energy right away from it, and then it kind of went away within a week. Because it's still not enough. Rachel, make them tasty. Make them tasty. Throw a banana in there. Throw two tablespoons of peanut butter in there. Maybe even have some Nutella on top of that. Make a really good high-protein, high-calorie shake. Like, don't just have whey protein and milk. That's too low. Have a good five, six, 700-calorie shake when you do it.

1:48:41If you have a hard time getting the meal, like I'm with Sal. I'd like to see you get another meal. I know how hard making a whole other meal can be sometimes. So then when you have the shakes, don't be just having whey shakes. You need to put a banana in there, put some peanut butter in there. Calorie it up, and that'll serve you. Yeah, and just a tip too, Rachel, for what I said. You know, I do this at home, or my wife does this. She just cooks a lot of ground beef and a lot of rice once or twice a week, and then we put it in the fridge, and then I always have a meal. I can just always mix them together, and it's done.

1:49:12Crack eggs on it, put cheese on it. It turns into something good. Yeah, but Adam gave great advice too. If you're already using a blender, just throw a banana, some peanut butter, and Nutella in there, and you've just given yourself some extra calories, some fuel. All right, so you think probably like 500 extra calories a day should do it? At least. For you, I'm not even worried about you. That's why I said, yeah, two heaping spoons, throw a Nutella on there. Okay. You accidentally went to 700 calories over. We're going to be fine. Rachel, if you were my client, I would probably get you up to close to around 3 ,000 calories or above.

1:49:43It's probably where we would end up. Because how active you are. Because of your activity. Yeah. So like a way, so like I would know like I'm eating enough once I get stronger, right? And you'll feel the pumps. You'll know when you're hitting those calories, Rye, is you'll start feeling the pumps for the first time. You will. Okay, because I really want to get a muscle pump. I've been doing it for so long. I just want to feel it. You got to eat. You deserve one. I'll tell you, just so you know, when you're in that depleted state and you always do it, like, you know, it reminds me of getting ready for a show.

1:50:15So getting ready for a show, I'm low-calorie, low-calorie, low-calorie. the last three to four days i i have to load before i actually really feel it so one day of good eating is not going to result in the in the pump you're going to need to have several good high calorie days then the pump comes so just keep that in mind like don't think like just you're gonna have like one big day you're like the guys told me i'd fill a pump and i don't feel a pump i had a big high calorie day you'll because you've been low for so long it's going to take a couple days to really load the body up to feel the pump that you're looking for yep okay but that That'll tell us you're on the right track.

1:50:49Yep. All right. So just keep eating until I get stronger and start getting some pumps, basically. That's right. That's right. That's right. How old are you again, Rachel? I'm 22. Oh, you're dull. Yeah, I love it. This will be fun. Can we have you back on? Let's do this again. Call us when you get a pump. I know. Okay, yeah. Next time I come back on, I hope I'm going to be so much stronger because I'm doing power lift right now. I really want to get my lifts up. All right. Get those calories up. You will, I promise. Absolutely. strong and optimal here real soon okay i'm really gonna go for it this time like hardcore yeah all right thank you let's get it right bye guys thank you so much merry christmas you know when you you you know when you talk to a kid and you just know they were raised like well yeah what a great kid great mentality yeah but busting her butt my god and she just needs to eat more we need to protect people like that yeah yeah totally totally she's so young so this is great she'll have fun with it get stronger start feeling the energy develop that relationship with food that's going to last forever.

1:51:47I don't know. Where's she at? Michigan? Is that where she at? Yeah. She's like, yeah, you know, now that I'm not working, I'm not doing as much. I wake up, I'm working outside, then I come in for lunch. I'll read for a while probably now. Yeah, clean the house. Then I'll do a bunch of shoveling. Feed all the hotlines. Shovel snow for two hours. Bro, if I shoveled for 45 minutes, I'd come inside. I'd be dead, you know? So great. I love it. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. What's up, Mind Pump Media? Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com.

1:52:30The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family we thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump