2771: Protein Myths Are Wrecking Your Progress

21:18Adam Schafer:I have to eat four meals with 50 grams of protein plus throw a shake in. It's really hard. So where I'm going with this is, A, try doing it with whole foods because this helps with body composition, kind of naturally controls calories. B, when you find it to be very difficult as you're tracking and you're missing by 30 or 40, this is why protein supplementation or protein snacks can be quite beneficial. You brought up earlier Chris Power. We'll bring them up. These are pretzels. They're very palatable. You eat one of these bags in a day. What is it, like 30 grams of protein almost?

21:52Sal Di Stefano:20 so they they range between i think 26 is the lowest to 29 yeah i'm eating a bag or two every day right now just because it's it's so convenient and easy it's easy for me while i'm driving to and from it's not messy it's like and for me to be able to snack on something when and and and i don't know if you guys are this way but when i'm aggressively going after my protein i don't find a lot of times where i'm actually hungry so i have to like that's right i have to find times where hey you know what work yeah i'm not hungry enough to sit down and eat a steak and rice meal right now but i could snack on some pretzels that'll give me an extra 26 or 28 grams of protein so that's what i find myself too because to your point when you are so protein centric it's very satiating and if i'm in build mode right now and so for in order for me to do that i've got to train getting those extra grams of protein in and even when i'm not quote-unquote hungry and so having a salty snack that I can eat while I'm driving between meals and stuff like that it's been huge for me so it's been what flavor are you doing by the way I so I so originally the hot ones but the hot ones I I need something to wash it down with so those are the best for driving but uh I actually so sesame was what I had yesterday and then the green ones which are like I think sea salt oh yeah I haven't had one I I haven't really liked so even they hit that they hit it out of the ball They're good.

23:13Sal Di Stefano:They're all really, really good. So I'm talking between the sea salt one and then there's the purple one, which I forget the name. I got to remember the names of all the flavors. The Everything Bagel? The Everything, yes. That one's good. The Everything one and then the sea salt one are becoming my new favorites. I still like the jalapeno ones, but they got a kick to them. So if I don't have something to wash them down with, my mouth will be on fire.

23:35Adam Schafer:You know what's interesting, too, about this? You hear a lot of talk about stabilizing blood sugar, insulin sensitivity. Protein has a really interesting effect on that. It's quite remarkable. You eat a high-protein diet. First of all, let's say you're going to eat garbage. I'm not advocating this, okay? So this is not what I'm telling you to do. But they've done studies on this. I'm about to eat garbage food. I'm about to have donuts. But right before I eat the donuts, I eat 30 grams or 40 grams or 50 grams of whole natural food-based protein. So I ate that first, then I ate the donuts. You'll eat half the donuts.

24:07Adam Schafer:Not only will I eat half, but let's say I eat the same amount. Blood sugar doesn't go crazy. Blood sugar doesn't go as crazy. Yeah, but you won't. You won't. No, also in real life.

24:13Sal Di Stefano:I'll bet my last dollar. No, you're right. That's real life, right? Yeah, in real life, if you go in and you say, because I used to have to do this. So when I finally learned that I was way under eating protein, and that was what was keeping me the 180-pound kid who couldn't build any muscle with all the movement I do, I was like, okay, I'm not getting enough protein, and I'm eating too much junk food is what was happening. So it was like, okay, I got to go eat the protein first. Then I get the protein and I would give myself that permission to have the donuts, to have the milkshake, to do the thing with it.

24:42Sal Di Stefano:But, oh boy, it was so hard to drink or eat or do that thing that is super palatable after I had that high protein. So it's for the hard gainer, it's difficult to do that. And if you're the person who struggles with weight, it's one of the best hacks and strategies to maintain your weight.

25:01Adam Schafer:Well, so what happens with this is if you did chase a bulk or a cut, okay, let's say you just hit your target number. Let's say, okay, my target body weight's this, there's grams of protein, whole natural foods. Here's what kind of happens. This is what I've experienced with clients, and this is the feedback we've gotten with our trainers, is that without tracking your calories, you're eating whole natural foods, eating the protein first, you're strength training. Your calories naturally go up and down. And what dictates your appetite is if your body's building or losing body fat. And so you actually get this nice body composition change.

25:35Adam Schafer:Not these big dramatic swings, but rather over time, I get leaner, build muscle. I get leaner, build muscle because your appetite is driven by your training, by your strength training, which is quite remarkable. And I'll take it a step further. If the average person did nothing else but just did that, stuck to whole natural foods, we would solve obesity. It would solve without them having to worry about anything complicated and I got to track this and count that. It makes that big of a difference, everybody. It's crazy. And again, for me, who's done this for as long as I have, I can't believe the difference between 150 to 170 grams approaching to 220.

26:12Adam Schafer:Like the difference in my training is it's silly. That's the word I want to use. It's actually quite silly. Speaking of silly. Another point for me. Have you got it? Yeah, you got it, dude. Adam won. It's been a long time since it.

26:24Sal Di Stefano:It's been a long time since we did that tally. And hearing you say that right now, I'm like, man, I remember saying this for a long time to this guy. You know what I'm saying? It's so true.

26:33Adam Schafer:Hey, you might know this story. That's it. Do you know the story of FedEx and how they almost went bankrupt? Yes.

26:39Sal Di Stefano:Yes. This is the craziest. And he went and he gambled. He put it on roulette. Yes, of course. Yes. Bro, I'm going to read it. Yes, he put it on black or red or whatever. Listen to this. Yeah, it's a crazy story.

26:52Adam Schafer:This is like, I don't even know if this is good advice. I don't think you should do this as a CEO.

26:57Sal Di Stefano:No, I'll read to you. In fact, actually, Sal, I bet you this has happened a lot more times than we know about it. The opposite. I'm sure, yeah, people have heard this story and then been like, oh, this is like their answer to solve their problem.

27:09Adam Schafer:Well, I mean, he put everything on the line. So 1973, FedEx was losing$30 ,000 per day. They had$5 ,000 in the bank and a$24 ,000 fuel bill due on Monday. Almost 400 employees were about to lose their jobs. So that's what was happening at this moment. Let me get this to come up again. So this CEO is like, what am I going to do? How am I going to get this company to come out? Let me pull it up again because it froze. So here's what happened. They lost prior to this$29 million in 26 months. He asked his employees to hold off on cashing their paychecks. Just, hey, guys, like, please hold off. I'm going to figure this out.

27:49Adam Schafer:Pilots were using their own credit cards to fuel their planes, hoping to be reimbursed later. Oh my God. Friday, they said, hey, look, if your fuel bill isn't paid, by Monday, your planes aren't going to fly. So what he did is he went to, by the way, he created the idea for FedEx and his econ class got a C on it. So he talks about this. And he's like, my professor, he was right, dude. I can't do this. By the way, he's - C students are the best entrepreneurs. This guy apparently was a badass. So he was in the Marine Corps. He survived, you know, childhood arthritis as a kid. He, you know, he did two tours in Vietnam.

28:30Adam Schafer:He's like, I'm not going down without a fight. So he literally withdrew the company's remaining funds and went to Vegas, dude. Oh, my God. And he played blackjack. Oh, it was blackjack. I thought he put it all in black. Blackjack, dude. Blackjack, okay. And this is, so he tells a story. I wonder if that's better odds. He would win a few hands, lose a few. at one point he was up 35 grand then he lost almost all of it but he ended and he ended on top by sunday night he turned the money into 27 000 he paid the fuel bill kept the planes flying for one more week and then ended up getting uh within weeks got an investor to give him 11 million of course now they're a massive company yeah dude yeah what that could have gone bad psychotic

29:17Sal Di Stefano:week so i can't remember what i was watching on netflix but there's a there's a there's the that happens all the time the other way oh yeah yeah that's not a good strategy yeah then he gets a drone for a bezeling and all this other shit i have a update like when you shared the uh squatter guy oh the squatter hunter i just got so i mean my my my business wheels yeah just start going like This is a great business idea. I know, I know. So I went down and looked more into his story and stuff like that. So listen to how there's another layer to this. So why it's so difficult is squatting is a civil thing.

30:01Sal Di Stefano:And so the cops can't. You're not breaking a law that they can literally do anything about. So it's like you have to take this to court. Which is weird because they are breaking and entering. Well, but that's the part they can't prove. You know what I'm saying? And so that's where this gets all. So a large percentage of these people that squat like this are also ex-criminals or have done other things like that. And so a lot of times they're on parole. So one of the ways he expedites this is he brings guns to the house. So he gets the landlord to rent one of the rooms to him legally, signs, and he rents one of the rooms.

30:38Sal Di Stefano:And he brings guns out. Then he calls the cops because if you're on parole, you can't be anywhere near the.

30:44Adam Schafer:So he plays their game and uses laws against them, too. Yeah.

30:47Sal Di Stefano:And then the cops actually can remove him and arrest him. Well, how brilliant is that? So that's hack one right there. It's just like there's like a good. I can't remember the percentage was, but it's a high percentage of these squatters have criminal records and or on parole. And so he's like, they're on parole. I've got weapons that I am allowed to legally have. brings them in to rents the room he has his guns in his house they no longer can be in the same house as those weapons and they're legally can get removed now isn't that brilliant i love that i

31:18Adam Schafer:know i just think it's so crazy that we have laws that make it hard to kick someone who's out of your house yeah illegally yeah i think that's so crazy and like and protect burglars from like

31:33Sal Di Stefano:invading your house you know what this is a break you know this is such a win though for me for humans because there's for every stupid law and stupid thing that we do someone smarter comes around and finds yeah how to use that bullshit against you or a loophole or somebody who who takes advantage in business somebody else goes like let me create a business that will just bankrupt that business by doing but you know i'm saying like sooner or later even even back Sometimes it takes a while. It does. And it feels like that one took a while because you've heard so many horror stories of squatters.

32:08Sal Di Stefano:And it's like, watch this continue to go viral and people learn and figure this out. And now as a landlord, you're like, oh, I am just going to. My uncle, who's got this huge gun collection, I'm going to rent a room to him. He's going to show up there. And if those people are on parole, they're out like that. And then your only hard one is if someone is not on parole. But, I mean, the percentage likelihood of someone's willing to do something like that, probably. done other shady stuff in their life. It's so rewarding. And like you see these videos too, when they catch like a lot of the, the fraud overseas where they're like, dude, the call center.

32:43I love those. Yeah. And they hijack their cameras. They hijack their computers and they show them everything and who's there. And they freak out. Yes. And I just, I just, I personally just love that. Cause it's just like, dude, these people just are just literally taking advantage full on knowing that they're ripping

33:02Adam Schafer:and stealing and it's like there's no recourse it's like we just need recourse we need all this there are come back there's lots of videos of people that make um like fake delivery boxes yes they blow up they like explode like blue paint the bikes yeah the bike stealing ones of course there's gonna be people who get mad because they get hurt but hey

33:24Sal Di Stefano:play stupid games these are the good things on the internet I feel like these are the good things

33:28Adam Schafer:I feel bad when it's like some like you know cause sometimes you'll see like some homeless dude that looks like he's not well you know I can feel bad for that but like the guys like the people that drive up they get out of the car and take your package and then you know they rig the package so like one dude rigged this package to blow up fart spray and blue paint and it like waits till they're in the car so the car will start to take off and you'll see But if there's no consequences or deterrent, you invite it.

33:57Sal Di Stefano:And this is what we see all the time living in the state. We see what that result is. And it just becomes a number that is insane. And now it's like, oh, we can't do anything about it. Well, you know, we invited. Well, this quarter hunter thing is so cool to me. And probably our listeners that are in other states are like, who cares? It's not that big of a deal. In California, this is a big deal. If in California, everybody who's probably listening who knows somebody. You know somebody. You know somebody. You probably know a landlord. Yeah, my sister-in-law happens. Yes. Almost everybody I know that owns property in California has had a situation.

34:35Adam Schafer:The guy wouldn't leave. It took him eight months to get him out. And when he left, he put holes in the wall, destroyed the whole place when he left. Cost tons of money. What a sick. It's unbelievable.

34:48Sal Di Stefano:Did you share this water hunter thing to him?

34:50Adam Schafer:No. Oh, you didn't? It was a long time ago.

34:52Sal Di Stefano:So what? You know he'll appreciate that. So sensitive.

34:56Adam Schafer:He still talks about it. He's a little salt in the wound on that. Yeah. Yeah.

34:59Sal Di Stefano:No, that's what I said. So people maybe in the rest of the country is like, what? That's ridiculous. But here, it's a hard thing to deal with.

35:06Adam Schafer:Dude, I got to bring something up to you guys. So you guys remember, we've talked about this on the show a few times. I'm going to pull it up. I've talked about this. It's a drug. It's a compound that bodybuilders that I would say the most courageous bodybuilders. Oh, dynamite? Yeah, so it's called DNP. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's in dynamite, right? It's used in making explosives. And what it is is, and I know the story behind it, by the way. I'll pull it up for you. So what it does is it's called a mitochondrial uncoupler. It cooks your inside. Well, so here's what happens. when when when i don't know the whole process but when your body's producing energy if it becomes inefficient you get leaks of energy and this causes you to burn more calories so mitochondrial uncoupling means that some of this energy just gets turned into heat and so as a result you just your metabolism speeds up sure okay so they discovered this uh in uh the 1930s so so i'll read it for you.

36:09Adam Schafer:During World War I, this is when they discovered this, munitions workers in France lost weight and had high temperatures. Some died. Oh, wow. This is how they figured it out? This is how they figured it out. Scientists discovered that this was caused by a chemical at the factory called DMP. So what it does is it disrupts mitochondrial energy production and increases metabolism. By the way, you look great. I've just been making shells. Hey, listen. Do my job. Listen, this is, I love, this is classic. Yeah, this is classic bodybuilders. No, no, no, but here's what's funny. Only a few died. Yeah, but everybody else got shredded.

36:47Adam Schafer:Here's what's funny about this. People like cancer. So this happened during World War I, right? In the 1930s, it was one of the first weight loss drugs that were marketed. So you could actually buy a DMP. Oh, you could buy it. In the 1930s. Wow. It was remarkably effective, but was eventually banned to its severe toxic effects. Well, listen, the dose that makes you lose weight and the lethal dose, really close.

37:10Sal Di Stefano:That's what they say, dude.

37:12Adam Schafer:Right on that line. The reason why I'm reading this is because scientists are studying, because DMP, I don't want to encourage anybody. Look, I'll tell you guys, I know a pro bodybuilder who's used DMP. Yeah, so do I. You know who he is. Yes, I do too. He told me the story of when he did it. He goes, bro, he goes, I took it. I started sweating like crazy. He goes, my sweat was yellow. He's like, made my sheets turn yellow. he goes i had like a fever yeah and he goes and it was it was crazy and your workout performance sucks you feel like like you hold a little water so you can't even tell you're getting leaner then you come off of it he's like you're suddenly shredded i'm like did you do it again he goes no dude i think i almost died but so that's horrible so scientists are studying dmp because they're like okay is there a way we could create drugs that do something similar but that are safe and and what they're doing that's exactly what they're doing so researchers have developed experimental compounds that do kind of what dmp does but is safe now they have obviously it's not

38:11Sal Di Stefano:it's not approved yet unquote yeah but this is like a legit metal you know fat burners always

38:16Adam Schafer:say speed up your metabolism they don't do that no but this actually would so do you guys ever

38:20Sal Di Stefano:worry about like okay because there's all these crazy stories the 50s the 30s like all these things that we were giving people and taking and doing like that like like what is today what is today like what what like what what is that today like there's like historically if you went back something and now we're like what did they do exactly there's there has been something always in the market that we were mass selling to people and promoting as this thing yeah it doesn't it make your wheels turn and go like that's floating around in the market right now well doug look up

38:56Adam Schafer:How many approved drugs get taken off the market every year?

39:01Sal Di Stefano:It's a lot.

39:01Adam Schafer:So they've gone through the process. They've been approved. They've passed all the trials. And then they get taken off because then we discover that they do something else. There's a lot.

39:09Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I would say. Every year we have a number. We looked up, and what was it? 75 % of all advertisers, so all commercials that you hear and see are pharmaceuticals. I would make the argument 15 % of the 25 % make up the lawsuits on all the commercials. of the, have you been affected by this, whatever, call this law firm or whatever. They're 15 to the 25.

39:30Adam Schafer:Those commercials crack me up. It's the only reason why I know what mesothelioma is. It's because of those commercials. You ever hear that? I just remember, there's like mesothelioma commercials all the time. Yeah, that's true. Like, what is this? If you suffer from that. Yeah, what's that? Let's see. Relatively few, hundreds that recall. Okay, there's hundreds of recalls happen every year for various reasons. Yeah. So few are permanently withdrawn. That's so funny. Doug, give me the number because AI has given us. They don't always give you an exact number.

40:01Sal Di Stefano:Recalls withdrawals, 30 to 1 ,000 annually right there. That was a number.

40:04Adam Schafer:Yeah, so 4 % of all drugs approved in five-year periods are completely withdrawn, which considering our extensive trial. Just to get through. Because it costs a billion dollars on average to take a drug from conception to market and all the testing and stuff. Yeah, 4 % is actually pretty high. That is high. Because if you're taking, you're part of that one 4%, and you're taking this drug, and it's not good. And that's not to say that the ones that stick around don't have all kinds of other crazy stuff that they just accept. Yeah. Then look at the drug company's history in wartime, and how they've actually weaponized a lot of these drugs that we all use and protect, and they just gas people to death with it.

40:44Adam Schafer:Look up the 1900s cough syrup ingredients. Just want you guys to see. Have you guys ever seen these before? What cough syrup was? They give it to kids. they give it to kids bro you know what's in it no heroin heroin yeah dude in cough syrup yeah bro for kids like legit this is in the early 1900s yeah yeah morphine cannabis chloroform chloroform and alcohol morphine cannabis

41:09Sal Di Stefano:chloroform and alcohol if you got caught with that all in your car they would for sure knock you out kill somebody

41:13Adam Schafer:yeah yeah

41:14Sal Di Stefano:but it works

41:16Adam Schafer:Timmy fell right asleep the old Cosby cocktail yeah dude oh my son's got this terrible cough doctor Doctor, he'll sleep tonight. Take this, Timmy.

41:24Sal Di Stefano:My son was hiccuping last night in bed. Before you go to bed, he goes, Daddy, I can't stop my hiccups. I said, just hold your breath. And then he's held his breath for a few seconds. He stopped. I'll die if I keep doing that. I said, well, don't hold it that long, bro. Yeah, don't hold it that long, bro.

41:42Adam Schafer:Don't some kids do that if they don't get their way, they hold their breath? I've never known a kid to do that, but I've seen like.

41:48Sal Di Stefano:So I have a bad habit that my son has. And Katrina hates it. and she used to hate it when I used to do it. So seeing, and she used to always call me out. When you're arguing with Katrina, you hold your breath? No, when I focus, when I really focus or I'm really into something, I'll hold my, and then also I'll go. You hear me? I do that too. Yeah, so I. I think that's normal. Is it? Normal, yeah. Yeah, okay, that's cool.

42:09Adam Schafer:But there's, I think some kids, it's a thing. They'll hold their breath till they get their way. And some, maybe you could look it up, Doug, and some kids will make themselves pass out. And so they get their way because you don't want your kid to pass out. You know what the recommendation?

42:20Sal Di Stefano:The dedication that kid has. Yeah, that's a real stubborn kid. You know what the recommendation is? I bet that kid does something special when he gets old. Let him pass out. He'll be okay, dude. Is that a real thing? I mean, I've heard of a kid doing that, but is that like a... To get their way.

42:35Adam Schafer:Put to get their way. Yeah. I mean, it's a form of a temper tantrum, right? Is it between that or like... I mean, I'd probably take... Hey, I would take that over a temper tantrum. I know, right? Just hold your breath. Well, you're looking purple.

42:48Sal Di Stefano:I'll wake you up when you're done. I want to get some air. At least you're quiet over there. So some kids hold their breath during tantrums or strong emotions. It's usually an involuntary reflex. Oh, interesting. It's called a breath-holding spell. Wow, I didn't know that. Oh, that's interesting. So it's not intentional.

43:04Adam Schafer:Sometimes passing out briefly. Wow, but generally harmless. Turning blue. Man. Kids, dude, let me tell you.

43:11Sal Di Stefano:Can you guys recall the most angry or the biggest tantrum that your kid's ever thrown and what it was for or why? Can you recall it? Or does it all just get blurred into tantrums?

43:26Adam Schafer:Tantrums are pretty good.

43:27Sal Di Stefano:Because I feel like a lot of parents have a story where it's like, oh, man, that time I took my kid to the grocery store, and they didn't get that thing, and it was so embarrassing. It was a party I had to remove. Oh, at a party? Yeah. They didn't want to leave. It was mainly Ethan, but yeah, they didn't want to leave, and it was bad. Was it like a kid's party or something? What kind of party was it? There was kids there that was friends. I was actually a party with a bunch of people, and I had to like,

43:51Adam Schafer:yeah, it was bad. I had to like, we had to go off and deal with it. That's where you like grab your, pick up your kid and like they're just freaking out.

43:58Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I didn't say anything.

43:59Adam Schafer:It was just like mechanical. Like we're gone.

44:05Sal Di Stefano:Actually, Courtney is still there. She's like, and I'm like, we're out of here.

44:09Adam Schafer:I'm not doing this. I wasn't there for this one, but my daughter, my older daughter, she was at the store with her mom, um wanted to buy something her mom said no threw a total fit and somehow knocked her own tooth out oh yeah oh wow because she's like freaking out and and her mom was like all right whatever you freak out over there yeah you know trying to kind of let her do it and she turns back around there's blood she's like what and she had like knocked out a tooth oh wow because she must have like yeah oh wow oh that's crazy kids are i mean you know tantrums are interesting yeah you know it's funny I saw this woman communicating like what to do with your kid.

44:49Adam Schafer:Maybe it was even on our show. Was it on our show we interviewed? But anyway, they said that they're so dysregulated they can't even control what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so trying to talk to them or force them to do anything is like a waste of time. You just got to be with them. Yeah, yeah. Work through the feelings. Let that come down and then go. Yeah, yeah.

45:07Sal Di Stefano:You know, I always talk about how I have, like I have the opposite problem, right? Because my son's never thrown a tantrum or anything like that. But then this happens to Katrina more than me because, of course, he challenges her more, right? Because she's mom. And, you know, she was telling me that she was trying to get him to, you know, put his clothes on. And he was just not wanting to do it. And he's dragging his feet. And she's being a little more, Max, we have to go, this and that. And then he'll start crying. I don't like the way you're talking to me. You're raising your voice. And she's like, I am not raising my voice to you.

45:39Sal Di Stefano:She's not doing any of that. But he's so the other way that like even any sort of direct stern like direction is enough for him to be like. Yeah, you're yelling at me. Yeah. It's like. No, no, no. No, I'm not. You do not see. It's funny you said that.

45:54Adam Schafer:I just pulled this. I just saved something on that. So this was an article on some studies on kids and their moms. and it says that children save their hardest emotions for their mothers because their nervous systems change around mom. Brain scans show stress circuits in a child's brain deactivate five times faster when reunited with their mother so when the stress comes down, they feel safe, the feelings all...

46:24Sal Di Stefano:You remember that stat? Remember the stat I brought up, right? It blew my mind when they brought up grandma, teacher, stranger, friend, dad mom who are they most likely to uh throw tantrums push back do all those things and mom was like 97 percent more likely yeah so like but it was because they feel safest yes and part of a kid learning what they can and can't do the boundaries pushing those limits is when they

46:55Adam Schafer:feel they're safest by the way i got another side to this because what the world will constantly therapy will communicate this all the time there's like this belief that every feeling must be expressed don't hold it in you got to say everything whatever there's some truth to it but it's not all true they also show in studies that when kids are told to hey control yourself keep it in especially boys that the brain circuitry and changes and allows them to learn how to control themselves more so it's actually a skill yeah so dad helps dad helps kids calm down like you got to learn how to control that mom allows a safety for them to express those things you can't have one without the other if it's just one you got a kid that just part doesn't get brought up because look real life real life means you gotta you gotta hold your tongue like if i just told you every feeling i had when i was mad i would have a good relationship with anybody yeah i gotta to learn especially if you're i mean katrina especially if you're a young man katrina and i

47:53Sal Di Stefano:talk about this all the time there there's uh there's appropriate times for him to do that there's inappropriate times like for example not getting your way is not an appropriate time to be crying or it's like hey this is because you didn't get a toy or you didn't get to this thing like you don't you don't cry that doesn't help you get that that's not an appropriate feeling that like sometimes we don't do that sometimes we do that's and then then there's other times he falls down or he's embarrassed or there's these things like, hey, this is a normal feeling we're having. We work through those feelings.

48:22Sal Di Stefano:You feel those feelings. Or you're frustrated. You're angry because you couldn't get something done. These are normal. But doing it on things that we'll stop that and teach him how to self-regulate that emotion when it's not acceptable. There's a balance. There is absolutely a balance. There's such a balance. It's not all the time. It's not like, feel it. It's okay. No.

48:41Adam Schafer:No, because if you just have - You become an adult and you freaking - It's just your mind and your emotions. That's right. That's right. It's ugly and it's unnecessary. 100%. You imagine being in a meeting with a bunch of adults and someone's having a bad day and they freak out and whatever. You become unhirable. Get out. Get out of here. But on the flip side, look, if you have a household where you can never express anything, that militaristic like whatever, that's repressed. That causes lots of problems. Totally different. Yep. On the other hand, if you have a household where everybody's unhinged all the time because they get to express everything, that's also not good.

49:13Adam Schafer:You got to have both. So it's like, you read the data on moms and dads. It's really amazing how they complement each other. You got to have both of those. Yeah. And again, this is why it's always good to have differences. Like, we got to highlight the fact that that's important and we need that. We don't need to be homogenized like the same.

49:32Sal Di Stefano:Like, yeah, men and women are not the same. It's a beautiful thing to watch unfold the teamwork when it's played that way. It is so, like, 99 % of the time, like, Katrina doesn't get frustrated with it. He stretches those boundaries. But every once in a while, dad comes over and goes like, hey, that's not okay. And that shuts it down. Like, that is literally all I have to do because I don't normally do that. And that ability to play off of each other, like, there's one. Otherwise, mom lets him feel his feelings and express what he's feeling going through this and that. Then there's other times where it's just like, no, we're getting ready for school.

50:08Sal Di Stefano:We have to be out of time. dad can come and be like hey you be you need to be ready in two minutes get going listen to your mother okay but i do it's like it's like a way to play off of each other but i find it interesting too because it's like it's so beneficial to hold your tongue control what you're about to say

50:24Adam Schafer:because you're pissed off or because you're whatever everything yeah uh there's value to that but oftentimes what's communicated is yeah express yourself don't hold it in do you know what happens when you talk through anger nothing good you know why it's like social media bro everything it's crazy but then you still need to express yourself later it's sure you do but you

50:44Sal Di Stefano:gotta calm yourself down it's too express totally it's the way we consume content it's the extremes get the attention and get the likes get the shares conversation the conversation is about the extremes it's either one extreme or the other and really it's somewhere in the middle of that it's like it's like yeah you you want your kid to be able to express his feelings you want your kid to be able to articulate that. You want them to feel their feelings, but you also don't want them to run over you and just like, that's how they manipulate and they use that way. Or they just never learn how to control.

51:14Sal Di Stefano:And then as a dad, you do need to be stern sometimes, but being stern is not yelling or losing control. No, because that actually is the opposite. Right. That's what I mean. So it's like, we always speak in these absolutes or these extremes when there's this, I mean, again, I think it's a beautiful delicate dance between two different sexes that do two different things really, really well. And when done appropriately as a team, it's a beautiful thing. It is. But it doesn't get communicated that way. It's a better result.

51:42Adam Schafer:It is a totally better result. All right, I got some recent studies on Shilajit. I didn't know they did. There's so many recent studies on it, which is pretty cool.

51:52Sal Di Stefano:Something that's been around for so long.

51:54Adam Schafer:Yeah, so this is cool. So there's a 2024 study done on Shilajit. they found that Shilajit reduced amyloid beta induced cytotoxicity in certain cells in the brain in other words probably good for brain health so neuro there's some neuroprotective effects cytotoxicity toxicity to the cells so beta amyloid plaques can be toxic to the cells of the brain I don't think it causes there's some debate as to whether it causes Alzheimer's inflammation or so it helps protect the cells

52:28Sal Di Stefano:And what would fall under that category? Are you talking about like microplastics and things like that?

52:33Adam Schafer:Anything that can make the brain inflame. So high blood sugar, microplastics, chemical, bad sleep, that kind of stuff. Okay, interesting. There's a study in 2025, this was a review of clinical trials, that showed that 250 milligrams twice a day for 90 days increased total testosterone, free testosterone, sperm count, ready for this, by 61%. motility by 17 % and morphology. So that the shapes of the sperm by 18.9%. What is the shapes of your sperm help? Oh, so you can torpedo like, no. So you can look at sperm under a microscope and you could have enough of them, but then they also, they don't have good morphology.

53:14Adam Schafer:So they're deformities. Yes. And so it causes infertility. Oh yeah. So there's a few different ways you can have infertility with your sperm. One of them is that you don't have enough. The other one is that they don't swim. Well, the way that they're shaped so they look at all that all that stuff um bone healing deformed they looked at us there was a 2022 bro i'm having a i'm not

53:32Sal Di Stefano:i'm not passing either i know he's moving on but i'm like i know it's wild that we get under a picture and we like can look at the different types yeah of little swimmers that you have yeah sorry guy i mean you got a lot but they're kind of deformed it's like a square yeah yeah those aren't going anywhere not so good to freestyle look at this ugly guy a lot of backstroke is going with you guys I'm trying. Crashing into each other. You'll never make it.

53:56Adam Schafer:They swim in the wrong way. Yeah. In 2020, there was a 2022 randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial that examined Chilaget's effects on bone health in post-menopausal women with osteopenia. So 60 participants got 250 or 500 milligrams of Chilaget extract daily for 48 weeks. There was a dose-dependent preservation of bone mineral density in the lumbar spine, along with reduced oxidative stress and inflammation. So by itself helped with bone strengthening. There's another study. I have so many. I'll just do a couple of them. Physical performance trials reviewed in 2025 showed that for eight weeks, the 250 to 500 milligrams a day enhanced muscle adaptation, reduced fatigue, and boost collagen synthesis, ready for this, up to 84 % with benefits of skin health and wound healing.

54:48Sal Di Stefano:This is a great supplement. Don't do any more. I mean, I'm still in the first one just because. What, the sperm? Well, yeah. Okay, so how does that compare to things like Tongkat Ali and Ashwagandha, other traditional other supplements? I don't know.

55:03Adam Schafer:It's a good question. To me, what blows me away most about Shilajit is all the stuff that it does. It does a lot of things. The cascading effect, yeah. I don't know. I don't know what the exact numbers are with Tongkat Ali. I know it helps with fertility in men. Yeah. Well, also, it's like, are we deficient? Because it's one of those things. Like, is this something you find in really good soil? Or like, where else would you get something similar that would have all these amazing

55:29Sal Di Stefano:No, it would naturally eat this weird - Yeah, it's tar on a tree in a random place, right?

55:34Adam Schafer:No, it's literally - Exotic. It's organic material that has been broken down over long periods of time. It oozes out of rocks in the Himalayan mountains. Yeah, it's so random. Yeah, dude. Well, so what Organifi did is, Doug, what's their dose in their serving? There's a bag right there on there, and I think it's efficacious dose, right? How much Prima V is in there? 250 milligrams. Perfect. So there you go. So you could take that dose or double it, and that's what the studies show. Now, in their gummies, which they don't taste bad at all. It tastes good, and it's easy to take. The thing with Shilajit, though, is you can get crappy Shilajit, or you can get fake Shilajit.

56:12Adam Schafer:Prima V is the source. So if Organifi uses PrimaVie, PrimaVie supplies to other people too. So if you want good Shilajit, go with Organifi or look for well-sourced Shilajit. But all the studies, you count them all together. Like this is a pretty remarkable. Yeah, it's a lot of benefit. What trips me out is who's the first person to eat this? I was just thinking the same thing.

56:33Sal Di Stefano:I'm like, and then how long do you have to do that within a family for people to pass it down? It's like, hey, this is working. I noticed something.

56:42Adam Schafer:You know, and I've heard theories and of course this gets a little bizarre as you get into it because you think that like the trial and error part of that must have been like, okay, you know, Jim died because he ate this and they all kind of like talk amongst. But there was some theory that a lot of these like psychedelics like mushrooms, like it sort of gives them some sort of insight and ideas with like things to eat. Yeah. Which has been the theory in terms of advancement.

57:11Sal Di Stefano:I haven't had enough mushrooms to get that hair.

57:13Adam Schafer:Yeah. I don't know. Hippies aren't inventing a lot of stuff right now. This is interesting on Shilajit. They observed animals in the mountains. Oh, that's of course. So they noticed large white monkeys migrating to higher altitudes each summer to eat a specific black tarlite substance that oozed from the rock crevices. Good job, Doug. The monkeys displayed great vitality and a speedy recovery from injuries, which piqued their curiosity. By the way, great vitality means the monkeys were having a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what that means. Dude, those monkeys are going nuts. Maybe we should try that.

57:42Sal Di Stefano:Maybe we'll give that to my wife. That's what every caveman said right there. Every caveman watched the books.

57:49Adam Schafer:That's how they discovered horned goat weed.

57:53Adam Schafer:Goats would eat it, and then they'd just go fornicate like crazy. And so farmers were like, what? You know what? I don't know why that didn't go on.

58:00Sal Di Stefano:I mean, that is probably how a large percentage of them is observing animals first. That makes sense. It's seeing that they're acting. We're watching them and their behavior. They eat it. They don't die. You see some sort of, you pick up and you're like, man, they're having way more sex this week than they were the previous week. And you're like, that's interesting.

58:19Adam Schafer:This is before cell phones and stuff. You're just bored. Yeah, yeah. You're just watching monkeys. I mean, that's just, you're like, John, come on, dude. Hey. Bro, they were having sex. We had TV and cell phones. We still ate. Everybody in this room watches the nature channel. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Hey, I'm going to tell you guys what we went to. Where were we? This guy's going crazy. We were at a zoo. Aurelius was like three. And they had tortoises. and we just must have timed it right bro one tortoise like big giant tortoises the big ones one got on the other one's back and started to mate with it yeah and you know he's three he doesn't know what's going on so we're walking over there and I'm like

58:52Sal Di Stefano:uh oh piggyback ride and

58:53Adam Schafer:the tortoise went was making noises dude so he's laughing he's copping them he's like he's like papa listen uh uh what are they doing I think they're wrestling I don't know what's going on It was hella loud, dude. He still talks about it today. Okay, what age is that?

59:14Sal Di Stefano:So I'm aware, because right now that's still what it's wrestling, right, that mom and dad do at night. Well, I don't know. What age is it?

59:20Adam Schafer:You can hide that, bro.

59:22Sal Di Stefano:No, of course you hide that for as long as fuck. What are you guys doing in there?

59:26Adam Schafer:Turn up the white noise. What's that noise happening in there, dude? I don't know. Joy Mode is a science-backed formula that is packed with citrulline, arginine, ginseng, vitamin C, and efficacious doses to support peak performance. By the way, what kind of performance are we talking about? In the bedroom. It boosts blood flow. It makes things rise to the occasion. It really does work. It also works as a good pre-workout if you want a good pump in the muscles you're training. But again, use it before the bedroom for a better pump you know where. Go try joymode.com forward slash mindpump. Use the code mindpump at checkout.

1:00:09Adam Schafer:Get 20 % off. Back to the show. Our first caller is John from Louisiana. What's up, man? How you doing, John? Y 'all, how's it going? Good, man. How can we help you? Good, good. I guess first I want to say, man, I just really appreciate the way that y 'all can blend science with experience and then dumb it down for us average people y 'all do it in such a way man that it's changing people's lives i'll jump straight into my email um i'll just read it to you i'm a 52 year old male i'm five foot four currently weigh 152 pounds and i'm at about eight percent body fat i resistance train five days a week i walk 30 to 45 minutes about three times a week and my diet's pretty consistent around 2400 calories a day and I only drink alcohol occasionally maybe a few times a month so my goal is to build more muscle but I took some some surveys one I think was a McDonald's and one was a butt survey and they're saying that I'm around 90 percent of my genetic potential so my question is am I really genetically limited to gaining more mass or is it realistic to add another 10 or 15 pounds of lean muscle mass over the next couple of years at my age and my current condition yeah well how long you've been strength training for um off and on since i was in my 20s but i've gotten serious since i turned 50 i actually started competing as a men's physique competitor oh good for you are you uh on any hormones all natural i'm all natural right now good deal oh wow you said right now have you used the performance enhancers in the past i have yes sir okay so so that changes things a bit now what i will say is it'll be hard to tell if you're at your you know quote-unquote genetic potential if you're if you're sitting at eight percent body fat trying to build um most guys are not it's gonna they're gonna have a tough time building and with a body fat percentage below

1:02:18Sal Di Stefano:you know 11 or even 12 especially without any extra hormones yeah trying to do it naturally

1:02:24Adam Schafer:would be really tough that low yeah now when you were using performance enhancing uh drugs do you do you know what your lean body mass was then versus now you know? Uh, I mean, when I got on stage, I was a little below 4 % body fat. Okay. And, but do you know what your lean body mass was reaching in the off season with that or? Uh, when you were bulking.

1:02:45Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. When you were bulking.

1:02:46Adam Schafer:So it's hard to say, dude, uh, it's really hard to say cause you're already, I mean, you're obviously jacked and ripped and experienced. Uh, but you know, here, and you're also, you know, 52. So that might change things a little bit, But to be honest with you, I don't know, man. I'd say go on a bulk, 2 ,400 calories. I'll tell you this much. You're not going to gain any muscle at 2 ,400 calories. We're going to have to get you over 3 ,000 and then see what happens there. Yeah, yeah. Not to mention. I know what I was hoping you would say. I was just scared to do it on my own because I didn't want to gain any fat.

1:03:20I'm kind of picky about the way I look.

1:03:22Adam Schafer:You're going to have to gain some fat to gain some muscle at 8%. You don't have to get a lot of fat.

1:03:27Sal Di Stefano:Not to mention, John, you have the tools and the knowledge how to get right back down anyways. It's more psychological. You know what I'm saying? Like, even if you went up to as high as 12 % or 13 % body fat, a guy with your experience and muscle memory, I mean, going right back down and getting lean would be relatively easy, you know, from that. And Sal's point, you'll build much better north of 10%. sub 10 % trying to build, especially naturally, especially older, and also towards whether you're at 90%, 80%, 70 % of your peak, I think those tests are hard to be really truly accurate. But even at 90%.

1:04:10Sal Di Stefano:You got another 10%. I mean, 10 % on 152 pounds, that's 15 pounds. So, I mean, even that test is saying that there's potential for 15 more pounds of muscle to be built. so that's that's still that's still and you said can i get another 10 pounds so you absolutely even based off of that you can but it's going to be tough to do that uh natural under 10 body fat only eating 2500 calories so my suggestion is going a nice aggressive bulk 3000 calories plus and allow yourself to go up a little bit and just based off what you're saying i already know

1:04:45Adam Schafer:you know you go up to 3000 3200 calories it'll be clean yeah you're probably not gonna eat garbage yeah to make that happen away from anything processed it's all clean yeah you'll be good here's the two things i would look at i would monitor uh for this i'd monitor strength and body fat percentage and that'll tell you if you're going too far or not so if i'm in your shoes and i'm trying to gain here's what i'm going to look at i'm gonna look at am i getting stronger in the gym and then is my body fat percentage going up now my body i'm going to expect my body fat percentage to go up in fact i'm gonna expect it to go up until i get to about 11 or 12 percent yeah once it starts go above that if i get up to oh i'm at 12 and a half 13 percent then i know the calories are a bit uh a bit too high yeah you're going so those are the two things i'm monitoring but i'm i but the goal is here to put it differently if i'm getting stronger and i'm in a surplus but my body fat percentage is sitting at nine percent and it's not going up i gotta add calories so that's what i mean by that i'm looking at body fat percentage to make it go up to determine whether or not my bulk is is appropriate okay that makes sense because you

1:05:53Sal Di Stefano:because you did uh hormones in the past and you're not now have you tested to kind of see where your where your natural levels are falling right now yeah yeah i've had uh just last week i had my blood panel done and everything's okay i'm a little low on test okay wow so wait hold on so you bounce back pretty quick yeah in two months yep wow what's your do you know what your total is at now total testosterone testosterone i'm at 144 which is a little low but i think it'll come wait that's total or free that's probably free i'm sorry as far as i don't know yeah that's that's

1:06:31Adam Schafer:not a bad recovery after a couple months yeah yeah so well i mean yeah yeah bump the calories dude

1:06:36Sal Di Stefano:that'll make the biggest difference especially post-show yeah okay yeah yep yep and then with

1:06:43Adam Schafer:strength training you know five days a week's fine you sound like you're real experienced but you do better off of us you might be you might even do better with four or three or three

1:06:51Sal Di Stefano:yep are you running are you running any maps do you have any of ourself yet uh the only thing i've done is i've read sal's book yeah you know uh so you get resistance revolution it is yeah but i don't have any uh maps programs i mean i i would personally love to see you run maps anabolic in a bulk i think that it would and just and stick to that if you can if you can and then on the other days if you want to go for a walk and do mobility and do other things because if you like going to the gym five days a week i'd never tell someone not to but it's a three day a week full body routine that with a bulk i think would serve you really well okay yeah the

1:07:29Adam Schafer:The most important piece of all this, though, for someone like you is the bulk. Yeah, eat. Got to eat. That's right. And I have a problem with eating. I'm hardly ever satisfied after eating. I have a big apple. Yeah, go for it, dude. Yeah, go for it. If you're at 24, I mean, I would put you up to like, I'd add a good 600 calories. At least.

1:07:47Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, 3 ,000, 3 ,200 should be a good place for you to be starting at. And like Sal said, let it be. Stay there and expect to go a couple percent up. you start getting beyond 12 you know you're aggressive you're bulking too fast then you can just pull don't pull back crazy just pull it back a little bit yep and uh and then the extra

1:08:04Adam Schafer:muscle and yeah but you're not gonna here's what's gonna happen you'll probably get up to 10 pretty quick and then it's gonna be probably hover around there for a while that's what i would as you build i would guess the same thing yep okay i'll have doug send over a maps anabolic

1:08:16Sal Di Stefano:from us so you can follow that i'd love to hear you fall if i'd love to hear you bulk follow that and then hit us back because I'd like to see what we do. Okay. Well, you have no idea how much I appreciate you sending me that. I have Santa Bali. Thank you very much. You got it, man. We got you. We got you. You just follow it, do the bulk, and then I'd love to hear back from you, John. Okay. All right. All right, dude. All right, brother. All right. Thank you all. Yeah, take it easy, man.

1:08:42Adam Schafer:You know, it's interesting to me, which I believe this is up to him and his doctor. at 52 if he's going to run cycles uh why not stay on it why not go on trt yeah yeah so on interesting cycle is a higher dose right that's no i'm not advocating that that's just you know competitive bodybuilding off cycle would be trt rather than doing the up and downs and yeah crazy swings i mean he's 52 he's probably not gonna have any you know kids anymore well that's i was i was

1:09:08Sal Di Stefano:thought the same thing too i thought it was interesting and especially too he still has goals of continuing to build more muscle. Trying to do that, coming off of a cycle where you're already trying to get back your normal testosterone level and build.

1:09:20Adam Schafer:Back to the body fat percentage thing, there's very, very, very few people that can really bulk in the single digit body fat percentage. 99.9 % of people fit, healthy, doing everything right. You got to get your body fat up, at least to like 11 12 for me like like my max bulking like i'm getting strong and i'm not putting on too much body fat like that sweet spot for me is around 11 12 for me and i sit leaner so some guys is even higher some dudes 14 15 is their sweet spot for you know packing on i mean i i

1:09:59Sal Di Stefano:don't even it's so funny when i'm in i'm in like kind of bulk mode right now it's like i don't even care if it's as long as it's north of 10 12 yeah i'm like 12 15 somewhere it doesn't even matter It's like stay. It just does better in that range than trying to also be really lean and do it slowly like that. He'll do better if he goes up. Our next caller is Leanne from Georgia. Hi, Leanne. How you doing, Leanne? Hi, how are you guys? Doing good. How are you?

1:10:26Adam Schafer:How can we help you? I'm cold. It's cold here in Georgia. We're not used to this. Well, we're in California, so. It's still cold today, though. It's cold over here, too. If it's below 60, we're all freezing over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but anyways, this is really cool. I'm super excited. I said, as I was telling you guys, this is the best birthday present ever. My birthday is tomorrow. Happy birthday.

1:10:55Sal Di Stefano:Yes. I will. Thank you. So Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. And I'll go ahead and jump right in. I have been listening to you guys for a little over a year. I started listening to you because I heard, I used to listen to Mike Matthews podcast and then he stopped his podcast. And I think Sal, you were on his podcast or maybe it was Adam. Both of us have been on there.

1:11:19Adam Schafer:He's good. He's a good friend of ours. Very good friend of ours. If you liked the episode, it was probably me. I was on there too.

1:11:29Sal Di Stefano:I started listening to y 'all. Awesome. Thank you. Um, and I listened to you guys all the time in the car, in the gym, everything. My daughter, I have a six year old daughter and she like has the intro memorized. It's really funny. So I also love it when you guys talk about your kids. Um, and I can relate to your talks about the teenagers as well, because I actually am a high school science teacher. So like hanging out with a 15 year olds is kind of my thing. I love it. They are fun. um but i'll go ahead and jump into my question i'll be 38 tomorrow so i sent in my email that i'm a 38 year old i've been lifting for the last two years consistently i actually started doing one of mike's matthews programs on the thinner leaner stronger on new year's eve two years ago so that's when i started to really get into lifting and consistently lift five days a week with the compound lifts, squat, bench, deadlift, and starting to use heavy weights.

1:12:32When I first started, I don't remember exactly what my numbers were, but I know that I deadlifted one day a couple of weeks after I started and tried to do 135 pounds and I threw out my back. It was terrible. So now, um, this past Thanksgiving, my sister-in-law is a power lifter. So this past Thanksgiving, we did a mock powerlifting meet on Thanksgiving day. And I did 500 pounds total for all three lifts. Wow. And my deadlift was 225. Wow.

1:13:06Sal Di Stefano:Incredible. So I've increased it quite a bit over almost 100 pounds, at least 100 pounds in two years, which I think is pretty good considering my size. I'm really small. Um, I am only five one and I do have low bone density. So it's sometimes I wonder if I'm lifting too much for, um, where my bone density is. And that is due to a history of being small my whole life, some of its family history. And then I do, I will disclose that I have a history of an eating disorder that I've struggled with at various points in my life since I was really like 12, I guess. So it's kind of a lifetime thing to really just kind of keep it at bay and keep it away.

1:14:02So now I feel like I've kind of stalled out on progress as far as getting my lifts any higher, particularly my upper body, my bench press. I still cannot bench 100 pounds. I can, my bench was 95 pounds for that competition. So my deadlift saved me. Um, but I am wondering, you know, as far as my next fitness goals, that 500 pound was a big milestone and I'm not sure where to go from here. I was thinking about the idea of doing a real power lifting meet, but I'm so small that I don't know if there would be anyone to compete against, which is worthless then. And then the other question I have is that I bought the MAPS Super Bundle, nine months to phase expert exercise programming designed by the three of you.

1:14:54So I had to buy it. I bought it on the Black Friday sale and I just opened it and started looking through it this past week because I was doing this other program. I finished up with my year-long coaching commitment with my legion coach. And I figured that I would start looking at it now, but it's not really what I expected. I did not realize MAPS Anabolic was only two or maybe three days a week if you did the advanced version. And I like working out. I like to be in the gym five days a week. I have time to do it. And so I'm looking for advice on how to modify that so that I can get it to be more of a five day a week program, um, with slightly shorter workouts as well as, um, you know, uh, how to progress that program to get the most, um, strength gains possible.

1:15:51Yeah.

1:15:52Adam Schafer:Great question. I appreciate your call and your honesty and you got a great energy. Uh, so yeah, I really appreciate calling. Um, so this is going to be, pretty simple for someone like you. Simple but hard. Yes. So there's a few things you mentioned that are going to point me in just strongly in a direction. So I'll start with the really good news. You have really good genetics. You're really strong. Yeah. Like really strong. For your size.

1:16:22Sal Di Stefano:Even your bench press, by the way. 95 pound bench press.

1:16:24Adam Schafer:Yeah, you're lifting for 5 '1". You're lifting a good amount of weight in all your lifts. Yeah. So you're really, really strong. And the low bone density is 100 % a result of the low food intake, low caloric intake. Definitely from the past, but also probably now as well. I'll guess your calories are probably still too low. And so that's where it's going to point me. It's going to point to food intake. So here's what happens when you strength train and your food intake or your caloric intake is too low. You still get osteopenia. and we see it all the time in the fitness space all the time uh young women who strength train compete uh you know they're always really really lean and they just their bone density just continues to go down and they get and they freak out they don't know how but i'm lifting weights and it's like you're sending the signal but we're just not feeding the body enough and so that's the direction uh we're going to point you as far as workouts concerned uh i mean And Mike Matthews has great programming.

1:17:28Adam Schafer:MAPS anabolic we could modify. You could do the –

1:17:31Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, that being said, though, Sal, to your point with lower calories, a lower volume of program is also going to benefit you more. That's right. In that condition. Because we don't have enough calories, a higher volume program is also working against us, not for us.

1:17:47Adam Schafer:Let me ask you this. You worked with a coach. I love Mike Matthews. He's always got great stuff. I'm assuming when you worked with your coach, was this a constant conversation with them? Was the food intake and calories? Yeah, it was. And she had me tracking. And so now that my year is up with her, I have hired an online, like through Nourish. I don't know if you're familiar with that program, but it's an online program with dieticians. So I've hired a dietician. I met with her once. And they are both, you know, they're having me track. So I am tracking my food, so I know where my macros are, and I know I have at least an approximation.

1:18:28I'm not always the best about tracking it, and I know that there's a tendency with my history to overestimate. So I probably do that a bit, but overall, like typically my calories fall around 2 ,000 calories, and then my protein is like somewhere between 100 and 110. Do you still think that's too low? I do.

1:18:50Sal Di Stefano:Oh, yeah. yeah okay 100 okay especially how strong and how much muscle that you have on the bone density will

1:18:56Adam Schafer:tell me yeah yeah yeah the bone density would tell me 100 and your past okay and i know while i'm talking to you if if you don't mind me being direct is that okay if i'm a little direct no of course i can that's why i like you guys i i know as i'm talking to you and you're hearing me talk about food uh you're it's like you're freezing a little bit and i know that this is like i'm touching on something that's difficult and i get it because uh this is a challenge for me as well just in a different direction. Uh, so it's like when someone tells me the thing that I know, but I don't want to do, uh, you know, I make the same face that you made, which is like, tell me about the workout.

1:19:29Adam Schafer:Let's not touch that one area. Yeah. Um, I guess I, I feel like I'm, and I know you hear this all the time. I feel like I'm eating a lot and I, I eat pretty clean, like probably 80 % of the time. It's a lot of vegetables, fruits, um you know whole milk yogurts stuff like that um and i do i try and throw the junk food on top of that the cookies let me stop you let me stop you you can't trust your feelings yeah yeah your feelings are wrong yeah yeah you trusted your feelings they go back 20 years you're gonna go yeah this is your yeah we tell people listen to your body when when i'm dealing with somebody who's got dysfunctional relationship to exercise and diet, you don't listen to your body.

1:20:18Adam Schafer:So if you eat appropriately, it's going to feel uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah, it does. It really does. Like when I track my food and I've eaten a 500-calorie dinner, I'm like, oh, I'm stuffed. I don't know if I could. I don't know how I could possibly eat anymore. Yes, so it's going to be uncomfortable, and we have to completely change your relationship to eating, which means for a while it's going to be very foreign, it's going to be very uncomfortable, and you're not going to like it. You're not going to like this process. It's going to be very uncomfortable for a while. So you cannot trust. So a coach is a good idea, but what they're going to do is, you know, you following what they do with you is going to be the hard part, not the tracking, not the awareness.

1:21:04Adam Schafer:um you know i'm not worried about that i know you could you're gonna make a great case which is why i cut you off because you were making a great case i eat healthy i throw in junk food uh but that's that yeah i'm not i'm not concerned with that what i'm concerned with is we got to get your bone density up yeah and we got to get your body fat percentage up and i know i just scared the hell out of you but your body fat percentage is too low for your bone density go up. We got to get your body fat percentage to 20 % at least. Do you know where you're sitting? Not there. No. Um, I have the only way the DEXA scan that I got did not do body fat percent.

1:21:42Like the, it was only phone because my doctor ordered it. Um, so I don't know exactly, but I would guess maybe somewhere around like 16.

1:21:50Adam Schafer:Yeah. Yeah. You got to get it up to 20. The, and that's like where it's been for a long time, I think. Now, here's what's going to happen. Here's what will happen if you follow my advice. And if you're, by the way, if you're willing to add another coach to your arsenal, we have coaches here that work really well with what we're dealing with. And what they could do is they could also work in conjunction with your dietician. Yeah. And more just the support and guidance and trust and, you know, because you're not going to be able to trust yourself through this process. But here's what it's going to feel like.

1:22:23Adam Schafer:uncomfortable i'm stuffed i'm full oh my god i'm getting big and then you're gonna be like whoa i'm strong this isn't as scary as i thought i feel good i'm feeling different my hair looks different my skin looks different my energy's starting to feel different this is foreign what's going on oh no i'm too big oh no i feel good and you're gonna go back and forth back and forth for a little while until we develop this new relationship with the whole process but we have to go in that direction yeah and in the past it's been really hard because i've never had like when i've done treatment in the past it's always been all about the food and there's never been any exercise component like with it with it and so i need help with both of them together at the same time because it's like once you get the food that or it's i don't know they both i

1:23:16Sal Di Stefano:think they both have to happen at the same time you're 100 right you're none of the programs do that no no because they're just focusing on the nutrition side the beautiful side when you have somebody who does both it's it's going to be much easier for you because you actually enjoy getting strong so you're going to see that and so that's one of those such a silver that's it that's such an awesome like it's good like sal saying the the food part is going to be hard and you're going to go back and forth struggle but the thing that you'll be able to lean on is like oh shit my bench press went up oh shit my dead performance and so and so that part of you will be able to lean and focus on that and not so much of the food you just trust your coach of like keep eating this i want you to do that stay stay the course how's the lifts going and that's what like if i'm coaching you that's what we're talking about i'm talking more about the lifts you just you trust me you eat what i tell you to eat but let's talk about your lifts let's talk about how you feel and and keep you focused on that and that's it's so much more reassuring for a client that's working

1:24:10Adam Schafer:through what you're working through right now so leon just again just to stay you know direct because this is a call and if i were coaching you long term the conversations would sound a little different so i apologize ahead of time no that's okay but for people watching the root of this a lot of people think it's body image but it's actually control which i know you already know that so the solution is to relinquish control yeah that's the solution the solution is to give it to your coach and then just do what they say and then just deal with how uncomfortable and scary it is. It's gonna feel really scary.

1:24:40Adam Schafer:Yeah. And well, and I know that like, I've got to lean on my faith for this too. And I know that resonates with you. I, we were at our church service on Sunday, this past Sunday, and they were talking about that actually going through all of the passages in Hebrews and about, you know, giving up all of your sins to God. Oh, that's wonderful. yeah and so like it this is like perfect it was perfect timing for it and this is all perfect timing um what would you what should i do then about the workouts i wish you guys would have had maps 15 power lift like and had released all these maps 15 programs

1:25:21Sal Di Stefano:one one we're going to give it to you two we also have we have coaches that you work with their coach they'll give you whatever you need yeah yeah they'll take care of that part so i I would love if you allow us to have one of our coaches call you and she can talk to you and talk more about this. And then we'll take care of the program.

1:25:38Adam Schafer:You mentioned your faith. I love that because you know that there's an illusion of control that's completely false anyway. We're not sovereign. So that's completely out the window. Here's the other thing, too, is another wonderful silver lining. You work with teenagers and teenage girls. when you're in those moments where you're really struggling what would you tell a 15 year old you or a 15 year old student and that advice is the advice that you would take because i know it's easier to love them than it is to love yourself it is you're right you're absolutely right when you're in that place be like what would i tell you know my 15 year old daughter or student and then it's okay that's the advice i need to take yeah all right we're gonna have someone call you I know exactly who I think you would be great with.

1:26:24Adam Schafer:Yes. And, and then what's going to be great about this land is now that you, if you work with our coaches, we're going to see you and I'm going to hop on these calls. Cause I feel responsible now for you and this will be so fun. Yeah. Yeah.

1:26:36Sal Di Stefano:We're going to help you through this. We got this. All right. Great. Thank you. This was awesome. All right. And happy new year. Yeah. And happy birthday. Enjoy yourselves. Enjoy yourselves tonight with your Z-biotics. I, I, I, I don't trust you guys. I buy all the things that I bought your programs and then buy all the things that you tell, tell us to buy. I got to get the Interra. That's what the mind pump. I'm like, I buy all the Legion proteins and pre-workouts, which actually are amazing anyways. Well, let us take care of you now. So we'll have someone call you and we'll take care of you.

1:27:12Sal Di Stefano:God bless you. All right. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Be in touch. How cute her daughter was back there.

1:27:18Adam Schafer:I know. I love it. I wonder if she even knew. Did she see? I knew as soon as I started talking food, she was like, that's not what I want to hear. And I get it, man. I totally get it. And I know that's what the coaches tried to work with her on from Legion, too. And that's a difficult thing. And I just want people to know, ladies in particular, you can strength train perfectly. You will get osteoporosis if you don't eat enough. It's just a fact.

1:27:41Sal Di Stefano:There's an unfortunate fact. For the most part, there's a lot of callers that are pretty straightforward for us. Then there's stuff that there's a real art to be able to take somebody through something like that. Oh, yeah. This is coaching. It's not as simple like young coach goes, oh, just add 500 calories a day. Yeah. Make it happen. And walks away because it's not just that. It's able to step her through that whole process. And you just have to keep a close eye on that. And to try and do it through a nutritionist without strength training, to me, is just – I would love to see the numbers on the success rate of that and how often that happens.

1:28:19Sal Di Stefano:Because in my experience, the only way this really works is we completely ignore the scale. We don't hyper-focus on the food. You're following the plan I gave you. You don't even need to know how many calories. I know how many calories. That's what I'm saying. All we're talking about is like, how do you feel? How's your sleep? How's your hair? How's your skin? And I can direct positive energy in that direction instead of it all being doomed.

1:28:40Adam Schafer:And the key is that you have to communicate, and they have to make peace with the fact that it's going to be uncomfortable. Yeah. It's going to be really uncomfortable. And I don't know. You've got to acknowledge it. I've seen a lot of nutrition coaches, dieticians, and they don't focus on that. But you need to because what happens to the person is they're doing it, and they're like, this can't be right. I feel terrible. Well, yeah, you feel terrible because it's scary as hell to you. It's different. And a feeling of being satisfied is a very scary feeling to somebody who's had a history of eating disorder.

1:29:12Adam Schafer:Our next caller is Neha from California. Hi.

1:29:15Sal Di Stefano:Hi, how are you doing?

1:29:16Adam Schafer:Hello, hello. Hi, everyone. Happy holidays. Same. How can we help you? Oh, I must first say that it's surreal. You will not believe. Two of my resolutions for this year was one to finish the MAPS anabolic program, and the other one was to ask you a question. And I'm so glad I get to finish both of them this year.

1:29:34Sal Di Stefano:Oh, good job. That's awesome. What you got for us? I'll go ahead and read my email. Hi, Mind Pump. To start off, I must say I love your podcast. As an Indian-born woman, I find it very interesting to hear your perspective and find your advice informative and sometimes outright hilarious. And I've previously gone from 151 to 128 pounds unhealthily in 2018 when I hired a young trainer who put me on a 1200 calorie diet and made me believe that fat was bad for me. I still have hormonal acne from it, so I have recovered, but it has done trauma on me. So as you can imagine, I gained all that weight back, and especially I was going through stresses of graduate school.

1:30:18So it was natural that I would get it all back. So my current situation now, I'm a 32-year-old, 5-feet-tall female, weighing around 148.4 pounds and 34.1 body fat percent. This is measured using my scale at home, which might be wrong. and I started MAPS Anabolic program on July 1st when I was 149.4 pounds and similar body fat percentage. I borrowed this program from a friend a couple of years ago. I should say I gave it a try total of three times and I failed because I could not do like three times a week or two times a week without getting hurt. But this year I could happily finish it and I really enjoyed pre-phase and saw strength gains in phase one.

1:31:02But after that, I injured my neck and upper back and had to take a couple of weeks off and do mobility and stretching. So phase three was too much for me and I had to do a two-day-a-week version. Also note that I'm increasing my grip strength and just achieved a 10-second body weight dead hang on October 24th. So this was also one of my 2025 resolutions to do a 10-second dead hang. and I finished the MAPS anabolic program on November 9th at exactly the same weight I started at 148.4 pounds and 34.1 body fat percent and I'm currently consuming around 2 ,000 calories and burning around 2100. No cardio, I just do 10k steps a day and as you can see I'm in a very moderate deficit 100 calories per day which might be the reason I did not lose body fat or weight.

1:31:54I skipped I should mention I skipped all of the calf raises and also shoulder shrugs because of my neck and shoulder injuries so going forward I would like to start MAPS performance to ensure I can rehabilitate my back and I'm planning to go on a deficit of 16 to 1700 calories starting on November 12th which I did and you have the first five days of the MAPS performance on YouTube which is what I was following. I basically do the three foundational days and I repeat the two mobilities every alternate day. And I'm almost about to finish the first phase. I was about to buy a program, but I did not know which one to.

1:32:32So it's perfect that I'm talking to you now. So currently I feel very flabby and I'm not used to feeling this heavy at 148 pounds. My happy place typically is around 125 to 130 pounds. That's where I feel the best in my body. And that's something I would like to achieve around 130 pounds with 25 % body fat. I haven't been that for a long time and I feel very flabby. Can you recommend how I can go on a cut while ensuring I don't hurt my neck? My neck injury is because of loading the squat rack wrong on my neck three years ago. So I did, I think, 120 pound squats. Then I went home and I got up at three in the morning with my right side of the neck and shoulders swelled up because I'm pretty sure I did something wrong there.

1:33:20So I would like to be conscious of not loading things on my back until I rehabilitated completely. And I'm currently not at all confident. All of my squats that I do, deadlifts are completely with dumbbells. So currently I can do a 45 pound dumbbell squat, but I would like to make progress on the strengths and start loading my back again very safely. So I wanted to see what advice you can give me. And another interesting thing is that I commute to work driving two hours every day, and I also strain my neck because of that. So I do mobility stretches like morning and evening, but is there something else that I could do to make sure that I am on the right path for 2020?

1:34:02Adam Schafer:Have you ever worked in person with a trainer or correctional exercise specialist? I have actually gone to an in-person trainer. This was the wrong person I hired in 2018. So that was bad. After that, it turned me off a little. Then I went to physical therapy a year and a half ago when I injured my neck and back. Okay. And that was really helpful. They basically gave me like foam roller exercises, the angel hand movements and stuff, which was great. which is what I do till now. And I also do the wall circles that you have on your YouTube. Good. How long did you work with a physical therapist? What did that look like?

1:34:42It was around three months. And it was basically like heat pads followed by stretches. And him mentioning that I should not do any overhead presses for a while. So I should not pick anything up above my shoulders because my muscle patterns are all wrongly trained to protect my neck from that injury.

1:35:03Adam Schafer:Correctional exercise would benefit you a lot. Yeah, absolutely. You need a specialist to work with you for a little while because there's a movement pattern issue that can probably get corrected. But until it gets corrected, this is going to be - Got to go to the root, yeah. A repeating issue. Like the fact that your neck hurts you when you drive tells me that we need some correctional exercise. You're not near us, are you? Are you in the San Jose, California area? Are you far away? I'm in Santa Barbara. So just four dollars down. So I'm going to refer, I'm going to have Doug refer you to a good friend of ours.

1:35:36Adam Schafer:And he's the best exercise specialist, correctional exercise specialist I know. He also works virtually and he does a good job virtually. And so we're going to send you his contact. He's the best. Like I've never met anybody as good as him.

1:35:49Sal Di Stefano:He's also very familiar with all of our maps programs. So after he does correctional work with you, he'll recommend the right direction for maps also.

1:35:56Adam Schafer:Yeah. But I think you're probably going to. Start there though, yeah. I think you'll start there, and I think a MAPS 15 protocol will probably be your best option.

1:36:04Sal Di Stefano:MAPS 15 or symmetry as well. Or symmetry. Yeah, yeah. He'll send you on that. We'll take care of the program, but Brink needs to do some of the work with you first. That's where this will set you up for success.

1:36:16Adam Schafer:Now, nutrition-wise, I think if you're doing proper strength training, what we want to do is build strength and muscle, which will set you up well for the fat loss. Your calories aren't bad, but to cut from 2 ,000 calories, we're going to hit a plateau. And then you're going to be stuck at 1 ,400 calories at some point. And then where do we go from there? Yeah, 2 ,000 calories does seem like a lot though. Like during the holidays, I was eating around 2 ,500 calories for the week and I felt really bad the entire time. It also depends what the calories are. But here's the thing. It's not that 2 ,000 calories are high.

1:36:54Adam Schafer:it's that I would like you to fall to 2 ,000 calories for your cut. Yeah. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. So a good reverse diet with strength training will help do that. But the problem is for us to build muscle, we're going to need progressive overload. We're going to need a level of intensity. But if we don't figure out what's causing the upper back and neck pain, that's going to keep getting in the way as you get stronger. So you'll progress, progress, and then you'll hurt. And then we've got to back down again.

1:37:22Sal Di Stefano:Dr. Brink's going to be able to help you. This is his specialty. He's going to give you movements, stuff to do every day, and you continue to work on that, and you're going to start to notice how much better you feel. And then we talk about, okay, how do we load the bar again? How do we start pushing the weight? And then we increase the calories to Sal's point. With really good strength training. Yeah, but first we do the correctional work.

1:37:42Adam Schafer:Yeah, and he's the best. I've never worked with anybody better than him, and I've worked with a lot of really good people. That sounds awesome. And I must say, I listen to you guys every other day. like whenever your podcast drops, I'm the first person to listen to. And my husband goes, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm just listening to the guys like while I'm making coffee and stuff. So I should say I took your advice for reverse dieting seriously. Like at the beginning of anabolic program, my maintenance was 1800 and I went all the way to 2200 all because of you. Oh, good. I appreciate that.

1:38:13Adam Schafer:But we'll be in contact because Brink will tell us what you need and then we'll just hook you up. Yep. Awesome. Thank you so much, you guys. You got it. Happy New Year. Thank you. you happy new year you too yeah i need you know i'm glad we got well first off it obviously sucks that she's got something going on there and you know i asked her about physical therapy because here's my experience with uh physical therapy first of all physical therapists are incredible at correctional exercise that being said they turn loose in the clinical setting oftentimes they're dealing with multiple people six people and they go you do this you do that you do this and it's like no what what you need there's no plan after it either and it's you need especially like someone to look at you watch your movement pattern correct it in the month not just leave you to do here put this on do that you know type of and three months sounds like a long time but i bet a lot of that was on her own with just like hey do this and whatever you've heard me talk

1:39:04Sal Di Stefano:about on the show how when i when i fired mine i was i didn't tell mine that i was a personal trainer and then i knew this stuff and i remember they put me in this like this is when i was rehabbing the acl mcl and i one of the one of the you know we're coming by leg extensions with weights on my ankles then i do uh then ball squats and i'm doing ball squats and you and the and the the physical therapist walks away i'll do that for two minutes and then walks away exactly and it's like now i know as a trainer that as i squat down when i've got an injury like that the natural thing is going to be shift my weight over to my strong side but i know that i got a person's not going to know that yeah they're not going to know that they should go up and down up and down and And then now they create this pattern that's going to, the stronger side dominates.

1:39:46Sal Di Stefano:And then they can't figure out why they have low back pain. She's momentum. Yeah. So you see that a lot. And it's not a knock on physical therapists. It's just that a lot of times they put them in these.

1:39:54Adam Schafer:It's the system designs it that way. I had an incredible physical therapist that work in my studio, but she left that setting and went private precisely because of that. And the results she got with people were just, I mean, miraculous. They were mind-blowing. And Dr. Brink's just, he's so good. and so it's like you know you want to build muscle and strength if you have if you need correctional exercise and you don't address that first it ain't gonna happen the second you get stronger you get hurt the problem gets worse it's like trying to build a house with no foundation yeah i mean you can you can try and build a house on sand yeah yeah exactly yep so look if you like the show come find us on instagram it's mind pump media we'll see you there thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com.

1:40:44The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family.

1:41:31We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.