2776: Good Nutrition Without Tracking Macros (What It REALLY Looks Like)

28:40Element, so brave. they came out i mean now it's not a big deal they're so popular now you're seeing other companies are kind of moving this direction because elm improved you could do this but when they came out with their when they first came out with their electrolyte powder you know i remember looking at we sat in the back here for a while we didn't even pay attention because i'm like another electrolyte drink like you have to say what this is what i mean i'm glad you're going this direction because if you listen to the podcast as early as the early years, like the first couple of years, we probably even shit on electrolytes.

29:15That's right. Because back then, over 10 years ago, they were just fluff. It was sugar water. It was like sucralose. It was just a sugar water. They were sugar water sprinkled a little bit. Sprinkled. Yeah, and it wasn't even an effective dose, which is why when they first sent over free samples, it sat here for damn near six months. I didn't even look at the back. I didn't look at the ingredients. Sounds like I'm not even interested in looking at it. And I'll never forget the day it made its way into the actual studio. And you're like, oh, my God. It's 1 ,000 milligrams of sodium. No one's ever done this before.

29:47They did it. This will make a difference. By the way, the original electrolyte drink, Gatorade, is not the formula today is not the formula they used. No, no, no. The old formula was high in sodium. That's the one they were getting after. Powder would be dropping water. Yes. But they changed that because of what you - Everybody's afraid of sodium. Yes. And they just turned it into a sugary drink. So anyway, I'm seeing more and more companies now that are not afraid to have 500 milligrams or 1 ,000 milligrams. Like Element has 1 ,000 milligrams of sodium. If you're using electrolytes for performance, you need this sodium.

30:21You need a decent dose. Especially if you follow the advice that we just gave at the beginning of this episode. Especially if you eat whole foods. Yes. Like you actually have to go after salt if you eat whole foods. That's right. Because the difference of processed food sodium versus what you get in sodium salting your food, you literally have to go after it. Huge. I used to give clients sodium, my clients that were good with eating whole natural foods, especially when they would low carb diets. And they'd come to me and be like, oh, I feel brain fog. I feel fatigued. And I know it's like your sodium is low.

30:55And I'd give them sodium in my studio. I'd say, eat this. This is salt. Just eat it. Watch how you feel. And 10 minutes later, I feel great. It's like, yeah, dude. You just, your sodium intake went from here with processed food to here with whole foods. You're still working out. Like, you got to bump the sodium. Crashing. You need it for performance. But Element did this. Yeah. They did this. They weren't scared. I'm sure investors looked at this and went, you guys are crazy. A thousand milligrams of sodium. Right. But now everybody's jumping on the bandwagon. Shout out to Rob Wolf. I believe he's coming out this year.

31:26Is he? Yeah. I know that. Dude, he's great. I know when Katrina was renewing Element's contract this year, she's like, the guys have been bugging Rob to come out forever, and he's just refused to come to California. He's so good. He's so anti-California. And he's controversial. I get it. That's why. That's the reason why. Is that why? Oh, yeah. He's wanted to do remote forever. They're like, no, the boys really want to see him. They haven't seen him in a long time and have him out here. So, yeah. So this year, the Element promised, like, we're going to make him come out. He'll come out for sure.

31:54He's hanging out at his ranch. Catch him. You know, we haven't caught up with him since back in the days when we used to travel to Reno to see him. You're talking like this is the early first three years of my punk series. He's a smart guy, so not afraid to speak the truth, even when it's not popular. That's him, so I can't wait to. Yeah, he'll be fun to catch up with. I'm going to take a different direction. So we're in an interesting time because data is starting to pile up on the detrimental effects of pornography. And another large study just came out. So 10 years ago, there wasn't a lot of data.

32:36I think people knew pornography is probably not good, but we'd have lots of studies to show what it does to your brain, how it affects behaviors. We knew 10 years ago that if you consume pornography, you're more likely to get divorced, you're more likely to objectify people, including yourself. You're more likely to have dysfunctional relationships and issues like that. More likely to have erectile dysfunction, all this other stuff. But we didn't have data to show how it affects the brain. And is it really affecting you the same way a drug would? Well, we have – there's more studies that are coming out, you guys.

33:10And they're piling up. And I'm so happy because – Well, while you're looking that up, Doug, can you tell me the date that Pornhub actually started? Doug, Google Pornhub. No, don't do that. Because, I mean, a lot of why we don't, it's the same reason why we didn't have a lot of studies on iPads and iPhones. Because, you know, we grew up in a generation where this was, you used to go to, had to go to DVD or even before, video cassette. And you had to go to the back room where you had to be 18 years old or just even go back there. So the likelihood you could even get access. There were just barriers.

33:44So many barriers. Lots of barriers. So many barriers where. It's not the, so here's the deal. It's not so much when Pornhub came to be. it's going to be when smartphones 2007 when Pornhub wow what a crazy impact it's had on society and iPhone was before that even yeah not much but right around there no remorse from the owners they came around right around the same time and so yeah of course you give access to 2007 same time so they both started so we hand a bunch of teenage boys or and or you know and girls yeah of a bunch of digital phones they give them free access to this well so it totally it totally rewires the brain you guys and we have lots of studies now that show this but there's this one there's this one test which is a classic addiction uh test where your an addict's brain will value your addiction over everything else in life.

34:47And so, and the way they test this is they show that your attention goes to it much faster. And so what they'll do, there's this test that they do where they take these two pictures and the one picture will point to your addiction. The other picture will be something else. And there'll be a green or red dot on each picture. And you'll have to identify where the green dot is. Now, if the green dot is on the picture that is not associated with your addiction, there'll be a certain speed that you'll react. If it's on the picture that's connected to your addiction, it's much faster. So you can do this with any cue, like if you're addicted to food, if you're addicted to cocaine, if you're addicted to whatever.

35:24And so they did this with people who consumed pornography and it was classic, classic, classic rewiring of the brain to value this kind of stimulus, just like you would see with an addict. Now, what does this mean for somebody who's consuming pornography? Well, you're basically seeing it everywhere. You're seeing it everywhere. Anytime you notice something that moves you in this direction, that's what you're noticing. And your brain is becoming wired to want more of it and to move more in that direction. There's far-reaching effects with that, which is pretty wild. So it's just not good. In fact, I would say probably in the next 10 years, we're going to see that the studies, you're going to see scientists come out and saying, you guys, this may be one of the worst things that we've ever done.

36:11has allowed this hyper-accessibility. It's a non-controlled substance. Age matters too when your brain is more malleable, right? So the younger this hits you, the more dangerous this becomes. Let me put it this way. If you took a 10-year-old and had them start drinking alcohol regularly, what do you think their odds of being an alcoholic would be later versus an adult at 30 starting drinking alcohol? Same thing with pornography. Their brain is wiring itself to really be predisposed for this type of behavior. So you're saying like looking at a pizza guy will never be the same? Or a plumber. Every time.

36:57I don't think that's what it's like anymore. You know, the study is interesting to me. I mean, do you find that a really valuable study? Because that could apply to anything. meaning uh if you had two things pop up on a screen uh and one of them's foreign to me and one of them is a barbell back squat i'm always in the and that's where the green dot is i'm gonna no this is this is this is a classic um i would call it queuing and it's really there's a certain speed that they're looking at and they can do this across uh any addiction um but this points to the brain valuing this particular behavior more than others okay so and there are controls with it so i'm not an expert on the study so there's a really it's a study they use there's there's a really good book and it's going to get it's it's slipping my mind right now it's uh how how emotions are made that goes into the neuroscience it's a great book it's a heavy read but it's a great a great book and it taught and one of the things it talks about is just how this happens with everything for us if for example um you know i when i was a certain age got jumped by three kids that were in hoodies and beanies then forever now when i see oh yeah see that i'm gonna have a reaction no matter what i'm gonna have a reaction my brain is now connected that pathway yeah right Now, that's an extreme example, but it happens to everything.

38:33And so, again, I don't know how much weight that study would have for me, which doesn't mean I disagree with everything you're bringing up. So what they're not doing is showing a full-on pornography picture and a normal picture. They're showing pictures that will point to versus another. So it could literally be a picture that suggests. it could be a picture that suggests a website, but their, your brain is wired to move in that direction. And this just supports all the other studies that are show that, that the consumption of pornography mimics what happens when we consume drugs. Like another example is when you use drugs, you need more to elicit the same high with pornography.

39:20You need more novelty to elicit the same high. And by the way, that trends show this 2007 porn hub versus 2026 porn hub guaranteed it's more extreme today oh yeah way more extreme today yeah and and so uh it's just uh it's just a terrible it's a terrible thing we've allowed in society uh and now i know that i think it was the 1970s when the supreme court said you know we can allow this i don't i don't know about if banning it is is the right thing but i think there should be safeguards it's so easy to accept it's crazy it's like we're leaving drugs out on the table. No, no, no, I agree. And kids can just grab them.

39:56I don't think it should be banned. I think it should be restricted and difficult to get for... It was hard to get in the 90s. It was really hard. I make this joke all the time. This is true, you guys. In the 90s, when I was a kid, you could... Another kid would give you his bike for a dirty magazine. I'm not even making this up. If you had a dirty magazine, I guarantee you could get kids to hell. Give me your BMX bike for this. And he'd be like, okay. and he'd give it to you. That's how hard it was to access it. Now it's like, it's everywhere. And the difference of... You wouldn't be the guy going through the beads at the movie store.

40:35You go into the beads and you're like, we know where you're going. Yeah, dude. And you also got to put yourself out there. Well, yeah. It was a shame. There's a huge difference from even a young 15-year-old boy flipping through a magazine versus what they have now what they have on what would they have on you know a web's free website oh that's crazy he can access i mean that has to be a massive difference that's like comparing sugar to cocaine yeah dude it's like you know i know they both like the brain or like a leaf to crack yeah they both they both light up the brain in a similar fashion but it's literally one sugar one of them well think about it this way you go back long enough uh some of the things you can access in 10 seconds on the internet you might have never seen in your entire life in the past yeah you would have never seen it's wild any of this stuff no in fact you could have been a king 300 years ago even like your neighbor now it was like on only fans or something you're like what it's just like it's everywhere dude it's crazy anyway i want to talk about so um And I, you know, I have, we've had this speculation and I've been kind of thinking a lot about it and I've asked other people and I actually asked, so I use Grok sometimes to give me ideas and whatever.

41:55And I asked its opinion on this as well. So my speculation, we all agree on this, is that if in the future, if the good estimates come true in the future, that AI is going to become so efficient and do such a good job that a lot of people aren't going to necessarily need to work. And you're going to have probably something that looks like universal income. Okay. So hyper-productivity, hyper-efficiency. This is a good scenario. It's a level of UBI. Yeah, we're not going to talk about the stick carry stuff, but let's just say that happens. So you have a lot of people with time on their hands. And I'm basing this opinion off of what happened during COVID.

42:35When COVID happened, this is a great story to share. When COVID happened, I remember we came in and we were a little bit of in a panic because all the gyms were shut down. And we're like, uh-oh, what's going to happen? We have a fitness podcast. Are people not going to listen? The opposite happened. More people worked out. More people bought fitness equipment. More people hired online coaches because they had time on their hands. So the theory is that in the future, especially one-on-one trainings, it'll be very valuable. Personal growth will be huge. Very valuable. And I think that's going to happen.

43:05Well, I think it's multifaceted, too. I think that there is going to be a huge demand for personal connection, too. Totally. As we get more and more autonomous cars and robots cleaning our houses and all these things and making stuff inexpensive and UBI to where maybe we don't have to work very much or a lot less, you wanting to be connected to real humans, there's already that desire for all of us to do that. We've already seen the wedge that's happened through digital social media replacing a lot of that and what it's doing to depression and all the things. I think there's going to be that desire for human connection The prediction that it gave me was a three times increase three times increase in demand, so triple the market demand for in-person training is what it's saying will probably happen I think you'll have a lot of people like I got time on my hands, I need a sense of purpose and meaning, I think I'm going to go get fit and I also want to work with a person and not just do this on my own Remember we talked about technicians trainer it'd be huge i think it'd be a great time to become a personal trainer remember remember too it's it's in line with the uh how what we evaluated uh tough mutters and spartan yes like that right like good point and like when you look at a good portion of the people that sign up for these a lot of these are like engineers and desk job people like that they like we have this human nature to want to challenge challenge and overcome hard and difficult things to the point where when our job becomes this thing where we sit at a desk and plugged into a computer and we're not solving physical challenges all day long that we go pay money to go to go scale a wall yeah jump in freezing cold water get dirty climb fall possibly get hurt like that's why that's a wild idea for it man and so yeah so when when all this stuff when when we remove uh work i know there's a lot of people that may be thinking like oh my god that'd be so nice ubi and i wouldn't have to do this shit job or this thing like it'd be it's going to be really interesting another example um that most people have if you've got somebody in your life that's old enough that has worked a job that they admittedly said they hated all the way till retirement and then they retire and they become more depressed than they were doing the job that they hated because they spent their entire time waiting for this moment of not having to do this thing that they dreaded doing to now have all this free time in the world to do whatever they want and their retirement and their nest egg and they go they're not going to know what to do i'm i'm miserable yep and so this is going to uh expedite that for so many people to that point i just hear this and i'm like man if you like fitness, you like working with people, I think that's going to be a great career.

46:03I think it's a great career now. But in 10 years, I think trainers are going to have, it'll be a great time to be a trainer for sure. So I read this, I was on Science Daily and I got to read this to you because it's crazy. Speaking of AI and robots and whatever. So this is from the University of Pennsylvania School of Engineering Applied Science. Here's the summary. So this was, they published this in Science Daily on the 6th of January. Researchers have created microscopic robots. So small that you can barely see them. Yet smart enough to sense, decide, and move completely on their own. Powered by light and equipped with tiny computers, the robots swim by manipulating electric fields rather than using moving parts.

46:43They can detect temperature changes, follow program paths, and even work together in groups. So they are creating... Nanobots? Is it nanobots? That's so weird. That's kind of cool, but I see Justin's conspiracy theory. Yeah, well, once they put them in your body it's not cool yeah yeah you don't have any control over that i mean that'll be sold too is like the next cure for cancer oh 100 100 oh my nanobots will fix me and yeah it's gonna turn into something really weird but then you gotta pay you gotta pay the the monthly fee yeah yeah oh my god organ failure yeah i gotta yeah it's the repo man it's 59 a month it'll keep your heart working.

47:25Oh my gosh. Oh my chest hurts. You're right on your payment. You guys just reminded me of a fun movie watch that Katrina and I did the other night. I want to say maybe Apple has it or Prime. Doug can look this up. I believe it's called Eternity. When Katrina first described it to me, I was like, this is not interesting to me. I don't want to watch this. This doesn't sound funny. And then we got to watching it and I thought it was it's a light hearted movie. So it's totally funny. uh and i thought the plot was original and good and and that's what made it really good and so without giving away the whole movie it's this you know when you die you go into this like um this this this place where you're you're waiting it's like a waiting room okay to decide where where you're gonna spend yeah no it's not bad it's like a it's actually that's what's comical yeah it's like funny it's like a subway station where everybody's at and you're like you're like where am i what am i doing and they're like oh don't worry you're uh i figure out what they call like your uh your your something consultant will be with you shortly and you're like i have no idea and so it's kind of like funny like that all these random people are trying to figure out where they're at they're all dressed whatever they died in you know i'm saying and so it has this it's it's funny and then then you choose and it's just like there's all these brochures for what it could be you know you are you like into the tropical paradise or are you like the challenge one of you know and they have all the capitalism to go after that your whole rest of your life you know whatever the thing is that you're into and so the idea is that you choose you know where but you can't come back like once you make your decision on where your eternity is and so that's part of this this this like area that you're you have to decide yeah and so it's got and then this girl that dies uh who had a normal she's an older lady that's how the movie starts they're in their like 80s or 90s or excuse me the husband dies uh they're the dilemma that you probably wouldn't think would happen happens and it's a really funny dilemma and so that's how how they figure through that so it's yeah it's worth watch it's it and i totally thought it would be something i wouldn't watch and thought it looked stupid but it got me it was like oh this is katrina and i found ourselves laughing quite a bit yeah and it's original yeah it's very original speaking of things that are funny that clip you sent uh of uh there was like like i think it was a guy or girl going around into gyms and asking dudes uh what do you prefer a cardio bunny or a muscle I can't believe that.

49:49Yeah, I know. And then the dudes are like, cardio bunny, cardio bunny. And then it's like, and then it shows chicks lifting. They must have a misconception of muscle mommy. I think so. I think they're thinking like, right it out, bodybuilder? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, you know? Because that would be it. Because obviously you want a muscle mommy. Yeah, dude. Yeah. The only other thing I could think of was that actually that was well produced, meaning that that person went around and asked a lot of people. And those were only. The four dudes. Yeah, those were like the five dudes or whatever it was that said cardio bunny.

50:17and so it's like, let me make a funny clip to counter that. I want my girl to lift too much. But also, I thought maybe we're in our own little bubble. No, I don't think so. I think people... Look, if you ask people, men and women, what's the ideal look, most of them will point to a look that requires strength training. They might not know it because they might think strength training looks like a super jacked, veiny bodybuilder. That's what I mean by we're in a bubble. We understand muscle mommy term versus a cardio yeah i think it's a misconception so maybe a lot of these guys don't know what what what the term muscle mommy means and so they're thinking like oh is that like a bodybuilder chick you know like and so like and they're like you said picturing some roided out deep voice chick that's like you know i'm saying they're like yeah i'm more into the the cardio bunny because that that's the only thing that makes sense to me like because a lot of those guys are were like guys that work out you can tell they worked out when we're fit and And it's like, I don't know any fit dudes that would choose the cardio bunny.

51:15But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the audience will comment. Did I send you guys a video of us in the garage last night doing the family workout? Did I send that to you guys? No. Okay, so last night I was training my daughter, my niece. And then my wife was working out. And the little ones were in the garage. So great, dude. It's so great having everybody in there working out. We're playing. We're having a good time. And it's awesome to see my daughter and my niece. So my daughter's 16. My niece is 18. and both of them are like chasing strength. This is so healthy for a young girl. It's so healthy because it's so much healthier.

51:47You can go dysfunctional with this too. Okay, don't get me wrong. But it's so much healthier than what they typically will start to try to chase in their teens, which is lose weight, too skinny, starve yourself. So it's cool because they're both like, how do I get stronger? I want to eat more. The irony of that is that the body image issues that was marketed to women for so many decades is what drove so many women to think cardio bunny and lose weight and starve myself and not lift weights the irony is that them chasing strength and doing that is going to give the body the most desirable body that they could ever want which is the ironic part of the whole thing is just that they you know we did a terrible job of communicating you know what i'm going to teach my daughter is because she's i don't know why she's obsessed with like growing her calves she's like my calves don't grow she doesn't have tiny calves either very proportions i don't know where she got this idea.

52:36That is so funny. I kind of think, my wife's going to get mad, but I kind of think because she sees Jessica. Because Jessica's guy. My wife has got, and she's got small ankles too, so it looks nice, but she wears heels and she's got calves, dude. She doesn't even train them. She's got these calves. Always that. I wonder if that's where it came from. Always people, of course. I know, dude. I'm wondering if that's where it came from. But anyway, she's like, I need to get my calves to grow. Why won't they grow? So I'm like, do you want to try occlusion? Oh my gosh. Yeah, someone take some knee wraps home and have her try.

53:08And I told her, I said, listen, it's going to feel like fire. She's like, oh, I don't care. I like the burn. I said, no, no, no. It's going to literally feel like you lit your calves on fire. It's just like, I can't wait to try that. That'll be fun. I can't wait to show you guys. Yeah, it'd be fun to play with that one. Oh, it's really so bad. That's hilarious that that's something that she's into. I know. I'm like, why are your calves, dude? She's very proportioned, too. It makes no sense. That's hilarious. It makes no sense at all. That's so good. How fun, dude, to watch. I can't believe she's 16 already.

53:3016, yeah, dude. That is so weird. She's driving herself. It's weird to even hear you say that because I feel like just yesterday she was Max's age. Yeah. You know what a weird feeling? When we got together, she was younger than Max. Doug will know this. I mean, you experienced this with your boys too, but it's different. But Doug knows what I'm talking about. You watch your daughter go from a little girl to a woman. It is a very unnerving thing to see. It's wonderful to see my daughter grow up, but then to see her become a woman, suddenly I'm like I remember that same transition when that happened over a summer with Brianna we hadn't seen her like it was like a three month time and she comes in one day and was like she's not a kid anymore.

54:09It felt like she went from Max to like a grown woman over a summer it was like where did that happen dude? I've been asking myself that same question for a while You handle it really well though. You have you don't seem to you don't act like a normal dad who has a teenage daughter in my opinion. Well I have to have some level of trust with her. And, uh, and the fortunate thing is she's really good. She's such a good girl. Girl. Yeah. So, uh, don't, don't mistake my calmness for not having like a storm going on inside. Really? Yeah, no, it's nerve wracking. People are like, why is it, why is it like that for dads?

54:48Cause we were boys. Yes. We know what's out there, but you both, you both are cause cause girls can be difficult, dude. I mean, I grew up in a house of girls, right? So girls can be really challenging. And you guys both have really good girls. Yeah. Which is huge. Because imagine having a rebellious, tough daughter. And having a rebellious boy, and Justin can probably talk and speak to this, is I think he would much rather, as much of a pain in the ass as it is, I bet you he wouldn't trade it for having a rebellious daughter. Because I don't know how I would handle that. Yeah. You know, you're right.

55:23but the data helps me because if you look at the data uh boys get into more dangerous stuff yeah sure girls do sure so that's the data the data is like a boy's more likely to get in a car accident more likely to experiment with drugs and all that stuff but there's just something innate this this protective feeling you get with your girl where it's like yeah don't get near my daughter i like i made uh i made max uncontrollably cry for the first time last oh come on bro what'd do yes it was such a it was a really it was uh katrina and i talked along about it afterwards she goes man it was so uh was so great to watch you navigate to that because she goes i've experienced that you hadn't experienced that yet and um and it's actually i've talked about it so there was this part of me i did something and i went And I was, I was frustrated inside.

56:12I was frustrated and then I'm like oh I don't like this trait I don't like that my son defaults to crying I I because I have the kid who's so sensitive I'd actually rather him back talk me in that situation or something like that but then I also know fuck I created that right and so what was happening was he had this um he had this project where he had to like make a t-shirt and he has they had to collect like a hundred things and come out and uh I was trying to help him come up with an idea and they have like it can't be food it's got to be light enough that you can glued on the shirt it's gonna be a hundred pieces of it i thought oh my son's sewing to legos and i thought we'll make like a family thing like uh you know shape shafers build the life they want and then it would be like a shirt with a hundred little tiny legos on it and so i had like this great idea and he was just like no i don't want to do that and i'm like and i'm like you love am i trying to i'm trying to convince him we're trying to like you love legos no i don't want to do that i'm just like matt well then what do you want to do you know and he did i don't know you I'm like, well, let's do that.

57:07That'd be so cool. A shaver. I'm really trying to convince him. And then you could tell I get a little frustrated. I'm just like, you don't even like Legos. What are you talking about? You don't like Legos. Oh, no. Right? So I do that. So he's sitting next to me like this. We're literally almost cuddling on the couch, the project thing's right here. And I said, and I'm like. You're doing the takeaway clothes. Oh, bro. Bro. Bro. And I don't even see it. but i he he just and he just he and he goes he puts his head down he starts to get up and he's gonna go to his mom and he just starts crying and i go whoa wait wait wait come here come over and then he and then i make him come sit back down with me bro i couldn't get him to catch his breath for like just uncontrollably and inside of me i'm going oh my god i can't stand that this is his trait but i also know that i was sarcastic and i fucking did this right so So I'm wrestling with this.

58:02So I was just holding him. And I'm like, tell me how you feel. What are you feeling? I'm wanting him to express that he was frustrated with me or that he was upset. But he's too upset at that moment. But he's so uncontrollably crying that he couldn't. Every time he would try and talk to tell me what I did, which I knew I did, but I wanted him to tell me what I did. Oh, man. It literally, it took him 10, 15 minutes. We had to completely sit there. And I wouldn't let Katrina get involved because I could tell he wanted his mom just to hold him and told me I wanted him to sit in it. I wanted him to feel it.

58:32But I also wanted him to tell me what I did wrong so I could apologize. So I had to wait until he completely got all his composure. We had to eventually had to, like, it was a long time. It was like fucking 30 minutes of every time I'd go back to do it, it would cause him to break down again. And so we went and played. We ended up having dinner and playing cards and completely got him out of it. But then when I put him to bed, I wanted to still talk about it. So we had a chance to talk about it when we went to bed. And I said, hey, I said, daddy knows that that was my fault. Like, I shouldn't have done that.

59:03You know, and I tell him why. And I'm like, but I said, I also want you, son, when daddy does that, you tell me. I don't like that. I don't like how I feel. I want you to stand up with how you feel and tell me that. And you could tell, like, how hard it was for him because he said, you know, I was scared to. And I'm like, no, you can't be scared to share your feelings. Like, if you feel strongly about something, that you don't want to do that. And the reason why daddy wants you to be comfortable with doing it with daddy, because daddy is much bigger and stronger and scarier than any kid you're going to ever deal with.

59:31And so I want you to be able to do that. If a kid tells you that, that's why I want you to be strong and speak your mind and say that, Oh bro, tore me up to know that I did it. I've been there dude. Cause remember I told you, what did I, I brought up to you? I'm the one who brought up to you guys, the sarcasm thing, their brain. And that was that, that's a part of that was I was being, of course he loves Legos. So for me to be like, you don't even like Lego, You know that there's, did you know there's scripture? Maybe I shouldn't say that. Make you feel worse. No, no. I mean, I. There's scripture that literally says to fathers, don't provoke your children.

1:00:04No, I did 100 % provoke them. Do you know it says that? I know. Isn't that crazy? Katrina was like, I could see your face. And she's like, it was so cool to watch you navigate that. Because I could tell what you were going through. And you knew what you did. Yeah. And you know you don't like that. We don't like that. He cries and defaults to that. But I did it. Yeah. I provoked that, and so I got to weather this storm. Well, you know what he got to see? He got to see a repair. He got to see dad admit his fault and repair. There was a great study on that that showed that it was one of the best predictors of a child's success in relationships was how easily and well their parents apologized to them when they made a mistake.

1:00:44It was like one of the best predictors. Because you talk to some people, and you ask them, did your parents ever apologize to you? Never. Never. And they struggle with it themselves as adults. I forget what's her name, Becky, whatever. She talks about that study. Oh, does she? That's her whole spiel is a lot around how important that is. Because everybody always talks about how broken or destructive something has been. But it's repairable if you can do that. Changes the narrative. I mean, and I knew in that moment I needed to do that. But I just wanted him to be able to. You know what I did? But he was so uncontrollable crying that he couldn't even articulate.

1:01:17What's his name? Scott from Fig and Eagle gave some recommendations when we met with him. And one of the recommendations he gave me, which it took me a while to do because I had to really think about it and think about what I wanted. But he said, write your daughter a letter and in the letter, apologize for things in the past that you wish you did differently. And so I had to really think about it and I had to think about it and I kind of put it off. I'm like, what do I say? What do I do? And I finally did it. And it was very impactful. Did you read it to her? Did you just give it to her? I wrote it.

1:01:46I printed it. I put it on her bed oh wow yeah so she found it and got to read it and I like she just sent me a text I really love you and for my daughter to say it like that I could tell oh wow was that recent it was like a few days ago maybe oh wow so just recently oh that's so because what interests me is like I'm sure there's going to be some positive downstream effects of course you are right away oh my relationship with my daughter so great now and there's other stuff too but that's one of the things that's so cool yeah I know it's really really cool anyway I'm going to take a left turn and I just want to really give credit to Ketone IQ for their exogenous ketone supplement.

1:02:24I've used exogenous ketones before. Theirs, the mental sharpness I get from theirs is on another level. It's such an effective supplement for mental performance. And it's not a stimulant. They have one that's got caffeine in it. I don't use that one because I max out my caffeine every morning. I use the one that doesn't have caffeine. so you can go with caffeine too but man when i take it uh it's like 15 to 30 minutes later i just feel sharp it is so great i was looking at the data on it and it's backed by data well i was just going to ask you because i thought i saw in our group thread with katrina and them that the the amount they're one another one of those companies that do a lot of studies or have a lot of data to back that up have you gone through some of that stuff have you i know for mental performance is the best for athletic performance for endurance in particular it can have some benefits but for mental performance cognitive enhancement particularly these are the places where you see the data that supports it processing speed working memory and executive function so what that means is if you're impulsive it can help with impulse uh working memory and processing speed i value it for the podcast well long before we were even sponsored by ketone iq you've said forever like that's your protocol when you got to go travel and go on a ketogenic diet And whenever you have to get on a podcast to make you sharp and clear.

1:03:49I mean, it's also why I, for a long time, unless I have very specific goals where I'm trying to build or I'm doing a series or whatever like that, I tend to skip breakfast before we podcast. I feel sharper also, too. So it's just a testament to that. That was long before we even worked with it. But there's still value in taking it and not being in ketosis, which is the part that I was tripping out. That's right. Because that's why I was hesitant to kind of, you know, try it, use it. And then, you know, I think, who do we have on? Dr. Dan, I forget his name. But he was breaking it down and was, like, making sense out of, like, you know, still being able to utilize a lot of the ketones exogenously.

1:04:27I'm not on a ketogenic diet when I use it. Yeah. But it puts me in measurable ketosis because I have ketones. Well, that's what makes – this is what makes this supplement value. If you're already on a ketogenic diet, then you're getting a lot of those benefits, right? It's somebody who's not on a ketogenic diet to still be able to get the benefits. If you want the benefits, especially the brain benefits, the cognitive performance benefits of a ketogenic diet, but you don't want to go zero carbs, which I get, then you just take one of those shots, and then boom, 15 minutes. Oh, it's 15 minutes?

1:04:57It hits quick, and your brain uses it very quick. It's like jet fuel for the brain. So the brain's like, I'm going to use this. Is it because it's still got to go through the digestive process to then get out? It gets absorbed very quickly, and the brain sucks it up very, very quickly. Interesting. Very, very quickly. It's a clean source of energy. So all your cells love ketones, but the brain is really, really. Is that because when you drink things under your tongue, how you're certain? No, it just gets absorbed faster. So 15 to 30 minutes is what you like. Yeah, that's quick. So if you can actually test, you can use ketone strips, and you can pee on them, and you can see 30 minutes later.

1:05:36It'll come up. Yeah. Wow. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. It works really well. Dose liver support has been shown in studies to lower the liver enzymes you get when you do your liver tests. Okay, so ALT, AST. It makes your liver function better. And all you got to do is take a little dose of it every day. It's a few ounces. You drink it. It makes a big difference. What does this feel like? Well, when your liver is healthier, you have more energy. Your skin looks better. You burn body fat better. You metabolize sugar better. A healthy liver is a healthy body. It's a very easy supplement to take. It's easy. It tastes good.

1:06:15And again, the studies show that there is a reduction in liver enzymes when people use this on a daily basis. Go check it out. Go to Dosedaily.co forward slash Mind Pump. Use the code Mind Pump. Get 25 % off your first month subscription. Back to the show. Our first caller is Jacqueline from New York. Hi, Jacqueline. How you doing, Jack? Hello. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my question. I've been listening to you guys since, like, 2019, like, end of 2018. So you guys are phenomenal. Thank you. Hello. Yeah. So I'll just get right to it. So I'm from Long Island. I played three sports growing up, volleyball, basketball, and lacrosse, like, all the way growing up.

1:06:58Went to college for lacrosse, and I actually played five years because of the COVID year. We all got eligibility back. and basically my whole life and career everything was set out for me and like planned through so all of my athletic training all of my lifts my diet nutrition everything and it went into overdrive when I got to college um we met with like nutritionists dietitians we had a strength training coach we had um like a conditioning coach when you do conditioning it's just you're running around for two hours. So with that being said, I graduated officially in 2022 and that was it. I was done with sports and then I was kind of like on my own.

1:07:42From there, I mean, I have, I would say like all of your programs and the best like thing that I've seen with myself is like, I kind of have to go to the gym with a buddy, but none of my buddies want to do it as much as I convince them. It's just like, life is in the way. We're all 26 and 27 and just life is there. I've had three trainers. Two of them don't train anymore. And the other one, I basically was asking, like, I just want to get back into my college shape, which I know now, not a thing, but, and the results were not great with like the other coach. And so I've just lost complete trust in all of my trainers.

1:08:23I actually have an exercise science degree myself. And my family, I mean, both my parents lost about 60 pounds with the training and nutrition that I gave them and everything of that sort. I just can't do it for myself, and it's insane. And I do think the athlete mentality is crushing me. I think when I make programs for myself, I go full in, and then all of a sudden I fall off and I try something else. And then I just don't go. And then when I don't go, I start stressing out, and then I go back, and then I do something different. um but so right now I have two weddings um my fiance is from Cyprus so I have one in New York in April and the other one is in October in his country I've been a hunt between 148 and 150 pounds since 2022 um and like nothing really happens and I know the scale doesn't matter but it feels like the muscles melting off of me even though I feel like I'm training as hard as possible um so i don't know what to do yeah give it give us a second because doug's got to pull up these pictures so sal knows what sports you're talking about stupid yeah lacrosse is a very long island i know what it is i know what it is stop it they're just teasing me listen um so i got i got really good news and really bad news for you yep i figured so the bad news you've trained your psyche your behaviors for years, for years and years and years to have two gears.

1:09:57This is your psyche, two gears, all go, all on, 100 % off. There's nothing in the middle. So that's the bad news. The good news is you're very coachable because you've always been coached. You just have to make the decision to trust your new coaches or the different coaching. And it's going to be different than what you're used to. Because the challenge will be when you work with a coach who knows what they're doing is they're going to do things different than what you're used to, because the way you used to train was for peak performance and screw everything else. It was like, I'm going to be the best.

1:10:33I'm going to, I'm going to go hard. And that's really the priority in life. And so everything points to that. And you know what I'm talking about? This was your life. And so everything else can fall off. But now you're about to get married. You probably got a job. You're going to want to have kids. You're going to want to have kids at some point. You're still young, but at some point your body's going to get older. And so it's just not going to be able to tolerate the same kind of punishment. And so you just have to allow yourself to be coached differently so that you could change your approach.

1:11:05That's the best option you have. Doing it on your own is going to be very, it is the hardest thing ever is to take someone like you and have them figure it out on their own. It's very difficult because it looks exactly like what you experience, which is it's all on or all off. And then you're like, I'm all on and nothing's happening. Why isn't this happening? And then it's like, forget it. I quit. And so the reality is the switch is actually always on. it's just either all fitness or I'm off completely and it goes in that direction so what it tends to look like is either I'm training my ass off and I'm hyper focused or I eat like garbage and I don't do anything else and so you see this quite often you see this uh this is very common with high level athletes uh in the in the past boxers were famous for this they become obese in the off season and then when they're in camp they would get just you know super fit um and you just this this is a very difficult thing to do.

1:12:04The, your best bet is to work with a coach that knows what they're talking about and allow, there's a, there's a part of you that's good at this where you're coachable. It's just going to be different than what you're used to. So don't question it. Just like in the past, when your coach said, did do this thing. And what probably one of the, one of the things that made you an amazing athlete was you just did it. You're going to have to do that now. And then slowly it's going to change your behaviors and you're going to figure out a new stage of life. It takes, it takes a really special coach to one that has a lot of experience because the typical trainer will feed into what you like to do they get excited so if i if i got a 25 year old me training you would like i would be wrong i'd be i'd do it wrong i'd lean into what you love to push you and get and like we'd be high-fiving afterwards and i think that i'm doing the right thing but a trainer that's been doing this for a really long time it's going to be uncomfortable miserable what i have you do you're not going to like it and you're going to be like this is too easy this is not enough i want this i want and you'd be pushing and pushing back on me the whole time and i'd have to be continually to convince you that no this is the right amount of intensity this is the right amount of volume trust the process i got you you're in a different phase of your life right now you're not a college athlete that that's all you do is study and play sports hard and like you're in a different stage of your life you're in a different time of your life and this is what's appropriate and just trust the process and i'm going to get you to where you want to be and it's going to feel great but it's going to be difficult along the way and so this that that's what athletes are up there with some of the hardest ex-athletes are up there with some of the hardest clients i ever had to train and it wasn't because they lacked the discipline or the work ethic it was quite the opposite it was because they were so used to a level of work ethic and intensity that was just not appropriate for what their body needed this stage of their life.

1:13:55And let me add to that, Adam, because the ex-athletes that I've trained that did very well were the ones that applied. Surrendered. That's right. So, have you ever coached athletes yourself? I have. I'm a cross coach currently. Okay. Your best, you know this. I don't have to tell you this, but I'll say it so other people can hear it. The best athletes you have, besides talent and all that stuff, are the ones who do what you tell them. Surrender the process. and they don't question it yes I'm going to do it and those are the best athletes so that skill that you have which is also there which is what made you also awesome was that you were probably coachable if I talked to all your past coaches they'd be like oh yeah she's totally coachable I hope so you got to use that again it's just going to look different that's all so you need the right coach 100 % that's the problem so we got to find you somebody who can speak to that specifically and also like play into the fact that you're very competitive, but direct that competitive mindset towards things that are benefiting you and really get into that psychology.

1:15:03Because that's a superpower. And I think that like, you know, just shifting into a different phase for me, it was really difficult. And I had to be able to use that same, like competitive ness into the discipline of doing the right thing that actually was like benefiting my body, as opposed to just, you know, hammering weights and going as hard and as intense as possible yeah yeah yep and like the third trainer that i was talking about because the first two quit um personal training in general the third trainer that i was talking about that i had for about like a year they totally bought into like all the stuff that i was doing and like you guys said it was like okay so you want to do eight sets of 12 you know squats go ahead i'm like okay and nothing happened in a year so No, no, no, no, no.

1:15:50Most trainers will do that. It's a tough position when you're a young trainer and you're building your business. You just don't know any better. You don't know any better. I also want to keep my client happy. You like doing it. You're excited and stuff like that. Because you're not the common client, right? The common client doesn't want to work hard. They have difficulty with discipline. And then you get, I'll suddenly get this client that's like, oh, I love to go hard. You're like, cool, let's do it. Just throw the kitchen sink at you. That's right. And it's totally the wrong approach. Just to make you feel better, by the way, this doesn't mean that you're never going to tap into that old feeling.

1:16:20But what it's probably going to look like for most of your life is most of the time you don't train that way. And then you have like short seasons, which is probably going to look like, and it depends on what's happening in your life. Okay. But it's going to look like 20%, 10%, sometimes 5%, maybe when you have kids where you're getting after it and you're going to love it and you're going to totally love it. But the rest of it's going to look, look very different. So I don't want to, I don't want to discourage you be like, yeah, you can never get after it. No, you'll be able to. It's just not going to be like that all the time.

1:16:49So I have a few coaches in mind that I think would work really well with you. So if you're open for it, Jackie, I'll have somebody call you. And I think you'll be in good hands. And I think they'll take you in the right direction. Yeah, that would be awesome. Thank you guys so much. And I feel like I knew what I was going to hear, but I didn't. I think the discouragement of like the three trainers that I hired just freaked me out. Yeah, I get that. The hardest, there's a few types of clients that are very difficult to train that experienced trainers will do well with and everybody else will do poorly with.

1:17:23And one of them near the top are ex high level athletes. If you don't have experience, if you're not a good trainer in terms of experience, you're just going to do it wrong. And so, and you're just, you're just in that category. But like I said, I have a few coaches I think would work really well with you. So we'll have somebody call you. The cool part is that you're reaching out to us with plenty of time. I see your two calendar dates that you're coming up. So it's plenty of time to build your metabolism, to do things right. And then you can even get a little bit of a sprint in there right before that you enjoy, like right before the wedding, you know, and actually get great results for that hard work right before.

1:17:58But we want to build you up for that little sprint that you'll do first and not the other way around. Right out the gates, get into your sprinting. And that's just not where you want to be. And you said one of them's in Cyprus, one of your weddings? Yeah, one of them's in Cyprus. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, come on down. So we're 11. Gorgeous, gorgeous. Well, hey, congratulations. You crashed some weddings. Thank you. We'll have somebody reach out. Thank you so much. You guys are the best. You got it. Thanks. Recording. It's funny. Where's Cyprus? Cyprus is off the coast. Is it off the coast of Greece?

1:18:31Am I tripping? I believe it's out in that. I don't know exactly. I know it's a beautiful island. Yeah, I have no idea. I think it's near that whole area of the Mediterranean. But I could be wrong. Maybe look it up. I'll look it up. Yeah. Yeah, it's on the Eastern Mediterranean Sea. There you go. South of Turkey, west of Syria, north of Egypt. Yeah, gorgeous. So a lot of people wouldn't even think of this. They would probably think that an easy client would be one that was an ex-athlete. That's got the discipline, the structure. I remember the first time I got a client like this. And I'm like, oh, this will be easy.

1:19:02It was hard, man. Diet was hard. Training was hard. You would think diet's going to be hard? Dude, I had this. You're used to fueling so much. The worst of the diet. Oh, my God. I had this woman that I trained that was a highly competitive, uh, crew. So rowing, right. They beat the crap out of you. And I remember she was like, yeah, I'm only eating this, that, and the other. I'm like, how big is the chicken breast that you're eating? She's like, Oh, it's just a normal chicken breast. I said, can you show me? I'm like, that's 12 ounces. That's a big chicken breast. It's like, I used to eat this all the time.

1:19:33Like, yeah, dude, that's not a serving for you anymore. You're not, you're not exercising four hours a day. It's hard to, when you're a young trainer and you get a client like that, like we were saying, that likes to train that way. It was fun. You know what I'm saying? It's just like she's the one who's down to do the crazy box jumps and the sprints and the plyos and all the crazy stuff. They can do all the crazy moves. Yeah, yeah, and they want to do it, but it's not what she needs. And so it'll take an experience. But one of our coaches will take good care of her, so she's in good hands. And the fact that we're catching her right now.

1:20:02Perfect. Her first wedding's in April. The other one's in October. Yeah, we got time. Plenty of time. Our next caller is Skylar from California. What's up, dude? How you doing, Skylar? Hey, good morning. How you guys doing? Good. How can we help you? Nice to meet you. You too. Really, really easy question, hopefully, for you guys. So I looked it up on Mind Pump AI, and you've supposedly never answered this one before. So I'm curious to hear what you guys have to say. Okay. I don't know. Yeah, I know sometimes. Again, ultimately, it's really, hopefully, quite simple. And I've actually started doing it.

1:20:31So I'm curious to see if you guys like what I've done. So I've been really interested in the idea of functional fitness. and so my wife did a great job on my birthday recently and bought me some gym rings so that I can do some gym ring workouts and it's very similar to you know the suspension trainer but I'm currently going through anabolic for the second time and I've been swapping out some of the some of the anabolic workouts like pull-ups and you know barbell curls and things like that with gym rings. And I'm curious to know what your guys' thoughts are on, you know, how I should go about swapping out exercises for gym rings, other things to look out for, specific exercises that would be good for it, et cetera.

1:21:19I love that. I think what you're already doing is a good idea. Your biggest challenge will be lower body, right? Right. I mean, that's going to be possible. Is your ultimate goal to get really good at the rings? ultimately my goal is to be healthy and functional and move well um i've only been doing strength training you know seriously for the last like year or so um and i already kind of feel stiffer and tighter and i just don't feel like i'm moving as well um yep we'll send you so we'll send you i may send you maps performance the mobility in there and the workouts in there will be better for what you're looking for yeah okay and then for you know uh rings are very technical so yeah there's a physical component that requires strength and fitness, but there's a technical component that is really about skill.

1:22:07And so the best way you'll get better at using the rings is to practice them often. Yeah. And I mean, if you wanted to model, because it's so similar to TRX and suspension trainer, we actually have a program just, you know, using it specifically, but I mean, the biggest value that I got from doing a bunch of ring training was, you know, ring dips, pull-ups, obviously in any of that rotation ability while you're pulling or pressing uh so really expressing that and then you know that body control and uh you know strength uh you know using those i think it's very valuable but in combination with weights i think is is the move i mean a more kind of generic answer was what i think you're kind of looking for and i love that sal sent over performances i think i would run maps performance for all lower body stuff and then my upper body movements, I would do the rings.

1:23:00Yeah. And that's, that's kind of what I was thinking. You guys were going to say, and I was thinking about performance as well. Um, and so far how I've been doing it on anabolic, cause that's one of the plans of yours that I own. I own a couple, but, um, I've been doing all of the low body, obviously with the barbell, you know, exactly as run. And I've just been swapping out some of the ones, even some of the barbell exercises for the upper body I'm keeping. I just kind of swapped out a few of them that seemed like a, you know perfect one for one transition where i can still overload them because i'm in phase one and the strength portion and i want to make sure that i'm still getting the heavy low rep weights um so that's what i've been doing cool and i'm excited to try performance that'd be great yeah no it just you know and just just mentality wise um when you're doing something like rings it's not don't think of it as training body parts yeah think of it as training movement patterns yeah sure so so when you lay when you lift weights i mean often not always right performance is movement based but when you lift weights oftentimes it's body part focus chest shoulders you know biceps back uh but that's uh getting good at something like rings you don't want to necessarily think of it that way we're like okay this is a bicep exercise this is a check it's really about just practicing movement patterns and that'll get you better out of so thinking from that perspective uh and justin probably has the most experience i would not definitely probably definitely has the most experience with this and i know you said you love dips like so would you like try and practice two or three or one movement on the rings and then you just take out things in a program so for example like ring dips you're getting a lot of shoulder chest and tricep action and so that you're just going to practice that all the time and then i imagine that you would just eliminate a lot of the shoulder tricep type of work and chest work in the is that what you would do yeah yeah i would definitely uh have to um switch swap some out you know to to accommodate for that and then there's also that like progressive ability within rings so if you know you turn that into a muscle up like yeah you get into the fact where you're up at the top and you know we can actually push out and and work on the iron cross and so but the thing about it is like the rings bring a whole nother level of intensity that you could skill train like that Like you're saying, you could build up to a degree that's really high level.

1:25:23So that's my point. And I think this is what Sal's trying to communicate is that the rings in itself is it's its own, almost like somebody who's asking us, they want to play soccer and they want to lift weights also. And we're like, listen, you focus on just playing soccer and then we'll supplement with some lifting. So what that might look like is like you're doing rings almost every day or every other day. And you're just kind of practicing these movements. Like you're trying to get good at the muscle up. You're trying to get good at the dips. And then you lift a little. And then you lift a little and primarily probably lifting lower body stuff, since a lot of that stuff is going to put a lot of demand on your chest, back, shoulders, arms to get good at the rings.

1:25:59And so what it looks like is you're doing rings a lot throughout the week. And one day a week, you're probably doing a lower body type of weight lifting routine. That's probably what's going to serve somebody who's trying to get good at the rings and stay kind of mobile. And I like the idea of using performance exercises. I like that. If you had like a few staple like, you know, challenges that you're really going to like stick with and build yourself up to with the ability with the rings. So that would be the muscle up. That would be, you know, front back levers. That would be, you know, anchor pushups.

1:26:32That would be, what was the other one I was trying to think of? I think that. Iron Cross. Iron Cross. Thank you. That would be your bangers right there for sure. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And ultimately, you know, I think the idea of getting good at gym rings is fun just because it sounds like a fun challenge. But ultimately, I'm going for just, you know, movement ability in all the different planes. So I think that works perfectly. And I was joking with my wife that my 30s, which I just started, is the decade of the Iron Cross is what I joked her about. So before I get 40, I want to be able to hit an Iron Cross.

1:27:07Watch how strong you get, though, just focusing on that. Just so you know, it's one of the craziest bicep-building movements you could do. I believe it. And this is why, too, I say, like, if I'm doing those movements, Justin, I'm just trying to practice that as if it was a sport, and then once a week I'm probably doing, you know, some of the leg stuff for mass performance. That's it. It's leg stuff for mass performance, and then I'm doing all practicing the rings, the movements that we just talked about, and then if you do anything else, it's mobility work that's from performance. to just... Just to add to that, if you're going out to your garage or whatever to do the rings, don't think of it like a workout.

1:27:49It's not like you're doing a MAPS workout. You're going out there to practice. That will get you way better and stronger than going out and trying to get a workout. You just go out there and practice all the time, 30 minutes, and you'll progress. Skill development. You're building a new skill. Yeah, sounds great. Cool idea, though. Yeah, do it, man. You'll get strong, man. Definitely. Yeah. Sounds great. Yeah. And really quick. Yeah. I just want to thank you guys for something very specifically. My wife and I, we've been married for a while, but she, she has endometriosis and she's had two surgeries for endometriosis and we've gone to naturopaths, you know, we've done all the clean eating, we've done everything, you know, everything.

1:28:32And, you know, symptoms got better, blah, blah, blah, but they started getting real bad. And it was only thanks to listening to you guys that she was willing to go on a reverse diet. And within three weeks, her reverse diet completely changed her life. You know, every month she was getting seriously bad migraines and all sorts of things and, you know, growing up and it was, it was bad. And we thought we were going to have to have another surgery. But again, thanks to you guys, reverse diet within three weeks, she gained like five pounds and hasn't had a migraine since. Wow, that's remarkable. That's amazing.

1:29:06Yeah, it is. Kind of absolutely wild. I don't know how a naturopath didn't, you know, recommend gaining some weight. But, yeah, thank you guys so much. Yeah, you got it. I'm glad to help. It's going to be changed our lives. That's awesome. You got it. Thanks, Kyler. Yeah, have a good one. You too. Have a good one. Is metabolically, that's why? No idea. Typically, you're looking at improving insulin sensitivity. But it depends on the individual. I wonder if she was, like, super under-eating. Yeah, it had to be. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my sister's been riddled with that for a really long time. I have to ask her about when she's gone through phases where she's really, really.

1:29:43I know she's more sensitive for sure when she's lost a lot of weight and she's low calorie. Then she doesn't have that same metabolic function. So maybe building the muscle allows that. And so she's not getting the autoimmunism. That's interesting. It is. That's the first time I've heard that. How long did you just do rings for, Justin? You did it for a while, right? Yeah, I did it almost a full year. yeah I took this certification it was all gymnastics based and so I was really trying to move this crazy like Clydesdale body around doing stuff like that and then yeah I was messing with him for a long time I did some weights but for the most part I was trying literally to get a muscle up and I was trying to do a lot of these front levers and things and it was like my legs are really heavy would you wear the leotard too?

1:30:29I definitely did it and it was, yeah. No, you didn't. Why would I, why would I wear a leotard? I don't make one that size, bro. Yeah. Looked like a onesie on them. No. And I did most of it at my house. Did I tell you guys when I was, uh, when you, when you were a leotard? Listen, I never competed in powerlifting. Okay. But I trained like a powerlifter for a, for a season. So you wanted to wear a suit? And I bought a singlet. Why did I do that? Of course you did. Why did I do that? Of course you did. In my, in my own gym. I just worked out in it for a couple of times. No, you didn't. Yes, I did.

1:30:58Oh my God. I wish we were friends back then. to you. Oh my God. You would have prevented it. You would have helped me. I would have encouraged it. You look so good in that. You would have lied to me. I would have lied to you. I would have lied to you. Let you do it for a long time. And then I would have made fun of you for years. Then I would have walked around outside. Loose knuckle. Whoa. Whoa. That was good. Our next caller is Rob from New Jersey. What up, Rob? Hey, guys. How's it going? How's it going, man? Happy to be here. Yeah. Thanks for having me. You really enjoy yourself. Yeah. How can we help you?

1:31:27So I'm 53 years old. And I basically, I seem to grow. And I don't know why. I think I'm doing everything right. My nutrition, I think, is where I need to be. My workout intensity is high. Frequency is consistent. I think the two factors for me are sleeping and stress. those are the things i really can't say or or uh optimum that that that that paired with results that paired with uh the consistency and the intensity could be your problem so if you already know that you're not the best at sleeping you've got a little bit of a stressful life, and then you also hit the gym pretty intense, this could be the exact reason why you're not seeing the results that you deserve.

1:32:29Tell me about your sleep, Rob. What's going on? So I'm up early in the morning. I start my day at 4.30. I'm trying to hang in bed at 9 or 9.30. And I have built sleep. I wake up with thoughts and ideas and sometimes I'm up at 3, sometimes I'm up at 2.30, and then suddenly day starts. How long has that been happening? My whole life. Okay. Sometimes reducing training intensity and volume helps with sleep. Do you take any supplements before bed? I do. I take zinc, magnesium, and that's it. Before bed, that's all I take. Try Apigenin. epigenin epigenin really it helps a lot there's a lot of data now coming out it's one of the active components in chamomile okay you can also add theanine to that if you want to add one more thing um and those two things i've had the best success uh with the people that i've worked with that i've helped um other than that here's the thing too rob you you look fit dude you're 53 you might be a little hard on yourself you do look good you look good bro well thanks I appreciate that but I think I should look better than who when you're around your 53 year old friends and you guys are all hanging out and you're at the beach or whatever you're doing stuff who looks the best how much further are you than them in terms of fitness yeah I would say that I'm I'm more fit and more active and more able than a lot of my friends that are my age.

1:34:13So we all work on cars. And my friends have a hard time getting around or under the car or something. And I could easily roll around and slip over the car and do all that kind of stuff. So I'm happy about that. And that is one of the motivating things for me to stay fit so that I could do this kind of thing to work for a long time. Good for you. Yeah. But also, let's be honest. it's a different universe Rob I know people in their 50s and you're in a completely different universe so that's I'm just trying to communicate to you that don't be so hard on yourself but maybe I could send you a program to follow that will help you out a little bit and then try those supplements before bed to see how they help how many days a week do you work out three sometimes four but always three do you have a home gym or do you go to the gym I have a gym I live in a department building And we have a gym in the building Okay I'm at 15, dude Of course The first place I went was that direction Especially since we haven't got into what those routines You seem like the type of guy that Pushes while you're in the gym too I mean, are you training pretty intense?

1:35:25I do, yeah I don't have a lot of time to be in the gym So I don't do a long, drawn workout I want every move to be effective and moving forward. So I do. I push hard, strict on my form, and I try to make the most of every rep. Rob, if you'll give us, just give me three weeks, okay? I'm going to send you MAPS 15. You're not going to like it. But after about three weeks, you're going to love it though. Yeah. Okay. You're going to be in the gym. It's like medicine. You're going to be in the gym about six or seven days a week, but you're only going to be in there for about 20 minutes. You're only doing two exercises a day.

1:36:00That's it. That's it. Okay. And after about two weeks or so, you'll start to see yourself get stronger and feel better, and then you'll know it's working. Okay. So I'm going to send that to you. If you're okay with trusting us for a couple weeks. That's why I'm here. All right. I'm going to send that to you. And I see, I already saw you're pretty good. You exceed your protein goals. You're good on food, it looks like. I mean, and so that's, since you're, just keep doing that. Yeah. And I really do think it's the volume and intensity you're probably getting. This may unlock those gains for you.

1:36:30Yeah. Hopefully we start seeing a little bit improvement, just a little bit of improvement in sleep and the reduction of intensity and volume on your training i think you're going to see results from that right away yep okay another thing about my eating is is i could eat more like i'm i'm always hungry okay and i'm always eating good whole foods i'm not eating any junk at all okay um and i could eat more but i think that i i start to see a layer of fat when i when i increase my calories more how lean are you um i don't know what my percentages, but currently you can't see my abs. You can, or you can't?

1:37:07Cannot. Okay. I mean, if you're going to build muscle, you're probably going to gain a little bit of, you don't need to go in that big of a surplus to gain strength. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm assuming a guy like you, you're pretty, probably pretty structured. So you probably eat right around the same kind of things every day. Yeah. Okay. Add like a, a 250 calorie meal, just an, just an additional small meal and that's it and then follow maps 15 and that should be enough to to start to see some muscle growth is it is there a certain time in the day like is it like a middle of the day you find yourself extra hungry is it at night is there a certain time just show i could probably have one more meal during my work day there you go yeah yeah go for it yeah add a cottage cheese or a greek yogurt type of something that's like a nice balance like easy 200 300 calorie types that's it And just that's it.

1:37:57And that that little bit of an increase with the reduction of intensity. I think we see an improvement in sleep and I think we build some muscle. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if you gained a few pounds of muscle at the end of the program. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to touch bases with you. Give us give us 30 days. Let's get you back on. All right. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do that, Rob. You got it, man. Thank you. All right, man. Yeah, it's always it's always so. So I was just thinking about this this morning. I'm in the gym working out and there's a you know, I go early. Right.

1:38:25So you see the regular crowd. And you'll see people, they appear to be in their 50s, 60s fit. And you get used to it because you see these people. But when you're fit and you're older, the older you get, as long as you maintain your fitness, man, you are so different than the average person that age. It's so different. You're 65 and you're working out. Your friends are on medications and hurt all the time. That's the difference. It's like, I work out and I can do that and I feel good. And my friends hurt all the time and they're on seven different medications. That's crazy. It's amazing. So, you know, just talking to someone like you can tell he's fit.

1:39:05You can see he's doing great. It's like, you know, sometimes too, because, you know, okay, we can make improvements. But sometimes I take a, you know, look at the big picture. You know, I'd be like, oh, yeah, that's right. I'm doing pretty good, man. Well, yeah, there's no doubt he's healthy and fit. He's healthy and fit for any age. You can tell he's not. So even though he can't see his abs, we've talked about this before. I mean, he's probably in the low teens of body fat percentage, which is very healthy for 53. But I also get, too, if you're the guy who eats whole foods, you're very consistent with your protein, you're training four days a week, you get after it in the gym.

1:39:40Hey, shouldn't I be sick? A couple tweaks. Yeah, shouldn't I? And a lot of times, right away, when he said that sleep and stress isn't the best of things, and then he gets after his workouts, to me it's like it's very obvious it's like i pull back on that intensity and that bumper colors volume bump calories a tiny bit and he should build some muscle totally our next caller is kayla from louisiana hi kayla hello how you doing guys so first of all this is surreal and i'm just going to read what i wrote okay before i introduce myself i just want to say i found the podcast about a year ago and i've basically been binging with ever since going back through many episodes and this isn't one of the obligatory compliments.

1:40:21Your content has truly shifted how I view health fitness and I don't say that lightly. Thank you. Awesome. I shout your name through the rooftops, recommend you guys to everyone I know. And I also want to shout out to Doug, the production quality, the flow. It's incredible and it's not unnoticed. And in your recent episode with Roxanne, which I absolutely loved, you mentioned how people are often surprised at how you're exactly the same off air as in person. and that's where you're so impactful. Your authenticity truly shows you the show. So that's my thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:40:55Now onto my question. My name's Kayla. I'm from South Louisiana, a true Cajun through and through. I'm a 37 year old retired business owner, now domestic engineer, CEO of this household. I'm a mom of four. My kids are eight, four, six, and two. I've always been very active my entire life. I've played sports. And in the last three, almost four years, I've gotten really serious about my health, fitness, and longevity after having my third child, which was my first daughter. My first two were boys. And after becoming a mom to a daughter, it really shifted how I thought about modeling health, strength, and my self-talk.

1:41:27To be very honest and vulnerable, I am a self-proclaimed recovering body dysmorphic arthroxic scale addict. I've done a lot of work around this mentally, and I've come a long ways, but the scale can still be mentally loud, even when the process is sound. I'm about two and a half years postpartum from my fourth baby, another girl. I've been working with an online coach since June. We started in a deficit and I lost 10 pounds and then we transitioned into a build, which I'm currently still in a build. Training wise, I strength train five days a week, two glute hamstring days, one traditional lower, one push, one pull.

1:42:03I average about 10 ,000 steps a day, often quite more, which is easily done with the lifestyle of four kids and we're just active. I play tennis once a week doubles. I do Pilates and yoga on the weekend as part of my active recovery. I'm very disciplined, honestly, to a fault, kind of like Sal, and consistency and discipline have never really been the issue for me. Little body composition context. After my third baby, when I was in arguably the best shape of my life, my DEXA put me at about 20 % body fat. My most recent DEXA this past December put me at about 15 % body fat, which I don't share as a flex, but to illustrate that my goals are about performance, longevity, and sustainability.

1:42:39We've continued increasing calories. I'm currently at about 2 ,300 calories, 120 protein because of some gut issues. We've decreased my protein for digestion, 300 carbs, 70 fat. My metabolism adapted really well. We kept pushing food. My body composition just improved noticeably stronger in the gym. The improvements in strength and performance have honestly been the most validating part of this whole process. For most of the reverse, the scale did not move. The scale has stayed stable within three pounds. And then I had one week where the scale legit went up 12 pounds in a week, and it devastated my mental health, admittedly.

1:43:15Since submitting the question, though, one very important variable that came to light was I started a very high dose of a corticosteroid with a tapering protocol because of some gut issues, whole separate conversation. But once that medication kind of leveled out, my weight stabilized again, back down to basically where we started the build. So I understand now the spike was not purely body composition related, but the question still stands because even when the changes are explainable, the mental process can still be challenging. I think most of us, especially women know the technical how of a bulk, a build calorie surplus, progressive, adequate protein, where the struggle isn't necessarily the knowledge, but the managing the expectations and the mindset while the process is actually unfolding.

1:43:55And this is where I want your clarity. What is realistic weight gain during a bulk? Over what time frame should it be evaluated when starting a cut? How aggressive should that cut typically be? Is it only carbs and fats that are adjusted while you keep your protein? What's a realistic rate of fat loss during a cut that still supports strength and muscle retention? And on the mental side of things, how do you help clients distinguish between normal expected discomfort during a productive bulk versus signs that something really needs adjusting? And for those of us who struggle, scale fixation, body dysmorphic, what are the best ways to track progress, measurements, photos, performance, DEXA?

1:44:32What do you recommend without letting the scale undermine your mental health? Like I said, I think a lot of women want to build muscle. But on the mental side, trusting the process through the normal fluctuations is often the biggest barrier. Love your perspective on that. And if you're still with me, not sleeping, thank you for listening. I really appreciate your insight time. And I really do look forward to your insight on this. Great detail. Thank you, Kayla. God bless you. I love you. great questions that i'm not going to answer i'm not going to answer a single question glad you got that out okay so so because i'm talking to you okay and you gave me a lot of background i have my two-year-old right here so if you hear mommy she's right here eating lunch okay no worries so you gave me a lot of context i know who i'm talking to so here's the answer and in this this is what's going to help you i don't know if you're going to want to do this but this is going to help you stop tracking and measuring everything everything you're not going to stop it you don't even ever need a cut either right don't track your your your dexa no more dexas no more scale no more studying yourself in the mirror no more circumference measurements pay attention to the weight that you're lifting that's fine because you're going to see that yeah strength stop tracking everything that's the only way you're going to get out of this yeah and you're you're going to be not only you're going to be fine you're going to be better yeah because you're trapped in a cycle right now.

1:45:50And what you're doing, okay, is you're managing it, or at least you're trying to manage it. So you know what the challenges are with, you know, dysfunction around, you know, fitness and nutrition. And so what you're trying to do is you're trying to fix it by controlling it, which is the exact opposite of what you need to do, because the root of the issue is control. Okay. So it's like, it's like, you know, I'm trying to control my way out of a control issue it's not going to work it's just going to be the same it's just going to be the same so stop tracking everything and you'll be totally fine yeah you'll be you're going to be way better well it'll be extremely difficult is what it'll be hard but it's it is it's the path it's the path you you like you like you've already said about yourself uh you don't lack discipline you don't act you don't lack movement you don't lack motivation you got you have all the tools to be a healthy, fit person for the rest of your life, the thing that is crutching you is the obsession with the cutting, the bulking, the Dexascan, all those things.

1:46:52I mean, that's what you got to get rid of. You got to get rid of all that stuff. It sounds what you're doing right now is you're reverse dieting to go back into a cut. You should be reverse dieting to stay somewhere forever and not count calories. You should be reverse dieting to get to a place where you're like, man I feel well fed I'm strong I have good energy I sleep well and I think I land somewhere around 23 to 2600 I don't know I don't know I land somewhere around I know I'm eating a good amount of weight or amount of food that maintains me in this healthy place that I don't really even pay attention to because I don't see huge swings down or up it's just our goal is to get too intuitive eating and to not be a tracker and where and and and the motivation is how you started the conversation is that i don't want my daughter to see me weighing and measuring food and constantly in a reverse diet to just get into a cut to do like no i want her to see me eat on a normal dinner plate like with everybody else and we and and and not be counting and tracking on my phone or checking my dexa scan results taylor what are you scared of not having a goal i think it's part of it because i feel like what happens so So back in October, I had a very hard, fast goal.

1:48:11I was actually very honored to be part of a magazine photo shoot for Strong Magazine. And with that, there was a goal, right? So it was very dialed in per se in terms of I knew the goal. And now it's like when I don't have a goal to shoot for, I don't know if I'm not tracking or if I'm not keeping track of the weights I lift. Like, I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense. It does, but we got to get further. I agree with you about the control thing I know this about myself I do have control issues yeah so so I know this about myself so being afraid of not having a goal is not really what you're afraid of it's it's what you think's going to happen when you don't have a goal what do you think's going to happen oh well that's an obvious one for me what is it it goes back to my root of the scale say it goes back to looking in the mirror and not liking who I look yeah how I look what do you think you're going to look like if you don't have a goal I guess it's not that I don't have a goal um I don't know that's an interesting question that I think I would have to think harder on but I think you are correct that it goes back to that fear of I don't know and I say that my goal is health and longevity but sometimes aesthetics still get caught up in there so you gotta say what you're afraid of so that you can hear it what do you think's gonna happen what's the fear what's gonna happen to Kayla if she doesn't have a goal trauma from way back when surfaces through this.

1:49:39You're gonna make me cry because I know why sometimes it's not to say superficial, but sometimes I feel like it can be superficial when that's not the long-term goal. And I fear that I go back to not liking who I see in the mirror physically. And that's not, that's not good. But Kayla, I got to tell you something, hon. You're not treating yourself like you like yourself right now. I hear you say it all the time. And I hear your voice in my head. Yeah. So you got to think, what is the fear? What's going to happen? What do you think you're going to look like?

1:50:19Fat. Yeah. You're not. No. That's not going to happen. No. And you got, listen, you got four kids? Yes. Your value to them is not if mom is 15 % body fat. I see you, baby. Yeah. That's not your value. you. You got to let go of it. And here's now, here's the thing. You can't just pass it down. Yeah. Let that be your motivation. I can't. Yes, yes, yes. That's, and that's what I would say to you if I was coaching you that let that be your motivation. You can't, and look, you can't just not do something. So I'm going to tell you what to do. Okay. Focus on enjoying the workouts, focus on enjoying the nourishment that you're doing focus on the freedom of breaking free from these chains that's the focus so when you go work out have fun am i having fun you know honestly i do i really enjoy my workouts so much that i wake up very early to get it done because i love it good i really do just focus on that i i like when i'm training somebody like you i really like to take you into a workout routine that's so different and that's all we talk about when we focus on like for example um i don't know if you've ever done something different and weird like old-timey where we're doing these weird kind of movements and we and we get more into that like we get more into i haven't looked at okay okay so the windmills yes yes always talk about because i have a few of your programs i don't think i have old time and that and someone like you i love to move into a place like drastically different it's so drastically different that it forces you to just think about the movement because you're like i've never done this this is weird and it's like yes let's get all into that let's get all into trying to figure that out and getting good at that and moving that way and move away from looking in the mirror the scale my dex scan and try and like and if you just do that and you eat the way you've always ate which is healthy and good and you don't weigh your in track and measure about it you just you're not make the same choices you've always made when you're hungry you're not gonna blow up you're not it's not gonna happen but look you're not are you open to working with a car are you yes it is yeah it's super scary yeah i'm speaking from personal experience can i tell you what i just recently did i got rid of my you got rid of the scale i've been listening yes and when you said that i'm like that's what i need to do yeah and you know what i hate it and you know i weigh myself just like you every single morning when i don't weigh myself like i wonder what i weigh today when we're camping i don't i used to bring a scale camping with us how ridiculous yeah listen don't don't yeah i get it listen you know what i started doing i started using circumference measurements i caught myself the other day i'm like wait a minute what am i traded one thing for something else um are you open to working with a coach i've often heard you guys talk about corinne yeah that's the one that i've often hear you guys talking about but i am absolutely open and willing i've actually had a call scheduled but at the time i've always had to cancel this hashtag life for kids yeah and it's just it's never came to fruition just because i'll have her call you yeah let's have her call you and what you're gonna have to do is just follow what she tells you because you're gonna hate it at first yeah until you until you start to figure it out it's super hard are you kidding me yeah yeah it's super hard but that's the the move is to invest in yourself and outsource it right now so yeah so you can just let it go okay i've got a coach who's really good at what they do and i'm just and i'm gonna take my competitiveness that i have or my focus that i have on listening to what they have to say and following what they have to say.

1:53:44And then also somebody who gives you that consistent feedback because you need to hear it. I'm definitely uber competitive. So yeah, and we'll put it towards the right things. You know what too? Like trying to control everything's exhausting. It's going to feel so freeing when you let go of these things, but it's so scary.

1:54:05I was just going to say though, for sake of, you don't have to answer today on the call, but I do know that I posed the question on the coah too and i there was a lot of people that actually said it was a good question so maybe for other women who want to manage whatever i don't know if they're as quote extreme as me because i i know this about myself yeah but just the the hard facts about expectations because i do think that is a hard part like when the scale jumped on me like that it was um well look you you are you are way more way more common than you think you are yeah but this is this is there there's a there is a lot of women that struggle with this is most of our career the reason why we can articulate this is because it's been decades of talking to people i would none of us were that good at 23 talking to someone like you didn't know what the hell we're doing but years and years and years and years of helping a lot of people and what we always say on the podcast i know you hear this is like the hard part is the psychological part it is not the physical part it is not the discipline it's not it's like it's the psychological part and that's the value of the coach is having somebody who understands that who is constantly communicating with you and knows that about you like you don't need somebody who's gonna measure macros and and adjust calories for you so much as to talk to you and say you're gonna be okay we're doing the right thing trust me and you know like a 12 pound weight gain in a week is impossible to be body fat yeah it's impossible objectively i know that yeah and you know what if you didn't weigh yourself all the time you wouldn't have freaked out as much you might have felt something and you're like what's going on it was obvious now you were probably puffy you were probably puffy yeah yeah you're holding a bunch of water yeah you're holding and see if i was coaching you that's what i say to you i don't even worry about you're holding a bunch of water right now that's right you're holding i know what i'm controlling your diet i know what's going on with your training i know your steps don't worry i know what that is that's water you're holding it and could be a hormone thing could be a shot we took it could be a lot of it was the steroid yeah of course of course and i would tell you and that's what you see in the mirror right now is the a puffy version of you right now holding a bunch of water don't worry that'll release it'll come out and and you saw it did but that's the value of the good coach is that when that moment happens it doesn't spiral you out of control or keep you up or stress you out because i i let you know right away like oh yeah don't even trip you're holding water right now i can see it on you it'll release yeah bring you back to high school yeah that's what i would say to you now this is gonna be great this is gonna be great we'll have a coach call you.

1:56:27I think this is going to be great. It's going to be hard, but you're going to come out of this and you're going to be so much happier. I'm okay. Yes. All right. We got you. you were quiet today man I mean I'm just listening when he gets emotional that's why

1:56:48it's awesome guys you guys are awesome we'll take care of you we're going to have someone call you thank you that's tough and all those questions she asked I'm not going to answer that she tried to sneak one pass at the end just for other people nice try I'm not going to answer that for you. It's usually hypothetical. Yeah, but I have a friend. No. Yeah. No, it's tough, dude. I live it, man. I know what it's like, dude. It's really, really. It's a beast. It's always in the background. It's very, very difficult. But it's not taking care of yourself. And it is trying to control everything. That's what it is.

1:57:26You have to surrender and outsource. And the tough part, I feel, for the other listeners that can relate to that, it's also outsourcing somebody who actually really knows what they're doing. Of course. Because, again. Oh, God, yeah. You're the wrong person. Yeah, you know, a trainer who's just going to focus on macros with her. So it sounds like that's what she's done. She's got someone who's, oh, we're reverse dieting. It's like, last thing you need to be doing is overly focusing on. Anything. Yeah, like she's reverse dieting in order to put herself back into a cut, which she doesn't belong ever doing.

1:57:58You know what's crazy about this? I think I talked to you about this just in off air. There's a guy named Jonathan Pejiao that talks about the roots of fairy tales and what they meant. And the fairy tale, and I think it's Sleeping Beauty, if I'm not mistaken. The one where the evil queen is like, mirror, mirror on the wall. Who's the fairest? Is that? Okay. Yeah, yeah. You know what happens in that story? This evil princess says this. The mirror says, oh, the fairest in the land and the most beautiful is this young woman. Right. And that's Snow White. Snow White. So you know what she does to corrupt this young lady?

1:58:29She gives her a gift and it's a mirror and a brush. Yeah. And you think, how does that corrupt this beautiful young woman? too obsessive about herself because now she's now she sees her reflection and she's aware of her beauty yeah how crazy is that and that's like i wonder if we didn't have mirrors and scales and and all that how many you know there's a lot of people that would benefit from not looking at those things all the time yeah yeah look if you like the show come find us on instagram mind pump media we'll see you there thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family.

1:59:54We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump.