2781: What GLP-1s Exposed About Dieting, Training, and Longevity

28:24It's not basic stuff, it's difficult ones. and it's recorded. And so this type of content, a lot of the feedback from our trainers has been extremely valuable. So we've literally used that type of stuff and then we've categorized it, right? So that's like if you are working with a client and you have fat loss stuff that you're dealing with or you have someone reverse dieting or you have someone trying to muscle build. So it's really easy for the trainer who's a part of our community to be able to find the resources they want to help them be better coaches. and school just delivers that really well.

28:56And then there's also going to be like one-on-one coaching that you'll be able to do with like Ann and our coaches and stuff like that will be other tiers. But the main reason why I wanted you to bring it up today is because this is the final three days that you can get in there for free. Free. And it's free for life if you get in there right now. After that, you pay. After that, it's going to be a monthly subscription to have access to all this. So it's free for life if you go in there? Yes. Oh. So if you get in right now, You can get into the community for free. Eventually, by February, we're going to charge to have access to that.

29:29So how do you get in there for people listening? You get the school app and you search up what? Mind Pump coaches? Yeah, I'm sure we can have a link. Can we put a link directly to that? Yeah, we can. So we put a link in the show notes. You'll be able to look up Elite Trainer Academy. I think that's what she – did we name it? Did Ann name it Elite Trainer Academy or did we – Yes. Okay. So, yeah, you look up Elite Trainer Academy, Mind Pump. You'll see it under there. And if you get in before February 1st, it's free. if you don't get input. So if you're a coach or a trainer or even an aspiring one and you're not yet, get in there now so that it's free.

30:00Going forward, it'll be a monthly membership. Any interest there for sure. This is a great opportunity for you. All right, I want to ask you guys a question because I think I know what answer you're going to give me because I have a study that just came out. It's really interesting. So what is the widely held belief on when a man's sexual desire peaks? Like what age? Teenage, 16. Okay, 16. 16, what do you say? Yeah, I would say like 20, maybe 18. So I've always heard it's like 18, right? Maybe 20, maybe, you know, that's when your sexual desire peaks. Yeah. It's not true. So they did a huge study.

30:33Over 67 ,000. So it's a big study, over 67 ,000 men. We were 80? And what they did. Whoa! Men's, you know, quote unquote craving or desire for sex was at its highest point when men were in their late 30s, early 40s. Now here's what they find. It's not because it's when you have the most testosterone. Definitely not. It's not because you have the shortest refractory period. That's when you're 18, meaning you could have sex multiple times. Most confident? It's because they're realizing that relationship dynamics play a much more significant role than initially anticipated. In other words, stable long-term relationships are strongly associated with increased sexual activity and emotional intimacy.

31:19so you're in a more mature relationship which is wonderful as I was going to say the more you've talked about studies before the people who report the best sex are people that have been in relationships for a long time and been married for 30 years and women hit their peak in their 30s so a lot of guys probably that are married been married for years get the benefits of that so I would imagine there's some sort of a feedback loop well what it is that might also be a myth Adam I don't know that might also be about women's sexual peek at this whatever. I think really what it is, and this is a great study, is we're constantly told, the world constantly tells us, media, whatever, that it's when you're hottest, right?

32:00It's when you're teens or you're 20s and everything's perfect and this is when you have... The truth is people have the best sex when they've been together or married for a while with the same person. Oh, yeah. And they're connected. Sure. Which is wonderful to teach and tell, you know, teenagers and kids in their 20s because then you hear this and you're like oh that's what i should aim for because i don't know about you guys but when i'm 18 19 in my 20s or you're trying to date your aims all you're thinking you're thinking like oh it's gonna suck later let's just do this now and whatever it's like no it's like you you're in a good relationship for a long time same woman same man not tons of novelty you're definitely not your hottest in your early 40s you could be fit and all that stuff, but that's not your...

32:44I tell our young staff that works for us all the time that that was one of the biggest lies that was sold to me. Yeah. I mean, my relationship's 16 years now, and I swear to goodness, at 16 years, everything about it from the sexual point is better today than it was in what they call honeymoon phase. Early on, where it's supposed to peak, there's that old saying, if you put a marble inside the jar every time you had sex in your first year of marriage, and then every year after, yeah, every year that you'll never empty the jar, that's so full of shit. That's such a lie. That's such a lie. The frequency, how much all the things are - Enjoyment, connection.

33:26And it makes sense because you are. If you've grown together, most people that have lasted 10 years or more in a marriage, you've probably grown with that person, got more connected, got to know them, got more comfortable. And all those things lead to a better sex life. I think the only thing that anything the early years have is the novelty thing. And a lot of times the novelty thing never plays out to what you think. It's only exciting because you don't know. Like, oh, I've never slept with this person. And you're excited. And then you have it. And then most of the time it doesn't live up to what you built in your head.

33:58So then if you compare all those exciting, what's it going to be like to what you actually have in this 10-year, 15-year marriage. Well, what we've done effectively, and there's a whole process. and people talk about this all the birth control is part of this process uh the the you know the the the sexification of society has kind of you know also done this but you know we're we're we're led to believe that uh sex is separate or the act of sex is separate from emotional intimacy and relationship when in reality it's a it's a side effect or result of right so sex is a result of or it's supposed to be a result of this intimate relationship.

34:39It's not this separate thing, but we've separated it. So it's like one night stands, novelty, pornography. It's about a hot body. It's about looking young. It's all that stuff. And so it's what we're led to believe. It's not, yeah, there's no real deep connection. Right. And so meanwhile, people are like miserable. And we're like, why am I miserable? I mean, I'm sleeping around. This isn't what I thought it would be. Yeah. It was Adam Lane Smith that talked. I remember one of the greatest hacks that he shared with us. There's actually steps that you can take to even improve that in your even a good relationship.

35:15And I remember after the – it was one of the first conversations we had with him. And I remember applying it in our marriage and going like, holy shit, that's a hack. Because men and women, although we're both involved in the part of us having sex, there's different things that drive – motivators for us, right? And one of the motivators for men that he talked about was when we set some sort of a goal with your partner, it could be a financial goal. It could be building something. It could be business related. It could be improving something, learning something. But setting a goal with your partner and going after it and achieving it, the oxytocin and all the – Oh, vesopressin.

35:53And the vesopressin that happens. Oh, my God. Like what it does for the relationship is unbelievable. it's such a mini hack that i learned from him and sometimes it could be the most simplest thing that we set forth is like hey here's our new goal we're going to try and do this and going after a small goal like that working towards it the sex that that results in is crazy well in the past you guys have heard this before like oh you're is your sex life boring you guys have married a long time let's spice it up and how do they what does spice it up usually mean yeah doing something you know weird or different or bringing another person in the relationship or reality spicing up the sex of your marriage is probably really about working on your relationship that's exactly what it is that's not about the new trick that's my point of bringing that up is that there's there's hacks to growing and building the relationship that results in the the better relationship and you're right normally uh the you know and that's why that's the funny part because it's like most things that end relationships i've always found like get us even closer in our sex way better like like building a house together oh you know what i'm saying or like oh that's exactly right a business that's because you're accomplishing a goal together yeah and it's it's been like it's crazy because we kind of laugh about it because everybody's like oh my god yours are still married you know i'm like it's actually been better than it's ever been it's it's nuts you know it's like it's just because we're on the same page and i'm just i got your back you got my back you come in here you do this And so it's just very much of like I know a lot about her as a person, a partner.

37:25I count on her. I don't know. It's a different level, dude. That's like goals, achieve another level. I mean, Katrina and I were just talking about this, so it's interesting you went this direction because we just wrapped up Q4. And Q4 for our household, Katrina and I, is probably the most stressful time business-wise because there's a lot that comes to the business ahead at that time, both on her side of the business and our side of the business. And the two of us have to figure this out. And there's a lot of that going on behind the scenes. And it's an incredibly, what someone else would say, stressful time.

38:02But we both have the same goal in mind because we're working the same business, right? And it results in the most amazing, epic sex and time with each other because it bonds because of that. because we're like, there's a for sure desired outcome that we are both aiming for and going after. And yes, there might be some stressful moments during that time, but ultimately it leads to this incredible bonding afterwards or when we finally go, oh, baby, brother. We did it. We did that together. It's so cool. And it's just not, like, nobody taught me that. I learned that in my 40s listening and talking to Adam Lane Smith.

38:39Like, I wish that was something that I learned in my teens and 20s, because that's something you could have been fostering in relationships. Do you see how important is it for young couples to have older couples or people around them as mentors? Oh, yeah. Because nobody learned. And, yes, you go through seasons. Like, you have little kids. You're obviously not going to have tons of sex early on when they're little. There's stressful times. All that stuff. I get it. But, you know, you're married for years, decades, right? But having older couples where you could talk with them and having – for men, it's so important for men to have a mentor that's older.

39:09Imagine having an older guy that's like your buddy or family member. He's like, hey, this is what it's actually like, and this is what's actually valuable, and I know this is what media tells you. That's not true, dude. I think it would have been so helpful. Oh, my God. Listen, if you're listening right now and you're in a young marriage, you're in your 20s, and you just recently, or it doesn't matter what age you are, but you've been recently married in the last five years, and you haven't done this, literally set a goal. Set a small goal with your partner. It could be financial. It could be house-related.

39:38It could be physical. It could be anything. But it's something that you both agree upon that you're going to work towards. Set it reasonable, right? Set something that you guys should be able to accomplish. And watch what happens. Watch what happens just when you both agree on a goal that you're going to go do and you're going to build towards. So it takes a little bit of time to do that. And watch what it does for the relationship. It could be reading. It could be financial. It could be all these things. It's such a hack that nobody told me until way later in my life. Totally, totally. All right, I want to talk about exercise here for a second.

40:07because it really dawned on me the other day. So my wife came to me and she's like, hey, I want you to help me to be able to perform an overhead squat. I need to work on my shoulder mobility. And I don't know where this came from. It might have been that she was talking with some friends about how she used to do silks and how mobile she was and she doesn't have the same mobility. And it made me realize that we've taken a whole category of exercises that used to be popular and we've made them super unpopular because we've scared people by saying that they're dangerous. And these are all the behind-the-neck exercises.

40:41Yeah. And what's happened, behind-the-neck exercises, yes, they're difficult. Okay, behind-the-neck pull-downs, behind-the-neck presses, stuff like that. They are difficult, but we've taken them out. So people are doing all the strength training. They're doing those traditional exercises, and they're losing that ability or not working on that mobility, which is very important. This is the antidote, though, to a lot of that everyday positioning stress. you know in that forward position yeah it's like why aren't we strengthening and emboldening that well dude this came to me because i was uh i don't remember where i was i was on facebook maybe and there were reels were popping up and they were it was an old school bodybuilding uh like montage and the range of motion those guys had with their flies yeah with their and all of them did behind the neck exercises in the in the 70s and 80s uh and even the 90s early 90s mid 90s everybody every bodybuilder did behind the neck pull downs and behind the neck presses they didn't get fancy just they at least did those exercises staples yeah and their range of motion was incredible they had great and i'm like oh my god nobody does these anymore and they they just don't have the ability you take somebody who works out all the time who never does those they can't do it yeah we i mean it again this is like our certifications where it just became the standardized based upon people's normal habits and what you have to actually work through to get good positioning and good posture first.

42:06They just want to skip right past that. And so I just think overall, we've done a disservice with that kind of stuff. Well, there's also something else that was going on in the 80s that wasn't going on in the 90s plus. What? Computers and phones. Yeah, that accelerated that bad position. I mean, in young people. so if young people like even young people can't behind the neck press they can't normal press that's what i'm saying right and so you you take a you know in the 80s and before that wasn't a thing you didn't sit at a at a computer all day you didn't sit on a phone all day and like so like if you're a fitness person you worked out and you did movements like that's pretty normal to be able to pull but it's so not normal anymore to be even to pull your shoulder blades back and and repress with your arms in line with your ear or certainly pull a bar down behind your head like that like you just a lot of it too is just machines machines got really popular and everybody just stopped doing those exercises and then everybody started calling them dangerous in fact if we do a post it still happens today dude i saw one recently i think it was even one of our friends and i was just like ah you know like some exercise they'd eliminate you know from uh the list and it was behind the neck pull downs.

43:24Yeah. I'm like, nah. No, you get the humorous to move with the scapula and that retracted position. Yeah, you need to have mobility. So if you've never done it, go real light and practice and go slow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'll get better at it. And I'll tell you what, man, I get some of the, from a muscle building perspective, I get crazy pumps. Well, the benefits of it is, this is, I mean, and I remember when I went on the mobility kick, so interesting that she's going this direction because I saw huge benefits from getting to the place where I could, I don't know if you guys remember, if you go far enough back on my Instagram, you can see me doing overhead squats and working towards it, right?

43:56And I had to start really, really light. You know what I'm saying? I could obviously do a lot. That broomstick. Yeah, really, really light to start to do it. But what's so cool is that once you gain that connection again and you get it back, to maintain it is way easier. You just touch it here and there. I mean, that was my big thing when I worked on the squat, the ankle mobility and the hip mobility. Now all you got to do is just squat deep and just – There's no friction to get there. Yeah. The work to get there felt like a lot of work. It definitely felt like a lot of work because I had gone so far of not doing that.

44:29But once I gained it, that's what's so great about doing movements like that is you don't have to do all these crazy priming movements and corrective work if you just keep certain movements in your repertoire. And if you keep those movements in there, you won't lose that ability. Otherwise, the body prunes it and says there's never going to be a reason for us to pull it in the back. I did behind-the-neck pull-downs and presses as a kid because I would follow Arnold and all those guys. And then I remember getting my certification. They're dangerous. Don't do it. I stopped doing them for a long time.

45:01Then I saw Mariusz Pusinowski. Remember him? World's strongest man, but he looked like a bodybuilder. So he wasn't even a giant. He was like one of the more ripped guys or whatever. And I saw him doing a workout, and he did an Olympic exercise, which Olympic lifters will do this, where they place the bar on their traps like they're going to squat, and they press it and they bring it back down on their traps. I love that. And I saw him doing it and I was like, whoa. And I'm like, you know what? We did those in football actually. Maybe I should practice this. And I did and it took me a while. Couldn't even do the bar because I couldn't get my shoulders back.

45:29And then I was able to and I got great development. I got great hypertrophy from doing that exercise. Anyway, I just saw this. I just read this article by this researcher who he was trying to tackle have you guys have heard the phrase sitting is as bad for you as smoking? so he went in and he went in and actually analyzed it and broke it down and what he said was it's not sitting it's sitting without brakes that's the problem so he studied um indigenous people people uh you know tribes were people uh do they sit do they still sit do they sit down a lot do they rest a lot and in fact they do but here's what they do every 10 to 15 minutes they get up yeah Yeah.

46:11So he said, if you sit a lot, you'll erase the negative effects if you just every 15 minutes stand up and move around a little bit and then sit back down. Just pop up for five seconds, ten seconds, sit back down. Well, I mean, that adds up. It does. But it also just moves the body instead of just being stationary. Well, yeah. I mean, just that's – if every 15 minutes you made the – shoot, I would make the argument if every person that sits all day long just made the effort to get up every 15 minutes and move a little bit. It would be huge. It would be huge. Maybe think of that. Yeah, yeah. Think about people at desk.

46:41Imagine if every 15 to 20 minutes you just stood up. I used to get happy. My client would just every hour do a couple band pull-up parts or stand up or do a couple air squats. Every 15 minutes would be a massive accomplishment. All you'd have to do is stand up and sit back down. That's it. Just stand up, sit back down. I remember that reminds me of that study. It was in Iowa. The physical education there got high honors because of the fact of they just implemented the entire school. every class you'd have to get up every 50 their grades got better they got way better way better performance across the board uh in their attitude their mood everything they start adding bands and stuff in but initially it was just about getting up from sitting too long i know yeah i know my son's school is really good about they don't they don't make it like that as much as they do they just they have like this whole i want to say there's like seven or eight i mean there's like seven or eight like station things they do all day long and they're always even even at this age okay so he's he's in kindergarten like uh each day is a different elective uh you know pe or science or i forget like well each one of them are but and they go to different classrooms so they're they're also like teaching moving around moving around they're always it's never like just sitting at a desk in the same classroom like there's like seven different things they do throughout the day and they're constantly going somewhere, moving somewhere and activity.

48:05They're really, really good about that. That's so good. You're doing the cream soda like me. It is so... Cream soda, root beer, and then what's the new one that they just did? Shirley Temple. I like the Shirley Temple too. My kids really like those. Oh yeah, you bring them to the boy. They already do regular ones. They do them every time I go to a restaurant and they're trying to order a drink. They're like Shirley Temple. So you brought them home Yeah, I was a little nervous because, you know, it's like it's not as high sugar or not even close. But they both have great taste. So I was stoked.

48:39I was like, this is a good option for them. It trips me out because I'm looking at it right now. So I have the cream soda olipop for people watching on camera. 50 calories. It's got how many grams of sugar? Three. Yeah, three. Three grams of sugar in the whole thing. It's not no artificial sweeteners in here either. So that my taste, my thing about it tastes like a soda. My thing that I'm excited to have them back is we worked with them years ago, and we're back again. And I've always had them in my house. So whenever I'm trying to cut back on my Diet Coke drinking habit that I know is not good for me, this is like my go-to.

49:18And so it's nice that we have them back here because it's like if I have a habit that I would like to kick or get rid of, it's my Diet Coke drinking. and Olipop has been able to serve as like that segue for me to cut back or get rid of that. And so it's good to have him back. Speaking of which, how's your training and everything going, dude? I'm doing pretty good. I'd say – You change so fast, it's hilarious. I think it's a curse for you. It is. It's a blessing and a curse. Because you lose motivation. Well – Because you're like, I'm good. I mean, I think that's a good thing. I think I've got a pretty healthy relationship with my body image, which took me a long time to get to that.

49:55So that part is a good thing. But it's the thing, and maybe you've helped me look at it differently because the same thing that is my strength is my weakness. Like, it comes and goes fast. You just adapt so fast. Yeah, I adapt really quick, right? And so I've learned to look at that as the positive side. The frustrating side is, like, I easily can lose muscle. Like, I have to be stimulating. I've got to be hitting protein high. And, yes, yes, my body puts muscle back on pretty quick. It remembers what it had. but if I fall if I just eat regularly and I don't like I've always talked about this if you've listened long enough like I definitely way under eat protein and don't get enough calories and if I don't stimulate that muscle it will go it goes quick you know I'm not like some people like this guy over here who just like keeps muscle on his body all the time here around doesn't matter he just gets he gets a little husky he has some dream fluffy period I would say you know maybe the grass is always green on our side but i would so i'd rather have that i get i get skinny fat yeah you get like like no fat on your waist like immediately i do it looks it looks terrible it looks way worse so yeah waste i like your waist training you guys would have laughed at me though over the weekend i was like i don't know if you guys ever even do it you probably don't but like you you look at something like it's like a household chore thing outside i'm like i'm gonna turn this into a really fucking hard workout on purpose.

51:23You know? Like, so I had this sinkhole. Not quite that level, but I probably went to something stupid like that. No, I was just in a mood. I was just like, I want to beat the crap out of myself, you know? Wow. Okay, maybe it's just me. I mean, I was going to align someone with you, but not that far. Because I do appreciate the, like. Well, just like back-breaking work. I just was craving it because it's a nice day out. I don't know. There's something about it. It was just calling me. And so I have this like big sinkhole in my backyard. And I was I had already filled it before I brought up on the show.

52:00Like I have this like huge pile from the previous owners that didn't they just left me. They gifted me this like huge amount of like rubble of like cement rubble, you know, from the foundation and everything. And I haven't like I've been slowly chipping away at getting rid of it. uh but i i just decided hey i'm gonna put this in the sinkhole you know and then try and cover and get so nobody you know falls in there and i i didn't have my wheelbarrow and this is where i was like ah screw it i'm just gonna carry it all the way down so it was pretty far dude it's like at the very top of this hill putting buckets no i just carried like carried it like hundreds of pounds of the cement was yelling and throwing it in and then like i found this one so it used to be like some foundation for like a little these have goats and these have like this like foundation for like this little goat house thing and it was like this huge pylon that was like probably it was a couple hundred pounds easy uh and i just got it out unearthed it and it started rolling down the hill i was like no and i tried to stop it it kept going had to let it go So it would like smash my fence down at the bottom.

53:13And I was like, ah, there's no way I'm going to be able to push this back up. And then I just laughed about it and I kind of was come back. I was like, you know what? No, screw that. And I literally just took it and was pushing it up this hill for like at least 40 yards or so. Just pushing and grinding. And every push I had to like put every ounce of like when you do a really heavy deadlift, it was like, yeah. and then I got it like up like another couple inches and then oh my god I did that for me two hours and then I was just done I was so tired the whole weekend after that what was I thinking I don't know that's the most Justin thing you could do I wish you guys would have saw it because it was like so ridiculous I see a nice day I don't think I'm going to do some hard labor I'm going to sit down outside I don't know.

54:06So I can relate to that. Like there's times where it's like, it's a nice day. And I have, let's say maybe I'm not going to try. I know I'm not going to train. I'm like, you know what? I should go do something physical and move. But I'm not that inspired. Wow. You know, while you were doing that, I was doing something really gay. Whoa, whoa. What's the? I haven't felt this way since I was sitting. I'm so serious. pictures of my back muscles to sal when we first met right that was that was the last time i did close i did something i saw that right and i remember like after that was like back and forth him and i like when we were first like talking some of that i'm like i'm sending this dude like so i'm like so i haven't had that even know hey i haven't had that feeling until this weekend i did something and i went like yeah after i sent me a picture hey after yeah after i did i was like yeah that might have been a little gay what'd you do so doug and i have been talking right okay so doug's like how do i get pulled this take a sip so doug and i've been talking you know he's his his new place and everything right so we talk about remodeling and stuff like that and so i sent doug pictures of my laundry room and i'm like i'm like i'm taking it from all these different angles like oh it's you check it out doug and i'm like and i send it over to him and after i send and I'm like looking at the conversation.

55:26I'm like, I'm seeing another man in my laundry room. I'm like, that has to be up there. What do you think of his color power? Yeah, I'm like, I got to tell Justin. I got to tell Justin this next time I see him and ask him, is this his gaze when I was sitting in Sal pictures of myself with no shirt on? I don't know which one. It's like, have you ever seen those videos where like in the distance you hear this like, grrrr? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, we were in conversation and he was talking about moving his laundry room. Oh, I totally did mine, bro. It looks so good. In fact, we just finished it.

55:56And I'm in it with him, and I'm sending all the pictures. And then after I send it, I think, yeah. You love that, though, bro. You love that stuff. You love it. In fact, my wife, when she does something, because she's really good at interior design. She does a phenomenal job. Sometimes she'll be done. And she knows that I appreciate it. But she knows Adam appreciates that stuff a lot. So I swear to God, she'll tell me. She'll be like, hey, can you take a picture and send it to Adam? I'm like, no. and send a picture to another man to appreciate what you're doing. They have like a secret. Everybody can trust that.

56:28My wife wants you to see the dining table. Actually, I swear to God, 100%. She's like, bro, can you show this? Can you show that? I don't know. Take a picture and say, I'm like, no. I do, I do. I'm not going to do that. I do appreciate that stuff. That's the feminine side of me for sure. I like that. Yeah, man, there was a while there where you couldn't say that something was gay. Now you can say that. I'm bringing it back. That was part of me telling that story. It's just fun. It means fun. Listen, that's listening. We're 90s. I mean, I would like all my gay listeners to answer which one was more gay.

56:53Me sending pictures to Sal. Yeah. Me sending pictures to Sal. Let us know. Yeah, yeah. Let us know. Or sending Doug my laundry room. We need to break this down. Because I had that feeling afterwards. I was like, yeah, that probably is a little bit on that side, I feel like. It didn't cross my mind. Yeah. Lots of shirtless. Then why'd you send me a shirtless pic back? I'm used to this. I was trying to keep that quiet. He took a picture of his laundry room, but he's in the background. He's shirtless. Yeah, yeah. I sent him my laundry room just a laundry room he sent me a picture with his shirt off in his laundry room I was like wait a second here that's not what I was trying to send you guys no no it's a picture of his laundry room but the shadow shows him

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58:09Go to drinklemente.com forward slash mind pump. On that link, you'll get a free sample pack of the most popular drink mixed flavors with any purchase. Back to the show. Our first caller is James from Texas. James, what's happening? How you doing, James? Hey, guys. Thanks for having me back on. Again, the obligatory. I appreciate everything you guys are doing. You guys are changing and disrupting the market and physical fitness and health all over. It's spreading like wildfire. I appreciate everything you guys are doing. Thanks, man. How can we help you? I'm going to go ahead and just read my email.

58:39Keep it easy. I had an opportunity to speak with you about a year ago. At that time, I was doing a lot of traveling. and attempting to use anabolic doing the home version when I was at hotels and doing the gym version when I was home. Since then, my travels significantly decreased, which actually allowed me to complete anabolic at the gym program, and I just got great results out of it. Started a second time, got about three quarters of the way through it, and started noticing imbalances and some tweaks. Kind of happens when you get to my age. So I switched over to performance to address those issues.

59:15It worked great. I'm not having any issues. It really, really helped me out quite a bit. Throughout the process, my strength continued to increase. My body fat dropped 10 % in that total time between those programs. And that was according to that in body scan. I know how accurate those are or not, but consecutively lost body fat. Lately, I've been trying to blend elements of like anabolic and performance to create what I've kind of called the MAPS 15 plus style routine. I really enjoy the big lifts. So each day I perform like one lift, like a deadlift or a squat, and then follow up with a couple of accessory moves.

59:51If I do pull-ups, maybe I'll do the dumbbell pullovers or tricep cable pushdowns. So my concern comes into the sense of these sessions are taking me about an hour. I'm taking lots of breaks, lots of rests. So I'm worried, and time's not an issue. I got plenty of time in the morning. but I'm wondering, am I doing too much volume? Is it too much stress? The next day I feel a little sore but I'm not significantly aching or there's no problems with it. So I'm wondering if you have any suggestions on program recommendations or something you have that would allow me to continue to prioritize those big lifts, build strength, gradually continue to reduce the fat that I have on me.

1:00:31As I turn 55 in October, I just want to be the best version of myself mentally and physically. Yeah, thanks for calling in, Joey. You're doing really good, man. How long have you been strength training consistently total? So I was former military. so that's not really strength training what I did back then and then I did CrossFit for a while so I got away from that so I would probably say maybe good three three and a half four years I've been since I've been listening to you guys actually focused on the strength okay yeah I asked that question because sometimes people will create their own programs like you did and if I'm talking to somebody who's been strength training for 15 years consistently you know that's usually okay If I'm talking to someone who's ex-military CrossFit, probably not a good idea to create your own program because you're going to move in a direction.

1:01:23Oftentimes, that's not the right direction or not optimal. Now, the other side is this. If you feel good, you're getting good sleep, your joints feel good, you're progressing, then it's probably okay. An hour a day, typically, I would say is too much, but it depends on the intensity and the person. It sounds like you've got long rest periods. Yeah, so I wouldn't be too worried about it. Now, if you want to follow one of our programs and see how you feel, you'll know within three or four weeks if it's better. And how you'll know is you just feel better and you're stronger. And so if you like working out every day, we have a lot of MAPS 15 programs now that you can try.

1:02:05And like I said, two, three weeks you would know. In two or three weeks you're like, man, I don't see a difference. I like what I was doing before go for it if in two or three weeks you're like uh you know what I feel better I think I'm stronger uh then then go with our with our programs and then take it from there and I can send you one of them yeah and that's I have 15 and then when 15 performance came out I have that my wife uses uh the 15 I got her the performance to try a little something else I saw those other ones that were coming out and I'm like okay out of those new ones that you just release what would be better for that kind of desire is it i don't know which one would i should gravitate to or give a shot well you have 15 performance i like that one to jump in here and there strong or power lift yeah 15 stronger power lift would be great for you so i could send you one of those and like you'll know in three weeks uh james in three weeks you'll know like okay i was doing too much because you'll you'll just feel better and stronger uh but if it's no difference and you were like, you know, you like doing what you're doing before, you can go back to it.

1:03:08You're at this really interesting stage right now where you've gotten incredible results. It sounds like you're really consistent. The routine that you put together is not bad. I mean, doing a big lift, some accessory movements. To Sal's point, I think following something that we've written is probably going to be more optimal if you're seeking change. Yeah. But, in all honesty, there's a lot of times where I go work out and I do things and is it the most optimal thing I could do to reduce body fat or to build that much? Or is it just something I feel like doing today and I like doing it? And so, you know, when I'm coaching somebody that's reached kind of where you're at right now, you toggle back and forth with that.

1:03:50Sometimes I do things that I know this isn't the perfect routine for me to get the closest to my body fat percentage goal. It's just, you know what, I just feel like doing windmills today because I haven't done it and I want to throw them in there. But yet my foundation, what I like about what you've done, is you value and you understand the value of these big gross motor movements. And so that's the foundation of your program. And honestly, as long as you keep that and you stick with that, that's going to keep you. You seem to have a good mentality. I like what Adam's saying. You already went to performance because you felt like you were feeling a little imbalanced.

1:04:23But again, on the other side of that, right, is workout programming. There's a general idea. But then there's a lot of detail that goes into it that a lot of people just don't understand. So you've got a general idea, gross motor movement, accessory movement, but how they line up actually makes a difference. What follows what, what is before the other, and then movement patterns and how that works. And then, you know, you have micro cycles, meso cycles. And so I'm making it sound whatever, but. No, I understand. All of that makes a big difference. And you don't know what you don't know. That's why I asked you what your exercise history was.

1:04:55Like, you know, if I was talking to a 55-year-old guy who's been strength training for 15 years, 20 years, traditional. He's like, hey, I know my body. I've been training. It's like, okay, I think we're okay. Someone like you, I'm going to say, look, try what we have. If it works better for you, then you know that this is better for you. But what Adam thinks is also true, man. Like doing it for the sake of doing it because you enjoy it, that's great, man. There's value there. When I came out of the performance section, I hear my friend over here, Justin, always talk about those Turkish get-ups.

1:05:26So I really got after them for probably about two months and just fell in love with that as well. So it was something completely odd and different and trying to get that. I couldn't ever get the 106 kettlebell above my head, but the 88s, at least I could get one. Wow. Hey, that's impressive. Wow, dude. That's impressive. That's really good. Yeah. Marked that one off my list at over 50. Yeah. See, that's awesome. And maybe that's not the fastest path to you to get 2 % body fat down, but what a great accomplishment. all kinds and i love a movement like turkish get up because of all the benefits of it mobility wise strength wise stability wise so that's that's that's the point i'm making right now and so i love this idea of you've got this another way i might look at if i use we all these 15 programs that we've written i think you could go through each one of them following the way they are and then i would include every once in a while like mobility sessions and mobility movements if i got more time so you know what you've learned from going through performance the value you've probably heard us talk about unilateral stuff, rotational stuff.

1:06:27And so what I think I would do is I would take our programming and just be running these different massive teams. And then I'd be sprinkling in my mobility stuff. Maybe every once in a while, I'm adding a Turkish getup that I'm trying to challenge. Kind of like what you're doing, but using the blueprints that we've kind of laid out as the foundation of the bulk. And I think you'll get what you're trying to accomplish, which is the best version of you at 55. Feeling good, moving good, stronger, and you'll probably continue to lean out and get in better shape while And I think you have a good attitude, James, just by the way you were communicating how you switch programs and what you're looking for.

1:07:00I think you have good judgment. I don't think you're chasing something so hard that you're going to sacrifice. So that's, so I think you're making, you're having good judgment. So just experiment. And like I said, you'll know, you'll literally know in two or three weeks, you'll know, right. You'll know right away. You'll be like, okay, this is it. Or you'll be like, actually it's not making a difference. You don't have a, you don't have 15 strong yet. Do you? I don't have strong or power lift. I just have the regular and performance. Let's send them strong. Matt Strong will be cool A little bit more variety We'll send that over to you I appreciate it Truth be told I am a coach for one of the big box gyms So I've Changed a lot of the programming That they were doing Slowly influenced it Because some of the stuff they were doing Were very Orange theory-ish Now I've got them more and more from the ground up, switching it to the training with little bursts, you know, 10, 15 minutes of cardio versus the 30 and 40 minutes.

1:08:01James, I wish you shared that earlier. So you train people? Yes. Oh, well, that makes me, I don't, let me rephrase it. I don't do personal training. I'm doing a class just because of my time with my real job. I do it. Cause I, it's, I love it. I have a passion for, I love seeing people achieve new things that I've achieved through my, my, life so I'm trying to pass that down everything you give me I'm trusting me I'm preaching it to the choir out there okay well that makes a difference you got a little metacognition going on you're actually thinking of programming for other people which helps yourself too so that's good yeah yeah cool very cool dude right on James hey thanks guys keep doing the good work thank you man Godspeed you got it yeah there's he has the right attitude so I like what you said Adam because at the end of the day it's like you enjoy it you're having fun with it that's the most important thing you're not hurting yourself got a good attitude yeah if his attitude was like i gotta get as big as possible you know right and that you're like okay well let's get you some programming so you don't move in a direction that's going to cause problems but he's got a good attitude and you know for people listening uh good strength training program of course you know your diet's good everything else is good you'll know within a few weeks i mean it's not like you got to you know do it forever to figure within a few weeks you'll feel the difference you'll see like oh i feel good i don't i'm not hurting i'm stronger my energy is good um and you know you're kind of moving in the right direction yeah i mean he seems really healthy and really mentally physically all the things and so when my client starts to reach this point uh you know we we're not always like the next body fat percentage goal or the next pr goal part of this is now like hey let's just maintain this for the rest of our life and what that looks like a lot of times isn't always doing the most optimal workout to get me the most results i don't train that way i get on kicks when i'm trying to make movements in certain directions whether that be strength or performance or body fat percentage and then maybe my brain's turning a little bit like okay these are the most optimal things and i'm kind of paying attention to volume but for the most part it doesn't look like that for the most part it's like take care of the big rocks yeah stay interested and consistent yeah and you know what i feel like doing this thing today and and i think as long as you're taking care of the big rocks you're doing the things that are going to keep the achy joints away and stuff like that and good mobility uh you You don't always have to be moving in the most optimal way to get you the fastest place to 10 % buyer.

1:10:19No, in fact, that's not a good idea to always stay in there. No, that's right. And so he's at that place where if he was my client, I'd be really challenging, where are you at right now? Because my answer is different. If you come back to me and you're like, hey, I'm doing this programming and my body fat is changing and I'm trying to get down 5%. Different answer. Now we're going to dial it in. Right, that's right. Different answer and we can tweak some things. But it's like, I mean, you're in a good place to play around with the different exercises. of those. Our next caller is Kiara from California.

1:10:44Hi, Kiara. Hi. Hello. How are you? Good. How are you? We're good. How can we help you? I just want to say thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I found your podcast a few years ago through my boyfriend, now husband, and it's been super helpful in my fitness journey. But I'll go ahead and get to my question if that works. Sure. So my question is how to create a healthy, sustainable balance between nutrition and fitness after a few years of counting macros, completing multiple cuts, including completing 75 parts twice and cutting for my wedding, and finding a balanced workout schedule after currently working out about six to seven days a week.

1:11:21I want to be able to do less but see just as successful results. A little bit more about myself as I grew up playing sports most of my life. In college, I started going to the gym and did strength training workouts I would find online and continue doing cardio. I started going to HIIT training classes in 2020. I did my first round of 75 hard September of 2022. At this time, I worked with a nutritionist and it was my first time learning about macros and counting macros. I changed my diet focused on whole foods, protein, I cut out processed foods and sugar and saw the most change ever I had in my body.

1:11:54I got down to about 6 % body fat, but mentally it was really hard for me getting back to maintenance. Following this, I stopped the HIIT classes and started primarily strength training with the addition of Pilates about two to three times a month. Following the first 75 hard, I did a reverse diet slash bulk and did another cut that summer. The second cut was more balanced because I wasn't following the strict 75 hard rules. I then achieved maintenance and did another round of 75 hard the summer of 2024. Following this, I believe I stayed in a cut for too long as my calories were at about 1700 for around five months.

1:12:28In order to prep for my wedding, I then did a reverse diet up to 2 ,100 calories and cut back down to 1 ,600 with specific macros at carbs of 135, fat of 55, and protein at 140. I went as low as 1 ,500 calories, but my body was not responding well, so then I went back up to 1 ,600. Fast forward, I got married in October of 2025 and felt very good in my body. I was fairly lean and at one of my lowest weights. However, I know this physique is not sustainable long-term. As a side note, I had my labs checked multiple points throughout last year and essentially throughout my cut, my thyroid was abnormal.

1:13:02I had my numbers rechecked this last December 2025 after being more relaxed in my diet, after honeymooning and the holidays, and surprise, surprise, my numbers were back to baseline. Looking back, I was likely putting my body under too much stress with how I was training and eating. Now I'm trying to find a balance between counting macros versus eating intuitively, working out hard but not overtraining. I work as a PA and cardiac surgery and I enjoy being active. I usually get 10 to 12k steps a day. I currently strength train about five to six times a week at a group training class and will do Pilates three to four times a month.

1:13:35I have my current macros at 1800 calories, 150 carbs, 65 fat, 155 of protein. I've done two hierarchs competitions and two half marathons and enjoy having something to train for but I'm not sure I'll continue to do these competitions. My husband and I hope to start trying for kids soon and I want to model a healthy relationship with food one where I don't feel the need to measure everything and to stay on track I love feeling lean and strong and I'm looking for advice on how to maintain that physique in a more flexible sustainable way than I've done in the past yeah Kiara thank you so much for calling in yeah um how would you give me like a short sentence on how you would describe your relationship to your body oh that's hard um i think it's something i like care a lot about and i i enjoy working out more so too for like the mental aspect um where it's just kind of like my hour of the day where i like go there and i don't have to think about anything and it kind of just gets me ready for the day um but i enjoy i would say i enjoy looking like a certain way and like feeling good about my body yeah um yeah how would you how would you describe the relationship with it though I think it's a positive relationship Like I usually talk good about myself I don't feel like I have negative feelings Unless I If I get to a certain point where I'm not like a certain weight that I want Then I might be a little bit more negative I'd say it's an abusive relationship Yeah would you mind Can I give you some like some just brevity Sure Okay so I What you're saying I hear the words you're saying But I'm seeing the way you're treating yourself with fitness and it's not reflecting the word the words you're saying don't match with how you're treating yourself okay yeah so your fitness looks like this and correct me if i'm wrong i'm on or i'm off i'm all in or i'm not doing it i'm going crazy or i'm going off um i don't necessarily say that i think i do respond really well to like discipline like 75 hard is almost easy for me because i like if i'm like given like rules or something i can like do it really well but also like again I do enjoy like staying active and working out but then sometimes I do think I'm just too strict yeah do you you said at the end you want a healthy relationship with this yes so what do you mean you want that and why don't you have it now um that's a good question I think I'm trying to learn what it looks like where if I feel good working out six to seven days a week or like if that's what I enjoy but I think I need to learn how to like just do a walk instead of maybe going to the gym um and just like being okay with that and I think sometimes because I'm so used to counting macros if I like try to intuitively eat it's either I don't I don't get enough food or like don't get enough protein or I just kind of don't have my hunger cues because I'm so used to eating.

1:16:39Like, oh, these are my macros. This is what I'm eating today. Do you want a less stressful relationship with all of this? I would love that. So your thermometer is way off, first of all, okay? Your thermometer on what you think feels good and right is way off. Okay. You're way undercalorie. You move like crazy. You've got a stressful job. You're attracted to things that are the opposite of what you should be doing for yourself. I'm just going to say it bluntly Sal's going to be soft and he's going to do all that stuff I'm going to tell you directly your relationship why I said it's abusive is because you think you're being loving to yourself and you're doing the opposite that you're not taking care the low calorie the crazy amount of activity the attraction to high intensity working out hard is not a good thing your fat is low your calories are low your activities that you're choosing are wrong it's and so and if you think that's making you feel good i'm telling you that your thermometer is off that's like that that's these aren't good things and so we have to reset that thermometer we can focus on the actions and i can tell you what to do but if we don't address what's causing the actions it's never going to change okay and what's causing the actions uh is is uh we need to we need to be honest about and so So you need to be able to say, okay, why do I beat myself up?

1:18:05Why do I do 75 hard to get into shape? Or why do I go five or six days a week? By the way, that feels, can I just tell you something? Yeah. When there's something about yourself that you don't like, it does feel good to beat yourself up. It actually feels cathartic. So what feels cathartic are the workouts that make you want to, like, pass out or really restricting yourself because it feels like control. So that's what tends to happen. So there's something deeper here that, look, I tell you this, we can address this and we can fix this with coaching, but you have to erase this false dichotomy.

1:18:43Here's what you may be thinking. Get the body I want, but then it's stressful and controlled and everything is measured. Or I don't get the body I want. In fact, I go way off, but now I'm not as stressed out and I don't have to worry about those things. But that's actually a false, that's not true. That's not real. The body you want is going to come from the right route, which is actually caring for yourself in the right way. But it's going to take some time to get there because this relationship is going on for a long time, probably since you were playing sports. Probably since you were an athlete.

1:19:21How does what I'm saying sound to you? no that makes sense and i don't disagree with that i think the part where you're saying is i like when i i feel like the only way i've been able to achieve the body that i want is like these like super strict and restrictive regimens and i want to be able to shift from that and still achieve a body i'm proud of but i just like i think that's what i'm trying to navigate is like Like what's the plan moving forward where I can like stop being so restrictive and like stop working out six to seven days a week. But I just don't know what that looks like for me because I haven't done that yet.

1:19:59Yeah. I think that's something that needs to be painted for you. A vision of what that looks like. A totally different plan. And I think, you know, a coach will really be able to reiterate that and paint that vision for you. I think this is a common thing with a lot of, especially people that got introduced into weight training and have done it through athletic means. A lot of it is very intense focused. It's, you know, that's the only way you're going to achieve your objective, which I had to literally reverse my way out of that and find a different way to do it going for longevity. So there is another way to do it.

1:20:36And it actually is more effective, the irony of it. So, you know, really talking to somebody and like getting that all, all that information and data to absorb, I think will really help. I want to go back to the thermometer thing that I said to you. So we, cause this is always, I've trained lots of clients in this situation and the hardest part to communicate is I'm telling you all the right things, but you feel something different. And it's really hard for you to connect with me and go, I don't give a shit what he's saying after that workout. I feel fucking good. Because you do. Because you get a cortisol dump and it feels really good.

1:21:15And so it's really tough to hear, listen to me and me going like, no, that's not. That's not right. That's not a good feeling. And you're going like, no, I'm pretty sure that feels really good. I know it feels good. So it's hard for you to listen to the advice of, oh, I want you to do this. I want you to do that, which is against what you feel. Yeah. But you first have to accept that, oh, maybe my thermometer is all off and I don't know what healthy and right feels like. this is always the whether we you and i make it or not if you're a client of mine and we're going to make this journey together if we're successful is me being able to get that message through is letting you know that i know how you feel and i know how good it feels and i know i'm telling you the opposite and so you got to just trust me that i've done this enough times that i and i know what i'm doing and this is where having a to justin's point having a coach who you can kind of outsource that too and know that this doesn't feel right this i've i know what good feels like when i'm working out and this feels weird and awkward and i don't like what i'm seeing and you're going to go through all those feelings through this process of resetting your thermometer and and that that is the hardest stage is that kind of awkward stage of the trust and letting go and realizing i have to change my thermometer and then comes all these results then comes the body i want the healthy way we have to accept that part definitely a way to do it and achieve it we could totally get there yeah you're gonna get you can get there this will happen uh and it'll be a remarkable and you'll feel great but i'm gonna i'm gonna ask you a scary question you ready can you let go of the control yes can you can you let someone else do this for you and you just follow yeah i can do that all right i'm gonna have somebody call you because that's what you're going to need okay because this is going to be a process it's going to be it's going to be a before you're going to have to completely let go and ignore your old patterns your old relationship to your old feelings your old it's going to be scary as hell your body's going to love it but your mind is going to have a hard time you're going to rebel you're going to want to go against it it just just outsource it follow it and then after probably about four five six months you'll start to see the light at the end of the tunnel be like oh whoa this is way different and it's It's going to happen.

1:23:28I'm doing way less. I'm eating way more. I feel way better. I feel free. Oh, my God, my body's responding. This doesn't make any sense. I've never gotten in shape doing it this way before. It's always been this crazy struggle. What's happening? And then six months later, you're going to look back and be like, I'm so happy I made that decision. But it's going to take a little while. Your superpower that is going to help you through this whole process is your athletic background. But we just shift it in a different way. so like use that what your coach tells you exactly that's so that that's where like good student what i love about getting an athlete is that if they're coachable if they were one of those athletes that was very coachable and then you can trust and you trust your coach we're gonna we're gonna win we're gonna win and so if you can lean into that that like allow myself to be coached trust that process that it will be your superpower through this this this thing not i'm gonna figure this out or let me go do like not the competitive side towards your workouts but the let me listen and that part will be your superpower through this all right yeah it's gonna be great kira i'll see you because if you work with one of our coaches i'll see you and we'll talk about this a little bit by the way are you close to us in the bay area because it says you're in california you far i'm in um orange county okay so you're kind of far no worries i'll still see you when you're when you're when you're meeting virtually with our coaches and you're gonna you're gonna love this you just gotta let go a little you just gotta let go of the control for a bit yeah okay okay yeah so for now just like wait to talk to the coach they're gonna call you and go through everything they're gonna call you yeah yeah okay so okay and then i guess just to follow up because currently my workouts they're strength training but it's through like a small group class where there's like four to five people i can guarantee you i can guarantee you the coach is gonna tell you something yeah okay do you have access do you have access to a regular gym or um i don't currently because i do the classes but i can get access.

1:25:20That's fine. Good, good. We're going to, we're going to shake all that out. This is going to be awesome. Yeah. You're going to love this. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you. I really appreciate it. You got it, Kara. Thanks for calling in. Okay. Thank you. You know, what's, uh, what's both? Does she do it? What? Does she do it? What's come on over under here? Oh, yeah, she will. Yeah. If you think so, I think so. I think she's going to work with a coach. I think our coach is going to have a hell of a time. working with her. But I think it's going to be okay because we've got really good coaches who know how to work around this.

1:25:51But look, here's the thing. This is what's really challenging. We get on a call and we talk to somebody for 20 minutes. This is not how I would coach somebody like this. This is a long process. I'm not that much of an asshole. No. I'm not that much of an asshole. Session one. Yeah, but hold on. I'm going to defend you, Adam. Well, I have to be. Because I tried to get her there and she immediately put up a wall. oh I love it it's great it's like no you don't that's why I let you go first I let you go first and some people come in welcoming and go I'm like yeah she immediately went up with defenses and I get that no I love it I love what I do well why are you calling them why are you telling us you want a different relationship obviously you don't love it but now you feel like you need to defend it because what follows this is I'm going to let go of this terrible relationship this abusive I got to leave this boyfriend that's abusive and I can't leave him I know that's a that's a harsh analogy but it's such a good analogy it's a bit perfect If you ever talk to somebody that's in an abusive relationship.

1:26:45It's so scary. They don't want to leave. And many times they have a hard time even admitting that it's abusive. Once it gets down to it, yeah. Oh, but they're good. It's like, okay, well, I don't know. So anyway, so that's how I coach people normally. But, I mean, that's just where we had to go. But now we've got to coach calling her. And that's why we didn't give her advice here. Because I could have said whatever I wanted. No, this is too much to unpack. It's not going to help her. This is like literally, there's like 10 steps in here. This is not, hey, take some notes. Let me tell you all the things you're going to do.

1:27:14She's going to hate. She hires a coach. Let's start with this layer first. She works with one of our coaches. She's going to hate the next three to six months. She's going to hate it. But she's going to follow it. And then after that, she's going to see the light. I mean, these were. This is where transformation happens. That's right. These were most my clients. And the hardest part is it's so hard when she knows how she feels from those things. Because it does feel good. You go crush an Orange Theory workout, a CrossFit workout, a 75 hard, and that cortisol dump that you get afterwards, that feeling of accomplishment, the energy you feel.

1:27:47You try and tell someone that that's wrong and that doesn't feel good, and they're like, this guy's full of shit. It's like telling somebody who drinks alcohol that their anxiety is worse because of it. Like we were talking about, when I drink, my anxiety goes away. It gets worse later. Trust me, it makes things a lot worse. It's hard to understand, but if she follows, she'll figure it out. She'll see. Our next caller is Chelsea from Oregon. Hi, Chelsea. Hi, Chelsea. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? Good. How are you guys? Good. Thanks for calling in. How can we help you? So, first of all, thank you guys for everything.

1:28:16You know, I've been listening for a long time. So, I'll jump into my question. Here's some background. I'm a 36-year-old female and have been lifting consistently for about six years. I grew up overweight and lost a lot of weight over the years and have been able to keep it off. For the past five years, I've maintained a pretty lean physique and I've always been naturally strong. I work construction, so I'm very active on top of lifting. In January of last year, I injured my knee and had to take a few months off. I lost a noticeable amount of muscle in my legs and since then have been trying to rebuild lower body size and strength.

1:28:54My upper body came back much faster and I started to feel disproportionate. My upper body dominant, I'm more upper body dominant than I'd like to be as a female. I also tend to stay fairly lean without much effort, even eating around 3000 calories. I can sit in the mid teens body fat that made it hard for me mentally to push calories enough and really commit to regaining leg mass. About a month and a half ago, I made the decision to try a very low dose of Anivar, five milligrams a day. I only ran it for two weeks. I gained weight quickly and got very strong very fast, which honestly scared me and especially knowing the risks for women.

1:29:30So I stopped after two weeks since stopping. It's been a few weeks now. I'm still getting stronger, but the weight hasn't come off. My current lifts are roughly overhead press 135 squat, two 55 deadlift, three 15 bench one 55. Yeah. I'm pretty strong. Yeah. My squat alone went up 70 pounds in roughly a month. What? Yeah. Strength wise. So I used to lift a lot heavier, but then I got injured and I lost a lot of strength. Strength wise, I feel great, but my joints are starting to ache. So I'm wondering if my connective tissue isn't hasn't caught up to how fast my strength increased. At this point, I'm unsure of the smartest direction forward.

1:30:16Should I stop pushing load increases for a while and let my joints catch up, actively deload or back off intensity, avoid lifting this heavy altogether given my age and injury history? I'm also struggling with programming I've ran anabolic a few times aesthetic and I just started aesthetic again I've also started muscle mommy performance and symmetry but didn't finish them I just felt like it wasn't enough for me I know everyone a lot of people say that but I and I feel like a lot of your guys programs are kind of like biased for upper body and I'd really like more intentional lower body volume right now and hypertrophy while protecting my joints a bit more context.

1:31:00I don't weigh myself, but I'd guess I'm probably around like 175 right now and maybe at 20 % body fat at 5 '7". I feel a lot fluffier and more uncomfortable than I'm used to. I'm not tracking calories at the moment, but I've tracked off and on for a lot of years. And I'd guess I'm about 22 to 2 ,500 calories right now. Protein is never an issue. I eat a lot of meat. Carbs are solid. Fats I struggle with the most, hitting my fats. Sleep is great, eight to eight and a half hours on average, sometimes more, sometimes less. Right now, my stress is a little bit higher lately, which I know could be contributing to fat retention.

1:31:42I love your thoughts on how to manage rapid strength gains versus joint health, whether I should pause progression or change training focus, and what programming direction you'd suggest for a female lifter rebuilding lower body mass without sacrificing longevity this is gonna be a fun question it is a fun question did you watch uh last year when i did my transformation oh my god yeah you're jack did you watch the transformation journey i did on youtube by a chance um i watched a couple but not all of them so i bring it up because uh i made the mistake that you potentially commit like if you had a lot of strength before and then you're coming back and so which is part of why the strength gains are coming out i kept pushing that and i injured myself twice live on camera because I was feeling good.

1:32:24The weight was moving easy. And it was like, I put up, I what, like 150, 175 pounds on my deadlift in literally a month's time. And I was feeling so good. So I kept doing it. Yeah. It's exciting. Yeah. No, it's exciting. But I, I should know better, you know, and of course I'm, I'm documenting it. So I want to show the greatest muscle gain and progress and like an asshole hurt myself. so uh the my suggestion to you would be to folk to switch the focus uh from i know you want the to build the quads and that's kind of where it's at but i think you you better be careful uh but and you've got plenty of muscle i'm looking at your pictures right now chelsea you're you're the what we would say the the 0.1 percent anomaly of genetics uh when it comes to muscle building which is great uh now strength gains are are great we tell people get stronger all the time because we're not talking to people like you because at your at some point getting stronger the risk to reward isn't worth it so like if you gained 30 pounds on your lifts the difference in the way your body would look uh wouldn't be that big of a difference but the risk would be really high so the question is all right well how do i how do i change how do i gain muscle in the places as I want to without necessarily adding more weight.

1:33:42So it's a more complicated question. And again, this is a fun question to answer. Now, you only used Anivar for two weeks. Other than that, you've been natural this whole time? Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, like you're the 0.1%. Yeah, and so those pictures are from May, and I've always been natural before that. So those pictures were natural. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't need to go on Anivar. I know, I know. Did you compete? Did you compete or no? No, no. Oh, my God. Yeah, you crushed. You could walk in. You can walk in and win a show. Yeah, easy. Okay, so I think the best program for you is symmetry.

1:34:13Symmetry. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, I know. You started it. You didn't finish it. And then here's what you do with the volume, okay? You want to build. By the way, your legs look great. It's just you build so much. You carry so much muscle. Maybe old-time strength, too. So, yeah, so I think symmetry is the program for you. I would only stay in the unilateral phases. and if you want more lower body volume, take some volume off the upper body, add it to the lower body. So if it says three sets for upper body, for an exercise, do one set. When you get to legs, add those two sets. That's all you got to do, swap the volume.

1:34:49Yeah, swap it. And add it to legs. But you got to live in that for a while and it's going to give you the gains you're looking for without the risk. So you're going to see the muscle gains happen because it's unilateral and controlled and it's going to limit how much weight you've got. The load's going to go down. You're going to get the hypertrophy, especially someone like you, without the risk. And you're going to feel good. Your joints are going to feel good. Get hyperphobic. But it's not going to be as fun as loading the barbell and being stronger than every dude. That's not going to be as fun.

1:35:19But if that's what you want, that's what you got to do. Yeah, you got to work towards feeling good overall with your body. Yeah. It's a different mentality. I know, I'm getting older and I'm feeling it. Well, you're the very few people we get to talk to. um are reach reaching or close to their genetic potential of building muscle hypertrophy you're you're there and like sal saying like you might be able to inch out another one to three percent you know i'm saying but to at what to risk what like what you're gonna have to push to get like the average person would not be able to tell the difference of that one to three percent maybe you could a little bit most most women will never compete in power lift or something most women will never look like you and never be able to build you have those kind of genetics if you live in symmetry for a year don't a year no no you gotta live there hun you got a lot of muscle there's a lot of muscle recruitment patterns we have to work on and correct here so it's gonna take a while I mean I love symmetry and I love what Justin suggested which is like you need to move in a different direction like you health why if we care about you're gonna get you're gonna maintain a great physique you have a great physique it's not like you're gonna lose that great physique get more functional but you need to yeah you need to start to focus on becoming more functional more mobility stuff so it's like programs like old-timey performance and symmetry are the programs you should kind of live in for a while and and get rid of the fear that you're going to not not going to be jacked here's why i like symmetry symmetry is going to give you the hypertrophy gains you're looking for okay and you can swap out the volume and place it more on the lower body so for every every three sets for upper body take two sets off and add those two sets to your lower body and you'll be happy do not do the last phase of symmetry which is five by five so you're only doing the unilateral phases and do it for a whole year and you'll have remarkable changes.

1:37:08You'll have remarkable changes. Did you quit in the isometric phase? Is that where you quit? No, I didn't do symmetry for very long at all. I maybe made it like two weeks. That's right. I want to lift heavy things. Yeah. I mean, Sal's giving you a little bit of what you want to hear. I'm going to still push you more towards Justin because I think symmetry is a nice segue. of like, so we're giving you still a little taste of hypertrophy and kind of what you want, but you really need to move in a different direction. I mean, at this point in stage of your life, where you've reached physically, potential-wise, if you want to be doing this deep into your 40s and 50s and still have a great health, you need to start to like that way of training a little more.

1:37:53You don't have to love it. It doesn't have to be the cornerstone. It's all you do, but you need to live in it for long enough every year that you're maintaining that joint health, that rotational strength, that good stability. There's nothing wrong with being as strong as you are. So the thing is to be able to strengthen and support that. And to strengthen and support that, that's why I would move over towards the old-time strength because we're addressing things that are deficits in your programming. So it directly addresses it. You can't overload it because these are all new stimuluses and different positions that you're not used to, not strong in.

1:38:31So it's like you build up your body in these directions. It's going to complement the entire whole. Here's what I'll say. We'll send you old-time strength because you don't have it. Do symmetry for a couple cycles so you get a little what you want because old-time strength, if you started that now, I guarantee you won't want to do it because it's so different. There's not a lot of lower body-specific volume in there. So do symmetry for a couple cycles and stick in the unilateral phases. avoid the bilateral ones. And then when you're like, okay, I'm ready, do old time and then go back to symmetry.

1:39:03And you'll get what you want. You'll totally get what you want. And you won't hurt. You'll feel good. The balance. Yep. Okay. I think I can do that. And at some point. I want to hear back from you in like three to four months. And at some point, I mean, if you competed, you would murder it. Oh my God. Yeah, but you know what? Yeah, I don't want to do that. No, don't do that. Because I don't think that's a good idea for somebody who we're trying to tell you you should move away from being focused on that. I mean, she would kill it all the time. She would kill it in physique. She would kill it in powerlifting.

1:39:31Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like my roommate. It's this place where you're at. I really think you need to start to try and learn to love some of the mobility stuff. And it doesn't mean you don't go back to hypertrophy. It's just that my normal suggestion to people is like one phase, so one block, at least three months of every year, should live in like a performance or a symmetry type of programming. at least at least three months of the year you should do that going away so learn to start to like that and incorporate more of that and and and then you can get you can train hypertrophy like you love but then go back to that and that will protect you and keep you healthy keep you strong keep the look you want let's have you back on in a few let's let's have you back on in 90 days after 90 days of unilateral training i'd love your feedback okay all right we'll do that all right i'll i'll start it tomorrow all right all right chelsea thanks for calling in Awesome.

1:40:23Thank you, guys. Bye-bye. God damn. I don't know if I've seen a - I'm jealous. I don't think I've seen a chick natural that looks like - I would have bet my bottom dollar - That's not the 1%. That's the 0.1%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I've seen a natural physique like that ever. No. Most women can take steroids and they wouldn't look like that. Oh, God, no. Yeah. That's why when she said like that was like - When she first said Anabar, I'm like, okay, so she's just taking testosterone then. That's what she said. Yeah. she left out that part I'm on D-ball normally I just dabble with a little bit of anabar for two weeks but I've been on D-ball my whole life she looked crazy by the way for women watching right now when you see the bodybuilder chicks they have these kind of genetics and then they take steroids but that's not even 1 % that's the 0.1 % of those kind of genetics those muscle building genetics where you just pack all muscle But, you know, see, this is, again, risk versus reward.

1:41:22Pushing strength for her and bilateral is not a good idea. That's what happened to me. She could break world records, but she'll hurt herself. But symmetry for her, I think, would be great. I mean, it's extra dangerous, I think, or at least speaking from experience, when you've already been that strong, so it's coming back even faster than it would. You're 70 pounds in one month. Yeah. Well, that was when my deadlift went over 100 within four weeks. Now, it was, you know, I'm starting at hardly anything. But that progression that fast and not reinforcing it with movements I should be doing. Yeah, it leaves you vulnerable.

1:41:55And, you know, on camera. And muscle adapts way faster than connective tissue and tendons is. Our next caller is Warren from California. What's up, Warren? How you doing, Warren? Hey. Hey, guys. How you doing? Good, man. How can we help you? First off, I just want to say thank you for all the time I've listened to your podcast and all the guidance you've given me. um and just to jump to it um yeah that my success with what you guys have have given over over your podcast over the years really i've listened to probably hundreds of episodes has been really life-changing so uh i'll jump right in my question is um and it's also just a compliment too but i've lost 40 pounds over the last year following your program, specifically MAPS anabolic.

1:42:45And I also did use a GLP-1. I was desperate to try something different. And I know you guys have talked a lot about that on your show and how effective it is. And I also followed a high protein diet and a daily supplement of creatine. So I've truly am in the best shape of my life right now. I've gone from a size XL and shirts down to a large and now a medium, which I never thought I could do. 36 to 34 to 32 in waist. And that's like comfortable. 217 pounds at one point. And I'm now, I went to 170. I'm now like 172 kind of hanging around in that zone. 54 years of age. and i'm just wondering what's the best way now to maintain these gains increase my strength if possible and uh avoid injury as i get older and if there's any other maps programs that are yeah wow bro we're looking at your pictures right now great job dude wow great job dude it's and you know what and talk about using a glp1 right i just i know you look like you built muscle yeah hell of a job bro hell of a job wow so i don't know if all that was underneath and just came out.

1:43:59No, no, no. You know muscle. That's the work. That's a test. Okay, listen. There's a lot of people that are going to hear this and want to go jump on a GLP-1. And I'm going to tell you 80 % of them will do it wrong. 80 % of them will just starve their body and they'll lose a ton of muscle and a ton of... You ate protein. You eat your protein. You strength trained. You got stronger. Those two things. Yeah, you did a great job. You look crazy, bro. Hey, how good does this feel right now? It feels amazing. I mean, honestly, I walked around and people at the gym tell me like, wow you're ripped and i'm like i've never heard that in my entire life so i mean i've been i've been overweight since i was in middle school like elementary school and i even did a weight loss camp back in 1986 and i lost 27 and a half pounds in a month eating 1200 calories a day and i know that's not the way to do it but it showed me that things were possible but i but that was on the 10 like you couldn't maintain that that was it was hard i mean you look like you shaved 20 years off your life too i mean you look so much younger too it's awesome i feel like well yeah sorry yeah you okay so here's it so all right the question is you want to come off the glp one how do you maintain all this is that the question yeah and i've started the taper process okay cool yeah so so uh there's there's a couple ways we can approach this okay uh you want to do a what you're doing right you're doing the right thing by tapering just from the people we've talked to the experts in the field and our experience now with glp ones that seems to be the better approach rather than the cold turkey and suddenly everything you know the cravings come back or whatever so taper uh you want to do a control you want to still be have some control with the nutrition so you still want to track a little bit still higher just so it doesn't yeah where are you at with calories right now just curious uh i fluctuate uh pretty much about 2500 calories a day is about what I need to maintain.

1:45:51And I think I was down, I don't know what I was, you know, probably around 2000 to 22 is what my goal was when I was kind of cutting and building. But like you said, for the eating part, like I had to kind of force feed myself just to make sure I hit those numbers you guys always say for protein. So what you want to do, Warren, is a controlled reverse diet, focus on building. So you want to kind of take advantage of a little bit of the increased hunger. And then there's a bigger kind of picture thing we want to look at, which is you want to really think about how you're going to handle the hunger signals, because you have a history of handling them in a particular way.

1:46:29So what you need to do is substitute the old behaviors, because what we want to do is just not do the old behavior, but we have nothing to substitute it with. Now, I don't know you, but so you know you. So, you know, you got to think about what are my triggers? When did I overeat? Was it when I was bored? Was it when I was stressed? Was it when I was socializing? So you want to think about that and then you want to replace old behaviors with new ones, which is going to feel kind of awkward. So you're going to say, okay, when I'm stressed, hunger is going to come back. I used to eat when I was stressed.

1:47:00Here's what I'm going to do instead. I'm going to journal or I'm going to go for a walk or I'm going to read or something. Okay. So you want to replace those old behaviors with new ones and start to create new behaviors around how you manage the increased hunger. What was the kryptonite? What was it? It was late night snacking for sure. Okay. And sugar. Okay. I always was a love sugar. I would, you know, go through a bowl of ice cream or I should say, you know, like a carton, right? How long were you on the GLP-1? Just under a year. Okay. Okay, so good news is the neural networks that were connected to some of those behaviors have weakened.

1:47:41So it's not going to be as bad as it was before. But you can re-strengthen them by re-engaging in those old behaviors. You were just about to say what you replaced it with. So what do you do now? Because, I mean, this is my hack. You drink yogurt at night. Blueberries, drink yogurt. That's my guy. I listen to everything you guys say. Yeah, that's me. I mean, literally, that's my kryptonite is ice cream. and I could eat a whole thing sitting down. And if I just make that discipline to do that, when the cravings come back, it'll still be hard. But if you continue that, and I tell you what, I know this about myself.

1:48:13I flirt with a little bit of it and I go, I could just have it once in a while. And once in a while, it turns into more often, more often, more often. So if you can just stick to that as your thing, as the Greek yogurt and granola or blueberries, that's kind of what I do at night when I get that craving. I also love using things like Legion or Magic Spoon cereal. cereal sometimes gives me that kind of the protein cereal. Um, and, and just, I keep ice cream out of the house. That's a, that keeps me in shape, man. That's the, that's the difference maker. I've got little kids, so it's not little, but the kids that like to snack too.

1:48:45Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, and then the other thing too, is with the GLP one, uh, you can always go back on if you start to feel like you're, you're, you're coming back. And so it doesn't have to be like, I'm off. You feel like I'm off. And if I feel like, Oh, I'm going, then I'll get back on for a little while and then restart this whole process. So that's something else to consider. How low of a dose have you got down to? Do you know what the dosage is? It's like a fourth. It was up. I mean, they do different units and whatnot, but it's basically a fourth of what I peaked out at. And the peak was almost too strong for me.

1:49:18It was super effective. Like, it's crazy. The first time I took it, like, I literally forgot to eat for hours. Like, you're just, it doesn't even cross your mind. And then here's the other thing too, Warren. if you want, you can work with somebody who's going to work you through a controlled reverse diet through this process. And that's just really helpful safeguard. Just kind of like, you know, coaching you through this process of coming off the GLP one, doing a reverse diet, moving into not having the GLP one. Um, and a coach could help you that it would probably be a six month process. Um, so if that's something that you'd be open to, I could have someone call you.

1:49:54Uh, but again, you have that, you know, we've worked with a lot of people now who've come off and I'd say a significant minority will have to go back on for a short period and kind of restart. It's not a big deal. You just go back on for a few months and then you come back off with a step-down process. But your best bet is, of course, working with someone through what it will be because that's the best thing you want to do is you want to leverage this to a reverse diet. And what will happen if we do the reverse diet right, Warren, is you're going to just build muscle. Yeah, yeah. You're just going to build muscle now.

1:50:22So you're just going to get strong and build muscle, and you're going to stay lean. Yeah, yeah. Your calorie intake can definitely go up. you'll probably get around 3 ,000, 3 ,200 calories. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Not right away. You'll inch your way up to that, and then you'll probably hover around a 3 ,000, 3 ,200 lean like you are, but you'll probably weigh about 178, maybe 180. Yeah, 10 pounds of lean body. Yeah, yeah. That's what will happen, you know? Especially if you keep it in control. I feel like as I get older, too, like I'll get little shoulder pains or whatever, you know, doing some lifting and whatnot.

1:50:54That's a programming thing. Yeah, that's – to Kyle's point about having a coach, this is the kind of cool part too about having a coach is as you communicate this stuff, we would change your programming. They can weave you through a lot. It's not because you're getting too strong or building too much muscle. It's just a programming issue. You just got to change the program. Yeah, just a different focus. But, man, hell of a job. Hell of a job, bro. Yeah, man. I think, Adam, I think it's your – I'm not sure who's the Z-press. Who likes the Z-press? I'm the only guy that does it at the gym, and I really feel like it made my shoulders just pop.

1:51:25huge and I appreciate that if nobody else does it and your guys are saying to do it I'm not supposed to do it what an inspiration do you want one of our coaches to call you to talk to you about scaling this that'd be fine are you local by the way would you be in person or virtual are you far from us we're up in San Jose area he's San Diego I'm down in San Diego I hope you join the family dude I'd love to see you go through this whole journey you've done such a great job Yeah, great before and after, dude. Yeah, yeah. Is there any other MAPS program you would recommend to make it look better? Yeah, so when the coach calls you, whether you work with them or not, I'll inform them to send you the program they think is most ideal.

1:52:09So they'll be able to ask you more questions and figure it out. I would probably recommend Symmetry, but we'll see if they agree because they're going to spend some more time with you. Yeah, they can assess. Okay. Cool. If you guys ever need a topic for another show, all the younger kids at the gym, you know, on their phones, hogging the equipment, man. You guys probably don't deal with that because you've got your own private space. I know. Occasionally, though, we go in there and we see it. It's wild. That's my thing. Just put the phone in the bag and hit it hard. Oh, it's ridiculous. The tripods I see in the gym.

1:52:43You're killing it, Warren. Good job, man. Exciting to see your next three to six months, brother. All right. Can't wait to hear the next set of programming. Thank you, gentlemen. You got it, man. Thank you. It's been an honor. Thank you very much. That's the right way to do it. What a cool inspiration right there. I hope I look like that at 54. And I know our editors are going to put these before and afters in there. So you'll sometimes see with the GLP-1 is weight loss, and they look smaller, but they're kind of skinny fat. Right. He got leaner. Yeah. There's a body composition change. Muscular.

1:53:12And he's got muscle. You don't even have to. I didn't even have to ask him what he did. I knew he did it right. Because I was waiting to see what he looked like from it. because using a GLP-1 and losing 70 pounds. You just eat less. Yeah, just like he said, it wasn't hard to not. He was like, I remember when we did that experiment where I did it, and we went that day, I was like, holy shit, all day. I didn't even remember to eat. I have no appetite at all. So it's not hard to lose weight. What is hard is to get rid of those cravings you do not want to eat, but then still have the discipline to go after you.

1:53:46To eat and fuel muscle. To fuel your body and then to train the appropriate amount to where you actually could, like, what a great, great, great example of how powerful and useful a GLP was. It's done properly. So cool. That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at MindPumpMedia. Thank you for listening to MindPump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance and MAPS Aesthetic.

1:54:21Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family.

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