2789: 5 Weird but Effective Ways to Add Muscle.

31:31I mean, do you think that guy - What would you talk about now at your age with a 26-year-old? He'd be like, oh, God, bored. What are we talking about? What are we doing here? Let alone a 70-year-old? Do you think he doesn't have - He's a dinosaur. Do you think he doesn't have enough hobbies and friends to talk to people and do this to fill that gap? Okay. I mean, I'm just - No, I'm just - I want you to think a little bit, like, a little broader here. like you he's not you're trying to defend him is what you're doing i mean yeah because i would probably be this guy if i would if i and i would and my wife listens to the show she knows that like i told her if this doesn't work out like it's like you're it you're you're my one you're my one man this is your work yeah if it doesn't work then it's going back to then it's yeah it's five five girlfriends that i don't really care you know i'm saying i'll keep my friends and all other stuff like that and just i mean he's he's got plenty of stuff on his plate he's got plenty of hobbies he's got plenty of money he's got plenty of stuff like that like uh that's the probably part that he can't fill that gap and a and a 70 year old partner from school reads her stories at night it's arm candy i mean i'd say he gets to walk into he gets to walk into dinner and and say you know i've got one of the hottest chicks at the dinner with all his other buddies who you know almost referenced Nicki Minaj or something.

32:48I don't even know an artist right now that would be ridiculous. She'd pull him to go watch. I mean, Doug, you're approaching that age. Would you date a 26-year-old? Why am I here? Yeah, I mean, the politically correct answer is no, of course not. See? Good man. But here's the thing. I'll agree with Sal, too. I mean, you probably don't have a lot in common. I feel like that would be a headache, a nightmare. Well, it depends on the person. It really does. Depends on the person. She's a 26-year-old who was dating a 70-year-old. What do you think's there? Okay, what do you think's there? I mean, you can find a hot one with a personality.

33:26You can also find, and she could be smart. Smart in the fact that, like, listen, I'm happy with how he lives his life and does his thing. He gives me the freedom to do my thing. When we're together, we have a blast and stuff like that. When I'm off doing my thing, I'm hanging out with my friends. Like, we have this. I guarantee he didn't just pick some random 26 year old that was hot. I guarantee that that's not the only 26 year old hot girl he could have married or been a girlfriend with. He found one that probably was like, cool. Like, he's like, listen, I don't have to have 26 year old conversations all day long.

34:00She comes to me at dinner. We have a great time. She looks amazing on my arm. We go to the boat and she's hanging out next to me, like, you know, on the yacht. You know what I'm saying? He's not a lot about this. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And then when I want to go play poker with the boys, she's not giving me shit. She goes, hangs out with her girls. I don't care. You know what I'm saying? Meanwhile, you have kids and grandkids. Get you out of the house. Come on. Meanwhile, you got kids and grandkids. You got your granddaughters coming up to you. Grandpa Adam, who's this? Yeah. I went to school with her.

34:28Yeah. She was younger than me when I was in class. Who is this? Oh, this is Pappy's new girlfriend. Come on. Yeah, you know, I guess. That is one of the downsides. That's a huge downside. Okay, so, okay. Come on, dude. It gets publicized because he's obviously in the space of me. Does this guy, you know, bring, does he marry her? Does he bring her around all his grandkids and stuff like that? Or is this like his girlfriend? You know? It's like, this is my girlfriend. I like this. And he does, I don't have to explain that to my granddaughter. You don't hide her. You don't hide her. I'm sure she's totally.

35:03I built a tunnel. I'm sure she's totally okay taking the helicopter to Belize with her friends while I go do family time with my grandkids. I'm sure she's not like, why don't I get to go play with the grandkids? I got to go take the helicopter to Belize with my three girlfriends. Right? I mean, don't you think that's how it goes down? I don't know. Yeah, probably. Yeah, I think it's like that. Probably not a helicopter to Belize, though. Probably a private jet. All right. I'm changing subject. We just lost every female listener, Adam. Yeah. Good job, dude. Good job. I got some studies, some more studies on probiotics.

35:35The studies on probiotics on fat loss and muscle gain are starting to compile. It's wild. Meta analysis. Meta analysis are showing across the board a positive effect on fat loss and probably through speeding up the metabolism. How long until we start to see companies market it as a fat loss? It's coming. They're going to 100 % start marketing probiotics as a fat loss product. 100%. It's got more data. probiotics have more data supporting them for fat loss than every fat loss supplement that's out there. Is that true? Think of a fat loss supplement that's got great data supporting. They don't exist.

36:08They don't exist. No. It's pure marketing. Yeah, dude. So it's pretty cool. I'm looking at, there were 45 plus studies that were done to notice an association. All of them notice a positive association. It's kind of interesting why, I wonder, it would be interesting to talk to Seed, right? We've been working with Seed for a long time. Is it because of the claims? They're the leaders in this space. curious to why they wouldn't do that if it's got such great you know how that's one of the touchiest things you you can advertise towards exactly advertising those claims is rough yes um and they're you know they're probiotic they're established they do a good job so it's a good question i don't know but the day here's the thing that i was thinking right uh metabolism a big party of metabolism gut health is your is the bacteria in your gut yeah of course that plays a big role and energy production and breaking food down and where it goes.

36:57Think of how many clients that we've had and our trainers right now have where they're doing a lot of the things right, but their progress has stalled so bad because they have some sort of gut issue that they're dealing with. And then they solve their gut issue and all of a sudden, bam, they start building muscle, bam, they start losing body fat. Like it's so important. I think it's more important than the science is caught up to. So I've been using seed for a long time. And it's like a staple. And I love it. It really helps with gut health, all that stuff. You know what's really coming in value?

37:27The value that I'm getting from it a lot right now is that it's allowing me to push my calories and my protein intake. Because sometimes when you start to push calories and protein, especially when you get past a certain point, it's the gut health. The digestive issues. That's what stops you. You hear this all the time. That's using my barrier, yeah. I can utilize more of the food that I eat and the nutrients. It keeps me regular. it makes a huge difference yeah by the way you guys know they have a multivitamin seed look them up doug look up their multivitamin yes and i and it's i just got it i've been using it so i like here's why i like seed a lot a lot of their science goes into the delivery process which is with probiotics how do you keep them alive how do you get them delivered to the right part of the body without them getting broken down all that stuff so they use that science with multivitamins.

38:18And when you look at nutrients, micronutrients, some of them get absorbed. In this part of the digestive system, some of them get used. In this part of the digestive system and figuring out how to get them where you want them to go is a big problem. Usually you just throw them all at the body and whatever comes through comes through. They've used their science in the capsules that they use with the probiotics, also with the multivitamin. So imagining multivitamins in multiple capsules. That's right. So one inside one with different. Oh, wow. Fascinating. Yep. Oh, wow. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, and I've been using it.

38:48Oh, wow. Yeah. I haven't seen it. Yeah, and I like it. Do we have any here? Do you know if we have any here? No, I bought it. I didn't want to wait for them to send me one, dude. Oh, that's so funny. Remember they didn't send us our money. I mean, it just shows you how bought in you are, though. Yeah. It's actually paid for it. The product we get for free, you got to buy it. Oh, that's cool. You guys want to hear crazy? You guys ever look up crazy patents that actually exist? You ever do? I know you have. Yeah, all the time. There's some weird. No, I have no. I cannot relate to this. It's like you looking up studies.

39:15I cannot relate to this conversation at all. Oh, there's weird things that have been patented before. 1965. Doug, look this up. Centrifugal force birth delivery. Or look that up. Birth delivery centrifugal force patent, 1965. What? A scientist. Were you like spinning off like table or something? You know that's when you do like cattle, right? You let the cattle come out, you swing them around like that? I don't know that. Yeah, yeah. The baby cows, they get all that stuff out of there. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, this was a table. Yeah, yeah. No, this guy invented a table to help deliver babies where a woman lays on it and it spins.

39:50It rotates? So the baby... Look right there. Look right there. Yeah, dude. Facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force. Hey, could you imagine someone in the middle of the... What lady is going to sign up for that? Dude, you... Say it was tested on somebody to get it patented, didn't it? That's crazy. No, they don't have to test it. Oh, you can patent something and not have tested anything. He said to have really good pictures and diagrams. You just think that's going to be a thing? Somebody thought that was a good idea. Somebody thought, somebody has, whoever invented this had never been around a real child.

40:19Yeah, they were a childless couple that invented it. Oh, of course. Wow. So what if we spin like engineers? How many times do patents happen just like a gamble? Like you're hoping that. Most. Oh, yeah. Most of them. Is that what it is? It is. And a lot of them, I mean, they do that to really just try to prevent any competition a lot of times too. before they were requiring the technology. And Apple buys up a lot of them if you go in. You'll note that there's a net right in front to catch the baby when it flies out. What? A net? Thank goodness. I like how the diagram is boobs. What a ridiculous invention.

41:01Don't you remember we showed you that one patent that mouse trap that was with a pistol? Yeah. You saw that one, right? It's just... Yeah. You put your gun on it And then if the trigger hits and it just shoots.

41:15Hilarious. Why go through all that money? Because it's expensive to go all the way through. It is, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Plus you'll blow brain. And to maintain it. And internationals, different from just the US patents. And they expire too, right? So you get the renewal manual. Only a few years you have. Yeah, I went down all that because, you know, obviously I had created something. Sal, did you see the clip? I shared a clip of Peter Atiyah and I think a hormone specialist, a female hormone specialist doctor talking about testosterone for men and like the argument of that. Did you see that? No.

41:48What did he say? Oh, I just, I thought it was, I mean, I shared it as if, and I said it in the post that if you've been listening to Mind Pump long enough, we've been talking about this. And you theorized this a long time ago, and I think we've said it many times, that you can have two men, the same age, same everything, or a lot of things similar, right? Not exactly the same DNA. It doesn't have to be identical to hands, but two men that have 400 test levels and one of them feels great, builds muscle, all the things. And yet the other one could have all the symptoms of low testosterone. And Peter Atiyah is theorizing that a lot of that has to, he thinks to do with androgen receptor density.

42:31Yeah, of course. And so, and that's just, and that the, his ability to upregulate. They did a study. They did this one study to look at the association between natural testosterone levels and the ability, the, your ability to build muscle. So I took a bunch of men and they tested their testosterone and then had them do strength training. And they want to see was higher testosterone associated with building more muscle. Now, all the men were within a kind of in the range. Okay. what was a stronger association was androgen receptor density i thought they can't measure that they can with muscle biopsy oh yeah they have to cut it out no they you can do a muscle biopsy while you're alive because that was uh what was one of the things peter t was saying he's like i wish we had a good test that's not a good test like you can't take people in and right piece of their muscle so what's unfortunate is that we we don't have a really good changes when you strain train you up regulate you get more receptors there's supplements that might do it or ways of eating.

43:26Because he made this case. He's just like, you take that case of the two guys that are on 400. You give the guy who has all these terrible symptoms the added HRT to bring him up to say 900 or 1 ,000 and he feels life-changing. You do that same thing for that guy who already felt amazing at 400, bring him up to 900. He feels no change at all. It's also why I think, this is a total theory. I don't have any data to support this, but when you talk to bodybuilders or you look at the bodybuilding space, there's such a crazy variance between their tolerance of anabolic steroids. Like some guys - I mean, I'm that way.

44:00Would take a bunch and they're fine. Everything feels good. Some like, oh my God, I go to that point. I get all these crazy side effects or worse. And I think it has to do with androgen. Like if you have more androgen receptors, you're going to utilize more of what you take. Whereas some guys, it's like, it's not getting used. So it just turns into other stuff. It gets converted to other hormones. I mean, I've seen crazy examples of that, you know, anecdotally speaking. and also my own personal experience where i remember meeting men's physique guys that were just taking grams of stuff that's crazy and just horrible results uh personally uh i experimented with increasing my dose and the the highest i could really get without getting like terrible adverse effects was 500 milligrams which uh in the bodybuilding world is like a baby nobody takes that yeah that's like what these some of these guys so and i i have found that like my body does really good on just a mild dose of it puts puts me at optimal level like that and i get no adverse effects i start pushing those limits and a hundred percent see all these bad no better effects yeah and no better effects like get all the bad side effects from it and and this is what i've seen with some of these people with some of these other bodybuilders some of them that could though could push grams and the more they push the bigger the bigger they got and the stronger they got and it's just so there's there's definitely more there than just testosterone you know that's right free testosterone levels that we don't know about.

45:22Do you know your androgen receptors go up as you get older as a man? Up? Yep. They think it's because your testosterone levels start to decline and your body starts to raise androgen receptors. So, yeah, there tends to be higher receptor density. I mean, this would be, have to have some sort of correlation to old man strength. Maybe. Wouldn't you think? Maybe. Could be. I mean, we theorize that. Well, we theorize that and so that's probably paying a factor too. but so is probably that because it's like real strength like if anyone's ever seen like old man strength it's like yeah go wrestle your uncle it's like it's weird how it doesn't make sense and like you can't think that he's has this that i mean he has some great cns adaptation in his body that's definitely part of it but there's probably something else there and if you're saying that androgen receptors go up as you age you know he probably needs a lot less of the stuff to which i have also experienced in my own life as i've gotten older and i've talked about talked about of the show that's i think it's one of the blessings of aging as a man that i've realized is that man i just need very little uh volume in training to to obtain the results that i felt i had to work so hard for in my 20s totally yeah speaking of results did you doug pull up the before and afters from caldera labs clinical trials check this caldera lab like all power to them they spend money on clinical trials yeah so this is a skincare company um and they advertise to men but they actually spend money on real studies okay so they're not just like hey check this out they actually did real studies and the studies show tremendous results these are the before and afters from the studies click enlarge some of those doug so so the guys can see them i mean it's look at that whoa look at that that's after how many weeks four weeks that's a four week difference and you can visibly see the difference in his wrinkles and the health of his skin yeah like we're talking about like typically that would be uh like botox or something to produce something like that and they have all these before and afters on their site well this goes back to the conversation we had the other day on uh yeah look at that wow huh that's so cool they have all those nine so over 90 percent of the people in the clinical trials saw it saw visible improvements after four weeks on their skin i mean they're killing it there's a lot of cool stuff now that we can do naturally yep to to really to fight anti or to you know well the way it works is it's just making your skin healthier and their products facilitate the microbiome the skin that's good they don't strip your body of their natural oils and then make you pretty like they're literally working with your body so they've hit the they've really done it yeah we've done it i mean i've gone away complete spending i don't know how many years it's been since i've used any sort of the steroid creams or stuff like that from or psoriasis i've moved completely all to all natural stuff and i i've had just as much success if not better than all that all those creams i used to do i regret that i feel like all the years that i did that i screwed myself because it would it would work so well and then it would come back worse work so well then come back worse your body your body down regulates this receptor and then it starts to rebound and cause this other thing yeah have you ever seen people use steroid creams for the psoriasis or eczema and over years and years and years and years it they need to use more more more more and then they get to a point when it stops working and they have to go off so there's people that will post this they're like i have to go off and then their skin gets so violent reaction violent reaction that'll last like 30 to 60 days and then start to come back and these poor people have to go through that whole process yeah yeah yeah it's pretty wild i mean i felt like i was have experienced a mild version of that that's what's happened to me is like it got worse after i did all that stuff and then since it's been years now where i've used products like this like this and ghk cu are like the the go-to things for for my psoriasis just to constantly use those the caldera product and that and that has kept it the same for i don't know how many years like it has it it's hard when you have psoriasis gets worse as you age eczema can get better as you age uh psoriasis that's true it gets worse um and so it's just kept it at bay where i felt like the first few years i had it when i was using all those creams it just exacerbated it my daughter gets a little bit of eczema in the crook of her elbow if she eats eggs because she's got intolerance to eggs so she thinks my three-year-old she thinks it's called eczema because of eggs

49:51so i want to bring something up to you guys real quick because i would love your guys's opinion on this. I think this is so true and it's so incredible. So Thursday mornings, my church has something called Better Man. So Better Man is this, it's this program, I guess you would call it a program that different churches will do. So it's not just to my church, like lots of churches will do, there's lots of people. And it's essentially bringing men together to help make them better men, better fathers, better husbands, better brothers, better sons. and of course it's all based on scripture but it's also based on you know coaching and psychology and it's really really good well anyway today it was day two and i love it and they were bringing something up so there's a quote in fact it's weird i was wearing the shirt uh proverbs 27 17 iron sharpens iron and so in this proverb it says iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another and so what they brought what he brought up and i think this is so true as he said only a man can tell another man certain things and lift them up.

50:52If you try to have your wife or your girlfriend or a woman say it to you, it just doesn't hit the same. And think about that. Think about getting called out by your buddy versus if your wife did it and the difference you would feel. And he was talking about data and how men need to have close male relationships because men lift each other up and really can push each other in ways that typically we don't receive from women just as well or we'll perceive it as being critical or make us feel weak. Where does your evolutionary mind go for that? Oh, God. I mean, I could easily come up with the evolutionary theory around that.

51:29Like guys going off to hunt or go to war. Like you want to succeed at the hunt or war? We're not going to sit here. There's no time to, yeah, emotionally talk your way through it. Think about it this way. It's just like matter of fact, brass tacks. Here's what you're doing wrong. Think about it this way. Imagine we're at work and we're trying to build. We've done this 10 years. We're building this business and I'm doing something. And when you guys look at me angrily, you know, but serious. And I obviously respect you guys. You look at me like, man, you're being a pussy. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine if your wife said that to you.

52:01Right. Way different. Well, you know what's interesting? Way different. Well, what's interesting about you're saying that with that, how wild is this? your buddy can say that to you and it gets you fired up that's right to go get your wife on the other hand on their hand says go slay that dragon very different and and that makes you go do that very different that interesting and if your buddy said go slay that dragon like i you wouldn't you wouldn't get me up for that no it would you calling me a pussy yeah would get me more fire yourself up yeah or what do you think you're doing quit being a bitch yeah you could call me out like that and that would fire me up to go hey man you're drinking too much bro you need to cut that out you know You might be like, oh.

52:38But you telling me, go slay that dragon for us doesn't fire me up. Very different. Where your wife tells you to go do that. Very different. Yeah, yeah. And so they were talking about this and it was like blowing my mind because I'm like, man, that's so true. Like, again, your buddy could come to you and be like, hey, man, bro, you're eating too much. Or you're drinking too much, dude. And your wife coming to you, you're drinking too much. She's like, come on, stop it. Don't tell me that. I'm trying to, you know what I mean? I mean, that's why the last few years culturally just hasn't, hasn't resonated with me at all it's like every every sports team every group of guys everything i've ever experienced is just very cold delivery like this is you're fat you know or you're this i'm like ah okay you know and you you move on and everybody moves on and it's like uh i know it's it's like harsh and it's it's sort of like something that we we've tried to you know We've tried to manage other people's feelings and be a little more empathetic.

53:38And I'm definitely, I understand that. But at the same time, amongst men, I don't want to lose that. Dude, one of my favorite YouTube viral clips of all time is the baseball dad coach with the youth boys. And he's talking shit to all of them. And it's like, if your dad says it's okay, he's calling out all of them. Have you known a clip I'm talking about, Doug? Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah. That is one of the all-time greatest clips ever of that dad. I've heard this before, too, that if your wife wants you to, she has to lift the crown higher than you are so you can raise yourself to it, which is very different.

54:16But your buddies, guys you respect, I should say. Some random dude's not going to do this. But guys, they can kick you in the butt. It's very different. I would receive it very different from a man than I would. But my wife could lift me like no one else. But it's a totally different thing. So they were talking about how iron sharpens iron, and they were talking about the data on how important it is that men have close male relationships and mentors and you see this throughout culture and history yeah and men are so isolated today where they have buddies at work and then they go home and then they're just at home but you don't have those male friendships where you guys push each other and i was like man that's so so true i mean you're pointing out one of the things and to justin's point what's wrong with our culture right now i mean this is the loneliest time men have ever reported that right and so it's like the importance of having other and it's not just other men but other good men right of course it's got to be men you respect other men that you're not gonna respect some you know something you don't respect like criticizes you you're not gonna i mean i tell i always tell our our young male staff and my my my nephews and uh that are like that are younger than me like you should be trying to seek out men in your life that you admire in every aspect totally uh whether that be spiritual whether that be physical whether that be financial not one guy that's got all of no no exactly like you you should have a specialty of all of them like no that's great if you have a guy that's got a great balance of all that that you could have as a major mentor that's awesome you have a unicorn if you find that but easier to find is you know that guy that is like he's just a financial genius and so like that's what i i talk to him about and it's like or that guy that is just a spiritual genius or that like find that in other men and and and foster those relationships i think uh the mistake i probably made when i was in my early 20s is i thought i needed to have like all these commonalities with like like oh if like we were like we were high school buddies like we need to have we need to have we need like sports we do this we do all these things or and i needed to find other guys that were just like that when it's like dude no that's not the strategy i have relationships with other men that we only have a thing in common like that when we're together all we talk about is business right or all we do talk about is our spiritual walker all we talk about you know i'm saying so it's like you can you can build relationships and you don't have to have all these things in common so there's also tons of value in having an older mentor so a man has more experience than you who's done the things that you looked up to and then having someone younger than you that you mentored to.

56:47So that's another thing. Can I tell you how, okay, so I share this with Doug. You guys, there's a, you should watch this because it really kind of, it really brought me back down to earth a little bit because I'm guilty of this. I think we're all guilty of this on this podcast of talking about just the times right now and just how terrible it is. Sure, sure. Well, all this shit, right? Right. And you're probably the most guilty of this for sure. You're like, you know, fucking Chicken Little with skies always falling, right? I'd like this depends if we're talking about the business that's you yeah okay that's fair that's fair we just said that earlier yeah that's fair until I say something good about the business Adam Forts on it right away that's fair that's fair there's a show on Netflix right now I think it's called 1975 look it up either 1975 you guys should watch it I have have you watched it yeah it's just everything that was going on in culture the world Hollywood it was crazy it was it was crazy crazy crazy yeah it was crazy I mean, but Paul, the oil embargo.

57:47Yes. Oil embargo. The water gate. I mean, there was, there was so much assassinations, corruptions, a division. The cold war was crazy. Yeah. 1975. Break down 1975. You know what the difference was? Yeah. I'll tell you right now what the difference was. We're not social media. Yeah. You didn't have media. That's the only, you know, if we had Instagram back then, you would, yes, exactly. If you could have seen the stuff that was going on every day in your feed, everybody would be worse than what they are. Dude, people couldn't get gas on certain days. Yeah. If your license ended in an odd number, you can only get gas on Mondays and Wednesdays.

58:32So if you have no gas on Thursday, you got to take the bus to work. I'm sorry. And you had to wait in a line. In a long-ass line. Some people would wait an hour. Well, you'd only get certain news that was national news. you wouldn't get like this state is experiencing this crazy thing that's happening they got 24 7 news they run out of stuff to say internationally even and it's like you know it it's just like now all the news that's negative we could have access to every single day that and so it was it was a good watch for me for that reason like i mean i just clicked it on the clear on it was like like kind of you know almost white noise for me it wasn't like something and i was and i'm watching and I'm going, oh my gosh, this is way worse than what we're experiencing.

59:16And on every level, the scare of the dollar. Serial killers. Race relations. Kidnaps. War. Money. Politics. Cultural division. I mean, everything you could think of that we talk about today, how it is so bad today. Housing, interest rates. Yeah, it was crazy. All those things were way worse back then and crazier. It's just that, like you said, we didn't have Twitter and Instagram to remind you a thousand times every day of every single thing. You know, my wife's done this week. God bless her. And I noticed a huge difference. And she, she turns her phone all day. She turns her phone off. I can't get ahold of her.

59:53In fact, if I want to get ahold of her, you know what I got to do? I got to get on our like security camera and talk through it to tell her I need to talk to her. So she takes her, she bricks it all day. That's awesome. She's done it all week. Yeah. And it's made for her. It's made a huge difference. That's why my, my, my car trip that I just got, it's one of my favorite trips when we, when we drive for eight hours for three days straight that those speeds i have two hands on the wheel at all times i never touch my phone it is it's in my glove box plugged in listening to music while i'm driving and it's the most it's what am i that's why i love it so much i'm so hyper present and disconnected from the world and i and sometimes i i need something like that that forces that because it's hard to discipline yourself to just that's so kudos to her to just brick your phone on a random you know that's why i like using the sauna in the steam room yeah you can't bring it in there i i can't bring anything because it'll break my phone yeah so i sit in there and i'm sitting it's the only time i really effectively do it i just sit i mean i i just i just urge everybody to go watch that show because so much of what we talk about today is just this alarmist about how horrible and crazy and bad and do you know many serial killers were in the 70s Dude, could you imagine social media?

1:01:04Literally, name a thing that you talk about today. Worse. That is so bad. It was worse. Housing, economy, murder, cultural division, war, politic, corruption. I mean, it was worse. I know. It was. So that's why it's such a good exercise for everyone. And guess what? We're here. We made it. I know. We made it all the way to 2026. And that was in september 50 years ago. Here's the difference. That today, a lot of our problems are self-inflicted, psychological. 100 % in our heads 100 % psychological war that's why I think it's such a good exercise for you it's such a good exercise what do you think would happen if everybody turned their phones off most of the time do you think we would see a radical change oh yeah in mental health of course in connection I think all the problems that we see today that we can label like loneliness anxiety depression I bet you we'd see a sharp I think of what they're trying to do so I guess they're trying to do that with schools right so according to the teacher that I was talking to yeah my daughter school does that where they brick the phones she has to put it in a Faraday bag yeah when she gets there they just started that yeah so that yeah so if that I think that already we're going to see in our youth is a big difference if they got to brick their phones for the whole day of school that could be a super powerful you know what's crazy about what we're talking about right now is we're going to hang up these mics we're all going to get our phones right afterwards yep that's right i just called you out iron sharpening guys that's that's how crazy addictive this crap is oh yeah i mean i think that's the reason why we talk about it is i'm i'm fully aware of the pool uh that it has you know and i and i think there's because then there's the other side of this right like i also recognize that our entire business is built off of that this was my talk yesterday i got interviewed uh ironically um it was like a a menopause show right i picked you yeah yeah person yeah And it was about like a spousal, like getting in shape and the challenge of that.

1:03:01And it ended up going down this whole direction. The direction I took it is like relationship health. Yeah. Because if you don't first fix that and you don't have good communication with your partner and you can't come to your partner and say, hey, I want to make 2026 the healthiest year of our life. Let's agree that we're going to cook our meals at dinner, you know, and start trying to walk every day. and you can't have that conversation with your partner, you're figuring out macros and figuring out the best. Waste of time. Waste of time. Yeah, you're right. You need to solve that first. And so my whole conversation for over an hour, we never touched macros and protein intake and exercise selection.

1:03:42Good, good, good. It was all about relationship hacks that I have found to connect me and my partner. You know what data blew me away when I first read it years ago? And I first read it because of gastric bypass surgery. This is when it got kind of popular in the early 2000s, late 90s. And it's true, by the way, without gastric bypass. When you have a couple that's – both people are overweight. If one person dramatically improves their health, divorce rate goes up. I talked about this. I talked about it on the show. A lot of people don't – that's a scary stat. Here's what I explained to them, though.

1:04:12I said, it's not what you think it is. A lot of people think it's, oh, that person got fit, and they got the other people attracted that are looking to them. It's not that. It's that one chose to grow, and the other one did it. That's right. and they grew and so replace that with anything, right? You could become a better person. You can get whatever it is. It's that that team, okay, because you decide when you marry someone that you are one, you're a team, right? One flesh. Yes. And so if you've agreed upon that and one of you decides to make this radical change of their life towards being healthier and the other one chooses not to.

1:04:45You just create a distance. The likelihood that they – and if they do – I wouldn't even argue the ones that just stay together, stay together to stay together. Like you're saying that the divorce rate is high. It's like, how successful is the marriages that just stay together even with that? Because you have a person who has, they've grown apart. And so, yeah, the whole talk was just so - By the way, I don't want that data to make someone encourage them then to leave their partner if they're in that stress. Because I've also seen this as a trainer. When one person moves in this direction and the other person doesn't, eventually, sometimes it takes years, sometimes it takes years, But eventually it bleeds into the other partner and the rest of the family.

1:05:23And inspires them. And inspires them. And if you do it lovingly, not controlling, you just do it. And you don't try to hammer them and force them to do it. And you just do your thing. Eventually, I've seen it happen time and time again. You hang in there. You love each other. You love them anyway. They start to follow. So I just want to. Well, I mean, I know. I agree. Again, back to like what I talked so much about were all these little hacks on. You know, I talked about how I surrendered. when katrina and i got together i surrendered the calendar i just said i don't i don't run the calendar like you tell me where we need to be as a team and stuff like that like i think that's important uh uh listening to audiobooks together grows us together like getting a making sure that every other week that we get away without our son or nancy it's like you do all that and that forces the the communication the connection the bond to each other then it makes the hey let's eat healthier or let's cut out the drinking or let's do this thing.

1:06:18Much easier. If you try and do that and you don't have that and that person also doesn't care about that It doesn't land well. It doesn't land well at all. Arthur Brooks gave this great analogy. He said, here's the issue with couples therapy. He goes, you've got a glass with water and dirt in it. You'll go to therapy and he'll just stir up the dirt. You just keep stirring it up. What if you did this instead? What if you got a glass of clean water which is fun together and hanging out together and you just poured it into the glass eventually what would happen it's like yeah 100 100 just connect and have fun together and yes that that is that is the foundation that agree and i believe that analogy and i believe that's your path if you're listening and you don't have a partner that is on the same health journey as you is fix the relationship first and work on that because that is going to be the foundation of getting that partner to want to do that with you.

1:07:17And if you try and do it without them or in spite of them. It turns into resentment. Yes, yes. It's really, really hard to do that. Organifi is a supplement company that is incredibly good at what they do. They use superfood blends like their green juice or their red juice to help with stress, inflammation to make you feel better. The red juice gives you energy. The green juice is good for stress and inflammation. They have a gold juice. This is great before sleep to give you a better sleep. They also have vegan protein powders and lots of other products. Third party tested, very efficacious, clean and healthy.

1:07:53We've been with the sponsor for years because they do such a damn good job. Go check them out. Go to Organifi.com forward slash Mind Pump. That's O-R-G-A-N-F-I-I. Sorry, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash Mind Pump. Use the code Mind Pump. Get 20 % off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Scott from Ohio. Scott, what's happening? How you doing, Scott? What's up, Scott? We're great. How you guys doing? Good, good. How can we help you? Well, first, let me tell you that you guys are role models well beyond fitness. And I appreciate everything you do. Respect your opinions on a lot of matters. So I have a programming question.

1:08:33I turned 40 this year, and I don't really have my question in front of me. It's been a hectic day with kids not being in school for basically three days this year. Last year was like a resurrection for weightlifting with me, and I dove right into MAPS Red Advanced, and I really liked it. I saw gains all throughout, and I noticed that my appetite was way up, and I wasn't afraid to eat. So I just dove right in, just let my body just kind of tell me what it was going to do. I finished that one up and it was packaged with old time, which I jumped right into that and noticed some major imbalances from left to right.

1:09:15And those kind of corrected themselves out throughout the program. Nice. And I finished that one up and I'm not really sure where to go with my 2026 goals. turning 40 if I should maybe dial it back to maybe a 15 or if there's enough juice left in the tank to maybe approach a power lift if need be or recommend it so I'm just kind of looking at your advice of where I should go for us to just cycle back the anabolic and old time no good you seem to be in a good place so you feel good how's your sleep energy all that stuff how you feeling Sleep's pretty consistent. Go to bed between 10 and 11, get up 5 to 6.

1:09:57Energy is all the way up. I average probably about 17 ,000 steps a day, I would say. I work on my feet. I have no problem there with energy. My diet's pretty consistent. I track that for a little bit. I'd say about a pound and a half to two pounds of protein. I cook for a living, so I make 90 % of what I consume. so it's very minimal with processed foods um and like i said i'm not afraid to eat so i'm probably north of 3 000 calories um so nice what what about time in the gym are you limited on time or is your time like can you go to the gym time i get the three days three good to solid days a week and then i'm in there mostly seven days even if it's just stretching nice um kind of like on my away to work i just i make it a point to stop there just to have that consistency um so there's no limitations there you know i mean kids are with me today but we did both the gym and work so let's bring your daughters to work day all right nice dude let's do i think symmetry would be good next and then if you feel good after that go into power lift okay you used to have a uh yeah You used to have a 600-pound squat.

1:11:12So, yeah. Holy shit. When I was 19, freshman in college, I hit it pretty hard when I was young. So I started lifting probably 14 1⁄2 to 15 years old. And I would say genetically it's there. I mean, both my father and my brother, they don't even work out. They're just tanks. So kind of lost it there for a while, but, you know, life happens. Uh, so I wanted to pick it back up and kind of get back into it and kind of work on the longterm now. Yeah, dude. I like symmetry next because, uh, you're probably seeing really good strength gains. You obviously got a lot of potential 600 pounds squat at 19 places you in a special category.

1:11:55Yeah. Uh, and I would want to go symmetry before power lift because what we're looking at is injury prevention. Yeah. We want to reduce risk of injury. So the potential for, for injury, the joints. Yeah. Yeah, it goes up as you get stronger. And when you're looking at muscle memory like you, so what you're tapping into is muscle memory. You had a lot of muscle and strength before. Building it back up is a lot easier than it is the first time. And what we want to do is be careful with how hard we push in a particular direction. Symmetry is really good at building muscle, but it's even better at balancing the body out.

1:12:29It'll fortify your joints. You'll feel good. Old-time strength was perfect. I'm glad you did that. symmetry would be a great follow-up then you go into power lift and you'll be hitting some some big numbers yeah good a good rule of thumb for a guy like you uh who has a lot of like potential to be moving a lot of weight is to kind of interrupt the the power lift and anabolic type programs with a symmetry or an old-timey always so i kind of performance or performance like to always toggle back like do power lift hardcore go hard after those lifts and then come back to like a symmetry or old-timey go after anabolic advance and then come back to like a performance like kind of toggle that that'll kind of that'll that'll keep you uh from getting hurt like so somewhat like if you're my client with that much strength potential my biggest concern would be going too hard too fast in that direction uh in then in injury so as long as we toggle back and forth on that we should continue to see gains both aesthetically strength wise but then also making sure that we protect you all the way okay is there any like certain rest periods between programs or is it when one ends you can jump into another you go right into it because they take a good bridge program yes yes between now if you felt like you needed a break there's no nothing wrong with taking a week or two off so that's if you just feel a little burnt but you definitely would do that if you were running programs like power lift followed up with power lift again or power lift and followed by anabolic those programs i would probably want like a deload week from you because they are so hard in that direction but these ones going to symmetry or going to performance are going to old-timey, we'll interrupt that nicely for you.

1:14:00Awesome. Great. We'll send you Symmetry. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you, guys. You got it, man. Right on, dude. Keep it up. All right. Keep it up, too. All right, Scott. Doug, you send him a discount for Powerlift, too, because that would be a good follow-up, I think, for Symmetry. We should ask them what food he cooks. I saw him in the kitchen. I was asking what he did. Cooks? Bro, listen. You work in a kitchen. Oh, that's stress. You are moving constantly. Well, you say he's Up to 22 ,000 steps a day. Yeah. So I look at his notes. He says he's getting average 22 ,000 steps a day. So he's moving. I believe it too.

1:14:34Oh, yeah. I've been in the back. And I know because I worked in restaurants for a little bit. I know you did even more. Oh, yeah. And it's just you're on. It'd be interesting too. So when you listen to this, Scott, we didn't say it. But at one point, he did ask. And I wouldn't mind seeing what a MAPS 15 would do with someone like this. Because he's also got the ex-athlete background. It sounds like a killer at work. And so he might be surprised that scaling back on the volume and intensity might see amazing results with less work. It's worth experimenting with. It sounded like he got a good result from anabolic advance, though, which was interesting.

1:15:10And old time. What he's tapping into is muscle memory. Yeah, so that's my point. My point is a guy like that with that much potential, had that much training before and strength, you probably could have done any of our programs, and he's going to see great results. because of the muscle memory. So that's why I bring up the fact that you might want to play with a Mass 15 program too just to see. Compliment the stress. Yeah, I mean, he's moving a lot. He's doing a lot. And so maybe, you know, he does really well off of that also and surprises himself. So it's worth exploring. Our next caller is Alyssa from Michigan.

1:15:45Hi, Alyssa. How are you doing, Alyssa? Hello. Good. How are you guys? We're good. How can we help you? This is so weird seeing you guys like in person. Okay, so I'll just read my question. kind of long, so bear with me. It's kind of like a two-parter, but I am a 90s baby and grew up with processed foods and being told egg yolks are bad and carbs are bad, all of that you know. I also grew up around yo-yo dieting, ended up being overweight most of my school years. Fast forward to my 20s, I started lifting and became obsessed. I got my personal training certificate through NASM, finding my love of fitness as well.

1:16:18I counted macros to a T for a few years, but with that, I was severely under eating. I'm about 5 '7". My lowest I weighed was 125 pounds. I ego lifted a lot and ended up hurting my L4 and L5, which kind of still affects me to this day. I know how to manage it for the most part, but I do avoid barbell squats and deadlifts besides RDLs. Macro County became obsessive, so I stopped doing that and tried to eat clean. Since 2021, I gained a lot of weight from heavy drinking, being in a stressful relationship and using a busy life as a constant excuse. I got to my highest weight of 236. In 2023, I left my relationship, moved home, made a big career change, and got my life back together.

1:17:00When I started going back to the gym regularly, I was doing a class that was an all-over-body class, but I really killed myself doing it every day and ended up hurting myself. I started doing some other programming written by a trainer at the gym, which got better, but I still wasn't seeing the results I thought I should be, even though I was down 25 pounds at this point. Fast forward to today, I found your podcast at the beginning of the year and binged. The last couple months, I bought Muscle Mommy, MAPS 15, and Muscle Mommy 15. I was running Muscle Mommy at first. However, at the beginning of the year, I started a new job.

1:17:34In the last two weeks of the month, I'm usually working 12-hour days every day, sometimes 10 hours on Saturdays. I do stand during my overtime, so I'm not sitting all day, but the rest of the day I am sitting at a desk. I walk during my lunches, whether it's outside or running to the gym for 20 minutes. I'm currently running Muscle Mommy 15. When I wrote this, I was on week two, phase two, but now I'm on phase three, week two. I'm trying to get 10k steps in a day, if not more. I started semi-tracking my food again to make sure I'm hitting my protein goals. and I will say you are right it is like being on steroids actually hitting your protein goals I am hitting around 2100 calories a day roughly 160 to 175 grams of carbs 60 to 80 grams of fat and 175 to 185 grams of protein I'm eating a lot of meat now lots of eggs greek yogurt cottage cheese I'm not 100 sure on my weight but the last time I checked I was at 210 and I am getting a DEXA scan at the beginning of February.

1:18:38I'm trying to do everything the mind pump way right now. I'm not studying myself in the mirror, not constantly weighing myself, focusing on protein, even on off days, cut back on alcohol and focusing on getting stronger, which I am. I've never felt better. And I can do the most weight I've ever done in RDLs and bench press right now, which is really awesome. So I just kind of wanted to know, firstly, if I am on the right track? Am I doing enough? I'm not a busy mom. I don't have kids. I just work a lot and I'm a generally busy person. Am I eating enough? Am I eating too much? My mind is stuck in bad habits from years of body image issues and unhealthy eating habits.

1:19:19How can I continue to also move forward with feeling like I don't need to track my food? I don't want to fall back into unhealthy habits. I want to live and enjoy my life the best and healthy way possible. And my other question also is, is it okay for me to be changing barbell squats from the maps programs to other squats because of my L4 and L5 issues? I'm definitely afraid to get back under a bar and I'm wondering what I can do to build that back up eventually. Yeah. So the answer to the last question is yes, you can replace the exercises. Um, you're doing a great job. You're doing awesome. You're doing a really good job.

1:19:57Really good job. Just your awareness and how you're posing the question. I think you know what the real challenge is. I think you have a clear, I learned this phrase the other day. I'm sure people have heard it before. It was the first time I heard it, which is a problem that is clearly defined as half the solution. And I think you've clearly defined what the issue has been with exercise and nutrition and all that stuff for you. We want to, we got to stop focusing on the result. That's number one. If we focus on the result, you're going to end up where you've ended up in the past. you have to focus on the process but we have to also go even deeper which is focus on what causes the right process okay so what's going to cause the right process is a good relationship with yourself your body exercise and diet so i'll give you i'll give you one step that i think you can take to move in that direction okay i know you said you're drinking less, but I think step one would be to not drink.

1:20:59Okay. I don't think you have just based off what you said. So I'm only basing on what you said to me. I don't think your relationship with alcohol is good. And what you're trying to do is manage it. Uh, which is like, I got this abusive boyfriend. So instead of seeing him every day, I'm going to see him three days a week or something like that. Right. Still, still not good. And so the potential is there. So is that possible can you cut it out completely yes okay good i can yeah good so i'd start there i'd start there um that alone's gonna do wonders that alone's gonna do wonders because uh and now you want to find alternate ways to comfort yourself or whatever reason why you you end up drinking find uh other ways to do uh to try to accomplish that and it's gonna suck at first because alcohol is a great solution for a lot of things sometimes until it's not so you know find something else to replace that with uh the second thing is focus on your relationship to yourself and focus on enjoying the workouts for the sake of the workouts itself that's going to move you in the right direction yeah now i'm giving you this big general like answers you probably already kind of knew what i was going to say you're a perfect candidate muscle mommy group or coaching either one yeah you're a get around you should be in our muscle mommy group at least at least at best i would want you with one of our coaches you're a perfect candidate yeah uh you told us what your lifestyle looks like your responsibilities are work and yourself you would benefit so greatly from having a guide and then being able to offset some of that trust and be like okay let me just follow what you're saying let me just do what you're telling me yeah and i within six months you would make such a radical transformation uh in your relationship to all this literally literally six months yeah so i think it would be amazing yeah because i always feel like i'm questioning like and that's how it's always been you know you're doing so good you're doing so you're doing so good i just want to encourage you just the way you asked your question you're like perfect yeah you're on the right path you need somebody thank you but having the guide there through every step is going to be gold yeah because you're going to encounter a lot of this like am i doing the right thing am i going too far what do i do here should i do more should i do more that's a big question And a lot of that's going to pop up.

1:23:10Should I keep doing more? Should I push harder? Yeah. And I hear people talk about it all the time on the podcast. It always feels like you're not doing enough when you're someone who is, you know, used to overdoing it. If you, when you work with a coach that you trust, then you could just say, fine, I trust you. Yeah. I'll trust you. I'll trust you. And then eventually you don't, you don't have to try to trust them. You just start to trust the process because you see what it's like. And our coaches are, we, we, we handpick them. so they're excellent. But you'd be a great candidate for that. But Alyssa, you're totally, totally on the right track.

1:23:45Yeah. Like, you're doing phenomenal. It's going to be an awesome year. It's going to be an awesome year. Yes. I hope so, yeah. I have been feeling amazing, like the best and strongest I've ever felt. Like, yesterday I did the bench press, and I got 125 for my top two sets for all five reps. Great job. That's incredible. Yeah. Great job. So that felt really good. You've already done the hardest part. Yep. You've got the momentum. you're doing the right things you're heading you this is the you're on the hardest part already you already overcame that part that now the accountability piece and a coach who's just going to help guide you through this process just so you don't have any pitfalls you're going to be you're going to be great yeah just by the way just by the way you're asking a question and identifying you and all that stuff i'm like oh my god she's going to crush with a good coach yeah so yeah no great job yes and now the injury the l4 l5 injury can you be more specific can i have some details on that what are we talking about yeah so um gosh I don't remember the first time it happened but I was dead lifting and I literally just felt it go yeah and so my L4 and L5 like popped out of place and my sacrum twisted okay basically is how my because I went to a chiropractor and they told me you know what was going on because I couldn't even hardly walk like I to get up from a chair I had to like yeah use my hands to walk up my legs it was really bad um and so I've just kind of been relying on a chiropractor and then I kind of learned over time like you need to strengthen more of those like well back muscles and release more of your hip muscles because everything's like connected and I was told by one person you know you're really tight in your hips and it's pulling so when you're squatting down it's pulling and that's what's making it pop out and do you have like a herniated disc is there anything on imaging that you saw um there was no herniated discs or anything i do have like a um x-ray of it of where and you can see how like the two little bones are like just oh they're not in line okay this is a muscle issue this is totally fixable okay yeah no herniated discs nothing like that i've got checked a couple times that's good news that's good news yeah you you i feel pretty confident the trainer's going to give you good, our trainers and give you good mobility work for you to specifically address.

1:26:03And it sounds like a lateral and rotational stability issue. Uh, if I guess, so yeah, I I'm pretty confident you'll be able to barbell exercise again with the right correctional exercise, which would be amazing. Yeah. Cause I, I miss getting under a barbell and I want to see how strong I am, but you know, I just, I am like deathly afraid by the way, this is an awesome goal to focus on for this year. Like that is like, we can solve that. we can get to the bottom of this and help you with that. Let's focus on that. Keep doing what we're doing. Take the advice Sal said on the alcohol thing. And I think you're going to have a hell of a year.

1:26:38Yep. We're going to have a hell of a year. We'll have something to call you. Okay. All right, Alyssa. Good job. Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys. Looking forward to checking in with you. Yes. Thank you. You got it. I love, when we heard that from Scott, and by the way, I told that to my wife. She's like, you never heard that before? I've heard that a million times. It's so true. A problem well-defined is half solved. It's half solved. Half solved. So, you know, and I knew this as a trainer. You guys do too. Like when you hear someone come to you and they're like, listen, I know I have a bad relationship with this.

1:27:08I know I tend to overdo whatever. It's like I get the chills because I'm like, this is going to be great. That's the hard part. Getting a person to understand that stuff can take a lot of time. Yeah. But if they know right out the gates, it's like, let's go. You just tweak it a little bit. Our next caller is Natasha from Hawaii. Hi, Natasha. How are you doing, Natasha? Hello. Hi, guys. Wow, life comes at you quick. It's really you. Hi. How can we help you? I just want to say I've been listening to you guys for many, many years, and I've learned a lot from you. So I just wanted to start off by saying thank you very much for giving me your time this morning.

1:27:43Awesome. Thank you. Just so I don't ramble on, I'm going to just read my question. So it's related to looking like I lift. So I've been strength training for about eight plus years between three to five times a week consistently. I've used programs from you guys, Jordan Syed, Lane Norton, Mike Isretel. I've had personal nutrition and training coaches multiple times over the years. I myself got certified as a nutrition coach and personal trainer just because I love doing this stuff. so I'm confident I've been doing the most important things correctly like protein intake consistency in the gym hitting high intensities recovering appropriately and I just don't feel like I look like I lift so ultimately my question is where might I be going wrong trying to get that more defined look because even though I don't want to look like a bodybuilder I do want to look like I clearly lift weights because I do so is it just genetics is it too much body fat on a DEXA from November, I was at 28.7 % body fat.

1:28:46Is it my hormones? I am on the hormonal birth control pill. So my natural estrogen levels are pretty low on labs. So I'm just trying to figure out what more I can do, if anything, to get that more athletic look. Gotcha. Gotcha. So I don't have pictures of you, but nine out of 10 times when I have someone who works in fitness, who is telling me that they know what their protein intake, their calories, that's telling me they've been working out for eight years and they say, I don't look like I lift. 90 % of the time, it's because they don't see themselves accurately. That's 90 % of the time. Do you, let me ask you this.

1:29:26Do you think there's a greater percentage of body dysmorphia in the fitness space than there is in the average population? Yes, of course, for sure. Now, let me ask you this. Do other people think that you look like you work out? See, that's part of it too. I don't get a lot of comments. Not that I'm looking for those kinds of comments, but it's not like people say that to me often. It's more if they maybe like squeeze my arm or something, they can feel my muscles, but I don't get a lot of comments about them being able to just visibly see my muscles. Yeah, but if I were to ask somebody that knows you and I said, hey, does Natasha look like she'd work out?

1:30:01What do you think they would say? I honestly don't know. Really? I honestly don't know. And I'm not sure. Okay. But I just, I feel like there's just certain areas on my body that aren't developing the way I would think they would after all my training. Good. We're getting more specific. What areas? What areas are we talking about? Delts, glutes, even my biceps a little bit. I'm a strange girl. I like upper body lifts. I like, I would prefer to have bigger delts and biceps. I'm not as, the legs, I mean, sure, I would like great glutes. No, of course, but it's not as important to me. I prefer that my arms look more defined.

1:30:43Okay. I'm glad you're getting more specific because sometimes when someone says I don't look like I lift and then they start to say, well, here's the areas that I'd like to work on. We're getting a little bit more specific. And you do, you have followed our programs and all that. And you got your body fat test that you said you're at what? 28? 28.7. Okay. So typically if you were to drop like two or 3%, you'd probably be really satisfied. and there's two ways to do that. One is obviously calorie deficit. The other is to build a little bit of muscle. What are your calories? How are they now? What does your activity look like and what are your calories at now?

1:31:17So I'm basically maintaining right now at about 2 ,200. So not super high as far as maintenance, but my protein is about 140 grams a day, my average. That's good. When's the last time you did a reverse diet? I did one about a year ago. I was in a reverse diet study with Bill Campbell. So I did that about a year ago. But now I'm kind of hovering around 10 to 15 pounds more than my most comfortable weight. So I haven't wanted to do that at this time. What was your experience with the reverse diet? it? I was pretty good. I lost about nine pounds and then they reverse dieted me up, but I, my calories never got very high to be honest.

1:32:04I think they maxed me out at about 2 ,400 before I started putting back on some pounds. Okay. What's your activity level throughout the day? Do you track your steps? Do you know how much you're moving? I do. Yeah. I average about 10 ,000 steps a day. I lift four times a week and then every Sunday I try to do like a three mile run just for cardio. Oh, you move. You sound fit. Yeah. We need to, we need to, we definitely need to increase calories and we need a reverse diet for sure. That's a lot of activity, uh, for that low of calories for someone who's lifting that consistently and also moving that many steps and then also running.

1:32:39So we, we should be able to get your calories up and reverse diet. I think that's, uh, would probably be the greatest challenge right now is coaching you through the process of like increasing, knowing that maybe the scale might go up a little bit and you're in and mess with your head a little bit. But that's what we need to do is to build some muscle right now to build that metabolism, to then take you back down to your 2 ,200 calories and you actually lean out from that. Because we don't have a lot of runway at 22 and all the activity you're doing. Yeah, where would we end up? Yeah, I mean, I could drop you down to 1 ,900 calories and you could lose a couple pounds and maybe a little, but maybe a percent of body fat.

1:33:16But then you're eating 1 ,900 calories, you're doing all that activity and you're not going to like the way you feel. so the move is to reverse diet focus on getting strong don't weigh yourself and mess let yourself get in your own way um and i mean if this is you obviously have the knowledge and the experience and so um you know i don't know if you're listening to the show right now and i'm coaching corinne who is a brilliant trainer has knows all she knows more than me but i'm coaching her okay And it's not because she doesn't know what to do. It's for that accountability piece to help her stay out of her own head.

1:33:55And we're doing the same thing. I'm reverse dieting her right now. And I've got her at calories she's never seen before. And she's constantly texting me how she feels. And I'm saying, you're doing a great job. You look great. We're doing good. Keep going. And she knows that if she didn't have me saying that, she would go back the other direction. If you think you're somebody like that and you know that about yourself, you would probably get a lot of benefit from having an outside person taking you through that reverse diet and just reminding you you're doing a great job because that's what we need to do.

1:34:25I would want to get, if you were my client, I'd want to get you all the way up to like 2 ,800 calories. And then I'd want to stair step you down and we would lean out into the low 20, 20 percentile body fat or wherever you want to stop at. But going from a cut right now where you're at is just, it's not sustainable and you won't be happy. And you're active. And how do you feel with your activity do you feel healthy strong stamina good mobility good yeah i feel great honestly i have great energy and i sleep really well like everything is super good like i feel great i just wish that that i looked more tone that's it you know as you move in your arm and i see your arm i could 100 tell you work out yeah just from on so here's the deal uh i would do a reverse diet i would switch you to a different program with way less volume uh because you're probably so consistent that I bet you benefit from reduced volume.

1:35:15I think maps 15 might be your go. I think there'd be a great program for you to go into, which would be really scary for someone like you because you've been working out for so long. You'll know it's working if you get stronger, by the way, if you do mass 15 and your lifts start going up, like keep going. So also do you have that pro? Can I send that to you? That'd be great. I don't have that one. I'm going to send that to you. And I think you should bump your cowl. If you want to slowly do it that's fine bump up 100 i don't care but let's go maps 15 and let's slowly get your calories up and then just see how strong you get and i bet you'd be surprised just remember what i said about the the part that like why corinne's got me too it's not it's not a lack of you don't you don't strike me as a person who has a lack of knowledge in this uh but like her know that you can get in your own way and i agree completely okay are you opening to working with a coach again yeah i'm always open to working with coaches i just yeah i i just finished working with a strength coach so i'm kind of deciding where to go after that but trust me being able to eat 2 800 calories and not gain a ton of weight that's like the dream like i would love that you could get there you absolutely get there you are more than active enough to get there totally tell me about your lifts how strong are you see that's that's the other thing i i feel like i have like a high floor but a low ceiling because even with my strength i feel like i should be stronger after all these years but my my one rep max on bench is 135 my deadlift is 235 my squad is 200 those are great numbers yeah are you comparing yourself to like a power lifter come on like i said i i know i know i am stronger than the average 41 year old woman like i know that I just feel like I could be stronger.

1:37:07I've just, I mean, I've been doing this for a long time and I can't believe I can't hit higher numbers than that. Natasha, you're 41? I am. You look great. I could tell on your arms. When you're next to other 41 year old women, how different do you look? I don't, I mean, I don't know. Stop it. I mean, I have more muscle mass in them. I will say that. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. Listen, your calories are too low, hon. Yeah. For sure. And look, you can get your hormones tested if you want to see if that makes a difference. I know you said you're on birth control. 41, if you're open to hormone replacement therapy that sometimes makes a big difference with women, especially supplemental testosterone.

1:37:50So you could also look in that direction. That can make a big difference sometimes. It can make a huge difference. But I'll have a coach call you, but I'm also going to send you Mass 15 and reverse diet. That's what I would do. If I was training you, that's exactly what I would do. Okay. Well, I trust you guys. I really appreciate all the advice. I will listen. And thank you very much for the program. And your delts look good through your shirt. You got crazy standards. I like you guys more than ever now. You're doing great. But I also understand what you're asking. Yeah, I do. And it's a fair question.

1:38:24You're putting all the work in. And if I was coaching you, we would do it. But what we're saying is how you do it. It's what it is. You're not feeding yourself enough. Yes. You are very active. that much training that much steps and that much movement for that low of calories for someone who's at that strong too so which tells me you you're moving weight in the gym so you have a high volume you have a lot of volume you're doing uh you you are definitely not eating enough and we got to get we got to slowly get it up to that and the ways to do that is to cut back on the volume by going to like a maps 15 slowly increase get rid of the scale because it's going to fuck with your head okay so and this is the coaching part that i where i like i would urge you to do that just for that reason not because you don't know but because i i like i have to talk to coran every week you're doing great yes i i know you feel that way i know yeah but you're doing perfect i like what i see i like where we're going that's it that's literally like i'm not breaking any studies down to her i'm not getting like it's just me reminding her she's doing a great job that's that will be coaching you right now and so uh just consider that or if you don't do it on your own like we're saying consider that because i think that's all that you're missing to unlock that if you want to get down to 21 22 body fat see separation you've got plenty of muscle it's it's that leaning out a little bit and we're not in a place calorie wise to cut to lean out that's just that's where you're at right now so we can get there yep okay sounds good all right thanks for calling in of course yeah that's it's so tough uh god fitness people the hardest with this man say i don't look like i work out everybody else is like you look like you're working out yeah uh And it's just the standard.

1:39:59And I get this. Like, the other day, I'll just, this is straight. That's how I felt. Adam sends us a video of this dude. Bench, what is it? Did he get up to four plates? Yes. He did a four plate, benched four plate, brought it down, sits up with it, and then lays back down and does it again. Now, I've been working out since I was 14 years old. Why aren't you comparing yourself to yourself? Very easily, I could look at it and go, I don't feel like I work out. It's like, come on, what are you comparing yourself to? But yeah, calories, you got to feed the machine. Otherwise, it's going to be limited.

1:40:28it's just not going to go any further that really sounds like i mean this is it she's at 10 000 steps a day she also told us too that she was also running on top of that yeah she's got lifts she's fit okay you don't have like you don't you don't have to just be uh people think sometimes volume like oh super set lots of exercises seven days a week like if she's moving 200 pound squats and 135 pound bench press she's got decent volume in her workout so she's the weight makes the adds up yes and so she is and she's training four days a week so she's doing a lot and at 2200 2200 calories and she and she's at 28 body fat it totally it's totally fair for her even though she looks great doing great all things to say hey i i man for everything i do i should be 21 body fat and that's totally reasonable but the pathway to get there is is related to nutrition it's not her programming it's not that here's first off a woman that could bench press 135 pounds is in the 1 % of strength.

1:41:27That is not common. I've trained a lot of people. It's impressive. It's uncommon. If I see any woman benching the big wheels. And over 200 pounds in squats and deadlifts is incredible. Yeah, 235 deadlifts, she said. So she's doing phenomenal. Here's the other thing. A woman with muscle at 28 % body fat almost always looks amazing. I know we say that most women are happy in the between 20-25%, but if you're strong and you've got muscle and you're up to 28%, you know what you look like you look like you got nice curves well it also don't hey don't don't forget this too i every client ever had that was on birth control they come off they look like they lose two to three pounds of water she's also 41 so there could be you know uh hormone replacement therapy could definitely make a difference a little bit of testosterone makes a big difference oftentimes so that could also make a difference but you know like what i've seen i've i know i've worked with women who who are in the high 20s body fat but we're also strong they just look amazing yeah you know no our next caller is ava from missouri ava how you doing ava how are you hello hey how's it going good uh so it's eva i don't i usually don't correct people but i've followed you guys for years it's pretty crazy to be sitting here talking to you nice to meet you how can we help you you too um happy belated birthday justin if i don't forget we did we forgot all right it's no president yeah i don't i don't announce it so yeah birthdays are just they're overrated yeah um for sure all right i'm gonna jump into this so i'm i'm five nine about 146 pounds um 51 years old i've lost 125 ish pounds and kept it off about five years now.

1:43:10I had labrum and bicep surgery eight months ago. Lost a ton of muscle. I'm trying to rebuild that. I love, so I do a lot of backpacking when I can. I love the TRX concept too. I average about 6 ,000 steps a day. I'm trying to up that, but like it's hard with my job. So, see, I have MAPS Starter, MAPS 15, MAPS 1540+. I try to hit my protein target. Like, that's big for me. I take fish oil, creatine, the Legion gummies, magnesium citrate, vitamin D3, biotin, tart cherry gummies. And I just got my first seeds order yesterday in the mail. So, I'm excited for that. Yeah. So, you know, my big goal is long-term health.

1:44:02I want to stay healthy, protect my joints, and be able to hike and chase grandkids around someday, hopefully. I just really would love your advice on what I should be focusing on. I tend to like information overload, so I've stopped following everybody but you guys and like Lane Norton. Man, it's crazy. I've drank so many jugs of Kool-Aid over the years. Keto games, street parking, rip-a-toe. I've done it all. So I'm just like, I need these guys that just like set me straight. I love it. You actually look incredibly healthy and sound, sound very healthy. You did a great job. How did you lose all that weight?

1:44:42What'd you do? Man. Well, a big calorie deficit, which looking back, I'm like, I knew better. You know, I went, I spent thousands of dollars being like a primal health coach fell for that. And, uh, not to coach people just because like, I love information. and I just love learning stuff. So a calorie deficit, which I knew better, and just like a ton of backpacking. But I lost a lot of muscle because I wasn't hitting my protein because I had to keep my calories so low, you know? It's just... Yeah. Well, good job. Super mistakes. Well, good job. You're in a good place. Thank you. Yeah. And how often are you backpacking now?

1:45:23When I can, every other weekend, but like I hike every week. Okay. And how long are your hikes and how often? Uh, 10 miles, maybe 12 miles, something like that. Uh, when I backpack, it's usually like, uh, 40 plus miles. Pretty, pretty hard, pretty strenuous Ozark mountains. Um, yeah, I have a gym in my basement that, you know, I have a squat rack, TRX, treadmill, Oh, you're good. Listen. Okay. So every other week you do the hiking when you can, which is the 40 mile one. and then every week you're backpacking, which is like you said, like 10 miles. And that's like once, right? Once that week? Yeah, I try.

1:46:04Not every week. I try. I try. So you're going to live in the MAPS 15 protocol. That's your programs always. And we have enough of them where you just cycle through them. Just compliments it will. That's your strength training. Hit your protein targets and enjoy your hikes. And I would say the only place that would change anything is on those weeks where you're not getting those hikes, try to get your steps up. Yep. Yeah. Just get your steps up throughout the day. Or your treadmill. Get a little incline hike on the treadmill if you have to. That's it. And don't overthink. Don't get the treadmill.

1:46:36I imagine you do. Especially somebody who likes to do it outside. And don't overthink anything. We have now, we have MAPS 15 Muscle Mommy, MAPS 15 Power Lift, the original MAPS 15. We have MAPS 15 Performance, Symmetry, Strong. Those are your programs. Just cycle through them. That's it. Don't overthink it. Just cycle through. That's your strength training. and the rest of the stuff you do just go have fun hit your protein targets and you're good you're good okay i have a question for you uh as far as like the concept too i really like that um it's just so the treadmill is just so boring to me but i do i throw on my backpack that i that i go backpacking with and it's got about 20 pounds in it 15 to 20 pounds um and i'll get on the treadmill with that but on the days that like can i substitute some of the mileage you know my steps daily steps with the concept too like how would i i guess with meters or yeah that's fine just time okay you just do it for time uh and and because we're talking about steps it's a low intensity so if the intensity goes up then the time is going to go down right so if you're like okay if i were to do 4 000 steps that would be like a 45 minute walk then i'll do a 45 minute low intensity concept too but if it's high intensity you're looking at 15 15 20 minutes okay yeah okay and uh one more quick question if i can yeah um so i have a lot of food noise still from being you know i've always been heavy i yo-yo dieted i fell for the whole you know health at every size thing like i even that i'm like i'm gonna be fat and happy um it got me all right but um so i was thinking about microdosing with uh like trisepitide just just for the food noise i heard like that can be beneficial what's your yeah we've had experts on the show that have talked about uh the benefits of doing those things it is it is a medication yeah uh and some people especially when they're healthy are very sensitive to it very so even a microdose for some people just shuts down yeah where we were do you have any idea where your calories are at right now uh it's a slippery slope when i try to track but um i i probably too low they're probably about 1800 oh no yeah yeah so that's the reason why i ask because that you're you're not someone who i think would be a candidate for that um i wouldn't want yeah you know why because what what can happen even on a microdose so i don't know if you remember when i went through the whole process and and shared my whole journey like even a microdose would would tamp my calories down a lot and if you're only if you're at 1800 and it tamps it down even the slightest bit putting you down in the 15 1600 calories with the amount of activity you're doing i'd want you eating more calories Do you know why you have food noise right now?

1:49:17You know, I really don't. I've just always been overweight. I know why you have food noise. Your calories are too low. Yeah, you're hungry. Oh, probably. If you're hiking 40 miles every other week and then every other week 10, plus you're lifting, 1 ,800 calories is low. That's why you have food noise. Yep. You got to eat more. What should I be at? I would bump you up to two to start with, and you're probably going to end up in the low to mid 2000s with that activity. And you can do it controlled and slow, just if you're afraid, but bump it up. And what you'll notice is you're stronger. You're just going to be stronger when you work out and have more energy.

1:49:55Okay. But 1 ,800 calories is too low. Yeah, you're low. Yeah, I'll take that. Didn't you say you're 5 '9", too? Is that what you said, 5 '9"? Yes, yes, 5 '9". Yeah, you're tall, too. He's tall, yeah. Yeah, you're not a little tiny, tiny little thing. No, I'm not. you definitely need more calories. And that's what you hear right now is your body trying to tell you, like, hey, feed me. We're doing a lot of shit. By the way, you know, with a lot of activity and calories that are not sufficient, you also run the risk of things like osteopenia. And you'll see some people that strength train even because their calories are just not sufficient.

1:50:28So yeah, feed yourself a little bit. You know, if you don't want to track what it can look like is when you feel hungry, have a high protein meal that's whole foods. that you go for okay so oh my god where's that i got that food noise again but you've got a pre-made 300 calorie or 200 calorie high protein meal eat that yeah yeah i try to do that i try but i think you're just probably afraid of food because of all the weight that you had lost for sure yeah for sure i get it i get it but yeah but you need to feel though you need to feel because sal's right you're not you're active you're active yeah i know i know we're talking some days where you're not getting six up but if someone who hikes as long as you hike and move in your height you need to be up there mid 2000s is where I'd want to get you up to and you have maps 15 Doug said you have maps 15 and maps 15 40 plus let me send you another one so let's see which one should we send 15 performance yeah because of the hiking I'm going to send you maps 15 performance okay thank you I appreciate that you got it keep us posted I'd like to hear how this journey goes for you start reversing those calories up a little bit I'll do that thank you guys alright see ya yeah once she said her calorie i'm glad you asked yeah that's really for her activity strength training i mean i can see it on her she she looks she actually looks pretty healthy i mean really healthy and lean and i knew i remember hearing her say five nine so she's tall yeah and that's a lot of activity and like and then saying you need truceps i mean you don't look like someone who needs truceps and and then when she said the cow oh god no definitely no yeah that's not food noise that's just that's your hunger that's your body's like we just did a fucking 40 mile hike I need about 8 ,000 calories my calories are low I got a lot of food noise think about that a 40 mile hike I mean I'm just trying to in my head do some quick back in the napkin math the amount of calories just to support the hike alone to the next day too even a 10 mile hike 40 miles that's substantial that's a long hike how long are you hiking?

1:52:30that's an all day hike right? it might even be 2 days Give me a two-day hike. That's a two-day hike, bro. You're hiking a lot for two days. Yeah, you're talking about your body needing like 10 ,000, 20 ,000 calories. Yeah. Like that it just needs to do the thing you just did. Which means you got to have body fat. And then you go right to eating 1 ,800, your body's going like, yo, we're way behind. Help me out. Yeah. So is that what – are you doing – did you look it up? I mean, I just know people who hike. Oh, you probably chat to me real quick. Well, bro, walking a marathon would take you seven hours, six – I mean, so, and that's a marathon.

1:53:05That's walking flat surface. Hiking? Yeah, that's two days. She's hiking in and getting there late, camping, and then hiking. And only eating 1 ,800 calories. Way low. Yeah, way low. So, way, way low. That's why I'm like, wait a second. She's beyond low. Yeah, two to four days. Oh, my God. 20 miles per day. Oh, my God. Yeah, dude. She needs to be mid to high 2000s. Consistently. Consistently. Yeah. Yeah, big time. That's what's going on right now. Oh, yeah. And our poor body. That's not food noise. That is like, we're starving. Yeah, help us out. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram.

1:53:41We'll see you. It's at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic, Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

1:54:24The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com If you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a 5 star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family We thank you for your support and until next time this is Mind Pump