2793: How to Calculate Volume and Progressively Overload for MAX GAINS

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2:02I'm talking right Right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Almost nothing is more confusing to people, just based off of how they actually try to do this, than training volume. Look, we all know progressive overload is the closest connection to muscle growth. Of all the things that correlate to muscle growth, strength and the pump and all this other stuff, volume or progressive overload is the strongest correlate. The problem is everybody messes this up. They do it too much or not enough. They don't know how to calculate it right. We're going to talk about this right now.

2:37Volume, what is it? How do you calculate it? And how do you effectively, progressively overload to get your body to consistently progress? Crank up the volume. Yeah. Yeah. You, Adam, are probably, I heard people communicate this before, but I had personally never gotten as granular with my total volume and trying to progressively overload that way. I'd never gotten as granular as you did. I mean, you took competing, you treated it like a business. It wasn't like a fun hobby. You know, I think people listen to podcasts long enough. They know that you did it specifically with the intent of building a business.

3:16And so you were like you are with all business. You look at the data, the metrics, and you figured this out. And so I'd love for you to talk about what you learned because this wasn't like you were a newbie you'd already been a trainer you've been working out for years and then you got into this and then you learned a few things yeah i have i have a similar opinion around it similar to like somebody who might say like um oh i don't ever really want to track macros or i don't want to do that but then they are like but i really want to get down to this percent body fat or i really want to look this way, I think tracking volume can give you that level of insight if you've never done it before.

3:56I think you could absolutely never track volume and be a very healthy, fit person. Totally fine. Did that for most of my training career. Everybody in here would probably attest to the same thing. But what I found at that point, because I was doing something competitively and knowing that information I know gave me a competitive edge was the only reason why I cared enough to go to that level of it right and I don't know if that speaks to my my business side like you alluded to or more of my competitive side I don't think you cared about winning you just cared about making it being able to build a business out of it yeah yeah well that was the ultimate desired outcome and so winning helped yeah and I obviously if I if the way I thought about it was if I go do this and I don't do very good at it, who's going to want to follow me or pay attention to my business?

4:49So I better go do good. But one of the first big insights for me was, and I feel like this is the same with macros. Why I used to love to have somebody who said, oh, I don't really want to track macros. Let's just do it for 30 days and just so we can see, is it's just the insight that I got. And so I knew what volume was. I knew how to calculate it. Never cared enough to really do it. And what I realized is we have this kind of natural ebb and flow, very similar to how we eat, where we kind of find this homeostasis of our calories. We think we're on a diet and we're doing so good, but then when we actually track it, it's like, oh, these extra calories sneak in and you have these higher days and then you have these lower days.

5:32But then when you look at the average over an entire 30 days, you're actually here when you thought you were like here. Volume was like that. You know, you have your weeks where you're like, oh, yeah, I'm feeling it. And you're strong and you're hitting it consistently. You don't miss and feel like weight's moving on the bar. Then you have other weeks where you're just like going through the motions. You don't really feel it. And then when I would pull back and I would look at 30 days, I'd go, oh, wow, I'm really not. not only am I not progressively overloading when I thought I was, when I looked at the 30 days, I actually ended up, the last week I was doing less volume than I was doing the first week.

6:09You know, and so. Is that because you would overshoot out of the volume? Yes, yes. Because you're guessing. So what would happen sometimes is I, you know, really press the volume. Yeah, because you feel good. Because I feel good, over-trained a little bit, then my next time coming back around to that exercise, I'd have to scale back because I'm still sore, I'm still recovering, and I overshot the last one. And so what would end up happening is I was like, oh my God, it's like this. And then at the end of the 30 days, I'm lifting the same amount of volume as I was at the very beginning. And so I was like, wow, okay, I need to have a way more methodical approach to how I scale the volume.

6:46And it's a lot of what we communicate on this podcast, which, and also where the goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most change. It's like I knew that as long as I was staying where I did last week and I just did a little bit more, you know, a five pound plate more or one more set, you know, that each week that I was progressively overloading the body. And that what that did was had this nice, consistent, progressive overload versus this peaks and valleys. And then when you pull back this, like say I was doing the same shit three months later, you know, who's really who really. figure this out first in the strength world were the Olympic lifters.

7:29They had to. They did. It either works or it doesn't. That's what I love about it. Yeah, and I pointed to them before, and it's just because it's the most scientific, it's the most studied from a scientific perspective strength training. And it's only because countries compete against each other in the Olympics and during the Cold War, it was like this was a way to display our superiority. So you had the Soviet Union, you had the US, you had Europe, and it was like, we're going to put our best athletes out there. And if we have more medals, then that means, you know, communism is better or capitalism is better.

8:02And the Soviet Union, you know, here in the U.S., we don't like federally fund the athletes. Like the Soviet Union, they were like, they put their best scientists on this. They're like, no, we want the best athletes. We want a display to the world. And they literally studied strength training from an Olympic lifting perspective. And what you had in the early days, like in the fifties and sixties, when you really started seeing them take off, the way that our lifters trained was they just kind of pushed it. It was like linear progression. They just kind of pushed it all the time. And it was like, can I do more?

8:34Let's do more. Oh, I need to do less because I'm tired. I'll do less. The Soviets were methodical and they really had this kind of like, whether you felt good or not, here's what we're doing. And they ended up doing phenomenally well. And it's because they calculated this all. They weren't just going into it based off the field, Which, by the way, based off the field is okay. But when you really want to take it to the next level, that's why you got so granular. Well, this was my inspiration, Sal, was exactly that. And this is kind of what I focused on. Because it can get really crazy if you try.

9:04Because the next question that gets asked when people ask how I did this, well, how do you calculate buys and tries? Because you also do that. I actually just focused on the main lifts. Because you need controls. Exactly. Because I knew those were my biggest bang for my buck type of movements. They were the most taxing exercise for my movement. They're also where I was going to – the biggest levers I could move for strength and adding muscle to my body. And so I really was like overhead press, bench press, the deadlift. Squat. Squat, the rope. So these big movers. And like a power lifter or an Olympic lifter would do, I would train at this kind of like moderate intensity for most of the week.

9:45and then I'd have my one day of that week where it's like, this is where I'm gonna stretch that exercise. And I know what I did the last time I did it. And so can I get another set or can I get another 10 pounds on the bar on that exercise? And can I do that week over week leading up into a show? Right, so here's how you figure out volume. This is the formula. It's not perfect, like Adam said, because you have crossover volume and overhead press is gonna add some volume to the triceps. A bench press is going to add volume to both the shoulders and the triceps, even though it's a chest exercise.

10:18It's also not perfect because when the reps get real high, it kind of skews the volume in another direction. So here's the formula. It's sets times reps times weight. So generally speaking, this is the volume formula. And so the way you explained it to me the first time made so much sense. So when I would increase volume, I would only look at sets. I didn't look at if I got stronger. It didn't count as a set. It was all set in reps. I didn't count reps either. It was just sets. But the reality is if I did three sets of bench press with 225 pounds last week, this week I did three sets of bench press with 230 pounds, my volume went up.

10:59Oh, yeah. Adding another set is now adding too much volume. Yeah, yeah. No, I watched poundage. It was total poundage in that lift per week. That's the formula. Sets times reps times. So if you add one rep to one set, so here's how you would apply this. If your volume goes up at all, you're good. So if you add one rep, good. If I add one set, fine. If I added a little bit of weight, good. That means your volume went up. And I like this because I think the mistake people make with increasing volume is they go as much as they can tolerate, which typically looks like more sets, more weight, and more reps.

11:37which results in your following week naturally pulling back down and then you average and that is what i learned that i thought was that i was so like i love when we have moments in our when we and we share these as much as we can on the podcast that were like paradigm shattering moments for each of us this was a paradigm shattering moment for a guy who'd already been lifting for 15 years thought he knew a lot about what he was doing decided i've never really tracked volume let's track this let's get to the poundage on it and go oh shit look what i'm doing you know this week i do six thousand pounds of whatever you know and then next week i do four because i was taxed from that and then i go back up to six and then when i look at i'm averaging five the whole time yeah so what it started to look like was this more like what i actually would the goal i would give myself is i just didn't want to go backwards so oh okay like and i didn't want to overdo it so when i was starting a new routine so either progressing or staying the same that's right so you just don't go backwards like so can i just and and what would it would allow me to progress is one of those that time when i hit that lift and i felt good i was like oh i'm feeling good i'm gonna and then it was just a little bit it wasn't like i'm gonna do as much as i could tolerate it's like oh i'm feeling good today today's the day i'm gonna add an you know extra whatever to my my deadlift today or other today's the day i'm gonna add that extra rep or set you know and i like that you you actually fixed a question that i had because uh because of the crossover volume and it gets really it can get really crazy you're counting the big lifts yeah which you typically do first on the workout anyway yeah because you get you can get really yeah because like do you count like okay here's the problem does three sets of pec deck is the same as three sets of a bench press no or three sets of laterals the same as three sets of it so you can't really count even if the weight is different because people say oh yeah we'll use less weight or whatever okay well then what i do 10 sets of lateral raises is equal and it gets really weird i'll give you my my again my uh nutrition analogy it's like tracking macros versus getting all the way into the minutiae of micronutrients yeah it's like well yeah there's obviously there's more to than just protein carbs and fats but the protein carbs and fats is that if you get that really dialed in you can really move the needle in the right direction as far as your track like four main lifts yes a week sets times reps and to be and to be even more transparent with how I did it, and this is just my person, was I cared actually most about the thing that I was really trying to improve for the next show.

13:58So if I got a fee, so if I was like... Great point. So if I was like... Because you try to bump volume on everything. That's right. So I'm not... Too much. Exactly. So I'm only really watching the main lifts, but if I was like, you know what, I really need to bring my legs up. So I'm not also pushing chest like crazy, shoulders like crazy. I'm really just, I'm paying attention to the volume in those legs. I'm paying attention to all the volume, and I don't want to go backwards on my other things, but I need to know that if I'm ramping up the leg volume, that, hey, I might take it easy on one of my strengths in one of my other lifts or whatever, or scale back.

14:32And so I would, so someone else is not training for a show. It would look like training blocks. It's like, okay, the next month or two, my focus or emphasis is shoulders, so that's really where I'm going to put the energy on trying to scale the volume week over week. and so that's what it would look like and then other shows it would be like oh this is bad i'm going to bring up my back what a great point because it's not just how much volume a body part can handle it's cumulative for the whole body like if i progress in my volume for squats that's going to take away from my ability to recover from the rest of the body or at least contribute to it so if i try to progressively overload my bench press my row my squats my overhead press every week week over week too much at once so you're gonna i'm gonna go backwards you're gonna watch me do this with kren right now so one of the first things i did was i i stripped her down to the very bare bones kind of lifts which was like you know she's like oh my god you're taking all my volume and all my subway to tear those away from right i had to like tear it away from her and she's constantly asking me can i do more can i say no this is where i want and now what i will do with her as we're in this bulk and i that i've stripped it down to just this kind of bare bones type of routine, I will look at her physique while we're building and go like, I want more of this on her.

15:48I want more shoulders or I want more glute hamstring, whatever it may be. And then that now becomes the thing I really pay attention to in her training. And that will be where I push her volume wise. And I'll go, all right, you want more? This is what I'll let you, this is what you can do more of now. And we're hitting, she's hitting PRs every week right now. So I don't have to really mess with anything, but eventually we'll get to a point where she'll adapt we'll hit it we'll kind of hit our calorie maintenance where i think we are and so like that i don't know if you guys know we're i mean we we're at 2600 calories right now so we started oh yeah we started this at 2000 calories and a stretch for her to hit 21 22 that's great so we're at 2600 calories right now and less volume in training and i'm glad you said that because while you're scaling your volume up you should not simultaneously be cutting your calories right that's a terrible time to progressively overload yeah so like when adam competed this was happening the off season you were not doing this pre-contact no see okay now the opposite happens when i this was another thing that i thought was like a super hack for me or my competitive edge to my peers was i would watch these guys as they get closer to show time start ramping up volume and intensity they'd be sweating more in their workouts and pushing it really hard while their calories yeah while they're in this cut like in their head like like their idea was like i'm sharpening up getting ready for show and i'm like you saw me back off i was just like okay i just needed i needed to intensity would start to way scale back i'm not pushing hard on the cardio i'm walking i'm like because i know right now i'm trying to preserve all the muscle i'm already sending this signal on my body's not getting enough calories so i want to just to just conveniently utilize fat as its main energy source or one of the main energy sources because it's not getting a lot of glucose the last thing i want to do is ramp intense a new level of intensity when i'm also cutting calories my body's gonna be like we got not only are we not going to build muscle we're going to need to use some of this shit in other words if you're going to tackle this uh do it in a calorie surplus yes don't do it in a deficit because you're you're you're simultaneously increasing the recovering adaptation demands on the body while simultaneously reducing the nutrient intake which is a recipe for over training it's a recipe for disaster totally if you want it if you want to flatline and plateau or hurt yourself then do that but if you want to progressively overload you also need to increase your calories otherwise you got nothing to build off of and what's the what's the method is it was it the russians who did the the two and a half pound thing first who's who's what do you mean you remember all the little added yeah plates yeah they would do that yeah and that's just another example of like a little magnet it's just a little magnet two and a half pounds like everything else stays the same just two and a half pound and they would even add half a pound and how strong that you get over that time and so you what i the biggest takeaway if you from this whole discussion that we've had right now hopefully that people get is that what we tend to do uh is when we feel good we overreach yeah and then when we overreach we end up we our bodies tell us we have to scale back to next week and many times people have this experience oh man i just had a that's a real discipline yeah to not do that it's hard to do that when you're like oh i'm feeling good it's just like oh i'm just going to do a little more of what i need to and then and then hang tight there and then see if i can keep building on that versus man i feel so good and just hammering it when you feel good and then now i don't feel so good i back off and then when you look at when you back out 30 days you stay the same well i see like such a common issue a lot of strength athletes i used to work with and you'd you'd ride it up and you'd structure their volume and they would go deliberately by the numbers not listening to their body their fatigue their you know overexerting and then the next week just staying there they're always trying to progress every day every week every workout when in fact the right move a lot of times is to just stay there or scale back a little that's right so that was always my approach my goal was always like don't go backwards because i realized i did these peaks and valleys i go oh man instead of me really always thinking about oh i feel good pushing it how about i just i'm feeling good right now next week let's not go backwards yeah and hey if i feel even better next week than i did this week maybe i'll add just a tiny bit or just stay the same so it was like stay the same or just a little bit every single week versus this attitude of like oh i feel good let's go get it which we're all guilty of especially in the competitive space it's also important to control your intensity because uh You want to maintain the same level of intensity.

20:18So if I do the same volume this week as I did last week, but this week I go to failure, it's actually different. It's a different volume. Right, so set the intensity gauge. Usually it's two reps short of failure. Control that so then sets, reps, and weight are consistent. Otherwise, if the intensity goes up and down, then volume doesn't really make – then it's hard to calculate the volume appropriately because, well, my intensity changed with the whole thing. keep the calories up and then again just so i just so people understand this with this formula essentially i know it's not perfect so before i get the science nerds on here oh well this listen it's not i know it's not perfect perfect but it's just it's it's as close as something as you can use and calculate to track and follow as you can get when it comes to strength training okay so as long as you keep the exercises the same the intensity the same bump your calorie intake sets times reps times weight is a nice metric to follow so long as you stay within the rep ranges that are considered muscle building once they get too high it's crazy like one set of 100 reps of a bench press uh could look really weird on a volume uh calculation yeah but nonetheless just to give you guys an illustration if you did bench press five sets six reps at a certain intensity versus three sets at 10 reps at the same intensity you have the same volume or similar volume the weight may actually make a difference you got to calculate it out It's not just adding sets.

21:43But I love this because just like you said, Adam, people, they don't realize they're constantly going forward and back, forward and back, forward and back. And then they don't realize why they're not progressing. And it's because training is a formula. It's scientific. Well, listen, I mean, I love when I forget who I can credit to who I heard to communicate this. There's a difference between exercise and training. exercise is going into the gym and just doing a bunch of movements that are good for your body and stuff like that training is you have a goal in mind that you're you're going after and you are methodically training towards that meaning i am i everything i do in here is with the intent of i'm trying to build more muscle or build more strength or change my physique and if we're training then this is such a valuable tool to at least peer into maybe you don't become so i got like yeah i don't i don't track volume all the time just like i don't track macros all the time but there i i think there's tremendous value of having done that so you can at least see your tendencies and go like oh wow i am what's the trends yeah i am somebody who does i didn't realize it because i and because what it just like the macro tracking i mean we know all the studies that show just by becoming aware of it people automatically start to lose weight some of that just because they're and i feel like the same thing happens with the the tracking volume is you all of a sudden become aware of like, oh, in my head, I haven't missed a day in the gym and so I should be perfect at progressing.

23:11But then when I look at what I've been doing, it's just like, oh, I've been over-training and then under-training, over-training and under-training. And then when it ends, okay, it's the same. It's like, oh, no wonder I'm not changing. All right, I want to talk about supplements here for a second because I was talking to Doug earlier and he's been using fish roe from Paleo Valley instead of fish oil. What's the difference? Fish roes are fish eggs. And so fish oil is literally they take the oil from fish, extract it, and it's just that. Fish roe, the eggs are very high in omega-3 fatty acids, very high in DHA, which is a fatty acid that's good for the brain.

23:45But it also is full of nutrients. It's a complete food. So we're not just taking the oil. We're actually taking a complete food. So it's a food supplement. So what they have is they have freeze-dried fish roe in capsule form. So rather than taking the oil out and extracting it, it's like, here's a complete. So I imagine it has more benefits because it has more things, but then because it's not being extracted, it's a smaller concentration of vitamin D. That's right. Or no, no. Or I mean omega-3. Yes, yes. So it's a good thing to combine. But people have really rediscovered the value of eating organ meats and foods that are very nutrient-dense.

24:27fish roe is up there my wife would eat a teaspoon of fish roe uh almost daily when she was pregnant because now she did it the gangster way she would eat the fish roe that's gnarly but because of the brain health benefits and and the how with the development with the developing baby it's so interesting but it's cool because again like you could you could take b vitamins or you could eat um you know freeze-dried uh liver or iron or freeze-dried liver or organ meats you know you You can take CoQ10 or you can eat heart, for example. And there's a lot of arguments for the whole food sources. So is it done like the way you see it on sushi or is it like in a pill full?

25:07No, it's in a pill full. Oh, so it's in a capsule. It's free-stried capsule. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So you get the anti-inflammatory benefits. You get some of the nutrients that you'll find in fish roe that are good for you. It's good for heart health, but especially brain health. It's especially good for brain health. So it's a really good supplement. Are you on that? I am. Oh, you're good. Doug takes a lot of supplements. I do. I'm probably number two in this room. Oh, you for sure. Number two. Nobody beats Sal, but you for sure are a close second. Hey, I'm working on it. You are, dude. Hey, I'm on.

25:35You're a good third right now. This is, how many days? Do you remember when I went through all that BS? It's been like three months, huh? Three months, dude. Yeah, I think three months. Well, three months since I kicked Kratom, two months of training consistently. Because it was a month. I didn't do shit for a month. Yeah, you were just trying to survive. I didn't do anything for a month. but then yeah it's been i've now passed uh two two months monday i'll go get my dexa scan super interested to see it's like you're starting yeah it's not really starting because yeah no of course but what will be most interesting to me and i think i don't know if i shared this on the podcast and i know i shared with you um uh last time i talked about this was um the i have all the dexa scans from the the when i did the transformation thing and i'm coming from a different place i always like this i don't know this is the this is the dork in me when it comes to the the science stuff and just interested it uh i've done so many of these i i don't know how if you guys have done as many or as i have i've done like probably well over a hundred you know i've never done one dexa scan oh okay well i mean dexa body fat testing in general like like i've done a hundred hundreds of these and i i have seen my body fat percentage at a different weight from as for everything from 185 all the way to 240 pounds and i can tell you that i have a dexas can or a body fat test of uh awesome body fat percentage and a terrible body fat percentage at almost every single one of those weights which i find that really i think that's like a lean 185 versus a fat 185 yes yeah which i think is super fascinating to think that the with with your own human body like this is obviously my journey but for everyone listening it's like 185 pounds to 240 is a huge difference in amount of weight on somebody's body and yet i've got examples at like five pound increments all the way up weights of an awesome in shape version of me and a terrible in shape version of me on all of those so it's always interesting to me you've probably done the least amount of body fat tests and stuff right jesse i mean i've done a fair share but mainly like when whenever i we've scheduled it for clients and stuff i'll throw it in there but yeah probably yeah i could probably do like 10 maybe you've done dexas then not dexas underwater yeah underwater i've only done underwater i used to have the under and the reason why he's probably has a lot is i used to have the underwater come to our gym yeah and so all of my training i used to do it yeah with my clients the first time i did underwater weighing it's actually not it's not comfortable like you got to get underwater you gotta breathe every bit of air under the water which isn't not very yeah and i used to think i'd like get a better result by like yeah just almost to the point where i was like almost throwing up in water yeah i remember when i asked him one time because i thought that was so important like oh man that's why i didn't hold the air bubbles i'm like hey what's the difference if i don't let any air visit he's like not even a quarter percent of body yeah it's like oh it's like this whole time yeah yeah like three percent that's why i didn't get the air out but that was the big reveal of like especially the cardio versus like lifting weights approach to like losing body fat for me it was the most revealing was like going through the competitions the stuff we used to do and it was like like substantially different when you're like more cardio based and you're like yeah your body fat Such a valuable tool to use DEXA or your hydrostatic way to get body fat testing.

28:59And not because what the number says. And this is, again, like what I get so excited about going into this, even though I've done it 100 plus times, is I'm so interested to just what it tells me because I've done it enough times to go like, oh, this is what I'm going to do from here. Like, example, like what do I mean by that? Well, I'm going to come into this thing probably in the high 228 range weight, which is a high weight for me. Now, I know what a lot of lean body mass looks like on me. When I'm over 203 pounds of lean body mass, that's a lot of lean body mass. That's really good, right?

29:37Anything below 190 would be low for me. And so if I come in there and I don't really care about what the exact percentage is, but if I've only got 180 pounds of lean body mass on me and then I'm carrying a lot of body fat, I'll still stay on the game train of building muscle. Yeah, dude. You want that metabolic powerhouse. Exactly. But if I get on there and I'm like, oh, wow, I've built back up over 200 pounds of muscle, I'm in a good place to lean back out. And so I don't really care if it says 16%, 18%, 13%. Where you guess your body fat's going to be when you test it. Mid-teens? Low-teens? 15 to 16.

30:1115? That's probably about right. Yeah, 15 to 16. um yeah that's my guess but i mean i'm normally pretty close i'd say yeah i'd say probably uh i'll be really happy with 15 i'm probably around 16 something uh i could be as high as 16 9 maybe i don't know like uh and that'll it will tell on just how how much muscle i've built that will dictate how much of course yeah because i i know i've put some muscle back on i feel good i'm not very strong in the gym right now that makes me a little nervous um so we'll see you're careful though too at the way you've had a couple injuries i know i'm i'm super careful right now i'm not i'm not i want it's i'm in a i'm in an interesting place right now part of why i want to cut and go the other direction is so i can get away from focusing on because i i'm i've been at the same kind of weights and i really like yesterday i was dumbbell pressing again and like the 80s are just like flying around but i'm so scared to go 90 100 120s and move back to that kind of way and so i'm just like high reps, slowing it down, all the things we talk about because of the pec tear.

31:15I've been really trying to wrap my mind around and just really get my head space around changing my training to what I told you guys, where I go alternate strength training one week, one week cardio slash kind of functional. And so I'm really just trying to get my head in the right place because if it's not in the right place, I know what's going to happen is I'll very quickly back out or turn it into more strength training. so you officially started this no so I'm going to start in like a week or two and what it's going to start with I'm going to start real slow so it'll be like how I normally work out one week then the next week it'll be just boring cardio just get on listen to a book or a podcast or something like that and just get my stamina up a little bit and then Fridays I'm going to do unconventional stuff because I still film with Dylan on Fridays so I'll probably be in here doing just embarrassing myself with like windmills and stuff that I'm terrible at that I know I need to work on, like lateral stability, rotation, that kind of stuff.

32:16And then it'll probably, I don't know if I'll change my mind with this, but I want to get better at swimming because I can swim to not drown. But truth be told. I totally empathize with you. High bar there. Truth be told. Are you a bad swimmer too? I'm like, I'm okay. I'm like an okay swimmer. I just, I don't, I don't do well with it longterm. Like I really get uncomfortable. Like if I have to be in the water for too long, like I like wakeboarding and I like doing water sports. With a life vest and a board. Yeah. I'm like, I can't be out there just like swimming. Yeah. Cause I'm just dog paddling and feeling like I'm going to die.

32:54So it's so mental. It's so mental because when I was a kid, I was a great swimmer. And then I didn't swim for a long time. My mom, I think I got to live at the beach when I was a kid. By the way, this makes me like aware, like your fears, your kid will pick up on them. For sure. Oh, dude. So if you say like, ah, this is scary, like a spider's scary, your kid's gonna be like that. My wife has done this with, my wife is allergic to bees and every once in a while we have bees because our neighbor. So he freaks out. Yeah, so now my son thinks he's, I'm like, Max, it is not scary. Exactly. And like, they're not scary.

33:24So I grew up, my mom is terrified of the water. If she goes in, it goes up to her knees and she's out. She just always had this fear of water. So I haven't swam for a long, like legit swam for a long time. So if like, if you guys were to invite me on like a houseboat or you're like hey we're gonna go to the we're gonna go swim in the ocean like for sure i get anxiety i like will legit get anxiety like what if i and i know it's not logical so i'm like you trying to use that as motivation because the gym i go to they have a pool and i want to do this cardio thing so i'm like you know what i'm gonna try and get over this now you don't think you don't think that's biting off more and you can chew at the same time no i think it's actually you might be right dude because i'm talking right now Yeah, because I mean, just my opinion, but you could be totally different.

34:09I know that when I'm doing something like out of my comfort zone, like adding more layers of things that are out of my comfort zone doesn't help. Let me be clear. I'm not jumping in a deep pool. Well, I know, but still, I'm not going to be scared. I know, but my point is you would never go swim anyways because it's not something you love to do. So you're already challenging yourself to do something you wouldn't love to do, which I commend you for. But so is also getting on a cardio. You might be right. But here's where I'm not sure. I think if I go in with the mentality of I'm just going to get better at swimming so I can enjoy things with my family.

34:47Because that's the motivating factor. Because my wife, she's trying to book these short trips throughout the year. Yeah. Because oftentimes we have these three-day, four-day weekends. and she's like, well, I want to go do a lake house and I want to get a houseboat. And I can already feel inside of me like, I'm not going to enjoy that because I don't feel comfortable. So I feel like it might be a nice other focus. You know, like get in there. I'm not in here to work out. I'm here to learn how to swim type of deal. So if you see me at the gym, don't make fun of me. I probably look like a people in my water.

35:19Or did you get one of those little caps? Yeah. I did all that, bro. Remember when I went on my swim? Yeah, but you're a good swimmer, dude. I'm not a good swimmer. You're a hella good swimmer. Yeah, you're a good swimmer. You're a really good swimmer. What are you talking about? I did not have good technique. I definitely did. I learned a lot. I actually got - You're built to swim, bro. That's true. That is true. I'm built to swim. And so because of that, I get away with it. Justin's not built to swim. No, bro. The worst part is I've done so much of it. You know, like growing up and I was like living in the pool, living in the ocean.

35:52Can you just see the water splashing? his big old legs and ass I make a great cannonball Justin and I racing in the water you wouldn't even see him you'd see water like a Tasmanian devil in the water that's what it would look like when I was a kid and we would go to the beach or when we were visiting my family in Sicily I'd go out and I'd just swim in the ocean like the normal ocean you can't catch me dead doing that now that's so interesting I'm either going to drown or... You're just out of practice, bro. You also have a lot more muscle, too. This does not work to your benefit. Are you... I may hire someone at some point.