2806: The BEST form of Strength Training for Women is Powerlifting. Challenge Me!

15:48Sal Di Stefano:And then we can build off of that. Yeah. I mean, it's hard, too, because we're kind of not highlighting a lot of the benefits like CrossFit brings because it's not a great representation of that side of pursuit. If I'm trying to be more movement-focused, I'm trying to be skill-specific. Like, what can I build and develop? What my abilities, they don't segment it. And so like training itself for me, this is where I always have like the biggest criticism because it's like where I lean. Like if I was to pick out of the three of them, I'd probably lean more on the CrossFit side of the fence. However, it's just it doesn't I don't program it anywhere near, you know, the same way that they do, because it's when you're building and developing skill, you have to have that kind of focused attention and specificity, which is very much lacking on that.

16:42Sal Di Stefano:But, you know, and again, this is very community-based, so it's like everybody's kind of like in the trenches together. That's the problem is that it's still class-based. That's also the plus.

16:53Adam Schafer:That's also the plus. Yeah, right. I mean, I have a good friend of mine, Chuck. You guys know Chuck. And I tease him all the time about this. I have tons of crossword friends. Because it's brutal. I mean, it's so funny, by the way. We tease each other, right? So I annoy him on purpose. So he's a pastor. I love sending him conspiratorial uh like end of times uh like preachings like bro check this out the signs are here he gets so mad because he's a theologian right he's like no that's not what the so he'll get like I could tell he's being calm but annoyed with me yes and then meanwhile he'll send me stuff that he's doing I'm like bro dude why did you do that as part of your workout like he'll send me a picture of his hands with his hand torn you know a part of it torn off I'm like You think that's like a good workout that that happened?

17:36Adam Schafer:But my point with it is when we, when we all, when we stopped teasing each other and we're just, you know, brass tacks, he's like, he's like, I love the, I love the friendships that I've made there. Yeah. And I've never felt so encouraged.

17:47Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

17:48Adam Schafer:You know, I feel so encouraged. Everybody's like supportive. It's a great community. And I'm like, you know what? You can't downplay that because he, and he would tell you, he'd be the first one to tell you that his relationship with fitness, his whole life was on and off. It was never consistent. It was either go run like crazy, lose a bunch of weight, then stop, and then eat like crazy. This is the first time he's ever been super consistent, and it has nothing to do with the programming. It has zero to do with that. It has everything to do with that he's been a part of this great community. And from a fitness professional's perspective, CrossFit nailed this so hard.

18:24Adam Schafer:they nailed this so well that they went from nothing to being dominant in a very short period of time in a space where you see very little of that. You see very little like big, to the point where normal gyms, big box gyms, change their floor plans because of CrossFit. They literally added and changed things because of their influence. So that part right there. Huge fall off though. Huge fall off. Big fall off, but what stuck around were the good parts of it. I think

18:54Sal Di Stefano:what you're saying is a lot of the stuff that just so okay so let's let's imagine this for a second because this would be a fun experiment uh you're going to take this fresh person justin for you uh this is fresh so clean what's a better what's a fertilizer brand new sparkly like yeah well brand new and what i mean by fresh like never trained any mode yeah i know okay and we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna take them through all three oh yeah so they they have to go all three or they're going to go through all three. How am I going to order it? And then what am I going to coach telling them as you go through the journey?

19:27Sal Di Stefano:So I know that they're eventually going to make it through all three. And I want them to get the most out of each one of these things and what they have to offer, but also be wary of each. Oh, wow. So what a cool – because here's what I – because as we're talking about this, I'm thinking about all of us have experience in all three of these. Justin and I probably did a little more CrossFit stuff than you did, but we all have experience in all of these. and so I think the best is knowing the best of all of it and knowing how to individualize it for you. Oh, no doubt, no doubt. So imagine somebody who's - You can't do that.

19:56Sal Di Stefano:Imagine a young or soon-to-be fitness enthusiast is like, well, I want to learn. Where would they start? Where do we start? What are you telling them? What are you coaching them about that as they're going through that first one? Then where do you tell them to go second and why? And what are you coaching and telling them to look out for? And then third and final?

20:13Adam Schafer:I have a pretty initial strong opinion that I think I could support pretty well. So I would start with powerlifting because you're learning the basic big lifts. You're also – focus is off how I look. It's focused on performance. It's focused on strength. I have no focus on diet aside from making sure I'm eating enough to get strong, which is actually a good place to start. Then I would move to CrossFit, a good community, so a good CrossFit gym, so I can learn more movements. I can have fun with the community. I can push myself with stamina in different ways. I did it with powerlifting. You're also going to pick up a tremendous amount of mobility.

20:49Adam Schafer:Mobility. And then diet now is getting a little bit more advanced. And I'm getting more with my diet in terms of, okay, what makes me feel good? What's giving me a little bit more stamina? I can't be bloated like I did before when I was just squatting and deadlifting. Now I got to like think about that a little bit. And then the end I would go bodybuilding. Because at this point I've built a solid, secure foundation with strength training. I understand performance. I've been doing this long enough where I'm not so jaded or so easily affected by the mirror and by the scale. And now I can learn anatomy.

21:21Adam Schafer:I can get way more detail with diet. It's not going to take me over. And then bodybuilding, let's face it, that style of training will take you to the end of your life. Whereas CrossFit and powerlifting, you'll probably have to stop. So that's interesting. Would you go that way? Well, because I could argue a little bit different.

21:37Sal Di Stefano:Like the nutrition part, I think is why I probably would agree with that format. But like if we kind of if I took them to powerlifting and then we went to bodybuilding, I feel like we could focus more on muscle activation. And I could get a little more familiar in terms of like, you know, unilateral type of focus, like body awareness. It's more like hypertrophy. if you look at it more from like an opt model let's say like we're building our base level strength now we're like adding in like hypertrophy is like this is this is now we're building the muscles up and developing so and then expressing them now we're expressing at the peak because to me crossfit is a very small uh like just like you would like the pinnacle of your training you're going for power going for high risk yeah so i look at it as high risk training yeah so i'm not going to go to high risk until good argument until we get to that's a that's a really good programming argument that is that is a really good argument in fact i was going to agree with sal until you said that because that is such a great yeah argument i could see that because i would want this person to but the nutrition kind of messes it up no you're right well and and what else what i agree with sal which is funny because you how this started was you made the case that you you know power lifting being the place for the the female client and i made the argument for body building i i agree with your pathway and then guess what body build for the rest of your life now yeah like you have that you have you've now got a great base strength yeah you've now learned all the mobility moving in different planes unilateral stuff you got all the great stuff that crossfit has endurance training all the great stuff that crossfit has to offer now go spend the rest of your life in bodybuilding and just incorporate those other things whenever you want to and need to and you're set for life in my opinion yeah but from a programming perspective justin makes a great argument yeah that crossfit's the ultimate expression it is about it requires And high risk, because not only are you doing explosive-type movements, you're also pairing them together and running them for time.

23:36Sal Di Stefano:You have to have really good body awareness. Yeah, which puts you in super high risk. And so for that reason, having as much experience as I can training, because maybe if you go the pathway you're saying, maybe you present high risk or high injury risk, right? You just started doing powerlifting, say, for six months or a year, you get really good and strong at it, then you go right away to all these other, like now you're throwing a baseball.

24:01Adam Schafer:You know what I'm saying?

24:02Sal Di Stefano:Like that would be, you know, so interesting argument from a programming perspective. I think where it sounds like most of us agree though, is you land in bodybuilding long-term. Yeah. Like for risk versus risk. Slow control. It's the best for longevity. Yeah, unilateral stuff. Hitting all the body parts. You know what I'm saying? Symmetry and balance is still there.

24:23Adam Schafer:And it's the most advanced diet.

24:25Sal Di Stefano:and then for the average person who doesn't know how to control macros and balance calories and

24:33Adam Schafer:stuff like that i mean i and the argument too for me was hopefully by that point you're secure enough in yourself i'll use you as an example adam you started strength training for the same reasons i did right it felt insecure skinny want to get bigger whatever you didn't body build competitively until way later to the end of all those when you when you had already built a nice And I'd already done all this. Yes. You're a secure man. Yes. Imagine if you competed in bodybuilding - Sure, sure. Two years after starting, how that would have spun you. Sure. So that's part of my - I think the big thing to understand, too, with this is - What's cool about this is you plan on doing this for the rest of your life.

25:08Adam Schafer:If you don't - I think the smartest thing to do is understand the pros and cons of each. Well, yes. And know how to move in and out of all. It's great.

25:16Sal Di Stefano:Well, that's the truth of all this. because obviously there's people listening right now that is in one of these camps that's arguing and angry, right? Of course. But the truth is you should have elements of all of it. There's great elements. They don't become a modality and stick around for this long unless there's a lot of really good things about them, bottom line. And we can sit here and we can put it. Well, I think that's what's been fun about writing our programs together. It's like, you know, we're addressing these different communities and we're like, here, you can literally try it first here and then jump over into this next demographic.

25:55Sal Di Stefano:And we're riding in from the perspective of having experienced all this.

25:59Adam Schafer:That's right. You know what's cool, too, about this? We didn't even touch on this. The experience of training in each of these is so different. Like, although I never did a lot of CrossFit, I've done that style of training when I was doing a lot of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. It's a very different. It's a good feeling. It's a good feeling to feel like you have stamina, some strength, some agility. It feels great. Some snap and power. But it's a very different feeling than when I'm grinding out, you know, singles, doubles, and triples of really heavy weight. That's also an awesome feeling. Yeah. Which is very different from the feeling I get when I'm bodybuilding and I get the pump and I can sculpt my body and I'm doing this high volume style training.

26:38Adam Schafer:All of them are these wonderful, I mean, all three of them, if I got into them, I could just have this incredible experience. and I think people should seek them out and really understand those experiences.

26:49Sal Di Stefano:No, I think there's a lot of value. So the problem that everybody has is they drink the Kool-Aid of the camp. Yeah, dude. You know what I'm saying? I get it. Versus going in and going like, hey, I'm interested in this thing. I'm going to appreciate, dive all the way into it. And I think that has more to say about my personality than maybe even when I landed. You make a good point. Like maybe if I did land at peak insecure is 17, 19 year old Adam, maybe it would have done something. But this has always been my personality. One, I've always been against the, like, I'm never, like I never wanted to be fit in a box.

27:23Adam Schafer:It didn't happen that way for a reason. Right.

27:25Sal Di Stefano:Like, so I've always been that person that did not want to be in a box. Oh, everyone's doing that. I mean, why? The only reason I'm not doing jujitsu is because everybody does it. I know. With all my heart. Hey, with all my heart, I want to do it. But then the other. Every podcaster on the planet. Yes. The other part of me is like, everybody's doing it. We got to get you into Kung Fu, bro. There's no podcast for Wing Chun food. I was going to do Wing Chun. Yeah. But that just highlights, that's my personality, right? And so as much as I would get into each one of these things, I never would fully drink the Kool-Aid because I'm like, I'm not going to let you put me in a box, which remember when we started podcasting, it drove me crazy.

28:00Sal Di Stefano:I know. Everybody knew you were the bodybuilder guy. That I was the bodybuilder guy. I'm like, I am not. Do you know how much more marketable we would have been, especially with this topic? Like, you bodybuilder. I know. You powerlifting me, CrossFit guy. It would have been. You're right. It would have been if we all had a camp that we fought for the entire time, it would actually probably have made for a better. And that's what people want. They want the drama. But the truth is there's so much good from all of them.

28:26Adam Schafer:You know where that comes from, though, guys? It's because we train people. That's where it comes from. It's because if I never trained a lot of people, I'd probably be much more in a camp. Sure. But you work with enough people, enough different personalities, enough different life experiences that you start to see the value in all this stuff you know what

28:44Sal Di Stefano:you know what's cool nuance matters that's right even though uh i can't quite credit crossfit for doing this because i i kind of got this outside of crossfit although i know crossfit could you could get this um each one of them there's three attributes that i think made me a like what i can now consider a good coach i've openly said first five seven years terrible i was terrible trainer terrible trainer but like three attributes that i think make me really fucking good at what i do um one and i've gotten from each one of those the the skill and ability to teach uh power lifting movements is a skill in itself oh yeah i mean it's it's it's part of why when i was at first five years of training i never even taught deadlift yeah i was scared to death to do it and much less teach it and then it took me years of getting really proficient at it to where i could coach it and actually really cue it and see something and like so that that is a and man that makes a good and those are the most fundamental movement so that's a huge attribute that i have that i didn't get until i went through like power lifting style of training for a long period of time bodybuilding which was later in my career that i experienced dude my level of nutrition that's right coaching and like bro that's what you bring to the podcast oh my god that's like like it it was so and it was wild to me because i actually thought i was already a really yeah It's not like you didn't know anything.

30:01Adam Schafer:Every average person needs this conversation. I thought I was pretty good.

30:05Sal Di Stefano:It took me to a whole other level of understanding and coaching to somebody else, right? Like to where I can look at a body and go like, this is what's going on.

30:13Adam Schafer:Bro, when it comes to X's and O's and this and that and that many grams of this and bodybuilders are the scientists. And it does, it takes you to it.

30:21Sal Di Stefano:And then even though I didn't really get this from CrossFit, I think you could credit CrossFit, like my mobility. Like what I got from Dr. Brink and the time that I spent with him and all the learning that I went deep on my mobility journey, which you could argue that element comes from CrossFit or it's embedded in CrossFit. And I think those three things in a coach, if you have elite level of those three, like you are, who are you not able to like, who are you not able to like completely help to an extreme level? Great point. Like name it. Name me a client that you come across that if those are three really strong attributes, and again, the point of this was not me to pump my own tires.

31:01Sal Di Stefano:It's just that my journey of going through all those, when I think back of like, I admit I was a shitty coach for a long time. I believe I'm really good at what I do today. If I had to distill it down to three badass attributes, those are the three. Of course. Right?

31:17Adam Schafer:100%.

31:18Sal Di Stefano:Would you not agree that those are probably the three that you... Yeah, I can't think of anything other than rehab or corrective exercise. If you put correctional exercise with the mobility, which is why I put it in that category. But I mean, I guess you could qualify. I would, right? I would say that. And maybe, because that could get even a little bit. Kelly Starrett stuff in there, you're good.

31:35Adam Schafer:Yeah, my influence was, I was blessed. I've been so blessed to have these opportunities be put in front of me where I learn from people who know so much more than me. Like, I got powerlifting experience early on from older powerlifters who showed me the major lifts. Bodybuilding was always something I was into, so that was just me reading and learning about it. and then the mobility and uh correctional exercise i had a bad ass physical therapist that worked in my studio with me for eight years that i get to watch and see what she could do and just listen it was a tiny studio so i was like i could hear everything like those things right

32:12Sal Di Stefano:there oh my gosh like great combination okay so let's take it a layer deeper because you just have anything and you you did justin by saying uh giving kelly starrett his love because i think I think he's a champion. He's maybe, if not the most important person to CrossFit, in my opinion. Obviously, Greg Glassman created it. Rob Wolf's up there. Rob on that side. But Kelly Starrett with mobility really saved it. In fact, CrossFit without Kelly Starrett dies. Oh, yeah. Without addressing the mobility side.

32:47Adam Schafer:They couldn't hide all the... Exactly. They would still have the throwing up class.

32:52Sal Di Stefano:So let's try and come up with a book. A book, a philosophy, or a teacher for each one of those. If that's like you were to. Oh, God. So I think supple leopard for. Starting strength. I think starting strength is a great one. Yeah. Bodybuilding. You can't say Arnold's.

33:08Adam Schafer:I think so. Really? Yeah. I think because you're going to have movements for every body part. You wouldn't do like. Good basic diet advice in there. They call it the encyclopedia. well he called it that but I think people refer to it as that for a reason so I think body I think the encyclopedia of bodybuilding would be a good place to start I really do had a huge impact on me as a kid he didn't have enough on me that's why I

33:34Sal Di Stefano:struggle with this one ironically do you have any that? no that's why I was trying to come to mind I gotta give our boy credit a good friend of ours I got a lot from Lane during my years that's how I found Lane I found Lane because I actually thought he like there was a there was a transition in the bodybuilding uh world of uh very old kind of science around nutrition and diet reverse dieting yeah yeah everything i mean even like a sodium and water intake and there was a lot of things that the bodybuilding lane changed that yeah lane lane had a big influence on the natural bodybuilding space uh early on and again a lot of bodybuilding back in Arnold days, well, that's not true because that wasn't high steroid day, but a lot of the information came from anabolic side of things.

34:22Sal Di Stefano:And like the fine-tune.

34:24Adam Schafer:It was also one person telling another and this is what worked for me.

34:27Sal Di Stefano:There wasn't any science. Yeah, I felt like Lane did such a good job of that during that time. Take him or leave him as far as like he's your personality or not, but I have to give him credit for being somebody who was very influential for me. I agree.

34:40Adam Schafer:He came out real big when bodybuilding forums were really big. And so he had this huge impact through all of that. Yeah, yeah. And he stuck around a long time because, I mean, like you said, like him or not, personality-wise, the guy, he communicates things that, I mean, very well done. Yeah. Data back.

35:01Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, so his science, and he has obviously an incredible understanding of programming because he's also got a powerlifting background with his bodybuilding. So he's definitely very, very – you know what's unfortunate is he probably doesn't get the love he deserves because he doesn't have this crazy genetic physique. Oh. So he doesn't look – so for – you think bodybuilding, you think of Arnold right away because of how he looks. Oh, you mean for bodybuilding? Yeah.

35:23Adam Schafer:Yeah. Yeah.

35:24Sal Di Stefano:Maybe. But like if I were – and I'm not a fan of Arnold's programming. I mean – Oh, no. I know programming. I was thinking powerlifting would be like Louis Simmons. Oh, yeah. Westside? Big time. Oh, God.

35:37Adam Schafer:They changed the game. have to put them in there in the mix yeah so i'm i just thought that would be a fun way to take

35:42Sal Di Stefano:it like let's say you're not a trainer who wants to technically go through all these because because that here's the thing i mean we've read all those things yeah and experienced all those things that's the the just the the ultimate is have you read all all the greatest minds in those or some of the greatest minds you see all of them would be exaggeration but some of the greatest minds in those fields and then have you gone through it yourself so can you communicate and then go work

36:08Adam Schafer:with a good coach who's got experience yeah because because when you throw a wrench in of different personalities and body types and variances and all kinds of stuff uh now what you think you know gets challenged so many times what i thought was right would get challenged because it just didn't work with a client for whatever reason and i'd have to throw it out the window okay let me consider this other thing yeah you know uh talking about our friends uh that it's

36:33Sal Di Stefano:been on here and been friends of ours for a long time another one are you guys watching our friend drew cannoli right now oh he's doing great viral video bro video i so this is the the business side he communicates that wellness side very well well so you want to you change you want to hear the geek side of the side that i get like okay so i get an opportunity to talk to a lot of these friends of ours that are like the founders and stuff he's a founder of organifi for people Yeah, so he's a founder of Organifi. You've actually known him even longer than I have. I've maintained a close relationship, so I talk to him fairly regularly, him and Mike Matthews and many other, these founders of big companies that are friends of ours.

37:11Sal Di Stefano:And I love getting to know the behind the scenes stuff. And I've watched that whole journey of that company move its way all the way up to a$100 million company and then watch it come all the way down. And a lot of that had to be with Drew stepping in and out of the company. like he's always been a part of it but he stepped back for many years like after it really shot up we first got introduced to him in fact when we first got introduced he was he had a different ceo in place and i remember being really fascinated with this because mind pump was really early and at that time i really wrestled with this idea of like you know should i step aside and like like hire somebody else to to run to run us right and tell us what to do like i very at that point not knowing what was the right call and remember thinking about different plays that we could do and so and then seeing him do that made me feel like oh that's the right thing to do when you get to a certain point be wise enough to like remove yourself from it don't let your ego get in the way that you need to have and so i had so much respect for that but then it also took a huge dive well

38:13Adam Schafer:drew he is now reinserted himself he's got a he's a big huge part of it he's very um what's the word He's brilliant in understanding, for lack of a better term or better description, the wellness side of supplements and health. And he also communicates it very well. Yeah. And he gets it because he lives it. So this is why Organifi is one of those brands that needs that vision. It's not just a supplement company. Because if it was, then you're just competing with other supplements. Although they have great products. They're tested across the board. They have some of the most rigorous testing. They even test for glyphosates.

38:53Adam Schafer:Yeah, they stay ahead of the trends. But their formulations are very, very smart because of the team that they have. But more than that, it's like this visionary company that leads wellness. And without someone like Drew, who's a leader, he's a thought leader in that space, good luck. And so now that he's on social media and communicating things that are around health and wellness, he does it so well and he gets it he gets how to communicate it he gets how to talk about the science but also the experience and he knows what people need to hear because he's one of those people what was the name of his trying to replace him is impossible no you can't you can't that's

39:34Sal Di Stefano:just you know it's also a sign of the times too i think it's like this is companies want the face of the brand now and there's so many faceless brands out there and and supplements or another And it supplements one of those things where it's like, how do I know I trust it? Now, of course, you know, we've co-signed for them for a very long time. So that does, I'm sure that's why we're partners with them still. But having him back is like the face and talking. I don't remember what it was when he reintroduced himself again to Instagram. But I mean, he's in the millions. Like just watched him explode again.

40:07Sal Di Stefano:Whatever that formula is, he knows it. Dude. In and out. Dude. Yeah. And he just steps in. So, so good. This video's so good.

40:14Adam Schafer:You know what I love about Drew? He's a great guy. You meet him, you love the guy. He's a really good guy. He's out there just enough, but he's not. He owns it. Yes, he owns it. And he's not one of those out there people that's hypersensitive. Yeah. I like that he's a weirdo. Bro. And he owns it. To hang out with us, if we like you, we'll start to tease you. Yeah. This is what we do. So we're guys like that. And Drew's like, he's not sensitive or whatever. He loves it, takes it, he owns it. I'll give you an example. I love that about him.

40:43Sal Di Stefano:I'll give you an example of people who he's like and how they were different is Ben Greenfield is like this. But Ben Greenfield took a lot longer to warm up to us. Drew was like instantly. Like Drew, the first time we were all in a room together, we could talk shit.

40:59Adam Schafer:Remember when he came into that meeting and he was wearing that? It looked like a Sergeant Pepper. What was that? Sergeant Pepper. Yeah. A jacket. I'm like, bro, that's a nice Beatles jacket. And he's cool.

41:11Sal Di Stefano:No, right away. Like, where Ben was, like, Ben took a little while to warm up to us. He did. And both guys, you know, what I enjoy most about them, and I know they're somewhat controversial figures online, and, you know, we've gotten to become friends and know them very, very well. And the thing that I respect the most about both of those guys that I think they get a lot of scrutiny around is being these kind of hippy-dippy biohack guys, but they live it. Yeah. There is a lot of people. there is a lot of people that have jumped on that bandwagon and they're and yes and they they pitch it they preach it they talk all about it but they like they those guys live that lifestyle and are really really into that and listen if i like the the newest ashwagandha or whatever thing that everyone's talking about like that's the most exotic thing about yeah yeah

42:09Sal Di Stefano:whatever the newest the newest thing you know what's the what's the new the the last one that has bled up our clan. Shilajit. Shilajit, you know, he's always on the front end of that. That was the one I was looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's so true, though. Like, he's always the guy to be the first one, and then I feel like everybody else kind of follows that trend. That's right. They did set that trend.

42:32Adam Schafer:They did. The Shilajit trend started with the Organifi.

42:34Sal Di Stefano:It's bad. He probably started with the Ashwagana. Green Juice was him.

42:37Adam Schafer:Yeah.

42:37Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Green Juice was him. You're right. Green Juice was not popular. No, you're right. All those other brands that are huge and everybody knows about them. Organifi started that. Organifi's flag. He's like the marketable Paul check. Their flagship product. What'd you say? Marketable Paul check. He's the marketable Paul check. I love Paul, but, you know. I just tuned into him either day. Paul's too abrasive, dude. He's great, dude. He's too abrasive.

42:56Adam Schafer:I love him just because he's always going to be Paul. Yeah, he is. Forever. And he's always going to wear the same pants. Yep. No matter what. Yeah. I just watched him stack rocks the other day. Did you?

43:05Sal Di Stefano:I was just, you know, it was funny. You bring him up. It's so funny you brought him up because I actually haven't. he I mean he's so uh the algorithm does not like him you know I'm saying like because he's definitely at the ultimate controversial oh yeah anti-establishment everything guy and I actually was like you know what I he hasn't popped up in my feed forever you have to look him up I had to look him up because I wanted to see what he's been up to and I'm like man all this crazy Epstein stuff I wonder if I was like so curious like what is Paul going to say you're right like I wanted to actually that's a good call yeah yeah I was like dude he's got to be yeah but I actually was surprised to see he hasn't been addressing this.

43:41Sal Di Stefano:But maybe because if you know Paul, Paul's like, this is old news. Yeah, I knew this. 70s and 80s, I could have told you about it.

43:49Adam Schafer:Dude, you know my favorite flex that anybody's ever tried to do on us? Paul. When we first met him, and it's such a like, let me establish myself real quick to you guys. We show up to his house to interview him years ago. This is like seven years ago, eight years ago maybe. we fly to interview this guy Paul answers the door brings us outside and then just takes out his wang and takes a piss right in front of us right outside

44:15Sal Di Stefano:like hey mid conversation yeah like I believe he's not hiding I don't think he broke conversation I believe he was still he's not trying to hide or anything yeah he's watering the plants

44:23Adam Schafer:and I know what he's doing he's like alright you guys let's see if you guys flinch let's see what's going on here and all it's like okay this is what it's gonna be like oh dude you know Justin you should've one up to him you should've one up to him right next to him He'd slap him in the butt. If Justin pooped on his...

44:40Sal Di Stefano:You would.

44:41Adam Schafer:You would bury it real quick.

44:43Sal Di Stefano:Hey, knowing Paul, Paul would have been like, nice. Very good. I like your style. He would have had you some banana leaves.

44:52Adam Schafer:Here, let me wipe you.

44:54Sal Di Stefano:You would have taught me how to remove. Who else has done like... Ben. Ben flexed on us. You Ben did too. Greenfield. Yeah, let's go grab some bales of hay.

45:01Adam Schafer:Yeah, dude, we show up. He's going to help me use some... He's going to help me use some chores. Has anybody else done that?

45:07Sal Di Stefano:Has anyone else gave us weird We've had aggressive handshakes No, I mean, Marvell Shrug tried to

45:14Adam Schafer:Yeah, but then there's the insecure flexes Aubrey Marcus The handshake It wasn't just once It was like three times

45:27Sal Di Stefano:And I wasn't like And I even like waited You know, like the second time Because I was like, maybe I'm coming in too hot or something. And it just wasn't working.

45:38Adam Schafer:Still, like, we couldn't, we just couldn't lie. Didn't he, like, hit the back of his hand? How did he do that? I've never missed like that. He went up to my forearm, and I'm like, dude,

45:45Sal Di Stefano:are we going to do the bro? You know, the one where you just grab, like, forearms? Yeah. Lewis Howes had the, he hugged me and then rubbed my chest. Oh, yeah. He hugged me and did a little circle rub on his chest. Yeah, he put his arm around, put his arm, the first time we ever met, we walked into his apartment. Like old Vic's Vapor Rub. Yeah, the first time we ever met, we walked into his apartment. That's weird, dude. And he put his arm around my low back and then rubbed my chest. That's a little weird, dude. First one. That's a little weird, bro. And then playing a little gay chicken there.

46:12Sal Di Stefano:And then who's our good buddy? You first. You first. Oh, my God. The UFC fighter.

46:18Adam Schafer:Oh, Kyle Kingsbury? Yeah, Kyle. Oh, that's too far, dude. I would never be.

46:22Sal Di Stefano:That's too far.

46:23Adam Schafer:Kyle did a low back one on me. He did a little brush. A little rub. I'm cool. Walking you around. First time I was ever scared. Yeah. Because he could. Never been scared like that before. You know what I'm saying? Justin and I couldn't stop him. We'd have to call the cops. Yeah.

46:38Sal Di Stefano:We were getting hyped up. We're like, our boy's in trouble. We're in trouble. Yeah, if he goes after Adam. Any other weird encounters or like first time? We've had a couple where, who was it that we had?

46:49Adam Schafer:What's the dude? He's kind of a big guy. We interviewed him. And he had a personality on the podcast that. Oh, Elliot Hulse. Yeah, dude. It was weird. Like, suddenly he's like, I am this guy. and I will talk this. We're like, whoa, dude. That's not how you talk to real money. He's delivering what's happening right now. Yeah, we were turned off by that right away.

47:07Sal Di Stefano:That's why we never hit it off. We never communicated after that. It's rare that we meet somebody, and then we just like, that'll be the last time. There's so many weirdos, dude. People don't understand that. They just see them in their videos. Remember the first time I took us to, I had the suite and we went to the concert after we interviewed Aaron Alexander. I remember he took his shoes off of the suite and he started doing stretches. He started doing monkey walks. Yeah, we got this suite out there, right? There's like executives and people in there. And the whole boy just takes his shoes off and he starts doing mobility.

47:44Sal Di Stefano:He's a nice guy. Oh, no, I love it. I really like the guy, but he's so out there.

47:48Adam Schafer:He definitely has got that. There's no, like this is like all due respect. There's no offense, but the hippie smell. You know what I mean? He's a non-deodorant guy. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, there's a little earthy. I remember the first time he came here, too,

48:00Sal Di Stefano:he was climbing on all the squat rack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why are you up there? That's like first time meeting. So that's what I'm talking about. He's talking to us, but he decides.

48:10Adam Schafer:Do you want an apple or something? Yeah. Bro.

48:13Sal Di Stefano:I don't know. Ben at dinner. Ben at dinner. Well, yeah, he sat, he was perched like a vulture.

48:18Adam Schafer:Like not sitting in his chair, but standing and squatting in his chair and like leaning over with his massive. with blue blockers on. He's got massive hands. He's cutting him like this while he's talking about this. Remember he threw that science-y question at you, Adam? Yeah. Right up the gates.

48:32Sal Di Stefano:As soon as the podcast turned on.

48:33Adam Schafer:Yeah, as soon as it turned on, he looked at the bro-iest looking one of us. He was like, oh, so Adam, what do you think about and I remember what he said.

48:38Sal Di Stefano:You know what he was talking about? Sarms.

48:40Adam Schafer:Sarms. That's right. And of course, Adam looked at me. He's like, I brought my Sal with me. Go ahead, Sal. I brought my own.

48:47Sal Di Stefano:You obviously don't know what I said.

48:50Adam Schafer:Science, dude.

48:50Sal Di Stefano:So we were just at somewhere like that. I forget where we're at. And somebody started asking me something like, you're not listening to the podcast? That's not me. That's a question.

48:58Adam Schafer:Oh, it's like when I get really deep business questions. Yeah. We're going to interview Sal about your business and the analytics. I'm like, oh, stop right there. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You want to interview Adam? Well, that's what it was. How many plays you have? Somebody was interviewing me.

49:10Sal Di Stefano:They sent me over the list of questions. I'm like, I'm not going to answer these. You got the wrong host. Katrina was like, you can answer those. I'm like, it doesn't matter. I could. It's like, I have someone better for that. it's like it's not a matter of i could or not that's not my forte i'm saying as the science

49:25Adam Schafer:guy that's i gotta i gotta share you guys a cool story about so you guys know how my niece uh jessica's niece has moved in she's not lived with us for a little while now she's going to school up here so such a great i love uh i love seeing uh when people are growth minded and all that stuff so she's a big soda drinker big soda drinker like a lot of kids uh jessica grew up like this just in fact my wife will tell you she didn't drink water till she was like 21 that's all she drank was soda so she loved dr pepper and drank it all the time well she started working out i started training her with my daughter yeah they're getting into working out they're getting into trying to get strong i'm not pushing it we're not trying to push it and i came home the other day and she's like i'm so mad i'm like what's going on she's like did you know dr pepper has this many grams of sugar in it like yeah yeah that's like that's a lot i'm not drinking those anymore so she cut out her dr pepper so which she's which is a great i mean for a kid there's a big deal for

50:25Sal Di Stefano:her no it's hard to do and she's replaced it with olipop oh bro that that's i i love that we work we're working with them again because she likes soda so she likes soda i i she likes the taste Anyone that's been listening long enough knows that I've always talked about my soda addiction and my sugar addiction. You grew up like that? Yes, grew up like that, 100%. And even as a young adult, it's in and out of my life all the time. And Olipop has always been something that I keep around the house. And just like anything else, I talk about this with caffeine, with marijuana, all these different things that I will notice.

50:59Sal Di Stefano:Like, okay, I'm starting to drink a lot of these diet sodas. like Ollipop is like the go-to move that I feel like I still get that. Yeah. Mouth feel, it tastes still sweet, it tastes good, but so much better for you.

51:10Adam Schafer:It's like almost no sugar.

51:12Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Like super low-color. And I think they have, don't they? And maybe you can look this up. Do they have a Dr. Pepper flavor? I think they do have it. What would they call it? I know they have like a root beer one. I know they have a cream soda one. I think they do have a -

51:25Adam Schafer:I like their Shirley Temple.

51:26Sal Di Stefano:The Shirley Temple one's a newer one. Delicious. It is really good. It's delicious. See if they have, do you know what they have one?

51:30Justin Andrews:Yeah, they call it Dr. Goodwin. See?

51:34Sal Di Stefano:That's so cool. They have a Dr. Pepper one. So that's cool. That's so cool. You'll have to get her trying that one.

51:39Adam Schafer:By the way, she just got a job. Oh. And it's the best. Did she get the front desk job? At the gym. She did. At the gym. Okay, so tell me. Yeah. You didn't tell me.

51:49Sal Di Stefano:Okay, the last time we talked. Oh, I told you about how we practiced. Yeah, you were getting ready for the interview.

51:53Adam Schafer:So she's so great, right? Because one thing about her, she's very shy, but she's also very growth-minded. and I always remind her how growth-minded she is because I think it's important that you tell people, but especially kids, that you remind them of their strengths because, yeah, I remember what it was like to be a teenager and you could feel a little insecure. And she is. She's very growth-minded. Something's really difficult for her. She'll do it anyway, still be challenged, but she chooses to do it. And so I love telling her that. But she is very shy and she's also very soft-spoken. And I have a connection at UFC Gym.

52:23Adam Schafer:You guys know my buddy Don runs the place. And the gym environment is just a great environment to be in. especially if you're if you're shy and you want to you want to you want to have to learn how to talk to people what took me out of my shell it's the best it's the best environment it's like tons of people there's music it's a healthy environment energy so so i gotta tell you guys the the interview that i practiced with her because i don't know if i said this on the show so i sat down with her because she was going to get interviewed i'm like all right let's practice like when you when you know you do an interview so we practice the handshake sitting down and so I'm like so why do you want to work here and she's like I think it'll help me strengthen and help me work on my social skills I'm like okay that's good but I don't think you should share that don't tell them you need help let's not open with that but she got the job she's starting I think tomorrow

53:16Sal Di Stefano:you'll have to keep us updated on the journey

53:18Adam Schafer:oh she's going to grow so much you know what you just said

53:21Sal Di Stefano:I was just thinking about something You just said something that I thought is interesting that has to be somewhat true, if not really true. When you go to the gym, even if you had a bad day and you've motivated yourself or you've told yourself, and you go, you had to switch your mindset to do that. You know what? Today sucks. I don't feel good. I had a bad day at work. I'm going to the gym. So you've already reframed. Otherwise, you chalk it up and go, F the day, and you stay home. That's right. So anybody who's in the gym has naturally kind of this positive frame. That doesn't mean it's impossible to run into an asshole or run into somebody.

54:01Sal Di Stefano:It's the best environment. But think about that. Where else can you get a collection of potentially 100 or hundreds of people in one place?

54:09Adam Schafer:Who are there to become better, to grow.

54:11Sal Di Stefano:Right. And so there's a very high likelihood that most of them are in a really good mindset, right? Yep. like that's like that's a place where you if you're having that bad of a day you just don't go that's right you don't go to the gym like it's like it's a bad day right so you you go to the gym most people go and even if you were having a bad day and you go to the gym work through it you that means you you made the mental decision that i'm not going to let this day get me i'm going to go still do this thing and so you're already in a in a in a better totally and not

54:37Adam Schafer:only that listen we're all we sometimes we're a little bit in a bubble because we've all worked in gyms most of our lives in that environment you guys remember what it's like to work in a non-gym like a regular work environment it's hard to remember it's depressing yeah it's depressing dude like you're surrounded by people who are working most of them are not really passionate most people that work in a gym are passionate about fitness so there's that then you get the members coming in they're all choosing to go there right to better themselves you got music in the background it's uplifting most job when i worked in the bank because i did i was a premier banker for a little bit for bank of america man it's depressing life's spiral yeah nobody wants to be here.

55:16Adam Schafer:Everybody's coming in. Where else could you get that?

55:19Sal Di Stefano:Where else could you get that high of a percentage of people that have to be in a good mood? And even if they were in a bad mood, they've already at least shifted their frame of mind to be in a good mood to get in their workout. Where else? I don't know. A theme part? I mean, maybe. I'm serious. Unless you've got the people coming at you with kids for some. Mascots? Yeah. Yeah, dude.

55:42Adam Schafer:I mean, that's why Disneyland's so great. I mean, like, although sometimes you can see on parents' faces like, I just spent$700. I'm so tired. A lot of times that could be selfless.

55:53Sal Di Stefano:You're there because you're a kid. How many husbands or whatever? Wives? I don't want to go. It's a great deal. I'm really trying to think of another job setting or a setting where 100 plus people would be in one place and you could count on a large percentage if not all are in a positive mindset. That's kind of crazy.

56:14Adam Schafer:I would say volunteer jobs. When you're volunteering, everybody's there. That's a really good guess.

56:21Sal Di Stefano:If you were a rescue animal place or something like that, everybody's there.

56:25Adam Schafer:You're going to be around people who are there.

56:28Sal Di Stefano:Or you're down Mexico building houses or something like that. That's another level. A mission trip or something. That's probably it. Really, that is maybe the only thing that would probably rival that because that's probably even more powerful because it's selfless. It is. You're there and you know that. You're not even getting paid. Right, you know you're doing shit, but you're doing it for somebody else. You have to have a really already great mindset. It's probably the only thing that would rival it, actually. I can't think of anything else.

56:53Adam Schafer:Listen, I was telling my daughter this because my daughter's not old enough to work in the gym. And I'm like, this is the best first job you could get. Go work in the kids' club. Work the front desk. If you want to be a trainer later, that's really cool. But it's a great environment. It's not perfect. Every environment's going to have its whatever. Sure, and you can have a bad boss. But you're going to work a retail store at the mall. Restaurants are cool, but restaurants can be a little, I've worked in restaurants. They can also be a little whatever.

57:16Sal Di Stefano:I think everybody should work in a restaurant. It builds character. It does. Just like I think everybody should have a little bit of entrepreneurial knowledge. Well, mainly to start a business and what that entails. So it would give you a lot better perspective and more balanced. Totally.

57:32Adam Schafer:Go sell memberships at the gym. Watch what happens to your people skills. Oh, yeah. From our place is cookware that's forever chemical free. A lot of cookware, especially the nonstick cookware, has chemicals in there. And they call them forever chemicals for a reason. They don't leave. They go into your body. Now we have studies that show that connect them to not great things. Hormone disruption and chronic disease. If you want cookware that lasts a long time, that's nonstick, that's easy to take care of, that doesn't have all those crazy chemicals. There is a company. There is a company that does this.

58:11Adam Schafer:It's Our Place. Go check them out. Go to fromourplace.com. Use the code MINDPUMP. You'll get 10 % off site-wide. By the way, they have a 100-day trial with free shipping and returns. Try it out. It's the best cookware you'll ever use, and you're not going to expose yourself to all those crazy chemicals.

58:30Sal Di Stefano:Our first caller is Bert from Florida. What's up, Bert? How you doing, man? What's happening? How's it going, man? How you guys doing?

58:35Justin Andrews:Good, good, man.

58:36Sal Di Stefano:Good. How can we help you?

58:38Justin Andrews:Good. So I'm just going to go off the script here because it's a little surreal being on the air with you guys after listening to so many episodes. So I've been listening to you guys for about a year. One of my daughter's friend's dad actually recommended you guys. So I started listening since then. And since that episode, I've gone back, way back, listening to a bunch of stuff. And it's all been good. And I wanted to start by thanking you guys for all the free workout, family, and specifically the parenting advice that you guys give. Just Lisa being a good human, man. And it's great information.

59:11Justin Andrews:And there's not enough of that right now in the world. You know, it feels like I'm talking to my gym buddies. Except you guys are a little smarter than they were. But, you know, same kind of deal. So I appreciate that. Thanks, bro.

59:21Sal Di Stefano:Barely, yeah.

59:23Justin Andrews:So I'll go on to my questions now. It's basically two questions. I'm 49 years old, and I'll be 50 in March of this year. I'm married and I have a four and a six-year-old, a four-year-old son and a six-year-old daughter. I usually work out at home. I have a pretty full, good home gym. And also, I have a gym at work that I use. I've been weightlifting since I was about 15 years old. That summer, I bought a bus pass and I'd ride to the gym and meet my dad there during his lunch break and work out. Nice.

59:50Sal Di Stefano:That's cool.

59:51Justin Andrews:It's been quite a while. So, since then, my training's been on and off. But like 99.9 % on. Very rarely take any time off. so over the years i've struggled with what i feel is like gaining muscle um i'm sure it's probably due to my conservative approach not wanting to gain too much body fat so i pretty much track every single thing that i eat and um i use an app to track that i'm about and i'm i am at about 100 2500 calories right now i weigh 153 pounds um i consume about 165 grams of protein and I'm currently doing a reverse diet. The app I use is a Carbon app, the Lane Norton app, and they give me recommendations on the macros.

1:00:36Justin Andrews:And it feels to me like sometimes they're too small. You know, like the recommendations are a very small amount of calories. So I'm not sure if I should be trying to consume more calories or stay on the reverse longer. So that's my question as far as the diet stuff. And then I have a question as far as the training. So should I wait, wait, wait, you guys give me some.

1:00:57Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Let me ask you some questions where we're at right now. Give me an idea of like, do you have any idea how many steps you take in the day? Like how active you are during the day?

1:01:05Justin Andrews:I don't usually track my steps, but I'm, I'm pretty, I'm like a robot, man. I'm consistent with everything that I do. Like my daily routine, you know, my diet, my training, everything is, is very consistent and I've never tracked my steps. So that's maybe something that I should do.

1:01:20Sal Di Stefano:Well, I mean, give me an idea of what you do. What do you do for work? Like, do you have a job that's a desk job or do you move around a lot? Like, what's your what's your day look like?

1:01:27Justin Andrews:I work I work for the fire department, but I'm in an administrative position in health and safety. So I pretty much have a desk job. OK, so it's not, you know, my my my daily steps for work, other than when I work out, isn't isn't much more than than, you know, out of the ordinary.

1:01:43Sal Di Stefano:That helps because I was going to say your calories are probably really low if you have an active job and you move around a lot. But if you're pretty sedentary at work and your only real activity is your lifting, then I don't think you're like way under. But we probably definitely could boost calories, though. If you're training pretty consistently and you have a clean diet, my first reaction is to go higher on the calories.

1:02:05Adam Schafer:Yeah, what you're currently doing is going to keep you lean and fit. but if you want to gain I mean I would immediately have you go up 500 calories yeah right off the gates and go up 500 I don't even think you'd see massive change in the scale even with 500 you just start to see some strength gains with a 500 calorie increase and you've been at how long have you been at 2500 Um, I think it was like June or July.

1:02:32Justin Andrews:I'd have to look into the app, but it's been, you know, it'll be like 25, uh, 25, 25, 56. It'll go up very, I mean, 30, maybe 50 calories. You know, that's what the increases usually are.

1:02:43Adam Schafer:Where did you start? What was it at?

1:02:46Justin Andrews:I'd have to look, I'd have to look back in the app and see, but it had been, I've been at it since about April last year. Okay. So like I said, the increases really haven't been much.

1:02:56Sal Di Stefano:Okay. So were you like, so back in April, when you first started the app, were you like around 2 ,000 calories or something? Is that kind of where you used to eat back in the days?

1:03:05Justin Andrews:Yeah, I think it was right on there. I mean, again, I have the exact numbers. I keep workout logs. I'm like, you know, OCD on some of that stuff. Maybe a little too much.

1:03:14Adam Schafer:I'm pretty confident if you went up 500 calories, you'd be happy. I agree. You look pretty lean. What's your body fat percentage at?

1:03:21Justin Andrews:So I haven't done like a DEXA or any of the body fat tests. We have an in-body thing here at work, but I didn't do it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning or whatever. I have, I would say, you know, my abs are visible, especially if I flex them. But normally they're there. You know, you can see them.

1:03:38Adam Schafer:You're probably like, you're around 10%. Yeah, I'd say 9, 10 if I had to guess. Or 9. Yeah, 500 calorie increase just right out the gates. You'd have a lot of positive gains from that right out the gate. I mean, you can do the slow, really, really slow, you know, increase, which is very conservative. I'm, you know, Lane's got a great app, but a lot of it's geared towards trying to get people to get their metabolism to kind of go up with minimal or no fat gain. So it's extremely conservative. But yeah, I mean, you're a dude, you've been lifting weights for a while. You're lean, you know, otherwise healthy.

1:04:16Adam Schafer:A 500 calorie increase is not huge. And I think that would be like, that would, you would notice some really good strength gains right out the gate.

1:04:24Sal Di Stefano:Especially hearing a guy like you, who's telling me that you consistently lift and you try, I'm assuming you've been lifting that long. You probably got good technique. You probably lift good. Like, so the 500 calorie boost, watch, I think, I think in a week or two, like you'll feel, you'll feel stronger.

1:04:39Adam Schafer:Oh yeah.

1:04:40Sal Di Stefano:You'll, you'll, you'll feel your big lifts go up right away. And then you'll know, like, cause your big lifts go up right away from a 500 calorie boost. Then what follows right behind that is more muscle. you'll you'll you'll be right behind that so yeah i agree i think going up to 3 000 calories i think you're going to see a big difference how do you like are you following the 15 routine right now are you on the upper lower spot what do you want right now well so so right now like i i sent the

1:05:03Justin Andrews:question you guys obviously read it but i sent in the question you know that it's around november last year i started like my own modified kind of version of the 15 yeah um that i just basically do like like a compound lift like i'll do you know legs uh squats deadlift or something then paired like with triceps or biceps. Sure. And I've been doing it. And like I wrote in the email, I said, my 20, 30 and 40 year old self wish I would have known this volume approach because it's like I'm either maintaining or seeing improvements like you guys always preach, you know, and it's it's it was so hard for me to pivot from doing five, six, seven days a week.

1:05:37Justin Andrews:I've done for so many years to do so much less volume and seeing, you know, as good, if not potentially better results.

1:05:44Adam Schafer:Yeah.

1:05:44Justin Andrews:So that that's the part of the other part of the question was as far as the training, you know, what, what should I be looking at doing as far as that as well? I mean, it's not, I like what you're doing.

1:05:55Sal Di Stefano:I mean, we can, we can send you an, if you want another program to try out, we can send it to you. But I, if, if that's your approach, that's a good approach.

1:06:01Adam Schafer:Yeah. I mean, typically if you go in a calorie, if you start to bump calories, this is when you would want to bump volume, but I would rather you mess with one variable at a time instead of both at the same time. So I would just go up 500 calories, keep doing what you're doing. You're going to see great gains.

1:06:19Sal Di Stefano:I mean, his volume is naturally going to go up because he's going to get stronger.

1:06:21Adam Schafer:That's right. You're going to load the best one with intensity.

1:06:24Sal Di Stefano:I like exactly what you're doing and just pay attention to those big lifts. My prediction is within a week or two, you see your big lifts go up. You're going to go up in your big lifts. Keep stacking weight.

1:06:36Adam Schafer:What are your lifts at right now? What are you doing with your squats and your deadlifts? Like, give me an idea of your strength.

1:06:44Justin Andrews:So with that, for, you know, overall, my squats and my deadlifts really haven't been as much as I want them to be. And that was, I know that Adam throws in there the value of doing that symmetry, you know, at least once a year. I've had this nagging right hip thing on and off for years. So, you know, I don't do regular squat because I always notice I had like a right kind of hip shift. And I've gone to physical therapists, different people. they haven't helped me the zurcher squat i've been able to do that and and i can get up to like 185 pounds almost on that for a few reps you know so that's the kind of the workaround i've done and that hasn't bothered my hip as much um you know deadlift with the i'm not doing deadlifts this score on in november i was and i was up to like 275 uh deadlift you know um like this morning i worked out i was doing incline dumbbells with 50s you know a few sets of 15 reps so you know that that's kind of where I'm at with, with your strength's going to blow up.

1:07:41Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Your strength will go up. Do you, uh, do you tend to lean more towards like the higher 10 to 15 rep range, or do you tend to lean more towards like the low rep, like five rep range? What's more you?

1:07:51Justin Andrews:Well, again, lately what I've been doing, and since I was doing that upper body, lower body split, I vary it. I'll do a few weeks, you know, 15, 12 to 15 reps, and then I'll drop down to like six to eight, you know, just to kind of switch it up. But at the end of the day, I'm a creature of structure and habit, you know? So that's why I wanted your input on, on what program to follow, because I've kind of thrown this together and I think it's worked okay, but I really like the fact of, of having that program to follow the structure for the guidance, you know, to, to kind of give me an end point.

1:08:24Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:08:24Adam Schafer:So, so guy like you, who's, who's got a good feel for all this stuff. Cause you've been doing it for so long. A good idea would be go up 500 calories, stay what you're doing for the next four weeks. You'll see some good strength gains. Go up another 200 calories after that, and then go into map symmetry because symmetry's got a little more volume and then follow symmetry. So you'll be at 3 ,000 calories for four weeks and then you'll be at 3 ,200 calories following all the way through map symmetry. And by the end of that, I would expect probably a seven to eight pound gain in lean body mass, maybe five to seven pounds of lean body mass and maybe a couple pounds of body fat, but overall your body fat percentage will stay great because the lean body mass went up

1:09:08Sal Di Stefano:you'll look better you'll feel better and i'm willing to bet all your big lifts oh you're taught

1:09:13Adam Schafer:you talked to us about you'll see up oh yeah you're gonna see like a 20 30 pound increase on

1:09:16Justin Andrews:some of those lifts okay all right so then the 500 and then about a month after about a month

1:09:21Sal Di Stefano:do another 200 yeah when you when you switch to symmetry yeah so stick to what you're doing just go to 3 000 calories after a month then go to uh if you don't have map symmetry we'll send it to you. We then go to, thank you. Then go to map symmetry, follow it out. It's laid out the entire program with another 200 calories. And I'm with Sal, I think. And what's cool is the way map symmetry ends. You do all unilateral work, the front half, the last court, the last month of symmetry is like five by five traditional training. So you really get to see your strength expressed at the end. Yeah. So the unilateral work will be great for you.

1:09:55Sal Di Stefano:And then you'll go right into the, then you'll go into five by five, the final month. So that's a good layout for you.

1:10:01Justin Andrews:Awesome, man. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

1:10:03Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I'd love to hear back from you, Bert. I really, I think I want to hear where it happens.

1:10:07Justin Andrews:Yeah, I'll keep you guys in the loop. And one last thing, I know I'm limited on time, but I wanted to share this with you guys. I've been in the fire department now for about 25 years. Before I came into the fire department, I was actually a school teacher. So, you know, in my heart is education. I've been a training guy here for years with a lot of different things we've done within the department. But, you know, listening to you guys and the way that you guys have the training aspect of how you guys talk about helping people and everything that that really from listening to you guys has motivated me for my my career after this career, which I'm going to be focusing on on training people.

1:10:41Justin Andrews:I've always kind of helped people out here and there because they see me and they're like, oh, Bert, you know, you're the fitness guy, you work out and all this. But it's really given me an opportunity to have something after this, you know, after first responders many times leave their careers, they don't have an identity or something to identify with to, again, continue to help people. And I think watching and learning from you guys, you guys really have motivated me that that is my calling, you know, and that's something that I'm going to follow up on the next, you know, three to five years when I move on from the fire service.

1:11:09Justin Andrews:My kids are still going to be young, you know, but I think it'll be something that I'll be able to do on my own terms. I won't have to chase money. I won't have to chase anything. It'll be for my own, you know, fulfillment and enjoyment of helping others. But I wanted to thank you guys for that as well, because just, you know, the way that you guys talk about, you know, the training aspect and helping people. And, you know, there's a lot of value in that. And I really do appreciate that. Something personal to me that I wanted to thank you guys for as well. Thank you, man. You'll be great.

1:11:35Sal Di Stefano:Stay in touch. Yeah, stay in touch with us.

1:11:37Justin Andrews:Absolutely, man. Thank you so much. Take care.

1:11:41Adam Schafer:Yeah, I mean, easy. Easy calorie bump.

1:11:46Sal Di Stefano:You made a good point about Lane's thing. I just want to address that because I think we all have a lot of respect for Lane. I think Lane's awesome. I think his app is probably awesome. I think it's geared on the conservative side because the average person that he's probably putting on a reverse diet on there is somebody who is like low calorie, tried to lose weight their whole life. He's like a hard gainer type of person. Like a hard gainer person, you can throw a much bigger chunk of calories at that person and their body will respond. And there's also a couple like, you know, when I'm dealing with somebody where, because I understand the conservative approach, I totally get it.

1:12:24Adam Schafer:But when I'm dealing with somebody who's so afraid of gaining weight and so afraid of all this stuff, and I give them calorie bumps that are like 56 calories, 37 calories, 72 calories. it's uh we're they're staying in this micromanaged space of this kind of like fear and attachment to their macros which i get that but just you know after coaching people for so long it's like i want to get you out of that too and i think we're gonna be okay bumping 150 calories and i would rather not be so so just absolutely specific yeah with these tiny little bumps that just makes you feel even more like you're controlling every little step you know so but i get it i totally get it our next caller is latasha from tennessee hi latasha morning hey everybody um thank you very much for taking my call i never expected to be chosen i felt like i'd won a prize when i saw the email that you guys had picked me um so for some background um i've always been one

1:13:27Justin Andrews:that enjoyed exercise but i didn't really take it very seriously until after my son was born I had him at 32. I'm 49 now. I was consistent with exercising at home with like workout videos. But I know now that that was mostly just doing cardio. It never occurred to me to to pick up weights and do the progressive overload stuff that I know now. As far as my diet, my whole life It's really just been all over the place. I would eat too low of calories and then inevitably just completely throw it out and abandon it and just eat whatever I wanted to. And then December of 2024, I found that I was heavier than I have ever been in my whole life.

1:14:18and I was just at a loss because you try to look online and get some answers and

1:14:27Justin Andrews:it's all conflicting and you just don't know what to do. So an ad came across my Facebook page for online trainer company and I decided to take a chance on them. And I don't know if I can say the name of them on here with you guys, but the co-founder has a podcast also, and she has had Sal on as a guest before.

1:14:55Adam Schafer:Awesome. Yeah.

1:14:57Justin Andrews:So that was a really good experience. I committed to a year with them and I learned a lot, but it was a big investment for me financially. So I knew I was only going to be able to do a year. And so I did everything they told me to do. I was very disciplined, consistent. I wanted to learn as much as I could so that when my year was over, I would feel like I could go it on my own. And so one of the things that I did to try to make sure I felt comfortable doing it myself was I got my personal training certificate through NASM and researching how to do that is how I found Mind Pump. So I've been listening to you guys since I found that first episode so that's been about a year ago um

1:15:51and my question when I originally sent it in was my year was about to be over with Lindsay

1:15:59Justin Andrews:with my trainer and I didn't know I knew I wanted to do a maps program but I didn't know what I should do so i went with the super bundle because i saw that that would get me through a whole year and um so i went ahead and purchased that and then i saw the black friday sale that you guys

1:16:20Sal Di Stefano:were having back in november and i bought a whole bunch of stuff so you're set i think so um i want

1:16:30Justin Andrews:to do them all myself but my thinking was to if i ever got to a point where i'm training other people those would be good to have absolutely yeah smart so i just i guess i just want to know that i'm on the right track and i'm doing things in proper sequence i'm um i'm about to start phase two of anabolic and then of course my plan was to do performance after that but then i started thinking about i do have some imbalances and i know i'm weaker on my left side so then i thought maybe I should do symmetry instead or do you think it's still be okay to do performance well

1:17:06Adam Schafer:let's okay so let's back up for a second you're doing a great job yeah Natasha and I'm reading your email and it looks like you reverse dieted from uh 1400 to 2000 calories and in the process lost 10 pounds yes great job killer really good job and how how is that all going now where are you at are you still tracking are you moving out of that phase what's going on I am still tracking

1:17:29Justin Andrews:because I'm afraid anytime I try to do it on my own and just track protein, I go way over on fat. I love peanut butter and cheese and if I'm not watching the fat, I'll get way off. So I do track it. But right now, I stay between 2 ,100 and 2 ,200 calories. I'm getting 184 grams of protein, 200 carbs and 75 fat right now.

1:17:56Adam Schafer:You're doing great. You're doing great.

1:17:58Justin Andrews:That's not too much for protein. No, no, you're fine. You're in a great place.

1:18:02Adam Schafer:So here's the, and then here, there's the next phase for you with nutrition. Cause you're in this great place, the next phase. So it's another big hurdle. Okay. So like the initial hurdle people tend to go through is they start tracking. And then the next hurdle is increasing my calories. The fear of, Oh my God, am I getting all this body fat? So that's a hurdle. Now you're through that. And now you're in this kind of like, I track everything state. The next big hurdle is going to be moving out of that. So you kind of have this relaxed attitude around diet and don't feel like you have to count everything.

1:18:32Adam Schafer:It's a big hurdle, but that's the next one for you. So that's what you get to look forward to. But just like the previous ones, it's going to feel scary and there's going to be a little bit of back and forth. Okay, but I don't want you to be like worry about it. Don't fear it. It's coming. And when you get there, it's going to be great because you're not going to need, you're not going to feel like you need to track everything. you'll have tracking in your back pocket for those times when you want to kind of dip in and out of it see where things are at but you're not going to have to live there as far as the programming is concerned before you started maps anabolic what was your strength training like were you doing traditional strength training or was it the the videos and stuff that you talked about

1:19:10Justin Andrews:you know that you started okay lindsey lindsey had me on um she wanted to keep with the same schedule that I was working out when I was doing it five days a week. So she scheduled me something for, for those five days that I was normally doing it anyway, not to disrupt my routine. So she would have me lifting three days a week, um, upper body one day, lower body, the next, and then a full body.

1:19:33Adam Schafer:Okay, good.

1:19:34Justin Andrews:And then she had a day of yoga and a day of just doing core. Oh, great. Nice.

1:19:39Adam Schafer:And how did you, how do you feel with your, uh, with the traditional strength training lifts do you feel confident and solid or do you feel like it's still you know like i do

1:19:50Justin Andrews:i feel more confident and solid now obviously i've been doing it a year but there were times that i had to research how to do the proper form and all of that because i didn't have her right there with me okay um and then of course i've been looking at the um the maps programs and those videos and um i'm i'm doing a barbell back squat of 120 pounds right now wow great that's great and i weigh 116 so i figured that's awesome that's awesome you feel you feel confident and solid in it stable everything feels good yes but i was gonna ask i've i've been hearing you guys talk about more about like getting a more range of motion with the the back squat and getting all the way down and if i don't have any weight i can get all the way down so i don't think i have any mobility issues with that but at that weight i can't get all the way lower the way so yeah so

1:20:45Adam Schafer:i'm going to give you some advice with this so it's a slow it's so increasing range of motion uh you want to respect it this is where injury happens when people push it too fast and too far and so you would cut the weight way down so if you're squatting 120 go down to 60 and go down very controlled, very tight, and go down like a few inches lower than you're used to. Not all the way down, like a few inches. Pause at the bottom, stay tight, come up, and just really make the weight feel hard through control and stability. That's how you increase range of motion. What you don't want to do is just push yourself to go all the way down with a heavy weight because you don't have the stability yet, and that's where injury happens.

1:21:27Adam Schafer:So you would literally go 50%. It's like a big cut in weight. Slow way down, even pause at the bottom, and just make sure you're connected to every bit of that rep.

1:21:36Sal Di Stefano:Latasha, are you in our private forum yet? I'm on the school forum. Okay, I'm going to have Doug put you in the Mind Pump private forum. One of my favorite things that people do in there is you've got a bunch of coaches, trainers, a lot of our people that are in there, and they'll share videos of their squat, their deadlift, to get feedback. And so we're all on there too. And so if you're working on a movement like that and you're trying to, and just do prop your phone up, get a video of yourself squatting or deadlifting and, and you'll get, I mean, we got Dr. Brink in there. We've got brilliant minds that can look at the movement and give you great cues or say great job.

1:22:16Sal Di Stefano:You're looking perfect or whatever. The forum's great for that. And so I'm going to get you in there so you can use that for that reason.

1:22:22Adam Schafer:Do you have a prime pro? I do. Good. So, so, so for a trainer, especially very, valuable, but go through that. And you mentioned, you noticed some imbalance differences between right and left, which is very common. Go in there, pick a couple movements for the areas that you think you might need help, whether it's hip or ankle or shoulder, whatever, and just practice those movements and stay connected to throughout the entire way that you're doing the movement. That'll help a lot with that. I think performance is great. If you want to try scaling back and working on unilateral stuff if you don't have maps 15 symmetry i'll send that to you uh it's oh good so maps 15 symmetry would be another great program to move to because you're only a year into this um and then after that you can jump i mean i like i like performance too though

1:23:11Sal Di Stefano:because it's going to address a lot of the mobility it's in there they're both good this

1:23:15Adam Schafer:is really just you being like yeah do i do i want to drop the scale scale the volume any of those

1:23:19Sal Di Stefano:three you can't go wrong. Math 15, uh, symmetry, symmetry, asymmetry or performance or any of those three are great choices after anabolic and where you're at right now. Okay.

1:23:31Justin Andrews:So, um, so getting my range of motion better with my squat and lowering the weight. Should I do that? Go ahead and start doing that now during anabolic.

1:23:40Sal Di Stefano:Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:23:43Justin Andrews:And then should I increase my calories from where they are? I'm at 2200. How do you feel? um i feel like it's kind of difficult to get that much protein in and i know if i increase the calories much increase the protein as well um no no you don't you're good i still get hungry

1:24:02Sal Di Stefano:so if you're hungry your protein's your protein's fine you can get it from carbs or fat either one

1:24:07Adam Schafer:in fact you mentioned something that makes me think that it might be fat that you need yeah that's where you tend to go when you're when you're eating what you you know where you're kind of eating and following yes okay so why don't you bump your calories with some fats okay

1:24:22Justin Andrews:that's great just gave you the green light um yeah you can go up 100 calories of fats go ahead okay um when i finished anabolic i was thinking of doing just like a mini cut like decrease the calories for maybe three weeks and then go into maintenance for one week during whether i'm doing symmetry of performance yep that'd be good perfectly yeah perfectly fine this is a great

1:24:45Adam Schafer:place for you latasha because and i want you to feel it out and really take note of what you observe and how you feel this is going to make you a good trainer because your clients are going to feel all the stuff as well and once you experience it you'll be able to communicate

1:24:59Sal Di Stefano:it so much better there's a lot of other trainers in the private forum too so good good resource for you to communicate with a lot of other coaches and trainers that are early in their career been doing it for a long time you got all of it in there yeah i've been enjoying the school forum

1:25:12Justin Andrews:good good i've asked you a few questions on there and that um elevator pitch yeah exercise that's a lot it's gonna take me a long time to get through all those but i'm gonna try

1:25:25Adam Schafer:that's great you're doing great yeah this is great this is a great i'm so glad you called in this was

1:25:30Justin Andrews:great um and one more question if that's okay um could i substitute in anabolic could i substitute the z press for the shoulder press i've heard adam talk about it absolutely have you tried it yet that'd be okay yeah i haven't tried it yet i watched a video how to do it yeah yeah oh you

1:25:50Adam Schafer:got to go real light yeah so but yeah absolute great great substitution no problem i prefer that

1:25:54Justin Andrews:i prefer you to do that yeah i love that all right um i think that's all i had great questions make sure i was had my programming right and i was doing that and and about the

1:26:07Sal Di Stefano:macros and the good job doing a great job yeah you're totally on track yep stay in touch with

1:26:11Justin Andrews:us okay all right thanks for making yourself so accessible oh yeah thank you thank you keep it up

1:26:17Adam Schafer:okay thanks bye-bye you know it's encouraging uh for for me personally when uh people like her call in, is good trainers are getting into the space. She's got the right motives. Her character sounds good. Yeah. Her logic and reasoning through all this is on point. Yeah, she's humble. She'll be a great coach. She'll be able to help a lot of people. It makes me feel good.

1:26:43Sal Di Stefano:Her experience that she's going through will be able to translate really well to coaching people. Totally. Our next caller is Alexandra from New York.

1:26:52Adam Schafer:Alexandra. How are you?

1:26:54Justin Andrews:Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

1:26:56Adam Schafer:Yeah, how are you? How can we help you?

1:26:59Justin Andrews:Good. So my name is Alexandra. I'm 30 years old. I'm a special education teacher. I played sports my whole life, mostly basketball through high school. And then in college, I was a division one javelin thrower. And that is where I learned about strength. So I really fell in love with strength. And I started powerlifting after that for about five years. While I've achieved a lot athletically, everything was kind of against the backdrop of severe binge eating, restricting, and overexercising. I took a break from powerlifting, just continuing to lift for aesthetics. But currently, I started running Max Powerlifts because I find that working on strength takes my focus off of my appearance and is better for my mental health regarding fitness.

1:27:42Justin Andrews:However, I still really struggle with badly binge eating, restricting, and overexercising. Even though I eat mostly whole foods and keep nothing processed in my apartment, I find myself spiraling and binging on random healthy foods like rice cakes and oatmeal. I've gained a lot of weight over the years from this binge restrict cycle, and I just so badly want to feel normal around food and enjoy a meal out with my family or my boyfriend without obsessing over calories and macros. I have a master's degree in nutrition, and I've worked with countless coaches, therapists, and dieticians, but this is something I can't seem to move past as much as I know the logic and the science behind it.

1:28:21Justin Andrews:It's really frustrating because I put so many hours into training and so much energy into my diet and trying to figure this out, but I feel like I have nothing to show for it. I currently run 15 to 20 miles per week. I lift four times a week with MAPS PowerLift, and I do Peloton cycling classes on my days that I don't run. I eat 1 ,400 to 1 ,600 calories a day, but my binging negates any progress that I ever make and I always feel like I'm starting over. Your show has helped me so much over the years, but I still really struggle with balance and I would appreciate any advice you can give me on this.

1:28:56Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:28:57Adam Schafer:Thanks for calling in. Yep. I can tell right now you're really excessively hard on yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And just by the way you're talking about it, how hard you are on yourself, that shame is contributing to this whole cycle and process. So number one, you got to give yourself a little bit of grace. You're doing great. You said you binge on healthy foods. And then you said, you know, essentially what I hear from you is how disappointed you are in yourself. And you don't reflect fitness. First of all, you do reflect fitness. I could tell just by looking at your shoulders. I think anybody who knows you would probably say that.

1:29:38Adam Schafer:And I don't think you would treat a friend or a family member or somebody that you were helping the same way you're treating yourself. And so that's the root of this. The root of this is that shame spiral. And we need to interrupt that. And it's not natural to interrupt it. What's natural for you is what you've always done. Okay. So it's going to feel very awkward and weird to interrupt all of this. So we got to start with, let's back up for a second. What does it feel like when you're binging?

1:30:07Justin Andrews:Very out of control.

1:30:09Adam Schafer:Okay.

1:30:09Justin Andrews:And sometimes it feels like, this sounds weird to say, but it almost feels like a relief sometimes. Cause it's like, I'm not like tracking anything or weighing anything. And I'm just like, oh, like I could breathe. Like, and I've definitely noticed that like, that's something cause I've been trying to pay more attention recently to like, like how it feels and stuff. And that's something I've noticed. It feels like a relief, but it also feels like very out of control. And like, I have to get it in now because I'm not going to get it later.

1:30:38Adam Schafer:Yeah. That's because you needed the break. Because before the binge, you were starving yourself. And you were tyrannizing yourself. Yes. So it's like you live under the roof of a parent that's just constantly criticizing you, constantly controlling you with shame and criticism and control. And then you just can't handle anymore. And you escape just to get a break for a day. So you can come back to that, that household that criticizes you. And part of the fear is that if you don't criticize yourself and control yourself, that you're going to live in that escape. So if I don't control this all the time then that binge is going to be how i'm going to be all the time but that's a lie that's actually a lie it's not true that's actually a lie the binge and the escape and the relief that you feel is coming from the over control and criticism and hate uh that you're that you're you're giving

1:31:38Sal Di Stefano:to yourself it's also coming from your body screaming at you that you need to feed me on top of it you with uh the amount of training running and cycling you're doing yeah 1600 calories is starving your body like you should be double that with that kind of activity yeah so and so you're doing that for days on i don't know how many days in a row you get of 1600 calories in training that way and your body is trying to tell you every day we need a lot more fuel than this we need a lot more fuel than this and then you finally break and so part of what sal's saying is true so is also the part that you need to be fed way more than that yeah way more than that so you're not only are you wrestling with the this psychological thing that you're going back and forth and punishing yourself thing but you're also wrestling with your body needs way more than that that's like a double whammy the the answer is somewhere in the middle of this and you'll be okay especially if you're a whole foods eater like you're gonna be you're gonna be all right do you do can you

1:32:35Adam Schafer:do you think is would it be too much to cut down your training and eat more would that be too big

1:32:40Justin Andrews:of a step and you can be totally honest I mean I worked with a coach and I did it before and I cut my running like in half and I I was so scared that I was gonna like blow up because I've been doing that for so many years like I've been running so much for so many years but like I didn't but I think that adding food in addition to that would be like scary for me and that's that's really what I feel like because I know I need to eat more like I know that the binging is like my body wanting more food.

1:33:08Sal Di Stefano:Yes.

1:33:08Justin Andrews:Except for things I'm binging on like rice cakes and oatmeal. Like I'm not even binging on like junk food anymore. It's more of just like whatever I can get. Um, so I know that my body needs more food, but I feel so guilty when I do eat more food and then that will set off me into like a spiral.

1:33:26Adam Schafer:Yeah. So, uh, let's take one step. Let's take one step first. Uh, And it is going to be scary. So it's going to suck. But we do got to take a step. So it's going to be either eat more or it's going to be train less. And you can pick which one. And the next step is going to – now here's the thing I got to communicate to you. You're not going to think your way out of this because I think you know all the stuff. And I think you did what the coach told you because you were like, okay, this is the right thing to do. But it never moved from your head to your heart. In other words, it never became like you felt this was the right thing.

1:34:00Adam Schafer:It was like, I know this is the right thing, but it still feels like I got to beat myself up. It still feels like I got to go back, which is why you probably went back to so much running and why you kind of, whatever, rebounded or whatever, you know, word you want to use. So you're not going to think your way out of this. So what we have to do is we have to change your, just the feeling around it. You know, we have to change your heart essentially, which means you're going to have to interrupt some of these cycles and that's going to be really uncomfortable. So here's what that looks like. A lot of pausing, a lot of reflecting, a lot of journaling.

1:34:30Adam Schafer:and you're not going to want to. In the middle of a binge or right before a binge, the last thing you're going to want to do is take out a piece of paper and write what you're feeling because all we want to do in that state of mind is stay totally out of mind. We want to just let go because that's all we want, and so we have to interrupt that with journaling. And the journaling might look like I just want to eat 15 rice cakes or I just want to go crazy on oatmeal. And then you just keep writing and keep writing. And then it may be like, I actually need to eat more. I think the reason why I feel this way is because I'm eating too little.

1:35:08Adam Schafer:And then keep writing and keep writing. I just want to go. I just want to stop. I hate this. And then keep writing and then keep writing. And then stop and then go do what you need to do. And then when you're done with it, come back and you're going to write again. And what you're going to write is, I love you. I forgive you. This is hard. This is tough. I'm going to keep moving and it's going to suck. It's going to feel super awkward. It's going to feel like I don't want to do this, but it's a, it has, you have to interrupt those behaviors and start that process. And so it's got to be a conscious effort of making yourself feel awkward through this process.

1:35:42Adam Schafer:But I would start with personally, I would prefer you to eat more first, but if you feel like that's too big of a step, cut down your exercise. And then when you feel like I can take the next step and take the next step,

1:35:55Sal Di Stefano:this is um i mean i would i would love for you to work with one of our coaches just because i feel like sal and us are trying to cram all this in in one call and this is not a one call conversation it's not a like like no matter how smart we are and all the answers that we can give you this will take like six months yeah this is it's it's hard and it will be hard and there'll be we can give you all the right answers you can go start to apply them and then you're going to have a challenge, a plateau, a setback, a struggle, and to not have the coach in your ear to go like, hey, you're doing a great job.

1:36:30Sal Di Stefano:This is perfect. This is exactly what I expect. That's the hard part. We can tell you all day long what you need to do. I feel like you know what you kind of need to do. It's kind of having somebody along that process through you. If you were open to going with a coach, I'd love one of my trainers to work through this with you because I know that it's not easy.

1:36:50Adam Schafer:A positive self-talk is so powerful. If you can just start incorporating that somehow,

1:36:55Sal Di Stefano:whether journaling or saying it to yourself or, you know, really giving yourself that grace is going to move the needle for sure.

1:37:02Adam Schafer:Alexandra, it probably feels so weird to try to give yourself grace because you're afraid if you give yourself too much grace, then you're going to go off the deep ends and get obese.

1:37:12Justin Andrews:Yeah. Like I am so scared that like once I stop tracking or once I stop like weighing myself that I'm just going to blow up.

1:37:20Adam Schafer:That's right.

1:37:20Justin Andrews:And like, I'm, I also like, I'm so used to being an athlete where like, you just do more. And I'm, I'm also like 15 years removed from that. So I don't know why, like, I'm so stuck in that mindset, but I can't seem to like break out of it.

1:37:37Adam Schafer:Yeah. Stop, stop right there. You're doing it again. Yeah. You're giving yourself, you're beating yourself up a little bit. Super normal. Yep. This is almost everybody in the fitness industry. Yep. Okay. Every trainer and fitness influencer knows exactly what you're talking about. But I'm telling you right now, it's a lie. It's a lie that if you don't beat yourself up, that the other end of that is worse. You can't hate yourself into better health. That's what you're feeling right now. It feels like mental turmoil, which is what I hear from you, right? But it's a total lie that if I don't hate myself and I don't keep my thumb on myself and I don't control myself, I'm going to go in this crazy other direction.

1:38:18Adam Schafer:So I have to do that. And then every once in a while, I interrupt that with like a freedom break. Like I can't handle this anymore. This pressure is too much. So now what a coach is going to do, because giving yourself grace is so, is going to be so. It's alien. You're not going to want to do it is you're going to outsource the grace. So you're going to go to your coach and you're going to say, and the more honest you are with the coach, the more effective they're going to be. So it's going to be like, oh my God, I feel like, you got to be totally honest. Don't be, try to be logical. Oh my God, I feel like such an idiot.

1:38:44Adam Schafer:it or I can't believe I'm doing this again. And the coach is going to give you grace and then accept it. And then that's going to teach you to do it for yourself. And again, we're cramming this in a 10 minute conversation, but the process is going to be, you're going to hit these roadblocks. You're going to totally stumble. I promise you're going to stumble throughout the whole process, but little by little by little, it's going to start to change for you. And you're probably six months away from a radically different relationship with this kind of stuff. So, So that's kind of what it's going to look like.

1:39:13Adam Schafer:But, I mean, Adam's right. Working with somebody through this process is going to be your best bet for sure.

1:39:20Justin Andrews:Yeah, I mean, I've dealt with this for, like, 17 years at this point. So six months sounds, like, very fast. You know, it's like, okay, what's six more months? But I'm also, like, a little jaded because I've worked with so many coaches and people that, you know, promised they were going to help, and then they just threw meal plans at me. And then the second I went off the meal plan by a crumb, I was spiraled.

1:39:44Sal Di Stefano:That's not what you need. That's not what you need. You don't need a macro coach. No, no, no, no. That's the wrong. No, man. No, no, no, no. That's the opposite. That's not what you need. That's the opposite of what you need. When we hang up, we can have one of our coaches call you, one of our trainers. Yeah, we know the perfect one. Yeah, who's been coached and trained by us, and we oversee all the programs. So that's not what it looks like.

1:40:02Adam Schafer:You don't need macro counting. You don't need, like, this crazy structure, follow this diet plan. That's not your solution.

1:40:08Justin Andrews:him yeah no i've tried every single macro amount and no no no yeah yeah i just need to like be okay with eating and also too like i always think about it too like i've gained weight over the years but for the most part my body has stayed within the same probably 10 pounds yeah but and that's with binging so if i would just eat more every day like i probably wouldn't gain weight so i like And logically, I know that.

1:40:37Adam Schafer:You can't. It's got to get out of your head. You're not going to think you're out of it. You have to feel it. You're just not feeling it.

1:40:42Sal Di Stefano:Well, this is the reason why I'm pointing towards the coaches, because this is not a you don't know, and it's not a mathematical equation that we can answer for you in one phone call. And then you're like, oh, perfect. Now I can go and do it. That's not the answer. It's a step-by-step process. And it will be hard. And there will be setbacks. And there'll be moments in this process where you'll get frustrated. You'll want to beat yourself up. the good coach will tell you no you're doing great this is perfect this is right where i want you like that's that's what that it's a process and you and that's what you have to go through it's not a it's not a mathematical formula you're missing here's why i think you're gonna do great

1:41:16Adam Schafer:because you you went on a a a public podcast you're talking about you're very honest yep you're not holding anything back lots of courage yeah dude so it's like by the way it's the biggest hardest step yes if i can't get somebody to do what you're doing there's no help there's no hope but you're like coming out you're talking about it you're very honest about it uh i think you're

1:41:37Sal Di Stefano:going to do perfectly fine the other side of this is awesome the other side of this is really it's going to feel relaxed yeah you're gonna like this a lot way less effort way less holding on and a healthier fitter stronger version of yourself totally yeah and fuller get to eat more yeah yeah that sounds nice yes yes well when we hang up we'll have we'll have one of our coaches call you and then uh look forward to seeing you yeah thank you thank you guys so much thank you thanks

1:42:05Adam Schafer:for calling in bye poor kid yeah i feel that yeah yeah no there's there's nothing you say in this call listen i'll use myself i'll use myself as an example i know everything about this stuff like i talk about it that's what i do for a living i've been doing this forever it's hard for me to do it to myself yeah it is it is it's totally different i can't think my way through it no it just doesn't work you got to feel you got to learn how to feel differently which is a very different

1:42:29Sal Di Stefano:different much more difficult process yeah the middle for her is probably so i mean eat 1600 and then she probably binges like crazy because your body's so hungry she could probably cruise

1:42:38Adam Schafer:around she's got the mental and physical signals that are just going crazy oh yeah i mean she

1:42:41Sal Di Stefano:could probably cruise around 23 2500 calories easy eating full balanced and half the training

1:42:47Adam Schafer:and see incredible results that's right our next caller is joe from texas joe what's happening how

1:42:52Sal Di Stefano:you doing joe hey how's it going guys good dude what's going on hey uh first thanks for taking my

1:42:58Justin Andrews:questions uh hopefully be very helpful i'm sure um i guess i'll just read the email it's easiest thing people do seems like uh so i started with uh should i skip leg day i know you always hear never skip leg day um my question that is because i naturally have a lot of muscle mass in my lower body um just kind of like family genes i guess um no pun intended um so we're a background i guess I've been a cop for 17 years. I kind of worked out the whole time doing that. Started with a lot of CrossFit. Finally came to my senses, moved away from that. About seven or eight years ago, found out I had really low testosterone.

1:43:40Justin Andrews:So I started TRT. So that's definitely helped with the, like, muscle responsiveness, the workouts. But unfortunately, that also includes my, like, quads and my glutes. So when I use squats and lower body stuff, like it's super responsive and just blows up. But I end up with, uh, to quote the, uh, like, I guess the philosophers, the yin gang twins, cute face, slim waist, but a big behind. So I've got big quads, um, but like a 32 inch waist. So if I buy pants or shorts that fit my waistline, they're super tight on my legs and my butt. But if I go up to say a 34 where they fit comfortably around my legs and my butt, then they're super baggy around my waistline.

1:44:21Adam Schafer:so just looking for some insight there yeah good problem to have bro the reason why people say don't skip leg day is because they always skip leg day yeah because well because they have no

1:44:29Sal Di Stefano:legs and they have all upper body yeah that's not your problem no yeah dude i this is i think um i think everybody has a body part not everybody's lucky enough for it to be legs and butt uh but everybody has a body part that responds really well that you can get away with doing very minimal volume and skipping it all the time.

1:44:50Adam Schafer:As long as you're strong, I mean, you're strong, right? Balanced. It's not like your legs. You've been training for a while. You've trained your whole body for a while, right? Yeah, so I guess just to throw some numbers at you, when I

1:45:00Justin Andrews:was tracking my maxes, which I haven't done in a while, just to kind of prevent injury, deadlift one rep was like 450. Squat was like 350. And then bench is around 265, I think. Yeah.

1:45:15Adam Schafer:You can very easily, and I don't recommend this often, but you're trying to work on aesthetics. I mean, you could literally train your legs every other week. Yeah, that's exactly what I do. Once every two weeks, I'd train my legs. And that'll keep them healthy, keep them strong, fit. You're not going to get weak or anything like that. Yep. And you're just obviously much more focused on the upper body to help balance out. Just maintaining it. That's it. Yeah.

1:45:38Justin Andrews:Okay, cool. Yeah, because I definitely don't want to lose any strength. I don't have a problem with getting them stronger. It just seems like when I do anything to work them out, to get them stronger, they immediately just start blowing.

1:45:47Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Well, there's not an exercise that's going to get them stronger and not build them if you respond like that. Like, that's just what it is. And again, it's not a bad reason. Sal's right. If you train once every two weeks, you're not going to get weak. Nope. You'll be fine. They'll stay healthy. They'll stay healthy. They'll be strong. And mix it up. Like, it's squatting one time. Another time, it's walking lunges. Other time, it's deadlift. Or sled. Yeah. Sometimes it's a lateral, yeah, lateral drags. I mean, just mess with the different things you do for them every other week and they'll stay strong, mobile, fit.

1:46:20Sal Di Stefano:Totally. And then use that reduced volume there to put it in the areas that you want to develop. Yep. Whether that be chest, shoulders, arms, back, whatever the other things you want to really focus on.

1:46:30Adam Schafer:You can give it about a year and you'll see yourself start to balance out. Awesome. I appreciate it, fellas. You got it, man. Yeah. Thanks for calling in, brother. Yeah, you got to have a good one. You too. Take it easy. that's not common but it's i mean it's a justin problem

1:46:44Sal Di Stefano:justin squats once every three months yeah i mean can you do you do you at all seriousness do you uh i do this with my arms right because yeah i i trade volume i'll go i'll go sometimes three weeks not even trade my arms at all and then you know the advice you guys give especially like alternating that too with like sled or more functional move i really it's a movement based So I try to maintain strength in my abilities more so than like trying to get leg development. I don't really need leg development. Right. Like I don't think I've ever really seen you like squat like three weeks in a row, twice a week.

1:47:20Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:47:21Adam Schafer:Not since like football days.

1:47:22Sal Di Stefano:Like I don't think I ever see you like progressively overloading the squat. Like you're always doing something.

1:47:26Adam Schafer:I do that when my quads grow really fast. So I train. The volume I do for my quads is way lower than the rest of my body because they just respond really well. The thing is as long as you're strong and fit. So here's when this becomes an issue. You're just not strong at all. You just started working out, and you're like, I just want to skip this body part. No, no, no. Get it strong and fit. Yeah, yeah. Because now you're going to create some real dysfunction. No, he's deadlifting over 400 pounds.

1:47:48Sal Di Stefano:You're squatting over 300 pounds. You're fine, dude. You're fine. That's plenty good strength. And if you also say that you've got thick, big legs, you're good.

1:47:56Adam Schafer:Look, if you like this show, come find us on Instagram, Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

1:48:06Justin Andrews:and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com.

1:48:51Justin Andrews:If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.