2809 : Is Cardio Ideal For Fat Loss?

21:40Adam Schafer:When I was an early trainer, I thought, man, those members must eat the worst diets ever. But then you get to know them. You talk to them. And I talked to one guy and, you know, they knew I was a trainer and then a fitness manager. And so I was talking diet. And the first guy's telling me what he's eating. And you know what I'm thinking? Lie. Lies. There's no way that's what you're eating. There's no way.

21:59Sal Di Stefano:Underestimating.

21:59Adam Schafer:And then I talked to another one. Same thing. Lies. By the fourth or fifth one, I was like, are they all lying to me? This can't be right. This doesn't make any sense. Meanwhile, I'm a trainer, personal training people, and I'm focused on strength training, mainly because at the time because as a trainer what a waste of time to have to have a cardio have a client do cardio while i'm watching i know i was like get them strong yeah so so you strength training let me take you out in the gym and we do and i'm watching my clients get leaner get more fit they're eating more than the people in the cardio and then i started to piece this together oh maybe it's the form of exercise and same thing with my group x instructors but yeah

22:38Sal Di Stefano:it's so funny because you look back at that i was so confused by it like why is this working because it to your other points of like the the whole math problem it's like calories in now so you start looking at things that burn and so you look at and then we used to like track it and we're like okay whatever it's telling me on the cardio equipment like you could see it you know this is actually burning whatever 250 calories some like arbitrary number that's probably not even close to being accurate. And then you look it up and then you look at this, I forget whatever book it was, it would start highlighting each exercise, what you actually burned from weight training.

23:13Sal Di Stefano:And it wasn't even close. And so you start leaning more towards the cardio to handle the fat to then build them up in the strength once you get the fat off. This is why the StairMaster got so popular because of the calorie burn. Because on the machine itself, it gave you the highest number. Yeah, and people get drenched in sweat.

23:30Adam Schafer:Which, by the way, people need to know this. cardio manufacturers would change the number once they realized that people would pick the cardio that showed the highest calorie burn because nobody checks. Nobody cares. It's not like a scientist come in and go, actually the elliptical is burning. They just put it up there. So they would literally, cardio manufacturers would make sure that their machines showed higher calorie burn because they knew that more people would use it. Did you hear the

23:54Sal Di Stefano:clip or did you listen to the clip of Dorian Yates? Oh, where he was talking to Huberman? Yeah. So I watched

24:00Adam Schafer:some of that.

24:00Sal Di Stefano:Did you watch what he talked about how he does his uh his cardio no six minutes no oh i wish you would have watched it no no i didn't see that one that's why i sent it to you guy well you know why because i saw so many clips it was only a minute and a half he had listened it's too long he taught he taught maybe doug could pull it up because it's literally only a minute and a half for us to listen to because i i was super intrigued by this uh and there's and i guess there is a uh they call it they call it um uh one i think yeah Yeah, one minute of cardio. And it is three bouts of all-out 20 seconds.

24:32Sal Di Stefano:So it ends up being, it's called one-minute cardio, but it's six total minutes. And it's basically three -

24:37Adam Schafer:So it's interval, essentially.

24:38Sal Di Stefano:It's three 20-second all-outs. And he breaks down the benefits and the research to compare it to an hour worth of cardio. Yeah. And the amount of calorie burn and benefits and everything that you get, and I believe that it's called -

24:54Adam Schafer:So I'm not familiar with that specifically, but I am familiar with the data around that form of cardio.

25:00Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I'm familiar with the data around HIIT cardio. We've talked about this before. I'm familiar. I've never heard of this, and I heard Dorian Yates talking about it with Huberman.

25:08Adam Schafer:It's got huge VO2 max benefits, health benefits, stamina benefits. Here's the problem, though. If you take most everyday people and you have them sprint all out for 20 seconds, it's inappropriate for them. It's just a fact, you guys.

25:25Sal Di Stefano:Well, he's actually pitching it on your thing you like. Oh, the elliptical? No, no, no. No, no. What you really like. Oh, the salt bike? Salt bike. Thank you.

25:38Adam Schafer:Yeah, I don't think it's inappropriate because of the technique. A salt bike would make sense. I think it's inappropriate. Did you find it, Doug, for me?

25:43Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I found a clip. Oh, I have it if you don't have it. Okay. You still got to meet it, Doug. Anyway, play it because I want Sal to hear it. Oh, we got to hear it. Yeah, we're going to play it. Yeah. I'll play the one you sent. Yeah. And you can just clip it in, Dylan. Yeah, I just thought, you know, it made me want to go listen to the whole interview so I could hear Huberman and him go back and forth on it. But what caught my attention was, you know, comparing it to like a whole hour of cardio, I thought was really fascinating. And done on that bike, for your point, risk versus reward.

26:17Adam Schafer:No, it's not the technique that I'm worried about. It's literally the exertion.

26:21Sal Di Stefano:Well, I mean, the average, well, yeah, he's like, watch, let's do it. Here we go. Six minutes, like on an air bike. It's my favorite because it engages every muscle, push, pull, legs. If you do a 20-second all out, you got on the side of the thing, you can see how much watts you're generating. So now you have a target to hit or exceed every time. So do a minute, minute and a half warm-up, whatever. Feel warm, all out, balls out like the devil's chasing you for 20 seconds. First one's tough, but it's okay. Go down slowly for a minute.

26:52Justin Andrews:Do the second one all out. The second one's really tough. The third one is I've never met anybody that wants to do one after the third one because literally you can't breathe.

27:01Adam Schafer:And the benefits from that, again, I think there's a book called The One Minute Cardio. It's a bit tricky because it's not really one minute. It's one minute of sprints, but it's six minutes in total. And they compared that to 45 minutes of steady cardio on a treadmill

27:16Sal Di Stefano:or whatever it is. And the results are more or less the same. So it's 45 minutes. I thought I was 60, but still.

27:22Adam Schafer:So, yes, but think of the typical client, the average 40-something-year-old that comes in and train with our trainers and have them go all out 20 seconds. No.

27:33Sal Di Stefano:It's not going to be good. So, again, I found this.

27:37Adam Schafer:For someone who's really fit, healthy. Yeah, I found this very interesting for us. Yes.

27:40Sal Di Stefano:Oh, that's totally. Yeah, my average client, we're all huge fans of steps and lists, right? Like getting them on there for 45 minutes, just the movement of that. I think there's lots of benefits. It's also recuperative. Yeah, that's what I mean. The benefits of moving the body for 45 minutes. But coming from this, I'm like, oh, this is an interesting strategy. And I've actually never heard. You know what's funny about that? I was doing that just kind of intuitively anyways. Well, it's basically HIIT training from how he's describing it. I might have gotten a little longer than that. But, you know, just because the salt bike isn't as, like, impact-driven.

28:18Sal Di Stefano:So it's not, like, quite as bad. But, yeah, your average person doesn't even know how to move fast yet. No. Which you have to get all the pretty curses to that.

28:25Adam Schafer:For a lot of people, I'm one of these. Because I know the way they're selling it. Six minutes versus 45 minutes, right? Oh, my God, I'd much rather do six. I wouldn't. I'd much rather do 45 minutes and listen to something and go, you tell me to do something like that, I've got to psych myself off.

28:39Sal Di Stefano:To your point, there's a lot of recuperative benefits to moving the body. I mean, one of my favorite things to walk when I walk 45 minutes is post-meal. And so I'm getting the digestive benefits. I'm getting the meditative benefits. It's relaxing to actually do that. So there's a calming part. And to the conversation that we just had, I feel like getting people to de-stress and calm down, that is definitely not a strategy for that. I thought it was interesting. I still don't think that changes whatever changed my recommendation

29:11Adam Schafer:for fit healthy people it could be something interesting I know Justin would love that because he loves he's got two gears all out or stop

29:18Sal Di Stefano:that's probably why I was inclined to do that that's why he likes to assault how can I do cardio angrily everything angry yeah but then like even as I get older now the conversation we just had talking about the amount of time throughout your day, you should be in parasympathetic. And think about that. Like just the little stuff that you don't think is like compounding on the stress you already have. Like just looking at your phone and carrying that all day long. You're really not in good parasympathetic state unless you're intentionally doing it. I can't wait for the audience to hear that interview that we just did.

29:55Sal Di Stefano:I thought that was a really fun. Yeah, that one got me a bit. Good conversation from a doctor from both sides, right? So really cool to hear. and just validate, too, what we communicate a lot to the people that call into this show. And we get a lot of flack from our space, normally from young, naive trainers that think they're really smart. Oh, these guys are always telling people, do less, do less. Well, you know where that comes from. It's because you're weak.

30:25Adam Schafer:It's lack of experience. Bunch of boomers. Get your canes out. Scott, he's a doctor. He's a licensed physician, but he also works in preventative. And he works with a lot of people. And if you're a trainer and you've been training people for a decade and you work with a lot of people, you're going to sound like us. That's to say, you have that experience. But if you're young and you're new and you just became a trainer and you're just reading the science and you just train yourself and you're 23 years old or whatever, yeah, you're going to be like, no, get after it. That's what you got to do because that's what works.

30:57Adam Schafer:And it's like, that's not how it really works. Dorian Yates is, I love Dorian. And I all respect. I mean, he's a character. he's one of my i grew up in the 90s uh when and that's when i was into bodybuilding and he was mr olympia and he's awesome he but he communicates strength training from his lens and he's he does a good job and it's hard to argue against the guy that once mr olympia you know that many times but he he argues it from that lens and and basically says anything around volume with training anything around frequent like it's all garbage it's only intensity and uh i mean i'd hate to tell him to his face because he'd be like, I won Mr.

31:34Adam Schafer:Olympia. What about you? That's not the truth. That's not the real truth. There's some value in what he says, but that's not the full story.

31:44Sal Di Stefano:Again, that was interesting to me for me. I thought that was an interesting... Did you hear Dorian

31:50Adam Schafer:talk crap about Israel Tell? No, I didn't. So somebody asked Israel Tell about Mike Menser and about his method of training and so the way that israel countered it he was trying to be funny as he's like he did a little science right and then because mike mentzer is like the originator one of the bodybuilders that popularized that style of training where it's like one set all out heavy duty that's it and so he's like and i look way better than mike mentzer and he got blasted for that so everyone's like you look like a like a fat piece of crap compared to mike mentzer and dorian just rusted like if you're going to debate a bodybuilder about science, what you don't bring up is if you look, that you look better.

32:32Adam Schafer:How they look. Because that's why they're pro bodybuilders. I know. You know? So that's like, you're going to lose the argument, bro. Yeah. No matter how good your science is.

32:39Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I got to find. Was it on that interview or was it a different one? Yeah, dude.

32:41Adam Schafer:I think it was that one, but I heard him in some other interviews where he's just, yeah, he's talking about like.

32:45Sal Di Stefano:You said you think that Huberman worked with him. Is that true?

32:47Adam Schafer:Do you know? I believe Huberman, Dorian trained Huberman for a couple sessions or something like that. So they have a relationship. your dream. I just want to hang out with him.

32:56Sal Di Stefano:That's why I don't think because he's going to teach you so much about fitness and health. You know, that's a good question.

33:01Adam Schafer:Is there anybody at this stage of our life? Hell no. There's nobody you would want to train.

33:07Sal Di Stefano:I wouldn't like to work out with somebody, much less I want someone telling me what to work out with. Fuck off. Are you kidding me? I don't even want to work out with you. Much less you tell me what I need to do. Stop it. Isn't that funny? That's the first thing people want to do. There's no pro athlete. there's nobody there's nobody okay okay unless there is okay unless you were like okay you you admitted your stuff that you're you're going through right now like uh i could see you hiring uh me or somebody not because i'm gonna teach you something but because for the you're gonna make me do what i want yeah right the psychological accountability you know my you know him best right it's like that kind of thing yeah yeah exactly why i won't yeah exactly and it's not because I'm going to teach you anything, right?

33:49Sal Di Stefano:Or even tell you, but I would tell you what you know you already need to do, I think. And so I think that would be the only reason why I would see...

33:57Adam Schafer:But you know what I mean? There's no celebrity bodybuilder, athlete that you'd be like, not really, huh? No. I can't think of it. And it's not because I know more than the person.

34:06Sal Di Stefano:I just don't care. I tell you what. I'm going to have a conversation. I think of a conversation like a Scott who we just had with. He's not going to teach me anything in the weight room. but having him like break down your health in your labs and stuff yeah yeah like in between sets he's like just educating you yeah educating me on like you know take this today because you're going to go fly and do this and then tomorrow I could geek out on that

34:30Adam Schafer:you guys want to know who my wife told me I should hire Corinne oh wow she's like you should hire Corinne I'm like what she's like yeah she's going through things well I mean indirectly that's hiring me and she would tell you and she knows that you'd be the worst person we're in a fight dude is what would happen no way Oh, bro, you would leave and be so frustrated with me. Yeah, I wouldn't. Yeah, you would. You'd get frustrated with me anyway. Let alone try to train me, dude. I don't know.

34:56Sal Di Stefano:That might be a little volatile. I don't know.

34:58Adam Schafer:Just as an outsider.

34:59Sal Di Stefano:I feel like Corinne would be too nice and sweet. Like, you need someone to tell you. Which is why I would do what she says.

35:06Adam Schafer:Because I would. Yeah, because I know I could dominate her. Sam will rebel, dude. When she leaves and go do something else. I'd be that client. No, I didn't do any extra exercise. Yeah. That's not what's happening. She's like, you sure look like you're pumped to me. Yeah, I know, dude. Hey, you guys, so they just dropped the, okay, so retitutride. Retitutride? Oh, is it out?

35:27Sal Di Stefano:Officially? No. Oh, okay. You guys know. Retitutride.

35:29Adam Schafer:This is a GLP-3. Yeah. Okay, so. The builds muscle. Well, so the first GLP drugs were called GLP-1s. Okay, so they act on one receptor. I'm not going to get into science mainly because I don't understand it. then there's the glp2s so you have semaglutide is glp1 terzepatide is a glp2 in the studies terzepatide causes more weight loss so and less muscle loss and less muscle loss so then these the companies are like well can we hit more receptors can we hit more so reddit trutide is a you can only get it as a research chemical right now i don't recommend you do that you don't know what you're getting but uh it's in the studies and then there's lots of bodybuilders and people we know of course who've used it but they've come out with the trials and you want to know what's crazy about these trials here is here and this is humans and not just rats this is human trials like a phase two trials in fact i think i saved some of the the an article on it dude it's uh it's actually a commercial for uh for reddit true so if it's in phase two sal what's realistic

36:35Sal Di Stefano:when you can get it through a real pharmacy, how far out?

36:39Adam Schafer:Well, they've got... What's the prediction of that? They've got... They still have to go through phase... No, it's actually phase three. Sorry. It was a phase three trial. So depending on how the FDA views these trials, if it passes, then it can become a drug. It could be something that we can...

36:55Sal Di Stefano:Now, Ozempic, Manjaro, are they all still on GLP-1? Or have they actually jumped on the GLP-2?

37:01Adam Schafer:So semaglutide and terzepatide are the chemical names. I don't know what the brand... I know Ozempic is semaglutide. I think Manjaro's terzepatide, if I'm not mistaken.

37:10Sal Di Stefano:No, look that up, because I don't know if they've jumped to terzepatide yet. No, terzepatide. No, some have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have they? Yeah, I don't know. No, no, no. I know you can get those. No, no, actually a big brand. Okay, that's what I'm wondering. Because last I knew, Ozempic was still messing with semaglutide.

37:26Adam Schafer:No, yeah, semaglutide is... That's the first one. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So Reddit Trutide, came out and they're doing research on it and again it's a GLP-3 and phase two trials are crazy. Phase three trials come out. Bro, say, strip off this, okay? A significant percentage of the people dropped out of the study. So these are participants. What do you mean dropped it? Why? They quit. And this is one of the things of a trial. Will people drop out because of side effects or because of, do you want to know why? Okay. So a significant percentage dropped out because you're ready for this yeah excessive weight loss they were losing too much weight that's like a commercial like that's gonna sell crazy yes because it caused such a crazy amount of weight loss now the bodybuilders and the people i know who take reddit trutide they're like comparing it to trisepatitis they're like it's it's godzilla in comparison it's so effective so i have a friend who did a bodybuilding competition went on retat trutide what does that say right there yeah so zap bound and monjaro or trisapatide that means those ever can still use in the original one yeah yeah yeah so and overdosing yeah so a lot of people so what i think they're gonna do is mess with the doses maybe lower the dose because it's so so powerful or whatever but i have a buddy who did a bodybuilding competition he did uh read a true tide and he's like dude he goes and now by the way you're talking about pro bodybuilding these guys are insane with how low the calories get the cardio it's just insane they're hitting stage shredded it's not healthy he's like dude he goes uh you know he's done this guy's done a lot of competition i'm not gonna say too much because everyone will know who it is but he's like bro he goes he goes zero appetite yeah he's like zero i mean i knew that i knew that which was

39:17Sal Di Stefano:appetite i mean there's a part of me that wants to show the audience because i did the first one for like really to show like for and get perspective for training normal ass people and so that was the goal i could absolutely normal i could absolutely take that uh with the strategy of how do i use this to get shredded and i i know i i would i would manage the dose a little bit different and and i would hit it right with that sweet spot where i still have an appetite and i can get what i need to but i just i remember how much it just completely eliminates the noise I had no cravings for junk food.

39:54Sal Di Stefano:And that is when you are dieting for a show and training that consistently in a deficit for that long, you have dreams about food. I mean, all the time I thought about food for weeks and weeks and weeks. And so to quiet that noise would be like it would make competing so much easier. Oh, God. That's the hardest part. That's what separates. The hardest part about competing is the diet. Of course. It's not the training part. No. Lifting weights and showing up to the gym. That's fun. A lot of people love that. It is – and if you know programming, that's the easy part. The hard part is can you – Just tough it out.

40:31Sal Di Stefano:That's what always deterred me from – And stay locked in, dialed to the calorie for months. And that is what separates the people that can get up there and do that. And if I was using something like that to quiet that – Oh, bro.

40:46Adam Schafer:Do you know what the average weight loss was for the people in the study? there's 445 people 28 % of their body weight

40:52Sal Di Stefano:so we have like tell me though I want to know the muscle I want to know the muscle I don't have that that's what I want I don't have the data on that but earlier data that I saw

41:00Adam Schafer:showed less muscle loss than the other I remember that's what they originally

41:05Sal Di Stefano:when we were at Dr. C's convention that's what what they were hyping yeah they were alluding to it

41:11Adam Schafer:let me put it this way a 300 pound person theoretically with this average weight loss through this trial would have lost 84 pounds

41:19Sal Di Stefano:And what period of time?

41:20Adam Schafer:Oh, God, I should see how long the study went. That's a good question.

41:23Sal Di Stefano:6, 12?

41:23Adam Schafer:No, no, no, no, no. It was a longer study. I got to look up and see how long that was. But, bro, that's wild. That is so wild. I got to look up. 72 weeks. So how long is 72 weeks? What is that? 52 weeks a year. Oh, wow, they did an over a year long study. So they were staying on it for a while.

41:42Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I really want to know what the muscle is then.

41:44Adam Schafer:So do I. Yeah, that's, to me, that's. Dude, how crazy is it that obese people in the study were like, I got to stop this. I lost too much already. Yeah. That sounds to me like a commercial.

41:54Sal Di Stefano:Well, that also alludes to me that they knew that they were losing a ton of muscle. That's why you would drop out. Yeah. You don't drop out because you're losing too much fat. You drop out because you recognize that you're getting worried about it. Yeah, you're getting worried that you're losing a lot of muscle. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. That's wild. I know so many normal people that are using it right now.

42:13Adam Schafer:That's the part that's crazy to me. Yeah. People who need to lose like 15 pounds. 10 pounds. Boom, put me on a GLP. There's no reason for that.

42:19Sal Di Stefano:I mean, if it's a massive hack for people.

42:21Adam Schafer:I know people who don't need to lose any weight who go on it because they just, I don't want to think about food. What? Wow. Okay.

42:30Sal Di Stefano:It does take, there is a part, and I guess, what is the balance of this here, right? Because there's the hedonistic value of food, right? Of course. There's something to decide. What happened to discipline? It ruined ice cream for me. I mean, I remember on it, like, let me try. it was like oh my god i don't even want this like that's terrible i love this like so it's it's it's an interesting was all sad it is come back to me but it'll come right back though it'll come right back yeah yeah you feed it a couple times and then your bug oh yeah i

42:59Adam Schafer:remembered this hey uh change the subject did you men's health did uh like this survey thing about uh skincare products do you guys want to know uh who got first place who got best for anti-aging caldera lab i should hope it's caldera caldera lab okay is that a new article in men's health magazine named the hydro layer the best for anti-aging i don't even use that so hydro layer is pure moisturizer so it's a moisturizer okay um and i mean it's so that's the one my wife uses so i have the hydro layer uh we have the serum um and she likes the hydro layer and she she's like dude i put it on it's like the best moisturizer i've ever used what

43:37Justin Andrews:does that say there doug yeah so it has uh exosomes it says over a trillion uh exosomes hyaluronic acid, polyglutamic acid, and peptide growth factors.

43:49Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I didn't know they have a subscription. I didn't know they have a subscription model where you can save 20%. Oh, wow. That's really good. I didn't know that. Yeah. So, but I mean,

43:58Adam Schafer:Caldera Lab went from like new company to dominating. Oh, yeah. It's such a crazy top brand in that space. That's right. Look at those. Clinical trials. They come out and they're just they crush. What I like Here's the thing that I like about Caldera Love.

44:14Sal Di Stefano:We haven't had their founder on the show, have we?

44:17Adam Schafer:No. That's true.

44:19Sal Di Stefano:It would be an interesting story.

44:22Adam Schafer:It would be an interesting story because they went after a market that kind of didn't exist. It was men's skin care. I mean, it's much like Viore, if you look at the parallel of that. That's true. Serving the male market. What else could we do? Let's think about this, guys. What's a market that women... There's a huge market for women, but not men. We're not doing makeup, you guys. Men's makeup? No. You know some companies have tried that? Really? Yes. Some companies in the past have tried a little bit. I think their peak was the end. Only if you bring back glam metal or something. If there was one of us that have tried it, Doug's tried it.

44:52Sal Di Stefano:Doug's tried it. One year for Halloween. Oh, they have it. One year for Halloween, we were dressing up.

44:57Adam Schafer:I dressed up as a vampire, and I put eyeliner on, you know? Oh, my eyes were off. And I looked in the mirror, and I was like, whoa, dude. I look like a magician.

45:06Sal Di Stefano:Like Chris Angel all of a sudden. Yeah, dude. Mysterious. I think I sent you a Chris Angel spoof video. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was like crazy. His name was Chris Ayn. I can't get an A, by the way, too. What? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's funny. It's a real thing.

45:20Adam Schafer:What?

45:20Sal Di Stefano:No. That's a real company. That's men's makeup?

45:23Adam Schafer:Yes, yes. Stop it. Shut your face right now. Yes, it's true. What are you going to put on his makeup as a guy? What are you going to put on your face? What do they got? Read me the product. There's no manly, dude. Well, they got like eyeliner. Yeah, brow.

45:34Sal Di Stefano:Blush. Brow darkener. Like enhancing your manly features. Shine eraser. Quick cover. Go to the top. Show the guy. Show the guy. Show the guy.

45:43Adam Schafer:Yeah, no. Well. What is he doing to his eyebrows? I could tell something.

45:47Sal Di Stefano:Look, he looks sad. He looks sad. I wonder how it does. See if it's a growing market. Oh, my God.

45:56Adam Schafer:I don't even want to say the name of the company because I don't want to give him. Dude. I mean, it's more than one brand.

46:01Sal Di Stefano:Well, yeah. So see if it's a growing market. Is that eyeshadow? How does this happen? Yeah. What is going on? You guys. It's like concealers, largely. so like covering it says makeup for men it is makeup for men well yeah I was thinking either that or like high heels I am justifying I'm thinking about trying this under eye concealer it popped up it popped up in his search really fast he didn't even finish typing he put M and then makeup for men popped right up welcome back I've been found out here he's at home after work

46:39Justin Andrews:I got like one of those little tissues

46:42Sal Di Stefano:and put my lips on it. Really compact. I knew he was cheating, bro. I knew he was cheating to look that young.

46:50Adam Schafer:How funny would it be if we all did makeup, like men's makeup, went home, didn't say anything? What would your wife say? We don't look like clowns. It's not uncommon though if you're on films and things like that on TV. Hey, I'll tell everybody right now. That is funny. Watching us on camera, there's zero makeup on our faces. I look this ugly for real. Everybody can tell. We realize that, you guys. They look adjusted. Do you live outside? I'm cracking as we speak. What's going on here? Oh, God. Anyway. Hey, do you guys, have you guys seen the studies? I'm sure you haven't. Where do you guys keep...

47:29Adam Schafer:Hey, you guys piss off, bro. That's a low blow, man. You sound like Gavin Newsom there. hey that clip i'm just like you guys i'm just like you guys i'm dumb it's going viral so many people are already making so many things he's such a snake actually i've been paying his pr person yeah yeah taxes all right so there's uh where do you guys keep your toothbrushes in the bathroom where's your toothbrush a little cup thing out in the open out there yeah how about you justin uh for what your toothbrush uh yeah i know where this is going i know where this is got in there. Fecal matter, dude, is on your toothbrush.

48:04Adam Schafer:I've heard this. If you flush your toilet, if you don't close your toilet, it's got to be how far away. I've got a pretty big bathroom and it's pretty far away. Bro, do you know how far the spray goes? Doug, look up how far does the, what do you call it, the spray from toilet flushing, how far does that reach? Yeah, mine's pretty far away, bro. You would be shocked.

48:21Sal Di Stefano:That's like saying if someone has their toothbrush in their bedroom, it's going to get that. Well, that's how, I mean, mine's far away.

48:27Adam Schafer:Dude, you have it on your phone anyways. What? Poop.

48:31Sal Di Stefano:poop face talk about your own phone that's why I always talk on speaker phone what? oh yeah one near your face it says it can go up to 5 feet oh see I'm good bro oh 5 feet alright yeah my sink's in Mr. Adam I got at least 30 foot bathroom my bathroom's not that big no it's not that big but it's definitely more than 8 now listen when I had my condo my bathroom was definitely like that so if you live in a condo you probably absolutely have a he's trying to be relatable right now I was poor

49:03Adam Schafer:I used to be poor whatever Gavin whatever Gavin just like you oh my bathroom there's no way the poop touches my toilet bro I gotta call my wife from one end to the other well you're silly bro you have to factor that

49:16Sal Di Stefano:to say something like that with a study there's gotta be some sort of a range that they're doing that with because average bathroom although my bathroom is not I have a small bathroom actually relative to my house and everything else it's not big at all it's not

49:29Adam Schafer:Put his bathroom up. Listen, my house is huge. My bathroom should be huge.

49:33Sal Di Stefano:It's not. No, Doug has the biggest house. It feels like a mile. Doug has the biggest house. Hey, stop trying to out him, dude. The guy with the least amount of people has the biggest house. Not yet.

49:41Adam Schafer:He hasn't got it. Have you gotten your new place yet? Yes. I have it. Are you there? Not there, no. You're not there. He's got two houses. All right.

49:47Sal Di Stefano:His square footage is like quadruple.

49:48Adam Schafer:Hey, so what are you going to do with the West Wing? What are you going to do with the West Wing? Are you going to stay on one side? I'm going to put a velvet rope there. Intercom. you throw parties dude i will i will you can move forward to that just to get your toothbrush i just i just pictured doug in his pajamas running down the hall

50:08Sal Di Stefano:are you is your is your toilet within five feet of your sink um let me think yeah oh it is yeah

50:14Adam Schafer:probably oh wow yeah probably i just i rinse it in the toilet because i don't mess around nice

50:19Sal Di Stefano:might as well well so now toilet bowl water is actually supposed to be really clean not toilet bowl water yes the stuff in the top

50:25Adam Schafer:you're talking about the tank the tank yeah not the what have you done in the bowl

50:28Sal Di Stefano:what do you mean why would the bowl be clean well what do you mean you're shitting it

50:33Adam Schafer:you have to ask hold on a second hold on a second please what do you do with the toilet water I don't do it just like the dogs you have a look on your face like you're just uh oh I'm not borrowing you too you need to decide a good place to scoop out and drink at night no no if there's ever an emergency the tank water the tank of the top yeah The tank, not the bowl. Not the bowl.

50:53Sal Di Stefano:I feel that looks way grosser.

50:55Adam Schafer:No, no.

50:56Sal Di Stefano:What? Have you ever lived in the back of that?

50:58Adam Schafer:Nobody poops on that, though, do you? Yeah, that's the thing. Unless you do upper-decker, which would be just messed up. That's the worst. Don't upper-deck anybody. Don't upper-deck anybody. Unless you really - You'll never fix that. No. It's forever away to the toilet. Yeah, no, it's not toilet bowl. The bowl water's not clean.

51:12Sal Di Stefano:So your place is that you're within five feet, huh? Yes, I'm sure. So you brought up a study that only affects you. No. Yes? Well, he was worried about it. Yes. Are you? Are you within five?

51:23Adam Schafer:No, it's probably like, maybe like eight, 10. It's like 99 % of the people listening.

51:29Sal Di Stefano:Now everybody's trying to downplay the writing. Trying to make me look like a total asshole. I've got this massive out. I do not have it. In fact, I do not have it. Do you have a TV in your bathroom? No. Okay. No, no, no. No, I don't have a TV in my bathroom. I wanted one.

51:43Adam Schafer:You have a TV in your closet? I do. God, you're such a girl. Whatever.

51:47Sal Di Stefano:You know how cool that is? Play sports where I'm hanging out with my clothes?

51:49Adam Schafer:His closet's pretty cool, dude.

51:51Sal Di Stefano:Have you been in it? No.

51:54Adam Schafer:Get into Adam's closet.

51:55Sal Di Stefano:Sal's been in the closet. It's a secret club, dude.

51:59Adam Schafer:With all his shoes. He showed me, yeah. Oh, he's cool. No, I'm cool, dude.

52:03Sal Di Stefano:Sal doesn't care about any of that stuff. I mean, this guy shits next to his toothbrush.

52:07Adam Schafer:He's content with that. But if you close the seat when you flush, that's what you need to do. That was the whole point of what I was trying to say, you guys, is close the seat, flush the toilet. So this is a PSA. Don't leave the seat up and flush it. I know you like to watch it go down, Justin, but put the seat down. You know what I mean? Like, woo. Yeah. That's the hat. Game of the place. That's the hat. All right. So I want to talk to you guys about, so one of our partners, Ro, I want to talk about liposomal technology, which has been around for a long time. And it's one of their selling points.

52:38Adam Schafer:And so I brought up some stuff on liposomal technology, which I think people need to know about. So liposomes are essentially the microscopic bubbles of essentially a type of a fat. Yes, a phospholipid that surrounds the compound, and it protects it and brings it to target tissues. By the way, they use this for drugs, so pharmaceuticals who use liposomal technology. But with supplements, I looked up the data. Do you know how much it increases bioavailability? Oh, a bunch.

53:10Sal Di Stefano:Five to ten times. Yeah.

53:12Adam Schafer:Five to ten times.

53:14Sal Di Stefano:You know, I never heard about that until like maybe a few years ago. And I feel like so many supplements are now moving in that direction.

53:19Adam Schafer:Well, I'll give you an example. Glutathione. If you take glutathione and it's not liposomal, you're wasting your time. Yeah, it's a total waste. In fact, the old way of taking glutathione only used to be injection. Because if you took it orally, you get no rise in glutathione in your system. It was just a complete waste of time. Liposomal glutathione definitely works because it's encapsulated. It transplants it. And so what Roe does with their products, they have creatine, NAD, they have glutathione, they have magnesium. All of them have this liposomal technology. So if you use those things in other ways and then you try Roe's, you're probably going to get better absorption.

53:57Sal Di Stefano:Well, we've been on the liposomal glutathione kick for a while. A long time. But I like Roe better because it's in the bottle and you can just squirt it in. Yeah. It's so much more convenient. Way more convenient. Yeah. And I've been consistent with that too. You just reminded me that. No, it's good. That I hadn't done today. That's good.

54:11Adam Schafer:All right, I got one more study for you guys. That we probably haven't read. It's making, yeah, you guys don't like this. There's no way. No, I'm just kidding. You guys might have seen this, actually. It was a study on homeschool versus, you know, kids going to traditional school and how well they do with their tests. Who does better, homeschool kids or public school kids? Homeschool, for sure. It's not even close. Way better, you guys.

54:34Sal Di Stefano:I'd like to see private school thrown out of age. Way better. Yeah, because I think public school struggles big time against both of those, both homeschool and private school.

54:45Adam Schafer:But homeschool kids just generally crush in comparison to other kids, even private school kids.

54:52Sal Di Stefano:Do you think it's more, is it against private school kids?

54:54Adam Schafer:Even private school kids.

54:55Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I'd like to see that.

54:56Adam Schafer:Now, private school kids tend to outperform public school kids.

54:59Sal Di Stefano:I would like to see, you know what I like to see?

55:00Adam Schafer:But homeschool kids typically do the best.

55:02Sal Di Stefano:I have a theory that the, like, okay, what do you think is the, I think, the biggest factor of that? I don't think it's curriculum. Whoever's teaching in that home. I don't think that.

55:13Adam Schafer:So I think it's two things. I know what you're going to say. Okay. Homeschool parents really pay, they really pay attention or involved. So, okay. So that plays the biggest role.

55:23Sal Di Stefano:Well, I think that plays in one. I think it's the ratio of kid to teacher. Of course. Yes, the attention. And homeschool is going to have one on four. You gauge the education. One-on-four or one-on-one, because you probably don't have, the average person probably isn't homeschooling more than four kids at home. Are they really factoring in the parent that doesn't want to do it,

55:42Adam Schafer:but is, you know, homeschooling? This is all homeschool kids. Okay. Yeah, so all of them. Here's the other thing, too. When you talk to, I had clients that were really big in this community. I've told this story before, but their kid was struggling in elementary school, like really struggling. And these were two really smart people. They were successful in tech. They were able to retire. so they say hey we're gonna homeschool this kid and at the time i remember thinking like that's not a good idea because i had that kind of uh you know just that mentality around it well anyway this kid did really well uh as a result because you tailor it to your kid yeah but anyway i got into that community yeah do you know how you know how long you know what the average amount of education per day let's say per school day how much time a homeschool kid spend on it versus it's like a fraction it's like an hour or two i mean i i was i was homeschooled for a year

56:28Sal Di Stefano:and when I was in 8th grade Was that because you got in trouble? Yeah, getting in fights. I remember I was getting bullied. I remember I told the story when I went to Colorado. Basically, it was in a full year because I was already going to school the first quarter and then the rest of the year I was homeschooled and so basically I just followed the school's curriculum and my mom would just give me the stuff that I needed to work on per day. I was done in like two hours. I would do the school work in two hours i had the whole rest of the day distraction yeah it's like yeah it was just it was it's crazy when you actually condense it down to what you need to do and just like hone in and focus on what what's getting done it's just goes to show you how much time yeah yeah that's what killed me about school in general yeah you're just bored it's just wasted yeah like time and effort and it's so inefficient you know and that just i don't know well they always frustrated me The old argument against the two of those used to be the socialization.

57:29Sal Di Stefano:I know. That used to be the big argument.

57:31Adam Schafer:Yeah, but that's if you just keep your kid inside alone and that's all you do. But they do activities outside of school. Put them in sports.

57:39Sal Di Stefano:It would be interesting to see how many, because I do know, I mean, I have family that homeschool kids. And the kids are amazing. Some of the best kids that I've ever been around. But I also know they were very proactive about those things. So it would be interesting to see if you took all the homeschool parents, how many of them do a good job of actually doing that? Because I think I could also see how easily you could isolate your kid. Of course. You know what I'm saying? Because it's just like you're home all day anyways. And it's like, you know. Maybe the real effort is to get them involved in a lot of other like extracurricular things.

58:12Sal Di Stefano:Have you guys seen the data?

58:13Adam Schafer:I don't know what the exact numbers are. Maybe Doug can find these. But the percentage of kids who are homeschooled versus traditional education that then have their parents' values as they get older. In other words, if you homeschool your kids, what percentage of those kids will have your similar values versus…

58:30Sal Di Stefano:80 %? It's crazy. 80, 90%. It's crazy.

58:33Adam Schafer:You put them in these systems, especially public schools.

58:36Sal Di Stefano:They get indoctrinated, yeah, because they're there all day. Oh, my God.

58:39Adam Schafer:What happened to my kid? My kid's like crazy, and it's because they adopted these other…

58:44Sal Di Stefano:I wonder, too, how much it matters, too, how much the parent is involved on a daily basis with the kids' schoolwork too, because I think that probably plays a huge role. Of course. That's one of the things I love about Max's school is that they force us to engage. We can't go by that I can't be involved as a parent in the schoolwork. And so that's part of the schoolwork is they integrate the parents in order for him to be able to complete it.

59:11Adam Schafer:Do you have percentages on that, Doug? I don't see any percentages. If you could change.

59:16Sal Di Stefano:why he's looking at that so yeah 49 in one study yeah no i thought it'd be higher than that well we're talking about the efficiency of it and everything and like how like little time you spend remind me of this quote i was like my new favorite quote is brevity is the soul of wit which is from like hamlet i guess but it was just like to me of course my personality it's kind of like you know i'm just very succinct yeah like what can i get done with the least amount of words but yeah that's I like I would love to experience education like that yeah no I we got such a cool uh compliment for us so right we're coming up on a parent teacher conference stuff um and Katrina and I are traveling during the time and so she would she stayed to talk to the teacher and let her know oh you know what can we do this and that um we can come we're leaving town for this this and that and the lady's like oh you don't you don't need to come in and Katrina's like well no the the parent conference thing and she's like yeah no you don't your your kid's fine she's like well i'll zoom call you it's not for it's not for your kid and she was like what what do you mean and she's just like he's such a good kid we we we really want parents to come in that

1:00:28Adam Schafer:we need to sit down and talk with tommy he's parents coming in yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

1:00:33Sal Di Stefano:so it was like a really she's like it was a really cool compliment to hear that yeah the teacher be like no no no he's he's doing just fine like that's all she's like i'll i'll zoom you will take five minutes and just keep you updated on everything. Good kid. He's a great kid.

1:00:46Adam Schafer:Dose has some pretty incredible products. They have a liver support product that's been shown in studies, real studies, to dramatically lower liver enzyme values. In other words, it's all natural, but it actually works. There's a lot of stuff out there that'll say it improves the health of your body or your liver, but they don't have anything backing it. Dose actually backed it with a study. If you want a healthier liver, better detoxification, you want better metabolism, you want to feel more energetic because you have a healthier liver, go to dosedaily.co forward slash mindpump. The discount code is mindpump.

1:01:23Adam Schafer:That'll give you 25 % off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Megan from Alberta. Hi, Megan. Hello.

1:01:31Justin Andrews:Hey, guys. How's it going?

1:01:33Adam Schafer:Good. How can we help you?

1:01:35Justin Andrews:Good. Okay. So I'm just going to jump into a little bit of my back story here because it's kind of long. So my question is going to be regarding the negative effects of an imbalance in the body. So four years ago, I was diagnosed with severe TMJ. Over those last four years, I have had three jaw surgeries, the most recent being a full joint replacement, and I still might need a fourth surgery. After my first surgery, my jaw pain started to get worse. And within that year, I started having a lot of anterior ankle pain. As my jaw progressively got even worse yet, so did my lower body pains. My feet and shins also started to become a chronic problem.

1:02:25Justin Andrews:It has become so bad now that most days I can only take my dog for maybe a 20-minute walk. And some days I can't even do that. um i've tried everything um possible so far so i've done physio osteopath chiropractor massage acupuncture i've done botox in my jaw twice i've done the juve red light for about a year supplements air compression boots ice heat rest stretching mobility and i got custom insoles from my podiatrist. So my podiatrist had recently sent me for an MRI on my ankles just before I had heard back from you guys. I did get the results back. I just haven't had a chance to meet with him yet to go through it all.

1:03:17Justin Andrews:But I kind of have the gist of it if you guys want that information. Yeah, please.

1:03:22Sal Di Stefano:Let's hear it.

1:03:24Justin Andrews:Okay. I'm going to probably screw up some of these words. So on both ankles, they're showing an elongated appearance of the perianus brevis and slight difference of the anterior talofibular ligaments. Left ankle has tiny dorsal osteophytes. Right ankle has some thickening in the ATFL, trace fluid in the tendon sheath, and remote talonavicular injury avulsion. avulsion so the atfl it was complete without ruptures but most likely from prior low grade sprains i did play basketball a lot in school but that was great almost 20 years ago now um I gave these MRI results to my new osteopath and she showed me kind of where all the areas connect from the jaw to the feet and the ankles and such and the nervous system.

1:04:29Justin Andrews:So we discussed the possibility that my severe jaw pain and inflammation could have affected these other areas and past minor injuries. she also noted signs of dysfunction in my periosteum system and may possibly have myofascial pain syndrome before i started this osteopath everyone kind of always told me just to rest relax don't overdo it um which i've been doing i haven't worked in like three years because all of this and my pain has just progressively gotten worse and worse even within the last couple weeks so i'm just not sure like how i could do any less um so i'm just wondering what your guys thoughts and opinions are on the idea that my jaw could be affecting my my feet and ankles uh as the last time i did see my podiatrist he laughed at me for even suggesting that that's a possibility so i just don't understand why all of a sudden this is coming back yeah or this is coming into my ankles and feet just like with a vengeance.

1:05:42Yeah.

1:05:43Adam Schafer:I'm really, really sorry. You're going through that. One of the most challenging things is, is to deal with chronic pain and then to not be able to find a solution or a root cause that can be super frustrating. And you said you've been dealing with this for years. So that's, that's really, really tough. Theoretically, pain and dysfunction in any part of the body can affect any other part of the body for sure uh and we could we could have physiological you know movement explanations but i think the easiest explanation is if you hurt a lot you're going to move differently okay so and it doesn't matter where you hurt if it's chronic and in pain uh you're going to move differently because you're constantly in pain.

1:06:30Adam Schafer:So that's possible. There's other few areas that I would look if I were you though. Because it sounds like potentially there's also something systemic going on. So I would look for things that could cause changes to how your body perceives pain systemically, things that may cause inflammation, for example, or things that may cause dysfunction in a systemic way. I would test for heavy metal toxicity, mold exposure. I would test for parasites, all three of which can cause pain to pop up in different parts of the body. And then what tends to be kind of signature with those things is you'll have pain in one area, then it pops up in another area, then it pops up in another area, and then before you know it, you're kind of hurting all over.

1:07:28Adam Schafer:okay so i would look at those things and you could get tested for mold heavy metal and uh and parasites just to rule them out uh because i have worked with people where they dealt with something similar to this uh and it was it was also accompanied by um foggy you know feeling foggy minded and uh and they did have mold toxicity and once they were able to uh or mold exposure once they were able to solve that everything kind of went away the other op the other thing is this, um, we can't separate, it's impossible to separate, separate the physiological from the psychological. And so, um, and it could look like this.

1:08:09Adam Schafer:It could look like you have, uh, chronic pain from actual dysfunction, but then it causes so much, uh, distress, uh, so much of an interference and interruption to your life, um, that, uh, it's, you start in this just, this is literally for lack of a better term, because whenever I say this, people's reaction or it's like, Oh, what you think it's all in my head? Well, pain is always all in your head, no matter what, even if I cut your arm off, the pain that you perceive is in your head. So it's not like you're making it up, but, um, the trauma that can come from chronic pain, especially if it's a major interference or interruption into your life.

1:08:52Adam Schafer:Like you can't work, your relationships suffer, and it's just there all the time. It can cause this scenario where you have pain all over your body. But I would first rule out any kind of measurable physiological condition or issue. Now, you're going to osteopaths, and they're going to image you. They're going to look at the joints. What it sounds like with your ankles is what you would expect if someone has ankle pain. It doesn't sound like there's this big red flag, but I would expect to see something if you had pain. But I wouldn't, if you were my friend, I wouldn't rush to surgery until we ruled out some of this other stuff.

1:09:42Adam Schafer:because if it's not, if the surgery doesn't solve it, what ends up happening is a sequence of surgeries and then a potential loss of mobility and all that stuff. So have you had, have you tested for any of the things that I said? Have you seen someone functional medicine that can do that?

1:10:03Justin Andrews:I have, yeah. I did the Cabral heavy metal test. It was a couple of years ago now, but I just had like minimal, like aluminum, which they said most people kind of tend to have. And I do see a naturopath here and they tested me for mycotoxins, which is a mold. And I do have high records of that. and we've been working on it for a good six to eight months or so now okay i just yeah i'm just trying to explore kind of every avenue because i know that the mycotoxin in the sheet that he gave me it did show like inflammation in the lower legs and stuff um which i thought made sense so i was that's kind of why I was going down that route but then just it kind of gets overwhelming the more people I talk to it kind of almost hinders it a little bit but so these osteopaths they're really great but like um they're the first ones that kind of put that little seed in my head that it could be from like more so from my ankle or sorry from my jaw yeah just with the timing of it all was kind of like oh maybe you know i just thought it was strange that it went straight to my feet and not to like upper body but whatever it's possible i mean it's definitely possible

1:11:37Adam Schafer:um and i've seen you know like i said somebody listening right now if your uh your face and your neck were in constant pain you would move differently yeah was that the only place that you had like an injury that you can remember from back when like your ankles um yeah i've never

1:11:56Justin Andrews:really had like any sort of major like injury per se i've only sprained my ankles and like my fingers um playing basketball um maybe a wrist but i don't think it's been so long but um Um, uh, I did hyperextend my one, my left knee, um, almost 10 years ago now. And it is still, that was kind of, I was going to try to work that into my question somehow, but, um, it is still a fairly weak knee. Like I just can't seem to get that back. Um, but there was no like actual injury per se I had all the scans and stuff I just kind of already have double jointed knees so I just kind of went back a little too far um and then I had a horseback riding accident but I didn't break anything I didn't um like fracture anything I just was bruised basically so nothing like too major but Megan with the with the with the mold test and stuff

1:13:04Adam Schafer:Have you had your home tested to see if you have any mold in the house?

1:13:09Justin Andrews:No, we had just bought a new, not new, but new to us home. So I haven't done that, but.

1:13:16Adam Schafer:How long ago?

1:13:20Justin Andrews:Not even a year ago yet.

1:13:22Adam Schafer:Okay. Just double check. You might want to test just to make sure because it does sound a little systemic with what's going on. and then don't so here's the thing with pain you have the we can measure what's happening with pain we can see the signals being sent and we can see you know inflammation but the perception of the pain is such a big part of it it's remarkable I mean it's remarkable you can talk to surgeons about when they do surgeries on children who don't know any better and versus adults which are you know oh man I'm supposed to be in a lot of pain. And there's a very different kind of response.

1:14:04Adam Schafer:My wife experienced this very, it was very acute. She had this shoulder injury. She used to travel at the circus and she used to do the silks and it kind of became a part of her identity. Before that, she never worked out and everything. And then suddenly she was like, oh my God, I could do something athletic and I'm fit and I love it. And then she hurt her shoulder. And when I started dating her, this was already years after she had left. She had this kind of chronic shoulder pain and we would constantly do correctional exercise. And we had gotten to the point where her mobility and strength seemed okay, but the shoulder pain was still there.

1:14:39Adam Schafer:And we had this discussion around this kind of trauma connected to the shoulder pain. And, um, we kind of worked on that and it just went away. And she was like, I didn't, I didn't even, and I'm like, well, you know, it changed your life. And I can't imagine how much of an impact what you've experienced has had on your life and that. So don't discredit that as well in terms of how that could potentially be influencing, you know, all of these things and even influencing the systemic effect with your immune system. But I would continue to look, Lyme disease would be another thing I would look for, mold.

1:15:18Adam Schafer:I would look for these things that can cause an immune kind of reaction. and then with exercise i would uh train in a way that was correctional movement's always good sauna is always good a good diet is always good uh but definitely one thing can affect another just just simply from the pain alone i don't need to connect the dots and show how this is you know the how it's all connected i think that's how doctors think but it's like you know if i punched you in the face you probably walked differently for a while until it healed which theoretically could affect your ankles knees and everything else have you been able to get any

1:15:56Sal Di Stefano:relief with light movement mobility with your ankles or is it just kind of aggravate it

1:16:04Justin Andrews:i feel like it just aggravates it and again that's the mental thing where i'm like nervous to um do too much or like you know like even with mobility and um stretching like sometimes a little inflame it and then i'm sitting on the couch like dying um or sometimes i'm okay but then it's the next day it hits me and i'm just like nervous to like i haven't been to the gym in like a year but that's mostly because of my jaw because it just yeah like you don't realize how much like things can pull on me and then um but like with the feet and ankles like they literally just started getting to like the point I'm at now which is I barely do anything um because they're so inflamed and they just like it just kills me even just to clean my house kind of thing so I have to break that up into different days and um so yeah I haven't done a whole lot of uh like working out or anything and I was hoping that maybe you guys could talk me into getting back.

1:17:12Adam Schafer:I think your best approach with exercise is to do a little bit every day when you feel okay. Use bands, correctional exercise. If you don't have Prime Pro, I'll send that to you. Those are the movements that I would do. And you would just practice them a little bit here and there when you feel okay. When you don't, you squeeze to get a pump. That's it. and just kind of move through different ranges of motion with those particular movements. But I would definitely look at things that can affect you systemically, Lyme, mold. I would look at anything with the gut. Then I would look at any potential autoimmune issue.

1:17:55Adam Schafer:They could test for autoimmune issues to see if there's anything else like that. But those are the areas I would look because it sounds like it's systemic. It doesn't sound like it's just one area with pain. And then it's just staying there.

1:18:08Sal Di Stefano:It sounds like it's kind of found a weak link that it could gravitate towards. Yeah.

1:18:13Justin Andrews:Right. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. I don't, I will definitely try to do the prime pro. I appreciate you guys sending it. I don't really have many good days, but I'll, I'll definitely do a little bit here and there and just see how, see how it goes. Cause like nothing, nothing um and that's one thing like i was with the red light i was i had really high hopes and and um with it to just show something um but i'm wondering if it is so like systemic like you say that's just not have you tried to get to it you've been tested for lying tried any peptides or anything yet um i actually just started peptides four days ago it's really hard to get them here in canada they're kind of stingy about them so i finally found a hopefully reputable place to get them from my girlfriend's been through these guys for about a year so she hasn't died yet so okay so yeah i started um bpc 157 um i was listening to you guys and then it has a mix of tp 500 in it okay so it's only been yeah today will be day five yeah um you want

1:19:40Adam Schafer:to give that about a month or two and then like and you tested for lime i had asked that earlier

1:19:47Justin Andrews:uh yeah many many moons ago um it did come back positive um but it was yeah it was about uh 10 years ago or so and i've we've done so many things to work through it and nothing has ever budged with it yeah so that's why we're my naturopathic has me on the mycotoxin route because he thinks that that could be blocking any sort of treatment okay but yeah so i do have that um as a natural path standpoint if if i test here in canada through like a actual medical doctor i show as a negative yeah that's hard to yeah yeah you got some the

1:20:38Adam Schafer:testing is sometimes not sensitive enough um well yeah i wish i could give you i know a better answer but my gut feeling is to look for something that's affecting you systemically and not locally, you know, not like it's the joint, but rather why is my body so inflamed and why am I developing areas of inflammation is where I would look.

1:21:03Justin Andrews:Okay, right. And like when you mentioned diet, I know that lots of the foods that I'm eating are like an inflammatory per se because like I'm so limited on what I can eat, right? Like some days I can eat ground beef like in a spaghetti sauce, say, or something. And then some days I can barely have chewing that. So lots of times I just try to, you know, choke it down. But, yeah, so I am eating a lot of carbs and pastas, stuff like that, soup. I get the occasional shaking, but I got so sick of shakes from surgery that I kind of fell off of them.

1:21:54Adam Schafer:It's probably not a bad thing to avoid common food intolerances. So gluten, dairy, legumes, nightshades. and so you'd stay kind of like fruits, vegetables, aside from nightshades, I'd stay away from nightshades and meats and see only because of the state that you're in. Any common intolerance may make things worse, but that can't hurt. It can't hurt to go in that direction, kind of like a paleo style diet. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

1:22:28Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:22:29Adam Schafer:I'll try that. All right. Well, Megan, if you get any more information, we'd love to hear about it from you.

1:22:34Sal Di Stefano:Hopefully, people watching this, too, they might know somebody or maybe there's a medical professional watching this that has ideas, too. So, hopefully, it gets out and gets you some answers.

1:22:48Justin Andrews:Oh, thanks. I appreciate that.

1:22:49Adam Schafer:You got it, Megan. All right. Thanks for calling.

1:22:52Justin Andrews:Awesome. Thank you so much.

1:22:53Adam Schafer:You got it. That's tough.

1:22:55Sal Di Stefano:I didn't want to put her in a position on the call. what i've had clients this is rare when you get somebody like this that's had that's like checking all the boxes um and they just can't get to the bottom of what it is i've had experience uh many not many a handful of times where uh some of this stuff is related to like childhood trauma sure and uh if you have just powered through your life and never really done a lot of work on that it tends to start to express itself and all these weird things and injuries and symptoms and stuff and autoimmune issues and things that you can't quite get to the bottom of and so um i didn't want to put her on the spot on on this you know what's tough about that adam

1:23:42Adam Schafer:that's by the way that's a component by the way that's not woo there's there's there's data to support this yeah you can activate your immune system by uh by hating on hating yourself exactly Your immune system starts to identify your body as a threat. And we know this. The data can actually show this. And there's a very strong connection between autoimmune disease and depression and anxiety. And not just that they cause depression and anxiety, but depression and anxiety seem to cause higher rates of autoimmune issue. The problem is when you communicate that, the person feels like dismissed or like, what are you talking about?

1:24:16Adam Schafer:That's why I didn't want to say it.

1:24:17Sal Di Stefano:And this is what makes what we do a little difficult because we have this, you know, if 10 minutes at best, we get to know these people in that short amount of time. And this would be something that as her and I are training, I would slowly pull on that thread to find out more about childhood, personal life, things are going.

1:24:33Adam Schafer:So I'll tell a story. I'll tell a specific story. I had a guy that I trained who his wife came to me first. Then he started training with me and his body was so sensitive to pain that like my first couple sessions, I was shocked. Like he'd do a row and I'd put my hands on him to kind of move his shoulders and he'd like flinch. And I remember thinking like, this is really odd.

1:24:57Sal Di Stefano:Weird reaction.

1:24:58Adam Schafer:And after like two or three sessions, it was like, and so we'd ask the questions, no illness, no this, no that. But like everything hurt and we had to be very careful. uh so all i did and i this is back in the day when i you know i didn't have a lot of awareness around this i had remember i had that really great physical therapist that worked in there so i would do correctional exercise and stuff with him yeah but over time what happened was uh we became friends he became friends with the other people in the studio and this is now looking back he didn't have a lot of friendships he was very lonely it was just like him and his wife and that's it he did nothing else but work and he started kind of coming out of his shell and his personality changed he got happier and through that process became way less sensitive now he never got to the point where he's like get after it but the difference was dramatic and i remember i would talk with my co-workers about this because i worked with this guy for a few years and they're like you know i wonder if it was just uh he just had no he was lonely he didn't have any friendships he had a really tough childhood we never went into detail but he would express that like i wonder if it was just kind of him opening up he was so protective of his body and protective They opened up and the pain, significant difference in how we reacted.

1:26:09Adam Schafer:And that stuck with me. That was one of my first experiences with like, you know, what we're talking about.

1:26:14Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. And I think too, like you brought up even belly breathing with, I've had the same experience with a client who was really holding on, like really holding on and the release of it was like a crazy emotional experience. Yeah, I've had that. is so you know in terms of like i don't know maybe getting in there and like being able to meditate and you know dive in further you know that that's worth investigating but i've had you know like i said a handful of people that like where i just couldn't get to the bottom of it right yeah i couldn't find the professional i couldn't figure out the thing and and then something miraculously happened where they had a breakthrough with therapy or they got married and all of a sudden found love or like gone yeah and then all of a sudden the pain is gone and it's like i didn't do anything different in their workouts or their diet.

1:27:01Sal Di Stefano:It was just, there was something. Circumstantial. There was something going on inside internally that they were either suppressing or holding on to. And many times this is connected to childhood trauma stuff, things like that. And again, I didn't want her to feel dismissed by that.

1:27:18Adam Schafer:By the way, the trauma could even simply be this. Maybe there isn't anything in childhood, or there could be, but it could also be this. I have severe jaw pain. It gets really bad. I have to get surgery I can't work it's hard for me to talk it's hard for me to eat I have to get another surgery now I'm not working for two years I have to get another anybody goes through that that is traumatic that is severely traumatic it changes everything our next caller is Nicole from Arizona hi Nicole

1:27:47Justin Andrews:hi guys thank you so so much I seriously appreciate you giving me some time

1:27:53Adam Schafer:yeah you got it how can we help you

1:27:55Justin Andrews:Okay, I'll just read the email. So, hello, my name is Nicole. I'm 25 years old and grew up playing soccer and overall being very active. Since going to college and not playing soccer, I learned how to go to the gym and got into running mainly. I have always been very into fitness and healthy nutrition, but starting a few years ago, I took it too far and developed anorexia. Since getting back some weight, I've gotten to a point of the fittest I've ever been, yet almost the least fit because I overtrain and can't seem to find how much I need to fuel my body. I run five times a week and have gotten a DEXA scan and I have 15 % body fat and I'm trying to get stronger.

1:28:40Justin Andrews:I usually get about 30 ,000 steps every day, which I know is too much, but I just feel like I have to move. And if I don't, then I have to eat way less. I get answers from most of the total daily energy expenditure results that I should be able to just maintain at 2200 calories. But sometimes I feel like I could just eat like 4000 calories every day and I'm hungry. But here I shouldn't eat too much and especially not carbs. So anyways, I think I'm doing too much, but would like to know how to make changes to work smarter, not harder, harder and do the transition to doing less without losing progress with my endurance and low body fat.

1:29:24Justin Andrews:Thank you guys so, so much again. I really love the podcast.

1:29:27Adam Schafer:Yeah. Thanks for calling in, hon. You're this is such it's so great to see someone your age ask a question like this. And there's some good self-awareness here, which gives me a lot of hope for what we want to do with you. Okay. I got to ask you, do you have a regular period or has that been disrupted through the process that you went through, through anorexia and the exercise and stuff? Is that all normal?

1:29:51Justin Andrews:That is actually still disrupted. I probably haven't. I mean, I didn't have it for probably two years. And then after I kind of recovered for a little bit, I got it back a little bit. but then it's been another two years probably since I've had it.

1:30:06Adam Schafer:Okay. So I'll give you the plane, like what's happening, but then let's talk about how we could get there. Okay. You're definitely over-trained. You're definitely under eating still for sure. Cool. Now we know the hard part is how do we get to a place where this doesn't feel so stressful? There's a couple of things you said besides your past, which is obviously giving me a clear picture, but you said, I have to do 30 ,000 steps or I feel like I have to eat less. Who's forcing you? What do you mean?

1:30:39Justin Andrews:I don't even know. I swear for some reason, I've, I've always been a rule follower, but I just like set these things or, you know, the health world says to do, you know, X or Y, you know, and I take it to the extreme. And it's like, if I don't do, you know, my exercise, even if I'm exhausted, then like the world is over or whatever it may be.

1:31:06Adam Schafer:I get it. I get it. But answer the question, who is forcing you to do these things?

1:31:13Justin Andrews:I mean, it's myself, you know, nobody else.

1:31:16Adam Schafer:That's it. And what it probably feels like to you when you're creating the structure in these rules is that it feels like I got my hands around it and I'm controlling things, which can feel calming when things feel out of control. Or it feels like if I don't have my hands on these things, oh my God, what's going to happen? So there's a couple ways we could go about this. Because I could give you the answers right now, but I don't think it's going to help you. I think you either A, need a coach to work with you through this process because it's going to be a bit tough. If that's not feasible for you, Nicole, if that's something that's not available just financially for you, I think what I would do with someone like you, somebody who needs a target, is I would point you in a direction that's going to move you the furthest away from this challenge.

1:32:09It's not the perfect target, but it's going to move you away from it.

1:32:13Adam Schafer:and there's a competitive element, which it sounds like you like. It sounds like you kind of like something to aim for and something that's competitive. And what I would do, so here's your two options. Option one, the best, is work with a coach. We have coaches here at Mind Pump that we handpick, so I trust them. Option two is to pursue powerlifting. Powerlifting is going to be your best bet as far as a competition and target because it's going to, if you're really seeking to get stronger and compete, it's going to move you away from all this other stuff that's a bit damaging. Okay.

1:32:49Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:32:50Adam Schafer:Sorry. Keep going. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead.

1:32:53Justin Andrews:I was just going to say, like, I've started to try to, like, strength train, you know, in the gym, but it is, like, I feel like I just get, like, lost. Or if I were to, like, imagine just doing strength training, which it's not even just, like, strength training obviously is very difficult. but I'm like, oh, if I don't run and have this huge sweat, then I didn't get a good workout in, and now I have to eat way less because I didn't burn as many calories or whatever.

1:33:24Sal Di Stefano:It's so not true, though, just so you know. And that feeling that you have where you feel like you could eat 4 ,000 calories, that's your body's natural signal saying, I need those calories. That's not a bad thing. That's like you go out and you do 30 ,000 steps in a day, which is crazy. a crazy amount of steps that's a ridiculous amount that type of that a person doing 30 000 steps a day and running should be eating 4 000 plus calories a day yeah and if you're not anywhere near that the reason why you feel like you're starving is because your body is and which is also why the period is shut down is that our body fat percentage is too low we're pushing way too hard we're way on the other extreme we have to come and this is why sal is saying the coach is so important is because this isn't like one or two little just tweaks this is a process because we have to get on the whole other side in fact what it looks like is increasing calories cutting those steps down up down to under 10 000 steps and just lifting weights like that is so the opposite of where you're at and the coach is going to guide you through that and it's real easy for us to sit on our you know podcast chairs and tell you that it's another thing to implement that and do that and the voices in your head that are telling you all these things.

1:34:39Sal Di Stefano:And then heaven forbid you see the scale go up a few pounds and then freak out and think you're going the wrong way when actually you're building muscle and going the right way. That's where the coach comes in is the coach is the one who kind of talks you off that ledge every day and goes, Nicole, you're doing great. This is perfect. This is right where I want you. Like, oh, we're doing like that's the real value. It's less of the X's and O's. And it's just that where you're at and where we need to go is a pretty far trek and getting there is not hard from a physical standpoint it's hard from a psychological standpoint

1:35:11Adam Schafer:let me just communicate something to you that you may be aware of but you might not be aware of this control that you're putting around all these things it's actually the reverse it is controlling you so you are actually out of control you are being tyrannized by exercise, diet, stress, body image, all these things are controlling you. You're not controlling as much as you're trying to control it. It's actually controlling you, which probably gives you the sense that you need to control it even more. And so this is kind of like spiral. It's a spiral down. Yeah. Yeah. So the answer is to, is to do the scary thing, which is to give the control up completely.

1:35:56Adam Schafer:But the easiest way to do that is to give it to someone else. Now, and I'm going to, I'm going to paint a couple pictures for you. Here's one, one path is if you keep going down, you're 25, you're young, but you're already, your period is irregular. You're feeling like, oh my God, this doesn't feel good. What did the bone density say on your DEXA scan? Did you see it? Yeah. Was your bone density okay?

1:36:20Justin Andrews:My bone density was actually okay. My dad also got a Dex and they told him he was built like a tank. So I think I just have good genetics when it comes to bones. Good.

1:36:29Adam Schafer:So, so what'll happen if you keep moving down this path is it's going to get more stressful, more difficult, more challenging, more negative symptoms. And it's going to feel terrible. So right now youth is helping protect you a little bit. But if you keep going down this path, it'd be really, really nasty. Now, the other path that we could do right now is you relinquish control to someone you trust. How long have you been listening to our show, by the way?

1:36:55Justin Andrews:It's been a couple of years now.

1:36:58Adam Schafer:Okay. So you like us, you trust us a little bit. You think we know what we're talking about? Okay.

1:37:03Justin Andrews:Yes, definitely.

1:37:04Adam Schafer:We have handpicked coaches because there's great coaches out there. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad ones. The ones that we have are really good. So when you hear us communicate our philosophy around health and fitness and the methods, that's what our coaches do. And they're going to walk you through this entire process. And what you're going to do is instead of giving up control completely, which is really scary, you're going to give it to someone else. And you're going to say, okay, I'm just going to follow what you're saying, even though it's scary, even though it's uncomfortable. I'm just going to follow what you're saying.

1:37:39Adam Schafer:And then you're going to give them that control. and then the process that that looks like is it's like wearing it's like training wheels is eventually you start to trust the process and you don't need to give that control to someone else then you're not with a coach and it's totally different it's a totally different relationship you don't feel trapped you don't feel controlled you feel vibrant and now this health and fitness is now a vehicle for freedom and not a vehicle for tyranny which is what you're experience.

1:38:08Sal Di Stefano:Nicole, you brought up, uh, your dad did the DEXA scan. He did it with you. Is, uh, do you live at home still? Are you, is he, is he aware of where you're at?

1:38:17Justin Andrews:Yeah, I live at home or I finished college and then have been at home right now, just kind of working a little bit.

1:38:22Sal Di Stefano:And is he, does he know everything like as far as the anorexia and what you've gone through?

1:38:28Justin Andrews:Yeah. He and my mom, I've never really like worked with too many other people my mom was kind of my main um little superstar helping me through everything so

1:38:38Adam Schafer:that's wonderful okay is do you think a coach is is that something that's feasible for you

1:38:43Justin Andrews:would that be something you'd be interested in i do think so because i just that's my biggest thing is my family is not super fit and healthy it's and you know i kind of grew up in a household where it's like, oh, you know, we could sit on the couch all day, eat whatever, it doesn't matter. You know what? It's totally fine for some people. My family is the best. But I just, so I feel like I've always lacked trust in the people around me. I'm like, I have to do the opposite of what they're doing, you know? And so like, it's just hard for me with like anybody to be like, okay, how can I trust that they know exactly what my body needs, even though I'm not even really listening to my body by pushing it to the limit.

1:39:30Justin Andrews:But it's like, it's just that trust kind of thing. Yeah.

1:39:35Adam Schafer:Okay.

1:39:36Sal Di Stefano:Uh, well, take care of you.

1:39:37Adam Schafer:If you trust us and we handpick these people, I'll have somebody call you today and, uh, this is your best bet. And because of your awareness and your age, I have really high hope. I think you're going to do just great. I think you're going to do just great.

1:39:55Justin Andrews:Okay. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it.

1:39:59Sal Di Stefano:You got it. We'll see you on later calls, Nicole.

1:40:02Justin Andrews:Okay, see you. Bye, guys. Thank you.

1:40:04Adam Schafer:Oh, sweet girl. That's tough. So again, when I talk to people, when they have that kind of awareness, the odds are high. It's still hard. She's going to have to do some hard work. But the odds are high, Especially at her age, at 25, to be like, hey, man, I got these issues, and I need some help with this.

1:40:23Sal Di Stefano:Oh, yeah, most people are in denial right now. Most people are still in denial about it.

1:40:27Adam Schafer:And they just keep going until their body shuts the heck down.

1:40:30Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, and then they get all kinds of really bad. Well, I mean, she's already having hormonal stuff, right? Obviously, her period's been shut down like that. Oh, yeah. But early enough, young enough, and it's great that she's got her bone density was okay, too, because that's the next thing that you start to see to deteriorate. That's right. And so, you know, catch it now, and we'll be okay. You know, the hardest part to me is that the answer is actually really easy like it's like doing it yeah it's like it's like because you're actually telling somebody who's doing way too much to to do less back off eat some more you know i'm saying like and and that seems you the average person listening is just like it's because

1:41:05Adam Schafer:you can't get in their own way you can't know it just in your head she knows it in her head she doesn't feel it yeah what she feels is the opposite and that drives the what your actions are. You can try going from your head all day long. What it would look like for Nicole is she would be like, okay, cool. I'm going to do the steps. And then she'd feel so strongly against it that she would just stop. But the coach is there to give that to them and you follow them. And there's going to be some stumbles. She's for sure going to not do what the coach says for a little bit and go back and maybe struggle and argue.

1:41:37Adam Schafer:But eventually it'll get to the point where she knows it, where she actually knows it on the inside, not just in her head. Our next caller is Alyssa from California. Hi, Alyssa. Hello.

1:41:46Justin Andrews:Hey. Oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm talking to you guys in person. This is so weird. I listen to you every single day. My kids even know who you are. When I told them I was coming on, they were like, oh my gosh, it's the Mic Pub guys.

1:41:58Sal Di Stefano:Thank you so much for calling in. How long have you been in Oakdale for?

1:42:02Justin Andrews:I've been here for about three years. I'm originally from Oklahoma, but I moved out of the Bay Area like 22 years ago. So I was like in Pleasanton, Dublin. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Bay Area.

1:42:16Sal Di Stefano:very familiar with all that we're in the bay areas and we know all that and i grew up in oakdale oh did you yes yes oh that's awesome yeah where are you at where what part of town are you at

1:42:26Justin Andrews:um i'm kind of over on the east side and i don't know if you know where the like save mart is in the old k mart yeah i'm kind of over in that area so yeah my sister lived back over there for a while

1:42:37Sal Di Stefano:right over where the uh with the junior high is back over there right yes yeah the junior high

1:42:41Justin Andrews:is actually in my backyard so okay i can hear the the band practicing every morning so that's fun well how can we help you well i just thank you so much first of all because you guys have literally like changed the game for me like in the sea of like strength training and nutrition health information like you guys keep it real and i trust you more than pretty much anybody on the internet because it's just it gets so confusing and overwhelming but um i'll just start off my story is kind of complicated and long so i'll just kind of shorten it for you um i'm 40 almost 46 i um have dealt with anorexia nervosa pretty much my whole life like since i was 10 so i've it's been a battle i've you know carried forever but um been in treatment multiple times in and out um never really helped me they put me in you know feed me 4 000 calories plus gain a bunch of weight come home feel gross lose it again over and over um what really helped me the most i think was when i was 13 my dad introduced me to strength training he was always into bodybuilding weightlifting all of that he took me to the gym and changed the game for me i instantly fell in love like it was back in the 90s so girls weren't really like in the gym doing like, you know, bodybuilding moves.

1:44:04Justin Andrews:And I was in there like, you know, back squatting and, you know, all that stuff. And I just, it changed how I, my relationship with food and my body, because for the first time, food wasn't scary. It was something I needed to like get strong and build my body up. And I wanted to get stronger and it was amazing. Fast forward, I became a personal trainer in college, loved it. It just was something that, you know, it kind of cured me from that anorexia for a while. Got married, had a kid, had twins, had another kid. And it just kind of, I have, I'm a mom of four kids. So, you know, going to the gym is not that easy when you're mom with four little kids.

1:44:53So I stopped going to the gym, kind of in a bad marriage, just

1:45:00Justin Andrews:fell back in the old ways, the anorexia, and just kind of battled up and down for years. So fast forward, here I am now. And single mom, got four kids, they're all teenagers. And I just, I'm I'm kind of on my way back to recovering again. I'm not at a healthy weight. I know I need to gain weight, but I've lost a lot of muscle in all my years of restricting. And I'm sarcopenic, like extreme. Like I have zero muscle mass right now. And I want to get back into strength training because I know how important muscle is, especially getting older. I don't want to be in my old age, fall, break a hip, ended up in the hospital.

1:45:46Justin Andrews:And, you know, I mean, I listened to like Gabrielle Lyon. I listened to you guys, you know, and like the, you know, muscles important. And for me, it's never like, I don't have body dysmorphia. Like I don't like, I know I'm way too skinny and I, I just, I want to feel strong again. Like my kids have never seen me strong and I miss that feeling. Like I can't even go to Costco by myself and get stuff because I can't lift anything. You know, I have to get my teenagers to lift Amazon boxes off the porch and I want to be strong again, but I don't know where to start because I haven't lifted, like I said, since my 18 year old, you know, before she was born.

1:46:28Justin Andrews:So, and I just feel so weak. Like I, I can barely do anything. Like I really have no muscle mass. Like, so I just, I wanted to get you guys input on where to start. Like, I feel so intimidated. I have gym access. I have a gym right down the street, but I'm intimidated to go, you know, like with my personal training history and everything, I kind of know what to do. I just, where I'm at now physically, I don't know, I don't know where to go. I'm lost. so that's why I that's why I wanted to you know I trust you guys and I just kind of wanted to see where you would you know where you would put me yeah god bless you I think we could help you

1:47:11Adam Schafer:with this did the um if we can if it's okay I'd like to ask you a few more questions of course yeah it did it did the did this start with body image issues or was it a control thing when you started the relationship with anorexia? You know, I think it was kind of a little bit of both.

1:47:33Justin Andrews:It started with body image and then it turned into a control thing. I never had any, like, you know, I was a typical kid. I was like, I didn't think anything. I didn't even think about my body, you know. I just kind of ate and did my thing and had a friend, like, poke my belly when I was, I still remember it. Like she poked my belly and said, oh, you've got a pot belly. And it was the first time I was like, oh, should I be thinking about my body? And then that kind of cascaded into, you know, a diet and restricting. And then it just went from there. And then from there, it kind of became a control thing.

1:48:10Justin Andrews:Like in times of stress, that's kind of when the anorexia rears its head. It's like, this is my way to kind of control something in my life because everything else is out of control.

1:48:19Adam Schafer:and so you know so yeah it's uh it's that it's that it's that comforting friend uh it is yeah

1:48:28Justin Andrews:it's no dysfunctional friend exactly it's no different than somebody going to alcohol for

1:48:33Sal Di Stefano:that you know that kind of that relief or great awareness around all and yeah and it sounds like

1:48:38Justin Andrews:you're ready to care for yourself absolutely yeah okay that's exciting so here i'll give you

1:48:44Adam Schafer:some advice so i totally hear you with the intimidation with the gym and so i think a step by step approach is the best. I think was a good routine that you could do at home to start with would be great to build some strength and confidence before going back to the gym. Do you have anything at home like dumbbells, uh, suspension trainer, resistance bands, anything like that?

1:49:06Justin Andrews:Yeah, I've got, I've got a set of 15 pound dumbbells and I've got a 45 pound kettlebell. Great.

1:49:14Adam Schafer:Okay. Okay. Great. I think map starter would be a good program to start with.

1:49:18Justin Andrews:Okay.

1:49:19Adam Schafer:Okay. I also think map suspension would be another, a good program. And what I'm going to do, we don't normally do this, Alyssa, you don't have a suspension trainer.

1:49:26Justin Andrews:I don't know.

1:49:28Adam Schafer:We're going to send you a suspension trainer and I'm also going to send you map suspension.

1:49:31Justin Andrews:Thank you so much. Oh my gosh.

1:49:34Adam Schafer:You'll have two options. You'll have map starter and map suspension. Uh, and they're both great at home programs. I think doing a little bit daily is a good idea in combination with some of the changes in diet. Have you made any dietary changes?

1:49:52Justin Andrews:Not really. I'm kind of, um, I'm kind of stuck right now. I, I'm like a very low calorie. I'm about 1500 calories, but I'm slowly gaining on that. I think I've suppressed my metabolism so much and because i don't have any muscle like i just you know i barely have any i just feel like i can't eat without you know really gaining weight and i know i need to eat to build yeah

1:50:23Adam Schafer:to build any muscle so you know all the stuff up here uh yeah but we got to get you to feel feel it because if you do the right things but you don't feel right about it it's gonna be very difficult to stick to. So, and how do we get to, how do we get there? You're going to have to not weigh yourself. So I'm going to need you to get rid of your scale. I mean, that, I mean, literally get rid of it, not have a scale in your house. So throw it away and not study yourself in the mirror. In fact, ignore your reflection in the mirror because it's going to mess with you. And you're going to have to consciously think about how you feel and think about your strength.

1:51:02Adam Schafer:What I mean by how you feel is not like I feel gross, but try to pick out the strength, the energy, and the mobility. And you're going to have to consciously think about those things because your nature is to not. Your nature is going to be to think about how I look, the scale, and am I feeling fatter? Do I feel bloated? Do my stomach is full? Okay. So this is going to be, you have to retrain your focus. What you focus on is what you see. And there's lots and lots of data to support this. So several times a day, I want you, you're going to have to think about strength, think about energy, think about how much weight I'm moving, mobility, and just focus on that.

1:51:45And when you find yourself thinking about the other stuff, instead of not thinking about that, good luck.

1:51:50Adam Schafer:It's like, don't think about a zebra. Now you're thinking about a zebra. You're going to have to think about strength, think about mobility, think about energy. and then that slowly should get you to this point where you start to feel confident and go back to the gym diet wise you're going to have to completely ignore your systems your feeling of satiety and fullness so because uh your relationship to that right now if i tell you to listen your body from that standpoint you're going to keep eating little so you're going to kind of have to eat in an uncomfortable way so you're gonna have to kind of seek that out a little bit like i'm going to eat until I'm really full.

1:52:25Adam Schafer:And then I'm going to eat until I'm really full. Uh, now working with a coach would be very beneficial from, for someone like you to kind of help you through this process. You can kind of, uh, outsource some of that trust. I don't know how feasible that is for you. I know you're about an hour and a half away, uh, from us. Uh, I'd like to invite you into our studio just to meet with us. Uh, you can listen to a live episode. I can introduce you to some of our trainers. And even if you were to visit us every other month and meet a trainer here, I think that would be beneficial. Or you could do something more consistent where you work with one of our coaches virtually and they can kind of help through this process.

1:53:05Adam Schafer:I think that would really, really be helpful.

1:53:07Justin Andrews:Yeah, that would be awesome.

1:53:08Adam Schafer:But I'm going to send you those two programs. I'm going to mail you a suspension trainer. And then if you'd like, I can have one of our coaches call you and then see if any of that works for you to be able to kind of walk you through this process.

1:53:22Justin Andrews:That would be so great. Thank you so much. Cause I just feel, I just feel kind of lost right now, you know, and, but that would be, that would be a game changer. So I just, oh my gosh, thank you so much.

1:53:33Sal Di Stefano:You're actually in a great place mentally. You're in the right place. You've, you've self-awareness is incredible. You know where you need to go. Uh, you're sounds like you're willing to outsource that to somebody else, guide you through that process we'll take care of you yeah we'll take care of you thank you so much i just you're gonna

1:53:49Justin Andrews:do great i do i just want to be i just want to feel healthy you know like it's not about like body image anymore it's about like just being strong and healthy for my future and for my kids and to be a good example you know i've got two daughters and you know i want to show them what it's like to be a strong woman and you know i don't want to be this weak little thing anymore

1:54:10Sal Di Stefano:you know that's badass that's badass and that's an awesome one yeah listen if i had one of your

1:54:14Adam Schafer:daughters on here and i asked them how much do you love your mom what would they say oh man i think they love me a lot yeah i want you to look through their eyes at yourself and try to care for yourself like they would and it's going to be counter to what you used to but i think that'll help direct you uh in the meantime that's why i love you how do my daughters think of me i I love that being your goal.

1:54:37Sal Di Stefano:I love that it's selfless. It's you. I want to show my daughters. That is what's going to motivate. That's what's going to put you through the uncomfortable times of when a trainer tells you, I need you to eat 2 ,000 calories. And you're like, oh my God, that feels so much stuff. I don't like it. And if you just keep remembering why you're doing this, you're going to be fine. That's right. You're going to get through this. This will be good.

1:54:56Justin Andrews:Absolutely. I've got my 18-year-old daughter. She's taking a gap year and she's here with me all the time. and she asked me that i was just like mom we should start going to the gym and i was like we should she's she's really interested in it so i think that would be motivation too to you know hell yeah include maybe get strong with her yes include them in this process that support is

1:55:20Adam Schafer:going to help so much i'm going to have someone reach out to you in the meantime we're going to mail you the suspension trainer you'll get the two programs and then i hope to see you i know we're not too far from you so i hope we get a chance to meet you and you can come oh i would

1:55:32Justin Andrews:love to come up and visit i would love that okay awesome awesome we'll set it up lissa thank you so much guys i really appreciate it you guys are just the best thank you thank you we'll be in

1:55:42Adam Schafer:touch for everything you do take care all right all right well i'm glad that's that's uh that's good motivation great attitude you know great attitude perfect place great place wow man we

1:55:51Sal Di Stefano:got uh two today like that yep you know again uh it seems so like the the simple answer jump to 2 ,000 to 2 ,300 calories, lift weights three times a day, or three times a week, and solves everything. But it's like, that is, to get there.

1:56:07Adam Schafer:Any severe challenge. A mental battle to get there. By the way, for people listening right now who are like, oh, just do this.

1:56:11Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, it's not.

1:56:12Adam Schafer:You know you got your stuff. Everybody does. That thing you can't stop, and the answer is stop doing it, and you can't. Yeah. That's what they're dealing with, and it's very difficult, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's just a process. Yeah. Our next caller is Sarah from Colorado. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

1:56:29Justin Andrews:I'm good. Thanks for having me on.

1:56:31Adam Schafer:How can we help you?

1:56:34Justin Andrews:I'm just going to read my question because I'm really nervous. Okay. My heart's racing. So thanks so much for taking my question. I've been listening over the past year and pretty much binging the podcast on my daily walks. I've learned a ton from you. For a little context, I'm 41, a full-time working mom of two boys and a PE teacher, so I'm active throughout the day. Between my job and walking, I average around 15 ,000 steps per day. Fitness has always been a part of my life. I was a professional ballet dancer for a time, later a collegiate cyclist with a very endurance-heavy background, and I also spent years doing CrossFit.

1:57:12Justin Andrews:At this stage of life, I found that doing three full-body workouts per week and walking gives me the best return on investment. I feel strong, consistent, and not burnt out, which is important to me right now. My question is about VO2 max and longevity. I keep hearing it described as one of the strongest predictors of long-term health, which makes me wonder if I should be doing more intentional cardio or interval work. At the same time, I'm pretty much burnt out on structured endurance training and honestly don't enjoy HIIT unless it's totally necessary. from your perspective for someone who is already strength training consistently and highly active day to day is there a meaningful added benefit to deliberately training vo2 max for longevity or is it often overemphasized compared to just keeping strong maintaining muscle and staying active with lots of walking and daily movements as we get older i love how you put that last

1:58:10Adam Schafer:sentence totally that's exactly how i feel yeah so there's uh generally yeah there's benefits to improving vo2 max through some hit training for longevity specifically for you no you hate it and i know your background professional ballet dancer cyclists crossfit uh you probably uh had a relationship and maybe you even struggle with this a little now with fitness where it was like beating yourself up and you're probably over it you're probably over it you're like i don't want to do that to myself anymore and i think training hit is going to probably move you in an unhealthy place you're in a you're in a beautiful place you're crushing yeah you're in a beautiful place

1:58:47Sal Di Stefano:you're right where i someone with your past and what you've done where you're right you're right

1:58:51Adam Schafer:where i don't it's not going to improve your longevity for you i think it would make things

1:58:54Sal Di Stefano:worse and by the way if you ever like we let's say we were training together for years and you're like you know i'm just curious you could spend two weeks and improve vo2 max dramatically like Like, literally, you can, like, cardiovascular endurance comes back like this.

1:59:09Adam Schafer:Not to mention building muscle automatically increases VO2 max. People don't know that. Yeah. It automatically does because of the oxygen consumption of muscle mass. By the way, you like strength training? I love it. You want to get a little VO2 max? Do a few weeks where you're resting 30 seconds between sets of squats. Yeah. Yeah. Do 15 reps of squats. Yeah, high reps. Rest 30 seconds, go do another 15 reps. Boom, you're set. Yeah. if you really want but here's the important thing for someone like you sarah with your background make sure it's something you enjoy yeah because because because your past because i've trained ballet people don't appreciate professional ballet incredibly challenging yeah and also very body focused it's one of the more difficult spaces to come out of for women some of the most difficult clients i've ever worked with i love where you're at and yeah so i'm like enjoy it so just go and enjoy it

2:00:03Sal Di Stefano:you walking and moving as much as you're walking and moving with three days of full body training I mean we are in the

2:00:09Adam Schafer:sweet spot right now now here's the real question how is your relationship with diet because I know that's the big struggle with people with that background

2:00:18Justin Andrews:I feel like I've dodged that bullet somehow yeah I mean I considered going to culinary school I love food I feel very very fortunate especially I mean even cycling people can get weird with that stuff yeah yeah yeah yeah No, I feel like I eat pretty well.

2:00:43Adam Schafer:Good.

2:00:44Justin Andrews:You're fine. Yeah.

2:00:45Adam Schafer:You're not just fine. You're killing it. Yeah. Don't overthink it. Yeah. You know what can happen a lot of times to people is they go on fitness social media and then they start hearing all these little studies and this and that. And then they start questioning things. But the way you ask your question, it sounds like you kind of know the answer. You want a little confirmation. You're perfect. Yeah.

2:01:05Sal Di Stefano:No, 15 ,000 steps, three full body workouts. eat balanced meals that's longevity right yeah yeah great that's that's where i want you i don't want you moving out of that i love that perfect yeah killing it you're killing it yeah good job through the course thanks so much thanks sarah yeah that's uh that's a beautiful spot yeah and

2:01:28Adam Schafer:you know what again so here's why this is why um it's so important like being a coach and a trainer you work with different people if this was a general question would a person get some longevity benefits to adding something to improve vo2 max so long as it's programmed properly blah blah blah yeah generally you'd be like yeah yes for for her no not with your background not with the fact that you already said you hate it and you don't want to get burnt out it's going to make you more unhealthy it's going to it's going to contribute to worse longevity not better longevity this is

2:02:01Sal Di Stefano:with the nuance is really and and you also i mean you want you want to increase that go do 15 15 short rest periods you got it and you will you will absolutely get that or you decide one month you're going to do it for two weeks two weeks get after it and then get right back to your and watch i mean this we uh this is what i don't like about studies like that uh and the way she phrased the last sentence i can't i don't remember how exactly how she said it but she said it like beautifully like in the context of where she's at you know she's oh is it uh is it often over emphasized compared to just keeping strong maintaining muscle and staying active with lots of walking and daily movement as we get older yeah yeah it's like that the you stay strong you move you stay mobile move and do that that is a way better win for sure all day 100 look if you

2:02:47Adam Schafer:like the show come find us on instagram mind pump media we'll see you there thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic.

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