2829: Why That Pesky Last 10 Pounds Won't Come Off

18:14Sal Di Stefano:To lose weight rapidly and to cut as hard as they could. So they were doing things like that. And because you have a bunch of trainers who probably are in very healthy, metabolic places, too. Keep that in consideration, too. It's just like they're coming from a healthy, metabolic place. You're talking about some situations that could have people that aren't healthy, have hormone issues. These are all very balanced.

18:35Adam Schafer:This is a bias of fit people.

18:37Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. So if anybody should have an easy time of shredding down, it should be these guys and girls. And oh, yeah, at least half would come back and be incredibly frustrated. And you had situations where trainers' body fat percentage actually went up.

18:54Adam Schafer:Because they would lose weight on the scale. Yeah. They're like super encouraged. I'm winning. Yes. I lost 10 pounds.

18:59Sal Di Stefano:Yes.

18:59Adam Schafer:But they did it through too much calorie restriction and too much cardio. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

19:03Sal Di Stefano:And that's exactly what happened. And like I said, like it would have resulted in is a bunch of pissed off trainers. It was such an – that – I talk about that time in my career, and I want to – I'm trying to remember what year. I'm at Santa Teresa. So I'm about eight, nine years into my career at that time, maybe a little further along. And so I consider myself a relatively experienced. This is towards the good part of being – I consider myself good. So that was a very eye-opening moment for me that time. And then, of course, when I got into competing and took that to a whole other level on consistency and also be presenting myself and even lower, really just opened my eyes to how easily people can dip into that.

19:46Adam Schafer:How the body works.

19:48Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, exactly. And how that can fluctuate. And I mean, just, you know, I hope Corinne, I'll ask her today. I know she listens because she's heard us talking about her. I hope she's okay and comfortable with me continuing to share. but I think she's such a great example because she's brilliant. She knows what to do. She's great at coaching clients that are showing this, but even herself is challenged with this. And we have these moments where we just had a week where I gave her a diet break and we have a diet break and I cut her like 500 calories a day, 500 calories a day. Her steps were like at 10 ,000, which is increased from 8 ,000 steps.

20:26Sal Di Stefano:So where she's no cardio, but just increased activity, reduced calories and so we really was more about the diet break uh and every sunday we have a check-in photos weights i get all her stats and everything like that uh and we're up two and a half pounds on the scale post period too by the way so so last weigh in things of that we're in the thick of period holding water all things so that so logically you know as trainers you go okay okay, there's no way she's gaining fat in this week, but her body weight on the scale is up two or three pounds in a calorie reduction like that. And so the body, we expect it to work on this perfect 24-hour clock because that's what we've decided a day is, but it doesn't work that way.

21:14Sal Di Stefano:Your hormones are fluctuating, your sodium intake, and the way your body is storing water. There's so many things that can manipulate. the time you decided to get on the scale that day and hop on it and measure it and it can be really discouraging. And I think the common mistake is the course correction when you're doing a lot of the right things. And so it's super common. Trainers are not immune to it. They battle with it just as much. But again, the big lessons that I have learned through that is to trust the process and to continue to stay the course. Because what I have found is in a lot of times, like what I'll expect to happen from like with Corinne is continuing down the path we're going.

22:03Sal Di Stefano:And then all of a sudden, it seems like the body catches up. And the analogy I kind of give is the way we talk about how children grow. Yeah, spurts. Yeah, in these weird spurts. It's not like you feed, when you feed your kid, when your kid rests and they grow over years. We all know that. Everybody knows this, right? And what we used to think, what scientists used to think back in the days, it was just this real incremental, slow, gradual, all the time type of growth. And what we've learned is that it's not like that at all. In fact, they can look flatlined for a period of time and then all of a sudden, boom, this like spurt happens.

22:38Sal Di Stefano:And a lot of times in the muscle building game and the fat loss game, your body responds that way. You doing all the right things and so on. It's just like no results, no results. This sucks. I'm not seeing the results. maybe even see a little bit of negative results and then boom one week you have and it's like you look like you lost a percent or two body fat and so this this makes this difficult for people

23:02Adam Schafer:it does i remember for myself uh one of the first times i allowed myself i say allowed because my challenge was uh you know i always wanted to gain weight uh but the first time i actually stuck through a diet where i was trying to get myself down to like below 10%. I remember it got kind of hard towards 9 % body fat. You know, appetite goes up the whole deal, but I got there and then I bumped my calories. I'm like, cool, I got here. Let me just eat more and bump my calories. Now at this time I had been doing regular caliper testing. Okay. So body fat testing, I had somebody test me and I remember I bumped my calories, was eating more.

23:42Adam Schafer:Of course you feel great, more energy, stronger in the gym. And two weeks later, I'm like, I just out of curiosity, let me see where my body fat percentage is. I went up on the scale. I don't remember how many pounds, like four or five pounds. And I was down to just below 8%. And I remember being like, what? How did this, how was it that I ate more and I got leaner? I built, I built into it. You know, body fat percentage, this is a percentage of your body that's body fat. So what that means is if you're listening right now and I snap my fingers and you gain 10 pounds of just muscle, just muscle.

24:15Adam Schafer:So you're 10 pounds heavier on the scale. Your body fat percentage went down, even if you don't lose a single pound of body fat. So I think, uh, what a lot of people need to do in this situation here, where they've been losing, losing, losing, they've been doing the, what they think is the right thing, cutting their calories and doing more activity. Now they're stuck with that plateau, that stubborn last, whatever, 10 pounds, 15 pounds, build your way out of it. Watch what happens. It's, this is when the magic starts to happen.

24:41Sal Di Stefano:You're working with your body. I will add to that, though, to mentally prepare you psychologically, because the most difficult part is there's an uncomfortable phase of that, and I think that's why it gets so difficult, which we've all, whether you're the person who is obsessed with getting big, and so the cutting part, or vice versa, you're afraid to get big, there'll come a time where you're doing the right things, and you'll feel uncomfortable or it won't feel right. And I can't stress enough, the advice you're giving is right, is just to keep building the direction. And what I have found, so long as you're eating whole foods, hitting your protein intake, right, and feeding the body that way, you won't put on a bunch of body fat.

25:32Adam Schafer:No, you're not going to mess up real quick. Yeah.

25:33Sal Di Stefano:If you reverse diet and you're basically calling your reverse diet a reverse diet, but what you're really doing is just allowing yourself to eat whatever you want, whenever you want, and you're hungry. That's where -

25:43Adam Schafer:Healthy food. Yeah.

25:44Sal Di Stefano:But if you do this where you're, like you're saying, is reverse diet out, when you're hungry, feed a whole natural meal type of deal and leave with protein. That's what I mean. I don't think I've ever seen anybody not have success. They will probably go through a little bit of an uncomfortable phase. If you're really low calorie and you have someone bump 300 to 500 calories, that could be a third of their day. You'll gain water weight for sure. Yeah, you're going to gain some water weight that you're going to hold on to a little bit, which will make you feel like, oh my God, I got fatter. But trust me, 500 calories didn't put a pound of fat on you.

26:20Sal Di Stefano:Even if it put two or three pounds on the scale, it didn't put a pound of fat on you. And just keep going that direction and you will eventually speed that metabolism up. You will build your way out of that body fat reduction you want. And then kind of what we talked about the other day, so many times too, and this is a recent lesson for myself, the last body fat test that discouraged or upset me. But then, which I thought was so, this is the opposite of a situation I've had. I felt like I look pretty good. Wives compliment me. I'm feeling pretty good. I'm back to the walking around naked in the house, brushing my teeth, get a body fat test that came back, went, that's not good.

27:00Sal Di Stefano:and that and it messed with my head and because i'm like it wasn't the number that i expected i'm really good at being able to guess that but the truth is i just have i have more muscle under the body fat that i have this time and when i actually think about it i'm like you know what i i like that i don't mind i don't and so a lot of people are stuck on this scale number or body fat percentage number but if they would just put more muscle on their body funny a woman at 24 body fat

27:24Adam Schafer:who gains muscle and even stays the same body fat so she gained some body fat with it so 24 24 for more muscle, you'll look leaner. You have more shape on your body. You've got more sculpt. Same thing for a man. So yeah, more muscle looks better at higher body fat percentage than less muscle does.

27:40Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah. So I had a question for you guys. Recently, have either one of you guys almost gotten into a street fight? It wasn't a street fight.

27:50Justin Andrews:Or like a field fight. I've been holding on.

27:53Adam Schafer:I've been dying. Yes, dude. Oh, man.

27:56Justin Andrews:I texted right away because it was so shocking you know like i think um you hear a lot of stories of like little league games and and you know where parents go crazy and like just too interactive and they just don't let the refs and really like what's crazy about so i i left the studio and i was like wasn't sure if i was gonna make the game because it's pretty far to get there from here this is uh everett's flag football yeah so he's having a flag football game so he's in the playoffs now so oh there's that extra bit intensity you know and so um i left and i got there a little bit before the half so i kind of didn't get a lot of the context of like how the game's been going like courtney wasn't like keep me updated i get in there and it's like just you could feel the tension like already very good game like and so we were actually behind by like two touchdowns uh when i got there and then we started making all this progress like right when i got there and i'm just like yeah like, you know, yelling, looking back at me.

28:58Justin Andrews:And it was like the coaches were close to us. The spectators are on one side. Our team's on the other side. And so there was a lot of, like, engagement between their coaches. So you're on the visitor side? We're on the visitor side with this. So I think that's kind of where, you know, some of the conflict, when you get into the intensity of, like, you know, that's my son out there and you're not making a call. Like it, there was a lot of talking with their coach was very, very overstepping with the referees. And he was like, you know, he's flag guarding and he's doing this. Like, like every single thing, how much time are they going to have on the field to figure this out?

29:43Justin Andrews:And he's like counting down the seconds they had in between plays and like saying like, they're going over. And it was like, just overkill, you know? And, And I'm just kind of like just trying to acclimate and get there and see what's going on. And, you know, Courtney's trying to update me with this. And there was like a lot of this chatter from one of the moms on our side and their coach specifically. And it was like, rah, rah, rah, rah, rah.

30:09Sal Di Stefano:So she's in the stand and she's barking at him and he's down in the field?

30:13Justin Andrews:Yeah.

30:13Sal Di Stefano:So there's no stands. It was all field.

30:16Justin Andrews:So it was like a soccer field. Ah, got it. Yeah. And so we were like, I was like in the shade. So it was a hot day. So there was like a whole bunch of parents like in the shade. And there was parents that were like right there on the field, right next to behind their team. And the other part was funny because I was showing up knowing that it's the team that like I grew up at this school. And they, so every time we play them, there's just like added bit, like I kind of know their kids and I kind of know the mentality. like it's really funny coming back to sports now as an adult and you see kind of like the culture of different schools and like kind of the vibe and like so we grew up and our fans were like really engaged and like very like uh you know vocal yeah and my dad still kind of has that energy and i'm always like calming him down like dad you know like let's let the the game play let the kids have fun let the refs call the game yeah yeah and so nobody was like checking the fans and you know regulating this and so it just kept getting more intense and more intense we started coming back um and you know the kids were were feeling a lot of this and uh then they started to kind of like scuffle and like it was getting a little bit violent like one of the kids like were grabbing for the flag and then ends up tackling the kid.

31:45Justin Andrews:And then they're, oh, and then the parents get all crazy. So anyway, it turns out, like, we ended up winning the game. So you guys came back and won. Came back, won, and it was, like, it was epic. Like, we got, like, a safety. And then, like, so we just won by, like, I think it was, like, two points or maybe four. I think they missed, like, some extra point conversions along the way. But super close. And it was, like, a great game. Like, I wish it was just the game, you know, with the kids and that was it. Right. And we all like, yeah, good game, good game, you know, good sportsmanship. But it was like, it just got kind of escalated after the game.

32:22The coaches kind of came over and they were like barking at some of the parents.

32:27Justin Andrews:And one of the coaches, this is where I kind of got triggered because one of the moms like was kind of still yelling because of one of the calls. Even after she won? so this was like it's like yeah we're like right at the end yeah she said something and then one of their coaches was like who let this lady out out of the house and like get back in the kitchen you know yeah dude like super derogatory and i was just like i was like i was like hey watch your mouth you know i'm like i yelled back at their coach because i just was like dude that's not cool you know and uh and so they're all just and he turns around and just kind of like looks back and uh he sees justice well so i'll be quiet so we have another uh a parent who's he's this big jacked like asian guy and he's um one of his kids like plays i've seen him at basketball games but he just like calmly kind of walks over uh to to their coaches after the game and he's just like trying to like like hey man like what why like why are you guys engaging so much you know with let's just let the kids play and he was trying to be kind of like check them and be a little bit diplomatic about it but then the coaches like kind of went off the hinges on him so yelling at him getting his face what and then like this other coach was kind of swarming over to the side of him and then some other people were coming this way and so i was just like you know talking to courtney and I saw this all kind of forming.

33:57Justin Andrews:You know how when they start swarming and trying to kind of like zone in on one person? I was like, nah, dude. So I just, I walked right up to them and I kind of tapped one of the coaches on the shoulder. I was like, what's going on over here? And he just kind of looks over at me. She's like, oh, no, no, no, no. We're a good boss. Fist bump. We're a good boss. And then he's like yelling. He grabs the coaches. No, no, we got to go.

34:23Adam Schafer:Yeah, because Justin came over.

34:26Justin Andrews:It was so funny, dude, because it was like literally on the brink of, and you felt it. Like, you know, it's in the air. Like, I felt like they were going to, like, attack this guy.

34:35Adam Schafer:That's exactly what I pictured. When you texted us, I'm like, oh, I know what happened. They started getting loud at each other, and then Justin walked over, and they thought, it's probably not a good idea. We should probably chill out. Well, I was telling Sal when you were out in the bathroom,

34:48Sal Di Stefano:I said, Justin has, when these moments happen, Justin has that look on his face that's like, I want to use that shoulder press strike. I'm looking for an excuse.

34:58Adam Schafer:He's got all those bearings in my belly.

35:00Justin Andrews:I've been bearing this shit. Let me let it out. I have some moves I want to use. I've never really kicked somebody hard. I've always wanted to do that. Oh, my God. I want to uppercut. Oh, my God. I was thinking about these things in my head. I was like, it just doesn't make a switch, though, because I'm like, well, he disrespected. I'm like, I'm not okay with that. If they do anything, they're done. And it just... You know what's the funny?

35:24Sal Di Stefano:You know the funny thing about this is that if all four of us were put in a situation like this, the most likely to fight would be Justin and then Doug. Probably. And then you or I. Which I think is so opposite of what people would think. I don't know.

35:37Justin Andrews:I could see you if somebody had disrespect to jumping in right away.

35:40Sal Di Stefano:Okay, what I'm quick about. So if someone was messing with one of you. You're like defending. That's what it was for me. Yeah, yeah. If one of you guys, I would definitely be the first person. Yeah, if it was my wife.

35:48Justin Andrews:That's right. And she didn't have like her husband wasn't there or anything. shoes and they were kind of like verbally attacking her and like yeah yeah and i was just like no anyways it was one of those things you know what's okay with it you know it just reminds me of that

36:02Adam Schafer:video you guys uh showed me was it you that showed me from that actor from jack reacher oh yeah yeah what's the actor's name does anybody know i don't know everybody knows him by jack reacher yeah he's got a body cam on and he's riding his motorcycle with his kids with his kids and his kids have like motorbikes and they look young bro they look like they're seven eight maybe nine maybe i don't know Like little kids. Alan Richson. Okay. And they're riding around a neighborhood and his body cam, you can watch the video online. And one of his neighbors stands in front of him to the point where he has to dump his bike.

36:32Adam Schafer:Yeah, yeah. He's like, you're riding around this neighborhood. He's like yelling at him. Yeah. And he's like, yo, man, are you drunk? Like, what's going on? And so they go back and forth a little bit, gets on his bike again, and he's obviously irritated. So he revs it. Yeah. The neighbor gets right in front of him again. And then that's when he snaps and punches the guy. But I'm like, what a terrible situation to be in because your kids are there. Yeah. You know, it's like part of me is like, I don't want to get violent in front of my kids. But then part of me is also like.

37:01Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I think he handled it right.

37:02Adam Schafer:You're doing this in front of my kids.

37:03Sal Di Stefano:I think he handled it right. Yeah. Like, I mean, I think that. Goes through your mind in the moment. I think he did it. I think. He eventually. He pushes the guy down. Yeah, I mean, he eventually pushes the guy down and pummeled his ass. He shoved him, yeah. But I mean, he first tried to defuse it. It was like, what are you doing? You know what I'm saying? And the guy was still, you know, berating. It would be different if he hopped off his bike and just started whooping the dude's ass. That's a different story.

37:23Adam Schafer:But he jumped in front of him, which is dangerous. He had to dump his bike as a result. But that's like the last thing you want to do as a parent. Because listen, you might think it's like you get in a situation like that, lose your temper. It's terrifying for your kids to see their dad do that.

37:39Sal Di Stefano:Remember, you shared this story a long time ago about the kid who threw a basketball at the back seat.

37:44Adam Schafer:Yeah, dude. He threw a ball. I was driving. This is when my older kids were little. and we're driving. There's teenage kids playing basketball. And as we drove by, one of them thought it would be funny to throw the basketball at the car. And it bounced off the back window. My daughter, who at the time was little, she was a little, she was like three or four maybe. And I'm already feeling the fumes because they hit the ball up. And I was going to keep driving, but then I looked at my rear view mirror. My daughter looked terrified and I was it. I snapped. That's when I pulled over. They all ran inside and I tore their basketball hoop off their thing.

38:15Adam Schafer:My kids never forgot that. Yeah. You know, that whole thing. And I regret losing my temper like that or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But, oh, man.

38:23Sal Di Stefano:Did I share with you guys the, like, I told you when the whole thing happened with my car, the MA getting, like, totaled, right? Yeah. Like, I was, like, trying to, what is the lesson that I'm supposed to get from all this? I'd say one of the things that, like, came up for me that was really interesting, I shared with Katrina. She's like, oh, my God, I've never heard you tell that story before. And I'm like, well, I hadn't, I said I hadn't thought about it. It hadn't came up. Because I was, like, really trying to figure out, like, what is this supposed to be about? I was supposed to be like detachment from material things, like whatever, and not care.

38:50Sal Di Stefano:And I don't know. You guys weren't around. I think Doug saw a little bit. But I was really just so calm about the whole thing and concerned about the guy who hit it and everything like that. Inside, my heart was broken. But really tried to handle it with like, OK, what's my lesson here? And so when I was 16, the first real materialistic thing that I ever obsessed over or loved was my Acura Integra. It was the first car. It was the first thing I ever got that was worth more than$1 ,000. And I love that car. Every dollar that every paycheck went into that thing. And so I don't know if you know this, but right after I had it for like maybe six months, I'm in the middle lane to turn into a grocery store to go left.

39:35Sal Di Stefano:And it's just pouring down rain. It's that kind of rain where your windshield wipers go as fast as possible, and they still can't clear the rain off fast enough. It's raining like that. and uh a lady drifts over and clips me and when i i'm in the rain and i'm in that and it slides i in my head think it's like a little bump and i get out and i see my car and it's actually smashed in the exact same spot looks exactly the same as the m8 and i go i go apeshit i'm a stupid 16 and a half 17 year old kid you know and someone just broke my toy and i'm screaming and yelling and i'm all irate out in the middle of the road with night raining down and i'm going and it was an old lady that was in the car and she was so scared she wouldn't get out of the car oh until the cops came the cops finally came and were there was when she finally would open her door and come out because here's this teenage boy who's yeah you know scared yes yes yeah and i don't i can't see who she is that you're just mad i'm just mad but i was cussing and swearing and swinging my arms and just like so pissed when i saw it i thought oh that's so crazy because that was i mean i walked up on that situation with that guy and it was the total opposite it was like i didn't do that at all i was more concerned about i was like bro we should probably get out of the car because he's in the middle of the middle of the street still and he was totally kind of out of it but i had forgot about that memory completely about that part of that at least at that part of that moment i was like oh

40:56Adam Schafer:that's right i forgot that when you saw the old lady did you say sorry or were you still no totally

41:00Sal Di Stefano:not i was you're still no totally i was so in my own my own moment yeah i was and i'm a young dumb 17 year old kid i i still was mad at her you know i'm saying like i didn't the only reason i only thought about that now was like oh that's right i forgot that she was so scared that she stayed in

41:16Adam Schafer:her car i had someone scare me in my car like terrified the hell out of me when i was 16 years old i was driving this when i had a uh i bought my first car that was mine was a toyota pickup truck and i put rims on it was just a four banger like there's i didn't even have ac or power steering but you know it's my own car but you had ribs i had rims on it you know and i and i thought it was fast which it wasn't it was like 160 horsepower you know four four center but i was driving and there was a truck next to me and i thought i'd race them because that's what i did all the time and i took off at the light went in front of them put my hazards on because that's what you do when you beat someone right to show them and then i brake checked them a little bit like oh yeah i beat you well it turned out to be the biggest human being i've ever seen in my life he pulled up next to me and he was so mad and yelling at me and he was huge he was the big he

42:05Justin Andrews:was jacked and huge and yelling at somebody that is and i and i kept and i was looking at him and

42:10Adam Schafer:i kept saying to him i'm just a kid i'm just a kid and then i got i had to stop at a stoplight yeah and i stopped and he got out of his car and he was just as big as i thought he was and he tried to rip my side view mirror off and i kept telling him i'm just a kid and he got in his car and took off and i remember being like oh man that was really scary and years later, so now I'm 18, I'm the fitness manager at 24 Hour Fitness in Hillsdale. One of my trainers was a competitive bodybuilder. Brought in his friend, Mr. San Jose. It was that guy. He didn't recognize me. Mr. San Jose. Yeah, he walks in.

42:46Adam Schafer:I know who you're talking about. Big white dude. Yes. Massive white dude. He was at a gold gym. Yeah. Huge white dude. This was back in 97 or 98. I used to call him Troy. So you can look him up if you want. He looks like that guy from Troy. But he walked in. He didn't recognize me, of course, but I looked at him like, oh shit.

43:04Justin Andrews:i had something like that but i was like in college and i was like pulling out of campus and there's this guy like you know i could see him in my rearview mirror like just like tailgating everybody behind and like swerving going all crazy uh and then he finally got to me and so i decided like oh screw this guy i'm gonna break check him and i just kept break checking him and I could see the guy raging and going crazy. And then we get to the stoplight and I'm here and he's next to me and he's like yelling and I'm rolling down my window. I was like, what are you going to do? And he literally takes his gun out of the center console.

43:42Justin Andrews:He's got it like this. And I just immediately was like, oh, and it turned right and just sped out to the right, like right as, dude. Like I still think about that today. like that's all been a huge deterrent for me to ever like get in the road rage stuff and it's like why why like why did i even get involved obviously he was like running from the cops or like something like he was not you never know you don't want to mess yeah now it's like so hard to

44:08Adam Schafer:get me like in that space now like someone's doing something or whatever i'm like whatever it's not a big deal and i yeah i've even had the thought like i've even had this thought where like someone's racing and trying to get around me or whatever i'm like what if it's like an emergency what if the dude's trying to get somewhere or something like that you never know you know i

44:25Sal Di Stefano:mean katrina's the master at that she always has the ability like in those moments to like think of yeah well what if this and it's like oh god okay what do you make me feel terrible you know i'm saying like that's like you never you don't know you have no idea what that person is you know what it was it was going through or on their way to yeah so when i told this story it's just

44:40Adam Schafer:horrible happened to him i just remembered now i i told this story maybe a couple years later so i'm 19 or 20 told the exact story i just said to a friend of mine who then told me this is a made-up story and he's like you know he's like this is let me tell you a story that'll help you and he's like a dad gets on us on on a bus with his two kids and they're just acting up and they're just screaming and climbing the seats and throwing things and everybody's looking at this dad like why don't you do something about it why don't you finally one of the kids spits and it hits this woman and she stands up and screams at the dad what kind of father are you why aren't you you know helping your kids and he looks at her goes i'm sorry their mother just passed away and they don't know how to handle it and i remember when i heard that it crushed me yeah and i'm like you know what you don't know what people are going through they could very well be massive jerks but they could also be going yeah yeah who knows anyway uh i was uh uh some more studies are coming out on the best form of exercise for skin form of exercise for skin like what form of exercise improves the way skin looks the best i'm gonna ask not cardio yeah i'm gonna you guys know the answer this yeah you know this when you've seen fitness fanatics and the kind of exercise they do there's a difference in their skin.

45:47Adam Schafer:There is. Here's what they found in the study. Strength training, by far, was the best because it increases collagen production systemically. So when you lift weights, obviously if you're building muscle, you're getting lots of protein synthesis. Part of this is collagen production.

46:03Justin Andrews:Okay, I was thinking oxidative stress was probably like - Well, that's the other part, but too much of any exercise.

46:08Adam Schafer:Sure. But it was the only form of exercise to really, really boost collagen production in the skin. So it's like the best form of exercise with good-looking skin.

46:18Sal Di Stefano:Is that like every time you're working out, you get this boost from it? Or is it like a sustained thing by carrying more lean body mass, you get it? Both. Both, yeah.

46:28Adam Schafer:You get this signal that says boost protein synthesis, and then over time, your body carries more collagen, matrices, more just muscle fibers, larger muscle fibers. So it's literally, you know, you think of strength training as muscle building. It's protein building, which includes collagen, which is a protein. Speaking of skin, by the way. So Caldera Lab, right, one of our partners, one of the reasons why they're so good at what they do, they have a term called biomimetics. Biomimetics. And essentially what their theory or their methodology is, is they are trying to find and work with natural ingredients that act like skin.

47:14Adam Schafer:So do our formulas mimic, and I'm reading off their website, the skin's natural pathways? In other words, is this how the body, the skin naturally moisturizes, naturally boosts collagen production, naturally reduces damage from UV rays? and that's the foundation of where they look at their compounds and their formulations. So they're not trying to like, because there's different ways to look at this. You can look at it from like, let's figure out what chemicals do this, that, the other. Or you could say, how does the skin work and what helps the skin work better? How do you work with the skin?

47:51Adam Schafer:How do you enhance it? How do you have to measure something like that? I don't know, dude. Yeah.

47:54Sal Di Stefano:Well, I mean, obviously there's a way to do it because we've used, people have used pharmaceuticals to clear skin and do things like that, right? But that's normally like they're killing the bacteria or killing something. Yeah, it's kind of taking over the job.

48:05Adam Schafer:No, that's a good point. Like you want to get rid of a bunch of bacteria, we could either antibiotic the hell out of you or we could figure out a way to improve the microbiome of whatever we're looking at.

48:14Sal Di Stefano:Right, and that's got to be the difference, right? Like most of your chemical face products are designed to like kill and like start over on it, right? Like an antibiotic where this is doing something more like a probiotic. That's right. I don't know if that's a way to do it.

48:29Adam Schafer:No, no, that's a good example. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. Doug, that picture you pulled up before, by the way, that was not Mr. San Jose. That was Mike Matarazzo, who was a -

48:37Justin Andrews:Yeah, I couldn't find your Mr. San Jose.

48:39Adam Schafer:Yeah, I would love to see a picture of this guy. I'm trying to remember. I feel like I know who it is. Six foot tall, white dude, flat top. Oh, flat top? Oh, he was bald, the one I'm thinking of. Maybe he was bald. He was six foot. He was a tall dude for a bodybuilder. Obviously huge.

48:54Justin Andrews:Jacked, yeah.

48:55Adam Schafer:I'm pretty sure I know who it is. I know. I feel like I know. That's why I want to see a picture. trying to remember is he still personal training i have no idea i think he's still personal training white dude like straight up white dude his face was red when he was yelling at me i remember that part just veins in the forehead i remember that part yeah yeah i feel like we

49:11Sal Di Stefano:have to i mean the chances that we don't know him would be the higher did you guys see what

49:15Adam Schafer:happened with um facebook instagram with meta no okay so they just i'll pull it up oh wait so did

49:23Justin Andrews:Did they just pull a lot of their VR? I heard that they downsized because that was like a huge miss for them.

49:31Adam Schafer:I know that they're cutting on that, but that's not the article. Okay. So the article shows LA jury came out with a verdict that finds Instagram, YouTube, Instagram and YouTube, sorry, were designed specifically to addict kids. Yeah, no shit. So they had to prove this in court, which that's not good. for them at all that's not a good ruling because if you are found specifically and here's what my question is how do they prove this in the in the court we're trying to make kids like it versus

50:05Sal Di Stefano:make it addicting yeah not only that but like because what's the difference and then does that open the door for the all the gaming companies that do the same exact thing if this kind of

50:16Adam Schafer:verdict sticks and starts to spread you're right and i'm going to say this as a parent uh you know If you use addictive science for children, I think that should be heavily regulated. I do. I really do. Because of the way it affects the brain and development. I think it's a problem. Addictive things for adults, I'm not a fan of either, but at least you're an adult. You can make your own decisions. Yeah.

50:41Justin Andrews:Yeah, you can actually discern whether or not you are addicted. Yeah. They're just susceptible to it.

50:47Adam Schafer:But I used to be this huge give people choices, make their own decisions. I'm largely still that way but more and more I'm realizing that people just we just can't help ourselves

51:03Sal Di Stefano:or some sort of a moral foundation well that for sure

51:06Justin Andrews:have you guys watched that documentary it's about plastics I saw that but I didn't see how pervasive it has become over the last decade or so I forget her name but she was on Joe Rogan before like hilarious lady she talks about phthalates and like yeah she did the study with the taints and all that and the size and like reproductive that's right yeah that study the study that what about oh she measured the taints oh you brought one of you brought that up a long time shorter

51:36Adam Schafer:yeah it gets smaller and smaller the area between the the the front and the back yeah shrinking related to these chemicals just showing all these petrochemicals like you know what i'm

51:47Sal Di Stefano:measured taints i have this weird suspicion that they're shrinking i have a hunch yeah like like

51:54Adam Schafer:how do you come up with i have a hunch about your launch how do you come up how many taints do you have to see before you're like before you have some sort of correlation right to draw to it i

52:02Sal Di Stefano:don't know man these kids are looking smaller than the ones i remember yeah i don't know what

52:06Justin Andrews:websites you go to for that but um yeah so she i mean she was a big part of this uh movement in trying to kind of check a lot of these petrochemicals that are just everywhere. And there's literally, there's so many regulations that you would hope, like, you know, lead back in the day is an example, right? Like we found out that everybody's IQ is dropping like a few points.

52:31Adam Schafer:Yes, and crime went down when we took out lead.

52:35Justin Andrews:So there's all benefits once we started removing that, you know, from gas and from like toys and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, why wouldn't we look at like all these other chemicals that are literally in your everyday life and are not beneficial to you, in fact, are harming? She actually took a bunch. Her experiment in this was with couples in fertility, which I thought was it was really interesting to watch. Like it was like maybe six or seven different couples and they couldn't conceive. And so they were literally trying out to live a life without any of this exposure and everyday contact with phthalates.

53:18Justin Andrews:They just had to literally replace everything. There's a lot of companies out now that actually are trying really hard, like clothing-wise, with drinking bottles, everything else, to start removing a lot of the plastics and a lot of these phthalates. But so what was cool, though, was and it was really like, oh, man, tugged on your heart a bit because they gave their story of how many times they've tried. It's been like 10 years for, you know, some of these couples. And then and then you see them going through a year of this process. And it was like, I think maybe five out of the seven couples or whatever, like we're able to have a kid.

53:57Adam Schafer:Wow.

53:57Justin Andrews:And it was remarkable. And you're like, wow, this is crazy. And then, of course, there were some stipulations with the other ones why it didn't work for them. Five out of seven is not bad for people who are infertile

54:10Adam Schafer:or having those pills.

54:11Justin Andrews:Yeah, it was pretty remarkable. But it just made me think about that, like how crazy inundated we are.

54:18Sal Di Stefano:Clothes, bed sheets. Medicine. Things we drink from medicine. Yeah, I was going to say, what do you think are probably the top five offenders?

54:25Adam Schafer:You know, here's the deal with petrochemicals. You can directly. everything you can directly connect uh the use of uh petroleum and petroleum-based chemicals and the growth of the world's population they are directly related sure and we're so dependent on them that uh this is a way bigger problem than yeah we got to get rid of them yeah so so my

54:51Sal Di Stefano:point is though like if someone was trying to to like minimize their exposure would what would be the first five things that you go to.

55:00Adam Schafer:Your house would be wood, glass, aluminum. You'd have all cotton, bamboo.

55:06Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, but that's unrealistic, Sal. So go back to what I'm saying. Like you're going to, the things are, I think of you lay in your bed for eight hours, right? So that's got to be one of the places. You drink out of a bottle or something like that. So probably avoiding plastic bottles. Cosmetics is a big one. Cosmetics? Big one. Okay. Very big one. Beauty products. What do you got for top five, Doug?

55:26Justin Andrews:Yeah, major sources, soft vinyl toys vinyl flooring cosmetics yeah but that's what that okay so that's

55:32Sal Di Stefano:okay phthalates are commonly found that's what they're found in i would think of like uh like my son's toys aren't affecting me as much like what what's affecting each individual like unless he's sucking on it put it on your mouth i know you think even pvc like the drinking water

55:49Justin Andrews:and all that you got to replace the like copper and uh yeah it's it's just there's so many things that's like yeah where do you start she kind of outlines like a good outline for that you absorb

56:00Adam Schafer:it through skin so it's not like you you know you play with it a toy like i know but okay but so

56:05Sal Di Stefano:then something on your skin like i said like sheets or something like that all night long would be something more than something you just touch for five minutes right yeah cosmetics i'd

56:13Adam Schafer:say is probably one of the worst yeah i would imagine yeah because you're literally putting it on your skin all day yeah i would think drinking drinking out of a water bottle too

56:21Sal Di Stefano:would probably be...

56:22Adam Schafer:Well, that's the microplastics, which is a really big one. Yeah. Did you see that? Oh, that doesn't fall in the same category? So nanoplastics, I don't care what kind of plastic it is. Nanoplastics just get stored in your organs. So it could be phthalate-free nanoplastics, but it doesn't matter. They accumulate. There was that one, right? That one study with people with Alzheimer's. They found like a teaspoon worth of nanoparticles in their brain. That's a lot. Yeah, dude. That's a lot for inside the brain. Yeah. It is. Like a teaspoon.

56:50Justin Andrews:That's what freaked me out. I started taking psyllium husk as a result of that. Yeah.

56:55Adam Schafer:Yeah. Is that a supplement to help with that? So we think so. Things that bind. So psyllium husk might help. You know what else they found that helps? Probiotics. Oh, yeah? I was saving this for a commercial, but I'll talk about it later.

57:07Justin Andrews:There's a freebie there. No, no, no.

57:10Adam Schafer:Probiotics are shown to, because your gut microbiome can get rid of a lot of nanoproxia. plastics yeah and so there are strains of bacteria that do it yeah but they actually tested it like

57:21Justin Andrews:specifically yeah and i mean if you look to like a lot of it was i don't know dude it the documentary kind of has this bias right it's like kind of anti-capitalist on some level right because it's trying to really pressure the the companies responsible but you start looking at it too like um they were misleading the consumer by saying like all these things were recyclable which there was this big movement there and then it it boosted sales and it lasted for another decade of like

57:50Adam Schafer:really inundating us with more plastic you know it's one of my favorite examples further you know it's one of my favorite examples of like a we made it we just we made a bad stupid decision playgrounds right the floor on the playgrounds yeah yeah rubber the rubber tires bro that's toxic rubber shredded bro just giving off all the all the high school football fields too the heat It expresses it. We used to play on wood. It was tambour. All the high school football fields are out of that, too.

58:18Sal Di Stefano:All the AstroTurf.

58:19Adam Schafer:It's the same thing.

58:20Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, it's all little tiny. I hate that because I slide and get in my eyes. So AstroTurf, all the high school football fields now that are all nice and pretty and they're perfect and they don't have to be watered, what they're using is tiny little particles of recycled tires.

58:35Justin Andrews:Rubber beads.

58:36Adam Schafer:Yeah. Doug, look at how much, like what kind of chemical exposure, say chemical exposure from playground flooring. I'd like to see what that says because you can smell it if it's hot. Oh, yeah. You know, and it's all bouncy. I guess it's safe. But meanwhile, my kid's getting, you know, feminized or something. I don't know. I do. It's like turning, you know, it's like xenoestrogen to my skin. Like playground surface. What does that say? Hold on. Made from recycled tire crumb, poured in place, rubber and artificial turf contain toxic chemicals yeah including lead oh my god wow are you serious and endocrine disruptors that can pose risk to children via inhalation ingestion or skin cut so no one's going to eat the flooring well i'm sure some yeah well you think about the kids but skin contact and breathing they talked about the kids on playing

59:24Sal Di Stefano:football they're about you're getting tackled and it comes flying up it's like all these tiny little black dots i got my eyes and like yeah i was always like so for sure like it's ingested You get it in your mouth and getting tackled on a football field.

59:36Adam Schafer:What was wrong with Tambark? Why did we switch it out? Is there something wrong with Tambark? Bro, money, bro. Money. It can't be cheaper than Tambark. I think the perception of the bounciness of it. There's billions of tires that just get thrown away.

59:50Sal Di Stefano:They found a way to reuse a material.

59:51Adam Schafer:No, I think Justin's right. I may be wrong. I bet you Tambark is cheaper, but the parents like the bouncy safety.

59:58Sal Di Stefano:I'll bet that all day long. Tambark is not cheaper than the recycled rubber tires.

1:00:02Adam Schafer:Is artificial, not artificial turf, but what did I say? Well, because if it's trash. Exactly. It's trash. Yeah, I don't know. Put down, say, is the rubberized playground flooring cheaper than Tambark? Let's see what that says. I think Tambark's cheap, dude. That's like. No, it's not. You don't think so? No.

1:00:20Sal Di Stefano:Have you ever put Tambark in? I mean, I did it for my house. I mean, it's cheap. It's not like crazy expensive. It's not like laying tile. But it's certainly recycled tires that are thrown away have to be cheaper.

1:00:33Adam Schafer:No, rubber playground flooring is not cheaper than with Tambor. Told you. In terms of upfront installation costs. That's Doug Googling, bro.

1:00:40Justin Andrews:I don't. Hey, hey, I'm just going to tell you this. I am now typing in exactly what South says. Exactly. You just churned down, dude. No, no, no. Scroll down.

1:00:50Adam Schafer:Scroll down. Okay, open that. Open that part right there. Tambor wood mulch, initial cost low. It's the most budget-friendly, often costing about$1.50. The problem is you have to keep replacing it. I don't think that's why they did it. I think it's because they thought it was safer to have kids fall on bouncing floor.

1:01:09Sal Di Stefano:I also want to look up. Yeah, the port in place was definitely more. I also am curious, Sal. We're looking from a retail perspective, too. Just because people are charging$6 to$10 doesn't mean that they're not getting it. If you're looking at cost. Yeah.

1:01:21Justin Andrews:I think you would. That doesn't mean that.

1:01:23Sal Di Stefano:Just because we're getting, that's the retail prices right now.

1:01:25Adam Schafer:I hope somebody knows this. But retail for sure is going to be more expensive. I would bet money. I'll bet you$50. that the reason why they use the rubber port and stuff or the rubber is because people requested quote unquote safer flooring. I think you're right. Not because it's, it's cheaper because Tambark is cheap as hell. Now, over time, I could see how the rubber stuff might be cheaper because you have to replace it like you do Tambark.

1:01:46Justin Andrews:Well, it's a feature schools like to highlight, like even my old elementary did that. And then they replaced the playgrounds and then as they replace it, they have the rubber coating everywhere. And it looks, it's the perception of it is definitely like, oh, it's safer this way.

1:02:00Adam Schafer:Yeah, see, there you go. Rubber playground flooring is used over Tambor primarily for superior safety, lower long-term maintenance, and increased durability. It provides better shock absorption to prevent injuries, does not rot or require annual replacement like wood mulch, and is accessibility friendly. Oh, because you could roll in with a wheelchair or something like that probably.

1:02:23Justin Andrews:I didn't even think about that.

1:02:24Adam Schafer:Yeah, but I think it's the whole selling it like, oh, look, timmy could fall down and not you know uh-huh plus we used to throw tambark you know what you know yeah it's funny i find that really interesting because you would think that

1:02:38Sal Di Stefano:stuff that is getting thrown away would be much cheaper tires are getting thrown away yeah you still gotta process it you still gotta process it and turn it into something else no you had to

1:02:49Adam Schafer:process the tambark that's it that was a tree before yeah but tambark is wood that is cheap and easy to process. It's not like nobody built anything off a tan bark. Like, what do you use a tan bark for? Yeah, but there's like just tires that just get thrown away. Yeah, but you got to process it, bro. That's why it's so expensive. Yeah. Process it and turn it in. I'm telling you, it's those whole like, we got to make things safer. Oh, by the way, saves water.

1:03:14Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. I mean, I can see that that's definitely the selling point. I mean, I'm sure that's how they closed everybody on it. I just feel like it seems like tires that would be given away.

1:03:23Adam Schafer:Not to mention, I wonder if the plastic playgrounds do the same thing now that I'm thinking about it. What? All the playgrounds are plastic. The slides, everything's plastic. Is that doing the same thing?

1:03:34Justin Andrews:Especially getting in the heat. Of course.

1:03:36Sal Di Stefano:Expressing the plastic slide that your kid slides down instead of the old metal one that used to burn you at 2 o 'clock in the afternoon. We got burned.

1:03:44Adam Schafer:We got burned. Hey, listen. We might have got burned, but our taints are large. We got really wide taints. We got big taints, dude. Big taint energy. Shout out to Metal Slides. Yeah. BTE. I got to talk about my ketone IQ regimen. It's three a day right now. You guys got to get in there.

1:04:02Sal Di Stefano:No. Okay, so I was going to tell you. Are you sold? So, yeah, no. What I like is that I can drink my normal caffeine drinks and then I can have the one that's non-caffeinated. Yeah. I still get that mental clarity sharpening. Yeah, yeah.

1:04:11Adam Schafer:So you're using it regularly?

1:04:12Sal Di Stefano:I do. Well, I wouldn't say regularly. I don't think I do anything as regularly as you do. Although my supplement regime has been -

1:04:18Adam Schafer:I saw you today pouring a bunch of poison. Yeah, no.

1:04:20Sal Di Stefano:Ever since that, I've been pretty good with that. I haven't made my ketone that consistent, but I make it when we podcast.

1:04:26Adam Schafer:Yeah, I do it first thing in the morning before our first episode. Then I do it at lunch before our second episode. And then I do a third one. You don't do this like a pre-workout? Before I jump. So I'm using, I'm about - No, I mean, I've tried it before pre-workout, but I like it for like cognitive.

1:04:43Sal Di Stefano:So I'll tell you how I'll use it. So we've now done two podcasts basically right now. And then we have a full day left of content shooting. i'll go i'll take one after this busy days i'm definitely yeah because after about three podcasts or say four or five hours of content whether it's podcasting or we're shooting out there that's where i sort of get mental fatigue yeah and so i'll i'll use it now because i've already drank my caffeine early and i'm fine right now but i know that we've got hours ahead of us

1:05:11Adam Schafer:you feel sharp yeah i feel sharp doug uh when does uh does this when this episode released We still have time before. Two days. Two days. In two days, Maps Push Pull Legs comes out. Push Pull Legs.

1:05:24Sal Di Stefano:Top five, Justin Cole. Crowd pleaser.

1:05:27Adam Schafer:Men's version, women's version.

1:05:28Justin Andrews:Yeah. I hope people prove me right. Yeah.

1:05:31Adam Schafer:Yeah, it'll be fun. And I'm excited about this one just because it's a fun program. People want it. So we did it.

1:05:36Sal Di Stefano:And that Wednesday, Cole will be coaching for it for the first three days. He'll get it for free. Yep.

1:05:42Adam Schafer:There's a new fatty acid that's making waves. It's called C15. So this isn't fish oil. This is a fatty acid that's found in dairy. But when you consume enough of it, you get incredible benefits. You get better cellular aging, or should I say slower cellular aging, mitochondrial health, better skin, reduced inflammation. This is the next breakthrough in fatty acid science. If you want to feel better, if you want to have healthier cells, better skin, better sleep, lower inflammation, try out Fatty15. Go to fatty15.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump and get 15 % off. Back to the show.

1:06:23Adam Schafer:Our first caller is Kristen from Oklahoma. Hi, Kristen. Hi.

1:06:28Justin Andrews:Thank you for having me on.

1:06:29Adam Schafer:Yeah. How can we help you?

1:06:31Justin Andrews:I'm just going to go ahead and get to my question. I clearly did not proofread before I sent it, but okay. I recently stopped working with a personal trainer. I was with her for about three years. I learned a lot, but it was a lot of pressure and stress, I kind of decided it was time to move on. Now I'm trying to navigate moving forward. I meal prep the four days I work. I still have some disordered eating habits, such as binging, mostly with sweets. So I did increase my calories to about 1900. I've considered micro dosing a GLP one to see if I could help combat the binge eating. Mostly sweets is my biggest issue.

1:07:03Justin Andrews:I'm currently about 140 pounds and I'm five, seven. I work as a nurse. I have a four and a five-year-old. I'm at the point now with my kids getting older that I can work out consistently. I typically allow 30 minutes a day working out. My brother created me an exercise plan that I shoot for for about four days a week. I do about a six-minute cardio circuit just for heart health. I hit about 8 to 10K steps a day. My current macros are 155 grams of protein, 175 grams of carbs, 64 grams of fat. I would like to gain muscle, but not sure if I'm getting enough time in the gym for that. I was looking into anabolic for my next program and have been in this program.

1:07:41Justin Andrews:My brother made me for about three months. I'm just looking for overall health at this point, maintaining and being able to gain strength to be the healthiest I can be. I feel like I would be leaps and bound ahead if it wasn't for the binge eating cycle.

1:07:53Adam Schafer:You're way under eating. Yeah. Let's pause. You're way, way under eating. But let's pause for a second, Kristen, because I'm going to sum this all up. Okay. You were with a trainer, but you stopped because of the pressure.

1:08:06Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:08:07Adam Schafer:uh you um meal prep workout uh but you you feel like you binge too much on sweets so you're considering a glp1 you want to get strong strong and be healthy yeah um so that's your main thing but then also you're not making progress or at least the kind of progress you think you want to so I need yeah let's get specific what do we want do we want health less pressure get leaner

1:08:41Justin Andrews:stronger which which one do we want so obviously I'm like any woman my husband rolls eyes but I want obviously the tone look but I've kind of realized going through all this process that if I want to have a more muscular look I obviously need gain muscle and I would have to probably gain some weight with that so i've kind of decided to shift my mindset and be okay with gaining some weight okay to get some muscle and then maybe do i mean nothing like not an aggressive cut because i don't want to i want to be able to eat with my family and you know good i'll be super restrictive

1:09:14Sal Di Stefano:okay you're already in an aggressive cut just so you know yeah and you going up to 1900 calories would be considered an aggressive cut for a 5, 7, 140-pound woman who does 8 ,000 to 10 ,000 steps and is training 3 to 4 days a week. That's a massive cut. Right now, Corinne, who I'm training right now, is 106 pounds eating 2 ,700 calories, only getting 8 ,000 steps into it. You need way, way more calories. Now, we work our way up to that. So it's not like I want you to all of a sudden eat 2 ,700 calories tomorrow. but the reason why part of one of the reasons why you're binging is because your body is telling you we need more fuel you're we need way and then and you feel like you're white knuckling it trying to be good and then what does it want it wants it wants the fastest source of carbohydrates and fuel as possible because you're depriving it okay so if we were in a more balanced well-fed diet it would also help out with the binging it would you'd so instead of going to something like a glp1 and crushing your appetite even more than where you're at.

1:10:18Sal Di Stefano:We need to do a proper reverse diet, focus on getting strong and building muscle, not weigh yourself because if you're already in that mindset of, I'm okay with a little, like, don't focus on the weight. Slowly focus on the strength in the gym and feeling good, and that's where our mindset should be and to get our calories significantly up. Like, I would want you to eventually get up to 2 ,700-plus calories to be able to come back down to say 2 ,200 calories. And that's an aggressive cut. And you lean out and you're more fed than you are now.

1:10:52Justin Andrews:Yeah, I obviously don't have any problem eating a lot of food or a lot of protein. My biggest fear was if I were to increase my calories, if I would still have those habits and then I would just be eating, I don't know how many calories, you know, at that point.

1:11:04Adam Schafer:No, no, but let's pause here for a second because Adam just gave you all the right answers. But I have a feeling you knew that.

1:11:12Justin Andrews:Yeah, I knew that's where it's going. I'm just scared to do it. I think.

1:11:15Adam Schafer:So we got to speak to that. So, cause I don't think you need the answers. I think you know the answers.

1:11:20Justin Andrews:I just, yeah. I mean, I just wanted some reassurance, I guess that to increase the calories that high, but I'm just scared that I'll be like, oh, there's the chocolate cake and I want to eat half of it. You know what I mean? And then I'm eating like 3 ,500 calories. Yeah.

1:11:32Adam Schafer:Let's talk about that. Cause you're like, I want to get stronger and build muscle, but I want to microdose with GLP one.

1:11:37Justin Andrews:Do you, I know it's like an oxymoron.

1:11:38Adam Schafer:Well, not just that, but do you see the, the, the, the conflict that's happening there? so let's speak to that for a second okay you want to build muscle because you know that's the right answer yes okay but but you're scared yeah because you feel like you're gonna go off the rails yes okay okay so i'm gonna i'm gonna help you here okay because you're probably not gonna go off the rails yeah you might a little bit at first because you might be and correct me if i'm wrong Kristen, but you might be the kind of person that keeps yourself in check with lots of pressure and shame.

1:12:15Justin Andrews:Probably. Yeah. Cause I feel guilty about it. And then I'm like, Oh, I'm not going to eat as much tomorrow. And then I just eat the same amount of food.

1:12:20Adam Schafer:And so that's been your MO for a little while. And so what happens is you're like, if I let go of that, what's going to happen? Yeah. Yeah. So I'll tell you what's going to happen. You might go off a little bit. You might test it a little bit, but then you're going to find that it's actually quite freeing. And what But part of the reason why you binge, there's the physiological reason, which is what Adam said, and we'll get there. But the other part of the reason why you binge is because if you live in that place where you're putting a lot of pressure, like you got kids, right? You're tyrannizing yourself.

1:12:51Adam Schafer:Okay. So, and your kids are young, I'm assuming.

1:12:54Justin Andrews:Yeah, they're four and five.

1:12:55Adam Schafer:Okay. But you've been around teenagers.

1:12:57Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:12:57Adam Schafer:Okay. And you're pretty young. Remember when you were a teenager? Yeah. What happens when mom and dad put so much pressure on you? What do you do at some point? Or what do you want to do at some point? You want to what? You want to rebel.

1:13:09Justin Andrews:Yes.

1:13:09Adam Schafer:Yeah. So what you're doing is you're rebelling against your own pressure. That's what the binge, that's part of the reason why you're binging is it's a release of pressure. It's like, oh God, I live under this tyranny all the time. Let me just let go for a second. And then you do, and then, oh, right back on the pressure. No, no.

1:13:25Justin Andrews:Yeah, that's truly how I feel. I'm like, oh, this is great. I'm just eating all this. And I was like, I know I'm going to regret this later. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

1:13:30Adam Schafer:Then the guilt sets in. That's right. So part of it is you're physiologically hungry. Yeah. And then the other part of it is you got to get out of that. You got to be okay with, yeah, you got to stop beating yourself up. You got to stop that. This relationship, if you keep it going, you're always going to be this way.

1:13:46Sal Di Stefano:Let me also tell you more back to what's happening too. So let's say, more to Sal's point, let's say I was coaching you. First thing I do is I move you up to 22, 2300 calories, and we're strength training three days a week. you're doing great you're feeling good feeling strong and then all of a sudden you have a day where you you hit all you do everything you eat everything normal and then all of a sudden you also eat a big bowl of ice cream too guess what's gonna happen pretty much nothing you're not gonna put a pound of fat on the next day you'll probably be holding some water so psychologically you'll look in the mirror and go oh my god i gave no you didn't you added 500 calories 500 calories is not a pound of fat it's not even a half a pound not even a quarter of a pound of fat what you'll probably do is end up fueling our strength training workout the next day and you're gonna feel strong and have a lot of energy and and we get right back on the horse and we keep going and we try versus oh i can't wait i did that and then the next day trying to restrict more or whatever like that or punish yourself like so yes that's and some of this this is where i think i feel like a lot of our clients uh that we work with this is the hardest it's like you get you know logically what you're supposed to do.

1:14:55Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Having somebody who's there who's kind of reminding you like, I'm just coaching you. It's okay. Yeah. And giving you the tools to handle it.

1:15:02Adam Schafer:If I were to bump your calories, the place I would bump it is fats. 64 is probably too low. Okay. Your protein's great. Carbs are great. I bet you if you went up to, you added 20 grams of fat, maybe a little carbs, get your calories up 200 calories. I bet you would feel physiologically better. And if you have a binge, here's what you do. okay if you have the binge uh or that moment or whatever after you're done this is what you say to yourself of course you did that you're under a lot of pressure yeah of course you did it's okay it's all right we'll try again okay and that's not letting yourself off the hook yeah it's not letting yourself off the hook what you're doing afterwards what you're typically probably doing is like you idiot that's it tomorrow we're gonna really clamp down that's what's causing more of them.

1:15:52Adam Schafer:I know. So, so you gotta, and I want you to say what I'm saying because it's not natural. You're going to feel like it's silly and awkward, but you literally say, uh, out loud by yourself, you can even write it down. That's another way you can do it. Be like, of course you did this. Yeah. A lot of pressure. You got kids, you got a job and I just beat you up all the time. And so of course you wanted to escape a little bit. I totally get it. We're just going to try again. You got to say that to yourself. Bump the calories. Do what I said. I think MAPS Anabolic will be a great program for you. Yeah.

1:16:24Adam Schafer:Okay. And I think you're going to get great results.

1:16:28Sal Di Stefano:Follow it the way it's laid out. Okay. More is not better. Okay. If you do anything else, walk. That's it. Yeah. You want to do more stuff. You want to be active. I'm all pro walking. That's good. That's it. Okay. Follow the program the way it's laid out.

1:16:42Adam Schafer:Okay. And then here's the other thing. I'll just ask you a couple questions before I give you this advice. how's your husband with all this does he does he tell you look good is he encouraging oh yeah and

1:16:50Justin Andrews:i i feel like i look great like i have no concerns about how i look it's i feel like a lot of it is mental like i read the dopamine nation i was like i have to figure this out like why am i doing this but he's super supportive he's like stop just enjoy it i'm like i'm just gonna feel guilty the

1:17:06Adam Schafer:next day so so because okay you got your husband you love him you trust them your father your children i want you to lean on him a little bit and then yeah and this is what you tell him hey honey uh i need your encouragement and if you feel like i need to rein things in i want you to gently talk to me about it because i'm not going to trust myself because i i don't i don't think

1:17:23Justin Andrews:i'm trustworthy with this for myself yeah and lean on him a little bit but but i'd go up in fat

1:17:29Adam Schafer:mad centabolic you're gonna be totally fine but okay and you think like 200 calories a week just

1:17:35Justin Andrews:increase yep yeah and see how i do oh you you could go higher than that but we'll start there

1:17:40Sal Di Stefano:yeah okay okay yeah do you do you know that we have coaches that do this too do you know that

1:17:45Justin Andrews:are you aware of that yeah okay i just i had a good coach but she doesn't have children and i feel like i was kind of like running in the ground and if it's going to take time away for my kids

1:17:54Adam Schafer:then i'm not doing it to be honest so yeah you don't need another uh christian training you you you need something different yeah yeah yeah well if you're open we have coaches and i have some that I think would work well with what you probably need. And if you want, I can have somebody reach out and call you.

1:18:12Justin Andrews:Yeah, I mean, I would love to talk to somebody any more support I could get.

1:18:15Sal Di Stefano:It's only a single call a month virtually. That's it.

1:18:19Justin Andrews:Oh, yeah, that's super low-key. I was doing like weekly check-ins.

1:18:22Sal Di Stefano:Oh, yeah, no, no, no, no. I was exhausted. You'll get plans sent to you. And their goal is to guide you. And then that once a week when you guys get on the phone, check up on how the month went, the adjustments. And so it's, yeah, no, we're, we really try and empower our clients to do this stuff. And we don't need to be talking to you every single week. You'll get stuff that you can open up and read and valuable to you, but there's not this like accountability. You need to do this every day type of deal.

1:18:48Adam Schafer:Wear yourself, measure yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

1:18:50Sal Di Stefano:So we'll have someone call you and they can tell you this, but that what Sal laid out for you and we'll send you maps and a ball. That's the plan. If you thought, if you find yourself wanting more guidance and then, and then get with one of the coaches, they'll take good care of you.

1:19:01Justin Andrews:Okay. Well, thank you guys so much.

1:19:03Adam Schafer:it was nice to meet you i enjoy your podcast all right thank you okay record common very very common yeah situation yeah yeah and uh you know self-tyranny oh yeah everybody does it everybody does it and when you do it for so long you're like if i don't do this what's gonna happen oh my god oh my god i'm gonna go in the other direction yeah uh when when the reality is the reason why you have these little breaks of whatever you want to call it discipline or is because you're trying to escape you're clamping down so yeah dude it's like i need to get away from this you know it's

1:19:33Sal Di Stefano:like a relief i mean five seven 140 pounds is good weight no she's fit dude yeah she is she if she if she just wants to lean tone you know what like she used build uh she needs to build muscle she ain't building no and she just went up to 1900 so that's what's telling me she was probably at 16 real low yeah yeah and and that much activity yeah i know and then that and then you're already doing the whole you know restricting on yourself and tyrannizing yourself and but What you're feeling is that your body needs it. It wants more.

1:20:02Adam Schafer:And the other part that we need to speak to is this GLP-1 situation where there are definitely situations where it's valuable. And then there's situations where I don't think it's appropriate. This is one of them. It's not appropriate. And it may give short-term success, but it is not going to solve the root issue.

1:20:20Sal Di Stefano:No, I mean, she could take a GLP-1 and drop down to 130 pounds and eat 1 ,100 calories a day. That's what it would do. if someone who's only eating 1900 takes a glp1 she'll be lucky to eat 1100 calories and she'll drop five to ten pounds but she'll lose almost all muscle it'll be terrible good yeah our next

1:20:37Adam Schafer:caller is adam from california what's up man how you doing what's happening hey thanks for having

1:20:41Justin Andrews:me on guys i i feel like i'm obligated to glaze you boys go go ahead brother go ahead I know you guys hear it all the time, but as somebody who has been in business a long time now, like I truly do believe like what you guys do is the highest form of entrepreneurship and really helping people solve like what are maybe the most serious problems. Right. And so just kudos to you, man. You deserve all your success. And, you know, I pray for nothing but success for you guys in the future as well. um and then PSA to anybody that's listening like you know these guys know what they're talking about I I was skeptical I went to uh I finally got to a point where I was like you know I'm just gonna prioritize protein I'm just gonna hit my 200 grams of protein every day I'm gonna see what that does and like literally every aspect of my life is better like dropping fat feeling I feel amazing.

1:21:43Justin Andrews:I usually, you know, I go to bed, I'm sore. I've been, I've been usually just after a long walk through my hilly neighborhood with the dogs and my legs are killing me. And I wake up every morning, like I've been on vacation for a week. Like I feel amazing. And so just appreciate you guys. My question's not so much about me. I feel like I'm doing great. And it's about my son, uh ethan he is gonna be 14 here in july um you know he's he i was an athlete he's an athlete my daughter's an athlete he focuses on baseball um and he's a very skilled player he's he's a late i was a late bloomer um developmentally um we think he's just started puberty like right now so this is actually the first year he's he's on a a pretty good travel uh program right now it's the first year baseball's been hard for him.

1:22:33Justin Andrews:Like we're facing kids that six, 12 inches taller than him. Uh, geez, on Sunday, we faced a 280 pound kid that was crazy. And, uh, his plan was cause he's a young eighth grader right now. His plan was to do a hold back year. And he's such a social guy that as we got closer to having to make that decision, he was, he was like, you know, I'm going to go to high school next year. I don't want to, I don't want to be away from my friends. And so we kind of turned our focus to, all right, man, you got to get more athletic. You got to get stronger and you kind of got to get after it. Right. And he was down to do that.

1:23:09Justin Andrews:And so let me tell you what we got him doing right now. We got him. He's 5 '4", 155 pounds. He's got some pudge on him, some baby fat and things like that, that he's working through. He definitely needs to get stronger, faster, leaner, more agile, just more athletic in general to be able to compete in high school next year. And he's getting after it. So right now we've got him at a, our target is 150 grams of protein a day. So that may be a little high. That may be, you know, right around the ballpark. He's doing a, you know, for speed, he's doing hill sprints a few days a week. He obviously practices all the time.

1:23:53And then for strength, I've got him focused,

1:23:57Justin Andrews:like trying to keep it simple. He's doing farmer carries, everything he's doing twice a week. Farmer carries, he's doing deadlifts. For chest, he's doing, you know, one day we're doing flat bench. The next chest workout, we're doing incline dumbbell press. I've got him doing front raises for shoulders. I do have him doing military press. The shoulder stuff we're doing like once a week because he throws so much for baseball. And then, yeah, I'm just, I'm looking for guidance from you. I would say that his I'm feeding him a lot of lean cuts right now. And so I am worried that he's underfeeding. He's probably between 1700 and 1900 calories every day.

1:24:42Justin Andrews:And I'm wondering if we should boost that up by giving him fattier cuts of meat primarily. And then, you know, my thought is because he's young, he's able to recover so quickly that as long as we keep the weight relatively light and focus on his form, that he should be able to crush volume. He should be recovering pretty quickly. But again, you know, I didn't start lifting until, you know, I started playing football in high school. It was a it was a different world. That was a ton of volume, a ton of, you know, just heavy lifting. My focus right now, one, is everything we do. I want to make sure it's safe.

1:25:18Justin Andrews:I don't want to cause any problems for him, of course. And then two, you know, I want to maximize, you know, his ability to get more athletic and be able to compete with confidence as he kind of reaches the next stage of his athletic career. So I want to hear you guys out. I know you guys are all athletes. Justin, I know you fellow college

1:25:43Adam Schafer:football player um would love to hear your perspectives that's really good so there's really good data now that we didn't have uh back in the day on uh young athletes and what uh contributes to their performance later on the most it's really really good data uh but before i talk about that is he enjoying all this stuff he is he's really getting into it man like his

1:26:06Justin Andrews:youtube algorithm now when i check it it's all fitness stuff it's all exercise stuff it's rad

1:26:12Adam Schafer:Because that's number one. Number one, he's so young. You want to make sure he's developing a good relationship with it. He likes it. Otherwise, you'll run into the scenario where the kid gets pushed, and then later on they're like, I don't want to do this anymore type of deal. The second thing, and this is the most important thing to focus on with a young athlete, especially one whose body is going to be changing rapidly, is body awareness and kinesthetic ability. More important than anything. because so the brain is extremely plastic at younger ages. So a good example of this is like learning new languages.

1:26:47Adam Schafer:Like if you and I learn a new language right now, no matter how well we learn it, we're always going to have an American accent no matter what. But you teach a kid four different languages when they're young, they'll be able to speak all four of them as adults fluently. And that's because the brain has an ability when you're younger that you essentially lose when you're older. It's this plasticity. And this also extends to body awareness and kinesthetic ability. So what you learn when you're younger with body awareness will last and improve your athletic performance later. So here's what the data shows.

1:27:21Adam Schafer:Let's say you got a kid that's really gifted at baseball. Okay. And let's say we could like duplicate that kid. And on one end, we take them and we just focus on baseball because they're good at it. And that's where we place all of our time and energy. and then they get to college and then they play at that level. Let's say on the other hand, we take this kid who loves baseball. He still plays baseball, but we also have him run, do gymnastics, do swimming, play golf, soccer. So he's just doing a lot of different things up until he's probably a sophomore in high school. Then he focuses on baseball.

1:27:53Adam Schafer:He's going to be better at baseball than the kid that focused all his time on baseball because of that general body awareness. So that's the most – it's even more important than getting him strong at a particular lift. It's more important than anything. So variety is the name of the game when it comes to your kid. Not getting him hurt, very, very important. As long as he loves it, it's great. Strength training is good for that. And his body on top of that is changing so rapidly that body awareness becomes even more important because let's say he's really good at throwing a baseball right now and then in three months he gains an inch in height, which could totally happen.

1:28:32Adam Schafer:his body's totally different now. Now his mechanics are off and it's going to be weird. It's like when you see a puppy grow real quick and they're kind of awkward.

1:28:39Justin Andrews:And we've seen that. We've seen that he's grown an inch in the last two months and you know, he, he does pitch and his control has suffered through that process. So that makes a lot of sense.

1:28:50Adam Schafer:So it's all about body awareness and variety. I love the carries. Uh, you know, the traditional exercise are good too, but have them do lots of, of different things and get used to his body. Body weight movements seem to be better at this. I love suspension trainer. So like what they call closed chain movements. So like bench press is great. Push-ups might be better. Overhead press is good. Shoulder, you know, handstand push-ups might be better. So you want to kind of look at that kind of stuff. Suspension trainer is great. Gymnastic style exercises are good. And kind of like these like full body type movements.

1:29:26Justin Andrews:Multi-planar type stuff for sure. and honestly, you know, going through this with that type of an age range for me, like exposing them at the compound lifts, it's got to be very minimal and hyper-focused. So, you know, their mechanics are everything with that. So, you know, like our 15 programs, I was thinking like performance 15, you know, just taking that sort of protocol, but then, you know, the days in between where he does his skill sessions and he's working on speed. One thing that's the, one of the most important skills of basically any athlete is to is speed speed is going to carry them so much further than than most attributes and you get speed by getting strong and then you know we apply acceleration to that uh and so to be able to have you know the ability of body control you know move in different planes you know get exposure to all those variables like sal's talking about it's like super important so you know but light doses of compound lifts uh to really build up that baseline strength is going to be really important but like a mistake i made and mistake a lot of athletes i've worked with make are they overdo that and they do really long sessions they do hour long to two hour long or they do it like four or five times a week uh i would reduce that down to like maybe two to three but like only two to three like compound lifts on those days two exercises on those days and that's it so it'd be like a 15 protocol but just like twice a week uh and then the rest of it is all just you know field work and speed work so that

1:31:00Sal Di Stefano:i mean that would be my suggestion yeah i'd i'd send over maps 15 performance to him uh and then you could use those first of all does he play does he is he in other sports too or is it just

1:31:08Justin Andrews:baseball he's into you know he was he played basketball and soccer and then you know once he was done with his 12 year old seasons he really just wanted to focus on baseball yeah so it was kind of his call we kind of push him to do other things and try to get him into flag he's going to be huge right so i'm like you know football is always there um but you know he just he loves

1:31:30Sal Di Stefano:baseball and that's what he wants to focus on we did a really cool interview years ago uh it was chad wesley smith yes you'd love it it's all about like about this is that we we go into deep the whole thing is about childhood like sports and sports development uh from beginning to end all the way to the professional level what the ideal kind of programming and volume and all that looks like really really good i'll have doug look up what episode number it is and i'll give it to you um awesome you'll you'll enjoy that conversation but the guys are right like um the the amount of like strength training like traditional deadlift squatting like movements like that is actually pretty minimal and you're doing your mindset is right like mechanics is like just teaching him good form and strength and if he gets a little bit stronger in it great but uh just and don't fool yourself because he's so young and can recover well doesn't mean we want to do a bunch more with him as far as strength training is concerned he'd be far better off doing speed agility type of work and multi-planar stuff and working on being quicker and picking up a basketball still and playing basketball like those things will serve him in baseball actually even more than hyper-focusing on that.

1:32:43Sal Di Stefano:And Chad Wesley Smith goes through this. You do start to hyper-focus, but not until later in his career. Early on, diversity wins. Diversity in sports, diversity in his movement patterns, and that's a lot of what you want going on. More of that, the better. We didn't touch this, but I think you're already alluding to the right thing with his diet. Definitely bump fattier meats. He for sure can handle more calories, and I would put, and that's an easy way to do it. Let them enjoy tri-tip and ribeyes and go that, you know, chicken thighs, go that direction for sure for more calories and higher fat.

1:33:22Sal Di Stefano:But yeah, 952 is the episode. So episode nine, wow, is that long ago? It's crazy.

1:33:27Justin Andrews:Yeah, definitely after like sophomore year, like really start like increasing that intensity and like adding that baseline foundation strength with compound lifts will be great.

1:33:36Adam Schafer:So three sports that are really good at kind of full body awareness and kinesthetic ability would be like wrestling. Brazilian jiu-jitsu is another one. Rock climbing is another one. And so, and now this wouldn't be where he would spend his time like really trying to be the best. It would be fun. So wrestling might be difficult because if he goes and wrestles in school, you know, wrestling coaches are pretty damn intense. So that's a different one. but if like jujitsu he might go to brazil jujitsu once or twice a week uh that's really good for

1:34:09Justin Andrews:body awareness rock and he's shown interest in that stuff i think i think that's uh that's a great idea and something that we can offer offer for him perfect so that would be great right

1:34:18Adam Schafer:because it's great for body awareness yeah it's athletic it's different than baseball you got to learn how to move and use your body differently it's very similar to wrestling a lot of hip power and rotation stuff too it's just really it's the body awareness dude that's everything and then and And then rock climbing is the other one. It's like, hey, you want to have fun? You want to try doing some rock climbing or whatever? But if he's interested in jiu-jitsu, I bet you, you know, I don't know how much practice he's doing with baseball, but like one or two days a week of jiu-jitsu would just make him a better athlete.

1:34:44Adam Schafer:Yeah. Awesome.

1:34:46Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. You're doing good, though, bro. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah. A lot of it. But we'll send over the - MAPS 15 performance. MAPS 15 performance. So you got that. Listen to that episode 952. 952. Yeah, 952 with Chad Wesley Smith. and then uh and then yeah i think literally like if you could get him in jiu-jitsu once or twice

1:35:03Justin Andrews:a week it'd be rad yep yeah awesome guys appreciate you so much man thanks guys thank you

1:35:10Adam Schafer:yep that was a long time ago that episode first of all when i talk about it makes perfect sense but i didn't think that yeah so when he said that to me it was like you know it's like one

1:35:21Justin Andrews:of those moments a light bulb goes off like of course well yeah of course that's the best thing It's funny. I just thought of him because I was kind of constructing a bit of a plan for some athletes, student athletes at my son's school. And, you know, Chad Wesley Smith actually got involved, I think, in his kid's school. He's like the head coach for their football team. And they're just crushing. Yeah, they're like breaking records and everything. And he implemented like his entire protocol and workouts.

1:35:48Sal Di Stefano:I was wondering what he's been up to. We haven't talked to him in a long time. Yeah, I mean, he still has juggernaut training, which is great. So he still does that? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I hadn't popped up in my feed in a long time. I wasn't sure if they were still doing it or what.

1:35:59Adam Schafer:It's so counterintuitive, right? You think, oh, my kid's gifted. I'm just going to focus all time on this one sport.

1:36:04Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:36:04Adam Schafer:And it's just not how the brain works.

1:36:06Sal Di Stefano:Well, and you hear examples of this, right? It's like you have Tiger Woods, who's three years old. And he's focused on it. And then he's focused his whole life on that, and he becomes one of the best golfers ever. So it seems logical, like, oh, of course. The more time I spend doing this, the better I'm going to be. but when he breaks it down, and this is where our trainer brain goes, like, of course.

1:36:30Adam Schafer:And also, studies are good because they're looking at large sample sizes, general performance, what seems to work best. Because obviously, Tiger Woods, Serena Williams and her sister, those are like phenoms.

1:36:43Justin Andrews:Yeah, I mean, Tiger Woods even had to change his entire swing. That's right. Because of the repetitive overuse injury.

1:36:49Sal Di Stefano:Well, and who knows what it like, because what we see right now in professional sports is what is this playing out? Like a classic example is Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes was a superstar baseball player and football player. And if you watch the way he can, he can contort his body and throw the ball like nobody before him. And so you're starting to see these kids that grew up understanding this philosophy. Wow, gives them an edge. And they have a total edge. And so it's evolving sports. But we talk about players like Tiger Woods, like Michael Jordan. This science hadn't came up yet. That's right.

1:37:25Sal Di Stefano:And so it was. Who knows how much better they are. Exactly. How much better would Michael Jordan have been or how much better would Tiger Woods have been if he actually diversified that younger, you know what I'm saying, but still kept playing golf, but diversified it more. Who knows? He might have even been in bed where he was.

1:37:41Justin Andrews:Our next caller is Brandon from Oregon.

1:37:43Sal Di Stefano:Brandon, what's up, dude?

1:37:44Justin Andrews:What's happening?

1:37:45Adam Schafer:Hey, guys. How's it going?

1:37:46Justin Andrews:Good.

1:37:46Adam Schafer:How can we help you?

1:37:49Justin Andrews:Well, I guess what I'll do is I'll probably just read my question that I sent in because if I don't, I'll either miss some details or I'll get long-winded and talk forever. So I sent in. I said, hey, guys, I'm looking for some guidance and clarification on my training and nutrition. uh i'm currently 34 years old six foot and i'm about 215 pounds i don't know my exact body weight or body fat percentage likely mid-20s but my goal is to get down around 15 percent for context i've been lifting since i was about 14 i've mostly followed the traditional body building um or bro split uh where i'm doing you know one muscle group per day five to six days a week.

1:38:35Justin Andrews:As I've gotten older, I've started to feel like this amount of volume might be too much. And mentally, I started to struggle dialing it in or dialing it back as I feel like I'm not doing enough on a daily basis. I worked with a virtual coach for about 18 months and made solid progress going from about 230 pounds down to 200. While I was improving my body composition, I was lifting a very high volume, six days a week, eight to nine exercises per session, usually four sets each lift. And I was doing 30 to 40 minutes of incline treadmill walking. I was eating around 2 ,400 calories a day, extremely high protein, about 280 grams of protein a day, 64 grams of fat, and 180 grams of carbs.

1:39:29Justin Andrews:after about a year i burnt out i struggled with adherence especially with nutrition at night i eventually fell off the plan i've always had difficulty sticking to strict nutrition and tend to look for instant results i start with body dysmorphia and being overly hard on myself which makes consistency challenging this has been my biggest hurdle for as long as i can remember i never give myself enough credit and i'm probably the most uh impatient person i know All this combined with an intense sweet tooth and bad habit of binge eating junk food in the evenings, especially ice cream, has made it incredibly hard for me to be where I'd like to be.

1:40:09Justin Andrews:I struggle with all or nothing mentality where I feel like I have to be perfect or I'm failing. So when I fall off a meal plan for even one meal or a day, I tend to derail completely. going back to my previous nutrition plan i've wondered if my calories were too low and not balanced well enough specifically my protein i've also questioned whether under eating for my training volume contributed to burnout and nighttime overeating or if this is more of a mental thing um my mind tells me that it's a mental thing because it tends to be my sweet tooth that gets me in trouble in the evenings right now i'm coming off of a hernia repair, which has put me out of lifting for about a month, which I do feel like maybe has given me an opportunity to reset and rebuild smarter.

1:41:05Justin Andrews:Looking ahead, I'm hoping to join my local police department, hopefully where I'll soon be working 12-hour shifts. That'll make gym sessions difficult, so I'd like to transition to a more sustainable plan, ideally lifting four days a week with a good balance of strength training and mobility. In the past, I've really enjoyed lifting heavy, especially squats, deadlifts, and bench. However, my lack of recovery and mobility, I believe, has endured my progress and led to some persistent tightness and discomfort throughout my body. I truly believe that was because I didn't and still don't do much mobility work in my routine.

1:41:42Justin Andrews:So my main question is, while I do focus mostly on whole foods and hitting a protein target, I'd like to know what you guys recommend my caloric intake be regarding my training volume or an appropriate training volume, I should say. And I have not, I mean, I've listened to you guys for about six months, maybe a little more than that, and I've binged a ton of episodes. I've heard all about all your guys' maps program, but I have not actually purchased one yet because I was like, I don't know exactly which program would be ideal for me specifically. So I was hoping maybe some guidance on that, um, something that maybe balances strength and mobility, uh, recovery and just, you know, long-term sustainability for me.

1:42:32Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Let's, uh, let's talk a little bit first about, uh, your 280 grams of protein and only 60 grams of fat. you must be eating tilapia or tuna and chicken breasts and ground lean turkey. Is that the diet or what? Pretty much.

1:42:49Justin Andrews:And I think that that's part of the reason why I struggled to adhere to it after a while. Of course. Of course. Boring, bland. Yes. And I was like, I tried to spice it up, but it's hard to do that.

1:43:01Sal Di Stefano:Bro, chicken thighs. Have some chicken thighs. Have some rib eyes. Enjoy a tri-tip every now and then. Yeah.

1:43:08Adam Schafer:Your protein would be better if you brought it down to like 230, added 50 grams of carbs, and then added like 30 grams of fat. Your calories need to be up higher too. You should be up to like 27, 2800. Your intuition is on point, by the way. Everything that you're feeling is because you've been overtrained and underfed. And that includes your lack of mobility. It's not like you need to do more. It's your body stiff and overtrained. Yeah. So training-wise, very easy. MAPS and a bulk would be a great place to go. Bump your calories. Your protein's really high. It doesn't need to be that high. 220 grams, 230 grams would be plenty.

1:43:46Justin Andrews:Yeah, I've since dropped it since I was that high.

1:43:49Sal Di Stefano:If you just switch the meats out to the higher-fat meats, it'll take care of both. If you literally get rid of the ground turkey bullshit and the chicken breast and switch for chicken thighs and ribeyes or ground beef, it'll bump the calories and it'll lower the protein and increase the fats.

1:44:06Adam Schafer:it's so rare that i find a guy your size who can do well on anything less than 80 grams of fat it just doesn't work dude it feels like crap and it causes binging yeah well and i i i can't say

1:44:18Justin Andrews:that i've felt great throughout the entire i mean there was days and weeks even where i'm like i feel like i'm just dragging and i was like i don't know if that's overall volume in the gym i'm just overtrained or underfed or a combination of both. Right, yeah. And then the more I listen to you guys, I'm like, man, it's got to be a combination of both.

1:44:38Adam Schafer:Bro, you'll feel so different in like two weeks. If you bump your calories and your fats, do MAPS and Ebola. That's your strength training. Three days a week. That's it. Nothing else. If you want to walk, if you want to do mobility in between, then go for it. And that's it. And your body composition is going to change.

1:44:57Sal Di Stefano:And be patient because going through that training, your body has been used to getting beat up with that much volume and underfed that. So it'll take a second for you to kind of recalibrate. So I always tell somebody when I switch this, it's like, if you trust us, trust the process. But that is the plan. The plan is a MAPS anabolic three-day-a-week program. A great program to follow up that would be performance. Yes. It will address some of your mobility stuff that you're talking about.

1:45:21Adam Schafer:It'll be perfect for Police Academy, too.

1:45:22Sal Di Stefano:So great. It goes MAPS anabolic. They go to MAPS performance right after that. um and then and then the calorie literally the way like i wouldn't even overthink the calories to be honest with you it would literally be cut out all this extra lean meat and just switch it out for higher fat meats and it'll take care of bumping your calories and take care of your healthier fats and you'll be more satiated and you'll feel better your testosterone will probably

1:45:45Justin Andrews:go up too yeah all those things like that funny you brought that up so i uh i just had my

1:45:51Adam Schafer:testosterone my total t was down to 290 yeah yeah low fat that's normal when you're underfed over trained not enough fat uh and i bet your sleep's probably crappy too because it's hard to sleep uh well um when you're underfed and over trained it's probably so uh so yeah your testosterone will will go way up uh just from doing those things yeah i mean that so that like the things

1:46:16Sal Di Stefano:that i'm like if i'm coaching you through this process because it will take a time for your body to recalibrate. It's like, how's your sleep? How's your libido? How's your recovery? And those are our three first markers and then strength, right? So those are the four things that we're kind of like talking about. I'm not really tripping about weight. I'm not even really hyper focusing on calories. It's like, I'm switching out all those lean meats to higher fat meats, letting you enjoy yourself and be fed when you want. And when you're, if you're hungry, go eat, but just make good choices. Eat to, you know, go eat another serving of the ribeye and rice or whatever like that.

1:46:47Sal Di Stefano:That's your body probably telling you it needs more fuel because it's trying to build and trying to build strength. But those are the things that we're looking at. We're like, how's libido? How's energy? How's recovery? How's strength in a gym? Let those be your guide. Once you start checking off all those saying, yeah, that feels good. Yeah, that feels good. Yeah, that feels... Then comes the composition. Then all of a sudden, muscle starts packing on, waistline starts coming in. But focus on those four as your guiding principles of what you need to be focused on. And then the other shit follows, right?

1:47:17Adam Schafer:behind that if i just again just for the testosterone because you're probably like what the heck man you know that's a scary thing if i were to give a man three steps to crush his testosterone here's what it would look like over trained under eat too low fat a guaranteed to destroy your testosterone yeah so you're hitting everything on the head like i don't sleep all that

1:47:38Justin Andrews:well i mean some days i go you know i'll go a week i'm doing okay um i track it and it's usually high 70s low 80s so it's like it's not awful but it's not optimal i wake up every night like at two o 'clock on the dot and i'm just awake for like an hour yeah stress dude yeah it's too much too much too

1:47:56Adam Schafer:much stress on the body with the exercise not enough eating and not enough fats your body's hurting yeah you're gonna here's what you'll notice right out the gates uh more energy better sleep and you're stronger and recovery and recovery and then what adam's saying trust and then stick with it because then you'll start to see the strength gains and then you'll start to see the body composition change which takes a little longer yeah okay okay once all four of

1:48:18Sal Di Stefano:those are in line because you're doing all those things then you'll see you'll be good dude yeah then it's then we'll be rocking and rolling but just trust the process it is not a calorie thing dude like obviously if you go and eat like an asshole like i say and you start binging 4 000 calories that's not going to serve us but if you if you're hungry and you eat and it's whole natural it's whole natural foods you're good and i don't care if it's a fattier cut of meat with a good carbohydrate, rice, potato, sweet potato, stuff like that, go for it. Eat it. Eat it because you're hungry. That means your body is.

1:48:48Sal Di Stefano:It's rebound. It's recovering. It's rebuilding. It's wanting to build muscle. You'll be fine, but just trust that process.

1:48:55Justin Andrews:Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'll do that.

1:48:56Sal Di Stefano:We'll send over a MAPS anabolic, and then, like I said, after anabolic, follow it up with performance.

1:49:01Justin Andrews:Okay, perfect, guys. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time and everything you guys do. It's great.

1:49:07Adam Schafer:Thank you. You got it, man. Take it easy, Brandon. All right. I swear to God, bro, the ultra-low fat sources of protein. I knew it. It sounds like 280 grams with the waist. He's eating all tilapia, you think? That's boiled chicken breast, dude.

1:49:22Sal Di Stefano:That is chicken breast, extra lean ground turkey, tilapia.

1:49:27Adam Schafer:Yeah, and I'm going to say this right now. Those ultra-lean, super-lean cuts of meat, that should not be not even close to a predominant source of your animal sources of protein. Unless you're a competitor and you're 12 weeks out and you're measuring everything, if that's usually what you eat for your protein, your life sucks, you feel like crap, you're not able to recover, your hormones are probably off. Just eat the meat. Now I'm not talking about going 60 % ground beef or eating sausages all the time. But like chicken thighs, regular ground beef, tri-tip. Rib eye. Occasional ripe. That sort of fat.

1:50:10Adam Schafer:Yeah, dude. You need it. It's essential.

1:50:11Justin Andrews:Our next caller is Farron from Ontario. Hi, Farron. How you doing, Farron? Hello. Hi. How are you guys? Good. How can we help you? Good. Sorry, I'm sitting on the floor because I was having issues using my computer, so I'm on my phone. That's all right. That works. um I'm gonna read my email um I did shorten it a little bit just for sake of brevity but um I think it has all the information that you'll need so uh hello my name is Farron I'm a 38 year old stay-at-home mom I have two little boys and um over the past three years I've lost more than 30 pounds through cardio macro tracking and then eventually strength training along the way I I also fell into a cycle of overtraining, restriction, and body dysmorphia.

1:51:03Justin Andrews:But after working with a coach to rebuild a healthier relationship with food and training, I'm now in a much better place, but I'm unsure how to move forward with my goals. So a little bit of background. I started my fitness journey in 2023 when I bought a popular spin bike and began doing classes at home every day. My youngest son was utterly confused and kept asking why I was riding a bike and not going anywhere. And he was right because I lost 15 pounds and then stopped going anywhere. I plateaued really quickly. That's when I found the carbon diet coach. I started tracking macros, dialed in on calories, started eating enough protein, and then the weight began to drop off again.

1:51:46Justin Andrews:So at that time, I also started strength training and I gradually built up a home gym. And by the fall of 2024, I had reached my lowest weight of 122 pounds and 19 % body fat. So I looked slim, but I didn't have the physique I wanted. So I kept pushing harder, strength training, five days a week, doing cardio almost every day, and then fell into just a cycle of dysmorphia and restricting and binging. I felt awful and I knew something needed to change. So I'd been listening to you guys for a little while and I decided to hire a coach. She helped me rebuild balance. She increased my calories from 1800 to 2400, reduced my training to three days a week and told me I could do cardio, but it was optional, not mandatory.

1:52:33Justin Andrews:So my weight went up and stabilized at 134 pounds and I felt really great. So at my request, we ran an eight week cut last fall so I could practice doing it in a more sustainable way. I reached 127 pounds, but I felt really crummy and I was really hungry. So I returned to maintenance and that's where I've been ever since. So now my weight has stayed the same. I'm probably about 22 % body fat, 2200 calories a day, 130 to 140 grams of protein, three or four strength days. I do one lower, one upper and two full body days. I use the second full body day as optional so I don't force myself to do it but I do complete it most of the time and I train at home with a home gym I homeschool my kids and I run our household so I'm pretty active during the day but my main struggle now is my lower body so my upper body slims out really easily and then I carry most of my body fat around my hips and glutes and I have cellulite, which I hate.

1:53:38Justin Andrews:Even at my lowest body weight, I still had cellulite. So my coach explained that achieving the look I wanted would require a level of restriction that probably wasn't going to be sustainable for me long term. And I understand that, but at the same time, I do want to continue to improve my physique. So my question for you guys is, is it realistic for me to continue improving my lower body composition while eating maintenance? Or would pursuing this goal likely require a deficit that risks pushing me back towards unhealthy habits? How can I focus on building more muscle in my lower body through adjusting my training structure?

1:54:18Justin Andrews:Or is this mostly a matter of genetics and just false expectations for women? The biggest win for me over the last year has been rebuilding a healthier relationship with food and training. so protecting that progress is really important to me um thank you for everything you do i've learned a lot from your show and i would really value your perspective first of all uh you look

1:54:42Sal Di Stefano:great you're doing a great job you look great and you're doing a great job that's first and foremost um i'm curious to what do you know what your squat deadlift numbers are how strong how strong was your lower body? Tell me. Yeah.

1:54:59Justin Andrews:So I have been gradually building my home gym. Um, I just got the courage to buy a barbell and a squat stand for myself. So I get that at home. Um, yesterday I did my first round. I squatted 120 pounds for eight reps. So I'd been doing that. And then like, I'm still using the program that my, my coach had me on. Um, so I'm doing, uh, like eight, eight and then 12. So I can do one 10 or 12.

1:55:36Adam Schafer:Farron, you're, uh, you're doing great. Yeah. And your trainer was, your coach did a good job. It's actually rare that I hear someone on here tell me about a coach and I think they did well. I think your coach did a really good job with you. I think you're doing, you're doing great and you need to cut yourself some slack. I think you're too hard on yourself. yeah i know but no yeah no but you're doing really well body fat percentage 20 22 i'm gonna tell you right now you're gonna feel your best and be your healthiest between 22 to 25 for the rest of your life that's where you're gonna want to sit you're at the right body fat

1:56:13Sal Di Stefano:percentage i think you'll obtain the look when we build more muscle in your legs and i think that you're just now starting squatting.

1:56:21Adam Schafer:This is your first time barbell squatting?

1:56:22Sal Di Stefano:A year from now, your lower body is going to look radically different after squatting and deadlifting for a year.

1:56:29Adam Schafer:You're fine.

1:56:30Sal Di Stefano:You could get away with bumping your calories about 200 more calories, just so you know. I think it would be better. So I would feed you a little bit more, and I would try and get strong in the squat and the deadlift. Like, let's keep going. And watch what your lower body ends up shaping up. And honestly, I want your body fat percentage about where it's at. I don't really want to get, but it'll look different when we put five to 10 pounds of muscle on that body. That's right. It's going to look way different. That's right. So I think the look that you're trying to achieve in the lower body will come from squatting and deadlifting for the next year and getting strong there and eating 200 more calories and kind of hovering where you're at, doing what you're doing.

1:57:11Adam Schafer:Your calories probably be about 24 to 2 ,500 calories through this process and just get strong. And I think four days a week of strength training is okay. You're better off doing three.

1:57:21Justin Andrews:Okay. So, um, that's, I, I'm not, I don't want to get leaner in a sense that I want to like lose weight or even lose body fat. I'm, I'm happy the way I am in that sense. I would just like more muscular. That's right.

1:57:38Sal Di Stefano:I heard that. I heard that. I got that from the message. That's the, that's what I'm telling you. That's the prescription.

1:57:43Adam Schafer:Bump your calories. uh do you know how many grams of uh i'm assuming you're hitting get you there i'm assuming you're

1:57:48Justin Andrews:hitting good protein do you know what your fats are at uh yeah so i i have i've religiously track which is another thing that my coach was getting me off of so i have done times without tracking but i feel more comfortable tracking um my proteins yeah 130 to 140 my fats are between 70 and 80 and

1:58:08Adam Schafer:then the rest are carbs you had a good coach farron yeah it's pretty rare i hear about a good

1:58:13Justin Andrews:a coach where's the coach where's the coach from uh so she's now she works for prime revival um but at the time i actually found her through um searching on spotify for a podcast on how to stop tracking macros okay going crazy with it and i just started listening to her podcast and then i um i added her on instagram and and she reached out to me and said hey how can i help you and it It was just a beautiful kind of relationship that we built. She got me into a really good place. Yeah, she's great.

1:58:48Adam Schafer:If you want to reach back out to her for a little short stint, probably be good. But bump your calories to 2 ,400, 2 ,500, and let's get you strong. The fact that you just started barbell training, that's going to unlock a lot of gains for you. The next two years, you're going to see consistent progress

1:59:06Sal Di Stefano:and change in your lower body. Just from getting stronger. Just from that.

1:59:09Adam Schafer:I'm going to send you MAPS Anabolic. That's the program I want you to follow. It's three days a week. It's three days a week. Do that.

1:59:15Justin Andrews:Yeah, that was my question because I'd like to just maintain my upper body, but I guess I'm a little bit, I don't want to overtrain in volume if I want my focus to be on my lower body. Well, let's do this. Muscle mommy.

1:59:30Adam Schafer:I'll give you muscle mommy. It's a little more, it's more lower body focused. Very similar to MAPS Anabolic. Follow that program. Bump your calories two to 300. Don't drop them down. and let yourself build. Build into the look that you want. Don't try to cut into the look that you want.

1:59:47Justin Andrews:Yeah, no, I'm done with that. It doesn't make me feel very good, and it just gets me back into a bad place.

1:59:54Sal Di Stefano:And listen to your body. There's a good chance that when you start really hitting strength, your appetite will go up. So don't fight that. If you get hungry, eat, but go eat a good balanced meal go have some steak and rice or whatever your favorite meat and rice or yam or sweet potato is go have a balanced meal uh whatever whatever that is like feed it if if because that that's what i'm like what i'm listening for if i'm coaching you is as we're going through this program you you're telling me like wow you're feeling strong and you're like adam i'm getting hungry and i'm like yes feed that then we'll go up again so if you're not then you'll be fine with a 200 calorie bump.

2:00:33Sal Di Stefano:But even at 2 ,400 calories, if you start getting hungry from lifting this way, that's a good sign. That means you're trying to build muscle.

2:00:41Justin Andrews:Okay. So is this something that I should focus on for the next, well, I guess forever?

2:00:48Sal Di Stefano:Well, at least the next three months because the program's three months long. So follow that, the way it's laid out and with the advice we're giving with calories and just let the program do the work.

2:00:59Adam Schafer:And I'll tell you this, Farron, And if you just started barbell training, if you just focused on, you know, smart training and getting stronger for the next two years, that's the best focus. It would be the best. For the next two years, just try to get stronger. Yeah. Be smart about it. You know, don't hurt yourself, but just try to get stronger. Feed yourself to do so, and you'll get the look that you're looking for.

2:01:21Justin Andrews:Okay.

2:01:22Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. You got a really cool year ahead of you because you had a good coaching that set you up well. You're in a good place right now. That program is going to be incredible for you. And just like Sal said, just work on getting strong.

2:01:37Adam Schafer:You want to get back on here after you're finished with Muscle Mommy? Yeah, I'd love to hear where you're at three months.

2:01:42Justin Andrews:Yeah, that would be really cool.

2:01:44Sal Di Stefano:Okay, cool. We're going to send it to you and then reach back out and then we'll do a follow-up with you.

2:01:50Justin Andrews:Okay, perfect. So Muscle Mommy is good. So at home, I have dumbbells, 5 to 50 pounds. I have a squat stand and barbell. And I have a cable tower too, which I bought myself. You're good.

2:02:02Sal Di Stefano:You got everything you need. You're covered. Yep.

2:02:04Justin Andrews:Okay. Okay. And no, so I've stopped doing cardio. I just don't.

2:02:09Sal Di Stefano:That's fine. That's fine. Walk. If you want to do anything else, walk. But follow the program the way it's laid out. Any other activity, walking. Yep.

2:02:17Justin Andrews:Just walking. Okay. Well, when it's negative 15 here, it's like the seven years of winter that won't end. So, okay. Okay. Thank you so much. This has been, I've been wanting to call in and talk to you guys for a few weeks and months probably. And I finally mustered up the courage to do it. And you've given me the reassurance that I hear you say all the time, but it's really nice to hear it directly from you guys and to get positive feedback as well. Awesome.

2:02:47Adam Schafer:you're doing great we'll see you in three months yeah can't wait keep it going yeah for sure thank you so much all right veron hey i'm that never happens where somebody talks about their i'm almost always like this is gonna suck yeah their coach did a great job well listen to how

2:03:02Sal Di Stefano:she found her yeah yeah yeah that even that that podcast episode is not a that's not a calm that's a that's a a a obviously a coach has been coaching for a long time to even have a podcast episode

2:03:14Justin Andrews:titled how to stop tracking macros totally you know send her an email i'd love to get the name

2:03:20Adam Schafer:of the podcast and find out who this who this uh trainer is that's great yeah no i definitely

2:03:25Sal Di Stefano:may well come we'll steal her don't work that's what i was thinking yeah yeah for sure yeah um

2:03:31Adam Schafer:that's awesome yep look if you like the show come find us on instagram mind pump media thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your

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2:04:36Justin Andrews:We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.