2834: 5 Fitness Influencers Worth Following (And Why Most of Everyone Else is Lying to You)

15:14Adam Schafer:He is a great coach. He's also a coach of coaches. So it's good for trainers to follow Jordan. And he has a community, I think, of trainers, right, that he works with. Yeah, his inner circle. And he does a great job of communicating, you know, complicated stuff into very simple terms. Again, that's a theme that you're going to see with all these guys. He's also a great guy. And he's a very hardworking, very honest, very hardworking trainer. Probably one of the hardest people working trainers that I've met in this.

15:44Sal Di Stefano:Also, I put him in that category with Ben Bruno to a very evolved with like he's he's been super, you know, ripped and strong as shit. Like he's he's done the thing like he's done crazy feats, but he doesn't live in that space. Like he cares more about being a father and healthy and balanced and helping people and, you know, enjoying life and the nice thing. And so I think that does a really good job of communicating overall health and fitness and cutting through a lot of the bullshit that's out there. And also well-read, too. He knows his studies. He knows the science. He's very aware of that.

16:21Sal Di Stefano:But then communicates fitness in a very simple way that the average person can adopt it and be consistent with it.

16:26Adam Schafer:And then we got Don. Don Saladino. Great guy. He's got such a great attitude of service. This is what got him initially. He's also a great trainer, of course. but what got him so popular in the celebrity world is that they felt comfortable with him because it didn't look like he was looking for anything back from them but also communicates fitness so well so accurately in such applicable ways appropriate ways that most people could take from also just a great guy when you meet him also a very hard working guy but just again deserves to be on this list

17:01Sal Di Stefano:maybe the most experience out of everybody on the list of training people, him and Joe? Joe's got to be. Joe, for sure, yeah. Yeah, Don's up there. I mean, I don't know, though. How long has Don been doing it? Don still trains a lot of clients. Oh, yeah. Does Joe still train the volume of clients that Don does? That's a good question. That's why I think... Because Joe's been doing it a little bit longer, right? But I don't think Joe trains as many one-on-one clients.

17:30Adam Schafer:I think it's not his main business.

17:31Sal Di Stefano:No, but Don still does. us don still trains a lot of clients one-on-one and so he arguably maybe the most hours of one-on-one

17:43Adam Schafer:with people that's tough joe's been doing it for a long time i know he's i mean he's been training people since the 90s has been is joe and uh so and don is when did don start probably is he our age or is he younger don't know it's don's already older don's older he looks good that guy or he's

18:02Sal Di Stefano:He's your age. He's older than me.

18:04Adam Schafer:He might have started in the 90s as well. It's a good point. Yeah, yeah. You're right. They're probably both up there.

18:09Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. I mean, regardless of who's a little more or less, my point is that you're talking about two of the most experienced one-on-one coaches. I would say Joe a little heavier and more experienced in the sports performance world. Yeah, for sure. Don a little more experienced in the average person. And so I think depending on your cup of tea, I mean, all five are must-follows. If you don't follow them, you have to be following them. I think their content, the information they provide.

18:40Adam Schafer:It's real important, too. I mean, one of the reasons why fitness influencers are so terrible for the most part, besides the fact that the information they often communicate is either wrong or not needed to be communicated. So sometimes we get a fitness influencer who communicates good information, a study, but they're communicating something that's just going to confuse people and misdirect people. And so they just don't have the experience to know, like, this isn't something I should sell because it actually doesn't matter. In fact, all it's going to do is turn people away. But the other reason is that fitness is so body obsessed.

19:14Adam Schafer:it's so obsessive about how you look uh and it's kind of got this unhealthy uh underpinning uh that following even people with good information who who sell things in that way can kind of make things not good uh and so the fitness space in general and social media can be that way i

19:34Sal Di Stefano:didn't even follow the right people uh then it's very positive i didn't think about that either that is common with all five of these guys too. None of them use their physique to sell.

19:44Adam Schafer:Not their physique. No. Brett will show his women that he trains, but that's what he does. Yeah, but it's him in his jorts and teacher games.

19:52Sal Di Stefano:He's not what I'm saying. I mean, I think he's - He's got a niche. Yeah, I think when he hit a certain milestone age, I think he presented like this is where he's at his age. You know, one thing I like about Brett,

20:02Adam Schafer:because he'll have the booty model stuff on his, because that's what he trains. He trains a lot of these women that compete, but it's he's always showing how strong they are he's always showing like the traditional strength right so he puts a like a good positive uh point with it because he knows how to train

20:19Justin Andrews:breaking down the exercises that's right being very specific with it that's right yeah yeah

20:23Adam Schafer:that's right but the point you made adam i think is so i didn't even think of that like they were all training people for a while first before first yeah they were all that's what they did This was their profession. They weren't fitness influencers. They're trainers. No. They just so happened to come along with social media. They didn't name any YouTube stars.

20:41Sal Di Stefano:I think that's got to be one of the hardest things for the younger. If you're younger than, say, 40, so 35 and younger, and you find yourself looking for content or for good people on Instagram, to be able to discern between, you know, were these people good before Instagram came out? Yeah. Did they get good, not because they're good at making, because what makes you good on Instagram is not necessarily what makes you a good coach. 100%. You can be very good on Instagram and be a horrible coach. Obvious. But if you were a great coach first, and then you happen to be a decent or famous on Instagram, some of them aren't even that.

21:19Sal Di Stefano:I'm trying to think who were the, what's, Doug, can you pull up the following on everybody right now? I know Syatt, I believe Syatt's over a million. I don't think Ben is over a million. I don't know if Brett is tell me what the following is on all of them I'm curious to where they're all out who's got the lowest following it'd be interesting because we were just arguing that Joe we were arguing that Joe and Don have the most experience

21:40Adam Schafer:Joe DeFranco 184 ,000 followers okay so not crazy no not at all Brett's probably got a huge following Don Saladino let's see he's at 428 ,000 oh yeah so he's not at a million Brett 1.7 so he's got a huge one Ben Bruno

21:56Sal Di Stefano:And the reason why Brett is because he's got a lot of...

21:59Adam Schafer:So Ben Bruin, half a million, so 500 ,000. Yeah. So let's see, Jordan.

22:04Sal Di Stefano:Jordan's over a million, I think. Is he? Jordan's a little higher. He's the best one out of social media. Oh, yeah. Where's he at?

22:11Adam Schafer:I can't even find him. Oh, there he is. 1.1. So Brett, a little bit more.

22:15Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

22:16Adam Schafer:And then what's Don at?

22:17Sal Di Stefano:I think Don's the lowest. Is he? Oh, no, he's not. 428, you said? Yeah, 428. And what was Joe? Joe was only 187th. Wow. How funny is that? We're giving probably Joe some of the most flowers. And Joe is, I mean.

22:30Justin Andrews:He's been in the game the longest out of all of them for sure.

22:33Adam Schafer:Yeah, yeah. But I mean, they're all good. They all do a great job. And it's funny too because we'll meet people and we'll talk with them. And, you know, when you have a lot of experience as a coach, you can hear it when someone else starts to talk and answer questions. You go, okay, this person. I remember Brett Contreras. We first had him on the podcast. I didn't know a ton about him except for what he was known for. And we started talking right out the gate. He's a science guy, right? But right out the gates as he's talking, I'm like, oh, he's trained a lot of people. Oh, you know why?

23:03Sal Di Stefano:I remember that conversation. Every time we challenge him or ask him a question that we were trying to see where he stands, he always started it with depends. It depends. Yeah, there was always nuance to the answer. And I think that's what all these guys do such a good job is they understand that, you know, there's an exception to almost every rule. And by the way, I know someone will do this whenever we talk about people we really like or something like that. If you sift through. You guys should do this. Well, no, they'll sift through their content and find something that we don't say exactly the same or we don't say it.

23:37Sal Di Stefano:It's like you're going to find amongst even all five of these that some of them might communicate something else a little different. It doesn't make one guy right or wrong. But I'd say about 99 % of all of our fitness philosophy is aligned. Well, what's true is true. Yeah, exactly. I think there might be some different strategies that each of us have because of our backgrounds. But for the most part, I think, agree with almost everything that guys talk about.

24:06Adam Schafer:All right, I'm going to talk about creatine. I know we talk about them all the time. Oh, did you get this thing I sent over to you? Did you find the study on it? So I found the study. it's not a public I can't pull up the actual study but I found others like it that support it but check out this study this was a 2023 randomized control pilot study where women with major depressive disorder so these were women with depressive disorder they were given and they had anxiety as well so they had this major depressive disorder and they also had anxiety and they gave them 5 grams of creatine a day that's it normal serving not the 15 grams that you see in some of these studies for brain health five grams of creatine a day within the first week there was a 50 decrease in anxiety that's crazy uh some with some sources claiming up to 95 by the end of the study here's the deal anxiety is a is is rough

24:59Sal Di Stefano:why so would that why would creatine make that at a five gram dose make that much of a difference on anxiety and depression.

25:08Adam Schafer:If your depression and anxiety is a result of poor energy production.

25:14Justin Andrews:Energy in your brain, right?

25:15Adam Schafer:That's right. Or just in your body overall, right? If it's a product of poor energy metabolism or just not being able to create enough energy for whatever reason, then increasing ATP would make you feel a lot better. Definitely. And anxiety can be that. Anxiety can do that. You can get anxiety from nutrient deficiencies as well. So you'll see sometimes people vitamin D deficiency, but creatine, that's not the only study by the way. In 2012, there was a double blind, uh, uh, study with 52 women again with made, uh, with this depressive disorder, adding creatine to their SSRI, uh, led to faster and greater reduction in depression compared to just the SSRI.

25:58Adam Schafer:So creatine in combination with the SSRI was like better, much better, much faster reduction in depression. There was another study with a hundred adults with depression, five grams of creatine a day plus cognitive behavioral therapy reduced depression scores more than just the cognitive behavioral therapy by itself. There's meta analysis that are done on this that discuss its potential as an adjuvant, excuse me, adjunctive benefits for depression. So in combination with other therapies, it's a good idea it's good for you what's great about this is then I can't

26:34Sal Di Stefano:imagine then what the result would be for someone who's battling anxiety and depression if they and they didn't take creatine they all of a sudden started supplementing with 5 to 15 grams of creatine a day and started strength training 2 to 3 times a week

26:49Adam Schafer:because we already know what exercise does

26:52Sal Di Stefano:for that category coupled with creatine it has to be

26:58Adam Schafer:here's something else and Doug if you You can look this up. Look up the rate of anxiety with vegans versus omnivores. So I know that vegans will suffer from higher rates of anxiety than omnivores when the diets are somewhat healthy. I wonder if that's creatine because you see these pretty dramatic improvements in health, especially with vegans and creatine because they're not getting any from dietary sources. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I don't think this is what you're looking for. Nah, there's more. There are other studies. So meta-analysis will show that higher nutrient deficiencies and anxiety and depression.

27:44Adam Schafer:So you have to look at healthy versus healthy, by the way, not vegans versus garbage omnivore diets.

27:49Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, that makes sense.

27:52Adam Schafer:But yeah, creatine, just one of those. If you have better energy production in the body, you tend to feel better. Yeah.

27:59Sal Di Stefano:I mean, logically, that makes sense. I just find that percentage is profound. Yeah. I mean, that's a big difference. It is. To report within a week's time.

28:07Adam Schafer:You know what's cool about this? It's also good for you. It's extremely safe. So it's healthy. It's good longevity supplement. Easy to take. And it's inexpensive. Yeah, inexpensive, easy to take. Yeah, Keon, our partners, Keon, have pure creatine monohydrate, I think, in capsules and just powder. You can just try it. Yeah. Try it for 30 days and see if you notice an improvement.

28:27Justin Andrews:Well, it seems a lot like the conversation we had about like mitochondrial health and like why that's popping up so much. Yeah, it's very much connected. And that whole energy production system is like, you know, if you can get that back on track, like how many things we could resolve.

28:43Adam Schafer:I have a friend of mine who is a nurse. And so she and she does those great nurses sometimes. Well, you know, your wife did this. These crazy schedules.

28:54Justin Andrews:Yeah.

28:54Adam Schafer:Will they work overnight or whatever and then try to readjust? It's just brutal. It's brutal.

28:58Justin Andrews:Yeah. Graveyard shifts.

28:59Adam Schafer:She started taking creatine. She's like, I feel way better. Yeah. Like way better. My mental focus is better. I don't feel so foggy. I don't feel so burnt out. And she's just taking 10 grams a day.

29:11Justin Andrews:Yeah. What was that study that came out about like, you know, the lack of sleep and how it benefited? Yeah, it's 20 grams.

29:18Adam Schafer:Yeah. You had really bad sleep. 20 grams of creatine erased the cognitive deficits that came from it. It was crazy. It was just super wild. That's nuts, dude. I know.

29:26Sal Di Stefano:Isn't that cool? No, that's super cool.

29:27Adam Schafer:I love that. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, a BPC study. I got a BPC study for you guys. BPC-157. It's back, right?

29:35Justin Andrews:Like in circulation?

29:36Adam Schafer:It looks like they're going to reverse the, they're definitely going to reverse the restrictions. So BPC-157 will be, yeah. So they gave 12 patients. This is a human study. 12 patients, a single injection, one injection of BPC-157 in their knee. Okay? So these people had chronic knee pain. This is osteoarthritis, meniscus tears, ligament sprains. So people who had just chronic knee pain, one injection, 11 out of 12 of them, so the vast majority of them, had pain relief, significant pain relief that lasted six months to a year with one shot. Every one of them had failed standard treatment for over a year.

30:21Adam Schafer:That's wild, dude. Yeah, dude. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. That's wild.

30:25Justin Andrews:I know.

30:26Sal Di Stefano:Is it officially back? Do you know if it's back with like MP hormones and stuff? Do you know?

30:30Adam Schafer:They have pentadeca-arginate, which is the same thing. Yeah. But I know that they're getting – Yeah, I wonder. They're not working on it if they don't.

30:38Sal Di Stefano:I know Phil was on the phone with Katrina. I overheard the conversation. And I want to say there was five peptides that came back that were – That's one of them. That was one of them. And I'm assuming that that means they've got it ready to go now. Yeah. I don't know if that was like it's going to. but uh i know he was celebrating that news with her which it was a big deal that was i forgot what

31:01Adam Schafer:the other four were but there were some other big ones too so the thing about peptides is that they're so popular now yeah and you can go online and get them as research chemicals and this is what a lot of people are doing um is they're going online they're not getting them from fda regulated uh compound pharmacies a bit of a crap shoot and you know some of them may be good some of them may not. Some of them might be something bad. I've actually seen some third-party testing. It's a little scary. On some of that stuff, again, you're injecting your body. You might want to go the FDA compound lab, you know, compounding pharmacy, I should say, route with a doctor.

31:39Adam Schafer:That's what we have at mphormones.com. It's like, this is a real medical professional and these are real compounding pharmacies. It's not a quote-unquote research chemical.

31:48Sal Di Stefano:What percentage of people do you think go gray market?

31:51Adam Schafer:A lot. Really? It's a huge market, bro. It's a huge market. It's so funny to me. I know. It's the workaround.

31:58Sal Di Stefano:I remember as a trainer early on with my clients, when I tell them to go get a certain protein powder or this or that. Come back with a Walmart brand? Yeah, yeah. And I'd be like, what are you doing? Oh, it was half the price. It's like, yeah, it's probably half the shit in there too. A quarter of it even. And this is stuff that you're ingesting. This is stuff you're injecting. It's like, why would you risk? Quality matters, yeah. This is just one of those things I, I don't know, save on your grocery bill or your electric bill or save on something else. I mean, I get saving money. I can respect that, you know, but the thing that you end up ingesting or injecting into your body, probably not the thing you.

32:39Justin Andrews:Yeah. I wouldn't skimp out on that.

32:41Adam Schafer:Every time I see us, every time I see an investigative report on supplements, we're not even talking about peptides right now. Okay. Supplements. Every time I see an article, I go, Oh God, here we go. because they'll take supplements. They'll take third parties, test them all. And a majority of them come back not good. Supplements, just regular old supplements. You're like, oh, and then you're bummed. Super bummed, dude.

33:08Sal Di Stefano:Well, it's because it's such an easy cash grab. Nobody checks. Because nobody checks. If you put just whatever in it, you can get away with it, and you can sell it for really expensive and cost you nothing to bill or make. So if you make a good run for six months to a year before you get caught, it's a slap on the wrist and you made a bunch of money. So, of course, I mean, it's so dirty that there's companies that do this and they just change their branding and do it again. No, I'm serious. It's like, that's it. Yeah, there's not like serious ramifications for this. It's like a slap. Yeah, exactly.

33:47Sal Di Stefano:Shreds rebranded, came right back and did something else. So these companies do that. They run as long as they can, and they sell until somebody else decides to pay for a third-party test just to call them out, right? Yeah. And then it's like, oh, you caught us. And then, oh, we'll just start a whole new brand, do the hustle all over again. And it's just like, dude, I mean, those are the things I don't know that you don't go skimp on, I don't feel like. No, dude, I know. Spend for the extra. And that's why the good supplements are expensive is because they're paying to have all that stuff done.

34:23Adam Schafer:And margins on supplements, I mean, depending on the supplement, but they're typically not that good, especially the common ones like protein powder. Margins suck.

34:29Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, creatine sucks.

34:30Adam Schafer:Creatine sucks because they're super popular.

34:32Sal Di Stefano:All your major vitamins, they suck. You're not making huge margins off of that. The only way you're making huge margins is if it's garbage in there. If you fill a bunch of pills with water, then you can make a bunch of money. But if you don't.

34:47Adam Schafer:My favorite are when they take the libido-boosting pills, and like 80 % of them actually have. Like Viagra's actually. Yeah, dude, like Viagra in them.

34:59Justin Andrews:It's like one out of every 20 pills or something. By the way, you know what's funny about that?

35:04Adam Schafer:Is that that definitely didn't stop anyone from buying them. No.

35:08Justin Andrews:Of course not.

35:08Adam Schafer:Because that's like, hey, did you guys know those muscle-building pills? like five out of ten of them had steroids people are cool like whoa let's keep taking them no that's

35:16Sal Di Stefano:that's why they use things like that like niacin like they use supplements and they use things materials that make people feel something do you remember the first time you took a big dose of

35:26Adam Schafer:niacin yes oh my god did you get sweating my ass off sitting in my bed bro i i read that niacin was good my whole face red like a tomato dude i was working i was managing santa teresa and i read some stupid article about niacin and blood flow and this that and the other so i'm like just cheap dude i'll buy i'll take anything because i did i took a big old dose of niacin but 40 minutes later i'm giving a tour of the gym and i'm just and the lady's looking at me kind of like funny she's like are you okay and i look in the mirror and it was it looked like i had a massive sunburn my whole everything was super red it's so funny what just happened i think you're the only person i've ever

36:04Justin Andrews:met who's actually been able to take like each component from the supplement buy them all individually put them together and like i it's it's funny to me i love it because it's like you're like this mad you know experimental scientist back in the day doing all that stuff you for sure

36:21Sal Di Stefano:you win the award on although i definitely did a lot of stuff like that that's i think why i'm so jaded is because i did so much stuff that didn't work and so i'm like now i'm just like it takes a lot to convince me that it's worth me spending any money on anything it's like most stuff is i mean i did one of those i did one of those videos that our social media team did and uh i think it was um uh i think eli had me rate it was eli or danny had me rate like zero to five for uh i think um building muscle and sub i gave supplements a zero you know oh my god

36:57Adam Schafer:Well, because of the list you had to pick. Yeah, we had zero to five. It was like food, lifting weights, what is it? Yeah, rest. Yeah, it was all this thing.

37:06Sal Di Stefano:It was just like, no, of course. It was that fallen line, yeah. It's at the bottom. And then people were like, what about creatine? I'm like, well, creatine's great, but it's not moving the needle like these other things are going to move the needle. You take all the creatine you want for building muscle, not getting a good night's rest and not work out, you're going to get shit.

37:21Adam Schafer:It's like you're taking a bunch of kindergartners, and you're like, who's the strongest kindergartner? That's creatine. Yeah. Of all the supplements, it's the best. We're dealing with supplements here, you guys. Yeah. A lot of them don't do much.

37:31Sal Di Stefano:That's what you have to understand. And it doesn't mean that I like, well, I thought you said that. I was like, no, I mean, creatine is the greatest supplement. It's amazing. But it's like, if you give me a list of things that it's not, let's put it this way. My family member comes to me and they're, Adam, give me the things I need to do to go build muscle right now. And I give them the list. Like it just, it doesn't even, it doesn't crack the top five. I'm not, it's not my, like.

37:54Adam Schafer:I will say this. For some cases, there's certain nutrients. If you have a nutrient deficiency or if you're one of those people. Oh, of course. If you're one of those people that you're just not making enough ATP, it's an inexpensive way to see. Does this help me? Is this going to help you? Well, that's the nuance.

38:09Justin Andrews:Even then, you have to get to the point where you're doing all the right things and then something still isn't working. Right. You're like, okay, now I'm going to investigate this. That's the nuance of it.

38:17Sal Di Stefano:Or you've got expendable income, then 100%, then by all means. You know, you use and try and do all those things like that. But it's like, you know, I've never had somebody come to me and we weren't building muscle. We were doing something. And it was because I didn't give them a supplement. It wasn't. It was something like that. Oh, my God. I forgot that. I forgot that.

38:37Adam Schafer:You know who was really fun for me to train with supplements? Doug. Yeah. Yeah. Doug loves supplements. So I would just be like, hey, try this. I'd be like, okay.

38:47Sal Di Stefano:You know why? because doug's like you and where he's he's good about he's good about doing all the things oh yeah i'm terrible take the pills like it's so hard like you know i need someone to follow me around

38:58Justin Andrews:and like i can do one at a time like i'll just do the one thing yeah i don't take anything like none of it none of it all at once i don't know it's just like just i want to see if this is

39:08Adam Schafer:actually can do something and i like i don't care i should just start feeding that's what i should do i should be i should be in charge of you guys the supplements i mean i'm good if you if you give it

39:15Sal Di Stefano:to me. I mean, that's why I've left. I've done it before. That's why I've left. That's why my thing looks like a mess over here of all these pill bottles. That's because it's the only way I'll take it. Yeah. Because I look over at you and I'm like, right there. Accessible. Are you looking at me? I'm in your eyes show. Yeah, yeah. I look over here and I'm like, ah, shit. I gotta take those supplements. Sal told me to take. You know what I'm saying?

39:32Adam Schafer:I'm gonna take a left. So I pulled up some. Have you guys seen the studies that have been coming out on homeschooling? No. Have you guys seen them? Mm-mm. Like new stuff? So they just came out with some testing and some data on homeschool kids. homeschool kids outperform their public school peers in math, science, history, English, the SAT, and the ACT. They basically demolish them on all categories. And then I looked up the popularity of homeschooling through the years. In 1970, there were only 13 ,000 kids that were homeschooled. 1990, 850 ,000. 2000, 1.5 million. 2020, 5 million. Whoa. It's blowing up.

40:13Adam Schafer:Exploded. And now 2020, I bet, jumped because of COVID. Of course. A lot of parents were like, okay, I see what's going on here. I'm watching the Zoom. They're like, I could do that. But yeah, these kids generally outperform their peers.

40:27Justin Andrews:I was just talking to these kids that were homeschooled over the weekend, and it was interesting because they're talking about their subjects that they study too. And it's like, okay, we're learning Latin. We're learning logic. And I was like, wait a minute, logic? Like what does that entail? what's the curriculum entail for logic? And it's like, they'll give them these certain problems, but it's like, they have to articulate the entire process of how they got to that conclusion. And I'm just like, wow, like you would never,

40:55Sal Di Stefano:you would never get that in a public school. What, what are some of the, the bias that come with that though, that you had to be fair, right? Cause the type of person who decides they're going to take on a responsibility, like homeschooling your kid is already a different person. That's right. It's not the average person.

41:11Adam Schafer:This is typically a parent that's very involved. Very. You're right. You have to be. And so there's advantages. Small classroom, right? Although a lot of homeschool kids do pods and stuff like that, still small classroom. And here's another, this is a big advantage. My wife just did this this morning. I just talked to her this morning because she's just going into new curriculum with my five-year-old. and my five-year-old, a good parent, right? A mom or a dad knows what's most important for their kid to learn, okay? Here's an example. My son is doing these exercises where he has to learn how to listen, pay attention and follow order.

41:51Adam Schafer:So she'll read a paragraph and then he'll have to go and try and remember every step. So he'll say, okay, first thing you're gonna do is underline the dog. Then you're gonna write an A at the top of the page. Then you're gonna use a red crayon circle. And so it's like a bunch of steps. when she's done, he has to go through and try and remember everything. So it's an exercise on paying attention. But my wife knows that my son, the thing that he definitely needs to work on the most is not being a perfectionist. So he's got this thing where if he messes up, he beats himself up. He really beats himself up.

42:22Adam Schafer:So she knows that. So when he does it and he does a bunch of things wrong because she's mom and she knows, instead of saying, here's what you did wrong, here's fix that yeah she's like oh no let's move to the next one let's try it again yeah because she knows him yeah a teacher might not have uh this ability because a you're not mom well yeah you're not

42:42Justin Andrews:gonna get that kind of individualized custom that's right yeah and you're managing 30 adjustments

42:46Adam Schafer:that's right yeah and so so she's able to say hey this is the most important in fact i like that he's learning how to pay attention but what's really important is i want him to not be a

42:55Sal Di Stefano:perfectionist because that can cause so my my theory is is is tied more to what i said and you and you admitted, which is what I think is that I think that obviously the parents at homeschool are far more involved with the kids. And I think that if I can be as involved with my kid, with the professional of a teacher, like leading the way, it's like this beautiful, like I'll go heads up with a kid getting homeschooled with my son because of the attention that he gets and the leadership that he's getting with school paired with the amount of attention that my wife and I to give that kid now take homeschooling kids and put them against all schools and so like that like oh i wouldn't take that but i'd take the bet on the homeschool kids all day long but i would imagine a kid if you if you teased out all the parents that are completely disconnected from their kids school work and involvement and all of that and don't say not a day goes by that katrina i or both katrina and i spent at least an hour plus with max on part of his school stuff it were our his school requires it we have to sign off that we went through the packet we did all the things and the kids in kindergarten okay so we're not even into the upper grades so with and i and they teach him stuff i'm like oh wow that's so great i wouldn't have thought to

44:14Adam Schafer:do that so i think you're always going to do better when you care uh and you pay attention for sure the crux of it all uh but but that's my point is like i would i would love to see

44:24Sal Di Stefano:the comparison if you teased out all the parents that do not are not involved and then you put homeschool heads up against parents that are involved that are also so where the homeschool

44:35Adam Schafer:kids uh and there aren't specific studies but there are studies that move in that direction and so we don't have a direct one so it's hard to say i think that's the biggest factor i agree with you i think the biggest factor is uh how much a parent cares and how much they're involved but what you find with homeschool kids is the odds that they follow their parents values are significantly higher across the board that they yeah and I think it's like here's the thing like you can be very involved with your kid but there's still a way for six hours being taught by

45:09Sal Di Stefano:someone else that's right and you're rolling the dice on what values that they're giving yeah

45:13Adam Schafer:so if you're homeschooling your kid and you're definitely putting them in things You're not just like keeping them at home all the time. That's a myth, right? A lot of people think homeschool means they're just with me all the time. That's not true. But they're with you way more than the typical kid who goes off for a long time. I mean, six hours or five hours or seven hours in school. It's interesting. When you talk to homeschool parents who are really successful at it, ask them, how much time do you actually spend on education every day? It's like two hours, an hour. They're like, wait a minute, what?

45:44Adam Schafer:And your kid went to college and is crushing. How did you get through all that stuff? didn't need to spend six hours doing all that stuff i i want i always wonder too like um and

45:53Sal Di Stefano:i'd be jessica would be great to talk to my cousin would be great to talk to because they

45:55Adam Schafer:both obviously i think your cousin's the best person to talk to because she's done it for so

45:58Sal Di Stefano:long so long we're so new to it yeah and so many kids so many kids because the part that and i've never really asked her this that uh i find is and maybe max is because he's at a young age but uh he is when he's in the classroom setting he's so much more likely to sit down and do the work do a thing that when he's with mom and dad there's it takes more of an effort for him to to buy into doing that and so there's also the power of you and your peers are all sitting down and there's like and they have a very strict structure to all that versus me trying to get him to to do certain

46:33Justin Andrews:things like working at home remote right it's a very similar yeah right aspect because yeah there there are those clear distinctions it's like you know we're okay but now we're family and we're hanging and we're you know to have that kind of clear split you know there could be some bleed over but yeah i i know it's it's interesting too because it's like if and i feel like the passion has to come through as well like if that's you know from the parent that's actually you know providing it uh because you can get that kind of passion from a really good invested teacher yeah um that actually very knowledgeable but like pays that kind of attention that's how i know i

47:09Sal Di Stefano:couldn't do it you know it's just that i know i know i could yeah it is hella work because yeah

47:15Adam Schafer:let's be honest let's all be honest straight up when you have little kids it's a nice break oftentimes to say okay go to school and outsource that yeah i get some time to myself i get some time to clean the house i get some time like if you're if you're it's like you're on all the time it's a big-ass commitment i don't think it's for everybody for sure yeah i wouldn't be able to if If it was on me, I would definitely, I know. Yeah, we wrestle with that, yeah. As much as I value it, I wouldn't be able to do it.

47:40Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, no, I mean, I've said to Katrina before, like, I mean, I would like for us to do it, but it's like, man, I couldn't do it. You know what I'm saying? And she wasn't motivated to really want to do that because there is, there's a huge, there's, man, it's nice to have, that's why it's easy for us to be involved in parents is because I've only got to be involved an hour after school. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not hard for me. That's not hard for me to pick up with it. You're reinforcing it. Yeah, exactly. To talk to my teacher, his teacher, and go, like, where is he doing well? And, I mean, we go through all his stuff.

48:12Sal Di Stefano:It's like where he's lagging behind or where he's struggling or where he's excelling. It's like, okay, cool. We can focus on this at home. And then we compliment all their hard work that they're doing. And it's like, okay, I could do that. I got that all day. But ask me to do that for six hours in the day. And then transition over to like parenting home and value dad, which is different than school dad, I guess.

48:33Adam Schafer:That would be the crazy part, too, is and I see this more public schools and depending on where you're at. But oftentimes, like you look at what they teach your kids, like from a values perspective and you're like, man, I don't. That's not what I agree with. Like, what are you guys teaching our kids right now? What are you doing? I've seen so many stories of parents going to battle with schools over certain things. that they're educating their kids on.

48:57Justin Andrews:It's weird what people feel compelled ideologically that they have to insert and inject. And you're just like, instead of sticking with the curriculum. And so it just got, it muddied the waters a lot in the education system that I've found. And so it's been rough over the last few years. It needs to be disrupted big time.

49:16Sal Di Stefano:Well, that's the part that I think right now I'm good. I feel very confident in the direction they're going. How will I handle being faced with something like that? right like what what what will i do pull them out right well yeah no i mean that's exactly how

49:30Adam Schafer:i talked to some parents i told you guys this last time that they're they were in a classroom and one of the kids uh in the classroom identified as a cat and everybody went along with it yeah and they're like no we're taking our kid out what are you guys doing yeah it seems like an urban legend you know but i've heard this a couple different examples of that yes yeah it might even be the same same kids probably yeah we're in a same area yeah dude like what are you guys doing yeah oh we want him to feel comfortable no dude what are you doing yeah sounds made up but yeah it's like what

49:58Sal Di Stefano:the hell's going on crazy yeah and then you as a parent you gotta sit there and explain that back home well we have people really like halloween yeah like oh dude you're around you said halloween you brought up the holidays right now so my poor wife when she's battling right out so my son loves to decorate for the holidays right we know you guys have known that forever with with Halloween and Christmas. Well, those are the big ones, right? But Katrina, I don't know if you've ever been to our house. We do. She does everything. St. Patrick's Day, Easter. Oh, that's nice. So she does like little decorations to the house.

50:32Sal Di Stefano:She has a couple of vases that she always changes and she's got out every holiday through the whole year planned out. But we only go crazy for Christmas and Halloween because those are like month long decorations.

50:45Justin Andrews:Sure.

50:45Sal Di Stefano:But he's learned that, you know, that we do decorate for St. Patrick's Day with the gold and do the whole thing and easter and yada yada and but he's getting upset at katrina that we don't have we don't have enough decorations for easter and katrina's like this isn't this isn't nothing no well he wants it all well it's an outside holiday why would we not have decorations outside that's his argument right now he's asking all the other family who's the big bunny yeah so poor katrina right now is like trying to solve this like i don't know what to do with this kid right now because he wants to decorate you got easter and then what sincronomano well

51:23Adam Schafer:You know you got so racist, bro. What are you talking about, bro? It's so racist. That's the holiday.

51:29Sal Di Stefano:You guys decorate for a second of my life?

51:32Justin Andrews:Yeah.

51:33Sal Di Stefano:No, we had St. Paddy's Day. We just did. Some cervezas. And then we did the whole. You know, this is what she gets for going over the top, you know, and doing the whole house up and making it look like the leprechauns came in and destroyed it and pissed in our toilet and left it away. No way, really? Oh, yeah, yeah. She puts footprints on the seat. Oh, she goes all out. Oh, yeah, and then turns the toilet water green. Oh, my God. And then writes a note, ha-ha, I got away. And then she steals the gold. That's great.

51:59Justin Andrews:Nobody does that. I told you guys way back, I dressed up as a leprechaun going to school. So that was the level we went in my house. Oh, that's my favorite story. Because nobody dresses up. I'm just casually throwing that out there. You were the only one? I was the only one in the entire school. leprechaun hat, dude, buckle. How old were you? Like tights. 16. Dude, I was in fourth grade, dude. Maybe third grade, actually.

52:28Adam Schafer:So you showed up, your mom dressed you up like a leprechaun. Yes. Dropped you off at school. Dropped me off. Hey, no, no, I was on the bus.

52:37Justin Andrews:I can't believe my friends didn't just completely roast me, dude. But, I mean, you're so young that, like, everybody's like, oh, hey. You know, they thought it was cool. You didn't get pinched, that's for sure. I didn't get pinched. You didn't get pinched that day. And that's back when I thought I could do this little Irish jig. You just blessed it out? I swear to God. Oh, my God, bro. Other teachers pulled me in their class, and I just did it. Irish jig in front of the whole school. Look, kids, we have a leopard girl here today. And you'd think, right? I wouldn't have this fear of speaking in public.

53:07Adam Schafer:How many letters did you get from girls that day? They were like, hey, do you like me? Yeah, I don't. Yes or no? I don't even remember.

53:13Justin Andrews:I was like looking back, it's so embarrassing. thing like it's like whoa dude i can't i wish you had i got talked into that i bet if we if we let

53:21Sal Di Stefano:max he probably would do something like that he'd just show up by himself i would not be surprised if we if we got an outfit for him to wear he'd want to wear it to school he would probably do that that's hilarious yeah he's i mean he loves he's the the dressing up for birthdays does he

53:32Adam Schafer:wear because my kids love this he might i don't know he's not too old for this my kids uniform well no they love uh like theme pajamas oh oh yeah and and so my and my three-year-old's convinced whatever she wears she gets the powers of that. So we got her Incredible Hulk pajamas. That's sick. We got Spider-Man pajamas and then here's the best one. You guys ready for this? Yeah. Someone gifted us Christian pajamas that said like Jesus on them. Yeah. So she runs out of her room. It's not a superhero. It's just Jesus, right? Yeah. She runs, I have Jesus power. She's got powers. She starts walking on like I have the most power.

54:06Adam Schafer:So she's like, she's got Jesus power. I'm like, all right. So in our house,

54:10Justin Andrews:quick, you have water? Let me turn out the wine real quick. the luxury of the big luxury is if we allow him to stay in pajamas because if it was up to him

54:23Sal Di Stefano:he'd wear pajamas all day long so when he goes over to nana's house we normally end up picking him up in the afternoon or the next day and he's still in his pajamas is all day long yeah if he could wear pajamas all day he'd wear pajamas all day and swim naked that's his thing that's like Wow. And so that's like, hey, we can't always. He's your son, dude. He's so weird how similar he is to you. Yeah, 100%. You're a little mini Adam. Dude. That's funny.

54:48Adam Schafer:Hey, you guys, by the way, I got to tell you guys. Do you know who eats all the crisp power? Who's responsible for that? Who eats them all? Who? We thought it was the trainers. No, it's done. The little epicons. Listen. The little epicons. We're on to you, Doug. Hey, every time. When we're done with the show, every time. And sometimes I'll hang out just a little bit. He's got. You got a bag in there, don't you? Not at the moment. I ate all those. What's your favorite?

55:13Sal Di Stefano:What's your favorite?

55:14Justin Andrews:The Flamin' ones.

55:15Sal Di Stefano:I do like those, too. Those are good. Yeah.

55:18Justin Andrews:And the Everything ones. I like those. I like those, too. Just every day.

55:21Adam Schafer:And I'll be in here doing something, and I'll hear... I need some of that afternoon protein. That's a little bit of a pick-me-up.

55:28Sal Di Stefano:I mean, maybe the greatest hack yet, though, when you think about it. What other carb snack has got that much protein?

55:36Justin Andrews:Well, it's not that high in carbs, to be honest. It's got fiber. You know what I mean? Hey, look it up, Doug. Yeah, yeah. Fiber's got a carb-based snack. Yeah, yeah.

55:43Sal Di Stefano:It's a carby-based snack. I mean, what would you call pretzels otherwise? Yeah, yeah. You would consider it that. So that's my point. Like, what other carb type of snack that is high-protein, low-carb? I can't think of any. Let me think. Beef jerky, dried chips like they do? Oh, yeah. The chip. Yeah, I know. How much fiber is in that? Like pork rinds or something?

56:05Adam Schafer:10 grams of fiber. Yeah, bro. Hey, listen, 28 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber. I know. It's so good. Yeah. Only, yeah, it's so good. Low calorie. Yeah. So good.

56:15Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

56:15Adam Schafer:Yeah, they do a good job. That, hey, by the way, that company, it's already blown up. Oh, it's huge. That's going to be.

56:21Sal Di Stefano:They're already, I think, are they in Costco now? I thought I saw they were in Costco.

56:24Justin Andrews:I did see it somewhere that, I think it was Costco. Yeah. Yeah. Costco, Wegmans, Hy-Vee, the vitamin shop.

56:31Sal Di Stefano:What's Hy-Vee? They blew up.

56:32Justin Andrews:Not in this local area, but I'm sure someplace.

56:35Adam Schafer:Yeah, they blew up fast. But I'm telling you guys right now, every day he has a bag over there. I have a bag almost every day.

56:42Sal Di Stefano:Do you really? Yeah. No, it's such a great, easy snack that's high protein. When can you eat, like I said, when can you eat a salty, chippy-like snack and get 20-something grams? I know other brands have come out with protein chips, but they're not as high of protein as that. Yeah. They're not as high as close. It's weird. And they're nowhere near as good either.

57:00Justin Andrews:Yeah, how it tastes like that, and it's light and crunchy.

57:03Adam Schafer:You know what I saw a video just made me think of? Have you guys ever done this? Maybe, Justin, you did the most construction, and you guys eat the most. Did you do the most construction? You did more than us. I did a lot. Yeah, bro. You did a lot more than us.

57:15Justin Andrews:Pretty much every job I had until college, I started waiting tables.

57:21Adam Schafer:I did it when I was a teenager in the summers with my dad. Yeah, I did it for a few years like that. But I saw a guy on social media. Is this a thing where you buy a bag of chips? Then you open the bag, and then you go to 7-Eleven, and you put the nacho cheese in the bag. Oh, that's high school shit, dude.

57:35Sal Di Stefano:Kids have been in that high school. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. Kids, you know what they do? They get fire Cheetos and pour the nacho cheese over the top of it. We did a lot more Slurpee. You'd mix all the different Slurpees together.

57:47Justin Andrews:Yeah, that's our era.

57:48Sal Di Stefano:Our era is 7-Eleven, mix three or four Slurpees. The next generation coming up in high school, that was like a thing where you get fire. Remember when fire Cheetos became popular? We were already kind of on our way out of high school.

57:59Adam Schafer:What's in a Slurpee that keeps it not – because I've had icies or shaved ice. It's not the same as a Slurpee.

58:07Sal Di Stefano:No, so shaved ice is an actual ice machine that's like –

58:10Adam Schafer:Yes, I know that. But what's a Slurpee? Because it's still ice, right? Yeah, I don't know. It's possibly being mixed, though.

58:16Justin Andrews:Yeah, it's kind of like when you get a – what is it? Like a frozen drink at a bar. They have a thing that keeps spinning it. But it stays like that for a while.

58:23Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, well, it's because it's moving. It doesn't let it freeze. It stays really, really cold. Yeah, but I bet you icy. They keep it kind of liquidy by moving it. No, it's just a syrup. You think so? Oh, yeah, it's just a syrup over ice.

58:33Adam Schafer:Because you know what they do sometimes, like the ice cream, the soft serve, there's chemicals in there that keep it. Yeah, who knows? They probably have that, bro. I mean, it's 7-Eleven. Yeah, I guess you're right. It's from syrup. It wouldn't surprise me. That's all it is. Oh, well, there you go. They use yucca and quillia. What is that? Quillia. Quillia extracts for foam stability. See, that's what it is. See, something makes it stable. Yucca and quillia.

58:56Sal Di Stefano:I thought it just keeps it moving. And that's what keeps it from freezing. And it's kept at a very cold temperature inside there. What plant does those come from? What plant? The yucca plant is a plant. That is a real plant. Were you big on slurpies at one point? I was a big slurpy kid. Really? Yeah, yeah. 7-Eleven was right by my house, and we used to do what Justin said.

59:15Adam Schafer:Yeah, we'd ride our bikes over there, and we'd do the... I was weird. I wasn't like... I would eat it. I mean, you gave me a slurpy, I'd have it. Slurpy suicides. You were too busy reading the encyclopedia in your room? Yeah, no, no. I liked weird snacks. I like Cheetos, cheese puffs. I like Doritos. You like those circus peanuts.

59:33Sal Di Stefano:You know what I like? Those are good. That nobody likes. I don't think I ever see anybody eat, but I love was Funyuns. I used to crush Funyuns. I love Funyuns.

59:41Adam Schafer:You know why I stopped eating them, though? Make your breath smell. Yep. So you're in junior high and you're trying to talk to a girl. You just have Funyuns. I hate those. I hate Corn Nuts. Love Corn Nuts. The one kid that would always come with Corn Nuts.

59:50Sal Di Stefano:The whole room stink, dude. They're delicious. Immediately. I like. You don't like Corn Nuts, huh? I love them. smells bad. I love them. There's something satisfying about the crunch of those, too. Well, I'm outnumbered here. Someone needs to make high-protein corn nuts. You were the guy that put spring cheese on crackers, dude.

1:00:06Justin Andrews:Yeah. Okay. String cheese. He's a big cheese whiz guy. I would always bring in. Everybody tries to steal my string cheese, dude.

1:00:13Adam Schafer:Explain that. Hey, there's a little trauma back there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a little trauma there. I would come with two, and then it'd always be one. I'm like, who stole my string cheese?

1:00:22Justin Andrews:I think it was a joke, you know, amongst like my other friends like somebody would always try and steal my string cheese did you bite

1:00:27Adam Schafer:the string cheese or peel it i peel it dude why would you what's the point of the string cheese

1:00:31Sal Di Stefano:i know so my did you guys have braces as kids no i did i never did you know what's funny about that

1:00:36Adam Schafer:did you doug no my parents asked me like they didn't invent braces back yeah like i had a

1:00:41Justin Andrews:crickety and all that and they're like oh do you want to fix that or like i'm like well i don't know i think i'm like i was just trying to be like well i'm cool you know i'll i'll deal with it kind of thing. Oh, good. Great. Great. Fine. I just saved them a ton of money.

1:00:55Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. That's really what it amounted to. It's really pricey now. Why would you ask a kid? I mean, it was pricey when we were kids, but it's like gone crazy.

1:01:02Adam Schafer:I think generally around$7 ,000. No, yeah. It was like$1 ,000 something when we were kids. My daughter had to have she had a lot of stuff happen. We did the pallet spreading, like the whole deal. But they don't do headgear anymore, I don't think. They don't do that anymore? Not so much anymore. I haven't seen it, but... No, no. They're better. they do something else but headgear was bro you see a kid remember that kid hey headgear was rough

1:01:24Justin Andrews:so I got the low down on ice here for you so we got flavored syrup water CO2 in a specialized pressurized machine so the machine continuously churns and freezes the liquid to create a fluffy carbonated semi-solid slurry it's the CO2

1:01:40Sal Di Stefano:and the moving of it that's what it is so can you do like a nitro infused version of that you may be able to Justin I mean, that's kind of what it is. Yeah, I think that's kind of what it is. Okay. Yeah. I like chicken. The coffee icy sounds kind of good, actually, as you're saying that.

1:01:55Adam Schafer:Chicken and a biscuit crackers for me. Hold that thought, dude. Best. Nobody eats those, dude. Chicken and a biscuit. I don't even think they make those. Oh, I understand. Yes, they're still around. Those were the best, bro. Crackers that taste like chicken soup.

1:02:05Justin Andrews:That's also one of those things that's weird. It's like, was it ramen that was like shrimp flavor? And you're like, hmm.

1:02:11Adam Schafer:Oh. Why is it? Yeah. Like, how? Did you eat dry ramen? Do you ever eat dry ramen and pour the stuff on it? Probably in college, yeah.

1:02:19Justin Andrews:I eat a lot of like, what is that cheese that comes out of the can? Cheese whiz. Yeah, that's easy cheese. Yeah, oh, easy cheese.

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1:03:04Adam Schafer:Get a discount. Back to the show. Our next caller is Jennifer from Tennessee. Hi, Jennifer. How are you doing, Jennifer? Hey, guys.

1:03:12Justin Andrews:Thanks for having me on.

1:03:13Adam Schafer:You got it. How can we help you?

1:03:15Justin Andrews:So first of all, I know this is total first world problems and totally insane vanity, but I've heard you guys address a few things that are similar to what I have going on, but nothing exactly like me. I have been following your show for a while. I have a couple of your programs. I would be what I guess is considered pear shape. So I show, sorry, dog. I have it's very easy for me to show all sorts of muscles in my upper half but I cannot get definition in my lower half to save my ever-loving life a little bit of backstory I've worked out since I'm a little hyper a lot hyper so exercise was like a way to medicate myself like throughout my entire like whatever junior high high school and adult life and I did it the 90s way right which is the cardio and um I swam through high school and then I did rowing so it was there was some lifting involved but uh I'm very strong naturally and that's not that hasn't been cool and except for maybe the last five years so I hid from that right I was like give me the five and ten pounds because that's what girls are supposed to do um last five years I've been really up in the lifting I don't know what my maxes are because I'm afraid to max out but with you guys following your maps anabolic last fall and now i'm on muscle mommy i've been just every time i lift i'm just trying to add a couple pounds so how does somebody who has a pretty good background in exercise i used to own a yoga and pilates studio here in town i did a lot of that i still do a little bit of pilates i have a reformer and chair and stuff here at home not too much I'm following muscle maps muscle mommy phase two right now 15 of like those reps can be exhausting y 'all love the shoulder work I've noticed that but how do I modify it I heard you guys talk about this with one fella because he had big legs um he he reduced the volume on the legs and increased it on the upper body how do you modify your programs to do is it more volume on the legs to get definition?

1:05:30Adam Schafer:It's not to get more definition, but to build more muscle. So there's a couple ways that you can get more definition in an area. One is to get it leaner, and one is to develop the muscle underneath more. Now, you look like you're pretty lean just from looking at you. What's your body fat percentage?

1:05:48Justin Andrews:The Hume scale, y 'all are not going to like it. It's at 17%, 17.3.

1:05:56Adam Schafer:I would have guessed by just looking at you, I could tell that you're in the teens. I don't think it's a good idea to try to get leaner. I don't want to. Yeah, you won't feel good. It'll throw your hormones off. It's just not good. You probably, what you want to do is just focus on building the lower body a little more to get the shape that you're looking for. And the way to do that is to take volume away from upper body training and transfer it to lower body training. um the other option is this and this very well may be the case you might be just a little bit skewed on how you're judging the way you look

1:06:35Justin Andrews:yes the hume scale has helped a lot with that we it was a christmas present to myself and um when i saw you know the body fat percentages and different various body parts i was like oh that's shocking the hume scale has helped some of that body dysmorphia for sure however when you're sitting there and if I take my sweater off and you can see all the muscles and there's like veins showing if I lift anything, which dudes think is cool. It's not so cool for women. I don't have any of that in the legs. Not that I want to have the veins showing, but I would like there to be evidence of the fact that I exercise like when I wear shorts and you don't see that necessarily.

1:07:14Adam Schafer:I'm going to bet, I would bet my house that you're, that you look very developed and muscular in the lower body. If you have veins in the upper body, you get leaner, it's going to get worse.

1:07:25Justin Andrews:I don't want to get, I've been bulking because of you guys. I've been bulking since January. I don't follow, I used to coach for an Indian company and they were really big on the macros and all that kind of stuff. And it was too low for me. I know very well if I get below 2000 calories, I will eat you. um so i eat between 2500 and 3000 calories a day it just depends if my daughter makes cookies we're really clean eaters we you know i've got 20 37 like meat chickens in my basement right now so we we butcher our own stuff so we're really clean eaters and i eat a lot so it's hard for me to i don't know exactly how much more to add what you get that what what what about um tell me a

1:08:11Sal Di Stefano:little bit about your, your squat, your deadlift when you do train legs, like what are you working out with?

1:08:17Justin Andrews:So I, again, so in my, in my email, I have a tear in my right labrum on my hip and my left shoulder labrum. Um, so I'm a little scared of lifting heavy. I went to a PT when I started maps and, um, had her watch me. So I basically started at zero back in November, excuse me, November. And now, you know, um, with the maps anabolic, I guess I got up to like 85 and I just kind of got scared with the squat. Um, with the deadlifts, I just did the Romanians today. We did 15 at what, like one 15 or something.

1:08:54Adam Schafer:Um, Jennifer, I don't, not that I need to know the answer to that. I already know what's happening here, but how tall are you and what's your body weight?

1:09:02Justin Andrews:I am five, six and three quarters, the three quarters count. And I weigh about, I oscillate between one 50 and one 55 right now.

1:09:11Adam Schafer:So you're one 55, 17 % body fat. You've had two injuries. I see you did CrossFit. I see you owned a Pilates studio. You're on, maybe Doug, scroll down a little bit for me. Uh, you're taking, you're on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy you're taking tests of maryland ipamaryland uh nad glutathione bpc tb500 microdosing glp1 i'm going to tell you something right now i know what the issue is what is the issue you're you're seeing yourself very skewed honey there is no answer to this other than stop focusing so much on the details that you think are not looking the way you want and that might not be the answer you want but that's the right answer because okay you've got a lot of muscle you're lean you're leaner than probably is good i think you probably should gain some body fat but that sounds probably like nails on a chalkboard to someone like you you're eating a lot you eat healthy you eat high protein uh i that's there's nothing you would do more the only thing i would do look if i was your trainer i would focus on correctional exercise so that you felt more comfortable with heavier

1:10:19Sal Di Stefano:movements maybe build your confidence in the street in the lifting heavier support system

1:10:23Adam Schafer:split stance exercises would be good hip thrusts would be good for you trap bar deadlifts might be better than a straight bar deadlift for you stick with unilateral for a while yeah unilateral so like map symmetry would probably be good for you but that was going to be what i thought next yeah that would be good for you but there's nothing like there's i bet you if you sent this picture it's not that you need to but i bet you i would probably laugh and be like i think pretty hard on yourself yeah you're really hard on yourself i bet your husband tells you that in

1:10:49Justin Andrews:your friends probably tell you that too i uh no he my husband doesn't care he said my butt was uh shrinking since doing uh maps anabolic he's like stop it doesn't even because i'm whatever uh hourglass whatever yeah or perry shape yeah yeah yeah i yeah i think i think you're i think

1:11:08Adam Schafer:you're really tearing yourself down huh i mean i could i mean yeah you could add more volume to lower body reduce volume upper body uh continue to eat surplus what does that look like though

1:11:18Justin Andrews:When you say reduced volume, like in the MAPS program. Same exercises.

1:11:22Adam Schafer:So like you're following Muscle Mommy, right? You would take one or two sets away from the upper body stuff and then add them to the lower body stuff. And you don't need to change the programming.

1:11:31Sal Di Stefano:So probably something like chest and shoulders, since you recognize that that's an area that you're not as focused on. So take two sets from chest, two sets from shoulders.

1:11:40Adam Schafer:Add four sets to lower body stuff.

1:11:41Sal Di Stefano:And then you have four sets towards a lower body exercise.

1:11:45Justin Andrews:So just add in another lower body to the MAPS?

1:11:47Adam Schafer:another set just another set you can do same exercises just added an extra set yeah so let's say like it says hip thrust for three sets now you can do five sets because you took two away

1:11:57Justin Andrews:from upper body right yeah okay okay i haven't done five i usually stop at three sometimes four

1:12:04Adam Schafer:because i was yeah whatever 90s girl yeah no so that's it and so you would just trade volume is what you're doing you can even skip you know if you if your shoulders get really developed in upper body. You could even train them every other week and not have to train them weekly. Um, and take that extra work and put it towards the sets on your lower body. Yep.

1:12:24Justin Andrews:Okay. I'll try it. Yeah.

1:12:28Adam Schafer:Give it a shot, but I know that's not what you want to hear because I know

1:12:30Justin Andrews:I kind of figured that cause you guys always harp on women shouldn't get below 20. And I I've been up when I was having babies. Um, I didn't focus on, I just ate, You know, I was making a kidney. So if mama wants golden grams, mom's eating golden grams. And, um, so, you know, I've gotten above it, but even after, and I weighed whatever, I gained like a hundred pounds between both my babies. And so I feel like there's a healthy relationship with food. Um, that's not the issue. I just don't, I don't, I can tell a difference when I'm over 20, I got the pouch. And instead of seeing muscles, you see the parade wave.

1:13:07Justin Andrews:You know what I mean?

1:13:08Adam Schafer:I'm not too worried about your body fat percentage because of how much food you said you're eating. You may be one of those athletically, you know, genetically gifted women, which it sounds like you are, where you probably were always stronger. You probably built muscle easier than most people around you. And some women can eat a lot and weight train and walk around, you know, 18 % body fat and not really have hormone issues or anything like that. It's not common. but if you were telling me that you were eating you know 1800 calories a day uh i'd be like you gotta bump you gotta bump that up but it sounds to me like if what you're telling me is true which i think it is uh that you're eating uh like plenty of food i'm not worried about that but i definitely think that you're breaking yourself down like you're probably looking at yourself in the mirror and finding the little areas that you think need to look different and that's messing up this whole

1:13:59Justin Andrews:experience maybe but like when my calves are bigger than my husband's like i got 16 inch calves

1:14:04Adam Schafer:guys and like so my wife's calves are bigger than mine too and whatever what is it i'm my thighs are

1:14:11Justin Andrews:maybe like they they go between 23 and 25 those are some big legs and i want to be able to see the muscles like i can see in my arm if i'm just moving you can see shoulder muscles right and that's like i would like to see there's a a quadricep muscle that goes up my thigh i would like to see that it's vanity total first world problem but if i'm working out and following your protocol the three days a week i'm not doing more i get my 10 000 plus steps a day because i am hyper

1:14:37Adam Schafer:like i would like to see evidence every especially every woman's going to be like that you're always going to be harder to see like just get a woman to see strations or quad definition the lower body yeah uh is like you're getting really lean yes you know that's just the way it is yeah But I bet you if you were standing with shorts on, I bet we would see very clearly from the front, oh, there's your quads. You probably have a nice hamstring bump in the back. Yeah, you do.

1:15:09Justin Andrews:We're just going to win with you.

1:15:10Adam Schafer:Get your husband on here. Let me ask him what he thinks. Let's get him on. Let's do anything.

1:15:13Justin Andrews:He's not here.

1:15:14Sal Di Stefano:I mean, Jennifer, it's really easy math for us. Like when you take somebody who's 17 % to 19 % body fat, that's why Sal asked you how much you weighed. You got a lot of lean body math. And then you're also saying how lean here. If you're showing veins in your upper body, you've got a lot of muscle in your legs. You've got a lot of muscle in your legs. And you may not see it that way or think that way. And everybody carries a lot of body fat in their lower legs. Some more than others, but that's... Especially women. I don't see quad separation until I'm getting ready for stage. I mean, I just don't.

1:15:49Sal Di Stefano:There's shape to it, you know, and it's covered with body fat. I know it is. that's where most people carry a lot of their body fat is hips and legs and especially women but you've got a lot of muscle on your body and you're lean i mean you're really lean so going down just to see separation in the legs would require us to hit an unhealthy place of

1:16:08Adam Schafer:body fat percentage yeah you have to get down to 15 yeah yeah you don't want to you don't want to

1:16:12Sal Di Stefano:do that you're already on the on the leaner side so you're better off just keep focusing on trying

1:16:17Adam Schafer:to build and place a little emphasis on the lower body um if if that's really again if that's really

1:16:24Justin Andrews:up and get strong and feel comfortable and confident that you can lift a little bit heavier and that's going to help move the needle in that direction you want anyways let me encourage you

1:16:33Adam Schafer:jennifer you've been doing this for a while you're uh you're in the same age range as us i can see that you're healthy you've got a lot of energy if i put you next to women your age there's probably a dramatic difference in both energy function and the way you look you're being real hard on yourself you're crushing it yeah you're you're eating a lot you got a fast metabolism you're working out you're active like you're totally killing it and there's definitely a thing it's there's a for real there's a thing for as people ruining the experience of this amazing thing that you've accomplished and continue to accomplish by breaking themselves down in the mirror by looking and saying i want this little piece here and i want a little bit more of that.

1:17:13Adam Schafer:And I feel like I don't look like a workout, even though everyone around you is like, man, you look like you work out. Not that it matters what they think. What matters is what you think. And it'll ruin the experience for you because you're on your path. If you, you stay the course, man, you're, you're on this incredible path and you're going to continue to separate yourself from your peers, which you're already already, like I said, you know, this ghost walk around a bunch of women, your age, and it's very different. You know how that's going to be yeah you wait till you're 57 67 77 it's going to be like you're in a different universe you're doing such a good job and i don't think you're celebrating it uh the way that you should and so that changes the experience of the whole thing and it makes it less uh enjoyable and more

1:17:56Sal Di Stefano:stressful i mean we're in the long game now at this point it's like maintain this and continue this on like sal saying uh getting obsessed with it or forcing your body to go a certain direction This is where the injury comes. This is where the injury happens or the setbacks come. Like you're, you're in such a good place. Such a great place. Stay there, Jennifer.

1:18:17Justin Andrews:Thanks. I will try the changing the question. I didn't know changing, adding some more volume. I'm not going to, I don't, I don't want to lose weight. I've given up like one 51, 35 is good. One 60. I don't even care. But I would just like to, I want, if a, if a bad guy's coming down the road and I've got my kids with me, I want him to be afraid that I kick him. I kick him into next week. You know what I mean? Just get a gun. We're in Tennessee. We have those two.

1:18:46Adam Schafer:Yeah, you're good, dude. You're doing great. You're doing really good.

1:18:51Sal Di Stefano:We'll have Doug send over map symmetry. So you got that next to fall. I think that'd be a good program for you.

1:18:57Justin Andrews:That's the one that's left and right, right? The bilateral. Yeah, unilateral. Stay in those first few phases. Yeah, totally. Don't do the last phase for a while. Don't do the last phase. Okay. And that will help me to get the confidence and the squat. Yes. Yes.

1:19:12Adam Schafer:Yes, it will. Especially with the injuries that you've had. Yeah. It'll build up that support system for you. Yep.

1:19:18Justin Andrews:Awesome. Thank you guys. I appreciate your time. Thank you, Jennifer. Y 'all have a good one.

1:19:25Adam Schafer:Did she hear anything? No, no.

1:19:28Sal Di Stefano:I wish we had a picture so we could see, but I mean, obviously. I don't need to see a picture. Yeah.

1:19:33Adam Schafer:I can see her neck. I could see how her delts look through her sweater. I mean, her numbers are on point. The numbers that she's giving me.

1:19:39Sal Di Stefano:She's actually like, she's jacked. Yeah, dude. She's not just like kind of fit. She's like got a - Really fit.

1:19:45Adam Schafer:Yeah, really fit.

1:19:46Sal Di Stefano:You're not 17 % body fat, 150, 160 pounds. At her height. Yeah. And complaining about your vascularity and your upper body and not have -

1:19:56Adam Schafer:Listen, this is tough. It's really tough because - And she don't want to hear it. And she don't want to hear it because she probably hears people tell her all the time how great she looks and she's like no i don't it ruins this incredible experience not that you got to sit there and celebrate how great you are well but it's like you can't enjoy it not only

1:20:13Sal Di Stefano:that sal but the the myth that um a lot of people fall for they don't know until they ever reach that point that it's it's like the money thing oh i'll be happy when i make this much money i'll be happy when i get to the it's an illusion and then you get there and you pick yourself apart the same way it's well it's literally the thing that motivates 90 of these competitors is that they're they still obsess even after they get i know present the most perfect physique on stage they are continually focused on all the flaws and that's what they keep it's like you know it's gonna happen years later she looks back at the picture that's oh my god i wish i was like

1:20:52Adam Schafer:this exactly what i was gonna say she's gonna look at herself in 10 years look at picture back Like, man, I looked, what was I thinking? Yeah. I looked amazing.

1:21:00Justin Andrews:Our next caller is Roger from California. What's up, Roger? What's happening? How's it going, gentlemen? Thanks for having me.

1:21:06Adam Schafer:Good. How can we help you, man?

1:21:08Justin Andrews:So I emailed, I've got probably a pretty unique situation here. So my son and I, right around Christmas, we purchased the MAPS 15 power lift. So a little background on my son. He's a baseball player. He's eighth grade going into his freshman year in high school next year. He's pretty kind of small by nature. He just hasn't hit that puberty yet. So he's about 5 '5", 110 pounds after a good meal. And so we started doing this in an effort to kind of lift more, but not kind of over train with baseball practices and kind of the other things he's got going on. So we got about three weeks into the program.

1:21:49Justin Andrews:um he was uh we were in kind of like the uh deadlift phase i guess is uh looking back on it and uh his deadlift was up he's deadlifted about 230 at the time um it increased strength by 10 percent um i saw my lifts go go kind of up in ways i hadn't seen before so we kind of knew the the program was was really working for us and for him and and it was cool doing it with him as a dad and a son kind of side by side. So the story takes a weird turn here is he was at a baseball practice one morning and during a drill, it wasn't during batting practice, so he didn't have a helmet on, but a ball that essentially wasn't supposed to be thrown ended up going in his way, hit him in the side of the head.

1:22:34And by that was at 10 in the morning,

1:22:37Justin Andrews:by four o 'clock that afternoon, we're in emergency kind of brain surgery He had a, what was called a, uh, cranial hematoma. So it wasn't actually his brain bleeding, but it was a small artery that was punctured by the fracture. So, uh, four hour surgery, um, came out of it. Everything was good. Um, but he's obviously was, this was about two and a half months ago. Um, so obviously it has some healing to, to kind of go through, which, which puts, um, the lifting and all of that, obviously on, on the back burner. So, uh, uh, kind of at the point we're at now, um, reason I had reached out to you guys is, um, I had a good friend at, at our church.

1:23:21Justin Andrews:Oh, that's funny. He's a good friend. Now at the time I had, I did not know the gentleman and he had came over and just randomly started talking and mentioned your podcast, which is where kind of all this kind of comes together. And, uh, so after watching my son kind of go through the workout stage and all that working and now kind of hit a hit a little bump in the road um i kind of wanted to reach out to you guys and just um get a feel for kind of he's now so now we're looking about three months before um high school preseason uh kind of camp starts and uh kind of reaching out to you guys to see what kind of program you would recommend him getting into full clearance from the doctors now.

1:24:04Justin Andrews:I'm just, we always say praise to God because brain is a hundred percent healthy. There's zero lingering side effects. Nothing wrong with muscles or anything like that. He's, he's got a full clearance from the doctor. The only thing we're waiting for now for getting back to actually baseball is for the fracture itself to heal. And then they had to take out a size of about his palm from his skull to let the bleeding kind of dissipate. And so now we got to wait for that kind of to heal up. So he's about a month away from actually getting back on the field. But in terms of the weights and conditioning and all that, he's got a full green light to go.

1:24:48Justin Andrews:So I would just like to kind of reach out to you guys and say, you know, what would be your advice to him, both for getting stronger, getting back into it, but also just the baseball atmosphere landscape does look for kids to be bigger and stronger. And so what he could do to kind of fight this little by nature syndrome that he's got going right now.

1:25:12Adam Schafer:Yeah, man. Well, that's scary, dude. So glad to hear he's okay. So, again, just to confirm, no movement issues, no speech issues, no nothing. It's all good. Just waiting for the complete healing. Okay.

1:25:25Justin Andrews:That was the crazy thing is he had passed all PT and concussion tests two days after it. Wow.

1:25:32Adam Schafer:That's awesome, man.

1:25:33Justin Andrews:Thank God. Protected in a mighty way.

1:25:35Adam Schafer:That's awesome. Okay. So, just to encourage you, Roger, he'll gain back very quickly. The only way to mess this up is to go too hard too fast. Okay. So muscle memory is radically effective and amazing, especially in kids. It's wild how kids can build back strength and mobility and function from having a cast on for six months or something like that. It's crazy. So it's just remarkable. The only thing you can do wrong is push too fast. So when he's cleared, you go map starter. After map starter, he'll probably be okay to get back into what he was doing. Map starter is going to feel easy. it's going to feel easy to him or whatever.

1:26:18Adam Schafer:And we're just going to, we're just, we just want to just be, be careful. Build back his stability. Build back stability. It'll come back real quick, dude. And then as far as like size and strength, it's the same thing. We tell everybody, make sure he eats enough, eats high protein with a kid. His age sleep is always a big challenge because they want to stay up on their, on their devices or whatever. So it's like, now go to bed at the same time, wake up at the same time every day. Don't do the thing where you go to bed super late Friday. And you sleep in super late Saturday and jet lag yourself on Monday type of deal.

1:26:49Adam Schafer:And that's pretty much it, dude. There's really nothing crazy or crazy advice considering his healing is just good.

1:26:58Justin Andrews:Honestly, there's two kind of levers to pull with this. And there's intensity and there's volume. And I would lean more towards the volume in the practice of the lifts, mainly because of that intracranial pressure and just that intensity of him like squeezing and his output, I would be a little bit concerned with that just, you know, to be on the cautious side and have him really kind of, you know, work through these movements, get that muscle contracting again, and just kind of be in his body again for a bit. So to starter and then maybe even like moving into 15.

1:27:35Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I go starter and then 15 after that. He'll be fine though by the time he gets to 15 because that starter's long enough that he's in intensity-wise he should be okay. And then just really prioritize. Kids, probably the hardest thing I think for young kids is the diet. Yep. Is consistently hitting protein, you know. And, like, I'm okay with, you know, some junk calories or bad calories so long as we hit our protein first. And so that would be kind of the message I would be constantly drilling in is, you know.

1:28:04Justin Andrews:You can really focus on his food.

1:28:05Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I'm not worried about eating, you know, extra stuff here and there because he's probably going to be burning a lot with everything he's doing. But what they tend to do is not hit protein and then over consume on sugar and other shit like that that's just not going to help them build. And so keeping him consistent with that, with all the stuff he's doing, lifting-wise and training, like he'll build muscle. But that's the part that they struggle with. They struggle with consistently hitting their protein intake.

1:28:32Adam Schafer:The game changer with teenagers is breakfast. Yes. Yeah, that's the big hack, dude. Yeah, you get him to eat 30, 40 grams of protein, his size, for breakfast. The rest is easy. He misses breakfast or skips breakfast or rushes out to go to school. Then it's an uphill battle. Breakfast is the key.

1:28:53Justin Andrews:Yeah, nutrition's been the big thing. He's not a big eater.

1:28:58Adam Schafer:Always.

1:28:59Justin Andrews:He's the one I have to remind to eat. So, yeah, what would you guys say if I was to give him a number calorie-wise? I wouldn't focus on the calories.

1:29:09Sal Di Stefano:I'd focus on the protein. Yeah. Have him hit 100, 120 grams of protein a day. Yeah. Had him hit the, hit the protein and then let him eat whatever he wants on top of that. So it's like, I don't give, I don't give a shit if he's having ice cream here and there. I don't care about the burgers and the fries, but hit his protein and take first. And the guys are right. Like what will, what will make it really difficult if he's a breakfast skipper or a bowl of cereal guy in the morning and he goes off because that's just a bunch of carbs and sugar and he's not getting high protein.

1:29:34Adam Schafer:The quick breakfast stuff is, yeah. Do you wake up with him and take him to school in the morning? Or is that mom? Who does that with him?

1:29:39Justin Andrews:Yeah. So we homeschool. So I'm usually already out of the house. So which makes the sleep part easy because they kind of can work on their own schedule. So he's good about getting his, you know, eight to 10 hours of sleep.

1:29:51Adam Schafer:Yeah. Okay. So this is good. So cook breakfast and it's good family time too.

1:29:55Sal Di Stefano:Well, even if you don't cook, I don't know if you hear me give the advice all the time. I love the cook a big dinner. and then that breakfast is literally the leftovers with the two, three eggs cracked over it.

1:30:05Justin Andrews:Like that's a go-to move.

1:30:08Sal Di Stefano:Like I'm sure like you guys, I mean, most people are consistent with like the dinnertime, family dinner, cooking or whatever like that. And if you have, you know, ground beef, steak, chicken, whatever it is, and rice, sweet potatoes, regular potato, you just literally portion that out for the morning, reheat that and throw two or three eggs on top of it. And you got yourself a 50 gram, you know, high protein, great breakfast for him. starting that him off on the right track like that makes the rest of the day pretty easy

1:30:35Justin Andrews:okay awesome that's um i mean i'll share this with him because i know he needs to hear from somebody other than dad he's probably heard the message from dad a little too often so of course

1:30:46Sal Di Stefano:and a good target for him is like 100 150 pounds or 150 grams of protein is a good target if he misses that he's good yeah shooting for 150 if he's shooting for 150 and he falls short to 110 he'll be 120 he'll be fine yep but shoot for 150 grams of protein uh will be a good target for him

1:31:05Justin Andrews:to go after totally okay great thank you cool you got it man i'm gonna send you starter okay thank you guys so much for what you do we uh love listening to you guys and uh it's a it's just great to be able to talk to you face to face and and to share this with my son and it's been a big kind of real wind of the last two months. I bet. Cool step in just getting better. I'd love to hear back after you guys

1:31:31Sal Di Stefano:go through this whole process. Let's hear if he sticks with it. Email back in so we know how he's doing.

1:31:37Justin Andrews:Awesome. Thanks, man. Ooh, that's scary.

1:31:42Adam Schafer:That hits me a bit. Oh, boy, that's scary. I mean, full recovery, that's wonderful. But that is terrifying. With kids, it's breakfast. They don't want to eat in the morning.

1:31:52Sal Di Stefano:I mean, shit, that's everybody, but you're right. Kids especially. They don't want to eat. Skip or you have cereal.

1:31:58Adam Schafer:Yeah, dude. What we do at home, now we have a little bit of an advantage because we also homeschool, so we're not like rushed because that's when it gets real tough. And most schools start so damn early that getting your kid up and then getting them to eat, it's like, I don't want to eat, right? We do that every day. But with the little one, because my daughter's hard, so she's 16, she goes to high school. And so we've just, what I've done with her is I've gotten to the high protein yogurts and she'll throw granola in there and it's like a compromise right but at least she's getting the

1:32:23Sal Di Stefano:protein but it's not a bad compromise though that's a solid you get those ones with 15 20 grams

1:32:28Adam Schafer:in it like i get the 20 the 30 gram one yeah now it's and it's it's definitely better than nothing and thank god my daughter's like she's playing sports so she's all about it but like with the little ones uh breakfast is family time and so it's like we got the break we don't have to rush it we're gonna sit together if i'm not there because i'm at work my wife does it with them and we make sure they get it. But that's the hack because you skip breakfast. You're trying to get 120 grams of protein. Trying to make that up is real difficult. Which doesn't sound like a ton, but if he misses breakfast, now you're going to have 60 grams for lunch and dinner.

1:33:00Sal Di Stefano:Let's be honest, school lunch type settings is like a sandwich. It's not available. It's like 10 grams of protein. Yeah.

1:33:06Justin Andrews:Our next caller is Evan from Indiana. What's up, Evan? What's happening? Hey, how's it going? Good, dude. How you doing? Doing all right. I'll just get into my question then. So I've got like a lingering question about nutrition. I have been vegan for six years. And my question mainly is around like nutrition regarding protein. I guess specifically what I understand to be like complete and incomplete, like protein sources from plant-based foods. So, you know, for reference, I'll try to hit 210 grams of protein per day. And I'm pretty consistent with that. It's not too big a deal. But while I'm tracking that, for example, if I eat a bowl of rice and beans and then protein on top of that, the rice and the beans have protein in it that counts towards the total, that kind of thing.

1:34:02Justin Andrews:And so my question is like, you know, how much does it matter that the protein source that I'm eating has is like a complete protein or not to hit that target?

1:34:15Adam Schafer:Good question, dude. I have some more questions for you. Do you supplement? Do you take any supplements?

1:34:21Justin Andrews:I take protein powder to help out with that. Usually like one in the morning. Some of the foods that I make will have like protein powder included in them, both to complement the amino acid profile, but also just bump the protein of whatever I'm making. Aside from that, I'll take creatine and then just vitamins and stuff.

1:34:43Adam Schafer:What kind of vitamins you taking?

1:34:45Justin Andrews:uh multi b12 uh omega-3 eeas um i think so a little bit i think it has dha and uh the other

1:34:58Adam Schafer:one okay good good good so so and you said you're hitting about 210 grams of total protein a day and how much you weigh uh right now i'm about 192 okay so so protein quality matters more when you're When the protein is below a certain threshold, you're probably beyond that threshold. So you're okay. In other words, the total amino acids you're consuming are okay. Now you could try getting up to 230, 240 grams of protein to see if you notice a difference. But if the protein is high, then what we start to see with protein quality is it doesn't make that big of a difference anymore. Now, if your protein is like 150, then it definitely makes a difference.

1:35:43Adam Schafer:The only caveat is sometimes really high intake of vegan proteins because they tend to come along with fiber and other things and just quantity. Sometimes people see gastric distress. But if your digestion is okay, then you're probably okay. And you could try bumping it to see if you notice a difference. And so what you'll notice is like more strength, better recovery type of deal. But I do have some other questions around diet, if that's okay.

1:36:14Justin Andrews:Sure.

1:36:15Adam Schafer:Yeah. So what is your, what's the reason for going vegan? Is this a moral thing for you? Like because you don't want animals to be hurt type of deal or?

1:36:23Justin Andrews:Yeah, basically. Okay.

1:36:25Adam Schafer:That's good. That's fine. Totally fine. If you were doing it for health, if you're like, hey, I want to do it for health or whatever, then we would talk a little bit about the value of eating meat. so meat is off the table for you or what about eggs? Are eggs off the table?

1:36:38Justin Andrews:Off the table, strictly vegan.

1:36:40Adam Schafer:Strictly, okay, we're fine then. You could bump your protein and I don't know, how many grams of creatine do you take a day?

1:36:47Justin Andrews:Five, I was taking 10 but when I did that in one dose I noticed it hurt my stomach so I bumped it down to five. You can just break it up throughout the day.

1:36:56Adam Schafer:I would take 15 grams of creatine a day but I'd take five with breakfast, five with lunch, five with dinner. benefits yeah my vegan clients got remarkable benefits from taking 10 to 15 grams of creatine but you got to divide it up all at once and you'll get gastric distress okay people but he's if you're

1:37:15Sal Di Stefano:if you're hitting that that number with ea's you're gonna be he's gonna be fine yeah yeah yeah so if you don't if you're not consistently taking ea's consistently take ea's with uh your meals

1:37:26Adam Schafer:you could try that and that'll help yeah some capsules like kion makes a really good essential amino acid supplement that's also vegan. And what you would do is you would add like five capsules per meal, which essentially boosts the, what they would label as the protein, uh, you know, quality, uh, essentially. Um, and you could try that as well. I've had, you know, clients do that who are vegan, who also got a good results from that. What are your total calories at?

1:37:51Justin Andrews:Right now I'm sitting around 3 ,400. Wow.

1:37:55Adam Schafer:Oh yeah. You're doing good, dude. You're doing all right. And how's your strength training?

1:37:58Justin Andrews:It's going pretty good. I've been doing the 15 advanced, just starting another round of that after taking a week off. Okay, perfect. After finishing the last and it's been going great. I think it's started. I've tracked on and off just because of consistency in life and all that stuff for the past few years. And I started, I think, around 2 ,700 just because that's been a starting point for me in the past. Then I went to 3 ,100 and then been sitting at 3 ,400 for, I don't know, probably six weeks now. That's great.

1:38:30Adam Schafer:And then you get things like iron tested. Yeah. Yeah. Blood barks.

1:38:35Justin Andrews:All good.

1:38:36Adam Schafer:Beautiful. And then with your B vitamins, something you might want to try are methylated B vitamins. Okay. Sometimes people in general do better with the methylated version. It's a brand that carries that. I mean, I don't know a good brand. I mean, you could just look it up. You just look up methylated B complex. um i had a vegan client once where we were she kind of had low energy but everything else looked good couldn't really figure it out she was taking b vitamins we switched to methylated b and it was like a light switch so just something you can experiment they're inexpensive if you're already taking b vitamins you could just go methylated um and see if you notice a difference but otherwise you're doing everything great dude yeah how long you've been following mass programs are you have

1:39:14Justin Andrews:you been doing them for a while or just get started on them uh off and on for most of the time that i've been consistently strength training i did anabolic back in i think 23 um and then you know we had our son in early 24 so it's been hard to be consistent with that which is what's nice

1:39:32Sal Di Stefano:about the uh 15 program oh cool yeah cool yeah you're doing otherwise you're doing good bro yeah

1:39:37Justin Andrews:doing real good well cool i appreciate it hey can i send you a program you're following 15 do you have the other 15 other version uh no just the uh advanced the regular like 15 and 15

1:39:51Adam Schafer:advanced what do you want you want 15 power lift we have 15 performance um i saw actually i've been

1:39:57Justin Andrews:i was thinking about like you know something related to symmetry and i went on your website and i saw that there's a 15 symmetry we'll send that to you bro yeah we'll send it over you got it oh well cool appreciate it yeah you got it man thanks awesome thanks guys take it easy man

1:40:11Adam Schafer:I had a client once so my vegan clients were challenging because and he's doing it but it was challenging and enough protein without getting so much other stuff and then we would supplement

1:40:25Justin Andrews:yeah he's definitely supplementing

1:40:27Adam Schafer:because nutrient deficiencies tend to be higher when you have comparable balanced diets in vegan diets so we would do multivitamin and I had this one woman and I'll never forget and there's only one because I had other vegan clients and when they did when they followed the protocols, everybody turned out okay. But there's one woman I had, I'll never forget. We did everything, bro. We did everything. We had the supplements. She was taking the creatine. She was hitting protein, using protein powder. And she just had this lingering, like low energy. She'd have these kind of symptoms that look like nutrients.

1:40:58Adam Schafer:Couldn't figure it out. And convinced, finally, me and a functional medicine practitioner convinced her to eat eggs. And it was like - Cholesterol, you think? I think it was it had to be either the choline or something and this is my guess and I've heard of other cases like this from functional medicine practitioners where they're like look I've had some vegan clients where we had to sit down and say you gotta throw in some meat

1:41:22Justin Andrews:eggs is usually like a gateway bro it was

1:41:25Adam Schafer:it was like night and day dude she started eating eggs and it was like I gave her steroids it was like boom she's like oh my god I feel so good and I'm like and the conversation the conversation was like this dude cause she was very much about animal welfare which uh that's the only vegans that stick to it, by the way. So I asked him. And I said to her, I said, look, I know this is real important to you. I said, but the animal you have to place at the top because otherwise you're not able to be a good in this world is you. And so she gave in, ate some eggs and it was like a light bulb went off and she just, she felt so much better.

1:41:57Adam Schafer:But there's only one, only one client that ever happened with. Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram, Mind Pump Media.

1:42:02Justin Andrews:Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

1:42:43Justin Andrews:The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.