2850: Our Biggest Workout Programming Realization in the Past 10 Years

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1:42Adam Schafer:You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today, we're going to talk about one of the biggest workout programming breakthroughs we've had here at Mind Pump over the last five years. By the way, for this episode, this is what we're doing, something special. Buy any MAPS 15 style program. MAPS 15, MAPS 15 Performance, or Muscle Mommy, or MAPS 15 Strong, or Symmetry, or 40 Plus, or Powerlift. Any MAPS 15 version program, get one free. Go to maps15bogo.com to get that. Now, this episode is brought to you by our sponsor, Element. So Element is an electrolyte powder.

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3:01Adam Schafer:You can get a free sample pack of their most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase. All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com? I'm talking right now hit pause head on over to mindpumpstore.com that's it enjoy the rest of the show we've been creating workouts for over 25 years we're experts in workout programming strength training in particular we're going to talk about the biggest workout programming breakthrough we've seen in the last 5 years maybe even the last 10 we're going to break it down right now and this applies for most people let's get into it 25 years just hit me hard I'm so stuck on that right now a quarter of a century you know what it made me think there's somebody made a some

3:52Sal Di Stefano:somebody made a comment on uh i don't know what video you did it was it was it was one of the ones on mind pump media and they like some trainer was like criticizing whatever it was that you said and i like i just happened to be on there and saw it so i can't help myself i click on the profile who's this guy yeah he's 21 years old like you don't know anything that's like dude been writing programs and helping people out longer than you've been alive yeah sit this one out yeah that's why i didn't even comment back i was like i'm not gonna come back dude stop it dude well we thought we knew a lot you know so i think for people listening like

4:28Adam Schafer:like workout programming uh is a term that covers um everything that goes into making a workout so the exercises the sets the reps the schedule um the rest periods that's that's what programming is. So what good coaches or, or, or trainers will do or understand is how to put those all together, uh, to create a really effective workout. And there's definitely a lot of science and experience involved. And then you also have to piece in, uh, the challenges that most people encounter when it comes to things that consistency, what they tend to do, what they don't tend to do. When you put that all together, uh, there are periods of time, uh, that, that a trainer will start to have these kind of breakthroughs like oh you know what this works better than this yeah uh for for these reasons well there's trends that you notice and especially what's working best with your clients and uh where that sweet spot kind of lies or like whatever advice you gave that like was so impactful like those are the things you really pay attention to simplicity

5:30Sal Di Stefano:i really feel like figuring out how to simplify uh for my clients like distill down to the biggest rocks in regards to nutrition the biggest rocks in regards to stress the biggest rocks in regards to exercise and it's like i of course i could sit down with a client and map out this crazy diet workout routine and plan like that's ideal and all in fact i was just sitting with my sister-in-law we're sitting in the sauna and she's asking me like you know if you were to lay out like the perfect plan it's like okay well if i had the perfect i'm including sauna in there and cold plunge and you know a little bit of hit cardio and like all this stuff and i'm just like but that's not how i ever coached anybody or it certainly isn't as i got better you know maybe early on in my days where someone asked that i might i might throw in the whole kitchen thing on them but what i learned to do uh and i think the direction you're going with this is like figured out like what what is the least i can get this person to do to elicit the most amount of

6:33Adam Schafer:effective. So an example of this is like, is there one exercise that does the work of the next five, right? This is a good example. Like a barbell squat would be an example of that. It's like such an effective exercise and it would do more for someone's lower body development than a leg extension, a leg curl, a hip abduction, a hip adduction, a leg press, all that. Right. Yeah. So that's just a good example of workout programming. And that's important because we want to maximize the benefit with minimal amount of time because that makes a big difference when it comes to consistency. I think in the last five years, this is very easy for me to pick out what the biggest breakthrough.

7:12And by the way, five years ago, we had already had two decades of experience.

7:17Adam Schafer:So we weren't beginners by any stretch of the imagination, but roughly five years, maybe less than five years ago, maybe three years ago, we came out with a 15 minute a day protocol, which, uh, breaks up all of the total training and takes it away from, let's say two days a week and makes it kind of a daily thing, but with a really short, um, amount of time needed. And, uh, this makes sense for a lot of different reasons, but I'm just going to go through what people have experienced with this kind of workout programming, the best results that they've ever had and the best consistency that they've ever had.

7:55Adam Schafer:Um, and it's, there's a lot of different reasons for this, but let's go down to the total amount of, let's start with this. How much strength training do you need to elicit about 80 % of the total amount of, or the best possible results you could get, or the upper limit of results you get from strength training? Not a lot. Not a lot. About two days a week. About two days a week, maybe three days a week for some people of like training the whole body will give you most of the results you could ever anticipate. Now what that doesn't mean is that your results will come at 80 % of the speed. That's not what I'm talking about.

8:31Adam Schafer:What I mean is you'll get the results with the same speed, but the limit is about 80%. And then beyond that, you might need more than what I'm saying. And for most people, 80 % of their potential is more than what they want. I just think it's hard for people to fathom that. That's really, if you can limit it down to like two times a week like that just doesn't seem like enough you know to really move but it really is substantial if you if you put a good uh compound lift kind of schedule up there and you're you're effective with your choices um and you're hitting all the the muscle groups um you'd be surprised like the and two the the recovery of it is is always overlooked yes so the recovery being more of the emphasis and the muscles being able a lot of amount of time to actually grow and, and change.

9:27This is where all the benefits happen.

9:29Sal Di Stefano:You brought up that we had already been obviously programming and training people for two decades, you know, we're five years into this business and then this epiphany happens or we release a program and then we hear this huge. why like it wasn't a lack of understanding the research like you just pointed out you knew that already we knew that already um what do you think it was that why it worked so well for so many people and um why didn't we come out and why didn't we think of that 10 years ago and it was the first program we did instead of maps anabolic why why did we not go that route yeah so what's your thoughts?

10:10Adam Schafer:So I think, uh, we were probably stuck in the idea that you had to devote 45 minutes or an hour to a workout. And so, um, it's once you're kind of in a box and you don't realize you're in a box, it's hard to come out of it. Um, but, uh, realizing that there's a, there's a few challenges that you have to overcome when it comes to consistency with any workout. And I want to say this, by the way, strength training is special in the sense that there's two values you get from exercise. One is while you're doing the exercise itself, the activity of it, movement is good for you. Being active is good for you.

10:45Adam Schafer:Okay. So what I'm not saying is two days a week or 15 minutes a day is all your activity that you're ever going to do. You're just sitting around the rest of the time. No, no, you should move. You should move throughout the day. Walking is a great way to do this. Walking is great. We've talked about this on many episodes. I won't spend a lot of time here, but people can walk. You don't have to change into workout clothes. People can walk without hurting themselves. It's easy to do. So you should move all day long. So there's the value of movement, but then there's also the value of the adaptation that exercise induces, right?

11:12Adam Schafer:So stretching induces an adaptation where you get more flexible, for example, right? You have a greater range of motion. Strength training induces an adaptation that's building strength and building muscle, which is great because muscle looks good, speeds up your metabolism, improves insulin sensitivity. The metabolism part's really important because now I can eat more and stay leaner. It's very protective. So, uh, we, you, and that's, and this is the key. You don't need a lot to induce the adaptation. Now back to what you're saying, Adam, um, one of the big challenges with, uh, any exercise program is consistency is how do we develop this into a habit and stay consistent?

11:51Adam Schafer:And the big roadblocks to this are, uh, time, um, time and energy. I got to devote all this time to working out. I got to take 45 minutes to an hour. I got to do this whole thing. what i found years ago which i didn't piece this together but what i found years ago uh was it was easier for clients to find 15 minutes a day than it was for them to find 45 minutes twice a week it was just easier for people most people can do 15 minutes a lot easier that's right so in other words 15 minutes six days a week versus 45 minutes twice a week most people carve that out uh can carve that out in a much more consistent way and if they miss one it's 15 minutes if they miss a 45 minute workout it's a whole workout that they miss so i think that was the big i think that was the big one adam was uh getting stuck in that idea that you had to go to the gym and spend you know this this time there you don't need an elaborate setup either it's like these two uh simplified exercises that you're focused on and i think that alleviates a lot of the stress going in because Sometimes even just the stress of having to get there, having to run through this hour-long workout session can be a deterrent for people on its own.

13:06So to have that kind of chunked out throughout the week and it's just my whole day. I could find that 15 minutes and I could just attack it when I can.

13:14Adam Schafer:To give you an example, two strength training workouts a week typically looks like about five exercises each workout. Generally speaking, you're looking at about five exercises each workout. two exercises a day uh five days a week is the same amount of exercises it's just spread out and it takes way less uh time uh dedicated so again rather than devoting all this time twice a week it's just i do two exercises and it just works so i don't know if i agree i i think

13:46Sal Di Stefano:we have a better understanding of who our audience is now i think that like for example

13:54Adam Schafer:who would uh maps 15 not be for yeah hardcore like bodybuilder type or just yeah super consistent

14:02Sal Di Stefano:right they're see their great results they're in tip-top shape they're working out in the gym

14:08Adam Schafer:four days a week higher volume right never okay never miss a day okay because here's here there's

14:13Sal Di Stefano:there's a few i've seen a few comments here and there um you know we've lost a few of those people with maps 15 right oh and i've even seen some of the comments oh the guys have gone so this direction with so low volume and it's and what we've always said kind of like off air to each other it's like it's not for you yeah you know i'm saying like what we have programs for you yeah exactly we have we have programs for you maps aesthetics is that way map split is that way you know maps anabolic advanced is that we have plenty of programs that serve that community let's go but i think yeah really if you get crazy you think that's still not right uh but i think what has happened is i think we have a greater understanding of the community that we're serving i think that I also think, too, something that I became more aware of the longer we did this was far more people have at-home gyms than I would have guessed when we first started this.

15:00Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. At least basic home gyms. Did COVID really kind of change that? And I think that happened. I think COVID obviously played a role in that, too. But we have a lot of people. I mean, what's the number one request when a program is? Do you have an at-home version? Yeah, at-home version. Right. We've had to go back and redo that. We have a very large audience. And I think it splits in the two that really appeal to MAPS 15. One, the people that haven't been really consistent for a really long time and are looking for something that is more realistic for their life so they could do that, that you kind of addressed already.

15:29Sal Di Stefano:Then I think there's an other side of a lot of people that I think I would agree that I even fall into this category, which is when I remember I did the first time we did Mass 15, I was like, oh, shit. I've been doing more than I need to be doing to be seeing incredible results. Well, I'd argue even the high-volume people would have the best results I've ever had. So that's where I'm going. deadlift so that's where i'm going with this and i think then the other part of the audience is the people that go like man maybe i am one of those people that have been like overdoing the volume and then they went did mass 15 went holy shit this was incredible the only people that missed the mark on are literally the people that are like i've got my routine i train five days a week i train a lot of volume i'm in the greatest shape of my life i've been consistent for two years it's like you they don't need to change you don't want to really mess with somebody who's like that right right but it caught everybody else on the edges i think and that's and i think that has a point i think that has more to do because i don't think any of this was like revolutionary for us we knew when we were the way you started this podcast when i was training a client later on of course early on well we all admitted that we weren't the greatest trainers but i started to realize like man if i could just get my client to do this and that it was one or two things consistently, I'm going to show them incredible change and they'll be bought in.

16:47Sal Di Stefano:And so Max 15 is, is that to me, it's that, man, I just want you to do these two exercises a day. That's it. Carve it, get out, get over there. And even if you have to, if you have an at home gym, bring it up throughout the day, go five minutes here, then five minutes. It falls right in line with our nutrition advice. Yes, exactly. Falls right in line with the just habit stacking. I mean, you're, and you're, introducing things very gradually to build up momentum and what a better momentum builder than just to do a few exercises you know frequently and this sounds point he made earlier is that you will get 80 of the ultimate physique that you can imagine yourself in yeah so you're not going backwards yes which is way beyond anybody like most clients when the average person you

17:29Adam Schafer:show them what their potential what 80 of their potential yeah looks like and they're like whoa that's even better than I would ever imagine. Yeah, when they first sign up with you,

17:36Sal Di Stefano:they don't even expect that. They'd say, yeah, they go.

17:39Adam Schafer:Yeah, I want to lose 10 pounds. Yeah, yeah.

17:41Sal Di Stefano:And you go like, well, we could do whatever you want. I mean, it's like, they're like, oh, come on, I'm 40-something years old. I don't know. Like, no, we could do whatever you want. It's whether you're willing to put the work in or not. So to know that you're like, I can get to 80 % of my max potential through training this way is just like.

17:57Adam Schafer:Well, to your point, when we first were coming out with this kind of programming, I experimented with it and in a very short time it hit. In my 40s, a deadlift PR. It's one of my strongest lifts. And I deadlifted 605 pounds following a protocol like this, which tells me I'd been doing too much. I'd just been doing too much. It's so funny. A study just came out that compared two groups of people. These were well-trained athletes. So these were experienced lifters. One group included a deload week. about every cycle. The other group didn't. The deload week group had 29 % better gains. Wow. Wow. 29 % better gains.

18:39Adam Schafer:Huge difference. And by the way, what we're talking about is we're talking about real strength training because there are -

18:45Sal Di Stefano:Well, you remember that other study that you've talked about that where the group that skipped a week every week for like - That's the same results? Yeah, got the same results as the people that trained every single week consistently.

18:54Adam Schafer:That's what strength training is. That's just how it works. It sends a signal. Let your body adapt. Now, you should be active every single day. But when it comes to strength training, you would be shocked. I was shocked when I applied this little bit of training and how well my body responded. Another point I want to make is that this is traditional strength training. Because there are other marketed programs that are like 15-minute workouts. Yeah, they're like hit. And they're like trying to beat the crap out of you. It's like a circuit. They fit an hour workout in 15 minutes. Like the reason why it works is because you're dead.

19:28Adam Schafer:But you're killing yourself for 15 minutes.

19:30Sal Di Stefano:It just brought back P90X.