2851: The Real Reason You Can't Stay Consistent (It's Not Motivation)

16:58Adam Schafer:It's so powerful. I've seen this as a trainer. I see it like in real time. You have a client come in in a bad mood, they leave in a good mood. I've also seen it over time. I've actually had a few clients who referred to me. at one point I trained a couple of mental health experts or practitioners and they sent me some of their patients and you know you could tell when they'd come in you could tell that they struggle with certain things one of them was a young man one of them was an older gentleman and over the course of months the transformation their mental health was radical one guy was so bad that when he came in I had a small studio so I had the flexibility to be able to do this we would schedule him when there weren't other trainers in the studio because it had to be no music and we had to have the lights down he was really sensitive to stimulus it would actually set him off with anxiety and stuff so we turn the lights down no music by the end of our i mean towards i don't remember how long it was i trained him it was months so maybe six months nine months music on lights on other people total transformation there was no difference in his medication there was no difference in his therapy it was all from extra and he told me this he's like nothing has really impacted me like exercise.

18:12Adam Schafer:That's just a personal example. So when it comes to mental health, it's so powerful that being sedentary is a risk factor for anxiety and depression. So this is how powerful it is. If you don't move, your risk of depression, anxiety skyrocket. So probably one of the most powerful things it does.

18:32Justin Andrews:So do they factor in like, obviously it's going to get you out of this like cognitive loop that you're in where you're just like continually thinking about the same thing and now you're in body more and so now you're kind of connected more to the movement aspect but also don't you get like natural rewards chemically from yeah working out as well yeah you get feel

18:52Adam Schafer:good chemicals but when you get feel when you produce feel good chemicals from chemical stimulation or something that doesn't require work you get a negative feedback loop right so What they're showing the data is if I take a drug to produce these good feelings, or if I do something that's like eat something hyperpalatable, or if somebody watches pornography or things like that that tend to cause this dopamine, because there's no hard work that led to it, you get the negative feedback. When there's work that's involved or effort that's involved with the positive reward, it actually compounds over time.

19:31Adam Schafer:It's pretty remarkable. and exercise uh produces that and again i'll speak to myself this is the number one reason why uh i enjoy it there's i enjoy it for lots of different reasons but for me it's like nothing there's almost nothing that can that i can do that i know will have uh such a consistent always gets

19:49Justin Andrews:me out of a rut totally yeah i'm just like i just need to go work out i mean i feel like uh show me

19:53Sal Di Stefano:a relationship that's struggling right a couple that's struggling and i'll show you a relationship that lacks sex and exercise. I'm serious. I feel like those two things like are so important to like - Just your own mental health and the connection.

20:07Justin Andrews:A lot bigger of a factor than a lot of people think. Huge.

20:09Sal Di Stefano:I mean, Katrina and I, we laugh and joke about this. Like if two or three days that goes in a row of one of those two missing in the relationship, it's like there's a different vibe in the house. Courtney has a barometer.

20:24Justin Andrews:She's like, oh, it's been three days. Yes. It's like - Like, yes.

20:28Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, it's like there is a different vibe and energy in the house if we've had a couple of those days get strung together of one or both. Both of those is like you're set up for a fight. You know what I'm saying? You're in a bad mood. Yeah, exactly. You just know one of us is going to be in a crabby mood or both. It's just like wild how important those two things, exercising our body like that and that physical touch and connection with your partner. It's like they both, I think, and I think it has a lot to do with, like you're saying, is that you get this incredible endorphins and chemical response without the negative feedback like a drug would.

21:04Sal Di Stefano:And a lot of those people that aren't getting that are self-medicating to try and chase that feeling, but then it has a negative feedback loop. Yes, yes, yes.

21:13Adam Schafer:All right, next up is physical health, and you can put in there things like strength, lack of pain, like taking care of my body physically, which is different than appearance, which we'll get to. So this is in aesthetics. This is people saying, I like the way it makes my body feel. This one becomes, there's two types of people that this becomes really profound to. One is the person, it could be a young person even, that's so sedentary. They don't even know how crappy they feel. Then they start working out, getting stronger, and they physically feel different in their bodies. The other one, which is the more common one, is older population.

21:51Adam Schafer:They feel and see this so much. And then this becomes so valuable to them because, you know, when you're 60, you've probably had some years of not feeling good or hurting. Or you've noticed some abilities that you're now lacking. You can't necessarily run with your grandkids like you could with your kids or you can't do certain things like you used to. Then you start working out and you're like, oh, my gosh, I could go up the stairs without huffing and puffing. And I'm doing things and I got energy.

22:18Justin Andrews:you know it's amazing what when you're in a state of pain um chronic pain like what that does to your mood and the way that you think and your outlook on everything and to to be able to resolve that uh physically i think it just opens up this whole new potential for a lot of people i mean i

22:36Sal Di Stefano:would argue this is uh everybody over 40 yeah i mean i don't think i've ever met somebody majority for sure uh over the age of 40 who doesn't say that exercise makes me feel better and that's a big motivator for sure the aesthetics like you said uh we'll get to that yeah is is one and attached to that but i'd say that most people over 40 i mean it's like it's what keeps me going for sure it's like the uh the aesthetic side is nice but the uh it's like if i don't low back pain starts bothering me my hips start talking it's just i start feeling all that stuff like that and so just making sure that i'm training consistently keeps all of that stuff at bay and i mean i feel

23:18Adam Schafer:like that's everything as you get older it is and uh if you were to if we had to like find an actual fountain of youth which doesn't exist the closest we could get uh would be physical fitness yeah it's uh it's so powerful and i always like to paint this picture of someone who's listening uh you If I show you a 20-year-old that works out and one that doesn't, there's a difference between the two for sure. There's a difference in the way they move. There's a difference in their abilities and all that stuff. You give me a 60-year-old that's fit versus a 60-year-old that isn't, like your typical 60-year-old versus a 60-year-old that's been working out for a long time, they're not even in the same universe.

23:56Adam Schafer:It's like they're two different species. It's so different. It's radically different with their abilities, their energy, their lack of pain. this for me was a big one as a trainer because I uh towards the end as I trained lots of medical professionals they would send me their patients a lot of their patients were in that age group the older age group and when I would show them pain relief it was like uh I'm done I'm doing this forever a whole new person I've been my back has always hurt it's always been hurt it's been hurt for years I thought I just had a bad back and I've been working out with you for two months and my back doesn't hurt anymore what is going on here I'm like well it's just it's literally lack of strength, lack of stability, the right exercises solved your chronic back pain, and it totally sold them.

24:37Adam Schafer:Next up is the aesthetic. That's number four? Yeah, that's just how people look. Now, I'll say this. It's interesting because that's probably the number one

24:46Sal Di Stefano:reason why most people show up.

24:48Adam Schafer:That's right. And I think of all the ones that we're going to talk about, because there's a fifth one, too, we'll get to, this one's actually the least effective or least important because you can only improve upon the way you look. for so long and or so subjective and you tend to compare yourself to other people so this one's really sketchy yeah uh with where uh you could go and if in most people here's the problem with the one that we're talking about right now most people place all the value on how they look and it is not a strong enough motivator or strong enough relationship builder to keep you working out

25:22Sal Di Stefano:forever by itself well and i think uh we all have a form of perception drift right we talked about this with the the face lifts and surgeons with that and anybody who's been working out long enough that's been chasing the aesthetic side would attest to this which is when you first started you probably said things like oh if i just look like this or my arms were this size or i weighed this much or i was this body fat and then you get there and what happens yeah more yeah i need another inch on my arm i got this part of my body yeah that part of my body And so it's this never-ending goalpost that you keep moving.

26:01Adam Schafer:I'll just remind people, the reason why we think people look good when they're fit is because it's actually a signal towards health and vitality. So it's actually a side effect. It's never the main effect. It was never meant to be the main effect of good health and fitness. It was meant to be a signal that points to better health, better mobility, better vitality. Right, right. So last, and I think this one's playing a bigger role. And I've talked about this on the last couple podcasts.

26:26Sal Di Stefano:What is this? Can we guess this, Justin? Well, all the things.

26:30Justin Andrews:Yeah, because you already did aesthetics.

26:32Sal Di Stefano:You did cognitive stuff. It's like why people keep showing up to their gym. Is it relationships? Yeah. Community. Oh, community. Community. Of course we should get that.

26:39Adam Schafer:This one's huge. I think the fitness industry missed this one. But now it's starting to realize how powerful this is. Yeah. gyms and fitness facilities can do a really good job of attracting people they've figured out how to attract people they suck at keeping people this has been a problem in the fitness industry forever how do we keep people the gyms that keep people are the ones that have culture and community

27:02Sal Di Stefano:yeah real good culture nobody leaves but the question is though sal is it really in their best entrance for that what do you mean to keep yeah not if you're charging 20 bucks a model

27:10Adam Schafer:That's right.

27:11Sal Di Stefano:Well, even at, say, the 150 or higher end, I bet you if you looked at Lifetime Fitness or Equinox, if every member showed up, they couldn't. The fire marshal would call on them too. Capacity. So almost all gyms, okay, besides boutique ones that have limited spots, are actually designed that we want you to kind of show up, but not really. Well, we don't want you to be that hardcore.

27:38Adam Schafer:Well, what they're doing, Adam, because I've been looking this up recently because we have trainers and coaches. And in the back of my mind, I always want to own a gym, even though it's not. I know you're going to get pissed off, but it's not this big moneymaker.

27:50Sal Di Stefano:No, I know. But we all want to do that.

27:52Adam Schafer:I look at the data.

27:53Sal Di Stefano:I want to own a bar, too.

27:53Adam Schafer:And I'm studying the data. And you know what these gyms do? These gyms that are, like you just said, these really nice gyms that charge a lot? Yeah. They make a lot of money on the community stuff that's in the gym. So you have a membership. But then people spend money on eating lunch there. Yeah. They spend money on the massage. merchandise they spend money on the extras the community stuff yeah the pool where they can hang out with the other people so it's community and what's happening is gen z gen z is wanting this and i think it's probably because of lack of connections for the younger generation for sure

28:25Sal Di Stefano:i mean one of the biggest complaints when you talk to a younger person is who is i just i was just talking to someone about this how hard it is to date and meet people social outlets yeah It's very minimal.

28:36Adam Schafer:You know that Gen Z now ranks the gym as the number one place to be social. It makes sense. It replaced bars. It replaced everything.

28:43Sal Di Stefano:And you also have a nice bias by going there. If you go to a bar to find somebody, everyone's getting – You don't know what you're getting. Getting effed up. Yeah, it is. It's a mixed bag there. You know what I'm saying? There might be someone there that's drinking. One thing you know is everyone's there to drink. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, which could be for all the wrong reasons. If you're there too long. Maybe some good reason, but it's like it is definitely a roll of the dice. And you go to the gym, everybody in there is growth-minded. They're trying to. In somewhat of an aspect. That's right.

29:14Sal Di Stefano:In some aspect of – like they want to improve themselves. And that's a solid – That's a better group. That's a solid quality to find. It doesn't mean that you meet the perfect person, but it's – I'd say, would you not argue that one of the major attributes to having a successful marriage is having a partner who is equally focused on growth? growth minded at least hey listen what's the number one reason

29:38Adam Schafer:why we all liked working in gyms it was the culture it's that culture people are coming in and they're choosing to voluntarily self improve I do believe you're right

29:48Sal Di Stefano:the model is going to be these high end 150 to 250 or small places

29:55Justin Andrews:and you see how they're incorporating your peptide and your hormone therapy and cryotherapy a lot of these add on

30:04Sal Di Stefano:Work spaces too because a lot of people can work remotely. And I think having – I mean, I would love to have – the Bay Area doesn't have a good one. They have one that's kind of like that, but it's not that good.

30:15Adam Schafer:It's – I think it's the future. And I think it's an important focus that gyms are going to start paying attention to because the fitness industry moved away from that. It actually started that way. So gyms used to be very culture dominant. Then it slowly turned into put your headphones on, you're in your own space, do your thing. you like the equipment cool get in get out you don't talk to anybody and i think that's a big mistake fitness fitness don't care i don't care because i go into my thing i leave but most people the community uh and they're finding this now and the data like this is what people want yeah so i think the future of gyms uh is it's already moving in that direction yeah so i got a crazy study for you that's really interesting first off uh do you know so they did there's some studies on aging do You know the easiest way to predict someone's biological age and also their chronological age, but also how old their DNA is or how much their wear and tear is.

31:13Adam Schafer:There's a way you can look at someone. Not just their telomeres? No, no. It's their face. Of all the things on someone, you could predict it. If you had to just pick something to look at, it would be their face. Like how stressed are they? How much is their body actually aging?

31:28Justin Andrews:Face reveals a lot, huh?

31:29Adam Schafer:It does. So they actually did this study where they looked at occupations and ranked them from best to worst in terms of how quickly they were aging based off their face. Wild. Yes. Do you know who is the worst?

31:43Sal Di Stefano:It got to be things like surgeons or ER doctors or high-stress jobs. Scientists and educators. Oh, okay.

31:52Adam Schafer:Scientists and educators. Yeah, I can see educators. By the way, the person who posted this is a longevity scientist. He's like, cool, that's my profession. I'm the worst one. Then it was professionals. Then it was managers, clerical, sales, service workers. Athletes had the best age.

32:09Sal Di Stefano:Because you're playing your dream sport for a living.

32:12Adam Schafer:And you're also just exercising. You're playing. That's interesting. And you're out of your head and whatever.

32:16Sal Di Stefano:That makes me wonder. So I'd love to do Katrina's. I told you guys off air what had happened the other day. So the other day in the gym, she's still floating about it. It's been like two weeks now. Yeah. She's got her headphones on in the gym and they die, but she just leaves them on. And there's two ladies. There's a trainer who's training a client like next to her. Oh, yeah. And they're talking about her and they don't know she can hear. And they're like, that's Adam's wife, you know, with mind pump. You know who that is, right? And they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know this. and she looks over and she's like looking at Katrina she's like figures he would date some girl that's way younger than him she loved that she loved that no she's older than me so I did have a thing a story to set that up by the way it's kind of like a double

33:11Adam Schafer:there's two sides of that it's an insult to me

33:14Sal Di Stefano:it's like saying I'm a shallow person of course he's like some shallow guy that would date so she's all happy about it but I'm like reading it him going like you know it's a bit of an insult to me though right it's kind of like saying that i'm shallow or something like i don't know but um so yeah i did a story the other day teasing her because uh she her stack just came in from vitabella uh just sent her stack of all her yeah her gh take and so i was sharing the stuff that she does for her her routine for her face and stuff like that because she is really good about that and she'll do her morning cream her night cream that has the GHKCU, the NAD, I think glutathione and something else in there.

33:55Sal Di Stefano:There's like an exilic acid or something you might know. I don't know what that is. Yeah, I don't know what it was. I thought you would know. But that stack. And then she's more consistent than I am. She sits in front of the juve light. Right after she gets out, she does - How often is she doing the juve light? Every day. So almost every night after. So our routine, so after she'll do max and bathe him and get him ready, stuff like that, That's when she takes her shower, does her cream stuff, and then she'll sit down right in front of the light right after that. I think she does like 10 or 15 minutes daily.

34:27Sal Di Stefano:So every single night. She might miss a weekend night or something like that when we're doing something.

34:32Adam Schafer:If you use Juve on your face to look younger, you'll notice in a week. Totally. One week.

34:37Justin Andrews:It makes a big difference with Courtney, too. She does it all the time. Oh, big difference.

34:42Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I'm in and out of doing it, and I always notice a difference when I get right back in the routine of doing it. I would say within probably three times of me.

34:49Justin Andrews:I noticed it mainly underneath her eyes. It definitely makes a big difference.

34:54Sal Di Stefano:So, I mean, Katrina, she's also, to the study and to the point you're bringing, I mean, probably one of the most zen people I've ever met in my life. Also stressed, yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't think I've ever seen her stressed out. It's weird. She's married to you. That's why it works. I work with you. It doesn't work on your own. She does not She does not I age working next year I need you Look at our hair color Stop it Stop it Why does Doug keep getting younger then I'm harder on him than anybody He's the furthest She's a vampire She definitely I definitely give her a lot of credit For checking me On a lot of that stuff like that She's always equipped first to think of the most optimistic way to look at every situation.

35:51Sal Di Stefano:And between that and her skincare and her juve light, I think she's hacked into looking younger than me, even though she's older than me. That's so great. That's great.

36:00Adam Schafer:Speaking of attractiveness, they did a study. I don't know why they do studies like this sometimes, but whatever. We'll talk about it. So they did a study on men and women, and they wanted to see how much someone's income would affect their attractiveness.

36:18Sal Di Stefano:For both sexes? For both sexes. Oh, interesting. So I'm more interested in what the guys say about girls. Okay, so they took pictures. I think we all know it the other way around.

36:26Adam Schafer:So they took pictures of women. Okay. And it was just, you just see them. Okay. And then they took pictures of women and put underneath them their salary. Interesting. And then they say they did the same thing with men. Okay. Can I put a picture of their salary? Okay, cool. This is actually a cool study. I mean, I guess. If you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know the obvious. First of all, who do you think responds better to?

36:44Sal Di Stefano:Well, that's obvious. It's obvious. We know that. You talked about this, the evolutionary theory, whatever, that women that saw the increased salary are going to be more attracted to that guy. And we see this all over in society. It's very obvious. So that's nuts. what I'm more interested in is did the guys that saw the girls well yeah did they care at all or and and did they actually look negatively around the higher income women did they become less attractive as they made more money that would be interesting actually made almost no effect

37:17Justin Andrews:zero effect okay yeah well that makes so how attractive is she and then and then boom you

37:22Adam Schafer:see she makes more nothing yeah it had almost no had almost no effect on the guys so I would think

37:28Sal Di Stefano:So if I had to predict, I would have predicted guys would be no effect or slightly negative if it was a lot more than them. Because I could see that. I've seen situations like that. I've seen guys that are intimidated by a girl that makes a lot more money than this.

37:45Adam Schafer:Here's the question I have. I wonder if it's less about being intimidated, because that could very well be the case. I'm just thinking out loud. Or it could be more about knowing that you're less attractive to a woman. because when they look at data, when women make more than men and they're couples, the man, even if he makes a lot of money, he becomes less attractive to her. And the divorce rate actually goes up. So divorce rate's higher. They're immediately going to think less than you. Oh, yeah.

38:10Sal Di Stefano:How high is the divorce rate in a relationship where the woman makes significantly more than men?

38:14Adam Schafer:Well, when the man doesn't work and the woman works, it's a lot higher. So if he's the stay-at-home and she works, the divorce rate goes up. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I wonder if it's that. Like, oh, she might not like me as much. That's kind of factor in. Yeah, I wonder. It could also be intimidation. I mean, those are kind of the same thing.

38:33Sal Di Stefano:It's describing what you're feeling. Yeah, it's kind of the same. It's kind of the same thing. But intimidation implies you're scared. Intimidation, insecure, however you want to say it.

38:40Adam Schafer:Okay, what does that say? Oh, that's not good. Read that, Doug.

38:43Justin Andrews:Yeah, couple where the wife earns more than the husband are generally at a higher risk of divorce. Studies indicating they're 33 % to 50 % more likely to divorce. Wow.

38:54Adam Schafer:Doug, look up how odds increase that a woman will cheat when she's the breadwinner. That's another bad one.

39:02Sal Di Stefano:The rate of infidelity. Well, I imagine she loses a little bit of respect for him.

39:07Adam Schafer:Respect, attractiveness, maybe whatever.

39:12Sal Di Stefano:Lack of respect is similar to contempt, isn't it? Wouldn't they be hand in hand? I think so. So, yeah. So if you lose respect for your man, it's like having contempt. And you remember when we did the great interview with, who was a couple that are like famous for all the psychics?

39:26Adam Schafer:Oh, gosh.

39:27Sal Di Stefano:The number one reason for infidelity or divorce was contempt. And so him not making as much was more likely to lead to contempt. What does that say, Doug?

39:39Justin Andrews:Well, it actually says that women who are the primary breadwinners are least likely to cheat. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, interesting. She's too busy working. She's too busy working.

39:49Sal Di Stefano:That's interesting.

39:49Justin Andrews:Just a stay-at-home dad that's probably interesting.

39:53Sal Di Stefano:Well, men are way higher, more likely, right? Way more. Yeah, look at the odds. Guys are way more, I would imagine.

40:00Adam Schafer:It's not that big of a difference, I think. I think there's a difference.

40:03Sal Di Stefano:No, guys are way higher. Girls are more likely to confide in another man and be like that. Men are more likely to cheat physically like that.

40:12Adam Schafer:Oh, like cheat emotionally?

40:14Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah. She's more likely to have a co-worker she works with that. She shares all her personal stuff with her. just to sleep with them.

40:19Adam Schafer:Do you guys know that if a woman's best friend gets divorced, the odds of her getting divorced go up? Do you guys know that? Really? Yeah, dude. If there's a woman who has a best friend, they're both married, her best friend gets divorced. Like super influenced. Her odds go up.

40:31Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. I would think a guy's would too though.

40:38Sal Di Stefano:Okay, let's take marriage out of the question. I remember when you were a kid. I may be, right? When you were kids, I totally remember like the homie group. You know what I'm saying? When you're all coupled up, it's all good. You're doing a couple things, and then one or two guys are single, and then it's like you're the one guy who's still in a relationship. You're going to get, oh, man, you're going to hang out with your chick again. You get all the pressure to be single.

41:00Adam Schafer:I used to like you when you were single. You were way more fun when you were single. Well, so anyway, so let's go back to the study. Yeah, I feel like that's like early on stuff. So women are 1 ,000 times more sensitive to a man's income when evaluating.

41:13Sal Di Stefano:Whoa, 75 % more likely to divorce, Sal. What? If your best friend divorces. Yeah. Holy cow. Wow. 75%. Wow. That's a big one. That's high.

41:24Justin Andrews:Social contagion is what they call it. Yeah. So both sides, same story.

41:28Sal Di Stefano:Oh, so it is both sexes. Both sexes. Both sexes. Oh.

41:32Adam Schafer:Wow. Well, so did you guys hear what I said, though, about the data? No, no, sorry. Say that again. Women are a thousand times more sensitive to a man's income when evaluating his attractiveness. A thousand. A thousand. A thousand times. That's a big number. That's big. Yeah, you could be like a three, and you make like a million dollars a year, and now you're eight.

41:52Sal Di Stefano:Now, the reverse, you could flip that on its head, too, with the guys. We probably care a thousand times more about physical, right? Probably, yeah.

42:02Adam Schafer:Yeah, yeah. I think so. Yeah. I don't know about a thousand, but definitely more.

42:06Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, well, a lot more, I would think. Yeah. I'm sure there are studies on this where they've asked surveys of guys what's their number one thing, and it's like probably attractiveness is probably top of most people's list for men. Beauty. Yeah, and girls probably say things like humor and a lot of other things, but attractiveness is number one. So I bet we're probably up there with that. So that makes sense. I know. That makes sense. It is. I find the -

42:32Adam Schafer:What machine should I do in the gym to get more girls? Get good at the ATM. That's what I mean. Make more money, dude. Go make more money, bro.

42:39Sal Di Stefano:You know, so a lot of people hate on that, right? And there's a lot of like, oh, gold digger. A negative kind. But that is no different, okay, than if we were to go back 3 ,000 years and the guy who could kill deer left and right easy with the best shot and was coming home with deer over his shoulder every single day versus the guy who showed up empty-handed or a squirrel, you know what I'm saying? He found some nuts outside. Yeah, yeah. He found some nuts and berries and a squirrel, you know what I'm saying? I guarantee those two guys walk into camp. I don't give a shit what they look like physically.

43:18Sal Di Stefano:The women are looking at a dude who's carrying that deer,

43:21Justin Andrews:and she's like, I'm hungry.

43:22Sal Di Stefano:He is attractive as hell. Because you know why? Because he can feed me and our child. Of course. And nobody would hate on that. But because today, the way we show that is.

43:33Adam Schafer:It's just the way it is, dude.

43:33Sal Di Stefano:Well, that's how we show it today, though. It's no different, right? No, it's 100%. 100%. Yeah, it's just an example of that. He's proven that he can go out and hunt. He's confident. He's confident, yeah. With the best of them. and so it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I think people judge that too much.

43:48Adam Schafer:No sex with you. Blueberries? I could have went to blueberries.

43:53Justin Andrews:You're going to keep those blueberries.

43:54Adam Schafer:Sent you out to get a deer.

43:56Sal Di Stefano:You know what I'm saying? Get him a squirrel. I'm hungry. What the hell's wrong with you? Imagine that. You had to be that guy carrying the little squirrel. Get out of there.

44:03Adam Schafer:Stab something. You're with your buddies. I can't go home, dude. Bro, I killed a squirrel. No way, dude. My wife's been so bad. I got a muskrat in the back. You can borrow it. Here's some fish. Oh, my God. Go home with it. I know, it's so funny. I want to hear, Justin, you have – there's a note up here about you getting called out by your boy.

44:23Justin Andrews:Oh, yeah. So over the weekend, I went to – so my son was competing in Santa Cruz for this, like, regional – He won. Yeah, he won. He got first place. First place, dog. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And he had – I mean, there was, like, four competitors in his level, but this is a new level for him. um well he's really good level 10 yeah so he's he's legit he has to do like um double back flips now and so he has to get a lot higher in his approach um before and i was talking to adam earlier about this like he was stalled like he was stuck like so i'm really proud of him for for being able to break through um and for the minute there we actually like even because the coach that was working on these really good coach but like couldn't you know help get past this one thing like we i was like trying all of my speeches with him you know of course can you just like you know pump him up like motivate him somehow i'm like i've literally done like everything in my playbook yeah i'm like out uh so and he just would you know and he's just kind of bummed because it's it's outside of school for one so it's like he's doing this um putting a lot of work into this like outside of school not with his friends and everything and so it was kind of like he was feeling a little bit of that depression and like all this kind of stuff so anyway we looked at um getting him a a sports psychologist which i never would have thought of uh but one of his um teammates had used one and and all of a sudden it like unlocked for them and so courtney kind of presented that to me and i was like oh that's interesting let me see and i at first i tried to like you know look through our rolodex of people we've interviewed and stuff and there was like brett mccabe i think was one but uh and i looked and you know he didn't get a hold of him but there was this one guy who um was recommended that was local and um started talking to him and did some some sessions with him and um it was literally like after that one session with him he went back to the gym and then all of a sudden boom he got it and just like yeah and i was like what did he say what was it you know and it just i think he just needed to hear it from somebody else of course and to just get empowered um but anyways so all that to be said like my story was nothing to do with any of that okay i was outside i was like walking back to my car uh with everett and uh I was wearing my sweatshirt, and it's a Santa Cruz sweatshirt.

46:59Justin Andrews:And so it's like a skate surf brand, but it's really pretty much like anybody down there wears Santa Cruz brand. And so these two kids with skateboards and sunglasses come up to me, and they're like, hey, can you do a kickflip? And this guy had like a video, and he's like, can you do a kickflip? And I was like, are you guys trying to shame me right now? Is this like some kind of setup? I was like, I'm a total poser. you know it's literally what they're doing they're trying to like oh come on old man you know like do a kick flip and I was like why don't you push press 315 you'll punks and I walked away and I was like oh man my ego I was like having to check myself and like you know like I was gonna say some bad things to these kids they were like maybe I don't know 12, 13 something like that but I was like what is this You know, I think it's like some TikTok setup.

47:54Justin Andrews:Oh, it totally is.

47:55Sal Di Stefano:That's what that is. These kids do this shit all the time.

47:57Adam Schafer:That would have been a win for them either way. Either you kickflip or you fall.

48:01Justin Andrews:I was so mad because when I left, I was like talking to everyone. I was like, dude, I should just be like, yeah, no problem. Get their skateboard and then just take it and bail. I'm going to go work on it. And then just take off. I'm going to get my skateboard back. Go ahead and get your dad. Or just like stomping on it in half. Wow. Oh, man. They're 12, Justin. Listen, that's the bully in me. I thought all these thoughts, and I didn't do it.

48:29Sal Di Stefano:Hey, let's be honest. They're trying to set him up anyway. Yeah, exactly. They're trying to make me look bad.

48:33Justin Andrews:I just, you know, it was like, yeah, I'm a poser.

48:36Sal Di Stefano:So did Ethan, was Ethan happy he got the coach? He was.

48:42Justin Andrews:He was really resistant to it. So I didn't say any of that, but he was definitely pushing back, and he's like he had a thought of like what it was he thought it was like a shrink you know and it was like a you know we're gonna get all into like this emotional crap and he's like i don't want to do that dad it's not like that he's a coach you know it's a performance thing like it's he's trying to help you overcome an obstacle yeah your relationship with your mom i don't want to do that yeah i was like i don't want we're not going there don't worry pal so yeah once we i I don't know, had a few days of kind of coaxing him into it.

49:19Justin Andrews:He finally agreed. And then now he would say he totally. Totally.

49:23Sal Di Stefano:Oh, that's cool.

49:24Justin Andrews:And then we just intermittently kind of use if he has any kind of big barrier there. So much is mental. It's just, yeah, it just really helps. And that sport's all mental, dude.

49:34Sal Di Stefano:It's been so long since we did that episode with Brett McKay, but I remember him talking about some stuff in there that was really interesting that was not what I thought, like with the stuff that he had to work on. with these athletes.

49:45Adam Schafer:Obviously, you guys have experienced this, but I remember when I really fully experienced the mental side of it was, it was my first tournament as an adult in jiu-jitsu, because I did as a kid, but as an adult. And in the gym, I felt like I was a machine. Like, I could go forever. I could go round after round. It felt like I was so good. And then in the tournament, I gassed out so hard in my first match. And I was like, it was all psychological. It was all because I was too worked up, too anxious. I don't know. I had similar fact.

50:18Sal Di Stefano:It was a big joke amongst my buddies on the team that I was like, practice at them. Like in practice, like I dominated. Blocking shots and D 'ing up and hitting everything. And so I'd get opportunities to play. And then when I'd get out on the court, like forget to play, freeze up, do all this stuff and just make mistakes. And, you know, back then, like you make those mistakes, you're out. next kid's in. You have to be able to perform. You got to be able to perform. And, you know, I didn't know any better at that age to even think about working on the psychological side of that or anything like that.

50:55Sal Di Stefano:I'd just keep working harder. And I would do so, I would work so hard in practice that coaches always wanted to give me shots like that. But when I got to, and this is when I got to that bigger school, when I was, for some reason, when I was at a small school, I didn't have that same anxiety and fear. And maybe that's what it was, was because the crowds were smaller. It wasn't And it was a lower level, so it wasn't quite as competitive.

51:15Adam Schafer:Of course, less on the line maybe. Yeah, yeah.

51:16Sal Di Stefano:And so did great. And that was, I tell you, my parents had such a hard time with that because here I come from being like the star athlete in one school and then all of a sudden I'm riding the bench on the other. But I knew better because I knew I'd screw up. Like I knew I was messing up on a play or I wasn't doing something right, and so I get pulled. And so I didn't have any sort of like animosity to the coach. It's like, fuck, man, I got it. Why has this happened to me? It's like in practice I'm so good. And I get out here and like mess up, you know.

51:41Adam Schafer:Speaking of athletic performance, I know you were using the Troscriptions Tromune for sleep. By the way, you tracked your deep sleep. Yes. And it has a big effect on deep sleep. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so have you seen their Tromune? I've seen it, yeah. The main ingredient is cordycepin, which comes from the cordyceps supplement. So you know cordyceps? Yes. Okay. So I'm like, why is this? I've used cordyceps forever. I love cordyceps. Love it. I love it for athletic performance. You've talked about increasing stamina in your workouts. Stamina. I can notice my heat tolerance goes up. It's been used for a long time.

52:17Adam Schafer:I remember it became kind of popular because China was talking about using it. And I don't remember which Olympic games it was when they were performing so high. But the Tromune is like another level. Like if I take that before I work out, it's like twice as effective. And then before sleep, I also get the same thing. I have the increase in REM sleep. It also has an effect on immune system. So I looked it up and I'm like, and I compared, I'm like, what is it about transcriptions versus just the normal cordyceps that I would get? Okay. Big difference, you guys. So cordycepin is one of the main active ingredients in cordyceps.

52:58Adam Schafer:It's what does the stuff that we're talking about. Okay. When you take cordyceps, typically you'll take capsules and a high dose would be like 3 ,000 milligrams of powdered cordyceps. Got it. Within 3 ,000 milligrams, you're getting maybe 15 to 20 milligrams of cordyceps. If you're lucky, if it's like super high quality, oftentimes it's more like two milligrams or five milligrams. Do you guys want to know how much is in a dose of Trimune? How much? 75. Wow. 75 milligrams of cordyceps. So they literally took it concentrated. Super concentrated. super concentrated it oh interesting so like pre-workout uh especially if you're gonna have like short rest periods or you're gonna do high reps or any kind of endurance you'll notice for sure and then for sleep rem which is crazy because you tracked it i know doug tracked it

53:46Sal Di Stefano:yeah you see an increase yeah i did i saw right away very first the first time i had one of my best rem sleeps i had i've had since i've been tracking yeah so i was like oh this is cool yeah

53:54Adam Schafer:super cool wow speaking of something else that's cool i saw this app that has got to be one of the most cool fitness apps I've seen in a long time. No affiliation. Have you guys heard of push scroll? Push scroll. Okay. No, it's, it's actually pretty cool. Let's see what is it. So my buddy Chuck is using it. So you connect it to your, to whatever social media platforms you want to. So you can do YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Tik TOK, whatever you, whatever you want, whatever you use a lot of. Okay. You end up earning time on those by doing exercises, push-ups, squats, sit-ups, and it'll give you time.

54:32Adam Schafer:So like a push-up is worth two minutes, a squat is worth one minute. And I'm like, well, that's kind of cool. Uh, but like, how does it track? How's it tracking the camera? So he showed me, he puts it up, it tracks his body movement and it only count a full squat. It will only count a full push-up. Then it connects to his social media. When he goes on his Instagram, he clicks on it, it's locked and it says, do you want to use some of your time? You say, yes. Then you pull from the time that you earned and then that's how much time you're on your social media and then it kicks you off and so i'm like i'm like i told him i said is this actually working and he goes yes my total social media time went down by more than half because i said now why is that he said number one you exercise for it was i don't mind i like doing like activity he goes but what's cool is you when you're picking the time that you want to go on your instagram you know you'll say i only want to be on for 10 minutes usually you have that idea in your mind that i'm only gonna be on for 10 and then you get trapped.

55:26Adam Schafer:He's like, but this kicks me off. And I go, actually, I was wasting time. And I come off. Bro, cut his social media time by more than half. And he's doing like hundreds of squats and push-ups.

55:35Sal Di Stefano:He's a CrossFitter, so.

55:38Adam Schafer:But I'm like, can you cheat it? No, no, it records you. So he was doing squats. And if it's like a half squat, it won't count. You have to do like a full.

55:45Sal Di Stefano:That's pretty cool. It's interesting. It's interesting to see how well that would work. Yeah. I wonder how, I mean.

55:51Justin Andrews:And I like that they're trying to innovate solutions for this.

55:54Adam Schafer:I think this is for someone who's fitness-minded who also wants to get off social media.

55:58Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I think it's a cool tool for kids. If you have a kid and you're trying to encourage a kid to - Maybe put a password on it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I see it more valuable for that than for me. Can we connect it to chores instead? It would be a nuisance to have to record every bit of my workout because that's kind of -

56:14Adam Schafer:Well, it's not every bit of your workout. It's just, oh, I want time, so I'm going to do bodyweight squats or time, I'm going to do bodyweight push-ups. So throughout the day, you just earn time. That's how you do it. That's even more ridiculous. Use your volume and get out of control. I thought it was a cool concept. I like what you said, though, Justin. For kids, that would be kind of cool. If you have a kid that's inactive. I said that. It's all right. Was that better when I said it? Yeah, it's okay. I like how you were thinking it, but Adam stole it. Probiotics have been shown in studies to improve gut health, digestion, reduce inflammation, reduce the risk of depression and anxiety, and improve athletic performance and recovery from your workouts.

56:53Adam Schafer:But the problem is, which probiotic? Go with Seed. These are the world's best probiotic makers. This really works. Take it every night before bed. Notice improvements in all the things that I said within typically 30 to 60 days. Go check them out. Go to Seed.com forward slash Mind Pump and use the code 25MindPump for 25 % off. Back to the show. our first caller is lindsey from north carolina hi lindsey hi lindsey oh my gosh this is so crazy to see all of you hi how can you thank you so much for taking my call i really appreciate it

57:30Justin Andrews:um i'm gonna read from my email if that's okay just because i'm a little nervous Perfect. I'm fan struck here. But before asking my question, I wanted to express my deepest gratitude to all of you for everything that you bring to the show. I've been a listener since 2019 and the advice and insight you share has changed the way I look at health, fitness and longevity. I wanted to add that I particularly appreciate the way you communicate respectfully and honestly to women. And I respect and admire your focus on being fathers and the intentionality with which you raise your children. So thanks so much for all that.

58:05Thank you.

58:05Adam Schafer:That's nice.

58:07Justin Andrews:I'm a huge fan of the show, and I'd love some advice on making a career change to personal training. I'm a trained social worker coming to the end of a long career in child abuse investigation, supervision, and administration. I love being a social worker, and I care so much about helping children and families, but I've always been passionate about fitness and movement, and I'm considering a career change to fitness. I've rebounded from three knee surgeries and I manage chronic Lyme disease. So I feel like I have a pretty empathetic mindset for helping others work through physical struggle. I've also been diagnosed with an eating disorder.

58:41Justin Andrews:And I think I can understand the mental hardships of individuals battling insecurity, anxiety, dysmorphia, and dysfunctional relationships with diet and exercise. But I have a secure and a pretty stable job that meets all my needs. I'm single. I cover all my expenses. health insurance, retirement, all the things. And I'd like to make a career change. And I'd love to hear your perspective on how realistic it would be for an almost 50 year old to enter the field of personal training. I've spent decades working with people and meeting people where they are and helping them to make change, but I'm just not sure.

59:18Justin Andrews:And I'm hoping for some insight on how this could transfer to personal training.

59:22Adam Schafer:Yeah. Very good question. I think you have everything it takes. You have the right heart for personal training, which is the most important thing. Training, you know, six, seven, eight clients a day, different personalities, different challenges, lots of, you know, failures along the way. If you don't have a deep passion and love for people and wanting to help them, that gets old real fast. So that's the most important thing. It sounds like you've got that. Let's talk about what it would look like to move over to be a personal trainer and, you know, kind of what to expect and what the challenges may be for someone like you.

1:00:00Adam Schafer:I don't think you'd have a challenge wanting to help people at all. Obviously, that's what you do for a living now. And your background, I think, makes you. You'll excel at it. You'll do very well with it. The thing that would be maybe a challenge would be the sales aspect of it. Uh, because as, as a, as a trainer, regardless of the environment you're in big box, which is probably where you, where you would want to start, that'd be a great place to learn everything or private, which would be much more difficult, but still you'd have, you have to sell. You have to be able to get people to hire you.

1:00:30Adam Schafer:You're not giving clients. Um, sometimes in big box gyms, they'll give you some clients, but you, but it is you building your business and promoting and selling. Um, and that's a skill, um, in and of itself. There's also a time period where you're going to have to build your client base. If you go in and you work hard, you know, I would say give yourself a cushion that's like three to six months to build a good client base. With, you know, if you apply yourself, you show up, you're there, you're learning. By three to six months in a big box gym, you'll do just fine because the opportunities are so plentiful in a big box gym.

1:01:10Adam Schafer:and then I would stay there and big box gyms will provide you with health insurance and all that stuff. Um, and then I would stay there until you're really doing well until you're like one of the top trainers. And then from there you can decide if you want to go private, if you want to work in a correctional exercise, um, environment, which it sounds like maybe you'd be more interested in or something like that, or working with a functional medicine practitioner, but it's, it's, but you want to learn in an environment that provides you with lots of opportunity. like when it comes to leads and potential clients uh big box gyms uh they're plentiful in smaller studios and private there's like none you have to like walk outside the studio and like try to build a business which can be very difficult but if you learn it in a big box arena and do well there then you'll the odds are better that you've got what it takes to do it

1:02:01Sal Di Stefano:in a private environment i mean sal said it really well and the difference that in how difficult this transition would be solely on the sales aspect. You have everything it takes to be a good coach and going to be a great trainer. It's the transition from a very good income that's consistent that you've built already to this starting all over. And does that take two months, six months, eight months, a year? Solely depends on how much you lean into the sales side. If you get good at that and you embrace that, you'll do well and do well fast. The more you resist it or you don't like it or you struggle with it, that is what will extend out that pain.

1:02:48Sal Di Stefano:Like how long does it take me to get there? I think no matter what, like you could, you would become a great coach no matter what. I think that we all feel confident with your background that you would really be able to help people. But unfortunately there's none of these businesses that will just put people in front of you, you have to go be able to get those people. And the big box is the best place to get to, to put the exercise in that because they will at least give you some clients. Whereas if you did try and start in a small gym or go private, you would, that would solely fall on you to go through that.

1:03:17Sal Di Stefano:And that's really hard. That's really hard for a good trainer. A good trainer will struggle. I've seen many trainers that were their top guys or girls working for me. And then they went off on their own and they really struggled to, to go build their business by themselves. So I can't, I can't stress enough how important that, you know, beginning stage of learning that skillset through a big box is so valuable because they'll give you so many good reps. And so, yeah, it really, how much does that, I mean, one of the, just so you know, too, I don't know how familiar you are with the course that we created.

1:03:49Sal Di Stefano:So when we created our trainer course, we really looked at the space and said, you know, where's the gap? Like we weren't trying to compete with NCSF or NASM, a lot of these great national certs that do a good job with biomechanics and nutrition and human physiology. What we saw the massive gap in was building your business with sales, client communication, building or scaling a business. And so our course is really heavily weighted in that. So if that's something you want to embark in, I would highly recommend getting in there because that we have a great community and it's ongoing community.

1:04:23Sal Di Stefano:So, and meets with the trainers and it's within a school community. So you have other trainers that are building their business at the same time. So it's very, very valuable for somebody who's trying to make that transition.

1:04:32Adam Schafer:And Lindsay, just to encourage you and, you know, Adam, Justin and myself have worked with and trained a lot of trainers and have helped a lot of trainers become successful. And this is the encouraging part. Okay. Sometimes when people hear sales, they think of a, either a particular type of personality or like you're selling products or you got to have this kind of like pushy and you got to learn how to overcome objections and that kind of, um, what you're selling is, is not a product. Um, really what it is, is how effectively can you communicate to somebody, uh, the value in working with someone like you and you know how much it could really impact somebody i mean uh you take the average person and if they exercise appropriately uh and improve their eating for them right for their body because it's different from person to person there isn't there really isn't a part of the life that won't improve from that and you know that right so it's like how effectively can i communicate that to miss johnson or mr smith who's in front of me so so that they say you know what yeah, I think I'd like to invest, you know, a thousand dollars or$2 ,000 in working with Lindsay because this is so valuable.

1:05:53Adam Schafer:That's the sales part, uh, that, uh, that we're talking about because, uh, what people see when they look at fitness is they go, Oh, I just, okay. Just move it. I just gotta go move more. Here's a bunch of gems. Oh, you're a trainer. Just show me a few exercises. Um, and then I'll be okay. And you're just like every other trainer. So whoever's cheaper, uh, you know, type of deal. And my membership's only 30 bucks a month. Why would I spend$2 ,000 for, you know, 20 sessions of training or something like that? And so the communication aspect, which is sales is so important, uh, with that, but it's not again, like, uh, I've worked with so many trainers with like, I just want to help people.

1:06:32Adam Schafer:Yeah. I'm not trying to sell anything.

1:06:34Justin Andrews:It's like, listen, that is what's going to sell them. That's what passion you have to help people is what's going to, you know, you just have to be able to paint that picture for them clearly and use that communication skill to really convey, you know, what you're going to do with them, how their life's going to be different as a result of this. And, you know, after that, it's really just a matter of like, when can we start? So I think that trainers get hung up a lot with, you know, that end result of, I have to like get to the point where now they get the credit card out and it's like this friction.

1:07:07Justin Andrews:Um, but really, you know, you just building up that confidence of how to really convey a crystal clear plan for them is, is going to be huge.

1:07:15Adam Schafer:And actually you probably already know this as a social worker, you'll go work with people and you're, you're trying to get them to, uh, change how they live. And a lot of that hinges on how well you can communicate it and that's sales. And so, uh, your client hires you, the sales process isn't done every day you train them. It's like, okay, how can I communicate to this person in a way that gets them to make these changes and really effective, impactful, like forever ways. Um, and you've listened to our podcast for probably a little while. That's all we do on the show is I'm trying to communicate ideas in ways that click, uh, for people.

1:07:55Adam Schafer:So that's the part that, and just, again, I'm just trying to encourage you because, um, anytime I talk to somebody who's really wants to help people uh oftentimes when I say sales uh they're like oh no that's not what I want to do I want to help people yeah no I thank you so

1:08:10Justin Andrews:much that means so much I think yeah I've been listening to you for I started listening right before COVID actually I was coming out of a knee surgery and I had been a runner and I was like ready to slit my wrist because I couldn't run anymore and um I had actually a then boyfriend who was like, you got to start lifting. You got to start resisting changing. And I started listening to you guys at the same time. And that completely changed my life.

1:08:34Adam Schafer:Awesome. And absolutely changed

1:08:37Justin Andrews:my life. And I appreciate what you're saying, because I think what I've done in social work for so long, like all I've done for 20 years is try to sell people on how to change their life.

1:08:46Adam Schafer:Yes.

1:08:47Justin Andrews:Decades. But it's been different things, right? It's been like, sobriety, better jobs, not in a domestically violent relationship, not being, you know, I've been selling different things to people and I'm ready to sell something.

1:09:01Adam Schafer:Wonderful.

1:09:03Justin Andrews:That's a little different, right? Like, I think I'm just ready to sell something new.

1:09:07Adam Schafer:That's great. Yeah. I would say,

1:09:11Sal Di Stefano:I think Anne should call you and she'll talk to you more about. Yeah.

1:09:14Adam Schafer:Look at our course. Cause I think it would really help you if you decide to move in that direction. Definitely. My advice would be to start in a big box. That's not where you would end up unless you love it and you want to end up wanting to move up in management or whatever but that'd be the best it's like the best place to learn yeah how to get this going and then from there uh if you're like oh my gosh i want to go private or whatever then the opportunities uh really open up but that'll be the are you located in an area where you've got access to big box gyms

1:09:41Justin Andrews:yeah so i'm in charlotte um which is which is great it's a little bit of an issue for me only and that I moved here like 10 months ago to be closer to family and help my parents that are getting to a certain point of life. So I don't, I feel like the transition makes me nervous because I'm not super connected in this community. Like I had been in Philadelphia for 25 years and I, you know, knew so many more people and here I just don't, you guys know, like life is so much about who you know and who you trust and who you can connect with. So that makes me nervous too, like putting myself out there in a new career where I don't really have connections in the community yet, but I think it's worth a shot.

1:10:25Justin Andrews:And my friends, I have the best friend group in the world and they all were like, absolutely billion percent. You should do this. But several of them were like, you should write in and ask the guys, which means you say really, you should ask the guys and see what they say. So I really appreciate your feedback. Yeah.

1:10:42Sal Di Stefano:You have, you have, you have what it takes to be a great coach and trainer for sure. I think all of us see that and think so. And I think the, the, the first baby step before you just switch careers, I think would be to go through the course. Cause what you learn, what you're going to learn through the course, you can take that into whatever you do. And then also going through that will really give you, if you get excited going through the course, I feel like that's even more confirmation that this is where you should be. If you feel like, Oh man, I don't know how much I like this. Then that's probably, then that's your answer.

1:11:09Sal Di Stefano:So I think that's a good way to kind of like, okay, let me dip my foot in this, start moving in this direction. because it's definitely going to help you no matter where you go.

1:11:18Adam Schafer:There's a couple of things too I want to touch on. One, you said community. You go into a big gym. When you walk in there, you get hired. Your goal is to be known in that gym. I want to know everyone. I want to talk with everybody. I want to be the mayor in here. And that can happen actually pretty quickly. Within a month, if you just make sure to talk to people, introduce yourself, help people out, shake people's hands, before you know it, you'll know a lot of regulars in there and be kind of known in there. So that is, it's a great, it's a very easy way to build a community.

1:11:48Sal Di Stefano:It's one of the advantages you have being the new person coming into the gym. A lot of trainers get in their own little bubble of their client book and they're in and out with their clients and they don't hang out in the gym. And the advantage a new trainer has is that opportunity to just spend the day in there saying hi to everybody, helping everybody. And to Sal's point, within a matter of 30 days, you could be the new person, but all of a sudden respected by the gym as the person that helps everybody. And so there's a huge opportunity as a new person coming in to be, to be that.

1:12:18Adam Schafer:And then in your, because of your background and, and you mentioned your age even in there. And I think, and so I want to address that. I don't know if this is what you meant by it, but sometimes people will be like, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, you know, 45 or I'm 60. Like, like, is it okay to start as a trainer? Not only yes, but actually better. Yeah. Okay. The average client, personal training client is not 20. Yeah. The average personal training client is probably between the ages of 40 and 65. that's on average they're going to identify more with you than they will to the 25 year old you

1:12:50Sal Di Stefano:know i would argue that was all of our i would say my biggest challenge my first decade was being 20 20 something yeah and people looking at me like how do you know yeah wait wait till you get 30 wait till you get 40 you know they used to say shit like that to me all the time and i'm trying to convince them what they need to do and they're telling me like you don't even know you're a kid still right so i i think it works to your favor totally have a lot of life experience and that and that will, and you will be selling to your age and above. You're not going to be selling to a lot of 25, 30-year-olds.

1:13:19Adam Schafer:And especially to your gender, especially. Like women, women, you know, in your age group are 100 % more likely to want to hire somebody that they feel will get them. Yeah. Like that was a struggle for me as an early trainer. Like the 45-year-old, you know, mom or whatever, and I'm, you know, I'm 19-year-old. It's like, it took me a second to convince her to train with me, you know? Yeah. You'll do great, Lindsey.

1:13:42Justin Andrews:Yeah, because they think that you don't get it, right? That's right.

1:13:44Adam Schafer:And they were right. I didn't get it for the most part. Yeah. You'll do great.

1:13:50Justin Andrews:Well, thank you guys so much.

1:13:51Adam Schafer:You got it. I really appreciate it. You got it, Lindsay.

1:13:53Justin Andrews:Thanks for all you do. Really appreciate it.

1:13:55Adam Schafer:Thanks for calling in. Bye. Yeah, great question. I'm glad she called in because it's good for other people to hear what she has to say. And it gave us an opportunity to talk about, you know, the important aspects of becoming a successful trainer. and it's good for people to hear that. And I'm going to say this, I'm going to be very clear. If you don't have the heart for training, it will be the worst job you've ever done in your life. You'll hate it. If you don't have a heart for helping people, it'll suck. It's a human service business. You will burn out so fast. You need to be a fan of humans.

1:14:29Adam Schafer:You have to have that.

1:14:30Sal Di Stefano:You also will too if you are resistant to the sales part. Yes. You just won't grow. Because, yeah, I've had coaches that really love helping people but are so resistant to, quote, the sale word, that they just refuse to try and get good and do those things. And if you have that attitude going into it, you'll also fail. So it's like it takes the coach who loves people or has a passion for people and then also is willing to embrace the sales side or likes the sales side. And really, that will determine. That's the formula. That will determine how quickly she makes this transition is how much she's open and willing to get good at the sales part because she has what it takes on the empathy and the experience.

1:15:15Sal Di Stefano:She's working with more challenging things.

1:15:16Adam Schafer:Yeah, exactly.

1:15:17Sal Di Stefano:So she's going to be good with that. It's going to be how much do you embrace this like getting good at the sales aspect of this. And if she does, she'll do really well. Our next caller is Sandy from Utah. Hi, Sandy. How you doing, Sandy? Hello.

1:15:31Justin Andrews:Hi, guys.

1:15:32Sal Di Stefano:How you doing? How can we help you?

1:15:34Justin Andrews:Well, thanks for taking my call. I've been following Mind Pump for several years. And here's my question. I'm a 73-year-old retired home health and hospice nurse. I lead a pretty busy lifestyle. In a recent podcast, you talked about the Goldilocks phase, and I think that's where I'm at. Since 2019, I've dropped 30 pounds using a reverse diet a couple of times. I've held my current weight now for about three years. I get 10 ,000 steps in a day most days. I live three times a week from my home gym with one of my sons who's a trainer using FaceTime. My diet is protein-centric, and I typically get 150 to 170 grams of protein a day with 60 to 80 grams of fat and 100 to 125 grams of carb.

1:16:22Justin Andrews:I try to stay between 1 ,500 and 1 ,800 calories a day. I eat mostly whole food with an occasional splurge of ice cream. I am 73. My fitness goal is to stay mobile and to have energy to keep up with the grandkids and to stay as independent as possible for as long as possible. My question is, what's a normal body fat for a 73-year-old? My last depth scan has my body fat at 31%. My biometric scale that I weigh on is consistent with that number. My muscle mass is around 120 pounds. With my 30-pound weight loss, I did lose a couple of pounds of muscle mass. My son measured me with his calipers, but the reference chart doesn't include my age group.

1:17:09Justin Andrews:For the most of my adult life, I was 6 '1", now I'm 5 '10", and my current weight is around 175 to 180. My lab works great. My cholesterol is 152. My triglyceride HDL ratio is 1.03. I'm only on thyroid replacement medicine. I take vitamins, zinc, magnesium. I started the seed probiotic. I like it a lot. I add collagen and 10 grams of creatine to my coffee every day. I did start on hormone replacement last year. My sleep is six to seven hours a day. And with the progesterone, my deep sleep has greatly improved. I am grateful for my health. I do have a 30-year history of multiple sclerosis. but other than my downhill balance and heat intolerance, I have no other symptoms.

1:17:56Justin Andrews:I just need to know if my body fat percentage is something I need to address or not. And I wanted your thoughts.

1:18:02Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, no,

1:18:03Justin Andrews:you're kicking ass.

1:18:04Adam Schafer:You were kicking ass. Yeah. So the best, so you said you had good blood work. You're active. I'm assuming there's not many limitations if you're exercising. So you could do things like lunges and rows and crunches and stuff like that. So you've got decent. I do all of that. Oh, I do all of that.

1:18:22Justin Andrews:I had a total shoulder done last year, so I don't take the bar over my head right now, but I do dumbbell all the rest with dumbbells.

1:18:32Adam Schafer:Yeah. At the best predictor for your health for someone like you is strength. And a grip strength test is actually an easy way to do this. Average grip strength for a woman your age is something like 43 pounds. Yours is probably much higher. Now that's just a, um, a proxy for overall body strength. Okay. So there's nothing special about grip strength. It's just an easy way to test, uh, and reference overall body strength, which you're, you're kicking butt because of all the, all the strength training that you're doing, but a grip, a grip strength measurer, a dynamometer is really inexpensive. You can get one on Amazon.

1:19:10Adam Schafer:And if you just want to, just want to see for yourself, you just squeeze it with your dominant hand and see where your number is and reference it to your age. And you're probably, I would imagine a good 15 pounds over that, uh, because of all your strength training. Um, you've had bone density testing done. I did.

1:19:27Justin Andrews:Um, last bone scan was a couple of years ago and it was fine.

1:19:30Adam Schafer:Yeah. You're doing great. Body fat percentage is great. So what you don't want. Yeah. So body fat percentage, obviously it's too high, starts to get associated with poor health outcomes. But when someone's fit at higher body fat percentages, it's actually very different. Now your body fat percentage isn't that high. In fact, for someone your age, it's probably better to be in the high 20s, low 30s than it would be to be in the low 20s.

1:19:56Sal Di Stefano:I would not want you to be below 25. No. 25 to 30 is like, oh, yeah, in a great place.

1:20:00Adam Schafer:Yeah, you're actually going to do better even staying around 30, 31 than you would around like 24. Agreed. It actually protects you if you get injured or sick and you need some of those reserves. but because you're strong and you're exercising and you're taking your steps and your lipids look

1:20:21Sal Di Stefano:good like you're kicking butt yeah the only bit of advice i have for you aside from just keep doing what you're doing is trying to increase calories and strength so you know like you it sounds like you've done a few reverse diets like i like doing that with you where we try and bump calories to 300 calories let's really push the weights this week let's try and see if we can increase the weights and some of your exercises. So really try and improve the strength and keep creeping the calories up. And if we can do that while kind of maintaining your weight and body fat percentage where it's at, we're winning and you're continuing to win.

1:20:56Sal Di Stefano:But what you're doing is phenomenal.

1:20:58Adam Schafer:Yeah. How long have you been training via FaceTime with your son?

1:21:02Justin Andrews:Oh my goodness. Well, we moved to Utah about five years ago. It was in person at his gym in our home in central california um so we just worked it out where i do facetime you know it's i always tease him i have to change my weights and do my own stuff but how long did you train in person with him for oh gosh um 2009 i hired him he's a he's a bonus kid i hired him because i at 59 i did two marathons back to back and i train i just hired him to train me. And so I did that with my oldest son, um, back to back marathons and, and I've kept, I've kept the trainer. Um, and now he's a part of the family.

1:21:49Justin Andrews:He and his family.

1:21:50Adam Schafer:You're good. You're doing good. Cause I was going to say maybe having some in-person training, but you did it for a while with him in person. So now FaceTime is perfectly fine. And then again,

1:21:57Justin Andrews:if you ever, he does this, he does a strong man every year. We go back for a strong man competition at his gym and I work out with him there. So I do about every six months or so work out with him.

1:22:09Adam Schafer:You're doing so good. Do you take creatine?

1:22:12Justin Andrews:Thank you. I do. In fact, yesterday I was stuck in an airport for six hours on a delay. So I listened to five of your podcasts to catch up and that new creatine company that you're touting has capsules. So I'm ordering those today and I'm going to bump it up to 20. Oh, yeah.

1:22:30Adam Schafer:Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I mean, you're doing really, really well. And if you ever have a question about stuff like this, just a good reminder that I like to tell people like you who've been doing this for a while is look around and look at your peers. And you know, this, I don't need to tell you this, but I'll just say this. If I put you around 50 other 73 year old women, there's a big difference between you and them with mobility, with energy, with the things that you could do. And that's a nice indicator of how well you're doing.

1:23:02Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:23:03Justin Andrews:I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful.

1:23:05Sal Di Stefano:You're doing all the things. Yeah. Incredible. Great job. Yeah. 12 grandkids.

1:23:10Justin Andrews:I love the kudos. Thank you so much.

1:23:13Adam Schafer:Yeah, don't worry about your body fat percentage. You're in a great range. Yeah, you're a great place.

1:23:16Justin Andrews:All right.

1:23:17Adam Schafer:Awesome.

1:23:18Justin Andrews:I'll take it from the experts. Thank you.

1:23:20Adam Schafer:You got it. Yeah. She was great. So you know what's interesting about this? I don't even know if we've really ever talked about this. So we'll say if you're fit and healthy as a woman, generally you'll see your body fat percentage be around low to mid-ish 20%. But as you get older, if you're fit, right, if you're fit and strong, you're actually better with a little bit higher body fat percentage. Well, you know, you have talked about this indirectly many times.

1:23:46Sal Di Stefano:You've talked many times about studies that show you're better off having a higher body fat percentage and being strong than you are being lower body fat percentage and weak. And so in this case, she's obviously strong. She's taking 10 ,000 steps. She's weight training three days a week. Very active. So she's a very active, strong 73-year-old. And so I would rather her be at a higher body fat percentage and capable of all those feeds than go, hey, let's try and get you down to 25%. Cut her calories, do something like that. And inevitably, her strength would come down. You take somebody from 1 ,800 calories down to 1 ,300 calories to lose body fat percentage, and she's going to lose muscle and strength along the way.

1:24:26Sal Di Stefano:You're right.

1:24:27Adam Schafer:It's not worth it. And it's really what you have to consider as you get older is resilience. Because what you see in the data is an older person gets sick or hurt, their health declines very rapidly. So let's say you're a 73-year-old woman. You're fit. You work out. You run. You go to the gym all the time. You're at 19 % body fat. And then let's just say you fall. You're running and you fall. It's a total accident. You break your leg. You don't have much body fat to run off of. You're in the hospital for a while. You're actually going to do worse than if you had 30 % body fat. 100%. It's true for men as well.

1:24:58Adam Schafer:So a little bit higher with fitness is better.

1:25:01Sal Di Stefano:Which is why, too, the only advice I have for her, if she were to do anything, is bump calories. Yeah, her calories are a bit low. Yeah, bump calories and try and continue to get stronger. That's right. Otherwise, keep on going. What you're doing is great. Our next caller is Maggie from British Columbia. What's happening, Maggie?

1:25:16Justin Andrews:Hey, guys. Wow. Thank you so much for having me. It's so lovely to meet you all. Yeah, same.

1:25:21Adam Schafer:How can I help you?

1:25:22Justin Andrews:Yeah. Well, before I begin, I just want to say, hey, thanks guys so much for everything that you do. I'm a nurse who also works in academia, and I think that preventative medicine is just so, so important. And so I just really appreciate everything that you guys do, and I love how you guys are always backed up by evidence and by research. So just keep doing what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you. So before I jump into my question, like so many callers previously, I'll give you a little backstory just to give you some context into my question. So I'm a 38-year-old perimenopausal woman. And so, of course, growing up in the 90s and early 2000s, you know, was in that culture of heavy cardio and low calorie intake.

1:26:10Justin Andrews:And that was very much drilled into my head for weight loss. And so, you know, yes, it worked, but it didn't last a very long time. And so I found that basically throughout my life, I was yo-yo dieting. And so fast forward about six years ago, my body went through lots of changes when I had my daughter. About a year after that, my husband and I tried for a second child and we ended up needing to do about two years worth of fertility treatment. um unfortunately in about february 2024 we had our eighth and final loss and just decided to move ahead with our family of three and um with consultation from my physician just took about a year to kind of have my body recover try and kind of get back to normalcy so of course you know went back to low calorie intake, went back to cardio, went back to eating healthy as I normally did.

1:27:11Justin Andrews:But of course, that year came up and nothing, nothing seemed to change. So I was really tired. I had a lot of abdominal fat, wasn't sleeping, just wasn't making any gains at all. I'm sure that you know where this is going. So I went back to my doctor. Of course, my hormones hormones were totally all over the place. But I did go on HRT back in September of 2025. And it was totally life changing. I mean, like Dr. Lauren Fitzgerald, who you guys had on said, I no longer wanted to throat punch my husband. I, you know, it turns out that I actually do really like him and didn't want to divorce him every month.

1:27:55Justin Andrews:So that was great. And was sleeping again was like seeing changes in my body in terms of you know my abdominal fat was was getting um was I was losing that all of those kinds of things and then found your podcast um January of this year and started to kind of slowly do weight training and the reverse dieting which I will be honest and say that it definitely took me mentally a while to kind of you know put get my brain used to that and kind of what was just so deeply ingrained in me growing up. But I'm definitely seeing the process. I'm trusting the process and I'm seeing some changes. You know, I'm lifting heavier.

1:28:40Justin Andrews:My clothes are fitting looser. People are commenting on like my weight loss, even though I haven't actually, you know, lost weight essentially, but I'm, my body composition is definitely changing. But so here comes my question. I'm really proud of the progress that I've made with my body composition. And I definitely want to keep going with that. But I do really miss running. I have always been a runner. I did a half marathon last year. I'm hoping to do another one this June. And I do find that like, it's my happy place. It's where, you know, I'm meditating, I'm kind of connecting with the higher power that I believe in.

1:29:24Justin Andrews:But my question is like, is it possible to have, you know, your number one goal as your kind of aesthetic and strength while sort of having, you know, your number two goal as training for a half marathon? And if so, how could I best do that?

1:29:39Adam Schafer:No, that's a good question. Seasons. Now there's a lot to unpack here. So tell me about the mental health benefits you get from, Explain that to me. What are you feeling from that, where you're getting value?

1:29:52Justin Andrews:So, I mean, I definitely get it from strength training too. Like I definitely, you know, after I'm done my strength training, especially where I'm like hitting harder and, you know, pushing more, like I definitely kind of walk away being like, yeah, this was awesome. But it's just different with running. I do find that I get that kind of runner's high that people talk about. again like I said I run outside so just kind of connecting with the earth you know it is where I kind of do my meditation and you know I talk to spirit and stuff like that so I definitely really enjoy that yeah so I would say those were kind of those are kind of the two things it's again it's not that I don't get it from strength training but I find that I really get it more from running.

1:30:39Adam Schafer:Okay. I have some, I have a couple more questions. Would you say that you're, um, kind of like a go-getter, go, go, go, um, mind kind of racing, uh, you know, your mentality is like, if I want something, I'll get it. I'll work hard towards it. Is that like, okay.

1:30:58Justin Andrews:Yeah, totally. Which is why, like, again, the like increased calories and the taking breaks has been really challenging for me. I can do it, but I, it's definitely something that I've had to wrap my brain around for sure.

1:31:11Adam Schafer:All right. Tell me if this resonates. Okay. I think the value that you're getting, the mental value that you're getting from running is that it gets you out of your head.

1:31:18Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:31:19Adam Schafer:Yeah. Okay. So, which is by the way, not a bad value. That's a great value. Uh, the problem is with someone like you in the background that you're giving me running for someone like you is a very slippery slope there's nothing wrong with running but it very easy i'm gonna i'm gonna again

1:31:37Sal Di Stefano:this is an educated here's a slippery slope sal you you love running instantly you default to marathon yeah i mean what i mean we can do the right we can do some running for meditative we don't have to go straight on to marathon like there's a there's a there's some middle ground here that's what that's that's the slippery slope right that's what i mean yeah is that your

1:31:55Adam Schafer:tendency is to turn it into something that is no longer really healthy. So what I would say to you, my advice for someone like you would be like, okay, does hiking provide that? The nature, you're outside. It's way better for your body at this moment. Because at this moment, what it sounds like we've dealt with is over accumulation of overall stress. Okay.

1:32:17Justin Andrews:Yeah, for sure.

1:32:18Adam Schafer:And so we're looking at like healing the body, building muscle or the process of building muscle really works well with that. Now that doesn't mean you can't overdo that too, because you definitely can, but if you're not getting stronger, it's an easy sign to be like, okay, I'm overdoing it. Right. So it's a nice signal. Uh, so, you know, my advice to someone like you is if, if it's, if it's really about the mental benefit and you're like, look, that's what I really want. I want that get out of my head space type of thing. I think hiking or walking with music would, would potentially provide that.

1:32:49Adam Schafer:Um, and, and so I would say move towards that and then Focus on the strength training. Okay. And build the muscle and get the hormone. I know you're on HRT. Yeah. And HRT is amazing. But the one downfall of HRT is it can kind of band-aid over things because no matter what, your hormones are balanced. So no matter how much you beat yourself up, my estrogen, progesterone, testosterone are at these levels. So I'll see this with men too. They'll go on TRT and they'll immediately start overtraining themselves because their testosterone stays high and so the signal is harder to read. Right. Um, so I would say focus on the strength training, not a ton.

1:33:26Adam Schafer:Uh, I would have you do like two days a week, full body or maps 15, which is like a two, a couple of lifts a day. And then I do the hiking and then I'd focus on feeding and fueling your body. And what that's going to do is it's going to give you what you're looking for, which is that improvement in quality of life. And then the side effect of which being this body composition, continuing change of body composition. now the challenge for you is good is going to be to not scale scale scale and push push push because that that's your kind of mo yeah so that's going to be the challenge that you're going to have to kind of work with as you go through this process but i'm going to tell you on the other end of this on the other side of this maggie what's going to feel like if you're able to do this is you're going to you're going to more and more you're going to have this realization that oh my gosh i can't believe i'm looking the way i am and i feel the way i am and And it feels like I'm not even trying that hard because the context for you is trying really hard.

1:34:24Justin Andrews:Totally. And I think that that's kind of where I got to at the end, right? Is just being like, this isn't sustainable. This is not, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. I've done this for 25 years. I don't want to keep doing this. My goal is just to be healthy and happy with my body for the rest of my life. And I mean, I'm so grateful. My body's been through a lot and it's done a lot for me. And I just, you know, I want to keep it strong and, and again, sustained.

1:34:54Sal Di Stefano:So, so hold, hold that thought right there too. So say that. And then also like understand that where marathon running doesn't fit with that narrative.

1:35:04Justin Andrews:Okay.

1:35:04Sal Di Stefano:You know what I'm saying? Like that, like train that that's, and that's why when I first, when you first set up, like, yeah, that could be a seasonal thing or a goal that we do eventually do, but it doesn't fit the narrative that you just said right there. It's something that you want to maintain and do for the rest of your life. You can't be running marathons the rest of your life every single, you know, three to six months.

1:35:20Adam Schafer:At least right now, any competition, any physical competition is not a good idea. Yeah. Because that's just going to push your button, the one that you love to push. So I would just not compete. I wouldn't compete. Like, if you really like running that much and it's like, look, I don't get this from hiking. There's nothing wrong with, like, cruising a mile a day.

1:35:39Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:35:40Adam Schafer:You just go outside and do a mile run and you do it at this nice pace and you just get out of your head rather than like, I got to push this run type of deal. And then you strength train and you continue to fuel and feed your body and watch what happens.

1:35:53Justin Andrews:Or restorative mobility and like, you know, some kind of yoga practice, something where it's like, you know, you're directed to move, but maybe it gets you out of your head a bit.

1:36:02Adam Schafer:Totally. And I'll tell you what, by the way, you're, you're, I mean, you know, nurse, you're nurse, right? Nurse practitioner. Yeah. Plus active.

1:36:08Justin Andrews:I'm not registered nurse, but I also teach at the university.

1:36:12Adam Schafer:Yeah, dude, you're like so, like, this is like an avatar. Like, I've worked with a lot of women like you. And you're, look. I'm just like my wife. When the you-know-what hits the fan, like, I want Maggie. But the you-know-what is not hitting the fan all the time. Yeah. So we have to figure out how to do things in a way that aren't just breaking you down.

1:36:30Sal Di Stefano:You live in such a great place, too. British Columbia is beautiful. And there's, you know, I mean, it's such a great place to be outside and hike. And so I love that as a goal for you. Go take long hikes.

1:36:39Adam Schafer:Have you ever considered working with a coach to have someone kind of guide you through this?

1:36:44Justin Andrews:Yes, I have. I've chatted with a woman locally, and she actually works with a team. I haven't pulled the plug on it yet, but it's something I kind of have been thinking about yet.

1:36:57Adam Schafer:Okay. So we have coaches, and if working virtually with a coach is something that you might be interested in, I can have someone call you. I know our coaches are good and I know they'll coach you properly. A good coach is so valuable. Bad ones are terrible, but a good coach is really, really valuable. And so I could have someone call you and you can kind of talk about it and see what that would look like for someone like you. Cause I think you would thrive with guidance. I think with guidance, you would really crush somebody in your head. Yeah.

1:37:28Justin Andrews:Awesome. Okay. Yeah. I would love that. Thank you so much.

1:37:30Adam Schafer:Perfect. All right. Perfect. We'll have someone reach out to you. Thanks. Kill it. Doing great.

1:37:34Justin Andrews:Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

1:37:36Adam Schafer:You got it.

1:37:37Sal Di Stefano:yeah that's such an avatar oh yeah i mean you did so great of like asking her you know what are the reasons for all this stuff like that knowing knowing where she's going to go and it's like uh yeah i mean she goes from the i want it for the meditative reasons to like marathon well let's let's hold on here we could right to the throat yeah i was gonna say we could uh we could we could do a nice jog outside or a hike outside and get a lot of those benefits we don't

1:38:04Adam Schafer:have to go straight to a marathon you know what the problem is too for for people like maggie and this is true for men too is she's 38 now right her her methods worked really well for a while yeah for a while she was like grind go crush push through and get there and then it just adds up it adds up and then after a year suddenly you're like this isn't working i feel terrible okay so

1:38:24Sal Di Stefano:let me let me add to that too that said for the listener and also maggie who might listen to this the worst thing that could happen is that she does the marathon and sees some sort of positive change physically. That is the worst thing that could happen. She signs up for her marathon that she's told herself, I do this for many reasons. Oh, and I got leaner.

1:38:44Adam Schafer:Just reinforces. Yeah.

1:38:45Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I got a little leaner or I look a little bit better than what I did. You were commenting. Oh, yeah. And then now all of a sudden it becomes that. But the truth is that wouldn't happen. She would do the marathon and her body would start shutting down. Yeah, most likely would push. Speak to her. And so that's probably what would happen, though, at 28 and 32, is that she would do something like that, and then it would reinforce this, I love this thing, I love this, because it also gave a little bit of that. And so, yeah, no, the worst case, and again, that's why I say that, because maybe there's somebody who's in their early 30s that's listening to this, and this is their method.

1:39:19Sal Di Stefano:By the way, one of my closest friends' wives is a nurse. Her method to getting in shape has always been the marathon run, and now she's approaching 40, and it's such a different battle right now. But that was how she'd get in shape is, oh, I just signed up for my America.

1:39:31Adam Schafer:And by the way, if you're in your 20s and you're like, oh, cool, I can do that and get in shape, there's still a better, faster way. Oh, yeah. It's in spite of the crappy way you're approaching as your body's getting in shape, but there's a much faster way to do it. Our next caller is Nikki from Ontario. Hey, Nikki. How you doing, Nikki? Good to see you again, man. Hey, gotcha. Hopefully this time we don't lose connection. Yeah. Yes.

1:39:53Justin Andrews:Yes.

1:39:53Adam Schafer:All right, let's go. It's going on, man. Let's start over. So tell us what's going on. Should I start over?

1:39:58Justin Andrews:Like, yeah. Okay. I'm going to go short because I really like, I need you guys to just talk. I need to hear you guys. Okay. So history of, uh, uh, it's hard cause I was the only guy, uh, in an in treatment program for anorexia for in the early two thousands, uh, stayed there about three years outpatient. Uh, growing up, uh, I was really big. I know you guys hear that all the time, but it was true. I was a chubby Italian guy. My mom fed me everything.

1:40:33Justin Andrews:And then, so I started doing training. I think I was doing it all wrong. I fell into the Beachbody programs. And then I was, now the last few years, I was following other people, you know, the whole RP scandal and everything like that. So I was looking for someone to trust. I stumbled onto you guys. and it was honestly like i know you guys hear it all the time but you guys are amazing like honestly like you guys are so good like thanks man all three of you and four of you actually with doug i love how you roast them about google um i can't help it thanks nicky um so here uh i work as a tech i'm a work at bmw so i'm on my feet um i'm i my libido is crazy down.

1:41:23Justin Andrews:Like, I feel like garbage. I like, I'm, I'm not trying to lose weight, but I, like I was trying keto and then now trying to get carbs back. Like I listened to you guys and you guys are talking about whole foods and even from like potatoes and rice. And I'm like, I don't know. I just want to hear you say it like that. It actually works. And also with training, like I was doing every day and I'm at the gym and I'm not getting stronger. I know that. Um, but I'm watching other people do it and you guys are uh preaching the three days a week four days a week like I looked at anabolic because I was like hey that looks pretty good I need an actual structured program and uh what do I know in the off there's what do I do in the three other days I know you have the functional one but is it also can I really just take a day off or to do nothing like um I have a kid um I'm about I think I'm I weighed myself so I'm 165 uh five five uh i try to i try not to track my macros i mean except protein but i'm pretty low and it's it's just it's just hard it's hard i know you guys tell all the time you guys hear all the calls because they listen to you guys so much about like people trying to get their stuff in and they can't and you just got to do it and like i just need to hear you say that really like Honestly, an anabolic thing actually works.

1:42:51Justin Andrews:It changes people. You reduce the volume. It goes up. Because I go to the gym. I see these guys, and they're there all the time. Why are they so successful? Why am I not successful when they're there every day pumping and doing whatever they're doing?

1:43:07Adam Schafer:I hear you, Nicky. I hear you, man. Yell at me. Yell at me. No, no, no, no. Listen, I think you beat yourself up enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me ask you a question. you're at you're saying i i want to know if it works uh what do you define that what do you mean what would be works what would be successful for you okay so i wrote some notes down like you guys

1:43:25Justin Andrews:preach the reverse time when i say preach i don't mean in a bad way you guys talk about the reverse diet and then um and then you say you you just stop you you figure out when to stop like if i i would you guys uh referred me to a coach but i just can't afford it like i was speaking to rob and it's just, I'm sorry. I appreciate it, but it was just out of my range. I got you. Especially right now. No, I understand. So how do you know when to stop? And working in the sense that you feel good and you're getting stronger, but obviously you're not getting fatter. Okay, I understand you're saying you're going to get a little bit, but I'm not talking about bloat.

1:44:04Justin Andrews:Not bloat, but I want to maintain, uh i don't know like i guess i guess 34 33 you know what i mean like i don't want to but i want to feel better you okay so what works to define works for you is feel better i guess yeah like i want my libido back i want my testosterone back like i want i want i want

1:44:28Adam Schafer:to have a kid we're trying and i can't okay would you say that um that means being healthy you gotta improve your health okay okay um so let's start here um do you think you're somebody that uh is worthy of being taken care of i ask myself a lot well you got to have the answer nikki yeah yeah you got it you got to say yes it has to be a hell yes you got to say yes well yes okay okay that's a good place to start um you you definitely need to outsource all this control, dude. Cause I'm telling you, I can tell right now, if I tell you whatever I tell you to do, it's good. You're going to turn it into, um, uh, a control thing.

1:45:11Adam Schafer:Um, and yeah. And so I think you need to outsource it to a coach. I know you talked to one of our coaches. We are pricey cause we're good. Uh, I'm going to give you some free coaching. I'm going to give you a few months with one of our coaches. Cause I think you need to outsource this and work with somebody and have somebody work with you through this process. And what I mean by that, Nikki, is this is all you got to do. All you got to do is say to yourself, I'm worthy of someone, I am worth taking care of. I got a kid, I got a wife, I am valuable, I'm worth taking care of. So I'm just going to listen to what this coach is saying, even though it doesn't feel right, even though maybe they're telling me to eat too much food because it feels like that to me, even though they're telling me to work out two days a week and I want to go work out every single day.

1:45:59Adam Schafer:Uh, I know I don't take care of myself very well. I know my history. I can't trust myself. I got to trust somebody else. So I'm just going to follow what they say. And I think, uh, a few months of that should give you a better perspective on what this kind of looks like. Is that all right? Okay. And then, and then all the questions you have, they'll answer, but they're going to walk you through the steps because yes, reverse diet's probably what you're going to have to do. Definitely you'll get better results, strength training less than every single day, for sure. But we got to get you in a different space around this.

1:46:35Adam Schafer:You need more than just the blueprint. That's right.

1:46:37Sal Di Stefano:You need more than, we could sit here and lay out the blueprint of what it is, but you need more than that, Nikki. And we knew that the first time that we talked to you and that hasn't changed and it's literally what you need to do right now with the place that you're at. If you want to be successful at this, you have to outsource.

1:46:51Adam Schafer:And pay attention to your energy, libido, and strength. Don't look at the mirror. Don't look at the scale. Don't worry about your, you know, if you think things are fitting tighter or looser, focus on those other things. And then you'll start to define your success by your actual health, not by the things that maybe you defined it by before, which, you know, can lead us towards a dark path. Does that make sense?

1:47:16Justin Andrews:It does. Now, if I could just ask a question about that yes um like so you're okay if i don't look at the mirror which i'm trying not to now because i am trying to kind of eat more um how do you how are you guys as coaches strength and it's kind of stop me strength no no strength we're watching strength we don't need listen

1:47:39Adam Schafer:you're not gonna nicky you're not gonna you're not gonna gain 100 pounds of body yeah they're

1:47:42Sal Di Stefano:not gonna put you they're not gonna put you on a 500 to a thousand calories more every single day it's going to be small incremental bumps that we know the math. We know the science of that. You could over, you could overeat 250 calories a day every single day for the next month. And you won't put on a pound of two pounds of body fat.

1:47:58Adam Schafer:How long you listen, how long you've been listening to mind pump.

1:48:01Justin Andrews:It's about maybe five months now.

1:48:03Adam Schafer:Five months. Okay. Be honest with me. Do you trust? I listen to you.

1:48:06Justin Andrews:Like it's about like two episodes a day. Okay. Do you trust us?

1:48:11Adam Schafer:You trust us? You have no idea how much I love you guys. Like, Oh my God. Okay. listen, you're going to just have to trust your coach. Trust us that we hire coaches who are good and that we watch them and that we know what they're doing. Trust that. Cause that's the only thing that's going to carry you through the first month or two. Cause the first month or two, you're going to be telling yourself this, I got to do this. I don't know. What if I get too much fat? What if I, this just trust, trust, trust now, now there'll be a point where you're not going to have, I'm not going to have to ask you that anymore because then you'll start to see, oh my gosh this is working but in the beginning you're just gonna have to trust uh our coach

1:48:46Sal Di Stefano:yep it's gonna be tough and you gotta give it a little bit of time because you've you've beat yourself up pretty bad for a while and so the body doesn't just all sudden you know week one we do this all sudden you're oh my god this is amazing i see everything already it's like trust the process trust the process but on the and it's gonna be hard but on the other side of that nikki oh my god it's so freeing and you're gonna feel amazing we're gonna fix this dude

1:49:09Justin Andrews:we're in your corner man libido is going to be up talk yeah you talked about that and i'm like i want to be that guy like i want to you will that i want to you i want to call you know i want to be that guy that calls back and be like you know it worked and you will be that guy but the thing that

1:49:24Sal Di Stefano:sal asked you is so important you have to believe you deserve it first yeah you have to believe you deserve it first and then when you believe that and then you outsource it you trust me which we're going to take care of for you you literally just got to follow the steps and do and stick to it

1:49:38Adam Schafer:and then you will be that guy we're gonna have a coach call you you get three months for free with a mind pump coach and then i'm gonna have you back on the phone here that's right and we'll

1:49:46Justin Andrews:talk to you again in three months follow up can i just have one nutrition question yeah you talk about uh uh whole foods like like carbs now is oats in that category like let's say if you want to have like make like a protein uh cold oats in the morning you know what i mean yeah yeah that's I hear you guys talk about potatoes and rice a lot, but what about... Oats are fine. Oats are fine. It's just because they're easily digestible.

1:50:11Adam Schafer:Yeah, some people have issues digesting oats, but usually they're pretty good. Okay. Yeah, you're good, dude. You're good, bro. This is going to be good. I'm going to see you in 90 days, Nicky.

1:50:22Sal Di Stefano:We'll take care of the rest. Okay?

1:50:23Adam Schafer:And listen, in between the 90 days, if you want to see me, tell your coach, I want to get Sal on here with me for one session, and I'll pop in.

1:50:33Sal Di Stefano:Thank you.

1:50:33Adam Schafer:All right?

1:50:34Sal Di Stefano:All right, Nicky.

1:50:34Adam Schafer:We'll see you. We'll see you. We'll see you soon, dude.

1:50:36Justin Andrews:All right, take care. Take it easy, buddy. All the best.

1:50:40Adam Schafer:Yeah, you could just hear the desperation, the fear. That's why we sent him that way to begin with. And look, coaching is a big investment. It's worth it, but it is a big investment. But I want to see this guy do well, and I think he will. I don't think it'll happen without a coach, though. No. No, it won't. Are you kidding me?

1:50:57Sal Di Stefano:I mean, he hesitated to say that he believes he deserves it. Yeah. I know. If you don't believe you deserve it, there's no way you're doing it by yourself. I mean, it's still going to be challenging with a coach.

1:51:08Adam Schafer:It's going to be hard as heck with a coach. Yeah. Impossible without one.

1:51:11Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, exactly. If you have that mindset already where you're unsure if you even deserved to be taken care of, the thought that you are going to do that on your own is crazy. And just having a coach is going to be hard. It's going to be difficult. And so hopefully you trust the coach. Hopefully that he sticks through it.

1:51:31Adam Schafer:We got the best coaches.

1:51:33Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, no, I feel confident if he sticks with it. If he sticks with it, he's going to be okay. Totally. Watch the difference of the sound in his voice. In three months. Oh, yeah. I'll know as soon as he gets on. I'll look forward to that. I'll know as soon as he gets on. Yep. I don't have to see him. I don't even know the metric. I'll know by his voice when he gets on. That's right.

1:51:49Adam Schafer:That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

1:51:57Justin Andrews:dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, Check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com.

1:52:44Justin Andrews:If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump. Are you noticing your car insurance rate creep up even without tickets or claims? You're not alone. That's why there's Jerry, your proactive insurance assistant. Jerry handles the legwork by comparing quotes side-by-side from over 50 top insurers, so you can confidently hit buy. No spam calls, no hidden fees. Jerry even tracks rates and alerts you when it's best to shop.

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