2856: BIGGEST HEALTH LIES ! Stop Following This Advice , It's Been Wrong for 40 Years | Mind Pump 2856

15:15Adam Schafer:Now, the fat, carbs, they don't make you fat. Too many calories make you fat. It's obviously more complex than that. but it created a whole generation of people that went in the opposite direction. By the way, low-fat, low-carb diets both have terrible adherence, so they're both just as equally ineffective. If you have to pick one, I'd go low-carb because fats are essential and you can cause some serious health problems, but super low-carb is also not.

15:40Sal Di Stefano:I think any diet that eliminates or tries to eliminate a macro is just a bad idea. I mean, I think that's a good general rule. It's like if it's telling you to completely eliminate a macronutrient, obviously, if it's one of the essential ones, it's really ridiculous. But even if it's carbohydrates, to totally do that and then to think that you're going to go the rest of your life. That was the biggest problem I had with the carnivore ketogenic type of diet. It's just like just so unrealistic. Yeah. And I understand with health issues and for the. There's some extreme cases where it seems to help.

16:17Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, totally.

16:18Adam Schafer:Ketogenic, by the way, the original ketogenic diet was a medical diet. There were medical applications for it.

16:23Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. But like we always do, I feel like, in the health and wellness space, is we bastardize something like that because it's something that was used in the – I mean, again, I feel like we're on the cusp of that right now with GLP-1s. This is something that's been around for a really long time. We were medically prescribing it to people that really, really needed it, that were morbidly obese, and this was the option to save their life. And now it's turned into everybody who wants to lose five or 10 pounds. But just throw them at people. Yeah. I mean, that's where it's getting used to. Are you guys paying attention to all the commercials and ads and the pill forms now and all the celebrities that are endorsing you?

17:05Sal Di Stefano:Well, I'm going to tell you right now,

17:06Adam Schafer:two-thirds of America will be on a jail cell.

17:08Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, you called out. I thought that was aggressive when you first said it, but I don't disagree anymore. And now I'm willing to potentially retract what I said as an argument with you early on, which was it was going to be a net positive. I'm not sure anymore. It's become so popular. I knew some people would abuse it. But we're quickly getting to the place where more people that shouldn't use it are using it than the ones that probably need it or should be using it.

17:38Adam Schafer:Melted bodies are a thing now. Yeah, gosh. Yeah, so what makes you fat is eating more than you burn. It's obviously more complex than that. We've done lots of episodes going into detail. But it's not carbs or fats that are bad. Fats are essential. And carbohydrates give you energy. And going too low carb for too long oftentimes causes hormone issues in people, especially women. And believe it or not, going no carb for too long can actually cause insulin resistance, which sounds like it shouldn't be the case. but you can see the data. In fact, people like Dr. Mercola, who was like super pro no carb, now advises everybody, you got to have carbs at least a couple days a week to avoid that.

18:20Adam Schafer:Next up, low sodium. Avoid sodium. So bad for you. It's so funny because it's like, we do this to things that are essential. Sodium is essential. You'll die without sodium. You need sodium. Yeah, there's wars just because everybody needed it. Ancient world fought over salt. They used to actually kill each other. because it's still very pervasive.

18:41Sal Di Stefano:Yes. I was going to say it's remained very popular up until, I want to credit one of our partners' element with this. I mean, up until that point, nobody was even putting the right amount of sodium in electrolytes, which is a supplement that's supposed to help replenish that, and there wasn't an appropriate dose. That's how overly we were compensating on the other direction. Yeah. We're doing all sugar instead of salt. It really was when they hit the scene. And I remember we didn't even look at the product for almost a year in our studio because up until that point, every electrolyte that came out before was a bunch of bullshit.

19:21Sal Di Stefano:It was something that didn't even have the effective dose of sodium to replenish. It had like 100 milligrams of sodium. So I remember you wouldn't even look at it. And then you open the box one day and you're like, oh, my God, this is like the first electrolyte. And so I feel like we're barely going the other direction. To your point, I think it still is. Yeah. I find myself constantly having to educate and talk to my friends even too, like that this is healthy. This is something that your body needs to have adequate amounts of electrolytes and salt.

19:53Adam Schafer:And even just for hydration, you need it. So there are special populations that need to control sodium intake. Such a small, though. They're pretty ill already. um otherwise uh and you know here's why the data showed that there was a correlation between a high sodium diet and worse health outcomes what you're looking at if you take process 5 000 people yeah and you just and you just take their dietary information and you look at sodium i can correlate high sodium with poor health easily but it's not because it's the sodium it's processed foods that's right. When I look at high sodium for the average person, what I'm typically looking at is a diet that is very high in processed foods.

20:39Adam Schafer:And so if you don't control for that, you're throwing in a bunch of people. This is why they thought for a long time that coffee caused cancer. But this is true. Not that it was decades ago, but studies came out showing that coffee drinkers had more cancer. It's because they didn't control, you know, back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, the heaviest coffee drinkers were smokers. And so they didn't control for smoking. They just looked at coffee. They're like, oh my God, everybody who drinks the most coffee gets a bunch of cancer. Which is funny because the opposite is true. Coffee has anti-cancer effects.

21:10Adam Schafer:We just had to control for that. Coffee was helping you. That's right. Yeah. So sodium, when you just look at sodium, if you want to pick out high processed food intake, one easy way to do it without going, digging deeper, is look at who's consuming the most sodium. You'll almost always see whoever's consuming the most sodium that's consuming a lot of heavily processed foods.

21:29Sal Di Stefano:Okay, which is, if you understand, if you look at any box food or frozen processed stuff, they load the shit out of it. So it preserves it. So it's a strategy.

21:41Adam Schafer:It's also an ingredient palatability.

21:43Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, it makes it more palatable, but even more importantly, it extends the shelf life, which is probably one of the most important reasons why they load it with as much. Because you can get away with just adding some sodium in there to make it taste a little bit better, but they put so much in there, and it's to preserve how long it lasts.

21:58Adam Schafer:It's more about the palatability. Oh, you think so? Yeah, because they could preserve. Salt used to preserve food back in the day before modern ways of preserving. What it is is that food companies, when they make a processed food, the goal is to make it as palatable as possible. Duh. So every ingredient in there is put in there to make it as palatable as possible. One of the ingredients in palatability is sodium. So is fat. salt and fat and sugar one of them comes with the other two come with calories one of them doesn't come with calories that's right so salt sugar and fat are the three main ingredients in palatability now food scientists have gone way crazy with this they've also they've added chemicals and color they know how to change the texture they they do all kinds of crazy stuff to make food like a doritos chip is hyper hyper palatable because of all the stuff that they've figured out with science.

22:52Adam Schafer:This is why you overeat processed foods. It's a master class in ultra-processing. Totally. But salt is an ingredient. So you want to, by the way, Element is a great example. So going back to sodium, I agree with you. I think Element was the first one to courageously put out a product that's 1 ,000 milligrams. Oh my God, 1 ,000 milligrams? A serving? Like, that's crazy. First off, if you need electrolytes, you need a decent amount of salt. Number two, it's sugar-free. There's no artificial sweeteners. Why does it taste so good? It's 1 ,000 milligrams of sodium. So Element was like brilliant in a lot of the directions that they went.

23:24Adam Schafer:So sodium is an ingredient in palatability. But here's the deal. If you eat a heavily processed food diet, you're going to be unhealthy for the most part. If you don't eat a heavily processed food diet, you eat whole natural foods, especially if you work out, especially if you work in the sun, you need to add salt to your diet. And salting your food is often not enough.

23:46Sal Di Stefano:I'm so stuck on this palatability reason is why you think the whole thing is because why is it then, Sal, if you were to measure, like you cook whole foods and you personally salted it, and I mean salted it up, you wouldn't even come close to the amount of sodium that's in this packaged food to make it taste good. In fact, if you put the amount of salt, like a salt shaker on your food, to equate to the same amount of sodium that's in a processed food, it would taste good. It wouldn't taste good. It wouldn't taste good. It was like you'd be over salted. You'd be like, oh, I taste this salt.

24:22Adam Schafer:It's the combination of things that they put in there, which allow the palatability meter to keep scaling up. So you could can foods with no sodium that'll last a long time. You could box them. You could freeze them that'll last a long time. It's all about palatability. and they've got the science down. That's so wild to me when you think of it like that

24:39Sal Di Stefano:because that's the other thing that I remember I teach clients is that -

24:42Adam Schafer:Because they're like a balance between salt, fat, sugar. And so they know how to keep raising the bar and it typically looks like a lot.

24:49Sal Di Stefano:It's crazy when you think of the science that then has to go into that because I remember when I first started teaching clients that they could go freely salt their food. When they were eating whole foods and I'd put them on there, they'd be like, well, how much can I season it and salt it? I'm like, go to town. I'm like, what do you mean go to town? I'm like, should I measure? I'm like, no, salt it all up. I don't care. Like as much as you like for it to taste good. And I remember them having a hard time to wrap their brain around because it's around this time when sodium is so bad for you. And I'm like, listen, we're eating all these whole foods.

25:19Sal Di Stefano:You're not in, you're literally your sodium intake is cut to one fourth just by going from processed whole foods and salting the shit out of it. So it's interesting that you can't even, it's almost like you can't. I mean, obviously it's possible, but it'd be really difficult to salt your whole foods to come even close not even close i remember i saw i used to have this thing i kept it in my in my trainer area years ago and it showed what uh one like fast food meal yeah was of sodium like one like supersized meal at mcdonald's was like somebody who ate whole foods and salted all their food for like a week yeah yeah like one one one meal out was equivalent to a person who ate three or four square meal whole food meals a day and salted

26:07Adam Schafer:all of them would take the same it was crazy have you guys ever accidentally bought a processed food that was low sodium like peanut butter like you don't even realize oh peanut butter's got a lot of sodium go eat low sodium peanut butter it's gross well that's why i think it's it's it's so

26:22Sal Di Stefano:embedded in there that like you don't taste the salt necessarily but you start looking at the packaging of all these things and you see the amount and it's it's astonishing how much they like pack in yeah yeah i've had it ugh so disgusting uh sodium from the dietary sodium

26:39Adam Schafer:uh 70 of it comes from processed and restaurant foods 70 yeah the vast majority and not all the sodium in processed foods is salt so it's not salty necessarily because they use msg or sodium nitrate. MSGs. And so that doesn't taste salty, but it's used to preserve the food. Okay, yeah.

27:00Sal Di Stefano:See, that makes a little more sense to me because it's just like, it doesn't make sense that, because if you were to salt even anywhere remotely close to that,

27:07Adam Schafer:MSG, gluten, and sugar making and everything. So here's what happened too, Adam. Everybody got afraid of sodium, so companies figured out how to use other preservatives to increase palatability and to preserve the food that weren't sodium. So now you get low-sodium food.

27:21Sal Di Stefano:Is that where the MSG came from originally?

27:23Adam Schafer:I think it's been used for longer than that for a very long time actually that we've also learned about the addictive properties of msg too right yeah yeah no it's interesting but yeah so uh and by the way i started pieced this together as a trainer because i'd have i when i pieced together if i just tell my clients to eat as much as they want but avoid processed foods it was such a game changer you guys it was like it was the craziest dietary light bulb moment of my entire career suddenly I had all these clients who could eat as much as they want. Just avoid processed food. Everybody's losing weight.

27:56Adam Schafer:Everybody's getting better shape. Everybody feels full.

27:58Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

27:58Adam Schafer:But then I, my most consistent clients, I started to have to recommend like more sodium electrolytes because they'd get some of the symptoms of low sodium. No. Because processed foods are so high in sodium. And when you make food, even if you salt it, it's not nearly, not nearly as much.

28:16Sal Di Stefano:I think, do you think that's the pushback? because there's still some pushback on electrolyte products like Element in the fitness space. And I think it's related to comparing to the average American who still eats tons of processed foods. But I think that there's a bit of a bias there. It's like if you're listening to a health and fitness podcast, you're probably trying to eat better and exercise.

28:38Adam Schafer:I'll give you two options. Here's the deal. If you have a crappy, heavily processed food diet and you're like, yeah, I'm going to throw more sodium at myself because I need it, you're wrong. That being said, if you're eating a heavily processed food diet and you love things that taste good, you probably also love drinks that taste good. And I'm going to make this, I'll make this case all day long. You're way better off drinking Element than soda. So go for the sodium if you want something to taste good versus your Coke. It's going to be way better for you. So that's my argument. So even in that context.

29:11Adam Schafer:Even in that context. Next up, avoid the sun. This one's one of my favorites. This one still pisses people off. I know. It still pisses me off. Dude, I got some new data for you guys on this one. I actually saved it because it's pretty well. And the sun isn't always kind to me. Yeah. So you want to not get sunburn. That's it, though. Okay, but they turned it into, like, sunscreen yourself all the time, stay out of the sun. So you start reading all the chemicals they put in frigging sunscreen. Four studies were put together, and here's what they found. all cause mortality in people who avoid sun was two times higher there was people who got a lot of UV exposure 16 % drop in all cause mortality 36 % drop in cardiovascular and stroke events so you know what's interesting about this avoiding the sun like it's the plague is as bad for you as smoking stay inside what have we done to people and not only that but the sunscreen people are using it's these crazy chemicals that have like hormone effects like stay out of the sun bad idea but oh it's bad for you they're lying and then on top of where you slowly die then they're like slather this crazy chemical stuff all over your face and body yeah and put it on your kids too everybody before they go to school wild i'm so

30:28Sal Di Stefano:curious if i'm going to be able to see like a feel or see like a true measurable effect because i understand what all the studies say when you when you talk about sun and then also like the sauna which so like this has been like this ever since i got the sauna i mean i'm almost daily dude almost daily the routine is to do that plunge into the pool which is cold and then sit sit laying out in my little chair and even when it's like an overcast day i still sit out there because you still get lots of sun and so even this last week when we've had kind of like low 70s and it's not really like a pool day or layout yeah i'm so hot from the sauna that the it feels good to cool off in the pool and then still lay out there like that and so i've been doing that every single day what i'm really curious what if i'm gonna notice anything like that is measurable from consistently using uh the sauna and being out in the sun and like i'm doing this like daily right now and yeah i know what all the research says about all cause mortality on both the sauna and the sun and this is just i've never been this consistent with both of them at least not since i was a kid with the sun for sure laying out uh almost daily and then in addition to that i've never had a sauna that i've had access daily to uh and so to be doing both of those i'm curious to see if like sleep energy skin sure you'll feel it i know like i definitely feel better like i can already tell the difference that it does feel good but i'm so curious if like there's gonna be like a measurable I mean, do you have any theories if I'll see a measurable difference or I'll be able to point to it?

32:06Adam Schafer:Yeah, I think so. I think immediately you probably already feel better. Better skin, I would imagine. Yeah, and I think as you continue doing it, you're going to notice more and more health benefits. But it's one of those things that if you do it for a while and then stop for a while, that's when you'll notice.

32:21Sal Di Stefano:I feel like that's with everything. I feel like a lot of stuff.

32:24Adam Schafer:Like if suddenly you stop going out in the sun for a while.

32:26Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, no, I think a lot of stuff that we talk about is like that, Sal. Like the reason why I feel like we can talk so much about it, we've been doing this for so long, and there's been many times in probably all of our lives where there was something that we did consistently, health and fitness related, and then didn't do it. And it's the didn't do it part that I actually, I think I noticed the most. It's like, sometimes it's really hard. A lot of the stuff that we talk about, like, oh, this has got this much percentage of benefits and it's this will help you with that. And it's like, and a lot of people would argue like, I didn't really notice a difference, you know, but it's like if you do it long enough consistently and then you don't do it is when you tend to really notice the difference.

33:02Adam Schafer:Here's the thing. If you took someone, put them out in the sun and then measured the UV exposure, stress factors, you would see some bad stuff happening. By the way, you would see that with exercise too. You go do a workout, it's a stress on the body. Now, can you work out so hard that you damage yourself and cause problems? Yes. The workout needs to be appropriate. So does the sun exposure. If you never go out in the sun, you got to go out little by little and build up your tolerance. Sunburn is not good for you. That's the issue. But going out in the sun and avoiding it all the time, that'd be like saying exercise is stress.

33:37Adam Schafer:Avoid it. Avoid it like the plague. Terrible idea.

33:39Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Is there any, like, studies that have really teased that out in terms of, like, the long-term, like, chronic exposure, like, burning level versus just, like, you know, frequency and dosing of it?

33:52Adam Schafer:There is. So you can find data on sunburns. When people get a bunch of sunburns, that's a problem. But people who go out and work out in the sun, around the sun, who've built that cowlice, they live longer. They generally live longer. They're also outside more, which has its own implications.

34:07Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, because, Mel, that's the biggest scare. You know that we're always getting inundated with for cream and whatever. Even makeup has sunblock now. It's everywhere.

34:18Adam Schafer:It's wild. All right, next up, the last one. And this one is changing. but for a long time, like if you wanted to get lean and you were going to exercise, like don't lift weights. That's the worst way to get lean. This was believed for a long time. It still is believed by people and I would say the older generations because they grew up in our, you know. I would say it's still.

34:40Sal Di Stefano:Same ones that think you're going to turn a linebacker. I'd say it's still really popular in general pop, dude. We had a video not that long ago that went viral that was talking about this. in fact I think it was a video where we were ranked the staff had us rank things for fat loss and I think we put cardio like the bottom and lifting weights at obviously the top and because it went viral and it went beyond our little network I feel like within our network or our bubble I feel like this is kind of common it's become common knowledge and more people are aware but this reached beyond that And there's a lot of people that were like, these idiots.

35:23Sal Di Stefano:So I don't know. I think that when general pop still, this is the prevailing theory is that cardio is the best way to lose body fat. Weight training is not for that.

35:35Adam Schafer:So cardio burns more calories than other forms of exercise. That's true. And fat loss does occur when there's a calorie deficit, when you burn more than you take in or take in less than you consume. But cardio is not muscle sparing. So if that's the primary way that you exercise to lose weight with a calorie deficit type diet, you'll see a lot of muscle loss. You'll see 40 % of your weight come from muscle. Strength training is muscle preserving. It doesn't burn as many calories, but it also tends to move your resting caloric burn up through metabolism boosting. Okay? So it's just – it's a great way to get lean.

36:16Adam Schafer:if you had to pick one form of exercise to get lean in combination with other lifestyle factors because just exercise by itself isn't a great way to get lean it's a great way to get healthy but not lean but if you had to pick one uh strength training is king uh but a lot of people don't realize that don't know that they think because it doesn't burn as many calories or what they'll do is they'll hear strength training is good uh it could be good for fat loss let me just turn it into cardio so i'm going to do a bunch of circuits and stuff like that because it burns more calories But we now know it's the best way to burn body fat and definitely the best way to preserve and, of course, build muscle.

36:54Adam Schafer:Anyway, back to Element. Have you guys – do you guys see their new lemonade iced tea? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

37:00Sal Di Stefano:Tastes like an Arnold Palmer. It's got a little bit of caffeine, 50 milligrams of caffeine.

37:03Adam Schafer:I tried it over the weekend.

37:05Sal Di Stefano:Katrina was pumped about that. So Katrina doesn't take a lot of caffeine. She's really sensitive to it. And so 50 milligrams for somebody who doesn't drink. It's perfect. Caffeine actually gives you.

37:18Adam Schafer:They put theenine in it too. So it balances it out. So you have like a longer lasting. So it's electrolyte. Plus, if you don't have a lot of caffeine and you're in a hard workout.

37:26Sal Di Stefano:Theenine drives it.

37:27Adam Schafer:This is a great way to fuel your workout.

37:29Sal Di Stefano:Well, you're also low caffeine too, right, Doug? Yeah. Yeah, you're not a big caffeine drinker either. Right. Now, would you try a 50 milligram or is that too much? Oh, absolutely. Okay. So that's not too much. You don't do well with pre-workout stuff that's like 200 milligrams. Yeah, I've pretty much enjoyed it because I don't feel great with caffeine. But theanine does actually help a lot. Oh, yeah.

37:48Adam Schafer:The studies on theanine and caffeine.

37:49Sal Di Stefano:And I imagine, because I know what theanine feels like with 100 or 200 milligrams of caffeine. I'm sure with a nice mild dose of 50 milligrams, it's probably really easy for someone like you or Katrina. Totally.

37:58Adam Schafer:I got a cool study for you guys. That's really, I mean, it's going viral right now. And it's going viral because it compares two groups of people. and it shows, well, how you can predict happiness. I'll just say that. So check this out. Poor Americans, so people who are below, like not middle class are considered poor, who go to church several times a week are happier than wealthy Americans who don't go to church. So you could be poor, go to church a few days a week. Self-reported. And they report that they're happier. So 36 % of people who are poor who go to church several times a week are happy.

38:45Adam Schafer:26 % of wealthy Americans who don't go to church are happy. Isn't that wild? Now, the happiest group, of course, is wealthy Americans that go to church. Yeah.

38:57Sal Di Stefano:Let's shoot for that.

38:58Adam Schafer:So what this is not saying is that being poor is not a factor, right? If you're poor, it's hard to make ends meet. It's a mindset, yeah. That definitely can affect your quality of life, for sure. It's not saying that it doesn't. But what I think is wild is that it's more – a better predictor is being in that community, going to church. Yeah. Pretty cool. It's the purpose of it. Pretty cool.

39:20Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I wonder how that compares to just any sort of person who is involved in something community-driven and relationships. I'm glad you said that. Okay, cool. You have something for that? Yes.

39:36Adam Schafer:Yeah, I'm glad you said that. So being in an active community is really great for happiness. So having great relationships, meaningful relationships, the data is good on that. But when you compare it to church for whatever reason, I think I know the answer, but again, I'm Christian, church is actually better. But that doesn't mean it's not great to just be in community. It's very good to be in community.

40:02Sal Di Stefano:Well, I think there's a way to even being – if you were not a Christian, you could still unpack that. I mean you're believing in a higher power than yourself. It's offloading control. Right. You offload that, right? Yeah. That everything happens for a reason, good or bad or indifferent. Explain everything.

40:23Adam Schafer:There's a good ending.

40:24Sal Di Stefano:Right. You know? So, yeah, there's hope right there. So I think that it pairs community with that, which has got to be where that comes from, right? Just community by itself has positive benefits, but that could lack purpose. It could lack the personal responsibility. Like, it could lack a lot of things.

40:45Adam Schafer:I have limited experience because I haven't been to like a million and one different churches. So I'm sure it's different. I know people have had bad experiences. I've been to a lot. Yeah, you've been a ton. Yeah, you have. You actually beat me. So I know that because I've also recently looked at data on relationships and they're not all the same. I brought this up on a previous episode, but there's like a lot of people have what are called duty-free friendships. I think I brought this up a few episodes ago. Absolutely no duties. Yeah. So duty-free friendships are like friends, but you don't do life together.

41:18Adam Schafer:So it's like, hey, how you doing? Oh, I'm good. We're cool. How's your kids? Yeah, like I don't suffer with you. We don't like really let each other in on our struggles and stuff. It's like we like to keep people at arm's distance and we're cool. And that's better than nothing. But it's not the same as like real relationships. You actually didn't talk about this on the podcast.

41:38Sal Di Stefano:You talked about this in a question you asked a live caller called in. Oh. A lady came in and you were giving her, it was our lady who called in a second time. Yes, yes. Because it's the first time I actually heard you use that term. Yes. So probably the regular audience has not heard that unless you listen to all the live callers. Because that's the first time I'd heard you refer to that as a duty.

41:59Adam Schafer:Yeah, and I know in my experience, again, this is what I've seen. So I go to a great church. I have such a great community. And I know that our faith encourages this. It encourages confessing to each other, doing life, forgiving, grace. People are people, so you're always going to get messed up people. But it kind of encourages like this deeper type of relationship. And so I think that could definitely be a part of it. But again, I think when you look at the data on this duty-free kind of friendship thing, that's exploded. You know, it used to be back in the day like your family, everybody lived close to each other, so they know your business.

42:36Adam Schafer:or your neighborhood, everybody knows your business. It sounds like a bad thing, and I can get that. I can get you don't want anybody to know your business, but now you don't have real close friends.

42:46Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, what do you think that is the big determining factor for that? First of all, men are bad at this stuff already. Terrible. So men are already worse, generally speaking. But then what separates, let's say, even the three of them? What makes that different in each one of us? Like, is it more child, like what we grew up, our childhood? What do you think separates even the three of us with that? Like the way we are with relationships with people like that? Why one of us would have more or less of that? What do you think it's caused by? I don't know.

43:18Adam Schafer:I can't speak to everybody. I can speak to myself. I think I feel like, I know how I used to feel. It's changed a lot. So it's totally different now. But, you know, you asked me five years ago. I felt good being the friend that was there for somebody. but if you were there for me, now I felt like a burden. So why would I share my challenges? Yeah, where do you think that comes from? Because you had such a good upbringing and family and community. I think I was the oldest, and so I had that kind of thing. You know how it is, because you're the oldest.

43:50Sal Di Stefano:I am, but we're different here. This is why I'm asking, because I find this interesting, because you would think, based off of my childhood, being the oldest, I would share that in common with you but I would think that I think you and I are very different than that

44:06Adam Schafer:well I've heard you say when you're with your younger siblings it's hard for you to be like peers that's true

44:12Sal Di Stefano:yeah so that's part is that not part of it? no I mean it hasn't impacted this part because the relationship part and I'm trying to unpack as we talk

44:21Adam Schafer:do you talk to your younger siblings and call them about your issues and problems?

44:24Sal Di Stefano:definitely not that's what I'm saying but with other people I do I have a lot of friend groups and I would say a lot of them aren't duty free. I think a lot of them, like I do,

44:36Sal Di Stefano:even relationships that you guys are aware of that I've made even through this podcast, I tend to deepen those and do things and share. I'm open, but like, so I'm not like that, but I should be based off of the things that you're saying right now, right?

44:50Adam Schafer:I don't know, that's interesting. You know, it's funny. I just saw a clip on social media the other day of this girl, she was like in her 20s and then she's like her older brother comes over and he's in his 20s and they have this great relationship. And she's like, why do you think we have such a great friendship? And then the brother's like, because we went through a lot of trauma together with our parents. And so I'm wondering if you guys went through the crap together, if you guys like stuck together as a result. I mean, that's my sister and I. Yeah.

45:16Sal Di Stefano:So my sister and I are like that. That's for sure the truth. But I'm not just, I'm thinking about other people. Yeah, I don't know. Outside of family. Yeah, I don't know. You know, like, because, I mean, what you're sharing about yourself, I think, has been something that you've obviously been open about and you've been working on, right, being more of that, even with us, right? We have this brotherhood and this bond. But for a long time, I feel like you feel like that you're being a burden. Totally, right? Totally. But it's something that you've been, but I'm not that way. And I should be when you think about like the things you're pointing out, the trauma I went through as a kid, being the oldest, I should kind of have similar, I would think, traits with you, but it's different.

45:57Sal Di Stefano:And I don't know why it is. I know that in my late teens to early 20s, I do remember connecting the dots pretty early, the power and value of strong relationships. And I leaned into that. So I know that at some point I made that connection of like, man, when you build – and I teach this to my younger siblings, my kids that I mentor and cousins that are younger than me and stuff. like that. In fact, I just had this conversation when my cousin was, my younger cousin who's in his early 20s about just how valuable it is to be good to others, to find ways to add value to their life and foster those relationships.

46:43Sal Di Stefano:Because right now you may not see the value of it at 22 years old, but I said, if you practice that for 20 years, you'll look back and you'll have this Rolodex of 30 40 people that you can call a friend that you can pick a phone up at any time and be like hey i need help or i don't have a job and like i said and that really adds up in life and so don't underestimate the value of that of spending those that time so i don't know where that i don't know yeah yeah i if i could speculate it's probably more uh the upfront like radical honesty piece so when you present that with people it's probably like it opens an opportunity for more of a deeper relationship with people because otherwise they're going to be turned off they don't want to get that deep right away or they don't want to like um accept you know the feedback and so they're going to move on and then whoever kind of stays around i would imagine you probably have deeper conversations

47:42Adam Schafer:with them that's an interesting how do you how do you guys feel about being taken care of like if you were really sick or like you were incapacitated for like years how would you feel about people just doing everything for you yeah i could see that being a challenge yeah it's tough i mean i'm

47:57Sal Di Stefano:kind of in between both i'm probably more on sal in the terms of like the independence of it and like i've tried to be better about it's how the reason i brought that up is because that's what i've been working on a lot since i've been hanging out with you guys was just like tell it like it is, you know, like first off, instead of like, you try to, uh, you know, be nice and, and allow, um, you know, people to talk and have their opinions and all this and not really contribute to it. It's like, well, I'm going to say what I'm about to, and then we just kind of meet there. And it's, it has helped with like the types of relationships I have now, but, um, you know, for me, I still, I struggle with, I want like all it mainly because of where I'm, what I, the chip that I had you know that kind of led me into like my own independent work and in my drive of like trying to get successful because it wasn't there like the expectation wasn't there uh and so I wanted to prove to everybody it was like a proving thing which I've outgrown and I don't you know need that like but at the same time like I have this fierce independence you And so it's a struggle.

49:08Sal Di Stefano:I don't want somebody to wipe my ass when I'm 80.

49:11Adam Schafer:I don't think anybody does.

49:12Sal Di Stefano:No, I don't think so either. But I think you're onto something, Justin. I hadn't thought about from that perspective, from the radical honesty perspective, because you're probably right. I mean, I guess you guys are better to even your experience when we all first met or the first time we met. It's probably disarming when you know this person is going to tell you the truth. you might not like it or not, but you're just like, well, at least I know it's honest and it's the truth. And starting a relationship off right out the gates with like radical honesty like that tends to probably disarm or open the other person up.

49:44Sal Di Stefano:Some people aren't ready for it. Right, right. Like exactly. Most people probably are guarded. And then if, if I start a relationship where I can be like that earlier than the average person, maybe that opens up that possibility of relationship and connecting faster or more often. I can, that's a, I think that's an interesting thought.

50:01Adam Schafer:I think too, it's like, Like with like real deep, close, consistent friendships, there's a lot of sacrifice in the sense that you sacrifice privacy. You sacrifice time. You know, like imagine people just coming over. Like they're not calling you, telling you to come. Hey, I'm here. What's going on? I'm in the middle of something. You know, my kids and I are struggling. You don't want them in the house, you know. Yeah, your house is dirty or whatever.

50:27Sal Di Stefano:There's a lot of sacrifice.

50:29Adam Schafer:There's like anxiety. So especially if you're a kid, like go make those kind of friends. Like you can get rejected. And you probably will. You probably will get rejected a bunch of times. And so it's easier to just not. It's easier just to have that surface. The extreme example of that is like social media friends. People are so afraid to have like real friendships, but they'll talk through social media or post on social media, which is really just a.

50:54Sal Di Stefano:When you guys went to, when you both were in like elementary, middle and high school, was it like the same group of people you grew with or did you guys move around a lot see i had i had

51:03Adam Schafer:close cousins so i never felt the need to have those kinds of friends so i grew up with cousins yeah one cousin in particular my cousin sep uh were so close that i never felt uh like um attached to or like i needed to have i mean i had friends in high school but it was not like my family so i think if i didn't have that i probably would have invested more uh in my school friends but But for me, it was like if I didn't have friends, I couldn't care because I had my cousin.

51:32Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, see, so we're really different there because I didn't have the closeness. I didn't have that. They were your family. And we moved a lot. Yeah. So I was like, just as I started to meet new friends in a friend group, I had to start over again and do it again. And so I'm sure it exercised that muscle at an early age subconsciously. You know what I'm saying? Because at a survival, new area, I have no family. I have no friends yet, so I have to make friends.

51:55Adam Schafer:It takes work. Oh, and it is. It is. You got to actually go out and try to make friends. My friend Chuck was telling me this. And guys are terrible, especially when you get older. He's like, hey, he goes, if you want to make friends, you got to go make friends. He's like, you actually have to make it a goal. Put an effort there. I'm going to go. He actually tells a story when he went to college. He's like, there was this one guy. And he explains him as this guy. He's like, I really want to get to know this guy. I think I could learn a lot from him. So he's like, I pursued him. I literally pursued him as a friend.

52:23Adam Schafer:It sounds funny. It sounds like somebody you pursue is like you're going to date. but he's like no you got to actually like pursue uh friendships it takes a lot of work yeah um and then you know you get older you have kids a wife a job if you just wait nothing no it's gonna happen you gotta actually go out and kind of make it you know kind of make it happen yeah you know so it's true yeah so and that that's very strong contributed to uh happiness loneliness is exploding if you look at the data on loneliness it's crazy uh how lonely people are getting even

52:52Sal Di Stefano:though we're more connected yeah you know i saw something interesting i thought i wanted to bring out to you guys hear what your what your thoughts were on it um so uh walmart just came out and uh said they're gonna discontinue self-checkout lines yeah because revamping 650 you think it's theft

53:10Adam Schafer:dude they had so much theft bro is it really high yes they had a lot of theft oh i didn't know that yeah yeah people were just going crazy with it and you gotta think if that's happening at that

53:20Sal Di Stefano:rate and that high at walmart it's probably happening happening in a lot of the self-checkout

53:24Adam Schafer:It depends on the store. Yeah. Interesting. Walmart attracts certain types of customer, and so their theft was high. That's a really interesting thing. Target doesn't probably have that kind of problem.

53:39Sal Di Stefano:That'd be such an interesting thing to look at.

53:41Adam Schafer:Whole Foods, maybe.

53:42Sal Di Stefano:Target, I'm not sure.

53:43Adam Schafer:But Walmart's Walmart, dude. Like Walmart - Yeah, it's high volume everything.

53:47Sal Di Stefano:Walmart is different than Target. I mean, there's a reason why Target's nickname is Target. Yeah. it's a fancy it's a fancy walmart doug yeah that's true that's true know that well yeah walmart is like the place like some i've been some places here in the u.s where it's like the only store you know that provides anything now i went in there the other day and i did notice and it was it was interesting because it was right around the time i read this this article and i uh i did notice that the way their self-checkout line first of all they have a bunch of them and it's in this like kind of pit area and there was like i want to say like 10 12 of those and target the way they have their structured is there's only i want to say six and then there's a person stationed facing the four things and that's not how walmart is structured it's not set up that way and so

54:38Adam Schafer:walmart's incentive is uh all this is always an incentive but walmart has a huge incentive to be the lowest price. This is what makes Walmart Walmart. They are brilliant at cutting costs, like with efficiency, with product accuracy, knowing how much they need to order. Like Walmart literally is, whether you like them or not, they're genius at figuring out how to make products as inexpensive as possible. So when it comes to like self-checkout, that was another way to make things way less expensive. So they're probably like as little people as possible. But the theft, you can look it up, Doug. Look at Walmart.

55:12Adam Schafer:yeah walmart's yeah well it makes sense but what i find fascinating about that why i wanted to bring

55:17Sal Di Stefano:that up is because as like will other stores follow suit and so based off of what your theory is right now this might just be a walmart problem and not like a like a self-checkout problem yeah which is interesting like that's really interesting that it's only there are you looking it up doug yeah so it's shrink high shrink yeah it's up to 16 times higher than cashier staff lanes Yep.

55:38Adam Schafer:Increased theft, including skip scanning and fraudulent activity has prompted the retailer to bring back cashier monitor lanes, implement AI powered cameras and increase receptor receipt audits.

55:49Sal Di Stefano:Now, I'd love to see how that compares to say at Target. Like, how does that compare to other? So put Walmart versus Target.

55:57Adam Schafer:Shrink. The theft. Yeah.

55:59Sal Di Stefano:Shrink. Cash back glitches. Yeah.

56:02Adam Schafer:Yeah. Like what? They just, how does that work? Bro, there's social media clips where people explain how you can get your stuff for free at Walmart. Oh, really? Yeah, dude. You know what skip checking is? Yeah. You know what scan one thing, pretend to scan another thing, put it in a bag? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Wow. So Target as well. Estimating$1.2 billion profit hit between 2022 and 2023.

56:25Sal Di Stefano:Okay, see, that's got to be super high too, Sal.

56:27Adam Schafer:It is, but I don't think that they're— Okay, compare. Go down. Compare their shrinkage. It's hard to compare because Walmart's bigger. So I don't know if the number is -

56:37Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, well, yeah, you can't compare a dollar amount. But I mean, as a percentage, that's got to be high. 1.2 billion?

56:43Adam Schafer:That's nothing to sneeze at. Yeah. Target heavily emphasizes the impact of organized retail crime as a major contributor to safety issues. While both blame theft, analysts suggest Target's inventory management issues may have exacerbated the issue. Yeah, so it's different. but I would guess that you're going to get, depending on the location of the store, you'll get more theft.

57:08Sal Di Stefano:I mean, that's not like a crazy theory at all. Yeah. I mean, obviously, both Walmart or Target in better areas are probably going to do.

57:19Adam Schafer:I remember my brother telling me in San Francisco, I remember when they passed those laws. It was like, you had to steal. I remember what it was, like$700 worth. Dude, people were coming in with garbage bags and just. He saw it. It was right in front of his face because they had a law in San Francisco. was like if it was under a thousand dollars was it under a thousand dollars they wouldn't yeah

57:34Sal Di Stefano:they wouldn't prosecute you 500 yeah it was something no it was a thousand it was a thousand

57:38Adam Schafer:it was some number right like if it was under this number then you're then you're okay they

57:44Sal Di Stefano:were literally clearing the shelf off worth nine hundred dollars worth of product and then turning

57:48Adam Schafer:around the corner and then selling it on the street he saw it with his own eyes he goes dude a guy a few guys walked in with garbage bags filled them up walked out went around the corner laid it out on the street and started selling it. Dude, there's literally no policy here that's worked. Yeah. If you think about it. That's wild, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's super crazy. There is no legal dollar amount that allows, okay. Well, this may be new, right? I think they changed. Oh, so, yeah. So before it was like 950 or less. There it is, 950. 950 or less is misdemeanor, which meant that people, and what literally happened is they would put you, they'd bring you to the, the cops would take you in you go right back on.

58:27Adam Schafer:Right. And on top of that,

58:28Sal Di Stefano:what they were, what the people that worked for the stores would be told is like, it's a misdemeanor. It's not worth stopping. They charge everything$950 until they bring it up to the cashier. That was a brilliant strategy.

58:39Adam Schafer:Some stores did. Yeah. Every ticket said like a thousand bucks.

58:42Sal Di Stefano:And then they'd mark it. They give you a mark off and then it's not where you get arrested.

58:47Adam Schafer:I know. Isn't that funny? Oh, wow. It's so funny. Hell yeah. I got to say this. So, so I don't know if you guys know this. So Vita Bella. Our partners at mphormones.com is giving people, this is so smart, 10-minute consultations free.

59:01Sal Di Stefano:Oh, that's great because of all the questions around peptides.

59:03Adam Schafer:If you have questions on peptides, hormones, all the peptides, what does it do, which one will help me, whatever, you can get on the phone with an expert and it's free and they'll help you. And they'll answer any of your questions. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to sign up with them. You don't have to do anything. They can handle that volume?

59:19Sal Di Stefano:I know.

59:19Adam Schafer:Wow. People got a lot of questions about peptides. That's what they're recommending. And Doug, is there a specific link for that? Or do they just go to mphormones.com for that? Yeah, let me pull that up. I believe it's mphormones.com.

59:30Sal Di Stefano:And then I thought I saw, too, that the people that do this also have a chance to win a free membership. Yeah, it was like three people, I think.

59:38Adam Schafer:Yeah, three people will get a free membership, and 10 will get labs paid for it.

59:42Sal Di Stefano:So I'm assuming this is just for this month. I believe so. Yeah, that makes sense. This can be something they can do ongoing. That's a lot of work. Yeah, yeah.

59:49Adam Schafer:They're going to get a lot of calls. it's good though because people have a lot of peptides are exploding they're mainstream and they're going all over the place and everybody's interested and it's like get your information from experts don't get it from social media because I've seen some stuff on social media

1:00:05Sal Di Stefano:and also consider even though I know so long as they're coming from the right place they're really safe but getting your blood work and your labs done and seeing what will really benefit you I think is so important I know they don't require that. And so I know that that's a reason why so a lot of people are bypassing that. But it's like if you're going to go take the step to do that and inject something, you probably should do that.

1:00:27Adam Schafer:We did our blood work with our partners and they sent the person here to do it. Yeah. So that was easier for us, just telling our audience. It's so, dude, how many times did they miss your vein? Oh, bro.

1:00:39Sal Di Stefano:The crazy part is that. You knew, too. It's like obvious veins, too.

1:00:42Adam Schafer:I don't get it. Yeah, dude, you're veiny.

1:00:45Sal Di Stefano:I do not like doing that, man. that's why it's funny because you hate it anyway i know and it's like you have to look away i do yeah especially if they're like that like if they're missing and fumbling around with it and i can feel the vein just like rolling yes that's what they say so so somebody who obviously missed a bunch of times explained to me why supposedly because it's it's hit miss like some nurses they see my veins and they get all excited like oh this is easy yeah you got dodgy veins bro and then And others will say things like, oh, yeah, there's perks to someone who's very vascular.

1:01:20Sal Di Stefano:And then there's also drawbacks. And the drawback is those big veins can roll on you really easy, I guess. So, but. Doing all the jujitsu. I mean, I've had such a, we've done this so many times for so long now that I've had so many different experiences. I've had some people that I've gone in and done blood work. And it's like, I look away and I. You start feeling them? Well, no. Or I'll come back and it's already done. and I'm like, whoa, that was crazy impressive. And then I have the other ones where I'm just like, I'm sweating because I can feel them. Feel them searching. I can feel them missing.

1:01:52Sal Di Stefano:We haven't even started the first little. Oh, I hate that.

1:01:55Adam Schafer:That's why after you, it was like my turn. I'll come back to you. And it was like. Really? You was brilliant at like getting blood. Pediatric. Yes. Courtney was like. Because they had to do little children. They had to do an infant. She just had to do it on their head.

1:02:11Sal Di Stefano:Oh. Oh, my goodness. So she actually got recruited a lot in the hospital to go all different floors when they couldn't get somebody, and she would get it first. I feel like there's all these professions. There's an art form. There's a skill. And you should get paid. I know. I'm advocating for nurses that are good at this. You should get tips. Yes. Exactly. Bonus. I would totally tip that. I don't even feel that. I hate doing that. We tip baristas, and we don't tip. I would tip my nurse.

1:02:43Adam Schafer:There should be a rating. How many stars? One? You're going to have to bruise? Why wouldn't they do that?

1:02:47Sal Di Stefano:Than a foamy heart. I can't be alone in this either. What percentage of people don't like getting their blood taken? I would say like 100%. No, really? Some people pass out. Okay. Do you get dizzy? Well, sometimes. There's got to be some psychos that look forward to it. Yeah, there's got to be some weird people. But I mean, if it's more than 50 % of the people don't like getting their blood taken, I imagine they appreciate when they get somebody who is really good. We should be allowed to tip them.

1:03:14Adam Schafer:You should take ex-heroin addicts that are sober and make them nurses. They'd be brilliant at this.

1:03:19Sal Di Stefano:78 % of people experience some sort of anxiety. That's great. Eight out of 10 people. And we're not tipping these people? Yeah. I know. Yeah. You can start. What would happen if a nurse just all of a sudden started to keep going? Just get an app or something. They should. If I walked into a place and there was one of those little Venmo QR codes that said, if I do a good job, tip me. 100 % if you did, I would do that on the way up. 100 % I would. 100%. So if you're a nurse and you do that, you should start doing it. I wonder if they get in trouble for that. What? If they got in trouble for that.

1:03:54Sal Di Stefano:Would you get in trouble for that, you think? I don't know. For sucking? No, no, no. For getting tips.

1:03:58Adam Schafer:For starting a tip jar like that. Of course, dude. Imagine you walk into the doctor's office, there's a tip jar.

1:04:04Sal Di Stefano:There should be. if 80 % of the people have anxiety doing the thing I know that that means you have to appreciate when you get somebody who is really good at it and there is and let me tell you there is a huge difference between really good and terrible I mean the feeling that you get if you're somebody in that 80 % that get anxiety and you get a person who is top tier versus somebody who's a five star rating system for the nurse that got it like every single time I'm using that. Yes. And I pay extra for that person.

1:04:38Adam Schafer:I have a family member, big dude. He will not do it. It's only if it's a death, like an emergency. And even then he'll pass out. It's always the biggest guys. They are so scary. I'm a baby about it.

1:04:51Sal Di Stefano:For sure, I'm a total baby. I do not like doing it. And I have to psych myself up. I get distracted, look over here. I do all these things. But I've had bad experiences. The one right before her, I missed three times and left a bruise the size of a softball on my arm. And it hurt for like a week, dude. I told you about my big friend. You know, he's 6 '8". He's a huge guy. And he had to get an MRI. He had to go to the zoo. No, he didn't. You never said that. I didn't. No. Of course, me, you know, I was concerned because, like, he had, you know, passed. He had, like, a stroke. And it was, like, a serious, like, issue.

1:05:30Sal Di Stefano:And he was very scared about it. I'm trying to be consoling, empathetic, and all this. And then he kind of told me that. I'm like, so did you have to wait after the baboons? After the wall was? Dude, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they couldn't fit them in the regular one. I mean, that makes sense. Those things were pretty narrow. Well, you remember we did ours. Yeah, we just did ours. They're pretty narrow.

1:05:54Adam Schafer:I hit both ends with my shoulders, and I was pinned. And I'm not huge. You're almost zoo level, dude. Yeah. You're almost zoo level. They're whiter than I have, bro. A couple more peptides. I'm going to use that with it for sure.

1:06:05Sal Di Stefano:Hey, bro, you're one peptide away from zoo MRI, bro. It's going to be a new thing we're going to do.

1:06:10Adam Schafer:See, I would not be offended if they're like, listen. I know. I'm like, exactly. That's what I told them. We should be. We should be at zoo to get this MRI. You don't fit in the machine. I'd be like, cool. You would be the guy to text everybody. Can't wait to tell everybody what happened. Can you say it on camera? It's like a show. How enormous I am. That's hilarious. is probiotics have been shown in studies to improve gut health reduce inflammation help you with your bowel movements but they have also been shown in studies that clear up your skin reduce anxiety make you feel better speed up recovery and even add to strength gains in the gym now the question is which probiotic do i take well i got the answer seed seed is literally the best probiotic in the world they're the cutting edge they have a delivery process that is unmatched.

1:06:55Adam Schafer:They're the best. If you want to take probiotics, you want to get the benefits, go to seed.com forward slash mind pump, use the code 25 mind pump and you'll get 25 % off your first months of seeds daily symbiotic back to the show. Our next caller is Christian from California. Hey, what's up, man? How you doing Christian? Good to see you again, dude. Yes. It's good to see you guys again. Yeah. How you doing? What's going on? I'm doing all right. I think the last time we chatted, I had our second baby girl on the way you did and now i have a baby boy on the way what how many kids you got now dude this will be number three for me god bless you bro good for you man look at you all peaceful and stuff you're not tired for now i'm being relaxed now because i know it's gonna be crazy later yeah dude so what's going on how can we help you yeah a couple questions for you um i've been running the last couple of times I ran anabolic anesthetic actually performance.

1:07:53Also, I cut the foundational workouts in half and split them over two days. Um, because it just kind of worked better for my lifestyle. I was in the gym most days of the week and it kept me more active. I found that the days that I don't go to the gym, I'm just, I get so many less steps and just generally less active. um and so my question for that i actually now i think about it two questions one i hope the answer is no am i ruining the programming by splitting it into two days

1:08:27Sal Di Stefano:no no yeah not at all you're okay great it's a valid message um and then two should i still do like the trigger sessions mobility sessions focus sessions if i'm already in the gym like six days

1:08:38Adam Schafer:a week nah i mean mobility is more important than the trigger with that uh it's important to work on uh, mobility. The thing is, uh, if you're following performance, the program itself is pretty good for mobility, but if you're not following, if it's anabolic, if it's aesthetic, uh, you're definitely going to want to inject some mobility. Cause those are so like bodybuilding or, you know, sagittal plane focused. Uh, so I would say yes, uh, with mobility, but trigger not so much. I mean, you're in the gym so much or so frequently that it would be like another session plus you're having a kid like that's a lot dude that you're you're having another kid and you've got young ones already so you also might want to consider uh you know adjusting it for something like that yeah for sure so if i so if i add mobility sessions i usually lift in the morning should i do the mobility sessions in the afternoon at night or

1:09:35Sal Di Stefano:during training work tack them on to the workout yeah before after the workout ever yeah yeah or at night i mean anytime you have time yeah cool so it doesn't matter too much yeah nope yep i mean you're splitting the workouts i'd probably tack them on to my workout and just be at the gym for an hour right that's what i would probably do unless it's more convenient to split it up here's

1:09:55Adam Schafer:the thing too with mobility is um you know i don't know what your routine looks like but i would just focus on the areas you need to focus on you could also just do that sure sure cool that's helpful my second question I want to give a little context to it because I think it'll help I get good sleep ever since I started listening to you guys I've really prioritized it and last year I listen to you guys all the time so my wife hears your guys' voices all the time and whenever you started talking about the eight sleep I would pause it and I would wait until my wife was in the room or in the car with me so i'm now a proud owner of an eight sleeper yeah yeah yeah um so generally i get good sleep but on the on the off nights that i don't when my kids wakes up or whatever i'm sick um i know i need to adjust the volume of my training the next day if i'm lacking sleep

1:10:59Sal Di Stefano:do you guys have any like general yeah cut the weights in half rules just cut the weights in

1:11:05Adam Schafer:Yeah, so two things. If you're sick, you're better off not working out. So working out in the acute stage reduces the effectiveness, I guess for lack of a better term, of your immune system. So exercise generally strengthens your immune system. But in the acute stage, like while you're working out, right after you're working out, maybe a day after, your immune system is depressed. so if you're sick working out is agitator it's a great way to potentially cause a secondary infection or make you feel worse now if you're tired there's a few variables that you can adjust the most important one to adjust is the one that adam is kind of implying which is intensity yeah so more important than cutting the the volume is making the workout easy yeah i mean i did this yesterday.

1:11:54Adam Schafer:I had really bad sleep the night before. Um, I woke up, I couldn't sleep in for whatever reason. It's one of those nights where you just wake up early and then for whatever reason, can't go back to sleep. So I went to the gym and I just worked out really easy. Uh, and that's, that's the most important thing. The second thing would be volume. The third thing would be skipping the gym. So depending on how bad the sleep was, you might want to skip the gym altogether. But if it's just like, you know, instead of getting eight hours, I got six hours and I'm kind of groggy, then you just go to the gym and you just go easy.

1:12:27Adam Schafer:Gotcha.

1:12:28Sal Di Stefano:So it would be, so we would keep the same exercises, just really reduced the weight. You know what you do when you squat, when you bench, when you overhead press, when you do those movements, reduce it by at least 25 to 50%. Yeah. And just go, I mean, what I do in those days is those are like my machine pump days. Exactly. Those are the days I like to go over to the machines and I'm just like, I know what muscle groups I'm supposed to hit today. I'm going to go over and I'm going to leg press today. I'm going to shoulder machine press today. I'm going to use the machines.

1:12:59Adam Schafer:That's exactly what I did.

1:13:00Sal Di Stefano:And I'm going to get a little bit of a pump in all those muscle groups. And you are not going to go backwards that way. No, no, no.

1:13:07Adam Schafer:I'm just going easy, dude. I'm just feeling it, going easy and just moving through. Gotcha. So keep the sets and reps the same. Just cut the weight. Yeah, just cut the weight. Cut the intensity. Yeah, the intensity. yeah because you could also cut the weight and still go hard yeah so yeah so it's about the intensity go easy gotcha cool um sorry back to my first question so i was looking at maps strong and then there's maps 15 strong is there any would i lose or gain anything if i if i got map strong the full one and then cut those in half or should i just get maps 15 strong that's a more difficult program to do what you're doing with uh anabolic and aesthetic because the work sessions are programmed differently yeah okay

1:13:56Sal Di Stefano:it's more straightforward with anabolic and aesthetic it gets a little more complicated it's not like it's impossible you just may be better off getting 15 is yeah less the work uh sessions and more of just yeah the foundation in other words cutting workouts in half doesn't

1:14:09Adam Schafer:mess up the programming of maps anabolic or maps aesthetic cutting the workouts in half has a stronger effect on messing up the programming with strong interest so this is it this is a programming thing yeah but maps 15 strong is perfect yeah for what you're looking for

1:14:26Sal Di Stefano:sounds great that's what i'll look into then all right christian you got hey hey congratulations yeah yeah dude good for you man we're excited playoffs tonight bro i know are they gonna do I don't know, dude. I don't know. I don't know either.

1:14:45Sal Di Stefano:Cincinnati Bumblebee's. All right, Christian. Always good catching up with your brother. Take it easy, man. Take it easy, man. See you later, dude.

1:14:54Adam Schafer:See you later, dude. Sports. Sports ball. You know, hey, you know what? I love that he asked about strong because someone listening may have gotten the impression that they could cut workouts in half for all the programs.

1:15:08Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, no.

1:15:09Adam Schafer:But it will mess up programming depending on what program you're following. Some of them live well to do that. Yeah, and strong is not one of them.

1:15:16Sal Di Stefano:Anabolic is perfect for that.

1:15:18Adam Schafer:Yeah, anabolic's fine. Cut them in half, go for it. But strong, not so good, but then you have MAPS 15 strong.

1:15:22Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, even aesthetic is a little more complicated because we have focus sessions. Yeah, you have to cut them out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that changes a little bit there where anabolic is very straightforward. Cut the workouts in half, now you go six days a week.

1:15:33Adam Schafer:Fine.

1:15:33Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, totally fine.

1:15:34Adam Schafer:Our next caller is Jessica from Alberta. Jessica, what's happening? Hello. Hello, nice to meet you guys. Same, how can we help you? Let me read my question. Okay, about two years ago, I was at my heaviest, about over 250 pounds. At that point, I focused more on being consistent with workouts and eating less overall. And in the first year, I lost about 40 pounds. Since then, though, progress has really stalled. Like last year, I only lost another five to 10 pounds. And then this year, my weight stayed about the same, despite feeling like I'm doing all of the same things, if not more. The confusing parts, I'm really consistent and pretty strong.

1:16:13I strength train four times a week. I also mix in running and occasional spin and Pilates classes. And I'm averaging about 10 ,000 to 12 ,000 steps per day. My nutrition is pretty structured. On average, I sit around 21 to 2 ,400 calories per day. It probably goes up to 2 ,800 or so on social days, maybe one for twice a week. And my protein is probably around 130 to 150 grams. I do struggle more so in the past, but with periods of overeating and binging. And I do feel like my hunger and food noise have increased over time since I started this two and a bit years ago. My goal is fat loss while maintaining muscle.

1:16:57I still have like a pretty lofty goal of weight loss that I'm looking to achieve. but I feel stuck in this phase where I'm strong, I'm active, I'm consistent, but I'm not really seeing any meaningful change, um, on the scale. So my question is, am I likely under eating and adapted or is this more of like a consistency adherence issue with nutrition? Um, and I was just hoping for some recommendations to break through the plateau without sacrificing muscle or performance.

1:17:22Sal Di Stefano:It's, it's, it's both, but I have, I have a question. You, you, when you emailed in, it says 1800 to 2100 calories is or 2000 calories has this changed because you said yeah i think that was my first estimate and then when i when i was accepted to do this call i started just tracking a little bit more closely moving up to this and i feel like that's what i just said is

1:17:42Adam Schafer:more uh accurate yeah okay this is easy this is actually pretty so you're in a great place because the fix is easy so here's so here's what's going on so you feel like you're consistent with what you're doing, but your metabolic rate is never consistent. Its goal is to adapt. And it's going to adapt to a deficit by reducing metabolic output. There's a lot of different ways it does this, but to put it simply, your metabolism slowed down to match your intake. And so then what this feels like on your end is I'm doing all this work and nothing's happening. And it used to work, but now it's not. What is going on?

1:18:23Adam Schafer:And it feels like you're like in a car and you're hitting the gas, but your wheels are spinning. Okay. So the fix is to get your metabolism to adapt in a way we want it to adapt. And that's going to come, generally speaking, it's going to look like a reverse diet and probably a reduction in some of the cardio activity that you're doing. So maybe a cut down in some of the spin classes and running, the strength training is perfectly fine. Walking's perfectly fine. And let's reverse diet you, build a little bit of muscle, but speed up the metabolism and set us up for a more effective and more sustainable cut down the line.

1:19:05Okay.

1:19:05Adam Schafer:Otherwise, the other approach is to keep doing what you're doing and feel real frustrated. And then what's going to happen is your appetite's going to keep climbing, which you're probably already feeling right now. You're probably already feeling like your appetite's kind of starting to increase. And that's your body fighting kind of what you're doing right now. Now, what it'll feel like if you do this right is the reverse diet. You're going to eat more, get stronger, see some performance gains. Everything's working great. Not seeing any weight loss, but that's okay. Maybe a couple pounds weight gain.

1:19:38Adam Schafer:No big deal. Probably water. And then when you're ready, you go back on a cut and then boom, you start seeing fat loss again and your metabolism is faster and you're in a place that you're it's easier to maintain okay that makes sense so how what would your recommendation be for like how much i reverse diet and for how long so i can give you a general idea yeah um but ideally you'd want a coach to work work with you through this process because a lot of it's going to be how you're responding and how you feel. Reverse dieting is way harder than it sounds, especially if you've lost weight already.

1:20:17Adam Schafer:It's a bit scary. And if you start to feel like I'm getting bigger or I'm holding a little water, it's like, oh, what's going on here? And so a coach will adjust on the fly. But generally speaking, what it typically looks like is 100 to 200 calorie bump. And then we maintain there for a little while and then we do it again. And then we maintain there for a little while and then we do it again until we get get to a point that we want to cut from. And for someone like you, it's probably going to be around 2 ,600 calories eventually that then we can bring back down to 2 ,100 calories and start seeing fat loss again.

1:20:52Sal Di Stefano:Well, that's where she's at right now. It's 24 to 26.

1:20:54Adam Schafer:She just, she just got there.

1:20:56Sal Di Stefano:No, no, she's been there. She just started tracking to double check this. So she thought she was eating 1 ,800 to 2 ,000 calories a day.

1:21:04Adam Schafer:How long have you been around 2 ,500? I would say I'm 21 to 2400, and I think I've been there consistently for a couple months. Okay. Yeah. No, we would get you a little higher then. Yeah. I'd say we'd get you much higher. Yeah, much higher then. Yeah. And we'd consistently get you at like 25, 26, 27.

1:21:23Sal Di Stefano:How often are we doing the spin and the runs per week? So in the winter, I mean, I've just kind of switched things up now that it's nice out. I was trying to do about three runs a week. How long are they running? They're not too, too long. And so I've cut back. And then in the winter, I was doing less. I wasn't really running. And I was doing, yeah, maybe two or three spins a week. So how long is the run for?

1:21:50Typically from like 30 to 45 minutes.

1:21:53Sal Di Stefano:Okay. So I'd immediately switch that to walks or hikes. So it's not running. You can keep doing that if you like it. I'd immediately switch to that. I'd bump calories by 200 calories right away. And then the strength training, are you following one of our programs or you just, what do you got? How'd you put it together? Yeah, I had just finished anabolic and then I had moved up to, I was trying to do four times a day just cause I liked it being like a little bit shorter. Yeah. And now that I had just kind of finished that, I'm looking to go back to, because I was doing three times a week running, go down to three times a day.

1:22:30Adam Schafer:You mean a week? Yeah. yeah oh sorry yes a week yeah yeah i would i would because we're not because there's nothing wrong with running but we're trying to move your metabolism in a in a direction we want it to go and um i would cut the running like adam said because the goal right now is metabolic adaptation in the direction we want which is building building muscle speeding metabolism

1:22:53Sal Di Stefano:that's right and that's not going to help the cause i totally don't mind you still walking which is great. So if you like the routine of getting out there, treadmill or whatever, yeah, yeah. Go ahead and walk, do your thing. Uh, especially if you like being outside and you appreciate that and it's nice weather, like I'm totally encourage that. Um, I like anabolic. Um, I like muscle mommy. Yeah. Or muscle mommy. Either one of those routines would be a great routine while we reverse diet. But the real focus is just really paying attention to increased strength. Sounds like you've done a good job already.

1:23:22Sal Di Stefano:I think if, if that's true, then when we add to 200 plus calories and we reduce the running, you should see strength continue to go back up again too. And that would be a good indicator that we're moving the right direction.

1:23:32Adam Schafer:Yeah. When you said you were averaging 21 to 24, if you were to add it all up, what would the average be around? Do you mean daily? Yeah. Yeah. So if you took all your tracking, added it up, divided by the days, do you know where you would fall? Yeah. I think it's, more around like probably, yeah, probably around like 23, 24. So yeah, we would go up from there then. Yeah. Yeah. And this is a, probably going to be a six month or process, maybe longer of reversing and then cutting. If you want, if you want to work with a coach, we can have someone call you and then they'll, they'll coach you through the process.

1:24:11Sure. Yeah. I'd be interested

1:24:12Adam Schafer:in that. I guess I have one other question kind of related to the strength training. So I feel like I'm, I'm pretty injury prone. I've had multiple surgeries on one of my knees. And so when it comes to the lower body stuff, like squats and, um, um, you know, other, other lower body stuff, I get kind of nervous maxing out my weight. Like I feel like it's, I don't think I'm necessarily lifting my heaviest when I'm doing a squat or a deadlift or something like that, but it's kind of, I feel like I'm maxing out my range of motion and how comfortable I am with pushing. So that's like one, I feel like that's a limitation when I'm strength training.

1:24:56Sal Di Stefano:One of the things that you can do, I mean, obviously having someone there to help you, that'd be great, but like, it's okay if you, so let's say you're in a part of Anabolic or Muscle Mommy that calls for five reps, put a weight on the bar that you haven't done before that would is going to challenge that that might be a little scary that is like i don't know if i can do this and it's okay if you stop at three yeah okay it's okay like so if you if you feel it as you're going through it like oh i don't know if i'm gonna get five or this is so i'm always going to encourage especially my female clients to to kind of push that if i'm afraid of the weight i'm not sure i feel uncomfortable it's okay we'll cut it off at two or three like get under there do what like and there's lots of benefits to putting that kind of weight on there and doing two or three reps that you've never done before.

1:25:40Sal Di Stefano:Like there's a lot of value to that. And so give yourself that okay and permission that you don't have to get to five just because the program says get to five. That's the, that's the, that's guidelines for you. But really, I want you to try and challenge the weight. It's a weight you've never done before. Put it on there. And then if you get a little nervous when you get to rep three, just cut it off. That's okay.

1:25:59Adam Schafer:You can also, Jessica, there's other ways to progressively overload besides adding weight on the bar. Yeah. So if you're doing a weight that, you know, you can do 10 reps with and you're like, man, I should add weight. You could just slow the reps. Pause the bottom. Pause halfway up or at the bottom. Just make it harder is another way to do that. And you think this is better than like, I don't know, subbing things out for like a leg press or a machine? Oh, definitely. I mean, yes, yes. But that's okay to do that too occasionally depending on how you feel and what the injury is like. You know, if you're like really like, oh, my knee's a little iffy today.

1:26:34Adam Schafer:and because here's the thing there's two things number one you might feel like it's iffy because it is yeah or here's the second part this is actually more common and this is not something to sneeze at your fear can actually increase risk of injury and i've seen this i've seen people have previous injuries they go to exercise their fear actually changes how they connect to the exercise and their technique and this actually increases risk of injury and so if you're in that state and you're like, look, I just feel safer switching to this one exercise that feels safer for whatever reason. You sound like my physiotherapist.

1:27:06Adam Schafer:Just because it's actually true. It's because it's real. So it's totally fine to do that as well.

1:27:11Sal Di Stefano:I'll add to this too. And by the way, if you end up doing the coaching, this is all stuff that your coach is going to want to see, like a video of you doing a squat, things like that. They're going to be able to break. If I saw you squatting, I might notice other things too that I could give you mobility work to do, like 90-90s and ankle. So you running is not helping this either. Like almost everybody that runs that have, you know, quote unquote, knee issues. I mean, it ends up tightening up the hips and IT and that pulls on the patella and that bothers them.

1:27:40Adam Schafer:Running is more technical than squatting is. And running is typically done to fatigue in a way that squatting isn't. And when you see people injure their knees who run and strength train, they'll hurt their knee when they're strength training. but it came from the running yeah yeah so i know you're right i feel like because i have had all these knee traumas the running was like a a goal to to try to do it pain free and you know like give myself that check mark yeah but i know that you're i mean i would love to see you uh continue on the day the days that you were running it's still let's go out and go get some good a walk

1:28:18Sal Di Stefano:or hike outside right before you do it i'd love for you to spend 10 minutes doing 90 90s and combat stretch. So really do some hip and ankle mobility and then go for your walk. I would love to see that.

1:28:29Adam Schafer:By the way, that's not a bad goal. Like I love that goal. I love that you want to run pain-free because that for you is a personal like victory. But if that's really important to you, what you don't do is go out and run. What you do is you hire a running coach and have them work on your technique. That is the most effective, best way for you to ever be able to run without pain. It is very technical. We, we think of running, like you just go out and run, but when you have a coach and they'll break your technique down and have you go slow and work like three, four months of working with a running coach, like does miracles on people.

1:29:01Sal Di Stefano:That combined with you doing your hip and ankle work, because a lot of times you feel stress in the knee because there's instability and weakness in the ankles and the hips. And if you have instability in your ankles and hips and you don't address it and you just go run, you absolutely, You can't even have good technique. You're going to feel – exactly. You're going to feel knee pain. And so that's why I say like a great place to start would be keep doing the hikes, but before you go out, get down, do your 90-90s, do your combat stretch, be consistent with that. I bet you will feel a difference right away from that.

1:29:29Sal Di Stefano:It will improve your squatting and how you feel there. That's right. And then use what Sal said. If you feel nervous about the weight, just keep the lighter weight on there, but then pause at the bottom and make those five reps really difficult by slowing the tempo down.

1:29:43Adam Schafer:And I'm going to have a coach call you, and we're going to talk to you about six to nine months of a reverse diet cut. That's what I estimate you're probably going to have to do. Okay. And then should I give, now that I'm done anabolic, do you think I should give the muscle mommy a try? Yes. So if you work with our coach. Is that also three or four days a week? It's yes. If you work with our coach, they'll set you up with any program that they do.

1:30:05Sal Di Stefano:They'll also modify it for you, too. And they'll individualize it, which is even better. Yes. Okay.

1:30:10Adam Schafer:Yeah. So we'll have someone call you. But I'll let them know six to nine months is probably what you're looking at for what we just talked about. Okay. That sounds good. You got it. All right, Jessica. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. Yeah. She's actually in a good place because the solution is simple. And she sounds open, which is good. Like she's not afraid necessarily. But she reversed diets right. This is going to feel easy.

1:30:33Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. She's just –

1:30:35Adam Schafer:Because she already lost 40 pounds.

1:30:37Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:30:37Adam Schafer:But she's at that place where you plateau. and then you're like, I'm doing all kinds of stuff. And what is going on? It's like, well, your body adapted. Yeah, you got to build. That's it. Our next caller is Regina from Maryland. Hi, Regina. How you doing? Hi, guys. How are you? Good. How can we help you? Okay. So I am 39. I've been on to Zepatide for about 13 months now. I've lost 65 pounds-ish, so losing about a pound a week, which I'm happy with. I have been doing Orange Theory Fitness for that year, so about three or four classes a week, one of which is always a strength class. I know Orange Theory comes with its issues, as I've learned from your show, but it is the first thing in a long time that's gotten me to the gym consistently.

1:31:20So I've tried to incorporate your advice, lifting heavy, lifting slow, not worrying too much about how fast I can get through the routine. I also walk on an incline instead of running, and I just frankly don't worry too much about that part because I am not trying to elevate my cortisol more than life already does. Um, it has been a winning combination for me, though, an expensive one I'm paying for my medication out of, out of pocket. So it's been a pricey year. Um, and I'm looking forward and I wanted to write in because I am trying to plan for my off ramp. So both of the GLP and potentially OTF.

1:31:57Um, I don't want to be on the shot forever. I'm thinking about transitioning to one of your programs, but stopping Orange Theory and stopping the GLP feels very risky and a little bit scary because they both worked so well for me. The combination of the two has been a game changer in that it's allowed me to prioritize protein, fiber, eating a calorie deficit while still building muscle. I'm really proud of myself because I've lost weight, but I've held on to my muscle for the most part. With my age and the GLP, I just want to continue getting stronger. It makes me feel confident, and I know it will continue powering my metabolism as I, you know, enter perimenopause and all of that fun adventure.

1:32:38I know that so much of this is psychological, so I wanted to share what about this I think is working for me. What I love about Orange Theory is that I can walk into the gym without pre-planning. I have a pretty intense job that requires a lot of decision making, so it's helpful to not have to plan my workouts. There's also that added motivation of the no-show fee that gets me definitely to my pre-booked classes. So any advice on the transition would be greatly appreciated. I shared my body composition results. I'm mostly just nervous. It's been such an interesting year, and I just want to keep going in the right direction.

1:33:13Sal Di Stefano:So I'm having Doug pull up the body composition because I'm super curious to see. You said you kept most of your muscle. Yeah, I mean, pretty much. I can pull up my numbers. Can you break it down to me? It's hard for me to tell. So it says March 27th this year, right? That was this year. Yeah, 28.8 % body fat, skeletal muscle, 78.3 pounds.

1:33:35Adam Schafer:So it went from 84 to 78 while losing a lot of weight. And then back last year, June 26, 35 % body fat, 84 pounds. That's a great job. Regina, great job.

1:33:47Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Really good job. By the way, I mean, it's obvious that you took the advice at Orange Theory because that wouldn't have happened if you would have taken the class the way they, you know, pushed the red zone and everybody's moving through. So I can tell just by your results. And so that being said, you don't have to quit OTF. Yeah. If you are applying what you've heard from us talking about it, like if you really are that client that ignores the fast-paced circuit and takes your rest periods, pushes the weight. When you get to the treadmill section, you do incline walking instead of the sprinting all out.

1:34:29Sal Di Stefano:It's not bad at all. but most people fall into the competitive trap and they they get into a circuit training where uh if it's it's obvious to me that you've done a good job in that you've you've held most of your muscle which is really hard to do in a glp1 and running a class like that so where are your calories at um i so i track really well for about 75 of the day and then by the end i kind of am winging it, but I'm usually around 2000. That's not bad at all. So Regina, I'm assuming you're

1:35:01Adam Schafer:using terzepatide from a compound pharmacy? No, I'm getting it right from Eli Lilly. Okay. Okay. So here's what would happen. We have a cheaper way for you to get that, by the way. Yes. But here's what would happen if you stopped the GLP and stopped OTF. You would gain everything right back. But I think you know that, right? Yeah. And so your question, I love that you're coming to us with this question because you have the right idea. What's the off-ramp look like? Because when you look at the data, the data shows that when people stop at GLP, they gain the weight back. Now, there's a reason why this happens.

1:35:38Adam Schafer:Part of it is you lose this strong GLP signal that reduces our appetite, kind of changes our, you know, how food affects us in a hedonistic way, so we don't crave it as much, blah, blah, blah. But the other part of it is that through that process, people don't work on the behaviors that stick or the good behaviors that can stick after the GLP. And they also don't focus on exercise in a way that's the most effective. Because what we want to do post-GLP with you is we want to focus on building your metabolism. Now, Orange Theory is okay. Traditional strength training is in another universe for that.

1:36:20Adam Schafer:Now, if you told me that you went to Orange Theory because you love the community, if like your friends are there, you want to connect with them, then I would push you to stay there. But if you're like, look, I just go because it's set up for me, which is what you said, then I would say, let's set you up so that you have a routine, but one that's more effective for what we're looking for. Then with the GLP, here's what it looks like. And this is the protocol that we're getting from some of our friends who are experts at this is they scale people's doses down while working with a coach on behavior modification.

1:36:59Yeah. Okay.

1:37:00Adam Schafer:So to give you an example, someone may be an overeater because they are, when they're anxious or when they're sad and it's a way to self-medicate, for example. Those are two common ones, right? Then what we're going to do is we're going to try to replace what you might have done with food with other behaviors. Now, there's a silver lining here, and that is that the neural networks that were so strong before the GLP-1 with how you use food have actually weakened because you haven't used that like you did before. So we're actually going to really get a great place to develop new neural networks, new behaviors.

1:37:39Adam Schafer:years. So your success rate is actually really good if you coach your way through this and you scale down on the medication and don't just drop it off. Now you can't do that with the Eli Lilly because it's pre-loaded, but you can with a compound pharmacy. So compound pharmacy, same medication. It's like ibuprofen and Advil. It's the same, same thing with the compound pharmacy. You get a vial and then you can scale the dose down yourself. And then you work with the doctor and you're like, okay, I was on this dose. Let's go on this week on this dose. And then what they can do is you can be like, Hey, listen, man, uh, I went on the lower dose this week.

1:38:14Adam Schafer:And for the last two weeks, like I, it's uncontrollable. I feel the appetite and I'm having a tough time. Like, all right, let's scale you up for again. And let's stay, let's step down a little slower. And so you can kind of do this up, down, scale down process with baby step it down. That's right.

1:38:28Sal Di Stefano:Yes.

1:38:29Adam Schafer:And if you're already paying out of pocket, you'll actually save money with the compound pharmacy anyway, it's going to be cheaper anyway. Okay. So what I would suggest to you, if you really want to make this stick, you want the best, best, best possible approach would be to work with a coach through this process and then be able to work with a, get your GLP from a compound pharmacy and work with a doctor that scales it down. And then that process would probably look like, I don't know, three or six months of off ramping. and then you got the GLP in your back pocket. If four months later, you're like, oh my God, this is good.

1:39:06Adam Schafer:And then you go back on and then kind of, and so we've, I've seen people do that. Well, they'll jump on two or three times and then finally get off and then they're all good. So there's definitely light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. Great. The other two things about orange theory that I've kind of informed this thought process are that there's only so high you can go with weights, right? Like there's a limit to those dumbbells. And then with the, I don't want to say it's random because I know there's a structure, but with my schedule, you know, I might be hitting the two, the same, two of the same body parts, two days in a row, and then three days later doing something else.

1:39:37And I, it feels a little inconsistent. Yeah.

1:39:40Sal Di Stefano:No, it's not, it's not ideal. You honestly, you, you did the best you could do with it. You did, you did a great job. You really did. I'm really proud of what you did. You applied to this because you did a hell of a job.

1:39:52Adam Schafer:I'll give you the ideal. So the ideal would be you work with one of our coaches, have them individualize your workout program. Whatever results you're getting from Orange Theory, you're going to get way better results with individualized strength training. And they'll coach you through the nutrition behavior part. And then I'll send you a link to our people who work with a compound pharmacy. And you can compare the prices and do the whole thing. You'll probably end up saving money. Not probably. I know she will.

1:40:18Sal Di Stefano:It's significantly cheaper.

1:40:19Adam Schafer:Yeah. And, uh, and then through that process, you tell them, Hey, my goal with this is I'm already taking it. My goal is to scale it down. And then they'll, they'll do that. They'll work through, uh, a scale down process and then they'll individualize it and you'll be in contact with them, uh, through this process. You could always message them. Uh, you'll have a dashboard. You'll be able to message them as, Hey, I think that dose was too low. Uh, is it okay if I bump it up again, type of deal in the work with you. And then you'll work with your coach simultaneously. And I think this is probably, you're probably looking at a three or six month process.

1:40:49Adam Schafer:Okay. And then one last question for you. So you see my weight there. I'm five foot nine. And I honestly never thought like this kind of success would be available to me. So I'm like, okay, now where does this go? Like if I'm going into perimenopause at the healthiest weight, body fat percentage, I can be like, I'm not super worried. I mean, I obviously want to look good, but like, where is that body fat percentage? you know, best for success. Mid 20s. Yeah. You're probably, yeah. Mid 20s is a nice target. You're not far from there. Yeah. You're not, you're doing, you're doing great. Okay. So honestly, here's the other thing too.

1:41:25Adam Schafer:So, uh, the way that usually we work with a GLP one patient as they're scaling down is we time it with a reverse diet. It just works out better. Your appetite's going up anyway. Let's build some muscle. Let's boost your metabolism. We do a reverse diet. Then we set you up for a nice cut. And then that's when the 5 % body fat drops off your body. okay so that's the strategy cool yeah doing good awesome doing really good so i'll send you the link you can talk to uh the doctors there and then i'm gonna um have a coach call you and you can talk to the coach about this and then it'll be great if we see you in there i'll pop in yeah

1:42:00Sal Di Stefano:i'd love to hear back from you in about three to six months too it'd be cool to catch back up but

1:42:04Adam Schafer:you've done really well on your own yes like really good job yep thank you guys thank you really appreciate your time thank you all right have a great rest of your day thank you she's gonna crush i know she's totally great place right now she's 100 i couldn't wait for doug to pull up

1:42:20Sal Di Stefano:the because obviously we're listening to the otf and the glp1 and one oh this is gonna be bad and i saw that she had posted her results and i'm like let's see because it'll tell the whole story she crushed absolutely i mean that is that is uh an example of how you can use that in fact her

1:42:37Adam Schafer:lean body mass was lower in the second measurement than it was the last. She actually built muscle at the end.

1:42:43Sal Di Stefano:The only way they have is she deliberately did her own rest periods. Oh, yeah.

1:42:47Adam Schafer:I know that. And she hit her protein targets.

1:42:50Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, and protein targets. Yeah, I know. She did a good job.

1:42:53Adam Schafer:Usually what you see, because what is that? That's almost 40 pounds of weight loss.

1:42:59Sal Di Stefano:Half and half.

1:42:59Adam Schafer:Usually you would see 40 pounds and a good 15 of it. Oh, yeah, at least.

1:43:04Sal Di Stefano:It's almost half, especially on the GLP-1. What a tough great time for her to transition for sure. Our next caller is Jake from Wisconsin. What's up, Jake? How you doing, Jake? What's happening? Hey, hey guys. Great to talk with you. Thanks for taking your time with me. You got it, dude.

1:43:16Adam Schafer:How can we help you? Yeah. I just want to start off by, you know, saying thank you for all you guys do for us out here, you know, just living our lives in the world and whatnot. My wife has been a listener since 2018 and she got me on the train 2019. So I've been with you guys for a while. Thanks. So in February, she started training with one of your trainers. and kind of got my butt kicked a little bit. So I was like, hey, let's do a little challenge here, right? Let's see who can get in the best shape by the end of August. So our anniversary is beginning of September.

1:43:46Sal Di Stefano:And she gets one of our coaches? It gets worse, bro. You're fucked, Jake. You're so fucked. That's why I'm on here, right? Okay. All right. We'll help you out as much as we can right here. So we're just doing eye tests, you know, whoever looks better. So obviously she's going to win, like all the stuff.

1:44:05Adam Schafer:yeah i'm like what are you talking about i know you for sure tell her she won yeah you just gotta concede that hey man i'm not i'm not stupid we're all right yeah yeah yeah he still wins

1:44:14Sal Di Stefano:he still wins yeah yeah smart guy yeah she was also in like the top one percent of listeners on spotify last year so yeah oh wow oh yeah so started off in february i'm just about to finish up anabolic for the first time i've kind of been a yo-yo worker outer person for the last you know eight years or so. Started off calories were 2 ,600. I bumped up to 29 right now where I'm kind of stabilized at 188 to 190 for my weight, eating 180 grams of protein a day. My lifts are going up pretty good. I just got my one rep max incline up to 190. Squats about 270. I'm still a little bit away from my goal on where I want to be with that.

1:44:58So especially the incline, I got like indents where I should have pecs, right? So it's like, I really want that chest to blow up. Other information, I'm a 34-year-old. I work a desk job. I work in IT. Got four kids under 10. Winter's over here. So I'm going to start getting my activity up. So I'm looking forward to that. I currently have anabolic performance in MAPS 15. So I guess what the question is, is what should I be doing for the next four months if I win, quote unquote win? Yeah. and just wondering what I should do for my nutrition, how much I should go up to for my calories and all that stuff.

1:45:36So please help me beat my wife. You got, you got four months static goal.

1:45:39Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. You got four more months. Yep. We started in February. So that's kind of like a seven month time. It's something we're trying to build though. Right. That's, it sounds like you're more interested in building than you are. Here's what you do, dude. You take,

1:45:49Adam Schafer:you take her favorite candy bar and you hide them throughout the house. Sabotage sprinkling her Morgan. Your wife, dude. And you win. She's been baking all sorts of stuff, dude. I'm done for it. You know, you got to reverse diet, followed by a cut and uh and focus on getting stronger at the end when you're cutting a phase one style anabolic program is good because you want low volume when you're cutting do you need to cut you look like you're pretty lean i've always been skinny guys so this is uh the most i've ever weighed is one one night he'd probably bulk all the way i know he could you might yeah you might as well just build just keep building you'll probably look the best you've ever looked

1:46:23Sal Di Stefano:yeah just keep going yeah it sounds like you're actually doing a good job it's and it sounds more than anything else is just consistently keep doing that heavy lifting like keep keep getting stronger keep hitting your protein consistently don't miss don't miss your workouts revert and keep bumping the calories i i if i was coaching you i'd be trying to keep push those calories 200 calories every couple weeks so we'd go up 200 i'd be hearing your feedback how do you feel how your workouts how your lifts um and then hey let's go up another 200 i would just keep inching you up like 200 calories every other week or so and keep pushing pushing that and pushing weight and strength and consistency and i think you'll build right into this this competition and hopefully we'll probably look and feel the best you've ever felt cool yeah so that last month i would kind of do a cut then or if you wanted to if you wanted to if you're already a pretty

1:47:15Adam Schafer:lean guy you know what your percentage body fat sits at yeah about 19 19 to 20 oh yeah no okay so So if we're at 19 to 20, yeah, then what I would do is reverse diet for about two, two and a half months, the last eight weeks or so, then you go into a cut. But when you go into the cut, don't dramatically increase your volume of training. No, no, no. Everybody does that. They go into cut and they start doing crazy cardio and stuff. You go into cut and you actually drop the volume a little bit and the low rep phases tend to be better because the volume is lower. so it would probably be like an 8 week reverse diet followed by like an 8 week mild kind of nice cut.

1:47:52Sal Di Stefano:I'll give you some generic advice that should work pretty well knowing where your numbers are and what he just gave you so do exactly what he said if we do that right your calories should be upwards of 3500 calories by the time it comes time to cut okay? Okay so literally take your 3500 calories drop it down to like 29 to 3000 calories every week for those 8 weeks try and get 2000 more steps per week per day so in other words like let's say you average 8 000 steps a day or 6 000 steps a day so week one of that cut get up to 8 000 week two of the cut get up to 10 000 do that through just activity and walking until you have to get on a treadmill or you have to get on a elliptical to get those steps up literally do that in that that deficit for 600 calorie deficit all week you'll get and don't change anything else just do that all the way you'll drop a good you'll drop close to a percent body for a week with something yes that'll be a perfect like if you ramp up goal should be to get up to 35 3600 calories just slowly inching your way up getting stronger final eight weeks getting ready for is is the cut the cut looks like drop about 600 calories and every week add about 2 000 steps that should lean you out nicely right into that and don't change anything else all right sounds good that's a pretty good map one last question so can you guys just encourage my wife she's kind of one of these people who like worries about the weight right so just encourage her stick with the plan yeah you know just don't do it yeah you don't do you know who her coach is because maybe we could peek in on one of her calls mary she just shouted from the other side of the wall okay okay okay no good she's working with a

1:49:26Adam Schafer:coach she's doing great yeah yeah yeah we actually i just like to just tell her we appreciate the support yep thank you so much for listening to the show for as long as she has yeah even if it

1:49:34Sal Di Stefano:even if it took Jake three years to finally get on board. Yeah, I can only listen to you guys so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right on. Well, yeah, I love a pick of the two of you guys before you guys hit your vacation. It'd be cool to see kind of the before and after and everything like that. We'll pick the winner. Yeah, yeah. That's what I said.

1:49:54Adam Schafer:She said no on that, but I'm like, I'm just going to do it anyways.

1:49:56Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. Love it, dude. You guys keep it up, dude. All right, Jake. All right, man. Thanks. Take it easy.

1:50:02Adam Schafer:That sounds like a trap, right? At the end of this. Oh, yeah. We'll just look at each other and say who won. Like, bro. Like, where do you get your friends to judge or what?

1:50:10Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, dude. How's that work? That's a trap, dude. I mean, I think he knows what he's doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I feel like he knows what he's doing. I think he has every intention to lose.

1:50:21Adam Schafer:Exactly. I would. I would, too. I don't know. I get real competitive. Yeah, let's do this. I'm crushing. Yeah, yeah. That's great. Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram, Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

1:51:01With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family we thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump