2890: Speed Training for Athletes | How to Sprint Faster Without Getting Hurt w/ Brian Kula

19:37And so I think exposing athletes to some of the, you know, the, the, um, overcoming isometrics, some altitude drops, you know, things like that, where you're exposing the nervous system to really high levels of, of output is a must, you know, that's always kind of been a thread in what, you know, I've done with my, you know, athletes. Now I don't do it every day, kind of like they did. And I don't know what would happen if I did, if it's better or worse, I still think that an athlete needs good concentric, you know, it has to be really strong, needs to run fast, needs, it needs nervous system exposures.

20:06So it's a, you know, training athletes. That's why these are always great conversations because everyone thinks they got the system. And like, I think if we're, I guess, humble enough, we can sit back and go, they probably need a little bit of all of it, you know, and, and putting that together is probably the best system.

20:21Adam Schafer:How do you determine a recovery for an athlete? Is it based off of their perception? Is it based off of what you see? Are you looking at heart rate variability? Like what are your, what are your measures? I mean, I think after as long as I've done it, I kind of know what we're doing and how long that's going to take to recover at some level. I think I'm trying to max, I'm trying to max rest and recovery as much as I can, you know, which is kind of a paradigm flip from, you know, where we were, you know, when I went to high school and we just grinded and did as much as we could, as often as we could with high level athletes that have really high output, more, the more rest, the better, right.

20:54More sleep, more days in between high intensity days. You know, Charlie Francis was kind of a guy that was a high, low system, you know, guy. And I think he was spot on with, you know, you have a heavy day, you better come back with a little bit lighter day the next day. And again, that's all neural, you know, it's not like, I mean, I think our muscles and they can go, you know, we can, we can lift every day, things like that. But when it comes to the nervous system, you got to be really careful. So some of that would be like data outputs, you know, whether it's force plates and we're looking at their counter movement jump and we're going to make decisions based on where we see them do they need extra rest do they need another day um so that would be part of it would be the data collection would you do that like okay so we could

21:29Sal Di Stefano:you're i'm an athlete i'm training with you we've been training for a while when i first come in is there a series of like real basic tests like that that you that you do just like kind of a set okay what are those yeah force plates i mean you know we have some performance tests we're always going to run like fly 10 you know like a 20 yard build 10 yard fly so we kind of know where their max velocity is. That's a huge indicator of kind of where they're at. Now we obviously have to get to a place of warmup potentiation, run that fly rep, and now we know where they're at. And that might tell us what we're doing next.

21:59So you kind of plan for part of the session and then see where it's going to go from there. And then the force plates are another excellent tool to be able to get an assessment on a kid. And you could do that almost daily. I think sometimes if you go every day, it gets a little monotonous and the kids kind of stop putting into it. So it'd be more of a, but maybe once a week, you're kind of just checking to see where they're at. Oh, they're, you know, they had four volleyball games this weekend. They jumped like dog shit on Monday. So we're going to take a day off, maybe even an extra day off, and then we'll hit them hard on Wednesday.

22:29Yeah. So I love this.

22:31Sal Di Stefano:Cause this is very similar to how we teach trainers to assess this with clients before they go into strength training. We use grip strength. Yep. Grip strength. So it's like, yeah, see how they get a baseline. They're squeezed at this all the time. Oh, wow. They came in, they say they feel great, but then they're squeezing at 50 % of what they normally do. like that's the data to back it off very similar with like the force plate yeah yeah we went down the the the last year we used a lot of whoop data um and looked and studied that with our academy kids that we were working with and i mean how helpful was it or was it it was it was valuable to see especially sleep indicators right just kind of know how kids were sleeping and how they were recovering you know you start to you definitely started to see trends you know now what we dealt with is you know we could make decisions on our end of things but the sport wouldn't necessarily make adjustments.

23:14So now you're kind of battling in between that and trying to make sure they stay healthy. One of the things the Soviets did really well

23:21Adam Schafer:was they would periodize, and it was like, I don't care how you feel. This is deload, and this is what we're doing. Whereas the U.S. at that time was very much based off, let me just see what I can do and how I feel. How important is it for an athlete? I would imagine it's really important because the athletic mind, especially at a high level, I might not even perceive that I'm tired like a normal person because I just know how to push myself. How important is it like, no, we're following this routine. I don't care what you say. It's huge. It's huge because to your point, like all those high level guys that I get to work with, they, they don't, they never think they're tired.

23:54Like they want to go full till all the time. And so you really have to do a good job of like, you know, I usually go in like a four week block where we kind of have like, you know, you know, light week, medium, heavy week. And then we come back down to a light week and we keep undulating on that, you know, in the off season, just because if you just keep going, and they'll just keep coming with you, which eventually ends to an injury. And with those guys, they don't need to be really fully ready until September. If we're being honest, and I'm training a guy in March, I mean, how ready does he need to be for OTAs if he's a year seven guy?

24:25Yeah, yeah. We want him healthy enough and ready enough, but then we're going to come back in the summer and really give them kind of a final ramp up into their season, which is when it matters.

24:34Sal Di Stefano:When does it take, like at what point in the training cycle with the athlete, do you get that kind of full like i relating it to what we do right yeah so like there's a lot of times where i'm telling a client like you know i want you to do this do that and they're like skeptical as shit like i feel like i can do more i feel like i'm eating too much all these things and then the the aha moment is they hit a pr body fat percentage goes down like and then it's like okay now they're bought and they'll do that what does that look like in the athletic world like what is what is that because i'm sure you get guys are like i could do more and this is not kidding me i've spent 30 years defending what i do to you know especially the higher end athlete You know, it doesn't matter if it's a pro or just a really good high school kid.

25:11And, you know, that that kid's got a dad in his ear or a mom in her ear. And, you know, so you're always kind of having to justify what that what that does and looks like. I think, you know, success leaves clues. I think, you know, and I'm certain that you get a lot less questions than some of your junior trainers. Of course. You know, I think I'm probably similar in that I don't get as many questions anymore. But when I was young, I felt like I had to justify everything. And here's what we're going to do and here's why we're going to do it. But then after, you know, a few state titles, a few NFL players of the year, a few, you know, people stop asking so many questions.

25:41Yeah, you don't get that shit now.

25:42Sal Di Stefano:I'm sure you don't get that at all. But if I get a new client, you know, like, I mean, I worked with a couple of new clients this year, some big names. And, you know, they were like, it's different than what he's done before. So I got to start with the re-education process all over again. Like, here's why we're doing it. Here's how it's going to go. Here's what you can expect. Yeah. And, you know, you kind of have to have that on the tip of your tongue with those guys because, you know, they're multimillion dollar athletes. And what does it look like then? So when, so getting that rebuy in, is it's like, is it the first time they see like a number where their speed is a little bit and they're like, Oh, okay.

26:12Sal Di Stefano:I'm listening to this dude now. Yeah. Uh, with the younger kids, it's really easy because you get a lot of data and you get a lot of data influx when they start training, their numbers just keep spiking. Right. And that's just that young adaptable, you know, athlete, the older athletes, we're not necessarily looking to like, you know, an NFL guy in his fifth year, isn't going to put two miles an hour on in the off season. sure. It's not going to happen. Really. It's more of how do they feel? Right. Like, Oh man, my body feels good. I feel light. I feel like I can jump again. I feel stable. I feel, so it's a lot of conversation just around how their bodies are feeling.

26:44Um, which is massive. And you know, that's, again, we were talking a little bit about this earlier with the human approach to coaching. You got to have a lot of interaction and it can't all be done on a computer. It's not a spreadsheet thing, you know? And so we have to have a conversation, you know, what's your wellness feeling like? And then as they start to go, man, I, now I, now i see it and then they'll have a rep you know where they run like maybe it's an acceleration you know rep and they're like oh that felt good yeah and it looks good and we videoed it you know

27:11Sal Di Stefano:then that's the validation that makes sense because thinking from a like you said a pro athlete who's been doing this forever it's like i'm not probably hitting pr times vertical like i'm not breaking any records but i do know how i've been playing in the league for six years i know what my body feels like when i've played a game and done this and like oh shit i feel good yeah like that's probably a big and a lot of it's just the the mind game right they want to feel good right they want to be healthy enough they want to feel good and if we can just kind of get them back to like you know baseline we're in pretty good shape because a lot of those guys i mean they're in car accidents for 17 games and it's just kind of putting humpty dumpty back together again you know to get ready for otas then get them back in the summer and now kind of you know spit polish it up before training camp is there is there a balance that when you're taking

27:56Adam Schafer:a high-level athlete where you're seeing something biomechanically that you're like, oh, I could work on that. However, they've been running that way for so long and they're so good at it that I'm afraid to correct that because it might actually slow them down because is there that balance that you got to play with? And how do you deal with that high-level athlete? Yeah, I think you do. I mean, I think there's certain things you have to address, right? I used like, I worked with Saquon Barkley a couple of years ago and we were out on the track and he looked at me and said, coach, all this stuff you're telling me, I think I've been running wrong my whole life.

28:25because he really was kind of a plantar flex, kind of a reacher guy, but of course he overcomes it because he squats the whole studio. You know what I mean? The guy's a monster, but those are, that was something I felt like I needed to address, you know, now are there other things that you maybe just like let go by the wayside and also to like, I'm not a physiotherapist, right. I'm not necessarily looking at, you know, I usually have a partner with me. If there's like some kind of internal, external rotational problem, and we got to work on some muscles that are shut on or off, you might need some like manual therapy, you know, interaction with that.

28:56And that's not my, you know, that's not my forte necessarily. So you might have to work with somebody if it's really, you know, a small minute thing that needs to change.

29:03Sal Di Stefano:Do you have, do you have like archetypes that you could kind of, you know, fall back on in terms of like, okay, this person looks like they're this for the running mechanics. And then you can kind of sort of adjust their training in that direction. Or is it like pretty individual every person? um i mean i think what i always say is like i feel like every athlete needs everything it's just how much dosage you know it's like if we all made chili at some point we'd all have kind of the same ingredients in there but you might put more meat you might put more beans you might put more sauce you know or whatever it is so i think with athletes it's very similar of you know but you might have like a really twitchy athlete that might not need as much neural exposure but might need to just get stronger so we're going to tailor them with a little bit more weight room you know a little more concentric strength work.

29:47Or there's an athlete that's just strong as heck and maybe doesn't react to the ground well. So we're going to do a lot more RFD work and jumping and plyometric work. It all gets individualized.

29:57Adam Schafer:Give me the best strength training exercises that you've seen for speed. And are they different for young athletes versus older athletes? No, I don't think so. I mean, I think some of the top concentric lifts I like are trap bar deadlift, safe, easy, touches seven different muscle groups, really kind of mimics some of the positions. you're pushing into the ground. I like that a lot. I think box squat is awesome. Um, you know, where you get to break concentric, eccentric chain and, uh, concentrating on both of those, both heavy, but also in velocity. So making sure that you're lifting a little bit lighter weight, but, but fast.

30:29Um, and then like overcoming isos, you know, like a split squat lunge, um, you know, getting in there for 10 seconds and really fire in there. That's a fast twitch movement, even though you're not actually moving, the brain has to operate at such a high level to hold you in place. And this is when you're like

30:45Adam Schafer:pressing into something that is not moving. And you're just driving it. Exactly. How often do you use isometrics? Every day. The data on isometrics is wild. It's crazy to me how little they're used in traditional strength training. They're not an evangelist forever. The strength gains that you see in the data, actually there's faster strength gains in the first few weeks than isometrics than anything else. So you said you use them every single day. Yeah, every day. And they're always a part of someone's routine. Yep, exactly. And there's yielding, there's overcoming, there's extensive isometrics, long duration, one minute, three minutes kind of stuff.

31:22But kind of to potentiate the session, we'll get in and do like a 10-second isometric overcoming. And you get that in the beginning? In the beginning. Okay, so you set the routine up with that once they're warmed up. Because there's really low residual, right? You don't get really sore from isometric. There's not a lot of fatigue on the back end. But you can really get the system going. and then we'll usually pair that with like a plyometric some kind of altitude drop or a you know box jump or something like that then we'll start to get into more of the concentric you know heavy trap bar deadlift pair that with a vertical jump something like that you know what's wild

31:53Adam Schafer:about isometrics is that was like a bodybuilder staple for a long time and then you just stopped yeah doing them and my theory is they just look boring i think that's a thing they're not very

32:02Sal Di Stefano:sexy yeah i would say they are a little boring but also you don't do an instagram post with it

32:07Adam Schafer:It's like, here's me pushing into something that's for 10 seconds. Just keep watching.

32:11Sal Di Stefano:They're hard, effective, and safe. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, it's not stressed enough. There's such great results for tendons and ligaments as well. And that's another reason we'd use them. That's why I say they're going to be in there every day. Because even if we're not doing it for like a strength exposure, we're going to hit it for some kind of like tendon tissue health. Because if you get into like just a split ISO lunge, your patella knee pain will go away.

32:34Adam Schafer:What are some of the biggest changes you've seen in athletic training over the last few decades? Because you've been doing this for a while. I have. What are the big groundbreaking changes or switches that now you see? I think I got asked that the other day. I think what I've seen is like full circle. I really feel like my dad was a strength coach back in the day, and he was big with watching Boyd Epley and Husker Power and kind of that whole scene. And a lot of it was influenced by the Soviets. Well, that's kind of what I learned. And then here we are 30 years later, And I feel like it's all coming back to some of that very same stuff.

33:04And we, we went like functional training and, you know, all these different, I feel like it's all the same for our space.

33:11Sal Di Stefano:Totally. Yeah. I feel like the stuff we talk about now is like the most basic shit that we knew 30 years ago. I think, I think the thing nowadays is like, there's so much access to information that it's just like flooded and now it's just cutting through the noise and figuring out what really works, you know? And, but if you look back and go, you know, Hey, here's what I did with, you know, Christian, you know, a couple of years ago that seemed to work really well. kid had a you know phenomenal season and then i look back at you know what they were doing in the 70s with the soviets i'm like there's a lot of things that are common in there you know so i mean you got to be strong you got to be fast you got to you know rest and recover what was wrong

33:45Adam Schafer:with the functional quote-unquote stuff that was real popular like in the late 90s early 2000s you know when you're standing on like balance boards and physio yeah yeah i just think it lacked a little bit of like, um, that exposure to concentric strength, you know, like I, I still think that, you know, again, it's the lowest hanging fruit. If a kid gets strong and athlete gets stronger, they're going to move better. They're going to run faster. Um, you know, unfortunately that it's not the only thing it can't stop there, but I still think that's got to be a part of the program. And so I think functional training just kind of took that out of there, you know, oh, we're not going to back squat.

34:16We're not going to, you know, pick up that heavy deadlift because it's dangerous and everything. Well, you know, there, there's some things that bulletproof you by picking up heavy deadlift, you know, strong, low back, you know, glutes, like all the things that are good about sport that you got to have that in there.

34:30Adam Schafer:What kind of young athletes are typically brought to you? Imagining is very motivated and the parents are super into it. Yeah. Is it harder to train the kid or is it harder to work with the parents when you're dealing with that? Um, you know, we haven't really had bad experience with parents. I mean, I think sometimes, you know, you've got so much authority. I'm assuming they'd be like, you go. Yeah. And even my staff, you know, like I've been out of the building now for call it 18 months and they're thriving. And I think our coaches have a great understanding of what relationship looks like. And we just haven't had a lot of overbearing, you know, parents get a bad rap these days.

35:00I feel like, right. Oh, this dad, I had this mom or this psycho dad or whatever. And I mean, they, they're obviously they've, they've invested in their kid. They want them to come get great training. And I think, you know, how the trainer interacts with the kid makes a huge difference and that, you know, the kids show up and work hard. And I think because they're, they're paying for a service. So they want to be there. It's not like they dropped them often have to be there you know which i think is usually where problems start yeah so i don't think

35:23Adam Schafer:we've had really problems with either is there any type of training uh that you that can be done to help prevent uh hand injury uh because that's such a that's such a unknown thing now i mean i remember reading data on soccer players even soccer and cte and is there anything that people can do training wise to help prevent that from is it like strengthening i know boxers for a long time strengthen their neck is there any truth to that yeah i know i definitely think so i mean there's some things you just can't help, right? Like if you're a NFL guy and you know, you get hit, you know, back of the head, hitting the turf, it's going to happen.

35:54But I guess if your neck's a little stronger and you can lighten the impact because you're, you're strong in your, you know, your neck and your upper chest, that's probably probably the way to go. I don't spend a ton of time on that, you know, necessarily with, even with my football players, um, we'll do some neck exercises, but, uh, yeah, I think sometimes a little bit unavoidable. My daughter was a college soccer player and she had, I don't know how many concussions from just even heading the ball. let alone head to head with another athlete.

36:20Adam Schafer:So a lot of focus is speed. Let's make you run fast, which has got the greatest carryover for - Well, it's the, I mean, I really think it can be like a cover a multitude of sins. That's everything. You're fast. You can almost keep yourself out of trouble, right? It's like when you - It's safer for collisions, right? Yeah, exactly. You're accelerating through it. Yeah, or don't have as many collisions because you're really fast. Yeah, yeah. You're like, there's something.

36:43Sal Di Stefano:Well, you brought up Saquon and Christian. You've trained so many great athletes. Do you get impressed still? And take me through some moments of like, I can only imagine first time working with Christian or Saquon and they did something and you're like, holy shit. Like I want to hear stories like that of like moments in your career, like which athletes have impressed you like that. Well, you guys know I worked with Christian when he was in high school. And I mean, from the time he was a freshman, sophomore in high school, he was doing things where it was, you know, like, did that just happen?

37:17Like, that kid's going to play on Sundays, you know, as a 16-year-old. Did you feel that, like, the moment you met him, like, the first time you seen him move or do something? I mean, I watched him play eighth-grade football and an eighth-grade basketball game. And I mean, I watched him dunk a basketball in eighth grade at, like, 5 '10", or 5 '9". Yeah, that's not common. He was different, you know, definitely different. And then, and then paired with that was his mentality of, you know, I want to be the best and he did everything that he possibly could do to be the best. And now we have the best.

37:44So, uh, yeah, he was different. I mean, I think I worked with Saquon a little bit in the weight room a couple of days and it was just like, I've really not been around somebody that was just that like naturally strong. So that was, you know, he's kind of freaky. And, uh, this winter I got AJ Brown a little bit. Um, and that guy for as big as he is when he first, you know, started doing some speed stuff and the way he moved at 227 pounds or whatever was that much was wow i mean it was impressive so yeah all those guys i mean solomon thomas you guys remember solomon thomas he was a number three draft pick here for the 49ers back when christian got drafted and um i mean i've seen that guy you know we do some gymnastica kind of stuff like on our tuesday workouts and he was with us training once and he's down on all fours kind of like moving around the room and i mean it was like the most fluid thing i've ever seen he's 285 pounds just like moves like a cat so yeah all those guys have a level of impressiveness to them that you know they just move different now when

38:39Sal Di Stefano:you like work with these guys like do you really uh i mean you're probably super busy but do you still get the time to like sit and watch the game and watch like some of your work unfold and like do you get do you have an appreciation for that yeah for sure you see saquon doing 360 over Yeah, jump in the air over, guys. Yeah, no, I taught him that, right? No, I only got to work with him for about a week. But, I mean, it was – yeah, it's – I mean, people ask me, like, who's your favorite football team? And I'm like, well, I'm kind of a fan of the player, right? Because when you spend a little bit of time with them, you know, I spend a decade with Christian or more, and some of those guys would come in for a week or two at a time.

39:14You're breaking bread with them. You're getting to know them. And, yeah, I mean, I can't wait to watch them play on Sundays, even if they only get a few snaps or, you know, they're playing the whole game, I'm locked in.

39:23Adam Schafer:Yeah, Brian, we probably have some parents of female athletes, and the rate of ACL tears of female athletes is significantly higher than with male athletes. Is there anything you can do or that people can do or you do with your female athletes in particular to help prevent that type of an injury? Yeah, you can. I mean, I think that's almost similar to the concussion deal of like when there's exposure, there's just going to be incident. And, you know, females have, there's been a lot of research and study out there of just their anatomy, right? Hips are a little wider than their knee base. And so they tend to have that angle that's not great for that.

39:57Menstrual cycle has a ton to do with ACL injuries. Oh, really? Oh, huge. Is it when they're what? When they're on their cycle, it tends to be about, I may misquote this so you can check into it for me, but I think it's over like 80 % of when they tear their ACL are usually menstruating. And now that probably connected to, I was going to say, hormone, sleep, and recovery.

40:15Sal Di Stefano:I would think those three factors play into that, right? Which is, you know, it's nice to know, but like, how do you deal with it? That's the question. It's like, oh, we got a playoff game and I'm, you know, I'm on my period. Well, you're going to play anyway, probably. So, you know, now there are some exercises and stuff, though, to prevent some knee valgus and make sure they have really good, you know, external hip rotation and stuff to keep things strong and in alignment, which would be helpful. But a lot of stuff you see is even non-contact, which, you know, isn't necessarily like a strength issue or whatever.

40:44They're just, you know, hormones or. Cut the wrong game. Yeah, exactly. So. Wow. A lot of exposures to those, the deceleration, the eccentric loading. Just get their body good at doing the things that tend to cause injury. Exactly. Because if you're all gas, no brakes in those kind of sports, you're in trouble. Because you might be able to produce enough force, but then how do you stop?

41:04Adam Schafer:Okay. I'm going to create a scenario for you to see if there's anything you could do. So you've got an athlete who's training, and they're like, you need some better recovery, but we've got to gain in a week. What are the tools that you use to really help with recovery? Is it just mostly sleep? Is it, are you using ice? Like what are the tools? No, I think first and foremost is sleep and nutrition, right? Like, I mean, I think you can't get too far away from that. You know, there's, there's different products out there of, you know, compression boots and saunas and things like that, that I think would be beneficial.

41:34I'm working with a company right now called Air Therapeutics and they have a CO2 delivery system of paste and a suit where you can actually, it's called the bore effect. It basically helps deliver oxygen from the off the hemoglobin into tissue and muscle. And so, you know, everything that you're always after with, you know, the sleep with the, you know, all the different modalities is to try to utilize oxygen better to repair and heal tissue. And so this actually gives us a really good option. And so the paste can be used as like a recovery. It can be used as a rubbed on the area.

42:11Adam Schafer:Yeah. Right on. Right on. Interesting.

42:12Sal Di Stefano:Are we simulating similar benefits like the hyperbaric chamber would give you? Is that kind of along those lines? It's not like the hyperbaric because what a hyperbaric is doing is trying to drive more oxygen into your system. Yeah. And it also has, it's pressurized. So you actually got some vasoconstriction going on. Okay. So you have less blood flow and you're trying to push more oxygen in. Okay. Well, more oxygen isn't any beneficial if it can't get delivered properly. Okay. So what the paste does with the CO2 is it helps actually vasodilate. late. So you get more blood flow and then you get, uh, you know, um, additional, uh, that bore effect where it comes off of the hemoglobin and gets into the tissue more localized.

42:50Yeah. So it's helping the nervous system. It's helping connective tissue, like all those things.

42:55Sal Di Stefano:So would you say, would you say then something like this is better for when you're athletes than a hyperbaric chamber? Yes. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, I think it's like revolutionary, honestly. Yeah. That's a big deal because I just, I've never seen anything like it. I've actually used it myself and i got a bunch of little ailments you know getting older that that i know have a significant difference that i notice um yeah it's a really really cool product i got i got some for you i totally want to try it i've never heard of it i'm trying to think of like what

43:23Adam Schafer:the benefits would be for the average person with something like this and i guess it would be hard workouts yeah my wife you know had a little super spinatus kind of deal going on in her shoulder she put the paste on twice a day for two two days zero pain like i mean you know i i know know, some of the better, you know, physical therapists and chiropractors in town and we can go get treatment and stuff. But all she did was put the paste on and let the, you know, let the body heal naturally, which is what it needs to do is just get that oxygen into the tissue. And it went away. I use it. I get a little bit of like, you know, tendonitis in the elbow from lifting weights and stuff.

43:54And I'll just hit it a couple of times. And it's not like something I have to put on every day. But with some of the athletes, I will encourage them like, hey, it's a max velocity day. Let's put some paste on the hamstrings. Let's get a little extra oxygen flow. So as a pre-workout or during the workout. Oh, wow. How long has this company been around? They haven't been around long. I got kind of connected through them through ETS, which is my new performance company I'm working with. And they introduced me to their COO and he flew down to Nashville and brought the air suit. So they actually have a suit that you can wear where you suck all the oxygen out of it with a vacuum and then fill it up with CO2.

44:29And you just sit in it for a half hour. And it has the same effect, only systemically. so you actually get a little parasympathetic response you know i do it at night before i go to bed oh you sleep did you notice a better sleep 100 oh my god oh wow that's what i know

44:42Adam Schafer:so how does a company like this uh get you to partner with them are they like all right let me meet you here's the data here's the science then you gotta go test the type of deal yeah kind of i mean it was a it was a really weird like uh how we got connected and it's funny because some of the nhl guys that i've worked with were actually using the technology i didn't even know about it. And so when I met the doctor that came up with the technology, he's like, yeah, you know, these guys up in Winnipeg are using it. And it happened to be a guy that I've worked with. So there was just some, some relationships there and they came to me and I think they had the science.

45:14I think they got, you know, the operations of the business going and they wanted somebody who could kind of maybe connect them into some of the marketplace a little bit, especially with the high-end athlete. So like we got AJ Brown into one, Solomon Thomas, you know, some of these guys are using it and they're loving it i mean they're you know so so right now and again i'm not the science guy you know bring the doctor out here to tell you all about it but i know enough about it to understand what it's doing and i've even noticed it on myself so i'd love to be connected

45:40Sal Di Stefano:yeah that's super interesting you know since we're talking about recovery i didn't hear you say and i'm uh red light you guys use red light yeah yeah i mean um another product that i've you know partnered with is dna vibe uh they they little jazz band and so it's a you know it's not it's not red light it's like a uh light therapy though unwearable um okay and i think that stuff i mean again anything that kind of work with your own body's dna the oxygen yeah much better than like even leg boots they're great you know they make me feel a little bit better but they are compressing right and so they're limiting blood flow at some level and what we really want is blood flow so you asked about ice and ice is it's like a no-no for me yeah i'm not even a big fan of cold plunges uh because tell me yeah explain explain why no cold plunge well it it vaso restricts yep it shuts down your nervous system i mean it can shut down your nervous system at a high level for about 24 hours so if you got some kid like you know high school it was kind of popular at my place before i knew any better where the kids are going on a friday and go cold plunge to feel better for the next day and then maybe they wouldn't run as well you know because it takes the nervous system some time to turn back on once you've kind of suppressed it like that in a cold environment interesting That's super interesting considering I would have thought in the athletic world, it's even more popular.

46:51Sal Di Stefano:Because obviously, we've watched this interesting, cold plunging has been around forever. But the popularity of it exploded. Now everybody's doing it. Then you saw the big pushback in the bodybuilding world. Because it's like you want that signal after you lift weights to build muscle. So doing it right after you lift weights is not an ideal time for the guy who wants to build a bunch of muscle. So that started to fall off there. but there was still being told or touted as you have a for athletic training. If you have a high level athlete who's got to recover this, not, but you're saying you don't even, it's similar to the bodybuilding thing.

47:21It's the same thing, right? Like you, you want that, that synthesis, you know, that happens post-workout to, to be effective and take in nutrition and stuff. You don't want to like suppress that and shut it down necessarily. And I'm not, again, I'm not a science guy to understand all the positive things that might happen with that. I just wouldn't necessarily want an athlete doing that too close to a game time. Now, if it makes somebody feel good early in the week, like before a game or whatever, no problem. You know, I don't think it's like bad for you. But, you know, learning more about how oxygen delivery and the stuff with the, with air, the company, I'm just like, I'm all in on that.

47:55Adam Schafer:Tell us a little bit about ETS. This is something you're doing this new. So explain what's going on. Yeah. So ETS is a company based out of Minneapolis. Ryan Engelbert, who trained Adam Thielen and his wife, Heidi started the company And they've been going since 2010, but they reached out when I moved to Nashville and we kind of started conversations and they ended up buying Kula Sports Performance for me. And so now I'm a vested partner with them moving forward, helping them grow. They're now 80 plus locations growing fast. They have a tremendous, tremendous group of people, just faith based group.

48:30And I went to their summit this this winter and was just blown away, kind of reinforced. First, you know, it's really happy that we did partner with them. So I'm helping them with some thought leadership and education stuff and, you know, growth, growth strategies. But, yeah, they're they're exploding. I mean, they'll be the largest performance company in the world. Wow. What's their target?

48:48Adam Schafer:Is their target audience mostly like young athletes? It is. Yeah. I mean, we can serve, you know, the pros and the college kids and stuff. But, I mean, primarily you're going in and, you know, that youth population, 12 to 12 to 18 year olds. And, yeah, they're they're they're crushing it.

49:02Sal Di Stefano:Standalone facilities in gyms. Yeah. Standalone. Standalone. They're all corporately owned. Yeah. So that's not a franchise model. Uh, they have a really unique way of onboarding their coaches. They bring them up to Minneapolis for three months and they onboard them with all the programming and training and, you know, business acumen and everything they need. And then they, you know, about a month out, they, they kind of start promoting and marketing in the area and then they, they launch and open up. Now you're teaching them that your system, all the coaches and they got great systems in place already.

49:31Um, I'm just trying to enhance a little bit of the organization with the movement and the speed development, which is a little bit more my forte and, uh, it's going really well so far. So a lot of education, you know, we have 80 directors and I think eight senior directors. Wow. So it's a, it's a really fun space to be in. And I just have really fallen in love with, with them and they've been great to me. So yeah.

49:51Adam Schafer:Was it tough selling a cool performance? Uh, you know, not really. I mean, they, they, they, uh, he's like, wasn't that difficult bro well i mean you got your name on it you're like to see you know they left the denver building branded uh coolest sports performance which was a nice you know a nice uh gesture of them that's cool it was pretty smart business-wise as well but uh you know they they've been nothing but good to me i don't i don't feel like i've just been absorbed and you know they really kind of put me on a pedestal a little bit and i've been appreciative of that so uh no i really haven't i just you know for me i i mean i didn't go into business to like you know put my name on a t-shirt and you know i'm a bad self-promoter i feel like and so for me this is like my opportunity to help another 50 000 athletes overnight that's like the impact and the reach that i want to have so for me it was just a it was a blessing what are some of the biggest mistakes that common mistakes that young athletes are making or coaches in high school are making with their athletes i think doing too much you know always it huh yeah well yeah i mean especially nowadays and i say it till i'm blue in the face but like the access to information isn't always is a good thing.

50:55So they're just doing everything too much. They're trying to do too much. They don't understand the impact of what all that has. And, you know, and that, that even applies to the sport itself, right? We're playing, you know, a million AAU basketball games we're playing, you know, we're just, we're just doing too much. And, you know, I don't think it's that, you know, we're not trying to be a, I'm not trying to say we should be soft and, you know, whatever, but like, it's, it's a, it's a, how much output do you have? You know, how many, how many swings you got in there?

51:20Sal Di Stefano:You know, we, we haven't had this conversation in a really long time, but we talked with Chad Wesley Smith a long, long time ago about this. And I'd love for your opinion on this. You know, there was this idea back in the days that, you know, I've got an eight-year-old kid and man, he could swing a baseball bat. And so we put him in baseball year round, every trial, like all that, all that. And that was kind of the old way of doing it. In fact, and what most of the research and science has supported is that having him in different sports would serve him better. So how do you feel about that? like what's your philosophy when you work with a young kid you encourage the parents like yeah okay tell me what tell me yeah i mean i what i tell parents now is like at least until they get to high school i'd like to see them be a multi-sport athlete so i do think nowadays it's a lot harder and i was even at a private school at valor in denver there that you know we tried to preach multi-sport even through high school it was just really difficult you know in theory it sounds good yeah but when it comes to the practical side of like hey man i'm trying to make the baseball team and those kids are taking cuts and throwing balls all year round.

52:23And now I'm coming out of basketball, trying to make that team. Yeah, it's tough. And so, you know, I get that. And so what I, what I kind of shifted my mentality to was like, maybe even through your freshman year play, play all the sports, like get, get a good exposure, stay away from overuse injuries. You know, some of those different movement patterns are going to pay off for you down the road, but then at some point you're probably going to have to put all your eggs in a basket because otherwise you're going to just fall behind you know there aren't many sports where i mean i'd say football is still one of those ones where you might be able to jump in late and still have some success yeah because it's a little bit in some levels you know some a lower skill game you know you could jump in and play whatever well i don't i don't mean that disrespectfully i mean trust me if you're a quarterback if you're a wide receiver if you're running back i mean there's different positions that are super skill but you know i'm talking like take baseball you know where that level of skill, you know, and it takes, you know, 10 ,000 hours, I'm sure to, you know, perfect the swing and a pitch and all those things.

53:21And I don't know that you can miss all of that through high school and still be eligible to be a D one or, you know, potentially a professional athlete. And I'm, I'm not delusional. I don't think, you know, most people need to understand you're not going to play pro pro anything, you know, so be, be the best you can be as a JV or a, you know, a varsity. That's a really cool perspective because that's no one

53:41Sal Di Stefano:else's uh came from that angle uh and i think you bring up such great points it's like okay in theory if i had the perfect kid that i could train from you know elementary all the way up you'd be in four sports a year all the way to almost college but the reality is that resonates so much because it's literally the trajectory of already like with my youngest especially because he uh both my kids i got them in gymnastics early because of some of the advice of like these world-class coaches they're like this is where you want to start and then you're gonna move into multi-sport and make sure they get exposure and it's like so he was always like and he's athletic and he has skill but it's not at the degree where his knowledge isn't there like right so he's going to this sport he's doing lacrosse and immediately he's like somewhat talented but doesn't know the rules and he's like way far behind everybody else and then it just like phased him out and you know and so he's he's now kind of reducing it down to like two sports but you know it is a challenge at the end of the day and something you can't put your finger on until maybe way later and sometimes it's too late is like what's their passion like yeah you know the kid might show all kinds of promise but he just might not like it that much yeah and if you don't freaking love it you ain't playing in in the nfl or in the nba you know what i mean so there's got to be an obsession to it that you know some kids may i just think it takes a lot long time to see that and you can usually tell yeah i mean i've been fortunate even when i was at valor i mean a lot of my pro athletes came out of that high school and so i saw them as like freshmen and sophomores, I could have probably tagged the ones and told you that those were going to be the pro athletes, you know, and that was a school that had a high population.

55:14I came from other schools before that. We never had a pro athlete come through. You know what I mean? But you could tell the difference of a Janine Becky, Christian McCaffrey, Mary Beth Sant. You know, I could go down the list of Wyndham Clark who won the U.S. Open. I mean, that kid used to cut class to go train in the middle of the day up in the weight room. So you could just tell there was something different about those, those kids that ended up going and having success.

55:37Adam Schafer:Is gymnastics still one of the best base things to do for your kid? A hundred percent. And why? I think body awareness, a little bit of, you know, body weight, you know, strength, strengthening. And it's, you know, we get, we get people that come into our facilities, kids six, I want to train. And I'm like, ah, how about gymnastics for a couple of years? Come back to us when you're nine. Right. Yeah. You know, they'll, they'll assimilate better, right? Like I go get them some really quality movement patterns and a little bit of strength exposure and then bring them back to us and we'll start doing some of the speed stuff because then otherwise what we're doing is kind of mimicking gymnastics right remedial stuff just go get it just go get it coached up by a gymnastics coach i love gymnastics i think it's great what's one of the most difficult uh sports that you have to train an athlete for or some just harder than others uh i mean i think sports where there's like multi multi capacity or like multi energy system is probably the harder sports to train like soccer is one of them you know where you kind of have this i mean i i personally think it's more of a speed-based sport but then you're covering seven or eight miles a game so there's kind of an endurance component to it as well so it's not so straightforward exactly exactly yeah so you got to kind of cover a lot of different you know things i think a sport like tennis you know where it's again endurance there's speed there's hand-eye coordination there's strategy like all those things going into it, but those are also challenging.

56:59Adam Schafer:Do you, do you help these young athletes with nutrition or is you just focused straightly straight on, on the exercise? I mean, for, for me, like when I'm working with an NFL guy, typically you're not having to, you know, talk about nutrition too much. They usually have someone cooking for them or they're, they're pretty, you know, coached up on that. But my wife does some of our nutrition consulting stuff. She'll jump in and help out young athletes if they need help. And, and again, for her, she tries to keep it really high level and just like kind of coach them on how to like, here's just your basic macros, you know, how much protein should you be getting?

57:32How many carbs and stay away from this stuff. And I mean, kids sometimes eat so poorly that you don't need to do much to move the needle. I mean, it's crazy. Just have one more protein shake. Not a whole bag of like, you know, cheese bits and we're going to be okay. Yeah.

57:47Sal Di Stefano:Do you have to, I mean, I brought up DK Metcalf because I thought I would think that you'd have kids that are young. They're like, but he, yeah, he skittles all day long. I'm going to look at him. My answer is you're not DK Metcalf. That's my answer, right? It's like, who's the running back that used to eat the Skittles on the sidelines? Oh, that's Marshawn Lynch. You know, and it's like, yeah, but you're not Marshawn Lynch. So you don't get to do that. When you're a walking freak show, then you can do whatever you want to do. I mean, talk about that. How much, because I'm sure this is also a thing too, where parents or even the kid, you know, they have this expectation.

58:21Sal Di Stefano:If I put it in the work and like, what a role genetics play. like you just oh i had a guy i was with the tennessee titans last week and a guy came up to john shaw who's the speed coach there and he you know i was standing in the wing a little bit and he said hey coach so who would you say is the best the best speed coach in you know to go see who is it and i and i tapped him on the shoulder i said it's your mom and dad you know it's like it is genetics play a huge part in it right and there's you know there's a few of us that do a pretty good job of molding that and you know have some good systems in place but yeah genetics play a massive role in a lot of this.

58:54Yeah.

58:54Sal Di Stefano:Do you, uh, do you follow other coaches outside? Like one of my buddies, Paul Fabritz does like all the NBA players. Do you follow any other guys like that? Like who are some of your favorite peers? I do. I mean, I, I, I feel like I'm a little bit of a lifelong learner. I'm in a little bit of a slow season in my life right now. You haven't made some changes in business and stuff like that. So, but it, but I mean, on the daily, I'm looking at what other people are doing and studying it. And, you know, I'm back reading super training again, which is a book that I recommend to every coach. It's, it's a tough read, man.

59:23It is really, really like, you know, intricate and so, but I mean, guys, guys in my kind of neck of the woods, right. Guys like Les Spellman, Tony Holler and Ryan Paul up in, there's a new guy that I've kind of started following a little bit, big Jay Schroeder guy up in Seattle, Cal Dietz. You know, there's just a lot of, a lot of guys out there that have a lot to offer, you know, and I'm not going to go listen to them and then just completely change what I'm doing, but I can always get 1 % better. Yeah. You know? So yeah, I, I'm a, I'm always poking in on what people are doing.

59:57Adam Schafer:What's one of the recent, more recent things you've learned where you're like, Oh, that's interesting. I think I'll try that. Yeah. I think actually it's funny. Cause we were down at outside the box in Florida with the Z tread guys and they brought in it's outside the box. So they bring in these guys that are, you know, a little bit outside thinkers. David Weck was there. If you guys know Dave, speaking outside the box, but you know what? He's got some really good concepts, you know, he's an interesting cat. And so Ryan was a guy that showed up. He had never actually spoke at a clinic before, but he's trained like hundreds of NFL guys and he's a Jay Schroeder guy.

1:00:29And so he brought a lot of that kind of neural training stuff and it, it reinforced some of the things that I had done in the past and gave me some even new fresh ideas on, you know, how to do it. And I spent an hour with him on the phone after the conference, we talked, He kind of walked me through his system and I'm actually going to take a trip up there, hopefully in the fall to see him. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he's really good at what he does. And so, yeah, I mean, I, you know, he's, that's kind of some of the newer stuff that I'm looking at right now is just, you know, how to, how to manipulate and, you know, the neural side of the neuromechanical structural.

1:00:57Sal Di Stefano:Have you, have you dove into David Weck stuff? I mean, I've gone through a lot of his stuff, like in his big thing is like the coiling. Yeah. Coiling. Yeah. Head over foot coiling. You know, he's got his finger stuff that he does and yeah. You know, for some of it with David, like conceptually it makes sense. I think that practically for me, you know, when I'm working with athletes, I kind of wonder sometimes, well, how do I make that happen? Sure. Now, I have used, I just got one of his Pro Pulse vests. Yeah. I don't know if you've seen those, but it's a weight vest. Yeah. And inside the weight, it's got a spring at the bottom.

1:01:29So the weight actually comes down on the spring as you're loading. But then as you unload that spring, you almost get a little momentum off the ground. It's actually really cool. so you can do everything from like plyometrics to sprinting and i actually worked to walk in the other day three and a half miles of listening to myself you know as i'm walking drove my wife oh

1:01:48Sal Di Stefano:that is interesting i mean it almost would give you similar like band assisted to like plyometric type movements exactly yeah that's kind of now you know he invented the bosu ball yep oh he did he did yeah and so this is this propulse vest is kind of his latest vision those foot platforms that are like that's right yeah that's right angled oh and he does those he has those other his little yeah yeah yeah so the concept of the vest is similar to the to the hand weights yeah oh that's cool that's interesting supplements do you recommend supplements to some of your athletes yeah i mean i you know i try to steer clear of it a little bit with the younger athletes right i mean even even up and through high school i just kind of feel like you know i think one thing my dad had a big impact on me and was like don't start supplement until you've maybe maxed out yourself naturally sure and even though supplements can just be an enhancement they're not like you're not taking steroids or something ridiculous like that.

1:02:38You're, but you know, even like creatine, he always had me hold off on that and it was just coming out back then, but he's like, get, let's max you out. And then once you've maxed out, then we'll start supplementation. So I think creatine as much research has been done on it. If an athlete nowadays, isn't taking it, they're foolish. Um, I think it's got so many great positive benefits, you know, fish oils, um, you know, just, just some of the basics, minerals and stuff. I, I don't necessarily promote like a brand or you know big into supplements i just don't like people to have to i see your element box over here my wife deals that stuff like a like a crack dealer and we love

1:03:12Sal Di Stefano:that for you know the the salt and potassium stuff so that's awesome have you with the pro athletes i would think that you're getting a lot of people probably asking you about peptides and stuff like that is that a common thing that you got to like again yeah i don't get hit with it a lot oh really I don't just because like, especially with the NFL guys, there's, there's so many that are on the banned substance list that it's kind of a non-option. It used to be a couple of years ago, right? It was just a few years ago. They took BPC and put it on the list. Cause I mean, most of our athletes were taking that, you know, by the, as much as they get their hands on.

1:03:44Yeah. But now that's banned. And I think just about, just about all of them are on the water list now. Oh, they are all in the water. I didn't know that.

1:03:51Adam Schafer:What's interesting is I don't know how they would test for them, but right. Exactly. Well, that's the thing. Even with BPC, it's got like a two hour shelf life or something. So I don't know how you'd get caught, but plus your body makes it naturally.

1:04:00Sal Di Stefano:So how do you know it's there? Oh, interesting. Okay. I didn't know that. I didn't know it was on the wall. Did you know it was on the wall? Oh yeah. All of them are. Oh, you did? Oh dude, I didn't know that. I didn't know it was on one. Yeah. There isn't a single one that's on the wall.

1:04:13Adam Schafer:Very, very cool. Well, that's great. So, so all these years, uh, working with athletes, uh, do you like it as much as you did in the beginning? More or less? I do, man. I really do. Like I, you know, I, maybe I don't miss being on the floor eight to 10 hours a day and like, you know, grinding. But I still look forward to, you know, working with an athlete, putting a program together, solving the problem, right? Cause there's, especially I think now the differences, it used to just be right. A workout for all these kids and it's pretty much going to move, you know, it's going to work for all of them.

1:04:39And now it's a much different, you know, problem solving formula of, you know, Hey, this athlete's got this knee issue coming out of the season. So how are we going to mitigate that and get him back? And then we'll start our speed work. And, you know, there's a lot more planning that goes in. I have my NHL guy reach out to me last week. Like, Hey, I, I got a, you know, torn or a strained MCL. Like I need to get stronger here. And here's what they recommend. What do you have for me? So now I get to go in the lab and kind of figure out what we're going to do with him. So I still do love it. I mean, I, right now is a little bit of a weird time for me.

1:05:09Cause I'm not actively training. I don't have an active gym that I'm necessarily involved with outside of the ETS, you know, stuff that I'm doing. And so it's kind of given me time to, you know, put some ideas in place. I'm working on an ebook that we'll put out this summer on some training stuff. And so some digital products and assets that I've never really had time to do.

1:05:27Adam Schafer:So, yeah, I still love it for someone who's a personal trainer listening right now and they want to get into your field. Yeah. What what what direction should they go? It's funny. I had this phone call a month ago and I would say one of two things. Like if you if you have a real passion for it, you got to dive all the way in. And I don't think that personal trainers that come out of that world that dabble in sports performance are ever going to have a lot of success. They might have enough knowledge to be dangerous, but you got to go all in. And so my advice would be, if you want to do that, go all in.

1:06:00And by all in, it might mean an unpaid internship. It might mean taking a course with, you know, us or Altus or, you know, whoever to to really dive all the way deep because it's just they're two different worlds. Totally. They really are.

1:06:12Sal Di Stefano:There's a huge difference between trying to help your average mom do some athletic things versus training an athlete. And I think a personal trainer who has some sort of sports performance background can help the average mom be a little more athletic with that. But you ain't taking no athlete to another level. That's a whole other game. I mean, I know sports performance coaches that have been doing it for 10, 15 years and never really got their break to work with some big name or pro athlete. right it just takes a lot of time to be really good at what you're doing and then have somebody take a chance on you yeah before you actually reach that and so just to be like i'm gonna dabble like i'm gonna keep being a personal trainer and there's some damn good personal trainers don't get me wrong i'm gonna hire one of you guys to help me get big and muscly but uh right yeah i think i think you got to be you know to your point you got to be all in yeah yeah i can see that and

1:07:02Adam Schafer:it's also one of the harder um fields or segments of our of our space to build a career yep you're Being a personal trainer, building your career is tough. Now you're going to go into specialized athletes. It's very difficult. And that's what I loved. That was one of the draws with ETS is, honestly, it's created opportunity for the young, aspiring sports performance coach that is going to make$40 ,000 for the rest of their life at some college, unless you get a break here and there, but that's pretty small. And it gives them an opportunity. I mean, they start with a pretty good little salary, and they can make upwards of six figures if they hustle.

1:07:37And that's an anomaly in our industry. So they have a great setup to help out some of those younger coaches that want to do it as a career. That's very cool. Well, Brian, this has been great, man. Awesome. So good. It's good to have you back on, my friend.

1:07:50Adam Schafer:It's great to have a really good coach on our show talking to athletes and trainers, so I appreciate you coming on. You guys are always a blast, man.

1:07:58Sal Di Stefano:Can't wait to take my paste. That's right. I'm trying to get you all pasted up. So it improves blood flow.

1:08:04Adam Schafer:What areas can you rub that on? We'll talk about that off here. Next podcast. appreciate you bro thank you thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

1:08:53The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump.