2893: The 5 Best Forms of Cardio Ranked From Worst to Best (The Results Will Surprise You)

10:08Adam Schafer:that's right next up on the list uh second worst is uh high intensity interval training again people get all up in arms so first let me describe it high intensity interval training can be done in a number of different ways, but I'll use one example on a stationary bike. Okay. Just very basic. You cruise and then you sprint for, let's say 20 seconds, as hard as you can. Then you cruise and slow down till your heart rate comes down and then you attempt it again. So you do sets of high intensity application. Now you could do this with weights. You could do this with different forms of cardio. You could do this with running.

10:43Adam Schafer:You could do this with swimming, but essentially that's the protocol. Now, here's what the data shows. The data shows it builds great stamina. It builds great athleticism. It burns more body fat in shorter periods of time. And so you're constantly getting it sold as to why this is such a great form of cardio. In fact, data specialists, these are people that really understand data, but don't have lots of experience training, regular people will constantly consistently rank HIIT cardio as the top because the data shows it's amazing. Now here's the real world. Okay. If you ask me of all the clients I trained over the 20 plus years that I trained clients, how many of them, uh, hit cardio was appropriate for, I'll tell you maybe 10 % handful, maybe 10 % of the most.

11:28Adam Schafer:It's just not appropriate for most people because most people are managing the amount of stress that their body can, can handle. And I'd rather take that stress and apply it towards something like strength training than hit cardio.

11:40Justin Andrews:There's a lot of prerequisites involved with kind of building them up to that ability. Like at least just like, you know, having the joint stability is a huge one that I think people overlook all those types of things. Like we've got to build up the strength to get everything to perform at an optimal level before we crank the notch to add more intensity and add that kind of acceleration.

12:02Sal Di Stefano:Well, what percentage of your clients that you guys trained, were you not also managing some sort of chronic pain or imbalances to? Yeah, come on. Everybody. Almost every client. Everybody. You are, along with their fat loss goal or their building muscle goal or their longevity goal, you are also managing chronic low back pain, knee issues, a post-surgery situation, an imbalance from left to right somewhere. And so if that's the case, if I'm working on that along with their primary fat loss or whatever goals, and HIIT is just not a go-to tool to this person. There's other things, which, by the way, it's not bad.

12:44Sal Di Stefano:And I utilize it, and it's been utilized and can be good based off of the data. But when you go to the next three that we have going on, they're just better. They're better. And they're also more realistic to maintain long-term.

12:57Adam Schafer:That's right, 100%. Now, if you're fit and healthy and you move well, or you're an athlete and it's programmed properly, HIIT cardio is amazing. Yep. But most people don't fall into that category. Most people fall in the category, I'm trying to get fit. I'm trying to be consistent. I have lots of other stress to deal with. And so adding HIIT cardio just becomes inappropriate. Next up is steady state. This is the traditional form of cardio. You get an elliptical and you go for 30 minutes. It doesn't require a lot of skill. It is good for health. It's a healthy form of cardio. It's not going to give you tons of endurance benefits.

13:35Adam Schafer:It's not going to give you tons of calorie burning benefits. But it is appropriate form of cardio for most people. Most people could do this form of cardio and not suffer from injuries or overuse issues. Now, this can be abused. people tend to abuse steady state cardio by saying this is the way i'm going to work out to lose fat uh but we've talked ad nauseum on the podcast about how strength training is a is a

13:55Sal Di Stefano:better way to do that yeah i mean and what's your favorite way of study i you know justin teases my elliptical i like elliptical i can't help it if you know what it is it's a low it's a low risk

14:07Adam Schafer:it's a low risk low injury uh upright i mean you're gliding yeah yeah yeah moving those shoulders I like the shoulders. I like how they put the arm things like it makes a difference. You know what I mean? All right. Next up, this is close to the best, second best, walking. Walking, now I know it's not, again, people are going to be up in arms. Walking is cardio. Yeah, yeah. You're not going to get tons of endurance walking. Okay, I know that. But walking is so appropriate for everybody. Everybody can still walk without hurting themselves. Walking is interesting because it's simultaneously activity, which more activity is generally good.

14:48Adam Schafer:So if you look at the data, moving more is generally better unless it gets too extreme. But it's also simultaneously a recovery or recuperating or rejuvenating form of activity. In other words, I could take a client where we're managing stress and strength training once or twice a week is like we're teetering it because you also got kids, you also got a job, your diet isn't great, your sleep is a little off. I can almost always add walking and it not tip them over. That's right. In some cases, it actually reduces stress. Where running and hit could tip that person.

15:18Sal Di Stefano:Always. That's right. That's right. Someone who's teetering right on there, their stress bucket is already really full. Pushing them into hit or running tips them over or overflows that bucket. Walking actually takes away from that bucket.

15:33Adam Schafer:It often does. It's also an easy form of exercise to implement into your everyday life. you don't need to change into workout clothes you don't need to go to the gym yeah you can stay in typically what you're wearing unless you're wearing heels or something like that and you can be like i'm gonna go for a 10-minute walk in fact i'm gonna do a 10-minute walk uh after breakfast lunch and dinner boom 30 minutes well you can build it into your lifestyle that's right

15:54Sal Di Stefano:which now makes it something that people can maintain forever that's right so all of a sudden you you amazing i can't tell you how many clients that this was the tool that we used and what happens after you've helped them build habits around this, they now become the person who just gets up a half hour earlier before work and they do a stroll. Or they become the person who every time they eat, they just take 10 minutes and take a walk. Or every night right before bed. It's like these are things, like you said, it doesn't require them changing. They don't have to go to a gym. You're not getting all sweaty.

16:25Sal Di Stefano:It's not super intense. It's like the barrier to entry is very easy for people and manageable and maintainable for a very long time. And so this becomes one of the best.

16:35Adam Schafer:And for anybody scoffing right now, like I did as an early trainer, when people told me I walked, I thought, oh God, that's not exercise. The data is clear. Walking has amazing longevity benefits.

16:45Justin Andrews:Yeah.

16:46Adam Schafer:You know, you walk up to eight to 10 ,000 steps a day. This is where you get kind of the peak of the all cause mortality drops. You know, insulin sensitivity improves. Digestion improves. There's almost, it's such a low injury rate. It's just a wonderful form of activity.

17:01Sal Di Stefano:You know, I have examples in my own family. It's really interesting for me now to be at the age that I'm at. This puts my, you know, aunts and uncles now in their 70s, you know, 70s and 80s and stuff like that, approaching that age. And obviously, I'm 45 years old, so I've seen them my whole life. And then I've seen them when they were my age or younger, and now I've seen them into advanced age. and my two that are probably the healthiest, they don't work out. They never have worked out. They've never been workout people, but they are major walkers. They love to go to San Francisco and walk the city.

17:41Sal Di Stefano:Every day, every week is centered around and just these long, nice strolls to the two of them together. And they're modest about the way they eat, but they don't track anything. They're not into dieting or that. They don't drink. They don't smoke. And they walk. And I tell you, they look, move, and act 20 years younger than the other side of my family. And the other side of my family has attempted exercise and done dieting and done stuff like that and just on and off the wagon and abuse themselves. And it's one extreme to the other extreme type of deal. And I look at the difference of it's just been really interesting to watch being in this profession as long as I have scoffing at something like walking in my early years as a personal trainer and then seeing just how beneficial it can be when it truly is a part of your lifestyle consistently and how much it can counter all the other things.

18:39Sal Di Stefano:Like, again, they're not big exercise. They don't go out and lift weights like, you know, I'd love to see them do that. I can't imagine if they actually strength train once or twice a week in addition to that. I mean, how good they would probably be. But the fact that they look and move 20 years younger than their peers on the other side of my family is wild to see the difference. That's awesome.

19:00Adam Schafer:And last, or should I say the best form of cardio is playing. Now, this is a broad category. And this covers playing with your kids, throwing a Frisbee, going on a hike, going on a swim, jet skiing, swim, you know, just things you enjoy doing that require you to move. This is the best. Of course, be appropriate with it. Don't go play, you know, tackle football with your buddies after you haven't played for 10 years or whatever. But this is fun. It's enjoyable. It builds community. and in my experience in my experience the healthiest people that i've ever known who were older played they did things they like to cycle because they didn't do it to go work out they loved it they loved to go skiing or surfing because it's not work it's not it's fun i think

19:51Justin Andrews:that's the the one of the biggest barriers with even working out or doing cardio in general is the fact that like it just sounds like a task like i gotta go do this thing you know like playing and and being involved in something that's like super active but you really enjoy it you get lost in it and it just time passes and it's like wow i moved so much you don't even account for that

20:14Sal Di Stefano:type of movement i don't even know if i would have thought or had the awareness to add this to the list uh until becoming a father i think becoming a father has changed my outlook more uh on this

20:25Adam Schafer:than ever i think that yeah go run after a four-year-old yeah and i and and park and i don't

20:31Sal Di Stefano:i definitely don't do it thinking i need to do cardio and that's why yesterday i don't know if you even saw the video i posted on our story uh we just got max a big wheel and so he found a big wheel yeah yeah yeah so he's got a big wheel so sick yeah they're cool now they're even better

20:46Adam Schafer:now they're like so much nicer you know we had a plastic wheel yes yeah he has like a good front

20:50Sal Di Stefano:rubber wheel but back to oh wow plastic yeah so it grips more for going forward yeah yeah so his his is uh if you look at my video on my story uh yesterday oh that's so awesome you can actually see the one that i got no i got a better one that doug it's cool it's really cool um anyways uh but i mean we're getting him to go fast running and chasing him and stuff like that it's just i i think that of course i'm i'm aware that i'm creating movement and activity and burning calories and all those things, but just the connection with your kid. And I see a lot of dads my age that have kids that just, you're tired.

21:29Sal Di Stefano:You had a long day at work and you don't want to move and you sit on the couch or you sit on your phone. And it's like, not only is that not good for you health-wise and activity-wise, it just can't be that great for you relationship-wise with your kid. And so when I think of talking to people that are our age, that you're encouraging play it's like that's the direction i encourage and then oh by the way it'll keep you healthier and fitter but it's like do it for your kid do it for them to stay connected i had a client years

21:58Adam Schafer:ago uh she's probably i would say in her mid-60s i was a pretty early trainer and at that time i was uh i wasn't the greatest trainer or should i say i wasn't the most aware or smartest trainer i considered workouts to be workouts everything else was not workouts and i remember talking to where she hired me because she'd never done strength training before. She got great benefits from strength training. But I remember talking to her and being like, hey, what do you do for exercise? She's like, I dance. I'm like, what do you mean you dance? She used to love salsa dancing and dancing with her partner.

22:30Adam Schafer:And she would do this several times a week. And I got to tell you, man, for someone who didn't quote unquote work out, she was fit. She was fit. And she responded really well to strength training because she didn't have, like you take the typical 65-year-old who doesn't dance or play or whatever. there's all kinds of imbalances and movement. Not to say I didn't have to correct some things with her, but it was a different, it was different altogether. And it was because she was just, she loved to dance. And it was just the fun thing that she did. And so that's the category of playing. I think that's the best.

22:59Sal Di Stefano:Have you ever seen Katrina's dad before? No. Oh yeah. So he's in his late, he's in his late seventies and salsa dances four nights of the week. Yeah, dude. Drinks, smokes, eats. but i'm telling you like he you would think he you would think i mean he dates people that are half his age because he is like this i mean he is super and he like salsa dances like he doesn't like kinda he like he's like you know what he's very serious about it and it's like hours justin

23:30Adam Schafer:made a good point when you do something when you're playing and you love it you lose track

23:33Sal Di Stefano:of time oh intensity hours yeah hours hours and into it and just and it's crazy how considering he is not a healthy person, how actually fit and healthy it's kind of kept him. It's been probably the thing that has kept him going as well as it's kept him because of that. That's awesome.

23:50Adam Schafer:Well, I'll tell you why that one came up on the list because I had, yesterday I went back to jiu-jitsu. So it was my first day back. Oh, that was yesterday. It was last night. Oh, shit. So this was my first time back and I think, I want to say, it's almost 20 years. So the last big tournament I did, I think it was 2006, and then I really didn't do much after. So it's got to be at least 18 to 20 years that I've done any kind of jujitsu or grappling. So I went back yesterday over here, San Jose, shout out to Claudio Francis school. Great, great place. And boy, let me just explain what it felt like.

24:25Adam Schafer:Okay. I knew what I wanted to do. Like I knew what my body, I knew what I wanted my body to do and what it should feel like. Big disconnect between what my body would actually do. it was like it just wasn't obeying it was very strange was it a class you were doing it was a class yeah yeah i did a nogi class and uh i only i i pretty much only went against my my brother-in-law who's he's a brown belt now okay and so and we went easy you didn't know somebody there at least yeah dude and we went easy and uh my ego now my age i'm like way less so even if i went against other people i'm okay with like totally going easy and you know we did the warm-ups which includes like mat work.

25:07Adam Schafer:And I'll tell you what, I will say this, I move better than I thought I would.

25:10Justin Andrews:Okay. So I'm actually happy,

25:13Adam Schafer:but also when I'm in there rolling and grappling and it's starting to come back to me like what it should feel like and how I should move. And then the way my body's moving is not like I expect it to. Well, you have a couple of things

25:25Sal Di Stefano:working against you in that too. Not just the fact that you've been out of for what? How many years? Almost 20. So almost 20 years you've been out of it, but you're also 30 pounds difference or probably about 25 to 30 pounds yeah of more muscle so there's i mean this is like me playing basketball this is why i finally had to just like hang it up and be like i can't do this unless i'm willing to commit to going all the way back down and weight and putting in all the work to like because like my brain goes like i can move like this like it's like and i kept hurting myself because i'm like i can't i can't move my my new body the way I used to move my 187-pound body.

26:00Sal Di Stefano:You know, it's like so different. So it's going to be interesting to listen to your process through that because that was a tough pill for me to swallow was like accepting that I probably need to go down quite a bit of weight to still, if I wanted to move like I used to move. Yeah. Or accepting you're never going to move like that again. No, no, no, I'm fine.

26:18Adam Schafer:No, I'm committed. I'm committed to doing it. It's the healthiest I ever was with fitness because it took my focus off of trying to be jacked and trying to build all the time. Weight training could also be quote-unquote playing for me, but there's a connection to it that moves it away from that and turns it into obsession.

26:36Justin Andrews:Yeah, I'm interested in it too because there has to be – there's a flow to it, right? Totally. So it's a totally different shift in mindset as opposed to when you're working out and how you're navigating through all that again and being loose when you need to be loose and then coming in tight. Totally.

26:54Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. I would think there's a bit of flow for you, though, in working out, though, too.

26:58Adam Schafer:There is, but what he's saying is jiu-jitsu is interesting. They call it combat sports for nerds because it's very cerebral and it's very not natural. What I mean by that is any idiot could throw a punch. Not saying they could throw a good punch, but you get a big dude who throws a haymaker and he connects, you're going to sleep. There's no accidental submission or position on the ground. It's like learning how to swim. So you go on the ground, if you've never grappled, you're a baby. And I mean that seriously. For real. There's a great video of Gordon, I think is his last name. I can't remember his first name.

27:37Adam Schafer:He's one of the world's best jiu-jitsu. What's his name, Dylan? Ryan Gordon. One of the best jiu-jitsu fighters of all time. Did we have him on the show a long time ago? No, we didn't. Who do we have on the show? No, Gary Tonin. Oh, that's who we have. Gary Tonin. So Gordon is one of the world's best, if not the world's best, grappler, some people would say. I think he weighs like 210, kind of a jacked jujitsu guy, but there's a video of him rolling with Thor. What's his last name? Hap Thor?

28:04Justin Andrews:Oh, Hap Thor?

28:05Adam Schafer:Yeah. How big is Hap Thor? Can you look up his size?

28:08Justin Andrews:He's like 6 '8", right?

28:09Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, and like 300 pounds. He's huge. No, more than that, dude. Yeah, he's 300 plus.

28:14Adam Schafer:He's a mutant. He's like the biggest human being. 6 '9". Oh, 6 '9". 450 pounds. And he's a muscular 450. He's a giant, exceptionally strong human being. And there's a video of him rolling with Gordon. And so he outweighs Gordon by twice as much. He's easily eight times stronger than Gordon. And you can see how because of the technique and because, you know, Hapthor doesn't know. He's never done it. He can just roll him up. He pulls him on his back. And you can tell Hapthor's like lost.

28:49Justin Andrews:He's like, the physics don't even make sense. He's lost.

28:51Adam Schafer:And it's like, and again, Gordon is the best in the world. So if you're like a regular, you know, jujitsu guy. You could still get killed by that guy. Be careful. Don't go up to Habthor and be like, I can beat you up. But to see that is like, that's what jujitsu is all about.

29:04Sal Di Stefano:That's funny you just brought that up. I actually had a, I totally forgot I wanted to ask you guys. I mean, this is a good time to ask you because we're talking about weight classes and this and that. What level, and it was on my mind too because the UFC fighters happen, okay? so what level does like the the the world-class fighter uh weight class matter and not matter in other words like okay can sal uh does sal feel confident that even if you're a pro boxer but you're a flyweight you're not a champion you're just you're just a flyweight boxer i could i could i could hang with you oh i see right because you're 225 pound guy right and this guy's 100 and 135 pounds right so at what weight class does it like all of a sudden it does it like it doesn't matter

29:52Adam Schafer:so i'll tell you this if we're talking about world-class fighter yeah because it's okay we're

29:56Sal Di Stefano:not talking about like the typical gym no no not world because that's you're right world-class you could be a flyweight and you could did you guys see because grappling is a different ballgame

30:04Adam Schafer:grappling is not uh uh boxing or or because boxing size makes more of a difference than grappling size always makes a difference but like there's a video of larry wheels larry wheels is grappling against a 150-pound super small dude. Oh, did he do that? And he gets submitted a bunch of times. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And Larry Wheels is like, he's really humbled and pissed off about it. And Larry Wheels is very strong. Very strong. He squats 900 pounds. He's very, very strong.

30:30Justin Andrews:Yeah, insane.

30:31Adam Schafer:So yeah, jiu-jitsu is like that. And they have tournaments. It's the only full contact, quote-unquote, fighting sport where they have unlimited categories in tournaments. So they have weight classes and then they have what's called open class. Yeah. It doesn't matter what. size you are you can compete and it's not the biggest guy that wins often oftentimes it's like 180 pound guy or 160 pound guy yeah marcelo garcia used to win that you can make doug look at marcelo garcia and how much his weight was and he was just just crushing people back in the day

31:03Justin Andrews:i feel like that's probably the main martial art i would say you know weight class is like

31:08Adam Schafer:less yeah yeah 180 to 185 pounds and that guy right there would win unlimited all the time against 250 pound dudes, 260 pound dudes. Yeah, that's wild. And he would submit them. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, that's wild. But for me, it's like, again, it's like the, I'm going back for sure. I'm going to do it. I did no gi last night, which is, I guess, easier if you're stronger. Going back to gi, gi, they'll tie you up and then you're just, like you're sitting there like a dumbass butt. I'm going to start doing both. I'm going to go super easy and I'm going to let the muscle fall off my body.

31:42Justin Andrews:Yeah, I'm excited for you.

31:43Sal Di Stefano:If that's the direction it's going to go, I'm going to let it go. How many days a week?

31:46Adam Schafer:What I'm probably going to start with is two days a week of jujitsu, and I'm only going to lift one day a week. Oh, wow. Well, yeah, dude, you can't. Listen. No, I know. You ain't going to do. It's conflicting. Bro, you're wrestling hard with grown men. You ain't going to lift. How was it super fatiguing for you last night? Or did you not? Because we went kind of easy, it wasn't like crazy fatigue. Actually, I feel not bad about my condition. I was expecting much worse. Yeah, yeah. But we weren't going like super. It was funny too.

32:18Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, but still, you even know too, like when you're so deconditioned from like how minimal it takes to like feel like exhausted.

32:26Justin Andrews:Yeah, if you're going to assess yourself in terms of like mobility practices, you should probably now focus on. I will. What does that look like?

32:35Adam Schafer:So what I need first is just general flexibility first. So I need flexibility. My hips will get flexible pretty quickly. my quads are really tight. I need to work on flexibility there and I need to work on rotational flexibility. Cause that's what I could feel today. I could feel that when I would twist, like I can tell like my neck and my thoracic. Yeah. That's what I noticed.

32:55Justin Andrews:The little stint that I tried it out. It was like, Oh my God, like so much hip rotation and hip emphasis. I had to work on.

33:03Adam Schafer:Yeah. It's, it's going to be fun, dude. And if the, I'm probably, my body weight's probably going to go down to, I don't know, probably two or five to 10. I'd say probably, I'm probably at least 10 to 15 pounds of muscle. what I expect, but whatever happens, happens. Okay. Well, that's inspiring me.

33:17Justin Andrews:I'm going to start running, like sprinting. Okay. So, well, my son. You're going to have to bodybuild, Adam. Remember the combined weight of us?

33:26Adam Schafer:Teaching him. Yeah, you guys can't lose all that weight, dog. You're going to take the muscle, bro.

33:31Justin Andrews:I'm heavy right now, too, so we'll see how that goes. Yeah, dude. That's exciting.

33:37Adam Schafer:I tell you what, I was going against, so my brother-in-law, I was going against him the whole time. and back when I used to train 20 years ago or whatever, you know, I used to kick his butt, right? I used to submit him all the time or whatever. Now, this time, he was very kind to me because he's a brown belt now and he was very kind to me. And afterwards, I texted him. I'm like, bro, thanks for not giving me payback. Cranking on me. Yeah, thanks for no payback. Well, I imagine. He wants me to go back, that's why. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wants you to get more on his level probably

34:05Sal Di Stefano:so it's competitive again where he probably knows right now it's like it's not even fair. yeah yeah you can't brag about it yet we're back in the days you guys were probably closer

34:13Adam Schafer:at level right well no i was really i was decent i'm okay when i say decent i mean like club level good i wasn't like state level or like you will so because let me tell you guys would come in this is the greatest experience ever for an athlete you guys have all experienced this i only experienced in jujitsu i'll never forget dude we had these guys come in from brazil they were all like world class. So they were like world, world class. And I'll never, I was at this point, I was like the peak of my jujitsu career and I could hang with black belts. I was like pretty good. And this dude, bro, he tapped me out so easily, like so easily.

34:51Adam Schafer:It was, it was crazy. Like at one point I'm laughing and he's laughing with me and I'm like, is this like, are you just messing with me? He's like, yeah, yeah, I'm messing with you. I already know what you're going to do. This sucks, bro. This sucks so bad. I'm just toying with you. It also makes you feel real confident, though. I'll tell you this. When you do a lot of combat sports, you have a confidence when you walk around in the real world because you know how to fight.

35:14Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, those seem to be some of the most, the toughest dudes tend to be the most humble and less likely to fight. Yeah. There's no reason to. Totally. Yeah, yeah.

35:23Adam Schafer:I got to tell you this, though. After training really hard, this was at night, so I don't know if you guys ever experienced this, but this is common, right? You work out real hard, especially in a way that -

35:32Sal Di Stefano:Adrenaline going like crazy. Hard to go to sleep. Yeah.

35:34Adam Schafer:So I took Troscription's Calm.

35:37Sal Di Stefano:Oh, yeah.

35:39Adam Schafer:Wow. So good. It worked so well, dude. I slept fine. They make good products. Did you do just the Calm? I did just the Calm. I didn't go hard with the sleep stuff. Because that'll knock me that loud.

35:49Sal Di Stefano:Because, yeah, I'll do the Calm with the sleep stuff, and you, I'll put me in a coma.

35:52Adam Schafer:No, I do the Calm. So Calm, you can take during the day, too. And the ingredients in Calm are so, I mean, they're backed by data, and you can feel it. Like if you take Calm, give it about 30 minutes, and you'll feel your body. We do that about like one to two hours before sleep.

36:11Justin Andrews:That's what I did. Yeah.

36:11Adam Schafer:Yeah, I took it when I came home, showered, did whatever, and then I just kind of started feeling like that.

36:15Sal Di Stefano:It reminds me of like a similar feeling I get from like when I take my magnesium or when I take chamomile. It has this kind of like just chill effect. It's not like a – but then you stack that with the sleep. Oh, well, you're going night-night if you do that. And then it's like 30 minutes to 45 minutes later.

36:32Adam Schafer:No, if you do those two, don't go drive a car because it puts you out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Operate heavy machinery. Yeah, that's the sleep one. Anyway, I got to tell you about this new certification they have in California. What are you laughing? What is it? Justin knows, obviously. It's a new certification. It's a gay certification. Let's talk about this. A gay certification? It's a gay certification, dude. Oh, wow. Okay, wait. Hold on. Come on. Stop it.

36:51Justin Andrews:Give me the backstory of how this came to be, and then we got to break this down.

36:55Adam Schafer:So California, of course it's in California, is pressuring public utility companies to issue$633 million in contracts to LGBT-owned businesses. However, the must-pass gay certification program. Stop it, dude. This is real? Yes, dude. Please tell me. Tell me you Googled what the certification was. Yeah, I did. You did? Come on. So Doug can look it up too because we can get it.

37:25Justin Andrews:we make this a challenge one of us has to go through this so listen

37:28Sal Di Stefano:Doug is for sure going to do this if we save money so first how much money do we save it really depends on what you have to do to prove

37:35Adam Schafer:they have to watch you throw baseball I'm sorry

37:39Sal Di Stefano:I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry you have to pick your top five favorite movies your favorite musicals outfit yeah yeah you have an outfit quiz you know what I'm saying

37:54Adam Schafer:yes Yeah, dude, no, there's actual, so obviously if you're married, so if you're same-sex married, that qualifies, obviously. Okay. Then you can send them like social media profile evidence. So I don't know. Are you serious? I don't know what that looks like. What does that even mean? Here I am making out with a dude. I don't know what's in there, bro, but there's that. Then there's another one. I guess you could have, what does that say? Submit. How much do we save, Doug?

38:26Justin Andrews:I do not know. It's getting contracts. I don't think you're saving anything.

38:30Sal Di Stefano:Because Doug is the only person that's not married. So you might have to take one for the team here. All righty.

38:37Adam Schafer:Yeah. And then I think another one is you could have people write letters for you. Which, listen, I don't know any dude who doesn't have friends that would be like, for sure, I'll write letters to your gay dude. He's gay. He's super gay, bro. He's so gay. You have no idea. You guys don't even know. those are the three that i looked up and then i saw that is the business has to be at least 51 percent lgbt owned what does that mean by the way if you have a two partners this is not going to be abused at all that means two of us have to be yeah dude oh there you're inside their gay certification program like how do you qualify doug look it up pictures pictures of scissoring oh my gosh what are we talking about here and you ever watch that what baseball game was there's these two baseball players, they're going for the ball and they just slide and scissor each other like super hard.

39:28Adam Schafer:I'm sure they made memes of that. Oh, there were. Yeah, one of the memes was like - They could never plan that again. That was impossible. I saw a meme and it's like, after this, they went out and bought a Subaru together. Does it say, Doug? I'm trying to find this detail. Ownership. At least, okay, at least 51 % of the business must be owned by one or more. How does that work 51 %? So if you have two partners - That's right, yeah.

39:54Justin Andrews:So one has to have at least 51%.

39:56Sal Di Stefano:Doug has to be full gay.

39:57Adam Schafer:Justin has to be - So here's the deal.

39:58Justin Andrews:I get 51 % of the company now, right?

40:02Adam Schafer:I did a gay thing once. Does that give me the 1 %? Yeah. So - What if you're like into furry stuff? So there's a declaration of sexual identity, gender identity, supporting documents, letters from an organization, or affidavits from personal or professional. Like this is - So it's kind of like honor system, a lot of it. This is not going to get abused at all. Yeah, not at all. And this is basically money, right? They're just getting money for their business?

40:30Justin Andrews:So my understanding is that they will get contracts, utility contracts in California. So, I mean, your company will get paid, obviously. You'll get a contract that somebody else won't get. Because you're gay.

40:43Sal Di Stefano:So it's not a discount on PG &E or something? No, no.

40:46Adam Schafer:It's really getting contracts. If they're required, like as a certain percentage of the contracts we put out, this many has to be in this program that have to be LGBT. Got it. Which to me, guys, everybody, this is plainly discriminatory. This is absurd. It's plainly discriminatory. It makes no sense. To give somebody something simply because of skin color or sexual orientation or gender is plainly discriminatory. Now, I know what they're trying to do. They're trying to correct, but they're, you know, they're trying to, they're trying to overcorrect or say, oh, well, these people don't get it type of deal.

41:22Justin Andrews:No. But, you know.

41:24Adam Schafer:It creates more divide. I got to say this, you guys. This is how, let me tell you, let me explain to everybody how business works. You know what business cares about? Money. Profit. Money. Mm-hmm. Like, if you, if you're doing a good job and you sell a good product, you got a good business or whatever, 99 % of people will do business with you because you do good business.

41:41Sal Di Stefano:Now, is this, is this like a, on the ballot or is this passed?

41:45Adam Schafer:No, they're actually pressuring them to do this.

41:47Sal Di Stefano:So this is like official. This isn't like one. Because sometimes you get like headlines like this, and it's just all clickbait, alarmist stuff. But this is like really going down. Yeah.

41:56Adam Schafer:The lawmakers are pressuring them. And this was on Polymarket, which is like a.

42:02Sal Di Stefano:Because it's already got a certification number. The general order certification 156. It's already got a. I mean, it looks pretty legit. I mean. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

42:12Adam Schafer:I still want to make a challenge out of this, you guys. but you know there's also potentially people that could take advantage of this yeah you think because like how do you i mean i don't know yeah yeah hey write me a letter dude i mean i need some money for a lot of ai images i mean if we were in the electrical contract

42:30Sal Di Stefano:business i'd definitely have you guys do it why would you have why don't you do it well because that's not my part of the business plus you'd be better i'm ceo you're marketing

42:38Adam Schafer:you'd be better i just send a picture of you sitting on the couch you know sometimes you on the couch. Yeah. You already does that? Fix your toenails, dude. You know exactly what I'm talking about. We're recovering, dude. Yeah. You're exactly what I'm talking about. Where you get all relaxed. It's comfortable, though. It's comfortable. You sit kind of seductively a little bit. Yeah, dude, like that. Like, what are you doing, bro? That's perfect. Stop it. That's perfect. That's too far. Make a whole Instagram account with that, and then we're covered. Anyway. All right. All right. All right. Enough of that.

43:04Adam Schafer:I'm going to change subjects. So you guys know that there's a connection between diabetes and dementia? uh yeah so there's a new this this just came out in science news and they listed uh some of the the the ways that they're connected um so diabetes itself increases your risk of dementia by 60 percent uh and and this probably has to do with uh just your brain's inability uh to utilize uh energy sugar so the brain is two percent of your body weight but it uses 20 % of your body's energy. And so the brain cells lose their ability to use glucose properly. And that's very, and this is why, one of the reasons why people with dementia or Alzheimer's often have improvements in symptoms when they go on a ketogenic diet is because you're taking them away from using, um, you know, sugar and using ketones because their brains, uh, have lost the ability to, to an extent to process that.

44:05Adam Schafer:So by the way, this is also why one of the best forms of exercise for, to prevent dementia and Alzheimer's is strength training. And the data

44:13Sal Di Stefano:is clear on this. Well, that's because of the muscle building and the storage, right? That's right. Because of insulin sensitivity. Right. Because it becomes a great storage vessel for carbohydrates.

44:22Adam Schafer:And muscles are very insulin sensitive. It's actually the most effective way to improve insulin sensitivity is to build some muscle. It makes a huge difference.

44:32Justin Andrews:Yeah. I mean, our buddy Max Lugavere, right, in his book, like covered a lot of that eating strategies, obviously with all that but yeah for avoiding dementia i mean this is something i've been passionate about my grandma had like dementia real bad really yeah and so it's like kind of in the in the family and i'm very conscious of it always trying to stress better habits you know with my mom because she's starting to kind of you know there's there's signs of that potentially being there so you know to strength train and then to eat you know make these better decisions so So she utilizes glucose a lot better.

45:06Justin Andrews:Oh, gosh. That's a tough one.

45:07Sal Di Stefano:Doug, you just pulled up Organifi's Parasite Cleanse. I didn't realize that I wasn't doing the full protocol here. What were you doing? I was just taking it in the morning time, the pills. But I guess they have a full-on stack that goes with it. I wasn't aware of that. I just thought I was doing the right thing.

45:25Justin Andrews:Well, I did too, and I think I made a mistake as well. Oh, okay. So there's very specific instructions on how to use this.

45:30Adam Schafer:So days one through three and then four through seven.

45:33Justin Andrews:Right, correct.

45:34Adam Schafer:So one through three, what are you doing?

45:35Justin Andrews:So there's two different products. There's a capsule and there's some liquid you take. And so on day one through three, you're taking one capsule in the morning on an empty stomach with four milliliters of the liquid. And then you're doing the exact same thing before bed. Days four through seven, you're doing two of those capsules in the morning with eight milliliters of the liquid. And then you're doing exactly the same thing before bed. Oh, wow. So I've been doing two and eight milliliters twice a day, and I didn't realize that. So the bottle's not super clear, just so everybody knows. You should look at these instructions.

46:12Justin Andrews:You can find it on the website.

46:13Sal Di Stefano:Is it on the Organifi website?

46:14Justin Andrews:It's on the Organifi website, yes.

46:16Sal Di Stefano:Now, how long have you been using it?

46:18Justin Andrews:Two days. I just started. You haven't noticed anything? Not as of yet.

46:21Adam Schafer:So you guys know what a Herxheimer effect is, right? Yeah. Okay, so when you - It's part of the die-off. This doesn't happen to everybody, but when you kill a bunch of parasites. It feels so good right afterwards. It releases a bunch of toxins as the parasites die. And so sometimes people doing a parasite cleanse feel worse initially.

46:41Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

46:42Adam Schafer:And that's called the Herxheimer effect. It can also happen with treating sebum.

46:45Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I remember when you told me to be ready for that. So don't quit it just because you don't. Because a lot of people, I'm sure, don't know that. And then they start taking it like, oh, these make me feel terrible, so I don't want to take them anymore.

46:53Justin Andrews:That's why I haven't started mine yet, just because we have vacation next week. And I was like, I didn't know if I was going to have that kind of response or not. How common is the Herxheimer effect?

47:02Adam Schafer:Because it's not – so I've known a few people have done these protocols, and only one kind of had a Herx.

47:09Sal Di Stefano:Do you think – is that more of a genetic thing, or is it how bad it is? That's why they feel that way. I don't know.

47:14Adam Schafer:That's a good question. It could be because your detox pathways aren't so great, because you have to detox all that. Right. So that's a good question.

47:22Justin Andrews:Yeah, 10 % to 15 % of individuals feel that. So that's not huge.

47:27Adam Schafer:So 1 out of 10 or so, we'll go through it. The product they have for parasites is legit. Yeah. I mean, you can go the pharmaceutical route, which is, I mean, you're nuking stuff. But you could totally start with this. And what I like about this natural one is you just do it once a year. Might as well go through it once a year and do the whole thing. Yeah. But I was talking to, what's his name? Who runs Organifi? Yeah. Drew's like, dude, you got to see the pictures people are mailing in.

47:57Sal Di Stefano:Oh, God. They really get people mailing in pictures? Not mailing. Email.

48:00Adam Schafer:Yeah, yeah. People are emailing them pictures of the stuff that's coming up. Oh, God. That's so gross.

48:05Sal Di Stefano:It's like a before and after picture.

48:07Adam Schafer:And there's specific things you can see. Now, there's obviously. This is like white worms? There's specifically like parasites that you see, like white strands. Yeah. And then there's like, what look like smaller kind of like, almost like it looks like an empty capsule, I think. I mean, if you want to Google it, you can.

48:22Justin Andrews:What's the most common parasites right now that people are dealing with? I don't know. Yeah, I wonder. Oh, just because you hear about like, yeah, like in the south, and like that hookworm was like very pervasive everywhere. Yeah, dude. I wonder what it is now.

48:37Adam Schafer:What are you seeing? Comment? Oh, Doug's looking up.

48:40Justin Andrews:Yeah, so I was looking for that last one I was looking at. You just did take common right there. Yeah, there we go. So I can't see this very well. I went, uh, whipworm, tapeworm, um, my eyes, roundworm, giardia, hookworm, and coquilla. Is that how you say it? I don't, I don't know how to pronounce it. Coquilla maybe. Okay. Uh, yeah, those are the main ones, I guess.

49:07Adam Schafer:Yeah. Well, that was game changer for me. That was the thing that was causing all my gut issues. Did I ever tell you guys the time my grandfather, the story he tells me, he told me before he passed away. He used to tell a story all the time. He, of when he got rid of his tapeworm. No. Bro, it's the worst thing ever. Yeah, let me hear it. So he lived very poor in Sicily and then gets married to my grandma. He's got no way to support his family. He had a connection in Venezuela of all places. Took a boat to Venezuela, lived in this like little shack with a bunch of other men and worked, I think it was a tire shop or something like that, and would send money back.

49:49Adam Schafer:But it was like, I mean, he tells stories. He's like, Sal, he goes, there were cockroaches all over the floor where we slept. It was like really, really crazy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said that he had thought he had, I don't remember why he thought he had a parasite. I think it was because he was losing weight and he was eating and he couldn't figure out what was going on. So I don't know how legit this, my grandfather's story, everybody, I would not, don't do this, but he said he drank some gasoline. And - What? Wow Yeah dude I gotta get this thing out And he said It came out Oh my god It came out And then he felt it coming out And he had to pull it out Like Vomiting it out No no no Google that down Is there any Is there any I think that'll kill I think that'll kill A person too Of course Gasoline is not I wonder if it was

50:32Sal Di Stefano:Like an old time Old strategy I have no idea Why he tells it He loves telling that story Gasoline and parasite cleanse

50:37Adam Schafer:He would tell that story To his grandkids all the time We were just like Oh no no I don't wanna hear that

50:42Sal Di Stefano:Oh my god

50:44Adam Schafer:Oh, boy. Was historically used as a folk remedy. Wow. He was telling the truth. Yeah, bro. Sometimes I hear stories from my older relatives. And he's like, no way. No way, dude. Look at that, bro.

50:56Justin Andrews:You just poisoned yourself.

50:58Adam Schafer:He drank gasoline, bro.

51:00Justin Andrews:Wow. Wow. Hardcore. Bro. There you go, dude.

51:03Sal Di Stefano:So hardcore. There you go. It was legit.

51:05Adam Schafer:It was real.

51:06Sal Di Stefano:That's crazy. That is so crazy.

51:08Adam Schafer:That's so crazy. I told you guys about it. He's got so many stories. I told you about how when we were kids, we would marvel at my grandfather's ability to inhale boiling hot pasta or beans. Yeah, I remember. Like, I mean, scalding. Like, you put your finger in there, it would melt your finger. Yeah. And he would hold the bowl with a fork and a spoon. How does that not burn your insides? Three times. Just adapt it to it. He would just, like, three scoops. He would, boop, boop, boop, and he'd gone. Probably built up scar tissue all the way down his throat and mouth. No, it's actually a sad story.

51:39Adam Schafer:because when we were kids we would laugh about it and he would love to do it in front of everybody

51:43Sal Di Stefano:to kind of no i mean you've told the story before why because he just you you had to eat or yes you wouldn't get your food in the line he had this car time we get when he was a boy like 10 11 he

51:52Adam Schafer:had to go off sometimes for two days three days to try to make money to bring back to his family yeah and sometimes he'd sneak on top of a train or whatever and he'd find work on these farms and he'd be working with grown men yeah which you know god knows what else happened he's a 10 year old kid, the owner would feed the workers and they'd bring out a pot of beans. And he's like, if I didn't eat, I had no food because everybody else would eat the food. So I learned how to eat the food when it was so hot that nobody else could. So that was how he learned. Isn't that crazy?

52:22Sal Di Stefano:But I mean, to Justin's point, what I was saying was that like, how did you do that? Like, that's how he did it. But what it, what allowed him to do it is probably, he probably built up scar tissue. I think you would, you would, you would burn, you would burn your mouth and throw it enough times that it would build up scarring. and then you would be able to handle it. I have no idea. Right? I mean, that's logically the only way that works. Sounds painful either way. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure it was. I'm sure it was. I have no idea.

52:43Adam Schafer:They made him different back then, you guys. Yeah. I did, dude. So he would be like, sometimes I wake up, I don't have his shoes because of my brother taking it. Sometimes I have his shoes.

52:52Sal Di Stefano:What's crazy about that is 10 years old. That's wild.

52:55Adam Schafer:10, bro. Wow. I saw a picture of him when he was, it was 11-year-old kid. My grandmother had this picture of this boy covered in, looked like soot, and really tattered looking clothes and having a stick with two baskets of what looked like potatoes maybe. And when I was a kid, I remember I saw the pen. I'm like, no, no. Who's this poor kid? She's like, that's your grandfather. I'm like, what? She's like, that's a picture of your grandfather. I'm like, oh man. He's like a child.

53:23Sal Di Stefano:That's crazy. I know. So crazy. That's so crazy. I tell you guys, I had a dream about Doug last night. Another one? Wait, are you trying to get your certification? I'm planting the seed right now.

53:36Justin Andrews:I'm going to write my letter. No, it wasn't that kind of dream.

53:38Sal Di Stefano:It wasn't that kind of dream. You know, for the audience, this may not be as funny as it was, it ended up being for me, because if you don't know Doug and I's relationship, like you guys know, one of the things about Doug is he'll let you tell him stuff, even though in his head he already disagrees or doesn't like it. But he'll let you keep doing that until he's had enough. And I always know when I've had enough because it's like, Adam, I don't want that. but he'll let you he'll let me kind about yes he's so kind about it like he could have stopped he could have shut it down way earlier you know i'm saying and so i'm so happy telling me what to

54:11Adam Schafer:do yeah yeah yeah i'll just keep letting a good time i'll keep listening to him even though i

54:16Sal Di Stefano:totally disagree like he's just like he'll do that right and of course he's he's he's remodeling his house right now and so i have lots of opinions right i'm like because you love it yeah yeah right so you should do this you should do that you should do this and of course doug always yeah yeah it's not his head you know i'm saying and i'll keep pushing you know because you know my personality right i'll keep pushing it keep pushing it yeah yeah exactly like hey you do that you do keep pushing that direction until finally he goes adam i don't want to do that you know i'm doing this right so that sets the table for how why this dream would even kind of happen like that so i have this dream and uh i'm i'm just i keep trying to egg doug on about his garage and you guys i don't know if you've been this have you guys seen this place no i haven't seen just pictures yeah so he's so he's got a he's got a really nice garage like i'm very jealous i have garage envy right so he's got like a garage that could fit like six plus cars inside it so it's really big and so of course i have all kinds of opinions on on what he should do with his garage so that's what's happening in the dream is i'm telling him like yeah he's constantly like he's going through this like where i could tell he's like listen to me and finally adam i don't i don't want to do that and then he takes me over to the garage and then he opens the garage and there's this huge again, he's in this huge six, eight car garage and the whole outside is completely lined with bunk beds.

55:33Sal Di Stefano:I can see what he's doing. You also, if the audience doesn't know, Doug's very undercover about stuff, right? We always tease him about it.

55:42Adam Schafer:You're going to find something out there. Yeah, exactly.

55:44Sal Di Stefano:He's always doing something that we don't know about or he's got some thing he's working on. Some hobby or something. Yeah, exactly. Some hobby or some tax strategy gee, he's got it. We don't know about Doug's doing, right? And it's kind of one of those moments where he's unveiling it to me, right? And I'm like, what is this? And he's like, I'm going to rent all these beds out. Brilliant. Yeah, yeah, for 200 bucks a month. It's super low, cheap. But imagine there's bug beds in this huge thing. There's like 30, you know what I'm saying, that are in here. And he's breaking the math down to me and calculating how it covers the mortgage plus and over some of them.

56:20Sal Di Stefano:And so that's what's happening in the garage. Wow. And I'm like, you know me, I get mad because he didn't let me in on the investment idea. You know what I'm saying? Like, damn, that is a good idea. So that was such a weird -

56:30Justin Andrews:Exactly what I watched, 30 people living in my garage.

56:32Sal Di Stefano:I know, it was such a, it was so, never would happen. But I have no idea where that came from or why it was. But it felt so real. It felt so real because I'd been over his place so many times. And it is like me typically trying to do that. I've already felt that energy from him and me trying to tell him what to do with his house. And him telling me like, Adam, that's not what, I'm going to do this. you know and so it was just like that and he opens the garage door and there's bunk beds lined all the way around i'm like what is this it's like listen i'm gonna rent these out i could still

57:00Adam Schafer:park cars in there too you're doing the math in your head like yeah he's oh my god that's like

57:06Sal Di Stefano:10 grand yeah he's good then he calculates it out to me and i'm just like oh my god it's brilliant and then i'm mad like he doesn't let me in like why didn't you tell me why didn't you tell me we're gonna do we're gonna win in on this together oh my god i want to help you yes dude

57:21Adam Schafer:How is the remodel going, Doug? It's going. It's a slower than anticipated process. It isn't always. It always is with remodels. Yeah. Just expect that.

57:30Justin Andrews:But it's starting to take form, which is exciting.

57:33Adam Schafer:And you're already staying there and everything. Oh, no, I'm not. No, no. There's no floors or anything.

57:37Justin Andrews:Oh, yeah.

57:38Sal Di Stefano:No, he's not staying there. You can't stay there.

57:39Justin Andrews:How long until you go stay there? That's a great question. I don't know the answer. I mean, it's looking more like August, September. I mean, if all goes well. Wow.

57:49Adam Schafer:Yeah.

57:49Justin Andrews:Have you met your neighbors? I have. Some of them, yeah. Nice people.

57:53Sal Di Stefano:I don't think I asked you that if you've met your neighbors.

57:54Justin Andrews:I've met like three different neighbors so far. All right, dude.

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59:04Justin Andrews:First question is from Chris Jones, WMXC. Are step-ups a good substitute for squats? No. No. Different exercise. Yeah, different.

59:13Sal Di Stefano:Great exercise. It's a great movement.

59:16Adam Schafer:Underrated. I think it's super underrated. I think it's extremely functional. It's not like this huge muscle builder, but it's great for stability. It's great for balance. Lots of carryover into the regular world. Step-ups for me as a trainer were a staple exercise of my clients.

59:33Sal Di Stefano:I'm glad you said that and brought this up because we actually don't talk about step-ups a lot. Not that much. And the irony of that is I actually did it with almost all of my clients. It was one of my staple exercises.

59:43Justin Andrews:I programmed it all the time.

59:44Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. In fact, we should probably do a little more talking about how valuable step-ups are because we don't talk about them. Yeah, I know that about all of us. Step-ups were a staple exercise for clients. And so it is an important movement that you should do.

1:00:02Adam Schafer:I think it just gets overshadowed often by the big muscle builder.

1:00:07Justin Andrews:Yeah, people are trying to build muscle, and it's not something you bring in that conversation very often.

1:00:11Adam Schafer:No, no. But hey, look, I tell you what. And it's a great, there's two different ways you could use this if you are into muscle building. So if you're someone who likes to squat heavy, train hard, it's a great way to warm up the body. It is a great way to do that because the stability involved, the depth that you start from. So you could do step-ups, then go to your barbell squats. It's also a great finisher for people who want more of a pump. You can make it glute-focused. You can make it more quad-focused depending on where you place your foot. But functionally speaking, it's like, I mean, it's easily a top.

1:00:42Adam Schafer:For me, of all the leg exercises I had my clients do, it's top five in terms of frequency of how much I use.

1:00:51Sal Di Stefano:Well, another reason why that is is the ability to regress and progress it is really nice. Totally. You could take a client who is really deconditioned and you could put them on a tiny little step up to a balance. And then they can go up a couple weeks later to double that step up to a balance. And then you just keep progressing that client. then eventually load it. And then it's like, I mean, there's a, there's, it's a very nice exercise to, but somebody who can, who can squat is like barbell back. Like a reason why I would do that with a lot of clients is those clients also couldn't do a barbell back squat.

1:01:26Sal Di Stefano:Right. And so this was a good progression to get them strong enough to where we can go do barbell back squats. Um, I wouldn't call it a substitute for that though. I mean, you would, you would, no, very different movement.

1:01:37Justin Andrews:Next question is from Karen E. Itso. My 13 year old son will be training for his soccer season this summer twice and wants to incorporate strength training. What program would be best for him to start with?

1:01:49Adam Schafer:Great question. And so if he's in season, not very much. So if he's doing a lot of practice, like one day a week, a few lifts is perfectly fine. Off season, so long as he can perform the lifts properly, MAPS anabolic would be good. Or if he's just getting started, brand new, never done it before, he could use our suspension trainer program, map suspension. He could use, even if he gets experienced power lift. Here's the thing about kids. There's this misconception with strength training in kids and how it may be dangerous or whatever. First off, a lot of the strength gains that kids get from strength training are neuromuscular, which is good.

1:02:32Adam Schafer:It's very good. Neuromuscular strength gains are great. And they also build muscle and it also improves their athletic performance. The challenge is with athletes, with young athletes, because a lot of the teenage kids that start strength training are also athletes at the same time, is not overdoing it and placing too much emphasis on it because it takes away from the practice of those sports.

1:02:54Justin Andrews:Yeah, and emphasizing that proprioceptive ability and, you know, strength in different planes, you know, just so, too, like, it better places them. Because their body's going to be in all kinds of, with sports especially, is going to expose a lot of, like, rotation, a lot of, like, lateral movement, a lot of things that, you know, within, you know, the gym setting, you can strengthen those particular planes of motion. So that way, at least like your joints don't take on all the force and you can, your muscles can get involved and react, uh, you know, and adapt appropriately. But yeah, like simple for kids, like what I've found, it's, I usually lean more towards the 15 programs to be honest.

1:03:38Adam Schafer:Oh, 15 performance. Uh, yeah.

1:03:40Justin Andrews:Just because of the, the amount of volume, like I've like to, to really just focus in on, you know, one skill at a time and then kind of move to the next. and they see that strength gain, it really helps to kind of prepare them and then get them, you know, like get those wins in and see that progression. And they're already moving around so much with their sport and their practice to begin with.

1:04:06Sal Di Stefano:I love that minimalist approach. I would go the same. You know, to be honest, the 13-year-old part is the least important part of the question because how I would start somebody, whether they're 13 or 40, is at what level skill level they are at training and if this person is if this 13 year old has never lifted weights never done anything then a minimalist approach is a no-brainer one or two lifts get proficient at them get good practice the lifts that's the advice um it's the end season or out of season is the most important piece of this of like how much would we allow them to do that or not do that because they're already doing so much and just throwing a bunch of weight training on top of somebody who's you know playing sport five days a week is a lot.

1:04:50Sal Di Stefano:And so, and you're, you're risking injury more than anything else. But they're a 40 year old that's never lifted weights before. You're, you're going to regress them the same way you would a 13 year old. They're going to do something that is very entry level starter or a 15 minimalist type of program and then progress them. But the, the, the soccer, how much they're playing in season, out season is really dictates like how much programming this person should or shouldn't have.

1:05:17Justin Andrews:Next question is from ShallWeFitness. What do you guys think about all these influencers pushing the narrative that you have to drop heavy barbell lifts after 40? That's a thing? Who's saying that?

1:05:30Adam Schafer:So here's the category of people that need to be careful with heavy lifting. There's two categories. One, the person that doesn't have good technique or control to the advanced lifter who's really strong where getting stronger is not worth the risk. Yeah. The benefits are minimal at that point. That's right. So if you have good technique, good form, you're not in the category of like you're hitting crazy numbers, like go for it. But like you're starting to get really, really strong. And you know, for yourself, you've been lifting for three years, like, man, this is like a heavy weight for me. Pushing more strength sometimes isn't worth the risk.

1:06:08Adam Schafer:And there's other ways to improve without always adding weight to the bar. And then back to what I said earlier, like if you don't have good technique or control, you have no business going heavier. You got to work on that first.

1:06:20Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, when we get asked about a general question like this, influencers saying this thing and a general statement like that, I'd always like to see a clip of what you're referring to. Who are they pointing to? Because I could also, if I was playing devil's advocate and I was trying to support this argument, And I can also support it to kind of the angle that Sal was starting to go. I've let go of a lot of really heavy barbell deadlifting and squatting, which just doesn't serve me. I'm not trying to build any more than I build. I don't have to move that much weight. You know, 225 to 315 on the bar when I'm deadlifting or squatting is plenty of weight to sustain my strength in my legs and the look that I like.

1:07:07Sal Di Stefano:And so pushing those numbers much higher is what I would consider really heavy. So I consider what I'm lifting very moderate or even light. So it's relative to what your strength abilities are and have you worked up to that. So I'd be really interesting to see this clip of someone saying that because I can get behind that. My own advice to myself is like, Adam, let go of chasing the 400 plus pound squat. Let go of being over 500 pounds. I don't need to do that. At my age, you know what I should do more of? More mobility work and more stuff like that. And so I haven't earned the right to even be pushing those types of numbers.

1:07:48Sal Di Stefano:And so I could see giving that advice to myself. But then I would never want to discourage somebody who is just getting into strength training, even if they're in their 40s, because heavy to them could be 185.

1:08:00Justin Andrews:That's the thing, it's relative.

1:08:01Sal Di Stefano:That's what I mean. Yeah. That's why I want to see a clip of what are we talking about. Just because you're 40.

1:08:06Justin Andrews:Generalizing this, I wouldn't put a general statement out there like that. Because even when we're looking at programming for 40 plus, for instance, we're looking at risk reward and what we could get in terms of strength. And something like, so if I'm just shifting my focus of just the deadlift to now trap bar deadlift, because I've trained for so long to the point where I've built up all this strength where my joints are actually getting impacted a bit more. like that's where I'm going to start shifting more into the less risk but it's like it all determines like the person with their experiences

1:08:41Adam Schafer:to make it less speculative I'll say this if you just started strength training now and you're consistent for the first couple years just get stronger just get stronger for the first couple years getting stronger is what's going to give you the best everything which by the way requires heavy lifting on the barbell that's right that's what I mean after that relative to you that's what I mean it's less speculative because what's heavy for one is not so heavy for another yeah but for a good two years just your goal should just be get strong get strong and be balanced and be appropriate don't be stupid but just get strong that'll give you the best everything after that then you can start to play the game of like risk versus reward but you got a good couple years of

1:09:20Sal Di Stefano:strength i mean did you see that this is why i wanted to see you see did you see the clip that doug pulled right there of course that guy would say stop that's that i mean look at him yeah he's definitely lifted heavy lifting for a decade for decades yeah you know what i'm saying and now he's saying don't do that well okay yeah that makes sense because you've for 30 years you've probably lifted heavy and built a tremendous amount of muscle that's right yeah and so you could cut your weight in half after 40 and not barbell back squat and still have a great physique and be strong and all those things yeah but he'd i tell you right now he certainly didn't get there not heavy lifting that's right so you gotta be so there's there's nuanced to a statement like that and so instead of us just hammering it one way saying i disagree it's like well i can make the case for why that guy would say that or why i would say that but i wouldn't just say general advice to like that to people who are somebody who is 39 40 and they're just getting into a barbell lifting and they see a clip like that and they're like oh shoot you know i should i not put any more weight on the bar because or should i stop doing this barbell back squatting even though i'm getting stronger and it's feeling right it feels it's like no it's like let's keep going but yeah if you put on that much muscle and you're you're in your 40s and you're already lifting three 400 plus pounds in these lifts like yeah there's not a lot of reward anymore for you after 40 and and

1:10:39Justin Andrews:that much muscle next question is from preacherman joe do you have any crazy gym stories or experiences you witnessed working as a trainer? Oh, my God. There's so many.

1:10:51Sal Di Stefano:Oh, my God. So many. You know which one?

1:10:52Adam Schafer:Okay, so I have a few that pop up. So I'll let me pick the first. So first one was the gnarliest injury I'd ever seen in my entire life was managing the 24 in Hillsdale. And there was a dude lifting, and he unracked one side of the incline without the other one. and so the barbell flipped. He blocked it with his forearm and I've never seen this until then and since. Broke his arm and his bone was sticking out. Oh. Have you ever seen someone broken arm sticking out? I have one time. I've seen a leg like that. I've never seen an arm like that. Bro, it was sticking out. That's how bad it hit. And it was, yeah, it was sticking out of his forearm and blood was going.

1:11:40Adam Schafer:And we're like, call an ambulance right away, dude. And like, what do I do? i'll never forget that because that was i'll give you my last one we can make a whole episode

1:11:50Sal Di Stefano:obviously of hours of this conversation because we've been in the industry for so long gyms are entertaining yeah i'll give you i'll give you the last one the last one i remember when i was still working in the gyms uh i don't know if i've actually told this story or told you guys a story uh this there was this uh heavy set lady she was probably three 300 plus pounds at least uh maybe like 350 plus uh and uh she was on like some sort of crystal meth or something crazy like super super so she was high in the gym very very high in the gym and she was doing all kinds of weird movements in their size and talking out loud and everything like that and i remember we had we had actually called the police because we were trying to get her to stop using the equipment the way she was doing it.

1:12:36Sal Di Stefano:We had the hammer strength chest press machine that was facing the mirror, which was like, if you can imagine, the mirror is only about, I don't know, three feet from the machine so you can see yourself. And she was holding the handles and she was walking her feet up the mirror. While holding it? Yeah. Walking her feet up the mirror while she's just doing weird stuff like that. And so the - Meth is a hell of a drug. Yeah, cops. She's strong. Fire department showed up and was trying to get her to come over so they could kind of assess her, and she was, like, running away from them. And they're, like, trying to chase her through the gym.

1:13:14Sal Di Stefano:She runs into the wet area, and then she jumps into the sauna. And then they're, like, trying to get her to come out, and she starts taking all her clothes off. Oh, my God, dude. And then they're, like, standing around. None of them want to get wet and get in there, you know what I'm saying, and try and wrestle this girl with that. So they keep trying to get in there. And then when they stepped towards the spa, the jacuzzi, as if they were going to get in, she would go underwater. Oh, so she was in the jacuzzi?

1:13:36Adam Schafer:Yeah, she was in the jacuzzi. Oh, did I say sauna?

1:13:39Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I meant jacuzzi. And she'd get in the jacuzzi. So she'd dive underneath? She'd dive underneath and hold her breath for a while, and then she'd butt back up. Oh, my God. And so, yeah, it took a really long time before these guys finally got her.

1:13:48Adam Schafer:How do you get someone like that out?

1:13:49Sal Di Stefano:I can't remember how they finally got her to. I think they finally just coerced her to come out, and they just wanted to check on her and see if she's okay. Lifeguard. But she was obviously very, very high. But the things that she was doing for her size, I was like, whoa.

1:14:07Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:14:07Sal Di Stefano:So I don't know what kind of drug that she – I never found out.

1:14:10Justin Andrews:Probably PCP.

1:14:11Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. I always hear things about PCP. Yeah. She was on something that was unique that I had never seen before. And I'd seen people on crystal meth. I said it's crystal meth, but it was something probably like PCP because the stuff that she was doing was like, whoa, I can't believe she's doing that. You're like superhuman. Yeah. I remember when it was happening that we you couldn't help but watch for a little bit you know when at first you're like that's not good that's dangerous and then when it got to the point obviously the cops could call when she started walking up the mirror and suspending herself like that I was like oh god we gotta get this lady out of here and so yeah you know this story

1:14:47Justin Andrews:I mean I was there when this happened and we all reviewed the footage of it later but I was actually walking on my way out I just finished up training clients and all that. Shotgun guy? The shotgun guy. He comes in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he comes in, and I think he was wearing a coat, and was looking around and was very angry looking and looking up over the pants. Was he looking for his wife? He was looking for his wife. Oh, my God. Because she was supposedly there with either a gym partner or another trainer. I don't remember which, but he was looking over, and then he pulls his gun out. And that's when I was opening the door, and I look back, and I'm like, oh, God.

1:15:26Justin Andrews:Like hustle out of there. Just like, I'm out. I'm out. I'll see you later. Tell me what happened. He's just like pointing it around and then finally they convinced him to leave. I guess they called the cops and everything.

1:15:39Sal Di Stefano:He was really calm. I was in my office and by the time I had seen him, he had already walked in and he actually had the shotgun resting on his shoulder and he was talking to my front desk girl. And I look up for him. What? What the fuck? There's a dude at the front desk with a shotgun over his shoulder. And I see him talking to my -

1:15:55Adam Schafer:You're like, what do I do, wrestle it out? Actually get shot?

1:15:57Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. I mean, it would have been probably scarier if he was pointing it at someone or he looked all right. He actually looked really calm, but he was asking for - It's so-and-so. He's asking the front desk girl, and she's like, I can't just give you someone's personal information like that. And he was trying to get her to give up if she was -

1:16:14Justin Andrews:Dude, that's terrifying. Yeah.

1:16:16Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah.

1:16:16Justin Andrews:I didn't realize what was happening. And I came back, and then we started watching the film in there. And it was like, you could see. like I just kind of looked at him like oh yeah he eventually just walked out on his own like we

1:16:26Sal Di Stefano:didn't have to throw him out or anything like that I think we ended up telling him like she's not here dude sorry she's not here and we had it walking out at the Sunnyvale location before they

1:16:34Adam Schafer:redid it this is uh club 506 shout out there was this big he was probably in his 40s so I'm like 20 at the time uh biker so like big biker dude big white dude uh braids you know like like ponytail type of deal and he's walking around in the wet area so back at the old sunny vale you could see the pool from the front desk there was like a window and you kind of look in there and he was angry and threatening people so he might have been i don't know if he was on drugs didn't seem like it but he was like threatening people so people came out one of the things that sucks about being a manager in a gym is you got to deal with the stuff so you can't just be like call the manager like oh crap that's me so he was like threatening people and members were coming out like there's a guy in there who's like threatening and he's aggressive and whatever so i'm like oh man i gotta deal with this so i look in the window he's this big dude big biker dude so i'm like oh this sucks so i walk in there and i'm like let me assess it before i call the police i'm like hey man what's going on and he started kind of yelling at me and i don't know where i came up with this idea it's one of the most brilliant things ever did my entire life bro my whole staff saw this they just thought i was the smartest dude ever so he's talking to me getting all like aggressive and i'm like look man i said do you want to step outside with me Do you want to handle this outside?

1:17:47Adam Schafer:He's like, yeah, I do. I said, after you. So I do this. He walks out the front door and I lock it. And he turns around. He looks at me through the front door. And he figures out I locked the door. And then I waved at him. And I called college, bro. Blow him a kiss. Yeah, dude. And my staff was like, that was the smartest thing ever. I'm like, thank God. Yeah, that was pretty smart. Thank God he walked out for it. We had another guy that went naked. So they co-ed dry sauna. This was Salinas when I ran. This is my first club I ever ran. this is like week two so this is like a great introduction to be a manager the people come out it's like there's a dude that's naked so it's co-ed he's like there's a guy that's just naked in there in the sauna yeah so i'm like oh what do i do i'm like what do i do so i walk over there i look through the window and there's a dude just standing no one's in there but him and he's just standing there buck naked and i'm looking at him and i go to open the door and he starts to pee wow he's just standing there while he's starting to pee and so i was like i just walked out, called the cop, like, we're going to deal with this dude.

1:18:44Adam Schafer:Yeah.

1:18:44Sal Di Stefano:What am I going to do? I remember telling you guys the little Asian guy, the swimmer that I had to address, that guy. So I get a complaint, to your point, the manager.

1:18:56Justin Andrews:This is the Speedo guy that was doing curls in front of me?

1:18:59Sal Di Stefano:No, no, no, not that guy. Although that guy was, I remember that story too. You remember that one? This guy. So I get someone come up to me like, Adam, can you come talk to this guy? He's about his attire. I said, his attire? What's wrong with his attire? He's like, well, he's swimming in the pool, and I don't think he's wearing appropriate attire. And I'm like, what is he wearing, jeans or something like that? Whatever. So I come walking out there. And at this point, he's at the end of the pool, and he's coming towards me. He's got his cap on, goggles. He looks pretty legit to me. And I kneel down.

1:19:27Sal Di Stefano:I squat down to see him coming. As he gets closer, I start to notice, and I can just see butt cheeks. He's got a thong on it? He's wearing a thong. And my older guy, you know what I'm saying? And I'm sitting away from the poppy. Hey, man. I said, hey, can I talk to you for a second? You got to cut them cheeks up. Yeah. I said, hey, can I get you to maybe put on a different outfit or something like that? I said, some of the members would come up to me and complain about your swimming tires. So he looked confused as if it was totally appropriate and okay. And so he was nice. It was a real easy handle.

1:20:00Sal Di Stefano:It was just like, I'm so much faster in these though. The things that people think are appropriate, you know?

1:20:05Adam Schafer:I told you guys about the, sometimes you'll find like poop in the bathroom on the floor or something like that. This is not an uncommon thing in gyms. It's pretty gross. Yeah. But one time. Some people like waffle stomping. Stop. I know. One time I was running the club and bad timing. It was bad timing because we're about to shut down, about to shut the books down. It's probably like 11, maybe 10, 30. My porter had just left. So the next porter is going to show up, I don't know, like an hour later. Okay. because otherwise a member comes out. I was like, dude, somebody made a poop in the shower.

1:20:37Adam Schafer:And I'm like, oh, because the porter left. I'm like, I got to deal with it, dude. I'm the manager. So I took my sales guy who was about to go home. I'm like, you're not leaving, Chris. I need your help. Come with me. So we go in there in the shower, and there's just a poop next to the drain. And I'm like, again, I'm a kid. I'm like 20, so I'm like, what do I do? How do I get rid of this? Do I just wall it off? I'm not going to wait. Grab this thing. So I had the brilliant 20-year-old Sal idea of I'm going to get the hose and blast it down the drain. Yeah. That's logical, right? You blast it out of the wall.

1:21:08Adam Schafer:So Chris is standing over here. Oh, God. Did you blast it? Listen. He's standing over there. And I just started spraying this thing down. Like, you know, I get it all down. And then I'm in a wall. Okay. Pours it to come clean it. And I look at Chris. I'm like, oh, man, I'm sorry, bro. You got speckles all over there. Get a little bit of schmutz right here.

1:21:27Sal Di Stefano:Oh, bro. That's gross.

1:21:29Adam Schafer:I'm sorry, bro. he got smuggled over your brain he was so bad

1:21:34Sal Di Stefano:I don't know if that's grosser the guy I had to throw out of the jacuzzi for shaving he would rinse his razor someone comes up to me Adam can you come talk to this member they're shaving in the jacuzzi and I'm like they're shaving in the jacuzzi didn't even make logical sense to me and I come in and this guy's by himself in the jacuzzi and he's rinsing his blade off as he's sitting in there hot tub and shaving his beard just like his hairs are floating it's like he's hygiene max

1:22:05Adam Schafer:the things that people would do and just think that it's okay and appropriate like what have you had to kick out like uh masturbators out of the shower yeah oh yeah that that's a problem yeah that's way more common than it should be it's so you know what's fortunately common what sucks about it is what do you do how do you catch the person so i've had reports and then you go in there it's always somebody coming up to tell you about it yeah and you can't do anything because what are you going to do you got to catch him in the act type of deal yeah well i caught someone i had a member tell me and i'm like oh god okay so i walk i walk in there and there's and he's obviously stopped but he obviously just stopped because he was still aroused yeah so i see him he sees me he turns around real quick so i'm like so i'm talking to his back i'm like hey uh when you're done showering yeah come see you come to the front desk and talk with me yeah so then he comes up he's like hey what's up man i'm like listen dude i knew you were doing the shower.

1:22:58Adam Schafer:You impressed? I wasn't doing anything. You were doing something, dude. I can tell you did it. I'm going to cancel your memory shift so you can complain to the corporate office, bro. That was the worst. Oh, boy. I don't do that. We've got a lot of stories. Look, if you like the show, and I know you love it now, come check us out on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there.

1:23:16Justin Andrews:Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, Check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

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