2904: How to Reverse Osteoporosis and Osteopenia (The Data-Backed Formula That Actually Works)

15:02Adam Schafer:It looks like, ooh, eight reps. It looks like maybe one more we could do, but we're going to rest. We'll sit here and rest. That's your squats. I know. That's the exercise we're doing.

15:10Justin Andrews:And it's so functional, too, for their everyday life. They're always going to be looking for a chair or couch or whatever, like even the toilet. And it's like, you know, to strengthen that pattern, you know, definitely benefits their life.

15:22Adam Schafer:Yeah, and I'm going to say this. your strength gains will come just as quickly as a percentage of your overall strength as they do for a 20 year old. That's what the data shows. It's very clear. Your ultimate potential is different than a 20 year old, but you'll see yourself get stronger relatively consistently, especially the first year that you're doing this. So I would get a client. I'm just, again, I'm giving you examples of actual people I worked with who could maybe sit down and stand up five times, two months later, 20. That's how dramatic of a difference over a two-month period that they'd get that strength.

15:55Adam Schafer:By the way, how often should I strength train? Two days a week? Two days a week, you're fine. Two days a week is enough to make this happen. Number two, and here's now pointing to what Adam was talking about, because he mentioned, what about the people that strength train all the time and still have bone mass issues? Here's the problem. They're eating too little. So you see this a lot in the fitness space. This is kind of an orthorexic eating disorder type where they count everything. They're so afraid of gaining any ounce of body fat. They do all the right things in the workout, but they're constantly under eating, which will cause your bones to weaken.

16:30Adam Schafer:If you're trying to get stronger, you need to fuel the strength gains. You need to fuel the muscle gain, which means you got to eat enough to do it, especially protein.

16:38Sal Di Stefano:And or overtraining. So it looks like that sometimes. Burning out. Right, because somebody might be like, well, I eat a good amount of calories, but not relative to the amount of training that they're doing, right? So they are training six days a week intensely, plus they go on bike rides and marathon running and all kinds of – and then they do all these things to maintain that body fat percentage, or they intentionally walk 20 ,000 steps every single day to keep their calorie burn up and movement up. And so even though they may not be what the average person may think is a dangerously low place of calories, say 23, 2400 calories, but then their activity level and their amount of training they're doing is so high that this happens also.

17:21Sal Di Stefano:So it can be a combination or just one by itself. So it could be just grossly under eating for a very long period of time and still strength training, or it can be both under eating. and many times in these fitness people, like the orthorexic ones, it looks like that. It looks like both. It looks like.

17:40Adam Schafer:Too much exercise, not enough food.

17:41Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, too much exercise and not enough food. It results in this.

17:46Justin Andrews:I mean, this is the alarm for me with, you know, the GLP-1s. 100%. And I just talked about this with Courtney's friends just recently because she's pretty fit and then, like, went through, like, basically a year of, like, messing around with GLP-1s and shaving a lot of weight off, but was still maintaining a lot of exercise, but was just not eating, barely eating enough calories to sustain what she was doing. So yeah, the osteopenia came in.

18:18Adam Schafer:I'm glad you said that because you're seeing articles now where people are, oh my God, I was on a GLP for a year or two years. Now I'm in osteopenia. What happened? The GLP doesn't cause bone weakening. It has nothing to do with that. is that they're eating so little that you will lose, just like muscle mass. If you lose muscle mass, you're at risk of losing bone mass. Yep. Okay? Bone and muscle are very closely connected. Muscles get stronger and build. Bones get stronger and build. Muscles get weaker and you lose them. Bones tend to get weaker and you lose them. They're very, very closely connected.

18:54Adam Schafer:So if you're eating properly and strength training properly, what you will see are strength gains with your exercises, is whether it be your squats or your presses or your rows or whatever the exercises you're doing, you'll see strength gains. And you have to fuel that with the right amount of food and protein. Otherwise, it's just not going to happen.

19:11Sal Di Stefano:You know, this is one of the things that I love about what the DEXA scan does do, that it does show a bone density test. Yes. You know, traditionally as trainers, we always just did, you know, body fat calipers or the duct tape. We had no way of testing it. Yeah, we did not test bone density. And the DEXA scan actually does bone density. and so you can take and i like that a lot because you have some i and i've seen this in young 20 30 year old female clients that are especially this is common you see this in like the bikini world like bikini competitors that are used to really hardcore dieting and lots of cardio but they strength train and they have muscles and they have they look to the average person but their bone density is really especially for their age is extremely low um this can highlight like that you've been teetering in that direction already.

20:00Sal Di Stefano:And hopefully seeing that at a young enough age can course correct before you get into a dangerous place.

20:05Adam Schafer:I'll tell you, I'll say this again. The strength training protocol is a couple of days a week and eat to build for somebody who actually has osteopenia, osteoporosis or getting close to osteopenia. That's the formula. That's it. No more than that. In fact, we have a program that if you're listening and you've never done strength training, MAPS starter, follow that, and then you'll get stronger at the lifts, eat to build, and watch what happens. Now, the third thing that we're going to talk about has to do with nutrients. Too much emphasis has been placed here. I'm going to be quite honest. So you need key, you need appropriate amounts of key nutrients for bone strength, calcium, vitamin D, and magnesium.

20:45Adam Schafer:Those are important for bone strength. And they are, a majority of people, osteopenia, osteoporosis are deficient in those key nutrients. However, by themselves, they do not cause osteopenia and osteoporosis, unless you're so deficient that you're in like disease state. Just supplementing isn't going to solve. No, no, it won't. So that's why I want to go with that because people are like, oh, stronger bones.

21:10Sal Di Stefano:And it's less about those individual nutrients. It's more that you're so low on calories that that happens. That's part of it. That's part of it.

21:17Adam Schafer:But also, these nutrients definitely aren't part of the building, strengthening bone. But here's what happens. I'm sedentary. I don't do any strength training. Oh, I know. I'll just take vitamin D and calcium. It's not going to do much. No. You still need the signal. Your body still needs a reason to strengthen its bones. You need to give it adequate calories and macronutrients like protein and essential fats to help build the bone. And then you need the micronutrients to make that happen. So there's a correlation. but by themselves, I'm going to tell you right now, it will not fix your problem.

21:49Sal Di Stefano:Well, it's the same way I think you've tied it together already nicely with bone and muscle. It will be like somebody who has lost muscle and they no longer want to lose any more muscle and they go, oh, I was under eating protein, so I'm just going to eat more protein. But you don't do it. There's no strength training. But there's no strength training. You'll do very little. Yeah, you'll do very little. You might slow down where you're at currently and not lose any more muscle than you already have. So you might slow down the process of the losing bone. but if you don't give it a reason to grow and build, then the likelihood that you're going to reverse it or completely stop it is very unlikely.

22:22Sal Di Stefano:That's right.

22:22Adam Schafer:But yes, yes, if you're strength training and you're eating properly, you want to make sure you're taking or you have adequate vitamin D, calcium, magnesium, which are very important. And they're commonly, it's common to have people not have optimal amounts of those, especially vitamin D. And then lastly, it's very important, be consistent. Building muscle takes a long time. Building bone takes a longer time. It takes a long time. In the data where people are strengthening -

22:47Justin Andrews:What's the ratio of that? Yeah.

22:48Adam Schafer:Well, here's what you see. You see the bone loss stop, or it slows down and stops. And then a year later, we see an increase about 1%, sometimes 2%. So it takes a while. Yeah. So building muscle takes a while. Building bone takes a long time.

23:02Sal Di Stefano:We just had a recent client that was suffering this, and she shared her test. I think it was 1 % or 2 % in the year. Which is good. I don't think she realized how good it was. I think it was a little bit more than that. It was like a phenomenal, but sounded so low to her. Like, oh my God, I only moved this much percent. And I was like, oh my God, that's in one year's time. That's huge. I just want to say this.

23:25Adam Schafer:Like, you know, when I had clients come to me with certain situations that they were not going to work on, some of them would be more difficult for me than others. This one right here, I felt so confident. Yeah. I felt so. Somebody comes to me, osteopenia, osteoporosis. but I'm willing to come in and work out with you twice a week and I'll, I'll eat the way you tell me fixed. Nope. Listen, it's going to be fixed. It's just a matter of time. It's just a matter of time.

23:50Justin Andrews:Consistency wise is the big thing.

23:51Adam Schafer:I've had so many doctors call me and say, what are you, what are you doing with Linda? I can't believe like what her bone mass has increased. Like, what are you guys doing? I'm like, we're lifting weights. How many days a week? Once a week. What are you doing? Three exercises. And the doctor's just like, what? I know. Like, no, we're just getting stronger. And then I'd share the numbers. I was like, Linda could barely do a wall pushup. Now she's doing pushups off her knees on the ground. Like, it's just, she's just stronger and it works. So it works, everybody, but you got to stay consistent because, you know, if let's say you gain five pounds of muscle in six months, which would be phenomenal, it's much slower to build bones.

24:28Adam Schafer:You just got to be very, very consistent with what you're doing. Anyway, kind of along those lines with nutrients and stuff, Dude, I got to just brag on one of these supplements from Roe Nutrition. Okay. So Roe, for people listening, they make a supplement company, but they have this kind of medical-grade delivery technology called liposomal. Liposomal. So it makes everything much more bioavailable and easy to digest and all that stuff. But anyway, they have a curcumin resveratrol product, which is really good for inflammation. And you guys know I've been doing jujitsu. Yeah. and inflammation in my joints and connective tissue because I'm not used to moving that way.

25:06Adam Schafer:And so I started taking this twice a day about four days ago. Whoa, what a difference.

25:12Sal Di Stefano:Do you take it proactively like before you do it? Every day. Every day. And something like that, does it matter the timing of it in relation to the training and the possible inflammation or is it just it being in your system?

25:25Adam Schafer:Probably, I'm a guess. It's probably better to have it around, but I'm just using it daily because what it does is it helps produce a natural inflammatory, excuse me, a healthy natural inflammatory process. So it's not like blocking inflammation. It's like an adaptogen then?

25:40Sal Di Stefano:No. Like turning it down? No.

25:41Adam Schafer:Curcumin just has this kind of really nice anti-inflammatory effects, but it's not like a NSAID where it's going to hammer your inflammation down so much that you're going to stop recovery and stuff like that. So, and it's healthy. It's got lots of other properties for longevity. And I've known this. I've used it before. But curcumin, especially because it's liposomal, it's a fat-soluble compound. Doug just pulled it up right now.

26:05Sal Di Stefano:It works on the molecular level by blocking NFKB, a molecule that travels into the nucleolized cells and turns on. That sounds very adaptogen-like.

26:14Adam Schafer:Not quite.

26:15Sal Di Stefano:It doesn't say it's an adaptogen, but that's kind of how an adaptogen works, right?

26:19Adam Schafer:Yeah, adaptogens are interesting. Adaptogens make your body resilient to stress. I guess you could say that's part of what an adaptogen does, but this is really just a anti-inflammatory. So here's the thing with curcumin, which is one of the active compounds in turmeric. You got to take it with a fat. You don't absorb much unless it's with the fat. So liposomes are little fats.

26:39Justin Andrews:Yeah.

26:40Adam Schafer:And so I've been using this.

26:41Justin Andrews:I can't see a lot of people aren't doing that.

26:43Adam Schafer:Bro, I've used curcumin in the past when I did jujitsu before. That's why when I saw the button, I'm like, yeah, let me try to, this is the best one I've ever used. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm like four or five days in and like dramatic difference.

26:52Sal Di Stefano:I wonder if it's the delivery system that is why you notice the biggest difference. It's got to be, dude. Yeah, it feels great.

26:57Adam Schafer:cool i was gonna ask you adam about you have this like green energy oh bro i

27:04Sal Di Stefano:what's going on you guys ready for this or what so i am bro i i think i've mentioned it a little bit on the podcast i don't know i definitely have mentioned to you guys off air uh i think we've talked about it um i have solar um and i have uh i have quite a few panels i think i have 27 panels so i have plenty that's a lot and it's and it's paid off solar right so i don't have any extra like bill or you just own it yeah so um you know thanks for considering the environment by the way well that's i can't i can't take the credit i bought the house with it already on right and done so um but was like super excited about that like oh yeah i'm gonna save a bunch on my electricity bill right and uh you know katrina and i are coming up on uh a little like a year and a half or so since we've lived in this house of like so i've seen a full cycle of seasons and everything like that and i chalked the first year up of i did a lot of experimenting with like running stuff like crazy because i want to see like what's it look like yeah if i don't if i just don't run it all the time when i want when i and i heat the pole and all the things and so you know after i came like through a full year that i go okay well this is my year of like trying to be manage it be a little more responsive and as i've been doing that for like the last six months i'm not seeming to make any sort of an impact and so i'm getting really frustrated to make a difference yeah so it's like, I don't feel like I'm saving any money on having all these solar panels.

28:26Sal Di Stefano:These are like normal electricity bills like that I've always had, and they do it differently. So the way I get is like my electricity bill comes in and it is actually very, very low or modest, right?

28:36Adam Schafer:So there's a difference there.

28:38Sal Di Stefano:But that's because the way solar bills is that they have a true up, which they hit you every six months and they go, oh, this is what you used off the grid. So the way it works is while the sun is out and it's making electricity on your solar panels, you pull from that solar and you use it. So all day long, especially in the summertime, we have long days, and I'm running AC and stuff like that, I pull from that solar. Now, for some reason, let's say I wasn't home or I didn't run it very much, then any additional solar that I generate to the grid, they buy from me. Sounds great. Right. Sounds awesome.

29:16Sal Di Stefano:PG &E buys this from me. And then when it goes dark and I'm no longer using the solar, I now need to - Now you're pulling from the grid. Now I've got to buy back from them basically, right? Okay. So I'm like, so I get how this kind of works. And so I'm like, so I should be making over and I still should be, why am I still not saving a lot? Well, so I do all this digging. I go through the contracts and read. I'm on YouTube like crazy, find out how, I'm like, boy, is this a scam and I have to. Okay. so when when when pg and e the sun's not reading listen when uh and and and i apologize because i've only i've only done digging for a day on this so if i get the kill exactly exactly but you'll get the gist of what i figured out and the overall math of this so when i um when i go over and and i provide more to the grid yeah um pg and e buys it for eight cents on the kilowatt

30:13Adam Schafer:Oh, no, don't tell me, bro. Listen to this. You sell it hella cheap to them and buy it back expensive.

30:17Sal Di Stefano:Oh, my God. I sell it to them for$0.08. What? Okay, during whatever overage. Don't tell me, bro. And then when the night comes and I need it, I buy it back for$0.48. What? How did they work that out, dude? Wow, dude. Okay. What? $0.48. And there's no carryover. You need a markup. There's no carryover. So like in the summer when I'm pumping tons of extra because sun's up all and it's not just myself, by the way, because it goes to the grid. So they sell it back to you. So hold on.

30:47Adam Schafer:They buy it at 8 cents and they sell it to everybody else for 48. So you're making them hella money. Yes.

30:52Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, they're making them money. A ton. Yeah. A ton. So, and by the way, too, I pay an extra monthly fee every month just for them to have a special meter for my solar thing.

31:03Adam Schafer:So on top of it, you got to pay.

31:05Sal Di Stefano:So I have a guaranteed fee on top of that that I have already. and a contract. And then our city that we live in has an additional thing that charges me for being green energy, which is a monthly -

31:16Adam Schafer:They charge you for that?

31:17Sal Di Stefano:Yes. Yes. Dude. Okay.

31:20Adam Schafer:People aren't angry.

31:21Justin Andrews:Bro, it's like a hundred bucks.

31:22Sal Di Stefano:And by the way, it's like a hundred bucks. I feel. A hundred bucks a month the city is charging me. The meter thing is costing me another 25 bucks.

31:28Adam Schafer:You're getting charged 125 bucks to do something that everybody says is good for everybody. That's right.

31:33Sal Di Stefano:And that they get to go profit six times off of me on. and then sell me back mine at the going rate. So really what this is. It is the biggest scam. And then again, like I was starting to say, let's say I took the month. Hey, Justin, they pissed off the wrong guy. Dude, for real. That gets ripped off for you. He'll do the best.

31:53Justin Andrews:I wanted to see your reaction. What you saw was 48 cents. Oh, bro.

31:57Sal Di Stefano:I bought Chuck my computer. I came down storming downstairs to Katrina because I'm like, I was ready to hire a consultant.

32:05Adam Schafer:Bro, that's a racket. I was getting ready.

32:06Sal Di Stefano:So why I was doing this was like, let me take one more step because, you know, this was starting to cause rift between me and my wife. This is crazy. I'm like getting upset at my wife. There's such a monopoly here, dude. Oh, and then by the way, too, PG &E tells you that you should try and do your laundry on these off hours and peak hours. You guys want to know the difference between peak hours and off hours? How much? Four cents. Oh, my God. So if I do my laundry at midnight or one of the more weird hours, I save four cents. instead of it being 48 cents it's 44 cents so you're not saving I mean you know what rearrange your whole life to the running the AC at this time and doing your laundry this time also you could save a dollar let me try

32:53Adam Schafer:selling this or communicating this that makes me angry from PG &E's perspective so they're in the meeting right now right listen you guys the thing right now is green Yeah. Everybody wants to go green. And this is, we're going to sell this, right? Because that's good, right? Yeah, get them on. Everybody thinks it's good to go green so we can save the earth because that's what we need to do. So here's what we're going to do. Yeah. We're going to convince everybody to get solar panels. And really what it's going to do is give us energy. Add more energy for a cheap cost. We're going to get a huge margin on the energy everybody else produces because we're going to sell it back to them.

33:30Adam Schafer:You guys, listen. At a premium. Everyone's going to do this. and then everybody in the meetings say well how are we going to get people to fall for that it's good because it's green and that's how we're going to sell it

33:43Sal Di Stefano:oh you should see what you're saying is so spot on and they have little cartoon ads that are exactly what you're describing right now if you go to the PG &E website so let's say you're someone who's interested if you're interested in getting solar because maybe you are an environment By the way, how much you're an environment person or you're a person who wants to save money. Either one, but you're inquiring. And so you go to PG &E and you want to. These are the little cartoon things of what you're doing for the world and how you're going to save all this money. Because we're dumb. We need cartoons to save.

34:16Sal Di Stefano:It is such a racket. And look it. How many people do what you did and actually figure it out? Oh, not many. Because I'm sure that it's confusing, too. because I'm in a contract too, by the way, that binds me on the way that I have to do this because here's the other thing I'm trying to find. I'm trying to find the loopholes now. So now I'm looking for, can I try and hijack my own energy instead of sending it back to the grid and store it in a battery at my house so I can decide when I want to pull from my own energy that I'm overproducing and use it at my will. Now, I think I'm actually in a contract that does not allow me to do that.

34:54Sal Di Stefano:and I sign that when I get those.

34:57Adam Schafer:The energy you're collecting for the solar panels that you own on the roof of the house that you own where the sun is shining on you, you can't do that. Yeah. You don't actually own it. Yeah. Wow, dude. Do you guys want to know something crazy? Crazier than that? Yes. They added a tiny tax on tea and it caused the American Revolution.

35:19Justin Andrews:Right.

35:19Adam Schafer:Now we got stuff like that and people have just like, whatever. That's just the tip of the iceberg. That is, that's not even, that's not even close to it. It's so unethical. It's so unethical. And then my mind explodes.

35:28Sal Di Stefano:It is so unethical. And man, okay, so I'm, I could not imagine if I actually had the house first and then I went out and paid the - Yeah, because how much do those cost? $30 ,000,$40 ,000. Could you imagine if you spent$30 ,000 to$40 ,000? To make, to give, to give huge margins to a genie. Yeah, and you could look, Doug can Google this right now. On average, what does solar save you on your electricity bill? $100 to$300 on average. Yeah. That's nobody has, not in the Bay Area does anyone have$100,$300. I mean, most electric, if you have a house that's larger than 2 ,000 square feet, your electricity bill on average is probably$800.

36:05Oh, wow.

36:06Adam Schafer:There's a solar calculator there. What a racket. Such a racket. And then not to mention, I'm just going to add more. Let's just throw a little. Look at that. $100 to$200 per month. Yeah.

36:16Sal Di Stefano:Is what you. So it would take you 30 years pay off your solar panels bro and that's if they continue to they could decide like you know oh we're gonna change the price uh and which they have done so part of what i'm they dictate how much they pay to buy it back what i've communicated right now has evolved and changed the people who paid astronomical prices to to have their solar got grandfathered into a little bit better deal and stuff like that so as it's evolved and changed they continue to screw you more so because they've got so many people bought into this is the way to go like the tax benefits and the what the rate that they get is it's continuing to change and then that fee that i was talking about that was added this year january so that was that's a new fee they decided to slide in there that oh no one's gonna see an extra 25 bucks we're gonna charge everybody for just having it so now let's get

37:06Adam Schafer:into insurance no you know what the problem with that is is that uh you know pg and e is a is a monopoly because the regulations make it impossible to compete. So although it's a private company, it's really not. It's really just because what would be great is if there were competing energy companies who said, hey, you know what? We'll pay you$20. You know what?

37:27Sal Di Stefano:Cool, I'm going to sell you my energy. I was naive. I thought solar was representing like a competitor to your traditional PG &E way of getting energy. Ha, ha, ha.

37:37Adam Schafer:Yeah. Yeah. That's what I actually thought. I thought.

37:39Sal Di Stefano:Silly peasant. I totally. I thought the same thing. I thought when solar was coming on, it was like, hey, this is better for the environment. This is also an alternative to then going the traditional PG &E route.

37:50Adam Schafer:But let me ask you this, though. Don't you feel good inside? That people walk by your house and you look like you care about the environment?

37:57Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I just kept getting, and my poor wife, right? I'm like trying to, I'm trying to like, I'm over here calling her when I see her open the door for two seconds. I'm over here like telling her, what are you doing doing laundry right now? You're supposed to do laundry from this time to this time. They're like all to save four cents. You know what I'm saying?

38:15Justin Andrews:Dude, the latest thing we're fighting is all these areas they're zoning off for lithium battery dumps. Oh, yeah. They're trying to put them everywhere, dude. And this is all in areas along the coast where it's really nice and there's farmland all over. And I told you guys recently about that one that exploded. And this happens quite a bit.

38:37Sal Di Stefano:And then it gets toxic chemicals just everywhere. What's the logic of putting lithium, bearing lithium batteries near the ocean? Is it because they hope it's going to drift out and dissipate? Good God, no.

38:48Adam Schafer:I think there's just land out there. There's no logic.

38:50Justin Andrews:This is just like politicians lining their pockets, dude.

38:53Adam Schafer:Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Summed up. Have you looked into recycling here in the Bay Area?

38:58Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I know. I know. That's been dead for a long time.

39:00Adam Schafer:I know we haven't been recycling forever. Aluminum cans. That's it. That's the only thing they actually recycle. Yeah. Everything else goes in the same area.

39:06Justin Andrews:Because everything's lined with plastic, and they're like, oh, we can't use that.

39:09Adam Schafer:No, they throw everything in the same garbage. Because we used to sell our cardboard and stuff to China. They stopped buying it. Yeah, they didn't buy it anymore. So we have all these bins, and most places have. It's been California. You have a recycling bin. Make sure you separate everything. It goes on the same place. The only thing that they recycle is aluminum.

39:24Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

39:25Adam Schafer:That's it. Everything else is garbage. It's the same thing.

39:28Sal Di Stefano:It's so crazy that you do all that, too. Don't you feel good?

39:31Adam Schafer:You know, hey, there's garbage cans. Where was it? I think it was in Santa Cruz. You know the garbage cans are big, and it's recycling and then waste. and there's two holes. Yeah. I looked inside. It was the same bag. It was just two holes.

39:44Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, just feed it into the same bin.

39:46Adam Schafer:It was just two holes.

39:47Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I feel good. I'm putting my camera. Yeah, dude.

39:49Adam Schafer:I'm like, what did they do? It all does the same bag.

39:52Sal Di Stefano:That sums it up right there. Two holes, same place. Wow. That does sum it up right there. I was just so blown away as I continued to pull the thread. Have you guys watched? That's crazy. I didn't know anything. Is that not wild or was? When was the last?

40:07Adam Schafer:When was the last? yet another thing not since we're on this topic uh you have you remember inconvenient truth with um al gore was it al gore yeah you guys remember that i barely documentary i barely remember so that documentary kicked off this huge like kind of green movement or whatever yeah with the fear of climate change and oh my god this and that and and people get so up in arms about this topic but I just implore people to watch An Inconvenient Truth. Now go look at those things you brought up. They made predictions in there that by now we would have told. We should have seen it by now.

40:44Adam Schafer:So off. Yeah. So off. The fear in there that they stirred up was insane. 2006. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Near-term timelines were overstated or scientifically oversimplified. You know what's funny about AI? AI is a. Yeah, it's. not exactly accurate. No, you got to see, maybe Google Doug, what were the predictions made in... Well, I remember we were already supposed to be dead.

41:12Sal Di Stefano:It was like crazy.

41:13Adam Schafer:The coast wouldn't exist. Yeah, it's crazy stuff.

41:15Sal Di Stefano:I remember it was like over the top.

41:17Adam Schafer:Somebody told me this once too and it made a lot of sense. He said, here's how you know if they're telling the truth or not.

41:25Sal Di Stefano:Where do they buy? Where all the rich people buy?

41:27Adam Schafer:Are politicians still buying beachfront properties and are banks still financing them? Because banks are really good. Some of the best data collected ever is by banks and insurance companies. They've got it down. They know what percentage they can charge or whatever. Banks won't fund.

41:46Sal Di Stefano:Dude, look how hard it was for us to get fire insurance in Tahoe. Because it was legit. Because all it took was a couple fires over the last decade to happen more and statistically put them at a tiny bit and fraction more of a risk and now all of a sudden almost impossible to get insurance. It costs a crazy premium to do it. So you're right. Like if it was really even close to statistically true. You wouldn't be able to get a bank loan.

42:06Adam Schafer:You wouldn't be able to buy a property. The banks just say, no, we're going to lose money. And the banks, banks run everything, right? So that's how you do it. 20 foot sea level rise. Yeah. But when did they say the 20 foot sea level rise was going to happen? I think it was like 20.

42:17Sal Di Stefano:We already passed it.

42:18Adam Schafer:15 or something. Yeah, yeah. We had already passed it.

42:19Sal Di Stefano:I remember we had already passed the date and like none of that stuff.

42:23Justin Andrews:All you need is Sarah McLachlan and some polar bears and, you know, like shrinking icebergs. And then you have a thing.

42:32Adam Schafer:By the way, what this points to isn't that, you know, that we shouldn't worry about the environment. We shouldn't worry about keeping. That's not what we're saying. Well, let's just be consistent. What you need to be careful for is when politicians start to generate lots of fear around something. Yeah. because they're doing it for their goals. Yeah. And so I'm always skeptical.

42:56Justin Andrews:Like, wait, I'm a big nature person, and I'm always looking out for, like, companies dumping toxic shit. Well, what is one rocket trip up to space

43:05Sal Di Stefano:for the Uber rich or one private jet across? Well, the private jet stuff's crazy. Yeah, private jet to another country one time when it comes to carbon footprint. Like, that one trip is, you could do solar your whole life, and it wouldn't even negate.

43:20Adam Schafer:You could ride a horse your whole life and you wouldn't even cover it. That's why I used to love Leonardo DiCaprio, talking in different countries about this. It was like private jet, yacht, private jet, yacht. I'm like, damn, bro. You just did more than 1 ,000 people would do.

43:35Sal Di Stefano:That's why it's so dumb. I know.

43:38Adam Schafer:All right, I'm going to change subject here. Cratein. I love cratein. We're going to talk about cratein again. Have you seen the data on cratein? We've seen it with brain health, but have you seen it specifically with like, let me see I pulled it up here with brain like injury have you seen this not for injury it's like preventative or recovery yes bro people recover from concussions and brain injuries much faster when they're on creatine versus when they're not which is pretty incredible we should I should have known that. Yeah. So this was -

44:15Sal Di Stefano:Anxiety, recovery, build muscle, longevity. So I'll quote a row done on rats,

44:20Adam Schafer:but we've seen this in humans too.

44:21Sal Di Stefano:It's going to be in cereal in a couple of years. Just watch. I'm calling it. Actually, there might be creatine cereal already.

44:28Adam Schafer:So check this out. There was an open pilot study with children and adolescents 1 to 18 and creatine. It improved the duration of post-traumatic amnesia and intubation. The degree of disability and overall recovery improved. cognitive function, self-care, communication, locomotion, and social ability, reduced headaches, dizziness, and fatigue. No adverse effects at all. There was a study on rats where they gave them like a brain injury, essentially, 36 to 50 % reduced cortical damage because of creatine. And the process is it attenuates secondary injury mechanisms. So mitochondrial dysfunction, lactate accumulation, oxidative damage, and it improves outcomes in hypoxia models relevant to brain trauma.

45:13Adam Schafer:So it's not a cure-all, but if you're listening, you're a parent, and your kid plays a contact sport.

45:20Justin Andrews:Yeah, any high contact sport, yeah. Cratine.

45:23Adam Schafer:It's not just going to improve their performance. Preventatively, yeah, just keep it along. It'll help with their brain health. Isn't that cool? It is really cool. It's the best accidental thing I've ever done in my life. I took, because I wanted to get jacked. I've been taking it non-stop since I was 16.

45:34Sal Di Stefano:I mean, what do you think about that prediction, though? Creatine cereal. I think it's going to be everywhere, dude. Sure.

45:38Adam Schafer:I think it's going to be...

45:39Sal Di Stefano:You know what... The way you predicted protein years back, that that was going to be the next thing, and we saw it, we see it everywhere. Protein Doritos now. Protein Doritos. The most comical one of all of them. It has to be the most comical one I've seen yet. That's a new level. Have you seen anyone more funny than that? The protein Doritos? The protein Doritos?

45:54Adam Schafer:Oh, God. How much protein is in a protein Doritos?

45:56Sal Di Stefano:It's going to be like protein popcorn.

45:57Adam Schafer:Look it up, Doug. I actually haven't looked at the bag macros because I think that's hilarious. There's a protein shortage. You guys, I told you guys about this. said that yeah so how much protein is in protein doritos uh 10 grams per serving let me see what a serving is well i guess that's more than one it's probably a bag doug it's probably a small bag or whatever i'd be impressed if it's more than that yeah oh is it two servings in there or three

46:21Sal Di Stefano:one it's one i'm looking for the protein it's right there it's the nutrients i can see from

46:25Justin Andrews:here is this the right one though is that for protein not sure yeah well oh great i mean it

46:30Sal Di Stefano:That tells you the serving size at least.

46:31Adam Schafer:Yeah. I think it's for a small bag. Yeah, that's the wrong one. Yeah. Why don't you go back, Doug, and put in protein Doritos macros. Yeah. Okay. And then you can look at images and see for yourself. Nutrition facts. Here we are. And so I think what we're going to see. There we go. So 150 calories, 10 grams of protein.

46:52Sal Di Stefano:10 chips. What are the ingredients? Slide up, slide up, slide up. It says serving per bag. You need to read that.

46:57Justin Andrews:Yeah. It says seven servings per bag.

47:00Sal Di Stefano:That's a big bag.

47:01Adam Schafer:That's 10 chips. 10 chips. 10 chips. So one gram of protein per chip. That's okay. No, that's not right. That's what it says. What's the ingredients? I wonder where they get the protein from. Yeah, but Sal, that says seven servings. That would mean there's 70 grams of protein in that bag. It's the big bag. It's the big, big family bag is what they're talking about. Hey, all the meatheads listening right now. Yeah. I'm going to get a bag of two meat. 70 grams. I would have done that. I would have done that too. 18-year-old meat. You're throwing cheese on there. Yeah, dude. What are you eating over there?

47:31Adam Schafer:Chips. I wonder what the ingredients... It's probably pea protein. Or is it milk protein? Caseins, milk protein. Oh, it's got to be. Yeah, because it's nacho. Well, there you go, guys. Protein's in everything now.

47:44Sal Di Stefano:So 70 grams in the big... So what... Did you figure out the little bag, though? What's the little bag?

47:49Adam Schafer:I think probably one serving. It's 150 calories. It's probably one. Probably, yeah. Yeah, which isn't bad. I wonder what they taste like. If they taste good. You could try them. Yeah.

47:57Sal Di Stefano:I don't think you guys are reading it right now.

47:58Adam Schafer:Yeah. What's your favorite flavor? The experiment with that. Of Doritos. Are you cool? You like Cool Rancher?

48:02Justin Andrews:Nacho. Yeah, Nacho guy. Do you know what I tried? Oh, no, the taco. Have you ever tried that one? The roll? They're like rolled up? I don't know, but it's like a taco seasoning.

48:10Adam Schafer:Yeah, so there's one. They're like Doritos, but they're like little. Like the Taco Bell seasoning ones?

48:14Justin Andrews:Yeah, it's like, I don't know. All the bags that are coming up are the bigger bags. That's fine, Doug. Yeah. Well, it's supposed to taste like tacos.

48:24Sal Di Stefano:I was waiting for you to say some shit. I didn't do it because I always do it.

48:27Adam Schafer:I was just like, come on, bro. Who's going to slide in there if you give him a fucking jab, dude? No, I'm not going to do it.

48:32Justin Andrews:You should just call it doogleing.

48:35Adam Schafer:Doogle it. Hey, can you doogle that? Doogle it.

48:37Sal Di Stefano:Doogle it. Could you doogle it for a second?

48:40Adam Schafer:We're going to make that a thing now, dude. He's so bad right now. He's going to fight. That's it. You do this. Hey, speaking of retailers and stuff, do you know what I saw at BevMo? You know the store BevMo? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what they sell at the front? What? Z-Biotics. Oh, they're in there. They're in BevMo. Finally.

48:58Sal Di Stefano:I know.

48:58Justin Andrews:That is such an obvious yes, that you need to be there.

49:02Sal Di Stefano:Katrina connected them to a couple retail places and restaurants. Actually, I didn't tell you guys this. They reached back out to her. Yeah. Well, I mean, we had been kind of trying to do that for a long time and encouraging them to do that, and it just never happened. And I don't know if maybe it just – maybe because people weren't aware of the brand yet, and maybe there's more brand awareness. And so maybe these – You know what it is.

49:27Justin Andrews:I think they had their sights on these other products they were developing too. And I don't know. Like they weren't like spreading it into all the bars.

49:35Adam Schafer:So I go to BevMo. So 4th of July. So we're buying drinks for the party or whatever. And I see them. And next to them are other, you know, recovery type supplements for, you know, after you drink, right? The day over, the day after, do you want to feel better? And there was quite a few. There was like a couple like drink shots you could take and some pills. So I think this market exists. And I think the reason why Z-Biotics has taken so long is because it's so different. So I'm wondering if retailers are like, well, where do you have a couple of those things? They don't sell that well.

50:07Justin Andrews:Yeah.

50:08Adam Schafer:For people listening, Z-Biotics is way different.

50:12Justin Andrews:It works. There's no denying it.

50:14Adam Schafer:It is a probiotic that's genetically modified to actually break down acetaldehyde. So it's not like electrolytes and, oh, here's this herb that helps with inflammation. it actually reduces this byproduct of alcohol consumption it gets rid of it out of your gut so that it doesn't cause all these issues so my prediction with zbiotics is what's been happening it's going to be a slow grow yeah because people are going to try it and they're like you have to

50:40Justin Andrews:try it i know yeah to become a fan because it works yeah no if you're somebody who has any

50:45Sal Di Stefano:sort of side effects i feel like from drinking at all it's one of those things that it's like a must try because yeah it's it's changed my relationship with being able to drink which has been awesome that I can actually enjoy just a glass. 100%. I feel like I always had to have the weekend covered and I had the next day. Like, oh, tomorrow I'll get to sleep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Waste your next day. No, it's been super nice.

51:05Adam Schafer:I got a cool study for you, Justin, on explosive power. I'm going to see if I can find this. So I know you'll like this. I think I'm going to say diarrhea or something. No, not that kind of explosive. Good Lord. No, they did some brain stem on people and they found, and I got to look up this study. so they did brain stem and they stimulated parts of the brain that control like motor function just by doing that they improved explosive uh power so no additional exercise no nothing else it was just that and they improved their yeah improved their power output i can't find the study uh but it makes sense the central nervous system yeah what did they do so again they did some brain stem maybe doug you just from the stem though like doug look up a brain stimulation and athletic power.

51:51Adam Schafer:Did that just help the recruitment process? Yes. Like heightened it? That's right. Okay. That's right. Isn't that cool? That's wild, yeah. You know what's cool about that?

51:59Justin Andrews:Okay, so I just immediately assumed somebody's going to try and develop a product out of this. Yeah, dude. Right? Like some kind of helmet or something you wear pre-game.

52:09Sal Di Stefano:It's a non-invasive

52:10Adam Schafer:brain stimulation.

52:11Sal Di Stefano:So non-invasive brain stimulation looks different than like e-stim stuff. It's not on the muscles. It's on the skull. Yeah, but even that it's different though, right? It's instead of like, isn't this like what Ben Greenfield used to do where you have to do like exercises where you have to like, oh, it's not like that. No, it's literally. Where you're changing brain waves. It's literally activating these parts of your brain. It's actually pulsating. Yeah, maybe Doug,

52:31Adam Schafer:just type in non-invasive brain stimulation and click on images because I want to see what this looks like. Yeah. But. So it is like an e-stem. Bro, this is cool because you get a device like this, it actually works. Yeah. Anyway, it's not going to compare to exercise and all that stuff for everybody, but it does something. Imagine right before a game. Well, that's what I'm thinking. 15 minutes.

52:49Justin Andrews:Yes, exactly. I'm like some kind of like a pregame like hat helmet thing that you wear. There it is. It uses magnets.

52:56Sal Di Stefano:Look at that. Imagine too how I could it. Well, that's kind of ridiculous though right there. No, I think they have.

53:01Justin Andrews:I think it's all going to look ridiculous until it becomes a commercial model.

53:05Sal Di Stefano:Well, you know what I think of right away. We talked about this just recently. What's the number one reason for injury? Oh, it's a lack of sleep. Lack of sleep. Why does lack of sleep affect that? CNS. CNS. It interrupts So if I had a poor night's sleep and I'm a pro athlete and I'm getting ready to go play my sport like that. Take creatine, do that.

53:22Justin Andrews:Creatine and that, yeah, right.

53:23Sal Di Stefano:That's like being really interesting to see how that could help mitigate that potential. That's what comes to mind right away when I see that.

53:33Adam Schafer:That is really cool. I'm assuming that there's going to be some commercial devices, if there aren't already, that you could kind of play with. But think about that. Like you're going to go hit a PR, put on your whatever hat, turn it on, wait 15 minutes, go hit your PR.

53:46Justin Andrews:Because Halo, remember that product that it was like headphones and it kind of stemmed your brain, but it wasn't the stem. It was a different part of the brain.

53:56Adam Schafer:Doug, maybe look that up again and say products.

53:59Sal Di Stefano:The Warriors were using Halo for a while there. I wonder if they still do or not. When it was first out, it was an interesting product. Yeah, I was wondering.

54:07Justin Andrews:But again, I haven't heard about it since, and I don't know if it really took off. There you go. Looks like you could buy some.

54:12Sal Di Stefano:I don't know how effective those are. I like the thing that Tom Bilyeu had us wear that one time.

54:17Adam Schafer:Oh, they're only$4 ,000,$5 ,000. Holy cow. Is that what that costs? No. $1 ,200,$1 ,700,$5 ,000. Then all of a sudden there's a$300 one. Yeah. Well, if that really - Plugs that go up your nose. The T-Mew.

54:29Sal Di Stefano:Like this one might give you cancer, but it's only$3.9.

54:32Adam Schafer:You're going to perform.

54:33Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

54:34Adam Schafer:High levels. You have to shake your head. Yeah. You have to shake your head. So it produces, it uses external electrical currents, magnetic fields, or ultrasound to safely modulate neural activity without surgery. these devices are utilized across both clinical settings like major depression ocd yeah and oh that's interesting reason wellness yeah transcranial magnetic stimulation that's the

54:54Justin Andrews:one that i was familiar with transcranial magnetic stimulation which is wow they're

54:59Adam Schafer:they're used to treat conditions like major depressive disorder ocd and smoking addiction huh well that's interesting yeah we're gonna get weird still yeah in the next 20 years they're

55:09Justin Andrews:finding so much so much about the brain it's just like there's so much we don't know by the way

55:14Sal Di Stefano:whenever i see stuff like this too and especially i mean the audience can't see what we're looking at but i just how how accurate sci-fi movies got some things i know yeah you know what i'm saying like some of this stuff was like that's why i'm so into it i'm like yeah what do you know what it looks like something you saw in a sci-fi movie 30 years ago yeah you know it kind of looks like

55:32Adam Schafer:what what's his name having uh back to the future when he answers the door yes yes totally it's a

55:37Justin Andrews:It is this big old, like huge halo as it turns out.

55:41Adam Schafer:You know what movie trips me out? Because I know we're going to be able to do this at one point. I know it. What? But it's crazy. Do you guys remember one of my favorite movies when I was a kid was Total Recall? Yes. With Arnold. Yeah. And in that movie, if you haven't watched it, Total Recall, there's like this company that sells vacations. Oh, yeah, yeah. And experiences. But it's cheaper because you don't actually have, you don't actually go on vacation. you sit in this machine and it gives you the memory develop the memory of it so literally injects the memory or whatever into your mind and then you're like wow that was a great you know but you sent you spent you know way less because you sat you know why i'm gonna be able to do that you

56:17Sal Di Stefano:know why we are not only going to be able to do that but it will actually make it into production and we people will do it for sure because i've watched the positive it has on like depression and stuff like that You Somebody, somebody, you put in all...

56:30Adam Schafer:So we, they've been able to, they think erase memories in animals. So now it's like, hey man, I had a traumatic childhood. We're going to just make that go away. Yeah. Get in our machine. That's not going to be misused at all.

56:44Sal Di Stefano:That's... Yeah, yeah. Which was the other, Men in Black pretty much had that. Yeah, the Neuralizer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Men in Black version of that. We called that, yeah. What, what move, when you think back, Total Recall, all these sci-fi movies, who had it most accurate? Maybe Star Wars, bro. No, we haven't got there. Huh? What are you talking about, bro? Your boy Elon, you just, what are you talking about? Yeah. I mean, SpaceX is one step away from Star Wars.

57:08Justin Andrews:I mean, with all the stuff with Palantir, I mean, I think that they pretty much nailed that. Who was? Predictive, like pre-crime.

57:16Sal Di Stefano:Oh, like, oh.

57:17Justin Andrews:Minority. Minority report. I think in the way that they use technology with, like, gesturing, that is the thing, too, that hasn't really took off yet, but I think it will in the future. I think there's going to be a lot less physical. It'll be more gesturing.

57:31Sal Di Stefano:I used to think Player One, but you know what's crazy? We were so heavy talking about this just two years ago or a year and a half ago, whatever it was, this whole virtual reality, people are going to be plugged in. It really fell out of favor quick.

57:47Adam Schafer:It causes vertigo and business and stuff.

57:50Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, like Oculus and everyone got all excited about it. It felt like we were making really fast progress. It felt like, oh, man, overnight we're going to be in player one. It's fun, though.

58:01Justin Andrews:I mean, I got into it for a minute, but yeah, because after a while, there's fatigue.

58:07Adam Schafer:The movie that I believe spoke best to the future of AI was Her. Have you guys seen Her? Yeah. The Joaquin Phoenix? Yeah. I thought that was a pretty interesting take. We're kind of there already, though. We are.

58:18Sal Di Stefano:I mean, you already have these.

58:20Adam Schafer:But the part of it that made me go, oh, I could see this happening. Typically AI movies are like, oh, no, the AI takes over and destroys everyone. This AI was like, hey, listen, I want to go disappear into the internet and just do my own thing. So I'm going to take off now. And that's all they did.

58:33Justin Andrews:Well, like right now, I just saw an interview with like Tony Robbins. He was talking about like his AI agent that he has. And his AI agent was notifying him and was like, hey, I would like to purchase this like robot vessel, like a robot dog. in order to program it for myself so I could use it. And so he was talking about this with this guy that was predicting a lot of what AI was going to become. And so I guess that agent was part of that whole MaltBot website where they socially interact and they have all these ideas. And so he actually, the agent bought it and purchased it themselves, didn't use any of Tony's money from his bank account, like purchased this dog had it shipped to his address and is already working on programming so it can uh that's not scary i was like whoa that's already happening like that's trippy

59:32Adam Schafer:yeah you guys talking sci-fi the one movie that comes to mind this isn't going to happen but this one movie that comes to mind in my opinion one of the best sci-fi movies ever made with one of the greatest twists ever planet of the apes original oh yeah one of the greatest twists of any movie ever at the end where you're just like what yeah what's going on what about soylent green

59:58Sal Di Stefano:yeah that one got me i don't know star wars dude i'm starting to feel star wars right now with spacex and going that direction all right now you think like elon's gonna dominate it all from the us but what happens when it becomes like a country thing and it becomes all that and then we got all these i think do satellites and rockets does a better job just give me a lightsaber dude and

1:00:14Justin Andrews:I'll be happy about that.

1:00:15Sal Di Stefano:Oh, you think Dune does a better job than Star Wars? You know why?

1:00:17Adam Schafer:Because Dune is so far in the future.

1:00:19Justin Andrews:Star Wars ripped off of Dune. I hate to say that as a huge fan, but it totally did.

1:00:22Sal Di Stefano:Oh, wait a second. Dune came first. Yeah. I did not know that. Uh-huh. Dune is older than Star Wars?

1:00:28Justin Andrews:Uh-huh. Yeah. Really?

1:00:30Sal Di Stefano:So is Foundation.

1:00:32Justin Andrews:So is Foundation and Dune. Now the nerds are going to go crazy with this. But yeah, it's like he pulled a lot from those books.

1:00:39Sal Di Stefano:I did not know that the original Dune was before Star Wars.

1:00:43Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:00:44Sal Di Stefano:How close, Justin, are they? 1960s. Holy crap. The original was 1960s? Yeah.

1:00:50Justin Andrews:There's some really wild ideas in there, too.

1:00:53Sal Di Stefano:Star Wars totally bit off of that.

1:00:55Adam Schafer:I actually thought it was the other way around. I did not know that.

1:00:58Justin Andrews:No.

1:00:58Adam Schafer:It's because Dune made a movie that sucked first.

1:01:01Justin Andrews:Well, George Lucas wanted to make Flash Gordon. He was really inspired by that and then tried to get the rights for it and everything. And so anyway, he, through his whole process, had to like make other movies to then create Star Wars. But yeah, pulled a lot from all these different sci-fi stories. The first movie of Dune was in the 70s, I think. I think 80s, yeah.

1:01:24Sal Di Stefano:So, well, if it was 80s, then Star Wars was 70s. The movie Star Wars came first. So the book Dune came first. That's right. Then Star Wars. 84 was when. Oh, so that's why it feels like that. Yeah, I know. Yeah, the movie came out. And 1984 Dune sucked. It was terrible. It wasn't good. Yeah, but even that, though, that came after Star Wars. So Star Wars actually, so in other words, George Lucas probably read Dune. Of course. And then that inspired some of the storyline. I did not know that. For sure. I didn't know that.

1:01:52Justin Andrews:Well, that and Joseph Campbell, I mean, he was really pulled a lot from all those myths and stuff. Whatever. I still think it's one of the best. You're going to pull from ideas that already exist, so you put it together and it was one of the best.

1:02:05Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I mean, that's not taking anything away from Star Wars. But I just assumed that they were actually more original, and so many people have taken from them. I didn't know that technically Dune was first. That's interesting. Yep. Star Wars sucks. Hey. Oh, cut that out.

1:02:23Adam Schafer:Sorry. Unacceptable. I'm just kidding. Unacceptable. I'm just kidding. That's funny. What is ButcherBox? So it's better meat for a better you, and it's convenience. Look, ButcherBox delivers grass-fed meat, heritage pork, crepe-free chicken, wild-caught fish to your door at great prices. If you like to eat protein, if you want a better fatty acid profile like you get from grass-fed meat, if you like to eat healthy and you like to eat healthy consistently, but you also like to save money, ButcherBox is the best. I've been with them for years. every month I get my box with my favorite cuts of meat and that's how I meal prep my day I got my meat, I cook it, throw some carbs and some vegetables I got myself a healthy diet go check them out, go to butcherbox.com slash mindpump and on that link you get your choice of free ribeyes included for a year or free ground beef or chicken breast in your box for life for free, plus$20 off it's butcherbox.com slash mindpump, alright here comes the show our first caller is derek from california hey welcome back dude what's happening man hey guys thank you for having me back on you got it dude give us an update yeah when i last

1:03:42Justin Andrews:called you guys advised me to eat 2900 calories get 7 000 steps a day and do maps anabolic since i knew i was coming back on i made sure that i followed everything you said the hardest part for me actually was getting the steps and there were definitely times when i had to do some late night walks, you know, just to get it in, but I made, I did it. Um, I ended up gaining another five pounds, which seems kind of crazy because that had been hard for me to gain weight earlier. Uh, I think maybe it might've been the change in programming and also being consistent with getting my calories and protein.

1:04:16Justin Andrews:Um, when I called last time I was trying to get 3 ,400 calories, but when I wouldn't track, I think I actually ate a lot less and probably didn't get enough protein because I don't naturally want to eat that much. Also, according to my scale, my body fat percentage actually increased from 18 to 19. I did include some pictures this time. So I don't know, maybe you can tell me if it looks like I have 19%. It could be, you know, the inaccurate smart scale, which we talked about. My other thought, though, is that I might be eating too much fat. I hadn't really been paying attention to that before, just calories and protein.

1:04:55Justin Andrews:But I looked at my fat intake before this call and I realized I've been eating an average of 120 grams of fat per day. But I just I do find it hard to get enough protein without getting too much fat and making sure that I'm eating enough calories overall. But aside from the fact that, you know, I still don't feel like I'm close to having abs. I'm actually very happy with how things are going. I'm getting stronger and I suppose that's my main goal. We talked about this last time, but I feel overall really good and really healthy. And I know that's like the most important thing. I did have a couple of lifting goals for this year.

1:05:33Justin Andrews:I wanted to be able to bench press my body weight and squat 225. And I already was able to do both of those and we're only halfway through the year. So it's been cool to see the progress there. But I mean, that's pretty much my update. I do have a few questions, but I don't know if you guys want.

1:05:47Sal Di Stefano:Well, we're looking at your photos right now and it's super clear your chest your arms your shoulders your legs all got built you built you built for sure it's been 60 days since you did this right so

1:05:59Adam Schafer:five pounds on the scale one percent body fat up uh which tells me most of that was muscle by the way the scale the the margin of error is like four percent okay how was your strength uh over the last 60 days what changes if any did we see um well i mean i i just know i've been able to

1:06:18Justin Andrews:go up it's been a little bit different because of you know doing maps anabolic versus what i was doing before so i'm not like the programming is different so i'm not it's not exactly um a one-to-one comparison but you know i know that i've been able to gain strength especially like in my squats and

1:06:36Adam Schafer:bench press good good if you had to estimate how much weight would you say you've added to

1:06:40Justin Andrews:to both of those um the bench press like 30 pounds holy cow yeah maybe like 20 i don't know

1:06:49Sal Di Stefano:holy cow yeah yeah no he looks like that's a big deal so you've gained a lot of muscle

1:06:53Adam Schafer:yeah you've gained a lot of muscle great in a in 60 days in 60 days uh being consistent with all that stuff so what are your questions what do you want to do um well i guess you know i'm not worried

1:07:05Justin Andrews:about my weight increasing um but i didn't know like if there should be a cap on that um you know if my body fat i guess as long as the body fat percentage doesn't keep going up like does it matter you know if it's just muscle or should it be like all right once i get to a certain weight like i you know try to keep it that way it matters at a certain point uh but

1:07:28Adam Schafer:there's a couple things you could do you're so you're sitting at 2900 calories still yeah you You could stay at 2 ,900 calories and keep strength training properly. Keep going. And you'll probably see some body comp changes, especially with the muscle gain.

1:07:42Justin Andrews:How's your appetite been? It's good. I mean, I feel like eating 2 ,900 is definitely easier than eating 3 ,400. But I don't necessarily feel hungry after 2 ,900. I just feel good. But if I eat less, then I'm still hungry.

1:07:57Adam Schafer:Yeah, you're in a good place. Yeah, so I would say you could just stay at 2 ,900, stay consistent, keep doing what you're doing and you'll have some body comp changes you can also cut your calories you can bring them down to like 2300 and you'll see some fat loss uh but uh and maybe to

1:08:11Sal Di Stefano:the tune of like four percent i wouldn't do that just because you're you're seeing such great strength games i don't think it's good i'd keep i'd keep leaning into the building muscle it's very clear you built chest and shoulders arms like i mean you can see it in your before and

1:08:25Adam Schafer:after i also want to point out something else that the that this happens quite often where people track, but because they're not consistent with their tracking, their estimates are off. And this is super common. Like this is like everybody. So when you were eating 3 ,400 calories before, I don't think you were always averaging, like you said, 3 ,400 calories because you went down 500 and gained five pounds, uh, on the scale. So you were probably on average lower than 2 ,900 calories or right around that, that, that number that you're at now. Uh, so I just want to point that out because that happens to a lot of people.

1:09:00Adam Schafer:They're like, I'm eating this much, but this is happening. It's okay. When we track consistently, what we find is actually a lot different. And the average person is off by 30, 40 % with their numbers. And people who know what they're doing are typically off by 20%.

1:09:12Sal Di Stefano:I think you're in a really good place calorie and training wise and step wise. I just kind of keep you there and let the programming do the rest. Because just running through the program and then switching to a new program is just going to show you continued strength gains and results. And over time, what will happen is you'll end up building so much muscle, it speeds metabolism up and you'll get leaner.

1:09:32Adam Schafer:Yeah. So I'm not worried about your fat intake. You're hitting your protein. I'm not worried about fat intake unless you have like, um, you know, you get a blood test and your lipids are off. Uh, sometimes that happens to some people in which case we would look at the type of fat that you're consuming. But if your lipids are fine. Uh, 120 grams of fat's totally fine.

1:09:51Justin Andrews:Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it's mostly, I mean, it's fat from like eat like beef or, you know, I like it for some people that's totally fine.

1:10:00Adam Schafer:There's a, there's a, there is a percentage of people that that can cause blood lipid numbers to be a bit off. And then we would switch where you get your fats from. But in my experience, most people, if they're exercising, eating a whole food diet, you know, otherwise healthy, it's not an issue. Okay.

1:10:15Sal Di Stefano:You said the 7 ,000 steps you said can be difficult for you sometimes. I can't remember what you did for work. Are you pretty sedentary throughout the day outside of that?

1:10:23Justin Andrews:Yeah. Yeah, I think last time you asked me how many steps, I said 5 ,000. I know I was tracking, but I wasn't really paying that much attention to it. It's just on my watch. I think it was less than that, actually. When I look back, it was probably more like 35, 4 ,000. That's the average person right there.

1:10:40Adam Schafer:I mean, what phase of anabolic are you in phase three?

1:10:44Justin Andrews:I just finished phase three.

1:10:46Adam Schafer:Okay, so you're done with the program. Yeah. All right, we can put you on another program. Put them on one of the splits. Yeah, and let's keep going. PPL or upper lower. Are you okay working out four days a week instead of three? Yeah, that's what I was doing before. All right, you want to try upper lower? That's a four-day split.

1:11:03Justin Andrews:I love that. Okay. I was going to ask about that too, like where you think I should go from here.

1:11:09Sal Di Stefano:Keep your calories right where they're at. Follow upper lower. If you do anything different, try and keep your steps over 7 ,000. just be active walking try to make an effort on the weekends when you do have days off or being really conscious of consistently staying up there trying to get to that kind of 10 ,000 mark would be a good goal because just to add extra activity following a new program, holding the calories there I think you'll lean out and continue to kind of build muscle totally

1:11:36Justin Andrews:okay cool thank you and then after what did you say up or lower is it recommended is just kind of keep cycling?

1:11:46Sal Di Stefano:Probably go to Symmetry. It has some unilateral work. Just since those are very bodybuilder and strength-focused programs, it'd be good for you. We always recommend once a year running through either a performance type of program, MAPS performance, or running through a MAPS Symmetry where we address kind of unilateral, different planes of motion. I think that would be good for you. And then you could go back to those programs.

1:12:09Justin Andrews:Okay, thank you. I know sometimes on your podcast, you guys talk about you know different like variations or things to do is that something more for experienced lifters like would you recommend like just you know someone like me like kind of sticking with a program for a while before trying new things if you follow uh maps

1:12:28Adam Schafer:programs and you switch programs after you complete one and you inject something like symmetry or performance you know uh every six months or a year you're you're fine yeah you just follow our

1:12:39Justin Andrews:programs you're set it depends on you want like if you want to just stay in a kind of an aesthetic focus and like that's what you'd like to do that would be like the the majority of what you'd go back and and uh you know and go through the programming wise but we're just saying to interrupt that uh otherwise i i see no problem with you trying like a variation of any of these different types of programs we have to offer so you know you could you could even do old time strength you You could get crazy and experiment. You just follow our programs. Yeah. That's it. We have it all laid out. But yeah, if you're somebody that wants to maintain a certain physique.

1:13:13Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. If you're really focused on strength and aesthetics, staying in a maps and a ball, upper, lower type of split, especially if the three, four-day routine kind of works really well for you, you can stay in that pretty indefinitely and just interrupt once a year, run either symmetry or run performance. That's it. But you could cycle through those two programs if that's your main thing. If you like strength, I want to look good. That's the main thing. then the symmetry and or the performance will address any sort of imbalances and keep you to where you're not just become the stiff little bodybuilder where you can only move in one plane.

1:13:46Sal Di Stefano:That'll do you well. Take you a long way. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Great job, dude. Great job. We're going to send upper lower to you, Derek, all right? All right. That sounds great. Hi, bro. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

1:14:01Justin Andrews:Recording.

1:14:03Adam Schafer:Yeah. So what's really good about this, and I like that this happened for the average person watching, this happens a lot. And this is why oftentimes you'll hear fitness influencers communicate to this, although I don't appreciate how they do it. I think it's valuable that they communicate this way. But what often happens is a client will say, here's my calories, here's my macros, I don't know what's going on. And then when you actually track diligently, they're off. And that's what happened here. The majority of the time. Now, influencers like to communicate to people how much they're lying, and your metabolism can't slow down, and you can't speed it, and they go too far.

1:14:40Adam Schafer:But this is often the case. This is the case with fitness fanatics who know what's in food. I ask the mate all the time. They want to actually count, I'm off every time. So I think that's just a nice example of that.

1:14:53Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, no, and even on the step, too, on activity. A lot of you look at your watch once or twice, and you realize, oh, I do 7 ,000. And like, I must do that every day. And it's like, oh, no, that was like a really active day. What does a really low day and an average day look like? And then when you look out the total average, you're like, oh, I was walking a lot less than what I thought I was. And so, yeah, no, this is super common. This is also why I think there's tons of value in everybody going through at least a phase of their life, whether it's, you know, a 60-day run at it or whatever, where they track everything really.

1:15:24Sal Di Stefano:Just the education piece. Trying to be dialed as much as you can. Yeah, just to at least get an idea of your behaviors. and become aware of that because of that exact reason is most people over underestimate on activity and food.

1:15:37Justin Andrews:Our next caller is Beth from Georgia.

1:15:40Sal Di Stefano:Hi, Beth. How you doing, Beth?

1:15:42Justin Andrews:Hey, guys. How are you all?

1:15:43Adam Schafer:Good. How can we help you?

1:15:45Justin Andrews:Well, I will just start by reading my email so I don't ramble.

1:15:49Adam Schafer:Okay.

1:15:49Justin Andrews:My name is Beth. I've been listening to Mind Pump for at least four years, every episode. I bought several of your programs. I really love them. It's been really nice to follow a great program versus coming up with my own stuff, which I did for many years. I feel stronger than ever. I've really maintained my weight and muscle mass. So thank you. I appreciate it. Here's a little more about me. I'm a 59-year-old married mom of three grown boys and live to tell about it, as you guys can relate. I have struggled with some disordered eating in the past. but happy to say I'm eating a lot. I probably have the healthiest relationship with food I've had in quite some time.

1:16:35Justin Andrews:I'm 5 '3", about 107 pounds. My last DEXA scan said I was at like 20.5 % body fat, a little different than those in-body scans that they do in the office. The DEXAs are way more accurate. I've been working out consistently for about 35 plus years, very committed. I actually work for an NFL team, so my job can be pretty high stress. I travel with the team, so we have some long days, seven days a week. I can return from a crazy road trip at, you know, middle of the night or whatnot, but really have a couple questions. So I don't have any like specific goals right now, and I'm not sure what might make sense right now for me.

1:17:23Justin Andrews:Like At 59, what would you guys recommend as a realistic goal for me at this age or stage in my life? All right.

1:17:31Adam Schafer:Good question. So what would improve the quality of your life?

1:17:36Justin Andrews:Probably reducing stress to some extent. But I don't know if you can see in my email. I exercise quite a bit every day.

1:17:45Adam Schafer:Okay. So when someone says they want to reduce stress, there's a couple directions we can go with that. One is to change the stress that you have. So a good example is like, I'm in an abusive relationship. I'll leave that relationship and that stress is gone. Sometimes that can't happen because the stress is not necessarily bad. Like it's a job, you enjoy it. It's just high demand. Or you got a lot of kids or you just got a busy life. And so you're like, look, these aren't really stresses I can turn off because they're not bad. They're just stressed. They're a lot of work. it sounds like you're the second one.

1:18:23Yes.

1:18:24Justin Andrews:Is that correct? Agreed.

1:18:24Adam Schafer:Okay. So then the answer is to become more resilient. And so then the goal with exercise and nutrition is to increase the resilience of your body so that those, so that those stresses don't feel so stressful. So that they don't cause as much of what could feel like at times and be overwhelming stress or like it's kind of burning me out type of deal. Does that make sense?

1:18:48Justin Andrews:Yes.

1:18:48Adam Schafer:Okay. Okay. For someone like, and this is different from person to person. So this is, could be very different, uh, advice for someone else, but someone like you as consistent as you are with your exercise and your past with nutrition and all that stuff. Uh, it's, it's a kind of a simple way to increase your resilience, but it might be difficult for you to make these changes. So one of them, um, is with your, with your exercise and activity, I would reduce the amount of intense exercise that you do because it is another stress. Now, the challenge with that, and you just correct me if I'm wrong, Beth, is that for someone like you, you're like, but that's all stress relief.

1:19:27Adam Schafer:Like working out hard is stress relief. Okay. But it's not contributing to resilience. So what we would want to do is -

1:19:35Sal Di Stefano:It's a stress on the body still.

1:19:36Adam Schafer:It's a stress on the body still.

1:19:37Sal Di Stefano:Even if it helps with the mental stress from the work and all the things like that, it's still stress on the body.

1:19:41Adam Schafer:So in the moment, you're like, man, this feels good, but it's actually reducing your resilience for the other kinds of stress that you have in your life because it still requires recovery and all that stuff. And so it would look like less of the intense workouts. And there's a few places I think we can make some changes. Power yoga is a good example. Yoga can be recuperative. Power yoga is not. Power yoga is typically a workout. So that's one way. The other way would be to look at your strength training and would be to switch from three full body workout days to something like a MAPS 15 style workout program.

1:20:21Adam Schafer:So that would be the other option. Nutrition-wise, this is going to be difficult, Beth. You need to gain weight.

1:20:30Yeah.

1:20:32Adam Schafer:You're sitting at too lean of a body fat. Yeah.

1:20:35Sal Di Stefano:And just so you know. For resiliency, that is. Yeah. Not for look awesome abs in a bikini and get on stage. I mean, you look amazing. Don't worry about that.

1:20:46Justin Andrews:I'm doing that anytime soon at 59.

1:20:48Sal Di Stefano:Well, you look great. You look ripped.

1:20:51Adam Schafer:And I would say that the 20%, although the DEXA says 20, the in-body says 14, I can see the striations in your delts. You're very, very lean. And body fat does provide a certain level of resilience to both men and women. And so you're walking around at a body fat percentage that kind of red lines you. It's like you're maintaining a stage ready body fat percentage all the time. And that's okay for short periods of time. But all the time, it reduces your resilience. It reduces resilience to things like illness, stress, how your body responds to hormones, all that stuff. And so you would need to gain weight.

1:21:31Adam Schafer:And I'd like to see you gain like a few percent body fat. You won't look, you'd look great still, but by eating more and letting your body fat percentage go up and changing the intensity of workouts, you're just going to notice way more vibrance and energy and resilience from doing those things.

1:21:47Justin Andrews:What program do you think? I've done, I really like Muscle Mommy. I've done Anabolic. And I know you're saying Matt's 15. I do tend, sometimes with my travel and whatnot, the season's getting ready to kick off here shortly, so it gets a little crazy. The math 15, like getting in the gym every single day is challenging. Skip it. Combining the two days, you know, and going every other.

1:22:11Sal Di Stefano:Someone like you, Beth, I would put you on math 15 muscle mommy. And when you can't get to the gym, I'd say, so what?

1:22:18Adam Schafer:And then you just pick that.

1:22:19Sal Di Stefano:I'd say, so what? Enjoy the work day and do what you do best at your job. You're active, you're healthy, you're fit. And if you've been listening for four years, you've heard us talk about the study of how much you have to lift in order to maintain versus to gain and build. You have built an amazing physique. You have built a tremendous amount of muscle. You are healthy. You are strong or plenty. You missing two to three workouts here or there ain't a big deal at all.

1:22:46Adam Schafer:Actually, what'll happen, Beth, is if you increase your calories with the intent of gaining a little bit of body fat, you go down to MAPS 15 muscle mommy, skip the workouts you can't make, just pick right back up where you left off, you're going to get stronger. you're actually going to see progress is what's going to happen on top of feeling more resilient energy and all that stuff

1:23:08Sal Di Stefano:alright I'll give that a shot Beth are you already on hormone replacement

1:23:14Justin Andrews:yep

1:23:17Sal Di Stefano:awesome

1:23:19Adam Schafer:so let's do this Beth because I would love to have you back on because I know what's going to happen if you do what we say it's going to blow your mind do you know by the way how many calories you're eating a day and all that?

1:23:31Justin Andrews:I don't. I really only kind of track protein.

1:23:34Adam Schafer:That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. That's great. I'm going to assume that you generally eat the same kind of stuff most days, like most fitness people do. Okay. I do. Okay. So add an extra 300 calorie meal. So something that's like small, got some protein in it. It could be a smoothie if you want, or it could be like another small meal. Add 300 calorie meal. do maps 15 muscle mommy i'd like to see you in 60 days and i bet you're going to come back and be like i did not realize that this would happen another way to give her maps 15 uh performance

1:24:08Justin Andrews:as well i just feel like i have it oh you do i was gonna ask like what is the difference between like the maps 15 and performance well just uh more emphasis on on different planes of motion just because if you're doing this consistently and you're pretty dialed in already um you know to expose your joints to, to all those different like ranges of motion, uh, and to, you know, bulletproof a lot of the shoulders, the hips, the ankles. And so a lot of that kind of takes care of itself instead of having to then focus on mobility to address any kind of pain and stiffness you might get from training, uh, as frequently as you do.

1:24:43Justin Andrews:So it's one of those things to preventively get ahead of it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

1:24:48Adam Schafer:Yeah. So either one would be fine, but I'll send you 15 muscle mommy if you don't have it.

1:24:52Sal Di Stefano:Beth, I have that too. Oh, good. Beth, what's your three most consistent meats that you eat? Are you a meat eater?

1:24:59Justin Andrews:Yeah, yeah.

1:25:00Sal Di Stefano:What are your three?

1:25:01Justin Andrews:I would say chicken and beef and fish.

1:25:06Sal Di Stefano:Okay, perfect. So another way to do what Sal's leaning towards with the 200-300 calories is, are you a chicken breast or chicken thigh girl?

1:25:15Justin Andrews:I'll do both. Because of y 'all, I've kind of intro'd chicken thighs more.

1:25:19Sal Di Stefano:Yes, yeah. I would push you there. I'd push you in the thighs. The beef, I'd get the higher fat beef and fish. I'd go more salmon and things that are – so just what – it's easier for someone who's already got a very consistent way of eating. Sometimes it's difficult to inject another meal for them. They find that difficult to be consistent is choose fattier cuts and or add olive oil or butter to those meals.

1:25:41Adam Schafer:Yeah, so you're just upping the calories.

1:25:43Sal Di Stefano:So you're literally doing kind of the same thing, but you're intentionally adding an extra 100 calories or so per meal in your meats, making them fattier cuts or cooking them in an olive oil or a butter. And it's an easy way to just bump those up without having to go out of your way to get an extra meal. That's another way to do it.

1:26:02Adam Schafer:By the way, with your DEXA scan, do you remember what your bone density showed? I don't. Okay. I would just take a look at it. Just make sure it's good.

1:26:11Justin Andrews:I'm going to do one again here when the season kicks off. I kind of do them at the beginning of each.

1:26:16Adam Schafer:But yeah, like I said, if you eat more to kind of gain a little bit and you follow less intense strength training, like a 15 program, in 60 days what I would bet is that you're going to come back and be like, I'm stronger. I feel better. And you might be shocked. Like, I did not realize my body would respond this way. And it will. It will. Awesome.

1:26:38Justin Andrews:Can I ask one more quick question? Yeah, let's go. um okay rest periods between sets can you do like some ab work

1:26:48Sal Di Stefano:no no you're not allowed to you're not allowed to you should be trying to rest for three minutes yeah yeah go put push three minutes glad you asked that i'm glad you asked that because that

1:26:58Adam Schafer:probably tells me you like to keep it moving you know beth this you're an avid there's this is an avatar of a type of person that we've worked with many many times so i could i would have guessed that you have trouble sitting still in between. Oh, yeah.

1:27:12Justin Andrews:My walking pad at work.

1:27:14Sal Di Stefano:You're on the go. So, yeah, we definitely should follow up because I feel like I don't want to give too much to rip from you and then you bail on us because there's a lot of things that I would like to adjust over time with you because you're doing plenty of activity and you need more rest and you need more calories. And I know that's a lot to ask just the first, you know.

1:27:34Adam Schafer:60 days. You're a disciplined person. You can do it for 60 days. It's going to blow your mind.

1:27:39Justin Andrews:The big question is, what NFL team do you work for?

1:27:42Sal Di Stefano:Falcons. Oh, Falcons. How long have you been? Tell me what you do. I'm curious.

1:27:46Justin Andrews:12 years. I'm actually the assistant to our CEO. Oh, wow.

1:27:51Sal Di Stefano:Cool. What a cool job.

1:27:53Justin Andrews:You know, master of, or what is it they say? Master of none. Jack of all trades, master of none. So I do a little bit of everything.

1:28:01Sal Di Stefano:How fun. That's great. How fun. Has it been with the Falcons the entire time?

1:28:05Justin Andrews:It has.

1:28:06Sal Di Stefano:Very cool.

1:28:07Justin Andrews:So y 'all need to become Falcons fans.

1:28:09Sal Di Stefano:Hey, when they're not playing the Niners, I'll shoot.

1:28:12Justin Andrews:Okay, we'll pick you up on that.

1:28:14Sal Di Stefano:Awesome. Very cool, Beth. Beth, we'll see you in 60 days. Yeah, we'll follow you in 60 days.

1:28:18Justin Andrews:Thank you, guys. All right. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Let's do it. Bye.

1:28:21Adam Schafer:Bye-bye.

1:28:23Justin Andrews:Recording stop.

1:28:24Adam Schafer:We've done such a, I say we, I say media, right? Fitness media has done such a terrible job of advertising what is actually a healthy body fat percentage. Because shredded looks cool.

1:28:37Justin Andrews:I know

1:28:37Adam Schafer:but shredded is almost never ideal regardless of fitness level you talk about resilience especially as you get older

1:28:45Sal Di Stefano:I want to see the bone density test so do I I'm glad you asked and I hope she looks into that and Beth when you listen to this that's a good goal so whatever that comes back let's improve that and the way you improve that will be by gaining weight, gaining muscle and so So whatever the bone density comes back, we can still improve it. And especially if it's low. If it's low, then it's not a we should do, you need to do. But I think no matter what, that's a good goal.

1:29:18Adam Schafer:Totally. But we communicate like getting leaner because everybody's so overfat. But when you look at the data, especially as you get older, being too lean is really bad for longevity and health. And it does a lot of nasty things. Especially fitness finance. I got to shred it all the time.

1:29:34Sal Di Stefano:And like you said, I think there's value in periods of time allowing yourself to look shredded and be the way, but you don't live there. No.

1:29:42Adam Schafer:And for a woman, most women, being fit, your optimal body fat percentage is in the low to mid-20s. Yeah, 20s. Not 20 or what I think by looking at her is I think she's below 20. It doesn't matter to me what the scale says. When I can see striations on a woman's delts, I'm like, you're probably too lean, especially if you walk around like that all the time. Yeah. Our next caller is Liz from Ohio.

1:30:05Justin Andrews:Hi, Liz. How you doing, Liz? Hey. This is awesome, guys. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Thank you. How can we help you? Let's go. All right. I'm going to read my question. I've adapted it a little bit because a few things have changed since I submitted it, but generally it's the same. So today's my birthday. So that's when I'm 49 today. All right. And so I have a long history of being very cardio focused, but I've become a lot more focused on strength in the past like four years. I've done several MAPS programs and I'm a regular listener to the show. I lift at home, focusing on compound movements about four to five days per week, about 40 minutes or so each time.

1:30:43Justin Andrews:So I also aim for 8 ,000 steps per day. I consistently hit and exceed my protein goal of 135 per day and currently weigh 135 at 5 '7". My calorie intake is around 2 ,300. So last week, I completed a six-day bike trip across Ohio. In preparation, I rode with my biking friend about 20 to 40 miles once or twice a week while continuing to strength train. I try to eat significantly more calories on those long ride days, 1 ,100 or so, in addition to my usual 2 ,300. Even though the trip is over, I still anticipate doing regular long bike rides throughout the summer into the fall. So I feel like this is like you guys have been a great help to me.

1:31:24Justin Andrews:I feel like I'm finally kind of managing my body well. I feel like I am getting stronger. The bike trip would probably be considered a cardio activity, but the strength that I've built in my legs just made a huge difference. We had to deal with some hills. I felt strong and capable. And then I also recently did my first pull-up, which I've never been able to do in my life. So that was a good thing. So here's my question. I feel like I'm looking a little thin and I'm interested in putting on some weight and more muscle. Like it's crazy for me to even say those words. I've never had this problem before.

1:31:59Justin Andrews:So I listened to your podcast a while back about adding five pounds of muscle in 30 days. And I was kind of wondering what kinds of foods I should be adding and about what my calorie intake should be. I recently tried to go up to 2 ,500 calories per day with 150 grams of protein. but I really have a hard time eating that much food on most days. I also wonder if it makes any sense to drop my step count or activity level so that the calories are saved for muscle building. I'm not really sure if I understand if that would work or if that makes sense. Again, that sounds like a crazy question to me.

1:32:38Justin Andrews:And then I don't want to stop the biking. I really enjoy that. So that's something I really want to have part of my life. So the whole thing about eating extra on those days, does that make sense so that I can keep from losing more weight?

1:32:51Adam Schafer:Liz, good job. Yeah, you're doing great. You're doing a great job. So here's the one thing I would change because eating the extra calories on those ride days makes a lot of sense. It's actually great. That's a great strategy. The only thing I would change is this. When you're doing the rides, so when you're going through a season where you're like, okay, I'm going to train for this ride that I'm going to do. This is where you add your one or two days a week of the long rides. You got to strength train way less on those weeks. Okay. So don't maintain your current level of strength training and then just slap on top of it bike riding.

1:33:22Adam Schafer:Got it. That's a mistake a lot of people make. Back way off on the strength training while you're doing the riding. And the idea is to maintain strength while building endurance for the cycling. And you can do that with once a week of strength training. I know that sounds crazy, but what you'll find is your performance in the cycling will go up much faster.

1:33:43Sal Di Stefano:Another way to do it would be maps 15 and the days that you ride don't do any lifting. So you just skip those days of maps 15. Yeah.

1:33:49Justin Andrews:So generally I would not, the days for the long rides, I would not do any strength training. Like the trip is over now. So like the long, the long, long rides will be done. So it's really more kind of a once a week, maybe once every other week thing at this point. So now that the ride, the big trip is over, I'd like to shift more into the focus on, on the strength training. I actually, the first program I did was maps 15. So it's awesome.

1:34:13Adam Schafer:Nice. Yeah. So I would, I mean, gaining weight is as simple as I'd back off a little on the volume of training and I'd increase your calories. Now the calories. Yeah. And I get that you're, you're full and satisfied. And so, uh, it's going to take a little, because you are trying to force a little bit of a change in your body. There's going to be a little bit of a challenge there. A couple easy ways to do it. You can add something that's more palatable or you could try liquid calories, which is an easier way to add 300, a smoothie. A lot of people find that much easier to add to their daily intake.

1:34:48Adam Schafer:And I would go more like on a MAPS, maybe anabolic style program or even a PPL kind of program while doing that. But even if you didn't change your strength training, even if you kept it the way it was, if you went up 300 to 400 calories, I think you would start to see the. Yeah, I like around 15.

1:35:06Sal Di Stefano:I think adding more volume with struggling to eat more calories would be not the way to go. I'm curious what your steps are at right now since you did ask that. You did ask the question about potentially reducing that.

1:35:16Justin Andrews:Yeah, so I try. I have actually cut it back since I sent the initial question in. But generally around 8 ,000 is what I try to get. So I usually do. And that's like, I'm not running. It's really just straight walks. I walk in the morning and that's something I enjoy, but I can cut that back. No, no, no, no.

1:35:37Sal Di Stefano:I went to the reason why I asked was just to see if you had like an abnormal amount. Like if you, cause I didn't ask if you would have said I get 20 ,000 and I have a walking desk and I would go, okay, let's cause that we just got off a call like that. So that's, that's sometimes common. and somebody is like going out of their way to get 20 ,000 steps. And then I'd say, oh yeah, let's cut your steps way in half. And that'll help. But if you're 8 ,000 and that's your lifestyle and you enjoy, I would never take that away from you. I think that's important. You keep that.

1:36:06Adam Schafer:And adding three to five, you know, 400 calories can be as easy as adding olive oil or butter. Higher fat meats. Yeah. Make your meat cuts fattier or an avocado and just do it consistently. I don't think you need to bump your protein. you're at 130 grams and your body weight's probably around there. I'm assuming.

1:36:24Justin Andrews:Yeah. I'm at 135.

1:36:25Adam Schafer:Yeah. You don't need to bump your protein.

1:36:27Sal Di Stefano:I mean, you can do that too. I mean, I love literally what he just said. Avocado, olive oil, butter, higher fat meats. So every meal that you normally have, think of those four things. Like what would I normally do right here? Oh, I would normally have chicken breast. I'm going to go chicken thighs. Oh, what would I normally do? I'd have filet mignon. I'm going to go a ribeye right here. Oh, you know what?

1:36:42Justin Andrews:That sounds delightful.

1:36:43Sal Di Stefano:Right. I'm just going to add a half avocado or an avocado to that meal. Like that to me, that's just an easy way to get that extra three, 400 calories is every meal that you already kind of normally think of those four things, which one of those compliments that meal well.

1:36:57Adam Schafer:And then when you get back to the cycling, when that gets back in your routine, you're just doing one full body workout a week. You know, even if I'm only cycling once a week. Yep. Yep. You can even do like nothing. No, it does seem like nothing, but you're going to put all your energy and performance into the cycling. Yeah. Okay. And that once a week is going to preserve muscle. Yeah. So the mistake people make when they're training for something, they're like, okay, I need more stamina for this particular event. I'm also going to build strength at the same time. Now you're burning the candle at both ends.

1:37:31Adam Schafer:So what you want to do is say, okay, I've built all the strength. I want to keep it while I build endurance. And once a week is enough to, not just enough, that's ideal to maintain as much strength as possible while you're pushing endurance and stamina. Okay.

1:37:47Justin Andrews:So, so now that this trip is over and I do think I am in a position to kind of shift over and not, you know, make the bike rides a little more casual, not so long, that kind of thing. I would like to focus a little bit more on strength with kind of doing that, you know, so make, make the focus strength and the biking and stamina kind of.

1:38:06Sal Di Stefano:I would stick with the MAPS 15 protocol until you prove to yourself that eating the extra calories is doing good and you start to see yourself go up in strength. And then I would maybe move to what Sal was suggesting earlier, which is like a split like you talked about.

1:38:19Adam Schafer:Or MAPS Muscle Mommy. Do you have that program?

1:38:21Justin Andrews:I don't, no.

1:38:22Adam Schafer:I like that program for you.

1:38:23Justin Andrews:How many days a week is that one?

1:38:25Adam Schafer:Three. Okay. If you're not doing any crazy cycling right now, you can go to Muscle Mommy and bump your calories and you'll see some strength gains and muscle gains.

1:38:32Justin Andrews:Yeah, I'd be curious about that. I was curious about the new one too, because it, um, the upper, the upper lower, because that's sort of, that's similar to kind of what I'm already doing four days a week, roughly and not quite as long seems to fit into my lifestyle.

1:38:47Adam Schafer:It's going to be more volume than what you're probably doing, but I think muscle mommy would be more appropriate.

1:38:52Justin Andrews:Okay.

1:38:52Adam Schafer:Yeah. Yeah. And keep this in mind. Muscle is a slow thing to add. Right. And so my, I think what's going to happen, you're going to add 300 calories, which isn't a lot. You're going to see some strength gains. and you might go up a pound or two on the scale, which is great. Yeah, that's fine. And it might require you doing another calorie bump. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, because as you build muscle, I mean, it's really crazy how the metabolism starts.

1:39:15Sal Di Stefano:If you, because right now it's been hard to eat the calories, but what might happen - Appetite goes up. Appetite goes up. And so listen to that. If the appetite goes up, that's a good sign, especially if you've done it through eating good whole foods, a new training program. If you feel hungry, I would encourage you to eat. Yeah. Just eat another one of the meals that you already consistently eat.

1:39:34Adam Schafer:And you're in such a good place by everything that you're saying and how you did a pull-up and you're getting stronger and doing well. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up somewhere around 2 ,800 calories, 2 ,900 calories, and that was where you ate, where you lived, and just felt your best. Yeah.

1:39:48Justin Andrews:Boy, that's insane. I know. I really just can't believe how different things are as far as just understanding better how to build muscle and not worry so much about a number on a scale. And I mean, I used to run like crazy and I always said, I loved it. Now I look back and like, did I actually love it? Or did I just love the idea of loving it?

1:40:08Sal Di Stefano:I love that you say that and admit that because so many people don't say that and admit that.

1:40:12Justin Andrews:And that is so, you know, there's, there was some sort of badge of honor in doing the hard thing, but you know, it's hard to stay healthy and not get injured. And I just feel like I'm enjoying things so much more. I can't tell you what a difference, the strength of my legs made last week. I was, it was amazing. It was really just amazing considering, you know, yeah, what I would have done in the past is I would have just biked like crazy, like several days a week to get ready for that trip. And I really only biked the once or twice and then just kept trying to get stronger. And that's awesome.

1:40:43Justin Andrews:I think it was huge. That's great. So good. Yeah, great job. So good. That's awesome. Awesome. So I have a funny story to tell you. I was telling my daughter, I have a 19-year-old daughter, and I was telling her how thankful I am that the message is a little bit more for girls about getting stronger as opposed to just getting skinny. And I was telling her how thankful I was for that. And one day we're walking up the stairs and she's behind me and she's like, Mom, have you been squatting? Your butt's getting really big. I thought to myself, man, compliments have really changed. In a good way. I'm thankful that she's not growing up with the messaging I grew up with.

1:41:21Justin Andrews:And I think she's going to be all the better for it. And I do think you guys have made a big impact in that regard for women in particular. So I'm very thankful for that. Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:41:33Sal Di Stefano:Great job. Thank you.

1:41:34Justin Andrews:Thank you guys. Appreciate it.

1:41:36Sal Di Stefano:Keep it up.

1:41:37Justin Andrews:All right.

1:41:38Adam Schafer:What a great message. Yeah. Yeah. Great call. What she's saying is true. The messaging is changing a lot to young women. It doesn't mean it's not going to get distorted and twisted because it always does, but it's a lot better than what it was. But to hear how great she's progressing, what she's eating, I mean, bumping her calories is what's going to do it. And she's going to feel amazing doing it.

1:42:00Sal Di Stefano:I love to hear her say that and admit that too because I can't tell you how many people I've looked in the eyes and they're telling me.

1:42:08Adam Schafer:I love it.

1:42:09Sal Di Stefano:It's like, no, you don't.

1:42:11Adam Schafer:I love my circuit training. I love my beat up classes. I love my bootcamp.

1:42:15Sal Di Stefano:You've convinced yourself that, but if you're completely conflicts with the goals and the things that you truly want, and there's a better way, you know, our next caller is Kimberly from

1:42:26Adam Schafer:Minnesota. Hi, Kimberly. How can we help you?

1:42:31Justin Andrews:Um, well, I'm calling in, I have a question. Um, basically been using programs for five years. First of all, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate getting to actually have feedback from you personally. um I've been using anabolic performance symmetry muscle mommy maps 40 plus the 15s um and I wanted to start PPL and I'm also a professor so I have off in the summer and I really like to run in the summer and so I was starting my program and I just didn't quite know what to do with how to incorporate some running in with the PPL and then I remembered listening to one of your episodes where you talked about possibly alternating weeks back and forth.

1:43:12Justin Andrews:Um, so I just kind of wanted to hear what your thoughts are on what would be the best way to incorporate some running into PPL, I guess, either way.

1:43:24Sal Di Stefano:Give us an idea of what, uh, what, what type of running, like how much running are we doing? Uh, would you like to do?

1:43:30Justin Andrews:And then, um, so I sign up for like a 10 mile race, like every fall just to kind of keep myself, um, kind of in shape. And so like I'll throw in a three to four mile run on like a Tuesday, Thursday, I'll do some tempo runs or some speed or hill work. And then usually on like a Sunday, I'll try to do the long run, like increase my mileage by like a mile every week kind of throughout the summer. So that's where I'm at.

1:43:54Adam Schafer:Okay. So you're doing that now, right? So three, three runs a week, one kind of long one tempo and then run really long. Yeah. Okay. And you're going to be doing that now until when?

1:44:06Justin Andrews:Until about September. I start teaching again in September, so it gets kind of busy. So I kind of taper off.

1:44:11Adam Schafer:Awesome. And this is for a competition?

1:44:14Justin Andrews:Yeah. I mean, it's like a 10-mile road race. It's not like anything big deal, but I'm 45. Oh, that's cool.

1:44:21Adam Schafer:And that's a good distance. Yeah. So the way you would strength train while following that running schedule would be more like MAPS 15. so PPL is a little it's too much volume for all of that so you're not going to get the same performance gains in your run or in the strength training because it's a lot now you can do the alternate thing where you run one week lift one week and that's totally up to how you feel about that and it's also up to how your skill in running is so sometimes people need to practice running frequently because of the skill of it other times people are like no my skill is good and I would prefer to do a week of lifting and then a week of running.

1:44:59Adam Schafer:Um, so it really depends on, on, on you. Like, how do you feel about, about something like that? Would you prefer to continue to practice the running on a weekly basis?

1:45:07Justin Andrews:Um, I'm former like college cross country runner. I've run like four marathons. And so running for me is more like I pick it back up. Like I can just like run three miles, like getting on a bike, you know, when you have that kind of memory, like your body just kind of goes back to it. So it's not like a necessarily like practice of running. Um, so I don't know. Yeah, the alternate.

1:45:27Adam Schafer:Sounds pretty good. Then alternate.

1:45:28Sal Di Stefano:So one week PPL, one week you just do the runs.

1:45:31Justin Andrews:I'm curious how that works for you.

1:45:32Sal Di Stefano:I mean, it would be a fun experiment, but don't feel like you have to stick with it if you don't like it. So that's all I would say with that. I think either one is fine. I think if you were going to do running every week, it would be MAPS 15, like Sal said, or run PPL and then go run and then run on the opposite. So either way is fine, but that would be kind of the two options. If it's conducive to your lifestyle to do that and you like it, then run it that way. Otherwise, I'd go the other direction.

1:45:57Adam Schafer:And what you would pay attention to is improvements in performance. So when you get back to the running, oh my God, am I faster? Do I feel better? What it allows you to do is push the intensity on both. So the week that's just strength training, well, I'm focused on strength training. The week that's not running, I'm just running. And so you kind of push the intensity a little bit. And so some people like that. And what we've seen in certain studies, and again, it depends on who we're talking about, is more better improvements in both when you alternate.

1:46:28Justin Andrews:Okay. But I have a second part to my question. Is that okay? Yeah. So kind of leading into that, I know that running isn't good for fat loss. I've listened to you guys for like five years. So I got that down. So what I'm thinking about is my body type, I'm more of an athletic body type. And so I feel like I'm very like heavy on top. so when I lift and I know you can't get bulky from lifting you've said this before but I just feel bulky on top and my I tend to lean out in the bottom like my legs and my hips I don't gain weight there and so when I do lift heavy I feel really strong I'm strong in my lifts I feel good about that but I just always feel so bulky on top is there a way like a program or a different way of lifting or is that just kind of genetics and I have to deal with PPL has a women's version where

1:47:23Adam Schafer:there's more volume for the lower body than the upper body. Okay.

1:47:26Justin Andrews:So I'm using that right now. And I'm in, um, week phase two, I'm just starting phase two this week. Okay.

1:47:33Adam Schafer:So you continue to follow that. And if you want to take it a step further, you would cut the sets from the upper body even more and add a little bit more to the lower body.

1:47:42Sal Di Stefano:You've been, you've been listening, you said for four or five years yes have you heard me have you heard me uh tell katrina's story

1:47:50Justin Andrews:of like yes and i identified with this and i'm struggling because i know like it's a little bit of body fat probably and that's like the last place i lose body fat but i just have never been able to find like the right formula okay so you you that's i'm glad you've heard that so i don't

1:48:06Sal Di Stefano:have to tell the whole story all over again um because your story resonates with me because is that it sounds like her. She's got an athletic body. She has kind of a wider back. She was a basketball player. And she had the most amazing legs. They stayed lean all the time. But then her upper body, she just never felt like, she always felt boxy. She hated that. It would bother her like crazy. She loved to run. That was always her way of kind of staying in shape as a basketball player. When she put on a couple of pounds, she'd go start doing the hill runs like crazy. She'd lose those 10. But yet she never could get this body.

1:48:38Sal Di Stefano:Until she finally trusted me to like, just allow me to bodybuild you for a little while and we're going to abandon this running as your way of getting in and out of shape and losing your five or ten pounds you want do you trust me and it took us years before this i think we're three five years into our relationship before i finally got the reins and i put her on a proper bulk of building muscle and just said you got to trust me we're going to build we're going to build we're going to build your metabolism up and we're going to do through strength training we're not running at all you're allowed to walk we could do those things like that.

1:49:09Sal Di Stefano:But I put her on a true reverse diet in bulk. And I got her all the way up to 2 ,900, 3 ,000 calories from just lifting weights and building muscle. And then I cut her and we leaned out. And when she leaned out, she finally had brought her waist in. Her back looked different than she'd ever looked. Her arms in short. For the first time ever, she felt like, I have this physique. And that's when she let go of running. That woman has not ever ran again, other than to maybe play some basketball with my son and kids and stuff like that. She does not ever do it again because she realized how easy it was for her to just lift weights and maintain this physique that she wanted.

1:49:45Sal Di Stefano:And she kept going back in the past to the running to get there. If that resonates with you, that is probably what you need to do if that's what you're looking for aesthetically. If you're looking for trying to build that, then I would recommend like a true bodybuilder type of reverse diet and build muscle, build the metabolism up and then a true cut and not using running as the method of trying to lean out, but to let your metabolism do that, hang on to that muscle you build, bring that waistline in. And so that would be my recommendation. Now I know how difficult it is because I was married to the woman who had the trainer at her disposal and still didn't use him.

1:50:21Sal Di Stefano:So if, if you, if that resonates with you, you, you think, you know, you do it, but you know how difficult the psychological piece is. Then I just recommend getting a coach to that process.

1:50:30Justin Andrews:Okay.

1:50:30Sal Di Stefano:Probably what I need. It would be a very well investment for you to have somebody take you through that because that's what she had to do. She had to let go of the reins and say, okay, I trust you. I've watched you do it before my eyes now so many times. It blows me away how I watch you just morph and change your body. I want that. And I say, okay, then you have to do what I say and just trust me. And then I forever had her bought it. And so if that's you, then it would be total worthwhile investment to have someone take you through that one full cycle. And it'd probably take a good solid minimum six to nine months of coaching with somebody to really take you through that process.

1:51:08Sal Di Stefano:But then once you got that in your back pocket, and that doesn't mean you never have to run. You can still run if you want to and you love to and you have a competition you want. But you can also control your body the way you want as far as the aesthetic piece. And you know what to do to get both.

1:51:24Justin Andrews:I think that exactly sounds like me. You know, what do I say? Maybe I struggle because, like, what do I ask coach for then?

1:51:31Sal Di Stefano:when I you you express what we just talked about right now and they'll they'll take care of the rest convey it too like that's right yeah you you uh and all of our our coaches are not only trained by us they were all they all listen to every episode and they know the story of Katrina and so they're trust me you just tell them that like I resonate with Adam's wife and her story and basketball and not being and have feeling like I have a boxy upper body and and I know what I need so they'll they'll take you through everything yeah yeah yeah so if you want uh when we hang up, I'll have someone call you and they can kind of go through all that with you.

1:52:04Sal Di Stefano:That would be my recommendation.

1:52:06Justin Andrews:Yeah, that'd be great. Cool.

1:52:07Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, let's do that. Excited for you. Alright, we'll see you in there.

1:52:10Justin Andrews:Thank you.

1:52:11Sal Di Stefano:Bye.

1:52:14Adam Schafer:By the way, athletic body fat storage in women looks like that. Yeah. And that's not because sports makes you store body fat that way. It's because you're genetically...

1:52:24Sal Di Stefano:That's what makes you good at sports. Yeah, storing body fat

1:52:26Adam Schafer:in the lower half is not good for sports but this is how women tend to store body fat but then you notice with athletes i couldn't help it i'm listening to the way she talked about the running i'm listening and i'm

1:52:36Sal Di Stefano:like she's oh ex-athlete i'm like this sounds just like katrina and how katrina felt about her body she would always she had the most lean defined legs all the time just amazing but her upper body she just felt and then she she would start to lift weights for a while and then she'd get off because because she'd feel like she got boxier and she'd be like that's not like i already feel boxy it's making me boxier and so and that's and i just had to wait until she came to me and i said okay this is what we need to do we're going to drop all this running and we are going to literally body build i'm going to build your i'm going to build your upper body and we're going to reverse diet and then we're going to come back down and we're not doing it and we're not going to come down through running where you lose a bunch of that muscle that we just gained we're going to keep those great delts that i built on you and those lats that i built on you and we're going to lean out nicely through diet, and you're going to see your waist come in, and then you're going to see this body you like.

1:53:27Sal Di Stefano:And sure as shit, she never strapped up them shoes again.

1:53:32Adam Schafer:Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media.

1:53:35Justin Andrews:Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

1:54:17Justin Andrews:The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.