2906: Should You Bulk or Cut First | The Answer That Actually Leads to Long Term Results

20:21Adam Schafer:So in other words, if I'm eating 1 ,500 calories a day, and that's a cut for me, and I'm moving a lot, my body is trying really hard. It is using all of its adaptive abilities to try to learn how to burn 1 ,500 calories a day. That's what it's trying to do. Because if it doesn't do that, you're going to die eventually. If 1 ,500 calories remains a deficit forever, at some point you'll die because you're not, 1 ,500 calories is not meeting your energy demands. So your body doesn't do that, right? It doesn't just sit there with 3 ,000 calorie energy demands and 1 ,500 calorie intake. It learns how to burn 1 ,500 calories.

20:57Adam Schafer:One of the ways it does this is it pairs muscle down. So what you do when you go into a cut first is you're literally saying this to your body. Hey, can you get a slower metabolism? I know you got a slow metabolism right now, but I'd like a slower. Let's make this way harder. Here's how we're, let's make this way harder. And that's, I'm going to lose some weight, but I'm going to make it impossible to maintain later on because I'd like a metabolism that's so slow that if I eat anything other than salad, or I take a day off of doing cardio, I end up gaining body fat. So I'd love that frustration.

21:28Adam Schafer:Can you please slow my metabolism down? That's what you're doing when you go into the gym that way versus I'm going to set this up the right way. I'm going to get my metabolic rate to hum so that later on when I do the cut, oh, I got some room. And again, just to encourage people again, we worked with people for decades. And now here at Mind Pump, we have clients that work with our trainers. Routinely, it's okay. So I'm not like, this is not pie in the sky. Routinely, we see people boosting their metabolic rates by 700, 800 calories a day. All day. Okay. That's routinely. In some cases, it's extreme in the other direction.

22:01Adam Schafer:In some cases, it's a little less. but routinely seven to 800 calories a day through this process. Do you know how much cardio you have to do to burn 700 to 800 calories? Hour plus every day. You got to, you got to go for it for an hour or more. And then your body learns how to burn less calories on that as well. And it stops working. How would you like to have a metabolic rate that allows you to burn 800 more calories without a bunch of extra work? And that's why you go into it and you build first. A hundred percent.

22:29Sal Di Stefano:The crazy part going back to doing it the right way, right? reverse dieting, building muscle, is the psychological challenge. Because logically, it's so obvious to your point about all the other things that we're so unaware of. Like if you blindfold someone or you gave the example of, oh, this person's libido got better, their sleep got better, their strength got better, their energy got better, their skin got better, their hair got better, like their mood got better, like all these things. They had to drink less caffeine. like all these things that are like what you tend to see when somebody starts to fuel their body properly, okay?

23:05Sal Di Stefano:Give them the protein they need, the healthy fats, adequate amount of calories for the exercise that they're doing. You typically see almost all those markers. You see everything get better. All those markers move in the positive direction. None of them go down. Right out the gates. Yes, like almost right away. But like because we're so hyper-focused on the mirror and the scale, if those don't give me back the feedback I want, I just totally disregard or don't even pay attention to that, which is crazy because there's so many other markers that signal to you you're going about this the right way.

23:38Sal Di Stefano:Like you're doing good. Yes, the mirror isn't showing what you want yet. Yes, the scale hasn't shown what you want. But all these other things are pointing that we're moving in the right direction. Yet people will course correct. they'll go but these two aren't showing me what I want so I'm going to cut the calories now or this isn't working for me

23:58Adam Schafer:they ignore it so much that their energy is crap their strength is crap they feel like crap the scale is going down so I must be doing the right stuff which is wild you know again this is connected because it was inspired by that post there was an Instagram post with a young woman named Kimberly which you had encouraged me to kind of respond to and you know when I watched it I thought the same thing you did which is you're going to get a bunch of fitness people. So for people listening, this woman gets on. She has a lot of weight to lose, and she talks about how difficult it is and how she's working out, and it's so hard, and it sucks.

24:34Adam Schafer:And she's like, it's tough. It's really hard. But I saw this clip, and I'm like, oh, I guarantee a bunch of fitness people are going to get on and just communicate the wrong stuff. They're just going to talk to the wrong stuff. You've got to have discipline. You've got to do this. and just communicating the wrong stuff to people who are in that position. I can always tell by the way somebody talks, if a fitness person speaks to something like that, I can always tell if they have experience training a lot of people or they don't. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because if you have no experience - It shows right away.

25:06Adam Schafer:Yeah, you're going to talk like you're talking to yourself. And you can be super knowledgeable and science-based,

25:10Sal Di Stefano:which is what we have in Instagram world, right? We have a lot of smart people that are fresh out of their degrees or they have multiple national certifications. or they follow the other influencers that are very science-based. And so they understand the science. They understand the math of losing 200 pounds. And they understand how important discipline is. And so this is what they communicate. And yeah, the difference between that person. And I sent it over because I knew that it was going to attract a lot of that. And I knew that you would communicate it so much better. And I wanted to be ahead of it before.

25:45Adam Schafer:Well, what I saw on that video was, yeah, her workout methods weren't the best. She was doing kind of like what looked like maybe like group class type fitness. It's activity, so it's not bad. High intensity. But I'm not going to speak to that right off the gates. Let's talk about the big thing that was more important, which is this poor woman hates it. Yeah, she hates it. She hates it. That's her perception of working out. So that's the thing I'm going to speak to because I know this as a trainer. we're not even going to talk about what you're doing yet we need to talk about how much you hate this because I don't care what you do, I don't care how effective it is even though her workout was not the best if I gave her the most effective workout of all time and she hated it it ain't going to happen.

26:29Adam Schafer:You're still going to fail it's still punishment at that point that's right and we got to speak to that and a good coach would and if Kimberly's listening you work with a good coach your success rate will go through the roof you don't work with a good coach If you work with like a boot camp instructor or somebody's going to throw exercise at you or just yell motivation at you, it's - Or somebody who is just - Success will be temporary.

26:51Sal Di Stefano:Or even if you have someone good in your corner who understands the science and spitting all the most knowledgeable stuff out at you, it's more complicated than that. It's not just that. There's other factors to consider. Yep. And number one being your relationship with that exercise. Totally. You know, we have to fix that first and build that before we - Which is doable. Before we even attempt the best whatever, you know, the best diet, the best fill in the blank, we have to first work on that. And that becomes a priority over what is the best workout or diet for you. And so, and to your point, a good coach understands this.

27:31Sal Di Stefano:That's what a good coach does.

27:32Adam Schafer:Yeah. Totally. Anyway, I want to talk about probiotics because I've been making this prediction now probably for the last year. Is this sports performance aging? It's going to be, yeah. good probiotics like high quality probiotic like seed we work with seed they're easily the world's best like not even close they're cutting edge their technology with how they deliver the probiotic like it's the best right I believe probiotics in the next five years are going to be the performance enhancing supplement that's recommended like it's going to be like the way you know creatine was talked about for athletic performance like you want to lose fat take a probiotic you want to build muscle take a probiotic.

28:11Adam Schafer:You want to recover faster, take a probiotic.

28:13Sal Di Stefano:Do you think this has to do more with what we're learning about the gut and the cutting edge science? The gut-brain relationship? Or more to do with how terrible the American diet is and how bad we all are that everybody is going to positively benefit for something like that. Which one do you think is the greater factor here?

28:32Adam Schafer:So let me see what you're saying. You get where I'm going. Yeah, I do. Let's use creatine as an example, right? Like, do we have benefits from creatine because we should be eating five pounds of meat? Or do we get benefits from creatine because nobody's eating five pounds of meat, but supplementing extra seems to provide benefits. In other words, are we getting benefits from the probiotics because we have low quality food?

28:55Sal Di Stefano:Like we're deficient in nutrients.

28:57Adam Schafer:We're deficient in fermented foods.

28:59Sal Di Stefano:Almost everybody has some sort of an intolerance to something.

29:02Adam Schafer:Or would you, no matter what, benefit from the probiotic? Yeah. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is to that. But the data is compelling, bro. There's meta analysis on -

29:14Sal Di Stefano:Because they've been around for a long time, Sal. Right? I mean, I don't know when probiotics first came on the market, but they've been around for a long time. They have.

29:22Adam Schafer:They've been pretty bad in the past, but they were better than nothing.

29:24Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

29:25Adam Schafer:But it's just wild because I pulled up like, bro, there's a lot of data. It's greater weight loss, reduced waist circumference, decreased visceral fat, benefits to exercise performance, like vo2 max um it's people gain less fat and a high calorie diet when they take probiotics then you have strength gains uh you you have uh more muscle uh lose more fat than a placebo from probiotics wow yeah dude so i think people i think that the everything just works better it seems like it's this i i think it's going to be the supplement that athletes uh talk about the most over the next five years. It's like, take your probiotic.

30:04Adam Schafer:I mean, you still talk - Not just for gut health, but just for all the things.

30:06Sal Di Stefano:You still talk to some of our pro bodybuilder buddies and stuff like that. Do you know if it's made its way into that space where that's become part of their - Their regimen as hell with supplementing and stuff like that. I wonder if that's become - I'm so disconnected from that, like all the coaches.

30:23Adam Schafer:So I know pro bodybuilders take probiotics for digestive health because of the way that they feed themselves. Right. So I know that's popular. but I don't know if they're taking it for like muscle gain and fat loss. Yeah. You know, so I'm not sure.

30:36Sal Di Stefano:It'd be interesting. In the,

30:37Adam Schafer:in the arsenal of things bodybuilders use, I don't think probiotics really count.

30:41Sal Di Stefano:I mean, listen though, that it doesn't matter. You know, those guys will even if it's like everything. Yeah. I don't care if it moves the needle, the smallest amount there, they're, they're taking it all, doing it all. So it'd be interesting to see. I'll have to, I'll have to make some calls and ask around. It's been so long. So I talked to some of those guys,

30:56Adam Schafer:but I think it's going to be like the next five years, they're going to just, They're going to push it just for fitness. Forget health. Forget skin health. No, build muscle, burn body fat, probiotic. Let's go.

31:06Sal Di Stefano:Well, speaking of performance and stuff like that, did you guys watch the fights? Yeah. Did you get a chance? So we got to see Gable Stevens in his fight. That was great. Dude, he's going to be a beast. He's a monster in the making. He is going to be a beast, bro. To see a world-class wrestler go in and throw hands and win like that makes you good. And him being that big. Yeah, John Jones' corner. Yeah. I mean, I actually want to see him wrestle somebody. It's like, I feel like that was in his bag. He had that all, if he wanted it, it was just like, but I'm going to go out there and go throw hands.

31:42Didn't he, that one guy that's like a YouTuber, that's like, he will just wrestle anybody, and he's really good at it.

31:48Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He wrestled him recently, and Gable, like. Yeah, yeah. Did one of those, I don't know what you call that, like hip toss or whatever. Basically, yeah, like pinned him. Justin sent it over. You didn't see it? No, I didn't watch it. Oh, yeah, he got him good.

32:00Adam Schafer:And I've seen him on a string of just taking everybody out. People don't realize the level of athlete and performance a world-class wrestler is. Gold medal. I mean, you're talking about, like, you could have three regular dudes go against him in wrestling. All three of them, he would throw them around. Yeah, it's silly. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. To teach him how to punch wouldn't be that hard, I guess.

32:24Sal Di Stefano:I mean, we had an opportunity to go to that, right? Was that the fight? Yeah, that was the fight that we had a ticket for. So Ketona IQ is sponsored by. And they invited us. And they invited us to go to that. But I tell you what, I would have been so pissed if I was there and the Conor fight went down like that. Oh, man. Because you're waiting all night long. Talk about the biggest. As much as all the other fights were great. They were good fights. But you're waiting for Conor's return. And that had to have been one of the biggest. I was so excited for it. Let down main events I've ever seen. Yeah.

32:58Sal Di Stefano:I can't remember a main event where I was going to let down. Can you imagine if that would have happened, the White House card? Oh, God. For everybody watching. Yeah, so I guess they at least had the most epic card with that and then follow up. It's kind of hard to follow up something that was like one of the best of all time. It's funny you say that because there was a lot of – I remember when I was watching Shaub do some commentary back – this was like earlier in the year about when that first got released at the White House. And there was a lot of talk of like, you got to have Conor on that card.

33:27Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. He's the main draw. They were mad that they didn't bring him on there. And they were mad. I wonder how much Dana knew that this could happen and didn't want to risk that like that. Because, I mean, there was a lot of controversy. Five years of him. There was a lot of controversy. Yeah, five years since he fought. That's a long time. There was a lot of controversy around the way the White House card was built, that it was going to be whack. And it turned out to be one of the greatest cards ever.

33:50Adam Schafer:How old was Conor and who he fight?

33:54Sal Di Stefano:Hallway.

33:55Adam Schafer:He's like 37 or 38, I think. Are they in the late 30s? Yeah. Yeah, see, I was talking to my wife about this. People don't realize, well, it's at that level, right? Hallway's like 32 or something.

34:04Sal Di Stefano:When you're at that level. He's late 30s too.

34:06Adam Schafer:I think he's 35 and 38. When you're at that level, you've been fighting for a while already. There's a big difference when you get to the late 30s and start to get to 40. Big difference in your resilience. And so when they bring back old fighters who were popular, it's almost always disappointing. I'm trying to think of a time it wasn't. So 37, oh, 34 Holloway. But Holloway's been fighting for so long.

34:27Sal Di Stefano:So 34 years old. He had to get a five-year break either. Yeah. I mean, that's the other part too. And Connor was admitted partying and living up the life.

34:38Adam Schafer:Plus the damage you get from fighting.

34:40Sal Di Stefano:Like somebody who is playing at that high. He's a wild fighter. Obviously, MMA is up there with the most elite sports, like physically what you need to be at, right? Football and basketball, fighting, all those are all elite sports physically you need to be. To be in your late 30s, the amount of discipline, when you look at the people that have done this, like the Tom Brady's, the LeBron James, the Steph Curry's, the amount of money and dedication and discipline those athletes have put around recovery and taking care of their bodies consistently all through their 20s and 30s to be able to say I've played into my 40s.

35:20Adam Schafer:Games evolved a bit too. Yeah, yeah. You also are looking at, look, football is a good example. So Brady was a quarterback. Yeah. Okay. The amount of head blows he got is significantly less than other positions, right? As a quarterback, you're not getting blasted like you are a lineman or lineman. Yeah, unless you're Steve Young, but yeah. Yeah. So my point with that is, as a fighter, your time span is, if you're a guy that goes in the ring and just throws punches and gets hit. Yeah. Like, that's really taken away your ability to fight long term. Like, I don't necessarily – do you see football players that last a long time that are like linemen or – you don't, right?

35:57Adam Schafer:Because I think they probably have the shortest – Linemen, yeah, not really. Because it's just – You have to.

36:02Sal Di Stefano:It's like – It's too much. That's an interesting question. I don't know what – poor linemen don't get a lot of love as it is. I wonder, too, though –

36:10Adam Schafer:But I bet you there's a wide disparity.

36:11Sal Di Stefano:There's also, well, again, it's beneficial for a lineman to carry himself at 350 pounds. And that, generally speaking, is not ideal for overall health.

36:21Adam Schafer:Yeah, but I bet you if you looked up, okay, so the average career for NFL linemen is three to four years. Doug, can you look up average career for each NFL position? I bet you.

36:32Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I mean, yeah. I bet you quarterback is better. Yeah, but my argument. Cloddy kicker. My argument. Kicker's the healthiest thing. My argument for that is that they're already in a not optimal healthy body to last that long already. Where a quarterback, a wide receiver, a running back will keep themselves in a more optimal shape just for their position. So that's kind of not fair to compare to alignment.

36:59Adam Schafer:Well, my point with that is like, okay, we'll use two fighting sports, boxing and Olympic wrestling, which both at a super high level, especially like pro boxing and the Olympic level wrestling is, you will see Olympic wrestlers still compete at what I would call older ages. You're talking about late 30s. You often don't see this in boxing. Well, unless it's a style thing like Mayweather or like where he's - He doesn't get hit. He doesn't get hit. That's right. Yeah. Or like, I forget his name. There was one like boxer that was like, he had like the longest career ever. And it was really because of the amount of hits he took.

37:34Adam Schafer:What does that say there, Doug? Yeah, so the longest is long snapper, 7.5. Punter, 6.4. Kickers, 5.5. Quarterbacks, 5.4. I guarantee it's ranked by how often they get hit. So wide receivers are at the lowest, it looks like, at 3.5. Yeah, see, that's not true.

37:50Sal Di Stefano:Wide receivers get hit way more than a—

37:52Adam Schafer:Well, 3.5 versus 3.9 is pretty close.

37:55Sal Di Stefano:No, no, but I mean, when you compare a long snapper to a wide receiver, are you like that? I think, well, I'm going to speculate. Yeah, but they don't do a lot of middle crossing.

38:02Adam Schafer:I'm going to speculate. that you guys help me because especially you, Justin, you play football. Linemen, they connect. They're real close to each other. Still brutal, but they're pretty close. Receivers, when they get blasted, it's typically high speed. You're getting hammered. Yeah, and it's a lot of hands to break out in their patterns. But again, if they do get the ball and then they're going to get crashed by, those blows definitely come.

38:24Sal Di Stefano:I think that that stat, there's way too many factors. I think your body type going into it makes a big difference. I think the way you take care of your body, I think what you're arguing, the hits, I think all those are such... I think those are all such huge factors that it's not like a positional thing. No, but if you didn't practice too, they'll be running... My argument to this is that when we see these examples, Tom Brady's, LeBron's, Curry's, you see these athletes...

38:49Adam Schafer:All the energy and time they spend is on recovery.

38:52Sal Di Stefano:Yes, and they are unbelievably meticulous about it. I mean, LeBron James has laid out his million dollar plus budget that he puts towards recovery. And there's a, I mean, they have it down to a science of like, he plays a game, then he does this, then he does this, then he does this. And it's like -

39:09Adam Schafer:Consistent.

39:10Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. And like Steph Curry, same thing. Like Tom Brady, same thing. Like they had a regimen. What a wonderful lesson for the average person

39:17Adam Schafer:listening right now. Obviously none of us here are Tom Brady or whatever, but all of us, if you're listening and you're into fitness, like I want to be able to do this forever. Like my goal is to be able to do this forever and to do it well for as long as I can. it makes sense that most of my time and energy or much of it is should be spent towards recovery

39:35Sal Di Stefano:and adaptation dude i've 100 have adopted this philosophy in the last five years of my own training it's just like i i like if people spent more time on that than on the beat myself up in the work everybody even though i i don't even wouldn't because i'm the the do as little as possible to list the most changed guy like i've been so focused for my most of my lifting career on building muscle, you know, or getting shredded. It's like it's been, or chasing a PR. Like it's like where I've done all that, right? I've hit good enough PRs in all my lifts. I've accomplished the low body fat percentage.

40:07Sal Di Stefano:I've got, you know what I'm saying? Like I've built a ton of muscle in my frame. Like chasing any of those anymore is actually not a good idea. I end up getting hurt and the juice is not worth the squeeze. And so, so much of the way I train now is more longevity, recovery, take care of the body. Like, how do I feel today? Like, oh, I'm going to now switch and do this instead.

40:31Adam Schafer:I was having this conversation with a friend of mine that I've been training, because we were talking about this, and I said, you know, even high-level athletes, even pro athletes have an in-season and off-season. The average person needs the same thing. And for most people, what this probably looks like is 90 % of the time, you're cruising. Literally, 90 % of your year, if you live a normal life, you got kids, you got a house, you got responsibilities, right? You're not like, you know, independently, wealthy, don't have to work. You just live in the gym, right? Most people have lives. 90 % of your workouts are probably going to look like cruising.

41:05Adam Schafer:Then you get the 10 % where you're sprinting. This is when everything's perfect, everything's going great. You know, for the next four weeks, I'm going to go after, you know, really. You're going to answer it up. That's right. But most of the time, and I think if you took that approach and you were consistent with it, obviously it doesn't mean you're not working out. You're still consistent. I think you'd have a wonderful training career.

41:25Sal Di Stefano:I was talking to somebody in my DM yesterday because I posted my story of my consistent, boring, same meal that I eat or that I prep with every single week. And they're asking like, oh, what's the macro breakdown on that? I'm like, I have no idea. And they're like, what do you mean you have no idea? I was just, I said, I haven't tracked a macro like that in a very long time. And they're asking, so is that because you've figured out, Are you happy with where your body is? I said, well, I probably fluctuate between 12 % and 15 % throughout the whole year. And I hit the edges occasionally. I may allow myself to push up to 17, 18.

42:02Sal Di Stefano:That's normally my, like, oh, I need to get my shit together. You know what I'm saying? I've been enjoying the whiskey and the ice cream or something too much or missing the gym too many times in a row. Like, that's that edge, right? And then I have the other edge of, like, you said, like, you know what? I got four or five weeks. Katrina and I are getting ready for Cabo. I'm going to dial it in. I'm actually going to cut back on some things that I know right away. I'm not counting. I'm just like, I know that ice cream, a big bowl of ice cream. That doesn't really fit. Yeah, yeah. 900 extra calories.

42:30Sal Di Stefano:I could easily just say, I'm not going to do that for a while. Are you really doing 900 calories of ice cream? Oh, bro, way more than that. Way more than that. That's awesome. Come on. That was me being conservative right there. I'm not eating any ice cream right now, but when I was, I mean, I'm down 15 pounds in the last. Really? Yeah, yeah. In my opinion, I was on the edge of that. I was probably 15 % to 17 % on the upper edge. So I cut out those things really quick. I limit, minimize. Still have a drink here and there. I still allow it in there, but it's not as much as it was before, and that'll bring me right back to that range.

43:03Sal Di Stefano:But to your point, that's what it kind of looks like, is this ebb and flow. I'm not really focused that hard on it. And getting in the gym at least between 2 and 4. 4 is a great week. Two is a slow week of training and kind of hovers in that range. It keeps me there. And I can easily manage that and then have the opportunity to sprint to do that. And what sprinting looks like is just not missing the gym, not having those things. And it pulls me right back down to that like 11 % range for a while. That's great. That's great.

43:34Adam Schafer:I'm going to change subject because I saw this. There's this interesting dating app that is exploding in popularity. And I'd love your guys' opinions on what you think is happening. I thought they were dying. Well, so let me tell you about this new one. There's this new dating app that's getting really popular. And here's the difference. So typical dating app is, you know, you swipe right, swipe left, and the person tells you the interested. You decide if you're interested or not, right? There's a new app called Ditto that is now, like, exploding all over college campuses. Here's how it works.

44:08Adam Schafer:Ditto. Here's how it works. students complete a survey that allows the platform's AI to determine their matches. New pairings are generated every Wednesday and it gives match students the chance to choose a time that works for both. Interesting. So here's why I think this is working. I think the dating apps gave people way too many choices. And I think we just want people to, I think my wife speculated, she thinks that what's going to get real popular moving forward is what we used to do back in the day, which is friends would try to connect you with people. Oh, I don't disagree with that at all.

44:43Sal Di Stefano:I think that's a really good...

44:45Adam Schafer:It's like trying to find a TV show, dude.

44:47Sal Di Stefano:It's impossible. It's crazy.

44:49Adam Schafer:I was telling my kids this. I was talking with them in the car, and we were watching the World Cup. Commercials come on. First off, my kids love commercials. I'm like, this is weird. Your kids love commercials. It's like a new treat. It's so weird. You know what commercials are? It was the original reels. It was like little short reels or whatever. So my kids, so I was talking to them about, like, why are we watching commercials now? I'm like, we have to. What do you mean we have to? I'm like, so I was telling them about how TV was when I was a kid. And I was like, you know, when I was a kid.

45:18Sal Di Stefano:Papa didn't pay for the premium.

45:21Adam Schafer:Well, no, World Cup, you have to watch. I didn't bring them back in. Well, I was telling them, I was like,

45:24Sal Di Stefano:if you have YouTube premium, you didn't have to watch commercials. Really? On the World Cup? Is that what's happening? that's cheap.

45:30Adam Schafer:I paid for something. What happened? Is there tears? Yeah, there's tears, dog. My bad. So I was talking to them, and I'm like, when I was really little, before we had satellite TV, because that was the next, or cable, right? That was the next, that was a big thing. I'm like, I had three channels to choose from. And I said, and they're like, well, what would you watch? I said, cartoons. When would you watch? I said, Saturday morning. I had to wake up. And so I was explaining to them, and they're like, well, were you bored? Because there was nothing to watch. I'm like, you know what's funny? No.

45:57Adam Schafer:I said, the choices were kind of made for me. Yeah. And if I'm scrolling through the 10 channels that I have and a movie's on halfway through, cool. We're going to watch Predator halfway through.

46:08Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

46:08Adam Schafer:And I think that so many choices, it just paralyzes us.

46:13Sal Di Stefano:Do you remember when you guys first started buying video cassettes? I do. Yeah. My buddies and I got into buying our own video cassettes when we were in high school. So we don't have a lot of disposable income. So being able to afford a$20 video cassette, which is about what they were back then, was a lot of money, especially the dollar back then, right? so that's like a thousand dollars yeah probably a full days of work it was a full days of work yeah yeah so i remember i i mean over my senior year i think i collected 13 video cassettes you know and i must have watched those same all the time 13 movies i can i can picture it up i had it up on this like bookshelf thing all of them and it was like what am i watching tonight you know it was just like it was i rotated between 13 for like probably four years yeah dude so i think

46:56Adam Schafer:these dating app is popular because kids are so sick and tired of like having this here just you

47:01Sal Di Stefano:know what you just i have another i have another theory on that i think uh and you know this because i know we've all we've all watched this show uh blind dates been like become like super popular and there is something about it that i i mean of all the the bad parts of it the good part about it is it forces these people to really get to know them each other probably more than the average kid gets to know the person they're about to date. Like up until, I don't know, a few years ago, it's just swipe, look at a picture. Oh, I like. I mean, maybe you look at a little bit of their profile, but it's like you're, it's all visual.

47:33Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. It's all visual.

47:35Adam Schafer:Or you put in super unrealistic like filters. Yeah. Like he's got to be over six foot. He's got to make over six figure. You just narrowed it down to like 5 % of every guy.

47:45Sal Di Stefano:It's so funny. Yeah. So I think that allowing, filling out a survey, which is i'm sure you're answering a bunch of questions about things you like things you're into using ai to match that has probably nothing to do much if or very little with the visual side and it's like these are the things that your core values and it's giving it to you yeah it's doing the work for you yeah yeah so i i do think that they're that's better than what was that was out there well when you get challenged it's real it's like we're just so spoon fed our own bias for everything and so that's it like i'll just look and see oh you know i like this because of these traits and all these things but like you don't the thing is like people don't take a chance anymore to find out what they don't like like they didn't think they'd like that but now they like it oh for sure because it's like go hang out with nobody's challenging any of their ideas their thoughts like uh their experiences because it's like you can pretty much pre prescribe everything now so that's why that that's why this app will also fail to your point and why we have to just get back to going and old school old school and figuring that out because there's so much value in working through that conversation oh you oh you bro i just read oh you're you're republican i'm democrat oh like you know like there's so much value in i'll give you how that plays out

49:05Adam Schafer:i got a study that just came out and i think this is the accurate number a six-foot man who makes $60 ,000 a year, a guy who's five foot eight would have to make 174 grand to be as attractive to a woman. You saw this? Yes. So the, so he, he would have a guy who's five, eight was either five, seven or five, eight would have to make$174 ,000 to be considered as attractive as a dude that's six foot who makes 60 grand. Now here's the thing. I get that on paper. I get that fine. That's fine. Men have their preferences. Women have their, I get it. But here's the thing. A woman could meet a guy who's 5 '8", who's making 60 grand, but she meets him and he's got all the characteristics of somebody that's like, man, he's hardworking.

49:44Adam Schafer:He's a go-getter. He's got purpose. I see his potential. You're not going to know that because you're just swiping because he doesn't make the amount of money that you think he needs to make around the gates. So you miss out on this potential relationship because we're not meeting up with each other. You know where people are meeting up, by the way, where the big social area is now? It's gyms. Have you guys seen that? I've seen those stats it's pretty all the traditional places that people used to meet up and hang out are declining in uh attendance and but gyms are going up that makes me think of this uh the shoe brand this guy was coming over and it's like totally like platform gives you like three inches or something and it like blends it yeah dude they try and make it look like athletic shoes they give you like this much left for these little short dudes like push-up bra dude

50:29Sal Di Stefano:look at look it out for them them short kids oh man dude you don't want to get caught in those You know what I'm saying? Just like the stuff in the bra, you don't want to get caught with it. It's like, I guess it kind of works. For the hair. Yeah.

50:40Adam Schafer:Yeah. It's for a one and done, maybe. By then, it's too late. Yeah. Hey, shoes are off. Hey. She's like, why are you keeping your shoes on? Yeah.

50:50Sal Di Stefano:It's like the last thing you take off. Shorts. What is it? But shoes are on still. No, they stay on. What is it? I'm going to get you, sucka. What other movie is that where the hooker starts taking her wig off? and then her earrings and her face. Oh, what's that from? What movie is that? The guy's like, I don't remember that. Is it I'm going to get you, Sucka? I think it's I'm going to get you, Sucka. It's so funny, though. What an old movie, dude. Like, literally, like, looks normal, like, all done up and then takes, like, all the makeup and everything off. Oh, dude, I got it. It's a gremlin.

51:20Sal Di Stefano:I found somebody, I think, who recommends movies worse than some of you guys. I feel like I was talking.

51:25Adam Schafer:How do you tell a story and insult us? Yeah, I like that. I like that. I got a story right through it. A shit sandwich.

51:32Sal Di Stefano:There's somebody who gives worse movie recommendations, our buddy Jason, dude. The last couple times we've hung out, he's recommended some movies, and I've been like, now I haven't seen that one. Now I haven't seen that. And then the last time we were hanging out, he tells me to watch a citizen vigilante. Citizen vigilante. And did you see the preview for this? No, I did not. Okay, yeah. The name alone gives it away. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, and I'm watching -

52:00Adam Schafer:Is he one of those guys that just likes action? Yes. That's like my dad.

52:03Sal Di Stefano:My dad always recommends. My brother-in-law and him. There's tons of action. Any Tom Clancy. Yeah, my dad's a scene. And it doesn't have to have any sort of depth. Yeah, that's my dad. Oh, just if it's action-packed.

52:15Adam Schafer:Guns, this, that. My dad's always recommending movies. Sovato is a good movie. It's a lot of action. Okay.

52:20Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Sisu. I hadn't taken any of. That was actually at least good. That was good. I did like Sisu. Crazy action. I haven't watched the second one. It was good, too. Was it? Because Katrina wouldn't watch it because it's a little too graphic, but I liked the first one. I was late to the party. You liked the second one. Yeah, yeah. But back to this one, and I'm going to ruin it because it's a terrible movie anyways.

52:40Adam Schafer:What's the Rotten Tomatoes on it, Doug? Oh, let me see. 6%. Oh, God.

52:45Sal Di Stefano:That sucks. Hey, dude, it was... So I'm going to ruin it. I don't care because it's a bad movie. You shouldn't go watch it. And my buddy's telling me how great it is. Like, I have to watch it. And I can tell by the way it's even the opening up and the acting and stuff like that. And I'm looking at Katrina, I'm just like... This is going to suck. Yeah, is this going to get better? What's this going to be like? And where I couldn't finish it, I turned it off, is there's a scene, and it's playing up to it. So it's like building up to the scene, and they're giving you hints that this scene is coming.

53:14Sal Di Stefano:And it's literally this citizen vigilante guy who's killing all the bad guys by himself. And the government is coming after him, and they send in two tanks to his house, right? And he's bunkering down in his house.

53:30Adam Schafer:Nice. He's so dangerous that he's in tanks.

53:32Sal Di Stefano:Bro, tanks with, I think, 40 or 50 soldiers, right? For one dude. Yeah, for one dude to his house, right? And he bunkers down in a bedroom that has a bulletproof steel box that he's in with, like, two AK-47s. In his house. In his house. Wow. And he allows them all to come in. And by the way, it's like a bedroom, right? And so, like, one soldier doesn't just walk in. Like, 10 of them all walk in. and there's just this big box with two guns pointing out of it. And before he shoots him, he's polite. Hey, you should leave or all of a sudden. I don't want to kill you. Yes, and he literally kills the first 10 that are in there and they just keep sending the soldiers in.

54:16Sal Di Stefano:And it's all graphic. Heads are exploding. He would just throw a bomb in there. Bro, it was, or roll. Because the guns are on these things. and so he's like mowing everybody down from chest up not one of these 40 soldiers thought they could crawl or go through the back or stop coming in you know what I'm saying I haven't talked to Jason yet

54:43Adam Schafer:I can't wait to tell Jason 80s action movies were a lot like that remember Commando where Arnold's walking in everybody's missing but they're not trying to be serious you can tell but there was one movie where one guy took out a lot of people and it was in my opinion some somewhat realistic uh first blood you guys oh yeah that's great rambo got stupid let's be honest rambo got really crazy yeah but first blood was pretty good that's the very first one right the very first one i mean it was pretty good dude it's also a good movie it's also what

55:14Sal Di Stefano:to take to give the 80s crazy action some credit too it's like first of all sylvester stallone back then was just like to see a body that looked like that and he plays the character of a ranger so he's like the ultimate badass green beret or green beret ultimate badass yeah sorry you gotta get it right how dare you like the ultimate like military badass right you know i'm saying and so and then and he does take out guys one at a time he does if you remember first blood he's he's

55:43Adam Schafer:a vietnam vet ptsd horrible stuff happened he's just trying to live his life dude yeah and he gets harassed by it's a bunch of it's a bunch of small town cops yeah right and they they go after him in the woods which he could he could live in that's why that's why he had like like arrows that explode no that's rambo no this is the one where he's like yeah he's like he's like in a cave he's like eating wild boar he's getting with knives he's getting his knife he's like hiding in the mud and he like that's right yeah and he sets up booby trap like it's realistic yeah i know i agree with you yeah no i ended up watching like it was just for nostalgia's sake I thought, oh, maybe this movie holds up.

56:20Never Ending Story, those kind of like, oh, I have some childhood memories.

56:24Adam Schafer:So have you guys ever watched Little Monsters? Oh, is it bad now? Do you remember that? Oh, dude, it's terrible. Didn't we just talk about that? No, we talked about a different one. I didn't even put this together, but I realized what it is. So me and Courtney start watching it. Fred Savage is in it. Oh, yes. I remember this movie. And then, so the guy, too, did Bobby's World, and he's on, what's that? Like, America's Got Talent. Like, he's one of the main hosts for that. Anyways. He's a monster. Yeah, he's a monster. He comes out from the bed, and the whole premise is basically like, you know, he pulls him in.

57:01He traps him, and he's the first guy to trap him, and then, like, ends up going to see this underground world. The monster world. I can barely remember that movie.

57:08Sal Di Stefano:I don't remember it very well. But the whole thing, I realized what it was. The whole thing is like, I'm like, this had to be right after Beetlejuice. Yeah. And I'm like, yes. And I look it up. And of course, they tried to make it just like Beetlejuice, but for kids and more family kind of oriented. Oh, I totally remember this now. But dude, he was so obnoxious. The most overacting crazy. It wasn't even funny. And the whole thing was ruined, dude. I swear. It was like he was trying so hard to be Beetlejuice. and it just didn't work. I remember that. We used to watch that all the time. Just save yourself.

57:44Sal Di Stefano:We're all eight, nine years old right here. Yeah. Yeah, no, this is - It didn't hold up. I was kind of bummed. I thought it was good. I was like, oh, this is a good movie. We watched, Max and I watched it. I introduced him to the original Willy Wonka. And so that was really good.

57:58Adam Schafer:There's this terrifying scene in there for little kids. Let's see. When they're going through the tunnel.

58:03Sal Di Stefano:Oh, it's not as terrifying as you think it is. Yeah, yeah. Well, he's older now. Where it's all like all the - Yeah, weird stuff's happening. Psychedelic. Yeah, yeah. It's so low budget that it's not that scary. Yeah, yeah. It's designed to be the scariest part of that.

58:17Adam Schafer:Did I tell you guys years ago, my older kids, when they were younger, I thought, oh, Gremlins. I remember that being a fun family movie. It is not a fun family movie. That is a violent, scary-ass movie. Oh, no.

58:25Sal Di Stefano:I remember being a little scared watching that as a kid. That is a scary-ass movie. Yeah, yeah.

58:29Adam Schafer:You know, they throw them in the microwave. Did you watch that with your kids? When they were younger, my older ones. I made a lot of mistakes. I made a lot of mistakes as a young dad

58:40Sal Di Stefano:yeah I gotta ease Max that's where we're at we're at Waco I can't get him to watch one time I watched a movie

58:45Adam Schafer:with my oldest when he was little I thought it would be cool and a scene comes up and the poor kid frozen looked away and I knew I traumatized him I knew it right away I was like oh no I just traumatized my kid the movie that was not age appropriate

58:58Sal Di Stefano:Max is so cute when we're so we had the fight we were outside and barbecuing and we had the fights and stuff and all the TVs going and stuff and during one of the ads there was like a ad for like a movie and it was like a scary movie and he's like so trained to not do that that he's like and he was walking towards the tv and the barbecue and stuff like that and then he just he put his head down and jason and daniel were like what's wrong with max and katrina's just like oh he's looking away he's looking away i said yeah and they're like oh my god she goes like i couldn't figure out what he was doing because also nowhere he's like he's like walking and doing this at the same time but he's like trained himself if he sees something he knows right away.

59:35Adam Schafer:Do you guys remember as kids, because we watched VHS, right? So when our parents rented a movie, it was on VHS. So if a quote-unquote dirty part came up where you would see boobies, they wouldn't like, okay guys, leave the room. Just fast forward. You just watch the boobies. Two lines. That's it. You just watch the boobs in three times speed. Oh, I've tried that a few times. You can't do that. You're always late.

1:00:03Every time. Gordon gets so mad at me. I'm like, I'm sorry. I forgot about this part. Yeah. Oopsies.

1:00:09Adam Schafer:I got to tell you, you know what I've been drinking a lot of lately is the Kion essential aminos. Yeah, yeah. Because of jujitsu. Man, it makes a difference. And I eat a lot of protein. Yeah, yeah. Makes a difference. Are you doing it while? Do you mix it with the water while you're - So while, but also throughout the day. Oh, okay. Because here's what I'm noticing. And I was speaking to this on the series that I record with Dylan. one thing that I hurt in areas where the muscle attachments are because I'm strong but my body is not used to being to having to exert strength in those positions or at that speed and so what's happening is my elbows hurt because my forearm flexors are tight at the insertions so it hurts I couldn't even lift the other day because bench pressing hurts so bad because of that you require a lot more force now It's just my hip, although that feels a little better.

1:01:01Adam Schafer:And it's not that it's injured. It's just my body is not used to being pulled and strained in this way. But the essential aminos, by the way, I have the, check this out. So they put the, here's the thing, guys. You buy essential amino acids, nine out of 10 times, it's not going to tell you how much leucine, isoleucine. It's not going to tell you the amino acids that are in there. It's just going to say.

1:01:22Sal Di Stefano:Yes, they can save money. We looked this up one time, how much money they save.

1:01:25Adam Schafer:It's just going to say three grams of essential amino acids. You want a high amount of leucine in your essential amino acids. That's what does the recovery and build muscle. Otherwise, it doesn't do very much. The leucine in one packet of their aminos, 2 ,000 milligrams. 2 ,000 milligrams. Isoleucine, 550. Valine, 500. But leucine's at 2 ,000. And that's what you want. You want really, really high leucine content in your essential amino acids. And they list it. They break it down. So that's how you know. The best. When you got the best one. healthy meats, delicious. Tastes like the soda you grew up sipping.

1:02:03Adam Schafer:Olipop has the added benefit, by the way, of gut health support. I really recommend these to all the clients that we have here at Mind Pump. Here's why. First of all, it's delicious, but this can right here, this is cream soda, 50 calories, 50 calories, three grams of sugar, and there's fiber. This has nine or eight grams of fiber in these cans. Super low calorie. They taste delicious. Again, it tastes like soda. This tastes like the cream soda I had as a kid. I have another one over here. Classic root beer. It tastes like root beer. This one's 35 calories. If your goal is fitness and health, you want to burn body fat, you like the taste of soda.

1:02:43Adam Schafer:You don't want a bunch of calories, a bunch of sugar, and you want stuff that's good for your gut because there's gut health compounds in here as well. You got to go with Olipop and check it out. You can get a free can of Olipop. Here's what you do. Go to drinkolipop.com slash mind pump. Buy any two cans of Olipop in the store and they'll pay you back for one. It works on any single cans of any flavor at any retailer. So again, it's drinkolipop.com slash mind pump. Buy any two cans of Olipop in the store and they'll pay you back for one of them. Go check it out.

1:03:16Sal Di Stefano:Our first caller is Riley from Mississippi. Hi, Riley.

1:03:19Adam Schafer:How you doing, Riley? Good morning. Great. How are you guys? Good. How can we help you? Um, well, first of all, thank you guys for so much that you do. I've been listening since I was back in high school and I started lifting in 2016. I had no idea I was doing so you guys have helped a lot. It's really cool to finally talk to you. But a little background for my question. I promise I won't take too long. I am a personal trainer. I went and got my degree in exercise science and I'm currently back in school to do a nursing degree. so I'm really interested in lifestyle medicine, changing the way we look at chronic disease.

1:03:55I've been athletic my whole life and I recently in January ruptured my Achilles playing basketball. Going through that rehab made me look at the way I train patients and clients differently so it made me really want to dive into like evidence-based practice and focus on how I can help people who may have multiple comorbidities or maybe postpartum, maybe going through an injury like me and returning back to exercise when I've never had an athletic injury like that. It was a big change for me. So my question for you guys is what resources do you rely on to stay current with evidence-based practices when working with complex clients, maybe those with multiple comorbidities or just a chronic disease such as, you know, COPD or just anything, assuming they've been cleared with the doctor to train with you?

1:04:43And how do you balance that in your coaching experience?

1:04:47Sal Di Stefano:Are you still working in the gym right now? Right now, because of my lifestyle. So we're military. We move all the time. I just provide training. So I do a lot of virtual training and then a little bit of in-person with more so friends. But I'm currently working just as a barista to pay for nursing school. So I do a little bit of everything. But training online is my main platform right now.

1:05:14Adam Schafer:Yeah. So your question, I love your question. It's funny, I just had this conversation, similar conversation yesterday with a friend of mine who's a psychiatrist. And we were talking about, you know, quote unquote experts on social media and how they communicate and how, you know, when we're listening to like a, let's say a fitness or health influencer, we can pretty quickly tell if that person has a lot of experience working with people or if they don't. And it's not necessarily because they do or don't have the right information. There's a lot of really good science-based people on media who communicate fitness and communicate the data, but they've never trained anybody or they haven't for a long period of time.

1:05:57And you can hear it in how they communicate.

1:05:59Adam Schafer:So the example I actually used last night was Brett Contreras. He's known for building glutes. He's also a science guy. He can quote the data, understand studies, has conducted some himself. But when he communicates, you can tell he's trained a lot of people. Thousands you can tell. You can tell he's done this for decades, okay? And so the reason why I'm communicating this to you is there's tons of resources for information, medical journals, studies. You can even go on forums, medical forums, where you're going to run into a lot of medical students where they're discussing the latest studies and the latest science on how to treat, you know, comorbidities or different chronic conditions.

1:06:39Adam Schafer:But the best thing that I think, or the best way you could get yourself good, honestly, is to work as an apprentice in some way, shape, or form with somebody who's very experienced. Because the difference between somebody who does a phenomenal job and everybody else isn't necessarily that they have better data or better information. It's that they know how to work with people. Right. And they do a better job of that. And so for someone like you, and I'm just making a judgment based off of what you told me, sounds like you like to learn. I don't think learning is an issue for you. I don't think seeking information is an issue for you.

1:07:21Adam Schafer:It sounds like something you really enjoy doing. I don't think you're ever going to be short on knowledge, but experience is where you're going to notice where you're going to have some deficits. And so the fastest way to get that besides going out there and doing it is you work for somebody or under somebody who has, and even if you do it for free for a while, uh, and consider it the most valuable education you'll ever get that you're not paying for. So you can literally find somebody in a field you're interested in. You can approach them and literally say, I'm a student. I want to get really good.

1:07:58Adam Schafer:I want to learn from you and I'll work for free. I just want to be around you to watch how you engage with patients, how you work with patients. And if I can ask the occasional question, that's a plus. And what you'll get out of that, like six months to a year of that, oh my gosh, you'll come out so much better. So that's the absolute best thing you could possibly do, in my very strong opinion.

1:08:23Sal Di Stefano:Another hack, although I don't think anything's better than what Sal said. Nothing will trump that. I think that's the best. But since you're online and virtual most of the time, and you're not in a place, and it may be difficult to go intern with somebody 20, 30 hours a week with everything else you have on your plate, the very bare minimum, I would definitely join a community like our school group, like with our trainers, where you have other like-minded professionals that are out there doing the work and coaching people where you're sharing stuff like, hey, has anyone trained someone who's diabetic?

1:08:56Sal Di Stefano:Oh, has someone trained anybody who just blew their Achilles? And so you have the other like-minded coaches that you know are under our umbrella. So their philosophy is probably going to be very aligned or learning from a lot of us and what we teach and gone through our certification and then sharing their knowledge and what they're. And so a lot of our school group is that is trainers. Hey, I've got this. Build yourself a big network. Yeah. I got, I got a client. I've never trained someone who's got gout. What do you guys do in this situation? And then you'll see three, four, you know, more experienced trainers chime in and be like, oh, do this.

1:09:26Sal Di Stefano:And so definitely be a part of a community like that. I mean, that's something that you can virtually do at home and be learning as you go. I think that that's far better than, than just going deep on the science-based studies and knowledge. Because although that stuff is important to understand and know, you can have all the answers, but then you can have five clients with the same problem and you're going to approach it five different ways because of the individual. Yeah. And I think, you know, to echo both of them, like I think what's helped me kind of accelerate my knowledge base is to surround myself with people of other different professions that are, you know, similar and synergistic in a sense.

1:10:06So like physical therapists, chiropractors, like just really solid, uh, individuals in the area that I knew I could, you know, send clients to, but also I would meet with and we discuss, uh, and I would get a lot of like really important

1:10:20Sal Di Stefano:feedback and application to then kind of work into what I was doing. So just, you know, surrounding yourself with like really good professionals.

1:10:27Adam Schafer:And Riley, just again, just to kind of hammer this home because you're getting into the medical field and medicine does a phenomenal job uh western medicine does a phenomenal job of diving very deep in a very narrow scope okay but they don't do a good job of uh connecting the dots with other parts of the body or the mind and that's just because you only have so much time like we're gonna go to school for 50 years like it's possible to do all of that but what what happens is we treat the mind as if it's separate from the body and we treat the person as if they're different from their physiology.

1:11:03Adam Schafer:In other words, there's people with chronic pain and their chronic pain goes away from talk therapy or from an SSRI, like what's going on here. Or you'll get somebody who, you know, I've had clients where we would do belly breathing and they'd have an emotional release. So you can't separate all that. And so the reason why I said work with someone who's experienced is because what you figure out after years of working with people is you start to learn how that all works together. A lot of it's human psychology. And how you work with the individual based off of how they present themselves and the directions that you can go.

1:11:36Adam Schafer:And so nothing, I'm gonna tell you right now, if you could find yourself somebody that is really experienced, that you could just work under for free for a while, that'll trump all the education that you can get from books and from data, by far. You'll come out of that and you'll be like, oh my gosh, I learned so much. yeah I have definitely felt like it's hard to plug into those types of networks my college town I worked at a gym and unfortunately our the owner kind of chased off every personal trainer that came um yeah I won't go too much into what he was he was a whole mess um but so we would often the trainers who had that experience or maybe going to physical therapy school after their degree and would have much more knowledge and experience with these patients that may have special considerations, they would be gone and chased off.

1:12:28And then moving every two to four years doesn't really help either. So I think definitely plugging into the schoolhouse and just learning that knowledge. And I've learned a little bit more in my clinical rotation too of nursing school, just to see the way that Western medicine kind of deals with things versus the way that exercise science teaches us to deal with things. And the gap that I would like to bridge having my knowledge like going forward because I hate that everybody's just prescribed a drug and then we just don't do anything physically or nutritionally to make them better. But yeah, definitely plugging into those sources would help.

1:13:03Adam Schafer:Yeah. But again, just the attitude around it is like you invest a lot of time and money in education. And so the energy that you put into that when you're ready, you would put into apprenticeship. And so you would say, OK, for the next year, this is what my education is going to look like. And then you would search and you would court, you would court them. You would call them, you'd show up at their office and you would say, I'm here. I'll do this for free. I just want to learn. And I bet you somebody will bite and you'll get that experience from working with someone. And I, again, I can't stress this enough.

1:13:36Adam Schafer:It will make you better, faster than any other thing you possibly do. Yeah. I love that. Cool. All right. Yeah. Thanks for calling in. Yeah. Hopefully we see in the school group yeah yeah thank you you got it i was literally just having this conversation uh with a friend a friend of mine so she's a psychiatrist and she's very very smart uh she went to harvard harvard medical school brilliant uh woman and we were talking about this and how uh you know they in psychiatry it's the mind and they don't consider the body yeah and she's like It's crazy. She's like, it's crazy. Now we have data that shows that exercise is such a powerful antidepressant.

1:14:17Adam Schafer:And she's just like, you know, if you could figure out how to combine the two and work with them. And we had this whole conversation. It's like she can't possibly learn everything that a really good coach would learn because she spent so much time in school or nutrition or whatever. However, could she work with other people? Trade information. That's right. And develop it and build a network. But nothing will teach. We tell our trainers all the time. Like, you want to get really good? Work under a good trainer. That's what happens.

1:14:42Sal Di Stefano:Well, I mean, Justin's shared his story many times where when he went to that studio after he left and got to be around 20 other great trainers that had all these, you know, different backgrounds. It's just an incredible fast track to get good, especially if you're hanging out. It's the most I ever learned by far. Now, granted, this is 15 years ago or more, right, when that was a thing. like we do now have cool communities online that's similar to that. And that's why I think in her situation, that makes the most sense as far as easy. Like that's the bare minimum. Now I would be still searching because I don't think anything will trump what you said.

1:15:22Sal Di Stefano:I think that's the best. I have no idea what, I didn't see what town she's in or if they're, you know, because she could be out in the middle of nowhere. And if she's moving every two years, that could be kind of difficult to do. But she absolutely can join a community where there's other like-minded, you know, successful veteran trainers where they're sharing ideas. And that's a quick way to do that for sure. Our next caller is Jay from Texas. What's up, Jay? How you doing, Jay? What's happening? Hey, guys. Y 'all looking good there. Hey. Thanks, man. Thanks, man. How can we help you? It's the filters.

1:15:51Sal Di Stefano:I try. Well, man, I've been listening to you guys for about a year and a half now. And it's awesome what you guys do, man. I tune in seriously every single day. and like Monday, I'm kind of fiending from Sunday and not getting to hear anything. So I listen to you guys when I'm working out actually even. So it's pretty cool. Thank you. But I'm reading through my email that I sent you guys and I wrote a book. So I'm not going to read the email, but I'm going to give you the cliff notes. Basically, I'm 55 years old. I've had two times in my life where I've lost quite a bit of weight the first time was my early 30s when I lost 140 pounds I had gotten to 385 and was you know really out of shape obviously and then the second time well at that at that time when I lost the weight I actually I ended up becoming a personal trainer because I really got into the fitness aspect.

1:16:56And so I became a trainer. I was a trainer for just a few years. And but during that time, I met my wife. So that was a big plus from it. And so she married a guy that was in shape. And then a few years later, I decided I was just kind of done with the whole thing. So I was tired of measuring food and I had a lot of injuries. My Achilles were pretty jacked up. So I was, you know, dealing with pain all the time. And, you know, at that time, I think I turned about 46, 47 years old. And I was just like, screw it, I'm done. I'm going to be old and fat. And so obviously my wife wasn't super excited about that, but she was pretty good.

1:17:44She kind of rolled with it for a few years. she would encourage me, but she never like nagged me about it. Thank God. She probably figured if she did, I'd never bounce back. So, but anyways, a couple of years ago, back in 2024, we had gone to New York city, my wife and I, she's from New York. And I couldn't go up to Statue of Liberty because I was too out of shape. And it really, it really got to me. and so then fast forward to end of July that year we went on a trip to Mexico and it was pretty cool we got to go snorkeling but when I went to get off the boat at this time I was about 360 pounds and I wasn't thinking that I typically don't think I just kind of jump and And so that's what I did.

1:18:39I jumped in the ocean and I panicked. I got a mouthful of water and it really freaked me out. And so much so that I wanted to get back on the catamaran. And my wife was, you know, kind of like, Jake, come on, you know, we're here to see this reef. You know, you can do this. And so she kind of helped me get my wits about me. I ended up being able to swim and I don't see the reef, all that kind of good stuff. But that moment stuck with me. And the next day we were back on the beach and I told my wife, I'm like, look, I'm I'm looking like a beach whale out here and I'm just sick of it. So I'm tired of holding us back.

1:19:17So when we get back, I'm going to get in shape. And so I had a doctor's appointment scheduled. I went to the doctor's appointment, got my blood test. it all came back super positively negative. So I was high blood pressure, high cholesterol, fat off the charts, and type 2 diabetes. So I had read a book, a buddy of mine gave me this book about fasting. And I fasted before for personal spiritual reasons, but I never fasted really to like lose weight and so I read the book and I started doing like 24 hour and 18 hour intermediate fasting combined with keto so from August to December I lost about 50 pounds and in December rolled around I decided you know what I want to I want to start working out again um I I missed it well so I started working at home and I couldn't even do 15 push-ups from my knees without struggling I mean it was pathetic it was I was in such bad shape and um January I joined the rec center and started working out anyway so fast forward um I've kind of done a couple different things over the last year and um I lost I got down to 265 which was my goal that was what was in my mind so I got down to 265 uh November of last year 25 and then I decided you know what I want to um I had been listening to you guys and all your talk about um the um reverse dieting and at the time you know I've been fasting and I'm like and you guys are talking about how much protein I should be getting and I'm thinking good god man How am I going to eat all this?

1:21:11You know, and so I thought, you know, the holidays are coming. It's kind of a good time to do a bulk. So I flipped everything and I thought, you know what, I'm going to reverse diet. And it was a very dirty, very dirty reverse diet. But it got me up. And then so when January rolled around, I was like, okay, you know, I'm going to get back. So I'd still maintain my workouts five days a week. But my work, my eating totally changed. So January comes around and I said, OK, I'm going to start eating more like whole foods and not so much focus on trying to trim, lose weight, but just get my calories around 3400 is what I wanted to be.

1:21:54And this was just based around stuff I keep hearing from you guys, you know. But coming off of intermittent fasting, it's hard to get from like 1700 calories to 3400 calories, you know. So it took time and thankfully, you know, I had the holidays that helped. But anyway, so for the last several months, that's what I've been doing. And my strength's just been going up my bench. Now, I have to use Smith machine because at the Rex Turner, that's all they got. But I, you know, I've worked up to doing a workout with 315, you know, three sets of 12. And then I'll do a set of usually like 365, see how many I can get, you know, at the end of that.

1:22:36um so going from you know 15 push-ups on my knees to that you know I feel pretty good at 55 but um but now I really just want to trim down because I was able to get my dex scan um and it came back at 29 body fat which I'm not too excited about uh I want to be I knew it wasn't 15 anywhere close but I just feel like, man, that's a lot, 30%. So I'm trying to get down to 15. My question to you guys, the whole reason I emailed you guys is, and I didn't have this information before the DEXA scan, but where should I be calories a day? My resting metabolic rate is 2 ,200 calories according to the DEXA scan.

1:23:24And, yeah, so there we go. That's why I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to cut.

1:23:28Sal Di Stefano:How tall are you, Jay? I'm 6 '4". Okay, I figured you were tall. You're a big dude. Yeah, you're a big dude. I definitely wouldn't. I think where you're at and what you're doing is right. I think you just need to stay the course. You finally course-corrected the right way, and you're building strength, and you're feeding your body what you need to. Are you hovering around 3 ,400 calories right now? Is that about where you're at? That's where I was at. Actually, two weeks ago, well, actually, a week and a half ago, after July 4th, I thought, you know what, I'm going to cut. because I didn't think I'd be talking to guns for another like three weeks.

1:24:02So I was like, man, I just can't wait.

1:24:04Sal Di Stefano:So anyways, I'm down at like 2 ,800 calories a day right now. Yeah, I'd prefer you up. I'd prefer you up and just stay in the course that way. And your body comp change, you will lean out. Okay. Your size, the amount of muscle, what's your benching? I know you're a strong dude, so you've probably got some good muscle on you. Eating less than 3 ,000 calories. unless you're really sedentary do you sit all day or do you do you move what are your steps at man i'm in my truck a lot so um i mean i'm not not like a trucker like just uh i go to jobs so um i'm only getting maybe 6 000 steps a day that's not terrible that's not terrible that's

1:24:43Adam Schafer:better to sell yeah jay you might you might if i get a little deeper if i ask you some more questions yeah go for it man so so there's a there's a root issue here that um i think is important that we address, uh, because it's going to be hard to get out of this cycle that you're kind of in, which looks like this. It looks like you're either all on, all in, or you're all out. Yeah. And so, and the challenge with that is, uh, at some point you're going to be all out again. It's just what's going to happen. So we've got to figure out a way to make this, uh, sustainable and consistent. Now I would, I surmise that someone like you probably pretty disciplined the rest of your life.

1:25:22Adam Schafer:And so what you probably do is just try to over, you just try to discipline the hell out of yourself and give yourself a ton of structure when you're on. And then at some point you're like, this sucks. So I just want to break. Okay. So we got to do, we got to figure out a way to get you to enjoy the process and not enjoy it because you're doing what you think is right, but rather you love it so much you want to do it and you don't want to stop. Now, what does that look like? It might look like a little less structure. Uh, and it might look like a very basic, give yourself some very basic rules.

1:25:55Adam Schafer:Now tracking everything, that's a lot to do all the time. There's nothing wrong with it, but if you have a history of on and off, I don't know if that's necessarily the best approach. You're consistent with your workouts. I think that's great. Five days a week's a lot. I don't think you need to do that much, but if you want to keep going five days a week, go for it, do what you enjoy. And with the diet, I think if you just stick to whole natural foods and stop worrying about how much you got to eat, how much, I think you're going to be okay. Where it tends to go off is probably when you go away from whole natural foods.

1:26:26Oh, for sure. I can, you know, you guys talk about this and it's ridiculous how true it is, but I can pound a bag of chips in five minutes, you know, and not feel it.

1:26:37Sal Di Stefano:Like it's nothing. It is so much different eating real food.

1:26:41Adam Schafer:Yeah. So, so what it would look like, Jay, is something like this is when you start to add all these rules, all this structure, it starts to feel a bit tyrannical and a bit controlled. And at some point, especially if you're a guy that doesn't like to be controlled all the time, which I can relate, at some point you want to give it the middle finger and be like, I'm going to do what I want. And so it doesn't look like you go off a little bit. It looks like you just go way off, like you run in the other direction. I'm stopping my workouts. I'm eating whatever the hell I want type of deal. So what might be easier, Jay, is instead of tracking everything and getting crazy with all that, would be to meal prep.

1:27:18Adam Schafer:Because this is going to set you up, okay? Because one of the challenges with eating whole natural foods sometimes is if you don't have them around and you're hungry, well, the fastest thing becomes, you know, really hard to resist. So I would just, your structure might just look like this. Meal prep, eat when I'm hungry, eat whole natural foods. And if I'm hungry, I eat. If I'm not, I don't. And that's it.

1:27:39Sal Di Stefano:only I track is my protein.

1:27:41Adam Schafer:Yeah. Make that a thing. A guy your size, if you're eating four meals a day, which you probably should, you probably should have at least four meals a day. You have a nice, a good amount of protein in each one, 55, 60 grams. You're good, dude. Okay. Let me tell you this. Cause, um, what you just said, I've been lately in this just the last like three weeks. Um, I I'll have my breakfast and I'm trying to get, you know, 65, 70 grams of protein for my breakfast um i don't because i'm usually out and kind of on the road i don't have a lunch because i don't prepare that kind of like a sandwich type of meal and i refuse to eat out so um what i've been doing is i take this is gonna sound ridiculous probably but i mean it's literally like my snacks it's my it's a banana it's my protein bar it's protein shake it's um I make sometimes some protein muffins.

1:28:37That's what I'm having for lunch, and then I have a real dinner. So then I'm still getting about 250 to 260 grams of protein a day.

1:28:46Adam Schafer:Is that okay, even though it's not? I think that's okay, but it's probably a better approach. Can you have dairy? Yeah, I have tons of yogurt lately. Well, as I say, you could have a cooler with cottage cheese, high-protein yogurts, some nuts, some fruit. that could be lunch or you can make a meal put it in the cooler that you don't mind eating cold and that's your meal and i think you should eat two meals before you get to dinner so you got a meal then you got another meal and you're gonna have to discipline that's the discipline the discipline comes this is how you can apply it i'm gonna eat it this time i'm gonna eat it this time and then i'm gonna have dinner and what that's gonna do it's gonna prevent uh those moments when you're without food for a while you're out and the cravings hit and you're like you know what I'm just going to go for that, whatever.

1:29:31Adam Schafer:So it's very basic rules. Whole natural food, eat when I'm hungry. But you've got to set yourself up for it by prepping.

1:29:37Sal Di Stefano:And the reason what Sal's saying I think is really important, especially if you know this about yourself, you're on or off, and the thing I don't like about the fasting windows like that, of not eating for that long, is you get really hungry. You go from I'm not that hungry to I'm really hungry. And then when you start feeling that way, it makes it even more difficult to make the healthy choice versus I'm not even that crazy hungry, but I know it's about that time I need to eat another meal. I'm going to eat that meal. And it keeps you always kind of satisfied where if you allow that six, eight-hour window sometimes, you're just like ravenous.

1:30:10Sal Di Stefano:Oh, my God, I'm so hungry. And then you're like, oh, and I got to go eat that boring-ass meal or I could drive through that place and go get that thing. And so it just makes it easier.

1:30:18Adam Schafer:Yeah, so if you took like a cooler with two meals in it, so you get your breakfast at home, you got two meals you eat at work that you don't mind eating cold, and then dinner. And if you're just consistent with that and you're like, oh, I'm still hungry. All right. I'll have another little bit of what I had for dinner. I'm just going to stick to the whole natural. I think if you just followed that and you kept working out, Jay, you're going to get body comp change over time.

1:30:40Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:30:41Adam Schafer:You're going to get there over time. Yeah. If you do the aggressive cut, the aggressive bulk, you're just going to fall into the old pattern of the off, off, off.

1:30:48Sal Di Stefano:You're already pretty, for your size, you're already plenty low enough. Like hovering around the 3 ,000, 3 ,400 for 6 '4", 250 dude is, that's plenty low. enough calorie and 6 000 steps is not a lot but it's not low okay so let me ask this i mean i'd like to be in my okay this sounds i don't know this is just me being um i guess the ego or whatever i don't know i've never seen my apps right i grew up kind of a pudgy kid played sports all that but i never you know had apps so i'd like to see some apps and uh i've been lifting them, you know, doing weights with them based on your guys' recommendations.

1:31:29But I think

1:31:30Adam Schafer:probably 15%, maybe I could see something. You might, but let me tell you I'll tell you two things about this, okay? The first one is the most important, okay? It's very important that you understand this, and you trust me. Abs are so overrated. Seeing your abs is so, nothing changes. It doesn't change your life in any meaningful way at all. Yeah, I get it. It doesn't. You won't be able to live in that. It doesn't do anything for You get abs and you're like, what's going to happen? Nothing. Nothing happens. But you've seen your abs before, right? Yeah. That's all I know. Yeah, I say, like, I've never seen my abs.

1:32:01Sal Di Stefano:So another way to say this too, though, is, and you absolutely can, but focusing on that is going to shift you into the wrong mindset and make bad choices nutritionally. That's right, dude. And right now, if we're trying to build them so you can see them at high, because I know you listen to the show, we talk about how you build your abs so you can see them at higher body fat percentage, you need to feed your body. You're not going to build abs with low calorie. If you're low calorie and you're in a huge deficit, you can do all the ab work you want. They're not going to build. So you need to be fueling the body enough nutrients that you can actually build muscle.

1:32:34Sal Di Stefano:Abs are included in that. And so focus on getting them that way.

1:32:37Adam Schafer:I'll tell you what. If you just ate whole natural foods, ate when you were hungry, meal prepped, kept lifting, and that's it. That's all you did. And you did that for the next year. You would drop. You would be in the teens of body fat percentage. And it wouldn't feel like you were chasing it. that's just where your body would fall. Yeah. And it would, it would be, it would be something you want, you would sustain. You'd be able to,

1:32:56Sal Di Stefano:and I think that's a first good goal is just to get down in the teens, a body fat percentage through that method before we start talking about looking like washboard ab shit. Okay. That's like, that's the next, that's the next conversation. I mean, and it's not, I don't know. Like I said, it's a silly thought, but it's just, there's nothing wrong. It's just one that's out there, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, but that's, that's the big long-term goal right now. It's like, let's, Let's get down to the teens, body fat percentage-wise, the right way and healthy. And that's the advice that Sal's giving.

1:33:26Sal Di Stefano:I would like to add a little more. I want to change your programming. I would like to put you on MAPS Anabolic. And then the other two days that you go to the gym, I want you to walk for an hour. Go get those steps. So I literally want you to follow MAPS Anabolic, the way it's laid out. We'll send that to you. And then still go to the gym five days, because I like the fact that you're in a rhythm and your routine and you like doing that. But the other two days, I want you to walk on a treadmill for an hour. or an elliptical just low like steady state cardio not pushing i don't want you trying to get crazy just cruising just move listen to the podcast yes you should be able to talk you should be able to have a conversation while you're doing the cardio so whatever whatever you what modality you choose you should be able to talk not like puffing and puffing while you do just cruising for an hour that on the other two days those follow that with the advice style has given nutritionally and let's let's talk again in like three four months and see where you're at yep okay yeah man thanks guys that's man that's awesome yes that's awesome you got it dude yeah one last question and i know i shouldn't focus on a scale number but i am curious because i've never really you know i've been at different weights i've been 245 but i wasn't as muscular as i am now so i just look skinny fat is there a scale number that no a six four guy it's hard I don't want to see you lower than probably 250.

1:34:48Adam Schafer:Yeah, let's see what happens.

1:34:50Sal Di Stefano:250 is a good weight for a 6 '4 dude who can bench press 315.

1:34:55Adam Schafer:Yeah, let's see where it falls. You're a big guy. If you were my client, I wouldn't even weigh you. Wouldn't matter. We would just see a year from now being consistent. All right, where's your weight at? Oh, that's cool. It seems like this is the way you should be. Honestly, you're going to get stronger. You're going to get defined in all kinds of places.

1:35:11Sal Di Stefano:Honestly, if we do this right, where it's at right now, you should kind of just hover there for a long time. Hover up or down five pounds, right around where you're at. You don't want to see major swings north or south right now. If I see big swings north, that means you're probably going over and above the calories, you know, or eating out of bounds too much. If you go down way too low, you're not feeding yourself enough. We should kind of, if we do what Sal's trying to get you to do, which is this beautiful exchange of you add five pounds of muscle, you lose five pounds of fat, which means zero movement on the scale.

1:35:40Sal Di Stefano:You add five more pounds of muscle, you lose five more pounds of fat, zero movement on the scale still but you're going to see the day-to-day fluctuation of like you know five pounds north or south i'm not worried about that but you should kind of hover around the same when we're talking two months later from now i don't want to see a huge difference in weight on the scale shouldn't shouldn't see that okay okay cool all right yeah you guys are awesome

1:36:01Adam Schafer:all right jay thank you man we'll see you back take it easy thank you so much record yeah it's um i gotta say this again man abs are so overrated everybody aims for them i'm going to say this right now. If you're a natural dude and you chase single digit body fat, you are going to 100%, you are going to compromise hormone health and athletic performance, strength, all that stuff. Now there are genetic anomalies and this is what we tend to do. We tend to look at the crazy freaks out there, but that's not how it works the most time. It's funny. We just watched UFC just, just happened. Right. And you see all these fighters who have crazy fitness and stamina.

1:36:37Adam Schafer:You take their shirts off. You're like, I think you train. Yeah. You don't got crazy abs. You're all jacked and ripped, but they can fight. It's so overrated across the board and chasing it oftentimes leads to failure. But if you, if you kind of follow the process, especially a process that you enjoy or learn to enjoy it, your body gets to a place where you, the result is you look great, but you feel great. You keep getting strong and keep focused on that specifically. And I swear your body changes and morphs and you get defined in lines where you didn't have it before. You have to just keep, you know, trusting the system.

1:37:13Like it's going to work its way out. Our next caller

1:37:15Sal Di Stefano:is Linda from Massachusetts. Hey, how you doing Linda? Hey guys, thanks. Thanks for having me back. First, I just want to say, um, your advice is so important, especially for women. And I am like the living after of everything that you say. So just a quick history. I started, um, lifting weights when I was 17, running when I was 22. And since I've had a balance of both, I'm still exercising to this day back then everything I learned about nutrition was from bodybuilding magazines um and I've so protein with every meal still do that and I've kept my muscle mass I worked out through both my pregnancies in 93 and 96 and as you guys know as soon as you have a kid you have less time to work out and I got in better shape but I got a little too lean and um I ended up having trouble getting pregnant when I gained weight I got pregnant right away.

1:38:04So being too lean does affect your hormones. About 10 years ago, I went through menopause and knew I wanted to be on HRT. And I was lucky I found a local doctor who prescribed it. She tested everything, including vitamin D. And back then they wouldn't even test vitamin D, but it took me about a year to get my body back. And I felt great. But then I started to read after a few years, how important having hormones is for your brain, your heart, and your muscle, your joints. So like you guys, I found Karen Martell through a podcast. She got me back on hormones and peptides, and that really helped me with my running.

1:38:38And that was great. About three years ago, I got a DEXA scan. My muscle mass is good. My fat is good. But the big, big surprise was I have the bones of a 30-year-old. So all the stuff that you say is true. So I'm definitely the living hoof of that. But it's been a long time since I was back on. It was in 2023. I just qualified for the Boston Marathon and asked you guys for an off-season program. I ended up doing anabolic, which I liked. But as I upped my running, I found that 40 plus was awesome. I loved that program. It was a great compliment to my running. And I just want to make a plug for live coaches.

1:39:15I've had the same running coach for over 20 years. And you can imagine when I went to him and said, I lift weights. He was like, what? But he just went with me. And I said, I only run three days a week and we had a really successful year because I had a gap year, but until I could do Boston because it was so late in the year that I qualified. But as you kind of pegged me, the first time I was on, I'm type A. My last race was in November and then Boston training started in December. I'm in the Boston area, freezing cold winter, running in the dark, getting up at four in the morning, driving into Boston.

1:39:50But great coach and the day was awesome. and I had a great day and actually qualified again for the next Boston Marathon. But the stress was starting to catch up with me. And I wasn't recovering like I normally did. Took time off, went to Italy, had a great trip, came back. Still, everything, I had a lot of aches and pains when I started running again. So my husband threw a curveball at me and he said, I think you should do a powerlifting competition with me in December. And at this point, it was June. And I had done some bench press competitions and had success. This was 20 years ago, but I was like, I needed something different mentally because the running just wasn't coming back.

1:40:31So he got us a coach because he said, if I try to coach, you will get a divorce. And we didn't want that to happen. He found a great coach, but he threw me right into the deep end, four days, two upper, two lower. I had my hips were still bothering me. So I was having trouble squatting, but he was really, really good. But then he told me, you need to gain weight. And I was like, I'm a runner. I never heard that before, gain weight. So I got a nutrition coach and she reverse dieted me. And just like all you guys say, three weeks I couldn't gain a pound. And I just felt better. I looked better. I performed better.

1:41:03I still had pain, but I was also adding to the stress bucket. I was selling my house. I decided to do my church Christmas musical and my daughter's getting married. But I got through it. I had an injury right before the competition, but got through it. And I have to tell you guys, it was an awesome experience. As you always say, the community was great. It was fantastic. And I really liked it, but I shut everything down after that. I had stopped running in September just to train for the powerlifting competition. I opted out of Boston. I knew there's no way I could do it. And the coach put me on a very good off-season program, getting my hips strong, everything strong.

1:41:41and then right before my daughter's wedding in March I went back to my nutrition coach to go on a cut for the dress and I started adding some running back in she wanted me to add some cardio and I felt great of course because I was healing so I went back to my running coach and said let me sneak in a few 5ks before I do the powerlifting competition again in December and I did a race and as you guys probably could predict no running from September in May I barely lost any speed. I felt great, placed in my age group. So all those years of running was still in me. But I got an injury on a training run and I just stopped running.

1:42:17I said, I got to focus on one thing. I did my one rep max testing to start the program, but my PT kind of re-aggravated this calf injury that I had. And so I decided to just focus on healing and everything is always in God's timing. I was supposed to be on your show at least a couple of months ago. And I would have just asked, oh, what should I do after the powerlifting competition in December? But I want to tell you the biggest lesson that I learned from this experience. One was the reverse dieting was awesome, right? And it was very logical for me. I could see the success and the progress. I had no problem with that.

1:42:54But I think you guys have some version of this lesson in every single podcast you do. Your body responds to the signals you send it. and my body was not going to get stronger unless I stopped running, unless I fed it better. And now I'm looking for you to help me with a program that will tell my body it's safe to work out again so that I can heal because I still do want to get better at the three lifts and I still want to be able to throw in a 5k. But bottom line is I should be retiring at the end of the year and I want to be strong enough to do anything me and my husband want to do on our adventures.

1:43:33So I listen to you guys all the time and you know this is what you're telling you less is less is more listen to your body so now I'm ready to hear the advice I'm ready to receive it I think at this

1:43:46Adam Schafer:point let's go all right so you're going to be okay with less yes yes and I'm already there so I just want to get better I mean I'm just doing PT exercises I found a new PT and that's all I'm doing and walking that's it okay good let's go maps 15 performance I like Mass 15 performance. I'll send you that program. I think it'll be perfect for you. Then symmetry. It's athletically minded, so you'll get that movement. Symmetry would be another good program to follow that up with.

1:44:14Sal Di Stefano:You follow that up because then it leads her right into a five-by-five at the end of the program.

1:44:17Adam Schafer:That's right. It's a perfect performance. And that would be absolutely perfect for you. Okay. And I think just to kind of recap on what you said about nutrition, there's really three important things when it comes to nutrition and athletic performance. uh one is am i eating enough two is am i eating the right things and three is when do i eat the these foods and it's kind of in that order and a lot of us ignore the first one especially uh athletes who are afraid of gaining weight and so they look at what i'm eating and the timing but they don't they ignore or they they misunderstand how much and so what happened we just increased their calories and there's people are blown away i can't even believe I feel so good.

1:44:56Adam Schafer:I'm not gaining all this body fat. I had no idea this was the issue because I was eating the right foods. I was eating at the right times. I just wasn't eating enough. And so I'm so glad you went through that to kind of get that. Uh, it's a, it's such a, it's a simple button to hit as a coach. Whenever I work with someone like you, it's, it's almost, it's almost, uh, like clockwork. I'll work with someone like you and I look at their food. I'm like, just the seat increase your calories. Yeah. Watch what happens. yeah and and i think um you know you keep hitting home about um there was somebody that just was on a gentleman that said he had these injuries he thought it was going to be out and he followed its symmetry and he's like a brand new person and because i started to feel that way like is this it you know like everybody always said to me you're getting old you know this is going to happen and i and i said you know if you do the right thing i don't think that's the case and i really have, you know, this whole retirement, I'm in my 60s.

1:45:53And I want to be able to hike or do whatever, you know, kayak and all the things that I haven't really had time for. And I and being in pain, like it affected my sleep. And as you know, we all know that that was an issue. And I think there was different sleep issues, which I'm working on, I actually just got my eight sleep, it just got delivered. So that's awesome. I actually even have the Oslo sleep buds, those are great but i just know fundamentally and i am working with um i don't know if you had dr on your show but um she is very forward thinking about peptides and all that so i always find a group that i can have a communication with and say here are my issues so so they've been really good and again the hormones are making all the difference in the world but it's everything is with testing um and i think part of the what i'm a little nervous about is um in my notes i'm living in an RV right now and we are in, we're in Maine and we're going to South Carolina and Florida.

1:46:52And we already know what gyms that have powerlifting equipment, you know, so we already checked that, but, and I'm still going back and forth about doing a competition. But we might just pick a date and say, okay, let's stop, maybe stop the maps powerlift and say, okay, let's just do the one rep max on this day. And plus, if I joined a powerlifting gym, they may have like many things that they do themselves or just even somebody. And I do want to work with a coach because I really had a lot of trouble with my squats because my adductors were a mess and my hips were a mess. And I, I almost was afraid I wouldn't get low enough.

1:47:27So when I got my first white light, I was, I was like, good, you know, um, I'm just concerned that when I don't have access to equipment, am I going to get weaker? I mean, I, I, that's definitely a little bit concerned for me, but you, you keep stressing that how little volume and then even hearing someone like adam who did bodybuilding competitions going i don't work out like that right now and you know so it almost gives me permission to say i'm not going to turn into this weak violet if i you won't know no you're not going to you're

1:47:58Sal Di Stefano:you're the when we train someone like you you're more likely to push and do too much and hurt yourself and set yourself far more likely than you are to do too little that you want you're going to lose something that's right so i would never worry about that with someone like you i'd be constantly probably pulling you back going like all right Linda that's enough we're good that's that's plenty and so just be thinking like but those programs I think are perfect follow that the way that's laid out and that's going to set you up really nice yeah it's um it's been quite the journey and I know that after I hung up last time Sal was like uh you know what was it like being in the gyms back then and um definitely seeing the progression of women lifting weights and the gym that I belong to here in Maine, it's, it's fierce.

1:48:40I mean, these people are, I don't know where they grow these butts. They're unbelievable. You know, I got my little skin and running, running, but, um, but it's very, very inspiring because, um, my contemporaries, it's hard to get guys my age to lift weights. My husband just did powerlifting competition and he like he squatted 400 so oh he's really strong wow and uh so that's the he did very well and in his he got his trophy he's in his 60s also he is 59 yeah we're three years and he you know what he said is i've always we met in the gym uh 40 years ago crazy we met in the gym um so that's why we've continued to do it and like we still eat we bring our food everywhere we go you know uh And it really makes a difference, especially living in an RV, a little bit different lifestyle.

1:49:29You know, people are drinking. I'm like, okay, got to eat the food. It's all good. It's all good. But being around other people who do this, obviously being married as you have wonderful spouses, it makes a huge difference to continue on. Because, like I said, a lot of my friends, even we have a lot of my husband's also done Ironmans. And I've done triathlons. I've done everything. But because they didn't do the weight training, they're all crippled. A lot of them can't run anymore. They've had knee replacements. So I don't want to go there. And that's why it was so shocking that it finally was my turn.

1:50:04But, I mean, all the stress that I had in my life, it was cumulative. And it was a big life change, especially selling a house, getting a daughter married. It was all that. And I'm not about doing too much. I want to do this forever. So, again, you guys, listening to you, always continue to talk about listening to your body. Don't do too much. And, you know, Sal, I'm an engineer, so I always love that. The studies show. I mean, not that I need it, but I do like Dr. Stacey Sims and Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. I've been listening to them. A lot of people, Bill Campbell, they're all doing a lot of research in postmenopausal women.

1:50:43So the research is there and it's always about not too much cardio, do hit, heavy lifting, but recovery is huge. And I rather do other things too. It's not like I don't have to run. I don't have to be in the gym all the time. I want to be outside now that I have the time. And I just want to be healthy enough to do it. So you guys, I listen to you all the time. It's such an inspiration. I always think, okay, I'm not going to listen to this because I've heard it before. And you put a spin on something and I'm like, okay, and it sticks in my head. So I really, really appreciate it.

1:51:13Adam Schafer:Well, thank you, Linda. You're the inspiration. And yeah, we appreciate you. And follow the programs. You're going to have a good time. Have a fun trip.

1:51:19Sal Di Stefano:If you make it down to the Tampa area, make sure you swim by Ben Pekulski's gym. So I don't know if you guys will make it to Tampa, Florida. But if you make it to Tampa, Florida, you got to go see Ben Pekulski's gym. One of the best gyms out there, yeah. We're going to be in the Vero Beach area. But obviously, we're pulling our house all the way down. We have a fifth wheel, which is really cool. Yeah. And it's fun. That's the other thing about when you go to different places, you meet other fun people. Powerlifting competition was very inspiring. Met a lot of women there too. So yes, keep doing what you're doing.

1:51:48You guys are amazing. Send anybody my way. Any woman who doesn't believe what you say, I'll tell them it's all true.

1:51:54Sal Di Stefano:Appreciate it. We appreciate you. All right. Thank you guys.

1:51:58Adam Schafer:Be good. It's funny. She said we're inspiring. Nothing inspires me more than somebody who's been doing this for a long time. I know. And you just see their energy. It's just so incredible.

1:52:09Sal Di Stefano:And she is the classic example of a client that you don't have to worry about her not doing enough. It's the other way around. It's pulling her back a little bit. 100%. She looks great, though. Incredible. Our next caller is Noah from Montana. What's up, Noah? How you doing, Noah? Hey, guys. How are we doing? Good. How can we help you? Good. Excited to be back on. I was on about three years ago and super happy to be chosen again. again my question for you guys today is just all about feeling old when I should be feeling young I'm 21 I'm an electrician and over the last I'd say probably three months I've just been on kind of not downward spirals that's a big term to use but just a lot of little aches and pains everywhere it started when I was working on doing some heavier deadlift and I was going to try and work my way towards a one rep max.

1:53:00And I think I might have strained my hamstring or something, just like a minor strain or something lower down behind the knee and just kind of took it easy. But then from there on, it was low back pain when like squatting really high reps. And then at work as an electrician, just low back pain when like sitting cross-legged and doing stuff. And then just like from here on out, it's just been, you know, um, just kind of almost feeling just fragile and weak, like making little jumps down, like a little 16 inch jump. I'm having to be extra cautious. I'm getting pains, just moving boxes and stuff in my back.

1:53:37Um, just a lot of like little weird stuff. Uh, and I've tried to fix some of it watching YouTube videos and different things, but eventually it's just been constant little things that I'm like, I need to, I need to call into the experts.

1:53:49Adam Schafer:Um, Um, from a training perspective, I've been running you guys' programs for about three years now. Last six months did map symmetry currently in maps performance. But life's been really busy. So I'm only getting to the gym about two times a week for shorter periods, probably an average of like 45 minutes. Um, during those two times, I don't, I don't get to the gym to do those mobility sessions. So you might just kick me in the pants and be like, get on the mobility work. but I primed before every workout, uh, cool down everything afterwards, been trying to work on the low back pain and whatnot, uh, during priming.

1:54:26And, um, yeah, just trying to, trying to figure out what, where to go from here training wise and, and what to do about all these kinds of nagging little issues.

1:54:35Adam Schafer:Yeah. So are you, um, first place that would look, and I have it, I have a suspicion, but first place that is your sleep really crappy. It depends. Um, it's a little off and on. Uh, I tried to get about eight hours of sleep. The last week, it's probably been a little closer to seven, but it is something that I try to be consistently getting eight hours of sleep. That's not too bad. Do you drink? Do you party? Yes. How often? Oh, no. No, sir. I drink a ton of water. That's where my mind's going. I was like, yes, big drinker. Yeah, I'm a big drinker. I got a big gallon jug I take to work, and I try to get through a lot of that.

1:55:11I'm taking the LMNT every day, so I'm trying to stay hydrated.

1:55:15Adam Schafer:No, it sounds like you have a nutrient deficiency and that's why you're always hurting. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, you can go get tested, uh, for vitamin D deficiency would be the first place I would look and I'd look at your hormones, but it sounds like you have a nutrient deficiency and you live in Montana. Yes. So you're probably not getting much sun. Not in the winter. In the summer we get more sun. I'm outside more. Uh, I am taking vitamin D and a whole bunch of other vitamins, but. How much vitamin D do you take? I think about 2 ,000 units. So I would go get tested. Go get your nutrients tested.

1:55:49Adam Schafer:Zinc, magnesium, vitamin D would be the first places I would look. 2 ,000 IUs of vitamin D. It's low.

1:55:54Sal Di Stefano:Often doesn't do the trick. Doesn't move the needle. What about calories? I'm curious just where you are nutritionally. You look pretty lean. I haven't been tracking. This is a poor guesstimate, but probably around 2 ,500 on average. So maybe on the odd day pushing up a little bit, but often just in the throes of work and everything. I'm sorry, guys. I don't do the best job of getting a big breakfast that I'm probably pushing around 2 ,500, I would guess. Well, it's all connected. That's why. I mean, you're trying to get to the bottom of why all this is happening. It's probably because of what Sal's saying.

1:56:33Sal Di Stefano:And if you're eating in a calorie deficit or barely at maintenance most of the time, and you're not hitting your protein intake consistently, and then you're pushing the weights, all of this is a recipe for aches, pains, injuries happening. So that could easily be our problem here. And the solve is probably putting you in a calorie surplus, making sure you hit your protein intake, going and getting all your stuff checked to see what vitamins you may be lacking, and then getting on top of that. And so this could be the solve. Normally when someone as young as you are and then you're getting decent sleep, Sleep isn't amazing, but it's not horrible.

1:57:10Sal Di Stefano:That would have been where I thought the problem was. It's most likely nutrient deficient.

1:57:15Adam Schafer:Yeah, and you've got to do an easy test. You can go to a blood test from your doctor, have them test your nutrients, your nutrient levels, and just see where you're at. But it feels like that to me.

1:57:25Sal Di Stefano:Have you tried to run a bulk? Have you run a bulk? I have run a bulk before. I haven't done anything super purposely. As guys, we always say we're always on the bulk, and so I'm always thinking about it. But that doesn't mean that it's actually always happening. Yeah, I'd be curious to see just how you felt from that, from intentionally eating in a surplus consistently and hitting your protein intake while lifting to see how much better you feel just from that alone. Would there be some, like a small hack or two that would make it kind of an easy way to get the extra protein in? I know you guys harp on having full breakfast, take the leftovers from the night before type of thing?

1:58:07Would there be other little things that'd be easy ways to get, you know, extra 15 grams here, 20 grams there?

1:58:12Sal Di Stefano:I mean, a better way to answer that would be to kind of ask you, where do you fall short? What's the most difficult for you? Are you missing breakfast? Is that where you miss all the time? Do you miss? Oh, yeah. Okay, well, there you go. Eat breakfast. So that's, I mean, instead of like trying to think of all these little hacks or be telling you, go buy this, you know, 20 gram protein thing that you can insert. it's like make an effort to really cautiously have that breakfast have it ready to go the night before to where all you do is got to microwave it in the morning and go um and start and be consistent with that instead of trying to think of the whole day and all these other things like if you know that's your area where you that's why we talk about that so much because it's common yeah common in young men to just skip that grab your energy drink go start your day and then you don't eat till your first meal is lunchtime and then it's like a sandwich or something that's

1:59:00Adam Schafer:low protein but i gotta say no when if you're when i see a young man who's exercising pretty appropriately we're gonna twice a week you should be recovering your sleep's okay and you're like man i hurt if i jump down you know 16 inches or i'm constantly feeling kind of aches and pains everywhere that sounds like a nutrient deficiency it sounds like a vitamin d deficiency but it could also be a zinc deficiency uh or magnesium which is going to be exacerbated if you're in a calorie deficit yeah and so you just go you just get it tested dude and see where you're at and if it's vitamin d if i'm right first of all it's an easy test it's also an easy fix it's not hard you know they put you on 10 000 i use of vitamin d or something like that and within a week you'd notice a big difference we'll put you on map senior real soon stop stop okay yeah no i'll go get those tested like i do supplement with magnesium and zinc but without knowing you know the correct amounts of all that stuff.

1:59:54Again, it's better than nothing, but it's a shot in the dark, really.

1:59:58Adam Schafer:I've had many clients who took 1 ,000, 2 ,000, 3 ,000 IUs of vitamin D daily who also came back and it was too low. Okay. I think Adam, in fact, Adam, your levels were low. You took 2 ,000 IUs.

2:00:11Sal Di Stefano:No, I was taking 5 ,000 IUs and I still tested low.

2:00:15Adam Schafer:Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

2:00:16Sal Di Stefano:Oh, interesting. Yeah, I was taking 5 ,000 IUs a day, tested and came back still low, taking that consistently. So that's why I do 10. Would there be anything from a training standpoint that I should make sure to be doing? If you're following maps and you've got symmetry and performance and you're doing it two days a week, that's not our problem. I don't think that's the issue. Back to Sal's point. This is probably nutrient deficiency, and if you're not eating enough protein and calories, that's going to exacerbate that. Yeah. Yeah. That's where I'm.

2:00:47Adam Schafer:I don't think it's a lack of mobility. I don't think it's an overtraining. I mean, it's not going to hurt, but yeah, that's not the issue. Probably not. Okay. Well, we will do that, and yeah, we'll go from there. Follow up with us. Yeah, follow up with us, dude.

2:01:00Sal Di Stefano:I'd like to hear, so make sure we get to the bottom of this. Okay. I'll make sure to send you guys an email, let you know what we figure out. Yeah, you got it.

2:01:08Adam Schafer:All right, now. Thanks, dude. Awesome. Appreciate it. Love listening to you guys. I know every listener talks about it, but hearing you guys talk about everything from fatherhood to faith to just your family life and whatnot. It's super interesting. I love having, you know, really four guys, including Doug, here to have as great role models and whatnot. And yeah, keep up the good work and, you know, standing up for what you believe. I love that no one can buy you guys off. I can trust whoever you guys send sponsor-wise. I've never had any of your guys' sponsors go wrong. And yeah, it's just awesome to have great role models.

2:01:41Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Thank you, dude. Thank you, buddy. Awesome. Thanks, guys. God bless. Peace. Peace.

2:01:47Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. We had him on when he was how old? How old was the first? He was three, three years ago. He said, I kind of remember him. I kind of do too. And so, okay. That's why I went to calorie wise. Cause I think he under eight, bro.

2:02:01Adam Schafer:Yeah.

2:02:01Sal Di Stefano:I think he under eight back then. Yes. And I can't, I can't tell. We'd have to dig through and see if we can find it or not. But which, which is in line with what you're saying. Cause if he's got a nutrient deficiency and then you are also under eating calories for recovery.

2:02:17Adam Schafer:you know so there's there's a significant percentage of people who are uh suboptimal vitamin d it's a significant percentage and deficient it's still 60 percent and the darker your skin is the the higher the likelihood and then where you live right montana is not yeah in the summer but in the winter not getting much at all and if he's indoors he's not getting much sun and you need more sun than you think yeah to get that up and so and it's an easy test i recommend people and by the way some people have a lot of pain from vitamin d deficiency other people get anxiety and depression. And, um, you know, it's kind of hard to pinpoint, but a simple test will show it.

2:02:50Adam Schafer:Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's mind pump media. Thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. Check out our discounted RGB super bundle at mind pump media.com. The RGB super bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs

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