2921: Your FAT LOSS Stalled ! How Do You Fix it?

16:26Justin Andrews:Yeah, sometimes that's what the body needs to recover fully and really adapt to build muscle.

16:30Sal Di Stefano:That's right. I used to always explain using cardio, like nitric oxide for the engine. It's such a great way to get that extra bit of boost and speed, right? If you understand how nitric oxide works with an engine, it's like a blast of cold air that goes in there and you get horsepower. But you'll blow the engine if you just keep running on it all the time. And so somebody who's running on it all the time, taking that away, and then building a metabolism is going to be something like through building muscle, like your point. Someone who never uses it, right, and they save it, and then all of a sudden they hit it, you're going to see a boost from it.

17:07Sal Di Stefano:But it's short-lived, just like nitric oxide is. It's not something that you want to keep hitting over, over, over, over like that because eventually you will hit that same plateau. So that's why when I used to compete, my goal always for myself and my clients was how long can I get this person to lean out heading into a show without using any cardio. So I knew at the last couple of weeks, if I needed to ramp it up a little bit or sharpen up a little bit, I can hit that nitric on that last bit. If we had been doing it, and then you see this all the time with competitors, especially like bikini competitors, they're on like a 16-week prep.

17:40Sal Di Stefano:And day one, they're doing an hour of Stairmaster already. It's like, dude, you're doing that so early. We get in the final weeks and we don't like how lean you are. You can't ramp it up because you've already used that up. So I like giving that analogy to clients. It's like, it is a powerful tool, but it's short-lived what you get from it.

17:57Adam Schafer:Yeah, and the person who's not doing cardio right now is agreeing. Like, oh, yeah, I'll add a little bit. But I guarantee you the person listening right now is doing five, six days a week of cardio who stalled the fat loss. Oh, no way. They're listening to me tell them to cut their cardio in half and that'll help them with fat loss and they're just not believing it. Yeah. And here's what I got to say to you. They want to fight. You got nothing to lose. You already plateaued. Give it a shot. Worst case scenario does nothing. And you can go back to what you were doing before. Next up, this, I don't necessarily have a ton of science to support this, but it's been done for so long by stage competitors.

18:31Adam Schafer:And there's so many anecdotes surrounding this. And I have personally experienced this, that I do believe this to be a kind of decent, it's not as effective as the mini bulk, But it's a somewhat decent way to break through a fat loss plateau. And that's to do carb cycling. So carb cycling looks like this. You do two days of very, very low carbohydrates. And then you do a day where your carbohydrates are high. And you just go back and forth. That's one way to do it. And in my experience, I've gotten myself that final percent, percent half of body fat when I plateaued it. You know, something like five or five and a half percent body fat.

19:08Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I'm not sure if this is attributed more. I mean, I know that most people say it's just the calories that you're manipulating while doing through that. I had a lot of success doing this. I liked it. It also gave me something to look forward to on the hike.

19:22Adam Schafer:The psychological piece.

19:23Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, and we talk a lot about that, you know, being such a big piece to this whole puzzle is like being able to – the psychological game that you're constantly playing. So it's different. I think sometimes when you're in this consistent deficit and you're consistently trying to lose body fat and you're eating the same calories every single day is just monotonous. You need an interruption. Yeah, so it gives you a nice little interruption. I always, too, try to schedule. This is somebody who's doing this for body composition change. I like to schedule the high-carb days around the muscle groups that I was really trying to work on and develop, or your big ones like legs.

19:59Sal Di Stefano:Or your big, intense workout day. Yeah, when you needed energy like that, I could really power through a upper body type of workout when I'm low on carbohydrates. It's not difficult for me. Lower body, I need a lot more fuel and gas. And so I liked that part of it versus just having this kind of consistent moderate or low calories. And so I always had success with it.

20:20Adam Schafer:I liked the psychological piece. I liked feeling because when you go zero carb or low carb for two days, things flatten out. Your muscles don't feel as pumped. but you do kind of, you lose water. So you kind of feel like you look leaner. Then I do the one day that's high muscles, get a bigger pump. I don't necessarily hold water right out the gates. So for like a short period of time, I kind of look a little leaner in the mirror. And psychologically that was always very motivating to me, but I've, I've done this and I've maintained the calories. So I've done this where my carbs are low, but my fats are higher.

20:50Adam Schafer:So it's not like my calories drop, but I still find that it's, and I've done this enough times where it's like, I can get another half 2 % body fat off myself just by doing this. And I did this, the times I've done this is when I'm like really low and it's when things are just really hard to get to continue moving.

21:07Justin Andrews:Well, I like it too because anytime you remove something like that, that could be a potential tool for you to really boost your energy and like a useful energy at that time. You know, removing it, sometimes you get somewhat, I don't know if it's like adapted or you're just like, you're just kind of been doing it for so long. You don't notice, you know, that energy boost. It's good to kind of like reacclimate to it. Totally.

21:31Adam Schafer:And then last, this one's great for a few different reasons. One, it requires that you feed yourself a little bit differently, which is good, which is kind of similar to number one, right, going to mini bulk. Two, it takes your eyes off of the aesthetic, which I will never downplay the psychological when it comes to body composition change because the psychological, of all the things we need to consider, the psychological is the number one thing. It's the most important thing. I know this as a coach. You get that solved, everything else is easy. You can do everything else. Don't get that part solved and forget about it.

22:10Adam Schafer:And that is to focus on performance. You've been focused on fat loss for so long, and now you're plateaued. Give yourself five or six weeks of a performance goal. I'm just going to get stronger, or I'm going to improve my stamina, or I'm going to improve my mobility. And then feed yourself accordingly. How do I eat to improve this new performance goal that I have? And I'm going to do it for five weeks. I'm going to go back to fat loss after five weeks. But for the next five weeks, I'm going to give myself a break, mental break. I'm not going to weigh myself. I'm not going to look in the mirror.

22:38Adam Schafer:All I care about is this performance goal that I'm going to do for the next four to six weeks and eat accordingly. And this is a wonderful plateau buster. It's one of my favorite plateau busters because it's also a psychological plateau buster. You get out of your head, you get in love with performance, which is going to take you a couple weeks, but then you'll see the gains in performance. and you'll start loving it. And then you get back on your fat loss journey and it's fresh. It feels fresh again.

23:01Sal Di Stefano:More specifically, I love to pick an exercise you've either never done or rarely do and focus on that. Yep. Right, which is the same thing as what you're saying, right? You're saying, because someone might be listening right now and they're like, well, I'm kind of always trying to get a stronger bench and I'm always trying to get a stronger deadlift. So I'm never not trying to do that and that's performance focused and I'm still at a plateau. I'm not seeing anything. one of the best ways to break through a plateau and also focus on performance and see positive change in that performance is to choose something you don't normally do if you don't ever do bulgarian split squats and you suck at them like great time to switch over focus on them and see how good you get on them and you'll see this and this i love this even when i'm i have somebody who is cutting or trying to lean out because even sometimes in a calorie deficit we'll actually see strength gains, which is hard to do.

23:53Sal Di Stefano:It's very hard to see performance and strength gains when you're trying to lean out many times. And so, but when you're doing a new movement, a lot of times you'll see that performance gain even in sometimes a deficit. And so I love to add in to someone's routine, just exchange a staple movement that you do with something that you don't do and keep focused on that and getting better in that and watch how that

24:17Adam Schafer:Of all of these steps, because the last one we just mentioned kind of goes along with increasing your calories because you're trying to boost performance. Of all of these steps, the one that I was most consistent with with my clients was this one that we're talking about. When I would have a client, we're doing fat loss, we're doing a good job, it's plateauing, it's frustrating, very frustrating. I would literally have this conversation with my client. They'd come in, it's like, okay, this is week four or five, nothing seems to be moving, we're definitely in a hard plateau. And I'd say, hey, here's what we're going to do.

24:47Adam Schafer:for the next four weeks, for the next 30 days, we're going to just focus on this performance metric. And I would pick, typically we'll pick strength because that's an easy one. So I said, we're just going to get you strong. And I want to get you stronger at this one particular lift specifically. And we're just for the next 30 days, that's all we're going to focus on. After we're done, then we're going to get back on the fat loss journey. And they'd be like, well, I want to keep going. So we already plateaued. If we keep pushing, nothing's going to happen. So let's just have some fun for the next 30 days.

25:14Adam Schafer:And don't worry, when we get back to fat loss, that's going to start happening again. And my clients would agree. We'd do it. We'd have fun. They'd get into the performance. Then we'd go back to fat loss and like magic, like magic, everything started happening again. You know, back to what you were talking about, about building muscle and how it contributes to fat loss. It's so funny, Adam. A study just came out, and I'll pull it up right now, on the effects of muscle building to fat loss. Actually, this is an actual study. And this was June of 2025. and it's a peer-reviewed study. The title of it is Effects of Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy on Fat Mass and Glucose Homeostasis in Human and Animals.

25:54Adam Schafer:It's a narrative review and there's some systematic literature search. So here's what they found. The analysis reveals that a 1.9 to 3.3 % increase in global muscle mass in humans is associated with a 4 to almost 6 % lower fat mass. In other words, as muscle mass goes up, Fat mass tends to go down. That's right. This increase of muscle mass was associated with 23 % to 22 % less fat mass. So in other words, muscle does contribute to fat loss. And in there, they're showing how it affects glucose, homeostasis. Muscles are – so glucose is obviously the sugar in your blood. Muscles are a storage vessel for sugar and carbohydrates, just like the liver.

26:41Adam Schafer:and as muscles build a little bit, they become more insulin sensitive, they store more of that. And so you start to leverage the body more towards burning body fat, less towards storing body fat, more towards performance. And what we're finding, you combine this with other studies where they use strength training as the primary form of exercise for fat loss, even though strength training burns the least amount of calories. It's actually not a great calorie burner, but it's a great fat loss tool. How is that possible? muscle. Muscle is very valuable when it comes to fat loss.

27:15Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. I don't think anybody in the science community would argue, obviously they wouldn't, it's coming directly from a study, are going to argue that point or most of the points that are made around the benefits of building muscle and speeding your metabolism up. I just think that it's a classic example of when we want to be more right. And so when somebody communicates, oh, I had a client who we built five pounds of muscle and they're eating a thousand more calories, They want to come in and be like, that's a bunch of bullshit. That's not true. Every pound of muscle is only this many calories.

27:46Sal Di Stefano:And what I and I hate I hate when this is done because the average person that's listening, it's been so difficult to get people off this hamster wheel of body composition change by just running and eating less calories and encouraging people to build into the body they want. We've spent most of our career trying to make this case. and when you have someone like that from the science community that comes in and uses studies

28:13Adam Schafer:to support a bunch of the dirt in the water you do you cloudy everything you you you discourage

28:18Sal Di Stefano:for what to yeah yeah to be more right bro yeah to be more right doesn't help you know to be uh

28:23Adam Schafer:you know what the challenge is with that i know so here's here's the downfall it's so funny this is totally linked to that conversation i was texting you guys uh the other night um this is because people who are really deep in the science, data, and literature only use science, data, and literature as their litmus test for truth. Everything else is just an opinion. There is no truth unless it's proven by a study, okay? I get that. I get why somebody or how somebody could come to that conclusion, but here's the deal. You take a doctor, right, a well-educated doctor. The most, the best doctors in the world, the ones that really do a phenomenal job are the doctors that know the science very, very well, who also have lots of experience.

29:12Adam Schafer:Nobody would argue that. I think everybody would agree to that, right? They're the most educated, but also the most experienced. You combine the two and they just have a knowledge that is applicable, understands nuance. They're just that much better. Same for trainers. You can have a trainer who has got all the courses, certifications, know all the data, studies, anatomy, but they're not going to be a great trainer until they also get the experience. Now you combine both and it's amazing. The challenge was that anecdote and opinions, you know, you would kind of, it was based off of your opinion of the people that you heard, or maybe your own opinion.

29:50Adam Schafer:And if I get an anecdote for one person or two people or three people, I mean, it could be anything, right? Is it true? I don't know. Maybe, maybe you just experienced it and you attributed your success to that thing and maybe it was something else. But if you could compile thousands of anecdotes or millions of anecdotes, now we got something that points us in a particular direction, right? So experience, uh, is that experiences, well, I've been a doctor for 20 years. I've seen enough patients to know that the study says this, but here's what happens in real life and it's kind of different, right?

30:23Adam Schafer:Well, we actually have an opportunity now to compile anecdotes to start to point in the right direction. You can use AI that way. And that's what I was tripping out over. I used AI the other night and I asked it, can go on all of the fitness forums, for example, and tell me what does the consensus look like around what works for fat loss or what supplements are best for performance. Now take that, that data set and compare it to what the studies show and try to find the commonalities. And it's a remarkable, it's amazing. So if you

30:58Justin Andrews:just did that, listen, you could do that.

31:00Adam Schafer:Go, you could, uh, you could ask AI, go on all the fitness forums, uh, for fat loss. Um, and what are people's experiences with reverse dieting? Do their metabolisms actually get faster? I bet what you'll get is a majority of people will be like who did it right they'll be like oh yeah it totally worked it totally worked yeah and yet the data and the science is yet to prove it yet to prove how it works or why it works yeah so but

31:24Sal Di Stefano:anyway i did that were you were you i mean uh courtney justin's wife was talking when we were sitting by the fire on about her her experience as a nurse just like being very educated in the field oh yeah yet they would take all these nurses with less education but that have had lots of experience yeah two years of experience because they did like the intern or whatever like that for two years and she's like i mean i just i think everybody would rather have that i mean i always would i would always prefer a coach or a trainer who's been who's been doing this for a long time than than all the national certs like i don't give a shit about all that if you have all the national certs and you've trained for six months or give me the the guy or girl who's been training for 10 years it's less like oh i'll take the one who's been what's crazy about that helping

32:07Adam Schafer:people for 10 years and what's crazy is that how how few studies are repeated so they'll have a study with a conclusion then someone else will repeat the study and it'll come to a different conclusion like well i guess right i guess that didn't work yeah you know so i know it's pretty crazy um speaking of science and studies and stuff um we you know we'll get questions on uh like skin stuff we have a large female audience in alaska it's like what actually moves the needle the most for improving the health uh of your skin the way it looks or whatever and there's a few things you can do but none of them compare besides being healthy i gotta say that right being healthy is the best thing you can do for your skin but the red light therapy is by far most of like nothing

32:47Sal Di Stefano:comes that's by far the so another way to say that is the most uh by far intervention yes so like nothing beats diet yes good sleep diet stress management exercise like that that's obviously

33:00Adam Schafer:nothing touches right but the but the thing you could do on top of that yeah the greatest intervention you get a juve red light panel uh within a week within a week you notice a difference

33:11Sal Di Stefano:oh i feel like you within a couple a session or two of doing it you can see it makes a huge

33:15Adam Schafer:difference it moves the needle the most uh out of everything so for people who want to change their the appearance of their skin and make it look younger like you get a red light panel use that three days a week bro that's gonna crush everything i remember i think it was mercola

33:28Justin Andrews:because way back when I was looking at like because it just sounded like wizardry yeah yeah and he was like really kind of challenging it and going through and the studies are so airtight yep and it was just amazing they go back all yeah way back oh it's the 70s it's it's so

33:46Sal Di Stefano:um accepted though ever I mean Doug would did you guys hear Doug talking about uh Brianna he just dropped Brianna off at her new place oh yeah and they're like college campus condos or whatever like that and inside their gym is red light therapy oh yeah wow they have a room dedicated to red light oh wow yeah no it's full i mean it's recovery rooms and stuff are getting big in gyms everywhere it's yeah really it's so not uncommon to see in fact most all your big name gyms all have have it now which is so crazy to think that right because the studies go back pretty far you talk about mccola and so that i mean he's been talking about it for an all time red light studies

34:24Adam Schafer:Let's go back to the 70s.

34:25Sal Di Stefano:And then I remember when we first met with you, I remember you going through the studies. You're like, man, these are studies way back when. So this has been happening for a long, but man, it didn't take until not that long ago.

34:35Adam Schafer:It didn't take because just 20 years ago, if you wanted like a legit red light panel, like the ones in studies, oh yeah, you could spend 20 grand. Yeah. So the only way to get red light therapy, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, you'd go to an expensive salon that had them and then you'd pay, you know, 50 or 100 bucks per session.

34:53Justin Andrews:isn't it kind of typical though it's like uh you know the gym industry in itself was so focused on you know the workouts and like that's the the priority and then all of a sudden we realize oh shit like recovery is really where you get everything from and so now they're just highlighting all the interventions instead of like the actual way to recover you know it's funny because the

35:12Adam Schafer:recovery means don't come here i'm the gym yeah hey go rest more like wait we need to we want them to come we want you here resting how do they recover more here did you guys see here's a hammock

35:22Sal Di Stefano:and here's a red light. Did you guys see the clip that Doug sent over of the experiences and the hospitality? No, I didn't see that. Oh, it was a good clip. You guys should have watched it. What's he talking about? It was a really good breakdown. Just a prediction on the surge in hospitality. Yeah. So you're going to see one of the largest booms we've ever seen in hospitality. Oh, wow. And as AI becomes more and more prevalent in our regular day, more and more people are wanting to experience in-person type experiences of course and so hence the gyms exploding wellness exploding right now and going that direction but you say even like clubs and lounges and pool party places and what you see happening even like avac and stuff like that oh yeah just blow it's just blowing up right now and and what it is it's like that's cool we're using more and more of this technology, which is great, you know, and everybody's starting to adopt it in business.

36:23Adam Schafer:Well, you have to go out of your way to build community and be social. That's just it. It just doesn't happen as a default of your life anymore. Yes. It used to be that way. It used to be your daily life included social components because you're just around people. Well, yeah. You go weeks without seeing anybody.

36:38Sal Di Stefano:No, yeah. A classic example of, I mean, it's the stuff that so many people have just now adopted is like getting Instacart or DoorDash your groceries. I mean, there was a time when like you wanted groceries, you had to go to the grocery store and you had to see other people and say hi and talk to a cashier. And I mean, you could literally not do that ever again. And more and more people, I think, have adopted things like that. And I think you just take it for granted. You start to stack those things before you know it. I mean, go into the movies. I mean, see it even in my own son who will pass on going to a new movie release because he knows it'll come out at home and he'd rather watch the convenience of and stream it from home.

37:18Sal Di Stefano:You know, it's just like, it's just more and more of these things that -

37:21Adam Schafer:Well, the norm -

37:21Sal Di Stefano:I hope that comes back.

37:22Adam Schafer:The norm used to be when you were a kid, there was nothing to do unless you went outside and played with the other kids. That wasn't that long ago. It was a few, you know, a couple decades ago. But you just, this is, I want to hang out with someone. I got to go outside. If you needed something, you would go to your neighbor and ask them, you know, the old, hey, can I borrow a cup of sugar type of deal? And then most of society attended some kind of a religious service once a week, which is a big community thing. We worked with each other. So remote work is very common now in comparison to how uncommon it used to be.

37:57Adam Schafer:It didn't really exist. It didn't even exist. And then on top of it, we were so entertained when we're alone that it kind of takes away the sting of boredom. and so uh yeah it makes sense to me that now services that organize social interactions

38:15Sal Di Stefano:are going to explode i mean it goes back to the thing i think i've said on this podcast many times when we're when we're debating trends or societal stuff and it's like we always allow the pendulum to swing one extreme and then and then i feel like the and i think this is a positive thing This is the thing that always makes me feel good about humanity is that as bad as it can be and that we talk about things that are going on, we only let it go so far. And then I feel like the trend comes back the other direction. Now, it tends to counterswing really hard the other way. And that's kind of just what.

38:52Sal Di Stefano:But I feel like that's kind of always what happens. And this is an example of that. Like we, you know, all this AI stuff's coming. And then of course all the fear mongering around it and like, oh my God, we're all going to, no one's going to have jobs and everybody's going to be just, no one's going to talk to each other. And it's just like, okay, yeah, maybe for a little bit, maybe all of us will experience a little bit of what that is. And then we'll realize like, oh, this doesn't feel good. I don't like it.

39:15Adam Schafer:Well, I like the direction that gyms are going. I really think it's cool. I think gyms are going in a direction of socialization.

39:23Sal Di Stefano:So I wonder, you've been saying this. And now after seeing that clip that Doug sent, I have kind of a different take on like, does it fully explode or were gyms just smart enough to be the first to pick up on this trend of this like hospitality direction? and they're benefiting from being on the front end of this wave? And does other businesses like, say, the Ritz and companies like that and other companies start to realize like, oh, we're missing an opportunity right here to be in the mix of this? And then does some of that market share get taken from the gyms?

40:02Adam Schafer:I don't know how they'll take it. I think so. Well, I don't know because gyms are in a perfect position to do this. Like one of the things that – so to be social without actually having an activity to do, it's hard to get people out of the house to do that. Like, hey, go hang out with people. Like, no. Hey, go play pickleball. Okay. Or, hey, go hang out and do this workout class or join this hiking group or then, you know, maybe a reading club. I don't know. Maybe libraries will come back because of that. But my point is, I don't see people just going out to be around people unless there's something to do.

40:37Adam Schafer:And gyms are, you know, it's like the old country club model except smaller.

40:40Justin Andrews:It makes me think, too, because I've been watching on HBO. They did a documentary on Burning Man. And, like, it's interesting to see, like, the potential. People, like, getting this crazy experience from it. It's really just human connection that's been lost for them. and like this like bare bones, like I have to like figure out how to interact with people and like the weather is crazy and this is crazy. And then, you know, and we're appreciating people's gifts and art and stuff that they're bringing here. Obviously there's a drug sex and all that kind of stuff. You know, they didn't really get into that in the documentary, of course, which I was like.

41:17Justin Andrews:Minor detail. I was just, yeah, I was curious. It's curious to watch it from afar because I've never been. I know, you know. Doug's been there. Doug's been there. Doug's been burning that guy. He could probably chime in, but.

41:25Sal Di Stefano:uh it looked cool like yeah he's got a lifetime membership i understand the appeal of it it being

41:32Justin Andrews:like you know people really like dedicating like this this idea of like a like a piece that people are going to benefit from and it's like outside themselves and they're just thinking of other people really in a sense and uh and then i was like man i wonder if because of this documentary guarantee is going to blow up even more people are going to go yeah yeah you know uh because of the way they portrayed it uh but then also it's like you know in the 60s there's this big revolution and stuff where people are hanging out and like it's like free love and all it's like i wonder if there's gonna be like an underground kind of hippie thing i i think so i think that's

42:07Sal Di Stefano:i think that's a pretty good speculation i think what sal had been calling and noticing about in the gym space for a while now and what we're seeing and the reason why we saw them is because is the people that probably were the most resistant to being antisocial are the wellness and fitness people because they're aware of how unhealthy that can be. Everybody else is like, cool, new technology. Oh, cool. If you're not a fitness person, you're not thinking of the unhealthy things of AI. You're not thinking from that perspective. Fitness and health people are understanding that, right? So I think what they did was they caught the front end of a wave, a wave that was going to happen with or without them, and they're benefiting from that right now.

42:48Adam Schafer:I agree. And I also think gyms are one of the few semi-social places that are just like that on accident. Yeah. Like there's very few gyms. I don't know of any gyms that you could sign up where you're the only guy in there.

42:58Justin Andrews:Well, it's like everybody's there to improve themselves. You want to be around that kind of energy. And it's really hard to find that available until people come up with other places for you to do that.

43:11Adam Schafer:And it kind of happens on accident. Like if you go to a gym and you're consistent, you're probably consistent on the same days and the same times, right? So you're probably consistent Monday, Wednesday, Friday at five o 'clock or whatever. You start to recognize the same people because the people who are also consistent also go at the same time you do, right? Every time you've got their own. And so what naturally happens, I know this because I ran gyms, what naturally happens is you might go in with zero intention of building community. You're just like, I got to get in shape. But you go at the same time, same days, every week, and you're very consistent because you're trying to get in shape, and you see the same people.

43:43Adam Schafer:And before you know it, you give them a head nod. Unconsciously, you're motivating somebody else. That's right. You talk to them. Next thing you know, you're part of the 5 a.m. crew or whatever. Every gym has this. So I think that gyms just naturally were doing it on accident and they're like, oh wait, this might actually work.

43:57Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I think they saw it, leaned into it and they're riding the wave. What I'm curious about because I'm trying to, I don't know.

44:04Adam Schafer:Yeah, what's going to compete with that?

44:05Sal Di Stefano:Well, yeah. Well, I mean, there's a lot of things. Right now, gyms are -

44:08Adam Schafer:Bars are going down, But I bet those go back up.

44:11Sal Di Stefano:That's what the prediction of this guy is. He says bars will go back up. Oh, yeah. Bars, all those things, because people are going to want. They'll come back. Which, I tell you what, I mean, somebody who's an investor would be a smart player right now, because they're probably discounted because of the downturn of drinking.

44:25Adam Schafer:Do you know how big of a piece of English culture, I know this because my wife's family's British, how big of a part of their, I don't know if it's still this way, probably still is, but how big a part of their culture that pubs are? Oh, yeah. Where like after work, every day, every day you go to the pub and you socialize with your friends and you go home.

44:46Sal Di Stefano:Well, wasn't it you or was it my other buddy who was out that way? Don't they do a thing where like at one or a certain time they close the pubs, but they keep it going on inside? So it's like if you're partying in there, you're going. Oh, at night, yeah. So it'll go all night, but then you can't leave and drive. At a certain time, yeah, you can't drive. They lock you in. Yeah, so it's like at 1 o 'clock, it's like you either stay or go. You know what I'm saying? But if you want to keep going, we're going. But then the door's shut and you've got to stay or some shit. To prevent, like, drunk driving?

45:14Sal Di Stefano:I don't know. I thought Justin was the one that told me that.

45:17Justin Andrews:I think so. Yeah, I'm trying to remember. I think it might have been Ireland, but yeah.

45:21Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I think it's – I don't know. I thought someone was like, oh, that's interesting. I mean, talk about a pub culture or drinking culture where that's like – it could be a norm. Interesting. You're staying all night. Let's go. All right. And people actually do it. But I don't know it. So they locked the doors. I mean, they locked me in. Yes, the traditional pub lock-in is a real invite-only custom. Isn't that interesting?

45:41Adam Schafer:It says, it is an after-hours gathering of trusted regulars, not a legal practice. Because serving alcohol after official licensing hours is generally illegal. Ah, okay. Then bartenders lock the doors to stop new customers from entering while allowing the most loyal patrons. Yeah, the patrons to just get smashed and sleep in. The real alcoholics. You guys are going to stay there. That's kind of cool, though, right? Amateurs can leave, you know.

46:02Sal Di Stefano:That's crazy. Oh, yeah, United Kingdom and Ireland, so that's where it's at.

46:06Adam Schafer:Dude, did you guys see the video of the 16-year-old lifeguard? Yeah, I did. Saving? Yeah.

46:11Sal Di Stefano:Actually, it was giving me anxiety watching it. Bro.

46:14Adam Schafer:First of all, how old was the kid that he saved? Oh. 13? 13, I think. Something like that, 12, 13? Obviously younger. But he's 16. Yeah. Dude, he's out there diving in. Just weathering it. And the waves were nasty. Where were they?

46:29Justin Andrews:The waves. I don't know. I don't know if there was some kind of storm elsewhere where we got this crazy swell where it wasn't just regular swell coming in with waves. It was from multiple directions. So you'd have one crash your toe, another crashing, and then it would be all at different times. Yeah, and the riptide was insane.

46:49Adam Schafer:I didn't know this was at Seabright. This was in Santa Cruz. He's a local hero.

46:53Sal Di Stefano:Am I saying that wrong? Is there a difference between riptide and undertow? I think it's the same. I thought undertow was when your nail is.

47:00Justin Andrews:Well, it pulls you in regardless as it's pulling you into the ocean.

47:04Sal Di Stefano:I thought you were correcting me also. I didn't know. I was like, oh, shit, is that not? What is he not calling it undertow? I see Justin's undertow. I don't know.

47:09Adam Schafer:I'm just saying it in a different way. And a riptide are different water movements. An undertow is a brief downward pull of water under a breaking wave, while a riptide or rip current is a strong narrow channel of water moving fast away from shore. So they are different. Okay. Interesting. Well, there you go. But, dude, I watched the video. I think it was a combination of both, right?

47:25Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I really had that. I heard riptide, you heard undertow.

47:28Adam Schafer:Did you know that the kid that he was trying to save had passed out?

47:31Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, you could tell. I mean, I could tell by he looked unconscious. And he was holding on to him and just diving on the water. Because the way he was pulling on his arm, the kid was not, like, getting up and up himself.

47:41Justin Andrews:I don't know how many seconds, but he only had a few seconds to even just get up, get air, hold him, and then, boom, hits him again. Multiple times. So he's apparently a water polo player. Oh, and apparently, too, like, that wasn't even the craziest save he made. that was kind of a bunch that day. Oh, no way. Yeah, there was a bunch. Courtney showed me a few articles. No way. They interviewed him, and he was like, yeah, nobody was filming the craziest one. I was like, he basically recovered and then went out and did it again. Oh, my gosh. So, I mean, this kid's a champion.

48:18Adam Schafer:Bro, talk about he risked his own life to save some 10-year-old. It was a 10-year-old kid. He doesn't even know.

48:23Justin Andrews:10-year-old.

48:23Adam Schafer:But, yeah, I read an article. I guess he's a water polo player. and I forgot what position he played. Does it matter? Yeah, there's a position in water polo where you're constantly getting battered. Oh. Well, first off.

48:34Sal Di Stefano:It's like one of the most physical, grueling sports.

48:37Adam Schafer:Have you ever trained a water polo player? Have you guys ever trained one? No. I have. Yeah. Okay. Water polo players, it's like they have the most brutal practices ever. Yeah. They are out there for hours and hours. Their stamina is ridiculous. Sure. They get the crap. And what goes on underneath the water is crazy, dude, I guess.

48:56Justin Andrews:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the kicking and pinching and, you know, whatever else.

49:00Adam Schafer:But he got invited to the White House. You guys know that? Oh, he did. Yeah, him and his family.

49:04Sal Di Stefano:I guess he's getting an award or something like that. Pretty cool. That's cool. That's wild, though, that he had other saves that weren't that.

49:09Adam Schafer:Dude, how popular do you think this kid is in high school right now? He's 16. He goes back to school. Yeah, he's a mess. Oh, my God.

49:17Justin Andrews:Well, that brings up, too, like I've been watching this other documentary. It was like Seeking the 100-Foot Wave. uh garrett macknamara i think is how you say his name um it's interesting to to hear the whole origin of like big wave surfing because this wasn't like a thing for a long time until they figured out how to basically like tow them in with a jet ski oh because it was just like impossible so dangerous and like to get out is like insane you really have to have like safety measures and so a lot of this was just like over the past you know decade or so has just been developing is like you know this brand new sport and so he's one of like the pioneers of this whole thing started in hawaii i would say he then he came over looking for bigger waves came over this is where you started to see too around the world you started to see even like plays like in ireland and like they have huge waves but like you know it's like freezing water and nobody's out there like you know oh i love the surf in this weather you know they're seeking like these crazy like stormy waves uh but he's the one that found like nazareh so this guy like what's nazareh This is in – what country is that that's like right next to Spain?

50:29Justin Andrews:Portugal. Portugal, thank you. I was going to say Peru. It's not Peru. Portugal. Portugal. And so there's this one like point where like the lighthouses gets these crazy waves to hit. And I guess because of this huge valley that is really deep and then kind of comes up perfectly, meets at this pinnacle, it creates these crazy waves that could reach about 100 feet high. Oh, my God. That's crazy. People surf that? So they never did. Fishermen would go out there, and there's all these stories of them dying and crazy stuff.

51:12Sal Di Stefano:I mean, falling off of 100 feet, you're dead, right? I think isn't 100 feet enough? If you hit water after 100 feet, you're dead.

51:17Justin Andrews:I mean, it's literally like a high-rise building. Look at the picture. Yeah. What are you doing? Dude, if you watch this, you get all the anxiety. It's crazy to watch. So he actually had to navigate when they would get these types of waves to come and form. And they went into a lot of the science of the oceanography of how when this is going to happen, like what the conditions are going to be all this and uh you know laid the blueprint went out there himself you know and almost drowned a few times and then they figured out how to like get spotters uh outside and they would like have bullhorns and and tell because you know the person that's on jet ski can't find him right away he only gets a few seconds where his head's like popping out and so they like you know direct them god and like it was just amazing to see how this all developed to even be able to surf that for one.

52:11Justin Andrews:And then they start breaking records there with like the biggest waves ever.

52:16Sal Di Stefano:Was it, was it, was this an older documentary? Is it, is it pretty new? Yeah. It's really good,

52:21Justin Andrews:dude. And I'm not doing it injustice. It's like they go through this. Cause I've watched an older one of it.

52:25Sal Di Stefano:I watched an older one, but I don't, this must be like a new record, huh?

52:30Justin Andrews:Yeah. So he's still a hundred foot wave. He's a psycho. He's still going for it. And he's a, he's an older guy. That's,

52:35Adam Schafer:that's my biggest like fear. My, like one of my most, my biggest kind of normal natural fears is water and that right there in particular being out in the water with crazy with a crazy wave yes you ever watch videos of like uh ships massive ships in the ocean storms yeah and you'll see from the from where the captain is and how they'll go over a wave this and just it's like they fall off a cliff or you see like this they're like they

53:00Sal Di Stefano:it's completely sideways the wave coming over the top of it dude this is one clip of of and so he

53:05Justin Andrews:had got all confident because he had like mastered like nasrae and all this he went back to mavericks and mavericks is like huge waves too but like you know it was like overconfident because he's like ah this is no you know no big deal didn't get towed in ended up doing it without getting towed in so he was a little bit like late on the on the break of it yeah and just just the crest of it smashed down and he ended up like skipping like a skipping rock boom boom boom and like totally obliterated uh he broke all kinds of bones and everything and i was like oh my god

53:39Sal Di Stefano:it was it was what's what's wild is how uh is that people do that how great well yeah i know how crazy it looks from our perspective so have you ever been on like um when you are being under it is so different oh yeah so like when you're like it's like when i don't know how many times i've like gone to go like ski something that's like a like a double black diamond or something And when you're like looking at it from afar, it's like, that's not that bad. And then when you get over the top of it and you look and you go down and you're looking down. Oh my God. It's a, so I can't imagine. Dude, just hairs on the back of my neck.

54:12Sal Di Stefano:Oh yeah. It has to probably, it has to feel similar to being on like the top of like a crazy high rise building. Skyscraper. It's pro.

54:21Adam Schafer:What would that, what's that called? Pro surfing. What's that called? That does that. Yeah. It's big wave surfing. Big wave surfing. Does that have a high death rate?

54:28Justin Andrews:Yeah, I mean, they've had deaths for sure. I don't know what the rate is. I think the highest is what, the squirrel suit people?

54:34Adam Schafer:That's got the highest death rate, right? It is. Where they jump and they jump.

54:37Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember that documentary where like a bunch of them died? At the end of it, over half it died. Yeah, that was something crazy like that.

54:45Adam Schafer:The overall death rate for surfing, including big wave surfing, is statistically extremely low. Yeah. 10 to 20 fatalities globally per year. You know why, though? Yeah, but they're counting everybody.

54:54Sal Di Stefano:Well, it's because nobody does it. Nobody does. I know. Who's going to attempt that? Yeah, there's not a lot of people doing it.

54:58Adam Schafer:I didn't know Mavericks was at Half Moon Bay. You didn't know that?

55:01Justin Andrews:No. You've never been up there? No. Oh, you got to go up there, dude, when they have a six wall. It's so cool. Does it just look crazy? Crazy. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. You get a real feel for it, at least even from if you're close and you're watching them come in, you're like, I can't believe anybody's out there right now. This is insane. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah.

55:20Adam Schafer:Adam, I was going to ask you, because I heard you off air before we started the show, you were talking about the protein cereal from Legion. Oh, Legion. What are the macros on that?

55:27Sal Di Stefano:They're really good. Does anybody know? Yeah, they're really good. A bowl ends up being like close to like 40, I think. I want to say like, well, with the milk. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like a good size bowl for me. Can you find the macros? I got it right here. Oh, what is it?

55:38Justin Andrews:One serving, 170 calories, 17 grams of protein.

55:42Sal Di Stefano:So 17 grams of protein. 15 grams of carbs. Yeah, that's like a half a cup of cereal or a quarter. One and a quarter cups. Yeah, so that's not even a bowl of cereal. Wow. A bowl of cereal.

55:52Adam Schafer:Wow, and it's got seven to eight grams of fiber in that serving. so you could do 35 grams of protein you know you did two of those and you would have 16 grams of fiber with the that is gotta it's gotta produce some good satiety i would imagine it is good

56:06Sal Di Stefano:what legion did really good is a lot if you i don't know how many protein cereals you guys have tried i've tried a bunch of them um they get stuck in your teeth they're really like the tech they just because they're healthy for you they don't have a lot of the crap in there and so the texture is tough they nailed the texture it doesn't get all uh-huh uh-huh it's like the the cereal what's the protein it is a whey it's got to be whey most likely i believe so let me check that it's most

56:32Adam Schafer:likely that it's most likely that i've tried so i can't do dairy right but i've tried plant-based

56:36Sal Di Stefano:protein cereals gross i got they're terrible they are terrible i got my um my digestive enzymes that you had me get yeah you know it's uh so does it help you it did i had i mean i had so i had it So I'm having whey and then vitamin D milk. And so that would be an example and a big bowl. That's a lot of dairy for you. It's just a lot in one shot. And it never, I could do it, but I definitely felt way better taking those. What I noticed though, I didn't know, and now I know why you take so many of them, only one pill is per five grams of protein. Yeah. So you got to take quite a few of them. So I got to get a much bigger bottle than what I got.

57:12Adam Schafer:I just also really, to be honest with you,

57:14Sal Di Stefano:I just overdo supplements. I don't really count. Well, no, it says on the bottom. One's good, five. It says on the bottle that one pill is for five grams of protein. So if I have a 50-gram protein meal, that's 10. So you got to take 10 pills. Yeah, I only took six. I'm like, I don't want to overdo it the first time. And who knows what the opposite was. So I was like, let me ease into it. And so I took six with it. And I was like, oh, wow, that felt really good. So that's going to be my new thing is to try and be disciplined to the times that I do have.

57:42Adam Schafer:You know what I did the other night? Because dairy for me is the worst of all the things that can bother me. I can get away with gluten a little bit. You know, nowadays, now that my gut's a lot better. Dairy, I just got to stay away from it. It's going to hurt me no matter what. But what I did the other night, because I don't have dairy, is I ordered, my wife called it salami bread, because I ordered a pizza with no cheese. And I know that when I send that order. Can you do that? For sure the guy making it is looking at this going, what?

58:09Sal Di Stefano:I feel like the guy who makes the pizza with no cheese is like the guy when my wife orders a well-done steak at a steakhouse. Like the chef is like, dude, it's. This is absolute sin. You know what I'm saying? As he's like grilled and burning the sauce. He's just smashing it in there. The pizza guy's going like, what kind of moron? Yeah, the pizza guy's like, what kind of moron? No cheese. I've heard of an all cheese pizza, but no cheese pizza.

58:30Adam Schafer:It's literally a piece of bread with sauce, and then it's like salami, sausage, olives. It's like, is it okay? My wife's like, how's your salami bread? I'm like, it's not bad. I kind of want to try it. I'm curious. I mean, it's still good. It's not pizza, but it's good.

58:43Justin Andrews:It's not bad. So gluten actually isn't as like, Because if you're going to compare the two in terms of reaction, dairy's worse. Yes.

58:50Adam Schafer:Gluten, what gluten will do to me is it'll, I'll get inflamed a little bit. If I eat a lot of gluten, I'll hold water. You guys will see it. I'll come in here and you guys will be like, what happened to Sal's face? Yeah, like Jordan Peterson. Thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate it. I'm so glad we pinned that to the top. I'm just saying. It's not like you. Every time I see that, I'm like, what was going on there, bro? No, it'll slow down my digestion at first. So at first it seems like it's not bothering me, but I'm slightly slowed down. Let's just say that. And then a day or two later, then I have a bad stomach.

59:22Adam Schafer:So it takes about a day or two. Dairy is right out the gates pretty much. Like I'll eat it and then pretty much I'm not going to have a good time for a little while.

59:32Sal Di Stefano:Oh, wow. Interesting. I got something right now. So you guys know my squirrel issue that I had not that long ago. So I have this new thing.

59:43Adam Schafer:Where you're going to battle with the squirrels. Yeah. I'm not going to battle.

59:47Sal Di Stefano:I lost. It's already over. War's over. War's over. I got no peaches. Zero. So they are. They got them all. They won. Until next year. So we're. The battle is lost, but the war is still going. There you go. Yeah, yeah. I definitely lost this battle. I lost a lot of deer this year. But I've got a new one on me right now. And I'm not 100 % sure. I'm pretty sure it's my neighbor's cats. They've got three cats that roam. And he or she, I'm not sure, pisses on my car, on top of my car. No, they don't. Yes. Of all places. The same car. The same car. Only one car of mine. Oh, my God, bro. Yeah, only one car of mine.

1:00:32Sal Di Stefano:The one I'd be most upset. You're so mad. The one I'd be most upset about this.

1:00:35Adam Schafer:You're so mad right now. Dude, the first three. That's the worst. if you ever piss on anything of Adam's, the worst would be his car. What is so weird... You can piss on his clothes.

1:00:47Sal Di Stefano:It's on the back of it, on the top.

1:00:51Adam Schafer:And cat pee smells.

1:00:53Sal Di Stefano:It is the most annoying. And it is consistent as hell. So if I don't cover, so I cover it most of the time, but then I uncover it. Yes. And it's in the same spot in the back. And I thought it was birds. I thought it was birds that first started happening. I told Katrina. Did you watch on the camera or something? Well, so originally, the way I back the car up, I back it up so that my overhang of the house shades the car for most of the day. So I back it up. so I thought it was a bird that was perching sure and pissing down and I'm just like oh my god what is and it only started happening when I when I had that car didn't happen in any other car it's only this car doesn't like your car and so I thought what that is so weird and so it started happened three four times in a row and I'm like I'm complaining to Katrina and I'm like well this sucks the whole reason why I back it up so I get that shade now I'm having to pull it out so I don't get the shade so I don't get but then the piss is still coming so I'm like okay there's no way a bird is still hitting it perfect like that after i've now moved it because i thought it made sense if it was perched and that was but then i moved i moved it forward five feet and i'm still getting the piss in the same spot of the car every single day and so it's like it's got to be these cats because i've seen the cats paw prints before on like the hood of the cars when they're dusty or whatever so it's got to be cats when your car's still warm mine always like tries to get on i'm like no oh maybe that's well the engine's in the back where's the engine yeah that's where the engine's at, but because it's mid engine, but I'm not driving it.

1:02:31Sal Di Stefano:Like it's, I don't drive it as much. It just doesn't like your car, dude. Hmm. I, I, it's only that one. It is only, none of the other ones. You haven't seen it on camera yet? Well. No. I've been, I've tried to catch it, but the cats are sneaky enough. They don't sit the sensors off.

1:02:45Adam Schafer:They're ninjas. Yeah. Wow. So there's no sensor, just pee. Yes. Yikes. Look at some demon. Cat demon. I'm so angry though. It's so, it's so funny.

1:02:54Justin Andrews:I had some pet piss problems as of late. That's a triple P right there. Triple P, dude. That came out. Pet piss problems. Pet piss problems. And we're speculating, too. So my dog, Arlo, he likes peaches. He likes plums. He likes all this. And I'm always putting them on leash now because he'll take off and go down to the junior high and eat out of trash cans. And he's a real problem. them and so i'm always the one that's like consistently put them on the leash and this and that and courtney sometimes just like ah you know just like lets them out i'm like what are you doing you know like you know where he's gonna go and uh sure enough he goes down he like he's just eaten like all these peaches and plums and all stuff comes back his breast smells like like fermented fruit you know anyways he's sleeping the other night and it was like a a really bright like full moon and two in the morning gets up just peeing all over like you know next to

1:03:58Sal Di Stefano:my side of the bed in the house in the house in the house oh my god he never does that like

1:04:03Justin Andrews:you know hasn't in a while at least and just like there's just this part i'm like oh no we're just getting up trying to get towels clean the whole thing taking them outside bro that dog how is he I hate that dog, bro.

1:04:16Adam Schafer:He's done so many things to you.

1:04:17Justin Andrews:Listen. Yeah. Dude, I don't know what to do. Because I can't just get. I'm looking for places that would take him in. I'm that guy. I'm looking for people. Hey, you want a dog? He's really sweet. He's great. He has little quirks.

1:04:36Sal Di Stefano:A little quirks.

1:04:38Justin Andrews:Little problems here and there. He likes to wrestle skunks.

1:04:41Adam Schafer:He pisses in your house. Remember when he looked at Justin in the face and crapped in his shoe? Yes. While he was looking at him in the face. Right when I was walking, bro, I would have lost that dog camping a long time ago.

1:04:53Sal Di Stefano:I just, I feel like he's my rage training.

1:04:57Justin Andrews:He's my rage training. You know, so I don't, you know, I actually, like, I'm more prone to like, ah, and I just hold back with him. I feel like he gets that out of me, so I'm not like that with my kids. and i've held myself from like destroying him you know i'm like oh but i don't you know we're

1:05:16Sal Di Stefano:i work through it my my my wife thinks that it has something to do with the way i but where i am with nature you know she's a little more woo than i am right so she's like this this pushing back yeah the squirrel thing was because i killed the squirrel like we never got that much like we would get we'd lose some peaches but she's like once you killed the squirrel then they all went back and told the rest of them and now they ate all of our peaches and so she and the cats so back uh so if i don't know if you ever it's like the planet on avatar like all nature now yeah and so so in my backyard in my backyard i have all this uh i have uh white cushion furniture which you know is already tough to keep clean stuff that and if i if i don't put if you ever come to my house you ever notice that and if you guys have ever noticed this when you come in the daytime if we're not out there with a party my cushions are all up i tilt them all up like this and the reason why i do that is because those stupid cats will sleep on them then i get cat hair all over my all my furniture so i gotta do that every night if after we have companies i gotta put all the things all up so so a cat won't sleep on there also he'll sleep on it and so anytime that cat's in my backyard i yell at it throw a rock at it do whatever like that just shoot out of shoot out of our backyard so he knows he's not welcome there and so katrina thinks that's why he's pissing on my car now so that's what it that's so i bring on the squirrel eating all of our peaches i bring on the cat pissing on my car and so i now i don't know what to believe anymore did i ever

1:06:40Adam Schafer:tell you this might be a horrible story to share but i'm gonna share it anyway this is like just a disclaimer this is old school like i guess sicilian justice i guess you would say when we were kids so I was young. We went to Sicily to visit my dad's parents. Now remember, these are my grandparents. They're not alive anymore, but they're like old school, poor Sicilians. Okay. So that's just the, just everybody picture this. Okay. We went to visit them. Uh, and we were there for, uh, I think it was like the whole summer. It's like two months or something like that. And there was this dog that the neighbor had and it was an aggressive dog.

1:07:16Adam Schafer:So when we were outside playing, the dog would, you know, bark, bark, bark, and then like scare everybody. Well, anyway, my grandfather hated that dog because that dog had tried to bite one of his other grandkids before. And he said, if that dog tries to bite anybody else, I'm going to kill that dog. Remember he told me that. So anyway, we were out there playing and we went inside. My sister was still out there. She started screaming. The dog came out their garage and bit at her ankle. And then the neighbor comes out, my grandfather comes out and he was remarkably i remember as a kid i'm always gonna fight my grandfather's come out and fight this guy he was calm he was scary he was like he looked at the guy and he shook his head and he kind of like wow he didn't even get no no didn't get and he had a bad temper he's like he didn't get mad or anything it was weird the dog died a few days later oh i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure my grandfather did something oh i'm pretty sure i remember i remember you know because he was so calm he came inside dude he came inside you know i remember we're all hanging out we're having dinner.

1:08:15Adam Schafer:This is like three, four days later. And my grandfather's like, that dog's not going to bite anybody. Yeah, exactly. And he says it all. He drops it like that all covered. That dog will never bother anybody again. You notice how quiet it is outside? Like, what are you talking about? That dog has died. He died. I'm like, what do you mean he died? I don't know. I'm like, oh my God. Sleeps with the fishes. Did you kill the dog? What's going on here, dude? Oh man. Anyway. I don't know if he did it or not, but let's just say there was no investigation. So I'm excited to share with you guys C15 from Fatty15.

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1:09:23Adam Schafer:So Fatty15, it's science-backed. It's award-winning. It's patented. It works. I've used it myself. I notice less inflammation in particular when I take it on a daily basis. Go check them out. Go to fatty15.com slash mindpump. That's fatty15.com slash mindpump. And on that link, you get yourself hooked up. And use the code mindpump at checkout for a discount. Here comes the show.

1:09:49Justin Andrews:Our first caller is Amber from Texas.

1:09:52Adam Schafer:Hey, how you doing, Amber?

1:09:54Justin Andrews:Hey, guys, I'm doing pretty good. A little nervous.

1:09:57Adam Schafer:That's all right. So what's going on? Give us an update. We talked to you, what, a month ago?

1:10:03Justin Andrews:Yes. So this is the third update. And since then, I listened to the advice. I'd like to say not half-assed it this time. Adam's so surprised.

1:10:16Sal Di Stefano:I'm pretty sure we hung up, and I'm like, she's not listening to us. I know.

1:10:20Justin Andrews:No, I didn't say that I wasn't going to listen to you.

1:10:23Sal Di Stefano:No, I said that. I think I said that.

1:10:26Justin Andrews:What I said in Spanish was, I'm afraid that they're going to, what is the word in English, scold me again? Oh. But I did lower the dose and then I've been off my GLP. I have gained weight. I have I don't know how much because, again, I'm not weighing myself, but the clothes that were falling off of me, they fit now. So my clothes are fitting better and I'm getting stronger with my workouts. I haven't changed my workouts and it could be the testosterone, too, but I've done that. And I do have more energy so much so that I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but I really love dancing like it's my life.

1:11:01Justin Andrews:and I've been able to have more energy to dance again. So I've been given, I've been asked to be, to give some more dance classes. So yeah, I got off of it and I've gained weight. Not happy about it, but I have gained weight.

1:11:14Adam Schafer:Amber, great job. There's more in your email. Is it okay if I read a little bit of it?

1:11:19Justin Andrews:Yeah, please.

1:11:20Adam Schafer:It says that you're now working with somebody virtually to talk with about the body dysmorphia and all that.

1:11:26Justin Andrews:Yes. So not too long after our conversation, our follow-up, I started seeing a different therapist through my work. And actually, I did even mention you guys. I mentioned the podcast because I was telling her, this is why I'm gaining weight before the surgery. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have gotten off the GLP. I would have just kind of been going in the same trajectory. And I'm actually meeting with her later today. So, you know, just to talk about why I have these feelings. I mean, my life is a novella, so she has her work cut out for her. But that is one of the things that we're covering.

1:11:56Adam Schafer:That's awesome. So, Amber, great job. Yep. Really, really good job. And I just, just, first off, I want to encourage you and then I'm going to prepare you a little bit. Is that okay? Okay. I want to encourage you because, uh, you did a very hard thing. You did a very difficult thing. You got off the GLP, you're eating more, you're not weighing yourself. Um, and you're talking with somebody, uh, about some of these challenges. Now, just to prepare you, it gets really hard about 60 to 90 days in, uh, or maybe a little bit after that. So in the beginning, these changes kind of feel good. You're like, okay, I got energy.

1:12:30Adam Schafer:Getting started is difficult. You got over that hump. And then what happens is we tend to fool ourselves because we're like, I feel good. I got great energy. This is awesome. And you start to compromise some of the things that you have decided that you're not going to do or do now. And it starts small, but then the compromises become larger and larger. And so I want to just encourage you. It will get more difficult. You may take a couple steps back, but when you do just, okay, I'm going to get back on. I'm going to do this again. Give yourself grace. That's what this journey looks like. It doesn't look like a solve.

1:13:03Adam Schafer:I'm good. It's awesome. It looks like, okay, things are good. I'm awesome. Uh-oh, this is hard. Uh-oh, this sucks. Let me do a little bit here, a little bit there. Uh, but if you get down on yourself, um, and you start to feel shame, that spiral really starts to accelerate. So you just get, you give yourself grace and remind yourself. And what might help is you say, oh yeah, Sal told me this would happen. This is expected. It's expected. It's normal. Let's get back on.

1:13:29Justin Andrews:Yeah. Well, I mean, you guys have helped me a lot over the years. I want to say I've been listening for 10, 11 years. And first you helped me with like not weighing myself. That was a big one. Cause I used to weigh myself. Like when I was in the real thick of it, I want to say after every meal 10 times a day. And then you guys helped me focus on getting stronger so much so that I even did a power lifting competition. I didn't do well, but I did it. And then, you know, with not tracking, that was a big one for me because I've been tracking for over 24 years. So I trust you guys. It's not always easy, but I do appreciate the help that you've given me, even if it's, you know, not something I want to hear, but I appreciate it.

1:14:02Justin Andrews:You're doing good. You're doing good. It's awesome.

1:14:03Adam Schafer:And Amber, we were just talking, we saw your name come up and then we remembered when we met you, how long ago was it we met you in person?

1:14:09Justin Andrews:nine ten years ago it was when you guys had that live event and encinitas it was there like eight nine years ago right yeah and i i want to say that at the time i was the first you offered me a free program saw because i was talking about the non-profit work that i wanted to do which i did end up doing i'm actually a member of guardians of the children non-profit we're a biker group and we go with kids when they have to testify in court and stuff like that and i've been able to do like some group fitness classes for those kids. And I've been doing a lot of nonprofit work. And yeah, a lot of the stuff that they want to do fitness-wise, I'm able to help them with that.

1:14:49Justin Andrews:And a lot of the stuff that you guys have taught me, I've carried into that.

1:14:52Adam Schafer:Oh, what a good heart you have, Amber. So cool. Yeah, so glad you're one of our listeners. Yep.

1:14:57Justin Andrews:Thank you. Well, thank you, guys.

1:14:58Adam Schafer:I want you to reach back out if you need anything else, okay?

1:15:01Justin Andrews:I will.

1:15:01Adam Schafer:All right. Keep focused on getting strong. You're doing great.

1:15:05Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Let's go.

1:15:07Justin Andrews:My biker name is Flex, by the way. Oh, yeah.

1:15:11Sal Di Stefano:I like you.

1:15:12Adam Schafer:I love it. Thanks, Amber. I love it. Good talking to you, Amber. She's great. She's great. Yeah, she's doing good, man. And she's definitely come a long way. And the reason why I asked her how long ago we met was it's been a while. So it's not like it's like she's progressed that entire time, like she said. She's moving along in the right direction. And I hope she listens to this afterwards. But, you know, when you get in those tough moments, like think back how far. That was the Viore launch.

1:15:40Sal Di Stefano:That's right. We helped launch that store. Their first physical store. Yeah, yeah. How many years ago was that?

1:15:45Adam Schafer:Yeah, it's about nine years. And I mean, what's weird is we did that and now look how big they are. So I don't know if it was us. Some kind of weird effect afterwards. Might be us. Our next caller is Chase from Arizona. What's up, Chase? What's up, Chase?

1:15:59Justin Andrews:Hey, gentlemen. How are you? Good, man.

1:16:01Adam Schafer:How can we help you?

1:16:02Justin Andrews:Good. Thanks for having me on today. I appreciate it. What you got for us? I'll jump right into it. So I am a 34-year-old father. I'm 6 '6", sitting anywhere between 300, 310 pounds right now. I played a ton of college athletics, and I am just tired of being an overweight dad. the reason I say that is because it was maybe maybe too too deep here but about a year and a half ago my oldest daughter got in a dog accident she got attacked by a dog and I just remember racing to the hospital with our other daughters and there was no parking had to park so far away from the hospital and I had to carry them all in there and it was just exhausting I had to stop a couple times and it was frustrating to me to try to to get into the hospital to see her and help her and had to make stops on the way there and it was it was frustrating sorry that gets a little emotional for me um so I decided to make a huge change after that point um listen to your podcast for a long time um tried to really get back into lifting so for a year and a half the goal has been just to get put on muscle, um, then to set a solid foundation.

1:17:27Um, so I've been doing that ever

1:17:31Justin Andrews:since. Um, I, a couple of years ago, probably four or five years ago, I did have some success with, with the keto diet. Um, I lost about 70 pounds doing that, but I hated how I felt and how I looked. I just, I honestly felt like, um, I, I felt like I looked the exact same, but just weighed less on the scale. I lost a ton of muscle. Um, it just wasn't a good experience since then. I've learned tons about health and nutrition, try to become better. Um, and again, just try to, to keep going from there. So my question for you guys today is I get super confused with all of the information out there in the world with calories and how much calories you should be eating.

1:18:16Justin Andrews:You know, I put my information into a calorie tracker and it's anywhere from 2 ,200 calories a day to 3 ,500 calories a day. I'm a bigger dude. So it's difficult to kind of gauge what's correct for me and what's there. So also protein intake. I mean, I know on the podcast, you talked about having the correct amount of macros and protein for your goal weight. Um, so I've tried to been eating 260 to 270 grams of protein per day. Um, not as consistent in that as I would like to be, but that's my goal for now. Um, easily every day I'm getting about seven to 8 ,000 steps. Um, so that's where I'm at.

1:19:00Justin Andrews:So I would love to figure out your thoughts on where to start with calories and just the overall, I feel like I am at the muscle mass that is good. And now I just want to start cutting down a little bit from here.

1:19:14Adam Schafer:Well, Chase, first off, thanks for calling in, man. And, you know, that story you said about, you know, trying to carry your kids into the hospital, man, I feel that that must've been very difficult. And the reason why I'm bringing you back to that is to help kind of start with the best starting point that I think is going to bring you the most success. also considering you're an athlete in college. By the way, what sports did you play in college? Football. Okay. Okay. So I think this will help you a lot, okay, what I'm about to say, because where the origin of the motivation, I guess for lack of a better term, makes a big difference on success.

1:19:54Adam Schafer:The motivation that you have, the real core motivation is to improve your fitness. It's not to lose weight. the motivation to be able to do what you need to do as a dad or do what you need to do in life really has nothing to do with your weight now your weight will start to react to your improved fitness but i think especially as an as an ex-athlete and especially with that moment that you had which uh it's a very strong memory i think the goal needs to improve your the goal is to improve your fitness and allow your body weight to go where it goes. Does that make sense? Now, what'll probably happen is you'll probably get leaner, right?

1:20:37Adam Schafer:You'll probably get leaner. You will. But if you can move and you got crazy athleticism and fitness at, you know, 290 pounds, 280 pounds, who cares? By the way, your body will reflect it. You'll look more like an athlete. Get like, like you experienced when you did keto, getting smaller doesn't necessarily mean better. You lost muscle. You didn't feel good. Your fitness declined, even though you were lighter. So the goal needs to be fitness. And the goal with fitness, with diet is what's going to fuel my endurance, my stamina, and my strength. So if we start from there, you're going to crush. Now, if we start from, I got to lose weight, you're going to run into the problems you had before.

1:21:19Adam Schafer:Where you start to compromise your fitness, you start to compromise how you feel in pursuit of a scale weight, which can definitely happen. Does that make sense?

1:21:30Justin Andrews:Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I totally understand what you're saying. Before I started getting back into lifting heavily, I was around 318. So naturally, I've just kind of come down a little bit from just lifting and trying to eat better whole foods and things like that. So completely understand.

1:21:48Adam Schafer:Yeah, so we could definitely do the whole tracking thing and all that. I think 250 grams of protein is plenty for you.

1:21:57Sal Di Stefano:200 to 250.

1:21:58Adam Schafer:Yeah, I don't think you need to go higher than 250. And if you get over 220, you're doing good. So I would keep it in that range for a guy your size. So that would be really the only thing I would say you would track. And then what you do is you eat only whole foods. And you eat when you're hungry. And then you gauge your performance. Your workout is also very important here. because when we're training for performance and movement and stamina and strength, workout makes a big difference. How many days a week is realistic for you to go to the gym? And I mean real realistic, like you could be consistent.

1:22:32Adam Schafer:Don't give me pie in the sky.

1:22:34Justin Andrews:No, I shoot for four days a week.

1:22:36Adam Schafer:Okay.

1:22:37Justin Andrews:I have a home setup that I enjoy, so it's not too hard to get out of the garage and bust out a workout. All right.

1:22:44Adam Schafer:Maps Performance. Maps Performance. That's your program. Maps Performance.

1:22:48Justin Andrews:You'll love it.

1:22:49Adam Schafer:Aim for 240 or so grams of protein a day. Only eat whole foods. If you're hungry, eat and you're good. And literally that's what it's like. Oh my God, I'm hungry. I'm going to go have whole foods. And what's going to happen is your performance, your athleticism will continue to improve with mass performance and your body fat percentage and muscle, your body composition will change over time. And it won't feel like you're chasing something that you can't get a hold of.

1:23:15Sal Di Stefano:The one thing I want to lean into, since you have the competitive athlete side of you that I like to do with my ex-athletes is being competitive with yourself on your consistency around your eating habits. So what it looks like is this. If your main goal is the performance, the health, the strength, like Sal is saying, and that's the lens that we look at this through, and it's inevitable, you're gonna have a day that's not good. You're gonna have a day that you're busy, you don't get to, and like, so what? So what? The next day, you're back on track again. And what I want you to pay attention to as that competitive athlete is, how many days in a row did I get of eating whole foods, hitting my protein intake, and being consistent?

1:23:56Sal Di Stefano:Oh, it was seven, and then I messed up. Cool. You're back to zero. Next day, your goal is eight. Can you get to eight? And just compete with it. Now, along the way, you're going to have these days. It just happens. What happens to people, though, is they have that one bad day where they ate bad, or they drank or they they miss jump off a cliff and then it's like it spirals out of control oh eff it or they get on the scale and it shows a number they don't like and so they totally go off the rails and then one day turns into a week of bad eating and not consistency i don't want you to look at it like that it's not a bad thing in fact when you're chasing performance and strength sometimes kind of a high calorie day eating out of bounce will feel tomorrow's workout when you go to the gym and you're gonna feel awesome so don't look at it a negative thing look at it as like oh man man, I got to seven days is my new record.

1:24:45Sal Di Stefano:I'm shooting for eight. Can I get eight days of perfect eating and hitting my protein? And so don't let the one day here and there that you have start keeping track of how many days can you string together and compete with yourself on getting better. And before you know it, you'll wake up and you'll have strong 30, 40 days of perfection and you're going to feel the best you've ever felt.

1:25:07Adam Schafer:Chase, do you meal prep? I do.

1:25:10Justin Andrews:So each, I mean, each Sunday I'll throw some things together and put them in some glass Tupperware things and have them throughout the week. So I try to do that.

1:25:19Adam Schafer:Yeah, good. Meal prepping is going to be key for this. And then here's the other thing I'll say to look out for. Because the weight is always going to be in the back of your mind, you might start to find yourself veer towards under eating, which you'll notice in your performance. So you may be like, okay, I know I'm supposed to eat whole natural foods, but if I skip, no big deal. I need to lose weight anyway. and then you'll see declines in performance. So I'm going to give you a little bit of structure, okay? I want you to have no less than four meals a day, no matter what. Now, if you're hungrier after that, then eat more of those whole natural meals.

1:25:50Adam Schafer:But I don't want a guy your size following mass performance. If you eat less than four meal prep meals a day, you're going to be under eating. You'll notice a decline in your performance as well.

1:25:59Sal Di Stefano:Notice, Chase, that nobody on this call yet has said anything about, we care where your calories are at. Like it's like the whole - It will go where it needs to. Exactly. If you focus like what we're talking about, they'll land where they're supposed to land. You'll have some higher days and lower days. But what you should see is consistently getting stronger and feeling better and performance going. And then to Sal's point, the body will follow. Yeah, body composition will follow. The aesthetics and the leanness, that'll follow. But if you keep focused on hitting your protein intake, fueling the body for performance, and stringing as many of those days in a row for your performance, the other stuff will follow.

1:26:38Adam Schafer:That's right. But four meals a day, no less than, because you need a lot of fuel, dude. You're a big dude. And like I said, in the back of your mind may be like, oh, I'll lose weight. It's okay if I skip a meal here or there. And that's going to send you off in the wrong direction. The other thing too, Chase, if you want someone to guide you through this, have you thought about working with a coach? Because we have coaches, and there's a few I have in mind that I think will work right with you.

1:27:01Justin Andrews:Yeah, yeah. I've heard you guys talking about it on the podcast. I mean, I'd love to sit down and chat with one and see what that looks like.

1:27:07Adam Schafer:Okay.

1:27:08Justin Andrews:For sure. Yeah. And it's funny. Exactly what you guys are saying is exactly what I go through on a daily basis where it's, you know, I'll skip a meal or two and it's difficult. It's hard to get past the obsession of if I don't eat, then I'm going to lose weight or whatever. But I need to get a better mentality of fueling my body and just focusing on being an athlete.

1:27:29Adam Schafer:That's right. No less than four meals a day. Have fun with your workouts. You've got it in you.

1:27:34Justin Andrews:Get strong.

1:27:35Adam Schafer:And, bro, you'll start to enjoy it. You really have a lot of fun. And I promise your body will look more athletic if you become more athletic. I think working with a coach, I think six months for you would be great. Six to nine months, you would be fire, bro. You would be fire. Give you such a better mentality towards this whole thing, for sure. And they'd guide you through it. I'll have somebody call you today, Chase, and then you can ask them all the questions or whatever. But in the meantime, I'm going to send you mass performance if you don't have it. Yeah. And you'll do great, dude. If you kind of remember what we're saying, stay there and don't try and do anything crazy.

1:28:08Adam Schafer:You'll get there.

1:28:09Justin Andrews:Yeah, I'll stick to it. I'll change up the programming a little bit and focus on what you guys have said. I appreciate it.

1:28:15Adam Schafer:You got it, man. Thanks for calling in, brother. Yep. Thank you, guys.

1:28:18Justin Andrews:I appreciate it very much.

1:28:19Adam Schafer:You got it. Take it easy. Yeah, I think, especially with an ex-athlete and getting back into that kind of like, oh, man, it feels good to move. plus like the main that what happened with his kids you know you may confuse that with i need to lose weight and yes losing weight may be a part of it but really what you want what you're what you were looking for is ability oh yeah exactly fitness oh trust me there's there's

1:28:42Sal Di Stefano:350 pound guys that can move faster than me oh yeah yeah so it's like it's not a weight thing

1:28:47Adam Schafer:you know yes and there's shredded dudes on instagram that would have had to pause each time

1:28:51Sal Di Stefano:because they weren't that's right that's right and then you let that be your guiding light to this whole process so you know i the hardest part with athletes is they tend to be all or nothing

1:28:59Adam Schafer:that's right and that's why i said coach at the end yeah and that's also why i made the point too

1:29:04Sal Di Stefano:of like if you're going to use that competitive side of you use it towards consistency around the diet during those days yeah and and the fact is we all have bad days and and and so but what happens many times is the all or nothing person lets that bad day turn into it now it's nothing you know and then so hopefully he can get with a coach and they'll walk him through all this our next caller is Ashley from Texas hi Ashley

1:29:27Justin Andrews:um yeah I'm like so nervous I'm so excited to talk to you guys um so I wrote in um I just want to say thank you guys you've really inspired my fitness journey and I've done a lot since listening to you guys when I discovered you guys like five years ago so I really appreciate all the information that you guys gave um but I wanted to ask a question so I was feel like I was in pretty good shape a year ago I was working out five days a week um and felt really strong and good and then I got pregnant and I got hyperemesis gravidarine which um is just like the most extreme morning sickness like I was basically on bed rest and didn't do any movement other than like getting up from my bed to the couch for like nine months and and since then now I'm four months postpartum and I just don't know what programming I should do to get back into the gym without like hurting myself I feel like an alien in my own body where everything just doesn't feel right.

1:30:46Justin Andrews:I'm so weak in everything. Um, just simple movements. Just, I really struggle with again. And I just feel like I've lost all progress, almost all everything. And I'm starting from zero.

1:30:58Adam Schafer:That's so glad you called in. That's a tough position to be in, Ashley. I've trained, uh, women like you in similar situations. Uh, and it's very difficult. It's really tough. By the way, um my wife was pretty close to that for about four months while she was pregnant with my daughter so tough like what were you able to eat when because i know because i know with my wife if i just said a food she'd throw up like was there anything you could eat it i mean it was pretty

1:31:25Justin Andrews:i was going and getting like ivs and um it would just be random i don't know like carrots or something that I could really like handle on dictating. It was just super random, the things that I could, but yeah, I would like the microwave would go on and I would be like, and it was horrible.

1:31:45Adam Schafer:Brutal, brutal. Well, um, you're, this is the way you feel is totally normal. Uh, I have the perfect program for you. Uh, it's going to be a map starter. And just to encourage you, Ashley, is you have muscle memory and that's a real thing. So the results will come back faster than you anticipate. The challenge will be not to push too fast, too hard. That's the challenge. Map starter. Perfect. That's where you need to go. Just follow that program right there. And it may feel easy after a few weeks. Stay with it. Don't do any other program that we have. Don't add anything to it aside from maybe walking, just follow map starter.

1:32:30Adam Schafer:And at the end of that, you should feel like you can do more traditional, maybe a couple of day a week programs.

1:32:37Justin Andrews:Okay, great. Thanks. I started anabolic initially and I was like, felt like I was hurting myself. Too much at first.

1:32:46Sal Di Stefano:You might even run starter twice based off how you feel. So I would have you go through starter and then if you were feeling great i'd say hey let's let's see if we can handle maps anabolic and then i'd want feedback from you on how you feel and if you're like i'm feeling great we keep going if you're like man this feels still scary i still don't feel like this is all my body like then i'd be like back to starter let's run starter again and so really got to go off of how you feel probably going to be at least a year before you're even thinking about hitting the gym five days a week. That's a lot of volume for anybody, much less somebody who's postpartum and went through what you went through.

1:33:25Sal Di Stefano:So map starter at least once. If you still feel uncertain, run it again. You'll be great. And then slowly dip your toe into anabolic and see how you feel.

1:33:36Adam Schafer:And the way you would do maps anabolic, if you did follow it afterwards, would be to start in pre-phase and do that for about five weeks before even going into phase one. Does that make sense?

1:33:47Justin Andrews:Yeah, no, definitely. That's so encouraging, even just to hear other people say that it's okay. And it's going to take a while to be back to where I was. And it's hard to go from feeling so strong and good to feeling like I can't do anything.

1:34:03Adam Schafer:Ashley, you said a few things. And you've said a few things that have been echoed by so many people that I've worked with so many women. And the common thing that they say, you actually said it is. I feel like my body's not mine. Super common. So yeah, don't, don't worry. And what Adam said is, is accurate. Takes between one to two years before moms fully feel like, okay, I'm back. That doesn't mean you won't progress that entire time. You're going to progress that entire time, but it's going to take a little while. Cause you got to still have, you're going to have a one-year-old. You're going to have all that stuff going on.

1:34:35Adam Schafer:Uh, and you're going to, about a one, one to two years later, you're like, okay, I'm back. I feel good. In which case, then you tend to have another baby but we'll see

1:34:47Justin Andrews:I'm good I'm good I'm good so we'll send you starter yeah that's awesome thank you guys I appreciate it thanks Ashley yeah be patient and be in touch if you need help okay thank you so much I really appreciate it you guys

1:35:02Adam Schafer:you're awesome bye have you ever worked with a woman who had hyperemesis no dude not to that level dude i've had i've got to go to the hospital i've had clients that have had like uh like through

1:35:16Sal Di Stefano:the first trimester had some really bad like morning sickness but not nine months and ivy she's just on ivs and they're trying to get her nutrients it's like you can't eat anything it's

1:35:26Adam Schafer:so extreme so so jessica what was there was like mom there were like there was like a week within that period the whole period was rough where she was like hypersensitive to anything there was like a week there, dude, where I'm like, we're going to have to like, we have to get something inside you.

1:35:42Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:35:43Adam Schafer:Like you can't just not eat. Cause she would literally just, I couldn't do anything. It was just on the couch. It was crazy. Hey, look, if you like mind pump, you can find us on Instagram. It's mind pump media.

1:35:52Justin Andrews:Thank you for listening to mind pump.

1:35:54Adam Schafer:If your goal is to build

1:35:55Justin Andrews:and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic mass performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family.

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