2930: Why More Time Working Out Doesn't Build Muscle (Do This Instead)

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0:36Justin Andrews:Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews.

0:43Adam Schafer:You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in the history of the world. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we talk about why more time working out doesn't build more muscle. You're going to love this episode. Now, according to this episode or because of this episode, we have something cool for you. We have a program called MAPS 15 Minutes. It's 15 minutes a day. And in the episode, we talk about why this is such an effective way to work out for most people. So here's what we're going to do. You buy MAPS 15 Minutes. You get another program for free called MAPS Anywhere, which is an at-home or anywhere training program.

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2:33Adam Schafer:You might think that working out more will build more muscle, will give you a faster metabolism, will give you better results. But this isn't always true. In fact, oftentimes, in our experience, the opposite is true. Today, we're going to talk about why more time working out doesn't build more muscle, and in fact, can oftentimes do the opposite. We're going to get to it. Let's go. Yeah, good conversation. I feel like this is one we talk about often because it's so common for people to, first off, it's surprising to people when they hear us discuss this.

3:05Justin Andrews:It's a big paradigm shifting equation for people.

3:09Adam Schafer:100%.

3:10Sal Di Stefano:I also think it's because we are communicating to a bit of a self-selection bias of people, right? You have an audience who chooses to listen to a fitness and workout podcast. So you typically attract a majority of our listeners, I think, are into or at least wanting to really get into working out if they're not already really into working out. and so this conversation I find is far more common with our audience than probably the general population.

3:43Adam Schafer:Yeah, I'd say there's probably two kinds of people that do too much. By the way, too much doesn't get you there faster. In fact, it doesn't get you there the same speed either. It gets you there slower and we're going to discuss a little as to why this occurs in the body. But there's two kinds of people that fall into this category. One of of them is like what you're saying, Adam, which is, you know, people who are consistent with working out. And so over time, uh, they little by little love working out. They're consistent and little by little, they do more and more and more. Um, and they plateau, uh, or they stop seeing results or progress and they add more work to what they're already doing and still see that plateau.

4:21Adam Schafer:It's very frustrating place to be. In fact, that's one of the most frustrating places you could be. The other is the beginner who is roaring to go. He was ready to get in shape or motivated. They finally got themselves, you know, like the hardest lift in the gym. I heard this said the other day and I've loved it. The hardest lift in the gym is pulling, pulling the front door open, right? The first time, right? So it's, it's this beginner who's like ready to rock and roll. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to get in shape. I'm sick of whatever. And they jump in with both feet and they do too much. They do more than is necessary, which is a formula for disaster.

4:55Adam Schafer:It's a formula for frustration burnout uh burnout injury um or just uh it's just unsustainable uh so and you know a lot of people experience this uh i'd say quite a few people experience this where you place so much effort into your workouts you're not getting what you think you should get or worse you feel like you're going backwards it's got to be one of the most frustrating places to be because you know if you're not working out you expect to get no results if i'm doing nothing, if I'm doing what I've always done and I got no body changes in a positive way, like I'm not going to get mad. Uh, it's not going to be frustrating because I would expect to get no results from doing nothing.

5:35Adam Schafer:But here I am working my butt off.

5:37Justin Andrews:Yeah.

5:38Adam Schafer:Here I am putting in a lot and I don't feel like I look like I work out as much as I do, uh, or I'm not getting any results. So the results are so slow and so difficult, uh, that I don't feel like it's worth it. And the truth is when you work out right, first off, it is always difficult, right? You're doing a lifestyle change. You're adding something into your life that wasn't there before that you're going to do on a consistent basis. Okay. So that part's difficult, but a lot of people, when they, when they train properly, consistently properly for the first time, it's shocking because they get results that don't match their effort, but in the reverse.

6:15Adam Schafer:so when I would train clients uh and you guys have had similar experiences I know you've expressed this uh when I'm doing everything right and we're hitting it the right way they come to me and they go it feels like I'm barely putting any effort in for the results I'm getting yeah it's really weird why is my body changing I actually had clients sit me down and go okay what's going on here I know why am I progressing the way I am uh where I used to work so much harder and it feels like I'm doing

6:40Justin Andrews:barely anything like what's going on it'd be like the end of the workout and my client would just look at me and be like okay what's next yeah we're done what else what else and then no that's it that's all we're doing today and you feel great and they feel energetic and they want to do more but no guess what you're going to come back and we're going to do it again well this the smallest

6:58Sal Di Stefano:amount of novelty and stress will cause an adaptation so you don't need the and and and the larger the stress and novelty does not equal more results. No. And so if I can reap some benefits from very minimal stress and novelty, then that's the goal should be just to do a little bit of that and to keep doing a little bit more and a little bit more so I can continue versus the way people come into it, especially when they're riding that high of motivation because they need to make change and they're just getting started it's a new year's resolution they got a goal in six months whatever the thing is and so they're highly motivated and it causes them to uh swing too hard there's and and and versus trying to make a good connection and see the ball it's like they just grip it rip it as hard as they can and end up not making contact not seeing the results they want to see and it's because they're overreaching and they're applying too much novelty too much stress for their body to adapt.

8:05Adam Schafer:So we need to clarify, because if you're listening to this, you've never heard us explain this before. It's going to sound very confusing. You're probably really confused right now. It doesn't make any sense. So I'm going to kind of illustrate what's happening here. So there's two things. There's two types of activity or exercise or two general categories. Now there's more than this, but generally speaking, it is good to move and be active every day. Okay. So we're not talking, what we're not saying is you move minimally. That's not what we're saying, okay? Movement is good. Not sitting down all day long is good.

8:37Adam Schafer:What we're talking about is a workout, okay? A workout is not supposed to be all your activity. A workout is designed to send a signal to get your body to adapt in a way that you're trying to get it to adapt, okay? So when I do a workout, I'm like, I'm trying to get stronger or I'm trying to improve my stamina. I'm trying to build muscle. I'm trying to get my metabolic rate in a better position so I could burn more body fat. So that's the goal with a workout is to send a signal to get my body to adapt. Activity is just activity. Activity is just moving. And if you look at the data on activity, moving throughout the day in a moderate to low intensity way is very good for you in comparison to not moving.

9:21Adam Schafer:Okay, so you should definitely move every single day. But when it comes to working out, people do too much. and here's why. So when you exercise, when you work out, okay, when you're trying to send a signal, that signal is sent because there's a stress. That's the signal that's being sent. I'm training my body. My body becomes stressed by the training. So I go lift heavy weights. I go train with a heavy weight. My body says, okay, we need to adapt and get stronger because we need to be able to handle the stress a little bit better. Or I go challenge myself with running. Let's say this is no longer stressful.

9:58Adam Schafer:I need to get better at this stress so that it's no longer a stress later on. Now, what happens over time is you get stronger. You don't stick with the same weight. You add weight, right? And you send that stress signal again so your body can continue to adapt. And this is why over time you build muscle, get stronger, boost your metabolism, get stamina, all those amazing things. But there's another side to this, which is we have to balance that with your body's ability to recover, okay? If we go too far, we don't adapt. We only heal. In fact, if you go too far, you don't even heal. If you go real far and you go too hard, like extreme too hard, your body doesn't even have a chance to heal and you can really hurt yourself and get sick.

10:41Adam Schafer:I don't think a lot of people are going that far, although fitness fanatics can definitely step into this place. What's happening with most people is that what they're really doing is they're sending a stress, they're creating some damage, they're allowing their body to heal, but it was too much for their body to adapt from. This is called the breakdown recovery trap. So breakdown recovery trap looks like this. I go to the gym, I train really hard, I get really sore, soreness goes away, I go back to the gym, I cause a stress, I get really sore, I go back to the gym after the soreness goes away and I do it again, but I never improve.

11:16Adam Schafer:All that happens, I get sore, I sweat, and then I heal, we'll call recovery healing. Then I come back and I'm in the same place. Adaptation is above and beyond recovery. So to not get too complex, there's some crossover, but really adaptation is above and beyond. So healing gets you back to where you were before. So let's say I'm at a 10, I go to the gym and I beat the crap out of myself. Now I'm an eight in terms of my strength and movement because I'm sore. Healing gets me back up to a 10. adaptation gets me up to a 10 and a half or 11 and it's the adaptation process that we're after and most people do too much okay by the way it doesn't just have to be the breakdown recovery trap maybe i do too much and i still adapt uh but i don't adapt as much as i could have yeah because i still did too much this is maximizing that sweet spot that's right that's a hundred

12:07Sal Di Stefano:i think this is difficult for the average person because how to gauge that because um it's a bit of a moving target because there's also other variables that could cause this to be too much you know like so one week uh it may it's maybe it's the the right amount or the right dose then the following week uh something happens at work i have two nights of bad rest had a day or two in a row where i missed macros and protein and like now that context is different it changes Now, too much can be less than what the previous week was. And so this is the part I think that can be challenging people. And this is why I know I'm sure people are so tired of hearing me say my goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most change.

12:56Sal Di Stefano:but in my opinion you are always better with practicing consistency and lean weighing towards doing too little than you are trying to do as much as you possibly can as long as you're consistent right you're showing up to the gym i would rather you show up just go through the movements at moderate intensity moderate volume then go and feel like you need to crush it every single time because that person actually will end up with lesser results than the person who just keeps on going and is chipping away and modest workouts. And a lot of times they go there and they just kind of practice the movements.

13:34Sal Di Stefano:They don't really push intensity. And then when they feel really good and they're well-rested and they ate well and they're feeling strong, okay, maybe I'll push it a little bit today. And then back off. It's like, it's wild how little we have to do when you work with your body. And I think we're fooled by a lot of the results that we see by these bodies on social media and these bodybuilders and bikini athletes that are enhanced and genetic anomalies. And they live for it. And they live, they eat, rest, work out as their full-time job. And we're average moms or dads who have their careers that have other stresses and don't work out and sleep.

14:16Sal Di Stefano:And like a different game for you.

14:18Justin Andrews:Yeah, well, I mean, that mentality really is the antidote to what you were talking about earlier about somebody who's putting all the work in and there's nothing more frustrating than working really, really hard, getting nowhere and even a lot of times setting yourself back to the point where it's like, you know, do I even attempt? I know this is good for me, but I'm not getting anywhere. It's so frustrating.

14:40Adam Schafer:I'm just going to give up. 100%. And by the way, what you listed earlier, Adam, that when you said one week is this and one week is that, what you're talking about is the average person. Yeah. The average person does not have perfect weeks of sleep, recovery, diet, and stress week in and week out. That's right. The average person has weeks that go up and down, seasons that go up and down. And so what you want to do is you want minimal dose for maximum effect. That's what you always want. Why? Because that leaves you room for life. If I do maximum dose for maximum effect, then when life hits me, which it will, that dose is too much.

15:17Adam Schafer:Too much. And now my body isn't adapting. It's not changing. So the question is, how do I know if I'm doing the right amount? It's actually not hard to tell. So this is where people get a little bit confused. Like, how do I know I'm doing the right amount? Here's how you know. You're getting stronger.

15:30Justin Andrews:Yeah.

15:31Adam Schafer:You have more energy. Yeah, you feel better. Here's how you don't know. I'm sore all the time. That does not mean you had a good workout. I'm tired. That does not mean you had a good workout. Or the scale necessarily keeps moving down. That doesn't necessarily mean you're doing the right things. Oftentimes, in fact, the scale will go down because people are dramatically reducing their food intake, dramatically increasing their activity, not even realizing they're losing 50 % of their weight and muscle, and setting themselves up for a really nasty plateau and a rebound later on. Because now they have a slower metabolic rate, and they gain all the weight back, except the weight they gained back wasn't half muscle.

16:06Adam Schafer:It was all fat. So now they're in a position where they weigh as much as they did when they first started, except they've lost a significant amount of muscle. So, you know, and I, look, we trained people for years with this method and it was, it was always, it was always interesting to me. It was, I always had to convince people in the beginning, but after the third or fourth week, I no longer had to convince them. It was always that way. It was like, if I had the fitness fanatic that showed up that said, Hey, you know, I've been plateauing. I'm working out five days a week real hard. I'm doing all this cardio.

16:34Adam Schafer:I'm doing all these things. Why isn't my body progressing? And I look at their routine and go, cool, we're going to cut your training volume down in half. And I'm going to eliminate 80 % of your cardio. They looked at me like I was crazy. Like, wait, hold on. I'm plateauing and you're telling me to do less and that's going to give me better results? Am I crazy? So I'd have this conversation with them and luckily I can be very convincing and I'd say, okay, trust me, let's try this and see what happens. And then after three or four weeks, they'd come back and be like, this is weird. That's always what I would hear.

17:00Adam Schafer:This is really weird. How is it that my body's improving? I'm doing so much less. And I said, because now we're not overwhelming your body with stress. We're not working with your body. Your body can finally adapt. tapped. I remember when I trained Doug. So Doug's our producer here at Mind Pump. He's one of our business partners. But Doug started off as my client, somebody with a history of exercise. He knew how to strength train. He lifted weights for years. He didn't come to me as a total beginner. He came to me because he was referred by somebody that I knew. And his idea was that we were going to work out four days a week.

17:31Adam Schafer:This was the idea. He thought, yeah, four days a week strength training, that's probably what I need to do. And I said, no, actually, we're only lift weights twice a week. And I remember Doug looking at me like I was crazy. And I convinced him. I said, let's give it a shot. See what happens. And he got in the best, possibly the best shape of his entire life, stronger than ever. And I remember those early conversations. In fact, this is what got, uh, you know, started mind pump. Doug thought it was so mind blowing. He said, we got to do something about this and create a program around this. Cause this is wild.

17:58Adam Schafer:I can't believe I'm getting so fit and strong doing so little, but that's how it feels when you do it right. But again, I want to be clear. It doesn't mean it's easy. You still need to be consistent. It's just a lot easier than doing it wrong doing it wrong is really tough the crazy part though it's it's

18:12Sal Di Stefano:actually uh a lot easier to be consistent when you don't beat yourself up with that one of the hardest i mean still to this day one of the hardest things for me to motivate myself to go get up and go to the gym the next day is when i overreached the day before and i'm like i'm feeling it so i'm fried i'm sore and achy and i'm like i went too hard too much and like going back and doing it again, it makes it that versus leaving the gym, feeling like I got a nice pump, a nice workout, feeling like the next day, feel good, like I worked out the day before, but not feeling like it's impeding my movement.