2932: Phil Heath Used Less PEDs Than Everyone Thought ; Here Is the Real Story

22:54But then it was like, are you running his race or are you running your own? You're already beating them. So just run yours. And that insecurity, although it got heightened at some point, the injections didn't because I knew that the plan I had was just to be able to walk away from it with my health and have some real muscle maturity along with it. So yeah, now like I can, you know, kind of eat what I want. And I feel like I did build a lot of mature muscle and that was because of the fact that it was a lot of my effort obviously combined with the diet and the recovery um but i also have learned most recently you know just you can't throw a bunch of gear when you're like you know gut microbiome is jacked when you have inflammation problems elsewhere um mitochondria function is you know not good all those things and i feel like i i did have that by proxy of doing the modalities such as the, I was doing red light.

23:55I was, I owned a Fatahra Street 20 back in 2010. Oh, wow. So I was doing that. I just didn't broadcast it. I was doing acupuncture. I was doing all these things, the red light saunas, you know, the, the infrared saunas, you know, plunges. I was doing that way before it became popular. So that was always my go-to of like, you can't just focus on the gear and you can't just slam a bunch of food. you have to train and you have to know how to recover faster and i would invest more money and time for that and which gave me more quality i think i think people i think this is always a

24:30Adam Schafer:speculation but um because of social media and my algorithm now shows this because i'll click on these videos because they're so crazy and it's these fitness influencers but they're like p.d influencers yeah and the recommendations they're making are crazy yes like i'm hearing some crazy stuff. Like I saw one the other day where a guy's like, 500 milligrams of testosterone, you're not going to grow off that. You need at least a gram. That's crazy. Yeah, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like from what I knew from the gym industry, I never was in the bodybuilding world, but I'm like, that's a cycle.

25:00Adam Schafer:And you're telling these kids. That's a real cycle. And you're telling kids that they're not going to grow on it. They need to take a gram of testosterone. And they look like nothing. And what they're talking about like with Trembolone, no, you need at least 500 milligrams. I'm like, oh my God. I'd be coughing like crazy. I'm just being honest. It's like, I'm just going to keep it real. Like, go ahead. I'm sorry. Yo, no, I'm just blown away. I think it's getting crazy. It's not producing better physiques, by the way, because you're getting just better regular Joes that are taking this crazy stuff.

25:25That's exactly what's happening. It irritates me. I'm just going to say it. Like, I've been very irritated over the past few years, especially most recently, because these are things that should not be talked about as freely as they are. It's dangerous. These are dangerous compounds. And people say, well, Phil, you did it. It's like, dude, but I also had a foundation. I also was doing the, I didn't take growth hormone until my second Arnold classic. Oh, wow. Wow. So I think it comes down to the fact that majority of people that choose to do these PDs have heavy insecurity issues. Oh, no doubt.

26:02And it pours into, well, I'll just do gear. And we're talking about like 16 year olds now. Yeah. Cause, and they'll openly talk to me about it at events.

26:10Adam Schafer:So you got kids coming up to telling you. Oh, for sure. like with their you know it's crazy with their parents i'm really pointing out oh yeah i was in i was in freaking idaho this year no no last year i'm sorry at a nutrition shop and this kid comes up and his mom is there and she's like yeah you know he's really into this bodybuilding stuff and i was like yeah uh i was like oh okay and uh so i look at i was like so what year are you in college you know and he was like oh i'm 16 i was like oh man i would have gave you 20 easily you know whatever especially with that type of physique he's like oh yeah thanks man i'm running this this and i was like whoa in front of his mom and i'm looking at the mom and she goes yeah his dad's not around and this and that what can i do he's gonna do what he wants and i'm like whoa so it comes to that as well so as much as we can kind of bitch and moan about these kids you know talking about these compounds on social which i think is wild because back in the day if you mentioned anything you were afraid that the dv yeah you were arrested yeah yeah we had to like be like oh they're posting videos of themselves using it dude there's a guy on the airplane like it's a different world yeah they can literally take in this syringe and be like yeah this is what i'm doing today i'm like whoa so yeah i think it's just i think it's the devil man i think that social media oh man it gives us such a skewed view of reality man like they're not talking about the side effects they're not talking about the guy that no you know i just think it's real drug addiction and i think where they're getting it from great great point i think it's i think is a different type of drug addiction as you know you guys know this you this is mind pump man you guys know all this data how many kids are out there you know smoking weed like they used to or drinking yeah you don't hear about alcoholism with kids anymore they don't do it they'll do steroids though they'll do peds they'll do SARMs they'll do all that stuff yeah because they're so vanity based off of a freaking algorithm that i believe right here right now if social media was blank for a week we'd have severe mental illness and if it was gone for a month for everyone including myself i would be fine they wouldn't even go to the gym yeah if social media was not around i don't think these kids would care less about going to the gym anymore they're not real gym goers they're just and this is not all of them it's just fueling insecurity but it's fueling exactly like i just and i see it you know i'm old enough to know some personality disorders and i'm like if this guy wasn't doing peds he'd probably be drinking he'd probably smoking probably doing other things so of course it's a call to action all the parents out there might be mindful of what your kids are doing where your kids where are your kids where are your kids and search their room and if you see your kid gaining you know mass you know and crushing food it's not bad to ask hey what are you doing you know and you should be and these parents know man but i think sometimes they don't know how to talk to their own kids because they're soft and they want their kids to be on youtube yeah they really do you know like because what a little bit of living vicariously we wanted to be i wanted to be a basketball player you know a lot of people want to be athletes and stuff these kids they don't care about none of that they want to be on youtube that's it and if they can go ahead and take a drug or if they can get some implants on some boobs or some butt cheeks they'll go do it like they'll like that's the world i believe now the algorithm is feeding into it and the more crazy stacks so to your point they do the more likes and views and like so it's just it's pushing and they think it's funny yeah yeah oh man bro like i'm on trend ha ha and i'm like you do realize like i don't even let me ask you guys a question Do you even think they have like the, you know, like back when I first started competing, you know, you had the supplement review guide, right?

29:55Yeah, yeah. And then you had like Anabolic 2000. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You think these guys even have that?

29:59Adam Schafer:No, they're just going on social media. Watching TikTok. People don't realize when Trenbolone was being used first, it was, I think it was Parabolin was the name of it. Yes. It was like a French steroid. The pros were using 75 milligrams a week. Yep, it was 76 milligrams and a 1.5 ampoule, CC ampoule. And they use that once a week. These kids are like 400, 500 milligrams. I don't know how there's more like destruction in the world because I was able to get my hands on that once. And I literally wanted to like, I didn't want to leave the gym. And that's not me advocating for it. It was just like, that was the one compound that made me like rage.

30:39Adam Schafer:Well, it's the one that's most closely connected to mental health issues, anxiety, sexual dysfunction. these kids are getting on there saying weird stuff about their sexual function and desires and weird stuff I actually came off of it I remember doing it for like two weeks and I was like I can't take this it's just this is something that is too strong that I don't trust myself on as just a it's like hey if you know tequila don't make you a happy person man you probably shouldn't drink it both were like that for me and I think having a level of discernment is important too but that comes with age, I think as well.

31:17Adam Schafer:What are the big mistakes you're seeing with people these days with just their strength training? Are there trends that you're seeing now that need to be reversed or mistakes? I mean, I see the same mistakes as far as not slowing things down. No one really works on the eccentric movements as they should. I think it's just like, lift as heavy as you can, as fast as you can, make as much noise as you can. And that probably goes back to what we've been talking about, this whole theme of social media. nothing looks sensational if you're slowly contracting something it just doesn't look as cool it's definitely a skill uh and i give all the credit to bodybuilders because you have a lot of strength sports right you have power lifting olympic lifting you've got strong man but bodybuilders uh really are the experts at making a weight feel heavy yep uh good ones right like like rather than lifting heavier which i think is important when you're a beginner just get stronger but at some point uh the risk versus reward isn't very good you're not going to get more gains from adding 50 pounds to your squat anymore no but you're probably better better off slowing down and making it feel heavier uh yeah or just repping the hell out of it you know like you know i could uh i could back squat pretty heavy but i get front squat even better so in order to get bigger quads my coach was like, Honey was like, Phil, we'll do pre-exhaust and then you're going to do five sets of 315 squats for 20 reps.

32:43I'm like, oh, God. Oh, boy. And, you know, I'm living in Denver. So let's go with the altitude. Wow. And we're doing that twice a week. Plus lunges, plus hack squats, plus leg press. And if he really wants to piss me off, he's throwing some vertical leg presses in there as well. Oh, those are gnarly. You know, so that's a long day where I wasn't a person that ever like puked during a workout, but I sure as hell passed out many times. Like I just got laid down. But that volume really helped. I really feel like you start getting to that risk versus reward, you know, aspect. And I trained by myself.

33:20So we always designed a workout where I can handle that weight. And if I did fail, I'm not going to die. You know what I mean?

33:28Adam Schafer:What was the value of working with a coach? Because you're so experienced. What point in your career did Haunted get you? What point? After I turned pro. After you turned pro? Yeah. So before Olympia? No, no, no. So after I won my pro card, that was when I was searching for a coach. Okay. I was kind of looking for a coach when I was doing the MPC Junior Nationals. Yeah. But that was only because I was told that I needed one. Yeah. Because I was already getting calls from Steve Blackman over at Muscular Development and the late Peter McGuff over at Flex. so they had like this bidding war to try to get me to be exclusive athlete so Peter McGuff was like I want you to work with Chris Aceto I like Chris Aceto he's and he was obviously a contributor to the magazine as well and he was working with Jay so you know Jay was their guy yep and then uh Steve Blegman was like well I have Chad Nichols and he works with freaking Ronnie Coleman and he and he's worked with Flex Wheeler he's worked with these guys so I ended up hitting up Chad um the week of the Junior Nationals in 05.

34:29And he probably just didn't recognize the number and didn't call, you know, call me back. So then after I got my pro card a month later, I ran into Haun-y then in August at the IFBB North Americans. Okay. And then I met him and I was like, I recognize you from the magazine and MD. I have a column and this and that. So then I watched him. I basically job shadowed him when he was training Charles Rayarty and Bill Wilmore for the MPC Nationals that same year. And based off of his interaction with his clients and also the clients' girlfriends and family, I was like, okay, I think I can give him autonomy over this physique because I like the way he coaches his clients, but I also like how he handles the people around him, them as well, like asking them questions.

35:19How has his training been? Has he gone to the bathroom? Like, is he stressed? Is he this? Is he that? He's very meticulous on all these different things. And it but for us, it had to start off kind of like a friendship. I had to know that if we're going to be on the phone for like 30 minutes to an hour, I got to I got to know that I like actually being around you, you know, because I don't want to just be with someone that is very rigid and, you know, very rude and that I didn't vibe with. but we vibed on various other things. So I would fly out here to go meet up with them. And one day he was like, all right, man, we're both talking on the phone way too much, man.

35:56We're going to work together or not. So we're like, all right, let's do it. So we did the 2006 Sean Ray Pro-Am. And that's where we really got down and dirty and did our first approach. Now he's local. So when you would fly in, where would you guys train at? Over at the Golds and Campbell. Oh, really? Yeah. So we trained at Golds and Campbell. Yeah, we're not that far.

36:16Adam Schafer:What was the value of working with a coach? What did that help you? Just get like, okay, I'm going to give this to someone else and just. Yeah. Ronnie was the one that told me I needed a coach. Really, really told me that. I mean, everybody else did. Like I told you about Steve Buckman and Peter McGuff, but like I felt like that was more agenda based. Sure. Of course they want you to get a coach. But with Ronnie, I was like, well, who do you think? And he said, well, Ronnie's really good. And it was funny because I was like, all right, that makes sense. And so the value of it was Ronnie said, you need a second set of eyes.

36:49He was like, you don't need to be stressed about all this stuff, getting ready for a show. The last week, it gets really gnarly. And you just need someone with a good eye and really good communication skills. I was like, that makes sense because that's what a coach really has to do. but as far as the value oh man I mean he was able to push me without being in the room if that makes sense we did everything pretty much remote we probably trained together like a handful of times throughout each year

37:21Adam Schafer:any things you changed because of his coaching like with your training just knowing like when to push a little bit further past my limit and when to kind of like back off especially cardio because I can get on cardio like nobody's business. Well, you were a basketball player. Yeah, so it was nothing. Did you have a tendency to overdo cardio before? I would want to, but then I realized he would pull the reins back on that and be like, you don't need all that or you need to do more. His whole thing was like, let's see how further we can push my physique without a ton of carbohydrates. So I hated that.

38:00I ain't going to lie. That was something that was extremely difficult. you know I remember doing my first show as a pro and I was doing like for eight weeks no more than 125 130 grams of carbs oh like no cheap meals no nothing and like all white fish like all white fish it was brutal but I came out shredded so I didn't you know so in your mind you're like I don't care yeah um but the coaching aspect I'd say as we got close to like when I was training for the olympia um handling the noise and knowing like um i needed him you know there to kind of give me an understanding because he would sit like third row or fourth row and he would um text me backstage because they wouldn't let him backstage um i don't even know why personally i believe that they probably thought it was an unfair advantage because they knew i was coming because they let neil hill they let all these other guys back there with their clients but they always made Hani like, you know, happy.

38:54Oh, interesting. You have a, what's the most memorable Olympia for you? Hmm. You know, you would think it would be the first one. And I think as I've done more interviews, yeah, the first one. But man, like the third one and the seventh one were like. Well, it's because you got pushed in those ones. The third one was because of the fact that everything was clicking. That was the heaviest I ever weighed on Olympia stage, and I did one call out in that Friday night. Are you battling Jay or Kai at that time? Kai at that time. Kai at that time, okay. Yeah, so I did literally one call out after my individuals, which was insane because they called me back out to do the last call out, and then Steve Weinberger was like, Phil, he's back in line.

39:43And I was like, that's respect right there. Like I just, you know, gave someone the Tyson uppercut, man. You know what I'm saying? Knocked him out. Not even close, dog. It's not even close. I mean, it hasn't been done since, right? I think it was only done one other time. Oh, I didn't realize that. Oh, wow. Yeah, I think the last time that happened was I was told, I think it was Jay Emanuel that told me, it was like Lee Haney had done that one year. I think it was like an 88 or something like that. So it's not something that judges are going to do, especially in a two-day show. Yeah. Yeah. A two-day show.

40:09Like, okay, you go there for two days. You see me up there with everybody else. Yeah. And I only do one full call out. That means you know I whooped. It's not even close. Yeah, it's not even close. That's for their fighting for a second. Yeah, they just knew. He's like, he can go eat a cheeseburger tonight. Right. I also think it was because of the fact that we've seen enough. If anything, we're just going to pose him to death to see something worse. Wow. This is the best that we've seen in a very long time. We're going to give him the respect, give him his flowers. It's game over. Next. 2017, I'd say close second.

40:45The intention behind it was the fact that I needed to really, man, 2017, man. It's like you said, Mr. Olympia, you have the opportunity to tie Schwarzenegger, man. Yeah. And I saw Arnold at his Arnold Classic, and I asked him to, I was like, hey, can you come over here for a second? After we were taking pictures, because he came by my booth, and I was like, it would be an honor to be tied with you. That's just the short version. and he just looked at me and kind of gave me like the, the dad nod and he hugged me. And I was like, okay, I was like, you got to make this happen now because you know, no one's getting the nod.

41:26And when you get the nod from the person that you highly respect, you have to do the work. So I went through absolute madness in the gym to get ready for that one. So that's, I mean, that's what I ended with right. Seven. So, and that number was just so special so yeah that one was probably the most memorable and it didn't hurt the fact that the rock was there announcing it oh that's right you know so that was pretty cool too that's right

41:52Adam Schafer:what what did you do because there was i mean your body progressed uh throughout the years but your back made this huge like transformation yeah it was not a bad body part but then became one of the best what was the difference in your training uh or what did you do that really that made the difference with the back training i think um because you just brought like a hundred level of like thickness yeah is what i think it was more of like the barbell rows um not dumbbell rows but more barbell like overhand and underhand barbell rows that was really a strong point for me especially underhand ones because i felt like i could pull my elbows back so much deeper like the yates row basically yeah and um anything was good for him it was definitely good for me right so um and then just the volume i was doing so much volume for back i was trading back and legs twice a week for those shows because i knew that those were areas that if i could get them up i would be a force to be reckoned with um but a lot of rowing movements initially when i got into bodybuilding i was always like oh feels narrow i'm too narrow oh so i was like so i was thinking well all right i'll do width just from pull-ups and pull-downs and all that stuff and I got some width off of that but then I was like if I can get round like how I do in the chest and the arms and shoulders I'll get round if I get round here oh man it's going to be really nutty so did anybody coach you to really throw those rows in was it another competitor or was it just you saying okay I know these are good for I would probably say I mean watching those you know blood and guts during these videos and watching Ronnie the unbelievable video like that I can't watch those and work out because I'll hurt myself There you go.

43:35Right?

43:36Adam Schafer:Yeah, buddy. Yeah. Yeah, dude. You start going crazy. But, yeah, I'd say those videos and then the old school Mr. Okabe videos of Battle for the Olympia. Oh, yeah. You know, watching Jay at, you know, Gold Flamingo and, you know, doing back and stuff, saying he's going to chase Ronnie to go beat him. You know, it was always back. Yep. And that was the era, right? If you didn't have a back, you weren't going to win the Olympia. So I just thought, well, then back it is. The other one would be you were known for your delts as well. um it was that always a focus because of the narrow criticism yes whatever 100 okay because you got to create an illusion so if you can cap your shoulders yeah you're just gonna and you're gonna look great in the quarter turns because a lot of people don't realize like when you train arms non-stop you have these big biceps and then your triceps stick out your rear delts are tiny yeah and it hurts your most muscular it really hurts like when you do a crab and you don't have that it's it's not going to look right so like you look at kevin levroni like i was just gonna i was just gonna say your your delts remind me of his yeah like and his are just some of the best it's just phenomenal yeah so i always looked at his videos and his magazines so delt training was you know i say like 2010 was the year that like i started really noticing the change and that was also because of the fact that i stopped training arms once a week i would train every other week.

45:00Because they were just too... It would just throw off the symmetry. It's just throw off the balance. Honey and I talked about it. He had to coerce me big time that he doesn't want to train arms. I was just going to say, how did you convince yourself? Do you want to win or not? Yeah. Do you trust your coach or not? And if I say yes, then that means be coachable. And if the results aren't what you want, then I can always fire them. I mean, that's just the honest to God truth, right? But it worked. And the quality that I had, like 2010 Arnold, I think is one of my best physiques as well. Like that was nasty.

45:32But it was like, I was so full. And it was in the delts and the upper chest that really made that difference.

45:39Adam Schafer:What about the training? What were the, did you do any specific extras? You said rear delts. I think a lot of people don't realize how big of a role the rear delt plays in the roundness. You got to do that reverse pec deck. You got to do the face pulls. You got to do the dumbbells. You know, you got to do everything. I would do them like even on back day too. Just add a little extra. Yeah, why not? You can keep them fuller. Just keep them activated. Behind the neck presses was something that I liked to do as well. So that's rad because that was the way bodybuilders shoulder pressed in the 90s.

46:13Adam Schafer:Yes. Everybody did behind the neck. Yep. Then it was like, these are dangerous. They're not good for you type of deal. Yeah, if you're doing like three plates. Or technique and biomechanics. Or technique is bad. You don't have the mobility for it. Talk about why you like them. Because when I do them, they feel totally different than a traditional shoulder press. I liked them because they were difficult, because I knew I couldn't, you know, throw up more than a plate at first. You know, doing from the front, you can throw two plates on there and, you know, yeah, it's heavy. Yeah. But you can get through it.

46:39Try doing that from the rear. Like you said, mobility. You realize there's a hole, there's a real gap here of strength. So if I could, if I can get stronger back there, then how, my physique is going to look better. So doing those and also standing military presses, I was doing those a lot too.

46:55Adam Schafer:That's so great. Okay, so this is also great to hear because especially with bodybuilding or when people talk about just hypertrophy training, oh, it's the same thing, standing seated. It's not the same thing. It doesn't feel the same. There's way more stability involved. I've always gotten better results from standing. I did it with my clients because my clients weren't bodybuilders. They were just everyday people, and it was more functional. Yes. But why would you, a pro bodybuilder, choose to do them standing? What did you notice from doing standing? Well, we did those when I played basketball in college.

47:26You know, just push presses. Yeah. Just because you got ready for like clean and jerk, you know. But then I saw Jay Cutler do it. And I trained with him one time. We were in Hawaii, actually. We were guest posing at Mr. Okabe's Hawaii Islands competition. I think Sean Ray runs that now. And he was like, let's go to the gym. And he's just loading up the plates, man. He's got two plates on here. Just rah, rah. I was like, dude, let me try that. And then you realize like you're just not as strong as you think. But I thought, oh, core stability is going to be a big deal here. My mid thoracic spine is aching from doing this.

48:08My low back is aching. Legs are twitching. Like that means I don't, there's a hole in this physique. So how about I just start with a plate? Let's start with, hell, like let's just start with 225s on each side and just really get the motion going. This is what I'm supposed to feel. Okay. Throw a plate on. And then just master that. That was something I feel like I did better than most people, even people that don't compete, is that I knew that I have to start somewhere and I need to master the smallest weight before I go up to the bigger weight.

48:36Adam Schafer:Do you think your experience as an athlete played a role in that? Because you're talking like. Yeah, sounds like it. Yeah, because strength training is a skill. Exercises are all skills. They're all techniques. And athletes get that. You know when you play basketball, it's not about just going as hard as you can. You get practice. It's about like you got to perfect the skill. Right. Do you think that played a role in how you approach your workouts where you're like, okay, this is a skill. It's not just hit my delts. It's also – do you think that played a role in that? I think so because inherently like what do you do when you're shooting hoops?

49:10Like you start like two feet away from the basket, take a step back, do the same thing. I mean that's how I learned how to shoot, you know. and you also have to visualize it you know i used to visualize the basket the the ball going through the basket so you sit under stand underneath it and you have your friend just shoot it or you just shoot it you know you just go like that and watch it go through through through through through and then that now you know what that sounds like you know what it's supposed to look like and then you start making it happen for me it was like okay i should have the fundamentals with shooting a basketball with one hand and then take a step back take a step back now you're shooting threes with one hand with no problem.

49:50Now this is just guide hands. So yeah, you start to get those reps and then you realize like, okay, if I'm doing alternating dumbbell curls, why don't you just stay on one side and make sure that I get all these done correctly? Because when I start doing this, I start leaning and I start doing this. Why am I doing this? Why can I just stand like this? And then as it gets heavier, maybe I throw a little body English toward the end, but um and then just checking your insecurity man like i've done videos where i'm like curling 35s and stuff and people are like oh man i could do that and i'm like yeah but you don't look like me yeah and they're like oh well i'm not on gear and i'm like okay i was in high school looking better than you what are you talking about you know oh we just got genetics like no dude i'm willing to really focus on supinating the wrist squeezing at the peak contraction and being able to hold it.

50:40That's real strength. And then also, um, doing photo shoots early in my career, back when photo shoots were a thing, you would have to, Chris Lund, I don't know if you remember Chris Lund, he would make us, I mean, hold those dumbbells, those barbells for like seconds. It felt like minutes, but they're like, you know, you had to hold that peak contraction. This is the money shot. This is the best shot. And you're like, no, he's like, yes, yes. And then I remember him telling me right before I turned pro he says um if you train like that every so often you're gonna get really strong I was like what he's holding the dumbbell like pre-contractions just like what you did so then I started throwing that into my routines and like when I'm doing presses and just knowing talking about my muscle connection how you're gonna have my muscle connection when you're going super fast like you're just it's not gonna happen so I just again And training by myself, knowing myself, not being afraid to go up a little bit, and not being concerned with what everybody else is doing.

51:41I still go through that. Like, I'll go to the gym tomorrow, and I'll see somebody training, and I'm like, man, I want to lift that 400-pound bench. And I'm like, but you can't, dude. Like, that's not you. That's just not you, but you're right at 315, or you're right at 275. How can you make that work for you? How does that feel for you? Oh, that feels really good. Do you feel it in your shoulders? Do you feel it in any other places? No. Then how's your pump? Pump's way better than him. Well, then why are you tripping then? Why are you focusing on their race? Run yours.

52:10Adam Schafer:Yeah. I think that's so important. It's important for people to understand because it also reduces risk of injury. And again, you're treating the exercises like they're skills, not just a way to make my quad sore or whatever. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you don't want to be on gym fails. That's for sure. You don't want to be on that. And look, luckily I've only had like a couple times where I've had like a twinge, you know, about benching or something like that. Where I'm like, oh man, like that could be like a partial tear. But for me it was always like trying to train too hard or too heavy or so much volume toward the end of a prep.

52:49Because I'm probably a little too lean to be going that hard.

52:52Adam Schafer:Yeah, that's when the risk is high. Yeah, that's where I noticed like, okay, you're taking a vasoconstrictor with a vasodilator and you're lean and you're pushing all this blood into this area. You don't think you're ever going to cramp up. You don't think that you're tearing anything. Dude, like, yeah, something's going to happen one day. Speaking of prep, now that GLPs are so widely available, how prevalent are they in pre-contest prep? Are bodybuilders using them like crazy? I've heard everyone's doing it. I mean, when I say everyone, I mean, probably over 90 % of people, I've heard a lot of guys talk about it.

53:30I mean, I have my opinions about it.

53:34Adam Schafer:I just think that. Well, does it feel to you? Because to me, when I look at bodybuilding before GLPs, discipline's crazy. Right. But the diet discipline's the craziest. Yes. Like, you know, 12 weeks of diet. Yeah. And what you hear that these guys are eating and just the discipline around, it's insane. Yep. And to me, it's almost like, I mean, cheating is the wrong word, but it's like. Kind of. Yeah, you earned it. Yeah. I mean, I kind of feel what you're saying, though. It's like they don't suffer, I guess. You're not really suffering. Yes. I don't think they're willing to suffer. And I think the physiques are, I think you're seeing more athletes now that can't peak for more than one event because of it.

54:14Say it's work ethic. I also think it's because of what they're taking. Interesting. Why are we not seeing people peak? I was just going to ask you. Pro bodybuilder and you, for real, like we're talking about open guys because the classic guys I think are doing a really good job. Yeah. You know, Mensa Zeke, I think they're doing a really good job. Pro bodybuilders carry, open class guys carry more muscle, right? But why are they off? Like there's no freaking reason. Guys Green Earth, like why you should be like, I'm talking about like way off. We're talking about like over 10%. Wow. Like that's a lack of dedication and discipline.

54:51And, oh, it's not. Like if someone says, well, it's not like a discipline. It's like, well, then where's your discipline with how you end up saying, I'm going to take this drug then that you really don't need. So when it comes to GOPs, I don't think anyone should do them because so they're supposed to, what, slow things down, right? Like gastric emptying or whatever. But aren't you trying to eat over 3 ,500 calories a day? You go on GOPs, man. you ain't gonna i've been on glp yeah i don't want to eat no 3500 calories the food noise is like uh-uh like i don't want to eat anything if anything i want to throw up like you know so i don't see so that's the thing it's like so i'm going to do a glp one but i'm going to take ghrp six that's you're gonna that's stupid but i've heard these things i'm like you're you're trying to over complicate a simple solution which is simply do your cardio go do your diet don't throw and don't think that you're Ronnie Coleman and you could throw a KC masterpiece on your freaking chicken.

55:54And, you know, you can't throw barbecue sauce on your chicken and you, just because you're on insulin and all this other stuff, you know what I'm saying? You hear these stories, right? Like everybody thinks they're Coleman or someone like that. You know, I had a friend that did that once. I go to his house and I see a meal prep and I was like, dude, like how much barbecue sauce do you put on this? You're in off season, right? He's like, no man, I'm pre-contest. I was like, oh, that's tasty though. I was like, how are you, how are you really dieting if that's what you're doing?

56:17Adam Schafer:in my opinion because I know people will point to PED use but with PED use you still have to work out okay you gotta you still gotta lift you gotta make it work yeah but there's like synthol which is cheating totally that's just putting oil in your muscle and we got a lot of that or at least a derivative of that right and I almost feel like GLP is in the same category it's like I'm gonna pre-contest but I'm gonna crush my appetite as a bodybuilder right I get the use for people who are obese but I'm a bodybuilder I got 12 weeks out I'm just going to use this red and I'm just going to kill my appetite.

56:49You're skipping one of the two main things that make it a sport. Yeah, exactly. Like the sport of bodybuilding is the lifting portion of it and the diet. Those are the two parts that make. Adam, how do you do it when all your friends are doing it? Yeah. You know? But, hey, this guy's over there. But like you said, I think it's showing up on stage. I think it's the person who's willing to take those shortcuts, not do those things. It's probably showing up in other factors. I think so, too. I think that's why we're seeing no one with diet face anymore. No one sucked in.

57:19Adam Schafer:No one sucked in in the face. You got guys winning shows that still got fat faces. It's because they're freaking inflamed. Why are they inflamed? Probably it ain't from the inflammatory foods because we see them all on YouTube, right? It's probably from the compounds, whether it's too much of the PED side, the anabolics, or it could be other things. You throw a bunch of peptides at it. This is still stuff that I get it. It works. but I think majority of that stuff should be used more off season or left out during contest prep, because unless if you have a real injury, I don't really think, you know, or we have enough data to say like, Oh, this can cause water retention.

57:59This like, I know that taking growth hormone during prep, like at some point in time you got to cut that out because you are going to

58:05Adam Schafer:hold water. It's also, I remember we had Dr. Seeds on a couple of times and he's like one of the leading doctors and researchers. And I think I know bodybuilder mentality and I respect it. They're the kamikazes. They figure this stuff out and they risk their lives. And I get it. But the mentality with bodybuilding is if some is good, more is better. And I remember Dr. Seed saying that that's not how you want to do with peptides. He's like, you're not trying to throw 15 peptides at yourself because the way they interact with the body, they're not going to work so well together. We're going to focus on this, do that for a while.

58:36Adam Schafer:Maybe it's mitochondrial health. Then we'll pull that out. Then we're going to work on this. Or maybe we'll work on this part of mitochondrial health. Then we pull that out. And then we work on this other part of mitochondrial health rather than throwing everything in the kitchen sink at yourself. I think that's the problem. Like you said, I mean, they're just willing to, because they have access to it as well. I mean, look, like we used to talk about the guys that used to travel over to Kuwait to go to oxygen gym and stuff like that because they had the best equipment. Is that still happening?

59:01Is that still a big thing?

59:02Adam Schafer:I don't know. It was like a big thing for a while. Yeah, they come back. Yeah. Crazy looking. Who was it that told us? They said, well, the difference is they just go there and that's just eat, sleep, and train. Yeah. Well, there was that part. I mean, yeah, I'm not throwing shade at that part, but they had a lot of things more readily available. Yeah, that's what it was. They had like a straight pharmacy for all of them. Yeah. Like, oh, if there was a drought in the States, they ain't got no drought of that. You know, they had that on, you know, really available. But I agree. I think it should just come down to how dedicated can you be with your diet and training?

59:37Reduce inflammation at all costs. and a lot of those compounds you like you said you take more side effects come and no one really has the data to say like oh yeah you should take like 10 different uh pds and you know like you know anabolics and you should do 10 freaking different pemptizes i would probably now that i'm thinking about it because i try to gamify this for myself i'm like if you were to you know do that i'm like well i probably want to make sure that i'm i have zero issues with my gut microbiome So I'm thinking of maybe some KPVs, BPC, stuff like that.

1:00:14Adam Schafer:Especially in the off-season when you're eating a lot of food. Off-season, yeah, and mitochondria health. Because without that, your system's wrecked already, and then you're just throwing a bunch of stuff at it. It doesn't make sense. I think that maybe IGF-1, I think that's pretty good. But I just think still it comes down to the grittiness of just training and just really getting after it and making sure that you know how to use food as your ally to go get how you want to look. And you have to be building hard, grainy muscle at some point. Like if you've been in this game for 10 plus years and you don't have any type of striations, even in your off season, there's a problem.

1:00:53There's an issue. Like I know genetically there's probably some data that says that, yeah, you can train as hard as you want, but you might not have strided glutes or let's just say strided quads or something like that better than the next guy. but I still think you should have something. Like there should be a body part, especially like the delts and the chest and the arms. Like you should have, and I don't see that as much in the open division. I do see it in like lower divisions as far as like weight is concerned because they're not above like, you know, 240, 250. And that's usually because maybe they are injecting some oil or whatever.

1:01:26I don't know. Yeah. I think it's just taking too much stuff. Yeah. I just, like you said, I think that their body's inflamed. they're just taking so much stuff to just be probably leading into the show too because i've asked guys like hey so when you start peeling this back and they kind of look at you like what there's a feel like at some point you know you have to think like that's oil like it's still oil right with benzoyl alcohol whatever yeah it's anabolic compound it needs to get through that it needs to get through your system and that at least that's what i did yeah because i want because i was a big stickler on skin texture and being light-skinned and all that stuff like you want to I have an advantage, so to speak, but I want to make sure that I'm dying away all the fat and really all I have left is just water.

1:02:09And I'll just peel it back just enough. But it's because of the fact that I might have over dieted just a little bit during prep so that we can do the carb up more flawlessly without having to rely on blood pressure meds. Because I think through the diuretic usage on top of all that, that's where really people, you know, crap the bed. because they're thinking like, all right, well, I'll just take, I'll just cut the water and I'll just take more pills. And I'm like, and then you're wondering why you're flat. You're taking blood pressure meds, dude. Your blood pressure's down here and you're trying to have it up here so you can get a pump.

1:02:45It's not going to work like that. So again, you can't be throwing all this stuff into this machine and expect it to be perfect.

1:02:54Adam Schafer:Yeah, I've heard some horror stories, some pre-contest horror stories. or, you know, David, did you ever have any leading up to a show where you're like, man, I ain't feeling good. Never. The only time I had an issue was in 09 when I had food poisoning. That was it. I had food poisoning after meeting the Olympians. I wasn't feeling right. And I had noticed, like, I was tracking my weight leading up to the show. I was like, man, you're, like, losing, like, five pounds every other day. And, like, what's going on? And I think I caught, like, a stomach bug. And then that Thursday night after meeting the Olympians, I was puking for, like, hours, dude.

1:03:26I had the EMTs coming to my room like early, early Friday morning. They didn't leave until like five, almost six in the morning. And I was not going to compete. And that's when I was like, okay, can I please, God, please? You know, like, I mean, and the EMTs were like, you throw it one more time, we're taking you in. There's no show for you. We got to run fluids and your show's done. And I was like, I will hold that in for real. I was like, I'm just not going to say anything. I'm just going to meditate and I'm just going to be like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. You know what I'm saying? Because I was like, yeah, I think that was a year after my first Mr.

1:04:04Olympia where I placed third. So I'm thinking, well, I have a chance to place top three again. It didn't work out that way. But yeah, that was the only real, I would say, as far as like an illness. Yeah, that was the only year I ever had anything like that. Do you think the judges ever got to see your best physique? I know almost every one of my pro buddies, when we talk about peaking on stage, most all of us have said, I never brought the best. Like, best me was either hours later, the next day, two days before. Or do you feel like you've presented the best you? I think, well, I could say no, but for probably a different reason.

1:04:43Okay. It's because I ended up getting hernias. So if I'd have never got that. And winning 10 Mr. Olympias would have not been a problem. They would have seen something. I mean, they've already seen some stuff from me that was never, I don't think will be duplicated in some way. You know, I'm the only Mr. Olympia to ever win seven consecutive in a two day show format. No one's ever done that. And do you feel on all those, like when you hit stage, this was best you? No, I think like every year had his own story. Right, right. Because I feel like that's a common theme. You are the most winning guy though I've talked to.

1:05:22So I was really curious to ask you. So 11, yeah, that was like the best balance on Friday, Saturday. 12, I believe like it was a different physique because I was going after more density, knowing that I was only thinking about Kai. And he was a very dense bodybuilder. So I was like, well, my shape and conditioning is always going to carry me through. But if I can train with more eccentric movements like he did, and I can just get a little bit more thickness like in the back, I'm going to be just fine. So that's what happened there. 2013 I basically took 2011 and 2012 had them merged together and it was in perfect harmony and that was fantastic 2014 what happened 2014 oh I ended up eating there was a recall on freaking almond butter and I was eating it for three months and didn't know it because I already had it stocked up in the house so I had I ended up taking calcium what's it called magnesium whatever citrate yeah and it created like a rock in my stomach and I didn't realize like, Oh, I need to now hydrate.

1:06:23Oh man, this is not going to be good. So I couldn't go to the bathroom. So I just had like, you know, water like on me in 2014. Thank goodness Kai didn't look that great in Friday because I probably would have lost because by Saturday I fixed it. But Friday I was like, not well, but that was also the year that he and I got into it. 2015, I came in more streamlined because I was so afraid that, But, you know, I was like I was getting too big and I was like, and I'm honestly I'm listening to too many people. That's when the Internet was like, oh, yeah, you know, he's got this, you know, problem with his stomach and this and that.

1:06:55And judges like, hey, let's keep it together. So I was like, all right, bet 2015. I just came out there. If you look at prejudging, came out there with red pros and joints. I just go like now what? That means I should win because I lost probably like a good eight pounds of muscle just to make sure that I was shredded, shredded. And the only person I was going against really at the time was Dexter and the late Sean Roden. So I kind of picked the way I wanted to look based on the field. Yeah. Because in 2016, I told Honey, I was like, let's just go for broke. And that means Friday, like, let's not wait till Saturday.

1:07:27Let's just go. And that was like the hardest, like, grainiest version of myself on Friday. And then 2017, you know, I thought we did really good. I think the problem is, again, that's when the hernias really came into play in 2017. And in 2018, of course, you know, I tore my incisions, didn't really get to showcase how I wanted. But 2020, when I came back, I will say this. If I was to ever release the contest pictures for 2020, which everybody says that, oh, yeah, if I show you the pictures, man, listen, that year, even though because I didn't do 2019. if I would have came in right we totally missed our mark like we did something stupid you know going like two weeks out I would never advise it I basically did a different diuretic than I ever did in my career and um you know it was my body my choice type of thing you know you can get advice but I'm not going to blame anybody I raised my hand to that it just didn't work and um I came in more flat and not myself.

1:08:33My electrolyte balance was completely off. And, um, I felt like I had like two chins, you know, cause I was running a different diuretic that time and I wasn't getting the same type of food and it was just recipe for disaster. But two weeks out, I was probably like, I think I was still like two 60, like two 62 and hard. Like, and you know how I get hard like grill marks in the glutes like I was like to the point where I was having to eat like no bs like every day steak and eggs every day I had to have it with hash browns and a biscuit like I'm not even playing like it wasn't because of we handle GOP ones it wasn't because of anything but just a basic ass fat burner L-carnitine coffee for you know that was the cardio mix and literally just like i was running hard like my metabolism was on fire and i think from the muscle maturity like i learned as i got older because of real muscle you needed to feed the muscle more like you could get away and that's probably why ronnie was able to eat the way he did because he had so much muscle like he had to feed it some extra calories whereas other people they don't have that quality of muscle to even substantiate that but yeah i don't think the judges really got to see the best version because I got hurt and then I missed my peak in 2020 but man those are those nightmares I'll probably have for the rest of my life you're the first person I've actually heard come to stage like with that mentality that was really interesting to hear you talk about because most guys are just competing against themselves they're trying to bring the better version of them where you actually took into consideration like I'm going to be going up against this guy yeah I know what I know who I'm going against like if I say I'm going against Kai I got to assess what his strengths and weaknesses are.

1:10:19Okay, he's more dense. I don't need to be as big. I just need to be a better version of me in these particular areas. Yeah, I've never heard anyone else go at it like that. Because it's like fighting. Counter punches are massive in a fight, right? Well, it makes sense. But a guy like I feel like only you could kind of get to do that because you know you're going to be in the top two. Everybody else is just like, I got to get better. I got to get better. I'll be glad if I make top ten or whatever. where you know, like, I know I'm going to be battling for probably the top three spots. This is who I'm going after.

1:10:51This is how they're going to look. I already know I got them beat with fullness. Yeah. I think I knew, like, early on that I would be a bigger version of a Dexter Jackson because he and I had, like, similar conditioning. So I always told myself, like, if he's going to be the most conditioned, I got to be right there because I ain't going to be no Jay Cutler. I'm not structurally wide like that. I got to be who I am. so I always looked at myself like more like a combination of like flex Kevin and Chris you know Cormier like somewhere around there so let me let me like let me look at those three physiques and pick and choose like where I feel like my physique lies and really it was just conditioning I was like I can get around like them I can have no weakness really like them I just got to make sure that when I'm dieted down I don't lose my legs because that's a big thing um for me that I was like, make sure because I did so much cardio, like I was so cardio heavy that, you know, your legs got to survive, you know.

1:11:49And then just knowing that don't do anything that you consider 5 % better, getting 5 % better because you'd be 20 % worse. So none of that crazy stuff you read online, like, oh, yeah, eat pie filling before the show and like have like three burgers. And it's like, yeah, that might work for one show. And then the next one, you're going to look like ass, you know. So I kept a journal actually for every contest. I kept a journal and I'm talking about a journal, like not just food, but like even when I went to the bathroom. Oh, wow. And like how often was it number one or number two? Was it, you know, like all that.

1:12:24I kept journals on all that. And I would bring it to Vegas. So I'd be there for like 10 days and I would give it to Honey. We'd look at it and we'd like, OK, we're kind of ahead of schedule. Oh, yeah. What did we do last year? OK, we did this. OK, that didn't work last year. Let's do this, you know. Yeah, yeah. But at least we had kind of like a guide. Who gave you the nickname? An old roommate. So yeah, when? Is that college? No, like post-college. He was like, yeah, your nickname's The Gift, man. Not because it's just, people are going to get messed up. They're going to think like, oh, you're calling yourself The Gift.

1:12:58I'm like, no, no, no. It's more like everybody has one, but mine is different because I'm going to be able to come from a different sport in basketball. going to be articulate going to have a different type of swagger and i'm going to connect with people differently through that and i just was like bro like that ain't going to sound right initially so we're just going to run with the most arrogant one and we're just going to let people make define it however they want because that just sounds too scientific yeah yeah but really that's what it is it was really like i have a gift it's really like back in what oh five what were bodybuilders considered you know freaks yeah you know meatheads everything negative like everything was negative yeah and mine was more like no man like i'm just taking the gift that i have i'm cultivating it just like any superhero would the the first matrix he don't even know who he is yeah and the second one he does then the third one he's ready to go dominate same with luke skywalker same thing so it's like taking her gift now that i'm winning now i get to tell people you have a gift you go find that niche figure it out learn it face yourself over and over again

1:14:04Adam Schafer:do the work and then when it's your turn you share it how how hard is it to transition because you're so meticulous as a pro competing for years uh counting you're journaling your bowel movements yeah diet yeah and then no no no like how meticulous people collect it you know like like how they collect Putin stuff you know yeah can't give out all the secrets No. That's right. You go from tracking everything to regular life. Yeah. What is that like? You know, it's so bad because now you're calling me out. I feel attacked. I mean, it's got to be a hard transition. It's got to be weird. Because you just be like, all right, I don't need that notebook anymore.

1:14:46Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Hobbies? Did you pick up new hobbies or go back to hobbies? I was in depression for four and a half years. Four and a half, bro? Four and a half. That's tough. No shit? Yeah. Wow. No BS, man.

1:14:58Adam Schafer:Well, you're so driven towards something, and then it's gone. I mean, it's normal to go through a little bit. Four and a half is the conundrum, yeah. Four and a half, man. Yeah, it hit everything. You know, COVID didn't help me any well. Oh, yeah, bad timing. COVID was bad timing. God, bad timing. And then, you know, I did the 2020 Olympia. I had already been finishing up our documentary, Breaking Olympia. And then after that, you know, I was being managed by Danny Garcia at the time with the Garcia Company at Seven Bucks because they were a part of the doc. and then my whole transition was to try to go into Hollywood.

1:15:28Well, I had to stay in shape past the Olympia. So that late spring, I got a call to be in the, through Warner Brothers, to be in Black Adam. That never came into fruition. Still got paid, but didn't happen. But yet I'm still having to get lean. And, you know, I got down to like 226, which was like, obviously I ain't on nothing. I'm on Peloton twice a day. And I'm like emaciated where people are like, dude, you're doing a show again. And I thought you retired. And I was like, nah, man. So I think after that, and I realized like the way I view it, the Hollywood thing wasn't going to pan out because I just was not going to take that shot.

1:16:11I was not going to take that jab, dude. And I think that that and that's just my opinion. I just feel like that alone was probably making people feel nervous. So none of that really came into fruition. in the other films that I was offered, it was overly sexualized. I was like, I'm not going to be just some sex dude. Just some weirdo. Shadows to anybody. Why do they do that to the bodybuilder guy? Yeah, why? Because they want to see. To their point, some directors are probably like, I'm getting to see one of the best physiques of all time and I can't get him to take his shirt off. Take your clothes off.

1:16:48Take your clothes off. you know it'd be like seeing like Pamela Anderson you don't want to see her to take her clothes off like as a director they're probably like no I want to see her that's like your thing right you're a bodybuilder take your clothes off yeah like why are you so weird about it wink wink why are you so weird about it it's like so I'm like no I want to be there for my artistic ability and did you see mics yeah hey bro hey listen listen you didn't warn us about that bro I know he's a homie He comes on the show. Why are you letting us know? He comes on the show. We have a great company.

1:17:18He's a boy. And he's promoting it. And like, hey, not one time you're going to give me a heads up on what I'm going to watch. Oh, he didn't tell us? No, he didn't tell us shit, bro. He didn't tell us nothing. He didn't say like, hey, prepare yourself. No, nothing. He could have been like, hey, prepare yourself. Just a homie nod. Just off air. You go, hey, just so you know. This is the role. But didn't say nothing. You seen the theater or at home? I saw it at home. Thank God. Yeah. I'm watching. Would you do like pause? I watch it first. These guys haven't watched it yet. And I'm like. So then you're just as bad as him.

1:17:49Bro. Because you didn't tell them. Oh, I know. I told him. I texted him. You gotta watch this. I was like, dude, you guys have to. Nobody still made us watch it. I said, you have to watch this. And I was like, because I can't believe he came on the show, talked all this the whole time about it, and then even off air never once gave us like a plot. Ooh, boy. Yeah, dude. I mean, good for him, man. I love him, man. Him and Mona, you know. No, they're great. They are great. We got nothing but love for him. But to not give us a heads up on like what. I just couldn't do it. I couldn't either. I wouldn't be able to.

1:18:19Yeah, that really led into like a lot of like, where's my identity? Because I put it so much into sports my whole life from childhood to, you know, everybody. Majority of people, their last high school football game, that's it. Basketball game, that's it. For me, I got to go to college now. I wasn't no star or anything, but I still was on a team. You got to take me through. first before we move on because I'm still stuck on the mic and the fact that you because I never thought that this is probably a thing that they poach look it up they are like no we want to know what we can get away with and that is not something that is told to you

1:19:01Adam Schafer:first historical contemporary concept of sexual brutalization humiliating black men wow I did not even know this is a thing Think about most black dudes you see on TV. Have they either worn a dress or they're out there being a sex symbol? Like overly sexualized. Not like something chill. I think that part of that too is their little satanic initiation. Oh, 100%. The humiliation rituals. That's what we get away with. Are they offering good money even? Because I'm sure some. I wouldn't have known. Okay, so you didn't even entertain it. I didn't get to that point. You didn't even entertain it. No, because when you're reading the script, for all I know, the script that I was reading, to be completely honest, might have been for that same film.

1:19:45Because it sounded very... No, like the first scene was like me in like a freaking truck driving to a gym. And I'm kind of like just like staring off into the world just like again. And a girl's head pops up. And it's like, really? That's the first scene? Like, you know what I'm saying? And you know what's funny? I'll never forget it. Like, hey, props to you, bro. My wife and I are reading this. We're reading this. Like, I'm, and I should have been doing this, but, you know, you're texting and driving, and I'm reading the text while I'm driving, and she's reading it, and I was, like, waiting for her response, and I was, like, nah.

1:20:21Text them back and say, that's just not what I'm looking for. I wanted to be, like, you know, a Coach Carter or, like, you know, Denzel and, like, remember the Titans, you know, the Rock and, like, Gridiron Gang, something like that, you know I'm saying where I'm helping out youth or something like that to pull from like my old DNA of like being in sport, not that part. Good for you though, because I bet a lot of guys are want to be in Hollywood so bad that they're tempted by that, that they're like, Hey, I got to pay my dues. I mean, I get it. Like if you're an actor and that's all you, and if that's your thing and, and granted, like I would say this, you're an artist.

1:20:57That is not your identity. You're playing a different identity. So if you're, if I'm an actor and they say hey Phil you got to be an ex-murderer and I'm like hell no you know but if I'm that I gotta act yeah so they're probably thinking the same thing this is just a role that I'm acting with it's not I'm not really that person but my whole thing is but what if I like it how is that gonna sit and really do I need to have this conversation with my wife and be like hey like I'm about to do this film I'm gonna have this love scene this and that Are we cool? We don't fly like that. And we had this conversation like long before.

1:21:37So, you know, we just have some standards. And it's not to, you know, poke at anybody else. I mean, they lived their life. It was just not for me. And I'm fortunate enough to have things to, quote unquote, fall back on or fall into. And look, I would still entertain doing a film. It would just have to be something that I would like to do. that would, I think ethically and morally would make sense because I'd also have to be good at what I'm portraying. So then if you guys are watching it, you could say, well, that's not Phil, that's Jake. That's whoever I'm playing. Because otherwise, you guys would read right through that.

1:22:16Adam Schafer:At this point, when you were going through this identity thing and you're looking at Hollywood, which by the way, kudos to you for sticking your guns. At that point, was your faith strong? like it is now or was that later that was like the start okay because that was when we're living in florida and i think being out there man i just felt like there was no like although the state was free you know especially post-covid and all that stuff there was no faith yeah you never saw that like there was no one i met at the gym or anything it was like oh yeah man me and the guys were about to go to Bible study or about to go to, you know, about to go do this, that, and the other.

1:23:00But I would hear that even when I was in Denver, I was just like, I'm fixated on this Olympia stuff. So I just felt like everything when I was, when we were living in South Florida was like, how much money you have? What kind of car you drive? Like, where are you going out to dinner? It was like flashy culture. And I'll be honest, like there was a point in time in my life where I was very flashy. But at this point, you know, some things got stripped away due to COVID, you know? So I started having a bigger faith walk just out of the necessity of wanting something bigger than myself and then trying to figure out, OK, I'm clearly troubled because I've focused on the validation of the world.

1:23:42There I said it. Damn. Damn, damn, damn. And then you're having the conflict of saying, but but look what I got from it. traveling the world, meeting people, becoming somebody. And it's like, well, who do you think got you through it? And who do you think is going to get you through this one now? So that's when you're on your knees screaming, hollering, like, you know, not knowing who you are, but just crying out, saying, Lord, please. Like, it ain't just the DMX on the Lord. Give me a sign. It's like, for real, like tears in your eyes of like, I just need to know what it is that I'm supposed to be doing.

1:24:19and I'll just wait. I'll just wait. And next thing you know, better deals came and things that I really wanted to do came. And yeah, you make a deal here to go bad. That's just the way of being an entrepreneur. It happens. But I started feeling like more discernment. And I'd say through that walk, I started realizing that the reason, even as I'm talking about it, like the gym, the gym served a different purpose back then. And then having to start from zero and going through that depression, I had to recreate it for something for the next, for the next nine holes of this golf course. So now I'm at a point where, yeah, the depression was real.

1:25:05To the point where, you know, I got three different types of sand out trophies in my house. That alone should make me happy. Right. But no, because I had a hollow victory, every one of them because I was able to leverage all my small and big trauma. All my pain went through that. People, I was probably the best at training angry, but it yielded something that the world wanted. Yeah. That I believe God gave me an opportunity. So he gave me a platform, but now I get to use it for something else. And I just didn't know what that was. Now I feel like I'm learning like, no, you're the evidence, Phil, like you were able to get through this.

1:25:41And if If you're on the other side, healthy and strong and you can motivate people to live a better life and give a damn about their success. But then also enjoy it because I can't remember like more than 10 instances where I was really enjoying this.

1:25:57Adam Schafer:I got a question for you. I don't know if this is a similar experience for you, but I always used to train angry. That's just how I worked out. As a kid, angry, angry music, death metal. Let's go. Yeah, yeah. And the more angry, the better. And don't approach me while I'm working out. And then I become a Christian. And this wasn't all my doing. This was just a gift. Right. It was just a blessing. My music changed. And I work out joyful now, which is very, it's better. I'm laughing because I'm like, yeah. Okay, so it's better. It's weird because I would have never said that before. Right. It was like, I'm at war.

1:26:33Adam Schafer:And now I'm like smiling. I'm singing worship music. And I'm joyful. Yep. Very different experience. It's a better experience. Are you finding any of that? Is it workouts become more? I'm laughing because I have found that. Okay. And I think when people have seen me, like the best compliment I've received is, Phil, you look so happy. Oh, okay. And I think that's why. That's cool. Because they probably saw me. I mean, people live through YouTube, right? So they've seen like all these videos and stuff of like, Phil's a freaking dream killer and this and that. And it's like, yeah, I was, dude. And I can't lie, man.

1:27:04And that ego got me through life. That ego kept me alive in certain instances. That ego got me those titles, you know, through the pain and this and that. But I don't need him anymore. It's not a life or death situation. I don't have to live in fight or flight. And I do the same thing. And as a matter of fact, I post a lot of Christian hip hop, you know, a lot of Christian rap. And it's funny because you have like your playlist. and I started looking through my playlist and I'm like, I can't really vibe with that no more. And I started deleting some of those playlists. Isn't that wild? Yeah, it has been wild.

1:27:40Like, so wait a minute. I used to, you know, I used like Spotify so I can see like the lyrics. I started reading them and I was like. It's preaching to you. No, but the other stuff. That's what I mean. The old stuff will preach to you.

1:27:52Adam Schafer:You got to make sure. This is bad, bro. Like, what are we talking about? Like the things that we're saying. And I'm thinking, yeah, I don't like that anymore. So when I hear like a bunch of, you know, like really nasty derogatory language, like foul language at the gyms, I literally have to make sure that my earbuds are like charged up, ready to roll because I just don't vibe with it. And yeah, I listen to praise and worship while I train. I'm happier when I train. People are probably, you know, they see me at the gym and I think when I'm training, I'm very stoic. So you don't know I'm a very hard person to read.

1:28:27So they don't know if I'm approachable or not. And I'm like, no, no, no, come on over and take a picture of this and that. And they're like, are you sure? I'm like, I am not competing. I'm not getting ready. You know what I'm saying? Like, you want to get a selfie? That's cool. I'm not getting ready for the Olympia anymore. But, yeah, I do believe the things that we read, the people who we hang out with, but most importantly, the things that we listen to. Yeah.

1:28:48Adam Schafer:That is huge. So I had a weird experience the other day. I'm in here filming, and I film the Faith Series, the one that you were on. And I had worship music on, but we have trainers with clients in here. And I'm very aware of the clients. And I want to make sure this is their gym, not mine. Even though I'm doing my thing, this is your gym. Lady comes in. She's working out. I got my music on. And I'm like, hey, what do you like to listen to? This is your gym. Oh, I like hip hop. So I put on 90s hip hop, okay? Old gangster rep. And I was working out before. And then I was working out again with the music.

1:29:15Adam Schafer:And I felt prideful. It totally changed how I felt. And I'm like, man, music preaches to you. You got to choose what you want to preach to you. But it changed my vibe. I was like, before I was happy. now I'm like looking in the mirror like I'm the shit and I'm like uh oh that is very interesting what are we doing yeah very very interesting and especially when you when you you know just say it when you give your life to Christ right like you start saying like alright well I'm not going to do the same things I was doing before even though they served a purpose like and look I'm not going to say that you know I'm friends like I'm friendly with some of these major artists like hip hop artists I know some of their DJs I know some of their producers they've sent me beats they've sent me early releases and I'm like can you just send me the instrumentals bro like you know you're being nice no no no you're being nice like you're not trying to like you know crap on them or anything because this is their artistic you know stuff so I'm like hey I just want to hear the beats you know man I can see so and so singing on this I can see this and I text them back and they're like oh yeah man we do a come out next week and I hear it and I'm like man it just don't it don't hit me the same do you ever feel like this is a question for you because of you had such a successful from a worldly sense successful past do you ever feel like Lot's wife where you're like don't turn around don't look back you're gonna turn into a pillar do you ever find yourself in those moments where you're looking back kind of fondly but then like wait a minute I've been here before yeah or I can see my friends or I can see like the younger guys and I'm like literally don't touch that don't touch that hot stove or feel like I mean you're in the world of health and fitness right so you're going to see a lot of women so you have to be very mindful can't have a lustful heart and all this other stuff checking out chicks all day and then you have your friends being like back in the day hey man look at that now you got like competitions like wellness and stuff and every girl's got glutes so you're like okay can I just appreciate someone's hard work without gawking yeah you know i'm saying and not be a creep this and that the answer is yes it is just or if you notice a pattern of how people approach you with certain conversations where you know that it could become very toxic highly gossip driven or even you know that one guy he is the playboy of playboys he's going to talk about women non-stop and i'm just like i'm out yeah i just shut it down i'm like all right man i'm not really here for that you know you got anything else you want to talk about and it's literally just being more bold about it and they're like what's your deal i'm like because i'm married and i'm trying to have kids and i really don't care about that and i've been there done that bro and i'm this way that was behind me i don't need to do that talk about your path to fatherhood right now i mean what's that what's going through like what are you thinking are you like excited nervous i mean that i'm gonna be nervous when she comes home and says hey i'm you know we're doing this you know we're pregnant um but i think at my age now like you know my first marriage i was uh fathering her son at 12 yeah like 11 12 years old um so i know what that's like but to hold your own yeah an infant an infant i don't know what that's like and especially in this day that's something that i've realized now i really need to know who i am and i have to be building up um um i'm having to evolve more as a better human a better man yeah because if i say oh yeah i want to have kids it's like but you have to be a better man to be a better father and a better husband so shouldn't that be your goal phil shouldn't that be your eighth ninth tenth sandow you know i'm saying like you gave majority of your adult years to a sport that still loves you and all this other stuff, but man, having your own, like that would be sick.

1:33:16And, you know, my wife and I've talked about it. If that's not God's will, like we would probably try to, you know, foster a child, you know, like we would be willing to do that because we just have that in us. My wife is so awesome. Like she definitely is, she deserves to be a mom. Like she is so cool. Like, like she just knows how to take care of our house. Like, like I could be traveling, you know, I travel the world, right. And she's at home. Like I could just imagine like what it would be like her, you know, taking care of a child if I'm traveling, you know, I could be doing my own form of ministry, you know, like doing a meet and greets and actually having quality conversations and, you know, promoting sport and all that stuff while she's at home with our kids, you know, helping them be straight.

1:34:00And then when I come home, just, I would love to have a son or a daughter, you know, I know it'd be very difficult at times but to run up and grab your leg oh it's the best it would probably get me teared up a lot but i would be so like i i've always heard this from all my guy friends you guys tell me different it's like you have an extra gear now oh yeah oh yeah so i would love to know what that's like because i know how protective i am over my family and also my friends when you say you die for them and you do anything for them it's like i know there would be another level and i feel like completeness as far as legacy would be fulfilled if i can with the assistance of my wife and having some you know a tribe you know because it does take a village i do know that but it would just be so freaking dope just to look at them and even if they're acting like gremlins at the freaking movie theater you know acting a fool right they will i would probably be like yep that's me yeah i can't even get mad i'm gonna discipline them but i'm like hey come here yeah don't do that you know that's right you know so yeah kids too it sounds like you want more than one well if if i could have two i mean why not you know i was raised as an only child so you know making friends i wouldn't say it was difficult but it was something that i wanted you know i always wanted to be around and i was fortunate like i had you know three friends that had a household of four boys.

1:35:34Adam Schafer:Wow. All three of them. All three of them. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, the Washingtons, the Burlesons, and the Wheelers. So it's like, and one of the Burlesons, they're like - I'd like to see the food. The Burlesons, they played sports. Nathaniel Burleson. Nate Burleson. Yeah, Nate. Oh, wow. That was my childhood friend. I'm not kidding. Yeah, so I grew up with his, you know, around them, went to elementary school with Nate. I didn't know that. I'm a year older than Nate. His brother Kevin and I, we were like, you know, good friends. His brother Kevin actually, I believe he's still there. He's the assistant coach for Detroit, for the Pistons.

1:36:03And, yeah, man, so, I mean, imagine our Sandlot, you know, basketball games, football games, all that stuff. So I would love to have, you know, more than one. I would love to have a boy and a girl. Lord, help me if I have two girls.

1:36:19I just think of that sometimes. I'm like, oh, boy. I got both. It was meant to be, if so. I'm like, it's meant to be, but, man, Lord, help me, man. I got boys in general. into what happened to. I'll be outnumbered.

1:36:31Adam Schafer:Hey, nothing melts, nothing will melt you like a little daughter. I know. Nothing. I got both. I got boys and girls. Love them. And they're different. Yep. But my daughters melt me like. That's what I'm saying. I'm like. Screwed. I'm looking at Sheree right now. I'm like. A little her. All day. And I, you know, she's like, oh my gosh, you're going to have a girl because you were crazy and this, that. I was like. Hey, that's true, by the way. We have friends. We know, bro. I was like, she's got to be some statistical. to come back. I'm like, oops. If she's got both of us, oh my gosh, world better watch out because she has a, man, she, I mean, Sheree's amazing, but just, you know, even aesthetically, I'm like, are they going to have muscles?

1:37:14Are they going to have, you know what I mean? Like, you know, because when I look at baby pictures of myself, I'm like, I had little calves and stuff. Oh, it would. I'm like, man, if I got calves and legs, Sheree's got calves, and she got glutes and I'm like, no, no, no, no. Dad, I want to go play volleyball. No, no. Here's a piano. Just be skinny. No, I don't want some kid coming over being like, hey, man, your daughter looking hot or whatever. I'll be like, oh, my gosh. I'm going to be having to stay swole until I'm like 65. That would be easy, right? You're going to crush. I was an older dad.

1:37:51So being an older dad, you're just a different place. More mature. Way more mature. even the way you talk about ego and everything you've been through imagine raising a kid at 20 oh impossible so the fact that you've been through all of that and then having a kid you'll be patient, you'll be calm you'll have so much more wisdom I think I was like that when I was married the first time and I was dealing with my stepson and he was big into oh man this is dating us all he was big into UFC so he liked GSP because he was a champion of the time so I bought him that DVD set of Rush Fit and he would work out in his room now he's like a freaking black belt in Muay Thai so it's neat to see how that turned out for him but psychologically what these kids go through in middle school and stuff like that and I got to experience that and kind of be that voice of reason the reason why you got in trouble son is because this, this and this The reason why we tell you not to do this is to protect you, not to make you hate us.

1:38:57You know, it's just so those conversations, I think it would be quite easier because, yeah, again, I mean, I was like in my mid 30s at that time. And of course, I have more life to me. I think it would be how do I navigate this world to where the kid knows that no matter what happens, they are always to come to me and the wife. They're always supposed to come to us because we love them. And we cherish them. And they don't have to look to these teachers or whatever first. Because, you know, you start seeing, like, how schools are. They get a hold of your kids. They could be poisoning your kids.

1:39:32And that's another reason why I want to still be jacked. Because I'm going to be walking through that school and be like, hey, this is my kid. You're going to be all right, bro. This is my kid. I don't care what you do with them. You're going to scare the hell out of all the fathers out there. I know where you go get your laundry. I know everything, man.

1:39:50Adam Schafer:Well, if this helps you at all, there's this really big study on adolescents and teenagers, and they were trying to look at what, because they've been depressed and anxious. And this is the first time in history when that generation is the most depressed and anxious, typically as people in middle age. And what they found, the best predictor of good health, like no anxiety, like almost completely nullified the effects of social media and stuff, was were the kids active in church? so that gives you a little bit of so when the kids active in church and was dad active in church and it's like the kids were protected completely from some of those issues well you gotta be able to do that I was raised Southern Baptist originally and my mom's from the deep south so was my dad and that makes a lot of sense I mean there's certain things that have to be in order keep them off tech as long as you can prolong that as long as you can Yeah.

1:40:46Yeah. Well, the beautiful thing is that I got friends like y 'all be like, hey, what y 'all do? Because, you know, it is it is interesting when you go out to dinner and you see everybody with the handhelds. Yeah, it's crazy. It's, you know, from, you know, you go to a mission to start and still see someone on a date with a handheld. it's like can we not just put that down and all just enjoy this little tiny piece of food and just enjoy each other's company that's why i really like traveling overseas um i'll be going to italy i usually go to italy once a year and to go to restaurants you know they eat late they're just laughing yeah culture's different three hours long conversations they're hanging out and I'm like no tech no kid with the headphones on and I get it like some kids you know they have auditory issues maybe a little bit of autism Asperger's and stuff like that totally understand but yeah like shouldn't have to just throw them an iPad they should learn like how to sit there and be quiet you know I mean I didn't have you know my mom didn't I mean we didn't have a game boy and you know, on the phone back then, but my mom wasn't just saying like, here's some Legos, like go, go do this while I'm at, we're at dinner.

1:42:07Like, no, like it was be quiet or just engage in conversation or, or just sit there and eat your food and listen. I think we all should have a, a chance to just be connect.

1:42:21Adam Schafer:You're going to do great, dude. You're going to be great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fun, man. I know that. Well, good luck with that, dude. I'll be praying for you, brother thank you that happens and you're healthy oh man i would love to be able to i just like you know you see and i really appreciate that you guys um you see like how michael hearn is with titan you know yeah and i look at that i was like that would be so dope you know i have like certain plans and and stuff and just again i just want to take what my father did and what my stepdad did and what my moms did and just be like, okay, this is how we can make this really fun and cool.

1:42:59And just the first sporting event. And I'll never forget like going to the first baseball game, you know, like stuff like that. Like I got to see, I got to see Ken Griffey Jr. hit his first home run in the kingdom. Really? Yeah, in the kingdom. That's a cool memory. You know, my stepdad, he used to work for the NBC affiliate and he used to get tickets and we got to see it and he would bring the radio to listen to the play by play. Wow. And that was back in the day, man. Dave Niehaus, man. He used to be the announcer. Man, Belcher, Rice, and Redfield. What a cool memory. Oh, my gosh. I'm a huge Griffey fan.

1:43:34I love Griffey. He's awesome. Best swing ever, in my opinion. That's the Bonds, probably. Him and Bonds probably had the best, I think. Griffey's prettier. Prettier for sure. Bonds has better numbers. I was there for Ricky Henderson's bass-dealing record. Oh, dude, that's insane. It was insane. He's one of my favorites of all time, yeah. What a great era of athletes. We had the best, dude. They would all be, like, people would obviously say that these guys are using. Like, they'd be like, he can't be that fast like a Bo Jackson. Uh-huh, bro. They'd be like, no way. Like, people wouldn't understand.

1:44:05What's crazy about him was how effortless it was. Like, he didn't even care. I know. How do you break a bat like that? Bro, you hear me? I don't know. I don't know. Oh, I strike out. Like, I'm frustrated. Yeah. I've listened to a lot of his interviews and stuff like that, and he just talks about, like, he talks about, too, like, he wouldn't even go in the weight room. He'd go in and then he would sneak out the back and not lift. I mean, he just was a freak of nature. Just freaks, dude. You guys ever wonder where the next one of those is? Right here, dude. Right here. This is, I think, the next freak athlete that we're watching right now.

1:44:39To see him at 21 years old. The way he's handling the ball. The handle is. Oh, the way he's handling. I mean, the last two games he broke back-to-back records. It's just he had 12 blocks in one game in a playoff. He just had 35 points, 12 rebounds, like five blocks. They have no answer for him. No answer. He can do it all. He can shoot. He can defend. He can, I mean, dribble. He can, yeah, and he's humble. He's like a good teammate. Who would you want to see as far as the current guys that are playing hoop really break out as far as like? He's probably on the most pro, him. I like Shay's game I mean what we're seeing right now with Otani too is that's crazy first time we've ever seen a pitcher that hits home runs like that so that's you know you know what I'd like to see is freaking Zion he's a sad story dude he had so much I would love to see this guy really hunker down me too but I think his time has passed I mean if he were to come back and turn it around now would be unbelievable because what is he now in his like fourth year oh no he's further than that he's like oh because he didn't really play yeah he's this is like year five or six now with him and he's just never completes a full season and yeah no i i would have he was so crazy in in college everyone thought he was going to be the next yeah for sure yeah i look at him i'm like oh man why can't these guys just really hire like one of us i know So that's the part that trips me out.

1:46:16I mean, we've had some great athletic coaches on here. But for the most part, a lot of people think that because you're a pro athlete, you have these great coaches. A lot of them are worse. It's like some homie they went to school with. I see it. One certification. And the stuff that they're doing. I think we know all the best coaches. Five of them. Yeah, put them on payroll. and then they don't get to work out with the actual strength and conditioning coach of the team. They'll bring in their own guy because they all want to be their own man. But then again, you can't pay someone$20 plus million and think that he's not going to tell you to go F off.

1:46:56He's going to be like, well, then make me. He's coming or I'm not coming. Yeah, I look at that. I'm like, how are these guys not – we can get a whole other conversation at a time about load management and all this other crap. But I just don't understand. I'll never get it as to why you're being paid that much money and you are having soft tissue injuries nonstop. It's so frustrating. Or you just being a wuss. Well, we see the ones that do get it. And actually, I mean, you talk about people like LeBron, the reason why he's been able to go for as long as he has, he's spending a million dollars a year on recovery alone.

1:47:29And like those guys have those ones that figured Tom Brady. I mean, there's a few that have figured it out and you have got the right people in their corner. But the bulk of them don't. The bulk of them, like you said. I would love to see someone play an 82-game season, though. I know. With the technology that they have today, I don't see why you couldn't. And I think it's selective. And I think part of it is the fact that they're like, well, I can gamify the system. And what are they going to do? You've got to adjust the training once you get there, man. You've got to preserve. Yeah. Long term.

1:48:01I can preserve my career. And they're still willing to pay me$10-plus million if I don't go as hard. Well, that's one of the biggest controversies right now in basketball is the guys taking so many games off, and you have some kid who bought tickets a month in advance to come see his superstar player. I've seen it. Oh, I've seen it too. I've seen it, bro. It's unfortunate what happened. It's effed up, dude. It's like I just think that's the only reason why I always stick to, like, the Jordan era as being, like, the best is because those guys did play in as many games as possible. And, yeah, their careers might have got cut short.

1:48:35but with today's technology and everything why wouldn't you want to play i don't know maybe because i never played in college really you know like i didn't you know like i had hoped but i can only imagine like it would be like bodybuilding like okay you know i got i got i got a little bit of flack for not doing multiple shows throughout the year but i was like well i'm already doing like the arnold and olympia i tell you what if that money at the arnold was you know where it was and the Olympia was I would do both those shows how much is that scale by the way I don't follow where it was 20 years ago where it is now so the Arnold back in the day was like 100 grand plus it was really cool though they had the the check you got a H2 Hummer okay and a custom AP watch oh I didn't know that so like when Jay Cutler won he would get all three which I thought was dope you know you get a car yeah and then eventually people were like I don't want the car I just want the cash.

1:49:33You know, it's like, yeah, but dude, like you go from net to like, they're going to give you cash for like 35 grand. Why do that? Just get the car and drive it and wrap it. Right. You know, do something else with it. Right. The Olympia at the same time, I remember seeing like Ronnie would win the Olympia. They would have like a Cadillac Escalade, you know, you know, SUV, you know, on the Olympia stage, you know, to go win. So it was usually just like a hundred thousand. Then it went, then Arnold stayed at like one 30 for years. Yeah. He got up to 130 K then with no car, no watch just a check the Olympia went up from 100 to 110 to 120 I think it went to like 200 and then by the time I won I think it was like 250 so I wanted to believe I think the first time I won it was either 200 250 then it went to um 300 to 400 and then it stayed there and then most recently Arnold was like I don't want to play this game anymore I honored this whole agreement because of Joe and Ben to keep the Arnold prize money below the Olympia.

1:50:35And then he said, screw it. I'm just going to do what I want. I'll break the rules. I'm going to do, I think he said he was going to do $500 ,000 and that's when the Olympia was like, well, we'll do$600 ,000. Then Arnold's like, do you know who I am? $750 ,000. Wow. I didn't realize it shot up that high. Dude, the Arnold this year was$750 ,000. Andrew Jack won that. And then he went over to the Arnold UK and picked up another 250. So he made a million in a month. Wow. So imagine Ronnie Coleman. Basically, all the sandals that he won was probably still less than what someone won in one month. Wow.

1:51:15So it's changed dramatically. That's crazy. I'm happy that the athletes had the opportunity. No, totally. Exactly. But I think now it's like, you know, you got that. I didn't know it got that much. I think the Pittsburgh Pro is like$100 ,000. I didn't know that. Pittsburgh Pro is now, yeah,$100 ,000. So you got multiple shows in six figures. And I think if they would have had to, I don't know if they're having a Dubai pro this year, but I believe that's a hundred grand as well. So, I mean, man, like I see some guys that I even want to leave the house to go compete. And then they're like, well, I'm not going to win.

1:51:44So I'm looking at, I'm like, dude, second place still, you know, like Brandon Curry went to the Arnold UK. I think he was, he, he was like fifth or sixth at the Arnold Ohio picked up second place, still walked out with over a hundred grand. Yeah. Wow. I'm like at his age in this sport, He's still able to place high, walk away with some good cash prize. So I think I'm assuming the Olympians are going to probably go up in prize money too because it's going to be a game now. Eventually it'll hit a million, I think. Wow. What a turn on that. Big time. Yeah. I mean, and that's just for the open division.

1:52:22The other categories, I mean, the prize money does go up, but not as significant. Did you keep post all this? Did you keep a lot of sponsors? Do you still get good revenue from that? Are you done with a lot of sponsorships? A lot of the sponsorships are done. They're much different. Yeah. You know, because before, you know, I was doing like the supplement stuff. Yeah. Now I'm doing my own brand that'll be launching this summer. Like we had like a rebrand. So I'll be doing that. And, you know, I didn't have a clothing sponsor when I was getting ready for Olympias back then. But now I do. I'm with Young LA.

1:52:52Oh, cool. I was previously with Gymshark. Now I'm with Young LA. I've been with them since the beginning of this year. um and then just the this partnership deals are obviously different nowadays you know it's just it's some of it's data driven some of it's legacy driven some of it's a little bit of both yeah um you know we definitely didn't have you know like telehealth back then yeah you know so there's the different component you know energy drink campaigns weren't going around back then um those are things that i'm the thing for me is like i always am very particular as to who i want to partner with um because of what i built as a rep you know reputation you know in my legacy within the sport of bodybuilding you don't just just because someone is willing to pay you doesn't mean that it's good money long term and some of the stuff that you would want to do maybe that only should be short term because maybe it's just like a cool ad campaign you know like it could just be something fun whereas other ones you think well this should be for at least two years but then some companies are like well we only want like six months to 12 months because they're like again they're looking at data-driven things.

1:53:56So sometimes I just take myself out the equation and say, how about I just not do it at all and just focus on other things. Like I do public speaking. You know, I work with different sports teams, both, you know, amateur and non-professional right now. But I always wanted to say college is professional, but it pretty much is. Yeah, so I guess I work with professionals, you know, so I've done that. So I really do like working with, you know, high school and some collegiate sports programs because of the NIL deals. Yeah. Because that's a different layer, you know, of pressure. You've got a 17-year-old, 18-year-old kid being told that they're all world and they're going to get all world money.

1:54:37But they're kids. But they're kids and their parents are really driving those decisions. Yeah. And if the kid isn't getting a certain amount of playing time or if the kid is playing well enough to go to a different school, they're going to hit that portal. It's not because of what the kid wants to do. It's because of what the parents want them to do. Because now imagine the mom, the dad, if they're together, if they're not together, the mom may say or the dad may say, you know, you know, you got to take after your younger brothers and sisters, you know, you know, this is generational wealth. Like this will be this is why we, you know, took each of those AAU tournaments and stuff like that.

1:55:09You don't think these parents are talking to the kids? Of course. They are ruthless. Have you have you heard of some of these crazy portal stories of like a whole team getting like wiped out in summer and stuff like that? Insane. Yep. You got your hands on so many things. What's most consistent revenue for you and what's your favorite to do? My favorite is probably coaching. And I do a lot of it privately. I get DMs. People say, hey, would you like to be a keynote speaker here or there? And then after I do that, people will want to hire me to do other things. That's always been something that I enjoy because it doesn't have to be heavily broadcasted, broadcast it but it could be a lot more intimate i plan on doing more of that actually i'm doing a launching a fitness app here pretty soon so that'll enable more people to get um reps with me yeah you know because a lot of people have hit me up and say like hey how do you deal with performance anxiety how do you go from being amateur to pro and how do you go from pro to being a good one and how do you even deal with like contracts and stuff within this crazy sport A lot of them don't even know the pure structure of filing LLCs and gaining trademarks.

1:56:21Having your own IP is a huge thing that a lot of people in our industry do not have. They'll say, oh, well, I got a website or I've got a blue checkmark. It's like, dude, you don't even own your freaking name. And you don't even have a war fund just in case someone wants to misrepresent it. So I really like to focus on those things because those things are universal. But, yeah, that and some other things I'll be able to launch here pretty soon. So that's it for right now. But, yeah, to be continued. Yeah.

1:56:54Adam Schafer:All right. Exciting. Yeah. Good stuff, man. Awesome conversation again, bro. Oh, thank you, guys. Appreciate you coming on, man. Oh, of course. Anytime, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I saw you text, I was like, I was about to screw with you and be like, nah, man, I didn't have fun last time. Too busy. Adam didn't show up, you know. Yeah, you really ruined it. Yeah, he was like such a jerk, man. He canceled last minute. No, no, that was great. I hope I can do it again, man. We will. I tell you what, that's why I'm curious about the business stuff. So when you have a big launch, we'd love to have you on and help kick it off, dude.

1:57:26I appreciate it. Of course. I appreciate it. You got my number, dude. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for coming on, man. Awesome. And I'll for sure be sending you guys some stuff. All right. That's for sure. All right.

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