2956: Is It Normal to Feel Hungry When Dieting | Why Hunger Is Actually a Good Sign

11:54Justin Andrews:That's the best strategy you can really focus on. That's right. Really incorporating as many of those satiating type foods while you're going through this process.

12:02Sal Di Stefano:Well, this is why I don't like them. There's a movement happening right now. You called this years ago on the podcast that there would be this anti high protein movement. And we're here now, right? Like we've worked so hard to get people to accept that they need to eat more protein, that it's so beneficial for them for the strategy of losing body fat and building muscle. It's like it's a must, right? And we worked so hard to get there. Finally, it's become popular or more popular than it was a decade ago. And then, of course, what comes out now is the pushback of people. And I just think that's a terrible message because it was so difficult to get clients to eat enough.

12:37Sal Di Stefano:and so many, dare I say, magical things happen for you when you hit a high-protein diet. You hang on to more muscle. You build more muscle. You eat less calories. It's just a great strategy for 95 % of people, unless you're that 5 % or less that have digestibility issues with a high-protein diet. The other 95 % of the population would greatly benefit from eating a higher-protein diet. 100%.

13:06Adam Schafer:And here's the next one. And this is just an oversimplification. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie, right? If it's 10 calories here, it's 10 calories there. It's all the same. Now I get it from a, you know, how much energy your body requires to burn the calorie. Although even there, there's some differences. But here's the deal. Different types of calories affect your body differently. They make you feel different. That's a big deal, everybody. We start to negate how food makes us feel when we just look at food as proteins, fats, carbs, and calories. We know this. Like heavily processed foods make you want to eat more.

13:44Adam Schafer:So you could eat a 2 ,000-calorie diet that's whole natural foods with a macro profile that's identical to a heavily processed food diet that's 2 ,000 calories. So both 2 ,000 calories, both exactly the same amount of protein, fats, and carbs, but the heavily processed food version will make you feel less satisfied and will change how your body or your brain perceives palatability. Because when something's hyperpalatable, like really enjoyable, your brain starts to adjust how it perceives palatability. This is why if you eat lots of strawberry-flavored candy, real strawberries don't taste so good all of a sudden.

14:24Adam Schafer:and so a calorie isn't just a calorie from an energy perspective sure but that's not how humans

14:30Sal Di Stefano:work and it really oversimplifies things i feel like so much of this tip harkens back to early mind pump days yeah yeah i remember when we made those shirts uh the iifym sucks yeah uh and i remember that got a bunch of heat in fact this was what originally introduced us to lane norton how we became friends later on uh was it was our pushback to that big movement and listen uh if If you're a competitor or you're a person that weighs, measures every single calorie that you eat, this, I guess, isn't that big of a deal because you're neurotic about your food and you know exactly how many calories you eat every single day.

15:07Sal Di Stefano:You're going to stick to it and that's it. The difference between a protein rice crispy treat that's 250 calories is no different than you choosing a whole food 250 calories because you're going to stick to that. That is a very small percentage of the population. the rest of the people loosely track their calories or don't track their calories whatsoever. And so behavior plays a huge role in their success on eating well or eating good or eating under their calories. If fat loss is the goal. And so behavior makes a big difference on whether they're successful at that or not. And foods that are hyper palatable will make you eat more, will make you want to eat more.

15:43Sal Di Stefano:And unless you are tracking every single calorie that goes in, then it does,

15:47Adam Schafer:it does matter. 100%. Look, you could have, I was thinking about this the other day because I remember when Chris Kresser made this example. And so I thought about this myself. If I had a bowl, this is me personally. A lot of people are like this, but this is me personally. If there was a bowl of potato chips just out in my house and I had to walk by it, 100 % I would eat from that bowl of potato chips. I can't resist it. They're so palatable, especially for me. It's a food that I just can't stop eating. Now, if there was a bowl of boiled potatoes sitting on my kitchen table, I could walk by that thing.

16:21Adam Schafer:No problem. Yeah. And never grab a boiled potato to take a bite out of it. Uh, so that, that's the difference, uh, right there. Uh, and it's really important to pay attention, especially if you're a normal, healthy person and not a fanatical bodybuilder or competitor. Uh, here's the next one, uh, carbs or fats make you fat. So this one's one of my favorites because, you know, we grew up in the, we were young in the eighties, grew up in the nineties, early two thousands, we were training people. And there was this, this flip that happened sometime in the nineties. So eighties started in the seventies, but eighties and nineties fat was the enemy.

16:58Adam Schafer:Everything was low fat. So if you were a kid in the early nineties and you went to the grocery store, every snack food or whatever tried to say low fat on the box because we were so afraid of eating fat. There was this message that was out that was, hey, it's fat. It's dietary fat that's causing heart disease. This explosion in heart attacks has to do with fat. So everything has to be low fat. And so snack foods and stuff like that went that direction. Obesity continued to climb. At some point in the nineties, I don't remember exactly when, there was the Atkins diet came out. So it's a book that came out that said, actually everybody, it's not fat that's making people fat, it's carbs.

17:37Adam Schafer:So eat as much fat as you can or you want and just avoid carbs completely. Now, because it was so opposite from the previous message and because when you cut out an entire macronutrient, your calories naturally drop. So if you just avoid carbs and you normally eat carbs, you'll probably have a lower calorie diet. People were losing weight and they were like, oh my God, we've been lied to. It's the carbs. Plus, if you looked at the data, we were going low fat for so long, obesity is still climbing. But what goes up when you cut fat tends to be carbs because snack food companies are like, we got to make this taste good somehow.

18:09Adam Schafer:We're taking out the fat. Let's add more sugar. And so they were like pointing the finger and then it was carbs, carbs, or it make you fat. And now we know, and we know this back then too, it's, it's either or both more extra calories make you fat. That's it. And the difference between the two. Now there is a difference that I do want to point out. Fat is essential. So you can't go zero fat, you'll die. Even if calories are 10 ,000 a day, you'll die if you don't have enough fat. So fats are essential. But if you're eating enough fats, I'll tell you what, I've trained a lot of people. Some people feel better, lower fat.

18:44Adam Schafer:Some people feel better, lower carb. Doesn't make a big difference. Well, fat loss doesn't make a difference. And we have studies now that support this.

18:50Justin Andrews:Sometimes I feel like our information is just on the spinning wheel. And then like the marketers just throw a dart at it. And then this is what we're going to focus on as like, you know, the targeted, you know, we're going to make this one the evil macronutrient to focus on right now. But yeah, it's, and really the only kind of truth behind, you know, with the whole fat scare thing was just that it's a little bit higher calorie. So you have to be a little more considerate of like, you know, if I'm like just eating and consuming nuts, like, like mindlessly, you know, it's going to add up in your overall calorie amount, but it's still just about the calories.

19:27And to your point, fat is essential.

19:29Justin Andrews:So fat is something we do need to incorporate. We just have to manage it appropriately.

19:32Sal Di Stefano:Well, I think it's important that we point out on both those diet trends that probably took over a good decade. Oh, yeah. Each of them. Or more. Yeah, or more. Why so many people saw success with each of them? So if it's so bad and it's not true and it doesn't work, then why did all of us have a friend or somebody who did the Atkins and saw tremendous results? results or my friend in the 90s who went no fat got shredded like there's a there's there's aside from like you you pointed out like if you just subtract an entire macro you're going to subtract calories right but there's there's specific things in each of those that i think to justin's point uh high fat foods are gonna are very palatable and then also have lots of calories so that's what right so i think it's important to point out why each of those were probably successful for some people and then where the real answer lies.

20:27Adam Schafer:Salt, sugar, and fat are the three main ingredients in palatability. Yeah. Now there's - Detriative goodness. Now there's lots of things, you know, can contribute to palatability like the crunch, the mouth feel. We use lots of chemicals now and color actually adds palatability. I remember when Haydn's ketchup came out with black ketchup and nobody bought it. Yeah. It was the same thing, by the way. It tasted the same. Well, dude, it's just going to signal like it's rancid. I don't understand why they didn't think of that. That's right. So palatability is pretty complex, but when, when food companies were like, Oh, we got to avoid fat.

21:00Adam Schafer:What can we increase to make something palatable? Well, they're going to bump salt and they're going to bump sugar. By the way, find a food that is no sugar, no carbs, no fat. You're going to get boiled chicken. Yeah, exactly. A hundred percent. So, uh, so that's, uh, that's the thing to pay attention to is that, you know, excess calories make you fat. And in my experience, some people just do better lower carb. Some people just do better lower fat. Of course, you got to hit enough fat to hit your essential fat intake. And with my clients, it was a pretty decent split. I'd say more clients did better lower carb, but I had some clients that when I kept their carbs too low, they just felt terrible.

21:38Adam Schafer:So we bumped them, dropped fat a little bit, and they felt amazing. Lastly, this one goes to the fitness industry. The message that food is just fuel. It's just fuel. It's just energy. It's just macros. It's just calories. It's just nutrients. This is such a lie. It's such a terrible lie because we all know this isn't true. When have we ever treated food like it's just fuel? That's just not the case. We use food to celebrate. We're not robots. To connect. There's different cultures of food. I mean, my family's Italian. Italian food is very,

22:14Sal Di Stefano:I mean, maybe when it was so scarce that everybody was dying of starvation. I mean, that's -

22:20Adam Schafer:Then it's fuel. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Sure.

22:22Sal Di Stefano:You'll eat bugs. You'll eat whatever. You'll eat whatever. You'll eat anything you get your hands on.

22:25Adam Schafer:Yeah, but even then, I mean, you celebrate it. You know, big hunt. Everybody gets together. Yeah. You know, so food is way more than just fuel. And when you, if you adopt this and really live this way, like really live this way, and people, you know, there's definitely fitness fanatics that are dysfunctional in this direction. This is called orthorexia. Yeah. This is actually a dysfunctional way of eating. So food isn't just fuel, everybody. There is real value to palatability and enjoyment. It's an actual value. So I'm not saying you should always seek out enjoying your food and palatability.

22:57Adam Schafer:But you better believe if I'm going out with my friends and we don't hang out except for once a month, I'm not going to go out and just calculate the macros. I'm going to be like, dude, let's go have a burger. Let's hang out together. Or I'm going over to your house and your wife's cooking something. I mean, like, I'm not going to sit there and count the macros. I'm like, let's enjoy this meal together.

23:15Justin Andrews:There's still work to be done, I feel like, in the performance athletic world with this. And, you know, mainly because they're burning so many calories that it's kind of like they feel like none of it's really going to affect them in a negative way. Yeah, because they're just going to consume it and burn it right away. When, in fact, you know, later on, all the gut problems and everything else that, you know, I see and I've seen from training a lot of athletes. It's like, if we can consider that, how much better you would perform if you, you know, really get your sources and quality.

23:45Adam Schafer:Speaking to athletes, this just points to the psychological factor. It's so important. Like you could have an athlete that since they were in high school, let's say they're now a pro. But since they were in high school, their pregame meal was a stack of pancakes with, you know, syrup. And every time they had it, they just had a great game. So it just became a ritual.

24:02Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

24:03Adam Schafer:Now they're a pro and some pro, you know, some high level nutritionist is like, actually, that's not the best pre game meal. I'm going to have you eat this other thing. Psychologically, that might actually be detrimental to the athlete. The athlete has created this association. No, totally. Like we're in the same sock.

24:20Sal Di Stefano:What coach or trainer did we originally talk to about that? I forget who that who we had on the show. We discussed that because I believe this was right. This was right when DK Metcalf's diet. Real popular, right? Jacked, shredded. yeah one of the yeah stud receiver just dominating the game of that year i mean it was one of the best years he had and uh they did a whole thing on his diet and it was just like basically candy like 90 candy and then everyone's just like and then of course it obviously went viral and everybody and every coach and trainer picking it apart being like oh my god this is but then we we had somebody i wish i remember who it was on the show i think i remember i don't remember who it was i I don't either.

24:59Sal Di Stefano:We discussed this, though. We talked about it. And I think he made that point. It's just that there comes a point with an athlete at that high of a level that taking one of their rituals, whether you think it's not the most ideal way for them to get ready for a game, is more detrimental than it is positive.

25:15Adam Schafer:Exactly.

25:15Sal Di Stefano:They have created too much around that for so long that removing that for an incremental improvement, let's say, in the food choice or whatever like that. That guy is burning so many calories. Yes, Skittles are not the ideal source of carbohydrate, right? Obviously. But when you're operating -

25:35Adam Schafer:But if he believes it is, there's a lot there, dude. You know, you got to be careful. Yeah, I know.

25:39Sal Di Stefano:Take it away as Skittles. Yeah, I know. 100%. 100%. Hilarious.

25:43Adam Schafer:Anyway, I was having fun. Yesterday, I posted on Instagram because, like I said, Adam and I are - Oh, coming for me. Yeah, we just happened to be both trying to get leaner or whatever. and when we first started the podcast, Adam and I used to like mess with each other all the time for, you know, goals, right? Who could get leaner, whatever. Now, of course, keep in mind, he's a pro physique competitor. I already know this, but it's always fun to, you know, to tease or whatever. So we're both doing this thing. And so I'm like, dude, we should schedule like a DEXA and like make it a thing. It'll be fun.

26:14Adam Schafer:Talk crap to each other. So I did a post where I was kind of making fun, talking crap to Adam. People were reposting. Oh, I got all kinds of DMs.

26:21Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, dude. People love it, man. I got all kinds of DMs for sure. I don't know about me having the advantage on this. Oh, come on, dude. I mean, by advantage, you mean I'm better at this than you. I have an advantage. But I mean, I think going into this, your physique was a lot better than I was already. So I think you had a lot more muscle.

26:39Adam Schafer:You got muscle memory done.

26:41Sal Di Stefano:I don't know about that being an advantage. I'm like, oh, man, I don't know what I signed up for because I'm pretty sure you were hovering around. I don't know where I was at. low low maybe 11 at the highest maybe to teens we'll see dude like low singles when i've done

26:54Adam Schafer:body fat tests sometimes i look leaner than i than i am i haven't done one a long time so

26:58Sal Di Stefano:and i've never done dex yeah i had been intentionally staying away from it to not mess with my own head and discourage myself because i know better like i know i'm locked in and um i feel good because i feel relative to where i've been in a long time but i also know that there's certain signals in my physique that I know of like, okay, when I'm approaching certain numbers and there's certain things that I haven't seen yet or noticed. And so I'm like, oh, last thing I want to do is go get that DEXA scan and then it give me a number. And then, and really what, I mean, cause let's pretend I came from 19%.

27:32Sal Di Stefano:I don't think I was 19%, but let's just pretend I did. And I got all the way down to 12. That's great. That's incredible. But if I go DEXA and I get a 12, I'm going to be pissed. I thought I'm way, I felt better than that. you know what i'm saying is which could that just shows you the which is so ridiculous right and i understand how ridiculous that is but that's the downfall of not doing a dexa first so i can see that because then that would be encouraging it's like oh man i knocked out seven percent well i'll

27:58Adam Schafer:let you in on a peptide that i think uh would be better because on the video i i said i'll take my advantage is i'll take all the peptides so i'm taking a peptide it's oral actually it's capsule okay it's called five amino five amino one mq okay so uh i got it from our partners at nphormones.com have you taken that one i haven't oh yeah okay so what it does is it it blocks an enzyme that degrades nad in yourself so you're not everybody's like nad gives you more energy yeah so instead of taking more nad you can actually increase circulating levels by blocking this enzyme this is the first time i've ever taken an nad type uh product not the first time i felt energy before, but I really feel a lot of energy from it.

28:39Adam Schafer:Really? And it's also good for fat loss. That's not why I was taking it originally. I had no idea that it would have any fat loss benefits, but apparently it takes white fat and it makes it more like brown fat. So more thermogenic.

28:51Sal Di Stefano:So if there's ever a time that I love to experiment with things like this, it's right now. You know me, I'm so skeptical when it comes to peptides, supplements, all the things, but when I'm dialed in and I'm tracking everything, um, where I have metrics that I can go like, oh that's improving x y and z um but i can feel it i know i know but you're like mr i can feel everything so that's not that's not impressive to me like yes you do hey give my back your justice oh yeah yeah bro you were like hey you like to say well you're you're hot or cold yeah yeah like there's no in between that's what i'm saying that's all i'm saying yeah i mean you will definitely say this doesn't work if it doesn't work i'm not saying you think everything works but you're definitely the guy like i feel it you know i'm saying like you where i'm like maybe i feel it maybe i notice it let me check the data let me get off of it let me try it again and then i'll be more like that yeah but you uh you bringing that up and then uh me talking about tracking i wanted to share something on the podcast that i that i that hopefully is useful um as i'm back in on my on my game right now uh and part of that is we know that i of all of us i'm i probably obsess over the tracking stuff more than everybody i love that stuff and man uh And boy, I wish there's never been a company that we've talked about on this podcast that we're not currently partners with that I want to be partners with that we're not as much as I want to work with Aura.

30:10Sal Di Stefano:I wish they're whoever it is over there that is difficult to work with or the loop or the subway to jump through. Yeah, it's a slight jab. So we'll probably never end up working with them. But the technology is amazing. And I did some digging on it this weekend. And actually, the science they use for their algorithms to get it is far superior than any other tracker that's out there. Yeah, they're the leaders by far, which explains why they've gotten so expensive and stuff too. But here's a new one for me that I just started to correlate. So I've always tracked sleep and paid attention to steps and movement like that.

30:45Sal Di Stefano:So the Oura Ring has not only does it have my sleep score every single day, but it also has a readiness score. Now, there tends to be a pretty close connection to when I get good nights of sleep, I have a much higher readiness score. Makes sense. Right. And logical, right? And so I never really cared about paying attention to the readiness score. I'm like, if I feel good, I'm going to go. I'm going to do whatever. I'm really watching my sleep because I have connected the dots on like two nights of bad sleep, like risk of injury, terrible workout, terrible results. Readiness score is low. Yeah, of course.

31:18Sal Di Stefano:but what I've noticed is that so we just did this we just had it last Friday we did a pickleball tournament with the team I had this really two and a half hour long deep tissue massage it was an intense massage I lifted in the morning and then we went and played pickleball for two and a half hours or what about that too I was wrecked I mean my body

31:37Adam Schafer:you guys lied to me you guys said pickleball is easy and you barely have to move well it was a tournament dog you only tried to convince you to play it was competitive you know what's hey it's different

31:47Sal Di Stefano:we were kind of playing around having fun but we were they gave us it's not 10 there was a medal bro there was a medal there was a medal and we stood on a podium

31:54Adam Schafer:Adam drove home when we got to town he walked out of the car with a medal on he was wearing it on the way home I swear to God I walked away with nothing

32:04Sal Di Stefano:so yes of course like my competitive spirit comes out forget the pain forget that I haven't been training or doing anything like this let's go right so yeah absolutely just roasted me and I mean my feet if you saw me walking over the weekend you would think i was walking on glass because my feet were so because the massage therapist she she wrecked my feet and then i go play you played yes on top of that so anyways point of bringing this up is uh i got incredible sleep i was exhausted you know two nights in a row good sleep but my readiness was really really low still because of the hard game and everything yeah and so and and and also one of the things that the Aura's tracking is it like it's monitoring like your your average heart rate throughout the entire day and so it's basically telling me that even though I got a good night's rest I still need more rest now why do I bring this up and what what what else have I connected to this that I find interesting well what I found really interesting and fascinating and I've talked about this before with you guys on the show about um one of the mind games in the fat loss staying on par with to what you've been talking about today, is water fluctuation.

33:11Adam Schafer:Yeah.

33:12Sal Di Stefano:I know where you're going. And my body sometimes, when I was peak competing, not right now, but peak, I was swinging nine pounds of water a night. Right now, I probably swing five to seven. But peak was like nine pounds of water weight. And sometimes what would happen is my body would hang on to, of those nine pounds, it wouldn't lose the full nine pounds for the night. It would hang on to four of it. you know and i only lose five so i wake up four pounds heavier than what i should have been like from the day before or what about that which could somebody who gets on a scale who's dieting who's training who's dialed in thinks they're doing great this is when people over correct get on a scale and go oh my god i'm four pounds heavier you freak out and you you over correct now i've attributed this to many things like uh i know when i have a higher carb day uh carbs pair with water.

34:05Sal Di Stefano:They hold more water in the muscle. And so a lot of times a higher carb day will cause this to happen. A higher sodium day will cause it. The reverse is true. A low sodium day, low carb day will pull out some of the water. And so that could really play with the scale a lot. What I noticed about my readiness score is that my body feels like it's stressed and it needs rest. The aura ring's telling me that. So I've been more dialed than I've ever been in a long time in the last few weeks and i've also been i've had great days that like you know when you're hitting your days of eating and steps and everything's i'm lined up and i'm holding like uh an extra four pounds

34:45Adam Schafer:just from training too much training yes right yeah and now in the past this is why i'll do that

34:50Sal Di Stefano:this is why i was i was really i was texting corinne uh last night just like hey remind me i want to sit down and talk to you about some things that just on my mind because i'm going through this right now that can really mess with your head and and especially the competitive person who doesn't like to skip their workouts because it took everything in me not to work out. I'm in a rhythm right now. Like I want to go lift, but I can feel my body overstressed. I'm getting the signal from the aura ring that it needs to rest. I see the weight on the scale holding water, which is probably telling me that my body's overstressed, but inside of me feeling like I can't miss my workout.

35:24Sal Di Stefano:I need to work out. So the discipline to not work out in that situation. Or work out light or do something super recuperative. Right. And so all this to be said, to help people when they know they've been eating well, they know they've been training, so much can be going on outside of that that can make the difference. And let me tell you, it looks different on me too. Like I looked better five days ago, but yet I've had five days of beautiful diet, training, and extra activity. So it's like I'm not burning less. I've burned more calories and probably burned more body fat in the last five days than I did the previous week and been more perfect.

36:08Sal Di Stefano:Yet my weight is four pounds higher. Now, what I know is that give it a couple more nights of good rest, consistency, and diet, and staying the course.

36:19Adam Schafer:This is why it's so important to have a coach because so many people experience stuff like that and overcorrect or freak out. Whereas a good coach knows this and can say, hey, hang tight.

36:28Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, hold the line. That's right. Hold the line. Don't change anything. Don't cut more calories. Don't increase a bunch of more activity because you think you need to burn more. Stay the core. And I know this, and I know what will happen. Tomorrow or the next day, I'll wake up the leanest I've looked in two weeks. Yeah. But listen, I'm talking, it's already been four or five days. So I'm telling you, I looked better five days ago. And yet, it might take till tomorrow or the next day. A whole week. A whole week of perfect eating, perfect training, all the things. That's why you got to trust the process.

36:59Sal Di Stefano:And man, I tell you, being back in it right now, it just reminds me of the mind-eff for so many people when they're going through this and why it is so difficult to do this alone without somebody to kind of coach you through that and teach you that what you're feeling, what you're noticing is totally normal. Now, what's hard as a coach is - A good coach would actually say this.

37:21Adam Schafer:Hey, you had a really hard game. You're kind of feeling burnt and fried. Yeah, you're probably going to hold some extra water weight. So when you weigh yourself tomorrow, don't be surprised if you're a few pounds heavier. And that would be so powerful. Oh, yeah.

37:37Sal Di Stefano:Also, I can't imagine. So this is why I want to talk to Corinne, because I haven't asked her about this, to know if she does this to herself or not. I know that it's hard not to. but the temptation to want to push through and still push the body right now and just keep that state of stress and inflammation up and which would also what you should do the opposite of what i what i need to do and what that will do was will continue the body to be inflamed looking puffy and holding water that's right yet even though the diet is all all perfect and or overcorrect and cut calories.

38:16Adam Schafer:And by the way, women tend to have larger swings. Far more sensitive.

38:22Sal Di Stefano:You throw in menstrual cycle in that and other hormones, like estrogen. They hold more water than men. Estrogen holds more. You throw in estrogen, you throw in menstrual cycle. Yeah. And then, heaven forbid, you have kids and responsibilities and a bunch of other stuff, stress. 100%. That all play a factor in this. And so, man, yeah, a lot of this game is the ability to know you're doing the right thing, to trust the process, to not overcorrect the momentary or daily, sometimes weekly swings in directions that you feel aren't good. If you know you're eating well, you know you're doing the right things, just do that.

39:00Sal Di Stefano:And then sometimes the best thing is to let that body recover fully. And so I thought it was really cool to see this score and kind of connect that. Because in the past, I would have just went off asleep and been like, I'm good to roll. But it's like, oh, it's interesting that my body's still probably inflamed. And I can feel it. So it's obvious.

39:18Adam Schafer:No, that's good. That's good for people to hear. Because overcorrecting is one of the biggest, most damaging mistakes that people make. Change of subject. I was on social, and I saw this clip come up from Woodstock 99. Do you guys remember that? Of course I remember that. Yeah. So for people who aren't familiar. It was the rock and roll one that was so sick. The original Woodstock was, what was that year, Doug? The original Woodstock. Do you know it was a 67? 68 or something. 68, okay. This is Lincoln Park, Limp Bizkit. So people need to know this because the story of them trying to remake Woodstock is one of the greatest failures in all of music history.

39:56Adam Schafer:So 1969 was the original Woodstock. And it was crazy because they lost control of it. People were coming in from all over the place. And it was just, it's like people talked about it forever because it was like so peaceful. People helped organize. People had the greatest experience. It was peace, love, the whole deal, right? That's what Woodstock was all about. So in 99, they're like, we're going to recreate Woodstock. Here's what happened in 99. It turned into the opposite. It became destruction, violence. It was horrible. And I just saw a clip of when it all turned. You guys know the moment in What's Dog 99 when it turned?

40:36Justin Andrews:Well, yeah, when they started ripping off parts of the structure.

40:40Sal Di Stefano:What artist was that? Limp Bizkit. It was Limp Bizkit. It was Limp Bizkit.

40:44Justin Andrews:This is what they've gotten heat for forever. Yeah, yeah.

40:46Sal Di Stefano:What was the song that they were - I watched them get booed off stage. I don't know if it was Break Stuff. It was -

40:51Adam Schafer:Was it Break Stuff? No. I think it was. Yes, it was. Was it? It was? It was Break Stuff. So as they're singing this, and you know how he says, like, you know, whatever, Break Stuff. The whole crowd starts going nuts, and then they start tearing things off the stage.

41:06Justin Andrews:I mean, there was a lot leading into that, which, you know, if you watch the documentary, they didn't have, like, adequate porta-potties and showers. There was just a lot of, like, underlying stress. And two, what they booked with the bands, they booked those bands because that was the most popular bands at the time.

41:25Adam Schafer:Yeah, the 90s was not the 60s. The 90s was different. You know, there's a different, like, energy.

41:29Justin Andrews:There's a different vibe. like so to to brand it and kind of wrap it under that same umbrella was a mistake it just was a

41:37Sal Di Stefano:different thing so they they it was uh they anticipated 50 000 people and a half a million

41:43Adam Schafer:showed up oh my god and one stock 99 or 69 wow so 60 so here's the deal what you just said justin 69 was like that they didn't have enough bathrooms they didn't have enough whatever

41:52Sal Di Stefano:people poured in oh you got it says two so i got two different numbers i just saw dub went by it It was like 250 ,000, 220 ,000. Let's see. So they say 220 ,000. I heard it was a half a million.

42:01Adam Schafer:Well, here's the thing. My point is that in 69 - It was hot. It was super hot. In 69, they also were not ready for what happened. So many people showed up, but it was so peaceful. I think the difference is the decade. The culture. Oh, for sure. Music in the 90s was gangster rap, angry rock. It was just pissed off. Yeah, it was a lot of angst. And it just, the whole vibe was - Because I watched a video of the moment when the tide turned. And it was bro. That would have been scary.

42:28Justin Andrews:It wasn't just Limp Bizkit. I feel like they got like an unwarranted hate for that because it was like they're just doing what they did the whole time. That's true. And everybody loved it. They were going crazy and ripping. And like, yes, it led to like basically a freaking riot, you know, a bunch of like assholes being assholes and like, you know, horrible things. But, you know, as far as what was expected, I mean, they pretty much delivered.

42:56Sal Di Stefano:I was at a Limp Bizkit and Metallica concert shortly after that. Did you really? Yeah. People booing them. And people booed Fred Durst off a stage. They're throwing stuff on stage and booing them off stage. You know what this points to me?

43:08Justin Andrews:Biggest comeback ever. They're huge right now.

43:10Adam Schafer:They're huge now. Yeah. So as I'm watching this, it just makes me think, like, how big of an impact music can have on culture. Yeah. And of course, people are going to use music. whatever people you want to think but let's say people in power will use music to move culture in a particular direction as a psyop 100 % music does this it does you can play a certain kind of music to a crowd and people are going to work together and organize and love each other or you can change the music all together and cause a riot yeah break your effing face is probably not the best

43:48Sal Di Stefano:peace loving type of concert it doesn't work with like the dove yeah nah nah that ain't it that ain't it I know anyway it's crazy

43:58Adam Schafer:hey so I was on X so this is kind of it's kind of a cool moment for me because I commented actually reposted and commented on a post by here I'll pull it up for you guys by Brad what's his last name Schoenfeld oh Schoenfeld which by the way love him great researcher the best research in strength training this guy conducts he breaks it down it's phenomenal but I had to repost and add my little two cents and then he commented underneath and we went back and forth a little bit, which was really cool because I have tons of respect for him. But there was a systematic review and meta analysis that was comparing adaptations from free weights to machines.

44:40Adam Schafer:So what's the difference between the two? Now they're looking at hypertrophy, muscle growth. And in these studies -

44:46Sal Di Stefano:I already know where this goes.

44:47Adam Schafer:They're similar. There's really no difference between free weights and machines when it comes to building muscle. Now, here's what I put. So I reposted it.

44:55Sal Di Stefano:Stim that out for a year.

44:56Adam Schafer:Well, here's what I did. I reposted it. This is what I said. I said, they both build similar amounts of muscle, but one of them requires more skill and results and more carryover to everyday life. So in other words, you might as well pick the one that has better overall results. Now, he commented underneath, and he's like, basically, he's like, I don't think it makes an appreciable difference to an individual's activities or daily life, free weights or machines. And I'm like, yeah, it does. I said, if you stop practicing squatting, you'll stop losing the skill. I don't care how strong your legs are when you leg press and leg extension.

45:28Adam Schafer:You'll actually start to lose the ability to squat with good technique because it's a skill. And so we went back and forth, and he's citing data. I'm like, there's no study that lasts years. If you train people for four months and you compared machines to free weights, you're not going to see a big difference in their lifestyle. But if you do it for four years or 40 years, you'll see a big difference. and it has to do with the skill. Like it's not just about building muscle. We tend to do this in the fitness industry. Everything's about burning body fat and building muscle. Everything else doesn't matter.

45:58Sal Di Stefano:And everything is done in these crazy short studies. That's right. Even a year is considered a long study. And to your point, even in a year, you wouldn't lose the skill of squatting. But you absolutely lose decades. Absolutely. Decades of not squatting.

46:10Adam Schafer:Listen, I'm going to say this straight up. We film models for our workout programs. We do this. We've had bodybuilders come in or physique competitors come in. to be models for our programs, and they could not perform basic free weight exercises with good technique. They were really developed. They were really strong. They work out because they never used free weights. They couldn't get full extension and overhead press. They had not good shoulder mobility, not good squat mechanics. It's because they don't do them. They haven't done them for years or decades. You could build all kinds of muscle.

46:41Adam Schafer:But they look awesome. But they look awesome.

46:43Sal Di Stefano:And lean body fat from those health markers. And if that's what we were studying, then yeah, you're right. look it you don't need you don't need to go free weights you don't need to do that yeah no I but you lose the skill this is always hard to argue with the the hypertrophy guys around I mean this is the area where I don't agree with you know I know I get categorized out of the three of us as that's my team or whatever but I don't agree with that you know like that in fact I believe this was one of my advantages when I was lifting weights against all of them was that a lot of them were trapped in this like shortened range of motion and machine type training and a lot of things that i didn't believe to be the best strategy for stuff and so i think that it worked to my my i mean i can't tell you how many of them stopped deadlifting it's like god such a great movement that you know again if you took the deadlift and you put it in a study against a you know lat pull down or a row and you measured the lat muscle you know i'm saying like we took you did that like you could make the case that well that dead lifting doesn't develop the back is

47:45Justin Andrews:good or the lats and it's just like this is the inherent problem when we zoom in too much just on muscle and we don't yeah we don't consider the overall movement uh and again there's a disconnect there and it's because you could you could put in a study something that's going to grow this specific muscle like to a certain degree but then how does that affect the overall movement patterns in the kinetic chain in general.

48:09Adam Schafer:And a lot of this takes a long time to start to develop. Here's another one. So this one was in Andy Galpin, another person I really respect. Love Andy Galpin. But he was on, I think it was Huberman's podcast. And the question was essentially how many sets are optimal for building muscle? So this is what came out of this. And I just had to repost and disagree. And yes, I'm disagreeing with the data, but I'll back it up. And it says 10 working sets per muscle group per week is the minimum threshold. Minimum? Aim for 15 to 20 sets per muscle group per week. Well-trained lifters, 20 to 25 sets per week.

48:44Adam Schafer:Okay, here's the facts. By the way, if you're a trainer who's trained people for more than five years and you train everyday people, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, everyday people. The average person who did 15 to 25 sets per body part per week would fry. It wouldn't work. It would fry them completely. 10 sets is right around what most people could tolerate. even some people even less need to do less than that so again i'm disagreeing with the data but the data doesn't tend to study everyday people and it doesn't study for very long you know if over a three-month period you might be able to handle and they're normally controlled these

49:16Sal Di Stefano:people during these times are in a control college aged males and the whole deal exactly yeah their ability to tolerate other other stress in their life what stress do you have you're 20 years old you don't have a wife you don't have kids representation you don't have a no it's not it's a terrible representation i mean the great transition from the conversation i was just having like a little bit of pickleball and a hard massage put my body in this crazy inflamed state so much that like my readiness state was but even with getting good sleep it's just like an inflamed it's just like you can't tell me and probably a 20 year old me would have plowed through those days like nothing had been good to roll well let me ask you guys how many of your clients

49:55Adam Schafer:would have done great with 20 sets per body part. I might have one. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. And he was like a super athlete. Yeah, dude. Nobody. So I had to repost that. And of course, all these other coaches and trainers commented like, this is crazy.

50:10Sal Di Stefano:I don't have any clients that can do. Oh, good. So other trainers. Oh, yeah. No. Oh, so that's good. Yeah. It's good because it's tough when we get into these discussions or debates with the academics who do some of the best research and studies and awesome stuff but it's just like i mean that'll get you so far um just like uh i mean i guess just training hundreds of people for decades will only get you so far the combination of the two is where it's really totally is the sweet spot

50:36Adam Schafer:speaking of sleep adam uh you said you wanted to say something about oh i've been dying to tell

50:41Sal Di Stefano:you guys this story so i was waiting for the show yeah yeah i've been well i've been waiting for uh eight sleeps ad to come around with us so i could bring it up on the show because i think it's such a great ad for them it's okay so i've talked about before like my big pitch on why everybody should get an eight sleep because even if it's a bit of an investment the amount of money that you would save on your electricity bill because you don't have to run your house all right on the cooling and everything else so even though i say that i still won't let my house go above 71 72 because it's just uncomfortable it starts getting above 72 in my house and i don't even used to run at 67 exactly so it's taken me a lot to even allow it to go that high uh mid mid 70s i'm not somebody who can be in a house comfortably like that it's just it's it's hard for me and so i'm stubborn so i just don't so you guys know what happened like but 10 days ago or whatever it was we had that heat wave come through yeah yeah three of the hottest days yeah my ac breaks day one it broke yes my upstairs ac where my bedroom is at oh breaks literally on the the first 102 day i think

51:44Adam Schafer:we had like all year long and i'm like son of a bitch so i get so my house okay my bedroom

51:50Sal Di Stefano:even with the fans even with me running my downstairs ac i couldn't cool my bedroom off more than 85 degrees 85 degrees i got one of the best nights of sleep with all of my covers and comforter on because your eight sleepers my freezing yeah i what i did do because i knew i was i was in for potentially going to be a rough night for me i did drop it lower than what it normally does and so it's already monitored and figured my body out so i'm like i don't need to go the lowest setting but i'm going to add minus two to because it breaks it up the night right so i went minus two minus two minus two on the three three points that it breaks it up and then it also has this feature i don't know if you guys know this or not but you can uh jump start the cooling process and it'll cool it lower than what you normally get and it takes like literally like 10 15 minutes so it's a new feature on the app you open it up and i forget what they call it um it's like uh super stark cooling or something like that and you hit it and then within like 15 minutes it brings it super cold down so i did do that and i changed minus two to all those things and so when i got in my 85 degree room where it's hot i got under my sheet my quilt and my comforter and slept all night long for a guy who can't handle at my room to be warm you know why that's

53:03Adam Schafer:so valuable to the inferno you know why that's so valuable because when you look at uh temperature your control in your home it makes a like during the day it's uncomfortable whatever deal with it maybe especially if you're trying to save money but it will affect your sleep negatively and so then you have to kind of do the math like is it worth it i'm gonna get bad sleep am i gonna be productive am i gonna be miserable makes a big difference so with something like an eight sleep uh for people who want to save energy bill i mean just run that you're hot during the day but then

53:32Sal Di Stefano:when you get into bed you get good sleep dude i i i have been saying this for a while but still was too afraid and chicken to let the house get too warm you know because it does the next next day when i finally had the guy come in and repair it my house been you know managing in the high 80s i mean it took all day of running the ac just to bring it all the way back down didn't help that we're 100 degree days at the same time but i was blown away on how comfortable i was with all my sheets on sheet quilt and comforter with that eight sleeve that's how badass that is it does make me want to find somebody so if you're a listener and you have one because i'm not this guy i'm not the try and save that much on the energy turn off your ac and see yeah i'm like super curious to somebody who is willing to take because i don't even like being up watching tv and 80 degree 80 degree house right so i'm curious to somebody who doesn't mind that or would love to test that to hear feedback because there's got to be somebody out there that owns this thing that has used it to like really lower the bill the worst i've ever now you guys know i have a pretty

54:36Adam Schafer:good tolerance for heat so i'm not like super averse to heat like you guys but i'm also a human so you know if it's really hot it is uncomfortable there is nothing nothing i've ever experienced like sleeping at my grandmother's house in sicily in the summer she had no ac the house is made out of concrete no it's on the you know the houses they're on top of each other so i'm like on the third floor maybe so you know heat rises to the top bro you guys it was like i slept on there's no sheet you're using no sheets i'm on the bed in my underwear i'm like 14 years old 13 years old and i'm just just a pool of sweat yes i'd have to roll to the side because the bed was wet where i was sweating and it was like that every night my dad would sleep on the balcony he'd go outside on the balcony in a chair he's sleeping in the balcony it's so it got so hot it was brutal yeah It was painful.

55:27Adam Schafer:I've never experienced anything like that.

55:28Sal Di Stefano:This has been coming up a lot lately. I don't know what the message is supposed to be with this, but the parallels of your life and my life. So literally at the same age, I'm living in Don Pedro at that time, and the summers get up to 110 there, and we lived on top of a hill in a double-wide trailer built home type thing and no AC running and stuff like that. We had a Doughboy pool, and what you would do is you would plunge the pool before you lay down, and I slept on top of my sheet with cold rags on my forehead and on my ankles to try and keep myself brutal same age same age same time that you're gonna just yeah just sweating just which is part of why i'm so i know that i'm like i got traumatized yeah i know it traumatized me and i'm over corrected to a point to hence the point of like holy crap my house actually got that warm and i still had great sleep i'm deathly afraid of feeling that feeling ever again that i still refuse to do it but I same age, same age, same time in my life.

56:25Adam Schafer:I just have memories because nobody had AC back then. Now, when we go to Sicily, well, I haven't gone there in a while, but if we go now, people put units in their windows. But back in those days, they couldn't really afford it. Nobody had air conditioning. Wow. And so in the summer, you just see, first off, the stereotype of the guy in his undershirt, his beater, like that's because you're so hot. You're in your boxers, beaters, this is what everybody's like all day, you know, at night, come home from work, and people are sitting outside with fans. And you're just looking, and everybody's sweating their asses off.

56:54Justin Andrews:Did you guys ever do the redneck hack for that?

56:58Adam Schafer:Is that ice bucket?

56:59Justin Andrews:Yeah, just a big ice, and then a fan blowing on the ice. We did that in college.

57:04Adam Schafer:Is that a swamp cooler? Is that what they call it?

57:05Sal Di Stefano:No, we got a swamp cooler. That was a big deal for our family. What's a swamp cooler? Is it something like that? It's a giant fan. Sucks. We cut a hole out of the wall, and it's a big machine. And then it's got cold water that's being pooled in there, like sitting in a pool, and then it's blowing. that air in there. That's exactly right. It's loud as shit, too. So it's like, who cares if you can't? Ooh. Yeah, Chicago's the extremes

57:31Justin Andrews:for me, for sure. Chicago's both, right? Yeah, it's both. Super hot.

57:34Adam Schafer:The coldest I've ever been in my life and the hottest I've ever been in my life. Yeah, I can't do cold. Cold makes me want to cry. I don't want to live. I'm done. I would rather do that. Yeah, I'd rather do the cold. Didn't you say it was so cold you could feel your nose hairs freeze? Yeah, I probably said that, yeah.

57:49Sal Di Stefano:That's scary. Chicago is where, because Chicago borders some of those lakes, right? So Chicago is where - It's the wind chill off the lake. Yeah, it has those famous pictures, those famous pictures of like cars. Yeah. There's like frozen icicles. There's just a freeze horizontal.

58:05Justin Andrews:Yeah, that just comes in and it literally just starts forming and you can, I don't know, if you watch like a time lapse, you can see - Yeah, like that. Yeah, you can see the, yeah, everything just starting to slowly freeze. The cars just are like, yeah, rock hard with ice and it's just like I couldn't even like open my car door now trip now trip off this right

58:24Adam Schafer:because this is all association okay extreme weather workouts my favorite because I used to work out in the backyard and I never missed a workout when I was a kid and so if it was hot I'm out there working out if it was freezing I'm out there working out loved like freezing workouts are the best wearing gloves that's why I love bundled up Rocky for the most yeah because I've done that with the whole like you know log and out in the snow and like did you put a log on your back yeah dude of course oh that's awesome i tell you guys i didn't tell you guys this so there's this uh this course that our church does every so often called better man and it's different churches do it so it's not like our church did it's like it's a course or whatever and it's at 6 15 in the morning okay so that's the time you need to be there because it's guys right so get up early whatever so i get there first day i'm sitting there i'm kind of tired energy drinks barely hitting me.

59:14Adam Schafer:You know what they open with? Rocky montage. No, they didn't. I'm like, don't you dare play this at 6.15 a.m. and expect me to sit down the rest of the time, bro. Like sitting on my chair. I'm like, I got to get up, dude. I got to be so hyped. Oh, that's hilarious.

59:27Sal Di Stefano:You got me so hyped, dude. I wish I was there to see that. I can only imagine. You can't sit in a 10, 15-minute meeting. I can't believe you're sitting down for an hour. There's no way. Hour devotional. Like someone plays Rocky right before.

59:36Adam Schafer:And it was the craziest one. Why are you still doing push-ups right now? It was literally while

59:43Adam Schafer:this is the wrong one. I mean, you gotta look up

59:46Sal Di Stefano:and go like, okay, I see the test. 100%. I see the test. Well,

59:50Adam Schafer:he built me up because I got broke down the whole time. They were talking about things in there and I'm sitting there feeling like, is he talking to me right now? Oh my God, bro. This is horrible. Juve is red light therapy that works. Look, studies show that red light therapy, the right red light therapy, the right intensity and wavelength in the studies makes your skin look a lot better. It speeds up recovery. It boosts testosterone. It can help with pain and inflammation. There are decades of studies on red light therapy. Photobiomodulation is what you'll find that shows that it works. And Juve uses medical grade red light therapy devices for your home.

1:00:33Adam Schafer:In the past, those devices would have cost tens of thousands of dollars, but Juve has made them affordable. And again, it's the same wavelengths and intensity that you see in the studies. Other companies that tout red light therapy don't use the ones that the studies are showing. In other words, use Juve and it's 10 times more effective. Go to Juve.com. That's J-O-O-V-V.com slash Mind Pump. Use the code Mind Pump. Get$50 off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Susan from Missouri. Hi, Susan. Hi, Susan. Hi, Susan.

1:01:07Justin Andrews:Hi, great to see you guys.

1:01:09Adam Schafer:Same. How can I help you?

1:01:10Justin Andrews:You have much more comfortable chairs than me. I'll just read the email like everyone does.

1:01:17Adam Schafer:Okay.

1:01:17Justin Andrews:I've been listening to the podcast for two years now doing every workout and I truly believe it's helped ship my mindset in such a good way. I don't watch the news. So you keep me up to date on politics, conspiracy theories, and parent, what parents are doing these days. Cause all mine are grown. Um, I love listening to your God story, Sal, and it gives me hope for those that I know have not yet found him. I am 51. I've worked out my whole life, done many ups and downs of cutting lower than what is healthy to lose weight. I have not been a fad diet fan, but I do follow mainstream hits, CrossFit, two-hour workouts that have way too many exercises, etc.

1:02:00Justin Andrews:Your podcast has taught me so much about throwing out the scale, looking at strength and how my clothes fit and how I feel as targets instead of the scale. I hope my attitude is a good role model for my daughters and granddaughter. Over the last three years, I've consistently strength trained only. My only cardio is my steps, which are around 8 ,000 a day. And I love to hike. As long as I have the stamina for long hikes, you'll never catch me running. For the last two years, I've worked out with a personal trainer. she's changed up my workout about every six to eight weeks and always leaves in the basics like the compound lifts that you always talk about i have reverse dieted bulked and cut during those two years and i feel better and stronger than ever i currently sit at 22 body fat and i'm very happy with that i'm on hrt so my hormones are great and i have a good sleep routine let's go i'm getting ready to go out on my own i feel like i've learned a lot from the two years with a personal trainer, but I'm ready to go out and try it myself.

1:03:02Justin Andrews:I have my maintenance calories really set. I've been on that for over a year. Slight bulk in the fall and the winter to gain a little bit more muscle and then back to maintenance for the rest of the year. My concern is I no longer have someone to plan my workouts and I need some advice. I've done the bro split four days a week and the full body three days a week. And honestly, both of them work for me. My goal is to still be able to work out, hike, and play with my grandkids 20 years from now. So bone strength, joint health, and muscle are my major targets. Do you recommend anabolic? Because that's what everybody starts with.

1:03:39Justin Andrews:Do I go with the new PPL or muscle mommy? I'm not sure where to go on that. I do plan on buying Prime Pro for the flexibility and joint health that you always talk about and to keep myself from injury as I get older.

1:03:53Sal Di Stefano:I like PPL. First of all, great job. Great job. Sounds like you hired a good trainer. Doing really, really well. Body fat percentage, the workouts, everything you're doing is so spot on. You look real healthy.

1:04:09Adam Schafer:Yes. Let me ask, can you mind if I ask you some questions about the trainer? Because you worked with them for a while.

1:04:14Justin Andrews:Yeah, two years.

1:04:15Adam Schafer:And how many days a week were you with them?

1:04:18Justin Andrews:They were an online trainer. okay okay so it was online coach okay yeah online um she was as good as you can get online she did take care of all of my diet um cool digestion she took care of all my workouts i would send her videos if i had questions about my form that's great okay that's great because i have because

1:04:38Adam Schafer:there's a few options i have for you because i i had clients that were with me for a very very long time um i had some clients with me over over 10 years but what it looked like was um you know in the beginning, I would see them more often. And then towards the end, it was, I would just check in with them to kind of give them, you know, some tips, maybe change a little here or there. So, and so that's, that is one option. I don't know if your trainer or your coach offers something like that. I know we kind of have something like that, but it would be like, Hey, can I have a less, is there an option to work with you or rather than meeting with you, you know, how, I don't know how many times you met with her, but maybe, you know, one fourth of that.

1:05:15Adam Schafer:So if it was like once. How often were you meeting with her like through video or, or online?

1:05:20Justin Andrews:I did a check-in and a video conference every week. Um, once a month, we'd have a 30 minute call on just how the month had gone.

1:05:28Adam Schafer:Okay. So, you know, when, when options like, Hey, do you have an option where I only meet with you once a month? Uh, or I touch him, I touch base with you every other month. So that's one option. Um, and, and not necessarily because you need it. You've been doing this for so long. You're doing a really good job. I feel pretty confident that you'd be okay. on your own. But I also know the value of having someone kind of look over things, having that, you know, that accountability. Yeah. And they also, you know, it's more than that too. It's like, we have our tendencies. And so a coach is, you know, they're taking a view from out here so they can say, Hey, you're doing a little too much of this, or let's move you in this direction.

1:06:06Adam Schafer:And you might not have done that on your own.

1:06:08Sal Di Stefano:Well, it can look as simple as something like this. Like, I think a great program choice for you is push pull legs or muscle mommy. Either one is a fine choice. I would probably push you in the push pull legs direction. And you go for the next month and you notice some nagging shoulder stuff or feel something. And it's like, when we have our check-in, I talk to you about it, ask some questions. And then I go, Hey, I want you to do these three movements before your workout every single time now. And let's drop this exercise. And we're going to add this one instead. And it's like, and then keep doing what you're doing with your diet.

1:06:38Sal Di Stefano:It's perfect. I love where it's at. Or you go something like, hey, you know, I'm starting to feel this way a little bit. And so I'd like to lean out. Okay, well, it's just like that. And you just go. And you go as long as you need to go until you check back in. I love that. And I think that is such a worthwhile investment. And I think you value, obviously, this just proven by how consistent you've been. Do you absolutely need it? No, I think you could go figure it out. But I would push you in that direction. But I like PPL. or that's my suggestion. Yeah, I like PPL for you.

1:07:13Justin Andrews:Yeah, it's good volume for you. I think PPL would be a good fit.

1:07:15Adam Schafer:Yeah, totally. And you obviously, I mean, you've been doing this for a while, so you have good, you can do all the exercises. You can do the presses.

1:07:21Justin Andrews:I've actually watched a lot of your videos on form. So I was due to hip thrusts when I started watching your podcast. And so I did watch the video on making sure I was doing it correctly because that's something, I put more weight on that than anything. So I was afraid I'd hurt myself after a little while.

1:07:41Adam Schafer:Yeah, no, you know, it's a good question to ask you, Susan, which I should have asked you is, what is the, is there like a worry or fear of going off on your own? And if so, however small, what is it? Is it the accountability? Is it just, I'm not sure the direction I'm going to go? What would that be if that's the case?

1:07:59Justin Andrews:I think I'm prone to, when I was doing my own workouts before, I'm prone to doing too much. Yeah. Okay. Overtraining. And so that's the reason I wanted to go with one of your programs. It's already set. I know exactly what I have to do and I don't overdo it that way. I am a hypertrophy, you know, to failure kind of person.

1:08:21Adam Schafer:So knowing yourself, if you never worked with a coach and you just followed our programs, would you be able to just follow our programs? Or do you think you still would have a tendency to kind of start to add a little bit or push a little too hard?

1:08:34Justin Andrews:no because i think as soon as i start seeing results on anything i'm like well then don't

1:08:38Adam Schafer:fix something that's not broke and just keep going with it okay so the programs that are great for you okay ppl muscle mommy and the whole 15s the whole 15 protocol you should try it at least yeah i think would be phenomenal for you symmetry would be awesome the programs you shouldn't do aesthetic split you know those types of routines yeah you might even be you might even be okay doing power lift, but just make sure you're in a surplus. But those are kind of the programs, the ones I mentioned, I think would all be appropriate for you. And, and, and you, I think you'll be surprised at how well you respond to a 15 protocol.

1:09:14Adam Schafer:Cause you might look at it and be like, this is nothing. Uh, but you throw it in here and there in between the other programs. And, uh, from our listeners who do this, they get the best results, uh, during those periods of time.

1:09:26Justin Andrews:I've looked at something like that. Cause I, I only go to the gym probably three to four days a week. So the rest of the time I'm just doing my walking, um, or I looked at some of the mobility that you guys have. So that's why I looked at prime pro or performance. I didn't know which one that I should use for the off days just to make sure my joints stay healthy.

1:09:43Adam Schafer:Prime pro. Yeah, it would be prime pro. Yeah. I like PPL.

1:09:46Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:09:46Adam Schafer:Let's go PPL three days a week. We'll send that to you.

1:09:49Sal Di Stefano:We'll do that.

1:09:49Adam Schafer:Great on that. Yeah.

1:09:50Justin Andrews:Perfect. That works great. Yeah.

1:09:52Sal Di Stefano:You got it. Thank you so much for the support. And Susan, if you do end up wanting that, so we, we have what's called a concierge program and you're a perfect fit for this. It's literally where you just check in once a month, uh, the, the program's included in that and they tailor it to you. So that's just part of the process. So if that's something, yeah. So that's something you're interested in, we can have someone that will call you and you can go over all that.

1:10:14Justin Andrews:Yeah, that would be great.

1:10:15Sal Di Stefano:Okay. All right. Awesome. All right, Susan. Thank you. Keep it up. Thank you. Yeah.

1:10:20Adam Schafer:Yeah. I mean, when I look back to, um, the clients that I had for a long time, uh, you know, would start two days a week, then it moved down to one day a week. Eventually, some of them were once every other week. And I had some clients who just met with me once a month. And it kept them consistent. It kept them going in the right direction. They never stopped with their workouts. Totally worth it.

1:10:41Sal Di Stefano:Well, I think we all have experiences. This is part of the reason why we built the Concierge Program is that it's the ideal evolution of every client. Our goal isn't to have a client forever. The goal is to teach them what they need to know to take care of themselves for the rest of their life. at the same time we've been doing this long enough to know how many people valued that. Man, I just like being able to check in. But you don't need to be paying me premium price to see me every single week. Just make little tweaks to keep you going. And just so you have that resource to check in with and go, hey, I'm feeling this.

1:11:13Sal Di Stefano:I noticed that. Totally. Or maybe six months goes by and you're like, you know what? I want to get ready for this run. Or I want to try this thing. Or you know what? I might enter in a power lift. And so you have somebody who's just tweaking the diet, adjusting things for you. And it's, I mean, it's why a lot of our clients, after they finish with our trainers, they end up in the concierge program.

1:11:32Adam Schafer:Our next caller is Alvin from Florida. Alvin, what's happening? How you doing, Alvin? What's up, buddy?

1:11:36Justin Andrews:Hello, hello, hello. I'm doing good. I'm excited. I've been preparing on how to say these things. And I'm okay. I'm finally here. Awesome. After a long time, like, planning to be here.

1:11:51Sal Di Stefano:Awesome. Are you wearing pants? Stop. Yeah, I got shorts on. Okay, okay. I got shorts. How can we help you?

1:11:57Adam Schafer:Keep it classy.

1:11:59Justin Andrews:Okay, let me base it on my email. I'm kind of old, 64 years, 6 foot, 200 pounds. I'm fat around abdomen, belly, that place there. I was obese for a long time. during my teenage years. I peaked at like 300 for a few years. 350 was my peak. Then I was maintaining 300 for I don't know how long, more than a few years. Then finally I lose weight, but everything that I lost was in the arms, in the legs, and my belly and stomach is still kind of fat. But people will say I'm not fat if I'm just dressed with a shirt, proper shirt and proper pants. But if I'm naked, I see myself, oh, I am really fat. And now my goal is longevity and become stronger and as badass as I can possibly be.

1:13:13and then what else?

1:13:18Justin Andrews:I want to avoid, I want to stay light. I want to avoid gaining weight. I want to stay light because I have this, I want to do some long distance hiking, maybe multi-day hiking. And also I'm trying, I'm learning flying now and I'd like to proceed with flying a glider and the gliders want you to be very light. And then I also need to fix my flexibility because I lost my ability to squat. A few years ago, I was still doing squats like air squats every time I take a break in the bathroom at one of my jobs. And recently, after a few years, I don't have that ability anymore. And my shoulders is also like kind of a little bit stuck.

1:14:21Justin Andrews:Now, another thing I want to do, I want to be able to do one pull-up for sailing purposes because if I fall in the water, I need to pull up to get back on the sailboat. That's it. And I guess my question is, what's the one program that will help me with my goals? And another question is, not wanting to build a lot of muscles, how much protein do I really need? Yeah. One gram is like really a lot.

1:14:59Adam Schafer:Good question. Thank you. So one thing I can 100 % promise you and guarantee is you're not going to build too much muscle. Okay. Yeah, there is no strength. I figured that, but I mean. It won't happen.

1:15:11Justin Andrews:I mean, with the protein, with the amount of protein that I should be taking.

1:15:15Adam Schafer:No. So one gram per pound of body weight is a good target. You can go a little less than that, maybe 7.7 grams per pound. But the high protein is good for longevity, mobility, strength, performance. It's going to be good for bone density. So it's actually going to be good for you. In fact, the data shows that the older you get, it's probably more important to have a higher intake of protein. It will also help with the fat loss. So if you eat it first and you stick to whole natural foods, there's this natural calorie dropping effect that happens because protein is very satiety producing. So what that means is when you're eating, you're 200 pounds.

1:15:54Adam Schafer:So let's say you aim for 160 grams of protein. Okay, so maybe 55 grams of protein for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and you eat it first, and it's whole natural foods. That does a lot to control your appetite, and it will naturally help you get leaner. It would also help you build muscle at the same time. So I definitely think we should aim for that. Avoid processed foods. And the program -

1:16:17Justin Andrews:That's processed food is out for more than a few years already. Good, good. I don't do home cooking every time. Oh, perfect.

1:16:24Adam Schafer:Good, good. The program that's good for you, especially considering that you said you've kind of lost the ability to squat, overhead pressing is feeling difficult. I think the best program for you is Map Starter. Okay. Starter? Yep, Map Starter. You're going to be using dumbbells and a physio ball. It's going to help with stability. It's going to help with balance. It's going to help you with technique and form. Okay. And after you follow Starter, maybe once or twice, then we can move you to another program. Symmetry could be good. You know, suspension would be good. You know, bands would even be good.

1:16:58Adam Schafer:But I like starter for you for at least a couple rounds. And you'll see your body progress nicely. What do you mean by a couple of rounds? You follow the whole program and then follow it again.

1:17:08Justin Andrews:Oh, okay. Like two cycles.

1:17:10Adam Schafer:Correct.

1:17:10Sal Di Stefano:Yes. Correct.

1:17:11Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:17:12Sal Di Stefano:Correct. I see you have, it looks like you have a pull-up bar and squat rack behind you. So you got an at home.

1:17:19Justin Andrews:I got that recently. wanting to improve with my, I got a few dumbbells, then I got this one recently with a barbell and a few smaller weights.

1:17:32Sal Di Stefano:Alvin, because you have some pretty good ambitious goals with the glider and getting into the boat and getting pull-ups and working on the shoulder, have you considered working with a personal trainer?

1:17:46Justin Andrews:Not really because one thing is Also, I'm building up the financial health on my side. Okay.

1:17:57Adam Schafer:Understood. So Starter would be the way to go. Now, Starter is going to be using dumbbells and a physio ball. Do you know what a physio ball is? Not really. It's like a yoga ball, the big inflatable ball that you sit on. You can get those real cheap.

1:18:12Justin Andrews:I think I got one of those in the shed. Perfect. Probably my daughter and my wife. Perfect. You'll be using that instead of the bench in this program.

1:18:22Adam Schafer:Yep. And so follow this program once, follow it again twice, and then you can start to try progressing to other exercises. But this will be good to build that foundation of strength and stability.

1:18:32Justin Andrews:Okay, so it's MAP Starter, you said?

1:18:34Adam Schafer:I'm sending it to you. We have your email. We're going to send it to you. We got you, buddy. You're going to get it for free.

1:18:38Justin Andrews:Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. One more question. Yes. If I could spare like$10 a day for some supplement, what will be good for my brain.

1:18:51Adam Schafer:Creatine.

1:18:52Justin Andrews:I'm going to take this exam with the flying, with the thing called the license to fly.

1:19:01Adam Schafer:Creatine by far. Multivitamin and creatine. Those two supplements are the best for what you're looking for. Multivitamin is very inexpensive. And these days, creatine monohydrate, just pure creatine monohydrate is also inexpensive.

1:19:14Justin Andrews:Okay, creatine. And what would be the ideal dose?

1:19:19Adam Schafer:About 5 to 10 grams a day. Yeah. If you can work that up with your stomach, it'd be ideal.

1:19:26Justin Andrews:What's it with the stomach? He's saying, well, like if you want to increase that, it gives you more cognitive benefits. So meaning if we get close to 15 grams, that'd be great, but not all at once. So start with five, see how you do.

1:19:38Sal Di Stefano:Take five with every meal. That would be ideal. Yeah. So every time you eat, you also have some creatine. five grams every every meal also have five grams of creatine great yes that would be that would be perfect we'll send that the program to you shoot for the protein like we said follow follow the program that we're going to send to you at least two rounds two rounds uh what what's the

1:20:02Adam Schafer:time frame for one round i believe it's nine weeks yeah almost almost three months is it 12 weeks it's just under that yeah it's like 10 okay so it'll give you it'll give you like two and a half months. So you've got yourself about probably four, four and a half, five months of programming.

1:20:17Justin Andrews:Okay. There's, there's an underlying thing that just came up. My daughter's getting married December next year. So I have a lot of time. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I look good already, but look better.

1:20:31Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Yeah. You'll be all right, dude. Follow, follow it through two rounds. And then I want you to email us in back any questions or concerns or anything else you want to know, Just email us back, okay? Okay.

1:20:42Justin Andrews:We'll do that.

1:20:43Sal Di Stefano:All right. Thanks, Alvin. All right, Alvin.

1:20:44Justin Andrews:Thank you very much. Thank you very much, everybody. Excuse my remembering the names. The brain is not very good. But next time, I'll be better.

1:20:54Adam Schafer:No worries. We got you, Alvin. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye.

1:20:57Justin Andrews:Have a good day. Yep.

1:20:59Adam Schafer:I haven't heard that in a while. I don't want to build too much muscle. That was really common. That was always my favorite. People used to say that all the time. They're like, listen, you ain't going to build too much muscle.

1:21:07Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah. Let's not worry about that. He's, you know, that comes from the kite, the flying, the flying. Sure, I understand what he means. He doesn't want to be heavy. Yeah, I get what he means.

1:21:17Adam Schafer:I used to have this. This was the late 90s when I was in gyms. People would be like, you know, I'll try lifting weights. You don't look like a bodybuilder. But I don't want to look like a bodybuilder. I'm like, listen, that will not happen. I don't care. In fact, you can try looking like that when you want to look like that.

1:21:31Justin Andrews:I used to have ladies that would think, like, I'm training them like a line. I'm going to turn into a linebacker in these types of exercises.

1:21:37Adam Schafer:I'm like, no, you're not.

1:21:40Sal Di Stefano:Our next caller is Jordan from Arizona. Hi, Jordan. Hi, Jordan. Hello.

1:21:45Justin Andrews:Hi. How are you guys? Good. How can we help you? So first of all, I want to do like a little thing. Just say hi to my mom because I know she's listening right now. She's been listening for a really long time. Oh, cool. And also I really respect how much you guys focus on women's health. And I think right now I need the education. A lot of girls like me also need this kind of rally wake up call as well. but I'll go ahead and get into it. So I decided to go get an in-body scan and the results were kind of interesting to me. So for reference, I'm 5 '10", 21, weigh around 128 to 130 and I came in at 9.8 % body fat and skeletal muscle mass was around 65 pounds.

1:22:28Justin Andrews:So I love training and I love working towards a lean physique and I've heard you guys talk about reverse dieting before. So So my question is, if my primary goal was to maintain my current physique while preserving or potentially building muscle, would a reverse diet make sense? And if so, what would the progression with my calories and training look like? And I'll be honest, a lot of my goals revolve around aesthetics. I'm also wondering if a reverse diet is suitable for that.

1:22:57Adam Schafer:Yeah. Thanks for calling in. Yeah. Okay. So can I ask you some more questions, Ordin? Of course. So in your email, you said that the scan was kind of like a wake-up call? Definitely. Explain that. What do you mean by that?

1:23:14Justin Andrews:When I was listening to you guys, I didn't really know where a female should sit at in body fat percentage-wise. And the second I saw that it was below 10%, I realized the people who are below or around 10 % usually are going into a bodybuilding show. And that's not something that I'm doing right now. so i realized i definitely need to have more like body fat on my body to have like a functioning and have like better hormones and stuff like that so i kind of

1:23:44Sal Di Stefano:got a little scared from that number i think have you lost your menstrual cycle i have okay okay

1:23:51Adam Schafer:any other you mentioned um balancing out hormones and stuff have you noticed that besides the number Cause you know, you could look at a number and it could, it could be scary or not. Uh, you lost your menstrual cycle, which is a sign. Are there any other signs and symptoms that you could kind of point to and be like, maybe I should eat more or.

1:24:10Justin Andrews:I would say definitely strength. I feel like I've had to like drop my weights a lot at the time. And I'm also not as motivated to go exercise. And I think my sleep is great, which is kind of a factor that I also was paying a lot of attention to. and that was, but I think my loss in strength was definitely a big sign.

1:24:33Adam Schafer:What is, uh, you said your mom listens to the show. What does your mom say to you about all this? Do you guys talk about this?

1:24:39Justin Andrews:We do. We talk about a lot. She actually told me to ask about a reverse diet and see if that was something that I should look into and how that would look. And I think she's also kind of showing me the different programs you have as well. Cause she just started the muscle mommy one as well. So she's really liking it.

1:24:58Adam Schafer:All right. And so you did mention, you know, probably need to gain body fat, but you also said maintain my physique and aesthetic. Is there a fear around gaining body fat?

1:25:10Justin Andrews:I think so. I think it's just a fear of the unknown of where, because I know every single person is different as well, like where the body fat is going to accumulate most likely. so I think there is a bit of a fear there but I also like the idea of with that like gaining strength also improving my endurance yeah and also I do know that the one of the factors of like losing a menstrual cycle is bone density as well so I think that in combination with more strength training and getting stronger would really help combat that did you did you see the bone density on your dexa scan did it say anything about that i didn't okay okay um i'm glad

1:25:52Sal Di Stefano:we're catching you at 21 just so you're because it's so good that we're so good that you're having this conversation now and not five years from now or even later than that which we have your age is

1:26:03Adam Schafer:what makes you so resilient uh but losing your menstrual cycle is a really big sign big sign that you're undernourished and likely overtrained on top of that. And the overtrained part is connected to being undernourished. It doesn't take much to be overtrained when you're undernourished. But I do want to ask you what your workout looks like now. Like how, in your email it says you love the gym. How many days a week are you in the gym and how long do you spend in there? I'd say around four to five days a week.

1:26:32Justin Andrews:And I usually try to just make it pretty quick. I go to like an hour, maybe an hour and a half max. if I'm doing a little bit of cardio afterwards. But it's typically around two leg days, two upper body days, and then I'll throw in a core day. And usually Pilates workout or just other functional core exercises.

1:26:53Sal Di Stefano:What's the activity look like outside of the gym? Are you doing other activities?

1:26:58Justin Andrews:I don't do any other activities, but I just go over 10K steps a day.

1:27:02Adam Schafer:Okay. would you be prepared to let go of this and have somebody else do this for you in other words just listen to somebody's advice for a little while absolutely because that's probably what it's going to take to do this properly because it's going to be on your own it's going to be scary because you will gain weight you will gain body fat you'll also get stronger you'll also become more fit you'll also have more energy your menstrual cycle will come back and you'll feel good, but the weight on the scale will go up for sure. And it's going to be scary for you. And you will eat more than you're used to.

1:27:43Adam Schafer:And you'll also work out less than you're used to, which all of those things are really scary if that's what you're used to and you want to do it, especially if you see the scale go up and it goes up 10 pounds and 15 pounds and 20 pounds. You're 5 '10", so you're pretty tall. A fit, muscular-ish physique at your height is, with a decent body fat percentage, like 19%, which is lean, but that's double what you're at. You're sitting at 150, 160 pounds. And that's a scary number to somebody who's used to sitting at 120, 130 pounds, but you're tall. I could tell you what to do. I could send you the program.

1:28:23Adam Schafer:I could tell you how to reverse diet, what that looks like. My confidence in your ability to follow through with it on your own is low, and it has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with my experience. It's very difficult. It's a very difficult process. Well, because you will be uncomfortable.

1:28:40Sal Di Stefano:You will be uncomfortable. You will not like it. It will be hard, but that's part of the process. Goal one is, and the only thing if you're getting coached by us, we're talking about is menstrual cycle and strength. That's all we're talking about. I don't care what you look like. I don't care what the scale set. All I care about is, have we got that menstrual cycle back? Are you getting stronger in the gym? And we're going to keep reverse dieting and keep pushing in that direction until that. And then we can play with sculpting the body, body fat percentage, all those things. But those are the first two things.

1:29:11We have to get healthy first and foremost.

1:29:14Sal Di Stefano:And then we can set all the other goals later. And that period of time for every client that I've trained is really is just, it's tough. It's tough.

1:29:25Adam Schafer:Now, just to encourage you, now that Adam's scared the crap out of you about this, okay. Being healthy, being healthy looks good.

1:29:34Justin Andrews:Yeah.

1:29:34Adam Schafer:Being healthy looks better than being unhealthy. And then the other thing to encourage you with is because of your age, your body's going to respond well.

1:29:42Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, that's why I'm excited about you coming to us right now.

1:29:45Adam Schafer:We've worked with female clients in their mid-30s who've done this for most of their lives. Much harder. And getting their menstrual cycle to come back can sometimes take a long time. I feel very confident that we would see, you know, within three to six months, a rapid transformation in your health. And your strength is going to go way— Through the roof. Like triple, quadruple. It's going to trip you out. The weight that you can lift in the gym. That's going to blow you away is how stronger you get. And I will encourage you to focus on your strength. that's what's going to keep you on point through this whole process.

1:30:15Sal Di Stefano:It's going to look like dramatically reducing the volume of training too, by the way. I know you said the gym is kind of quick for you, hour, hour and a half, but it's going to look like a lot less days and less time in there.

1:30:26Adam Schafer:Yeah, you might be in there three days a week, 45 minutes, something like that.

1:30:29Sal Di Stefano:That sounds great.

1:30:33Adam Schafer:Jordan, if you're open to hiring one of our coaches, because I think that's the best bet, I can have someone call you And if I were coaching you, I would say between six to nine months is how long I'd want to work with you to get you out of this and then comfortably off on your own and just feeling amazing.

1:30:51Justin Andrews:I would love that.

1:30:52Adam Schafer:Okay. We'll have somebody call you for sure.

1:30:55Sal Di Stefano:I'm excited for you. And I'm also proud of you coming right now to us like that. I know it takes a lot. Thank you. Yes, to put yourself out on camera and stuff like that. But to come to us at 21 years old, like we got this. I wouldn't be. We got this and we're going to turn around fast.

1:31:09Adam Schafer:And I wouldn't be surprised if 30 to 60 days, you started to feel really different. Yes. Just because your age and how resilient that makes you. Oh, I hope so.

1:31:17Justin Andrews:And I hope this message hopefully gets to a lot more people my age. Cause I think right now, some of the stuff we see is just putting us all in the wrong direction.

1:31:26Adam Schafer:So I 100 % agree.

1:31:28Justin Andrews:I'm going to keep promoting this.

1:31:29Adam Schafer:100 % agree. Jordan, one more piece of advice, uh, uh, uh, take your algorithm and, and thoughtfully change it away from fitness influencers through this process because that really especially for young women is toxic it is so toxic so just like get off you know don't look at those they're just gonna it's gonna move you in the all kinds of crazy directions we'll do we'll step you through

1:31:51Sal Di Stefano:this we got you thank you all right i appreciate it thank you all right well i'm uh see 21 year

1:31:59Adam Schafer:at nine percent body fat uh losing her period so resilient at that age to reverse her out and get her her body's gonna respond very well very very well but boy is it gonna be scary and that's why i'm giving her numbers like 150 160 pounds because like you're gonna have to gain yep 20 to 30 pounds yeah i know there's a there's a part of me because she she is so receptive she is so positive she

1:32:24Sal Di Stefano:called that feels bad for like really pushing in the direction like unique but it's just like Like, it's just, you're hearing experience. Well, we got you. Of training someone like that. Like, the difficulty of - Oh, yeah.

1:32:35Adam Schafer:Like, two, three months in, the scale's going up. You're going to be really -

1:32:38Sal Di Stefano:Well, here's the reality of it. And I've openly talked a lot about the journey with Corinne and our whole thing and struggle with, like, trying to build muscle. And obviously, that's her goal, right? She wants to build muscle. Yeah. But what happens sometimes when you've been running a low body fat - You just gain fat. You just gain body fat.

1:32:54Adam Schafer:She's 9%, dude. She needs to. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

1:32:57Sal Di Stefano:But you can logically understand that all day long. But then when you see it, you feel it, it can be very discouraged, especially when you're putting the work in, right? You're going to the gym, you're eating whole foods, you're just eating more of them. Your coach is telling you, we need to go this direction. So what we hope and will be exciting is that relatively quick, we can get the menstrual cycle back because that's the main focus and that's exciting in itself. Like, hey, this is – so you see, this is your body telling you you're moving the right direction because the mirror, the scale could be really rough for a little bit until we get there.

1:33:32Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

1:33:32Adam Schafer:And in my experience, this is again, my own experience with a few people I've had in this particular situation, her period will probably come back. She's going to have to gain like six, 7 % body fat before that even starts to happen. Although her age, I tell you what, man, someone early twenties, young female, even at 9%, she's resilient. You can see it in her face because if she was 30 at 9%, it would look really weathered. And so there's a little bit of a, it's a little deceiving when you're that young and that depleted. Although, you know, that's why I asked her what mom says because parents know.

1:34:06Adam Schafer:But yeah, she's going to have to at least double that. All right. Our next caller is Thais from California. Welcome back. Well, hello there.

1:34:13Sal Di Stefano:How are you?

1:34:13Justin Andrews:Hey, guys. How are you doing? Good.

1:34:15Adam Schafer:It was good to see you in person. Yeah, yeah.

1:34:18Justin Andrews:It was so good to see you guys. I would have loved to be able to talk to Justin and Adam a little bit more, but it was nice to talk to Sal and Doug and see you guys and feel your vibes. You guys are a hundred percent, man. It was like for the audience, like what you see and what you feel over here, it's the real deal. And I'm really just, I don't know. I'm grateful to have had this.

1:34:46Sal Di Stefano:I'm glad you liked the live event. That's good.

1:34:48Adam Schafer:so you made it give us so give us a little update so how's it going last time we talked i think we were just like hey try and get into some communities get some support you know type of deal and i think that's kind of where we left off you've been you've been really just doing so much uh for taking it all yeah just trying to take everything on so what's going on yeah um so sorry i'm just turning up my volume here um yeah a lot has happened um the community Everything didn't really happen so much.

1:35:21Justin Andrews:The intention was there. I set some, like, I'm going to go to this class Wednesday night. So excited. But my responsibilities as a mom takes, you know, precedence. And each and every time, like, my kid needs a lot of support with school and schoolwork. And by the time all those responsibilities are taken care of, there's just, you know, the class is gone, whatever. So it's hard. I'm a single, you know, I'm a single mom and I provide like I don't have any support or family around. So it's just the two of us. So making that time has been challenging. However, I have said yes to a couple of girlfriends who invited me out a couple of times.

1:36:03Justin Andrews:So that was good. And I'm, you know, doing my best just to open that door a little more. I definitely know the value of having more of that security, that bolstering of community. But yeah, my priority is my son and, you know, I got to make sure he's cared for. So that's been a little bit challenging. but um i don't know if you got to read my little update because i had a big aha moment in regards to my body and my pain um which is that i believe that i've been dealing with hypermobility my whole life and i have not realized it um and so it's been um eye-opening i always felt very broken I never felt like I fit into my body.

1:36:57Justin Andrews:My body always just felt broken and flawed. And, you know, I thought that that was mainly because I had the history of obesity, especially during my puberty, my puberty years, like I just thought my bones, whatever. however um i have a new client who has heds and so i did some research around that which is hypermobile ellers downlows syndrome and there were just so many moments uh where i was like wow that sounds a lot like me not the ellers ellers downlows but when i learned more about hypermobile spectrum disorder without kind of more of the connective pushy stuff then i realized holy cow, like, I think that's what's happening with me because my whole life, like my ankles would give out, my knees will almost dislocate when I'm just standing up from the floor.

1:37:51Justin Andrews:Sometimes walking will cause my hips to almost go out. When I sleep, I have a lot of pain. And after discovering more about this, I realized, oh, the pain is because it feels like my joints are collapsing, you know, so it'll hurt on one side and then I'll flip over and it'll hurt on the other side. And I sprained my neck when I was young by doing a headstand. And I don't know that that's normal. There's a lot of things that I thought, anyhow, I don't want to talk too much, but I think that that has a lot to do with what's happening. And I'm wondering, you know, from your experience as well, if it's possible that, you know, even if I'm not overdoing it, doing two or three lifts a day or something like that, not going to fatigue, not going super heavy, that leaves me with more pain and discomfort, perhaps because of some type of central nervous system signaling to, you know, support the joints more, or I don't know, I'm trying to put it now and I want to figure out what I need to do.

1:39:03Adam Schafer:You, you, you, I think you're hitting the nail on the head. Uh, by the way, I can tell you're sitting kind of cross-legged. Are you, are you, are you sitting like, or do you tend to sit in like stretches? This isn't, this is just something I noticed from people with hypermobility. They tend to sit in ways that I couldn't get into if I tried.

1:39:19Justin Andrews:You know, what's interesting is I've been watching the prime pro stuff and I was watching your guys' 90, 90s and how it's like so hard to put your knee down. And I was like, what? like that's hard are you serious like because my knee just falls down you know doing some of the

1:39:33Adam Schafer:other stuff is hard for me but not that yeah so hypermobile i i think you hit the nail on the head so yeah you're so short range of motion yeah so you hear us communicate full range of motion that is symmetric that is not good for you training really full range of motion for you can cause pain so short range of motion but ideally it's isometric isometrics pause reps

1:39:53Sal Di Stefano:when you do exercises so you're the way you lift weights doesn't look traditional anymore

1:39:57Justin Andrews:it's not this yeah i need to figure that out pot i don't know what pause so what it looks like is

1:40:03Sal Di Stefano:so let's take any exercise that you would normally do and you would take it through full range of motion and you would move at this kind of normal tempo what it looks like is you don't go through the full range you shorten it up so just short of what you would normally go and you pause for three seconds and then you go up okay and you don't go as high as you would go before you pause and you pause for three seconds. So in every rep and exercise that you do, you're mindful of, oh, I would go further up or I would squat further down and you stop it short of that and you pause the body in that and you contract the body.

1:40:37Sal Di Stefano:You do an isometric. So you pause.

1:40:39Justin Andrews:Extra emphasis on your tensing.

1:40:40Sal Di Stefano:So you pause and you tense up for three seconds and then you go and your reps start to look like that.

1:40:46Adam Schafer:We're trying to make you tighter. So do you have symmetry, map symmetry?

1:40:52Justin Andrews:Yes. I think I'm, yeah, I think so. If you do, I haven't gone into it yet.

1:40:58Adam Schafer:If you don't, we'll send it to you. The beginning is a two weeks of isometrics. Yeah. Okay. I want you to do that. Not for two weeks. I want you to do that for like three months.

1:41:08Justin Andrews:Oh, wow. Okay.

1:41:09Adam Schafer:That's your workout is isometric. Okay. That's it. Okay. For now. Yeah. Okay. Nothing else for now. Then when you get into traditional strength training, it looks like what Adam is saying. Yeah.

1:41:20Justin Andrews:Okay. So What Adam is saying, that's inflection and extension. That's in both directions. Yes.

1:41:28Adam Schafer:But you're not going to shorten the range. Yeah. So like, let's say that you can sit in a squat. No problem. That's not where you're going to stop. You're going to stop at parallel. Always short. Yeah.

1:41:39Justin Andrews:Oh, parallel. Wow. Okay.

1:41:41Adam Schafer:And hold tightness. But the isometric portion of symmetry for you, do that for a while. Okay. That's going to bolster and strengthen your joints. and it's going to help make you a little bit more stable.

1:41:53Justin Andrews:Okay. Yeah, that sounds really good. I've been consistent with mobility training, you know, since we last talked. And I feel like that has helped a lot already. But I do notice that other little pain things pop up. And I've been wondering like, oh, is like my squat too deep? Because like my knees will start to hurt. And so I'll try that. Would I continue with the mobility as well?

1:42:18Adam Schafer:So mobility is okay, but here's the difference. So you're connected and tensing the entire time. You are not sitting in any of the positions.

1:42:27Justin Andrews:Call it kin stretch. It's a lot more emphasis on like really tightening the muscles in those positions. It's less about, you know, like getting full range and really, it's really just like articulating your way through, really tensing your way through these movements. Yeah.

1:42:42Adam Schafer:I don't even know if I want you to do mobility. I want you to just do the isometrics for a while.

1:42:47Sal Di Stefano:Because the mobility, okay, if I'm training you as a client. It's too in-range focused. Mobility looks different for you. Yeah. Okay? It's like most people look at mobility as like an active stretch, and it's like a stretching thing. It's less of a stretching thing for you. It's more of a.

1:43:04Justin Andrews:That's how it's been feeling. It's been feeling less of a stretching thing. Okay, good, good. I've been like really, really engaged throughout all the motions.

1:43:11Sal Di Stefano:Good, good.

1:43:12Justin Andrews:That's why it's helping. I'll say like the weird thing is, is that like, I, I feel like the joints are super lax, but I feel tight at the same time. Like my, like my thoracic rotation extension, it's very limited.

1:43:28Adam Schafer:Um, but like deep in the bones, they feel, I feel like my brain is, um, you know, having

1:43:36Justin Andrews:to wrap itself around something that is so brand new.

1:43:39Adam Schafer:The fact that you strength train has actually protected you a lot. Yeah. I just want you to know that. So hypermobility is very pain and injury prone. The fact that you have some pain here and there and things kind of bother you is a testament to the fact that you've done strength training. You've done a lot better than somebody who has hypermobility who has not done strength training. But I want isometrics for you. The other thing I'd have you do, if you haven't tested your vitamin D levels, I'd like for you to get that tested and see if you need to supplement with vitamin D. because that can also play a role in pain in situations like you're talking about.

1:44:16Sal Di Stefano:So the advice on mobility actually looks the same as strength training also. So in other words, like you brought up the thoracic mobility. So like say you're doing like a lizard with rotation. Typically someone with lizard rotation, we do the rotation and we're trying to really challenge that in range rotation and connect. For you, I might actually shorten it up and just tense the body. That's it. So instead of like trying to really put emphasis on how far you rotate or how far you lunge into something or how deep you go into the stretch and connect. Actually, who cares? I don't care if you shorten it up a little bit.

1:44:47Sal Di Stefano:And then I do an isometric. So go to, let's say, lizard rotation. Go open up. And I know you because you have hypermobility. You could go all the way another six, eight inches. I'm going to shorten you at the six, eight. But then I want you to tense your whole body in that position and then come back and then open up and then tense in that position. So your mobility movements even look a little bit different. They're more isometric.

1:45:08Justin Andrews:Yeah, it's really just like introducing certain positioning with your body so you get familiar with those positions. But now you're adding stability. It's all about stability. It's like creating tension, owning that position, and then kind of working your way back. That's it. Okay. I noticed that in some of the positions, there isn't a lot of flexibility. You know, in a lot of position, it's very limited. But you would suggest the same thing. Like my rotation, you know, I'm not sure what the lizard one is, but you guys had one on there where you're like reaching through the arm on all fours and then reaching above.

1:45:47Justin Andrews:That has actually felt so amazing for me. And it was really, really limited. But I am very active in the positions and it's felt helpful. uh so i'm i'm wondering if i just kind of keep going with that but then give my attention to like does it feel like i'm overextending in some way shape or form i don't just hold it like less

1:46:10Adam Schafer:less of like moving through it and just holding it i don't mind you doing the ones that you think feel good for you yeah uh but i but i do want your workouts to be isometrics for a while yeah okay Exactly. Okay.

1:46:21Justin Andrews:Will I be able to like continue to like maintain muscle or build muscle? My lower body is very weak and it's been hard because I keep going through what I would call like overuse injuries, but maybe it's because of the hypermobility, but knee inflammation, it's like really held me back from getting stronger. And I've been, my balance has been off my whole life, like really bad, you know, like my arches fall, my, my ankles are unstable and I really want to work on my lower body, my balance, my stability. Um, so is that something that I'll be able to continue to develop through the isometrics and the isometrics are going to help you develop that

1:47:05Adam Schafer:strength. If we give, if we can make things more stable and counteract the hypermobility kind of issues, then you'll get better results. Yeah. But this is first, this is first order. Cause without this we're just going to keep doing what we've what we've been doing all about stability okay yeah so it's literally like they're you're you'll see when you get maps and we look at the first two weeks you're like holding a position and creating tension in that position so you're not even moving uh but that's that's what needs to happen for like a couple months at least yeah

1:47:34Sal Di Stefano:okay tice that we kind of addressed uh the exercise stuff that i think is kind of the goal for the next few months um i want to talk a little bit about the community thing because definitely heart goes out to you when when you're doing everything yourself it's really tough to get out of the house and go somewhere um have you considered like doing like um bunco or bridge or having people over to your house on a weekly or bi-weekly basis with some of your girlfriends or friends that you guys you know i don't know if you're into cards i don't know if you're into board games uh or ever been interested in that like my aunt has her bunco week that she does every week with all her neighbor friends and they get together and it's the girls get together have a glass of wine they have a blast I mean something like that where they come to you and you host it so it doesn't require you go and go leave uh your house that's a possibility

1:48:25Justin Andrews:I like that idea I mean I I really like that idea um I can again like put my intention there and see it's just I I don't want to make excuses or sound like a victim or anything like that I'm not I just It's like, it's this like stage in time where it's difficult because all my girlfriends are moms, you know, and wives and like, you know, they've got, oh my God, I'm going to tear up. They got, you know, their, their families and stuff. And okay. Sorry. Yeah. But I, I'm going to continue to. Oh, man. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I will. Yeah, it's just, I will. It's just challenging. It's challenging. I can't imagine.

1:49:16Justin Andrews:It's just challenging right now. But, you know, I also know that, like, this is just right now. You know, my kid has a lot of needs. My community is where they're at. And, you know, my kid is 16. And so, like, in a couple years, things are going to be different. in the meantime yes i i i will reach out more and and see if i can create more opportunities for um getting together and everything um and you don't you don't you don't sound like a victim

1:49:52Sal Di Stefano:okay i don't i don't think that at all just know that me is just throwing out all these things until something hits like oh you know what that's it's a good idea maybe i'll try that it's less uh it's less me pushing that you gotta go do this i i can feel that your heart wants that that you're trying that that you have a ton of responsibility on your plate and so that's part of my job as a coach is like let me let me find some other ways that we could do this like does it look like first maybe it looks virtual first where i join for i love hearts that's my card game right so hearts and spades so i join a you know of a facebook forum group of other people that love the card game and I meet people online first and then eventually find out, oh, wow, some people live within 10 miles of me.

1:50:37Sal Di Stefano:And then I invite new people over that I start to meet. I don't know. I don't know what that sounds like or could resonate with you. But that's I'm just throwing suggestions, not because I think that sometimes the first

1:50:48Adam Schafer:step is you just tell the friends you have that you're having a tough time. It doesn't even have to be scheduled anything. You're just like, hey, I just need somebody to talk to. And I'm just going to tell you, like, things are really hard right now. And that's it. Yeah. People tend to show. Yeah. You know, yeah.

1:51:03Justin Andrews:I mean, I just, my friends, my friends know my, my life has been hard for the past 22 years. You know, they, they saw me get out of this like crazy situation and like, I'm doing a lot better now than I have been. But, you know, I will say that I think I mentioned last time I do have this online, it's an online dance community and we do get together every week. I mean, we don't hang out and talk about life so much, but it's definitely feeling more and more like a community. And it's something, you know, that's good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. But just keep and yeah, I have I have, you know, a couple girlfriends who have a little more space and time and it's just a busy time in life.

1:51:48Justin Andrews:But yeah, yeah, those are that is good.

1:51:52Sal Di Stefano:Just keep thinking in that. I think that's the point I want to make is just that don't, don't give up on it and you know, something will present itself and just keep putting some attention in that direction. And you know, something, something will eventually click, but the value of it is, is, is tremendous.

1:52:08Adam Schafer:In the meantime, we're going to look up your account. If you don't have symmetry, we'll just send that to you. And it's that, it's the first part of it. It's two weeks in there. Just keep repeating that. I think that'll make a big difference with the pain. Yeah.

1:52:20Justin Andrews:Yeah. I'll do that. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I do have symmetry, but if you guys can check on the back end, then that'll make it easy. Thank you so much.

1:52:29Adam Schafer:Thank you so much. It was great to meet you in person, by the way.

1:52:31Justin Andrews:Yeah, it was really good to meet you, too.

1:52:33Adam Schafer:If you need anything, you send us an email, okay?

1:52:35Justin Andrews:Thank you. I will. Yeah, I appreciate you guys. Thank you. All right. Okay. Bye.

1:52:41Adam Schafer:That's tough. Yeah. That's really hard. On the good note, I think she hit the nail on the head with mobility. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's not a question. It's not a question. For sure. Well, it's not a question I normally ask because it's not common. I've only had a couple clients with real hypermobility. But while she was talking, I don't know if you guys noticed, while she was talking, she picked her leg up and like – Yeah, was moving in. And the people that I know that I've worked with hypermobility, when they sit, they don't sit normally. They have to sit in a weird stretch position to feel kind of comfortable.

1:53:12Justin Andrews:Yeah, like 45-degree kind of goals.

1:53:13Adam Schafer:Yeah, and so the isometrics will make a big difference. But, you know, it's tough, man. Personal life-wise, it's tough to do it without doing it with other people. And sometimes it means you just tell them. But then, you know, there's always a struggle. Do I have a burden? Do I want to just keep telling people my problems? I mean, I totally get that. Look, if you like this podcast, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

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1:54:18Sal Di Stefano:The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com.

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