From Nagging to Independence: Chores That Work - Katie Kimball

20:29Katie Kimball:What, you know, what can you guys take on? And basically, we had a family meeting and we had these little pieces of paper. They were like, okay, well, I guess I can take this and I can take that. And so would you recommend kind of involving the kids in the conversation? I mean, I guess the downfall of that is that I think there are some things that I'm a little worried that they didn't learn because I was like, okay, they took the things that they wanted to take. I don't know.

20:55Hunter Clarke-Field:It's, I mean, it's a both and, right? We need the system system to structure like who does what and when and how do we get everything done in the week or the month or whatever. And then we need the teaching. How do we do? How do we shovel the walk? How do we do our laundry? How do we fold our laundry? And so I see that as kind of two different things. And so what you were talking about is that structure. And I do include choice in the way we run chores. Would that be okay if I kind of talked about our system? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, tell me. So we've actually used almost the same system for 10 years, which means it's well refined and it hasn't broken and it works really well.

21:34Hunter Clarke-Field:I think because it's really flexible. It's just enough structure to make it work, but tons of flexibility within that. So we have a piece of paper and a sheet protector that lists all of the things that have to be done weekly and monthly in the Kimball household. And then each kid has to choose, this has shifted a little, either a certain number or now we've assigned them point values because some chores are bigger than others, right? They have to get 20 points a week to live in the house. Like that's their, you know, that's their pass. They get 20, 20 points a week. If they get more than 20, they get paid for them.

22:07Hunter Clarke-Field:So that's, you know, if you do more than you're expected, you get paid. And so, but that's the thing is they get to choose every week what they do. And it's interesting. I don't know if this is human nature or just my kids. They do get in ruts where they'll often choose the same thing every week. But if a sibling grabs it before them, And then, you know, then they don't get it. So that's really interesting. They can also choose when they do the task. So the week lasts from Monday to Sunday. And I don't have to nag or remind or beg them to do their chores until like there's a magical stop point.

22:40Hunter Clarke-Field:And that's Sunday after brunch. I chose that because almost always we're all home at that time. Whereas if I chose any other dinner, who knows, right? It's no man's land. But Sunday brunch, we're almost all together, almost always all together. And so Sunday after brunch, that's the breaking point where if you have 20 points, you can recreate. You can play your video games. You can go find a friend, whatever. If you don't have 20 points, all recreation is not allowed regardless of what it is. So that's when they need to bring to me and I call it settling up. We'll settle up on points since they don't have it done.

23:15Hunter Clarke-Field:That's the only time through the week that I have to beg, remind, or nag. But the rest of the week, the kids can choose. Do I want to do like one little tour every day? Do I want to smash them onto Saturday morning? A lot of my kids do that. My youngest, he tends to do about half Saturday morning and then half Sunday morning. And so they've all learned a little bit about themselves in that way and how they like to use their time. And it's been very interesting.

23:41Katie Kimball:This is such a teacher system. Is it? Can you tell I'm an educator? Only a teacher would. It's like completely a teacher system. What about things like putting away the dishes and, you know, emptying and loading the dishwasher, which are daily things?

23:57Hunter Clarke-Field:Yes, that's a good question. We also have after meal chores and meals. So, okay. Yes, that's just for the weekly and monthlies. Each of my three older kids have one meal a week that they're responsible to make start to finish. So that's a whole thing. And then the youngest is the sous chef. So he's 11. So he's the sous chef for the 14-year-old brother. So he has to participate. If you don't make dinner, then you're part of one after-meal chore. And that's clearing and putting away the food, wiping all the surfaces, or doing the dishes. And then there's like a backup if someone's gone. So we have a different chart.

24:31Hunter Clarke-Field:I know it feels like a lot, but it's like literally two pieces of paper. So we do have a different chart for after-meal chores. And they're just assigned like one kid gets one chore the whole week and they just have to get it done.

24:41Katie Kimball:Everybody's thinking like, now I need four kids like Katie has. That's true. With two kids, they both have to do more chores. Don't have four kids just to have them do chores. Okay, well, that's amazing. I'm pretty sure, listeners, you can go back and listen to all that and kind of take notes. And, you know, check the transcript and just read it through. Right.

25:05Hunter Clarke-Field:Actually, something better. I will send them the whole chore system, actually, and a video explaining how I do it. Totally free. It's something we have set up because people asked for it. Like, please, we want your one piece of paper. So people can go to RaisingHealthyFamilies.com slash mindful podcast, and then they don't have to go back.

25:23Katie Kimball:They don't have to hit rewind. Oh, perfect. Perfect. Okay. RaisingHealthyFamilies.com slash mindful podcast. We didn't even get to teens. you actually make the case that teens that chores may matter even more than extracurriculars which is like a kind of like oh my goodness gasp idea I mean because when I think about the idea of you know saying oh no field hockey because you got chores to do like that sounds a little crazy from the perspective of you know being kind of an average teenage parent here so um tell me about that?

26:04Hunter Clarke-Field:Well, ideally you get to fit both. It's just that, you know, we don't want to put, I don't think, I don't think we should put our extra particulars above basic life skills. So there's, there was a study out of UCLA that found that a strong sense of purpose and meaning is the best way to significantly boost teen resilience and mental health. And I think a lot of parents, especially if you're parenting teens, you're like, oh man, like, what do I want most for my kids? I want them to be able to roll with the punches of life. So I think especially in the teenage years, moods and hormones are swinging and social life seems just so out of balance.

26:40Hunter Clarke-Field:And so it's really common to watch our teens sort of crumble. And we want them to be able to pick up those crumpled pieces and put them back together and feel stronger after adversity, right? That's the definition of resilience. So how do we get resilience? We need to have a strong sense of purpose and meaning. And sure, maybe field hockey can do that, commitment to a team. But I would posit that contributing to the family and having that purpose of like, I belong, I matter, I have ownership in this, I have tasks that I can complete are really, really important. And when I think about extracurriculars, whether it's competitive sports or theater, there's often a lot of competition between peers.

27:27And so it's impossible.

27:30Hunter Clarke-Field:We've tried with participation medals. Kids see right through them. They don't work. We've tried to make everyone be on the gold medal platform at the Olympics. But kids are like, that's not real. I know I didn't win the game. I don't want this participation medal, especially once they're teens. And so it's more volatile, right? Very, very good. It's very good to be competitive and be in extracurriculars However, at home, everyone can accomplish the task, if that makes sense. Everyone can authentically win, not a participation award, but if you are in charge of scrubbing the ring out of the bathtub, you will accomplish that.

28:12Hunter Clarke-Field:If you're a distracted kid, maybe it takes you 15 minutes and it could have taken you nine, but you're still going to get to the end of that task. And academics and extracurriculars, you don't always feel that sense of completion. And so I think that's one reason it's really, really important. Plus, especially as teens, like we feel this ticking timer as parents. Once the kids hit high school, like, whoa, like I don't have much longer.

28:36Katie Kimball:You know, they're about to launch. They need to learn all the skills. Like they need to learn how to do everything around a house and drive their car and change the oil and all the things, right?

28:48Hunter Clarke-Field:Yes. And so, you know, again, field hockey, I'm sure we get some skills there that we're using in adulthood, but not the practical stuff. And so when we're talking about skills at home, like cooking and cleaning. And by the way, some of the things you can't see, like organizing and using a calendar. Gosh, Hunter, I remember teaching my oldest son to like use his Google Calendar and actually remember to check it and actually remember to put things in it. It was like a three-year slog. I always say it was like I was in a jungle with a machete. Like, please use the calendar. You have to look at it or it won't work.

29:21Hunter Clarke-Field:Like it was so hard. But it's worth it because now he's a super organized 20-year-old young adult. He runs his own business. Like he's incredible, but it was hard work. And so if you're trying to do it all, like their senior year of high school, you're like, oh gosh, they need to learn all the things of adulthood. Like don't do that to yourself, right? Like start at age 5 and 8 and 12 and 14. And we just want to give them a little bit more all the time. So I think that building that stable foundation for a young adulthood is really, really important. We're just building this teens cook real food course and we ran it through 50 beta testing families.

30:01Hunter Clarke-Field:So I have heard thousands of pieces of feedback from families of teens. And one of the awesome benefits that we've seen of these parents working with their teens and our courses to teach them to cook is thinking out of the box, believe it or not. And so this is another, like there are these very hidden benefits sometimes. It's not all practical. So they're thinking out of the box. They're going beyond the recipe in the kitchen where they can start to experiment and make things up and to take a recipe an adult has written and tweak it yourself, super empowering for teens. And so the parents are saying, this is incredible to watch them begin to feel that sense of responsibility and ownership.

30:45Hunter Clarke-Field:And I think it's an analogy for life too. If we can get our kids to think out of the box, to not just follow the recipe that someone else gives them and to be able to problem solve and to be able to kind of make their own path. Wow. What a gift.

31:02Katie Kimball:Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcast right after this break.

31:08Hunter Clarke-Field:We're leaving today and entering a world of Mickey Mouse waving, princess meeting and greeting, lightsaber clashing, the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror dropping, banshee, Flying! Space Mountain launching. Galaxy rewinding. What's the whole death of galaxy rewinding? Fireworks igniting.

31:30Katie Kimball:World of Other Worlds. For whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on Earth. Walt Disney World Resort. Yeah, you have to improvise pretty often, I think, in cooking. So that would be a good thing for teens to have to do, would be cooking or meal prep and stuff like that. What do you say about, you know, sometimes we get, I get questions from parents about things like cleaning their room. And like, for me, I feel like I don't care that much about, like I let them have their room and it's actually turned out like they end up, like I've always had the attitude, like it's their room.

32:16Katie Kimball:But in the sample size of my two kids, which is not very big, to be sure, it's turned out now that they generally like to keep their rooms clean. Like, it will get through, it'll have some messy times, but they'll make it clean. But I could not care less. Like, they can do what they want to do. where do you land on like is there a benefit for a parent making sure their kids clean their room and adding that into the list of things that parents are caring about because I feel like I don't know it does I just close the door you know it does not affecting me what do you think

32:56Hunter Clarke-Field:I'm probably somewhere right in the middle of the extremes because I know there are parents who go in and clean their kids rooms and put things away and throw things away I mean I've heard from friends of some of my kids were like, oh, like my mom threw stuff away in my room last night and she got my orchestra music or something. And I'm like, oh, your mother touched your stuff. Like what? So to me, that's one extreme. The other extreme is literally like, you know, don't do anything. I'm probably right in the middle. I mean, I do ask my kids to wash their sheets at least once a month to try to keep some semblance of cleanliness.

33:30Hunter Clarke-Field:You have boys.

33:31Katie Kimball:See, my girls, they do that. They care.

33:35Hunter Clarke-Field:Yes. But yes, I don't have to tell my girl a thing about her room. In fact, her room teaches me how she's doing because the more messy her room gets and the more days in a row she goes without making her bed, I know her stress level is raising. Yeah. Yeah. She's feeling overwhelmed. And her room tells me. Yeah. With the boys, it's different. So, I mean, we have certain standards. I need to be able to walk to my 11-year-old's bed to tuck him in without slipping on a poster in the middle of the hardwood floor. but yeah my oldest is super messy I think so I definitely it did not require um and it did not work the way it did with your girls but like we try right he's still a work in progress his brain won't be fully formed for another five years till he's 25 right and so well he's gonna move out too

34:25Katie Kimball:so you get to kind of see what happens in the experiment as far as in yeah as far as what will happen to your own house.

34:34Hunter Clarke-Field:I know. I mean, but what I feel really good about launching him into the world because he does know how. He has the skills. It's up to him whether he chooses to use it. And I think that to me, that's like the big mindset shift into parenting teens. And I don't know if you found this, but parenting little kids, it's much more like a little bit of a dictatorship where you're above, they're below, you're teaching them stuff, you're telling them what to do. and yes, you want to gradually release the responsibility, but once they're teens, you're getting closer to being on even ground, not quite, because I think we still need to make sure we keep those boundaries so the teens know that they have someone setting boundaries and pulling for them, but they have a lot more room to make choices.

35:16Hunter Clarke-Field:They need that. They need to make choices. A lot of disciplinary decisions are more of a conversation rather than the speech on the soapbox. And I think that's really important. I think that helps. That's part of the release responsibility is we have to release our thinking and teach the teens how to think. So like I said, I know my oldest has the skills. He may not use them often, but that's okay. He's really competent.

35:46Katie Kimball:He can make a meal. He can make a meal from start to finish. So that's good I mean that's more than probably a lot of a lot of kids can do I mean from my from what I hear from my kids um it sounds like sounds like more and and he probably eats vegetables my my kids were they were like I don't know they were it was funny because they they we roast broccoli you know we just olive oil and salt and pepper and roast broccoli it's really delicious I mean you probably know like roasted broccoli when you get that you know that browning oh god so good. And they love it. And their friends are like, are you kidding me?

36:24Katie Kimball:Like you, I don't know, it's just kind of amazing. Okay. So to go on, what about the idea? I just want to kind of poke a hole. Like, what about the idea for parents, like where they say, like, it's just faster if I do it myself, right? How do we work with that impulse without shaming ourselves and without kind of abandoning the big picture of like, let's get the kids involved?

36:47Hunter Clarke-Field:Yeah, I mean, I know, Hunter, that you're all about mindfulness. And I think that's exactly what it takes is, you know, the philosophy of it's faster and easier to do it myself is very much our knee-jerk reaction. And it's very true in the moment. But if we can take a half-second pause and be mindful about our parenting, that it's better to choose the long easy and the short hard than the short easy, which creates the long hard. So let me unpack that. You know, when you make decisions that make today very easy, that's the kind of stuff that makes your kid's young adulthood very hard, right? That's when the boulder of all the responsibilities at once come crashing down.

37:27But if you can take that half second and think, oh, okay, it is faster and easier today if I do it myself.

37:34Hunter Clarke-Field:but if I can slow down today, it will be easier both for my parenting and for my child's growth, development, mental health, et cetera, in the long run, if I can pass some of these skills on. And so I think that's like the mindset shift that would be really super helpful for parents. I was just reading some of our beta tester feedback and I loved this. This mom says, I'm realizing as we go is that these are skills to be used continually. You know, she said at first I was like, okay, let's get through this class. Let's like get our A in learning this and we'll move on. And she's like, no, they're going to come in progress slowly over time.

38:18Hunter Clarke-Field:So she's like, we peeled potatoes on Saturday. We peeled carrots on Sunday. And she could see already that that practice was becoming more second nature for her son. And so she's becoming more relaxed, which I love. Like that's another word for kind of just being that mindful mom. And she's saying I can see now that teaching the skill in the first place with a video is just that seed. And then it allows me to be more of that long-term teacher. And I just thought that was so, so special to like, I could almost see her household, like becoming this beautiful classroom of just, we're learning a skill today, but we're going to use it over and over both in high school and in life.

38:59Hunter Clarke-Field:So it allowed her to be like, oh, I can just kind of let things happen, right? And I'm just the person who sort of nudges the ball. Like, yep, let's just push that ball forward just a little. Instead of like, I'm the person who's like, I'm going to take the ball from here. I'm going to put it at the end. I win the game. I'm done. So it really is a slower, more relaxed approach to parenting when you think about the many years your kids have with you and the fact that we just want to keep cycling these many, many different skills, both soft and hard skills, through their lives. Yeah.

39:29Katie Kimball:So you're taking the time to invest in the skills now, investment in some practices, et cetera, and then that will pay off in the long run. I mean, I can see how that happened. But what about for the parents who, let's just imagine a parent who has teens now, maybe 14 and they have not had their kid do any chores. Their kid has never cleaned a bathroom. What how do how do you start? How do you make it start to happen so they learn these skills?

40:04Hunter Clarke-Field:Yeah well it's never too late right it's never too late and so I think especially if you got a 14 year old right on the edge of high school the end of middle school it's actually a great time to to pass some of that ownership. So I would recommend a parent in that situation or really any parent of a teenager who's never asked this question to ask, what is a part of adulthood you're looking forward to, to your teen? And I think you'll do a lot more learning than teaching in that one, but see how your child or your teenager is thinking about the future or not, because that's gonna really play a role into how you can motivate them.

40:44Hunter Clarke-Field:If they are thinking about adulthood in any way, that's great. Like now you're just the skier behind the boat, like grab on and go for the ride. You know, you say, oh, great. Like, I'm so glad you're looking forward to adulthood. Let's talk about some of the skills that adults use every day that you might not have yet. And we'll talk about how I'd love to help you build those skills, right? Super easy. If they're not thinking about adulthood, then it's like now you just need to go through the next month and start asking more questions right like you know or even telling stories right like I when I went to college it was so hard for me because I had no idea how to shop for groceries and I just realized do you know how to shop for groceries you know and just like ask them instead of telling them I'm about to teach you how to shop for groceries right and so we hope we hope to get their engagement I think in that way um and then And then just choosing, I would say, just choose one skill, one responsibility, whether it's cleaning, organizing, packing your own lunch.

41:45Hunter Clarke-Field:You know, just like you kind of have to look at your life and think, what's something that I am doing for my teenager that perhaps I should not be, you know, and just pick one and try to pass that on. I think I said earlier, the system is different than the logistics. And so make sure you don't mix those up. You know, you do need to teach them how to do the thing. and then you need to help them get the system to do the thing. And those can be two very, very different mental skills. But I think modeling our adult thinking is really good.

42:17Katie Kimball:Can you give me a, for example, on that one? Yeah.

42:20Hunter Clarke-Field:Oh, like how they're different?

42:21Katie Kimball:Yeah. Sure.

42:22Hunter Clarke-Field:So the process of taking care of one's backpack, right? I don't know, like our teenagers don't use their lockers. So their backpacks are huge and heavy and they're full of stuff every day. Some teens have naturally figured that out. Let's say your teen hasn't. They're constantly losing stuff and you are the one organizing their folders still, right? So then you need to teach the process by talking out loud your thinking and say, this is what I've been doing for you, et cetera, et cetera. I pull out the papers that you don't need. Those go into the recycle bin. I've been trying to check if you have tests, and I put those on top.

43:01Hunter Clarke-Field:Ideally, hopefully parents aren't actually doing that for their teens anymore because now that I say it, I'm like, oh, that really sounds like something that you might do for your 10-year-old maybe. But that's the thing. Sometimes we look around and we're like, oh my gosh, I have definitely been doing this for too long. No guilt, no shame. We all do it. It's because we don't always step back and get the 30 ,000 foot view. So that's the logistics. But then the system is, when do you do that thing? Right? Because they might know how to sort and organize their backpack, but they have no idea if it should be done every day, once a week, once a month.

43:35Hunter Clarke-Field:Should they do it at school? You know what I'm saying? And so that's where the system is. Well, let's talk about when you should do this. And you can teach kids habit stacking, which is really powerful. So if it's the backpack, maybe every day when they walk in from school, they should take care of their backpack. Maybe they're a kid who would rather think about it at the end of the day. Oh, I'm going to bed, mom. and you could say, when you're heading to bed, would you like me to ask you about your backpack? And I want you to let me know when you want me to stop asking, right? See how it's gradual.

44:06Hunter Clarke-Field:So we stop doing it for them. We choose them how to do it. And then maybe we ask them, are you ready for school tomorrow? Or yes, exactly. That's a great word for it. So we have to teach the kid, again, both the logistics of doing the task and the system of thinking about how and when to do it. And I think, you know, those are two different things too, where like, especially if we think about the ages and stages, an elementary student probably can learn the logistics of cleaning out the backpack, cleaning the toilet, folding the socks, whatever it is, but they are definitely not going to think about it in the middle of playing.

44:41Hunter Clarke-Field:You know, so they need the parent to say, it's time to clean out your backpack. And then we start to release that. So that was the other thing I wanted to say is that modeling adult thinking by talking out loud is super powerful. Whether you're making like a purchasing decision, you know, you're on Amazon, your kid's in the room, start talking out loud. Hey, you know, I'm thinking about buying this thing, but I'm going to check my budget first and see if it fits. Or I'm going to read reviews. Like whatever you do to make that purchasing decision, they can't see your thoughts. So we got to model that thinking with finances, with calendaring, with the decisions that we make, even with our parenting.

45:21Hunter Clarke-Field:You know, sometimes I'll go meta on parenting and say, guys, you know, parenting is really hard. I'm not exactly sure what the right decision is here, but I'm going to do my best. You know what I mean? Just so that kids can start to have your voice in their head when they do become adults.

45:36Katie Kimball:And that's so authentic and real. You know, that kids really appreciate it when you're being a real person rather than like performing a role. I love this. Remember, you got those lists for how Katie does it at RaisingHealthyFamilies.com slash mindful podcast. That's so cool. And Katie is a podcaster. I've been on her podcast. Shout out the name.

46:02Hunter Clarke-Field:It's the Healthy Parenting Handbook.

46:04Katie Kimball:Healthy Parenting Handbook, lots of great stuff about, you know, nutrition and good foods and all that stuff. So for, I just like thinking about the, for the parents who are, you know, like, okay, if the little ones, you're going to get started, maybe re-listen and start from the beginning and think about it. For the parents who maybe have older kids and they want to start stop doing everything. What's one small compassionate step they could take this week?

46:36Hunter Clarke-Field:I mean, I do think I want to reiterate that question to ask your teenager, what are you looking forward to frame it positively about adulthood and start where they are. Um, but I, yeah, I think passing on one skill for us, like one, one of my favorites that always, that often surprises people is that my kids have been responsible for packing their own lunches since like third, fourth or fifth grade. Um, but it doesn't mean they do it every day. And so I just want to encourage parents that one of the beautiful things that you can do is it's a cycle. You know, we're not, we're not trying to offload tasks.

47:12Hunter Clarke-Field:We're not trying to like delegate all the tours to the kids so that we have an easier life. But a beautiful piece of your kids having responsibilities is that when you do it for them, it's the opposite of entitlement. It becomes a gift. So for example, my kids have been packing their own lunches forever. So when they have a super stressed out morning, maybe they overslept their alarm, literally happened this morning. Maybe they have an exam. I'll say, I'm going to make a yogurt with frozen fruit for you. And let me help you with lunch. And like the gratitude that comes out of like real genuine teenagers actually do show gratitude because they know what it's like to do the task, right?

47:53Hunter Clarke-Field:But if our kids and our teens don't do the tasks, then all the things we do for them, they're more likely to just feel entitled. And so I think like this is if we talk about life skills and there's the hands on, I can pack my lunch, I can clean a toilet, I can dust a coffee table is sure great wonderful but it's even more important that we're teaching them to like be truly human you know like your book raising good humans like we're teaching them to truly be part of a community and that means that there's some giving and so taking and some receiving and some gratitude and so it's such a gift for me that when I then do something for my child or my teen they get it they understand that it's a gift yeah so so beautiful that real appreciation yeah yeah

48:38Katie Kimball:Yeah, that's beautiful. All right. I love that. I think that's a great place. And Katie Kimball, thank you so much for what you do. And I'm picturing your sort of like strong, capable team of kids now. Thank you for coming on and sharing everything with us here at the Mindful Mama podcast. I really, really appreciate it.

49:00Hunter Clarke-Field:So happy to be here. Thank you.

49:06Katie Kimball:I hope you liked this episode. I think these are good strategies, right? Like she has great strategies to help you actually have your kids do some chores. And I love that she's going to share that whole list that she does. It's at, if you missed that URL, it's at raising Raising healthyfamilies.com slash mindful podcast. Raising healthyfamilies.com slash mindful podcast. Yeah, it's making me think differently about chores. And you know what, actually, so I recorded this conversation with Katie, and then I went into the house, and I mentioned that it would be nice for kids to maybe do some meals.

49:49Katie Kimball:And you know what, my 15-year-old volunteered to do a meal that night. She made us some fish tacos, which is great. I'm thrilled. It worked out really well. So it can happen. It's possible. There is hope on the horizon. So I hope you got some chores going for your kids and thinking about things that they can do. And yeah, I hope you get a lot out of this. Let me know what you think. I'm at mindfulmamamentor on socials and definitely share this one around because I think we could all use this kind of help and support. And I'm wishing you a great week. I'm wishing you some good hugs and some warm days, maybe, and fresh air and ease and peace and all that.

50:37Katie Kimball:Thank you so much for listening. Namaste.

50:50Hunter Clarke-Field:Rinse knows that greatness takes time, but so does laundry. So Rinse will take your laundry and hand deliver it to your door expertly cleaned. And you can take the time pursuing your passions. Time once spent sorting and waiting, folding and cueing, now spent challenging and innovating and pushing your way to greatness. So pick up the Irish flute or those calligraphy pens or that daunting Beef Wellington recipe card and leave the laundry to us. Rinse. It's time to be great.