How To Deal With Self-Hatred - Blaise Aguirre

27:23Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So because it is, you are so categorically certain that you're a mom and you've got like evidence that it is true. Like, I mean, there's just no quiz. You don't, like, what are you even talking about? That's not why I came to therapy. I came to therapy because am I a good mom? You know, should I be doing, you know, I get anxious about these things. That's what I came to do. And you're saying, am I? So what I'm saying is that for these kids who've only grown up with this construct of being flawed, this idea that they're not deserving of self-hatred and that they deserve love and that they deserve to be seen in a different way is as ludicrous to them as me challenging the idea that you're a mom.

28:16So when I started to work with these kids originally, these young people, teenagers at the time, said, no, you're wrong. Of course you're wonderful. And you're this awesome kid and you're talented. You're so kind and everything. It's like, stop, stop. That's so invalidating. It's just so painful. Stop. I want to talk about other things. I'm not going to talk about this. And it was as ludicrous as me challenging the idea that you're a mom. That is how embedded this construct is. I'm not talking about, sometimes I think I'm a mom and sometimes I don't. It's not intermittent. It's sort of like a sense of oneself.

29:00Wow. Okay. So if you were to think about, like, how could you convince me of my mom? That couldn't happen. So these kids told me that it couldn't happen. So I had to start off with, you know, to really, really think about, how am I going to create a wedge between this very painful and incorrect self-evaluation and the truth. Because I actually experienced a lot of love for these kids. You know, and I found them funny, and I found them sarcastic, and I found them quirky, and I found them introspective. And I thought like, wow, most people don't ever think about why they live. But people who die, who want to die, think about why they want to live, which is sort of, they're kind of interesting.

29:51Like, why aren't they seeing themselves the way that I do? And that's because that early messaging encoded the idea of flawedness. So I changed this to this idea that they learned how to hate themselves. In the same way that the reason you speak English as your first language is because you were born to English-speaking people. If we had plucked you out of your crib and put you in France, you'd be speaking French right now. So you had to learn how to hate yourself. But if you can learn the language of self-hatred, you can learn the language you can unlearn that language the second thing is this if you think about you talk about Thich Nhat Hanh what an incredible human being he was and you sort of aspire to live like that person and you sort of think what is the thing that those people do and you see their lives but then you say okay, who were my teachers?

30:52the bullies the critics, are they the representatives of the kind of people I want to be when I grow up? Do I listen to those narratives? Do I listen to those teachings and say, those are the correct teachings? Because what that's going to do is teach you to be like them, like the hurtful people they were, like the unloving people they were. And so I say, okay, so you've been taught something that wasn't true. And by the way, I don't think that a parent says, okay, I've got a great child, and my second child, I want them to hate themselves.

31:32Hunter Clarke-Fields:Of course not, yeah. And it's not, you know, so I'm not saying like a parent has done this. I'm just saying like that there's things. The parents got to have so much suffering that is just, it's like perpetuated through generations. I mean, it's just that they can't handle it. And maybe they don't know how to validate the child. They don't know how to soothe the child. Yeah, criticism was a language they knew, probably, and they grew up with. Exactly, exactly. And one of the things I tell the kids is that you can never, ever, ever overcome self-hatred by hating someone else. You can never overcome blaming yourself by blaming someone else.

32:09It doesn't matter. You can't do it because hatred cannot heal hatred. So the thing that you have to work on is yourself. At the same time, understand that you learned how to hate yourself by the lessons that you were taught. You were taught that 2 plus 2 equals 5. And then at the end of the year, when you had to take the test, you wrote down 2 plus 2 equals 5. But it was an incorrect answer, because that's the way that you were taught. And you weren't old enough to be able to... I mean, we have to look at this through a four-year-old, five-year-old's eyes. You weren't old enough to be able to stand back and evaluate the lessons that you were learning.

32:52And you came to the conclusion that you were fundamentally flawed, that there was something fundamentally wrong with you, fundamentally unlovable about you. And so what other conclusion could you come if that was the only lesson that you were learning? Now, parents will sometimes say, but my other child doesn't feel this way. And there's a couple of reasons why their other child might not feel that way. And one is that they're not as sensitive. Two is that there may be one of the reasons, because a lot of the kids who come to my program have had similar kinds of backgrounds. But one of the reasons why not everyone develops self-hatred, even if there's some degree of self-criticism, is because there's always an adult, an important figure in their life who is able to listen and who is able to validate.

33:41I, you know, my mom was ultra sensitive, extremely validating. My father was a much more, a less emotionally sensitive person who was, you know, who was very critical. And I would imagine that if I hadn't had a mom who was listening to me, I mean, maybe I would have developed this form of self-hatred.

34:08Hunter Clarke-Fields:stay tuned for more mindful mama podcasts right after this break we know that chronic mouth breathing is bad in kids it can be associated with restless sleep daytime moodiness behavior challenges health concerns we want ourselves and our kids to be breathing through our noses at night we're thinking about food we're thinking about movement outdoor time, screen time, bedtime routines. This is an important part of thinking about our health is thinking about what's happening when we're sleeping. And a lot of parents don't realize that their kids are sleeping with their mouths open. There's a simple low-tech answer for this for families who care about healthy rhythms and nasal breathing and just being more intentional about your sleep habit.

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35:35Hunter Clarke-Fields:When kids sleep poorly, the whole family can feel it the next day. Muzzle sleep tape is a simple answer. Go to muzzlesleep.com and use the code mindful mama for 10 % off. That's muzzlesleep.com promo code mindful mama. Wow. I mean, it's so interesting to think about that. And then, you know, when you also, we talked about Thich Nhat Hanh, and it makes me think of in the Plum Village tradition, if you go on a retreat in that tradition, there's a meditation they do where you imagine your father and your mother as a four-year-old child, right? You imagine them as this innocent thing. And that's also something that you do as well, right?

36:19Hunter Clarke-Fields:With your patients is you invite them to imagine that time before they had learned this, that they had learned the self-hatred. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, you know, again, that in the days before this thought was very evolved in my head, and a patient would say, like, I hate my mother, I hate my father, they did these terrible things. You know, my inclination was to not validate the veracity of what they were saying, but just like, wow, that sounds like really painful. and I can imagine why you're so angry at your parents. And so that was a less evolved way of thinking about it. But then as I continued to think about this, then somebody was examining maybe the way in which they were treated.

37:09So I've had, I was thinking of one particular patient who had a very, very, very punitive mom. And as she was sort of seeing her mom as the person who taught her that she was not that worthy, I then started to ask, like, what was it like for your mom when she was five? You know, what was her family of origin like? And then she said, wow, I never thought about that, but she was horrifically punished and lots of consequences and always had to live up to an expectation that she couldn't. And she said, that's probably what my mom learned. That's how she learned how to parent. What other templates did she have for parenting other than that?

37:59And so she could have compassion for her mom while at the same time recognizing that what her mom did was painful and hurtful and critical. And she had a brother who just said, oh, mom's just being annoying. And it didn't impact the brother so much. But my patient also thought that the mom did, in fact, treat them differently. but that could also be because my patient was more sensitive. So it's a recognition that simply focusing on blame and simply focusing on cause, the fact that you know why you've got a flat tire doesn't mean that the tire is no longer going to be flat. Understanding cause doesn't change the factness of a situation.

38:51You still have to change the tire. It doesn't matter that you know that it was a now.

38:55Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, I was wondering, you know, you've worked with so many patients that are in some deep pain. I was wondering if maybe you could share a moment in your work where you saw somebody break through that self-hatred and begin to heal. I had, there was a patient who had wanted to do some work with me, but I was being told that she was not very motivated to do the kind of work that we were asking her to do. And she said, look, I don't buy this at all. I don't buy this at all, any of this work. And I don't see how you're ever going to convince me that I'm not a mom, that I'm worthy of love, that I shouldn't hate myself.

39:44And she said, but I think that, you know, I've heard that you're pretty good at this stuff. So I said, yeah, you know, it's what I do a little bit. So anyway, so she says, well, okay, start talking. And I said, no, you know what we're going to do? We're going to go outside. And McLean has this big campus in Belmont, Massachusetts. And I said, we're going to go and lie on the grass. And she said, this is the weirdest therapy session I've ever had. I said, well, tell me what you see. And she says, I see grass. So I said, okay, what else?

40:25And anyway, I mean, and she kept wanting to go back inside and do therapy or whatever it was. And I said, we're not going to do that until you tell me everything you see. You know, so by the end of it, we were, you know, like little broken pieces of leaves and little, you know, I don't know, like gnats flying around and little ants and little sticks and stones. and the breeze and the color of the green and that the green was changing and that, you know, there were different greens and all of that sort of stuff. And so then I asked her, how are you doing? And she says, yeah, I'm doing all right.

41:03She says, can we go and do therapy? I said, what do you need therapy for? And I said, you're much more settled now. And I said, you paid attention to something that was in this present moment, and your central nervous system settled. And in this present moment, there isn't snow on the ground. It's not wet. There's no car sounds around. But if you bring that from the past into the present, that you're adding elements that don't exist in the present moment. They're only existing inside your head. And you have carried a narrative that wasn't true into the present moment. And in this present moment, you are loved.

41:48And in this present moment, you are talented. And in this present moment, you are kind to your friends. And those things exist in this present moment. The things that you learned don't. I mean, they exist in the present moment in that you learned them, but they were just like false teachings. But if you start to pay attention and look more closely at the way that you interact with your friends, the kindness that you offer them, then you can see that you're not the worst person on the planet. I mean, you're pretty terrible, but not that bad. I have to be a little bit adolescent myself and a little bit sarcastic.

42:29But you're not going to say, you're the most wonderful human being ever. You're pretty bad. You're pretty bad. But you're not just so terrible, you know. And so it's this idea, and there was like, ah, kind of getting it. But it was just, it was a very irreverent kind of intervention that didn't have to do with me sitting in a chair, pondering what was going on. It was like, you know, let's connect with the moment.

43:02Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah. I mean, I know the power of those tools of becoming more present to just release and ground and have that relief of all those thoughts that may or may not be true that are plaguing you. How did this person come to, how did they continue with their healing? I mean, I need a little more. Yeah. Okay. So with that, then at least it opened up the idea that that creating, that sort of bringing into the present moment something that wasn't of this moment wasn't all that helpful to her. And by doing so, it was going to be impacting her work choices. It was going to be impacting her relationship choices.

44:05And why bring those things in into this present moment when they're not of this present moment? Even if I said, hey, there are only rocks in the garden, and she believes that to be true, but then we go outside and there's grass, to then say, wait a second, you told me there were rocks. You were not telling me the truth. I say, exactly, exactly. I was teaching you something that wasn't true, and you believed it to be true, but now you see reality as it is, that you are kind, that you are compassionate, that you are more deserving. And so what I want you to do is I want you to start every single time you notice a critical thought like, you are lazy, you are mean, to say, I am bringing in a narrative that was taught to me into the present moment, and it's actually not true.

45:02So you've got to now start to challenge and erode the sort of false truth of teaching. And then you've got to act with more self-compassion so that when you say, I don't deserve getting that job. I don't deserve getting into that college. I don't deserve to date that person. It's to notice that, to say that that is not of the present moment. that is something I have dragged from the past that was taught to me by hurtful teachers, and I am not going to believe it. So it's slowly chipping away at the certainty of that truth, or that truth in quotation marks, because it's not true. In the same way that you being a mom is true, and that cannot be eroded, that you are lazy, that you're not worthy, that you're flawed, that you're broken, that you're stupid.

46:00are falsehoods that you've carried for such a long time. And then I'd stay at it. I'd stay at it every single week. It's like, okay, we're going to talk about this again. We're going to talk about this again. Because those false truths have then led you to do behaviors that you're not very happy with. Maybe you dated a drug dealer and you're very ashamed of that, but you then concluded that by doing so, it was further evidence that you were this broken person. And we're going to stop that.

46:32Hunter Clarke-Fields:You're interrupting these patterns and building these new patterns again and again. I think what's so beautiful about what you're describing, Blaze, is that it all really starts with deep listening. With, I see you, I hear you, and I see that must be so painful. And that I understand why you think the way that you do. Like, it makes perfect sense to me. I mean, you're wrong, but it makes sense. You see, I can be a little bit more irreverent. Once you feel listened to, it's okay. Then you can do some challenging. you know i think that i think that i think that you know i was gonna ask about parents who may be starting to see their child sort of go down this path that maybe are not at the place where they need to go to mclean hospital but i think that um we're hearing all the tools here right we're hearing like listen we're hearing be present we're hearing um you know challenge maybe that perception of like, where did you learn this?

47:40Hunter Clarke-Fields:And looking back to when you were loved, all of these beautiful things. But I'm also thinking about there are parents. I work with parents and I know that you cannot give what you do not have, right? And so I know there are so many parents who want to just love their kids, but they may be struggling with that self-hatred themselves. So if there's a parent maybe who's listening right now who's struggling with this and they don't feel like maybe they deserve help or they feel like change isn't possible, what would you want them to know? That's such an incredibly brilliant question. I haven't been asked that question before and I haven't actually thought about it.

48:23So I'm going to have to answer it. You know, earlier on we said, you know, like, okay, how am I going to answer, you know, questions that maybe come up. Okay. So, so that, that is really, really fascinating. Um, because, okay. So one of the people I've worked with the longest, um, I met her when she was 17 and now she's a 33 year old mom with three of the most stunning children. Um, uh, she's not my patient anymore. And she keeps sending me photos of her kids. It's like really annoying. And I just said like, okay, like, I don't care that they're like 15 and graduating now. It's fine. But she stays in touch.

48:58And one of the things that, the reason she didn't want to have kids in the first place is because she said, you know, like, if I hate myself so much, how can I bring a child into a world where I hate myself? And as she started to work and just like have more self-compassion, then, you know, then she was certainly able to give that love to her kids. And her kids, I mean, you know, she's from the Midwest and she comes with her husband once a year to come and wash the Red Sox and she stops by and the kids just adore her, you know. And it's just so wonderful to see. And I, you know, I would have to think about this parent who has deep self-hatred, who has a child, and they're doing the very best that they can to love that child.

49:51And I really believe that if there is any sprinkling of love in the interaction with that child, that that parent does have love inside of them.

50:05Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, where does it come from if not? Exactly, because you cannot do things that you're not capable of doing. I cannot fly. I don't have wings. I mean, I could want it, but I just don't, I'm not capable of that. Like I cannot do something that I'm not capable of doing. I cannot experience something I'm not capable of experiencing. You know, I cannot experience, you know, ultraviolet light. I mean, you know, I'd have to wear goggles or something like that. I cannot experience certain sounds. You cannot experience that which is not within you to experience. And if you experience that love, that is a real moment.

50:47And that is within you. And if it's within you, it's within you for you too. And it's just like, and that loving your child is fundamentally an act of self-compassion, even if you don't see it that way. And it's just a tiny kindness towards yourself. And I think that that can grow. And I just, you know, I'm just sending a big psychic hug of Zoom loving compassion hug to any parent who really doesn't like themselves very much. And I think I also want any parent that really is self-critical to just make a distinction between being frustrated with oneself about like, oh, you know what? I didn't really do very well with my child and make some self-critical statement.

51:35The single best thing you can do in those moments is to go back to your kid and recognize that you got it wrong. It is so powerful when you say, you know what, I yelled at you and that is not representative of who I am and I was wrong in that moment. Now, I don't like that behavior. It doesn't mean that, you know, you're getting to drive the car. You still aren't allowed to drive the car, but I, you know, that is not a manifestation of who I am. And you can be self-critical about that and you can say like, go count and do better, but really to just sort of think about who taught you as a parent to hate yourself, who were your teachers, and that you don't have to continue teaching that to your own children.

52:17But there's something inside of you, you know, that we weren't born hating ourselves, we had to learn, but love comes much more naturally to the human heart than hatred does, and you're You can't give love to your child that you don't have.

52:36Hunter Clarke-Fields:So you got it in there. That's so beautiful. Thank you so much. Blaise Agar's book is I Hate Myself, Overcome Self-Loathing, and Realize Why You're Wrong About You. And you can get it anywhere books are sold. Do they have an audiobook version as well? Well, you know, this is breaking news. I just literally heard from my publisher that May 27th, the audiobook has been complete, and they're just doing the final audio files. So, yeah. So it'll be out by the time this is out, because we record way ahead of time. So it's out. There is an audiobook version, my friend. That's so cool. Blaze, thank you so much.

53:22Hunter Clarke-Fields:Thank you for, I mean, I guess I appreciate that your curiosity in the way you approach this to have this breakthrough in addressing self-hatred and seeing that it's learned and believing these people. I think that's really indicative of like a really beautiful, curious mind. And I'm so glad that you're practicing mindfulness to ground you so you can keep doing this amazing work, helping so many people. I think that it's having ripple effects throughout the world. So I really appreciate you coming on and I really appreciate everything that you do. Yeah, no, I mean, I really, I mean, thank you.

54:08And thank you for asking important questions, ones that I hadn't sort of considered. And I think it's part of the problem is because it hasn't been talked about. Like there's lots of things I haven't thought about. And, you know, to bring beginner's mind to every situation and just like learn anew is just like, it's glorious. It's really, you know, glorious. And I also want to just like, you know, I recognize how difficult mindfulness can be. You know, when your house is on fire, when your kid is sick, and I am telling you to breathe in and be all sort of calm. And you're like, what the heck? I'm leaving right now.

54:48I'm going to this school to pick up my kid. I'm calling 911. And it can feel sometimes a little bit like, you know, okay, all you people who have all your lives sorted out, you know, practicing mindfulness. And so it doesn't have to be about any kind of particular practice, but you have every single time you sit down with your child. I mean, if you think, I'm not going to go to meditate, I'm not going to breathe, I'm not going to sit in the morning, I'm not going to do any of those things. But there's two times, like you have to eat, like you can eat mindfully, but you can listen mindfully. And if your practice is listening mindfully to your child, it's probably the most beautiful practice that there is.

55:33You don't even have to breathe. You don't even have to pay attention to your breath. But you can pay attention to listening and to be so present. That's the best practice.

55:45Hunter Clarke-Fields:I agree. I agree. The child is the object of your mindfulness. And what an incredible gift. That's what your kid needs more than all the lessons and the trips to Disney that you could ever do, is your presence really there and listening. Exactly. And that's the one that they're going to remember more than anything else. They will not remember all the quote-unquote teachings. They'll remember that you listened. Well, Blaise Agar, this has been so wonderful. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you for coming on. Thank you.

56:23Hunter Clarke-Fields:Wow, wow, wow. What a powerful episode, right? I think that that was such a huge takeaway for me that like this is something people learn. It's not innate to us. And, you know, do we want to take these teachers on? So, so powerful. What a message. I think this is so important. So I hope this episode has helped you. Please share it. You never know who could use an episode like this in their life to help start the healing or continue the healing of what's happening in their lives. So please do share it. Let me know what you think. I would love to know. You can find me on the socials at Mindful Mama Mentor.

57:08Hunter Clarke-Fields:And yeah, I'd love to hear what's happening for you with this. And I know it's summer and I hope it's a lovely summer for you. But if it's a challenging summer for you, because life is always lifing, isn't it? Oh, boy. Yeah, I'm wishing you the best. We are getting ready to bring Maggie to college. Oh, my gosh. So crazy. I can't believe it. And yeah, it's it's a big deal and a big change in my life. So if you're going through to some big changes too. I'm right there with you. Yeah, I hope this episode has made your life a little bit better. And I will talk to you again next week. And I'm wishing you hugs and ease and all those good things and focusing on what nourishes you this week.

58:02Hunter Clarke-Fields:Take care. Namaste.

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