How to Raise Secure Kids (Even If You Didn’t Grow Up Secure) - Adam Lane Smith

22:01This has made me frustrated. The situation has made me frustrated, but I want us to work together to fix this. Here's my concern. Here's the lesson I need to teach you. here's what we can do to get you that lesson. It is not, I am going to inflict a punishment, so I feel better. It is, what process is actually going to help you learn this lesson going forward so that when you're 45, this lesson still sticks with you and you're a good father or a good mother or a good wife, a good husband, a good business person, whatever it is, how do I train you for the adult you're going to become? All of those pieces are how you build secure attachment.

22:35Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, in your child. I love that. I mean, that interest in your child is great. And And for the, just to add to your, you know, when they bring you a picture. I was once a, just as an odd piece of training, I was trained in, I was an art teacher. I have a master's in art education. Really great way, by the way, to talk to your kids about a painting, drawing, anything they bring to you is just to kind of describe it first. oh, I see this big piece of yellow here, and it looks like this is a figure here, and I'm seeing this. Tell them what you're seeing. It gives you something to talk about, and they love that reflection to have it seen, to see it through your eyes too, and then also ask those questions.

23:24Hunter Clarke-Fields:They're really great. Even grown-up artists love that, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a great way to talk about kind of anything. I mean, in some ways, it's like, yeah, everything someone brings us to see, we want to see it, and if we can see it out loud that really is is a lovely effect okay but if we're so we can we want to show this interest in our kids we want to want our eyes to light up when we see them we want to give them that attention that they crave right like in some ways i think attention really is synonymous with love if you if you give something enough attention you will love it you know if you if you give attention into a tree in your yard every day for two years, you will grow to love this tree, I'm sure.

24:10Hunter Clarke-Fields:And the same thing with the things you love. That is the way we sort of show our love. So what if we are inside, we've had this damage from our upbringing or from the suffering of our own parents where they weren't able to show us the attention. And we have an internal recoiling from different behaviors our kids have, or we have an internal reactivity, the temper perhaps, or we have the judgments and the inner dialogue that may be kind of toxic that's springing up. Those things from our own insecure attachments, how do we go about healing those? I love that question. And if I could make one very gentle correction to the language, I will.

25:02Is that okay?

25:02Hunter Clarke-Fields:Sure. Yeah, yeah. One very gentle correction I'd like to make is a lot of people use the healing language. And that's because here, especially in the West, we use a very medical model for mental health and well-being. I don't like the healing language because what it says is you are wrong and you are sick and we have to fix you. And what we have to do is get you to zero somehow because you're in the negatives. What I tell people is these are adaptations. These are not brokenness. It's not ugliness or sickness. You have adapted correctly and successfully to an environment that required you to have a temper.

25:34Anger is never a primary emotion. Anger is a secondary emotion. You are hurt, sad, or scared first, and then you don't believe other people will care about your feelings and they'll keep hurting you. So then you become angry to make them care. And if in childhood your caregivers didn't care and they programmed you to automatically assume no one cares, now you're yelling at your spouse or your children and they haven't even had a chance to care or not and they don't understand why you're attacking at all. You launch into anger without meaning to. That's the sign of number one, a pattern that needs to be broken so that you can adapt successfully to your new environment.

26:10And number two, it's a nervous system that isn't regulated enough to recognize the new environment is any different. As you calm and regulate your nervous system better, your nervous system begins to detect a different environment. And then you gain new skills to adapt and manage that new environment. And then you have new experiences that confirm these people do care and that remaps your neural pathways, at least with this group that says they care. I don't have to use that old tool over there, right? The fire ax on the wall, break in case of fire. I don't have to break that. There is no fire.

26:41I'm okay. I can actually bring my primary emotions and say, I'm really sad right now. Can we work on this together? And they'll actually care. That's the difference. Regulating your nervous system, learning your skills, adapting differently through experiences, and then changing your brain pathways. This is possible for every human on the planet. You are designed to do this. It's not a strange, exotic thing that some people can do. This is a basic human feature. Everyone listening to this right now is capable of this. It won't happen through insight. It doesn't usually happen through talk therapy.

27:13It doesn't happen. I love podcasts. I have a podcast of mine. It doesn't happen through podcasts and listening or reading books. Those work on the prefrontal cortex, which is developed incorrectly for healthy relationships, I will say, in insecurely attached people. And it goes away the moment the amygdala detects threats, perceived threats, even hallucinations. It goes away. So all that training you've done on the prefrontal cortex goes away. This is why insight doesn't work. This is why therapy, you can be in it for 10, 20 years and achieve no differences because the part you're training goes away when you're under stress.

27:45You have to have skills, nervous system regulation, and new experiences. That retrains the amygdala. It retrains the limbic system, reroutes neuropathways, and keeps your prefrontal cortex engaged. Again, this is a basic feature for all human beings.

27:58Hunter Clarke-Fields:I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I feel like that's an incredible argument for a mindfulness practice because you're doing a practice. You're working with your nervous system as it is in whatever state it is every day, and you're practicing to not react to it. You're practicing just to observe it, to see it, and say, okay, this is happening, but I'm just still going to sit here and I'm not reacting to it, right? So you're building that muscle of pause. What are other ways that people can work with that in ways that are practiced, not just thinking or learning? With mindfulness, especially.

28:34Yeah.

28:35Hunter Clarke-Fields:Or practice with learning that regulation, you know, aside from mindfulness. 100%. We know that our nervous system is most responsible for the way our brain is functioning at the time. So if your nervous system is dysregulated, your logical left side brain is decreased in functioning, including your language centers, your focus areas, actually front left side. A lot of people think they have ADD or ADHD symptoms because they're chronically deficient on the left side from emotional escalation, from attachment issues, right? So fixing that actually can restore a lot of executive functioning and memory for people who do or don't have ADHD or ADD, right?

29:12Massive thing, language centers, math, science, reading, reading comprehension, language, linguistics, even speaking. Broca's area is over here for speech. So all of those decrease the more stressed out we become with our nervous system. We know you must regulate first. Regulating allows your logical brain to re-engage, and that's where mindfulness can come in. At this point, you say, wait a minute. My prefrontal court system back online. Wait a minute. I know my patterns. I know what those are, and I know what I should be saying instead. I have a script for that. Let me pause and reflect, and then here's what happens next.

29:43I don't just reflect inside myself, and everything's better. I pause and reflect even out loud to the other person and share the context of what I'm experiencing with them, and they say, oh, that's why you look angry. You're actually just scared. I thought you were mad at me. No, no, no. Mom's not mad. I'm really nervous right now. And I know my face looks bad right now, but I'm actually really nervous. I would love some help getting through this. Can we solve this problem together? And they're like, they're waiting for you to explode. And they say, yeah, we could fix it. Okay. Let's do something new.

30:15Why don't you tell me a little bit more about your side of it before I react to anything? Tell me a little bit more about what's going on for you, kid. And the kid, okay. And they share more context and your nervous system begins to settle and you go, oh, wow, I just learned something I didn't know before. They see you regulating, they begin regulating. Now you're having a conversation and now you're collaboratively solving. Two things happen here. One, you have an experience that retrains both of you to believe that you can work together effectively and shows you that you care about each other.

30:44And number two, that releases a cascade of bonding hormones. One is vasopressin, which releases when we solve problems and overcome stress with somebody else. It makes our brain trust them more, so it buffers us against future fights and arguments. And number two is oxytocin, the bonding hormone for snuggles and happiness and closeness, safety. We feel like they care. Beautifully, oxytocin helps release GABA, G-A-B-A, which suppresses cortisol for the rest of the day in the future. So our day becomes easier to bear and our stress load goes up. The magic here is that if you do this with three, four, five people in your life, your friends, your partner, your kids, your parents.

31:21If you can do it with these people, you are buffered with so much oxytocin that it becomes contagious and you are now massively affectionate with others. You have vasopressants. Your system says, I don't have to be afraid. I have a tribe of people who love me and solve problems with me. It stimulates the release of GABA, so your system suppresses cortisol releases in the future. It keeps your nervous system calmer going forward biochemically for you, so you don't have to constantly try to calm and manage it. And then everything shifts. Your immune system gets better. Your fertility gets better.

31:52Your estrogen or your hormones improve if you're a woman or testosterone for a man, if it was down from chronic stress. We see 30 % chronic testosterone decreases for men in the West. It gets resolved quite often when we resolve their chronic stress issues. So there's that. But women with chronic migraines, headaches, headaches, cancer risks, heart attacks, stroke, insulin resistance, autoimmune disorders, all of these begin to show massive improvement as our relationships improve and we get more oxytocin in our system the way we are supposed to be. Most of us are surviving in a damaging state to adapt to a harsh experience from growing up, and we haven't adapted to a healthier experience, so our system is running in survival mode, prioritizing short-term survival while destroying long-term longevity and well-being in us and in our families.

32:40So making this switch improves your medical health as well.

32:46Hunter Clarke-Fields:Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break. As we get older and our kids get older, keeping up with the schedules can be so hard. My daughter Sora has been doing the tech for the play, Mama Mia. There's a lot to do and we're busy and that's why I really love the Kozilla calendar plus two. You get your calendars, your to-do lists, and your reminders all in one place and not in, yes, it's in your phone in your pocket, but it's on in a centralized place in your house. So it's a beautiful frame. It has a calendar sync to keep everybody's calendars up to date, real time, avoiding conflicts.

33:31Hunter Clarke-Fields:And we don't have to like crane our necks down and pull out these objects to check it. We can all do all the planning and we can do event creation all in one place together. It even has a reward system to encourage kids independence and meal planning. I mean, it's great and it really supports kids who are developing independence and you can have independence without having the, you know, in your pocket. Kids with ADHD can benefit from structured routines and you get this large display that is really easy to use. Seamless, easy, syncing. There's also flexible size options. Really a different way to do it to make things simpler, to really reduce the mental load in the house, to manage schedules and encourage kids' responsibility and just coordinate family life So it is less stressful.

34:28Hunter Clarke-Fields:Go to kozilla.com and use the code HUNTER to get$30 off your first order at checkout. That's C-O-Z-Y-L-A dot com to get$30 off your first order with the promo code HUNTER. So I love all the benefits of that switch that you described there. It's so, so beautiful. And it's really inspiring. And what I'm hearing you say is the idea of we're practicing this basically in the everyday life of our family. We're saying, okay, I'm maybe in some time alone to reflect. I'm reflecting on this is how I have been reacting. This is not being very helpful for my family. It's not helpful for me. I'm gonna try next time I'm gonna try to instead say what I'm feeling and try to say what I'm feeling underneath that and remember that kind of in that that moment you know in that sort of stressful moment and and do you have any tips for people to to remember that because we know right we know that you know we flipped our lid.

35:45Hunter Clarke-Fields:The prefrontal cortex isn't necessarily online. These are things we may plan and think about ahead of time. But then to get this practice started can be very hard, right? We sometimes remember, oh, I just yelled and I wanted to say that other thing. And then we haven't, right? So what do you say about the getting started piece for people? Absolutely. This is what I'll say to that. I've observed with most of my female clients, with my sister, my wife, all of the women that I know, women are not supposed to be as alone as they are today. Oh, God, none of us are. Right, no. But women especially, one thing I've noticed is so many women today feel utterly alone in every challenge they face.

36:29And that is wrong. That is opposite of how our species is built and designed for our nervous system's function. So many women say, how am I going to remember to do different? How will I remember how to use a different script? How will I talk in a way that makes them feel better without them knowing what I'm doing? How can I make everyone feel safer? How can I improve? And that's the challenge right there is so many women have been conditioned to believe no one is going to help them. The reason we want secure attachment is not to have a gold star and yay, you're secure, right? Then you get access to like a private club or that's not the target.

37:03The goal is not secure attachment. Secure attachment is a doorway you go through to achieve collaboration with other human beings. Collaboration with other human beings is the target. Collaboration is also how we begin to get started. We go to our families and we say, listen guys, I have discovered something that relationships are different than I believed. And I've been doing everything alone and probably you guys have been too. And we're all fighting and I don't like that anymore. I'm going to be making some changes. And what I need from you guys is to remind me, if you see me go here, I need to pause and come here.

37:34You don't have to regulate me. That's my job. But if you see me go up, let me know that you're seeing me. Hey, are you doing okay? Mom, are you all right? Are you calm? Is something wrong? You look very upset. And I will catch it and I will calm and regulate myself. I may need to step away, but I'm going to bring it down here. And then I'm going to ask you more questions. What I need from you is number one, help me catch it if I don't see it. And number two, when I come back, I will be asking questions. I need you to answer those questions so that we can work together. All together, we'll be building a different family.

38:04Does this work for you guys. You probably don't understand it yet, but give me a yes or no if you're bought in. And then you start building collaboratively. You can do this with your husband. You can do this with your best friend, with your sister, with your mom, the people around you, you collaborate. We are not meant to do this alone. That is not how attachment forms in childhood, and it's certainly not how it fixes in our life. So get help from somebody you trust and begin rebuilding a relationship explicitly, out loud. Don't do it and hope that they see it.

38:31Hunter Clarke-Fields:Oh, even with your kids. I love this because this is like one of those like, duh, things, you know, where it's so obvious that we should have thought of this. But those are always the best insights where it's like, yes, of course, we should just involve them in the process. That makes so much sense, Adam. And I'm really going to be taking this with me to heart. I'll even give you a better example of that. I've been in a very, very intense work period lately, the last couple of last two months, I'd say. And what I usually do is have dates with my individual children, my wife, we call them dates, just one-on-ones to make sure it's not just a group of family and they never see dad one-on-one.

39:09We actually engage one-on-one. So I'm interested in connecting with them. And they feel that. And my oldest daughter, she's just turned eight years old. I mentioned to her the other day, she was brushing her teeth and I walked by and I looked her and said, you know, it feels like we haven't had a date in a while. And she said, yeah, we really haven't. It's been like two and a half months. She's counting, obviously. And I said, oh yeah, we got to fix that soon. And then something else pulled my attention. And I, I got dragged off into a different conversation really quick. It happens when you got five kids, but she came back to me even just this morning, right before this podcast.

39:38And she said, dad, you mentioned the other day, we haven't had a date in a while. She's eight. We haven't had a date in a while. Do you think we can fix that? And I went, oh shoot. Yeah. That got interrupted, it, didn't it? Yeah, we can do that. I said, sit down. Let me look at my schedule. Let me tell you my schedule for the next two weeks. It's going to be pretty hairy. But once we get through that two weeks, I should have a lot more time to invest. So let's put that on our calendar. What would you like to do during that day? Do you have any ideas? So we had that conversation. It wasn't me going, oh man, I got to remember that.

40:08No, it was my daughter coming to me in a calm nervous system and saying, hey, reminder, this thing's on our plate. What are we going to do about it? Oh yeah, thank you. Collaboration. That's not me trying to perform as a dad. That's me empowering my kids to come get their needs met with me. And that was only possible because I have given her so much collaboration in the past. I've taught her to come bring problems and flag them to me. Now I'm doing that. Yes. So we have peace and harmony, but so that when she grows up someday and she's married, she's not terrified to bring problems to her husband.

40:37She also won't date somebody who won't let her bring problems. If she brings problems and he is weird or blows it off, She just, nah, no, I'm not interested in you. Thank you. Goodbye. She's looking for someone who's collaborating with her so she can have a successful marriage. It's buffering her for the rest of her life.

40:51Hunter Clarke-Fields:I love that. I mean, I'm all for that kind of collaboration. And what you're also describing is like a nice kind of transparency and being real and authentic with your kids. You know, I think so many parents, we feel like you have to have all the answers or know all the answers and you can't, you know, and when you have conflicts. it's helpful to bring your kids into the problem solving. It makes it so much easier to implement any solution if your kids are brought into the problem solving and, and part of it. And that's part of holding boundaries too, is bringing them into the problem solving and that collaborative problem solving too.

41:30Hunter Clarke-Fields:I mean, I think parents are sometimes, um, you know, parents, some parents worry, you know, what I'm seeing sometimes today is that parents have seen, okay, authoritarianism is, you know, harsh parenting, punishment, that is really, really not working. But then they swing over to the other side, and they're not holding boundaries, right? They're not holding boundaries around their needs. They're not, you know, holding boundaries in kids, you know, ways that their kids need, maybe you're on phone or something like that, all these kind of things. And I wonder if you could talk to a little bit about that, that they're worried it's going to harm their attachment, harm their relationship.

42:14Hunter Clarke-Fields:How do limits and secure attachment actually support each other? Yeah, no, I don't get along well with the permissive parenting crowd, the group that calls themselves peaceful parents. I don't get along with them at all. I don't agree with their approach because it is very permissive typically, and it doesn't train children for the realities with the world. We do need to show our children when they have made us angry or frustrated, but we don't blame them for it or make them deal with it. I show my kids and I say, do you see my face right now? Yep. Do you see that I'm very frustrated? Yes. I'm very frustrated at the situation.

42:45However, I want us to work together to find a solution. So let's do that.

42:48Hunter Clarke-Fields:Well, see, I would call that peaceful parenting. I'm just saying. As I would say, if you're not being harsh and mean and punitive, you're being peaceful. You're being collaboration is by nature peaceful. Just FYI. Anyway, continue. I do hear you. Here's where there's a difference. Our job is to train our children to understand that people out in the world will not treat them reasonably. So we do have to make sure that they understand the impact that they're having on other human beings. Yes, yes, I agree. And we also have to discipline and train their nervous system. That does not mean punishment, as I said.

43:25But I'm very familiar with a story from the hometown where I grew up was a young man who was raised in the lap of luxury. It was in all the newspapers. He went out on his 21st birthday. His parents had been totally permissive and he was never disciplined correctly. They interviewed them afterward. And he went out and picked a fight with a huge angry guy in a bar on his 21st birthday about taking out to the parking lot and beaten to death in the parking lot because he thought he could just provoke people and mouth off at them. I'm very aware of that. Now it's not the kid's fault for being murdered, but his parents didn't appropriately train him, that you're not supposed to mouth off at people in bars, whether you're drunk or not, and especially not to the point where the people then beat you into unconsciousness and death.

44:03Again, many variables here, but I need to train my children so they don't go into that. I also need to train my sons to have empathy for other people, even while they're stressed and angry. So I need to help them manage their anger. I need to teach my daughters to do the same thing.

44:16Hunter Clarke-Fields:They need to see how their actions affect other people. Correct. Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. Which means I cannot and must not be their best friend. That is not my job. My job actually is to discipline them and even sometimes make them upset and angry. There's a difference between hurt and harm. There are times where you must hurt somebody's feelings to help them learn a lesson. You never ever harm and leave lasting damage that causes somebody to have negative behavior responses that adapt around it. But hurt is an intricate part of the process. I need to let my children get hurt sometimes on their own.

44:52Sometimes I need to do something that hurts their feelings by challenging them in some way and being their father. My job is to be their father. It is not my job to be their friend. That said, if I'm going to discipline my children, I sit with them. I explain what's happening. I make sure my nervous system is calm. I help them understand why the discipline matches the consequence. I help them understand the lesson it's supposed to be training them into. I sit with them through whatever the discipline is. And at the other end, we debrief and we talk about what happened. We help them understand how to make sure this doesn't happen again.

45:22I never, ever discipline in the heat of the moment either. My wife and I do not. We have to calm. We have to manage it. We have to have conversations, multiple conversations, and make sure the lesson is stuck. The big thing for secure attachment is your child needs to understand what happened and why and how to prevent it from repeating. They also have to understand that this is not arbitrary for your convenience. It is for their long-term well-being as a human being. They have to connect all of those pieces. And then there has to be a reunification ritual and repair where they were fully accepted back into the relationship and there is no lingering damage whatsoever.

45:57This is done. I am fully in love with you. You are my child. Everything is washed away. And it's as if this has never happened. The lesson remains, but there is no stain. And I tell my children, you do not need to walk on eggshells. You do not need to make me happy. And you do not need to be quiet for the next day. That is not how we work. Everything is good and you and I are set. Would you like to go play a game? That's full repair. Most of us have not had that. That's a skill that's been lost over the last 110 years as families have fallen apart worse and worse in the West. It's repair is a skill parents must relearn and start implementing after discipline.

46:33Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, I agree. And what you're describing is discipline is teaching, right? Like you have your actions or behavior or whatever words have, you know, caused damage to our someone in the family, myself, our home, something. Right. And you have to you know, we have to you have to understand how what do you have to learn in that moment? Right. Like what do our kids need to learn in that moment so that their actions and words don't harm other people or property or whatever? Right. Like those are important things to learn. And learning those lessons can be. upsetting. And it's okay for our kids to get upset.

47:12It sucks to learn lessons. It hurts, right? Emotionally, we get disappointed, we get scared, we get sad, right? There's a lot of hurt that goes on when we learn painful lessons. I'll never forget my oldest son when he was three, I was telling him to clean up and pick up and he got so mad, he chucked a plastic block straight into my eye. It was the perfect throw, right into my eye socket, knocked my head back. God. And I just, and it hurt. And I looked at him and he looked at me and I could feel my face turning red because it just, it hurt. I was really mad because I got hurt. And he went, and he knew.

47:47And I said, buddy, I need you to go to your room.

47:52Hunter Clarke-Fields:I need a minute. I'm very mad and I don't want to yell at you. Please go to your room. I will come talk to you. He went, okay. And he right to his room. There's three. Calm down as much as I could. I went and talked to him and said, okay, I need you to understand. If you had done that to somebody and outside of our family, they might have punched you in the face. They might've started a fight. You might've gone to jail for hurting somebody. I forgive you. We're okay, but we need to talk about what just happened. So you don't do things like that to anybody because serious bad things can happen when you hurt somebody and lash out like that.

48:29So we need to have this conversation. and I talked to him. He was listening. He was great. He's one of my most gentle children. Now he leads the other kids. He's the leader. He high confidence, right? High testosterone, but gentle. He is so gentle with the little ones. When they attack him or hurt him, he gets mad and he breathes and he says, don't do that again. They go, okay. And he trains them. He's teaching them. But it's because I took that moment. I let him see I was angry. I explained what other people would do and why we need to turn it. And now here's what we're going to do to correct it for ourselves.

49:00That's correct, secure parenting.

49:02Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a beautiful example. I love that. And then the repair and always coming back to that. It's so beautiful. Okay. So for a parent who is listening and wants to do better, not be perfect, what is the most important mindset shift that you'd offer them? It's this. Perfect parenting is impossible. Even I, the attachment specialist, I'm not a perfect father. Despite how I might sound, I'm not perfect, and I'll never be perfect. None of us ever will. The goal is not perfection. The goal is building what we call a self-correcting family system. A self-correcting family system is where your kids work with you.

49:39Your spouse works with you. You all work together to protect the love and harmony of the relationship. So if someone does cross a line, whether it's the child or even a parent, the person can come back and say, hey, I didn't really like how that interaction went. Can we talk about that and make sure that doesn't happen again? My kids, if I ever lose my temper on a bad day in some way, I don't blow up and scream, but if I get frustrated or irritated or something happens, they'll, oh, and I'll see them. They kind of walk away and I go, I felt weird. And I wonder why. And then they'll come back to me half hour later, an hour later and say, dad, you looked really frustrated earlier.

50:14What happened? Ah, okay. Let me explain. Now, let's make this right. I apologize. I didn't mean to come off at you that way, kid. I'm dealing with a lot of work stress, but that's not an appropriate excuse. So you're right. I need to get myself under control. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go take five minutes. I'm going to breathe. Are we okay? Do you need a hug? Are we all right? Yes, we are. Okay. Thanks, kid. I appreciate the check-in. Give them a hug, do my due diligence, manage my nervous system, make sure I'm good for the rest of the day, and then track that going forward. They can correct with me.

50:42Absolutely.

50:43Hunter Clarke-Fields:I think my takeaway from this conversation is that I love this idea of the system, like involving the family system, involving everybody in your own transformation and your own bit by bit growth, you know, as you change involving everybody in it, just being open and transparent about what's happening with you and why. And I think that is just being real is that is is so helpful. But then those practices of of nervous, you know, you've underscored again and again, nervous system regulation is really the key to being able to choose how we'd want to respond and also giving our kids that attention and security that they crave.

51:33Yeah. That's the game. Collaboration is everything. The system is everything. That's what family is for.

51:40Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, that's beautiful. Adam, thank you so much for coming on the Mindful Model podcast. I really appreciate it. Shout out your podcast for everyone, will you? Yeah, I am Adam Lane-Smith, the attachment specialist. You'll find me on every platform in the world, pretty much, under Adam Lane-Smith. I also have a podcast called the I Wish You Knew podcast, where I did host Hunter, and that was an amazing conversation, Hunter. Thank you for that. Everybody, I recommend you check that out. Me and my team are available on adamlanesmith.com. We've got group coaching practices for parents. We have parenting specialized attachment work as well, parenting course, everything you could possibly need on adamlingsmith.com.

52:17Hunter Clarke-Fields:Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing your time, sharing your expertise and experience and all of that with us here. It's been a pleasure.

52:32Hunter Clarke-Fields:Hey, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you are dying to keep going with attachment info, we've got other episodes for you. Check out everything you need to know about attachment with Eli Harwood. That's episode 574. And attachment, emotions and bonding with Dr. Sue Johnson, 483. It was one of the last interviews she gave before her death. And she is such an incredible groundbreaking psychologist in this work. So that's 574 Eli Harwood and 483 Dr. Sue Johnson. So definitely check those out. And I hope, you know, if this episode resonated with you, please do share with some friends, tell them to subscribe and get the podcast weekly and listen.

53:21Hunter Clarke-Fields:There's so much to listen to. They can even have, we have a quiz that they can take at mindfulmamamentor.com to get a playlist, specialized playlist for them. That's mindfulmamamentor.com slash quiz. But yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for caring so much about your kids and your relationship that you are listening to this stuff and learning and growing. That's awesome. Yes, high five. Good for you. Really, it's really a wonderful thing to do, to take all our imperfect imperfections and mistakes and messiness and weirdness and insecurities and to grow and heal and try to make things better for the next generation.

54:04Hunter Clarke-Fields:I appreciate that you're doing that work. So thank you so much for being here. Wishing you all the best. And I will see you again next week. Namaste. day.

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