[Parenting Challenging Kids Series] Stop Behavior That Makes You Crazy - Bethany Bilodeau

22:58Hunter Clarke-Fields:He needed to burn off some energy. That's funny because I've always thought that about myself. When I was a kid, I would be at the barn, I'd lift heavy hay bales. And, and when as an adult, I really, you know, when I was in college, I realized, oh, like, you know, running like this is great for me, I can just burn off I called burning off my ya-ya's. But I know ya-ya is a Greek grandmother. Sorry, all Greek people. But just that that energy that like intense, intensive energy. And yeah, I think that, I don't know, our lives are so non-physical that I imagine that's a problem for a lot of people.

23:39Yeah. He also, he got into hippotherapy too and worked on farms for years and years and years. It actually worked after high school, worked at the World Equestrian Center, training horses and hunter jumper because he's very attuned with horses and started horseback riding when he was 18 months old. And it was just his world.

23:58Hunter Clarke-Fields:How did you figure out that he needed this movement? It was just through working with a PT, I guess? So we tried. Yep. We tried a number of things and those sorts of things just seemed to work for him. And I also have a very similar makeup. So I knew for myself that, you know, I need to exercise and move and all that. And oftentimes my husband will say, did you work out today? And I'll be like, no, today's my day off. And he's like, maybe you should get on the bike, babe. You're probably right. I can so relate. Right. Okay, but not every kid is like this. And you've worked with a lot of different kinds of kids.

24:39And you say that when kids feel safe, back to what we talked about initially, when kids feel

24:45Hunter Clarke-Fields:safe, behaviors improve. So what does this really mean, the idea of safety from a behavioral and emotional standpoint? It's really that their nervous system feels regulated, that their nervous system feels safe. And for a lot of kids, that doesn't ever happen. I work with a lot of kids who've had medical issues as a child and their parents say, I can't understand why my kid has these challenges. We're a loving household. We spend a lot of time with them. We're doing all the things. And they are 100%. They're doing the most. The difference is that that experience that they had as an infant or something like that have created this scenario where their nervous system is in the state of hypervigilance and where they can't ever relax and let their guard down and that sort of thing because they're always in this constant state of almost like anxiety that's going on within their bodies.

25:41Hunter Clarke-Fields:So you're talking about a kid who may have had a birth trauma or something like that? Yeah, it could potentially be. Also, we have kids that have had a lot of significant environmental traumas. They've had traumatic experiences in their lifetime, whether it's simple one-time experiences, something such as a house fire or something like that, or situations of abuse and neglect and those sorts of things. All of those things can create those sort of behavioral responses and make them feel in the state of hypervigilance all the time where they don't sleep well. They are oftentimes craving sugar or simple carbohydrates.

26:17concentrates. They're having a really hard time accessing the prefrontal cortex so they can learn in school. They have a lot of learning difficulties. And oftentimes, it's more of a factor of the state that their nervous system is in than anything else. Toxic stress, those sorts of things that are impacting their bodies.

26:36Hunter Clarke-Fields:And do you see, I was also wondering about things like people have difficulty breathing and sleeping. You know, do you see aggressive outbursts happening when kids can't sleep properly or can't breathe properly when they sleep. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And I will say 90 % of the youth that I work with are mouth breathers. They don't breathe through their noses. They breathe through their mouths. Yeah, that's supposed to be very problematic. We just had an expert on to this year to talk about it last year, Patrick McEwen. Dear listener, if you want to listen to that episode talking about mouth breathing and how problematic it is, a lot of challenge.

27:17Yeah, listen to that episode because it's huge. One of the things that I tell parents, especially new parents, I'm like, work with your child to get them to breathe through their nose, especially when they're sleeping. It's critical to their blood pressure. It's critical to their ability to access blood flow in the brain. It impacts so many areas of their health and nervous system. It's unreal. Yeah.

27:42Hunter Clarke-Fields:My own daughter, we had to get her, she had sleep apnea and we had to get her tonsils out. And it was amazing how when she was little, little, and it was amazing how quickly she started learning and reading. So she just like was suddenly a super learner after that. And then we realized like, oh, she has been hampered by this sleep issue. She hasn't been able to learn because of this. It's amazing. Okay. So we want to, And I guess the listener, you may be saying, okay, well, we've got to figure out the root of this, right? The root of this feeling of not feeling safe or the nervous system overwhelmed.

28:21Hunter Clarke-Fields:We want to try to understand the root of it. What happens when parents can't, don't understand the root of it or when they're in the meantime place? So we often work with parents on saying, okay, let's talk about what potentially goes on in the household. Is there a lot of movement? Is there a lot of sound? Is there a lot of fluorescent light exposure? Are there a lot of things that are happening that jar the nervous system in the morning when they get up? Are they getting up before the sun comes up and are all the lights being turned on? And then we back them into, okay, so what are some more gradual ways that you can help their nervous system be comfortable?

28:58Are they sleeping well at night? Okay, what's their sleep hygiene look like? Let's walk through how many times you think they're waking up during the night and make sure that they're getting all those pieces. Are they dehydrated? I think it's about 85 % of kids nowadays entering school are dehydrated when they're coming into school. And a lot of that is because, one, they're not drinking a lot of water at home oftentimes, or they're drinking something else when they're coming in in the morning that doesn't work to hydrate their bodies. So if you're asking a kid to function and learn and they're dehydrated, they're not going to be able to.

29:37A lot of the signs and symptoms of dehydration look like ADHD. So you need to have a hydrated learner is even more important than having food consumption. Being hydrated is critical to kids doing well at school and being able to learn and think. You can't make any of those neurohormones if your body's not producing them because it doesn't have enough water.

30:01Hunter Clarke-Fields:Oh, wow. Okay. All right. So we're really looking at like the basics, hydration, sleep, and then can we make the home more soothing? Can we try to have some more rhythm and process to make things more soothing? What else do you look at beyond that say all those boxes are checked. So then oftentimes I'll look at their body, I look at their body positioning and I oftentimes when I'm working with them directly, I do that first. So I'm looking at their body positioning, how are they holding their shoulders and everything else? And I'll often say like, oh, the head alignment, just the head alignment alone is pushing their body into a state of hypervigilance.

30:42And they're, you know, I know that they're not going to be able to breathe properly from the way that they're holding their head or neck. and that in and of itself is going to impact everything else. And they're going to be more stressed, more anxious, more likely to move into a state of fight or flight with that occurring. So when I look at the head and the shoulders and the hips, if that head is traveling ahead of the shoulders and hips, then I'm like, oh, that kiddo is going to move into much more of an anxious state faster than other people would.

31:14Hunter Clarke-Fields:That's so interesting. I wonder what would cause that. Is it just not maybe enough physicality? It's a number of things. It could be low tone. It could be lack of proper nutrition. Yep. It could be that they have been breathing in a way that isn't necessarily correct for their body. It could be that. It could be a spinal issue. It could be extended use of devices. That's a big one I see with kids nowadays, especially because kids work on Chromebooks so much at school nowadays. nowadays. And so they have this more protruded head stance and posture at this point. And that isn't correct necessarily for our body alignment.

31:56So I see a lot with kids a lot more nowadays than I did five years ago, 10 years ago.

32:01Hunter Clarke-Fields:Wow. Wow. So there's a lot to think about, dear listener. If your kid is having some aggressive outbursts, there's a lot to think about. For you to be an ally. You have to, you know, it's not just sort of stop the behavior. It's like, let's figure out why this behavior is happening. Let's help the nervous system. Let's look at their physiology, their nutrition, their sleep, all of these things. And then you get to the point where, you know, we have us as parents and their parenting, right? And like, what are some of the common mistakes that adults make when trying to discipline or manage the challenging behavior?

32:37Hunter Clarke-Fields:And what can they do differently? I think the biggest thing one is that parents don't give themselves enough grace. They're trying, they're doing as much as they can, and they're in a constant state of, I feel so guilty because I either did this. I provided this boundary, or I think I made a mistake with this part of discipline, or I think I did that. Give yourself grace. You're human. In every situation, it's slightly different. Every person is slightly different. You're trying, you're there, you're responding to your child, that alone is a success. So, you know, forgive yourself for those things.

33:13And then look for other techniques. If you've tried a technique and it hasn't worked more than two times, try a different technique. It's okay to do something a little differently and say, I'm just going to see if this works today. You don't have to stick with it forever if it doesn't work for you, but try something different if it's not working for you. And I think a lot of times parents were resistant to do that because we're like, but I did it this way and I told my kid I was going to do this and it's really hard. Yeah. And we look at it as a sign of inconsistency instead of a sign of this technique isn't working.

33:47And I say that to parents all the time. They'll say, well, I do this when they do that. And I'm like, does it work? Is it actually getting you the outcome you want? No. And I'm like, well, then we need to change the technique. I know, but I told the child this would be the response if they did this. I understand that. Let's work with that and figure out a way for you to follow through in your word, but also make it so that the situation actually results in what you want it to result in.

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34:56Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, but you were also saying that, And, you know, when we sometimes we make requests, like to kind of go back to the beginning, we make requests, you know, we may not be super skillful in our requests and our kids may have angry outbursts. And you may say, OK, well, that is a technique that might not be working. And I'm also wondering if kids have been started to get in the habit of resisting parents' requests because it may not, you know, for whatever reason, can't, may it not be that like kids are just simply still in the habit of they've, they've gotten, this is the, what they do is they resist parents' requests, right?

35:39Hunter Clarke-Fields:Like this is the habit of what they're doing. It's their job. Exactly. Yeah. So then if you try something twice and it doesn't work, it may, you know what I mean? It may be that they're just still in this, I'm going to resist everything mom says kind of mode, right? Right. And if you have a child that responds to humor, that's a great time to use it. I have my older daughter, my 12-year-old, loves humor and can use humor with everything. My younger daughter, really hard for her. She is a very rigid thinker for the most part. That's really tough for her. So in my older daughter, if I make a request and she doesn't want to participate in it or resist me in some way, I'll start making a joke out of it and almost make a joke about myself making the request and everything else.

36:24And she gets such a kick out of that that she just participates without realizing it. With my younger daughter, that's not going to work. So with my younger daughter, then I need to say, this is why it's important to me. And a lot of times nowadays, kids need to know the why. And there's a reason for that. So many times, whereas I know when I was a child, you didn't question. You were just expected to do it. And we did it. That's how things were done. But nowadays, kids are worried about, you know, if I just answer that, could something bad happen? Is this the right thing to do? So they need to know the why.

36:58And knowing the why is not a bad thing either because it makes them work more on problem solving. They're able to actually work themselves through scenarios in a much healthier way because we don't want compliance without questioning. That could put people in an unsafe situation. Yeah. So I often encourage kids to ask why, even when it frustrates me sometimes and I'm like, oh, I don't want to go into the answer, especially with my own kids when I'm like, I'm busy. and my daughter will be sitting in the back seat saying, but why, mom? Why? Why? Why? Why? And sometimes I'll have to turn it back and I'll say, you need to explain to me why you're asking why so that I can help you with a response for it because I'm not sure what part of this you're questioning.

37:41And that helps to get some clarity so that I'm not just answering it and getting myself more frustrated where I'm like, I've answered four whys. Be specific. But kids, oftentimes they need to know the why. Most people need to know the why's nowadays.

37:58Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, I think so. In fact, that's another thing we were talking about yesterday was the, like, let's let kids know the consequences or the effects of this behavior on you. Like, how does this affect your life when they do X, Y, or Z? You know, if there's a mess all over the living room, how does that affect you? How does that affect your life? And kids need to know that to be able to understand that their behavior is a problem. So we want them to, we kind of want this balance of safety, but we also want to have these boundaries and correction. You talk about this idea of connection before correction, of course.

38:38Hunter Clarke-Fields:What does that look like in practice when a child is acting out with some kind of aggressive outburst? So oftentimes, if I know the child, I can say something to them like, I can see you're super frustrated right now. Let me help you. If it's my own child, then I can say right to them like, can I give you a hug? Do you need some sort of connection from me or something like that? And that will diffuse the situation very quickly. When it's a student, if I know the child or something like that, then I can usually offer them a couple of options. And I can say, I can see you're really frustrated. Would this help or would this help?

39:16And I usually don't do more than two. And the reason why is because they're already escalated. They can't make choices beyond two. So two is enough. Not true choice, because it's not more than two, but it's enough choice that it allows them to be successful. And usually if they feel like they have some control and can make that choice, and I'm empathetic, and that's why I always say, I see that you're frustrated. I feel frustrated too with this situation, that allows them to connect with me and move forward. And if I don't know the child, oftentimes I'm saying also, I'm Dr. B or I'm Bethany. I'm here to help you.

39:54I'm so sorry that you're frustrated. Here's a couple things that might help. And then I pause and I'm quiet because the more noise, the more it's going to cause the escalation to increase. The same thing, The bigger the space, their behavior needs to fill up the space. So if they're in a big room or in a gymnasium or something like that, or the living room, the escalation is going to be much larger than if they're in a smaller space. So if you can get them to go to a smaller area of the house or something like that, the escalation will actually come down just because of the sizing of the area.

40:32So as soon as they escalate, their bodies feel like it needs to fill up the space and their volume.

40:37Hunter Clarke-Fields:Wow, that's fascinating. That's like a big argument against like a double height living room. Well, and oftentimes I'll tell kids to go under tables and people will say, oh, don't encourage them to go under the tables. And I'm like, that's the quickest way to regulate them. If I can get the kid to go under the table for 30 seconds and then they can come out and have a conversation about what was going on or move on to another activity and we can have the conversation in an hour or two when they're ready to have it, then, you know, I mean, we got out of that situation in a good way without having the living room wrecked, you know, and ended up dragging it out for long periods of time.

41:16Water too. Water's a natural regulator. So if your kid is stressed or whatever, have him take a shower, have him take a bath. And that's oftentimes what I advise parents who have kids who are really anxious or oftentimes present in an escalated, angry way. I'll say, try to get them to take a shower. As soon as they start to rise up, and most of us know the signs, say, hey, can you go take a shower or something like that? They're not going to want to because they don't want to get into water. That often happens at the beginning. Or turn the water on and start washing dishes or fill up the dog water bowl, just the sound of water, the sight of water will help to regulate them.

41:57Hunter Clarke-Fields:That's so fascinating. As you describe that, it makes me remember that I used to spend a lot of time under tables as a kid. I hadn't thought about that in so long. I spent a lot of time under tables. So all of this is to say, the message I'm hearing is, if your kid's having meltdowns, your kid's having aggressive outbursts, they're, they're dysregulated, they need help. They don't, they don't need, they don't need discipline or punishment. I mean, discipline may be in the word of teaching, but like, they need, they need help. They need to understand their nervous system. They need to have tools to understand their nervous system.

42:41Hunter Clarke-Fields:They need to, you know, need to make sure the environment is helping them, their sleep, all of those different things are helping them. And that maybe that might be, you know, I asked you the question, what's the most common mistake adults make? And you said being hard on ourselves. And And I imagine that is. But I imagine also, you know, we may also be with a partner, parents, other family members who are saying you need to, you know, show this child who's boss too. But my understanding from what you're saying is that we need to just help them regulate their nervous system more than anything.

43:23Old techniques don't work. I think that that's been pretty clear to most people in the last four or five years is that the techniques that we used 10 years ago, 20 years ago are not effective. And, you know, that we need to do a different approach because what we've done in the past, it's not the same. Our world is not the same. Individuals in it are not the same. So we can't have the expectation that the past expectations and the past strategies are going to work because they're just not. So we're in a much different space than we were, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago.

44:01Hunter Clarke-Fields:Okay. So if you could give one piece of advice to parents who want to raise kids who feel emotionally safe and who are also resilient, who also can do, you know, pick up their stuff and do chores and stuff like that, what would it be? I would say the biggest thing I tell parents typically is to have fun with failure. Like make it into more of a game and instead of an expectation because that's so many of us want to keep our kids from failing at this point because it is just been ingrained to us to not let our kids fail. but they need to fail. That is part of learning. It's part of life and they learn so much more from failure.

44:42Make it more fun. Make it part of the normal, part of the human experience so that they don't feel like it's such a flaw if they do fail and not want to try new things. And I see that a lot with kids nowadays. They don't have the resiliency and a lot of that is because they haven't experienced failure and been able to move forward from it. It becomes a reminder of remember when you did that instead of a, yeah, I made this mistake and, you know, and then I worked through it and now I do it this way. So allowing them to have some fun with that failure and make it part of the natural human experience.

45:20Hunter Clarke-Fields:And I guess, you know, back to your answer about mistakes, like allow us to have that permission to be human too, as parents, like that we are also going to make mistakes. I mean, honestly, it wouldn't be good for kids if we were absolutely 100 % perfect all the time anyway. Absolutely. And own it when you do. Like, I tried it very hard to whenever I make a mistake of some sort to always admit it to the people around me or to whomever I made the mistake with so that they feel like, wow, she's willing to take ownership and own this. And I think that's tough because a lot of the students that I work with will tell me, I've never had an adult say that they made a mistake.

46:03I've never heard them say I'm sorry. Even if it's not something that they happen to have caused. I worked with a student for a few years where he had an experience at a school that was not a good experience. It was a very physical experience and it wasn't a situation he should have been in. And I remember one day he was telling a bunch of other students about it and how horrible it was. And I said, hey, I know that this happened. I met you during that time. I'm sorry that these adults did this. It was wrong. They shouldn't have done it. And it isn't okay. And we're trying to make things better because of that.

46:45And he looked at me and it was a real kind of tough kid and everything. And he started to get upset. And he said, nobody's ever said sorry. And I said, I'm saying sorry. And I'm I'm apologizing for that too. Somebody should have told you that they were sorry because those were mistakes that were made. And it changed the whole dynamic of his relationship with me and with school because he was the kid that came in and was like, I'm going to fight you on everything because I've had those negative experiences. And very understandably, why? But that's not going to help him moving forward in the future to have that sort of interaction with people.

47:26But that apology, it helped him to be able to move forward, even if it wasn't from the environment of where it occurred.

47:35Hunter Clarke-Fields:That's so cool. Yeah, that's a great example of be the change you want to see, right? You wanted to see this change in him, so you had to show him and model for him what it means to be human and vulnerable and real. Bethany, this has been so helpful. I love talking about this. I know this is going to be such a helpful episode for people to listen to. Where can they find out more about you if they want to reach out? The easiest way to find us is at www.thebehaviorbootcamp.com. And we also are under that title for our social medias as well. All right. So behaviorbootcamp.com. Thank you so much, Bethany.

48:15Hunter Clarke-Fields:You've taken your challenge with your own son and the biter and turned it into some work that's really helped all of us. I know that's where some of the best, most passionate change can come from. So thank you so much for coming on and thank you for doing what you do. Thanks so much for having me.

48:41Hunter Clarke-Fields:Hey, I hope you enjoyed this episode. and I hope you learned things from this and I hope it's really, really helpful. I wish I had Dr. Dr. B a long time ago. That's for sure. If you find this helpful, please share it. Please tell friends, tell them to subscribe, leave a review, do those things to help us continue to make the podcast. No celebrities here, so we need your help. So share it around and I'd love to hear what you think. Let me know. I'm at Mindful Mama Mentor. and I'm wishing you a great, wonderful, beautiful, fabulous week. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for listening. Namaste.

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