Raising Resilient Kids Through the Tricky Middle Years - Alyssa Campbell

26:23And then they get to choose what do I do with that? What decision do I want to make? Yeah.

26:29Hunter Clarke-Fields:And it may not be the perfect decision. Right. And it may be a decision that leads to more discomfort. and yeah I mean even you know my daughter was a senior she made a decision had a real big friend drama and ex-girl drama all kinds of things happening and and she made a decision that she talked to me about and I kind of advised against I was like I don't know if that's gonna go so well and she did it anyway and it really like fell down apart around her and led to like a lot of discomfort for a number of months for her. And it's like, okay, well, the way I see these kind of things is like, and I think this is, you know, I think this is the is a way that we should look at these things is that, yeah, like our kids need practice in this, they need like, it's better for them to go through these difficult things.

27:27Hunter Clarke-Fields:Whether it's, you know, whether it's the missing the homework, you know, the homework being their problem, we can go there if you want as far as elementary, but or the friend thing or whatever it is, and messing up being human and making the mistake, messing up, and then having a good chunk of that stuff happen in the 18 years that they are at home, and that you are there, and you can be there and be that support, be that security, be that, you know, be that soft landing to listen to help them through it. And so they're not, you know, they're not just going out and experiencing all this on their own.

28:09Yeah, exactly. That like they they get to practice that, but they got to practice it and they're going to learn from it. Another big focus for us in this book and in these middle childhood years, like helping kids understand how their bodies work. So when I was talking about my two kids, Sage and Mila, Sage is like he's sensory sensitive. He gets overwhelmed with a lot of stimuli. He prefers a small focused group of people. And Milo's like, let's have a dance party. Let's be in a large group, like all the connection seeking and sensory seeking. And so much of what we're going to be working on as they continue to get older is helping them understand how their body works and how that connects to their brain and what they need to thrive in the world.

28:59Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, and how that connects to other people in a social context. Because like, even your kid who doesn't want all that sensory overload, doesn't want all that maybe social stimulation, you know, it's not going to be good for them to withdraw from the world because of it, right? Like, that's terrible, right? Like that, you know, the loneliness and isolation from people trying to like, avoid discomfort of interaction with other people, that isn't such a great answer either. So it's like about like kind of learning the care and keeping of you so that you can say, okay, I'm this way and et cetera, right?

29:39Hunter Clarke-Fields:So you're talking about those. And in this book, you talk about the senses too. I also want to hear about like the nine senses as well. So when we're looking at that, what I'm helping them understand is those nine senses, which we'll break down here, and how those senses show up for them. So we often hear about the first five, sight, sound, taste, touch, smell. And then there are three others that are thrown into the mix a little more, and then one more that we combined in here as well. Okay, okay, hold on, let me guess. You've got interoception, your sense of what's happening inside your body, proprioception is balance, and your body is in space, kind of, right?

30:23So yeah, your balance and movement is your vestibular sense. Oh, vestibular. Dang it. Yep. Located in your inner ear. It keeps you upright, right? Yeah, yeah.

30:32Hunter Clarke-Fields:Vestibular and then proprioception is kind of where you are in space. Are those the other three? Wait, five, six, seven, eight. There's one more. And then there's one more. There's one more that's like pretty newer on the scene in terms of being included in the senses. It used to be like always separated. but just to break those down a little more for listeners so that interception lets you know like I'm hungry I'm tired I have to go to the bathroom my heart's beating fast those internal cues that vestibular as we said keeps you upright responsible for your movement and balance think of like going on the swings doing a downward dog pose and yoga like moving the plane of your head and our vestibular sensitive humans would be listening and saying like oh I'm motion sick with those things.

31:15And a vestibular seeker is like, yeah, put me on a swing, put me in an office chair that kind of rotates or a swivel chair. Spin me around. That's right. And then proprioception is, I have low proprioceptive awareness. And what this looks like is I'll like bump into the table or my bed frame. For the love, cannot figure out where my leg ends and my bed frame begins. I always have like a bruise on it from like turning that corner too tight. And so our proprioceptive sense lets us know where things are around us and where our body ends. And folks with lower proprioceptive awareness are higher proprioceptive seeking.

31:57So they're looking for more of that to say like, where do I end? I'm a human who could have a massage for four days and I'm like, I want more. I love deep touch. I love that pressure. And so in terms of physical activity, I'm looking for like big body play. Give me a kickboxing class. I like lifting weights. Those are things that my body really craves as a perperceptive seeker with low perperceptive awareness. My son, who has high perperceptive awareness, has a bigger space bubble. He's like, yep, we're close enough. You're good. I know that I end here. He also is phenomenal. He has like a power wheels tractor.

32:36he can bob and weave in and around things and not hit the things around him and i'm like oh you're so close to that and he makes the cut and he can do it because he has such hyper perceptive awareness he's aware of like what is the size of this thing i'm close enough but not too close to that he can navigate those where like my nightmare is i'm on a highway and there's a cement wall on one side and a semi truck and i'm like sweaty and nobody talk to me please i'm just trying to get through this. And so looking at like, that's how those show up. Now, our last one is neuroception. And I call this our spidey sense.

33:11It is our safety sense. You know, if like there's conflict in a room with two people and they stop arguing, but you like walk in and you can feel that energy in the room. That's your neuroceptive sensing like, oh, something's off here. And it's how when somebody says like, I'm fine. We know they're not fine, right? Like you hear it in their tone. That's your neuroceptive sense. It perceives that like nonverbal communication. It's really that like energy reader. And it's one that for kids who have high ACEs, who have a lot of trauma, is often heightened. They're typically phenomenal at reading nonverbal communication because it's often kept them safe in the world.

33:55Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, unfortunately. That's right. That's right. And it's why like for teachers of these humans, it's so crucial that we're aware of the neuroception in the space. Like if a kid walks in and I'm like, hey, bud, versus like, hey, bud, it's so good to see you. Or if I got big energy and I'm like, hi, buddy, and they like retreat, that I can really be mindful. Like, what's my tone? What's my body language here? So that neuroceptive sense is, It's like our safety sense. So when we're looking at those nine senses, all of us are sensitive to some versus seeking others for regulation. And it's different for all of us.

34:35So we actually worked with a group of occupational therapists to put together a comprehensive questionnaire that you can take at any age. In fact, what's been so interesting is so far since this has been out in the world, the overwhelming majority of questionnaires taken have been by adults for adults, where they're taking it for themselves of like, wait, how do I function and work? Which is awesome, because if we understand how we function and work, then we can better regulate ourselves to respond with attention. So the way that it works is you take the questionnaire and in the end, it'll tell you, all right, you might be kind of a neutral seeker where you're seeking a little bit of sensory input.

35:16You can filter a bunch out. You might be high-seeking where you're going to need to have some accommodations probably in place. My colleague is a high-sensory seeker. She's got an essential roller in her bag that she can put on at any point to smell. She is going to have fidgets and click things. She likes to listen to background music when she's working in earbuds. She's really seeking quite a bit of stimuli for regulation. and then we have that sensory sensitive which is really saying that those humans are so good at noticing details I married a sensory sensitive human and I had like clipped my nails recently and he was like hey I saw you cut your nails and I was like oh my gosh thanks I feel seen and he was like yeah you put the nail clippers back in the wrong spot and I was like oh that's not where I thought that was going but for him and for the record like same cabinet just a little little bit to the right.

36:12It just is so noticeable. He picks up on all the details. He's a phenomenal person to like edit your paper. He's going to notice those little details of things that my brain often misses. I'm the annoying partner like making piles everywhere. And he's like, can you just put it behind a door or a cabinet or in a drawer so it's not overwhelming my brain?

36:34Hunter Clarke-Fields:And the same thing. That's so funny because this that is my husband too. And he does, of course, like computer programming stuff where you have to like pay attention to like its details and things like that. But he was my first editor for recent humans. He was really good at it. It was great. Yes, that was so smart. Yes. And so often our details humans, we consider them sensory sensitive because they're sensitive to the sensory stimuli. They notice it. They're hyper aware of it. What this means is that they can get overwhelmed with stimuli faster because their brain is paying attention to details that other brains might miss.

37:13Where like my nightmare is that I am asked by the police at like a crime scene, like any details. What was the person wearing? What car were they driving? And I'm like, I can tell you nothing about them. I have no rec. And my husband would be like, it's a blue shirt. It was this car. This is the year. Here are any details about the car. There was a scratch on the left side, whatever. Like, not how my brain works. What that means for me is that I can often handle more stimuli in a chunk of time before accessing a regulating activity than he can. He'll get overwhelmed faster. He needs more frequent breaks.

37:51He needs some more accommodations throughout the day to reduce stimuli for him to increase his capacity.

38:02Hunter Clarke-Fields:stay tuned for more mindful mama podcast right after this break i'm away on vacation right now but i don't have to worry about my kitties at all someone's going to walk the dog but the kitties are taken care of because of the whisker litter robot it is so great to have the litter robot and so nobody is stressed about cleaning the cat's litter Our lives are busy. If you have sleepless nights or diaper changes and all that stuff, you don't need to be worrying about litter. The Whisker Litter Robot automatically cycles after every use so you're not handling waste or scooping daily, which is especially important, of course, during pregnancy if that's happening for you.

38:45Hunter Clarke-Fields:Maintain your cat's litter while focusing on your growing family. Learn more about Whisker Litter Robot models starter kits today and get set up before your new baby arrives. That's in the cards for you. And you can take an additional$50 off bundles with the code Hunter at whisker.com slash Hunter. That's an additional$50 off bundles with the code Hunter at whisker.com slash Hunter. this is so interesting because i'm thinking about this in the um in the sort of worlds of of mindfulness right like where we can where we're practicing to increase our awareness of various things maybe it's the breath or it's the proprioception awareness of our our belly or our feet on the ground whatever it is but we're also at the same time use it you know practicing to regulate the body, right?

39:41Hunter Clarke-Fields:Like we're noticing more heightened experiences and we're relaxing into this. So it's like practicing awareness and relaxation sort of at the same time and kind of sort of shifting, right, in some ways between those things. And I'm thinking about these sort of different levels of people and how this might, you know, like for the person who needs accommodations of fidgets and things like that. If they, you know, they say they go into like a mindfulness session, they practice a sitting meditation session, they're like, oh my God, I'm going to die of fidgetiness. And the teacher invites them to die of fidgetiness, right?

40:25Hunter Clarke-Fields:Like to go through that process of letting yourself die of fidgetiness. Of course, they don't. Yeah. And what, you know, what I've seen that benefit people in that way, but then also sort of like, you know, in sort of the other sense, the people who are so hyper aware of maybe that practice of the relaxing or calming the nervous system is more apropos. I don't know. Any thoughts on that? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, 100%. I think what we're also kind of talking around, not talking about yet, is the role that neurodivergence plays in this. And that our sensory sensitive humans can be neurodivergent, where they are noticing a lot of those cues and can get overwhelmed.

41:18and for a human who is sensory sensitive, having them sit in a space where their nervous system is overwhelmed and flooded and doesn't feel safe and tune into and say like, allow that, is I think applicable for a neurotypical human, for a human who they can notice those things and tune into things that maybe they aren't yet noticing and might still feel safe in their nervous system while doing that.

41:51Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yeah, I guess it's a sense of safety that is the key to that system, that process. Anyway, sorry, go ahead. Yes. And so that's what I believe here too. And that if we have a sensory sensitive human who we're saying like, yeah, it's chaotic and And there's so much stimuli and we want you to just be in it and notice it. They already are noticing it in such a heightened manner that for them, their nervous system is having a stress response to the amount of stimuli they're noticing. Our sensory seekers, on the other hand, also can be neurodivergent on that sensory seeking side. for them to notice their desire to seek stimuli is also their body's way of saying like how do I feel safe in this world that I'm not noticing this smell or I'm not I'm not sure where my body ends and something else begins and so their nervous system encourages them to seek out proprioceptive input or tactile input to let them know I end here, that thing begins there, that that turns that communication system on.

43:05Hunter Clarke-Fields:So we're talking about like the difference between seeking that input versus seeking that safety, right? That's kind of like, and then in some ways like... Even safety on both sides, actually. Seeking like a retreat from stimuli, that like seeking that calm and stillness and silence that for a neurotypical brain might be able to seek even amidst chaos more easily than a neurodivergent brain could seek. Does that make sense? I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in this, for the elementary school kids, you're helping parents to maybe identify where is my kid in this spectrum, right? Like, are they sensory sensitive?

43:54Are they sensory seeking, right?

43:56Hunter Clarke-Fields:Like, and what kind of, how do I teach them about sort of the care and keeping of them with all this in mind? That's right. And so we have a QR code for the quiz in there, but it's seedquiz.com. Anyone can access it, whether you have the book or not. and it's free. You can take it as many times as you want for all the humans in your family at different age. There's different age brackets. You get age appropriate questions, age appropriate results. And with each one, it's shown on a spectrum. So it's not like, oh, you're sensitive to smell. It shows it on a spectrum of negative two to plus two.

44:30Like how sensitive to smell are you?

44:33Hunter Clarke-Fields:Oh, I'm going to have to take this. Me and my daughter are going to totally take this quiz later. It's so fun. My whole family has done it. And it is so helpful because it gives, for me, compassion to my tiny humans. Like, oh, you're not trying to be a pain in my butt. Your nervous system's overwhelmed. Or you need to move your body before you can come sit at the dinner table or have this hard conversation or do your homework, right? But you have needs that are coming first. And we have a homework example in the book with a story that we had from a family where we really had to go through like, why was this kid who's so capable not doing their homework and turning it in and then starting to fail this class?

45:22And what was really coming up for them and what was in their way? And what did they need to happen before their brain could actually access the homework and the task demands of homework? And a lot of it had to do with their sensory systems, that they weren't in a regulated enough state coming home from school to then access that. And when we put a plan in place that allowed them to get those needs met, homework started happening. They had the capacity for it. And so we use this, the nine senses, to really understand how does your unique brain and body show up in the world? and then not as an excuse, but rather as a lens for, okay, what are you going to need for access?

46:09That if my son wants to be a part of a play and there's going to be all these different people or components, or he wants to be on a basketball team that's going to be loud in the gym and all that jazz, knowing how his brain and body work, what's he going to need to be successful for that? Not, oh, those things aren't for him because of how his brain and body works, but what's he going to need to be successful there. And for my daughter, who's so high connection seeking and sensory seeking, what's she going to need to thrive? That for her, because connection is so important, inclusion and belonging are going to be very important for her.

46:48So learning how to navigate feeling left out or feeling embarrassed are going to be big challenges for her. She's going to fall on that emotional side of what does she need emotionally to be able to thrive in the world. And for every single human, it's going to be different. And we look at this from a place of equity. Like, what does this nervous system need to thrive?

47:10Hunter Clarke-Fields:And I love this because you're approaching it not from a point of view of like, okay, parents, like, let's just, you know, from inviting the parents to be in this place of like, listen, be aware, see your kid, right? Be curious about who is this kid in front of you, right? Really try to understand, be aware of them, but also then be this coach, be this supporter. Like notice what are these, the mistakes your kid's making or the challenges they're having? What are they telling you about your kid? What can you learn about them? And then as a parent, you can then be the one who says, okay, what do you need.

47:53Hunter Clarke-Fields:And then if there's some boundaries to hold, you know, maybe we can discuss what they are and we can discuss why they're there and because of who you are, right? And then, you know, rather than being like, you know, what I'm kind of hearing from you as you describe, you know, a parent understanding a kid is that it's a dialogue. It's a like, you know, okay, hey, you're about to fail this class. Let's start to understand what do you need to be successful and what is it that's going on with your body and your mind and all of those things. I love all that. It leads to just more curiosity. I was just going to say, I love this.

48:34Hunter Clarke-Fields:I'm going to shout out the book. It's Big Kids, Bigger Feelings. So if you want to dive deeper into this, go get the book. It's out now, Navigating Defiance, Milddowns, and Anxiety to Raise Confident, Connected Kids. is the subtitle. For a parent who's like, oh my God, I'm in this. And it's like a roller coaster and it's scary. Any final words of wisdom for that parent? Most things aren't an emergency. And so when we can slow down and notice, for myself, writing it down is helpful. Also talking to somebody is helpful. So when I noticed that spiral of like, oh my God, my kid's going to be 16 and have no friends and I'm failing them in life.

49:23And what does this mean? And I'm jumping ahead to this wild scenario when it's like, oh, they're five today though. It is so helpful for me to really look at what is my fear here? What am I noticing? And then what's my fear about what that's going to mean for them down the road or for them more immediately. And that slowing down of getting curious with yourself will automatically start to slow down your nervous system. And then we can get curious about, all right, now what is happening now? And our greatest, greatest tool is curiosity. That if we recognize that even if they fail every class or nobody wants to hang out with them right now, or they are swearing and slamming doors in your face right now, right now, today, is most likely not an emergency.

50:23That if we can slow down and start to get curious, it usually leads us to then greater results. And I feel like the number one parenting, I guess, strategy that I want, there's so much information out in the world right now. I think it could be like, okay, don't say this, say that. But if we're going to focus on one thing and one thing only with our kids today, it's to apologize when we make mistakes. That if we think back to our childhood, so many of us didn't receive repair, which is that apology from an adult. And what ends up happening is that when an adult does something, they yell, they react, they're yelling at you about your homework and why didn't you do this?

51:16And you said you were doing it and you went into school and you didn't turn it in and you lied to me. When they're yelling and they're dysregulated and they're reacting, the child doesn't see, oh, my mom's dysregulated and having a hard time with her feelings. The child sees, I'm bad. I'm failing. They internalize shame about themselves. And so when you do react and then you come back and say, man, I'm so sorry. Earlier, I was feeling scared and overwhelmed, frustrated, and I was yelling at you about your homework. And I said a lot of things that aren't true. I'm still learning how to calm my body when I'm feeling frustrated and overwhelmed.

52:03You are incredible. And we're going to figure this out together. This isn't an emergency. I love you. And we do that. It takes it, it takes that shame from them.

52:15Hunter Clarke-Fields:Yes. Yes. I love that. It teaches them how to apologize. It also models, you know, it models that your humanity, right? It models humanity. It gives, it gives, you know, when you apologize, you're giving yourself permission to have been human, which you were, you were pretty human, right? And then, but it also gives your kids permission to be human and not be ashamed of it. Absolutely. I love that. Love that. Alyssa, this is so good. All right. Well, everyone go get the book. Alyssa, I love talking to you. Bigger kids, bigger feelings, and then the Seed and Sew podcast, right? That's the title.

52:54Voices of Your Village is the podcast. Seed and... That's fine. Seed and Sew is where... It's the mothership. So if you go to Seed and Sew or seed.in.sew, S-E-W over on social, We'll we hang out there a bunch. We do a lot of this work in school districts. So if you're a parent tuning in who's like, oh, I want to bring this work to my child's school, you can reach out to us, support at studentshow.org, and we can kind of take it from there. For your teacher or administrator and you want to bring this work into schools, that's what we do for our main source of this work. And excited to get this book out into the world.

53:29Thanks for having me, Hunter.

53:30Hunter Clarke-Fields:Absolutely. Thank you for the work that you do. And thank you for on behalf of all the elementary school age parents who are going to benefit from this enormously. And I always, always love talking to Alyssa. I wish Vermont were closer to Delaware. Same.

53:55Hunter Clarke-Fields:Hey, I hope you liked this episode, appreciated it, found it. helpful all of those things i hope it was it's it's an on net positive in your life this podcast um if it was i would love to know it really makes my day when people tell me so you can let me know i'm at mindful mama mentor on the socials let alissa know makes probably makes her day too i bet um and anyway i hope you're doing well um that's all i got for you i'm just wishing you a great week and I can't wait to talk to you again next week. Thank you so much for being here. Namaste.

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