What Parenting Challenges Teach Us - Dr. Allyson Bates & Dr. Krystal Pong

26:12Dr. Allyson Bates:Do you remember like things that helped you be more self-compassionate to yourself? Anything that made it easier to practice?

26:20Dr. Krystal Pong:yeah well going back to that friend thing I think you know I I viewed talking to myself as a friend and self-compassion very similarly and that really I didn't believe in them I I thought oh well if I'm treating myself as a friend I'm just I'm I'm just being too nice to myself like you know sometimes when I talk to a friend I'm not trying to help them grow I'm just trying to be nice so that they feel better in that moment. And so I thought that way about self-compassion too. I thought, oh, if I treat myself well, that means I'm allowing myself to continue to do this act and not grow from it. So it was difficult for me to get on that self-compassion train in the beginning.

27:09Dr. Krystal Pong:But it turns out, and it really took me knowing this, again, I'm a healthcare professional. So as soon as somebody tells me something research-based, I believe. So anyway, you know, research shows that it's not true at all. Self-compassion actually leads to greater motivation for positive change. And I don't know if I heard it at the right time, but it really sunk into me that, you know, exactly what you're saying, like, you know, what would it have been like to have, you know, further put yourself through suffering by criticizing yourself during a difficult time, you know, nothing positive can come from that.

27:51Dr. Krystal Pong:But I really just felt, you know, I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna change or grow if I treated myself well. But again, that has not been the case since I've been practicing self-compassion. And yeah, when I first started practicing self-compassion, in the beginning, it was a little forced for me because, again, it took a while for me to get on board. And, you know, I think I underlying didn't believe what I was telling myself in my self-compassion mantras or breaks. And, you know, I think that that's okay in the beginning when you're learning a new skill for something to maybe not feel that authentic at first.

28:34Dr. Krystal Pong:But I think it also took, again, me genuinely believing that it's okay that I did something that wasn't how I wanted it to go. And that really the best thing I can still do for myself is treat myself well. And then having big reactions and big emotions tell you something. They should be enlightening to tell you ways that you can't, you know, maybe there's something going on in your life, like, you know, you had a big life event happen. So maybe you had to find other ways that could support you in grieving and coping in that time. And that's what your focus needed to be on. So I think, you know, it's a tool to learn as well.

29:21Dr. Krystal Pong:And when you're in a self-criticizing mode, you're often just stuck in that event. rather than moving forward onto the next, you know, how to solve and, you know, make your life more congruent to what you need at that time. So yeah, a lot of it for me was really a mindset shift. And then also accepting that I'm human, and that I have a threshold. And there's a lot of different analogies for thresholds. But just a really simple one that I always think of is, you know, we have a bucket and at some point it can get too full and spill over. And, you know, there's a lot of different things that fill up this bucket and, you know, a lot of different factors at play and some I might have control over and some I don't.

30:12Dr. Krystal Pong:So for example, you know, I also had a big life event where my family is currently displaced because we have a mold issue in our home. So we just, in under a month, packed up all of our belongings and got out of this house and moved out of the state we were in and are, you know, we're staying with my family at the moment and we don't even know where we're going next. So there's lots of uncertainties and a lot of things coming up. So really this bucket for me is a little, it's fuller than usual. And there really isn't that much room left for other things like work stressors or lack of sleep or sensory overstimulation before that bucket gets too full and spills over.

30:59Dr. Krystal Pong:So it really took for me, like again, believing that there's a justification for what's going on in my life right now. And I genuinely believe that it's okay to have, you know, reached this limit because limits exist. And again, I'm human. So yeah, when I live with my son, I was able to then say to myself, you know, this is hard. I'm exhausted. I'm hurt. And, you know, I have a lot going on in my life right now. And I just wanted this moment of rest and I didn't get it. And, you know, then there's that all parents hit their limits, that threshold, right? We all have one. It can look different on different days.

31:45But again, then I can say, you did the best you could in this moment and you're

31:52Dr. Krystal Pong:not perfect and just treat yourself gently and not with shame. So yeah, again, coming back to it, Like it's another thing for the shame component, as I said, like when you are in that shame cycle and you're just focusing on the bad event you did over and over again and not the change that comes after it. You know, thankfully, the self-compassion led to the motivation for change. You know, later that night, I had a conversation with my husband and I was like, look, I lost it. And I, you know, I've been frustrated over and over and over again. It took many, many times for me to finally make the change.

32:30Dr. Krystal Pong:And it really took that huge reaction for me to sit down and talk to my husband and be like, what can I do when he doesn't nap? That's going to help me not lose it every time because I'm tired. And so we decided there was two different things I did after that. I basically made the decision that if my son didn't sleep, then the first thing I was going to do was go outside and be in nature. I was going to use the healing effects of being in nature and then also get inside my body by going on a walk to kind of get out of that part of my brain that's freaking out. And another thing too is again, life routine changes you can make.

33:15Dr. Krystal Pong:Like we did make the decision that if my son woke up after 8 o 'clock, I wasn't even going to attempt a nap that day. And I was just going to go and live our life without that nap. And that just completely got rid of the tension that builds up in that moment because I just have a different plan for that day. So it really took having that big emotional reaction and self-compassion to move forward to this point of what is filling up this bucket? What can I get out of there? What do I need to make changes on? And so such a, again, a gift to myself to move out of that state and focus on treating myself well and what I can do to continue to feel better.

34:03Dr. Krystal Pong:Have you found anything to make it easier?

34:06Dr. Allyson Bates:Yeah. You know, and in your story, though, Allison, like really, I think the beautiful part about it that I'm hearing is is just like very strategic problem solving of like, hey, that happened. I didn't like that that happened. How can we change the situation for next time? Because there will be a next time probably in some flavor. Right. And so like the problem solving you guys came up with was spectacular. And I want to highlight because I could see myself listening to this a few years ago before I embraced self-compassion, before I embraced mindful parenting, and being like, are these people trying to tell me like blowing up at your kid is okay?

34:52Dr. Allyson Bates:because it's not. Like, come on, do better, you know, or something like that. Not to, you know, highlight my judgmental mentality before, but like, you know, I could see people thinking like, blowing up is not okay. And you're right, it's not okay. And treating ourselves with compassion and kindness is a tool to use, not again, not to let us off the hook to say, oh, it's okay that you blew up, no biggie, right? The piece of it is being kind to yourself and meeting yourself with self-compassion so you can have a clearer mind to do better, so that you can be less stressed and more motivated to do better.

35:35Dr. Allyson Bates:I think before, Allison, you and I probably thought like, no, we got to be hard on ourselves so that we do better. And I think a lot of people think that. But the truth is, like I said, when you're hard on yourself, when you're attacking yourself and being attacked, you're in a stressed state, and it's releasing these stress hormones, and it's going to make it harder for us to think of these creative solutions, right? And to be motivated to proceed, right? When we're stressed, we're not our best selves, but when we're kind to ourselves, it can open our hearts to be better. And, you know, and our creative juices will be flowing and just everything is better, I think, when we're kind to ourselves.

36:22Dr. Allyson Bates:I just wanted to throw that out there because I think I probably did listen to things like this and be like, no, blowing up at your kid is not okay. Like the end, like that's not okay, do better, you know? And it's just such a different perspective. I still don't think it's okay. And I meet myself with self-compassion so I can do better.

36:42Dr. Krystal Pong:Yeah, I at least have the perspective too, though, that maybe, you know, it's not okay to blow up your children. But unfortunately, it is inevitable because we are human beings and have emotions. emotions so I think you know it is okay to a certain degree I think it's okay in that you know we can have big emotions and we are human beings that have so many things piling up on us and we we can control a lot of things so I think that that's what we look back on we're like oh we have I could have slept more last night instead of looking at my phone I could have done this and then you you go down a shame spiral of all the things that you could have controlled that maybe you didn't do that led to this.

37:26Dr. Krystal Pong:And I get that. But I think the other perspective too is afterwards, we're modeling something to our children. And children are going to have big emotions all the time developmentally. They don't have a mature brain. And even when you do have a mature brain, the adults, we're going to get into that part of our brain that's going to lose it. So I think it's important to model what happens after big emotions. And if you don't have emotions and you're repressing them in some way as well too, I think that that also can have some negative effects and that you're, again, you're not modeling to your children what you do after big, big emotions happen and that you, again, can make mistakes and do all of these things.

38:15Dr. Krystal Pong:So yeah, I have a, again, it's a lot of my shift, you know, just feeling okay with what's happened and what you've done and that there's positive that's going to come out of this experience.

38:26Dr. Allyson Bates:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, that's a great perspective too, Allison. Thank you.

38:34Dr. Krystal Pong:Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.

38:41Dr. Allyson Bates:Do you find it hard to sleep at night?

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39:22Dr. Allyson Bates:Alistair, how have you brought mindfulness into your day? So yeah, for me, I have had a hard time

39:32Dr. Krystal Pong:staying consistent with formal meditation. I have had wonderful periods where I have been meditating all the time, every day. Even my parents are on that train. They meditate all the time. But I, you know, it drops off at times, you know, like now while I'm, while I was moving. And I think, you know, what is always 100 % consistent for me is, you know, those quick, easy, you know, integrated into your daily routine acts that stick around the longest. Um, so I practice, um, self-compassion breaks, um, and I follow Kristen Neff's three steps. And I do this often after the difficult moments that I'm having, um, like I did with my son, but this can also be a preventative thing just to have compassion for yourself throughout your day.

40:25Dr. Krystal Pong:It doesn't have to be after a big blow up. Um, but yeah, again, in my, the Kristen Neff's three steps are the first one is mindfulness. and then common humanity. And then that last one is speaking to yourself with kindness. So again, when I lost it with my son, I first recognized that I was in this emotional state and I grounded by getting into my senses. So I was, you know, being mindful and aware at that time. And then I reminded myself that I'm a human being with limits and all people have limits, so that common humanity component. And then the last one was I repaired with myself, not just with my son, but with myself.

41:12Dr. Krystal Pong:And then had some actual reflection afterwards. So that last kindness component. And then two other practices I do that again is just a part of my daily routine every day is just informal practices where I talk to my wandering mind and I tap into my senses. So it's pretty similar to what you do in formal meditation in that you're picking up when you're not on your breath or whatever you're focusing on in that moment and then coming back to the present and focusing on your breath, which is just, again, getting in tune with their body. But I do this informally, like when my son is playing, for example, I might notice that I'm ruminating on something or I'm trying to solve, you know, a problem or what I'm going to do for dinner.

42:13Dr. Krystal Pong:and I'll just say, hey, wandering mind or anxiety brain, I see you there. I know you're trying to help me. You're trying to help me figure out what I have to do for dinner, but I don't need you right now. Right now, I'm focusing on being with my son. I'm just going to put you in a box and put you over here for right now. Maybe I'll even, if I need to, pick a time that I'm going to come back to something so that I can really get it, you know, not at the forefront of my brain at that time. But yeah, this has been a practice that helps me just come back again and again to the present moment without judging myself.

42:56Because again, it's the condition of, you know, our minds

43:01Dr. Krystal Pong:to wander and focus on something else and get into that analytical side of our brain. So yeah, again, the next step is, um, tabbing into my senses. So once I've talked to my brain and it can be way shorter than that, I don't have to do that whole nice long monologue with my brain. I can just be like, Hey, I don't need you right now. I'm going to watch what my son's doing. Um, but then yeah, I tap into my senses. So if my son's playing, I'm just gonna, you know, again, feel my body on the ground while I'm playing with him. I'm gonna, or the toy in my hand. I'm gonna like look at my son's hands while he's playing, has spatial expressions, maybe the light coming in.

43:41Dr. Krystal Pong:I'm going to notice the noises that are coming up. You know, you can get into all five senses, but it doesn't even matter. It doesn't have to be that formal. It's just really what you pick up on in your senses. And again, it just gets you out of that analytical side of your brain and into your right side of your brain where you're really focusing on being present in the moment through tapping into your senses. So yeah, I just do that over and over again throughout the day whenever I am with my family and I want to be present. And, you know, it's possible that because I have practiced formal meditation so many times, that just becomes easier for me to integrate into my day informally like that.

44:25Dr. Krystal Pong:So it's possible that that is also why that's easy for me. But I just think, you know, a lot of people think I got to sit for 20 minutes a day and then that's gonna you know flow over into the rest of my day and my week and you know but it can just be something that you incorporate into your daily life and activities um again even like i go in the shower or do something you just pay attention to uh you know the temperature um there's just so many different ways to incorporate it into your your daily life without doing formal meditation and it's still training your brain to get into the present moment over and over again.

45:03Dr. Krystal Pong:And it doesn't require you having to get away from your family and sit down on a cushion or anything as well too.

45:09Dr. Allyson Bates:Allison, do you ever do the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 senses? Yes, I do that.

45:16Dr. Krystal Pong:I do that often. I think my only thing on that is there are some senses that are more calming or less calming for people. So sometimes in the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, especially if my son is having a tantrum, I'm like, I don't really want to tap into my sounds right now. I'm just going to focus on, for me, what's most calming is visually things are calming for me. So sometimes I do love 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and that is like a formal practice to help guide people. But again, I think that's also something that you can adjust to what your body's telling you is calming for you. It can be that you just skip the sound or the taste or whatever, and you just focus on two senses that are super calming for you, and you just tap into those as well.

46:14Dr. Allyson Bates:So for listeners who don't know, the 5-4-3-2-1, do you want to run through it, Allison, you want me to? Oh, you got it.

46:20Dr. Krystal Pong:Go for it.

46:20Dr. Allyson Bates:Okay. So you start with five. So it's five, four, three, two, one. And you start with five things you can see. So you look around for five specific things you can see and jump in, Allison, if you want to add anything. But five specific things you can see, like I see this picture, I see this tree, I see this, I see that. And then four things that you can hear. So then you listen in and focus in like, I hear this bird chirping, I hear the truck driving by. I hear this. I hear that. And then three things that you can touch. Yeah, touch. So you can like, oh, I feel the seat beneath me. I feel like the texture of my pants or I feel, you know, whatever you're feeling.

47:07Dr. Allyson Bates:And then two is the two things you can smell. So smell, take a deep breath and smell what you could smell and identify those things. And then the last one this taste. And I feel like, yeah, I think you're right, Allison. Like if you're kind of new to this, that could be a really nice one just to kind of get grounded, get back in your body. And then if that's helpful for people, then maybe, or maybe just like playing around with it to see what helps. And for me, it could be like if I'm, you know, at the park with the kids and I'm like on my phone and I'm like, oh, wait, no, I want to be present instead.

47:42Like let's just really

47:43Dr. Allyson Bates:quickly like get back in the moment or if I'm kind of seeing red if I have a moment of clarity where I can do that um I wonder for me I wonder if like the structure is kind of helpful to me like just to especially if I'm like stressed or distracted just to like have a structure of like okay I'm looking for five things okay now I'm looking for four things or you know I agree

48:07Dr. Krystal Pong:usually I I teach this to beginners that are doing mindfulness and I just say you know this is it's it's nice to have structure in the beginning because again, you're, you're learning a new skill. So, and again, exactly what you said, like you're maybe not in the part of your brain you want to be in and that you're just, it's easy to follow a structure. But I think the more you practice, you know, you can just evolve it and you can again, decide what is, um, what's resonating with you. What's not, how can you adjust this practice to better meet what you're, what's calming for your nervous system and nod.

48:43And yeah, so that's one thing I really like too, is like, you can learn these practices and it's great to have these guides, but then tune into

48:52Dr. Krystal Pong:what's working for you.

48:55Dr. Allyson Bates:Totally. And I remember one of the things in your day-to-day mindfulness practice was your gratitude that you do with your family, which I have copied since we last talked about it? Do you want to talk about your gratitude? I love your gratitude practice when you talk about that.

49:14Dr. Krystal Pong:Yeah, we, every night, we always say three things that we are grateful for right before going to sleep, my husband, my son, and I. And it's just so easy to implement because it's, you know, everybody has a bedtime routine. And it's like the last thing that we do at the very end. And And it just is such a positive way for us to reflect on our day and what we enjoyed. And also just kind of like for my son, who's still young at two, kind of like, you know, do a little story script summary of our day. You know what I mean? Back to each other. So we love that practice. And I'm glad that you're enjoying it too, Crystal.

49:57Dr. Krystal Pong:It's a great one. Yeah. It's awesome. I love it. Yeah. I think, you know, it's, again, we've talked also about in general, whenever you're picking up a new, something that you want to implement into your life, it's just so great to do it in a routine that already exists. So I think that that is why that gratitude practice is so great. Like some people are like, oh, I want to do gratitude. I'm going to sit here and I'm going to open up a journal and I'm going to write it all down. But then I'm like, I don't have time to do that. Right? So like, let's, let's, again, that's the same thing that happens with a lot of people with formal meditation is they're like, I got to go sit down for 20 minutes and do that away from my kid.

50:31Dr. Krystal Pong:to really focus on it. And I'm not saying that, again, those aren't great practices, but if you're in the thick of things, you have young kids or something going on, just think about what routines you already have that exist and ways you can just seamlessly just add in these small things, again, like gratitude practice or just, again, something that's just inside your head anyway in your regular daily routine, like talking to your wandering mind or getting into your senses. Like the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, nobody has any idea that you've just done that. You know what I mean? You just were in your own, it was instead of looking at your phone, that's what you were doing.

51:08Dr. Krystal Pong:So.

51:09Dr. Allyson Bates:Yeah, I love that. And yeah, and talking about like incorporating into existing routines, like I think we, you know, like habit stacking, so you already have this habit, like what can you just kind of add on to a habit? But one of my favorite things I learned from a book called Joy on Demand was that anytime you're waiting, let that be a cue to take a deep breath. So if you're waiting in line at the grocery store, if you're waiting for a stoplight, if you're waiting for your computer to reboot or, you know, any you're waiting for your kid to come off to come out of school in the pickup line or whatever it is you're doing, that involves waiting.

51:49Dr. Allyson Bates:because sometimes people get frustrated or antsy when they're waiting, but to switch it to taking a deep, mindful breath in that moment or a gratitude practice or whatever it is, there's so much waiting kind of baked into our day already. So why not use it for something so spectacular, right?

52:09Dr. Krystal Pong:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love connecting with the crystal and the listeners. We appreciate Hunter letting us share our experiences with everybody here today. And Crystal, before we go, if people are looking for you, where can they find you?

52:24Dr. Allyson Bates:Yeah, thanks, Allison. And yes, thank you, Hunter, for this opportunity. We're so, so grateful for the opportunity. I think it came with a lot of reflection and learnings for ourselves too. But folks can find me. I'm a mindful parenting and wellness coach. I help busy parents enjoy the journey and build sustainable, healthy habits. I provide group and one-on-one coaching, and I have some awesome online courses, and I offer the mindful parenting course too, of course. My Instagram is dr.crystal.crystal.com.

53:08Dr. Allyson Bates:And you can get helpful guides there, like the one minute mindfulness for moms and kids, or the bouncing back after losing your cool toolkit. So please check it out because I would love to support you in living your happiest, healthiest life. Allison, where can folks find you?

53:24Dr. Krystal Pong:Yeah, again, I'm also a mindfulness coach and I am an occupational therapist and I provide services to families. So you can find me on Instagram at eat.play.rest or you can go to my website, which is eatplayrestot.com. So yeah, thank you again, everyone. We enjoyed being here and a part of the Mindful Mama podcast today. Yes, thank you.

53:56Dr. Krystal Pong:I hope you enjoyed this episode. I think this is such a great example of like parenting is messy and that's why mindfulness helps, right? But we're not going to get it perfect. So anyway, I hope this episode helped you feel seen and heard and all of that. If you want more information about the mindful parenting teacher training, or you want some freebies, or you want to check out some courses or coaching or anything that could help you on this journey, go to mindfulmamamentor.com. Go there. If you want to bring me in to talk, that'd be fun. Let's do that. But yeah, go to mindfulmamamentor.com.

54:35Dr. Krystal Pong:Thank you so much for listening. I hope this helped you. And I'm wishing you a week with calm and peace and some hugs and some smiles and some time to yourself. How does that sound? And I'll be rooting you on. Wishing you all the best. Namaste.