Why Smart, Loving Parents Still Lose It (And What That Tells Us) - Cassidy Freitas

0:00Hunter Clarke-Fields:Hi, it's Hunter Clarke-Fields, author of Raising Good Humans. If you've ever thought, I wish I could help other parents the way I've been helped, this is for you. The Mindful Parenting Teacher Certification Program is now open for enrollment. You'll deepen your mindfulness, learn to lead powerful parenting groups, and join a supportive, heart-centered community. Are you ready to make a difference? I only take a very limited number of people into this program, so apply now. Visit mindfulparentingcourse.com slash teach. You're listening to the Mindful Mama podcast, episode number 592. Today, we're talking about why smart, loving parents still lose it with Dr.

0:38Hunter Clarke-Fields:Cassidy Freitas.

0:42Hunter Clarke-Fields:Welcome to the Mindful Mama podcast. Here, it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. At Mindful Mama, we know that you cannot give what you do not have. And when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clark-Fields. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children. I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years. I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting course and teacher training, and I'm the author of the international bestseller, Raising Good Humans, Raising Good Humans Every Day, and the Raising Good Humans Guided Journal.

1:21Hunter Clarke-Fields:Hi, welcome back to the Mindful Mama podcast. So glad you're here. A big welcome, of course, if you're new, there's so many episodes for you to look back on. It's crazy. So we're at 592 and we are talking with Dr. Cassidy today about moving from reactivity to self-trust. And if you've lost your temper and you feel some shame about it, the way I have in the past, this is an important episode for you. This is one of the most deeply human moments of parenting. And I think it's really important for us to bring it out in the open and to talk about what's really happening there and how we can understand our nervous system so that we can make better choices and understand that sometimes there isn't even choice involved.

2:14Hunter Clarke-Fields:And so we have to really have some compassion for ourselves as well. So you're going to get so much out of this. Dr. Cassidy is a licensed marriage and family therapist, host of Holding Space, and author of Mom Needs a Moment. So I know you're going to get so much out of this. Join me at the table as I talk to Dr. Cassidy.

2:40Hunter Clarke-Fields:Cassidy, thank you so much for coming on the Mindful Mama podcast. Oh, this feels so good. I'm so excited to be here. than a huge fan of the podcast for so long. And it's really meaningful to get to be here with you today. That's so cool. I love talking about this and this topic, but I want to dive into it with you in a different way. And I was thinking about like, so anybody who sits down and listens to a podcast called the Mindful Mama podcast is caring. They're conscientious and yet we're hit I include me in this because we're hit with so much shame when we lose it, right? So why do parents who care the most feel the most shame after we have a problem?

3:30What a beautiful question. And I would love to talk about this in a way that's really personal and like just about this morning, just this morning. So I've got three kids, 5, 11, and 14. So as you and I were talking about before we hit record, I'm doing the splits, you know, between these different ages and the splits hurt sometimes. But it's also pretty cool. Gives some cool perspective too. But my five-year-old is in this stage right now where she goes through, like it could be within like in a 10-minute span, like four outfit changes. And, you know, it's leading to mess. It's leading to she needs help each time that she's getting dressed, right?

4:13Right. It's getting it's difficult to get out the door. And, you know, I lost it this morning. And like, what do we mean by like lost it? Right. What is what did I lose? You know, we could say I lost my cool like I lost my steadiness. And what I really lost, though, was my regulation. and you know as a parent just like the parents who are listening to this podcast who is aware of like what these moments mean and like felt that ping of like oh this doesn't feel good right like this isn't how I want to be showing up right and like seeing her face reflected back to me of like that of like you know the eyes going wide of like you know whoa mom just yelled like you know I'm scared in this moment of like this reaction I feel it because I know it's not aligned right I have that sort of awareness but I'm also human a human who's imperfect a human who gets dysregulated a human who you know was just recently sick is about to start my period like just has my own parts that hate being late, right?

5:28That really just want to get out the door. And I deeply care also about how I show up as a parent. And what's so interesting, I think, about the guilt-shame spiral is a part of this cycle that I think people don't talk about often enough is that when I first lost it, like that dysregulated part of me, that stress response, that fight response, you know, jumped in the driver's seat. When it first just like came out, there was a moment where it actually felt kind of good to let it out, to just be like, stop, like, you know, like no more outfit changes. Like, look at this mess. Like we need to go.

6:10right and there was a moment where it like it stopped her from like whining about wanting a new outfit right complaining and like there was a moment where just that that release felt good and then the shame spiral from there right of like you know the guilt part would say something like oh like you're doing something wrong here like this is how we want to show up and then the shame part, which can sometimes creep in, is like, what is wrong with you? There's something so deeply wrong with you that you would respond in this way and actually feel good about it for a moment. And I think that the reason someone's probably tuning into this episode is they've had that moment because they're human and because they deeply care.

6:56And they're wanting to figure out, okay, how do I have less of these moments or notice that ping of starting to feel dysregulated and create some space so that I then don't have that big response? And also, how do I feel less alone in having the moment where it also feels good to just let it out or to know that you're not alone in the fact that these moments are going to happen? And I think in our day and age, it's so easy to compare ourselves to some idealized, curated version of motherhood. And so that's why I think someone's tuning in. And the fact that they're tuning in shows that they care, how deeply they care.

7:38They want to do something different here. And that's actually a big antidote to this shame spell, right? It's feeling less alone, feeling connected to someone else that, you know, is talking about these vulnerable moments as well so that you see that it's not just you. and to recognize that like this doesn't make you a bad mom or a bad parent this makes you human and dysregulated you know and probably have some unmet needs there yeah yeah and yeah you know and

8:09Hunter Clarke-Fields:our and our kids need to see that sometimes that their behavior really frustrates people like sometimes it's interesting because it's it's interesting because you and i do similar work where we're helping people to become more regulated and to show up, be the parent they want to be. And we know that yelling scares kids, puts them into fight, flight, or freeze. If you're yelled at a lot, you tend to tune it out. There's a lot of not great stuff if you're yelling and scaring your kid a lot. You're damaging your relationship. Yeah, at the same time, I feel like, well, also like part of regulation, like there's a line between regulation and then repression, right?

8:56Hunter Clarke-Fields:And regulation and, you know, and you have to express these feelings somehow. And there's also like sometimes you also don't want to be a parenting robot to your kids. You know, you don't want to be like, I'm like just a perfect serene goddess floating through the universe and I never get upset. Like we don't want to be that either. Right. Then our kids need to know. That's what I'm saying. Like our kids need to know sometimes that they're whatever they're doing is really deeply frustrating. to the people around them. And so it's interesting because we're like, it's like a balance between, yeah, we want you to have these tools to, to process in these, these big, you know, these intense feelings of frustration and stuff that come out.

9:46And like, I don't want to say that,

9:50Hunter Clarke-Fields:I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea that Dr. Cassidy and I are saying, like, Like you have to be like serene and perfect and calm all the time because you don't. No. And you're not going to be, right? No. And I think just to what you were saying, like kids, I think that we are built, we are imperfect. And that's actually a beautiful thing to be as a parent because your children are going to be imperfect, right? Like they're going to annoy their spouses one day. They're going to be frustrated by a coworker one day. And they need to know like, whoa, when that happens and there's like a feeling of disconnect or irritation or like I lost it or like someone just lost it on me, like what do we do with that, right?

10:34Like what happens?

10:34Hunter Clarke-Fields:And if I'm just a robot, which I just think is impossible, right? But or if I'm only just trying to like, gosh, I love all the parenting resources we have out these days, right? And like, there's so many scripts and guides and, and I'm, I'm right there too, right. With like doing my best to share these sort of things out there, you know, content and such, but like, because that's really what you can do in a platform like social media, for example. Right. It's like, it's, you're just giving examples. Right. But if you, if somebody like doesn't have a connection to their intuition of like in this moment, actually, what is the most authentic, authentic thing to me for me to say in this moment, like me and my kid, like this.

11:19situation, like our relationship and their specific needs, right? It's going to feel kind of robotic because you're just maybe like, you know, using a script that you came across that you're like, hey, this actually sounds like a beautiful way that I want to show up for my kids. But then if we lose that connection to ourselves as humans who have our own creative ideas and our own needs, and it can all get kind of lost in the shuffle, right? And we can get lost in this era, I think, of just intensive parenting and the pressure.

11:55Hunter Clarke-Fields:Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break. Okay, so when you have a parenting question at 2am, where do you go? Reddit is the only place to get real answers from parents who have actually been there at any time. If you're new to Reddit, think of it as thousands of topic-based communities. There are so many good ones for parenting where you can ask, you know, is this regression behavior normal? And you can get answers from parents who've been there like a second ago. So I have been using Reddit to research for my newest book that I'm working on and working on some toddler stuff.

12:37Hunter Clarke-Fields:And I was reading all about toddler tantrums. And I love the subreddit science based parenting. And there's so many good answers there and so many different subtle experiences that go into their answers. So it's interesting because it was like reading the questions I have been asked me over the years and reading all these answers and people who validation works and it doesn't. It's really, really interesting. And why So parenting, I know it can feel so overwhelming, but Reddit is a place where real parents are swapping advice, venting, and getting the kinds of answers that you can't find elsewhere.

13:15Hunter Clarke-Fields:Whether you're looking for practical guidance, recommendations, or just reassurance that you're not alone. I know parenting doesn't come with a manual. You can find real advice from real parents on the Reddit app. Download the Reddit app and check out the subreddit, Science Based Parenting. I think you'll find a lot there to like. Go ahead and download the Reddit app today. And then your kids will think, just to jump in here, though, like if you're following these scripts because you feel like what I'm what I'm authentically doing is like is I'm maybe I'm authentically getting triggered. I'm getting I'm yelling.

13:53Hunter Clarke-Fields:I'm frustrated. So I'm trying to like follow these scripts and do better. But then there's like a danger. I mean, so there's like, okay, we're practicing skillful means and sometimes it takes a while for things to get into our vocabulary, into our consciousness. And there's a learning cycle. That's great. But also like if we're not allowing ourselves to be ourselves, where our kids can, you know, they sense this and they're learning that it's not okay to be ourselves. Yeah. Right. Totally. And so I think if we ultimately are going to be imperfect, which we are, and if we are going to do this like messy work of trying to regulate our own nervous system and learn like skills and tools ourselves that maybe we've never learned, right?

14:48in parallel to wanting to teach our kids these things too, I think that it's so important to remind ourselves that ultimately, I think the most like bang for your buck moments with your kids is actually when you quote unquote lose it and you're dysregulated and you're human and like they see like your irritation or annoyance of the situation. And then it's the space that we take to reflect on that. Ideally, noticing when a part of us comes in, that part that shows up, the perfectionist part that's like, we got to get this perfect or the shaming part that's like, what's wrong with you? To notice these parts and be like, hey, these parts of me are here to offer me data about the situation that I'm in.

15:36There's pieces in here that might be helpful. Guilt can show up and be like, oof, that wasn't in alignment with our values of how I want to show up.

15:43Hunter Clarke-Fields:Hey, that's helpful, right? Like anger can be data that like, I feel like there's been like a violation of my rights lately. Like I have unmet needs and like I need to meet some of these needs, right? I mean, gosh, comparison even can be, can provide us data of like, here's what other people are doing and it actually looks like something that I'm striving for, but you know, I'm not meeting that. It's data, messengers, right? But if we're able to develop a relationship with these parts of us where they're not jumping in the driver's seat, right? And we're able to identify, okay, here's data information.

16:18Ultimately, what is this telling me that I need right now, right? Or that is the most important to me or that I value in the situation. And then I think in that space, if we take that space and then we come back, I talk about this in my book. I have a story with one of my kids, my middle child, my son. and in the situation, I lost it, right? And it was a bunch of like, really just like old stuff coming up in the moment. He had asked for a chocolate popsicle and I was like in the middle of sending an email. He had already opened it and I looked at him and I was like, dude, like we're not eating chocolate popsicles right now.

16:52And like, you know, he goes in, he's huffing and puffing. I come in, I come in hot and I'm like, you know, if you can't handle this, all the things that we say. It was a really not pretty moment. He tosses the popsicle in the trash and he looks at me and he says, you'll be saying the S word soon. And I'm like, you know, and he's like, you'll be saying sorry. And he like stomps off to his room. You know, I just take a moment, take a margin. I'm obsessed with margins and taking margins for ourselves and how important they are. Take some space to recognize like what was going on for me in that moment, right?

17:32Like it's old stuff. My reaction was bigger than the moment called for. And oftentimes that's a signal that like, it's not just about the moment, right? Like there's some old stuff, old stories there that are kind of jumping in the driver's seat, taking over. And I came in and what I reflected though on in that space before I came in was like, how cool actually that he knew in that moment that my reaction wasn't about him. There was a part of him that knew the way he said it was funny, right? Like you'll be saying the S words, you know? And I'm like, oh my God. And he's like, you'll be saying sorry.

18:07He knew I was going to come in and say sorry. He knew that there would be a moment for repair, right? Because that has become familiar to his little body and these moments when mom gets loud, gets scary. and I grew up in a home where my mom never said sorry I never heard her say sorry until I became an adult and like was doing this work and had a conversation with her actually about it you know um and that like as as ugly as that behind closed door moment as as that was right and not something that like gosh I you know feel really proud of it was also a reflection of like Like these moments can be really messy and like really meaningful things can happen in those messy moments.

18:54When I came in and I just shared with them, hey, you know what? You're right. I am sorry. I wish I'd handled that differently. I was frustrated that like you grabbed a chocolate popsicle and like you know that like it's just not chocolate popsicle time. But I also remember being a kid and being like when hunger hits and like chocolate popsicles are yummy and like preferring that over waiting or another option. That actually makes a lot of sense, you know. And in that space, I think that's where the magic happens, right. It's like in those conversations of like humanity repair. But what it required was me taking a beat and taking some space in order to recognize what was going on for me and how I wanted to show up in a way that felt authentic to me and to him.

19:41Hunter Clarke-Fields:yeah you had to have the awareness to look at this but also what you're describing is really beautiful is looking at it with curiosity rather than judgment you know you were like okay what's going on not oh my god you know let me just beat myself over the head endlessly which is not productive and not helpful and forgetting to that place of repair um yeah i think that we tend to i i'm i wonder if we're giving ourselves these moments of the mark the margins the moment the beat the the moment to reflect on and to understand and to digest the feelings that have happened i think that it's um it could it might be unusual that we're actually giving ourselves these moments we seem to be just like very go go go do do do and if we've done something bad we're just gonna, I don't know, like, tidy the room, because we're talking, you know what I mean?

20:42Hunter Clarke-Fields:Oh, my God, exactly. Find something we can control. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I, I, I talk about this in, in my book, which is called Mom Needs a Moment. Like, this is, this is my jam, is how space between triggers and responses are where the magic happens. I know you talk about this and how margins both emotionally, physically, relationally, how margins in space are so critical for regulation and breaking cycles. And yet in our modern day life, if you, I talk about this in the book, if you were to imagine like a magic calendar that just like populated everything that you do in a day, and I'm not just talking the appointments, but like the moments that you spend scrolling on your phone, like the moments of responding to an email, the like moments that you're driving and your children are bickering in the background or like asking all these obscure questions about life and death that you're trying to answer, right?

21:45Like if you looked at your calendar and like real, like this magical calendar and really explore like where is there any like margin of space here where I get to just even like process what just happened, right? Like we're standing in line to get coffee and we're all on our phones taking in more information, like getting more data coming in, right? So then it makes so much sense that our nervous systems are for ride, right? And like just on the precipice of like losing a sense of steadiness because our bodies physically, relationally, emotionally need space in order to just allow our brain to figure out how to store what we just experienced, right?

22:29Before we move on to the next thing. And I don't think it's a coincidence that, you know, when you're, say, in the shower, and let's say you're at a stage in life when you can lock the door while you're in the shower and without interruption, that when we're in the shower, that could be a moment where like some of our most like creative ideas can pop up, right? It's because it's like this one space

22:49Hunter Clarke-Fields:where I don't think it's enough for self-care for folks at all, but it is like this one moment where you have like this white noise and the warm water and the steam and you cannot bring your phone in there. If the door is locked, people can't access you. And your brain just gets this chance to be in this like default mode network where you get to actually just reflect and process and creativity can come in. Our brains, our bodies are desperate for that space. And the reason that I talk about this so much in the book is that I found time and time again with my clients, every mom that was coming in, at some point in our assessment of like where she was struggling, at some point she was saying something along the lines of like, I just don't have any space.

23:35Like I need, I need space, right? Like I just needed space in that moment. I need space in my calendar. I need space on the weekend. I need space for myself. My partner and I need space. Like we're just constantly filling up all of our margins And it's really affecting us in our parenting. It makes it really hard to break cycles and to take care of ourselves and show up in our relationships in a way that we want to.

24:02Hunter Clarke-Fields:yeah yeah I think you know I definitely see that I mean I feel that like the effect of the the phone taking over our culture and just the way it is eating up all the space I mean I don't remember like I it's so dumb but like I used to use the bathroom like I used to poop and not and just sit there I remember maybe a long time ago I used to do that but like how hard it is now to poop without our phones but the body used to know how to do that i used to know how to do that and i feel really personally grateful that i have this meditation practice so at least i'm carving out yeah you know 20 minutes of of some space but i i can see myself you know i'm i'm listening to podcasts as i'm puttering around the house i'm uh you know i'm trying to i guess i'm trying to like kind of carve out margins where habit where the habit is not coming in like i i don't listen to things while i go on a walk i guess i don't listen to or or you know when i when i go on a walk or i'm outside i will often even leave the phone at home because my kids are 16 and 19 now which is crazy and um they're gonna survive for whatever a half an hour not being able to reach me and um yeah but it's it's you see it creeping up into the kind of every second and you know and sometimes i go to like i go to like my body pump class at the y and like i would talk to people there maybe if anybody was looking up before class yeah making any kind of eye contact with anybody else but nobody is.

25:52Hunter Clarke-Fields:So it's, it's, it's, it's just every, it's in, it's infected all these parts of our lives. Right. It totally has. And I don't think that the answer here is like, we, it's not realistic for us to say, okay, then we get rid of our phones, right? Or like, we never, it's just this, it's, we've got to, we've got to figure out how to have a healthy relationship with the parts of our very busy, intensive parenting era lives where we're, I think, in some ways trying to optimize everything, right? But we also have so much more that's just at our fingertips that's literally built to keep us sucked in and wanting more, right?

26:39And so we've got to find ways to have a relationship with those parts of ourselves so that we can like model that to our kids, right? One of the reasons I love working with parents is that a lot of times what they come in motivated by is like, all right, I'm a perfectionist or like I never let myself rest or, you know, I'm like constantly feeling on edge and like, you know, putting everyone else's needs before on my own or I am like irritated all the time, right? And like they come in saying, I want to change this now because I have kids. And like that's a motivating factor, right? And actually, you know what?