How The Man Behind Nathan’s Hot Dog Eating Contest Built an Empire

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0:38An interview with the CEO of Major League Eating, George Shea. If you turn on ESPN today, George is the man in the cool hat hosting the annual Coney Island Hot Dog Eating Contest. We talked competitive eating strategies, the anatomy of a great stunt, and got the inside scoop on Joey Chestnut's stunning absence from this year's competition. It's Thursday, July 4th. Let's ride.

1:06Today, we burn bright. Today, we blind the earth with our desire. And while it is still ours, we will bend history to witness this moment, to witness this man. Just listen to that man go. George Shea is an absolute ball of energy. This episode not only made me reconsider my relationship with food, but also what it means to be an entertainer. That was my favorite part. Picking the brain of a showman like George, who many of us have grown up watching every 4th of July, I learned a lot about how to be a better speaker and host. Outside of that, we of course dug into the Joey Chestnut situation, and it sounds like George is just as sad as we are that the world record holder won't be up there this year.

1:53Yeah, no Joey just feels wrong, but George also gave us a few eaters to keep an eye on this year in the most wide open contest in 16 years. My favorite part of the show comes at the end, though. I asked George to introduce Neil as if he was a competitive eater, and it was pretty dang epic, so stick around for that. But before we jump in, a word from our sponsor, Meta AI. There is something so fundamentally human about our search for answers. Resources like Village Elders, books, and even search engines have always been around, but now we have the added advantage of being able to ask AI for help.

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3:37Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EPCLIS. Before starting EPCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Searching for real relief? Ask your doctor about Epglis and visit epglis.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. George, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you on. Thank you very much for having me. It's a very exciting week. It is an exciting week. So in an interview with Morning Brew last year, you said of the hot dog eating contest, what you really want is a controversy about a week out that focuses everybody on the event.

4:13Well, you certainly got it with Joey Chestnut this year. Given how central he's been to the competition, how are you making the most of your first joyless competition in the last 16 years, really? Well, look, without question, the focus a couple of weeks out, a week out, has been amazing for visibility. But throughout the process, I hoped that everything would be resolved and that he would be there, in which case you couldn't beat it, right? Sadly, we were not able to get there. We basically conceded on all points, you know what I'm saying? But he made, you know, it's always been his choice, and he made a choice to be with the troops in Fort Bliss in Texas, which I think is a great tribute to the troops in armed forces.

4:56So we support that 100%. But not having Joey there is going to change the contest dramatically. It really has become almost a tradition to watch him just dominate. And it's really like just watching him put that belt up in the air is part of the whole thing. With that said, it's going to be an amazing contest. So now we have four eaters, maybe five, who are all going to be vying for the top spot. It will not be in the 70s. It will be in the 50s. But they're going to be really, really close. And what we're going to see is Patrick Bertoletti, James Webb, Jeffrey Esper, Nick Wary, and maybe King Yamamoto of Japan really in the hunt for that win.

5:41So it won't be like, how many is Joey going to eat? It might be for the first time in many years. Who is going to win? 100%. And look, I have my own suspicions. I cannot bet. There's lots of betting on this contest. It's going to be, in my view, between James Webb and Jeffrey Esper. That's my guess. But it's really hard to handicap King Yamamoto. And Patrick Bertoletti, remember, Patrick Bertoletti of Chicago, he's ranked number nine in the world. Previously, he was ranked number two. He took a hiatus. During that time, he ate 55 hot dogs and buns. So he can do that. James Webb has never eaten 55.

6:22Jeffrey Esper has never eaten 55. So Patrick has that path behind him. He might be able to do it. Is the 4th of July the best conditions for eating hot dogs, the best venue in terms of it's very hot, it's outside? Is that the best venue for it or is, you know, could the record be broken elsewhere, indoor AC? Well, it's a very interesting question. So it is the best conditions given that it is the granddaddy of them all in the heat, in the water, in the humidity, no matter what. That is the standard. However, you are entirely correct. If you go indoors, temperature controlled, Joey's going to really get up there in the mid-70s and everybody else will be elevated.

7:05All ships will rise. But it is very difficult in the heat. And in many ways, it is among the most intense contest. The pressure from the media, the pressure on the timing, and then the actual heat of the event, like the physical heat of the event, all make it very difficult. Does this whole episode make you think, like, we need to get another Joey Chestnut? We have to get an heir to the throne. Are there any prospects out there that could possibly fill his shoes, like any glizzy Mozart that you're seeing? Yeah. Well, this is what you're always looking for, that Mozart, that unknown, the child out there, the future, the one eater.

7:42But I personally don't see anybody who can get in the mid-70s. I just don't. And you'd really need someone of very significant physical stature. Joey's quite broad. He's about 6 '1", but he's very big. Like, not heavy. He's just big, his frame. And then on top of that, he has trained. And training doesn't mean just quantity, although he certainly does do that, I understand. I've never seen that. But it's how do I eat the hot dogs? How do I get them in my mouth in the most efficient way? So while he's dunking, he's chewing. and while he's doing that, he's breathing in between. So I don't know the exact rhythm, but the rhythm is amazing because if you think of eating 70-something hot dogs or, for that matter, 50 hot dogs in 10 minutes, you are really talking about a process that you can't just do casually.

8:35You just simply can't. It's truly staggering. I've never thought about eating 50 hot dogs in 10 minutes. You see LeBron dunk a basketball, but in the same vein is someone who's eating 50, 70 hot dogs. It truly is amazing. Let's shift gears to the media side of a little bit. After the Joey Chestnut thing spilled over, Netflix swooped in and announced this big Labor Day hot dog eating contest, pitting Joey against his longtime rival Kobayashi. Are you worried about Netflix or another streamer coming in and maybe taking the spotlight away from your Coney Island event? Well, yeah. I mean, no. The issue there is Joey came to us during negotiations, came to us late and said, I've already signed with Netflix.

9:15He didn't say Netflix. He said a streaming platform. We guessed Netflix because that was out in the ether. I've signed with Netflix and I've signed with Impossible. He didn't mention the Impossible brand. So those two things happened before we ever had a conversation. Netflix was not responding and saying, we'll save you, Joey, right? Like we'll do a contest. That was already planned. We didn't, you know, I think I speak for a lot of people and I say, you know, Netflix is going to do this. Imitation is certainly the greatest form of flattery. You know, what are they going to do? They're going to try to do the intros like I do them.

9:50Is someone going to be up in a straw hat? They better not do that. But, you know, like to me, I think it's great. It's great for the fans. It's great for Joey. I assume they're making some money. So I'm all for that. That's fine. The conflict really came from the other issue, the rival brand. The Impossible Foods thing. Rewinding a bit, why was the 1990 hot dog eating contest, such a formative experience for you? Well, look, when I started in 88, Jay Green ate 13 hot dogs and buns. And even I was, I hate to say this, he's a great American. I was not impressed. I was not blown away. And those were the dark days of the contest.

10:29You know, it was not a great era. Then in the early 90s, Mike DeVito and Frank Hollywood De La Rosa came, pushed it up into the early 20s, right? And then you start saying, well, that's actually quite a bit. And then when Hirafumi Nakajima came in the mid-90s, 95, 94, he ate 24 and a half. Ed Crotty at the time ate 24 and a half. I thought we were at the upper limits of performance at that time. We were not. Because then Kobayashi came in 2001, 50, 5-0 hot dogs, blew everybody away. And an interesting point, you earlier asked, could anyone ever beat Joey? I can't even imagine it. And yet at the time, I could not imagine anyone beating Kobayashi, but Joey did.

11:20Well, we did have a question. What is the competitive eating record that will never be broken? Do you think it's this 71 from Chestnut? So Chestnut has done—he did 74 on July 4 in 2020, and 76 after that. I cannot imagine 76 being broken, and this is why. Right now, as best I know, it would have to be done by Joey, and doing it on the 4th of July in those circumstances is very hard. Let's set up a little exhibition match for him. Other, I want to talk about the idea of spectacle. You clearly saw the potential for spectacle early on in Mason's hot dog eating contest. Is there anything you look at today, be it sport or something else, and say, man, this should be getting more attention if they just knew how to market it properly?

12:14Where do you see an opportunity space right now? Well, you know, it's an interesting thing. How do you match what I like to do with the contest with other sports? So you have something like cornhole, which, frankly, I have to say, just even the name, the whole thing just seems so awkward to me. But I understand a lot of passion about that. A sport like that could use some more personality, in my view. OK, they're doing a great job. But in my view, they could use some more energy. Because is anyone ever going to look at cornhole and say, like, I got to watch that? You know what I'm saying? And it's like curling in Canada.

12:53There's a real art there, right? But have you ever heard someone say, well, I would love to, but I'm going to be watching the curling match? No, because you need to bring energy on top of it. If you're watching basketball with a live audience, football, it is right there for you, the physicality of it, the energy of it, the drama of it. There are many sports where that is not the case, eating included. If there was just an eating contest with 15 guys or gals just eating with no host, you'd walk away, right? So that is what I would like to bring to a lot of things. Do you know what sport I once saw?

13:30Pillow fighting. The pillow fighting started a league about 15 years ago. And I was like, how did we not think about this? This is perfect. But it wasn't because it was just too cute, right? And they got a sponsorship from Budweiser, as I recall. And we were just going, what are we doing? We should have done that, too. But it didn't work. There is something about competitive eating that maybe it's like if mom doesn't like it, it's got to be fun. Something about it. Or we are all obsessed with food, taking pictures of our of our lunch for Instagram. Something about competitive eating matched with the energy of the hosting really works.

14:06What did you see in eating? I saw personally back in the day absurdity and I saw public relations possibilities. So when I was doing this, my boss, who's still alive at that time, he was my boss, Morty Matz, turns 100 in July. OK, great press agent with Max Rosey back in the day doing the contest. And when I was first there, one of the guys cheated and there was a cop there. And Matz goes, get the cop to arrest him. Get the cop to arrest him. And I was going, well, you ruined the contest. That would be so embarrassing. He goes, what are you talking about? There'll be controversy, right? So you really learned about what the contest could be in those moments.

14:51And, you know, as you've seen, there's lots and lots of ways to expand it through stunts, etc. And your wife is a writer for WWE and a former soap opera producer. What have you learned from her about creating spectacle? You know, it's so funny. So she was a soap opera executive producer and director for many, many years. And then coincidentally, when all the soaps went out in New York, she was out, right, like as everybody was. And she got a job with WWE. Now, I had been doing this for 25 years at the time, and she knew all about it. But it's actually, there are real parallels between what they call their promos or whatever they call them and what we're doing.

15:32I had never watched WWE. I'm not lying. I had never watched. I knew Chief J. Strongbow. I knew all the stars and I knew what the platform it was, but I never watched it. So I began watching it a little with her. And she's a great promo writer. She's now head of content for AEW, which is a rival league. And, you know, what I realized is theatricality, which we were already doing, is even more critical. Because if you look at what they're doing, people know it's scripted. it doesn't matter, right? Because we are all hardwired for narrative. And even if we know it's scripted, we're going to feel those emotions.

16:16And that's what I'm doing on stage. What I'm doing is both silly and dramatic. And the line I'm walking is, is he joking or is this real? Because this is funny, but I'm also sort of getting goosebumps, right? Like that's the walk that I'm doing. All right, George, we'll be right back. Don't go anywhere. I'm Christian McCaffrey, pro running back, and Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of the NFL. I'm not kidding when I say NFL by Abercrombie broke the internet last year, and I think this season's lineup is even cooler. And so does my wife, who keeps stealing all my hoodies. Stay fit for the season and Abercrombie's newest arrivals.

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17:08When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp. The secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. I do want to go back to the origins of Major League Eating. After seeing this contest play out before you, what made you stop and say, I want to turn this into a league. I want to create a governing body of it.

17:48Take me through the process of forming Major League Eating. So everything with Major League Eating, no business plan, no plan at all, no strategy. And look, you know, if you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. That's what my father says. And that's where we are. But what happened was we were getting some real traction on the eating contest. But then I thought to myself, you know, we should do a league. And I said, what would be the most absurd league there is? The International Federation of Competitive Eating. And so I created a seal with this great designer, Rod, from Philadelphia.

18:22And it had like two griffins with mustard and ketchup. It had a Latin inscription, Invoro Veritas, which means in consumption or over consumption, there is truth. A little nod to Harvard there. And, you know, so we did that just as a lark and we created a website. I literally did it on like Dreamweaver or something like that. This is 1998, 1999, whenever it was. just for fun. And then we began calling media on Nathan's behalf, not from a PR firm, but from the International Federation of Competitive Eating. And you'd get on there and say, I'm George Shea. I'm calling from the International Federation of Competitive Eating.

19:02We have an event. And they go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. The what? And then they go, bang, you're in. We want to do an interview. Stories about it. Because of just the fun and the lighthearted nature of it. And reporters are a very specific group. Like they're very sophisticated and they have a very sophisticated and cynical sense of humor and they really liked it. And that's the origin of it. But the interesting thing is it was all a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? Once we did that, we started getting calls from people saying, I know you're the league. Would you run some contests for us? And we said, yes, we will.

19:36You know what I'm saying? And it all became that. One other thing, I won't, I know I talk on and on, so I won't distract too long, but you were talking earlier when we were talking about stunts. One time when we were getting going in 93, cynics would say that my buddy Kevin, on the floor of his apartment, created the mustard belt out of a weight belt and some jewels, okay? I, of course, said it was created by the descendants of Fabergé himself. But whatever you believe, the belt came back, right? So we got a big story in the post. The belt is back from Japan. It's been lost for 20 years in Japan.

20:11But we won a certain contest, and so they sent the belt back. Big, huge story in the Post. Went national on AP, went global. The Japanese heard about it and sent three eaters to get the belt back. They got the belt back, and the belt went to Japan. So everything we've done is a self-fulfilling prophecy. What are the ingredients of a good stunt? Well, you know, the issue is a good stunt has to tease and slightly mislead while being known for the stunt it is, right? Two good stunts that I did not do. Morty Matz, way back in the 60s, represented 10-10 winds. And so he set up a stunt where a historian, an archaeologist, lost a hieroglyphic slab, like a priceless hieroglyphic slab, in a taxi cab.

21:16I've read the stories. Stories all over the New York Times. Slab lost. And then they got the slab, right? And they brought it to the Brooklyn Museum for one of their archaeologists to read it. And he read it and it said, everybody's mummy listens to 1010 wins, right? I mean, so you can't get down on him. First of all, on Coney Island, you can say anything you want. You can't get down on him for that because it's just fun. It's not a lie. It's fun. So getting back to competitive eating, what are the areas of growth that you're most excited about? For me, if you take a look at this year, we have six eaters from countries around the world.

21:55We have Thailand. We have Australia. We have the UK. We have Canada, Japan, on and on, right? And Brazil. So that is very exciting to me because what you're seeing here is there are a lot of people doing food challenges globally. That all came from competitive eating because it really didn't used to exist. Also, the Internet didn't exist. So maybe both of those forces created that. But you've got great guys coming in, and women, Mayoye Abihara on the female side. And to me, seeing it become global is really fun. Now, we do events globally. England, we just did an event in Thailand and Bangkok last year, and the winner's going to be here.

22:41The difficulty is a critical component, as we've discussed in my view, is the presentation. So you can't go to Thailand. I can't go to Thailand or Spain and do what I do. Right. You'd have to have a co-host. So so that's that's a tricky thing. But it's gotten to the point where they're just OK with just the eating, not the not the show. Why doesn't pizza have a marquee eating contest? Seems like in terms of American foods, 1A, 1B, hot dog pizza. Is there something inherent to eating pizza that makes it less compelling than eating hot dogs? Yes. So this is a big thing that we go through all the time.

23:18I talk to new clients all the time. We want to do a contest. We're thinking pizza. We're thinking this, that, and the other. Well, those are boring. No one's going to get behind it. We've done pizza contests. We've done great ones, but they're never going to connect. What you want to do is lobster in Maine in August, right? You want to do chicken wings in Buffalo on Labor Day, which we do at the National Buffalo Wing Fest. You want to do something that has some magic, right? Baked beans, even kimchi. Do you see what I'm saying? They're 10 pounds of baked beans in a minute 45, okay? But you want to do something where people are going, hard-boiled eggs, as basic as they sound, is actually great because you have cool hand Luke setting this, I think it was 50 hard-boiled eggs in an hour, Mickey Sudo can eat 104 hard-boiled eggs in eight minutes.

24:08That has some panache. And pizza just doesn't have that. I mean, you could do a pizza contest in New Haven. Well, you know, I'm not saying pizza doesn't have it. We've done pizza contests with great success. Also, the good thing about pizza is everyone knows the benchmark, right? Like, I can eat, if I get a regular-sized, full-sized pizza, I can eat four slices. If I eat five, I've really gone too far. But so if someone eats 27 slices, everybody knows that's a lot of pizza. But what you're talking about, is there a food with magic? And I would say the one that's closest to hot dogs is chicken wings.

24:45Yeah. It's so approachable because we've all had a chicken wing. We've all had a hot dog or two and we've all had a slice of pizza. And the unit is correct. Right. You're talking the 50s, 70s, like we can all comprehend that. A pizza slice can be small. It can be big. It's a little harder to comprehend. This is very true. But the unit volume of a hot dog is just universal, and I think that is one thing that lends hot dog to be the supreme competitive eating food. That's quite true. Hamburgers are not universal, right? And hard-boiled eggs essentially are, depending on you can get different sizes.

25:19Jalapeno peppers. So perfect, right? Patrick Bertoletti, 275 jalapeno peppers. I was there. It was a moment in history. That one connects, right? And you say 275 jalapeno peppers. You don't even have to say in 10 minutes. You don't have to say anything. People are with you. We were talking before the show. Would you ever consider a contest not based on volume? So maybe it's how efficiently someone eats something. Is there any non-volume-based contest that you've played around with? We have done contests. So there's volume or duration, right? So we've done how much you can eat of this in 10 minutes, but we've done here's a bowl, a 20-pound bowl.

25:58How much do you get done? And what happens is the first one who finishes, all right, now you've got two and three. And when you've had your third-place finisher, then the clock stops because you could have someone that takes three hours. You're not going to keep it going. But, yes, we've done duration contests. But the interesting thing is we have found that basically the sweet spot for eating contest, 10 minutes, because you're going to get the volume without doing a 30-minute contest, and then what are you even doing? And then stay away from one minute, two minutes, because you might prompt people to eat too quickly and try to, you know, just in an unsafe manner.