Fitness Expert Stef Williams: I Thought I’d “Bounce Back” After Birth — Then Everything Changed.

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0:30I also didn't realise that C-section was so taboo until I put up my photos on Instagram of us and they were like, Hi, what have you done? How could you cut yourself open and you're fit? Why did you do that? And I was like, oh, I didn't realise it was so offensive. You're going to insult me for my choice about my body and my baby. I'm like, what? It's going to make me feel emotional.

0:57Sorry. it is emotional you don't need to apologize i was breastfeeding um and i've had to stop yeah and like i stopped because i have to work and literally can't do both because like breastfeeding is literally like a full-time job yeah hey welcome to motherkind it is me your

1:14Zoe:host zoe we are very proudly supported by world nutrition's women's supplements today i am joined by steph williams fitness expert personal trainer and founder of we glow and most recently a first time mum. Steph is just four and a half months into motherhood so this is just such an honest, raw, in the moment conversation about her experience of matricence and the enormous identity shift that happens when you become a mother. We talk about the realities of breastfeeding, returning to work after four months, what it's really like trying to run a business while caring for a new baby.

1:58Zoe:We also talk about, of course, exercise, the pressure that she felt to bounce back, how she's pushing back against that. And we explore Steph's journey from becoming personal trainer to hugely successful tech founder and the self-belief that she had to develop and how she did that along the way. Such an open conversation about new motherhood, ambition, entrepreneurship. friendship steph also shares how motherhood has changed her ambition and in many ways made it bigger difference that it makes to me and the show by subscribing wherever you're listening or watching this and please do share this episode i really hope you enjoy it here it is well steph i'm so excited to chat and i just feel like it's so nice for me because quite a few of my guests now have got older children and i'm just loving it because you've Just got a little four and a half month old.

2:51Yeah, he's a little baby boy, chunky, perfect. It's the best. How are you finding it? Honestly, I do feel really lucky and grateful that my birth and the experience was this overwhelming love. Because that's not always the case. No, it's not, which I actually wasn't aware of until I kind of fell pregnant and I started getting served more kind of content around motherhood and pregnancy. And I'm asking my friends and just having like more interest in it. But yeah, just the sense of like awe and love and just, it was amazing. And it's just grown. So I think, but I think as well, I didn't really have expectations on myself or what it would be like.

3:40I just sort of was, I just can't wait. And I think as well, because I didn't know the gender. and so that I think really got me through the last bit of pregnancy as well because I was just so excited I was like what are you like you know it's kind of I haven't put it in my head properly because I don't know if it's a girl a boy and so I think that was kind of made it maybe made it feel more special but yeah like he literally when he they put him on me straight away and just started like sucking my cheek I was like yeah he's a hungry boy but like isn't that mad that like the instinct like straight away he knew like how's breastfeeding been are you doing breastfeeding um I was breastfeeding um and I've had to stop which um like really sad about to be honest with

4:28Zoe:you just because me too I stopped after three months yeah it's really hard yeah so say similar time um but breastfeeding itself I mean I really didn't know what to expect and I actually think it was probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do mentally emotionally because I don't know how you felt but basically because I had a c-section as well so my milk didn't come through for like I want to say almost I mean I was getting the like little bits but nothing like you know you hear these stories like my mum was like oh yeah I came right from the hospital and my tip milk hit the mirror and I was like oh god great I'll just have like milk in abundance and it'll be so easy and it just wasn't coming through it's like tiny tiny bits and it just and I felt like I was letting him down I was like I just need to it's so hard that I had the same yeah did your milk not come through my milk came through but my little girl was tongue-tied and we didn't know so she was kind of you know I thought she was feeding but she basically wasn't getting enough and then she would scream yeah because she was hungry yeah but we didn't know that and so I had to let go of so much of that guilt yeah because I felt so bad that she was just basically hungry yeah she was talking her sucking motion you know the tongue waves she couldn't do that to get what she needed to get yeah and then you do it's kind of this yeah you feel like you're letting this baby down it's like survival mode i just want to be able to provide everything possible and make sure he's as safe and happy and full um and like for me as soon as i breastfed him like the first time i think that love and connection was just like the best thing oh it's gonna make me like feel emotional sorry it is emotional you don't need to apologize no i've actually also got something in my eye now genuinely i'm like uh no but like it doesn't be emotional but i feel like silly that it does but i feel emotional because i've stopped yeah and like i stopped because i have to work and literally can't do both because like breastfeeding is literally like a full-time job yeah um and it's like incredible if you can and again i think that i do feel that guilt that I stopped but also like I did what I could and I've done what's best for me and for him in the long run um but yeah breastfeeding is a journey in itself um I mean the milk did eventually come through but oh my god boys have you got a boy no two girls okay I spoke to my friends about this because I'm like there's never enough like I people were getting like they you know stock the milk up I was literally having to like constantly because I ended up pumping as well like I did that.

7:03Oh, my God. Like, in the day through the night and, like, breastfeeding. I was like, how much more do you need?

7:08Zoe:Pumping is really hard, I think. I did it as well. It's that exclusive pumping thing. Because I was basically pumping, cleaning the pump, or bottle feeding. There was, like, no time to do anything else. It's actually crazy, isn't it? And then your breast, it's like hours of the breastfeeding. Yeah. No, it is actually wild. um but like I'm so grateful for for it and for the experience that I had and I was able to do it in the first place eventually eventually and so did you always know that you would want to start working what is your own business we don't really have kind of yeah what is what is maternity leave but you don't have it yeah so did you did you plan for that did you prepare for emotion like tell us about that because so many listeners will be in the same position yeah so I plan to have like four six weeks off um because we have our business set up we go now in a way that we've got you know a big team and they're able to keep things clogging along in motion and everything they're amazing but also like me and my husband run it together so he had like two and a half three weeks off but you you can't not be yeah in it you just can't yeah and even with those weeks especially for you you're like the face of it it's like you can't disappear i know and that's the thing it's like I haven't worked this hard for the last decade of getting myself in the position I am in yeah and with my business to just like yeah stop completely um but also at the same time having a baby is like once in a lifetime thing maybe and so like I didn't want that you know that newborn that bubble I just didn't want it to be popped and I was like actually nothing else matters and especially when he came I was like I actually just nothing else matters right now it's just about him yeah and so I think my mindset's definitely changed around it because I really thought I'd be back earlier as well I was like I'm not gonna let this like change me or it's gonna I'm gonna be back at it just wait I'll be doing it all yeah and I was like I actually don't want to like I just didn't that's the thing that's quite complicated about it because I asked you that question like did you plan it but the reality is is matrescence which is that transformation that we go through and we become mothers we never know how it's going to impact us yeah for some people who perhaps didn't feel that ambitious before they get this like fire that was probably partly me i was always ambitious but becoming a mom i got this extra fire where i just wanted to be in the world and do stuff for them and for me and because you have another that's right it's like yeah you know i've got a life to create for a family now yeah and then for other people you know there's just no it's so difficult till you're in it yeah and this is the thing i think people with with even advice to give people you can't you can't really and so i think this is why i'm always like quite like positive about it i'm like well it's hard but like what's the point of me saying anything particularly negative i understand that your mom's also going through it but it's also like well until you're in it you don't really understand like i remember messaging my friends being like sorry excuse me why did you not let me in on like yeah what like how hard this I think about that all the time like because obviously because of what I do yeah it's like how much should we prepare women for the reality of what that can be like intressants because it can't it can be absolutely brutal it can be an unravelling it can be none of that right but it's just such a spectrum of experience yeah I think the key is is just to accept the experience that you have and be self-compassionate whatever your experience 100 exactly I think just comparison are you quite good at being kind to yourself have you been these last kind of four months yeah do you know what I think yeah I think I have which again is probably more new because I think I've I'm probably well you're quite driven right type a I imagine you're like well actually I'm very type b with a lot of things oh my god I am that's like a mess like you should see my but when I need but when I need to show up for work yeah yeah it's exactly and I'm perfection with my work things but in life with a lot of things I'm so type B with my friends my friends actually sometimes will message my husband and be like right I've said Steph this date can you just remind her because we're having like a girl's thing here like just so that she's aware she comes and I'm like yeah so is that a new skill being quite kind to yourself yeah so I actually think it is more new and I think I let things go now even with like fitness I really thought beforehand I was like I'll be back up at like training again because also like I love training because it does make me feel so good and it's kind of like my outlet um but also I was just like I actually don't want to have a minute away from him that was honestly how I felt and I was like I actually just don't care for this period that and also because of the breastfeeding he was like on me and he couldn't like we said earlier he'd sleep pretty much on me and then was breastfeeding so I was just like his little oh I do miss that I know you can just like you're just lying there I still have that it's still but he's quite big now and I'm like god did you do you have like the box I used to have a box set on I'd watch like Netflix you know in the background and have a series and I would just sit there and I watched this is us which is like the best thing yeah I just watched the whole thing I just lie there do you know what we actually like i deleted all my social media did you and um like for the first three weeks didn't watch any tv we just listened to jazz music i know that's like weird it's not weird but i had never listened to jazz music before okay that is quite weird like how strange we just had it like on on the tv like just jazz music and that was kind of the but then And actually, no, actually thinking about it going back in the night, I definitely was watching stuff.

12:59I just don't recall. Yeah, well, you're so delirious, isn't it, with the sleep deprivation? I'm actually trying to remember now. Yeah, like I said earlier, I feel like my brain has also just removed so much.

13:07Zoe:I love how you talk about, you know, because there is so much pressure, particularly for you, right? You've built your business around fitness and aesthetic and strength. And, you know, there's such a pressure to bounce back. And obviously I hate that phrase. It's ridiculous. But did you feel any of that pressure? Yeah, to be honest with you, I actually almost felt it when I was pregnant as well. Because you see everyone doing the most when they're pregnant. And for me, my pregnancy wasn't, I don't know how, on the scale of one to ten, but it wasn't amazing. Like I was really unwell and I felt really sad for a lot of it.

13:41That's really common, but not talked about enough. Yeah, and so I think, yeah, I just felt like it wasn't, yeah, just like a sadness. And so then with my workouts as well, like I definitely, like I stopped working out as much. And then my second trimester came back around and I felt like I had more energy. So then I started training a little bit more, but nothing again compared to what I thought I might be like during my pregnancy.

14:07Zoe:Isn't that just a lesson of motherhood? It's like you've just got to let go of expectations and be kind to yourself, whatever presents. Exactly. And then just kind of show up the best way that you can on that day, which like your 10 % might be that 100 % one day, but like it still counts yeah um but yeah and then to be honest with you the bounce back 100 % felt pressure and I think even from do you think that was from other accounts that you follow in industry yeah I think other accounts and also I think I thought my audience were going to be like come on like we're used to seeing you in a type of way and we're used to you being strong and whatever and then I was like I'm not I'm not that now so how are they gonna like is that how's that going to be received yeah I think the pressure from them it's a new version of you when you become a mother you absolutely evolve into a new version yeah I think you have to get that except that and everyone around you has to get used to that right yeah because it is different it is different but in myself I wasn't like I said I just kind of was like this is such a beautiful experience I'm not gonna rush back into anything also because I had a c-section I actually couldn't so it's kind of a set you have to just kind of like give in to that's what that's what's happened yeah and so I'm just gonna let it be and exercise and everything is always gonna be there that's how I kind of like I think separated I was like that will always be there and that can I can rebuild and that will be and that'll have its space and moment but this I don't get back so I'm actually gonna cry again um which is because it's only four months I'm like oh my god on day six my husband was saying about um it's I cried the whole time the first year I mean I still cry now literally the drop of a hat honestly it cracks you open emotionally I'm like he's growing up he's getting so big it's so sad I'm like yeah on yeah on day six I really remember my husband saying about like him meeting another girl or something and I was like oh my god and I just like fully like burst into tears obviously the hormones are crazy and I was like yeah no which is obviously so long how's your understanding of hormones because obviously with the new bill which is incredible like you've done like such a good job of like explaining the role that our hormones but has did that help you in that sort of postpartum period like understanding 100 yeah yeah 100 because even you have the maternity nurses come over and you know they say like you have to obviously watch your mental health and see how you're feeling and came over and said like how are you I said well you know I've had a few breakdowns and I've been a bit irrational you know like I also thought people were trying to steal my baby yeah and I was like but I know that's ridiculous and that is my hormones and I'm just being so I can like put it into yeah separate those things and just be like it's actually not like me talking right now that's just my hormones all over the place yeah just gone through chemicals in your body yeah you know chemical exactly um well yeah right i honestly with the c-section my the recovery was so much harder than i anticipated as well i don't understand it when people say c-section is like an easy option i'm like are you kidding me yeah it's like when i'm major major surgery yeah that if that was like a normal operation in hospital you'd been there two weeks recovering right and then you get sent home the next it's kind of crazy Yeah, no, it is actually, it is wild.

17:34Yeah, I also didn't realise that C-section was so taboo until I put up my photos on Instagram of like us. And they're like, hi, what have you done? Like, how could you cut yourself open and you're fit? Why did you do that? And I was like, oh, like I didn't realise it was like so offensive. Everything in motherhood is offensive to someone. To someone. and I just find it quite weird that how like my choice could be like you my choice you're gonna insult me for my choice about my body and my baby like what how do you separate those or not not

18:08Zoe:I suppose you've been in the public eye for a while now you're probably used to it but how do you do it I actually really lucky I didn't really get that much touch wood negativity um I have like the most incredible community of women and I think that is um actually funny enough the dinner that you were talking about earlier that I went to the other night and people were speaking about how do you deal with hate and some of the girls were kind of saying oh I um it's amazing for your engagement like I just I engage with it and I was I didn't want to and that was kind of the theme I didn't want to say anything but for me I actually don't engage in it and I've always left those comments alone like I don't care if it's gonna I think what you focus on gets bigger so if you're gonna give it more energy it's gonna you're just gonna get more of it sometimes don't get me wrong I have like taken say if it's a man and he's said something like so ridiculous I'll put it on my story and then yeah be like because if I think it can educate at the same time or bring light to something yeah and then everyone will just yeah everyone piles on yeah so that is sometimes but I'm just like why am I gonna engage with you if you're just gonna be mean um but yeah so that was that's kind of how I I do kind of just think oh whatever you didn't and so you're back and so you're back at work yes like I imagine like slightly different qualities how what's your childcare setup how are you yeah so you run the business together with your husband yeah exactly so yeah we he got back to work after three weeks and then I kind of got back about six weeks and then and last week we've just got a nanny for but we've been like trialing for like a couple days a week um because we don't have also our family aren't really around to be able to help us which would be you know amazing and stuff like that but also i actually like you physically can't and we we tried to do it and we were trying to work and we're like how are people doing this like how like how people seem like they can do it all baby and i'm like and then i'd like message friends or creators i'm like oh you're not as in you you still are because there's no there's no off now no like you're from work to baby to like there's it's full on yeah your free time is gone your free time yeah goodbye but then it's fine because the you know what i feel like what you get back from 100 it's yeah although sometimes i just think like give me a minute it was actually the newborn stage when i was like in the shower and it'll be like where's mummy and i'm like oh fucking hell like that's what no one wants to hear from their partner honestly let's go and find mummy you know let's not go no no truly let's let's not um but yeah so i have we have found um help now which i think is gonna you know you i need it yeah it's kind of but again it's such a funny it's funny how that's taboo to talk about the fact that we all need child and it's not because i don't want to be with my child yeah of course or like i love him any less or you know i'm actually like you have to do it because i think he's going to be he's going to benefit you know that's actually how we were designed to raise our children was in community yeah you know and hunter gatherer times the mother would have had eight other people like supporting her that is how it's designed to be it's just that we've lost that community so now we have to normally pay yeah if it's not family right sometimes we do play our family but you know we're just buying in the way that it should be anyway yeah exactly and ultimately like he's so happy yeah so that's what matters and i don't think he's gonna be like oh god mum i remember when no you stopped breastfeeding me and little looks like no you don't remember no and he's gonna be like oh my god i remember the year that you like you know went out there launched book and yeah all of these things so i think it's just like trying to switch the mindset of like the guilt because you do feel like such guilt yeah um but then also i just i can't beat myself up for something that i'm only trying to do to better his life yeah absolutely and also it's fine to say i really enjoy working i love it that's the thing i don't want to stop working it's so important to say that yeah 100 after that like baby bubble and I kind of like recovered let's get back I thought I was like okay like I'm going to slowly start feeling like wanting to get back to it things that like light me up well and the book because you obviously kind of talk about the book which is which is incredible what drove you to write it so I mean I think knowledge is power and so I think being able to use my platform to actually help educate women is like such a privilege but also I was diagnosed with endometriosis about 10 years ago um and there was did you have to fight for that diagnosis because that's lots of women just don't get that diagnosis they literally like they'll never get it they'll just be in pain and be dismissed yeah dismissed yeah like some of the stories that i've heard over the years is absolutely crazy i got my um community to like send me in some stories because I was doing like a piece on it and it's shocking but we asked like how just like dismissed women's health is and it's just not researched enough but that's a different question but yeah so basically I was diagnosed with endometriosis and there was no information out there on how to help it yeah and so I had to do loads of my own research and I was told by the doctor like oh no there's nothing that you can do like you can't heal it there's that that's that once you have it and I was you're in severe pain um and also sorry I was also very dismissed by GPs women made me feel like a bit gross almost some of the doctors I went to it was almost the pains I was describing I remember one doctor she kind of I was with my partner I'd been in like a long-term relationship and she's asking me like about like like sex do we have sex and all these different questions and then I'd say and she I don't know it was just weird energy vibe and it was just and then I brought my mum and I started having to bring my mum with me because I didn't feel confident enough to yeah like be like someone back me up like this isn't normal yeah um and then I actually had to go privately to a gynecologist and then that's when we found the endometriosis and then he said and I got and then I also got a second opinion um and because the first guy was like there's nothing you can do and I was like I don't believe you that's not possible what do you mean um and so then I did loads of research and that's when I really changed my lifestyle and how I exercised and how I was eating

24:59Zoe:yeah I'm so interested in this because I've never been into exercise in any proper way but this year no it's taken me 43 years to find something that I finally love and so So I'm just finding out all these new things. And I'm so interested. Not like that because you look so good. Oh, thank you. So that was like 43 and all that. Like my mum's always like your 40s. You're going to be, that is where you're going to be prime. I think the 40s are the prime. Yeah. And I'm just so interested in, I need your knowledge today because about how to train in line with my cycle. Because I'm not there yet. I'm just like, right, I've managed to find something I love, which is weightlifting and spinning.

25:38Okay.

25:39Zoe:And then I've got. I do like spinning. Yeah. I really like it because I feel like I was a clubber back in the day and I don't do that now. And it's like it's like that for me. Yeah. It's like dark room. Yeah. Loud tunes. Yeah. Off you go. So tell me about what do I need to know about training around my cycle? Yeah. Well, for me, the biggest thing that impacted me positively after I had my endometriosis operation and then I started switching things up. Yeah. I'd gone from like just weight training. Yeah. And I could never stick to a schedule. Okay. It was like, okay, trying to try and work out at five days a week.

26:16I always feel so exhausted. I was inflamed. And I think in that time as well, like it was very much like if you're not lifting heavy, like really heavy or showing to be lifting really heavy. It was kind of, it was like, oh, she's talking rubbish. You know, so that was kind of like how the expertise were because it was very like bodybuilding. Right. vibes and I was like god it doesn't feel right for me yeah so I then kind of like really slowed down focused on more functional training started doing low impact going for walks and then started implementing pilates and that had the biggest kind of impact on me because it was teaching me how to really connect my mind to muscle and really focus on my core strength because your core strength is literally at the heart of every single thing that you do and will help your strength training your posture yeah like everything in life and i actually felt it relieved my symptoms for endometriosis really and i just felt like so much more lighter in myself not in physical weight just like yeah i know what you mean lifted then to have essentially having the options in place for me where so if i was going to have like an endometriosis flare-up or i wasn't feeling it one day i would be able to be like okay well today i'll just instead of my weight session i'll do pilates um and that for me was where I started also like seeing the results because I was actually

27:43Zoe:able to stay consistent you were staying in tune with what my body actually needed and wanted yeah um and this and you know the four seasons that you talk about of our cycle should we be doing different types of training in each of the seasons yeah I think it's kind of very much giving you the knowledge and understanding and then having the options in place like for example like if you're in your luteal phase even with like nutrition like I'm I've now got my period back have you okay um yeah um but actually like because I'm like more aware of my body and needs now I'm able to adjust and so now I'm in my luteal phase like yesterday I had my dinner and I was like I'm still ravenous yeah and I used to I would have gone for been like hey like is there chocolate or I'd have gone for sugar and been like okay I'm not full like what else and I've been and I was I'm just gonna have the same again so I just had the exact same you just made your dinner again I basically just had the dinner again and so then I was I like that we should all be having two dinners like do you know what I mean and then it's like I'm still getting like really good nutrients like I'm looking after myself I'm full and then I'm not craving like all the sugary crap which then will spiral me yeah like the next day I'm gonna feel so much worse I'm gonna probably have a headache I'm going to feel sluggish I don't want to feel like that especially now I have a baby yeah I want to like be able to feel like my optimum more um and then like this morning I woke up like fine like good to go whereas I used to have been maybe like self-sabotaged a little bit yeah um so I think it just kind of gives you the tools to understand but okay so in my luteal phase I'm actually like probably going to be a little bit more tired a bit moody like a really nice long walk getting outside is going to make me feel really good and actually maybe I will go to the gym but I'll go to the gym and I might like do the treadmill it's still like keeping the habits in place yeah because I think that's what I see so much with um like with the girls on my app and stuff who have come to me first they're like I always fall off like my period comes around and I feel like I lose all my progress and it's like and it's because it's that all or nothing mentality that women have yep or like people have because we're like conditioned to be like have to go like fully hard all the time and it's like no you actually don't you can just adjust accordingly and so hopefully this is what kind of yeah this book will be for women to be able to actually just kind of like I said understanding their bodies so yeah like it's like powerful and you're like oh actually maybe i'm not just being like moody and off today i'm actually in in this phase of my cycle and so i'm going to give myself grace yeah yeah um and while you while you're researching it i'm sure there are many times where you're like why does everyone not know this what were some of those things that you were like i just think every woman every person it's not women's issue is it's a people should know this what were some of those things i think the how it's an inflammatory condition so your body is like inflamed um endometriosis yeah yeah and so sorry going back yeah to that just because that's like how i yeah found all the research and stuff and then that's what led me to like research the menstrual cycle more um but i think like diet and food and people are people might say like oh but that's boring if you're just going to be like healthy all the time oh it's so boring like what's actually really boring is if you can't function properly yeah because you're in so much pain yeah or like you feel so sluggish or unwell so what did you change about your so diet so i had foods um yeah just really focused on whole foods and focused on like what i can add into my diet rather than like i'm not trying to take away anything it's like okay what else can i add in like during this phase like when i'm about to get my period like we get more like bunged up I'm gonna add more fiber you know so it's kind of just readjusting that and yeah it's I love food and I love eating how I eat because it makes me feel great yeah um and then yeah I think with exercise just I was it was kind of like I think trying to get the method across of like you know the hybrid training essentially that you don't have to train like one way or they don't have to just like I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder so I don't have to just do weights like you're allowed to just like you said that you like spinning you like weights like and if one day you want to go to a Zumba class or like that still counts yeah towards you feeling good um yeah so I think it's just trying to like break that like all or nothing mentality um and yeah yeah it's so true because you know i remember speaking to someone once they were like i just you know i used to go before motherhood i used to go for like hour runs i'm like well go for a 10 minute run she's like she's like i can't do that what's the point and i'm like well the point is is that you're getting a 10 minute run and then one day you might you might stack up and if you can do that four times a week it's better than nothing zero times a week isn't it and the likelihood as well if you say right i'm just gonna do 10 minutes longer you probably would do longer and then you feel accomplished yeah rather than setting yourself up for failure and being like right i'm gonna like when i was like getting back into my exercise postpartum um i'm not gonna be like right i'm gonna go back to how i was training before because i'm literally setting myself up to feel terrible about myself you want to start so i'm not gonna be able to do it so i literally did 10 minute um workouts and i did a pajama series oh i love that with them all in my pajamas because I was like, I literally don't know about anyone else.

33:28I was like, but I lived in my pajamas or like sweats. And so I don't want to see like, you know, this postpartum person.

33:36Zoe:Putting gym leggings on is not the one. No. No one wants that. Just, it's not, is it? Or just like anything. I just wanted to be like. Nothing like tight. No, just like in your like dressing gown, in your pajamas. So I just did 10 minute classes focusing on like your core breath and just like just standing so like if you want to hold your baby and do some squats like you can do that with me and so I think and that was so doable and then I was like okay so that's just constantly adjusting yeah for different like phases of your life yeah and then like now gradually yeah getting back into I'm not on my pajamas all the time anymore um got out of them I got out of them for today so welcome just about um it's so hot at the moment literally I'm just like crazy but yes I think it's just like having the tools in place to be able to adjust because I think what something annoyed me so much is oh listen to your body this phrase oh just listen to your body I was like well it doesn't talk to me I don't hear anything I don't hear anything what do you mean but actually now that I kind of understand like my cycle more my hormones more and I have the tools in place to listen so it's kind of like oh I feel like so tired today like okay that doesn't mean i'm not going to do nothing that actually means i'm maybe going to do that little 10 minute pajama workout because yeah i'm still like showing up for myself but it just looks different to what i thought yeah i think that's true that it's like what you're really doing when people say listen to your body is like honor how you feel it's more of a feel isn't it it's like I feel knackered it's like okay let's not push through yeah honor that a little bit yeah give yourself a bit of a especially postpartum I mean my gosh that's just like yeah different level different level yeah and tell me a bit more about about the business because so many people listening you know might be in jobs that they don't love and they want to make that switch you'd had quite a few different kind of jobs and before you kind and got into this you know fitness and creation tell tell us about every job yeah I know I was like because for me I because I didn't I wasn't particularly academic at school I'm dyslexic so I was always kind of told oh it's going to be harder and I kind of almost started believing that narrative as well I think when you're told it and you're put in you know especially by teachers who are an authority it's like you do believe it don't you yeah but I had my sport um so that was like I feel lucky that I had that because I felt like oh I'm I'm good at sport so that like didn't matter to me so much when I left school like there wasn't really I mean we could get into a whole other conversation about women in sport I mean it's amazing that it's now you know on the yeah did you feel that wasn't a career option a career option then like now I feel like it potentially is but then that just like there's no way that really would have like been able to happen for me um and so yeah I left and then I went straight into work um just what did I do my shops I worked at a school lifeguarding like waitressing I was a makeup artist and actually that was probably my one of my favorite things that I did because of I was able to interact with people and I love that and how people felt after I did their makeup and that's just such a lovely feeling to make people feel good but like something was missing like I was passionate about it but I wasn't I didn't care that much yeah um and then I just remember having the conversation with my parents my husband and being like oh I could just feel like I'm there's more that I want to do like there's something I want from life and what I'm doing right now isn't giving it to me and I was like well what do you love and it's like sport and then it was like okay so trained to be a PT and then later on after my endometriosis surgery I also trained qualified to be a Pilates instructor.

37:34But I think you've just got to kind of risk it. If you love something and you're passionate about it, then you've just got to go after it. But I also say I think you've got to try your best in every single job that you do because you just never know who you're going to meet and what you're going to do. And I think that as well, every job I did, I always cared so deeply about it. I was like that. Like almost to the point that I look back, I'm like, it's kind of embarrassing.

38:00Zoe:like but but i think that's such a nice i think that's an innate trait that does lend you to being successful like you have because it's like if you put excellence into everything you do you're ultimately going to be successful right yeah it's really hard to not be when you're just trying to be excellent and you actually enjoy it more yeah i think this is what people don't understand it's like if you actually give more like you get more back like you actually do so i would just say to anyone like whatever job they're doing yeah even if you don't enjoy it even if you don't enjoy it like just this week like give it your everything and be try and like excel and go above and beyond and just see what happens yeah because I actually think it shifts your energy shifts your energy everything and you probably will be surprised of what what happens yeah so yeah I would definitely say that and then and then yeah with WeGlow um in COVID we basically were like okay I had I'd had um pdfs and the demand was there for online guides and I was doing loads of lives um every week for free um and just like keeping me going keeping everyone going like it literally saved me during that time as well um we were like this is something bigger people are wanting more um and then yes that's where WeGlow was then created and I wanted to call it we glow because i wanted it to not be around how you look yeah and actually because of where i wanted to take it and it's like there's so much more to movement than than what you look like yeah it's how you feel it's how you feel and i think if you know if you feel good you look good it's just kind of that's yeah if someone like because i feel amazing they're gonna be like oh i look great as well because you that's just a feeling isn't it yeah um so yeah then we created that with a developer and then now it's just over the years just like building it out um yes what it is today which is um like amazing like so grateful that I get to call that my job and that like social media as well open those doors for me because those doors would not have been open there's no way I would be woman in tech like owning a tech company from school like if I said now i went back to school and was you should get back to school and said like i now own like a huge tech company you know like that it's like on the on the apps or things that everyone would be shocked because i'm dyslexic i i'm not the right candidate but says who so i think it's just like trying to ignore like because it's so funny isn't it the which is i really worry about luca as well because you listen to the voices from your childhood so much, even to this day, I feel like it stays with you.

40:39If anyone is mean to my son or says anything, I'm like, this is going to be a problem. But yeah, I think it's just trying to ignore those voices and just, yeah, I feel very lucky. What's your vision and dream for it? I want to continue working within the company, but we want to sell um but still be involved because yeah I like I love it so much and it's part of me and what I do as a trainer um because obviously I create the guides and teach on there and stuff which is also what like lights me up if I didn't have that like that's what I the first thing I got back to postpartum was teaching yes that was the first thing I was like that's what I want to do that's what I love because I'm able to connect with people um and And so that was kind of, yeah, so for me, that's like the number one, like love always.

41:35Zoe:And that's probably why it has done so well, because you can't fake that. No. You can't fake that love for like, it's like me with my coaching, like I actually haven't done it for a year and I really miss it. Why did you stop? I stopped because the media side of the business, so the podcast, the brand deals and the book and kind of took over. But actually how I started it and, you know, it was same as you as with PT as a coach. Yeah. And it's like, I want to get back to that. I've actually realized this year, I really miss it. Yeah. I really miss it. If it does, it's funny, isn't it? Because I guess the other things take over.

42:10Yeah, they take over. You have these opportunities and you're like, God, I have to go for it. And I can only imagine that coaching must be also quite taxing on your... Yes, exactly. Taxing on... Exactly.

42:21Zoe:You can't do it really well, like hold space for 20, 30 women or whatever it is I'm doing. Yeah, and everything else. yeah so it's like but i'm the same like i yeah i love it it's just it lights you think you will start doing it again yeah yeah yeah i'm going to i'm gonna like rejig the business a little bit so you have so that i can get back because i think it's so true that often the more successful that you get in something the less you get to do the thing that you originally loved the most yeah it's funny isn't it and you end up managing the business yeah oh yeah so far people are like oh but you have like people like a big team now and i'm like oh yeah but yeah you have to still do it and like there's so much more going on but yeah i mean that's kind of they've got to do continue to do what you love otherwise as well the business doesn't work yeah like you say because it's like then you you lose that light of yeah so true it's so true and let me ask you the quick fire questions that aren't that quick fire yes because they're actually sorry i probably waffled so much there motherhood is teaching me um probably patience yeah i'm probably i'm quite like impatient person and my husband's like i'm actually shocked with how patient you are with him he's like it's actually wild he's like you've just like i'm not i'd never but i am so impatient with everything i'm like come on like just even but i said i said with children and old people I said I've got patience in abundance like that's the sign of a kind person that's kind of no I don't know it is but I say if I wasn't doing what I was doing now I would 100 % be working with kids and doing something there because I do I just like have patience but if you you know if I'm on a queue I'm like oh my god someone faffing about obviously faffing you can't find their nectar card or whatever it is in front of me I'm like guys oh I know I know honestly I've actually had to teach myself to breathe and be like I can't control this yeah I'm just gonna enjoy stillness yeah because I'm like so probably that yeah so what is something that you didn't value before motherhood that you do now didn't value before I actually don't know this one because what's people what do people normally say because I actually with like I still value movement nutrition and actually with nutrition probably even more because i was so when i was breastfeeding as well i was so aware of what i was putting into my body because i was like he needs to have the best stuff and then i was like why am i not like that with myself that's true yeah like if so i've actually probably more like honed in even more than i was before um i don't know what i valued before oh no what do people say something they didn't value so it'd be like maybe time they didn't realize how precious time was yeah yeah and you saw it all that's true actually probably time is a great one um yeah because now it's like any time that i'm away i'm counts right counts yeah i'm like if i'm gonna be going to something like i had to go to a work event the other day and I was like why the hell am I here?

45:28That's the worst thing. It is, isn't it? I was like I'm just I'm going to go because. Well done. Yeah, because I was just not I was like if it's going to take me away from him or even just having a moment to myself. I was like it has to matter. So yeah, probably time. Yeah.

45:42Zoe:I think that really helps us in our businesses. Like knowing that actually if I'm going to do something, it's got to move that needle. Yeah. Right. I don't know if you found this, You said obviously when you became a mum, that's when everything in your business, you were more driven. But it's true because you're just like, does that actually lead to that goal? Yeah, or not. Or not. Because if it doesn't, yeah, exactly. Or is it going to fill my cup? Am I going to feel happy, good? If I go see my friends after this? I think that's really important to still. Also, my friends have to say they've been incredible.

46:20oh if that support if it wasn't for them are you one of the first to have a baby no i'm actually not which is interesting i was like i'm so sorry i didn't know but because they know they were like so supportive um so i'm really lucky with that like leaned on them a lot and i was like what the hell is this like what's going on um so it's yeah like lean on your friends where you can as well because i think especially as mums mums want to help yeah like the community online as well it's amazing like now you're just like no I want to help you um I think there's like a lot of like negative bits but actually I've seen like such a positive push of mums being like you've got this

46:59Zoe:mama yeah like yeah keep going it's true yeah it is true um and if your pregnant self was sat here now yeah what would you say to her um it's quite recent it is that is so recent um what would I say I think probably like it's gonna work out like yeah I don't know just don't yeah give yourself grace like don't rush I think that is probably yeah like stop rushing like slow down and I love this quote I've seen about um like clingy babies because I said like he like sleeps with me and like Concey's like such a clingy baby and it's like those the babies that are given to the mums that need to slow down and so I think like allow that and just yeah like that nothing has to be like rushed that you're not going to get this time back I think that's so true it's so true yeah and what's one gift you'd give to all mothers in the world and why I think it would probably be mental health um like happy like pockets of like like your health and just like happiness because I think we do try and do it all and in those early stages and you feel like you're battling against like is this am I doing it right yeah and like is this oh my gosh is this normal and there's this constant like questions and you question everything and so I think just be able to give mums like that reassurance and my belly's rumbling did you hear that oh my god literally honestly i'm so hungry all the time get that post-partum baby some food get a snack stat honestly i literally need snack when i was pregnant i had snacks with me all the time because the hunger was wild but yeah sorry i just think yeah give um yeah like pockets of happiness and reassurance and actually maybe of what i just said like a community of friends yeah because i think that is so valuable to have other women who've been through it like help support you um yeah oh that's beautiful and tell us about the book yes um so it's called period proof um and it is about my own experience with women's health and how to basically thrive during your menstrual cycle and have like greater knowledge of what's actually going on in our bodies in a very digestible way.

49:31It's kind of like everything in like one space. It's also something that I want there to spark conversation with your friends, like mums buy for their daughters.

49:44Zoe:Yeah. Like it's a conversation starter. I was thinking that when I was reading it. I was like, I've got a 10-year-old. I was like, and I've always spoken to her about cycles and always read, but I was like, this would be a really good thing for her to read. To just like, even if you've got a page and just pick it up and... Yeah, and chat about it. Yeah, or like leave it there and just be like, oh, what's that? Yeah. I think that's kind of what... My belly's going again. Yeah, that's like the goal with it. And also just, yeah, just to like be able to like thrive and feel your best as much as like possible with what we can control.

50:18And you started a campaign about screening. I did, yeah. which yes I basically started a campaign to make it mandatory that we would have a screening and when I say that I meant that like it would be provided for yeah women yeah um similar to like a smear test yep and I just came up with such backlash and even with the petition for me um well first of all when I petitioned like oh there's another endometriosis petition can you not just sign up to that I was like it's completely different to what I'm suggesting but they just put it in the like women's problems bracket so that was just like so frustrating in itself um and yeah it's basically was like impossible months and months and months and months or like back and forth back and forth um because essentially they said like the gold standard way and even women with endometriosis I did I did some some talks and stuff as well but the thing is it's the gold standard way is the operation i'm like yes that is true to be able to actually find it sometimes but if you can do an ultrasound and you can can find it that way and then now there's some more studies coming out as well hopefully which will and other ways of being able to um see if you have endometriosis or other women's health problems i mean if you can get 70 percent of women with it surely that's better than zero if you can get 40 percent by doing these screening yeah because then you can be like okay these are the lifestyle changes that you can start implementing to make yourself feel better which could make potentially stop the growth stop it getting worse and and then there's not this backlog of build-up of women who need operations um yeah and have this like massive waiting time because you're catching it early before you they might not even realize they have the symptoms yet because it's not gotten to that stage like let's stop it getting to that stage yeah like okay we might miss some people along the way and and might not catch them that that's obviously horrible but the people we do catch that's better than none but anyway that was just um no like an absolute no um which i i i understand And I think now there are more things coming that, like, you can do, like, swabs and things at home to try and find if you do have, like, women's health problems.

52:42But, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like it impacts so many women. And to the point where we have to wait so it impacts you more and more because it gets worse and worse. Yes, it gets worse, yeah. So it's just about, like, trying to catch it early. It's just shocking, isn't it, the whole way that women's health is treated. It is shocking. Like, it really is shocking. I did a post on social media recently and I said, if med, if med, who are they? If men bled monthly, we'd have solutions by now. Yeah. Like they would have, like, do you know what I mean? It's like there would be solutions because there would be more care.

53:21Yeah. People would want to know there'd be a solution.

53:23Zoe:So true. Well, don't give up. You've got to keep pushing ahead. Yeah. I think yeah there's so many women doing so many amazing things with like writing books doing campaigns charities um so I think it's incredible that that is becoming more awareness and I think yeah the more we can talk about it and the um yeah the break the shame as well that's something I really want to do because for me when I spoke about my symptoms originally I felt so much shame I think young girls as well like talking about the period it's like embarrassing it's like we all have them if you're lucky so why is there the shame so I think trying to break that as well is like really important to me and make it feel like accessible yeah oh incredible thank you so much and for coming in four and a half months no no no honestly it's lovely loved it it was worth my time oh definitely definitely filled my cup yeah thank you that was the episode i hoped you loved it if you did please make sure you subscribe and i will see you next time