In short
Mimi Ikonn discusses how her marriage and business partnership unraveled after having a child, the “breadcrumbs” of emotional erosion, and her decision to leave while prioritizing honesty, desire, and modeling healthy values for her daughter. She also covers single-mother life, dating, stress management, receiving help, and redefining success as inner alignment rather than external achievement.
Guest background
Mimi Ikonn is an entrepreneur, author, and wellness thought leader with a large social following. She co-founded/co-owned multiple businesses with her husband (including Intelligent Change) and later launched a book about courage and self-choice. She became a mother at 30 and has one daughter (about age seven at separation).
Key claims
Relationships erode slowly, not suddenly; the “two becomes three” transition can intensify loneliness and detachment; she couldn’t stay without desire and intimacy; she chose separation over “staying for the child”; success is feeling aligned internally.
Notable examples
A work meeting where she developed feelings for someone she met briefly (no affair) triggered realization she wasn’t “in love” anymore; postpartum loneliness and breastfeeding reducing freedom; COVID years improved closeness, while later travel desires increased mismatch; she uses a productivity planner to manage chronic stress and ships imperfect work.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Illusion of a Perfect Life
3:00 to 4:25
Mimi explores the disconnect between her outwardly perfect life and her internal struggles.
“This cannot tell you the difference it makes to the show.”
Realization of Erosion
4:26 to 6:04
Mimi shares the catalyst moment that made her confront the reality of her relationship.
“Or we simply don't realize what's happening because it's the first time it's happening to us.”
The Impact of Motherhood
6:05 to 7:43
Mimi discusses how motherhood altered her identity and the challenges it brought.
“What was, from that moment when you had that feeling in you that made you realize, I love the fact that you said it was a catalyst.”
Isolation in Parenting
7:44 to 10:00
Mimi reflects on her feelings of loneliness and disassociation after becoming a mother.
“Because so many people going to relate to this.”
Erosion of Relationship Dynamics
10:01 to 12:15
Mimi discusses the gradual erosion of her relationship and the complexities of support.
“I would bring it up to him and he would be like, do the research.”
Choosing to Leave
12:16 to 14:00
Mimi opens up about the difficult decision to leave her marriage and its implications.
“And as a friend, I always told him, of course, go travel, go live your life.”
Contemplating Separation and Parenting Decisions
14:00 to 17:53
Mimi discusses the difficult decision of separating for the sake of her child's well-being.
“so I knew that I will I'm going to be choosing a very difficult before you made that choice were Were you sort of doing the mental gymnastics?”
Navigating Business and Co-Parenting
18:56 to 23:12
Mimi reflects on managing a business partnership and co-parenting after separation.
“because you also had the business together?”
Self-Care and Managing Stress as a Single Parent
23:12 to 28:00
Mimi shares her journey of self-care and coping with stress as a single mother.
“But I was using it pre the book launch because I knew I had to.”
The Challenges of Motherhood and Attachment
28:00 to 29:18
Exploring the difficulties of motherhood and personal attachment styles.
“But, like, I didn't even want to go on a plane and fly away from my baby because I was very attached.”
Show all 18 chapters
Understanding Mom Guilt and Its Origins
29:18 to 30:47
Discussing the concept of mom guilt and its evolutionary background.
“But of course, your ability to produce the work that you want to do is not the same because you have sleepless nights and all these unexpected things happening.”
The Importance of Community and Support
30:47 to 33:03
Emphasizing the need for community support and diverse caregivers.
“It's something that generationally had to happen for us and other babies in our lineage, ancestral lineage, to survive.”
Balancing the Masculine and Feminine in Motherhood
33:03 to 34:35
Discussing the balance between masculine responsibilities and feminine energy.
“So with certain caregivers, I think that's fine, like your mom or a professional nanny.”
Redefining Success Through Inner Work
34:35 to 36:14
How personal experiences and inner work can redefine success.
“That's just, it kind of can strip away some of the, definitely strips away some of the noise.”
Lessons from Motherhood and Community Engagement
36:14 to 42:01
Sharing insights on the importance of community and self-care in motherhood.
“As an entrepreneur, you try so many different things.”
Embracing Change in Motherhood
42:01 to 43:12
Discover the importance of accepting the changes that come with motherhood and building a supportive community.
“So the first two years were very lonely.”
The Gift of Self-Acceptance
43:12 to 44:06
Learn about the significance of self-acceptance in a mother's journey and the uniqueness of each experience.
“And last one, if you could give just one gift to all the mothers in the world, what would it be and why?”
Navigating Life Transitions with Courage
44:06 to 45:02
Explore the challenges of life transitions and the resilience gained through such experiences.
“For anyone who's going through any life transitions, this is the manual.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This message is brought to you by Avocado Mattress. When you're shopping for mattresses, you can spend hours reading reviews and scrolling through photos. But the only way to truly know if a mattress is right for you is to feel it for yourself. That's why Avocado invites you to come lie down. Every Avocado Mattress is GOT-certified organic. Assembled in our California facility with organic cotton, wool, and latex. No polyurethane foams. No fiberglass. Certified by Made Safe and EWG Verified. It's a difference you can feel. So curl up. Try any of our Avocado mattresses in person at an Avocado mattress store or 600 premier retail locations nationwide.
0:38Find out which of our five comfort levels is right for you. Because buying a mattress shouldn't be a guessing game. And there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to better sleep. Find your comfort. Come lie down at Avocado. Visit AvocadoGreenMattress.com to find a store near you. That's AvocadoGreenMattress.com. AvocadoGreenMattress.com And I realized, actually, if I can feel like this for someone, I just met. I'm no longer in love with my partner. I didn't realize for many years that the relationship was eroding. What were some of the breadcrumbs that you, looking back, you're like, I can see that, that you didn't notice at the time?
1:17The biggest shift in our relationship happened after two became three. The next day, I came home from the hospital, and he's like, I'm going to go have lunch with him. Bye. And I was like, felt so lonely. I felt extremely lonely and I was disassociating. I realized that I cannot make a decision to stay in the relationship just for my child because what am I modeling to her? Hey, welcome to Motherkind. It is me, your host Zoe. We are proudly sponsored by Wild Nutrition's Women's Supplements. Today I am joined by entrepreneur, author and wellness thought leader Mimi Icon. From the outside, Mimi appeared to have the perfect life.
1:59A successful marriage, beautiful daughter, millions of followers and a hugely successful business. But on the inside, something no longer felt right. And in this conversation, Mimi shares what it took to find the courage to leave a life that looked great on paper, but felt very different on the inside. We talk about the guilt, the fear and, you know, the impact of choosing herself. We talk about her experience of matricence, how becoming a mother changed her identity and ambition and where the years of mindset work really did prepare her for her transition into motherhood. She also opens up about dating as a single mother, learning to trust herself through enormous change and redefining what success looks like in this season of her life.
2:44We also talk about entrepreneurship, backing yourself. This is such an honest and thought-provoking conversation about motherhood, about relationships, about reinvention, and ultimately about choosing ourselves. I hope you love it. If you did, please do subscribe to wherever you listen or watch. This cannot tell you the difference it makes to the show. Here it is.
3:11Oh, maybe welcome. I'm so excited to chat. Welcome to Motherkind. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to also go deep into everything you want to go deep into. Well, let's go deep straight away because you had, as you describe it in the amazing new book, this perfect life on the outside. You had daughter, husband, business. You co-founded and co-owned the business together. Something didn't feel right on the inside. Tell us about it. I love that you're starting right there at the most dramatic moment, I would say, in the last few years of my life, which was me, you know, after years of being with my partner.
3:50I think at that point we were together for more than 15 years, out of which we were married for 13. And we were, you know, co-founders in multiple businesses. So we worked together from day one because we used to work together at a bank. So we were in corporate and then we left the corporate world and started multiple businesses, had our beautiful daughter together. So we had that history of really beautiful, healthy, secure relationship. And, you know, as I share my story, I think it's important to note that no relationship just erodes in a moment. It's a long process. And oftentimes it's a process that even though intuitively we might be aware of it's happening, but we don't want to admit it is.
4:34Or we simply don't realize what's happening because it's the first time it's happening to us. For example, my ex-partner was my first real long-term relationship. I've never had a proper breakup. I've dated people, but like really short, long-distance relationships, nothing serious where I actually live together with a partner. So I've never been in this situation before. It's my first time, even though we've been together for so long, right? So I didn't realize for many years that the relationship was eroding. and then there was a moment in time where you know somebody came into my life as a catalyst and I realized actually if I can feel like this for someone I just met I'm no longer in love with my partner and that kind of opened up a whole pandora of things that I had to then process tell us about that so you were in a you were in a work meeting weren't you um it was something like that yeah I don't want to go into many details because I think it's you know I really want to go past that part of the story and I don't want to reveal anyone's details.
5:35But yeah, it was a work setting where I just met someone briefly and actually didn't end up going into any kind of affair or anything. Nothing happened. It became a friendship, but I fell in love with someone. And that made me realize if I can fall in love with someone, that means I'm not in love with my partner. And that was very painful because it was a painful thing for me to admit to myself because he was my best friend. And it's like, how do you tell your best friend that you're no longer in love? Well, first you have to admit it to yourself, right? Yeah, how did you do that? What was, from that moment when you had that feeling in you that made you realize, I love the fact that you said it was a catalyst.
6:16I love that, it's such a nice reframe. Because a lot of times we'll have something happen to us. I mean, obviously it took like months and months, and even now years, it happened three years ago, so more than three years ago. where you look back and then it takes you time to process and really psychoanalyze what did really happen. And now I can easily see it. But in the moment, it was so confusing. I was like, what is happening? How can I feel this way for someone I just met? But what was the first thing is because in my relationship with my ex-partner, we always had transparency and honesty as one of our values and pillars in our relationship.
6:54And as I said, we were best friends. We're still very good friends to this day. And I think maybe two weeks later, I had to tell him that I had a crush on someone because I simply couldn't sleep anymore. And he reacted very well. He was like, listen, you're a human being. These things can happen. See if it will blow over, you know, and like it's fine. But I knew in my heart it wasn't fine because it was at that point we were together for so many years and I had history of all these years knowing that I never looked or fell for another man in that long period of time. So I knew for me, this is not normal.
7:32Something must have happened for a long time for this to have happened. And that's when now I look back at my life and our relationship, I realized that it was eroding for a long period of time and I was disassociating, but I didn't know I was. What were some of those? Because so many people going to relate to this. What were some of the breadcrumbs that you, looking back, you're like, I can see that, that you didn't know at the time. I'm happy to share, and especially since your podcast is about motherhood. I feel like the biggest shift in our relationship happened after two became three. And it's a very difficult thing to admit even to yourself, right?
8:07Because building a family, you're like, it's going to get even closer, right? And deeper. That's what you hope for. But the reality is that when you add an extra human or two or three, you have more responsibilities. You have less time for your relationship with your partner. And oftentimes, unless you have a really great support system, which I think most of us who live in big cities away from our parents, I simply don't have my parents. He didn't have his parents in London either. So we had no community, especially when I gave birth. I was actually 30, but none of my friends, I have a lot of friends who are younger, older, but like none of them had kids.
8:47I was the first one and I felt so lonely. I felt extremely lonely. And as much as he was supportive, you know, the next day I came home from the hospital and our friends were visiting from Toronto and he's like, I'm going to go have lunch with them. Bye. And I was like, I want to come too. But like here I have a newborn and I'm breastfeeding, right? Like, I'm not saying it's a bad thing that he left. I'm happy for him that he had to get out and have lunch with someone. But the truth is we as women, especially if you choose to breastfeed, our life changes forever. Yeah. Because for as long as you're breastfeeding and I breastfed for two years, like your main, you're the main source of food and comfort for your child.
9:28And yeah, I never realized how much of an impact that's going to make on my freedom. I mean, I knew that freedom was going to be altered and that's normal, but like it was a lot more intense than I imagined it would be. And a lot of times, again, as much as he was helpful, and again, I think I have a great part, like ex-partner, and he did the best he could, but I just realized that I kept disassociating because I still felt very lonely in the experience of motherhood. And I don't think I'm unique to that. No, definitely not. And we've had many conversations. I would bring it up to him and he would be like, do the research.
10:06He's like, I'm a great father. And I would do the research and I would come back to him with the research that was horrific. Like, I think if you look at an average man in the US, because I think I couldn't find the research in the UK, but an average father in America spent something like, I don't know, don't quote me on this, but it was really bad, like 11 minutes with a child. Yes. And an average woman, a mother spends maybe double or triple of that, but not longer because people simply are out there working and like the system is against us. And yeah, like there's so many things I learned through the process of motherhood.
10:42But I think the erosion started happening then very slowly. I feel like the first year when we had our child was our most difficult year of our relationship. And we worked through that and then it got better and better. And through COVID years, it was the best because he couldn't travel. And I just love the fact that it was like just the three of us doing life. And then COVID ended, you know, and everything was open again. And he's like, I want to go travel. I want to do more things where, you know, I'm free. And for me, like parenting is very different. Like I'm very full on. And not to say that there's the right way to do parenting.
11:19Some moms are also very hands-off and they have a support system, full-time nannies. or maybe one of the parents helping them. I'm very full on mom. So for me, like, again, I felt very, very alone in the experience. I think a lot of the times and I didn't realize because I just made peace with it and I accepted my partner. But I think I was also disassociating and detaching from him without realizing that I was. Yeah. Well, it sounds almost like a little bit of you was like, not avoiding the resentment. Do you know what I mean? A little bit. Because maybe because of you, you've done so much in kind of mindset And do you know what I mean?
11:54I think sometimes we can be like, it's fine. I'm grateful that he's able to do that. But actually. I just realized he can only do as much as he has capacity for. Right. So I genuinely accepted it. Yeah. But I think part of me still felt alone and started, you know, started just detaching romantically. But I didn't realize because we still had a great relationship. I think that so many people will relate to that. And as a friend, I always told him, of course, go travel, go live your life. But I think as a romantic partner, I felt abandoned. But I didn't realize any of it until the catalyst came into the picture.
12:30And then I was like, whoa, how could this happen? Because I still love my ex-partner, but it's not romantic anymore. It's just more like a companionship and friendship and someone that's my family. And I will always love, but I'm no longer in love with. And I just couldn't stay. I couldn't stay in that dynamic because I'm such a romantic person. you know so i you know we work through it for months and then eventually i i realized to choose myself i i again like i mentioned nothing happened with that catalyst um but i realized that now that i know how i can feel i just can't go back and force myself to stay in a relationship because also marriage is not even where you just hold hands and you know you talk to each other you have to be intimate with your partner.
13:19And for me, because there was a loss of desire, I just couldn't force myself to do something that I didn't want to do. And I didn't know if desire will ever come back. So I just was in a very difficult, tricky situation. People can tell you, oh, do like stay in the relationship. Or some people that I can find it in even, which was interesting, they were like, just go cheat. I've had the same situation and that's fine. You don't need to do anything about it just go cheat I'm like no I can't cheat no I can't even cheat in my head I can't sleep you know I'm like this not this is not part of my values you know if it works for someone that's great no judgment but for me that just goes against everything for me honest I have to be honest and transparent first with myself then with my partner then with everybody so I knew that I will I'm going to be choosing a very difficult before you made that choice were Were you sort of doing the mental gymnastics?
14:12Oh, for sure. Of like, can I do this? Is this an option? What would this mean? Were you really? A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, for months, for months. And I think the most difficult thing is having the child. Of course. Right? Not that you don't have a family if you don't have a child. Some people have dogs or cats or they just have a family. Friends or family. Yeah, like two of them are a family. So I'm not implying that, but you still have a shared responsibility over human life. And that makes things a million times more complicated. So as I was contemplating whether I should stay or leave, I was like, hmm, interesting.
14:50So if I take my child out of the equation, what would be my decision? Super simple. We just decide to separate. And then in a few months, we reevaluate. And then we'll take it from there. But we definitely need some space and we need to separate. I'm not saying we're going to divorce tomorrow, right? So when I became aware of that, I realized that I cannot make a decision to stay in the relationship just for my child because what am I modeling to her, right? Because at the end of the day, it's not what we tell our children. It's what we embody, right? So if I say truth and honesty are my values, do I actually embody truth and honesty?
15:32and it's very difficult because at the time she was only seven she just turned seven years old when we decided to break up so still very young and at the same time I knew that I can't lie to her because even at that age she would look at me and she would be like why does your face look sad like she can just read my micro expressions and I have a beautiful relation because obviously as I mentioned I was and still I'm a very hands-on mom I'm always there with her I never had help just maybe a babysitter here and there when I go out in the evenings or for an event or anything but we spend all of our time together she's my little bestie so how can I lie to my little friend my little best friend right so I knew that that's not gonna work and also long-term effect of staying in something that doesn't feel right is gonna cause me depression most likely so I was projecting to the future and I was like and then what you're gonna take medication and and like numb yourself, but then how is that going to impact your child?
16:32Because if you're thinking of an impact and people say kids from divorced families are impacted negatively, yeah, but can we look at a comparison between kids from families whose parents stay together but are in toxic relationships? Has anyone done a study on that? No. So if we compare, I think we will agree that there's no right or wrong way. We all choose our authentic way of what feels right for our family. And for me, I knew that I'm going to choose a path of peace and kindness and love. And I know that my partner will mirror that. And also, I know that I have a very emotionally mature ex-partner.
17:12I'm very lucky. I chose right. And yeah, we were just honest through the whole process. When we did decide to separate, we broke the new star child. And yes, it wasn't easy at first. But what's important is that, again, we keep those values embodied, which is the kindness, the authenticity, and honesty for the three of us in our little family, which will always be a family. Even as you separate, you realize that once you have a child with someone, you are connected for life, which I'm happy in my case because, again, my ex-partner is one of my best friends and will always be. This message is brought to you by Avocado Mattress.
18:21DWG verified. It's a difference you can feel. So curl up. Try any of our avocado mattresses in person at an avocado mattress store or 600 premier retail locations nationwide. Find out which of our five comfort levels is right for you because buying a mattress shouldn't be a guessing game. And there's no one size fits all when it comes to better sleep. Find your comfort. Come lie down at avocado. Visit avocadogreenmattress.com to find a store near you. That's AvocadoGreenMattress.com. AvocadoGreenMattress.com. And was it difficult because you also had the business together? Absolutely. We're still business partners.
19:01I wouldn't say when it came to the business, it was difficult because I don't know. I feel like because we met at work, we always work together. We have never not worked together. That's how we met. So we've always been really good at separating business and personal. And I think also, I don't know, do you work with your partner? No, I couldn't. I'm glad you don't. I'm curious. It's something I was always very happy that we did because again, it allowed us to spend more time together. Right. But I wonder if it also, that's part of the erosion because a lot of times when we would go on the dates, we would talk about work.
19:33Yeah. And I sometimes just wanted to be romantic and do like romantic things and do some fun things, but we both love what we do. So it's not right or wrong. You know, obviously when you psychoanalyze your life, you realize a lot of things after something happens and I'm like, would I ever want to be in a business relationship with my partner? I don't know, but I had a great time while we did it. And again, we're still friends and we're still business partners because it's almost like we went back to the relationship we had before we became romantic partners. Yeah. So the container just changed its meaning or its label, but it's still a container of a relationship.
20:13So how do you manage? Because obviously you've got the business, you've got your daughter for the majority of the time and how are you as a single parent how tell us about that your day to day because you're also you know you've got these amazing personal growth tools that you've been doing a long time right 20 15 20 years tell us about your day to day and how you maintain that sort of positivity and that gratitude despite what is in the reality a lot of pressure probably a lot stress and no amount of time. Yeah, no, I recently went to a doctor because my period was too early. Right. And she asked me a question.
20:48She's like, are you stressed? Because she did all the tests and she's like, you're perfectly fine. She's like, do you think you're stressed? And I'm like, no, I'm fine. And then I'm like, let's look at your life. My dad had a health scare. And then, you know, I have a lot on my plate right now. I was about to launch the book. So as I started looking at my life, like, yes, I'm always with a smile on my face. I'm always a glass half full kind of person. I'm a Leo, you know, like always shining bright. But the truth is I'm handling a lot of things. And sometimes I'm just like, I feel like I'm used to managing stress really well.
21:24But underneath, yeah, I feel like I'm probably mildly chronically stressed like a lot of us are. How do I handle it? I feel like I'm constantly learning how to love myself better. It's a journey. And I feel like after my breakup with my ex-partner, because I haven't yet been in a relationship, like I tried dating for sure. And if you're curious, we can talk about it. But I haven't yet been in a relationship since the breakup. So I've been pouring all that love. All of a sudden, you realize how much love you pour into your man. And then there's all this love still there in you. So I've just been pouring a lot of that into myself.
22:05And that's been also a beautiful journey because you do have a lot more free time in some ways when you don't have a man to pour it into, even if you're a single mom, even if you're running a business. But what I've learned in the process is just the fact that it's never perfect. I use my productivity planner, which is one of the products that we created because without the productivity planner, honestly, I'm not trying to advertise it, but there's a before and after and there's months where I go out of the habit of using it because it's a very clear system where you do the most important things first because I'm a creative person I have lists upon lists upon lists on my phone on my notes so when I sit down every day or even before I tried to do it the night before and you can we have even like a quarterly productivity planning where you can look at like the quarter that you look working on yeah and like what are the big projects and you You plan your week, then you plan your day.
22:59When I do that, and I don't always do that. Right now I'm in the summer mode. I'm not using the productivity planner. We don't count the summer. And it's a bit of a shit show. I'm not going to lie. You know, like the list is just so long and I'm like, oh, I need to use my productivity planner. But I was using it pre the book launch because I knew I had to. And I was so much more productive. So when I do that, I just stay more sane and things move at a pace that they can. because again, as moms, things happen, the kid gets sick, something happens where you're not able to do what you're supposed to do.
23:34And a lot of times, historically, I used to be really hard on myself because I used to be a perfectionist. I feel like I'm not so much of a perfectionist anymore. I mean, it's still there, but I'm just learning to give myself more grace and know that it's never going to be perfect. Because if you try to create perfectly, do things perfectly, you're just never going to put anything out. Not a book, not a podcast episode, not a blog post or a reel or anything, a story. You just have to ship it as one of my favorite marketers, Seth Godin. I don't know if you read the book Lynchpin, but I just love his analogy on how creativity and how creative work needs to be put out there, whether it's perfect or not, doesn't really matter.
24:21It never will be perfect. So this is something I constantly remind myself because I'm an extremely ambitious person. I want to do so much and more. And sometimes from the outside, people might think like she's doing so much and I feel like I haven't even scratched the surface of what I would love to do. But at the same time, I realized I chose to have a child, right? It was very conscious choice. She was not an accident. We were, I think, together by that point for at least six years, maybe married for six together for eight before we decided to get pregnant. Well, I decided to get pregnant because he was ready very early on in the relationship.
25:03So I think because I consciously made this decision and then I consciously decided to just stop at one, I really wanted to be there for everything because I think this is the most important work I'll ever get to do. All the other work comes and goes, but this is a human life that will, if she decides to have children, she'll keep on procreating. And this is part of my genetics. I mean, like for thousands of years, my ancestors got me here. So again, no pressure on her to have children if she doesn't want to. But I think I owe it to the line of my ancestors to do the best I can and pour all the love I have into this manifestation of love.
25:49And my child's second name is love, Alexa Love. Oh, that's nice. And yeah, I've enjoyed every moment of motherhood as difficult and messy and chaotic. and imperfect that it has been, it also has taught me so many lessons. And I constantly remind myself that it was my choice to make this decision. And yes, maybe in some ways she grounds me, she slows me down, my ambition. But at the same time, this is the most important work I get to do and fulfilling work. And your mother as well, as you can see as they grow up, their personalities change and like they give back so much, but you can only receive that if you've invested in it, I believe.
26:32So I think like if, again, no judgment for other people, how they do relationship, but their relationship with their children. But I believe what you pour into a relationship, any relationship, including the one with your child is what you're going to be able to receive in the end. And I can already see how much love she's putting back into me, which again, And I didn't have any expectations of that to happen, but it's so beautiful. And I'm so grateful for my relationship with her. But I know it's because of everything I've put into and the presence that I've given her myself.
27:09So practically, we're similar, right? It's just like this sort of big ambitions, but also I'm the same. Like I want to be really present and really there. How do you sort of square that circle for yourself? Do you think in seasons, which is what I actually do. I think in career seasons. And I'm like, right, when my kids get this age, then I want to launch an international speaking career. But right now, I don't want to be on planes, you know, every week, every other week. That's just not the season that I'm in. But that's something that I so want. Is that how you think about it? Well, tell me how you think about it.
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27:43Yeah, I very much resonate with that. But when she was smaller, I didn't take any trips, even with my ex-partner. And it was part of our conflict as well, because he was happy to go to Maldives for two weeks or anywhere and just leave her with the nanny. And I was like, no way. I'm not even leaving her for one day or two days. Like, maybe we can go to countryside. But, like, I didn't even want to go on a plane and fly away from my baby because I was very attached. and I think that after the breakup I did a lot of inner work and I realized oh I think I'm anxiously attached but I didn't know any of this terminology because again when we started dating there was no like avoiding that yeah there was none of this information available so it was very beautiful to understand that also maybe part of how I was raising my child came from my personal you know insecurities of how I was raised and like what I wasn't given I was trying to maybe overcompensate.
28:37So I think like if I ever were to have a child, I probably would have asked a lot more for help. I'm not telling anyone to follow my footsteps, but I couldn't have done it any other way with what I didn't know. So yeah, there was a season where I was literally saying no to everything because I was choosing to be with her pretty much all my time. It was her work and then my ex-husband, right? And then, you know, slowly, I think only after she turned five, you know, the three is a milestone, like you get a little more time than five. And then I think seven, it was so much better because like she was in school and then you have a little more time because until then she was in nursery, but like part-time and it's just a few hours here and there that you have.
29:22And it goes in like 30 seconds. Not enough for anything. Yeah. I never stop working. But of course, your ability to produce the work that you want to do is not the same because you have sleepless nights and all these unexpected things happening. And it's emotional. Motherhood is such an emotional journey. I think business is so much easier. Yeah. Business is way easier. Yeah. So for me, it was definitely challenging. It still is, but it's so much easier nowadays. and now I'm in a chapter where I can make bigger, bolder decisions. But I still wouldn't go away for more than two, three days away from my child.
30:00I think the most we spent away is maybe six, seven days when she was away on a trip with her father. But it wasn't my choice where I would put myself away from her. So I think I'm still at a place where I don't want to spend more than a week away from my baby. Absolutely not. Yeah, I'm the same. She's still very young. I'm going to say, mine are 10 and 6, and I've just spent the last two days away from them yesterday and coming here today. And it's like, I'm ready to get back to them tonight. Oh, I hear you. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's normal and it's healthy because this is how evolution works. If we as moms could so easily detach from our children, none of us would be here because our survival depended on this.
30:43So I think as moms and women, we need to also understand why we have the mom guilt, right? It's something that generationally had to happen for us and other babies in our lineage, ancestral lineage, to survive. Because the fathers can easily take off. That's why there's no dad guilt. How often we hear this term? No dad guilt because the dads had a different function in the relationship. They had to go and hunt. And they did all these other things while they were hunting. And that is fine. That was the evolution of humanity. But I think when we look at history, we can understand why we feel a certain way and we can give more love and acceptance and grace to ourselves.
31:26Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And I feel conflicted with guilt because part of me is like, absolutely, it makes so much sense that we feel it because in some ways, is it unnatural to be without our children? But actually, when I look at the research around sort of hunter gallery communities, it was really never meant to be just on one woman. That's true as well. It's actually meant to be done, you know, with alloparents, this term that I love, where there would be eight other involved caregivers, right? That's actually how we are designed and our nervous systems are designed to raise our children.
31:56And it really helps me to remember that, like them being with my mom now, that's actually completely natural. Even if that was a nanny that they were with, right? It's natural to share the caregiving, I think. That is how it was done, right? And it's healthy. It's never meant to be on one nervous system. It's too much. Absolutely. It's too much. Yeah. And that's why I said, if I were to do it again, I wouldn't do it the same way. Yeah. But again, it's our first time doing it, right? It was my first time. I only have one child. So everything I've learned, I've learned through this experience. And I definitely would ask, would tell anyone who is listening, who is about to have a child, or maybe has a small baby, ask for help.
32:34Don't feel guilty. And I think for a child, it's also very healthy to learn diversity of different nervous systems and different people. I love the fact that my child is now older, for example, and she'll go for a play date and she'll go out for dinner and she'll observe another family. And then she'll come back telling me stories, how other families do things differently. And I think this is beautiful, but I think there's time and place for that. I love her experiencing it now when she's nine rather than when she was one and a half, two, right? So with certain caregivers, I think that's fine, like your mom or a professional nanny.
33:09But yeah, you have to survive sometimes through the early years. And even if your friend is happy to watch your baby for an hour so you can take a shower, take a class, anything that can keep you sane, say yes and accept, learn to receive. Because I think as women, this is something we collectively struggle with is actually receiving. And for us, that's really important because actually receiving is all about our feminine energy. So when we struggle with receiving, it's a clear indication that it's actually our femininity that we're struggling with. And this is something I can honestly say I struggle with to this day because I so willingly give, but I'm a lot of my masculine.
33:50I'm responsible. I make decisions. I'm ambitious. Again, I like act fast. And at work, you're probably in your masculine. Yeah. But even as a mother, motherhood is a very masculine role. You have to get stuff done. Millions of decisions, right? Every day and such a huge responsibility. When do we get to relax? When do we get to just flow and receive? Well, any moment you're allowed to, take it. And it's so healthy for you. And what's healthy for you is good for your baby and for your children. It's so true. That is just, whenever I get lost in, you know, what am I doing? Am I okay? I just come back to that.
34:31If it's healthy for me and it feels good for me, then it's good for them. Absolutely. That's just, it kind of can strip away some of the, definitely strips away some of the noise. Absolutely. And even sometimes with children, like my child sometimes will make me feel guilty too when I want to go on a trip and she'll be like, mommy, don't go away. But I explained to her, I'm like, you know, I love my work and I'm going to come back with so much more energy and excitement, enthusiasm. We need to tell our children because I think it's important. And again, we're leading by example. I think if our kids see us do something we love and enjoy, this is such a great example that we can set for them.
35:09Yeah, 100%. So tell me about what success means to you now, because I imagine that's changed quite a lot over the years and probably through motherhood and probably now as a kind of single parent. So what does it feel like for you when you think about what does success mean? Yeah, in my early 20s, I experienced a lot of depression and anxiety. when we first launched our first business with my ex-partner. And it went really successful within our first year. We made our first million. Wow, well done. And this is when, thank you, this is when I redefined what success means to me. And of course, that definition changed many times after.
35:48But that was the first time where I realized that, yes, it's amazing to be financially free. And I don't come from the background where my parents made a lot of money. I actually come from very humble beginnings. So I was the first one, you know, in my lineage to become financially free where I can travel anywhere, buy anything. And when I was able to attain that, that first couple of years were the hardest years of my life because I had to redefine. I realized, yes, as amazing as it is and as lovely as it is to be financially free, what to me is more important is to be aligned for my work to be aligned with my soul's journey so even if I am making a lot of money through a certain type of work if it doesn't feel right it won't bring me joy it's like the relationship absolutely and I will feel this misalignment like in my gut like I just feel something is off you know I can go on with my day.
36:52But I just know I'm not aligned. So as much as we loved our first business and it was fun and it brought us so much financial freedom, eventually we decided to sell it and focus on our second successful business because there was a few that didn't make it into the world. As an entrepreneur, you try so many different things. And so the second one that to this day we run with my ex partner is Intelligent Change. And it came as a byproduct of me actually doing a lot of inner work, therapy, Reiki, meditation, reading hundreds of books probably at that time on healing myself and understanding how can I break the cycle of suffering that's in my generation.
37:36And the two things that really worked for me was gratitude and meditation. And that's how Intelligent Change was created. All of that to say that now what success means to me is that I feel good on the inside. Because at the end of the day, I've been in a situation where my life looked perfect on the outside. When I was 24, made our first million, 24, 25, and could go anywhere, travel anywhere, just got married. Life is great. And I'm the most miserable I've ever been. Panic attacks, depression, couldn't even get on a plane anymore. And I love flying and traveling. So I know that wealth is just one pillar of success, which is again, I love wealth and I'm always open to receive it.
38:23And at the same time, what's more important for success is to be aligned with the work that you're here to do as a soul, because we're all humans, but ultimately our soul is eternal. And yeah, so for me, I always know because of how I feel with what I do or with the people that I am with, whether it's a friendship, relationship, you know, as you assess success in different areas of your life, you always have to check in with how you feel. And if it feels good, you're on the right path. Now that is so beautiful. I think that's probably a really good place to end. I'm going to ask you the quickfire questions that aren't that quick.
39:00Let's go. motherhood is teaching me dot dot dot motherhood has definitely taught me and it's always teaching me how to love my inner child better because i always look at how i love my daughter and i'm always surprised at how you know i'm so present and i'm so giving and i'm so loving and unconditional. But when it comes to loving my inner child, I used to be so tough on her, not so giving, not so present, right? I'd give to everyone, but I'd give to her last. So a lot of times when I will feel off, I would think, well, if your child fell off, what would you do? Like if your child was not feeling well, you would tell her to rest.
39:49Why are you pushing yourself to work harder, go and relax, go and see a doctor. Like, why are you stressing yourself by worrying about maybe some possible health condition? If your child had a little rash, you would be in the doctor's office. So I started to treat myself and my inner child like my child. And I feel like that really helped my relationship with myself. That's really beautiful. And what is something that you didn't use to value, but you now do? To be honest, because I did a lot of inner work before I had my child. As I mentioned, she was a conscious baby. And I was very clear that I did a lot of healing because I didn't want to pass on anything that I didn't want to pass on.
40:33And of course, I'm not perfect, but at least I tried to do my work that I feel like my values were quite in check. If anything, I feel like it amplified what is important. Yes. Like freedom or presence or quality time together. So I think it just made me realize that everything I valued is actually what is important. So definitely that's what motherhood has helped me to see. And if your first time pregnant self was sat here right now, nine years ago, what would you say to her? I would say definitely get a doula. That's something I didn't even know about because I feel like I would have had a much better experience during my birth.
41:17I had a very long and slightly traumatic birth. Maybe that's why I stopped at one. So definitely get a doula, but also like learn to ask for help. I know we discussed that a little bit, but I think as someone who is very ambitious and someone who has always been the rock for everyone and holds everything together, when I was in this emotional journey of learning motherhood for the first time with no manual, I simply couldn't ask. I didn't know how to ask for help because I'm not used to asking for help in other areas of my life. And as I mentioned, I didn't have other mommy friends. So I would say if you can get into a community of other mothers who are going through the same journey, it will really help.
41:59Eventually I met them, but it took me probably at least two years. So the first two years were very lonely. So I think like get into the community and help each other, even if it's just these mommy friends. I personally didn't want to be in the mummy groups because I was like, I am an entrepreneur and I am a free woman. And I don't want to be associated with all of that. But you're going to have to anyways, because it's just going to be part of who you are for the rest of your life. The best business life investing chats sat in those, you know, it's like just because you're connecting over your children.
42:33For sure. It's an amazing network, can be. But it took me time to accept that because I think I resented that my life will change. Yes. I was like, my life is not going to change. I'm still going to work the same way and I'm going to have the same freedom. But of course it did. So you learned that over time. So I'm telling you now, if you're listening, just accept the fact that your life is going to change. And that is a beautiful journey. You're going to make so many incredible friends and you're going to learn so much. And yes, it's scary, but it's also so expansive in so many ways. But yeah, ask for help.
43:10And learn to receive. So good. And last one, if you could give just one gift to all the mothers in the world, what would it be and why? I want to give so many gifts. But if I just had to give one, it would have to be self-acceptance. except that your motherhood journey is unique to you, to your skills, your capacity. And it's perfect exactly the way it is because you are a different person. We all have a different capacity. And I think a lot of times we'll look at other moms and we'll compare, but that is so unfair because just like flowers, we're all different flowers. We're all different women and we all have different upbringing and energy and capacity.
43:57And I think accept that your journey is perfect exactly as it is. And yeah, I would give you self-acceptance. Well, that is so beautiful. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. The book is out now. Yes. So the courage teaches yourself. It's so beautiful. I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah. For anyone who's going through any life transitions, this is the manual. There wasn't any manual when I was going through my breakup. I struggled to find something that can help me navigate the complexity of the life transition that divorces. But then there are so many other life transitions I have gone through.
44:35So as I wrote this book, I remembered them and I wanted to remind every reader how powerful and strong and resilient we are because all of us have gone through dozens and dozens of life transitions. and if we look back at our journey we always become more of who we are we always become stronger more resilient and a more expanded authentic and and more beautiful version of what we're meant to be so i love it it is beautiful i will link it below thank you so much thank you what a joy
45:12that was the episode i hoped you loved it if you did please make sure you subscribe and i will see you next time
From the publisher
What happens when your life looks perfect from the outside, but deep down you know something isn’t right?
Mimi Ikonn had built a successful business, a marriage and a family, but after becoming a mother, something began to shift. She felt increasingly alone in motherhood and slowly started to disconnect from her relationship without fully understanding what was happening.
In this deeply honest conversation, Mimi shares what ultimately led her to leave her 13-year marriage, why becoming a mother changed the dynamic of her relationship and the difficult decision to choose herself while raising a young daughter.
Mimi and Zoe also explore ambition after motherhood, mum guilt, asking for help, perfectionism and why becoming a mother can force us to rethink who we are, what we value and what success actually means.
At the heart of this conversation is a powerful reminder: choosing yourself doesn’t mean choosing your children any less.
💡 In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why relationships can change so dramatically after becoming parents
How loneliness and resentment can quietly build in motherhood
Why asking for and accepting help is so important
How to balance ambition with being the mother you want to be
Why perfectionism becomes impossible once you have children
How to recognise when your life no longer feels aligned
Why choosing yourself can also model something powerful for your children
How self-acceptance can change the way you experience motherhood
Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode of Motherkind. It helps more mothers find the show and keeps our community growing.
Watch every full episode on YouTube and subscribe.
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Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode of Motherkind. It helps more mothers find the show and keeps our community growing.
If you enjoyed this episode, you might also enjoy: The "Old You" is Gone, Here's How to Embrace Who You're Becoming — Jada Sezer
Feeling different since becoming a mother? Get clarity on who you’re becoming now and download your FREE Matrescence Cheat Sheet
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Get Zoe’s Sunday Times bestselling book, 'Motherkind: A New Way to Thrive in a World of Endless Expectations’
This Motherkind episode is sponsored by:
Headline sponsor Wild Nutrition, the brand raising the bar for women’s supplements. Want to feel the Food-Grown difference yourself? Get 50% off for three months at wildnutrition.com/motherkind. Ts and Cs apply.
Key topics
Motherhood identity • Matrescence • Relationships after children • Marriage after motherhood • Divorce • Separation • Single motherhood • Mum guilt • Mental load • Resentment • Asking for help • Ambition after motherhood • Self-acceptance • Choosing yourself • Motherhood and relationships • Working motherhood • Perfectionism • Life transitions • Finding yourself again • Mimi Ikonn
