Most listened to episode in 2025: "I couldn't be the mother I wanted to be" Millie Mackintosh on anxiety, alcohol and motherhood

0:00Hey, welcome to Motherkind. It is me, your host Zoe Blaski. I am so happy you are here and I cannot wait for you to hear this episode one of our most downloaded in the world. you feel validated, supported and understood in motherhood, even in our world of endless expectations. I am really excited about this episode because not only is my guest Millie McIntosh wonderful, brave and honest, we are also speaking about a topic that is very close to my heart, which is being sober. As many of you might know, I stopped drinking 11 years ago. It's actually wild saying that. After about two to three years of really cutting back, I decided that I just didn't want it in my life anymore because even one glass of wine was giving me anxiety the next day, which is unbelievable, isn't it?

1:02And I decided it just wasn't worth it. The costs were far outweighing any benefits for me. And I have to say, stopping completely while it isn't right for everyone was life changing for me. As it has been for Millie, as we talk about in this episode. Many of you will know Millie. She's an author, entrepreneur and made in Chelsea alumni. And she's just released a book called Bad Drunk, which is her story of destructive drinking, deciding to stop, sticking with it and how it's changed her life and motherhood. I love this chat. We talk a lot about motherhood and drinking where there is so much to unpack there, isn't it?

1:40We talk about how Millie knew something had to change, how her friendships have changed, which I know is something many, many, many people think about relating to alcohol and what her life is like now without alcohol in it. I hope you love this episode. Here it is.

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3:20Start 2026 rooted in wellness. T's and C's apply. Craig's never shown an interest in beekeeping before but that's the sound of him buying 2 ,000 worker bees rather than doing his self-assessment. Craig, you live in a sixth floor flat. The deadline is 31st of January. Less distraction, more action. Don't be like Craig. Visit gov.uk forward slash self-assessment today. Payment support may be available. Well, Millie, welcome. I'm so excited to sit with you and hear about what's been going on. Thank you. I've seen you obviously at my book launch and And I've been really excited to chat to you too because you are also sober.

4:02And it's just so much easier for me having the conversation with someone that gets it because they've also experienced it and also like living alcohol-free life and enjoying the benefits. Yeah, you're right. I think it is one of those things, almost like motherhood, in that you kind of have to experience it to know what it's like. exactly and other people I've had I mean I've had so many great conversations with with lots of people and so many people are even if they're not sober are sober curious so I've been really lucky since writing the book I've had lots of really interesting conversations people seem to be really open to it I think it was a good time for the book to come out it's you know it's now February but I think people lots of people did dry jan and were feeling great and kind of wanting to continue it that's how I started really I did dry I was actually on honeymoon my poor husband who thought I'd married this party girl and then on honeymoon I was like I'm gonna do dry January and then I felt so good it was people say that the more that you needed to stop the greater the benefits and the quicker you notice it and so it was really obvious to me this was just gonna carry on in my life I felt so different almost kind of within a week or two yeah and then I thought I'll do another month and I'll do another month and that was 11 years ago which is kind of wild I think that's such a good way for people to start though because saying I'll never drink again feels like such a terrifying statement to make and it puts people off because then they're scared of failing they're scared of even if it's something they really want for themselves they're scared of the failure so that's just it puts you off starting yeah if you go I'm just going to do it one month and then see how I feel and then your 90 days set yourself a challenge but even just taking it day by day step by step yeah and even if you go back to it you still had all the benefit of what it was like to you know not have that in your life I love thinking of things of like an experiment and I remember thinking I'm just going to do this as an experiment and see how different I feel and the results were pretty clear I was like okay I better carry this on what was it like for you when did you because I know in the book you talk about lots of false starts lots of bargaining with yourself lots of rules and boundaries I'm only going to drink at this time in this type of drink and I think a lot of people relate I tried all of the different yeah all the different like bargaining tricks with myself of it's going to be different this time because I'm not going to mix my drinks I'm only going to have three drinks I'm only going to have one drink it was all lies but it was just what I would tell myself what was that denial what was under that because I think so many people I speak to friends who say that well I'm only I'm stopping drinking at 9 p.m and then sort of midnight and they're still going for it what what is that denial with that bargaining with yourself I think it's fear it's yeah and it wouldn't be like I'm saying at home I'm only going to drink till 9 p.m it would be when I was out it wasn't I'm going to make a bargain with myself to only have three drinks when I'm sitting on the sofa at home and it was mainly an issue for me when I was in social situations because of my social anxiety but I wasn't aware of that for so long.

7:17Yeah so in many ways you're self-medicating. Yeah because I felt I was self-medicating because I felt uncomfortable because it was the only way I felt I could like have a release and cope with stress or anything that I've been holding on to or feeling too uncomfortable to talk about. When I drank was the time that I felt I could tell my friend that really uncomfortable thing that I was carrying around with me or when I could just let off steam and kind of forget about whatever was going on in my life and just become someone else for the night and literally forget what even happened that night because I wouldn't be able to remember after drinking to blackout.

8:00So I was kind of like, I'm just going to get into that state where I don't know who I am. And then the next day I won't even be able to remember what I did. What I find so interesting is for me, I would often drink to blackout. I never actually called myself an alcoholic. I still wouldn't, but I definitely drank to a blackout. And I thought that was normal. I mean, it seemed like everyone at uni was doing that. It was only when years later someone said, no, that is not normal drinking to drink to blackout. It's not normal that you don't remember. That's abnormal drinking. You have a dysfunctional relationship with alcohol.

8:35I was like, what? It felt like new news because in our generation, I think it's different now, isn't it, for the younger generations? But our generation, that was completely normalized. I mean, yeah, passing out, like waking up, having wet yourself, like stand a Saturday night. It's awful. Now we're just dealing with children, children wetting themselves. Yeah, and then when we have teenagers, God knows. But I feel like I've cracked some secret code by discovering alcohol-free life. I believed this lie for so many years that alcohol was the answer. And it's a con. Yeah, I loved that line in the book where you said, in my teenage years I rebelled by drinking.

9:19Now I feel like in my 30s I'm rebelling by not drinking. And it's so true, isn't it? I feel like that. I feel it does feel counter-cultural. I actually love it that I don't drink I really like that that's part of my identity. At the beginning I felt so scared of it when I first stopped I did worry about my social life and how I was going to get through social situations without it. How did you get through those early social situations first party first wedding those are things that people often it was uncomfortable I had anxiety I didn't really enjoy myself I didn't feel like dancing left early found everyone else who was who when they were drunk quite annoying yeah there's definitely like a limit in there yeah I get to like 9 10 and then I'm like okay everyone's just yeah burying rubbish at me now this isn't I know I'd have a taxi booked at like a certain time yeah if I wasn't somewhere where you could just instantly get an uber I'd have you know a driver coming so I'd know okay I've got five hours I'm going to make it to this time and then find my people yeah that is what is interesting I remember going to a big 40th in Ibiza and I'm pretty sure it's the only one sober there but I found in like another party just this girl and we just we were we both instantly realized that we weren't drinking and we just had the most incredible conversation I was like I've enjoyed the party I enjoyed the music I enjoyed seeing my friends and I've had this just really sort of deep lovely conversation with this person I never would have met or sat down with and I feel like those you can have some such special moments well those conversations are actually straight away much more interesting than any of the conversations you would have having if you were drunk and the other person was drunk yeah yeah it's funny when sometimes I'm sat next to someone else sober but we don't click anything okay the host has thought put the sober people together but then you're like you actually don't click yeah then I've also been sat next to someone that was heavily drinking and it was that was also uncomfortable so you just have to try and find the people that you feel a connection with I often find also if there's a pregnant person you know that you're like they're your friends perfect because they're not going to be drinking or you can offer to be the designated driver or sometimes you end up being the person looking after the drunk person that's had one too many and you know that I actually quite like taking that role sometimes because it's like without yeah that used to be me yeah I find myself at family parties not actually not many people in my family drink but if it's like sort of family friends parties I'll find myself hanging out with the kids a lot I actually really like that too I'm like the one in the garden playing the games the kids exactly and I feel exactly more comfortable like that yeah yeah did your friendships change I think that's another thing there's so many people worry about and I was worried about that and actually my friendships have changed but I would say for the better yeah tell us about that it's been a bit painful I've had friends who would normally have always invited me for a dinner or a lunch only want to meet up now if it's like to go for a walk or it's like I don't get given the kind of the dinner slot now I get you've been downgraded I've been downgraded to I would argue upgraded I mean but then I love going I love like getting a coffee in the park and going for a walk I'm like that that suits me fine I love having a heart-to-heart while walking but it was seeing that kind of on Instagram where they've been like oh I can't do Saturday night like can we do you know walk on Sunday during the day and then you see the pictures from Saturday night where they got dolled up and went out with a group of girls and I wasn't invited.

13:05And I maybe would have been invited to that dinner before. But I wouldn't want to sit at that dinner now and be the only sober one. Yeah. How did that feel? Because you talk a lot about at school, and I think, again, a lot of people are going to relate to this, me too, feeling left out of that girl group. Did that sort of re-trigger that? Yeah, it did. And how have you moved through that? I have just moved through it by realising that it's okay to not be in the same circles in the same way it's just it's just different and I've made new friends and we go and do wellnessy things together yeah like we're gonna do soon aren't we and I go I meet up with a friend and I just met other people with more similar interests yeah and I'm still friends with my other friends but they go out and do their kind of boozy nights out with a different group of people I see them one-to-one and then yeah and I like small group settings anyway I don't I'm not the sober girl that wants to go out all night dancing and still has the same energy without alcohol like I do not I actually love being at home in the evenings and I love going to bed early I love getting a really good sleep score on my aura ring I'm obsessed with just feeling well and I don't need to be the you know the the crazy party girl anymore that's I've kind of hung up my that hat but I still have a side of me that wants to be fun and silly and do some outrageous things but they might be more like going to an ecstatic dance or you know going and doing something in nature that's you know a bit out there or you know going and doing a different going and doing like some kind of wellnessy woo woo experiences is way more up my street yeah me too than something that's gonna leave me feeling shit the next day because you had two really big you know the shift to motherhood is of is a massive identity mess really isn't it it's like who am I now what's important to me and then you did that almost simultaneously with stopping drinking and shedding that quite heavily worn kind of party girl identity how did you move through that and figure out what's important to you now who you are now what your values are how did you do that process it was a big shift and it's also been since I turned 30 so I go into my 30s I get pregnant we go into lockdown and my first baby during lockdown so all of this is going on while the world was also going through this like massive shift and And it changed how we all feel, I think, about a lot of things.

15:48So there was a lot of newness. It was like I'm now a new mum, quite quickly became a new mum of two under two. We've been through COVID. My mental health was struggling. And my drinking was worse than ever. So when I stopped drinking, it was like I had to really rebuild myself. And I realised that I hadn't ever truly really got to know myself. and since I was a teenager I had been socializing with the crutch of alcohol like so many others and I'd never built the confidence in myself to to feel good in social situations and actually I didn't love myself at all I actually you know was used to hating myself and feeling constantly that I was kind of punishing myself and being really mean to myself in my with what I would say to myself in my head so there was a lot of work to do in therapy once I stopped drinking and I don't think I could really scratch the surface in terms of healing and working on myself until I had stopped and when I did stop drinking it wasn't immediately I did feel a lot better like you said over that first month even you're like wow like I feel a lot better they call it like the pink cloud don't they it's pink cloud phenomenon where you're you feel like you've you've stopped drinking alcohol and suddenly all your problems are fixed you feel amazing and then you really start feeling everything because you're not numbing and for me that actually led to a bit of a breakdown last year and I'd been trying everything every wellness thing everything possible to just heal myself and I ended up having a breakdown and have been on medication since and that has really taught me a lot and I've been able to do the work over the last year in therapy to really go deep and look at the things that made me want to drink the things that have caused my anxiety and depression um and it's an ongoing process I don't think you ever just are fixed and healed it's like that'll be something to work on forever but I've really got to know myself a lot more in the last year and I feel so much more confident and just at ease with myself yeah you seem it you really do seem it like far more grounded and embodied I think this is such an interesting thing to talk about because lots of people think that stopping drinking is just stopping drinking whereas my experience of it and your experience of it and I think lots of people would say is that it's so much more than that it's kind of there's nowhere to hide anymore you really I really had to learn like all these new skills like feeling my feelings and not numbing out and I had to learn about yeah there's other because there's other ways we can numb out right it's not just drinking it's like looking at it's like emotional sobriety being aware of all the things that all the things that we do to not feel like whether it's being super busy all the time yeah which was I've definitely gone into work holism at times yeah that's my one of my good go-tos go to just constantly so busy that you can't feel because you don't have time um controlling everything that's huge I think especially in motherhood because that's so sort of celebrated a lot yeah being weird with food binging on sugar binging on junk food and then shaming myself and hating myself and actually realizing an addictive pattern with food so that has been really eye-opening and something I've been doing some work on in therapy um even for me it's also stuff like impulse spending shopping I have ADHD as well so understanding the way that I'm seeking dopamine when it comes to shopping and sugar is is really helpful actually because I can I can recognize okay why am I doing that how have you connected them with the emotional side of yourself and the feeling side of yourself and was it as sort of scary as you thought it was going to be no it was more it's more recognizing when the behaviors are coming up and then pausing and going okay like what what's really going on and normally doing a therapy session and then going in and doing some inner child work and discovering the younger me who wants validation and wants to be heard and is feeling scared.

20:21I've been doing lots of EMDR and often you go into a session you don't know where you're going to go and it's really surprising sometimes the memory that you'll be taken to. Something maybe you didn't even remember that's a subconscious memory. It's crazy isn't it and yet these things just drive. I remember a therapist saying to me once the thing is though is that your your teenager's in charge at the moment that is so true yeah I wasn't in my adult calls me out yeah even when I'm like no and I know and then I'm like why am I being so resistant to what she's saying and then and I also recognize sometimes I'm like push trying to push the therapist away yeah and it's it's recognizing my it's like how she's almost like I speak to her almost like she's almost like a mother figure and then sometimes I try to just you know shut down and say no I actually think I don't I want to stop seeing you and she's she could she could just call me out she's like we're just getting somewhere now and you suddenly want to stop something that I think about all the time is the kind of amazing power of doing this kind of healing and this therapy work for our kids like how cycle breaking it is and just your kids have got a different mum without a doubt than the mum that was you know deep in over drinking and and everything that was going on so different but I also think about how hard it is to do this whilst you're a mum and I feel like how how do we hold those two truths that this is the most powerful thing you can do I believe that with all my heart and it's really hard because I remember I went deep into therapy when my eldest was six months and I would come out and I'd feel raw almost like my skin had been taken off because you know we were working on some really deep patterns that I've got and then I'd have to go to the nursery or you know spend an afternoon playing or in the playground you know you don't get like when pre-kids you don't get to just opt out of life.

22:21Mine's like doing the therapy session with the child in the room with an iPad and headphones yeah you know like that's sometimes reality that's the reality of how I managed to fit in the therapy is like I'm the child is in is there and that's not ideal no how have you managed those two I mean it's just it's a juggle it's yeah fitting it in in the evening or you know on the weekend or you know when the children are in the house and just trying to make it work with them watching tv and i've really committed to to not cancelling sessions and and having them in the diary is like something that can't be moved yeah so when work comes in it's like if i've got my therapy session that doesn't get moved there's other things that can move that's really powerful as well to keep that promise to yourself that's a huge part of healing my therapist said i'm going to charge you every week yeah even if you don't can't make the session you're going to get charged and that really like helped actually because I was like okay don't want to waste the money yeah so then you're like prioritizing it like I've got to do it yeah and we can be flexible when it if it has to move because of something but we have to have a session yeah and how how has the work that you've done on yourself impacted the girls do you think I think it's allowed me to notice when I'm being triggered by their behavior which is often yeah and instead of it's almost like reacting with the response that they want to get from me which is you know like I feel like my oldest daughter is so similar to me so when she's having a massive meltdown it makes me want to have a big reaction yeah just join in the tantrum yeah basically so if she the more difficult she's being the more angry I find myself getting and like so she's shouting I want to shout back kind of thing and she's screaming at me and so I just want to go back at her and it's catching myself and realising like I'm the parent.

24:23She's trying to get a reaction out of me but I get to choose how I react to her. And it's basically going against what I feel triggered to do and going no, like that's not the responsible thing to do and that's going to make it worse and actually just, you know, doing the opposite which is not really reacting and just being calm and just saying, okay, I can validate you straight away. I can hear you're having a hard time. I love a lot of what you post. And my go-to is like, stop crying, stop it. Just, you know, be quiet, like to try and shut it down. Same. But is instead going, it's okay. Like you can scream, you can shout at me as much as you want.

25:05The answer is still no. Yep. You're not having your iPad with dinner, but I understand this is hard for you. Let's talk about it. I get that you're angry. Like when you're, when you've calmed down, like I'll be sitting on the other side of the door and just really fighting the urge to fight fire with fire. That's our urge though, because that's what we did to our own feelings for decades. Like just shut them down. Stop it. Stop crying. And that's how we were, we were a parent. Yeah, of course. Yeah. It was the eighties. Feelings weren't a thing. No. And that's just, that's just how parenting was then.

25:37Yeah. It's like kids teach you so much. and I've been focused quite a lot on my younger one because I've been toilet training her but then my eldest is finding that really hard because I suppose basically spent all weekend really focused on Aurelia so I said to Sienna like you know this weekend we're going to do something just me and you and you know every day she's a bit like mommy I'm a bit sad and we just like have talks I'm like I've got to try and help your sister she's learning this new thing I try and get her involved to try and help her sister as well. So good she can say that to you, though, that I feel sad that she's not acting out that feeling.

26:15She can say that's probably because she's seen you label your feelings. But she has acted it out a bit, and then when she's calmed down, that's what it's about. So it's teaching them that it's OK to have big feelings and it's safe and that I'm not going to go anywhere, even though sometimes I literally want to run out the house and shut the door. Yeah, same. it's what I find the hardest is in the mornings and you know you know how people say how you start your day and it's so how you're going to feel for the rest of the day yeah but I have to turn it around sometimes because I can't feel like that all day because that first two hours of my day is extremely stressful often so I just try and not let it stress me out now yeah I prefer you can restart your day at any time I like that just restart and I say that to the girls actually quite a lot it's 6 p.m i'm like we're restarting this day well there's only half an hour left i don't care we're gonna have the best half we're gonna have the best half an hour that we've ever had are we gonna end strong and end strong you can begin again in any moment any moment you can just press the reset button i do that with the kids all the time and we literally go reset we we move our hands yeah and then we try and start again i feel like so much of that one of the reasons i I started the podcast actually, I felt like so much of that wellness world just completely didn't fit into my life as a mother, including like the morning routines.

27:35And I was like, are you kidding me? It's out the window. Yeah, what? When you get up at five to do it, that's a reality. Yeah. And then the kids are up at 5.30. Oh, great. Yeah, it does happen. The earlier I set my alarm. Yeah, they know. They absolutely know. Yeah, it's brutal. I'm trying to do my best. Sometimes I mess up, but I now always apologise to my kids. so if I respond to them in a way that I am not proud of afterwards like I shout or I'm say I'm kind of a bit rude to them I then say mommy shouldn't have said that I'm sorry I was just in the moment I was feeling a lot of big feelings I'm sorry I said that it was wrong I love you and teaching them it's okay to say sorry yeah I mean that's all that's it isn't it there's just that ability to repair and is this all new since you stopped drinking do you feel like you parent in a really different way I do also I've it's like I've been learning how to become a parent through this process because my kids have been growing up almost yourself first yeah and then to them so I've been like growing into myself into motherhood and more into my sober journey yeah as they're growing because I was at the end of us two and Aurelia was six months old when I stopped drinking I mean I think when I think about motherhood and drinking it makes so much sense the stats I think it's like your drinking accelerates three times as much when you enter motherhood I think is one statistic and I always find that kind of mind-blowing but but not because I think it's so dysregulating motherhood from a nervous system perspective yeah and matrescence it's like yeah everything's changing everything is the biggest life shift you can go through exactly it's not supported your nervous system is affected like no one's marriage feels better in that first year no i don't think so nobody's mental health is probably like at its strongest no no and then what do you turn to you know it makes so much sense to me that that sort of bedtime glass of wine because it does feel soothing on the nervous system short term or you go to the kids party it's you know it's really overstimulating you know it's midday everyone's having a drink yeah it's it's not just the the evening is definitely a big time where you're like count down to that drink in the evening but it's so like kids parties like you know christenings all these things to do with with kids and new life even like you know people bring you champagne to your bedside when you've just given birth it's like it's actually wild isn't it actually wild like you've just come out of surgery or you've just literally had your vagina stitched up but you know have some champagne yeah to just you know yeah I think that's because there's such a lack of understanding about what it really does to the body and mind isn't it yeah but I think that is changing now and what's really astounding to me is also the links to cancer that people just don't want to talk about and alcohol is linked to seven different types of cancer even moderate use you think about smoking and you think smoking cancer i don't think people are linking alcohol you think about some drinking a lot and you think that's bad for your liver but you don't you know you think okay also you think about that in huge quantities don't you yeah but you don't think alcohol cancer yeah it's almost like how smoking was sort of 30 40 years ago where it was very normal to smoke in pregnancy smoke you know it was almost prescribed i think at one point smoking and it feels like we're on that same path with alcohol with increased awareness what were some of the surprising things because i know you wrote the book with a doctor what was some of the things we thought oh my god I just wish I'd known it was having that effect on my body and mind one of the things I found out was that when you if you already have anxiety when you drink alcohol even a very moderate amount of alcohol like not even a binge drink amount just a couple of units a week you are changing your brain chemistry and you will be more anxious and that will not stop unless you completely stop drinking even if you're only drinking you know weekly like on the weekends a few glasses of wine I get so many messages from people since I'm talking about my alcohol-free journey and since the books come out saying this just isn't working for me anymore I read a message this morning and she said you know I only had two glasses of wine at the weekend and I felt so anxious the next day that is what happened to me that's why that's why I decided just to stop completely I thought it's not worth it I I was so I was doing so much work on kind of confidence and self-esteem and I would still have the odd glass of wine and I just noticed next day the anxiety I was like I don't want to feel this feeling anymore yeah I would same whether I had one drink or 10 drinks yeah my I would have a lot more anxiety the next day I mean if I had 10 drinks obviously I'd have an awful hangover and if I had had one I'd have a mild hangover but I would I could steal that heart racing sort of wake up in the night I wouldn't sleep well even if I just had one drink I could really notice how it ruins your sleep doesn't it because you don't get as much REM sleep and this is why I feel like the alcohol industry and just the media in general has really screwed our generation of mums with alcohol because it's like oh the the one glass is good for you that's a total myth yeah Total myth, one glass a day is not good for you.

33:09There are no health benefits to drinking alcohol. And it's dressed up in so many different ways, right? Like tequila's clean and, you know, you can have organic wine that has no sulfates in it. It's still ethanol. Whether it's a bottle of wine that's, you know,£2 ,000 or whether it's a bottle of cheap vodka from the corner shop, it's the same ethanol, just dressed up differently. And I feel like that sort of motherhood and drinking has just become, you know, the mummy needs wine. This baby grows on. I'm the reason my mum drinks. I mean, there's just it's become so normalized. I think it's painful.

33:48It's really, really done our generation a disservice. I joined in with that mummy needs wine culture. I fell for it. I was their baby of one arm, you know, pumping and a glass of wine. being like almost like it's my feminine right like yeah as a feminist to reclaim that part of you yeah yeah but it's such a con it's actually incredible isn't it when you start to peel back the layers of this messaging that we're we're given and so if someone's listening and they're thinking i relate to a lot of this where do you advise someone starts imagine someone is you know they've got two young kids, nervous systems fried, trying to juggle paid work on top of everything else.

34:37They're coming down after a tricky bedtime, a couple of glasses of wine. It feels like quite a strong crutch for them. And they're afraid, they're really afraid about what it would mean to stop, about what would come up. Where would you suggest that they start? I think the first thing is really just the acceptance that something needs to change and really sitting with that and being feeling like if you've got that the reason why that's really important because that's what's going to keep you like on the right path having like a you know being like this writing down all the reasons that the alcohol is stealing your joy writing down a kind of list of like these are the these are the benefits i'll have more money i'll have more time i'll have my weekends back i'll be able to do that thing that i alcohol was holding me back from doing so I think that's quite a good place to start and then just surrounding yourself with lots of information getting curious because that mindset shift that reframe is so powerful and when you actually realize the power in the decision you can make for yourself every time you say no thank you I don't drink it's really powerful and it just feels so scary but until you're on the other side of it yeah until you actually do it it's like any big changes and i remember when i left corporate it's actually quite similar i remember feeling like i couldn't imagine how am i gonna do how will i do life who's gonna pay me and what's gonna happen and i felt so afraid and then the moment i was on the other side of that i was like oh it's totally fine actually and there's all these amazing and you and you realize that when you can connect with the sober community.

36:19And there are so many people, especially I've really realized mums and women, particularly who feel affected by this kind of gray area drinking. When you don't think you're an alcoholic, you don't think you need to go to rehab, but you have developed a habit of drinking and it's causing you problems. Yeah. And you don't know how to stop and you always go back to it because it's what you know. And I would say, you know get support because it is it's a challenge and whether that's a friend or it's a therapist or it's going to aa because aa is for lots of different drinking problems it's not just somebody drinking um every morning you know and sneaking vodka into that orange juice or and and drinking around the clock it's it's for it's for disorder drinkers as well so there's lots of other different groups too there's sober coaches that do one-to-one coaching but also do courses there's apps books podcasts just get informed I think just surround yourself with the information really look at your social life what you're saying yes to what is actually going to be kind in that beginning you know the when you stop when you stop drinking there are things that will feel maybe too challenging to go to without a drink and it's actually just being kind to yourself to sometimes say no to things and start actually prioritizing yourself and not feeling like you've got to please everyone all the time yeah those early months are almost like you're you're almost like a little baby aren't you and the kind of vulnerability and just to be really gentle with yourself as you move through that and I think you know especially in motherhood there's such a big motivator with our children right for how much you want to connect with them on the weekends and be actually present so I think mum guilt is bad enough but I think that guilt of you know tv on all day on a Sunday because you're hungover is much harder to handle isn't it the weekends were a struggle and the weekends are hard like I have child care in the week and the weekend comes around and you're not like oh yay it's the weekend they're gonna arrest you I'm like, OK, the weekend's going to be actually harder than working during the week.

38:36Yeah, 100 percent. You know, the three year old and four year old and it's really intense. This weekend I was potty training all weekend and I actually enjoyed it because I was just really focused on my daughter the whole time. And we just did things together all weekend. We had made cakes. We played with her toy shop. We did lots of role play. We did like just loads of different activities, just the two of us. and it was really bonding and really sweet and yeah there were accidents but it just it wasn't stressful that kind of thing would have really stressed me out because it's potty train on a hangover is not the one yeah it'd be really difficult it'd be really difficult and I love getting up early with them on the weekends and you know they do watch a bit of tv but I like you know sit on the sofa with them and you just kind of go with the flow a bit more yeah I mean I it's so interesting for me because I stopped drinking before I had my girls but I often think about just how I felt then and having to manage the intensity of it hung over I just don't know if I ever if I just could have done it some of my worst memories of drinking after becoming a parent were the nights you know but coming back at you know maybe midnight after having a couple of drinks and then you're up in the night feeding the baby you know bottle feeding if you've been drinking with express milk but you're just sleep is so broken by the children already and yeah and then the next day is just impossible the anxiety yeah it really did feel like awful yeah and I think with this mummy needs the mummy needs wine culture and like the kind of mums all going out and having fun it's like of course you they feel like they want to go and have fun and there's nothing wrong with that but it's no one really talks about the aftermath of getting back getting home and then I mean rarely I think is the dad up with the baby in the night or the young children in the night maybe it's different for every couple and it's just incredibly hard without adding alcohol in yeah I agree and I feel I just feel like I just wish more people knew what's on the other side of it what do you feel like it's like the secret yes i've been finally i've been i've got access to it like i know i now know the secret what's that here knowing what you know what do you wish you'd known back then that you could tell someone listening just be like it's like this or think about this i would just say like just how different life can feel how freeing it feels and all you've got to do is say no is prioritize it sounds like the most simple thing but it when I really just realized that I get to not drink yeah instead of not instead of like at the beginning like oh I could never drink again like this has happened to me like and then I actually was like no actually yeah you're switching around switched it and made the reframe to like I get to never drink again and I was like wow that was such a shift yeah this is this is powerful and I can't imagine what my life would be like I mean I can I can kind of imagine what my life would have been like if I didn't stop but it was really sad and scary and I think I was really on a downward spiral and could have really like lost everything that I cared about so incredible honestly I just such inspiration I think just normalizing these conversations talking about taboo topics is something I feel passionate about and just making talking about sobriety more normal and and making it seem accessible to people because it is but we're sold this lie that alcohol is the answer and big alcohol I'm coming for you because I'm gonna be in serious trouble I just I think like we're fed up of being lied to yeah especially the fact that alcohol is strategically marketed to mothers which is is wild yeah I think there's big shifts coming exciting times well I always ask the same question at the end which is if you could give just one gift to all the mothers in the world what would it be and why I could give one gift to all the mothers in the world I would give them time because I think time truly is our largest commodity like it is something we all just feel like we want more of just tie I'd give them some time for themselves because where's the village literally it doesn't exist like everyone's got everyone struggles and I feel very fortunate I have been able to have help on this motherhood journey and it's still been hard but there's you know there's so many mothers out there that don't have any kind of support so I'd say some time for themselves and I mean I guess we also all just want that a bit of that time back with our babies I'm really feeling that at the moment like I wish I could just like pause time because my oldest being out of nappies has really been emotional for me I really realized I was putting off potty training her because I'm not ready to let go of her being my baby and I'm like I don't think I'm gonna have any more so it's it's really like sad for me to to make peace with that it's a grief isn't it I think it's a grief that we don't talk about enough that watching that time pass in front of our eyes you can't stop it no no but then we get to feel our feelings because we're sober damn it oh Millie thank you so much and the book is obviously available everywhere it's available yeah wherever you can get your book there's an it's audio as well um which was quite interesting to do so if you want to listen to my voice that you can download the audio book yeah i i'm so grateful that i discovered alcohol free life and that's why i did the book to just try and share it with everyone it's brilliant and it's i love that it's practical it's written with an amazing dr ellie so i really love the mix of your story and kind of that really strong scientific basis.

45:00I'm not the expert, so that's why I really wanted her input to the book. And I'm getting so many messages every day from people saying they've read it and it's helping. So it makes me really glad that I was brave and did it because it was kind of nerve-wracking. It is nerve-wracking because it's so vulnerable. But we're so glad that you did. So thank you, Millie. Thank you for having me. I feel like I could talk all day. Oh, thank you. But we need to actually go out sober dancing. I know. every time I see you we're like we're gonna do it we're gonna do it we're gonna do it