The Rodial Founder on Burnout, Discipline and Why Hustle Culture Fails Mothers

21:03Maria Hatzistefanis:So hit subscribe. You've really got nothing to lose.

21:06Zoe Blaskey:So if someone is listening and thinking, oh, my gosh, I totally get this. Right. Because there are so many hours in the day. And you're right. We don't talk enough about the physical energy. Right. Going to meet people, the mental load energy, replying to messages, checking in, remembering birthdays, their kids' birthdays, you know, as well as the emotional energy that it takes to maintain friendships. So I think that's really important to talk about. But if someone is listening who is in a big job or growing a business and has young kids and is struggling to keep up with friends, having had this kind of hindsight, what would you say to them?

21:45Zoe Blaskey:Would you say, you know, do it as you did? Think about it in seasons. Or would you say, hang on to a few and let the rest go, perhaps? What would your advice be with your hindsight?

21:55Maria Hatzistefanis:I would just keep a few key friendships that are people who I can be myself. Yes. I don't need to give a performance. I don't need to pretend I'm someone else. So identify a handful of key relationships that are important to you, that fill you up, that even having a 15 minute phone call, it lifts you up for the day.

22:24Zoe Blaskey:identify who these people are yes they've got to be energy givers yeah not energy drains right

22:30Maria Hatzistefanis:100 yeah um i would do that and then i have a little strategy for events which um i could have executed before but i'm doing it now uh when you're invited to something that's interesting uh you don't have to stay for hours yes just go sometimes i'll go to an event for 20 minutes say a couple of hellos to people that I care about and then exit. So I could have been a bit more strategic and a bit more intentional and open to some fun elements that were coming through my way. But the idea was, oh, I don't have three hours to spend. You don't have to stay for three hours.

23:10Zoe Blaskey:That's such good advice. And I think it links into something else that you talk about so beautifully, which is this kind of people pleasing, right? Because that's quite a people pleasing thing to think, okay, I've been invited for three hours. I need to go through three hours. Whereas what I'm hearing you say is actually you can decide, yes, whether or not you go, but you can decide how you show up to that thing. Tell us about, you speak so brilliantly about this, about your journey with saying no and setting boundaries and people pleasing and how that's helped you get to where you are now.

23:40Maria Hatzistefanis:I used to be a massive people pleaser.

23:43Zoe Blaskey:So anyway, we're in good company. I think it's a very, it's so common, especially for women.

23:51Maria Hatzistefanis:Yes, it's, I think men have it easier to say no. We like to be accommodating and we like to support. And, you know, for me at the end of the day, and I'm going to be very hardcore about this, but there's two things. Does it give me joy? And does it move my business? If it does neither, don't go. don't say yes you see I also include it gives me joy yes so this is a friendship you would say I know I'm gonna go and I know I'm gonna be elevated and lifted and I'll go back home with new energy for my for my family and for my work I know that these are things that would really make me happy so I will go but if it's something that you feel I have to go and I don't really like these people, but I have FOMO and a lot of my friends.

24:47Zoe Blaskey:Or I don't know how to say no, or I don't want to look like a bitch, which is what a

24:50Maria Hatzistefanis:lot of people say. Exactly. So a friend of mine the other day messaged me and said, Maria, are you available on that day in the evening for a dinner? And I like this person, this friend. And I said, yes. And then the next message was that was a big charity evening event. I would need to dress up. It was a massive, you know, evening event. One of those I, you know, I'm not into anymore.

25:23Zoe Blaskey:I can feel your energy draining as I'm talking about it.

25:25Maria Hatzistefanis:So she messages me all that. And I look at it and I said, well, I said, yes, because I thought we would be having an intimate girls dinner. on something fun. And now this is becoming a whole other thing. So immediately I go back, my old me would have said, okay, because I said yes, a minute ago, same. And I go back and I say, I'm just not in the mood for a big ball right now. Um, we can do an intimate girls dinner another night. Thank you for thinking of me. Full stop. She wasn't upset. I really explained. I want to see you, but not within that context. But honestly, I felt very proud of myself because my old me would have said yes, then resented it, then would have gone and been miserable that night.

26:13Maria Hatzistefanis:And so it just, you just have to be honest with people and it make me feel so good. So these are small tricks that I think we mature into them and we mature into how we interact with our friends and being honest while protecting our time.

26:31Zoe Blaskey:Yeah, and I think an area where this comes up so much is around school life. Because, my word, there is a lot of coffee mornings, fates, bake-offs, PTA. How did you work out, okay, what's important to do with the boys from a school perspective and what you could not do? And how, yeah, how did you figure that stuff out? Because I know so many of our listeners will be in that space right now? So with my first son, I did everything. Did you?

27:02Maria Hatzistefanis:You did not.

27:03Zoe Blaskey:You were running the business and on the PTA.

27:06Maria Hatzistefanis:Yes, I was. I mean, I didn't attend all the meetings, but quiz nights, everything, I would be there. And I did that for a year or two. And then I just became a lot more selective with my second son. I can't even remember anything I attended. Maybe the first coffee morning of the whole term, that was it. But, you know, I feel sometimes you have to explore the grounds and explore. And I had to learn what events I should go to, what gatherings are important, where I should get the information. And if I cannot go, can I get the information from someone else? Yes. So I don't feel out of the loop. So I had to experiment.

27:56Maria Hatzistefanis:I had to spend some hours. And I feel in all fairness, at the beginning, you know, if it's your first child and it's your first year at school, I think you have to do those things.

28:07Zoe Blaskey:And a part of you kind of wants to. Like, I wanted to go to that stuff. Now with my second, I'm the same bit like, OK, I'm not so, you know, I know what that's like. Yeah, exactly. I want to switch now to talk to the woman who, the mother who is thinking about starting a business or who has got a business, but she wants to, she wants to grow it. Tell me about what are some of the kind of biggest lessons? And I'm thinking particularly about your new book, which is, you know, I was sharing with you earlier. It feels like that's the book that you've written, the fourth book that you've written is you almost mentoring, you know, my sort of generation about how you can do this, how you can, you know, have a family and run something successful.

28:49Zoe Blaskey:So what are some of the kind of big lessons that you want to impart to us?

28:56Maria Hatzistefanis:First of all, start small and start with something that you own. A lot of times I will hear young entrepreneurs who want to start a business and I have this product in mind I want to launch. Shall I launch that product or another 20? And my answer is launch that one product. Yes. Be very specific about what you do. it's better to start small and niche and create a name of yourself and your product and your brand rather than try to be everything to everyone. Especially when you're trying to combine work and motherhood and family, it is very important to be very, very specific about your business.

29:48Maria Hatzistefanis:The other thing that's important is find, and I talk about this in my new book, How to Make Your First Million. It is the network around you. I talk a lot about networking. I talk a lot about creating that circle of people around you. So I remember when I started my business, which was literally from a backroom at home with my savings, I started Rodial Really Small. all my first circle of um influence was um three other moms who actually were starting small businesses one was in a nail polish business the other was in um activewear and they all had one product and we would get together at the start where did you meet them at school

30:35Zoe Blaskey:i know because you had it before the boys yeah i had them before yeah so i've through the

30:40Maria Hatzistefanis:neighborhood through, I don't know, like a yoga class. And we talked and there were, I remember three, four moms, we would all get to a Starbucks and talk about where we are with our business at what stage. It's very empowering when you have people around you who go through a similar stage of starting a small business or being at the very beginning. And it was the best time of we would meet once every few weeks. And I was so much looking forward to that. So it's important not to be lonely when you are in that journey to have people around you that you find and you invest time and then you feel you're not alone.

31:24Maria Hatzistefanis:And then the third thing is it's all about discipline. Because a lot of people think that you wake up, even after 25 years, I wake up every single day. Am I motivated every single day? No. Most of the days I'm not motivated, but I'm disciplined. And so in order for a business to survive, to grow, to go to the next step, it's all about discipline. You know, you wake up one morning, you haven't had a good night's sleep, your kids need your attention, you have half an hour, do something that matters out of discipline, keep it going. You know, one day you can do a few hours, another day you only have half an hour, 15 minutes.

32:06Maria Hatzistefanis:Do something that gives you the traction.

32:09Zoe Blaskey:Yes, I love that. And I'm like nodding because everything that you're saying, I have that group of women. There are four of us that live locally and we all have businesses the same sort of size and we meet once a month. And it is my favorite thing in my whole calendar. I absolutely love it. And it's actually surprisingly easy to find those people.

32:28Maria Hatzistefanis:A hundred percent. Yes. And it's important. You know, some people would message me and say, oh, I'm a college student and I want to start my business. Can you mentor me? And I talk about - I should think you get hundreds of those a day. I talk about this in my book and kind of, you know, we have to get away from mentoring because everyone is busy with their work, with family. Who has time to mentor someone they've never met before? It's hard, but for me, I never had a mentor. I never looked for a mentor because I I was very down to earth. Why would this person spare their time, mentor, take me under their wing and teach me all their work?

33:08Maria Hatzistefanis:Who would do that? I don't know. People do. People do. I don't know. Maybe they're professionals. Maybe. They get paid to do that. But for me, what really worked was that network of people like me at the same level. And anyone can do it. Anyone can find those. Or even if you're changing career, right?

33:28Zoe Blaskey:Like there must be, you know, if you've got kids at nursery or just in your area and you want to make a big career change in motherhood, there'll be other people going through that. Find them and connect. Yeah. And connect.

33:39Maria Hatzistefanis:You know, go if there is a talk. I've met so many people by going to a talk. And then at the end you sit. If you have a common interest, the other people who are attending the talk could be potential contacts of yours that you can develop a friendship. or professional connection. So, you know, anytime you have just, as we say, the ROI of your time, return on investment, what is the one thing I can do every week that can move me towards my goals?

34:13Zoe Blaskey:And I actually think people think that those, that sort of family life and that life work apart from each other. I actually think they work together. I've had some incredible, I mean, obviously it's easy for me because I work in the motherhood space. everyone in the playground is a potential listener to me and I'm making sure they know about the podcast but you know you meet so many people you know you're sat at rhyme time or whatever you know chatting to the person next to you not just about the sleep schedules and the how weaning's going I think it's so good to also talk about you know are you what's what's your career situation what's what are you doing work are you going back you know there's amazing networks to be had everywhere you go with your children I think that women mothers are so open to it that's

34:55Maria Hatzistefanis:been my experience a lot of what i write in my my last book how to make your first million which is more about mindset rather than the actual million it's networking yeah and ways that you can go out there and network the smart way and find the right people um you know i wasn't a natural networker I had to work on it. And now I've learned some of the most amazing pieces of information or made amazing connections just by being in an elevator and speaking to the person next to me.

35:31Zoe Blaskey:Yes, I'm the same. I'm naturally.

35:33Maria Hatzistefanis:Wow. So I've worked on it over the years and it's it's very satisfying. It's very energizing and you learn a lot. So a lot of what I do now and what I talk about is all about networking and circle of friends around you. This is super important in 2026.

35:52Zoe Blaskey:You know what I've got better at as well is picking up the phone. So my husband and I both work at home. He's an entrepreneur as well. And I noticed he's on the phone a lot. And it's just friends calling him. Can you give me some advice? Or he's, I'm just going to call this guy and just ask about this thing. And I was like, I'm not doing this. this is like a huge difference between us. So I was like, I force myself sometimes, who could I call today? You know, even just to connect or a question to ask, because I don't naturally do that. I'm naturally super introverted. I want to put my head down and just get on with it.

36:25Zoe Blaskey:So I think pushing that comfort zone is, it's so important to build that network. And I just see, I just see mad entrepreneurs building these networks, helping each other. We need to be doing You are so right.

36:36Maria Hatzistefanis:My husband's on the phone from seven in the morning. He starts making calls and it's, I think it's a, yeah, it's a, it's a man thing that we need to implement. I'm not that good with phones as well. I just, I message a lot.

36:50Zoe Blaskey:If someone calls me, it freaks me out, to be honest, because these days it's what's happening. Yes. Yes. I do have some friends

36:55Maria Hatzistefanis:that we do speak with each other. So we've established that pattern that we're going to be speaking on the phone friends but you have to work on it a little bit so I want to ask about

37:05Zoe Blaskey:mindset and confidence because I think that there are so many mothers who want to step out of the confines of corporate life want to do something for themselves and I think particularly in the early years it can be so empowering to be your own boss you can do school pickup you're not going to have a boss telling you to you can't go to the sports day or whatever it is but what I keep appearing, and I wonder if you hear the same, is just that confidence and that belief, particularly in such a noisy, busy world, it feels like every idea has been done. You know, there's AI, there's just so much. What would you say to someone who is sort of teetering on the edge of, can I really do this?

37:48Maria Hatzistefanis:First of all, there's a bit of imposter syndrome to every single one of us, regardless of at what level you are. Even now, after 25 years, you know, I've never managed a business of this level before. So for me, every day is new. And I think, can I do this? Do I have the skills? Do you really have those thoughts? I do. I do. Because it's, you know, I've never managed a business of this size before to come in and say, now, how do I keep it relevant? How do I keep it growing so I'm still learning and every time you know I'm questioning myself sometimes and and I compare myself to other people who have grown faster or managing bigger companies so for me it's it's all about being honest with yourself so you have how many hours do you have between school drop-off doing a few family errands and then the pickup you have two hours

38:53Zoe Blaskey:be honest

38:54Maria Hatzistefanis:what is it that I can do in these two hours that can give me traction it could be start to build a website, it could be starting an Instagram page it would be posting something it would be making a call with a supplier or a potential partner and just carve out that time honestly don't say to yourself I need to run a business that requires eight hours a day for my time when you know you cannot do it at this stage just be honest this is the time that i have and have every day what i call again it's in my book it's a whole chapter on time management find the highlight of your day don't try to achieve 10 things a day try to achieve one what is the highlight of my day when i have my small business my highlight is write it down and whether you have half an hour to whatever you have focus on that highlight that's going to move you forward so um that for me is the way to start a business that is solid that is not built on plans that are unsustainable and you're not putting unnecessary pressure on yourself and the minute you build it into something that's stable and ready to go to the next level.

40:19Maria Hatzistefanis:If your kids are a little bit older and you have a bit more time, you can scale it. But just be realistic. And there's a lot that you can do even with a small amount of time.

40:28Zoe Blaskey:So do you think it's that realism coupled with positive action that you can overcome that fear that actually gives you the confidence? Are you saying that that confidence comes from actually taking the action?

40:41Maria Hatzistefanis:A hundred percent. It's, as I said before, discipline. Yes. Every time you have the time, be disciplined and the accrued discipline will get you to confidence.

40:55Zoe Blaskey:This is what I had to learn because I work at home. And so my office is actually opposite where we do all the clothes and it's just, I have to be so disciplined not to think I'm just going to go and do something for the house or do something for someone else or prep the dinner. It's so easy because those jobs are never ending. And I really had to I've really had to change this for myself. Those jobs are always going to be there, Zoe. But this moment, this hour that you've got all this, two hours to get this podcast out or write a chapter of my book or whatever it might be, you've got to take it.

41:29Zoe Blaskey:And I think that is a muscle that can be so hard for us as mothers, because as you were alluding to, we do run the mental load. We are often responsible for, you know, everything in the household. We want that to change, obviously. But, you know, for the reality, that's the reality for a lot of women. So I think that discipline is so important to be able to think, no, I'm going to leave whatever it is that I have to leave. Yeah. And focus on my business.

41:55Maria Hatzistefanis:And put it down in your diary. If you think you're going to be at home and you're going to be distracted by a lot of other things that need your attention, just write it in your diary. I use my iPhone a lot, my iPhone diary. 11 to 12, work on my business. That is in the diary. You've agreed. Yes. Slot it like a meeting, even if it's just a meeting with yourself. If you slot it in, you know, this is the time and at the end of it, you can do anything you want. But just being a bit more structured, even if you're on your own, actually, if you're on your own, you need to be more structured and you need to be more disciplined with your time.

42:35Zoe Blaskey:So if someone say someone said, I think that's so accurate what you're saying, that you've got two, three hours a day to work on the business. Where would you start? I know it's a difficult question because we might be talking about a product business. We might be talking about a service business. But there is so much advice online now, right? This whole sort of entrepreneur, this is a new category and it's just exploded. And books like yours need to cut through some of the noise because some people will say, work on your personal brand. Grow a community before you even think about launching a product.

43:06Zoe Blaskey:Other people say, no, no, no, no. You need to develop your product first. You need to test it in the market. Other people will say, no, no, no. You need to. How does someone. OK, I've got two, three hours. What should I be focusing on?

43:20Maria Hatzistefanis:Well, you need to do it all. You can't just do one. But again, you can structure your week. Let's say one day I am going to write down who my target market is. Very important to know who you're talking to. The next day I am going to contact a supplier or put together a plan of what my product looks like. then the third day I am going to do a reel or post something that connects me with my audience and builds my personal brand. Write down all the elements that you've heard that you need to do. I can't say focus on one or the other. It depends on the business and you have to do it all at the end of the day but it's just structuring it and doing one every day so it all comes together at the end.

44:15Zoe Blaskey:And I want to finish by asking about funding, because we know this statistic that less than 2 % of VC funding goes to women. I suspect when you apply that to mothers, it would be, gosh knows, 0.5, 0.2. You obviously didn't take external money and bootstrapped the business. If someone's at the start of their journey, what would you advise them to do? Do you think that more women with startup ideas should be going to get VC funding? Or do you think, particularly for mothers in this season where they've got young children. Is it more of a bootstrap model? What's your perspective on it?

44:49Maria Hatzistefanis:So you're right, Zoe, I didn't take any investment. I tried to. So I paged for investment. I just didn't have anything. And when I started, I guess I didn't convince anyone I was worth to be invested. For me, in order to get investment, you have to prove yourself first. No one is going to throw money on an idea anymore, whether you're a mom, whether you are a single woman living your life, or whether you are an experienced man. These days, funding is harder and harder. And anyone who invests need to see proof of concept, which means the business needs to have launched it needs to be operating for I would say a couple of years and prove that you can make it happen it's it's very hard these days unless you're a serial entrepreneur and you you've just sold your company to Microsoft for a hundred million then you'll get funding but everyone else the rest of us it's hard so proof of concept at the beginning unless you have a network of family.

46:06Maria Hatzistefanis:Usually that's where I see some of the early investment happen, that you have people in your family who believe in your idea or friends and they all put a little bit of investing into it and hope they get it in the next round of funding. It is hard, but for me, that's the only way. Obviously, you can go to a bank. You can present a business plan. there are a lot of initiatives to support entrepreneurs and women especially. I haven't looked into details for those, but it is worth exploring with what's available. I know also with Princess Trust, there is, and I'm involved with them, that there are a few support systems, both financially and also business advice.

47:01Maria Hatzistefanis:So that's another area we look into. But at the beginning, I would expect 90 % bootstrapping the business. Women, we are multitaskers. We can do more than we think we can. And there's a lot that you can do at the beginning. and instead of paying people to do it for you, we can make it happen with a few hours a day.

47:23Zoe Blaskey:Sometimes those constraints in time and money can force that creativity because it's like, actually, I haven't got budget to hire a PR agency or I haven't got budget to have someone to run my social. I'm just going to have to get super creative, super disciplined, like you said, and just go for it. In that sort of energy, isn't it? That's what we need to start embodying. I've absolutely loved this conversation. Thank you so much. I always ask the same question at the end, which is if you could give just one gift to all the mothers in the world, what would that one gift be and why?

47:58Maria Hatzistefanis:Get rid of the guilt that you have and focus on living every day to the best that you can, really i feel that a lot of us women and mothers we overanalyze things in our heads we go through various scenarios and we waste a lot of our energy in our heads moved a lot by guilt whether the guilt is am i spending enough time with my children am i doing enough i have a business am i pushing my business enough do i have enough friends there's always that guilt that there is an area of our lives that we neglect and I feel it just wasted energy so if we can get rid of guilt and not living our life in our heads we'll have a lot more productive time in the present to make things happen I love that thank you so much and we'll pop

49:04Zoe Blaskey:the link to all four of Maria's books but her new one in the show notes if anyone wants to go and check it out thank you so much thank you Zoe you