The ultimate (realistic) guide to fitness in motherhood, with Elizabeth Davies

0:07Welcome to Motherkind. We are proudly sponsored by Wild Nutrition Women Supplements. I am your host Zoe Blaski and this is the show that is going to grab you by the hand and be your guide for the wild ride that is modern motherhood. This week as part of our September Reset mini-series we are talking all things fitness with the amazing Elizabeth Davies aka This Woman Lifts. In this powerful episode you're going to learn why so much of the fitness content we consume has one aim, to make us feel bad. Why as mothers we can't work out like everyone else, how to set realistic goals for ourselves, how to get back into fitness and how to keep going when we have constant curveballs.

0:51Elizabeth talks about exercise in our 30s and 40s like paying into a pension pot for the future. And I absolutely love that because I want to be a fit, strong, healthy old lady or hopefully grandma. I'm obsessed about being a grandma one day. Is that weird? Does anyone else relate to that? I absolutely love this episode. It's funny. it's real and it's going to help you completely reframe your fitness as a mother. Here it is.

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2:50Elizabeth, I'm so excited to be chatting to you this morning. We started at the same time about eight, nine years ago, and it's just been amazing to watch your, you know, your message gets stronger and just so resonant. So I'm super excited to dive into everything today. Thanks for having me. Likewise, Zoe, it has been such a pleasure to sort of go along this journey in parallel to you and see you soar too and see you doing this valuable work as well. So you started as a barrister and now you specialize in women's fitness. Tell us the squiggly line that got you between those two things. It's so funny.

3:33I mean, it seems like a lifetime ago that I was a barrister. I kind of went back to back through school from A-level straight into uni, straight to bar school, straight into pupillage. So I was a barrister, I think at the age of 21, I was a baby and I was in court with all these people probably thinking, what is this child doing here? And I did that career until my second child was kind of a toddler. I went back after my first baby, went back after my second baby. I was experiencing the juggle. I was certainly finding it hard to balance the competing demands of being a mom and being a lawyer. You know, that classic thing of feeling like you're not really doing either of them particularly well.

4:26So I was already feeling sort of unfulfilled, really, and I was contemplating some sort of career change. Then the catalyst came when I was at my gym. I'd gone back to fitness after baby number two, and it was a circuits class, and the guy who was running the class had laid out skipping ropes as one of the stations. and as I went to that station and sort of started trying to skip it was something I hadn't done for many years so I was clumsy I was uncoordinated I actually wet myself during this skipping circuit station and it was really mortifying you know if you can imagine I was trying to make sure that nobody could see what had happened I was thinking how on earth am I going to do another two rounds of that?

5:18Should I say something? No, this instructor's like maybe 21. I can't really say anything. So I remember going home after this class and just, I was so confused as to what had happened. I thought, you know, I'm sort of back to where I was in terms of my fitness and my strength. So why has this happened to me? And bear in mind, this was 2016. So things have evolved and improved since then. But back then, I felt extremely lonely. I didn't know what I could do to get some help and support. And I guess it was a moment of epiphany for me because it made me realize how underserved women are by mainstream fitness.

6:03You know, if I'd got a sudden pain in my ankle during that skipping station, I would have said to the instructor, oh, my ankle's hurting, like what should I do but because it was a pelvic floor issue I kind of hushed it up went home and tried to figure it all out alone and I think that's an experience that a lot of women go through so that was the catalyst really and I started to think you know could I could I leave law and like start this new career so I started looking into that what it would entail and I signed on to a PT course, did that, kind of kept my hand in with law at the same time so I could have a sort of buffer in case personal training didn't work out.

6:48But actually, I haven't looked back. And this is now this really special second career, which I'm so grateful for. I think so many mothers have had that same experience. The amount of classes that I've been to postpartum, and I've not been asked, even are you postpartum? Have you had a pelvic floor check? Like, have you had your, I can't remember what it's called. What's the check where you put your fingers? Diastasis recti. That's right. I've never had that checked unless I'm in a specialist postpartum fitness class. So what did you, did you realize, okay, I need to go and get my pelvic floor checked.

7:26And can we go to our GP for that? Because it seems like it's still quite, you have to go private and, you know, even then you don't know kind of what to book. And it's still to me, and I work in this space, feels like a bit of a mystery. Yeah, the gold standard is going to be pelvic health physiotherapy. So there is a branch of physiotherapy that is dedicated to matters of pelvic floor health, just as if I had hurt my ankle skipping, I could have gone to see a musculoskeletal physio. For this issue, the right person to help me was a pelvic health physiotherapist, But I'd never heard of that. And it was only as I started my kind of online research mission that I found out about it.

8:11Your GP may be able to refer you, but it's one of those areas of health care where it's kind of a lot quicker if you can self-refer and pay privately. So that is one of the problems, because, of course, not everybody has the means to be able to do that. But that pelvic health physiotherapist will be able, with your consent, to examine your pelvic floor muscles, coach you on how to do isolated pelvic floor muscle squeezes, which is still the gold standard treatment for strengthening the muscles of the pelvic floor. They'll be able to check you for diastasis recti as well. And they'll be able to give you an individualized treatment plan.

8:52So for me, my thing is weightlifting. That's how I love to train. after my third baby I had a fantastic functional assessment with my physio who actually checked my pelvic floor muscles whilst I was squatting and dead lifting because of course life isn't done lying on your back on a kind of clinical plinth is it we need to kind of make sure that the way that we're assessing our patients is kind of reflective of their life and their training so So, you know, that was amazing for me to have that in 2019 after baby number three. And my return to exercise has been so smooth because I knew how to access that support and I could seek it out and I had the means to pay for it.

9:41And if you were Elizabeth now with the knowledge, the empowerment and the kind of, you know, what you know now and you were going to walk back into that circuits class, what would you say to that trainer? Would you be saying, I'm postpartum? Because I think this is so, so many mothers experience this. What would you be saying and what would you do if you had that experience again? Yeah. So approaching this now, if I saw a skipping rope, any new activity that you're returning to postpartum, this is something I go through with all my clients. We're looking to see, have we kind of done the groundwork to expose our body, our muscles, all of our tissues to the demands of that activity we're about to do?

10:29So it's never to say that any movement is bad or off limits. It's really saying, what is my readiness for that task? So looking at that circuit, I would have said, okay, skipping, that's an activity I haven't done for many years. it is going to require a lot of coordination for me to do that it's a high impact pretty high impact repetitive movement if I was doing that with a client for the first time I would start her off without the rope I would just get her doing some bounds on the spot so that we can see well can she manage that because if she leaks just doing the little bounds without the whole thing of trying to get the rope over and coordinate the jump, then we can start there and we can get that leak free.

11:20And then we can build from there. So again, maybe not so feasible in a mainstream fitness setting, right? Which is why I was kind of thinking, well, this is bonkers. Like, you know, there are so many of us having babies and returning to gyms and there's no conversation. Would I have the confidence now to say to the instructor, I'm postpartum, I've not done skipping in a while, can I maybe set out that station and then explore it in my own time? I like to think that I would but I don't know actually I don't know if things have evolved that far that I would feel comfortable in a mainstream gym to have that I still think we've probably got work to do and it is perhaps easier if it's the professional the person who is in the position of authority and power who invites that conversation and that's something I do as a coach because I recognize it might not be comfortable for them to volunteer information so I will always screen for this and on my form it will say you know if there's anything in the form that you don't feel comfortable writing we can chat in person and I will sort of say you know if during the session anything feels off if you ever experience any leaking or any sensation in your pelvic floor that doesn't feel right just tell me so I try and encourage this kind of relationship of openness no taboo no stigma so that then if somebody wants to share something with me they can and then that's the first step in me signposting them to another professional who will be able to support them.

13:14It's kind of wild that you can train as a PT and yet have no understanding about women's bodies postpartum. It's a while now since I did my training course, so I can't speak to the content. But I remember when I did mine, it was like two pages within a massive folder about special populations. And one of the special populations is postpartum clients. But also that instant in the gym, I was what, 18 months, maybe postpartum. So a lot of people are kind of thinking first six to eight weeks. I think a lot of people are thinking just by virtue of the passage of time, when you get to 18 months, you've got no business being postpartum.

14:05but actually that is flawed. Yes, kind of your activities of daily life are going to sort of expose you to certain things that are going to kind of maybe strengthen you and rebuild you after having a baby. But when it comes to something like running or skipping or heavy lifting, we've got to be progressive. We've got to be gradual. You find a starting point that meets where you are and you play the long game and you build up gradually. You know, that's what Couch to 5K is. It's a progressive walk to run program. So often I'll speak to someone who was a runner before having a baby and they want to get back to running and that's great.

14:46I support it. I applaud it. I think it's so good for mothers to be able to reconnect with the activities that make them feel like themselves. But they'll say something like, so I'm going to start running again and I'll just go for 20 minutes easy. And I'm like, well, that's great. But going from doing no running for the last 18 months to going to 20 minutes, even if you do it easy, is considerably more impact through your body, not just the pelvic floor muscles, all of the muscles and the tissues than you're accustomed to. So I always signpost people towards Couch to 5k because it's a walk to run program where you do a little bit of running and then a walk, a little bit of running and then a walk.

15:32And it's this whole thing of just being willing to take the time. There is no rush. So often the fitness industry makes it seem like there's an end point and there's a hurry. And actually there isn't. So what if it takes you 12 weeks to get back to running? Like it's 12 weeks. Just be patient with your body and take the time. And it doesn't need to be a rush. None of this needs to be a rush. If we're lucky, we've got a long life ahead of us to enjoy this journey. Yeah. And I think that's where the sort of the bounce back messaging really starts to come into play, isn't it? Where people are like, right, my baby's three months, my baby's six months, let's go, let's get my body back.

16:23And it's, I'm really curious to hear, I suspect that's where a lot of injuries come in. I suspect that's where a lot of people get their confidence really not like experiences like you had potentially. Do you see that with your clients and in your community? It's really hard, isn't it? I think if I compare to where I was body image wise with baby number one, who I had when I was 29, compared to baby number three, who I had when I was 35 and in my new career as a PT. I had done so much work on body image, body acceptance. I was in a much better place with baby number three, accepting that my body looked different, felt different, and that is completely okay.

17:05And yet, I still had the experience of seeing myself in photos and recoiling or trying on a pair of jeans where my belly would spill over and feeling like that was a failing. We are so conditioned to kind of regard fitness as an aesthetic and to feel like we're failing when we don't fit that aesthetic that I think it's a really vulnerable time for a lot of women, you know, and it's a chaotic time as well, isn't it? And I think it's so easy to think if I could just get back to looking like my old self, then I will feel like my old self as well. But I don't think you can train yourself into body acceptance or body neutrality.

18:01I think that comes from sort of working on your self-acceptance wherever you are in your life's journey. And then exercise should be something alongside that, that kind of looks after you, that is an act of self-care for your current and your future self, not something that you're turning to because you're desperate to change yourself or because you hate yourself. Because I think a lot of people will experience that their body does change and then they still feel some kind of lack of fulfillment or discontent. I would say if you're looking for some kind of bounce back, just pause for a moment and maybe explore how you're feeling.

18:55You know, is it about your lack of happiness in your body or is it about the fact that you maybe you feel a bit lonely, you feel a bit disconnected, you feel a bit unsupported, you don't have a clue what you're doing. I of course encourage everybody to maintain physical activity but the reality is if you are in those kind of early weeks, months, even early years of parenting small children, you have got so many drains on your resources, on your energy, your time. I just remember feeling broken Zoe like I have no embarrassment in saying that for the first two years two and a half years I would choose a nap over a workout every single time as soon as my kid went down for a nap I went down for a nap and it's a shame because we've got this kind of loud fitness culture saying when the baby's down this is your time for you this is your time to work out then with a bit of the gross body back messaging thrown in and actually maybe the best thing that you can do for yourself in that nap time is to sit down and rest if you've been up multiple times through the night recognizing that it is a long game and there will come a time when you can get more of yourself back again.

20:23This is, you know, a season or a series of seasons. And there will come a time that you can get more of yourself back and you won't feel so bone achingly tired. Yeah, I think it's so true. I wanted to ask about that because you're saying that there will come a time when, you know, you do have more time to exercise. But we know that the exercise gap, particularly between mothers and fathers is huge. And I think it's easy for us mothers to play that when they're in game, you know, when they go to nursery, when they start school, then I'll have the time. And what we know from the data is that that actually rarely happens.

21:01Tell us about that. Yeah. So I think it's hard for me to speak about barriers to fitness because of course, everybody's individual circumstances feed into those barriers, but you're right. One of the things that I see time and time again, particularly with mothers, is that we put ourselves to the bottom of the to-do list. So everything else is both more important and more urgent. And I think there is a time when that is justified. I think when I had a newborn baby I would put that baby's needs above my own pretty much every time if I needed the loo but the baby was asleep on me and I knew they needed that nap I would hold my bladder because I was putting their needs first they needed it if I was desperately thirsty but I was in the middle of breastfeeding, I would carry on with that feed because I knew that's what the baby needed.

22:10And I think there is a space for that. What I see though, is then mothers who are beyond that early phase, who are making sure their children have full water glasses whilst kind of dehydrated themselves, who are planning their children's meals while surviving on a leftover kind of chicken goujon. This is something that we need to recognize that our needs are important too and to find a way in the context of our own individual circumstances and challenges of honoring those needs as well. It is never going to feel urgent unless you have an appointment with a PT, for example, where, oh my gosh, it's nearly 10.30 and I'm meant to be at PT, or you've booked onto a gym class where the time is going to roll around and you're going to miss it if you don't go.

23:12There's not going to be the sense of urgency. What I don't want for women is for that sense of urgency to come from a health scare in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, when they are then on the back foot, when they fall and they fracture a bone, or they go for an annual checkup and they're told, actually, you know, your heart isn't in great health. And that's when it becomes urgent, but you're on the back foot. So I think that, you know there's a need isn't there for a little bit of kind of introspection and honesty and if you keep saying I'll do it when I'll do it when I'll do it when recognizing that you are kind of kicking the can down the road and you need to start but tied in with that I think another problem of the fitness industry is it kind of like breeds this image of perfection whether that's in the aesthetic of the bodies that we see the outfits that they're wearing when we see them or it's in this idea that kind of consistency is achievable at all times and in all seasons what I think is more important than consistency don't get me wrong consistency is super important is recognizing in motherhood you are going to get thrown off you are going to get thrown off because when you have a little person or little people who are dependent on you your opportunity for curveballs just goes through the roof.

24:59And if we have an idea in mind that consistency is so important that as soon as there's going to be a curveball, we've kind of failed, that's going to be a barrier. So what's more important than consistency is saying, do you know what, I'm going to try and do this two times a week or three times a week. But I recognize there are going to be weeks where I get thrown off. Maybe I'll manage one. Maybe I won't manage any if we're all down with norovirus, but that's okay. Those times are going to happen. And I know that as soon as things are kind of less crisis mode, I will get back to it because otherwise you're never, you're never going to start.

25:47You're never going to start. You know, if you think about September, which is the time when a lot of people are feeling motivated. I know September is when my kids get ill. They go to school, they mix with kids they haven't seen for the summer, they come back with colds, coughs, sore throats, tummy bugs, you know, they sneeze directly in mommy's face, and then mommy gets cold, cough, sore throat, tummy bug. So I always think, make your plan, make your realistic plan. Don't make an ideal world plan because let's be honest, the world is not ideal. So make a plan that you think you could adhere to even in a tricky week, you know, that has a bit of leeway, that has a bit of slack.

26:38Don't necessarily go in thinking I am going to train six days out of seven or five days out of seven, you know, why not start with two days out of seven? And that way, you've got some flexibility, haven't you? Because if you're planning a session on Monday, but you get the call of doom from school and your little one's off Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you've still got Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday to play with. You can still feel like you are smashing your plan. Allow yourself some wiggle room because you can always add more, but it can feel really hard when you feel like you've failed at your plan.

27:18And it wasn't that you failed at your plan. It was that your plan failed you because it was unrealistic for the demands that you're juggling. It's so true. And it's really hard. I've had clients say to me before, but that's just pointless. Like what's the point of twice a week? I used to do seven days a week or it's just that mindset shift, isn't it? That is so important. And I think I loved what you were saying about when you have those curve balls, which inevitably are going to come, it's about, okay, we go again. Whereas what I see is it's so easy to then go, see, I can't do it. I failed. What's the point of trying?

27:55We just give up all together. And I think what you're saying is so important, which is just to keep it simple, keep it easy to start with and then build up from there. Yeah, that's it. And I know that that is not as sexy as a, you know, a kind of six day a week transform your body. But this is a long game if we're lucky. And what you touched on there about that tendency to compare to, well, I used to go to the gym six days a week. So what's the point in two? That is, again, one of those moments where we need to maybe do a little bit of self-reflection and introspection because maybe you did used to do that, but things were a bit different then.

28:43Maybe in those days, you also used to sleep 10 hours at night and read the paper with a relaxed morning coffee and shower every day. And now things are different. So why is it that we can kind of selectively ignore those differences? We hold ourselves to these standards of the old version of us when actually so much has changed around us. And the thing is, you may get back to those six sessions a week in due course if that's what you want to do. But just give yourself the time. Give yourself the time. There's no rush. Play the long game. Slow and steady. Keep it realistic.

29:33and if someone does have this someone would be me two times a week to work out what is there something I know you talk brilliantly about kind of investing in our old lady body and if I'm honest this is what motivates me I have really good relationship with my body so it's not for me about an aesthetic. It's all about, I just want to be a super active, fun grandma. That is my goal. Like that is my absolute goal. And I, and I want to be active and just hopefully be the grandkids for as long as I possibly can. And I know that that starts now. I don't want it to start now because it's kind of annoying.

30:16It's like an investment plan, isn't it? It's like I'm putting into this pot and I'm not going to, I mean, I will see some benefits, but you talked about lifting weights, is that one of the best things that we can do for investing in the longevity of our kind of fitness and vitality? Resistance training is super important. And there is so much evidence about the benefit of resistance training. So when we talk about lifting weights, lifting weights is resistance training. What I want to be really clear is that resistance training, that resistance it's when we're working our muscles against external resistance that resistance can come from weights and weights are a super convenient piece of kit to ensure that we can increase the challenge progressively over time because our bodies are super clever they adapt to the demands we do or don't place on them so with a weight you know when the three kilo weight feels too easy you can progress to the four kilo when that's too easy you can press to the five kilos.

31:18So weights are super handy, but you can also train against the resistance of your body. And actually for a beginner, that might be enough. Doing squats just with your body might be enough. You know, a pushup is an example of a resistance exercise where you are working against the resistance of your body. Doesn't include any weights, super challenging. We can make it easier by taking our hands off the floor. We can make it harder by putting a weight plate or a dumbbell on our backs. So it's when we talk about lifting weights, we're actually talking about resistance training. That resistance can come from gym machines.

31:58They're super brilliant if you're a beginner to build confidence, body weight, resistance bands to a point. Really, really important because as we age, we are losing strength. We are losing muscle. We are losing power and resistance training ticks a lot of boxes in terms of maintaining or building muscle, maintaining or building strength, and then the power piece as well. Once we've got that baseline of strength, we can start expressing our strength with speed. That's power. Okay. So how quickly can I get out of the bottom of the squat with a weight? You know, speed times strength is power. And that's something that diminishes even faster than strength as we age.

32:45Power is really important and often overlooked because if you think about risk of falls, we want to be able to quickly correct and get ourselves back. We need to be quick. We need everything to be firing. So power training can be really fun once you've got the foundation of strength. But also, and I worry this is getting forgotten a little bit these days because, and you know, I'm this woman lifts, so I love a bit of strength talk. But I worry sometimes that cardio is getting forgotten. I see online that people are pitching themselves as like team strength or team cardio, which I think is absolute madness because my old lady body is going to want a strong, healthy heart as well.