You can feel body confident this summer: here’s how, with Alex Light

0:07Welcome to Motherkind. We are proudly sponsored by Wild Nutrition Women Supplements. I am your host Zoe Blaski and this is the show that is going to grab you by the hand and be your guide to the wild ride that is modern motherhood. Every week I bring you a world-leaving expert or thinker to give us new ideas, new tools, new support, new inspiration for our lives as mothers. We spend everything here from work to relationships to mental health to healing and parenting and I am very happy that you are here. okay tell me if this resonates you're excited about the summer your holiday or a beach day or barbecue with friends and then that awful voice starts your legs are too big to wear those shorts you can't wear a bikini everyone will laugh or your arms are too wobbly for that vest top those awful untrue thoughts that let's face it can really get in the way of you experiencing all the joy that you deserve this summer.

1:05And that's what I want for you to have as much joy and fun as possible this summer. So I have brought on one of the best body confidence experts I know. Her name is Alex Light. She is a Sunday Times bestselling author of You Are Not a Before Picture and she co-hosts an amazing podcast with Emily Clarkson called Should I Delete That? And trust me when I say that this is the conversation you need to hear today because if you're ready to finally feel more peace with your body this summer, then this conversation is going to teach you exactly how to do that. We also talk about Alex's experience of matrescence.

1:44And if you only hear the first 10 minutes of this conversation, it is going to have a profound impact on you because of Alex's honesty and her beautiful description of what matrescence has been like for her. I know you're going to love this episode. If you do, please share it. Let's spread this positivity, this validation, this compassion in a world of so much judgment on us mothers. Let's be those women lifting other women up and spreading messages like these. So please do copy the link, pop it in your WhatsApp group, share it on email, tell a mum at the school or nursery gates about it. This podcast has only grown because of you, my community, my listeners.

2:25I'm so grateful you are here, here is the episode.

2:33I'd like to take this moment to thank our headline sponsor, Wild Nutrition, who are offering MotherKind listeners 50 % off for the first three months. When I was pregnant with my first 10 years ago, I asked a few nutritionist friends, what's the best pregnancy supplement? And they all said the same thing, Wild Nutrition. So I listened and these incredible supplements have kept me feeling great through two pregnancies, starting this podcast, writing a book, a relocation and everything in between for the last decade. So it's magical to me that I now get to tell you about this incredible woman founded brand every week.

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3:46Just go to wildnutrition.com forward slash motherkind to get started. That's wildnutrition.com forward slash motherkind so you can feel the difference yourselves. Start 2026 rooted in wellness. T's and C's apply. Craig's never shown an interest in beekeeping before, but that's the sound of him buying 2000 worker bees rather than doing his self-assessment. Craig, you live in a sixth floor flat. The deadline is 31st of January. Less distraction, more action. Don't be like Craig. Visit gov.uk forward slash self-assessment today. Payment support may be available. Alex, I am so excited to chat to you.

4:25I was thinking about the summer and here I am looking half naked and body image. And I was thinking, who do I want to speak to about this? Who is just going to give me and the Mother Kind community just that boost of kind of confidence and acceptance that we need coming into July? And I thought straight away of you. So I'm so excited. Thank you for coming on. Oh, well, thank you so much for having me. Honestly, I'm delighted to be here. and your account has been amazing for me since having a baby. So I am delighted to join you. Well, let's start there. You know, I talk a lot about matrescence, which is the transformation and the process that we go through when we become other.

5:01What's your matrescence been like? Yeah, you taught me that word, matrescence, and it took me a while to be able to say it. I was always like mattress, mattress. My experience, oh my God, this is such a big question. Do you know what? I was thinking about this before and I was trying to put into words how I feel about having a baby and I don't know if this sounds dramatic but this is how it feels is that having a baby like cracked me wide open like okay also physically but like mentally emotionally everything like I felt like I was like cracked wide open and it's only been 18 months he's only 18 months old but I feel like since then I've been kind of slowly putting the pieces back together ever since does that make sense yeah or does it sound dramatic no that's absolutely my experience and that is actually the process of matrescence that is what it feels like it feels like I use this analogy of a jigsaw puzzle it feels like you have this sort of picture of your life and then every piece your sense of self, your relationship, your body, your friendships, your work, your time, your stress, your nervous system, all of it gets thrown up in the air.

6:15Literally, that's how it felt to me. Yeah. I think it takes between five and seven years, to be honest with you, to kind of piece those pieces of that jigsaw puzzle back together. And of course, it's always changing. So I feel like, yeah, thank you for your honesty. That was absolutely my experience. Five to seven years is crazy isn't it because I see a lot of people on Instagram and you know who had babies the same around the same time as me saying that you know they've got their pink back and I'm like I just feel very far away from that I don't feel like that yet I feel like it's going to take me a still more time I was the same I was the same took me five years yeah to really feel that sort of okay like here we go it really it really did take me a long time and I think so much you know so much impacts how long it takes you.

7:06No two women's matricence is the same. It's really nice to hear that actually. It's really nice to hear that it took you a long time because I think that will be my experience as well. And it's just, it's nice to know that there's no like, like race back, which is what I keep having to remind myself. There's no race back to the old me because I don't think there actually even is an old me really anymore. I just need to like sort of find the new me. That's right. And I feel like for me, I'd be interested to hear your perspective of this is that the more that your matrescence is going to change you, the longer it does take.

7:39I think that's an incredible thing because I've really allowed it to change me a lot. I've allowed it to bring up loads of stuff that I needed to look at. I've allowed it to change my work. I've allowed it to change so much. And I think that's why it takes some of us longer because we're really kind of embracing the opportunity to, yeah, change a lot and challenge a lot and question ourselves and question everything, which is what it did to me. I was like, oh my God. So yeah, I think it does take longer. Yeah. That's such a good point because your work now is all around motherhood, right? Which wasn't before.

8:16No, I was in a corporate job, like with a suit on. It's a huge change. Can I ask you with the work that you've done, Have you had any like research or data on whether women who have children older experience a more intense matricence or it's like it's a harder process or is it the other way around? Is it kind of easier? Have you noticed any correlation? no research but I would say it's such a good question and I'd say there's two things yes what I've noticed in the kind of conversations that I've had and speaking to the community a lot is that the more kind of established your jigsaw puzzle is as in this is who I am these are my friends this is where I live this is how I do work the harder it is when it does get thrown up in the air and you have to put it back together and I think that does correlate with having a baby later because you've got a really established way of doing things, isn't it?

9:08It's like people that get married in their fifties and sixties. They say it's much harder because I'm sort of, I'm so fixed in my ways. The other pattern that I see very clearly and very strongly is that if you are a high achiever, which you are, if you are someone who's quite high functioning, maybe who likes to control and has kind of been quite organized in their life and kind of on it and you know ambitious 100 % matrescence is harder 100 % I mean that tracks because I'm I like to be in control I like to be organized and motherhood doesn't allow for that necessarily motherhood does not allow for that so not only are you trying to figure out you know all of the parenting and all of that you're also trying to figure out a new way to actually operate it's almost like for me I needed a new operating system because I couldn't I was that sort of person where it was like study get good grades you know work hard get promoted it was all quite linear input equals output and then the baby and parenting does not the equation breaks because you can study your way to understand baby sleep but it ain't mean your baby's gonna sleep that night exactly god knows i tried same same so suddenly i was like oh okay i'm gonna have to learned some new skills here that involve surrendering, that involve letting people down, that involve setting boundaries, that involve managing my energy better.

10:37Because I also used to work to burnout and then I would rest every weekend. That was kind of my work pattern. And you can't do that. You have to find, this is why I think it takes some of us longer because we're not only grappling with the transition to motherhood, we're also learning like a new a new operating system really of how we're going to manage every element that is so interesting I feel sorry I feel like I'm using this as therapy but like this is blowing my mind because like I am exactly the same like I've always like I've always thrived on routine and I had a very set routine I mean I asked about uh being old I mean I was I'm not you know I had him when I was 35 so not like older older mom but you know it's older than the average right but also I really thrived on routine.

11:22I had a very set routine. I was in control of everything and very organized. And I would reply to every WhatsApp every night. I would never leave a WhatsApp unread, you know, things like this. I would get back to everyone all the time. I think a proper people pleaser as well. And it just turns all of that on its head, doesn't it? And I feel like I'm still figuring that out because my workload hasn't changed since before having a baby hasn't changed so I feel like I'm almost kind of like burning myself out I'm trying to work around him so the moment he goes down I'll work any opportunity I have I'll just I'm trying to work when really I don't think I can actually carry on like that because it's just I mean parenting is so hard isn't it especially at this age and he's like throwing himself headfirst into danger but yeah no this is all so so interesting and something that I haven't really explored because there's no really avenue to do so no I mean a lot of it this is kind of what I'm you know a lot of it is in the book um yeah but this that's what I tried to do is that whole the moment that I'm not parenting I was working and I did I did burn out doing that because the thing that I stopped doing was tending to my needs like even basic ones yeah and so yeah I burn out really quickly.

12:39But what it means is that it's scary because you have to kind of reorganize how you work. And that's really difficult, particularly like for you and I, you know, we're public facing and, you know, we work for ourselves. And if we don't work, we don't get paid. You know, it's difficult. It's really difficult. But there are absolutely ways that involve, you know, lots of boundaries, lots of focus and yeah, really understanding. It's really shifted for me, like really understanding what are the needle movers as opposed to just being busy. Like actually what are the things that in this hour that I've got that are actually going to move something forward towards a goal, as opposed to just replying to 30 emails, which is just what other people want from me anyway.

13:23Like I don't do that anymore. I rarely reply to emails to be honest. I'm terrible on email and WhatsApp because I just have to be, it's the only way that I can, you know, do what I need to do, look after myself and the kids. Yeah, totally makes sense. And I do hope to get there and sort of set more boundaries because I think you just have to, something's got to give. That's what my husband said to me the night. He said like, something has to give. You can't keep going like this because you just will burn out. Anyway, sorry, this is like therapy. No, it's so useful and it's going to be so useful for people to hear because almost everyone listening will be relating to what you and I are saying.

14:01Yeah. Well, there's people with multiple children who still, you know, have to work a demanding job. I don't know how they do it. My God, I would be beside myself. Yeah. And I feel like that's why, you know, the burnout statistics around mothers are as high as they are. Because it is virtually impossible. It really is. It feels like an impossible bind. Oh, my gosh. I've loved hearing your experience of matrescence. And yeah, I think just that cracked open is exactly how so many people feel. Tell me about your relationship with your body, which is, you know, your area of expertise. And I've read that you were so surprised that you thought you'd sort of have a handle on it because of, you know, you've written a book about this.

14:46You know, you've done a lot of work. And yet, you know, still you really struggled with your postpartum body confidence. So tell us about that. Oh, my God. I mean, pregnancy, postpartum, motherhood and body image is such a, I don't know if I'm allowed to swear. Yeah. It's such a mind bug. I don't have another word for it because it is the wildest ride and the biggest emotional roller coaster because there is such a shift and postpartum is such a contrast to pregnancy. because when it comes to body image and when you're pregnant, everyone's like just in awe of this body, you're creating life and isn't that incredible?

15:31And look how you're growing and you're growing this human. And you feel that like I felt for the first time in my life that I was being praised for my body getting bigger, which hadn't happened before. And that felt almost intoxicating to me because I was like, this is, this is magical. Like my body's getting bigger and I feel like I'm being accepted for it and I'm being validated for it. I didn't even realize at the time that that thought process was happening, but it was. And then the moment that that baby is out of your body, literally the moment, suddenly there is nothing miraculous about that body to society.

16:07And it's actually quite the opposite. It's often met with like silence or judgment or subtle and sometimes not so subtle pressure to bounce back and get yourself right back to the body that you had and all of that evidence of the body of the life that you grew and what your body just did the stretch marks and the new softness and you know my my hips grew and my and my boobs were huge even though I didn't it didn't I never got any milk I never even got any milk so I'm like why are my boobs suddenly enormous but they were and my my tummy as well and you know I had a c section and I have that you know little shelf over the c-section scar and all of that all of that evidence of what your body has done is suddenly it's not celebrated but it's treated as something to be fixed and that shift from pregnancy to postpartum is so jarring and at a time anyway when you're so vulnerable like we talked about your identity you're in an identity crisis totally because everything you thought that you were before is suddenly like you said thrown up in the air and you're confused you don't recognize yourself in the mirror and then you also have the outside sort of judgment to contend with as well and I found that all quite loud it was all on you know it was social media was targeting me it knew that I'd just had a baby and I was being targeted with all these ads and all these transformation videos and nine months in and nine months out and look at me now.

17:37And I was like, I was feeling like, it's just not my experience at all. And I think actually, initially I was the first probably few months when you're in that absolute haze. And I was just, I was so incredibly anxious and so focused on this little thing that I didn't have the space for anything else. But when that fog was lifting and I was thinking about reentering society again and, you know, wearing something other than my leggings and a big baggy jumper and I realized how much my body had changed. And I thought, I was going to say, I think, but that's not true. I thought at the time that I had an unusual experience because my body didn't just change because of pregnancy.

18:19My body changed after pregnancy because of sleep deprivation and hormones. And I craved sugar so badly. Like it was an intense craving to me. I allowed my body to have that, what it was craving because that's exactly what it needed. at the time. So my body changed postpartum and after pregnancy. And I feel like there was a sort of quiet disappointment maybe from, you know, some people, not my husband, but, you know, other people around me who, you know, that I'd sort of, and I'm putting this in enormous air quotes, I'd let myself go, so to speak, you know, when it was supposed to be pregnancy, the change of body, not postpartum, postpartum, you're supposed to shift the weight.

19:03And I remember talking about this on Instagram and I was just inundated with people saying I had exactly the same experience. Some women saying that breastfeeding, you know, breastfeeding is apparently supposed to, you're supposed to drop weight drastically. But for so many people, they put on weight while they were breastfeeding, you know, it's their body holding onto fuel stores and craving food. So that was my experience and I found it really difficult. And I kind of thought before, I think I've probably been a bit cocky and been like, I've done so much work on body image. This is my bread and butter.

19:36It's my day in, day out. I've written a book. I've had years of therapy, you know, because my history is with eating disorders. I had eating disorders for decades. So I kind of thought that I'd nailed it. I laugh at now. And I just hadn't, it just threw me an absolute curveball because it was a situation that I'd never been in. And I had to relearn how to make peace with my body, which was now a new body. How did you do that? So I think that even though I was not immune to body image pressures, like I thought I was going to be, I wasn't. But what I was lucky to have was a toolbox because of these years of therapy.

20:20And because of how much I've been through with my body, I knew how to do it. So it was quicker than it was the first time. And I think I just kept in mind the whole time that this right now and always is the least important thing about my life. It is the least. I have this beautiful little baby who I love fiercely, who I am so in love with. and my body made that. And I think we hear that a lot. Oh, you know, like love your body after pregnancy, because isn't it amazing that it created life. And I think we hear that so much that it doesn't tend to go in anymore. But if you think about it, it's unbelievable.

21:07It's crazy what the human body does, the woman's body does to, to make and grow this baby and then deliver it out into the world. And how could I, why would I want to erase all traces of that? That experience of pregnancy and giving birth, well, I had a C-section, so I don't know how you call it, but you know, of having the baby, that experience is integrated into my physical body forever. And I want it to be, I don't want to get rid of that. I don't want to raise all the signs of being pregnant and having a baby that's precious to me it's very special proof and evidence of what we both went through and I think that's a really cool thing and I want to I want to hold on to that I don't want to try and get rid of that just because society tells me that I need to like fit into my old jeans or look the way I did before I'm not my body will never look the way it did before.

22:07And I don't need it to. I don't need it to. That's not the most important thing in my life right now. It's not an important thing at all in my life right now. The important things to me are my family and my values and my morals and my connections to the people in my life. That's what's important, not what my body looks like.

22:35it's just so true what you said about knowing something intellectually and being able to really embody it is really different someone once said something so wise to me and they said the greatest distance you'll ever travel in your life is between your head and your heart and I did not get it someone said it when I was about 23 and I was like what now I'm like I totally get it because you can know something like my body is amazing and it created life and I will not shame it you know you can know that intellectually I think most of us get there but actually making that distance then into your heart where you can really believe that embody it is totally different ball game isn't it it's so different because it also has to travel through all of the conditioning that we've been subject to and we have to unpick that and we do have to unpick that because it's been loud and it's been intense and it's been coming at us since we were literally since we were babies our parents generation they you know weren't the other thing they're the first to admit they weren't the best around body image and we soaked all of that up and then you know especially I think there's new research out now I think it's dove that have got new research to show that millennial women have the worst the lowest body image of all the generations and I think it's because it's a mix of what we experience with our through our parents that intergenerational dieting trauma and all of the media that we were subject to that was so blatant and so explicit it all of that has shaped our beliefs around our body so yes we can know that like I should love my body and I should respect and appreciate it for what it's done but actually making yourself feel that like you said traveling that distance to your heart there are obstacles we have to get over that conditioning which is really tough so I think for anyone listening that is is struggling to do that even though they know logically and rationally all of the good stuff I think they really have to have compassion for themselves if they're not able to feel it and put it into practice.

24:43Compassion to know that there's a reason that they feel like that. There's a huge reason, but that also it's possible. And I think the more we chip away, even if it's the tiniest, tiniest chips, like the more chips we make, ultimately one day that is going to add up to proper tangible progress that we can feel and we can start to make real changes with how we feel about our body. Yeah, you're so right. Because it's those subconscious beliefs that actually, a lot of those we get framed before we're seven years old. That's when those beliefs get set in us. So if we don't do that work of then unraveling that, and they sit out of our awareness, this is what I've learned.

25:26Whenever I take on, something comes up, I'll grab a piece of paper and I'll be like, what do I believe about this? And what comes out is wild. I'm like, I had no idea I believed that but it's because it all sits in that subconscious part of our brain which actually is operating our thoughts and therefore our actions about 95 % of the time so I love that you you're saying to start there because my gosh yes I'm an older millennial and what we absorbed was next level it was all about diet culture it was all about low fat I remember we just grew up on low fat fat free my mom my mom was obsessed with it bless her heart and yeah and the celebrities we were watching the shows those reality shows um who was it nicole and paris the simple life that's right i used to watch that and i look back now and they were they were skeletons well nicole ritchie was the the fat one i'm saying this in air quotes she was the fat one she was considered like parents Paris Hilton's like fat friend fat best friend and there is an interview with her from that time and a report she's on a red carpet and a reporter's asking her so like do you worry that your size like affects your work and like you know what kind of jobs you're going to get in Hollywood and Nicole Richie was tiny there was nothing of her she just had a different body type to Paris Hilton but like what scares me is back then I believed all of that I don't know if you remember Jessica Simpson when she I think she'd been away for a while I think she'd had children and then she came back to do a concert and she was wearing like high waist flares and a black spaghetti top do you remember that and everyone was like oh my god she was called like jumbo Jessica people were like what is she like she's let herself go she used to be so gorgeous and you look at those and I at the time I was like oh my god yeah yeah god she she is big so big now and I look at the photos now and it's like there was nothing of her it's just like a very slim normal woman but that's how brainwashed that we were so yeah it's so important for us to remember this that we were absorbing all of that and I put it in my book actually because I saw this clip of was it posh spice Victoria Beckham getting weighed yeah live on tv and at the time I didn't think anything of it.

27:56I know. But now you realize, and that all goes in, even though we're like, no, I can see how wrong that is, but that does all go in and starts to impact how we feel about our bodies, particularly when we're in that vulnerable age, you know, in our adolescence then, another time of youth transformation and rewiring of the brain, you know, we were taking all that in. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. It informs everything and we have to remember that and like give ourselves so much grace and compassion. So where are you at now? 18 months into your matrescence, what is your relationship like with your, with your body now?

28:33You know what? I think it's pretty good. I think it's pretty good. Like I'm a dress size bigger than I was before I was pregnant. So I've managed kind of gradually to like upgrade or not upgrade, but like, you know, get a wardrobe that actually fits me and like bit by bit start to replace the old clothes that don't fit me anymore with new clothes. And Vinted has been amazing for that, actually. Really amazing for that. I'm just feeling really at peace with it, which feels really cool. That was so cool because, because, you know, you're also modeling that. And I think that's something that particularly as a girl, mom, I've got two girls.

29:15That's something that I think about all the time. Yeah. Is what am I being role modeled? Because that is actually going to be their biggest influence on body image. It's going to be how I am about my body. You know, I thought a lot about this when we didn't know what we were having until he was born, which now I'm like, I don't know how I did that. That was crazy that I didn't know for that long. Um, but I thought about that a lot and really deeply about what, you know, I've had such a checkered past with my body and with my eating habits. I've been to some real lows with it. And I do not want that for my kids.

29:55I do not want that for my boy or girl, you know? And I think that's what I had to remind myself as well, because I was like, well, if it's a girl, I'm going to have to be so careful and so strict and pay so much attention to how I behave around food in my body. And then I was like, if I have a boy, I need to do that too. It's just as important. I mean, not just for him and his relationship with his body, but for how he treats the girls and women in his life and their bodies and their relationship with their bodies. It's just as important. Like our girls and our boys need to grow up in really neutral environments around their bodies.

30:34I strongly, strongly believe that. What was the conversation when you were growing up around diet culture, body image? What did you get role modeled? It wasn't great. And I think my parents would be the first to admit that they were, you know, from a gen, I mean, ultimately, and we're open with this discussion, but ultimately they were products of their own environment, just like their parents were as well. And I think we have to be, at least for me, it feels really important to be compassionate about that and understand that nothing they did or were doing came from a place of malice. They just didn't know any better.

31:14They only knew what they knew at the time. So it was quite a, it was a difficult environment in terms of diet culture and body image. And I definitely learned a lot of unhealthy habits and probably unhealthy ways to think and speak about my body, which has taken a lot of learning and a lot of unpicking. And I think it's still present and apparent in my sister's relationship. I've got four sisters, there's five of us. So it's still quite apparent in their relationships with their bodies now. So it's a really tricky one, but I have primarily have compassion for them and just know that I I want to break the cycle and I want my sisters to break the cycle too, because I just, I don't want, I mean, not even just my kids, our kids.

32:07Like I just don't think any child should have to grow up thinking that the most important thing about them is their body and how they look and how small they are and taught to, well, taught that smaller is more worthy and that our goal in life, especially as women, that our goal is to just take up as little space as possible. It's a sad, it makes for a sad existence. And I just think that no child should feel like that. They should grow up, if not loving their bodies, but just respecting them deeply and caring for them and allowing themselves to live a life without being impacted by how they look.

32:48I think that's the goal is, which is essentially body neutrality. And I think that's the goal. I don't think we have to teach them to be in love with their bodies and love every single thing about them I don't think we have to teach them that necessarily I think we can teach them I mean it's great if they do love their bodies that's absolutely brilliant but I think the goal should always be for the body and how they look to be more of a neutral aspect of their lives yeah and I love that you talk about that word respectable like that's definitely where I'm coming at it with my girls it's like we don't have to as you say I'm not going around going oh my god I love myself it's more like I just really respect my body that's why mommy does this that's why I do this that's why when I'm hungry I eat that's why that's what I want my girls to do because I think that filters down if you respect your body that filters down to the partners you choose how much casual sex you have or don't have and how you engage in that you know I got a lot of that wrong I feel like it just it really filters across so many things if you can respect and yeah like tend to care for your vessel it really sets you up it really does set you up yeah I kind of hadn't played it further down the line into those you know talking about like yeah respecting your body in that sense as well but everything will stem from it yeah it really does and so if someone's listening and there thinking, you know, so many of our community don't want to get into a bikini this summer.