Playing with Fire (PODCAST EXCLUSIVE EPISODE)

0:00In today's episode, I'm going to tell you two stories. In the first story, it's ultimately about this person who is so set on making a change in their lives that they take drastic measures to affect that change, with some very unfortunate consequences. The second story is about this town in California where there was this perceived threat, and it was sort of normalized and people were not that worried about it until it totally spiraled out of control. But before we get into today's stories, if you're a fan of the strange, dark, and mysterious delivered in story format, then you've come to the right place because that's all we do, and we upload two, three, even four times every week.

0:41So if that's of interest to you, please sneak into the Follow Button's house and write on their bathroom mirror, I'm watching you in red lipstick. Okay, let's get into our first story, which is called The Tip-Off.

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1:53And if they can't repair the covered item, they'll replace it. Plus, as a benefit to select plans, you can video chat with a live repair expert. American Home Shield. Don't worry, be warranty. Get 20 % off any plan at ahs.com slash Mr. Ballin and see promo details. See ahs.com slash contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations, and exclusions. Early in the morning on February 5th, 1990, 57-year-old Laverne Pavlinok stood in the kitchen of her Wilsonville, Oregon apartment making some coffee. Mornings were the best part of Laverne's day because she had the whole apartment to herself.

2:33Now, she lived with her boyfriend, John Sosnovsky, but he worked at a nearby mill and had to be out early in order to catch the bus there. And each time he left, Laverne felt like a huge weight lifted off of her. Because when John wasn't home, Laverne could go about her day and pretend she was safe. But that's all it was. It was pretend. John, in reality, was an incredibly violent man. I mean, he was seriously physically abusive, especially when he was drunk, which was basically all the time. So Laverne had actually been married, but her husband had died of cancer, and she had ultimately met John following her husband's death.

3:11And so when they met, Laverne was very vulnerable and lonely, and she really hadn't realized the kind of person John was until it was too late. It had been 10 years now and Laverne still had not built up the courage to leave him. I mean, the reality was she was just scared of how he would react and so she sort of felt trapped. Now she sat down at her kitchen table with her coffee and she opened up the local paper. And as soon as she did, the first thing she saw was a big black and white photo of a smiling young woman who likely was in her 20s. The photo was connected to an article about a recent murder that happened 30 miles away, just northeast of Portland.

3:48The victim had been identified as a woman named Tanya Bennett, and Tanya Bennett was the girl in the photo. The article said she had been beaten and then also strangled with a robe, and then she had been left on the side of the highway. And when Laverne read about the area she actually had been, you know, dumped, she realized it actually was only about a mile and a half down from this famous scenic overlook that Laverne had actually been to before, Like she was familiar with this area. And so Laverne, she's reading the article and she's looking at this picture back and forth. And it was like something was sort of forming in her mind.

4:23She just had like this weird sense that she knew something about this case. And then as she stared at this photo for a little bit longer, it's like it all came together. And she realized almost certainly that she knew John very likely killed this woman. And so even though she loved her peaceful, quiet mornings with her coffee, Laverne immediately stood up, she grabbed the phone, and she called the police. After she hung up with police, Laverne was very shaken up. I mean, her heart was still racing. I mean, this was a very risky thing she was doing because she had no way of knowing if what she had just given authorities was enough to arrest John.

5:03If it wasn't, it was entirely possible that John would discover this betrayal of her calling the police about him implicating him in a murder, and he would probably just continue his abuse, if not amp up his abuse of Laverne. And so the way she saw it is either what she just did was going to end the chapter with John and he was going to go to jail for murder, or Laverne might wind up being the next dead girl on the side of the highway. A little over a week later, on the morning of February 16th, Detective John Ingram sat with his partner in a very clean living room in Wilsonville, Oregon. Ingram was the lead investigator on Tonya Bennett's murder case, and he was there to speak to Laverne, who was sitting on the opposite couch.

5:47And Laverne seemed really nervous and kept fidgeting constantly and offering Ingram and his partner refreshments. It was just very clear that there was a lot on this woman's mind. So Ingram knew that Laverne had a week earlier called in a tip about the victim's killer. She thought it was her own boyfriend, John Sosnovsky. And right now, Ingram was very eager to hear what she had to say about her boyfriend, to basically elaborate and sort of give the full story of why she believed what she believed, in part because Ingram's case so far had absolutely no other leads, like this was it. The victim's body had been found on a grassy slope so close to the edge of the highway that you could see her from the road.

6:29But Ingram and his partner had not been able to find any witnesses. A few people had claimed to have seen Tanya along with some man at a bar earlier in the night before she went missing, but no one had been able to effectively describe that man. It was just some guy she was with. And so Ingram and his partner had basically talked to just about anyone they could think of that might have known Tanya. They'd canvassed her neighborhood, they'd interviewed her family, co-workers, friends, and they still had not been able to find anybody who fit as a suspect. They also hadn't found any good physical evidence at the scene, like fingerprints or helpful forensics.

7:04So now, Ingram was hoping that Laverne was going to be the key to his whole case. And so, eventually, Ingram looked at Laverne and said, Whenever you're ready, tell me what you know. Tell me the story of why you believe John killed Tanya. Now, at first, Laverne just continued to squirm in her seat, and she was, you know, obviously very nervous. But eventually, after Ingram told her to just, you know, take a breath, calm down, it's okay. We just want to hear your story. Eventually, with a shaking voice, she told them that on the night of the murder, John had come home around maybe one or two in the morning and immediately got in the shower.

7:40Now, this was unusual. I mean, this is not something that he typically did. He didn't shower at two in the morning, but Laverne really hadn't thought much of it until the next day when they went to a local bar and she'd literally overheard John bragging to somebody about murdering Tanya, describing how he had picked her up at a truck stop, killed her, then took her to the highway by Columbia River Gorge to dump her body by the scenic overlook. As Laverne spoke, I mean, Ingram and his partner were shocked. I mean, basically, Laverne had overheard effectively a confession, and the details of that confession did seem to line up with what they had heard so far.

8:17Tanya had been seen out late at night with some man, although nobody could really describe the man, and also where her body was found. It was near the scenic overlook, something that was publicly known, but still, that's what Laverne heard John say. It lined up. But he kept a poker face and just told Laverne to please keep going, keep elaborating. And so Laverne, she continued speaking, and she went on to say that the reason she didn't come forward right away was because she was scared of John. He was a violent alcoholic who abused her, which is also part of the reason why this seemed real to her.

8:52I mean, she was totally not shocked at the idea that maybe John killed someone, but she was basically fearful that he might kill her too. And so she had kept it to herself until she had seen the article in the paper and also saw the picture of the girl. And she just looked so young and innocent and she just couldn't help but feel like she owed it to that girl to come forward. Now, at this point, Ingram's mind was whirling. I mean, if this was all true, So it was huge for this case. I mean, potentially, this just solved the whole murder. I mean, this is what happened potentially. But he also knew, you know, right now, it was just one woman's story.

9:28You know, he needed actual proof. He couldn't just take Laverne's word for it. So he asked Laverne if he and his partner could just go ahead and search the apartment. And as soon as Laverne nodded, the detectives jumped to their feet and got to work. Laverne led the detectives down the hallway to the master bedroom. and then from there she backed off and just, you know, let the men get to work. And the detectives, they immediately split up and spread out to cover more ground. Ingram had actually brought along a list of stuff that they were theoretically looking for. And one of the things on his list was a swatch of denim from the front buttons of Tanya's jeans.

10:02It had been missing when they found her, like it had been intentionally cut out, which was obviously pretty unusual. And it made him think that Tanya's killer had taken a trophy or something. But after a few minutes of searching around the bedroom, Ingram did not see this denim patch. In fact, he actually didn't see anything at first glance that connected John to Tanya. Until he went over to look through this cardboard box of papers and began sifting through them. And when he pulled out a torn piece of scrap paper and read what was on it, he froze. On this piece of scrap paper was a handwritten message that just said, quote, T.

10:39Bennett, good peace. Ingram immediately called his partner over who walked over and looked at the note and both of them are like, okay, obviously we need to bring John in right away for a chat. But after leaving the bedroom and walking towards the door to leave, who comes in the front door? None other than John Sosnowski.

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14:02For more information on travel perks, go to chime.com slash disclosures. About an hour later, Ingram sat at an interrogation table in the sheriff's office staring across it at John. And John had a very confused look on his face, but otherwise seemed relatively calm. Back at the apartment when John had walked in the door and sort of saw the detectives and didn't know what was going on, Ingram had told him who he was and why he was there, and John had really just seemed surprised, but had quickly agreed to go with them to the station if they wanted to speak to him. But Ingram knew from experience that, you know, just because John was acting very cooperative did not mean he was innocent.

14:42Now, Ingram slid a picture of Tanya across the table and asked John if he knew who she was or had anything to do with her murder. And John didn't deny it or act horrified or offended to be asked. He just said he didn't really remember. And when Ingram showed him the note they found in his bedroom that said T. Bennett, good piece on it, John just sort of squinted at it and said he really wasn't sure if he wrote that or not. So these were all very straightforward questions. And it was highly suspicious to Ingram that John apparently just couldn't answer them, at least not cleanly. And really, the rest of his interview went the same way, with John giving mostly just vague non-answers to everything Ingram asked, no matter how binary the question was supposed to be.

15:27And Ingram was just sort of struck by how nonchalant John seemed whenever he responded, even though, I mean, he was being questioned about his connection to a murder. This was not a time to be nonchalant. This was a time to be forthcoming. However, despite Ingram's very high suspicion of John, realistically, the only evidence he had on John, at least at this point, was all circumstantial. And so was not nearly enough to actually arrest John. What they needed in order to do that was some form of hard evidence that directly connected him to Tanya's murder. So ultimately, at the end of this interview, despite how weird the whole thing had been, Ingram just sighed and told John that for now, he could go.

16:10Four days later, Ingram had just gotten to his office for the morning when his desk phone rang. He picked up and was surprised to hear Laverne's voice on the other end. But before he could ask her what this was about, Laverne told him she had found something in her car that morning and felt like he needed to see it. And when she told him what this thing was, Ingram said he would be right over. Then he immediately hung up and ran to find his partner. As he drove to Laverne's, he found his heart was racing. I mean, over the last few days, they hadn't found any additional evidence to prove John was their killer.

16:43In fact, if anything, they had actually lost some evidence since that note they found inside of John's things in his house ended up being a dead end because their analysts couldn't actually match the handwriting to John, so they didn't know for sure if it was him. But now, based on what Laverne had just told him on the phone about what she found in her car, he was pretty much positive that this was the break he needed. Within the hour, Ingram and his partner were standing in Laverne's garage with Laverne staring into the open trunk of her car. Laverne had told Ingram that she kept her car and really her whole life very, very clean.

17:21Like her apartment's clean, everything's clean all the time. And when she went into her car that day, she noticed there was a little swatch of denim sitting in the trunk. And she knew that she had not put it there. And considering she was sort of on high alert about John and about his connection to this murder. It just seemed like something worth flagging to police. And for Ingram and his partner, as they're staring into the trunk at this little swatch of denim that looks very much like the swatch of denim they were secretly looking for, they had not publicly revealed that the killer had taken a little swatch of denim from Tanya's jeans.

17:56That was private. They're looking at this thinking, oh my goodness, like this is the break we needed, clearly that's the denim from Tanya's jeans. And so Laverne was right to call this in. This is potentially huge. Now, obviously Ingram knew that they would still have to get this denim tested to make sure it really was Tanya's. I mean, it's entirely possible that it was actually Laverne's or John's or was unrelated, but circumstantially this felt like hitting the jackpot. And so Ingram watched as his partner picked up the swatch, put it into an evidence bag, and then they left and said they would have it tested and they would be in touch.

18:31The following morning, Ingram was at his desk reviewing all the evidence that they had so far. And by this point, they had a lot of evidence. The previous night, after finding the denim, they had brought John in for a polygraph test, and he had completely failed it. The test administrator had even noted that, in his opinion, John definitely knew what had happened to Tanya. So now, realistically, Ingram was just sort of waiting on confirmation that that fabric was a match. And then at that point, they could go and arrest John. And when Ingram's phone rang, he picked it up immediately, and it was the lab.

19:06So Ingram sat up straight, ready for some good news. But the tech on the other line sounded sort of glum, and he told Ingram that the denim from Laverne's car did not match the jeans that Tanya was wearing. So it was not hers. And at this, Ingram was just completely stunned. I mean, the idea that they had just found the same unique cut of denim in a car in their main suspect's house could not be a coincidence. I mean, it was not typical for people to have little swatches of denim lying around. Like, this is not something that you just happen to have. It felt sort of specific. And so there just had to be more to this than met the eye.

19:42And even though Ingram tried to work out some kind of reasonable explanation for why that swatch was there, the only thing that actually made sense was that the fake denim was planted there. And so feeling a mix of, again, shock, but also just frustration here. I mean, he thought he was so close to solving this thing. And now he was sort of back to square one. Ingram realized that the next stop had to be Laverne's. He needed to go speak to her again. Later that morning, Ingram and his partner were once again back in Laverne's living room with a very nervous looking Laverne sitting across from them.

20:17This time, Ingram was going to be a little tougher on her because he now knew that, you know, whatever she had told him before very likely was not the full story. And as soon as Ingram asked Laverne point blank if she had planted that evidence, that denim inside of her car, Laverne just kind of looked back at him and her face began to sort of quiver. And then she just started sobbing. And she told them she was so, so sorry. She explained that she had cut up some jeans and put that front button part in her car and pretended to have found it so that they'd be able to arrest John. She said she had just gotten so worried when they let him go after interviewing him because she knew John killed Tanya.

20:58He had to have. She heard him talk about it. Like he did it and he's dangerous. Then she just wanted to make sure the police held him accountable. Now when Ingram heard this, he could hear like the earnestness in her voice. Like clearly this woman is scared of John and thinks he did this. She believes he did this. And so he wanted to believe her angle here as inappropriate as planting evidence was. But, critically, he knew Laverne still was definitely not telling him everything. Because there was simply no way she could have known to plant that unique cut of the jeans unless she had intimate knowledge of the crime.

21:36Or some other inside information, but there was just something missing here. Why would she randomly choose that front cut of denim as just the evidence? Oh, here's some evidence that's going to make John look guilty. Why would she choose that? That's way too on the nose. And when he pointed this out to Laverne, it was like Laverne's energy completely shifted, you know, from sobbing and sadness and remorse to just pure, like, hesitation. Like, she didn't really know how to react, but there wasn't any more sadness. It was like, uh-oh, something's off here. And then Laverne kind of took a deep breath and she looked at Ingram and she said, I was lying.

22:15You're right. My story about planting the evidence, that was a lie. But she went on to say that the reason she had lied was because she had ultimately been too afraid that if the police knew the whole story, that she would get in trouble too. Then Laverne explained what really happened to Tanya. On the night that Tanya was murdered, Laverne said John called her that night and he was sort of frantic. And he said to her that he was in trouble and that she needed to meet him at the bar that he was at and to bring along a shower curtain. And so Laverne said, because she was very scared of John and, you know, was just fearful of asking any questions, she had just done what he said.

22:55And she got the shower curtain and she had driven out there and she found John in a parking lot standing over a body. It was Tanya and she was just lying there on the ground, motionless. Laverne said she was horrified and didn't know what to do. So she just helped. She literally helped John put Tanya's body into her car, Laverne's car, wrapped her up in that curtain she'd brought along. And then together, they dumped her body at a spot along the highway. But as Laverne continued to talk, Her story suddenly got much darker because she actually eventually confessed that, actually, Tanya had not been dead when she had first arrived.

23:34But instead, she was still clinging to life. And at John's request, Laverne had tied rope around Tanya's neck and held it tight while John sexually assaulted her. Laverne said after he was done, Tanya was no longer breathing. Ingram could barely conceal his shock when she explained this. I mean, here was this gentle, soft-spoken lady who was now telling him that she had actively participated in the sexual assault and murder of this young woman. It was hard to wrap his head around it. And at the moment, all Ingram could think was, this can't be real. But what Laverne was saying just fit. It explained John's cagey answers to his questions, his failed polygraph, and how Laverne knew the right part of the genes to cut out and fake his evidence.

24:23because she and John had been the ones who actually made the cut on Tanya's jeans. They knew. But despite getting this earth-shattering confession here, Ingram wanted to be completely sure that this version of the story Laverne was telling him was actually the truth, and he knew exactly how to prove it. The following day, Ingram was behind the wheel of his cruiser, next to his partner, and Laverne sat in the back, sort of absentmindedly staring out the window. They were driving down the highway northeast of Portland, and Ingram had instructed Laverne to let him know when they reached the spot where they dumped Tanya's body.