Business as a sport, Surge AI, and Waymo vs. Robotaxi

27:21Is this the guy who's doing Surge? So, yeah. So Edwin Chen, in like 2018, 2019, he worked at Facebook. And the story is, is that he was tasked with like making some type of Yelp style product. And what that meant was he had a list of 50 ,000 vendors, and he needed to figure out which of those 50 ,000 was a restaurant and which were a grocery store. And so he went and hired a firm, some company to parse it out. And it's manual. You had to do it manually. You had to hire some firm that had a lot of offshore talents to go through and do it all manually by hand. And he was like, it took us four months or six months, something like that.

28:06Which basically just meant we had to sit and wait. Like we couldn't do anything until we had that data. So I just had to sit and wait. And so he had this idea where he was going to make a better way to do data labeling. And the data labeling is important now because that is what a lot of AI companies use, which I had no idea they did that. And I'll explain how they do that. But basically, when a company like OpenAI wants to figure out if a certain reply is unethical. So like, for example, asking like, is it okay to like hit someone or I don't know, like whatever like questions you would ask it.

28:40A real person, and actually not just a real person, but like a really smart person, even someone who like does engineering or philosophy, needs to spend time going through all the potential answers. And to tell OpenAI, I think this one sort of fits what you're going for. But anyway, Edwin had this idea of, I'm going to create this massive workforce of philosophers, of engineers, of Ivy League grads who can go through and label all of these answers as good or bad. So AI companies can kind of, I can be like their offshore talent. And so he's done this and it started in 2020. Now he has 100 ,000 people who are in the marketplace working for him as these data labelers.

29:22and this company is completely unknown. So I think it's Surge AI, I believe is the URL. So if you go to Surge AI, it's a landing page with one paragraph. That's an amazing paragraph. If you want, you can read it. Do you want to read it? Yeah, I was just reading it. What made people like Hemingway, Kahlo, and Von Neumann so extraordinary? Their life, the books they read, the stumbles they had, the reinforcement. Every time friends laughed at their jokes and every time they didn't. It's the people that met, the police explored, and every decision they made along the way. Data does for AI what life does for humans.

29:53It elevates the neural networks that know nothing about the world into the intelligence capable of providing new art, sending rocket ships to Mars, et cetera. Our mission is to shape AGI with the richness of human intelligence. Curious, witty, imaginative, and unexpected brilliance. We wake up every day trying to produce the data that makes this possible. Amazing, right? Romantic. It's romantic. This guy made like a giant fleet of overseas data labelers sound like the army from 300. Yeah, it's the best. And the real website, I believe, is dataannotation.tech. That's the website where the annotators go to apply.

30:35But the way the business – yeah, it's much more traditional. And that one, there's like a brown dude staring at a laptop with a reflection blurring his eyes. And it says, get paid to train AI in your schedule. And so the way the business model works is they have 100 ,000 of these folks. And they train them on different standards and whatever. And then they've also made software so they can show the basically homework or task to their folks. And a company like OpenAI or Google, whatever, is going to pay Surge millions and millions of dollars. And Surge is then going to take something like 30 % or 40 % of it and give it to the annotator to do the work.

31:14So this company is only five years old. And it was leaked that they did$1 billion in revenue in the last 12 months. And this guy, Edwin Chen, he's only 37 years old, and he owns 100 % of the company. They have not taken any outside funding. Now listen, their biggest competitor is a company called Scale. Scale is run by this guy named Alexander Wang. I think Alex Wang, I think his name is. And it recently sold for something like 30 times revenue. I believe they were doing like 800, 900 million in revenue. They just sold half of the company to Facebook. I think it was for 28 billion or 30. Yeah, 30.

31:55Which means this guy, Edwin, who's 37 and has a five-year-old company, presumably is worth something like$30 billion. And you can't find him on Twitter. He has no blog. You can't find photos of him. He used to have a blog, but you have to go to Web Archive in order to find it because he took it down. And his customers are like, Edwin is not online. You can't find him anywhere. And we like it that way. His business is very boring. The branding is basically non-existent, and it just does a very good job. And compared to Scale, who's like the hottest kid on the block, like Alex Wang, was just on Theo Vaughn's podcast.

32:32He was at the inauguration. He's kind of like the it guy right now. These guys are the exact opposite. You're not going to find them anywhere. They only have 100 employees. They're totally under the radar, and it's super, super fascinating. Dude, this is wild. I did not know that he bootstrapped the whole thing. I also had never heard this company until scale got bought. I had never heard of this company. So their company is killing it now because scale got bought. So because scale got bought is now owned basically by Facebook, Google and a bunch of other companies, they go, ah, we don't want to, we don't have with you anymore.

33:08We go on straight search. But they were already winning. They were at a billion in revenue and scale was at 750 billion. And the reason why they're winning is because they are, they charge a premium and they're, he's like, I don't, we got scale, but it's like, I wasn't trying to get scale, meaning I wasn't trying to grow big. I was trying to hire the best people and to train them really well. And I charged for it. I charged three times what scale charges and the results have been better. And people really like us because of it. And this whole data labeling industry, I had no idea about this. I didn't know that people were behind the scenes making these decisions.

33:45It's kind of wild. I mean, this is one of the best like picks and shovels businesses. So if you've never heard of picks and shovels, the idea is like anytime there's a gold rush, who makes the money? Yeah, it's the few people who find the gold. But the more reliable way to make money is just to sell picks and shovels to everybody else who's rushing into the gold rush. And scale and surge were the best picks and shovels businesses, maybe besides NVIDIA. because what they were doing is saying, cool, everybody wants to compete to become the, you want to make AGI, you want to make AGI, you're all raising billions and billions of dollars.

34:20Well, all of you have this same problem and I will sell the data labeling service to all of you. And this is so funny that now that Facebook is buying scale, it's like there's all that revenue has to find a new home. Like this is crazy that that's the best news ever for this guy. And there's another company called Handshake. So if you go to joinhandshake.com, previously, or it still might be this, but they were known as a company that helped recent college graduates get jobs. And so basically, they're a job board or job network for 22-year-olds. Dude, yeah, this was for college kids. Okay, well, listen to this.

35:01They noticed a few months ago that Surge and Scale were using their service to find these data annotators. And so they go, we're going to do that now. And so in a very short amount of time, they pivoted. And that business that they have is going to be at$100 million a year in the next couple months in a very short amount of time. because what they did was they went and just said, oh, you are looking for a data annotation gig? We got you. Let's go ahead and get your training and we're just going to provide that service to folks. And so Handshake is building that business now. Dude, that's so crazy.

35:43I remember using this because I was like, oh, it's interesting that nobody's really built the kind of like one place to go hire college interns or college like fresh grads. And they built this like marketplace where you could go post on a job board at my local college here and I could get, but it was like kind of crappy, dude. It was like, it wasn't great. It was very like little liquidity in the market. But I remember thinking like, this is an interesting idea. Somebody like, it's a marketplace. I like marketplaces. Somebody should do this right. And I remember they were kind of like puttering along for a while, it seemed like.

36:15And this is so funny that they pivoted to this and now we're gonna just explode. Yeah, and if you Google Handshake data annotation, you can find the blog posts that they wrote on them announcing that they were doing this. And so it basically just says that for the past decade, Handshake has changed how college students started their careers. And then it goes on to basically say, we're changing the company to like just hire, just do this thing. And it's already making, and they don't actually say this, but like it's now making$100 million a year. And you know, I don't know how long this stuff will last.

36:48Like, you know, this might be a business that I think in like seven to 10 years, you may not need this anymore. Like it seems like the way AI is going, you may not need this kind of human in the loop to label all this data. Either they label enough data where then the model learns how to label data. You don't need humans doing this. Or they use a thing that doesn't have the RLHF, right? Like you just do reinforcement learning without human feedback. And I think some people who are kind of pure believers in AI think you won't need the human feedback at a certain point. So this might be a get while they're getting good type of business.

37:27So let me tell you a potential counter to that. So Tim Westergen founded a company called Pandora. And I think he started it in 1990, maybe 98. It was like pre-iPhone. Wait, when did the iPhone come out? 08, 06? Yeah, so it was like probably like 2002 then. And anyway, he told me this story because we had him talk at one of our events where he was like, I raised$7 million and all$7 million of that went to hiring basically ex-musicians or musicians who were teachers and didn't make a lot of money. And for two years, I had about 150 of them listening to music. And I gave them basically a scantron of all types of attributes that a song could potentially have.

38:11And so if you're listening to the Beatles, you would fill out like, okay, it sounds like it's at like 90 beats per minute. It sounds like there's guitar, like it's melodic, it's lighthearted, whatever. and after two years of doing this he put all the data basically scantrons into this algorithm that he built and he started playing like uh he told me a beetle song and then and then he clicked next and it would suggest new music that was similar to the one that the beetle song that he originally played and he said the bgs came up and he was like the bgs and the beetles they're not similar at all what the hell and then he kept clicking next he's like oh wait they have the same melody or they had they all like have the same like they make me feel similar and he was like it's working it's working And so originally, his idea was, I'm going to create kiosks at Best Buy.

38:54So you could say, I'm interested in Beatles, but here's like five other songs that Best Buy could show you, and you will buy those CDs while you're there. And then the iPhone came out, and he was like, oh my god, this is actually the exact way to apply this. And so this idea of data labeling has been around forever. And when I was reading Scale or about Surge, I was like, oh my god, this is exactly what Tim was explaining to me, how Pandora started. And so this has been around for 20 years. And so you say, I don't know if it's going to be around or not, but I don't know. It's been around for 20 years so far.

39:22Yeah, that's true. But it's kind of like self-driving, which is coming out now. I've taken the Waymo's in San Francisco and RoboTaxi in Austin. The Tesla self-driving just launched in Austin, I think like two days ago or something. But they took two different approaches. So Waymo basically has this really expensive car. I forgot the all-in cost, but it's something like$150 ,000 to$300 ,000 is the cost of the car with all the sensors on it, right? So they have this really expensive car with LiDAR. And in addition to the LiDAR, they hard-code and hard-map the roads. So for years, they would drive around and basically map the road physically.

40:05And they could only launch in cities where they had mapped the roads. And Tesla took this other approach, which was basically cameras only, no LiDAR, and we're not going to hard map the roads. We're going to let people drive around, and then the car needs to have a brain that's smart enough to figure out a road, even if it's never been on that road before. And it was this interesting bet because Elon was like, LiDAR is not only we're not doing it, it's stupid, and that's a dead-end path. And everybody else was all in on LiDAR. Everyone's like, LiDAR makes it safer. It's better. You can't do this without LiDAR.

40:38And Elon's point was, we humans drive with just eyes. We only have cameras. I don't have a LIDAR in my brain, and I'm able to drive safely, right? And LIDAR is what? LIDAR is like you're shooting some type of signal and it bounces back? You can see through things. So I don't know exactly what's the difference between LIDAR and radar and all these different things. But it's another version of basically scanning that allows you to do what a camera can't. A camera can't see through an object. LIDAR can. It could sense that there's another object behind it. So the classic example is like, you know, maybe you're going to do a turn.

41:13There's something obstructing your view. But then there's a little old grandma walking on the crosswalk. But you couldn't see the grandma until you started to turn visibly. But LiDAR would know that there's an object there that's moving. Point is other sensors besides cameras. Whereas Elon was like, no, we're just going to put like whatever, eight cameras on the car and that's going to make it work. And for a long time, there was a big debate. Some experts thought Elon is wrong. Some were just like, Elon is correct. Elon we trust. And very smart people were on both sides of the debate. And it was like a very high stakes debate because self-driving cars is one of the most valuable prizes that there is.

41:50Like self-driving cars, I don't think people really realize it. I think because people talked about it for a while, they got kind of numb to it. This actually happened with AI too. People have been talking about AI, maybe machine learning, deep learning for a long time. people didn't really realize when something actually had changed and then suddenly like wait it's actually here and the same people who had been tracking it for a long time were almost late to the party because they mistakenly wrote it off as yeah yeah yeah i've heard this before and so the same thing's happening with self-driving cars or it's sort of like a yeah yeah yeah but it's like wait a minute it's actually happening now um it's because it's an extreme game changer both like for society for tesla's business right like tesla's business is now going to be if you own a Tesla, when you're instead of 95 % of the time your car just sits parked, you're going to just tap a button and say, go make me some money, please.

42:40And like a dog, it's going to go fetch. It's just going to go out there and it's going to start doing rides for people. And it's going to start earning you money passively all the time. Dude, I think Morgan Stanley or Chase, one of the big banks last week wrote this report where they had to say what the world's going to look like with self-driving. And it wasn't like um it was far more grand they're like the economy is going to look radically different because people are going to have so much more time like it was like at a macro scale it was like oh like the world will change because of this but it was also like there's 60 i think thousand card deaths a year like what's the world gonna look like with with more people like like it was like a pretty meaningful like it was like a very grand way of thinking about it wasn't just like oh wow I could play on my phone while I'm walking or driving to work.

43:29It was like, no, everything changes. I asked last night, I asked Grok, I said, what are the second order effects of self-driving cars? Here's what it said. So it's like cities are going to look completely different. Right now, parking lots itself occupy 30 % of all urban land in some cities. And this is going to, you're not going to need parking lots because the cars aren't going to just sit parked. They're going to be running around. You're going to need way less cars in a city. Plus they're not going to sit still. So you don't need all of the space. if you just look around a city how much space is dedicated just to parking like we're going to look back and that's going to look sort of like a caveman style thing it's like in the future those are going to be parks and yeah it's going to be it's going to be smoking in a restaurant yeah exactly and so like the good version of this is that's like you know green spaces and affordable housing but like who knows maybe maybe it actually gets co-opted for some other purpose they all just become like you know drone delivery uh you know parking units where amazon keeps like 10 million delivery drones.

44:27The next one is labor. So right now there's three and a half million truck drivers alone, let alone all of the like Uber and taxi drivers. And you're just not going to need that job. Period. And I don't know what happens to that, but there we go. The next one is, you know, basically, I think the average person spends something like 90 minutes a day just commuting. And so you get, you know, of your wake time, let's say you're awake for 16 hours, you're going to add, you know, what is that? So let's just pretend it's two out of 16. You're going to add like, you know, 13 % more time to everybody's day where they can now sleep, eat, work, play, right?

45:06You're going to sit in a car and you're not going to have to think about the car. You're just going to be able to do one of those things, which also means the car becomes a new place for entrepreneurs to build experiences, right? Like today, there's no one out there being like I build car games, right? There's people who build mobile games and Xbox games, but there's nobody who builds car games. Well, car games is going to become a thing because people are going to sit in cars and play video games. People are going to sit in cars and they're going to relax, recover. They're going to work. And so you're going to build tools that go in them.

45:35Another one is insurance. It's like the whole insurance system, like Buffett's Big Bets and Geico and all those things. It's all based on human driving. And so if humans aren't driving anymore, like both the risk and the risk reward ratios change, but also who are you insuring? You're insuring the software company versus like individuals. Like how's this all going to work? And so that whole, all the whole insurance industry changes. And then basically like car ownership. So today owning a car is both like utility, but also status symbol. So it's going to be kind of interesting. Like you're a car guy.

46:09Like I wonder when they're self-driving cars and basically transportation's just on tap, like flowing like water, right? You push a button and in 30 seconds, the car of your liking pulls up. It's going to be like people who like horses now. It's going to be a small group of people who are passionate. Yeah, it's just like, oh, you're passionate about it and you are lucky enough to have enough room or enough money to afford it. But maybe I'll buy a Groupon and can go experience that once in my life. That's what it's going to be. Yeah, or horseback riding is therapeutic. People like to brush a horse or pet a horse.

46:41It's going to be like that with a car. It's going to be like male therapy to just like get in there and just be behind the wheel. Have control over something in your life. Yeah, it's good. Or like it's like punk. Yeah, you're going to like feel the noise and like smell the gas. Like it's going to be it's going to be like a hobby. Yeah, it's not going to it's not going to exist. I don't think I think it's going to be a lot longer. But like in 20, it could be 20 years, 25 years. It's not going to be in the next five years. But yeah, it's going to be a hobby. Are you sure about that? Why do you think it's not going to be in the next five years?

47:10waybos are now doing 20 of all the rides in san francisco because that was zero like dude have you like have you ever like a large percentage of people of americans have to have to drive um let's say 60 miles one way to to work or they have to like pull stuff or carry stuff i just don't think i think that for the urban there's it's not um oh um there's good there's going to be like a there's probably going to be like four sections of users so it's like young urbanites and it's like yeah you guys don't need a car at all like you're you're you're doing probably already there with uber yeah and then like the far end of that spectrum is like uh rural people who have to actually tow stuff you know even though everyone has a truck very few actually use it but there's like that section and there's like the people in between and there's gonna be like a timeline because like if you ever you can't really tow anything on an electric car right now uh it's like it's they you say you can but go talk to someone who lives in rural texas when You have to like be driving shit around all day.

48:08It's like impossible. So I think that there's going to be like, it's going to be like for, you know, what's that early? When you say it's not going to be five years. Are you saying it's not going to be meaning self-driving is not going to work? No, it's going to work. It's just not going to just the user adoption. It's like, it's going to, it's going to take a minute for that, for the whole spectrum of people. I think for the urbanites and people like that, it's, it's tomorrow we're going to do it. I think. Yeah. I mean, that guy towing probably still doesn't, he still has an AOL email address, right?

48:35Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's pretty safe to say that that person's not, yeah, it might be 40 years before that person. It's going to be a long time. But then, like, you know, there's, like, a lot of, you know, people, like, I'm one of them. Like, I'm romantic about my gas vehicle. I had an electric car, and I got rid of it. And I'm, like, in my head, I'm, like, I acknowledge it's better. I acknowledge that, like, it's the future. But it sucks. I want the gas. Yeah, it's like our vegan friends. It's like, I get it. We shouldn't kill creatures. But it just tastes so good. But when you dip them in ranch, it's fantastic.

49:11But I'm excited too. What's crazy is in Austin, I think, or SF, people are actually paying more for the Waymos. Yeah, yeah. It's not that much cheaper yet. But people want to not be around someone. And that was unexpected. So when I drive my Ivo BMW that has self-driving stuff, I feel way safer on that than if it were just me. and I think that there's like 20 % of people and it's usually men I've noticed. I've noticed women tend to hate, everyone I've talked to hates self-driving and every man I've talked to likes it. And like, do you have any self-driving now? No, well, I don't have it. So I haven't had that level of a, I haven't had a sample size to pull.

49:54No, I've noticed that. I'm curious if that's common or if you're just like indexing on three people. No, it's, well, yeah, I am. But yeah, it's like five of my friends. Like the husbands use it and the wives are like, nope, I don't mess with that. I don't use it. But I feel way safer with it. Hey, this episode is brought to you by Mercury. They are the fintech of choice for over 200 ,000 companies. I myself use it for eight different companies. The reason why we all choose it is because it has everything you need under one roof. So like my e-commerce company, it's super important for us to be able to easily wire transfer, pay all our different vendors and suppliers all around the world.

50:28And the old way with our more traditional bank that shall now be named, I'd try it online. It would say no. It would freeze my account. Then I'd have to go in, book an appointment, speak to a specialist who would try to upsell me on something I didn't need. And then finally, after 30 minutes there, then they charged me 50 bucks for the pleasure of that terrible interaction. And now with Mercury, I just go online, push two buttons, and I'm done. It's such a seamless experience. It's very intuitive. Everything's under one place. They basically took all the things any company would need for their financial tech, and they made it super easy to use to put it into one platform.

50:59So highly, highly recommend it. If you're not using Mercury, I question your judgment. So that's it. You've heard it on My First Million. For more information, check out Mercury.com. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Check show notes for details. You want to do one more thing or you have something? Well, I have a... So I tweeted something out that Elon replied to over the weekend. How did that make you feel? Did you like clap and like scream? No, so first of all, I played it so cool. If you had seen me, you would have thought, I might be under the weather. That's how cool I was playing it.

51:34And actually what happened is I just texted my wife, and I was like, oh, not Elon replying to me. And then I just forgot about it. Next day, I didn't even think about it. I moved on. My mom calls me. She's like, Sean, what did you say? I'm like, what? But she's like, Sean, what did you say? Elon, what did you say to Elon? And I was like, what? My wife put it up on her Instagram story. And I was like, oh my God, I'm trying to play it cool over here. And then you made it like, you know, lame city. So that felt interesting that I got like multiple phone calls from people. And I was like, wow. That's like the only time your wife has shared something that is when another person replied to you.

52:13Yeah, exactly. And so I thought that was interesting how big of the reaction was. But the thing I had said was I wrote within a couple of years, not using AI while you're doing your job will be the equivalent of coming to work without a computer. Like if someone just turned up and they're like, no, I didn't bring it today. You'd be like, what the hell, dude? Like, what are you planning to do? What is the what's the plan here? That's how it's going to be. If you're if you're trying to do your job and you're not using AI constantly to do your job. Yeah, that was good. He was like, you know, sooner probably.

52:47and um and so that was like and so i started thinking about that and i started thinking about um somebody else said this thing they go pretty soon being a doctor who's not using ai as a co-pilot like you let's say you're a radiologist and you're just trying to eyeball every every mri and you're not also running it through ai that'll be considered malpractice because like you put the patient at risk by not at least including the second layer of AI diagnostics. And I thought that's pretty interesting. It's like the flip is going to go so much from this doesn't work, you know, something we don't do, we don't even use it to if you're not using it, it's considered malpractice, whether it's corporate malpractice or medical malpractice.

53:28My doctor friend admitted to me the other day, he goes, open AI is a better doctor than me. And he was like, and I knew this was going to be popular because for years, he's been a doctor for 10 years, patients come to me and said, well, Google says this, or WebMD says this. And he says, over the last six months, the only people who have used that reasoning is with OpenAI. And I said, well, according to OpenAI. Yeah, Chachapiti said this. And he goes, and they're right. A lot of times the diagnosis is right. I got in a fight with a doctor recently about this. Did I tell you this? What did they say my mom had to have a surgery and but she was on a trip and so I'm like calling in to the doctor every time the doctor would make her rounds she would like FaceTime me in um because she's on the other side of the country and so the doctor would come in and like doctors doctors are very hit or miss I love some doctors but a lot of doctors I'm like wow this is an extremely underwhelming experience and so this one doctor comes in and she's like yeah your levels were fine and then And I'm like, I actually read the test through chat GPT and the levels were like high for this.

54:37And she's like, well, which level? And I'm like, I tell her, I'm like, whatever the thing, whatever the term was. And she's like, yeah, that was high. But, you know, it depends on the exact number. So I go, what was the number? I would have to check. I'm like, you're the doctor. So, yeah, you would have to check. Like, you know, what are you talking about? And I'm like, you know, basically chat GPT said if it's above this, then you should consider doing this, like, additional. additional step like do you believe that that's like do you agree with that like do you think we should do that that step she's like well i mean you're putting me on the spot here and i don't have the number and i'm like and she basically was getting pissed and she's like well if you're going to ask me questions that i'm going to need to go look at the number and i literally was like yeah you are going to need to go look at the number then because i'm going to ask the questions like what are we doing here i don't understand like why are you offended by me asking if you if you have seen the data from the test, the test you just said to run, and now you're coming back to discuss the test results, and you don't want to look at the test result?

55:37I don't really understand what's happening here. Well, I think what's going to happen is that, you know how, have you noticed, so have you ever been to a doctor now with an AI scribe? So like they have like for, okay, so for a long time. Oh, I was humiliating her in front of her AI scribe. Is that what happened? Well, for a long time, they could have been human scribes. And so like, have you been to a doctor and seeing like a person on an iPad. Like literally, it looks like the doctor's FaceTiming. Typing notes, yeah. Yeah, and that's like a scribe. Now they have AI scribes. And I think what's gonna happen is like the AI is gonna like talk up and be like, actually, man, he's right.

56:12Like, I think that's what's gonna happen. And if I was an entrepreneurial doctor, I would 100 % start a new practice all centered around, we are AI first. So we work with AI, you know, And I don't think that we aren't at the point, and maybe we'll never be at the point where you totally trust it, just like you always want the pilot, even if autopilot is still a thing. But I would go heavy on that, of leaning into we have all of the contacts here. We have all of your files uploaded to our chat, GPT, or whatever it is, and have an AI first. Because I think that a lot of people like you and me and people listening to this podcast, they have a similar sentiment where they're like, oh, no, I trust a computer way more than a human being.

56:52but I would also want the human being to put their stamp on it it's also and I want to sue them if I'm wrong because it's not even that like oh the AI found the problem and the doctor didn't sometimes it's just as simple as like cool the doctor came in they talked kind of fast they didn't fully explain I still have more questions and so you go and you ask chat GPT to explain it to you maybe simpler or you ask some follow-up questions maybe you're not as embarrassed to ask questions you feel like you're not like you know the person's not like in a rush to get out of there like a lot of doctors are.

57:22And so sometimes it's not even that the AI doctor is better because it's smarter. Sometimes it's because it's infinitely patient or it's an infinitely better communicator or, you know, it knows, um, you know, maybe other things about you, or, you know, you could ask some follow-up questions. You don't feel silly doing it. Like those are other components of the doctor experience, essentially bedside manner that AI is better at. Yeah. And, uh, so I'm like very eager to see how this works. I go to a doctor now, a concierge doctor, and it's not very expensive. But the reason I go there is the average, at most doctors, they have to see four patients an hour.

57:59So they're at 15 minutes. And is that insane? I remember I went to a doctor and I had an earache. I'm like, guys, my ear is killing me. And he spent no time trying to help me figure this out. And I went to a concierge doctor and the average time is 45 minutes. So we can thoroughly walk through things and so if i can just use all the information that they have and then go and ping chat gbt to further the conversation it is pretty brilliant um i'm very eager to see what's going to happen i like people act like ai is amazing for a bunch of different stuff and it is but what they're doing with medicine and drugs and cancer and things like that is like pretty astounding and i think that's going to be the major breakthrough in the next couple years dude the other one lazy ass parenting so your kid's a little young for this but it is amazing dude i'll open up gemini and it has like a camera mode but why do you use different ones you've said claude or sorry you said uh grok and now you're saying gemini and then we also refer to so you use different ones it's like you know you go to your different friends for different questions you only ask me certain questions sometimes you go to jack smith and sometimes you go to your you know you go to Joe, you go to different people for different things.

59:05So like, if you want to be, if you want something that's a little bit more real and objective, I think Grok is better. If you want something that's either code or creative writing, Claude is better. You know, the catchall is chat GPT. And then Gemini has some like advanced features. So this is what I'm saying, like Gemini has the thing where you just turn your camera on like FaceTime. And I think it's for like, maybe you're supposed to like, show it your car and be like, how do I repair this? And it like tells you what to do but I just pointed at my kids and I'm like hey we're playing charades guess what they're doing and then my kids will like get on the ground and start like crawling and it's like hmm seems to be a boy crawling maybe it's a snake is are you a worm and it like tries to guess it they love it dude and so I'm able to just straight up chill and let them play with AI it is amazing another one I'll do is I'll just be like hey I have a five-year-old and a four-year-old here and they want trivia questions.

1:00:01They like animals. They like Paw Patrol. They like, you know, they know a little bit about Pokemon, but nothing too complicated. Ask them a bunch of questions. Cheer them on when they get it right. If they get it wrong, tell them the right answer. Keep track of the score. Here's their names. Go. That's the prompt. And it plays trivia endlessly with my kids and they love it because it's all audio, which kids can do. They don't have to like be on screens to be able to do this. And so I'm just discovering like game after game, I can play with them. Like I'll do like basically replaced kuman with hey i need um advanced kindergarten math which like i don't even know what that means but it like gets you for whatever reason those three words give me the sweet spot of like a question that that kind of works for my kids and um it's like a tutor right it's an infinitely patient tutor with them and it's not perfect in the sense of like you know sometimes it like starts and stops its audio because if you make any sound it thinks you're talking but damn it's pretty it's pretty good and uh it's like already usable for us i've not seen i didn't even i didn't know much about gemini gemini live i had no idea what this was is this google this google gemini is like after summer break you know that one kid who comes back it's like they're kind of like hot now but you still have the old image of them like their reputation is still being like not hot yeah but objectively they're hot now yeah nobody's really on it yet that's what gemini is gemini was basically out of the game it's google's ai tools out of the game it's like i was just chat gpt grok she changed yeah and then she changed and she like it's like wait like she got contacts and like she learned how to do her hair she like walked it watched the makeup tutorial it's like she started rollerblading which was like surprisingly good cardio and now like suddenly gemini could do things that like the other ones can't do but nobody's on it yet which doesn't really actually give you any benefits wait so gemini is hot now gemini's hot now google's hot google's hot yeah i don't know man that's hard for me to buy into but yeah because you're one of those jocks at school who's just stuck in seventh grade you forgot what happened over seventh grade summer all right i'll use this yeah i'm just stuck on chat gpt uh and i don't use gronk because i i'm shocked when people say they use gronk i'm like Wait, so you go to like Twitter.com to use AI?

1:02:17No, grok.com. Is that the same thing as that's the Twitter one? Yeah. Because Steph Smith just got a job at this other one. What was that other one called? No, she got it at Grok with a Q. That's stupid naming, man. Unfortunate. Unfortunate names. I'm a shareholder of Grok with a Q also, but unfortunate naming situation. Yeah, and it's AI as well? They're making chips. okay well they should change their name

1:02:50yeah that doesn't make sense or at least the pronunciation right like i don't know like i don't know how you also used to be grok or something like that i don't know what they're gonna do they could be grok i guess but they yeah grok is so it's the same i love how you put in the n in there like it's rob gronkowski wait what did i say you're saying grok oh what What is it? Croc. Croc? Yeah. Like the shoes? Crocs? Yeah, like Crocs. Yeah. Wait, so what is the Twitter thing? What do you mean? What is it? That's also Croc. Oh, that's not Gronk? Oh, I thought it was Gronk. Yeah. There's no N in any of them.

1:03:29That guy's a football player. He's a retired football player. Dude, I went to Montana to visit a friend last week, and I wore overalls because they're like the best i saw a photo of that and i just thought to myself holy shit this guy has gotten this guy's got no no limits he's just wearing overalls as standard standard wear it's the best clothing because you could put your phone in your wallet right there on the chest and so you're like holy kids and like you just have so many pockets and you have like this right here i love it and she's like oh you got these did you think that we're all cowboys here and i was like huh but she's like you wore your overalls to montano you're trying to make fun of us i was like what be talking about i uh i've worn these for years like i am not pretending uh no i actually just got it by the way i was very inspired by your instagram post you wrote something uh the caption of your post you go from now on i'm only taking photos that if my kid looked at it 20 years from now they'd be like my dad was pretty cool i thought that was great that's that's because You have that photo of your father, right?

1:04:38Of him when he was in his 30s and you're a baby and he's like doing something cool. He's wearing a cool shirt. And you're like, oh, wow, dad was sick. You're like, oh, his mustache was so strong. Yeah, you don't see them like that anymore, right? Like they don't have hair anymore. They're like fat now or whatever. And so you don't see that side of them. But like it lets you put a little respect on their name when you see like, oh, damn, when they were young, they were actually kind of – that's actually kind of fly what they were wearing. So I was smoking a cigar, which I never do, but I was smoking a cigar, and they were going to take a photo with my kid.

1:05:08Someone had a camera. I was like, oh, take photos. And I put the cigar. I used to hide it. I would hide it behind my back. And I'm like, no, fuck this. She's going to be proud. So I put it back in. Dude, do you think smoking is going to be cool in 30 years? That's going to be like you had a slave with you or something. It's going to be crazy that you were just smoking with a baby on your shoulder. Brother, have you seen the photo of the eight guys sitting on the beam off the Empire State Building? That's a great picture. I think to myself, those guys are crazy. They're dangerous. But they're fucking hard.

1:05:43That is awesome. And so I will never be on the beam of the Empire State Building a thousand feet above the air. But at least I could smoke a cigar and look remotely cool. Dude, we should print this out. I want this framed. Dude, three of them have overalls very similar to the ones you were wearing. Yeah, what's up? Same make and model. Yeah. You just need this, like, beret hat. You probably have this. What am I talking about? Of course you have this hat. Yeah, and the courage to eat lunch 1 ,000 feet above the ground, which is, like, even back then, the coworkers were like, guys, what are you doing?

1:06:18There's a cafeteria, like, right here. Like, what the fuck? All right, that's it. That's the pod. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like my days off. On the road, let's travel, never looking back.

1:06:41All right, this episode is brought to you by Mercury. They are the finance platform of choice for over 200 ,000 companies. You shouldn't be surprised because I use it myself for not one, not two, but I have eight different Mercury accounts. I have seven for different companies that I'm a part of. And then I have my own personal account because now they have personal banking, which is a really cool feature. I highly, highly recommend it. Like I said, I use it myself. And the reason why is because the way that Mercury works is beautiful. It's very intuitive. And you could tell that it's actually made by a startup founder.

1:07:09It's an entrepreneur. You could tell it's made by somebody who used other banking products in the past and didn't like all the different rough edges and annoyances and decided to actually fix it himself. And really any type of entrepreneur you are, let's say you're an agency. Well, one of the things every agency has to do is be able to send invoices, easily create them, send them to customers and stay current on your balances with all your customers. Well, you can do that inside Mercury. And so I think that Mercury is great. Highly recommend you check it out. And thank you for sponsoring the show.

1:07:34For more information, check out mercury.com. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Check show notes for details.