How fortnite made me a millionaire

21:56Can you throw us away, please? Exactly. I should have been the guy in the bathroom who pulls the paper towel out and hands it to people. That would have gotten me more success than what I was trying. so just switching to like dude there's like a camera following me right now and i'm screwed if i don't do this i whenever i see reality tv i'm like why don't they just say that that works way better anyways but my point being my point being is for a lot of people in these situations where the thing's just not working going to ask for a job a it's normal b it's incredibly mortifying because you're like shit i'm supposed to be this guy who has this business i put all my identity into it now i'm applying it feels weird it feels uncomfortable but we've all done it and you did it in one company that uh well it just adds a list of screw-ups so in 2011 or 12 before the monkey fair thing i only applied to one other job and it was this company called stripe that i thought was going to be maybe a good company maybe a good startup and uh i think it was maybe valued 100 million or less at the time oh my god it's now almost i don't know what it is now it's 100 billion 100 billion so so you know i did the math a few years ago and i was was like wow my entry-level sales type of job would have made me like 20 million dollars if i held and that was then it's probably doubled since then so i did what you did i applied to the job i didn't know how to do it it was my first job interview ever didn't know how to do it and um i uh i had a layup dude because my mentor that guy john prendergrass i mentioned from the sushi thing he was the mentor of the guy hiring me so i asked him i was like yo can you put in a word, he put it the strongest word.

23:31He was like, yo, this guy's, this kid's amazing. Yeah. Hire this kid. He's an entrepreneur. You're lucky he's even applying for a job. He gave me like such a strong intro. I don't remember what it was, but it was, I remember thinking like, like lay up, like this is like so easy. Oh my God. And that bit me in the ass that attitudes. Cause I got on the call and the guy was like, Hey, you know, he says great things, but I just want to, you know, ask you a few questions. And I just started bombing the interview. And to the point where he gave me the sort of sell me this pen exercise. And brother, I did not sell that pen.

24:04You didn't buy? That pen stayed in my pocket. It did not fly off the shelf. What would your answer have? I'm sure you replayed it in your head 10 ,000 times. How would you have? No, I was so traumatized. You know, I'm like, I'm a student of the game of life. I love to learn. Not this one, dude. I just buried that shit deep down and moved on with life. Sometimes you just take the L on your soul and you just move on. So I was thinking about this the other day. Do you agree with this where, you know, we just summarized 10 years of your life in 38 minutes and we laughed about it. But A, it's not funny when you're going through it.

24:43Incredibly unfunny. It feels like, the worst part is you're comparing yourself to your friends, right? And you're like, why is this so much easier for them? Why are they getting this and that? And that like eats you, that like you turn green with envy. But the second thing is like you do it for 10 years And then all of a sudden, in like the 10th, 11th to 12th year, you look back and you're like, oh, it's kind of working. And then it feels like slow progress, slow progress, a little bit better progress. And all of a sudden you snap your fingers and it's like, holy moly, like I've just grown so much.

25:11It's like, I don't know if you ever like when you when you've been getting fit where it's like, I feel nothing. I feel I feel nothing. I feel nothing. And then eight weeks pass. And finally, you're like, oh, man, I think I feel my stomach. It definitely feels different today. And that's the new baseline. And so I guess what I'm getting at is it's months or years of hard work and then overnight you feel progress. Yeah, slowly and then all at once. So I just gave you 10 years. And I think in truth, because I fast forwarded through some of the apps we tried. We tried many apps in that app phase. So I think I did 12 different failed companies in the 10 years.

25:47So over 12. 10 years. Brutal. in the, I'm 37 now, in the seven years since, I think I've gone like five for five. Everything has worked right away. And I don't know, the portfolio of the companies where I own either majority or just a huge chunk is probably close to a hundred million in revenue now. And I think it's 75 million in revenue. And the feeling is so different, not just because it's successful, but because like you just, it's like a route, you know how to drive. You just know what potholes to avoid much better. Still hit some, right? Like it's not like you're foolproof, but like, man, the hit rate going from 0 for 12 to 5 for 5 in the last few years is so different.

26:37It's unbelievable. What allowed you to go from 5 to 5 and 75 million in revenue? So project selection is the first one, right? Because I tried, think about what I tried, a restaurant, this like innovative biotechnology that's like a science project. I tried creating the next hit app, the next billion dollar app, the next Twitter, the next YouTube, the next Facebook. Like we launched a messenger, we launched like a social network. We like, those are just one in a million type of success ideas. So the odds were against me, even if I was good at executing and I wasn't. So I was like bad at executing and then trying these like moonshot things that I really didn't understand what the hell I was getting myself into.

27:16whereas since then, I chose projects that were like way less risky. You know, like I kind of understood how to do them. A high hit rate, I just need to execute. You know, so I did an e-commerce company. I did, you know, a services business. I did, you know, we have somewhere.com. It's like an overseas staffing business. Like every company needs to hire people. And I, in my own businesses, was hiring a ton of people overseas. It was like a no-brainer. It was a business that was already working. I bought into it and helped grow it, right? Like that's just like a much more foolproof way to do things.

27:51So project selection was number one. Stop chasing these like moonshots that if they work, you make a trillion dollars and you get to have a movie about you, but most likely are not gonna work. So I stopped doing that. I stopped playing the like Silicon Valley dream. The second thing was more action, less planning. So understanding like what amount of research and planning is helpful and at what point you need action because action produces information. And I told you kind of in the first start, we spent nine months basically in the planning phase. And that was a huge mistake. We didn't confront reality of the business.

28:26I remember when you started Hampton, before you ever announced it, you showed me your calendar and we called it the zebra calendar because it was just 20 minute stripes on your calendar, on your day. And it was just calls with founders and you were like personally selling. You could have offloaded that. You could have launched the business. You could have done any number of things, but you were like hand-to-hand combat selling to try to figure out like, yo, is this something people want? And what message, what version of this, what message of this actually like gets me that kind of like real quick yes reaction versus like people just being polite to me.

28:57So going for action rather than planning and knowing when to use which gear was the second thing. And third was just like, pay attention to what works, get around really smart people and pay attention to what works because success leaves clues. Do you think, okay, so you're 37 now. First of all, would you have predicted, when did you sell Blab, Bebo? 2019, something like that. So that was six years ago. 120 maybe. Six years ago, so 31-ish. So let's just say that was six years ago. Let's round up to 47. Well, first of all, at 30 or 31, did you think you were going to be here where you are at 37?

29:35No way. Where did you think you were going to be? I thought, all right, I'm going to earn out this deal. you know I get every year we vest us I was like I'm going to do two years of that deal which is what I did I did two years of the deal and then I'm going to go start another company and this time I'm going to start like a you know if this one sold for tens of millions the next one I'm going to do is going to be hundreds of millions or a billion dollar company I still didn't really understand what to do but the beauty of the situation was because I was earning out my deal I couldn't go start another tech company it would be like they'd look at me and be like what the hell are you doing?

30:06So I was forced to do things that didn't look competitive. I was forced out of my comfort zone. So all I knew was start a tech company, raise venture capital type of deal, and go for the big shot. When I was earning out the deal at Twitch, I couldn't do that. So I started this podcast. I was like, I'll do this for fun. And this podcast has turned into a phenomenal business and opened up all these doors. Then doing the podcast taught me about all these other types of businesses that I then went and was able to be like, oh, that's a great And that's a great way to do a business that doesn't require like getting super fucking lucky.

30:38That doesn't require like being the most competitive, you know, like most hardcore person. Like you just do the obvious and it works. So like that was one. I did the e-commerce business because I knew that that would not be seen as competitive, you know, by people at Twitch. I was like, oh, there's a business like, you know, it's kind of this like cute little like physical product selling, you know. It's like I created a brand, right? And I don't talk too much about what that brand is on here yet. I think I'll probably, by the way, I think I'll do the reveal of that maybe this year. You sell prosthetic legs?

31:10Is that what it is? Yes, something like that. So yeah, so basically I started doing other types of businesses, not by choice, but out of force because I was earning out the deal and I couldn't do another tech startup at the time. Today's episode is brought to you by HubSpot because using only 20 % of your business data is like dating somebody who only texts you in emojis. First of all, that's annoying. And second, you're missing a lot of the content. But that's how most businesses are operating today. They're only using 20 % of their data, unless you use HubSpot. That's when all your emails, your call logs, your chat messages, they turn into insights to help you grow your business because all that data makes all the difference.

31:45Learn more at HubSpot.com. Okay, next question. At 47, what do you think? What do you think? Have you made predictions on where you'll be? I think I'm just going to be doing creative projects. I think I'm going to be writing books and making movies and doing content content and I'm going to just be all in as a creative person and like business will be secondary to me. When will that shift happen? Now. It's already happening. It's already happened. Yeah. That's what I've been doing the last year. Um, and so like that happened now, I would say there's still like some vestiges of it because I still invest in businesses, but I don't run them.

32:22I don't start them and run them myself. So that shift has already happened. So do you think you're done starting businesses? I think so. I mean, I've basically only said like only if something like really just slaps me in the face something that like i can't like i'm not looking for a business to start which has been the mode i was in for 15 years and is that because you feel financially secure or because you feel emotionally secure uh i don't know like is it because i lay down on the couch for this part i don't know what i mean is like what i mean is like did you like discover this makes me happy this doesn't make me happy yeah yeah it's that this makes me happy uh i think i'm better at this i think i'm a b plus entrepreneur but i think i'm A plus at content.

33:01So like, why not do your A plus thing? I think doing content is now like an incredible way to make money. So like, you know, like we make great money here. Like you look at other content creators, they make a ton of money. So it's like, you don't have to do a company and then do content on the side. Like you could just do content as your main thing and make, you'll make all the money you want. Don't worry. And the last thing is, it's kind of like the test of what would 20 year old me think is dope. And I remember thinking this at the time was like, I think a cool version of a career is like these five, five-year arc, seven-year arc type of chapters where you just go do like really creative endeavors.

33:33And you're like, oh, I'm going to like, I'm going to go and try to like do standup for a few years. I'm going to do, I'm going to go try to make a TV show that I think is cool. That version of life, if I look back at my resume, I'm like, either I just kept starting businesses, like tech companies and our businesses. And I already have more money that I need. I made even more money that I didn't need versus like, no, I started going and trying to make dope stuff. Like I had the creative challenge of that. And yeah, I actually made that show and I made this musical and I made this book. And that to me seems more of an interesting life.

34:05And so I'm just more attracted to it. I think every, not every, I think many entrepreneurs go through this period. I mean, I've, I've, I'm, I'm in the thick of it too, where you, you, you try to get paid. You try to feel secure. You try to feel accepted. You get a little bit of that, or maybe you get a lot of that. And then you go through the phase of what I call the second mountain, which is like, what else is there? You know, and that's when you see a lot of people get obsessed with like beautiful things or art, in your case, content, which is basically art or just like interesting ideas where before you're like ideas, ideas are worthless.

34:39And then you're like, I don't know, man. Just talk about ideas. That is actually exciting or being around like pretty things. That's exciting. Can I give you an example of someone who I think is, has did both. So Joe Gabia. friend of the pod, one of our guys that we were a big fan of. So he started Airbnb. Obviously, colossal success, you know, like Grand Slam type of success. Like he's the 96th richest man in America. Yeah. And household name, blah, blah, blah. Great. Did that. Still pretty young, right? So he's like, all right, I'm not like dead. What am I going to do? What am I going to do now?

35:14And so he was like, what's the second mountain? So I remember going out to dinner with him once and he was telling me about what he was doing next. Do you even know what he did next after Airbnb? Do you know the next thing he did? Was that the museum? The architecture thing? No, no, no, no. He has a company. He has another startup. Do you know what his startup is? Oh, the ADU thing. Exactly. So he created this company. I don't know how you pronounce it. Samara or Samsara? I think it's Samara. Yeah, it's basically they raised$40 million and I believe what it is is you can spend $50 ,000 to$100 ,000 and they will give you an ADU, meaning a guest house, basically, in your backyard.

35:53Backyard, guest house, in-law unit, ADU, whatever you call it. And beautifully designed because he's a designer. So a lot of times these ADUs look very cookie cutter, cheap materials, poorly made. He made a really nice one. One that adds value to your house aside from whatever rental income you might be able to get out of it. So he creates this company and he's doing it. And when we went to dinner, I was like, dude, the product looks awesome. I want one of these in my backyard. But at the same time, like, dude, why are you doing this? You have all the money, like, you have all the money you'll ever need.

36:25You made it. Like, why do the grind again? Because he was like, you know, having to think about SEO again. And how do we, how are we going to grow this thing? And I was like, oh, dude, all the pain of doing a company. Why are you doing that? And, you know, he said something at the time. He said, you know, he said a good answer. But one of the things he said was like, you know, I want to prove that it wasn't luck. I want to prove that I could do it. And I remember in my head, I didn't have the guts to say it. But I was like, man, what a dumb answer. Like, there's nobody out there who's like, you know what, Joe, you just got lucky.

36:51And I'm like, and even if there were people who said that, who cares? But dude, nobody thinks that. Everybody only thinks Airbnb is incredible. What you guys did is absolutely incredible. But he had this kind of like, maybe I need to prove it again. Cause what else do I do? Where else do I get motivation? Right? I think most people have that feeling. I had that feeling. So I remember hearing that and being like, oh man, like, I wish I could like go into his brain and find that line of code and be like, oh, you have a bug here. Let me just pick bug, patch, boom, you're better now. But I did, yeah, whatever.

37:22So he, but now what is he doing? So he basically is, so he did that. And somewhere in the middle, he got pretty inspired by Doge. He's friends with Elon, like all that stuff. He goes and he joins the administration and he's, he starts with a very simple project, which was like the retirement process for government workers was like a six, six month to 18 month process. Like you just, you couldn't just retire, get your papers and move on with life. It was like, hold on, a guy needs to go into this cave and find your paperwork. And like, it'll be a year and we'll get back to you. And so he was like, I'm going to just solve this problem and I'm going to solve it well.

37:56I'm going to design a product. I'm going to make the government product stuff work well. And somehow that's turned into, he's now the chief design officer of the United States of America. And I'm like, wow, what an inspired second mountain, like creative endeavor, has an impact, grand scale, so cool. Like you created a role that didn't even exist, but it's so perfect for you. You know, like he's proud and he wants to serve. He's proud and he's extremely talented design. I'm like, that's the type of second mountain. That's awesome. I think his ADU company is cool. We'll be successful. I want one of them in my backyard, but I just felt like more inspired personally by the kind of the new thing that he's doing more so than when I heard, oh, I'm just going to do another business and try to create another billion dollar company, you know?

38:41Well, the other thing that he did was there's these famous designers, Charles and Ray Ames or Ames. Is it Ames? You know, they make the famous chair, the Ames chairs. Yeah. It was a husband and wife couple and they were prolific designers. And I think they lived in Arizona and they had like their home, which was famous. And it was full of like their prototyped furniture and things like that. And I think he also bought all of it and restored it just as a preservation thing. And so he's done a bunch of stuff. don't call me you guys will have to google this to get everything right but something like that where he's like preserving history of these two designers and so he's done a bunch of this like second mountain stuff that I think really I admire I'm I'm a very thoughtful guy I really admire like a lot of the way he approaches work and life I think he's a very kind of like principled and thoughtful person and I think I like that because I I find I'm less principled and thoughtful than I wish I was and so when you see somebody who's like vary on that end of the spectrum, it stands out.

39:42This is for the folks out there who have a business that does at least$3 million a year in revenue. Because around this point, that's when you're able to look up after being heads down for years building your company, and you realize two things. One, you've done something great, but you're still a long way from your final destination. And two, you look around and you realize, I am all alone. I've outrun my peers. Which means you're now making$10 million decisions alone, by yourself. And that is when mediocrity can creep in. My company, Hampton, we solved this problem by giving a room of vetted peers, of other entrepreneurs who are gonna hold you accountable, call you out on your nonsense and help show you the way.

40:21Because the fact is, is that there's only a tiny number of people in your town who know what you're going through and who have been there. And they're hard to find. The biggest risk is not failing. You have a company and it's working, you're gonna be fine. But the biggest risk is waking up 10 years from now and saying, shit, I barely grew in business and in life. And for people like you who are ambitious, wasted potential and regret is what we want to help you to avoid. We have made so many of these groups and we have a thousand plus members. And I know this stuff actually works. It can change your life.

40:52It changed mine and I know it will change yours. So check it out, joinhampton.com. I think that this is, I personally am quite inspired by this thing that you're saying. Now, I will be extra inspired if you actually follow through on this for a couple of years, because it sounds like amazing now. And if you follow through on this, you will be my hero. And the idea being, you're kind of, in other words, saying you're retiring a little bit from business and focused on purely on creative, which that's not entirely true, because the creative things you do will make money. But you're not like seeking money for money, money's sake, which is what most people do when they go into business.

41:28And I think that that's really, really cool. And I think it's inspiring. and when you say these things, you sound A, more confident and B, more happy than you have in the past. Does that sound right? 100%. I have this framework called your last dollar. Have I told you this? Is that the one where you have that really cool line of you've already earned the last dollar that you're going to spend? Yeah, you've already earned the last dollar you're ever going to spend. So there comes a point because people think about these ideas like I want to be rich. How rich? What's rich? What's rich to you? I want to be wealthy.

41:58What's wealthy? I want to be financially free. Free to do what? What are you not free to do today? Maybe you could actually do a lot of those things today. So I think people are money is this very big motivator. You're ashamed to talk about it. And then you actually don't put a lot of thought into it. And man, what a shame because it's driving a lot of your decisions. I'm going to ask you a question and don't say a number. Only say what you're covered with. But for example, for me, Rich is, I define it as two ways. One, your ability to spend 3 % of your liquid net worth. So So if you have$10 million, you can spend$300 ,000 a year.

42:31Another way I define rich is your passive income. So just from your investments pays for your life. So do you have a definition for yourself on what rich is? Yeah, similar. So basically I said, if I want to spend half a million dollars a year of burn rate, which I wasn't, when I came up with this number, I was spending maybe five times less than that. I was just like, I talked to them all about, what do you spend? What do you spend? What's kind of like if I went crazy? Okay, no, I don't care about boats and planes. So don't worry about that side of things. You know, but just like, give me a sense.

42:56It's like, I do care about this type of shit and I don't want to have to worry about this. And like, if we go to Disneyland, I want to do, what's that thing you do where you don't have to wait in line? I like that. I want to go to the, you know, like I just don't want to be able to do all that. And I don't care about some of these other things for now. Let's just assume that to be true. And I wanted to live in California. So I rounded all the way up and I said, if I'm spending half a million dollars a year as my like personal life burn rate, what do I need to be making in passive income or the passive gains of my investments to where that's like not an issue at all.

43:27Like as long as my passive earnings are higher than my active burn, I'm free. I don't have to prioritize money. And then you apply even some factor on top of that of like safety net, cushion, big swings, whatever. And I came up with a number that was like, cool, that's the last dollar I ever need to make. And actually this came because I met other people. I did an episode of this podcast with my brother-in-law. You can go see it, Sanjeev Chopra. He's a real estate guy. and he's done incredibly well. I was sitting in his like Vegas, like mega mansion type of thing. And, you know, he had just come home from driving to go see a property he owns in like Idaho or something.

44:05And he drove back and he got back at 11. And then he was like up at 6 a.m. the next day to like take his kids to school. And I was like, dude, you're really like grinding. And he had this goal of like, I want to make all this money and I want to be able to buy the Raiders. I want to do all this cool dreams, right? But I was like, the truth is, and at one point he was talking about like, oh, I want to leave, you know, my dad didn't kind of leave me. He didn't support me when I wanted to go do business. I want to leave each of my kids, like I think he said some crazy number, like$20 million. And I was like, dude, your kids don't need$20 million when they're 21 years old to go start a business.

44:37You'll actually like poison their entrepreneurial career if you do that. But like, I get the ethos. You want to support your kids. I like that. Okay, I totally get what you're saying. And he wasn't like, it's not like he was fixed on those. These are just things that were bubbling up in his thoughts. And I just remember telling him, dude, you've already earned the last dollar you're ever going to spend and your kids are ever going to spend. So you're now throwing good hours after bad dollars. And that stuck with me. I was like, cause I'm trading good hours. I'm trading good energy right now. Life energy, right?

45:05I'm trading good hours for bad dollars. So I don't need that dollar. It has zero utility in my life at this point. And so that thought's there. Now, am I perfect? Am I a monk? Have I like, do I just not invest in things? Do I not have the itch sometimes like, oh, we could make this. No, I have that age. I have that thought. I do make investments. But so far, so good as far as like, I'm going to do projects now where the main criteria cannot be because I think it will be successful or it'll make money. It's like, I'm only going to do it because I think it's fun and interesting and a challenge to do if I'm actively the one building it, working on it.

45:39I think that's a massive turn that you've made because I think that like, I've known you for this whole time and there was this period of like you wanting to be the man which we all wanted to be the man you know in silicon valley that was like the point of us being there it was like going to hollywood and seeing like who's gonna get a role right and uh then there was the period of like okay i like have a hit but like i still don't necessarily feel why am i not why am i not prominent like you know like why like i i've gotten some wealth but why am i not king you know or you also see that there's so many more levels and you get on this treadmill which i i think i compare myself to others way more than you and so i'm far more guilty of this of like more more more you know someone says um uh i think it was in the movie wall street where they're like how much is enough and the guy's like oh i know how much is enough it's more that's how much that's how much it's enough but then you come with this other side of it where you're like nope it is i know what it is enough and I have enough.

46:38And now I need to pursue like truth and happiness and all this wonderful stuff. And I think that's like a beautiful message. I think that's an amazing message. And I think, frankly, I think I need to hear it. And I think if I need to hear it, I think so many other people do need to hear it because I think I'm far more a normie in terms of self-comparison or comparison to others and jealousy and all that stuff. And so it's very refreshing to hear you say that. And you sort of, I think your Uncle Sean schtick is kind of lame, but in this case, you are my uncle Sean. Like this is the, this is straight to the heart.

47:11You're 36, you're 37 years old, but you got to be at least 45 to be an uncle. Okay. I'm trying to grow this gray beard. You're 37. You're still like, you're still like a child. I'm too old to be a hot guy. I'm too young to be a cool old uncle. You're not an uncle. What am I supposed to be doing right now? Yeah. You're, you're, you're in the awkward middle, but in this case, I do feel like you are like, frankly, teaching me. I feel like this is a bit of a mentor-mentee situation. And for that, I'm very thankful because I do think this is quite magical. And I think if you're listening to this, and I think if you're 24 years old, you think, Sean, you're an idiot.

47:46What do you know? I need to get rich. I need to do this. You're so fortunate that you get to do this. Like, what the hell? And to that, I say, go and find it out for yourself. But I do think that I've seen, you know, both of us have seen a lot of wealthy people, a lot of successful people. What you are saying is 100 % the best path of like, get what you can, and then reflect on, do you actually need more and pursue what truly makes you happy versus more, more, more, more, more? Because I'm telling you for a fact that virtually 100 % of the people that go down that route are unhappy. Things that I'm sure of and things that I'm not sure of.

48:19Here's my list. Things I'm sure of. In your 20s, if you're smart and ambitious, just prioritize getting around the smartest and most ambitious people you can that you like to hang out with, right? You're going to like them too. Prioritize things that sound more interesting rather than things that sound more likely to succeed. And be cool if something gives you a lot of learning and not a lot of earning, because don't worry, you got time. That's one thing I know about my 20s that I think is pretty universal advice. It wasn't just for me. Another piece of universal advice, I think that's in the early entrepreneur phases is like, dude, it's okay if it takes 10 years because you only got to get rich once.

48:55And at the time, sure, dude, I wish it happened earlier. And I did not enjoy going over 12. And I did not enjoy that it took 10 years. but like that's fine to get rich at 30. It's actually like no problem. I actually, that works really well and it's very hard to predict if you're going to get your first business idea to work or get rich when you're 24 years old but if you commit and you're going to iterate and you're going to be good at learning, you will probably get there. You flip your odds from like 10 % chance of success to 80, 90 % chance of success which is as good as you're going to get.

49:25Yeah, as long as the timeline is long enough, at least 10 years it will work. Exactly. So I'm pretty sure of those two things. I'm also pretty sure that you should be more thoughtful and more honest with yourself about money and what you're actually going to prioritize. And if there is ever a stopping point or not a stopping point where you just stop making money, but you stop prioritizing that as like the decision-making thing of what you're going to do next with your time and energy. So I think people should definitely think more about it. I find very few people that are actually thoughtful about this and have done the kind of like asking themselves enough questions to be clear.

49:59Now, will everybody land at the same answer as me? No. I think there's tons of people who actually want more. They're going to affect change. They do want to own the Raiders. They do want to, like, be a Titan. And that is the thing that's going to make them happiest. It's just not what it was going to make me the happiest. I had to ask myself, like, it's like I'd been ordering this burger. And it was like, yo, like, do I even like pickles? Like, why do I keep ordering this burger with pickles? Like, I actually don't like pickles. Get this stuff off. And so I had kind of like, kind of just borrowed off the shelf goals and getting more clear about like, what actually would be a dope life to me?

50:33And for me, it's this like every five, seven years, I do a bunch of creative endeavors. I make shit. I'm going to go try to like succeed in these different areas. The variety is the spice of life type of shit. That's me. But like, that wouldn't be it for someone else. That part is not universal. And like, making art is not universal. So like, you know, that part, I wouldn't really put on anybody else. I kind of feel bad that I gave you a hard time with Uncle Sean. I didn't mean it that way. I was only teasing. But I want to... Don't worry. No offense. The reason I want to take that back... I'm wearing a Mickey Mouse shirt, bro.

51:04No, let me say... I want to be serious. The reason I want to take that back is basically, if you want to get rich, go listen to Sean's previous episode that was titled How to Get Rich Without Getting Lucky. That's virtually perfect for everyone who has less than a million dollars. But if you have more than, let's say,$500 ,000, if you make more than$250 ,000 a year and you want to be happy, the last, the second half of this episode is the number one thing you have to listen to, because I'm going through exactly what you were discussing now. And this made me feel better. And this has inspired me.

51:32And so the second half of this episode is probably one of the best things that I think you've said all year. And I don't know if you made up this second mountain thing, or that's a book or something like that. I think I've been feeling that way. And I heard it via, I heard that phrase, I think, via a book. I think there's a book called Second Mountain, which everyone has said is great. Yeah, so I think what me and you are talking about is like second mountain stuff. This wouldn't have been the right message for us when we were on our first mountain, like you're saying. Dude, when I was 23, it was how do I make$2 ,000 per month?

52:02That's all I need. Just tell me what to do. I saw you come to my office and you did a copywriting one-day workshop with Neville and you guys made$10 ,000 and I thought I just watched Ocean's 13. I thought I saw a man rob the bank and I could not believe what just happened in front of me. And I felt like such a loser that Sunday that I was like, dude, that guy just came in here and just talked to like 30 people about copywriting. It was cool. They were happy. And he made 10 grand for that this Saturday. And I just looked at myself like, you're a little piece of shit. If you, what are you doing?

52:36You don't even have an idea of how to do that. I went and taught a copywriting course and made a lot of money. Took me 10 years, but later I was like, oh yeah, that's cool. a substantial amount more in a weekend. So it kind of like became full circle. But like, you're right. The first mountain mindset is so different, right? And it should be. It's supposed to be, I think. Can I ask you one thing? Have you ever met a young person that tries to do all the wise like Yoda shit? The like, I'm already past success and money and status and I'm like on this and it honestly kind of disgusts me. I'm like, bro.

53:12I'm like, can you go get drunk and try to pick up a girl? Exactly. Paying the dues. You don't just get to skip all that stuff and be enlightened. Like, you know, that comes later. I have this, there's a kid who I know that like, I like the kid, he's awesome. And it's, I don't know why, it's probably a good thing that he's already like wisened up. But there's something about it that like, it pisses me off inside. And I can't, I'm just like, dude, you can't skip that. Go be stupid. You can't be smart before you're stupid. You gotta be stupid before you're smart. Like there's an order of the universe here.

53:46And I feel like he's like kind of spitting on that order, that way of doing things. Yeah, man, I do meet people like that. Can we, before we leave, can I create a new segment real quick called Life Happens? Yeah, what is it? So I wanted to know what you did for Halloween. Did you, it was a quick life corner. I was just thinking, did you do Halloween and did you dress up this year? And then I also wanted to know, I just have this hunch that you are great at Halloween and that you've had some epic Halloween, either traditions or costumes in the past. And I just needed to answer that question. So what did you do for this Halloween?

54:21This Halloween, I have a two-year-old and a three-week-old kid. And we went to my mother-in-law's apartment building in New York City. They probably have 400 units in the apartment building. I wore suspenders. You did an indoor trick-or-treating? Dude, it was the best. You go from floor to floor. Literally, you could hit 400 houses. You know what I mean? We're efficient. Just like Halloween is meant to be. And it's a very fancy building. And I didn't even buy it. Well, yeah. It was lovely. And I didn't have to buy a costume. I just wore my overalls with no shirt and one of my cowboy hats. They thought you bought that for Halloween?

54:57I already owned it. I already owned it. I wore my overalls with no shirt with cowboy boots and cowboy hats. How did you get it to look so used, so pre-worn? And my little girl was a mermaid and we went from door to door and it just looked fantastic. Do you have a philosophy, a framework of Halloween? Like, for example, I have one, which is like Halloween is about looking cute, not looking realistic. So, you know, I remember one time somebody dressed up when we were 21. Like we went on a booze cruise for Halloween and they dressed up as a bushel of grapes. And it was a great costume, looked super realistic.

55:27They had balloons all over their body, but it was, they had such a bad time. And I remember just learning that lesson. like never ever try to be realistic we're gonna our future it was hard this year because my wife had just given birth and so she wasn't like we're not gonna like do a bunch of crazy stuff but our future costumes are gonna be group costumes and so my wife has big hair and so next year she's gonna be slash and i'll be axl rose and like my kids will look like little rock stars but no we're gonna do we do um uh we're gonna do themes because i think they're just darling and we trick-or-treated in new york city that's how new york kids do it building the building which is absolutely insane Do you remember growing up as a kid watching movies of like 12-year-olds like Richie Rich or whatever like in the inner city and like thinking like, oh my God, that's crazy.

56:06I was around those kids. It was awesome. And my kid is going to be one of those kids, which is crazy. What did you do? We dressed up. We were astronauts, which was the first good year in a while because my wife does the matching thing. And she always like stiffs me with like, you're – yeah, my daughter wants to be Elsa. So you're like Kristoff. I'm like, who the hell is Kristoff? or like, you know, you're like, you're Olaf and I'm just a giant like snowman. It's like, I don't want to do all this. So I've been getting screwed lately. This year was better, but I dodged a bullet. I got it. I'm not going to lie.

56:38I dodged a bullet. So I was going to come up with a costume and I was like, you know what? Maybe I'll do fireman this year. My kid loves fire trucks. He wanted to be a truck. So I was like, oh, you could be the truck and I'll be the, you know, semi-sexy fireman. And I was like, I'm going to do that. And I'm so glad I didn't do it because you know why? When we were out, we bumped into my kids' friends from soccer, and their dads are, one dad is a fireman, and then the other kid's dad is a police officer, actually. And they wore their suits. No, but he wasn't even dressed up because he's like, I'm a man, I don't do this.

57:14And I was like, if I had dressed up as a little goofy fireman and I met this real fireman who's a friend, I was like, that's like the biggest L I could have took. Just man to man, that's the biggest L you could take. I'm going to dress up as the loser version of you. The wannabe version of you. It's like if he dressed up as a podcaster and jumped and bumped into me, I'd be like, oh, that's cool. He lists this to the pod, by the way. I hope he hears this. Dude, also, that guy, you may be a cop, and thank you for your service. You may be a fireman, but thank you for your service. But if you don't dress up, come on, bro.

57:49Like, that's lame. I saw the video or I saw a photo of what your wife gave to your children, like a gift basket like they woke up one morning and they had like a presents she's a good mom great mom she goes over the top man she's on top of it that was wild yeah she does that for every holiday doesn't she yeah she does that looked like it took like eight hours yeah she like just sacrifices like full nights of sleep like pulls an all-nighter and gives them something she loves arts and crafts anyways it's like you know it's not like it's terrible for her but she just wants them to have these kind of like magical moments and like the spirit of holidays which growing up I didn't have, which kind of explains why I also don't feel the same way she does about holidays.

58:30And your eldest is just now old enough where she's probably or no, your middle is old enough now. He's probably like understanding traditions. Oh yeah, yeah. They get it. They like it. They anticipate it. They're excited for it. So it works. Dude, that's awesome. Alright, well, great wholesome episode. Oh, by the way, we're about to enter Elf and the Shelf season, so like which is it's like, what's the thing called for Navy SEAL? buds this is like my wife's version of buds training or whatever buds hell week dude this is a hell month for her i will never do elf on the shelf i i it's so you are a wise and smart individual you're telling me and of course it's easy for me to say now let's see if i actually stick with it but you're telling me that this elf is supposed to be watching the children at all times big brother you know let's just call it palantir that's what it's gonna be it's i'm just gonna have carp on the shelf yeah carp on the shelf peter teal's in the house he knows exactly what you did better be contrarian this year yeah fuck on the elf on the shelf even contrarian or consensus is the new naughty or nice

59:36i just want a little like a little doll of peter teal and it just you click a button and it like says, well, um, uh, well, um, uh.

59:48Oh, it comes with the authentic stutter? That's incredible. Well, um, uh, well, you, uh, uh, yeah. All right, that's it. That's the pod. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like my days off. On the road, let's travel, never looking back. Hey, let's take a quick break. I want to tell you about a podcast that you could check out. It is called The Science of Scaling by Mark Roberge. He was the founding CRO of HubSpot, and he's a guest lecturer at Harvard Business School. The guy's smart. And he sits down every week with different sales leaders from cool companies like Klaviyo and Vanta and OpenAI.

1:00:28And he's asking about their strategies, their tactics, and how they're growing their companies as head of sales or chief revenue officer. if you're looking to scale a company up, if you're a CRO or a head of sales that's looking to level up in your career, I think a podcast like this could be great for you. Listen to The Science of Scaling wherever you get your podcasts.