Laird Hamilton: The Big Wave Surfer Who Built a +$10 Million Business Empire

31:41It's all, everything's about location. If you're, if you're, if people are trying to buy things and for value or keep value or have an increased value, it's all about location. I mean, you can always change the house. You can rebuild the house, but you can't change where it is. And so I think, you know, that's one thing about when you grew up in Hawaii and you live in an environment where people work all year to save up to come on vacation for one week, and then you live in that environment. You kind of, I mean, if you don't, if you have your head screwed on correctly, you realize what, how fortunate that is, you know, that, that that's a fortunate thing to be that the, and those, and that those are to be cherished those places that, yeah, that people seek out to just, you know, be able to go there for a week and you live there.

32:27That's a pretty, that's a pretty fortunate thing, but also that you, you need to realize that that's, that that means it's a special place. You know, I always see videos of these athletes coming and going. How many days a week are you actually having people come and do those workouts in the pool? Well, Gabby does her, she has training in the morning. It depends on the time of the year. You know, normally most of this is in the summertime because you have football basketball a lot of times it's off season guys come you know I have uh just I'm connected with a lot of different athletes and a lot of different coaches and a lot of different physios and so people you know guys get hurt um and then they're coming out of an injury and then they'll send them to come see to see you know to see us uh are you charging them or is this just like you're just doing it for fun no it's no because it's if If you charge people, then it's the dynamic changes.

33:23Good job. I like to have that sign that says, we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, that kind of thing. I think that that's a better relationship. I mean, we don't have to. We don't need to. So it allows us, we have the luxury to be able to not have the charge because we're able to, there's other ways to earn a living. And so, um, but that does set up a really nice environment. I have, like, I have a young, uh, a young man that's been living with us and, and training, training, um, and learning about training. He's becoming, you know, very, uh, versatile and just advanced in because he has such exposure.

34:03uh and so like he'll i'll we'll get guys to come in and guys that want to get get work you know worked with i'll have him and we have other other trainers with xpt and we have other people that we know that hey if you if somebody needs a trainer and they and they want to run through a lot of this the stuff that we do we'll we'll you know what do we say we have people for that but yeah we have people for that that do that and then the rest of it you know normally we kind of have a communal training, uh, you know, like on, on, on certain days of the week, we have some kind of regulars that kind of come and train on those days.

34:40Uh, you know, we do like, it'll be maybe lift lifting and, and stuff and dry land stuff on, on, uh, you know, like Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, and then Tuesday, Thursday, Saturdays is, is can be the pool stuff depending on, on, uh, on who it is and what we, what we do. And it's, it's not a lot. I mean, there's at times there could be a fair amount of people um you know the the the stuff that we do does weed out some of the people just because it's you know we're we're we're here to work and and it's and it's uh and we have a you know a big probably the most important piece of it is this community right that we have a little that we have a really nice community that that that's what you realize that we all are looking for, right?

35:25We're all looking for a little tribe to belong to. I mean, that's, I would, I would, uh, blame, I wouldn't say blame, but I'd say that that was part of the success of something like CrossFit, that it was really had less to do with the work workout itself as it did that you were part of a tribe and you had a community and people that were like-minded that were training with you and so on. So I think that's a big piece of it. I think that, that, uh, you know, that, that we need that. I mean, listen, some days you're just down and you're like, Hey, you know what? I don't feel like doing anything today.

35:55And then somebody's out there. Okay. Ready to go. And then you're like, okay, let's go. And then you just, so, you know, and vice versa, they might not be in you are. And so I think that we, we kind of lift each other up. I think that that's part of, I mean, we humans are communal creatures and I think we operate well that way, as long as we have like-minded people. Um, I was looking at like some old photos, uh, of, of folks in your pool. I think there was like a whole bunch of, and yeah, you had a whole bunch of basketball players, like Joe Kim Noah, Grant Hill, a few other people who, who have you worked out with back there that has, uh, put you in awe of, of their fitness or their athletic ability?

36:35I mean, listen, I get so many crazy guys. I think, I mean, my problem is I probably have a skewed bar like my, you know, I don't cause I'm with normally I'm always with all these freaks right so it's a little bit like hard to out freak the freak you know like you when you got you know i got when you guys got you got you know guys like chris mccaffrey or or or you know or jaylen or i mean just you just have the level of athlete that you have is i mean i think there's some there's always you know the the the the people that surprise you are probably people you haven't heard of that, that come there, that, that have a certain mindset, because some of the pool stuff that we do can be, it's stressful, you know?

37:20And so sometimes, you know, you, you, you'd think you'd get this big, super strong guy and he freaks out and then you get some kind of more frail, you know, lady that just has a, you know, mental giant and can just handle, you know, being in the ice and drowning in the deep end. And, you know, so it doesn't, I think it's pretty, uh, that's why it's kind of neutralizing. There's a, a neutralizing aspect to the environment because it's, first of all, you're always going to have somebody that, you know, you're always going to, you're always going to, you're always going to have somebody that can out you do you in something, right?

38:00You can outdo them, they can outdo you. And so our approach is more about you finding your own barriers and then trying to lift those up right you try to you try to and and don't use other people as a reference to you i think that's where we run in trouble you know we get in trouble as you start comparing you get over there and you're like okay that guy's doing this and which what do they say comparison is the death of happiness i'm not sure but like the thief of joy something like that man i i've always hated that phrase when they say comparisons of Thief of Joy, because I'm like, yeah, that's true.

38:32I shouldn't compare myself, but I love to compete. And so like - Well, that's different though, but that's different. That's different. Comparing and competing, yeah. Like I like seeing guys in business and I'm like, this person's doing this revenue. They're at 50 million. I'm like, oh, if that dumb ass could do that, I definitely could do 70. Let's crush them. Or like, I've got a joke. I'm like, people are like, oh, you got to let go of that grudge. And I'm like, this grudge fuels everything I do. I've like, I like the reason I like work out hard is to like prove my ex-girlfriend from high school that like you were worthy.

39:05Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like everything I do is because everything I do is because of a grudge. I'm like, rage is the greatest fuel on earth. And so when people say like comparisons, the thief of joy, I'm like, oh, I get so much joy proven like these idiots wrong. And like letting a 20 year comment sit on my back for those years about how I wasn't like, you know, fit enough or successful enough. Like, I love that stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, but you will. But you know what? It's interesting because that's I will say because I can relate to that. I mean, listen, a lot of what I've done is because of that.

39:37Like so. But then at a certain point, then you get to this thing and then you're like, OK, then what? Then at some point you achieve the thing you're trying to do. You prove your point and then you're sitting there going, OK, now what? And then you're like, OK, do I have to make up a new one or maybe I can create motivation out of, out of success or contentment or something versus, so I think there is too, I think that can be, I know for myself personally, I've gone through, you know, being driven and motivated, uh, to achieve certain things because of, you know, frustration and proving the work to the world and, and, you know, and all those things that I went through that drove me, but then, but then you achieve it and then you're like, okay, now what, you know, what am I going to do now, like now how I'm going to adjust to be able to continue.

40:25And so at least in my, I can say, you know, and listen, if you're a competitor, you're a competitor. That's just a vicious, like for me, I think I'm, I am such a vicious competitor that, that I would, I almost, I can't, I can barely actually even compete. Cause I just, because of, because in, in a real, if you look at real if you look at competition in nature and the brutality of it like the real like the real thing not just these contrived things of like the real like for real yeah then you're like okay well maybe i better figure out how to constructively vent that stuff do you does that does that does that carry over to to business too i mean are you talking uh i think mike i think I think his name is Mike, your new CEO.

41:17Are you like, you know, we need, I want this much profit. We need this much growth. Does that carry over to business as well? Yeah. I mean, not, not that, not that way. Not, I mean, it, you know, I mean, it, maybe it should, but it, not that I think it's mine is a more, you know, mine is a patient thing. Like I have a, like, I, you know, my favorite term is the victory through attrition. Yeah. Just be a cockroach. that's like like like the last guy standing like i'm all about that like you can be like yeah yeah yeah you can have your little wins your little wins and your little wins and all great but i'm talking about like at the end when you're the only one left on the battlefield and everybody's laying on the ground then you don't even have to be any good you don't even have to be good you're just undisputed you're the guy because so and i think i think for me i feel like and and i'm looking at the greatest competition is life, right?

42:17The greatest competition is life. Like you want to talk about the real game, the game, the real game, like, cause all these other things, they're games there, right. But the real game, the big game is life. The big game is, you know, is like the quality of like, at the, like relationship father, you know, how like your life like that's the big game that's the real game that's why i said when i talk about the spoke i go yeah business that's one spoke make sure it's nice and tight good cool but if you're all there then you got these giant holes in the other spot i'm like sorry lost the game already but you you you've not always been that way have you i think i read some old stuff where like i think your wife filed for divorce and you went at one point and you guys like Like you've thankfully made it work.

43:08I think at 01. Yeah. I think you, I don't, I don't remember if I read that you had a drinking problem, but I think you said that, uh, you wish you had told your younger self to quit drinking earlier. So I don't know if that was like a problem or not. Uh, like I know that you, and if I just were just to stereotype you, I'm like, I bet you were like a wild guy. And anyone, if I'm stereotyping a surfer who like goes out hard and does everything hard, I'm like, I'm sure I bet you picked some of your vices, uh, with that same, or you use that same energy sometimes toward vices. When did, were you kind of like, uh, you, you weren't always this wise, I'm sure.

43:39And what made that switch? Well, no, I mean, well, okay. Let's, let's be, let's be clear that for sure work, right. Sure. Work in process, work in process now, work in process then. I mean, I, I always, you know, love sleep. I always like, even within my, I mean, I, the thing of like my thing about drinking, Like I loved, I love wine. I drank, I, that was when I always said I had, I had two French habits because I worked with a French company for 20 years and I, my two French habits were espresso and Pinot Noir. And then it was like, and, and, and like everything I do, I have a tendency to do it, you know, in excess.

44:22Like if one's good, then two is better. So that's the mentality. And so in a way, but as far as like, as far as kind of my, I mean, listen, I first, I First of all, I would have never first. I never Gabby and I would never have gotten to be together if I didn't have a certain if I didn't have a certain, I'd say, calculation, morality, values. I mean, there's certain things that were that I've had my whole life. Right. That it since I was since I was young, it wasn't like I got them. I had I had the basis of it. And then that's been just a process of refinement again. Oh, loose spoke like, hey, you know what?

44:58this, this, this drinking things an issue because I don't have real power over it. I want to prove to myself. I do. I come from a, you know, I, I always say I come from a long line alcoholics, but we all do. I think it's a human, you know, I, I always say being alcoholics, like being a surfer, there's no one that doesn't love surfing. Well, there's no human being that doesn't actually like alcohol. It's just whether you drink or not. I'm a, I'm 10 years sober too. I loved it. So I got 15. I got 15. But my thing was like, you know, my mom said to me once when I was a kid, she said, if you can't be true to yourself, you can't be true to anyone else.

45:35And so I thought, let me see if I say, hey, I can stop drinking anytime. And then the next day I drank or the next week or the next month, then I really don't have a lot of power over it. Right. So then I want to have. So now I want to be like, I want to have some power over it. And so that was a discipline thing, too. And you know what, what I saw also said, all the dumbest things I ever did were when I was drinking that all the stupidest things I ever I've ever done. Usually some alcohol was somehow involved in there because because like it says in the bottle impairs your motor skills. So so let's not forget.

46:10So, and so in, in, in, in a way, uh, those things like the, the, in my relationship, the Rocky times in the relationship, those refined, you know, and, and, and motivate you to make changes, you know, all those things. Okay. The drink in the, you know, like just all these different, these things that, and there's things I'm still working on and probably will always be, but that's a continuation of, of trying to, to, uh, get better, like get, get, get better and not. And, and, and which means that you're saying, Hey, there's things that you think you could do better or you could be better, or you could make changes or you could, you know, whatever, whatever those are.

46:52I mean, they're, you know, what do they say about sin? You know, let he, without sin cast the first stone. No one seems to be able to throw one because everybody falls short. So, I mean, it's about being honest too. like being honest with yourself and being like, okay, what is it? What is, what do I, what is it? Which, which thing? And then you know what? You just start eliminating. You start, okay, let's work on that one. Let's work on this one. And then, and then as you go. And so that's, I mean, I'm in that, I'm in that, in that process and, and, and, and you get success. You get, you get, you get success.

47:29I mean, I use, I used to use the guilt from drinking to make me feel motivated about training. So I'd be like, oh yeah, I can drink Pinot Noir, cup, you know, bottle, two bottle, three bottles, no problem. Eat dinner, go to sleep, wake up 5am train like an animal. What's the problem? No problem. Where's the problem? I don't see a problem. You can train hungover. Oh yeah. Like an animal. Oh, fuck that. You have puke in the ocean using that, using that guilt, using that guilt and prove like a proof, like all proof. Let me show you what a man I am, you know, I'll show you what I can do. And so I hope your pool had a good filter, man.

48:07But, but like I said, my drinking problem had to do with wine only never hard, you know, I mean, okay, not never hard booze, but I was pretty smart about that. But, uh, but even within that, I had, you know, there was some sort of control, but I'm, I'm just speaking in general as a thing to refine, right. As you go, let's just try to, let's try to continue to, to, to polish the stone you're kind of going like one path down this longevity thing and healthy living thing that i love but i love freak shows i love like people who are just oddballs and a guy we had on here one time his name is brian johnson have you seen brian johnson from blueprint i mean he's like total freak show when it comes to longevity and i love that people are brave enough to do what he's doing because like you can always learn cool people doing extremes isn't he blending his food every day i think gabby did a podcast on him is that the guy he did he's doing all time yeah that's basically he's like everything yeah he's like i'll like give you i'll give you like the the cliff notes but basically he's uh probably close to a billionaire so he started a company that he sold so he's got plenty of income and money to like be playing around but basically he's like i'm gonna become the most tested person on planet earth and i'm gonna try to he goes i'm to try to decrease my biological age faster than my chronological age, which obviously is going to be impossible at one point.

49:27But he was like, let's just see if I can make my body younger, even though my age gets older. And so he does crazy amounts of tests where he's doing tests weekly, and he's spending millions of dollars doing it. And he blogs and documents it all on his website blueprint. But some of the crazy stuff that he's doing, he's like, well, my tests are showing that this vegan diet or vegan lifestyle is working well for me. Therefore, I am only going to eat these same three things every day. And he measures the calories down to the... He's like, it's got to be this amount of calories, this servings, the workout has to be this.

49:59And I'm like, I love that weirdos like that exist because we're going to be able to learn some cool stuff from him. Have you been paying attention to that? And what do you think about those people that are a little bit less... I mean, I don't know if he's like... I think at one point, You said, um, science follows intuition with him. It's like, let's go science and let's see how that makes me feel. Uh, but have you been paying attention to that? And what's your, what's your take? Well, Gabby did a show on, on Brian and, uh, a podcast went and interviewed him. And so we, her and I had a conversation when she kind of filled me in about some of the stuff that he was doing.

50:30Did she go to his house? She did. Yeah, she didn't. She ate some of his, she ate some of his goulash. She ate some of his, his blended, yeah, his blended, blended. And I mean, listen, you know, when you chew food, when you chew food, you create saliva that you create enzymes in your mouth that go down with the food to help digest the food. And one of the worst, if one of the ways, if you really want to become like allergic or have a, a, an allergy against something is just eat that alone every day, all day. But that gets into, I'm into a whole, you know, I'm into, I guess for me, I just feel like you can't hack your way around biology in my world of my thought.

51:17And it is interesting. I think you can use hacking to support work. You know, I think, first of all, I think in the diet, one of the most important things is diversity. I think that's one of the most important. And I mean, the problem is, is it's hard to, to not get bombarded by a bunch of, you know, things that aren't good for you as well. But, you know, through that, so it'll be, it'll be, it would be interesting to, to, I mean, Gabby would be a better person to have the conversation about, but I am always interested in watching. I think there's so much, uh, I don't know. He, I mean, I do appreciate that he's doing like the guys going through, going through it.

51:58But, but as far as, you know, what, what, you know, we're, what we are and what we're doing and what we need, I'll be interested, you know, I'll be interested to see, uh, first of all, what, what it, what it, you know, what it does. I, um, I think more as an entertainment, that's what I'm saying. Like, I love that. Like, uh, I don't know if you pay attention to fighting, but you know who, uh, Nate, do you watch fighting like MMA? I don't, I don't watch a lot of it. I know I have a bunch of guys I know that do it. Yeah, I mean, I always say I love a freak show. I like fighting, boxing. I mean, I love just like some crazy event.

52:39What do you think about wrestling? WWE wrestling? WWE. I mean, I love that stuff. Do you watch that? What's that? Oh, yeah. Well, my friend of mine brought me to it. I never even watched it, and I have a friend that really is into it. And so he he he brought me and I go with him. But I only I live vicariously through him because I'm amazed just how how into it he is, how much he knows about it. But it's just a grown man soap opera. Soap opera. Soap opera. No, it's fun. I love that. You know, it goes to our deep. It serves a purpose. Oh, yeah, it does. It goes right to that. I want to see some guy in his underwear.

53:18It's like fighting and arguing about shit. You know what I mean? Like, let's just like I just like I like me. I like weirdos. I like freaks. It's like, let it be. Well, and also people from outside, really, they think they actually think that the audience thinks that everything what's going on is real. They don't realize that everybody in the audience knows exactly what's going on. And they're just participating in the whole show. And then it's all part of the whole thing. It's pretty. So, yeah, the humans are. I mean, listen, humans are entertaining and, you know, just watch them when you're like I I have this like image in my head of what you are.

53:54and like you running your businesses, I'm like, is he like totally out of the picture on a day-to-day basis and just talks to the CEO once a month? And I was like, actually, what's that? What would that look like? Like when we got on here, your wife helped set up the camera. Are you even using a computer or a phone on a daily basis? Are you totally detached? Yeah, no, I use a phone. I'm not a social media guy. I don't spend very, I mean, listen, The phone for me is communication, weather, weather and news and new stuff that that. And when I say news, I mean more like investigation stuff like. But I mean, listen, I'm what's investigation stuff.

54:37Just trying to understand what the truth is about whatever and everything. So they just it just I'm I go into if I'm interested in something, if that, you know, if I'm interested in some political thing, I like to look like understand. exactly from my own, not just take the, the advice of people that are telling you about it, but actually like understand the real stuff. So I have a tendency to, but I'm just using, like I said, the thing for a tool. So I, I hardly, I hardly use it. I talk to Jason all the time. I talked to, uh, you know, Blair to peril, uh, the lady, you know, the lady that's, that's running that right now.

55:16Yeah. I'm, I'm in communication with these because, because it's first of all it's got my name on it so it you know it's it's has to do with my brand and and we're just we're vested in the in it and interested in it so we're i mean all this the the i mean i'm also yeah i mean we're we're we're we're we're we spend you know we're we're multiple times a week if not every single day i'm communicating with those brands uh and and you know either discussing okay promotional this or or product development or you know whatever whatever yeah we're we're so I um I uh I I think I told you I I had started this company and sold it and uh when I was 30 so I was able to like uh financially get some some some really nice security there yeah and I look at the type of life that you live where um so I also I split time between Austin and New York.

56:16My wife's from New York. And so we spend there all the time. And I have a handful of projects that I'm working on. I got a company with the CEO that runs it. So a bit similar-ish to what you're doing. And God willing, some of them will be huge. What I'm curious about, because there aren't that many people in the situation where I want to go to and where I'm in now, but you definitely are, which is how do you break up? how do you map out your personal finances? So because you said that you have this one farm as a project, you have three or four or five different businesses right now. You have two or who knows what you have, how much real estate.

56:56Do you just like... Is there just like one revenue stream where you're like, that's just the... Like, for example, the app might have high margins. So you're like, oh, we'll just live off that. Or media appearances, I bet you I can just pay... I can make a million bucks a year and that will be what I live off of. And then all the rest I'm going to reinvest or I'll put into the Vanguard, just normal index fund. How does that, how do you balance all your different things when it comes to a personal finance base? I mean, well, I, first of all, I have smarter people at that than me. So I have, I have, I have, I have the, you know, I have people that, that, you know, I have specifically a woman that I work that we've worked with for a very long time that does like, you know, management that, that sort of stuff.

57:42I would say, uh, account accounting and, and finance management, just because that's, she's into it and, and, and good at it. and that's what she's interested in. So we have that, you know, that's a big piece of it. I think that, you know, I think one of the, I mean, for me personally, I don't, I think that that can be such a consuming hole like that, all of that stuff that you can just get swallowed into that and lose every, you know, lose your connection with everything as well. I think that you have to, I, you know, well, part of it has to do with how you look at it. Like what's your, what's your, you know, what's your faith, you know, like what kind of faith do you have?

58:36What kind of belief do you have that everything's going well or not going well? And do you think that you're going to control everything and that, you know, how much control do you think you have and all those things. I think that's a piece of my, I think of my, my philosophy. Um, so does that mean that you just don't stress out a significant amount about finances? And like earlier you said, when I bought that house, you were like, Oh, that was a lot of money for us back then. But I was like, fuck it. We're doing it anyway. We'll figure it out. Yeah. That's kind of like your, your, how you live when it comes to finances.

59:07Yeah. Which is, which I think for a lot of people, they just can't operate like that. And I think, I think, I think for me, I just feel that just feels more, that just feels better. I just feel that feels more natural. I just feel like, you know, because that, because I've just, you know, I've just seen, I've, first of all, I've had the, I've had the fortune to be exposed to a lot of wealthy people in my life, like a lot of crazy wealth and, and, and seeing people that had no nothing. And all of a sudden they got everything. And I've seen people with everything and they lose everything. And so I've gotten to watch a lot of it.

59:45And I just feel like, you know, there, there's a level of imprisonment that happens when you, when you, you know, and, and I think, I mean, a lot, that's why when I say faith, I mean, you know, they talk about, about, you know, you, you saving up, you know, in your warehouse with, you know, where moth and Russ can eat, you know, like, you know, like there's some stuff to do with that, I think, which I think you can't, you can't always, it's not so simple to, to, to be that way. And I think it's harder for, uh, you know, I think it's, uh, it's a hard, it's hard for people to, to, to operate like that, but having that, you know, having that belief, it's like the people talk about visualization and visualizing and, you know, having that, I mean, it's real, that's, that's the real stuff.

1:00:36Like if, if you think it's not real, you're, you're mistaken that you, you, you, you think you can, you can make things, your belief in it definitely will be supportive of it happening. I can tell you that for sure in both ways, right? Like in both ways, you can make things be, you know, like Gabby says, if you have an ouch, God will give you a hurt. You know, if you walk around going, ouch, ouch, ouch, you'll be surprised if stuff isn't just hitting you all the time. And so, and I think vice versa. It's the same way the other way, which is, you know, uh, what is that? If, you know, you, oh, ye of little faith, I provide for the birds.

1:01:12You don't think I'll provide for you. Like, so there's some of that that's real stuff. Like they didn't just make that stuff up out of the sky. That's a real, that's real thing. So I think there's something to be said about that. It doesn't mean be stupid and, you know, and doesn't mean just, uh, you know, just ignore your your reality but but there is something about that that's real that that i think can put you in the right state of mind to not just be caged by this stuff because this is the caging area that's an area that we can be caged no i and i'm i'm one of them i'm i i'm caged by it's like when i i was broke and then i was not broke and i'm like oh shit i've just like created a prison a little bit where you get where you stress out over running out yeah because we're a battle yeah we're scarcity creatures right so we're we have this whole scarcity thing that's in us right so so and you know my mom had another good saying which was be uh the way god punishes you is he gives you what you ask for so be careful what you ask for because you go hey i just want that you know i want that big house and then you're like yeah and then all of a sudden with that house comes all this other stuff, like all the stuff that comes with it, which means that there's a bunch of stuff to break and there's a bunch of thing and there's a bunch of stuff to maintain.

1:02:34And there's a, you know, it's so, and, you know, and that can be overwhelming. I think, I think that, you know, that's why you see these guys that are these big, these big hitters, they're kind of, they're not bogged down by all that little stuff, right? They're not, they're looking in, they're looking in, in, in, at a, at a bit, at a bigger, um, a bigger thing. But that being said, you know, uh, you know, like I said, there's, there's something about being prudent and, and having the right people around you that can, that, that you, cause it, it takes a, it takes a, what do they say? It takes a village, but it takes, you know, you gotta have, you gotta have people that to help because there's not, you can't do everything you can, you know, and it's like, and so that you you need to be you're only as good as you know as the company you keep so i think that that's another important piece too like people well uh no i mean and that that's one of the reasons why i look up to we've had um i don't know if you know rob dyrdek is but he's pretty amazing where uh he's another guy where i'm like laird and rob they've nailed it where business nailed it personal life you never have totally nailed that but you're like are do really well.

1:03:47Fitness nailed it. Self-awareness nailed it. I know you... We'll wrap up here in a minute. But my last question was I think last year on your guys' YouTube, Gabby asked you, what are your goals? It was at the end of 2022. She said, what are your goals for 2023? You go, this year I want to be more of a savage. I want to do more savage stuff. I want to get dirty and do something. What is an example? We're more than halfway through the year. What's an example of something that you've done so far that's savage? And you also talked about visualization over the next six months and 18 months. Are there any particular experiences or goals that you're trying to do that would be that would check that box of being more of a savage?

1:04:31Well, I mean, I mean, listen, I have the nature. For me here, I'll give you an example. For me, I've always wanted to kill an animal. I wanted to go and kill a deer or sometimes I have cows at my ranch. I was like, I want to slaughter it with my hands and I want to eat it. I was like, I don't do that enough. And I eat a ton of meat. I got to do that. Yeah. And like, that's my that's that's an example for me, which is not that very that's not too savage. But what do you have? Well, I go for I go. I go for moose. You know, I go for a move. I go for probably in September. I'll be I'll go get a moose in.

1:05:03And so I can fill the cool fill the freezers for the winter. But I grew up on a farm, too. So I'm already I've dealt with the, you know, and I've hunted when I was a kid, we hunted boar and stuff like that. I mean, for me that the savage stuff comes more with the, with the, with the ocean, you know, like with, with the conditions. Um, I had one trip already to, uh, uh, I had one trip to Peru this summer. I mean, we're just my, my, my, most of my savage stuff comes from the environment. So I need to, you know, and, and, and normally, you know, I mean, listen, I, I, I just, we had that giant Malibu fire.

1:05:42Um, I had to, I had, I fought my house for, you know, I fought that fire for four or five hours with a suit and pump. And, and then I had a flood in Hawaii after, and I was like, you know, at night with boats, it, you know, rescuing people off the top of their roofs of their houses and stuff. And so I have to be careful what I asked for, because before both of those things, I said, I just need some action. You know, I just so again, you know, back to what my mom said, be careful what you ask for. Be careful. Yes. Yeah. You got to clarify. So you have to clarify what you know, what what that what that is.

1:06:21You know, I think because it's easy to make a blanket statement. I just want to you know, it's like I said when I was young, I wanted to be surrounded by women. uh you know that go yeah i just want to be surrounded by women like and then now you are right yeah i have three daughters so you know again i should have been a little more uh how clear in my definition do you read a lot of books um i listen to a lot of books but i read i read some and i'll read and listen but i but i listen to a lot what are the best two that you've listened to in the last 12 or 18 months? Oh, um, well I did, I did, I liked, uh, there was a book called life after life that I really, um, I, I really enjoyed, um, by, uh, what's his name?

1:07:08Moody. Um, and then, uh, let me see the, uh, you know, there's a, there's a gnarly, a really pretty heavy one called embrace the fearless uh embrace fearlessly the burning world by uh barry lopez he's he's pretty radical um and then i went i went full conspiracy uh oh actually the the psychology of totalitarianism was pretty was a pretty heavy book that's the one you were referring to when you said you went full conspiracy no the the full conspiracy was called the trap that one's called the trap um i i go i kind of go all over the place i have a really good one on water right now uh you know i i'm uh i i like fiction i i like you know i like factual books i'm not i'm not a big fiction guy i like i like can i give you um let me give you there so i read a ton i read about i only read history basically okay mostly historical stuff okay but i'm gonna that you would like.

1:08:16You know, Dan Carlin, of course, hardcore history. Yeah. Cause Dan, we know Dan, Dan's a buddy of ours. Really? He's cool. Yeah. I'm going to give you three in particular that you're going to dig. Okay. The first is called the wager. So the first two books I'm suggesting are ship books. It's about, uh, shipping, uh, ships in the 1800s. Yep. So the first one's called the wager. And so these crazy guys would sail, you know, their 1800s ship from England all the way down through Argentina. Cape Horn. And they got stranded and it took them two years to get back. So you'll dig that one. The second one is called the heart of the sea.

1:08:55If you ever read Moby Dick about the whale that sinks the ship, there's actually a true story behind it. And so Nantucket originally was for Quakers who were whalemen. And so these There's whalemen. They're fucking animals. You want to be talking about savage. Imagine sailing a ship with no electricity, no way to talk to anyone for two years, all the way over sometimes to the Pacific, to Africa. And basically, their ship was sunk in the middle of the Pacific. And it's about how they got back to South America. And then the last one that I think you'll really dig, because I wanted to give you three books on being a savage.

1:09:31The last one was called Undaunted Courage. And it's about the story of Lewis and Clark. Okay. Lewis and Clarks, they were, they were savages in a good way. Yeah. I, I, I liked their zone. I've been up in Washington where they're, where they're, their trail was in their, their hardcore. Those guys are. They're honorable, but they were bad to the fucking bone. What I liked is they weren't, they weren't killing anybody. They were just, they were making maps. So yeah. Yeah. And they would meet these natives and they were like, Hey, we're, we're, we're in peace. We're going to be cool with you. but it took him two years, two years and four months to go from St.

1:10:08Louis to the Pacific and back. And it's a crazy story. So those are the three that I would recommend for you. And then I just finished a story about John Wilkes Booth, the guy who killed Abe Lincoln and the 12 day manhunt to find him. So I read a ton of that stuff. I just had an ocean one too, that I can't remember what it is that it's about the, oh, what's it called? I can't. Anyway, there was a great one a sailing one about the race from hobart like the race from new zealand uh the one that they and there's like is there a is there a storm is there a storm in that one yeah crazy storm and the and the boat and the the guys get yeah it's it's it's intense on that race because that's one of the craziest races in the world yeah yeah those those stories you know i i work on my computer throughout the day, the, the, the hardest points in my life, or if I go boxing or if I have a hard workout and I'm like, I need some pain in my life in order to realize that, like, yeah, uh, to turn down my, the volume of my daily life because my daily life is soft.

1:11:12So I need to read about something hard because I can't exactly go and experience lots of hard things. So this is why I like, like reading about these books, particularly the ship book. So I thought you'd, you'd get a kick out of those. Absolutely. Well, yeah. Cause those are, those are, I mean, at sea is a real thing and especially those guys weren't exactly uh watermen too they you fall off the boat you die those guys those guys couldn't even swim which is crazy that's what i'm saying they weren't exactly watermen weren't exactly like yeah no they couldn't even swim and they would live on a ship for 20 years of their life they didn't even know how to swim and also if you fell off a ship in the ocean those those sailboats or the ships they can't turn around exactly you know what i mean so they just fucking left you you're like you're done oh yeah yeah this is uh that's hardcore well we we live in a pretty soft time right now this is a pretty it is soft it is soft which i'm thankful for in some capacity oh yeah you know like there's no doubt but like so so that's why i we have to self-induce particularly young men i think yeah well that's why they like you i think is because they see you risking your life on on a wave and then they like all right well i'm not willing to risk my life in a wave but i'll go to a pool and lift out and work uh move weights at the bottom of the pool.

1:12:22Cause at least that's a little bit of hard. You know what I mean? I think that's why a lot of young men admire you. Yeah. Well, the stress is good. It's it, we need it. We're designed for it. And you know, that kind of constructive stress that you can control the environment. And, and because it's the other one, if you induce it, you don't always have the, you don't have as much participation in the outcome. If it's just being subject, if you're being subjected to it, you know, like a giant wave, it can decide not to let you up versus at least in the pool you can always just let go your weights and swim to the surface but we kind of have to induce it now it's almost like we're forced it you know a lot of the stuff that we're doing is we're inducing things that we were getting naturally like we were getting it from it's like now we don't get enough sun so we got to supplement and take vitamin d it's like we're having this we're having to make up for the fact that we're not getting a lot of this stuff that we need biologically and then that's and that stress that's why the heat and ice is great that's why the breath work is great that's why the pool stuff is great because it's it's a one of one of the ways to stress to stress the system because the system really needs for it to really work correctly it needs a certain amount of stress and not stress of hey i owe taxes or hey i'm in in the traffic but like some other stress it's a little more you know a little more just purely physical so yeah i remember um looking at uh buying a treadmill for my desk and then i like was like what the fuck am i doing this life i'm gonna put a fucking walking treadmill on a desk we don't walk and then i like i i smacked myself i was like this is not the life man i'm this is literally a hamster wheel what am i doing i'm not buying a treadmill for a desk if i gotta buy a treadmill for a desk my i'm i'm broken i've lost yeah but we're almost forced into that so we don't i mean it's like i was like i said i was in europe and all they do is walk over there you know it's like they do a lot of walking we don't walk as nearly as much because we just don't live in those i mean i guess in new york you can you know where you have where you can just if you want you can just there you can force yourself you have to force yourself but in europe they really do it a lot they do a lot of walking and you realize how well we we our system really does well with walking like we're designed we're walkers like that's our one of our big evolutions was that we came up off all fours and started walking and so our metabolism and everything just functions a lot better when we walk.

1:14:46And so, uh, it's, it's, you know, it's like you said, now we're having to like buy things so we can stand in a room and walk. It's terrible. Yeah, I know. I, I, I almost bought one and then I was going, I like went through an existential crisis. I'm like, what am I doing? I don't have to do this. I'm not going to better to go better than force yourself to go for a walk in the park or something, you know, make them make time right well i appreciate you doing this i uh i really admire you i i i admire the family you've built the life that you've built um i'm excited that uh we were able to talk sam i really appreciate your time and thank you i appreciate the admiration and uh you know what it seems like you're you're already you're already uh there already so that's the that's it I'm basically, I read history because I like to see the mistakes as well as the wins that people have made.

1:15:38And that's one of the reasons why I like following you is I'm just like, what wins did he make? And, you know, that kind of helps point me to a direction. What mistakes did he make? I'm going to try and avoid that one. And hopefully it works out. But you've definitely kind of paved the path for me and a bunch of other people. So I appreciate that. I think that's one of the things that makes humans unique is that we can learn from the other people, you know, how to and how not to. It's like, so that's the, that's a, that's one, one of the things that really helps us, you know, is that we can, if we can, I mean, the best is to learn from other people's mistakes, you know, but we have a tendency sometimes to need to make them ourselves.

1:16:15That's part of, part of being human, I think too. So, all right. I appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming.

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