Sam Returns - The Boys Hang Out

0:00Yeah, you text me something, you're like, Sean, you're 7 out of 10 funny, you're 8 out of 10 charming, and I was like, this is a Sampar compliment I think I'm getting here. i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be what i want to i put my all in it like no days off on the road let's try i'm back you know when michael jordan came back to the league he just faxed in a one-pager with just those words on it i'm back we have a lot in common him and i yeah unfortunately when he came back he was wearing number 45 and uh he kind of sucked that year and they got knocked out of the playoffs. So I'm hoping you're coming back a little stronger.

0:44Us six, seven black guys, we have a lot in common. You know what I'm saying? Me and MJ. Did you miss me? It felt like a long time for me. I don't think it felt like a long time for you because you were pretty prolific. You kind of had a couple hits. I did so many podcasts in the last three weeks. I definitely missed you because that was a lot of content. I don't know why I did that. What I should have done in retrospect was say, okay Sam's out let's not force the issue when he comes back we'll come back strong instead I overcompensated when you were out and I was like no I am going to create all the content the world needs tonight and that's what I tried to do and also um we were working really hard ahead of time I mean I felt like I was recording a bunch ahead of time so you've been kind of grinding now for about five weeks now it feels like yeah the funny thing is we thought you were going to be out this month.

1:33So we have all these guest hosts planned for this month that your baby came early. And so now we have like a full month of guests coming up. I can go away. I can go away again. But you did great. We'll talk about some of the stuff I was doing, but you were doing great. So the Sarah Moore podcast was phenomenal. That woman is a superstar. You did a very good job of getting some good stuff out of her. You also did a non pod thing that I thought was some of your finest work, the all-in podcast video or the all-in CEO application. If you haven't seen it, go to Sean's Twitter and you'll see it. It got 1.1 million views.

2:10I looked this morning. That was very good. And you did it all on your own. You even edited it, right? Yeah, I didn't have an editor. And it was one of those ideas that... So, okay, I'll explain what it is. So the all-in podcast, which is a popular business podcast, they were like, oh, we're hiring a CEO. And it started by these four guys, these super rich guys. The joke I make is the all-in pod is billionaires talking about billionaire shit. And our pod is millionaires talking about millionaire shit. And so they were like, we're hiring a CEO and it turned us into a real brand and whatever. And so I was like, you know, it'd be funny if I did like a joke application to this for the job.

2:53So I recorded this video. Problem is, the video is good, but I only wrote at the very end that this was a joke and not meant to be taken seriously. So people are texting my dad. They're like, hey, I heard Sean's going to get the job for a CEO all in. Congratulations. My dad's like, what's all in? What's a podcast? And I'm like... And you're insulting them the whole time. The funny thing, by the way, I told him, I go, my dad texted me that, and I go, no, no, no, it's just a joke. and then he goes okay who started it he thinks like someone's like messing with me i started but you were you were like you're a ribbon on them it was kind of funny yeah it was so it's all fair because it was mostly funny stuff but you were giving them a hard time so that's pretty funny and then a couple of them replied and be like you've made it to the second round so i actually thought they handled it well did did they reach out to you at all no they handled it well uh they didn't reach out beyond just like the public replies or whatever um and And then they played it on the pot on there.

3:53They played the first five seconds or 10 seconds on their podcast. And unfortunately, that made it even worse because that's that part is where it sounds like I'm serious about it. And then I start roasting them, but they cut off all the me roasting them and just put the part where it's, hey, I'm applying for this job. Which is actually the best roast back that they could have done. I think our friend messaged us and said one of the great things about or what did he say? He said, a really powerful tool is to be able to take the popular narrative and blunt force your way into the conversation. And you did it perfectly.

4:27You did a very good job. Talking about newsjacking. I think Ryan Holiday coined that term, or at least he popularized it, which is you take the current thing, but you find a way to attach yourself to it. You sort of hijack the news, newsjacking. And it wasn't my intent. I just wanted to try something funny. So I've been, I'll tell you, we do this podcast and I love this podcast. but also I told you, I'm not like, I'm trying to not go start another company, right? Which is all I've ever done for 15, 16 years is go be like, I'm a startup CEO. I'm going to start a company. It's kind of my identity.

5:01And I'm trying to shift that. Um, and I'm having a lot of fun creating content, but also it doesn't take that much time to produce this podcast. Like take some time for sure. But like when you're used to working, I don't know, 50, 60 hours a week, it does. I couldn't put 50 60 hours a week into this and again the smart chill move would be to just take that energy and go be a better dad go do some community service and just just better myself as a whole but i'm a flawed human being and so i need to direct that 50 60 hours of energy into some creative work project um and so i was like i've been looking for way like other content i can create other content formats that are going to be fun.

5:47One of them was this idea of doing something that's a little bit funnier. The thing I did was kind of like, have you ever seen Last Week Tonight or The Daily Show? Yeah, I know that you've been loving Last Week Tonight. I know you've been loving that style. Yeah, so I tried to do that style, which, by the way, very nerve-wracking. It's hard. It's one thing to be doing a podcast and crack a joke in the flow of a conversation. to another to be like, in this video, I'm going to be funny. I'm going to tell jokes and make you laugh. And it's like, wait, is this like within 10 minutes? I was like, is any of this funny?

6:24And I couldn't I couldn't figure it out, bro. I was like, I was like, I don't know if this is good or this is going to be a total fucking lame thing to put out there. And that was a nice feeling. It was good to feel alive again. Well, here's the good news. Twitter is not a very funny place. so even an 8 out of 10 can crush it yeah you text me something you're like sean you're you're 7 out of 10 funny you're 8 out of 10 charming and i was like this is a sam par compliment i think i'm getting here it was awesome i thought it was good but you tell me how's life as a dad so you created a baby you didn't really create it you played a small role in creating this baby um but the baby's here now.

7:09Life changed? Life the same? What's the situation? It changed. I think I talked to 30 friends. You were one of them. And I think the predominant answer was you love, this is from a man, you love your baby, but you're not in love with your baby. And I only heard about five of the 30 people say I was in love right away. But predominantly people were saying they're just like an alien at first and you don't really get feedback. That wasn't the case with me, man. I was in right away. I've always been, I always say with animals and children, I'm softer than cream cheese. I've always been soft with those types of things.

7:47And I was in right away, baby. I loved it. It was awesome. We got a, first of all, we did a C-section, which is like magic. The doctor was like, I'm starting now. And literally, I timed it. Four minutes later, the baby was crying and out. And then the doctor's like, and now I'm putting your uterus back inside of you. and like it's crazy man that's a line you used to use right? yeah I was like Jake's you'll be a coke doc

8:22were you in the room? you told me you were going to be in the room I was in the room and basically what they do is you know mom is laying like one direction and then they take the baby out and they bring her like 10 feet to the side of her and I go and check on the baby and I was like don't look don't look don't look what was your angle like were they like i still saw it i still saw him you're like why are you cleaning why are you cleaning all the glassware over there yeah i was like staring at my feet trying not to look and i i definitely looked it was pretty wild uh it was gory um another thing it made me view women as wizards um the fact that they could like have this being growing inside of them and then it like is out it's just like it gave me like almost a spiritual respect for my wife it was that was pretty magical um it's almost like you view her as a partner and also as like a sex thing like you know like she's sexualized to you after this i'm like you're a god like there is you know what i mean like i can't imagine like you are not like just beautiful to me you are like this like spiritual being so like the immense amount of respect another thing that happened i remember thinking um So the week I went in or the week we had the baby, I think the stock market was like dying or something.

9:35I barely looked. But I remember thinking like the volume of love that I had for this new baby was so loud that every other problem was just silent. I just didn't care nearly as much. And so that was like a pretty breathtaking thing to have. Did you experience that? Some of those things you just described. So I would say the first six weeks after watching my wife give birth was like, I was like, you know, can I refill that for you? What do you need? Let's just sit down and talk about your needs for a little bit. Like, how can I, the peasant pleb that I am compared to you, just make your life one ounce easier?

10:18And it lasted like only six weeks. I got to say, I revered back to my normal self. after that but like for six weeks the the visceral feeling of watching that happen was uh it made me just be like okay i'm you're a miracle and i'm here to uh ease your life in any way that i can because you just did the hardest thing i've ever seen um like you know i don't know what a c-section is like but like you know my life was doing all the pushing and all that stuff and it's just like a primal experience no epidural all that crap and so after that i was definitely like you like you're saying just in awe and you see you know like a lot of people ask me when we got married they're like oh you're married now you know is how is life is it different with you guys i was like no we've been living together for three years like literally nothing changed and then but the time something did change was after the baby and not even because of the baby more how how i saw her just changed you know i like i saw her perform you know an act of god and so that that was cool uh so definitely felt that didn't feel the instant attachment but um that's cool that you did did you do like skin to skin and all that was it like oh yeah is it like a pheromone thing or like tell me is it like is it chemical or was it philosophical like did you Did you think it or did it just like feel like there's just the chemicals in your brain going off?

11:44What was it? I haven't worn a shirt in two weeks. I basically just for me, it was. That's not what they mean when they say.

11:56I went and bought a bunch of beaters. I've only been wearing Beatles, basically, for easy access. I did it just to keep the kid warm. I mean, I do it just to keep her warm and it feels nice touching her skin. I just like touching her. Men are a little bit different, I've noticed. I watch a video on Instagram. I'm just playing with her face and just rubbing her cheeks and rubbing her chest and rubbing her back. I just like touching her. It just makes me feel good to touch her, and I think it keeps her warm. Yeah. You also said something like, it makes the other problems seem small. That's definitely true, right?

12:27Because everything's relative in life. Isn't it crazy? I saw a video the other day on TikTok. It made me so sad. It wasn't meant to be a sad video. It was, like, you know these YouTubers that vlog their life? It was a guy vlogging his day, except he was in Peru, and they lived in a hut with, like, dirt floor. And his two kids, it was like he wakes up at 5 in the morning. He does his morning routine, which is he does push-ups. He was basically doing, like, Andrew Huberman, but, like, you know, the real shit. You know, like, he's doing push-ups on the dirt floor. He's outside in nature because his home is partially in nature.

13:04and his kids were these two small kids, maybe like three and five years old. And they were like just warming themselves up with like the hot water in the morning. And then they were doing their schoolwork on the like cot that they were living on. I'll play this video. Like it was sad and it's like heartwarming at the same time. It's this weird thing. And especially, you know, like my daughter's the same age as the kid in the video. And so like you just see the difference in quality of life. And it's kind of stunning. And it's not the first time, right? Like I lived in Indonesia, my family's from India.

13:35Like I've seen poverty before, but every time you see it, it's like, you know, just like re puts it back in the front of your brain rather than happy. He was super happy. And that's what I was like. He was happy. He was as happy as I am. And I'm like, you know, this is like some obviously like college wisdom, but like it really is just we acclimate to whatever our circumstances are. And we have the sort of like a baseline normal, but it is also everything is relative. And so it's relative to your expectations. It's relative to your neighbors as relative to what, you know, what you felt. And so for him, you know, whatever was happening that day would spike him up towards, you know, peak, peak happiness.

14:13And if something was what went wrong, it would go a little bit below. And so like, but the absolute, the absolute should have been, if you just like objectively, if an alien was watching, they would say, certainly this person is at least 10 times happier on an absolute basis. and it's like no not at all we're actually probably exactly the same and on an absolute basis um but one thing that does happen is if you have you know a kid like your your quote-unquote problems from before are no longer problems or like you know your kid has a runny nose and a cough and all of a sudden who cares what's happening in slack or whatever else and i think that's one of the it's one of the many blessings that kids will give you the other which you haven't experienced yet probably is when you are talking like when a kid is little like maybe let's say a year and a half years old uh you're showing them things you're like look like oh my god the water is dripping or like look at this i can take this eraser and i can erase the words it's gone it's magic and like in trying to make the kid like see the magic in the everyday things like you obviously are also there for the ride and so you slow down and start to like even when you're kind of faking it for the kid you are feeling the same wonder about all the little things that's like the other huge thing that kids i think do for you i'm excited for that another thing that i don't think people discussed enough and i think it's probably because i hang out with a bunch of peter pans so like most of my friends are between 30 and 40 have like some type of financial success and just like go to spain when they want are single can pronounce debita yeah like a lot of my friends are like kind of selfish you know not not that that's wrong but what wasn't discussed with me ahead of time was I feel like a fucking man I feel so masculine having a kid like I feel like I feel like it's the final piece of the puzzle and that I can continue putting the pieces together but I have all the pieces now I didn't realize how masculine it would make me feel I think I read somewhere that someone defined masculinity as producing excess resources to make sure that your tribe has what they need and i was like i get it i and i i know another i think that the definition of masculinity is looking up and defining the word masculinity to like put put some words to this that's the most masculine thing i could think of hey i am what i am um and then uh i remember thinking how hormonal like i like i remember like uh like i have two nights after or the first night home i remember i just heard someone walking outside or something just in the street.

16:49And I just like bolted up and I was like ready to roll. And then it's also crazy how the woman, I was like, and the doctor, I'm like, so when is she going to start making milk? And like, she didn't have it like two hours ago. And they're like, oh, she's probably ready to roll like right now. And I was like, so you're telling me that you didn't have it. And then like an hour later, you do? Like, they're like, yeah, your body just knows. And it was just mind boggling to me how primal and animalistic we are yet we try to avoid that totally totally it's miraculous is that not crazy to you like like where i was like i was like you guys where's the threshold like does she have to like do push-ups what do we got to do to like get this flowing yeah is there a gummy we eat yeah and they're like oh just give it a few hours i had so many of those like hang on hang on hang on hang on moments with the nurses and they were like yeah i was like like this happened also during the delivery i was like okay and they're like yeah you can like walk around like you you know you could deliver the baby standing up you could be on all fours i was like on all fours what are we talking about here they're like yeah actually it's an easier position less painful and i was like every movie or tv show there's only one position that they show they can't show but but hole on the camera so that's well i'm in the like second phase of the like labor process and i'm having to hang on hold on no way no way moment and they're like Like, dude, it's first of all, it's just not about you right now.

18:16You need to learn. That's actually rule number one. Rule number two. Yes. All of these things that you don't understand, they're real and they happen. Yeah. So that was crazy. And then maybe I'll say the last thing. I don't know how this has impacted your career, but let's talk about money for a minute. I have a feeling this is going to make me significantly better in my career because I think my hours will be more focused. I also think that as she grows, I'm going to want to show like consistency. consistency, so like a normal nine to five or just to make an example of like, look, I'm here to provide.

18:47I commit to what I say. I show up and get through things. I think it's going to actually make me more successful, even if I have less hours. Do you think that's going to be true? I think it's true because you're telling yourself that. Yeah. Like, you know, my grand theory of life is that our brain is basically a giant labeling machine. And that my view of the world is that these, it's like a box is coming on the conveyor belt. That's just things happening in life. And then our brain puts the label on it and says, this means this, oh, this guy drove in front of me. This means he's an asshole and he cut me off verse, or like this means like something else completely.

19:20I could just completely make up a different definition. I could be focusing on the plants instead of that. And so our brain is this labeling machine and it's, that's what defines everything that happens in our life. And I think that for you, you're going to, you're saying, You know what this baby means in my life? It means that now I'm going to be more mature. I'm going to be wiser. I'm going to be more focused. I'm going to show her work ethic. I'm going to want to, you know, be less erratic. I'm going to actually like zen out or sort of chill out and be a stable rock type figure. So then you're going to do exactly that.

19:54It's a self-fulfilling thing, right? Like, so yeah, I do think it will be that for you, but I don't think it's because of the baby. I think that's because you're putting a really strong, empowering meaning on the baby. You did this, by the way, we should talk about, and I'm so sorry to hear about, Sid, your dog. But I read your blog post, and you said kind of a similar thing. Can you talk about that? You basically said you were kind of in the F-boy mode. You get this dog. So if you follow me on social media, you'll know I've got this huge dog, or I had this huge dog. I've had him for 15 years almost, and he was my best friend.

20:29I love this animal. and basically when he was three maybe or two years old I got a DUI and I spent 24 hours in jail and I came home and he went to the bathroom in the house and I was I was so upset I'm like oh my god this dog didn't know I was gonna come home what if I was there for three days this was miserable I gotta get my shit together I have a responsibility and so that was a turning point was I was like I have this responsibility I have to take care of him and it changed my life and I remember thinking like it felt good. It felt good to care about something. And some people, I guess I could say this now that I have kids, but people were insulted when I would say, I was like, yeah, having a dog, it's kind of like 5 % of having a kid and people are like, what?

21:15How dare you? And I'm like, now that I have a kid, I'm like, yeah, it was like 5 % where like I had a thing that I cared for. It was animals, obviously inherently probably less valuable, but also like less work. but I had this like inherent I care for you and I want to I want to make sure you have what you need and that definitely uh changed me for the better leading up to the baby being born I knew Sid was going to die soon I even wrote like a fake obituary for him before he died so I can like enjoy my last six months with him and we my wife and I were like we got to get him to we got to get him to the birth we got to do this I we need to just take this one picture and we need to just uh to complete the picture or i needed to of like going from like moron idiot fuck boy to like a family man and i've got my act together i was like i needed you said something great you said uh dogs for guys in their early 20s are like a special thing specifically what did you mean yeah dog in your early 20s because when men in their early 20s when you're 21 you have you're no longer a kid, so you have more responsibility and you don't get a pass for doing dumb things, but you're still a dumb person.

22:30And oftentimes that means that you're going to grow. And when you grow, the friends that you have at 21, a lot of times aren't the same friends that you have at 31, but your dog in your 20s is the only one that has been there the whole time. And they've been giving you loyalty and love unconditionally. And so a man and their dog in the 20s, that's a very special dog they see the transformation they see the transformation and they're the only ones i mean not all the people who you're friends with at 21 they knew college sean right and you're still friends with them maybe but they don't know what you've been doing lately and then your wife and your friends now they don't know what you were and there's really only one one and they're there every day in your house and like you said unconditionally they don't judge you either but they you know it's a powerful thing the point of my blog post was like i never truly cared about legacy.

23:17Because I'm like, the feeling that I'm going to have when I die is the feeling that I had before I was born, which is nothing. So why do I care? And this dog died, my buddy Sid died. And I remember thinking, I did so much to please you. And that impacted me, which maybe I've had a little bit of impact on some other people. And it was really because of my love for you. And so it changed my perspective on legacy. And what's crazy is we were due right about now, November 1. and he died in October. So we had him for 10 days after birth. And I was like, I kind of like, it was a little spiritual where I'm like, oh my God, like the world worked.

23:54Like how, like whatever 15 years is, however many days that is, that many days plus 10 days is what I got. And so that was like a very meaningful impact for me. I posted that blog post. What's crazy to me is I felt like a pussy sharing that because I used to make fun of people who like cared about their dogs as much. And then I'm like, oh, I've totally become that. hey this episode is brought to you by mercury they're the fintech of choice for over 200 000 companies i myself use it for eight different companies the reason why we all choose it is because it does everything you need under one roof so like my e-commerce company it's super important for us to be able to easily wire transfer pay all our different vendors and suppliers all around the world and the old way with our you know more traditional bank that shall now be named i try it online it would say no it would freeze my account then i'd have to go in, book an appointment, speak to a specialist who would try to upsell me on something I didn't need.

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25:11Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Check show notes for details. If you ever, I mean, it might be too raw for you at the moment, but there's a great, there's a guy who runs or like is the main host of SportsCenter, Scott Van Pelt. And he did a tribute to his dog when his dog passed on air on SportsCenter for like three minutes. He just talked and, you know, definitely going to cry. When you watch that, and that feeling is, I don't know anybody who has a dog that doesn't love their dog. I don't know anybody who loves their dog that wouldn't feel that way. So it is completely reasonable.

25:52It was the first time I've cried in probably 13 years. And I was like, oh my God. So it was pretty wild. But I'm happy it worked out. And I have one bone to pick with you. I wish you would have told me to have a kid sooner. I wish you would have told me. Because you've always been like Mr. Cool Guy, where you withhold a little bit of emotion where you don't want to express how wonderful it is. And well, maybe you just don't feel that way, but I don't think that's true. But within days of having her, I remember thinking there was no reason for me not to do this four years sooner because then I will have four years left.

26:27Because if I die at the same age, I would have had four additional years. I wish you would have told me to do it sooner. I wish that's one of my only regret and not a lot of people talk about that they always say oh wait you've got time man it's pretty awesome I wish I would have done it sooner yeah I think my I guess my personal advice would still be the same so kids are amazing awesome and so like so much fun like you know the fun gets baked into your day you don't have to like go do anything like what you don't realize when you're in your like 20s or 30s or you're single or whatever is like, you have to basically chase fun.

27:05It's like, oh, I'm going to fucking Coachella. And then I'm going to this thing. I'm going to go hang out over here. And then we're going to, I'm going to learn this new skill. And I'm going to do all these things. And you look at people with kids and you're like, ah, suckers trapped in jail with their kids. And what I don't realize is you basically took all of the dope life experiences, you simplified them, and you get to just have them in your house all the time. And like, that's actually what's happening to those people you think are trapped with their kids. but like the people and their kids you don't want to be that obnoxious condescending person with kids it's just like like my brother last of this once and he's like he's like you know the only real person that like we could talk real with each other and he's like your life doesn't have any meaning until you have kids he's like that's just how I feel okay he's like I know I'm not supposed to say that I know that's not I'm gonna gatekeep from now on when people say something like oh you don't know any better wait till you have kids you don't know what you're talking about he said that not to me but he's like we were talking about somebody else he's like they just don't realize it and they're gonna keep talking themselves into how you know blah like how their life is so awesome without kids he's like but my life he's talking for himself he's like you know i didn't have any meaning until this and now i have you know uh you know my cup is full uh the other thing i would say though is that the four years you're talking about like there it is a one-way door to use the jeff bezos decision making framework once you have the kid you can't unhave the kid really and so you you're gonna like your freedoms have changed fundamentally from this point forward.

28:30And so I think that the freedoms you have, like, you know, that age 26 to 31 or whatever are pretty valuable. You should have them while you're there. And then go walk through that one way door. And like, you know, now you have a different set of joys, but you do have a different set of a different degree of freedom. I think that's much more important than like you, you know, worrying about these, like kind of my age is 76 to 80. Glad I had those four extra years. I don't think life actually works like that. I think it's good you had the freedom to do all the things you did and become the person you became.

29:05It happened at the right time for you, I think. You settled down. Yeah, but it's been pretty magical. Four years ago, what were you doing? You're living on 6th Street in San Francisco. You're stressed out. I was learning the difference between meth, crack, and heroin and the different ways in which you put it in your body walking around Soma. You're having a DARE class without the DARE officer in Soma, San Francisco. And you're stressed out building your company. You're making$37 ,000 a year. I don't think that was the right time to have the kid. I think my advice was good to say, wait. By the way, I know that you...

29:40I understand this perspective of why people don't do it. I totally get it. A night nurse is a cheat code. Everyone keeps telling me... So those who don't know, a night nurse, it's basically this lady who is in this other room with the baby. When the baby cries every three hours, she goes and wakes up mom and says, all right, all right, Heifer, it's time to feed. All right, my wife was basically a cow for three months. And she's like, hey, whip the boob out. You're good to go. And I sleep in a separate room. And my sleep has been awesome. Women, I don't know if it's my wife, but I feel like a lot of women, they go through the waking up every three hours and they still have a pretty good day the next day.

30:21Maybe they're just running on adrenaline. But for me, I cannot wake up every three hours and still be a functioning human being the next day. You need a night nurse too. I need a night nurse. I want someone to swaddle me. I would love to get swaddled. I still sleep with my wife's pregnancy pillow because I'm like, this is incredible. This is the level of comfort that was available to me. Why is this only for pregnant women? Just as for non-pregnant women. My knees haven't touched in bed for like the last nine months. Like, dude, knees should not be touching when you sleep. Did you do that one pregnancy pillow, the Swedish one?