The Simplest Way To Make $1M In 2026

13:57Sam Parr:This does not sound, I don't want to work with a person that sounds like Elon.

14:00Jordi Hays:There was no caveat that said the founder is completely sane. We didn't add that. We just said you join a company that's already got an existing, these guys have a hugely successful business already. but it has a chance to 5x because there's a pathway there. All right, that was my first company. Let's switch to somebody else. Yeah, let our guests go first. Let the guests go first. Let's be good hosts.

14:19Shaan Puri:Okay, quick caveat. So we were under the impression that we had to be picking companies under a billion-dollar valuation. It's a good kind of exercise and actually understand that early stage today still means sub-1 billion, basically. Jordy, are you carrying a$5 ,000 handbag in that photo? Uh, it's not, it's a duffel bag.

14:42John Coogan:Can we do the origin of this?

14:45Shaan Puri:Well, so, I mean, the, you know, origin of TBPN is other people have described it as, you know, ESPN for tech and business. What's funny is that John and I do not watch any of the traditional American sports, football, basketball, baseball, et cetera.

15:06John Coogan:Anyway, first one, Varda Space Industries, helmed by none other than Delian, Asperov, and Will Burry. Former SpaceX, valuation$726 million, but one of those multi-decade projects that could have really, really large TAM, really, really large expectations. What do they do? So they manufacture things in space. So they do not build the rockets. They partner with SpaceX. to launch a capsule. And then inside that capsule, they effectively have created a manufacturing environment where gravity is an off switch. And so for certain things, imagine you're trying to grow a crystal or you're trying to grow a drug or heart tissue or there's applications for certain types of fiber.

15:58John Coogan:They're doing a lot of biomedical work right now. And then there's also defense applications if you can get things up into space and get them down, there's a whole bunch of interesting things you can do there. And so the company is maybe four or five years old at this point, 150 employees based in Los Angeles. Obviously, you know, very hardworking environment, but especially with the new NASA administration, things are moving much faster. SpaceX, there was a lot of uncertainty last year. They started landing the Starships, and launch costs are starting to tick down again. And so it gets easier and easier.

16:35John Coogan:And when they first put up their first capsule in space, this is the real question with a space company is like, how long will it take them to actually do something in space? It used to be five, 10 years. They got their first capsule up in just a few years. They're already on their fifth or sixth capsule. People stopped celebrating. Also important, they got it back.

16:54Shaan Puri:They got it back, yes. A lot of space companies put stuff up into space, but that's kind of the end of the story. And so I think our kind of framework for VARDA if you get a group of ultra-talented people together, ultra-hardworking people together, that can develop the capability of simply putting stuff up in space and bringing it back down, it's going to have a really wide range of applications over the long run. What's the founder like?

17:19John Coogan:Will Brewery is completely super sharp, by-the-book SpaceX engineer background who has been able to talk to big pharma CEOs and get them to sign up. And then Dellian's, you know, Dellian.

17:35Shaan Puri:Dellian, who's like obviously quite a character, very, very loud, has, but the company in general has been very like anti-hype. So there's a lot of companies in space that are just hype businesses. They will get all the way to the public markets without having accomplished much, if anything at all. And Varda has been, doesn't chase the hype. They weren't coming out this last year, having like a new pitch around data centers just because that would have gotten them. And so for being a space company, they're extremely, I would say, grounded, focused on developing capabilities that are going to be, like John said, very valuable in a wide variety of applications.

18:18John Coogan:And there's like one, it's a very difficult space, capital intensive. There are not a lot of, there are a decent amount of companies that are sending stuff up to space. There are many fewer that are bringing stuff back down. And it hasn't been a hugely competitive space where there's like 10 players.

18:39Sam Parr:We had someone, Sean, on the pod, I think like last year, explain this company. And they went through this huge thing about why it was cool. And we were like, why do pharmaceutical companies need to make drugs in space? Like they forgot to explain. Yeah, they didn't explain that part.

18:56Jordi Hays:they were like, oh, it's great because you can, like, you know. No, no, no.

18:59John Coogan:It's like a thousand times more expensive than doing it on Earth, but there's just specific chemicals, like very rare things. But again, you have to view this as, you know, multi-decade thing. If you believe in space, if you believe that, you know, launch costs are going to continue to fall, it's going to get cheaper and cheaper, then there's like this interesting trend that you're on the frontier of. And the company's been very good at weathering storms, whether there's like some slight, you know, sell-off in the market or the narrative changes, like the company's well-managed. And so if you can just keep getting through those and just always be the best space, the best company that like does stuff in space, basically, like that's good.

19:37Jordi Hays:You know, I do like, so I do like that you're riding the wave of basically like, is Elon going to get better at doing rockets? Yep. And if he does, the cost per whatever, cost per gram to take something up into space is going to keep falling. And you just keep, you get to keep, Your business keeps getting better the more hard work Elon does. I kind of like that in general as a thesis.

20:00John Coogan:So last year, Blue Origin landed their heavy rocket. And so now there's actually two American companies. And so that means real pricing pressure, which is like very, very good.

20:10Jordi Hays:By the way, I have two tangents. I was reading the Elon biography, which I'm late to, but I kind of like it because everybody's out on it. Everybody's done with it. And I'm the only guy still in there poking around. There's an amazing section. I don't know if you guys have read this, but it's about the tweets back and forth between Elon and Bezos. The sort of rival, the passive-aggressive rivalry around the launch thing. Sam, I don't know. Have you seen this? Well, there's more recent ones.

20:36John Coogan:Bezos just posted the tortoise. Tortoise. He said, I'm the tortoise. He's going tortoise mode. He's going tortoise mode, slow and steady.

20:42Jordi Hays:Who's the passive-aggressive one? Both of them. So first, so Blue Origin was like the first to do a reusable launch, which Elon wanted badly, right? but he was basically like they didn't go up very high and so he was just like Bezos posts a picture oh my god we did it I'm standing next to one of the perhaps the rarest item on earth a reusable rocket or a reused rocket and he's saying basically that's so rare you never see a reused rocket and then Elon goes congratulations but perhaps not the rarest because SpaceX has done that six times if we're counting suborbital hops and then it was just like kind of like your rocket doesn't go high enough and then when Elon did it like a month later Bezos was like congratulations to Elon a really excellent suborbital launch one of the best suborbital launches and Elon was like fuck you dude it was so high but technically yes was still suborbital and they've been basically going back and forth with these like congratulations but and I just kind of love it I love it I love the pettiness yeah Today's episode is brought to you by HubSpot.

21:50Jordi Hays:Did you know that most businesses only use 20 % of their data? That's like reading a book, but then tearing out four-fifths of the pages. Point is, you miss a lot. And unless you're using HubSpot, the customer platform that gives you access to the data you need to grow your business, the insights that are trapped in emails, call logs, transcripts, all that unstructured data makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. And so if you want to read the whole book instead of just reading part of it, visit HubSpot.com. All right, let's move on to the next one. What do we got?

22:17John Coogan:Back to you, I think.

22:19Jordi Hays:Okay, I'll do one. Okay, my next one is Suno. Okay, I've talked about Suno before. If you don't know, Suno is basically a app or website you go to and you can make music even if you've got no musical talent, right? So you can just go on there, describe the type of song you want. Maybe you bring your lyrics. Maybe you don't. Maybe you just give it a vibe and you basically are vibe coding music. It's amazing. I'm addicted to the app. I use it all the time. I've probably made, I don't know, 40 or 50 songs. I've burned tens of thousands of credits on this thing. It's crazy how addictive it is, how fun it is to do.

22:52Jordi Hays:And I just think this company has a long way to run. So right now, valued at two, two and a half billion, something like that, they have 200 million in ARR. So it's not like an AI app that's like... 300 million in ARR now. 300 million. All right. Crazy. Breaking news. We got 300 million now already. And so I met the founder. I really like kind of what they're all about. And they also just struck a deal with a licensing company with a musical music label, which was important. Basically, here's the upside. Because I was like, okay, this is already at two, two and a half billion. Does this have that 5X potential?

23:24Jordi Hays:And I was doing some math, and basically, SoundCloud has 40 million music creators. Okay, so that's 40 million people around the world who actually have musical talent that are publishing on the platform. Suno is only at 2 million users on their platform. So they still, and that's people who don't have to have the musical talent part, the skill. And so the market for the number of people who will make music that don't know how to make music is going to be something like 10, 20, possibly more than that. Possibly 50x the number of actual musicians who create music. So I just think, I think this thing has an incredible long way to run.

24:02Jordi Hays:I would not be surprised if there were hundreds of millions of weekly active users of people who are making music on this thing. And when you do the math of what that turns into, because people are willing to pay, right? Imagine not having to practice or do music lessons or any of that shit. You just pay$15 and boom, you're a musician. It's kind of an amazing trade to make. So I think this thing has a long way to run. I think Suno becomes a$50 billion plus company. It would be also a really fun company to join if you joined right now because you'd be doing something that's both on the frontier, but it's not like manufacturing in space.

24:32Jordi Hays:It's not like actual rocket science. And you're just a part of culture. It's going to become a big part of culture, which is always fun if you're going to work somewhere.

24:39Sam Parr:What do you guys think about these companies that are – We were laughing. I think we said they were launched two years ago and they're at$300 million in revenue. Does that have longevity? You have to ask a couple questions.

24:48Jordi Hays:One is, is it a fad? Do I think this is just like, is it like, I don't know, whatever, dub smash or like, you know, one of these things where it's like, everyone's going to try it once, like the yearbook photo thing, and then there's really no reason to come back in. I don't think this is a fad. I think people are going to want to keep creating stuff. The second thing is, it's going to have too much competition. And I do think that they're kind of on an island where all the big model companies are probably not going to, this isn't the kind of primary war front and they have so many like bigger battles that they're fighting right now.

25:16Jordi Hays:I kind of think Suna is going to go uncontested for a little while longer where it's not the main thing that OpenAI or Anthropic is going to try to roll out and make mainstream. And so I think by focusing and specializing, you know, they have a lot of other stuff built in. Like if you make the song, they have like an editor where you get the stems and you can actually like remix the song and they have like a discovery platform. Like there's a lot more depth that they can go into. So I think that why it would be around is because it's not in the crosshairs of all the, you know, the highest ELO battle in the world, the genius battle, which is like, you know, what OpenAI and, you know, Grok and Anthropic are all doing.

25:52Jordi Hays:What are the bros?

25:53Shaan Puri:Yeah, I think what you're getting at is basically like Suno is the front door to AI music in the way that ChatGPT has been the front door to large language models. That has a lot of value. I made a pretty similar case to a friend who had worked in the music industry for the last decade. He's a real musician, you know, has gone on tour all over the world. He had the opportunity to join Suno at around the same valuation. And I said, you know, I think like you've worked in the music industry your whole career. Where's the growth going to be in the industry over the next 10 years? It's going to be in AI, whether or not people like it.

26:32Shaan Puri:And I think what Suno's tapped into is the same thing that the vibe coding tools have tapped into, where billions of people have an idea for an app, but very, very few people relatively can actually build an app. and now with vibe coding, anybody can build an app. Same thing with music. Everybody's had an idea for a song or could come up with an idea for a song that would create, even in the most simple way, creating, we've heard stories from people that every single night they make a new bedtime song with their kids, right? To kind of like motivate the kids to settle down or go to sleep or whatever.

27:10Shaan Puri:And so there's so many magical moments. It's the kind of thing that can have these sort of viral moments where people like realize it's available, create all these songs, or there's like memes that could form. But it has this like kind of like, I think people will continue to come back to it. So I'm with you, Sean.

27:25Sam Parr:What happens to Spotify's market cap then?

27:29John Coogan:Spotify's market cap should be resistant to this because it's a tool for creating music and music will be distributed on Spotify. And so Spotify never created an Ableton competitor or Fruity Loops competitor. They never sold guitars. They never sold any tools to create music. They might wind up launching some competitor, but I would—

27:49Shaan Puri:Spotify's in kind of a tough spot if you think about it. What would all the biggest artists on Spotify think of Spotify coming out with an AI tool that is competing for listening time with those artists? So it's like they're kind of in a position where Spotify can't jump into this without infuriating a lot of the artists on the platform. So I think it's possible that Suno could eat into the listening time of Spotify. But it's hard to imagine a world where I subscribe to Suno and I don't subscribe.

28:22John Coogan:I would just see it similar to Sora and Instagram Reels or VO3 from Google and YouTube Shorts. Like people will be scrolling these feeds. Most people don't want any AI. Some people are okay with just like the best AI. and so they want one out of a hundred reels to be actually great AI, funny, inspired and people on Spotify will want to listen to the hits and the songs that everyone knows and then they might want to listen to that one breakout AI generated song but it's just going to take one minute for whoever creates that banger on Suno to export it, upload it to Spotify and Spotify will be able to instantly monetize it so I wouldn't see it as like a major threat to Spotify.

29:04John Coogan:There's also some interesting downside protection here that if you think about Suno at$2.5 billion, who could possibly acquire them if they don't make it to escape velocity? And Spotify has the market cap, but also Amazon could put in Amazon Echoes. It could be an Apple thing. It could be a Google thing. It could be an OpenAI thing. There's so many other companies that have the market cap and scale to just pick this up and make it a good outcome for everyone.

29:30Shaan Puri:The other thing is I know the industry, like the traditional music industry is using Suno, but they don't want to talk about it because it's still controversial. I heard from a friend that their friend was a backup vocalist for different artists. So like a studio vocalist, their job would be to go into the, somebody would write a song, their job would be to go into the studio and sing the song. And then that sample would be taken around to artists that would effectively like bid on it. And so the vocalist would like sing it in the style of one artist, sing it in the style of another artist to give people a feel for it.

30:07Shaan Puri:And they said that that person's revenue went from, you know, humming along for the last, you know, 20 years and like effectively to zero because you can now just generate any, you take the lyrics, you generate it in the style of any artist. and so the challenge for for that individual in their career is nobody people that don't hire backup a backup like a backup guitarist can go and tour with a band right because people are there to see like the front man or whatever but a backup vocalist there's not really like touring demand because imagine you get a ticket to your favorite artist and then there's just like someone else singing you're like not really getting getting your getting your money's worth so certain like already disrupting certain corners of the internet.

30:54Shaan Puri:And I think that part of what's holding Suno back right now is just that the main artists will not talk about it because they know they're going to get blowback. But that'll eventually flip.

31:03John Coogan:The product works, yeah. Interesting.

31:05Shaan Puri:All right, you guys want to do one?

31:06John Coogan:Next pick. Yeah, let's move on to TruMed because I think it relates to Hone Health, interestingly. We have a couple other hard tech stuff. But TruMed is a fintech company founded by Justin Mares. I think we all know him.

31:18Sam Parr:One of our guests of the show. I think we all have a, well, I don't want to speak for you guys, but he's in the man crush category. He's kind of a killer.

31:25John Coogan:Yeah, he's a killer. Chad. So TruMed adds a compliant pay with HSA, health savings account or FSA button to online checkouts by handling eligibility through embedded telehealth. So when you go to, whether it's peptides that are going to be popular or eight sleeps or supplements or whatever you're doing to improve your health, if you're going to do it online, there's an economic advantage, a tax savings from paying for it with pre-tax dollars through your HSA or FSA. And so TruMed is this like layer on all of that. So you don't have as much like individual trend risk, like, oh, is protein more popular than creatine this month or this year?

32:10John Coogan:Like as long as health continues to be a trend, you're sort of like the rising tide. Yeah, this is like buying,

32:16Shaan Puri:like investing in an index fund for wellness, right? They're going to be taking a cut of a huge amount of the volume going towards wellness products in the U.S. I started a company called Rora with my friends Brian and Charlie, and we're a happy TruMed customer. TruMed has a very meaningful take rate, a bigger take rate than a traditional kind of payment provider. but it's a great trade because you're able to sell incremental product because people are able to buy it in a tax-advantaged way. And I'm just like an incredibly firm believer in the entire mission of the company. I think that we know that running is going to increase your health span, increase your lifespan.

33:03Shaan Puri:You should be able to let people purchase products like this as a form of preventative treatment. So incredible founder, like very, very strong tailwinds and great experience as a customer.

33:20Sam Parr:What's your company, Jory?

33:22Shaan Puri:Rora, R-O-R-R-A.com. Is that the water filter? So Huberman, Andrew Huberman's kind of been an early partner there, which is awesome. And that was me.

33:35Jordi Hays:I didn't know you helped start that.

33:36Shaan Puri:Yeah, so I stumbled into kind of the kind of water crisis years ago at this point and started looking at all the solutions in the category and kind of ultimately felt like there needed to be kind of like a Dyson type brand in the categories, a brand that was like incredibly focused on R &D and making products in a variety of different form factors. because you're constantly interacting with water in your day-to-day life, whether it's in your shower, bath, drinking water, whole home filters, et cetera. Yeah, the market was quite exciting. It was something I was personally motivated by because my son kept getting eczema.

34:25Shaan Puri:I had a six-month-old getting eczema, and I was trying to track down why it was happening, and it ultimately was like tap water baths that we clocked. And so solving that and then realizing there was an opportunity and partnered with Charlie and Brian to bring it to life and they've absolutely crushed it.

34:45Sam Parr:Are you sort of, Joy, the, you know, I follow you online. I've followed your work for years before, I think, even party round. Are you the design of the two, the design guy of the two? Because you seem like you've had an eye for aesthetics for a while.

35:01Shaan Puri:Yeah, I would generally say so. I mean, John has great taste and instinct around this stuff, but I've just loved advertising, marketing, product design. I've been obsessed with it since I was a boy, basically. I was super into skateboarding and surfing and snowboarding growing up. And so I had this sort of like, I was trying to figure out from a very young age, like why there was like a snowboard available for$100, but I really wanted the one that was$800. And so kind of working backwards from that and understanding design and brand and advertising and all these things. And so bringing that in, I mean, that's the success of TBPN is due in part to our obsession with brand, which is, I think, something that podcasts historically would think about.

35:54Shaan Puri:Okay, let's design our cover art.

35:56John Coogan:That was the first thing Sean's told me when we launched Technology Brothers, the original podcast. I was like, you sent me a really nice message. You were like, I think this is going to work. I think this is the thing. You got to go full time on this. Do it. Do it. And I was like, yeah, like, it seems like the numbers are pretty good. I was being very wonky. and you were like, no, no, no, this is a brand. You've actually broken through and created something that feels, it has a feeling around it like brand. And I was like, yeah, that's almost all Geordi. I helped as much as I could with it, but just the idea to actually create this world and this brand, we had a lot of fun with.

36:28Shaan Puri:Yeah, and the thing that's addicting about media is you're doing basically product development, but the feedback loops are so rapid. Every day. With Rora, it's like we have this idea to build a water filter company, but then the R &D process was like 18 months or something between like idea to actually shipping a product. And then with media, it's like idea to product like in like these really rapid, you know, hour long, 24 hour cycles. And that's like something that I think we love because we'll be sitting here, you know, we'll be sitting there on a Friday and be like, okay, we should have a stock ticker on the bottom.

37:01John Coogan:Yeah, ship it the same day.

37:03Sam Parr:Are you guys disciplined with sticking within your brand parameters or sometimes like, Because that could be hard and it does require discipline.

37:10Shaan Puri:I think it's got to constantly be evolving. And I mean, look back to like the skate and surf and snowboard brands. Like any brand that was just like stuck in their way and didn't kind of expand and evolve and reflect culture, like ultimately just didn't make it, right? These are brands that now you could go back and buy and like bring back into the modern era. But yeah, it has to be flexible. I mean, the transition from being called Technology Brothers to TBPN was like a big moment for us. A lot of people would have said like Technology Brothers is a great brand. We had already kind of like saturated X at the time.

37:50Shaan Puri:So we were small, but people knew about us. And so we knew that that was going to be necessary to evolve into becoming the kind of media company that we wanted to be. But yeah, I think you need a commitment to evolving. And I think the internet allows you a lot of the ideas that people have had around brand and advertising were created in a world where you're doing long-term planning around print and television marketing and catalogs and things like that. And now with the internet, you can just iterate on ideas so rapidly and evolve your brand so rapidly. And it's like a few clicks to fully update yourself.

38:30Shaan Puri:And so I think the only consistent thing for our company is the feeling that we're trying to create, kind of like what we want people to feel when interacting with the brand. And I think that that has to stay consistent because that is the brand. It's not necessarily like whatever logo, whatever your logo is at any one given point.

38:57Jordi Hays:Dude, that's great.

38:58Shaan Puri:you guys are

38:59Jordi Hays:can we get back to the list let's do it but Sam last thing I'd say my first

39:03Shaan Puri:my first ever company was a skateboard company and this was like this was like the pivotal moment for me at 12 years old I realized I found somebody in the Midwest that would manufacture skateboard decks for me so that was like that wasn't my first million but that was my first hundred my first time making a hundred dollars from building a product and that was such an insane moment I was like you'll make this and then I get to put my logo on it and sell it This is the most amazing thing ever. And so that was my first experience building any type of brand was J-Man Designs. I still have a board in my home office.

39:42Shaan Puri:And I think that once I realized, hey, that was my moment of you can just make things. Everything you see in the world is a business. And there's no reason that you can't build it yourself. We have to shred the gnar sometimes. I still skate.

39:58John Coogan:Yeah, I've seen. You are incredible at skating. Those videos on Instagram are insane.

40:01Shaan Puri:I realized by like a teenager, I was like, this is a hobby that destroys your body. So I switched to surfing.

40:08John Coogan:I can't believe you can still do that. Every time I see that video, it's like insane. Anyway.

40:13Sam Parr:Yeah, I still like to get after that. I want to be a 40-year-old man doing handrails still. It's crazy. What do you do with the money once you've already made it? This is a question Sean and I ask our successful guests all the time. And the reason we ask it is because if you are successful, if you do have a little bit of money, information on how to spend or invest your money, it's actually really hard to come by. And I know this because inside of Hampton, which is my community of founders, people ask this question all the time. People have made$10 or$50 million. How do you spend it? How do you invest it?

40:41Sam Parr:And so to help solve this problem and answer this question, I actually interviewed 80 plus founders, guys like Scott Galloway, Alex Ramosi, Brian Johnson, people who are worth 50, 100, even billions of dollars. And we got them to reveal everything. So their net worths, how much they pay themselves, their monthly expenses, their portfolio, things like that. And we turn these 80 interviews into one document. And I don't think you can find this type of information literally anywhere on the internet. And it's completely free. So if you want to see behind the net worths of people who are worth billions of dollars and their portfolios, their expenses, everything, you go to joinhampton.com slash reveal.

41:12Sam Parr:Again, joinhampton.com slash reveal. Check it out. All right. All right. Should I do mine? You guys are going to make fun of me. My next one is self-promoting. I love this. No, this is amazing.

41:26Jordi Hays:It's just, oh my God. I'm so into it. Oh my God. Listen, guys, here's the deal. I thought you might do this. I was going to make fun of you. No, I love it.

41:35Sam Parr:But it just makes sense. Okay, so I picked HubSpot, but the reality is there's probably 30 or 50 or 100 companies that could go in this case here. The SaaSpocalypse, was that what we're calling it? Yep. Insane. Insane to me. So HubSpot, I think they peaked around$900,$850 a share. It went down. I think the low recently was$200. I think that is insane. HubSpot, and again, sub this out with so many different companies. It's probably the same story. HubSpot does$3 billion in revenue with a$14 billion market cap. I think that is insane. They're projecting to do$3.7 billion in 26. so you're buying a subscription software company that I don't think people are going to tear out of their business at something like 3x revenue like everyone talks about like all the nerds on Twitter which I'm one of them are talking about like building their own CRMs maybe maybe the nerds are doing that a roofing company with 20 employees in Tennessee they ain't going to be doing it anytime soon and so I do think that there's a lot of I think this is overblown with them plus however many companies.

42:47Sam Parr:I saw Monday.com, I think it was. I think they do a billion in revenue at a$2 billion market cap, something like that. I forget exactly. And I think that's insane. The bear case with some of these SaaS companies is I do think the seat model is a little bit insane because do you guys remember just the other day that Substack article went live where it was basically a guy telling a story about how AI is going to be so good that people aren't going to work and if they aren't going to work They're not going to buy stuff. And so it does kind of like beg the question if like software companies do pay per seat.

43:17Sam Parr:If you have less employees, Square just laid off however many people, 40 % of their staff or whatever. Like, do they need to continue buying software at the same rate that they were because of the seat model? That's like the bear case. But I just think the SaaS apocalypse totally overblown. What do you guys think?

43:32Jordi Hays:Overreaction.

43:33Shaan Puri:Yeah, I mean, going back to this Sarah's List concept, the amazing thing about HubSpot equity is that it is liquid, right? And so it's very real. There's a lot of companies in our industry where you might get a massive grant, but you're fully locked up.

43:54John Coogan:And I think to the tune of like, can you get the 3, 4, 5x? Well, if the narrative flips and people are like, wait, actually, like HubSpot has some real significant moat and that thing that we thought was going to kill them isn't going to kill them. Well, it just pops right back up. And so that's sort of the option value I see. I would actually say there's more pressure from like maybe startups that are not doing the seed-based model. They're doing more outcome-based model. But a lot of those companies are just getting started and it's going to be years until there's ever like some real disruptive pressure.

44:29Shaan Puri:Yeah, my general framework is that it's going to even like HubSpot will need to evolve in a way that it hasn't since inception. just naturally. And so I don't believe that SaaS is going away, but it's going to require great leadership to help evolve and help the company actually build a lot of momentum in this new era. So I'm with you. I don't think the local roofing company is going to just be Vibecode and kind of maintain their own software stack. But leadership is going to have to actually, it's going from like, hey, we can just compound at this rate annually forever. And like, this is just easy mode SaaS that we saw.

45:13Shaan Puri:If they're going to bake off with a company

45:15John Coogan:that has some really crazy agentic features and basically the CRM's cleaning itself up and adding stuff and lead scoring even better, then they're going to need to invest a lot more. But in general, very, very strong position to be in, system of record.

45:27Sam Parr:What say you, Sean? It doesn't even have to be HubSpot. It could be the dozens of companies.

45:32Jordi Hays:I've been looking at this. I mean, I've been looking at it actually just as an investor to say like, Like, okay, definitely seems like a overreaction. You know, Monish Parai came on the podcast and he said a great thing, which is that risk and uncertainty are two different words. And most investors don't understand that. And he was explaining how the stock market responds to uncertainty more than it does to risk. And so, which is what's happening right now. There's just uncertainty. And uncertainty is very different than saying something bad is actually going to happen. And it's just that we don't know what the future cash flows look like.

46:08Jordi Hays:We don't know what the future growth rates look like. So you get this discount just for uncertainty. And so I've been looking at all these SaaS stocks. And I've been trying to decide, like, okay, Figma. And you have Salesforce. And you have HubSpot. You have, like, all of these on sale. And I'm like, do I want to stock up while these are all on sale? I think these are pretty good companies here. But they do have some level of uncertainty. So I've definitely been looking at this. I was joking, you know, groaning at your pick. But I actually think it's a pretty good pick, especially because the way John said it, like you're going to be liquid the whole time if you Sarah's list this company.

46:39Jordi Hays:You're going to be working at like a company with 20 years of success under its belt, you know, systems and all this good stuff. And then it's like at this all-time low, basically, for where it's at.

46:49Shaan Puri:One thing you have to be aware of is like AI, there's not going to be some announcement by the labs. It's like, hey guys, AI is actually reversed in progress and it's getting way worse. We think it's going to be much worse in the future. And then the stock's going to rocket up. It's like the AI is only going to get more capable. There's going to be new capabilities unlocked. And so you have to be making this thesis with that in mind. And I think there's a way to do it, which is that HubSpot serves an incredible amount of small businesses. They're in a great position to actually deliver the value of AI to all those people.

47:21Shaan Puri:But that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's all going to come down to management and their ability to not just build a story around AI as a tailwind for the business, but actually show that like we are delivering the power of AI to our customer base and they are giving us more money every single month than they were the last month.

47:38Jordi Hays:In your bull case, Sam, I think you wrote AI features still suck, which is a funny bull case, but it's true. I think there's been a few companies like this, like Intercom, Zendesk, where they added AI to their existing thing and they're like, oh yeah, I think Zendesk was at 200 million or something in ARR off of their AI feature. Intercom is over 100 million on their AI. Intercom has been around forever with customer support. And you would think, oh, they're going to get disrupted by AI. And they're like, well, actually, the harder part is getting all these customer relationships. It's actually much easier to integrate an AI feature than it is to go get 100 ,000 small businesses to trust you and use you and integrate you.

48:14Jordi Hays:And so the question is, can they do that? If they do that, then the narrative is not just like, oh, they're not getting disrupted, but actually, oh my God, look at all this extra growth they're getting because they have these AI features.

48:24Sam Parr:The thesis that I have been buying into for the past two or three years since AI got really popular was there are going to be a lot of new entrants, but the vast majority, I think Jordi or one of you guys made this joke, but it's not a joke, the vast majority of value creation is going to be by big companies just getting bigger. I just think that it's much easier for Salesforce to get more efficient and launch new features than it is a new company. Or at least picking those new companies, very hard. But picking a company that works already and it's going to get just a little bit better, It makes so much more money.

48:58Jordi Hays:Right. Love it. All right, let's move to the next pick. Let's get one from the TPPN guys. What do we got?

49:03John Coogan:We should do semi-analysis. This is an interesting one. So semi-analysis looks like a substack. Like if you go to the website, it might even be hosted on substack. They have a website. They break down semiconductor and AI infrastructure build-outs. They have a model for how data centers are progressing, how much it costs to inference different AI models, how the different chips are doing. They'll do a review of the latest Google TPU. They'll explain to you how the latest NVIDIA chip works. They're doing, it's a great business because not only do you have -

49:39Sam Parr:Wait, so is this like Wirecutter? It's like a publication?

49:42John Coogan:Almost, but Wirecutter for the richest people in the world because they run trillion dollar companies. Yeah, institutions. Institutions. So hedge funds, banks, also the actual hyperscalers themselves. So if you're AMD, you want to know what NVIDIA is doing. If you're NVIDIA, you want to know what AMD is doing. And Semi-Analysis is going to talk to everyone, do a ton of research, put together a whole bunch of data into a cleanly organized spreadsheet that you can import into your valuation model for whether or not Microsoft is going to beat earnings. And so they sell those models.

50:15Sam Parr:It's a publication or it's a puzzle, dude. It's like your company, right?

50:19John Coogan:It's a publication. So think of it as a live. You can subscribe to like weekly newsletters.

50:25Sam Parr:Subscribe like as a newsletter subscriber.

50:27John Coogan:But you can also buy models that are pre-built, like Excel models with data in them. And those are very expensive. And then, yes.

50:35Jordi Hays:Sam, have you seen this guy, Dylan Patel? No. This is great though. Never met an Indian guy named Dylan, but love it. Love it. So he is, when he goes on podcasts, this guy is so knowledgeable. Yeah. about what's going on with GPUs. I don't know if you've ever seen the Louis CK bit where he talks about how he likes to sometimes use the N-word, but in a positive way. And he talks about if he goes to a coffee shop and orders a coffee and the guy just fully foams it and froths it and makes it perfect, he'll be like, that N-word made the shit out of my coffee. That's how I feel watching Dilla Patel talk about GPUs and infrastructure.

51:12Jordi Hays:He'll be talking about the new Colossus thing, and he knows the megawatts under the flops. and what cables they're using. And he knows everything. He's like, we got satellites watching the parking lots and we figured out this is how bad they're scaling. This guy knows, he knows so much. It's incredible how much this one person is knowledgeable about GPUs. And is he writing all of this?

51:35Sam Parr:It looks like an AI blog.

51:37John Coogan:So they use AI imagery, but all the text is written by their staff of analysts. So they have about 50 people working there. And on a particular deep dive, They might have five to six authors attached. Dylan might write something. Other folks might write something. Doug O 'Loughlin's also over there. How much money are they making?

51:55Jordi Hays:Is this like a$5 million company? 50? 500? What's going on with this?

52:00John Coogan:Tens of millions. I would put it in tens of millions. But this is the interesting bull case is that right now they have a very respected analysis group. but they're also launching a fund, allegedly, according to the information, to invest in both semiconductor stocks and startups. And they're already doing angel investing. And then also, they're going to do credit ratings. And so the real model to think about this, the comp is Moody's. So if you're familiar with Moody's, they do credit ratings. And Moody's got started during the railroad build-out because the railroad build-out was so capital-intensive that there was a huge secondary market for like, okay, is this person that's going to build this railroad from Chicago to Atlanta, like, are they good for it?

52:46John Coogan:Do they have the money? And so Moody's is now an$80 billion business. And if you look at the stock, like, Moody's has not moved during the sell-off. Like, it's doing fine. And yes, this is very indexed to the AI boom, but the actual business can be very, very stable, very high margin, and very big, like, much bigger than people think when they think of just, like, publishing analysis.

53:09Sam Parr:This wins. This is the best one. This is the best one. This is super cool.

53:13Shaan Puri:Yeah, one of our teammates, his brother just got a job here and John and I were so excited for him. Yeah. Because if you're excited about AI and you're not like a researcher or a product designer or a product manager or a founder, but you want to be at the center of the action and actually understand what's happening, this is a fantastic job.

53:36John Coogan:So it's a super interesting job with a lot of upside.

53:38Sam Parr:Do they have offices? It looks like the founder lives in SF. Is it like an in real life company? Yes, they have a West Coast and East Coast office.

53:46John Coogan:Yeah, but it's a lot of time with like hedge funds and banks and managers. And also Dylan Patel is very young. I believe he's in his 20s. And so your description of his encyclopedic knowledge of the semiconductor industry is correct. and I think if you just look at what that compounds like over two decades, I think you're already seeing one of the most important voices in the most important industry, but it just compounds.

54:14Sam Parr:Have you guys ever read this book called How to Get Rich? No. It's by an author called Felix Dennis. Felix Dennis, you guys have to read this. The magazine guy, right? The magazine guy. You should Google Felix Dennis. So Felix Dennis, he was like a combination of Richard Branson and Mick Jagger. He was kind of vulgar, but he had this like British aristocrat vibe. He was really funny. He was very funny. He died from cancer and he used to joke that he was a crackhead. Like he was literally a cocaine and crack addict and he spent a lot of his money doing it and he wrote about it. He was, but he's like funny.

54:45Sam Parr:He wrote about it. Anyway, he got rich because he created this thing called Dennis Publications and Dennis Publications was a computer magazine started in the late 70s, early 80s and it made him a fortune. When he passed away, he was probably worth eight or$900 million and this is like in 2008, 2008. So it was very wealthy. And there's been like 10 different guys. There's this guy named Pat McGovern who was a multi-billionaire because of computer magazines in the 1990s. There's Ziff Davis, if you guys heard of that, Bill Ziff. There's been so many of these. And what you are explaining right now by what Dylan Patella does, it's this exact same B2B publication in a technology boom, owning a very small niche and just kicking ass and doing the same playbook of research, media events.

55:29Sam Parr:And it has created many billionaires.

55:31Shaan Puri:Yeah. One, one way to look at semi-analysis is like what they're doing to like sell side research firms, which is like, hey, wait, like you're a sub stack. You can't do, you can't do like advanced research on semis, you know, or you can't like compete with us. You guys are just two guys. Yeah.

55:47John Coogan:You have the aesthetics of like a Goldman Sachs equity research or Morgan Stanley report, but the data's just as good, if not better.

55:54Shaan Puri:And, and, and with TBPN, it's like, wait, you guys aren't, you don't have a cable network. Like you guys can't interview this person on the day that they're IPO-ing and it's like you can just do things.

56:08Sam Parr:It's the same thing. As someone, I'm a little bit of a media historian nerd. It's the same story over and over and over again. And this is a great find. Sean, you want to bring us home? What do you got?

56:19Jordi Hays:All right, I got one for you guys. This is a name a lot of people know, but I hadn't really put too much thought into it. So Harvey. Harvey is basically very simple. It's an AI lawyer. It's AI software for law firms, more specifically. And I think right now, they've just been, I mean, they're raising rounds. So like, you know, if I did this episode six months ago, it would have been like, oh, they're a whatever, $2 billion company, $5 billion. Now they're an$8 billion company. So I might be getting priced out here as it goes, but I do love the space. So they're about$200 million in revenue off of just like 1 ,000 customers.

56:52Jordi Hays:I think like half of the top 100 law firms in America are using them in some capacity. And I was just kind of, again, I like to do kind of bottoms up math to make my own case for these things. So I think in the US, there's about half a million law firms. That's just in the US. And right now, Harvey's average contract value is like 190 ,000, which means they're basically getting paid like they're a lawyer who works at the firm. And so, you know, I don't think that will be there for, you know, smaller law firms. I think there'll obviously be a lower price point. But just in general, legal work is like a perfect candidate for AI work, right?

57:33Jordi Hays:Because it's mostly text documents. It's mostly writing and reading and summarizing. And then there's all these like really bespoke workflows that a law firm needs. There's compliance. There's security. There's validation. There's all these like things that you got to build that's like for a law firm versus like would a lawyer rather just upload into chat GPT? I don't think so. I think there's actually going to be like purpose-built tools for law firms. So Harvey's one, Legora's another. They're both companies in the same exact space kind of competing for this. And I think the cool part about this is that if you can add leverage into the legal system, that'll kind of transform the economics of how these law firms work, right?

58:14Jordi Hays:Because currently there's billable hours. You put more bodies. There's sort of this incentive to spend more time on something. I think that's going to change. I think, you know, more and more law firms are going to use this and realize, like, we don't need to have as many people to be able to do the same amount of work. And I think their billing model is going to change. But anyways, I think Harvey is a perfect example of, like, as AI happens right now, there's going to be these winners for the decade. Like, oh, remember all those companies that got started when the AI happened? Like, yeah, there's the big ones, OpenAI and Anthropic and others.

58:45Jordi Hays:And then I think there's going to be these, like, vertical ones. And to me, the legal one is, like, a clear-cut, that obvious in-your-face vertical one that will be pretty big. If you do the math, by the way, of like, you know, every law firm is going to use AI. I don't think there's going to be any law firms that are not using AI. Depending on how much market share you think they're going to capture, you sort of multiply that times$100 ,000 per firm, and you very quickly get into the tens of billions in revenue available to the lever.

59:10Shaan Puri:Yeah, the thesis for Harvey, there hasn't been a lot of big outcomes of just building software for lawyers. so when investors have backed Harvey it's been a general thesis that they're going to capture some of the current labor spend which is a much bigger market than enterprise software I've got a friend who is at one of the big law firms he got an early demo of Harvey when I first talked to him about it he was like, oh, it's cool and then a year later somewhere in early Q4 of last year his eyes were like wide open and he's like i i'm like it's it's the real real deal now so they've made a lot of progress the the product gets better as the models get better the question is like how much do the labs actually care to build out the kind of more enterprise functionality that that harvey's already built out um and and so they'll they'll naturally be some competition there over time but uh we had John Quinn from Quinn Emanuel on our show today.

1:00:16Shaan Puri:The most feared lawyer in the world. Really cool guy. You guys would have a fun conversation with him.

1:00:21Jordi Hays:Is that Elon's lawyer?

1:00:22Shaan Puri:Yeah. Was he nice?

1:00:27John Coogan:He's super nice.

1:00:28Shaan Puri:He's a sweetheart. But not the kind you'd want on your bad side. But I asked him, so AI is really good at generating legal docs already. It might make some errors, but it can make them really fast. I was like, do you think we'll potentially have a hundred X more litigation? And he was like, yeah, possibly. Right. But he also said that that's kind of like the bull case for lawyers still being at full employment is like we, yeah, you might, a lawyer might be way more effective, but there could just be way more cases. So that would be kind of a very American outcome.

1:01:03Jordi Hays:It's like, what's that story like in India where they were like, there's too many pythons and they put a bounty. Like if you bring us a dead python, You get like, you know, whatever,$100. And then the Python population boomed because people just started breeding Pythons. That's basically what you're saying is going to happen. We're just going to breed more just like useless litigation. Love it.

1:01:20John Coogan:Well, this already happened in legal. There was a piece of software that would help lawyers write down their billable hours and it would sort of pad it out. And then so there was software on the client side that would automatically scan it and say, that's not work I'm paying for. Get that out of there. Get that out of there. and it became like bot on bot war. Very fun.

1:01:41Sam Parr:Did you guys see the episode we did with John Morgan?

1:01:44John Coogan:No. Oh, for Morgan and Morgan?

1:01:45Sam Parr:Yeah, so we had John Morgan on. So for the listener, Jordy, I don't know if you would see his, I don't know if he's in California or not. I've seen the ads. I've seen the ads. I watched the episode. I think it might be the largest type of his law firm. What is he? He is a... Injury law. Injury law. Yeah, yeah. So he has commercials everywhere and he comes off like a sweet, he's older, he's in his 70s. He almost comes off like a grandpa, like you want to trust him. So he comes off like a very PC, soft guy. But whatever, he's a lawyer. So we had him on the pod. I swear to God, the very first sentence that he says to us, I say to him, John, I hear that you own a museum on crime and punishment.

1:02:28Sam Parr:That's really unique. Verbatim. Oh, that thing? That thing prints. prince that's the first line i swear to god that he said to us word for word that's a lot of money he owns he owns an amusement park business and he owns seven museums called uh the alcatraz of the east i think he calls it okay and uh we were like how do you have time to do this you have a five

1:02:57Jordi Hays:billion dollar law firm. And he was like, I don't hunt deer. I hunt money. We were like, this guy's incredible. That's wild. I'm from John Morgan. That's amazing.

1:03:09Sam Parr:It was one of the craziest interviews I think that we've ever done. It was the most difference of the commercial versus the reality. It was like way different.

1:03:19Shaan Puri:There's a number of Harveys for personal injury. People that are making software specifically to qualify these types of cases and will naturally be controversial because some people don't like the whole category, but that's just an area. There's going to be like vertical Harveys. That's terrible.

1:03:40Jordi Hays:Just send me your deck. I just got to take a look. I can't believe you guys are doing that, but just send it over.

1:03:46Shaan Puri:We got one more for you guys that I think you'll like. Have you guys heard of Send, Cut, Send? No. What is that?

1:03:55Jordi Hays:What is that?

1:03:56Shaan Puri:Okay, so fun name for a pretty serious company. They let engineers upload CAD files and quickly get custom parts made using software automation to make quoting and production fast and frictionless. Can you dumb that down a little bit? What's a CAD file?

1:04:12John Coogan:Yeah, you send in like a 3D file that says, I want a cube milled out of aluminum and it's got to have a cylinder attached to it. Let's put it in skateboard terms.

1:04:23Shaan Puri:So let's say you want to design your own pair of trucks.

1:04:26John Coogan:Yeah, your own truck. You design the trucks on a computer,

1:04:29Shaan Puri:and then you take this file and you send it to them. They cut it, and then they send it to you. You send them the file, they cut it up, they cut up the metal, they send it back to you. So this one's cool because it's fully aligned with everything you hear about re-industrialization, the kind of things that America used to do but forgot how to do, that we ship these capabilities overseas. But Send Cut Send is a bootstrapped company. The founder, Jim, has been on our show. Scaled over$100 million in annualized revenue completely independently and have thousands and thousands of happy customers all over the U.S.

1:05:10Shaan Puri:Doing something that, again, people talk about why entrepreneurs end up manufacturing in Asia. One reason is because of costs. but another thing is just like speed. Like every person that's manufactured something here will tell you, I reached out to this shop. I asked them to make a part. They didn't get back to me for a week. When they got back to me, they said they could do it in two months. And so Send Cut Send is really focused on speed and ease of use. And they've scaled up organically. And the founder, Jim, is just amazing. And so - How'd you guys find this?

1:05:48Sam Parr:This does not appear to be in your wheelhouse.

1:05:52Shaan Puri:Well, yeah, we love having companies come on the show that don't, you know, every single day, there's probably half a million to a billion dollars worth of fundraising rounds that get announced on TPPN. But we love having founders on that have never raised a dollar.

1:06:09John Coogan:I met him through Jason Carman because Jason Carman profiles a lot of hard tech companies, and he is a supplier to a lot of those hard tech companies. So you can kind of think of him as like the index on all of those like somewhat more risky re-industrialization bets where, is this drone company going to work or is that drone company going to work? Well, they're both going to be buying parts from SendCutSend.

1:06:31Sam Parr:Wow. Great find, man. This is a really cool one. He used to, so this guy owns, when you described it, I was thinking like a more of a blue collar looking guy. He owned a landing page company and then went into his business.

1:06:45Shaan Puri:Yeah, he's just a hacker that decided to make stuff in the real world.

1:06:52John Coogan:Yeah, but he's very, I mean, the bootstrap thing is, I think, important because it's a capital-intensive business, but he's been thinking about profitability, thinking about scalability from day one, set up a very healthy business that's not going to collapse at any point in time. Yeah, and we joked with him when he was on our show.

1:07:09Shaan Puri:we said if you were venture-backed, you'd be valued at$5 to$10 billion. You'd be getting some insane multiple, but he's happy to just build a great business and compound every single year. And we hope that he scales up dramatically and enters a bunch of different verticals over time because Lord knows we need it. Dude, there's been so many times

1:07:32Sam Parr:where Sean and I talk to someone and I'm like, what am I doing podcasting? Like, that sounds so much cooler. Do you guys feel like that all the time by talking to all these amazing people?

1:07:42Shaan Puri:I think most of the people we talk to, we know we have no business being in their business. Yeah. And so I feel like we're lucky in this. Like I wouldn't want to compete with like Peter Rahal in selling protein bars, even though I could go make a protein bar, right?

1:08:00Jordi Hays:Yeah. I think I'm missing that common sense because every time I talk to these guys, I'm like, we're so similar, me and you. I was like, I shouldn't be just doing what you're doing. This is great. And I somehow think I can do all of those things.

1:08:11Sam Parr:Halfway through the interview, Sean acts like I'm interviewing him. He gets on. Sean's like, you know, look, Sam, guys like us, we're just here to do amazing things and build great products. And he'll sign off. I say, thanks for having us, Sam.

1:08:25Jordi Hays:Just become the guest on your own show. That's elite. I love it. I do like the bootstrap side because, I mean, one of the things with Sarah's List is you don't want to be taking a ton of dilution, right? Because even if the stock price is going up, You don't want this company that keeps requiring more and more capital, has a bigger prep stack, all that stuff. I had one on mine that was, we don't have to go into it too much, but it's Column Bank. It's kind of like this. I don't know if you guys saw the story that came out just the other day. So the founder of Plaid, his new company called Column, is basically like, it's a fintech company.

1:08:55Jordi Hays:It's a bank. He actually bought a bank for, I think,$60 million of his own money. And then he started this, and he basically uses it as the underlying bank under Mercury, under Ramp, under Brex, under all these companies. And so he, and I think they're doing, this number's out of date, in 2026 they're doing 200 million in revenue. He owns all of it. He never raised any money. Wow. And it's like you said, it's an index. So it's an index into all the new fintech shit. It's like, great. If you think Ramp's going to keep growing and you think Mercury's going to keep growing, well, guess what? Column will keep doing well.

1:09:27Jordi Hays:That's correct. And they're doing extremely well. And here you got a founder who owns the whole thing. And so you go work there, you're not going to take dilution the same way because it's a profitable company.

1:09:35Shaan Puri:That's awesome. Yeah, and they're competing with all the banking as a service providers because historically you'd have the fintech, like a neobank, like a Mercury, and then there'd be like a banking as a service provider and then there would be the actual like chartered bank underneath it. And so Column is like eating up the bottom two layers of the stack and saying, hey, build the consumer-facing financial services company, but we'll handle all the different, the API layer down to the actual bank.

1:10:06Sam Parr:So I'm just browsing. So he started, I feel embarrassed, platterplate, I know what it is. It's one of these words where I read, I never say.

1:10:17Shaan Puri:Colum was started due to his experience building Plaid, right? Because Plaid is like the... Yeah, the rails. ...allows, is basically created in large part, helped create the overall fintech boom. And so that's a good example of like when you're picking these companies, there's like this, you know, in Silicon Valley, we all want to believe that the founder with no experience can just come in and just dominate the industry just based on, you know, sheer willpower. But sometimes just going and attaching yourself to a team led by somebody who has deep, deep, deep experience and has vision that is grounded around having worked in the industry for a long time is like sometimes you don't need to overthink it.

1:11:04Shaan Puri:Just like if you're going to join a company, go work for somebody that has done it before at massive scale.

1:11:10Jordi Hays:What an unfair advantage. Not only to see the problem, like you said, but how many meetings can you get with fintech companies if you're like, oh, by the way, I started Plaid, right? You can get every single meeting. You walk in with incredible credibility, and then you own the underlying bank. and then for whatever reason, I'm not a developer, but like for whatever reason, like having great, easy to use APIs is like this really big competitive advantage that seems like every company should do because it sounds like handwriting. You know, it sounds like something so simple. It's like, well, a well-documented, well-designed API, but apparently it's a pretty big competitive advantage when you go into a space that historically didn't have that.

1:11:47Jordi Hays:And, you know, it's no surprise that a company like this is kicking ass.

1:11:51Sam Parr:What a boss, man. We got to get him on. Amazing person. Looks like he's only 35, 36 years old. Hey, the bros, you guys are the best, man. It's been real. Thank you so much for doing this. Of course, we're not the Technology Brothers anymore.

1:12:05Jordi Hays:We're not. By the way, John, I was wrong. I texted you when you changed the name to TBPN, and I was like, oh, no. It's not going to work. Technology Brothers, that's the one. Yep. But I was wrong. You guys made TBPN work in an incredible way.

1:12:17John Coogan:No, I mean, it still is a mouthful, but online people just type it out and having four-letter domain, four letter handles. You know the other reason we did it

1:12:26Shaan Puri:is at that point we were shifting from just being the two of us talking to doing guests. And we wanted the aesthetics of being like a cable network because we wanted to go and get these like public company CEOs on. If you're trying to get a public company CEO, some of them, the really founder mode ones, you just talk, DM with, text, and jump on. But a lot of them, there's like layers of people in the communications department that you're kind of like needing to gain their trust. And so like by having the optics of being like a network, even though we were just a podcast, we were able to, you know, end up getting a lot of those guests.

1:13:04Shaan Puri:That's such a funny nuance. Yeah.

1:13:07Jordi Hays:It's like, oh, yeah, the folks from TBPN have reached out. Exactly. Feels very different than, you want to come hang with the technology brothers?

1:13:16Sam Parr:It's like Jordan Belfort is calling it Stratman Oakmont. Stratman Oakmont. There we go. He's like, it's just a made-up name. It just sounded official. Thank you, guys. This is awesome. You're welcome anytime, and we appreciate you. Thanks for having us.

1:13:30Jordi Hays:We did their sign-on. Maybe we should let them do our sign-off. So we basically asked you, is that it? That's it. And then you say, that's the pod. So can you give us a, we'll set you up. Is that it? We done? That's the pod. That's the pod. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

1:13:47John Coogan:I put my all in it like no day's on.

1:13:53Sam Parr:If you made it this far, then you're going to love what I'm about to tell you. So there's this amazing entrepreneur. His name is Neil Patel. He's been on MFM. He's one of our favorite guests. And he has a podcast. It's called Marketing School. And it's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Marketing School brings you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years and years of being in the trenches. They have over 100 million downloads and over 2 ,500 episodes. Marketing School gives you bite-sized marketing wisdom that you can implement immediately, whether you have a new website or you already have this huge established business.

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