Don't Embarrass Us in Front of James Blunt!!

31 Jul 2026 · 45 min · 25 chapters

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In short

The hosts (Jamal McNally and Vogue Williams) chat about Ibiza heat and nightlife “age limits,” early-morning radio work, planning daytime DJ gigs, concert controversies (Usher bringing a woman onstage for sexual dancing), and offbeat news/entertainment: BuzzBall Boulder (3L), Gen Z not chasing lent money, and Danny Cipriani’s “Honey Fund” wedding cash donations. They also discuss mice infestations in homes/restaurants, AI “escaping” fears, and Vogue’s upcoming TV show plugs.

Guests

No guests appear besides the hosts themselves. People mentioned: James Blunt (friend/meeting), Dean Piper (friend), Amanda Holden/Jamie (Heart Breakfast coverage), Usher (concert incident), Gabrielle Cheyenne (woman brought onstage), Chris Brown (touring context), Adam Kay (author), Danny Cipriani (rugby player), and Mia Gamble/Richard Iawati (panel show co-stars).

Key claims/examples

Vogue says she’s “too old” for clubs; wants a brunch/daytime DJ identity (e.g., “DJ Poached”); she’s covering Amanda Holden on Heart Breakfast. Usher’s onstage act led to Gabrielle Cheyenne declining and being removed; her family issued a statement. BuzzBall Boulder is rumored/confirmed as 3L only in America. Cipriani’s Honey Fund asks for £75–£450 donations; hosts call it “crass” to request cash upfront. Vogue recounts finding multiple mice in her pop chips cupboard and mentions Soho restaurants with mice.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Discussing the Heatwave

0:45 to 1:50

Vogue and Jamal talk about their experiences with the recent heatwave.

“I actually was cocky enough that I was like, oh my God, I'm actually grand.”

Exciting Job Opportunity

1:50 to 3:23

Vogue shares her new job covering for Amanda Holden on Heart Breakfast.

“covering for the lovely Amanda Holden on Heart Breakfast.”

Radio Career Reflections

3:23 to 5:03

Jamal reflects on his past experiences with radio shows and the differences compared to podcasting.

“You can either do a radio show every day or a podcast twice a week from wherever the hell in the world you want to.”

Aging and Nightlife

5:03 to 7:03

Discussion on the challenges of nightlife and feeling too old for partying.

“And then the next day on TikTok, people were posting the cues to get out, to get taxis.”

Meeting James Blunt

7:03 to 8:35

Vogue shares her anticipation about meeting musician James Blunt.

“James Blunt Spenny and I have been listening to him non-stop in the car for the last three days.”

The Reality of Fame and Music

8:35 to 10:28

Discussion on James Blunt's career and his perception in the music industry.

“And he very politely kind of educated me on the extent of his career.”

DJ Aspirations

10:28 to 12:14

Vogue playfully discusses her plans to retrain as a DJ with whimsical DJ name ideas.

“No, because that would suggest you were out the night before.”

Daytime DJing

12:14 to 13:20

The hosts joke about the concept of daytime DJ gigs and their preferences.

“I had to do one at half seven in the morning, standing there dancing and stuff with people coming off the tube when they're just going to work like the darts at home.”

Candid Holiday Stories

13:20 to 14:00

Discussion about their holiday experiences and humorous moments.

“are you going on boating he feels boating socials are hard because obviously I have water in my phone oh for fuck's sake phones are waterproof now how is yours broken well mine isn't because everything is now blurred.”

DJs and Day Gigs in Ibiza

14:00 to 14:40

Discussion about DJs transitioning to day gigs and wellness in Ibiza.

“Oh I'd love if he got to go see his gaff I'd say it's He's got a club in his garden apparently No Oh my god Are you just going to club into his house?”
Show all 25 chapters

Dealing with Paparazzi

14:40 to 15:40

A story about encountering paparazzi while on the beach and the privacy concerns of a pregnant individual.

“And I said to Sven, I was like, oh God, I just, I really hope that I just don't look terrible in that picture.”

Usher's Controversial Stage Moments

15:40 to 17:10

Discussion around Usher's stage antics and a woman's unexpected experience during his concert.

“Thank you for making me feel positive about the whole thing.”

Usher's Reaction

17:10 to 18:00

Usher's response to a woman not participating in his suggestive stage act.

“no, no and then he just, he made a face and took her off stage.”

Community Reactions to the Incident

18:00 to 19:40

Examining public backlash against the woman brought on stage and her family's statements.

“as you know I believe it to be a feminist masterpiece like been three times.”

Contrasting Celebrity Choices

19:40 to 21:30

Debating the irony of a woman preferring Chris Brown over Usher for a stage experience.

“She's like, hold on, I want the guy who beat up Rihanna, if you don't mind.”

Concert Experiences and Ticketing

21:30 to 23:20

Discussion about concert experiences, ticket pricing, and artist performances.

“he was also pissed off he's like hello yeah I'm Usher you should be swooning yes well people are absolutely mad for his concerts but he kind of does that stuff the whole time.”

Mormons and Recreational Drug Use

23:20 to 24:20

A humorous debate about Mormons and their views on drug use.

“Salt Lake City, Seattle, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Denver.”

Mouse Invasion Story

24:20 to 27:00

A light-hearted story about discovering a mouse infestation and the chaos it caused.

“I was glad it was good because his own books, which are non-fiction, are so good.”

Mouse Infestation Woes

28:00 to 28:38

Learn about the struggles of dealing with a mouse infestation and humorous anecdotes surrounding it.

“So now I'm over the holistic side of things.”

Restaurant Mouse Encounters

28:38 to 30:08

Discover unsettling experiences in restaurants known for their mouse problems.

“I said, I'm obviously dealing with mensamise here.”

Buzz Ball Excitement

30:08 to 31:33

Find out about the new Buzz Ball product and its appeal among the hosts.

“I don't know it's a terrace house they're obviously running through the houses I think that you need to get like clips for all your, do you know what I'll buy you?”

Gen Z and Money Dynamics

31:34 to 36:59

Explore the challenges Gen Z faces with lending and borrowing money among friends.

“And they've said help us create our dream wedding and honeymoon experience with any amount of donation.”

Wedding Cash Fund Controversy

37:00 to 39:48

Delve into the debate over wedding guests being asked for cash contributions.

“I might set one up for my 10 year wedding anniversary.”

Nail Emergency Before Meeting James Blunt

39:49 to 42:00

Hear about a last-minute nail emergency before an important meeting with James Blunt.

“You know, I still haven't sorted out my Sky.”

Leisure Centre Antics

42:00 to 43:30

The hosts discuss leisure centres, their personal experiences, and a British sitcom.

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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:02This is a global production. I'm going to say, I think I might be too out for a bit.

0:09Joanne McNally:I love dancing and I love going out, but I'm like Cinderella. I need to be home early.

0:15Vogue Williams:He made a face and took her off stage. He ushered her off.

0:19Joanne McNally:Excuse the point. Yes. I have Google Alerts set up for BuzzFall, so I was told immediately when this news came through.

0:30Joanne McNally:Hello, welcome to My Therapist Ghosted Me with myself, Jamal McNally and Vogue Williams. Hello. Vogue Williams. Vogue Williams. How are they? I'm obviously, there might be a little whirl of air occasionally as I fan myself, but it's an essential, like it's a survival technique at this point. I actually was cocky enough that I was like, oh my God, I'm actually grand. I thought the London heatwave had prepared me It did not

1:01Vogue Williams:No, no, it's a different level of heat So you have to keep dipping Dipping is the only way to do it

1:08Joanne McNally:I just need to be in the water at all times Or in severe air con Do you know where it has severe air con? Dubai Well, yeah, I was going to say gyms

1:18Vogue Williams:But yes, Dubai Let's go to Dubai I know it's 60 degrees

1:23Joanne McNally:But no one sees the 60 degrees I'll go for dinner in Dubai just to get just to cool myself down what brings you out to dubai the aircon actually would you

1:33Vogue Williams:believe the aircon i'm still in spain but i'm i'm starting to pack up i'm getting ready to go um oh i know it is sad because i love being down here um but it's time it is time because i have a very exciting job that i'm doing for the next couple of weeks go on i am going to be covering for the lovely Amanda Holden on Heart Breakfast.

1:57Joanne McNally:Oh, stunning. You and Jamie. Me and Jamie. Yeah, I can't believe him. Sounds. Great job. He's so

2:06Vogue Williams:good at radio though because I went in because I wanted to be able to cover her for ages so I had to do, I did a pilot and like you're just sitting, you know when you sit with someone and you're like, gosh, you're just so good at your job. Like it's just, it's really fun to watch something like that so I'm excited to be a learning curve I said I'm kind of up for everything because I think it's all really great crack and I love going on hard breakfast

2:32Joanne McNally:so I'm excited to just be there for the whole thing now And you love an early morning?

2:36Vogue Williams:I love an early morning, it's the dream like up at about half five, home at half eleven, yes please

2:45Joanne McNally:I would rather peel myself with the machete I would rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon

2:54Vogue Williams:You're a drive time gal

2:58Joanne McNally:I'm a drive time gal I'm a drive time gal

3:02Vogue Williams:When we get to like When we're 70 Why don't we have a drive show I can do drive It's just I just don't want to I'm not doing a night show with you I'll do a drive show I'm not doing the evening Yeah drive time I would do a lunch time show Yeah lunch time could work as well

3:15Joanne McNally:I used to dream of having a radio job I loved it But then I realized when we started podcasting, I was like, hold up. You can either do a radio show every day or a podcast twice a week from wherever the hell in the world you want to. It seems like a better deal.

3:31Vogue Williams:A radio show is because I have had many radio shows. I started on a radio station in Ireland probably when I was like 19. And weirdly in Ireland, they just kind of were like, come in, do it. That's OK. This is what you're doing. See you later. And they kind of just left you to it. and then I did another radio show um on a bigger channel and I basically I didn't even really break even to be honest with you like by the time I paid for my parking and everything because I I had to buy my own music and stuff because they're like oh we want you to do a dance show and I was like but this isn't a dance radio station they're like yeah but we want like a Saturday night dance show and they were like so you go in there now and like they'd leave me in a booth someone showed me the ropes a little bit and I had to put together a radio show on my own and then like because it was it was all pre-recorded I'd sit there and I'd be like

4:20Joanne McNally:and shout out to Andrea

4:21Vogue Williams:who's just sitting

4:22Joanne McNally:having drinks with all the girls

4:23Vogue Williams:like I'd think of

4:24Joanne McNally:all of our friends names

4:25Vogue Williams:and just like do all these shout outs do you know what speaking of radio

4:30Joanne McNally:and DJing obviously I am still in

4:34Vogue Williams:Abifa

4:36Joanne McNally:and I fear I fear and I hate to say this because I know there's people out here of all ages having a ball I fear I'm going to say

4:48Vogue Williams:I think I might be too old for real I think I think the level that you blew a beef up at was probably too too much I think I'm too old you're not I've been here for five nights I've gone out two and I've stayed in three I know I know you've stayed in three but come on now you were hardly tucked up in bed and you know what were you

5:09Joanne McNally:some of them well two of them I was some of the nights some of the nights we were supposed to go to who never went to in the end. And then the next day on TikTok, people were posting the cues to get out, to get taxis. And I was like, no, you'd have to put me in an induced coma. Like I would collapse. If I turn up to a taxi queue and there's four people, I'd need an emergency therapy session and a beta block. I'm not equipped for the crowds. Yeah, that's age. I will say that that's age

5:37Vogue Williams:because when you're younger, you couldn't give a shite. I would wait for a taxi till six in the morning, messing around the streets, didn't give a shit, but at this age, 10 minutes and I want to be gone.

5:50Joanne McNally:Sonar. I went to Sonar in Barcelona years ago and like that, we have photos, which are actually quite cute because we're really young and we're like that. We're on the footpath outside after in the boiling sun. It's like 8am, queuing for taxis, walking barefoot over broken glass. Not a bother on us. We're still, we're just like, woo, we don't even notice.

6:09Vogue Williams:I know, I know. I was meant to go to that Sonar, remember, except I broke up with my boyfriend and then I kind of, we had to split the, split the bits. Festivals. Yeah, we had to split the bits.

6:18Joanne McNally:He got sonar in the divorce. He got sonar, yeah. I just, the level of comfort required when you hit your 40s is what, I'm a brunch gal. You. I was thinking, I was like.

6:31Vogue Williams:You are, so there's a fellow called Dean Piper that I'm friends with and Joanne knows him as well. I think he might be out there at the moment, by the way. And he said it perfectly. He was like, I can't do clubs. He was like, I want to go for lunch. I want to have a really good time drink clothes during the day and then I want to be in bed at 12 and I was like that sounds ideal ideal situation I am meeting Dean Piper today shut up yes

6:57Joanne McNally:do you know who I'm meeting today and excuse the clunk of the name drop but I did work with him and he is I'm calling him a close personal friend James Blunt Spenny and I have been listening to him

7:10Vogue Williams:non-stop in the car for the last three days. Yeah.

7:16Joanne McNally:He's obviously a Mr. Ibiza.

7:18Vogue Williams:Yeah.

Read the full transcript

7:19Joanne McNally:So do you remember Noel Gallagher made that really shady comment in an interview saying that he moved out of Ibiza because James Blunt lived there?

7:26Vogue Williams:Yeah.

7:28Joanne McNally:I'm the opposite. I've been trying to track down James for the four days that I'm here. I'm like, James, I'm your close personal friend. Remember me? Do you know what I love about him? He's finally agreed to meet me and I'm meeting him today and Dean Piper's there as well.

7:41Vogue Williams:We're going for lunch. I know oh my god stop honestly me and Sven have been listening to him non-stop for the last few days I've been going around he's actually he's got so many bangers and that is right I was only thinking about it in the car I was like he has had to put up with so much shit from people being like oh what a twat and he's not like what what like because you're not into his music like you cannot deny his music is good it sells really well he's done incredibly well out of it and now that he attacks people But back on Twitter, everyone loves him because he's obviously fucking hilarious.

8:16Joanne McNally:He's been doing arenas for 20 years because when I was talking to him when we were doing the traders, I was saying to him, I was like, God, like he's this lovely lifestyle where he's kind of half in Ibiza and half in Switzerland and half in the Cotswolds. And I was saying, all that from You're Beautiful. And he went, no, Joanne, I've been doing arenas for 20 years.

8:35Vogue Williams:You had that one song. Well done. I was like, that one song, James.

8:39Joanne McNally:He's like, no. And he very politely kind of educated me on the extent of his career. And when I say he is one of the soundest, most entertaining, most polite people I've ever met in my life. And I can't wait to hang out with him.

8:55Vogue Williams:He did tell me that he lives in, I think I did, it was a Sunday brunch I did with him and he was gassed during the whole thing. And he told me that he lives in like three different spots. So like his kids, like, and he brings his kids around and they just go to school in three different places. Sorry, the state of my hotel room, I've done my very best. that's actually for you Joanne that's not bad and you don't even have to tell everyone because it's going to be cut in a little bit oh yeah we're going to have to really

9:20Joanne McNally:we're going to have to really sharpen this shot him out yeah we're just going to if you could just type me a floating head I should have put can you put one of those backgrounds on yeah just blur the background like I'm in a kitchen yeah just blur the background him out but anyway so I what I've decided is I love dancing and I love going out but I'm like Cinderella Bella, I need to be home early. But I love the DJing scene, right? The DJ, and obviously Vogue as a DJ yourself, you know, it's great crack. So I've decided that I'm going to retrain as a DJ. I've come up with some names for myself.

9:54Vogue Williams:Okay, go on.

9:55Joanne McNally:So it's very much, it's very much a brunch situation. So the obvious one, Joanne McBrunch, Swedish Brunch Club, Brunch Van Dyke, DJ Poached.

10:03Vogue Williams:Oh, I like DJ Poached. DJ MacMosa.

10:06Joanne McNally:DJ Sourdo. No, DJ Poached. DJ Daytime. I'm just going to do children's parties, Chelsea Flower Show, Crufts, Garden Centres. I'll book you for your first gig. TT's birthday. You're booked. Perfect. I'll only perform if I can see Avocados and Chihuahuas. It's going to be very much. I'll make it happen. A daytime situation. DJ Salpo, I thought could be a good one.

10:28Vogue Williams:No, because that would suggest you were out the night before. I think it's DJ Poached for me, you know?

10:34Joanne McNally:Yeah, I agree.

10:35Vogue Williams:Champagne, Super, Never Out After Nine. Oh, yeah. Okay. What do you think? I quite like that one too, but I do feel like, I feel like, I think you've just overly kicked the shot out of yourself now. I think that maybe you took yourself down too quick and too hard. I saw you doing shots of tequila at like 11am. I know.

10:58Joanne McNally:What am I, 14?

11:00Vogue Williams:How embarrassing.

11:01Joanne McNally:Not even in the eyes. Not even in the eyes. In the mouth. That's like, that's how traditional I am. Tequila.

11:08Vogue Williams:I used to snort vodka from a spoon. Like, why? Why?

11:11Joanne McNally:What's the point of that? I don't know.

11:13Vogue Williams:Because we thought we were hardcore.

11:14Joanne McNally:We thought we were so cool. Honestly.

11:16Vogue Williams:Well, I was meant to play paddle this morning. I had a paddle lesson. I did play paddle on my own. But I had one booked with Amber. And there was accidents last night. So my kids woke me up and I had to sort out the accidents that had happened. And I was putting a wash on. And all of a sudden I heard this noise. And I was like, what the fuck is that? Amber, who was meant to be in bed at 11 o 'clock, had stayed up with her pal till 20. past three in the morning and I got a message. I still haven't, they haven't surfaced yet. I got a message at half three being like, I can't go to paddle. I was like, you don't say so.

11:47Vogue Williams:I saw you last night when I was putting on a wash. Oh, I'm a paddle girl. I thought only men played paddle. Paddle. You'll be able to do paddle. I've tried it out for us. How dare you. I've not played tennis with you, but I'll play paddle with you. I'm not playing paddle.

12:06Joanne McNally:I'm a DJ paddle. that's not a bad one actually you could be DJ Paddle DJ Paddle and DJ Pouched

12:13Vogue Williams:would be a DJ collective

12:15Joanne McNally:you can play the songs

12:16Vogue Williams:and I'll just kind of hang around doing tequila in my eyes the DBs it's got a bit of a double on top

12:23Joanne McNally:I have us booked for breakfast I have us booked for we're going to do what we do we're going to play to the duty free in Stansted airport that's what we're going to do the dream the job of dreams

12:34Vogue Williams:do you remember that time I don't know if you ever saw when I had to do a gig I did a gig in Connolly Station. It's a dart station. So it's like a tube station in Ireland. I had to do one at half seven in the morning, standing there dancing and stuff with people coming off the tube when they're just going to work like the darts at home. And it was probably the most embarrassing one I think I've ever had to do. I'm sorry to the brand who came up with that idea. It was like 10 years ago. It doesn't matter. I can slag it now. but it was even for me I was like this is a lot now

13:09Joanne McNally:well I'd play Conley Station that's a daytime gig you're not okay let's see how she goes today right I can't

13:15Vogue Williams:please keep us up to date a bit more on the socials we want to see what you're doing you're going to have are you going on a boat are you going on boating he feels boating

13:23Joanne McNally:socials are hard because obviously

13:25Vogue Williams:I have water in my phone oh for fuck's sake phones are waterproof now how is yours broken well mine isn't because

13:35Joanne McNally:everything is now blurred. It looks like I put a scuba feature on it all. Do you remember that mermaid feature? The app that you can put yourself through and you were kind of like half in the water and half aged? That's naturally what's happening on my photos now. James will have a spare phone. He's loaded. I'll get a phone off James.

13:54Vogue Williams:James, what's his butler called? Chives? Or what do they call him in all the movies? Chives.

13:59Joanne McNally:I'll be his butler if it means I get to go and see his house. Oh I'd love if he got to go see his gaff I'd say it's He's got a club in his garden apparently No

14:08Vogue Williams:Oh my god Are you just going to club into his house? See didn't I tell you this I told you And I think it's the same with all DJs Calvin Harris is a dad now He doesn't want to He doesn't want to be up till 2 or 3 in the morning He wants to do a day gig And that's what we should be pushing for

14:25Joanne McNally:I need to find the wellness area of Ibiza Like what we did when we filmed our TV show out here and we were out here steaming our vaginas and all getting the creases out do you remember that?

14:34Vogue Williams:I actually really enjoyed that and mine could do with that right now this poor girl little creased little creased I was on the beach yesterday I keep jinxing myself with stuff and I was like and there are paps out here but like sometimes like usually I'll spot them because they're brazen they'll just sit there and they won't go away and I'm like you try it's not the best part of the holiday but anyway I walked down the beach of Gina and one of my friends who's Spanish went up to them the last time that we saw them and said leave her alone and supposedly there's like a rule i don't know if it's true in spain where if a woman is pregnant it's like you're taking a picture of the baby so you're not allowed to do it and so she wow so she went up and spoke someone said just leave her alone and they're like oh does she not want this no i don't want you sitting there all day taking pictures of me anyway so they went away and i was like yes i was like gina isn't it great there's been no pops and then i spotted one on my way out of the sea i'm And like, you know, when you're just not ready for something, I look like a wet dog.

15:31Vogue Williams:And I said to Sven, I was like, oh God, I just, I really hope that I just don't look terrible in that picture. And I just, I hope I don't look massive. And he goes, well, darling, you are pregnant. You're hardly going to look slender.

15:44Joanne McNally:Nice one.

15:50Vogue Williams:Thank you. I couldn't. Thank you, husband. Thank you for making me feel positive about the whole thing.

15:57Joanne McNally:another reality bites from our span out but I actually looked at him and I was like you know what, you're dead right like what do I expect yeah, I mean come on you are building a human inside you

16:10Vogue Williams:oh god

16:19Vogue Williams:so speaking of gigs did you see Usher had a, so Usher does this thing where he takes his fans up on stage and like sometimes he goes around the crowd and he has these women licking cherries like they're tea bagging isn't that the same? It's so good.

16:37Joanne McNally:Right.

16:38Vogue Williams:Like they're licking balls like it's very suggestive and some women really go to town on it and that's kind of his thing. He does all this like I don't know kind of sexy. It's really unsexy to me to be honest. I would absolutely despise to have to do, I think he did it to really Scarlett and I think he did it to Sabrina Carpenter before but anyway, he brought up this woman on stage to do all his like sexy lap dancing pretty much all over her gyrating on top of her and she just was like, oh god, no no, no and then he just, he made a face and took her off stage. He ushered her off excuse the point.

17:18Vogue Williams:Yes.

17:19Joanne McNally:Emma, would you mind googling her name just so we have it? Because I have statement here.

17:24Vogue Williams:I just don't think I want to go to a concert and get dry humped on stage in front of thousands of people by Usher.

17:30Joanne McNally:Well, I know it's the same. Do you remember when we went to Magic Mike and they come around and like they're all, as we know, I mean, they're all gay men. And so it's very much, the vibe is off, but I do believe Usher is straight. So at least you'd think that he might be actually.

17:43Vogue Williams:I didn't get a gay vibe off the Magic Mike lads. I don't have a great gaydar, but I didn't get one gay vibe. Am I that off? Were they all gay?

17:51Joanne McNally:Straight men cannot dance like that. Some of them can. In my experience. Not that many. And it was clear I have to say and I love to imagine as you know I believe it to be a feminist masterpiece like been three times. But I do think those men who are dancing seem slightly repulsed

18:08Vogue Williams:by us. Well do you know what they're slightly repulsed by us because we were like we were pretty pissed. And like we. It wasn't us. Because they didn't lap dance on us because we used it. I used the safe road which is unicorn. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like I like watching other people get lap danced. I think it's quite funny. But I always hate Usher to be up on stage doing that to me. Call me old fashioned, but I need to believe

18:30Joanne McNally:they're into it. Otherwise it's quite humiliating when they're literally gagging like lap dancing on you. You can see them. They're not into it. But they're like getting into it. It's worse when the girls are into it as well. Did you get it in my mouth? Yeah, her name's

18:44Vogue Williams:Gabrielle Cheyenne.

18:48Joanne McNally:Gabrielle Cheyenne was the name of the woman that was brought up on stage she's released a statement in fact her whole family have released statements and may i say her aunt whose statement i don't have to hand she's the kind of aunt you'd want she's like fuck all you bitches you'd go up there as well if you were invited so anyway oh are people going are

19:08Vogue Williams:people going so this was in tennessee but are people going in on her first oh massively so Why?

19:14Joanne McNally:So this is her statement First off Nobody In caps Is declining to go on stage I looked good as fuck You thought I wasn't Gonna let thousands Of people see me On the big screen Where you bitches Will never be My mum and I Had floor seats Their team approached us And moved us to VIP Before the show even started Pretty privileged Is something you hoes Will never know about

19:37Vogue Williams:I love her Oh she's going in I love her

19:41Joanne McNally:They don't say Who you're going up for y 'all wanted me to get up there and fuck them ATP I'm not sure what that means chat folks aren't used to anything that's the most exciting thing that would have happened in y 'all little ass lives fuck y 'all disrespectfully

19:55Vogue Williams:I think that well she sounds kind of amazing I think that he was kind of bothered that she wasn't into it and he brought her up and like he's so used to everyone being mad into it but like he can't be getting people are like oh he's so good he understands consent and like it's nothing fucking to do with that he was pissed off that she got up i didn't want to get involved in it and that's why he sent her off stage it was nothing to do with oh she's not consenting here like come on i i just there's something right i've got to say it there's something about him so isn't he touring with chris brown that's so that's it so that this the woman who was brought up on

20:36Joanne McNally:stage she said she wants to go for chris not usher and they didn't tell her she's gonna offer her She wanted to go up for Christmas. She's like, hold on, I want the guy who beat up Rihanna, if you don't mind. That's who I'm choosing to get a lap dance off, please.

20:49Vogue Williams:I'm trying to speak in a few seconds. Usher said about P. Diddy, Usher said that Puff Daddy was misunderstood. Can you imagine?

20:59Joanne McNally:The whole thing has sparked massive controversy on the internet and she was even getting dogs abuse coming out of the concert and so her family are weighing in and they're not taking it lying down. I respect it. I mean fair enough

21:11Vogue Williams:it's good to clap back I'm kind of thrown by the fact that she'd rather Chris Brown I know I don't know where my feelings

21:20Joanne McNally:lie anymore at the start I was like

21:21Vogue Williams:yeah you get it girl now I'm like oh no

21:25Joanne McNally:but no I agree with you I think Usher while I'm sure consent was part of it you could see he was also pissed off he's like hello

21:32Vogue Williams:yeah I'm Usher you should be swooning yes well people are absolutely mad for his concerts but he kind of does that stuff the whole time. I love a good concert. I'm thinking of going to Celine Dion in Paris but I once went to see Bruno Mars and I have to say he was just, because he's doing this thing now where he's selling his tickets and he's selling audio only tickets and they're like 58.35 so you don't see them because the seats are so bad. What? But you can hear them. I?

22:04Joanne McNally:Sorry.

22:05Vogue Williams:Why didn't I think of that? I think, yeah. it's like you know when he gets sent outside the classroom it's like face the wall and you have to face the wall you're just facing the wall but you can still hear him now i have to say i'd prefer a ticket like that for bruno i'm not being a bitch and he is a fan he's so talented but it was just

22:23Joanne McNally:it was all a bit too positive for me it was like yeah hey you know like a cheerleader and i left

22:29Vogue Williams:his concerts because i was like it's too it's too i feel too happy i have to go too upbeat yeah

22:37Joanne McNally:Yeah Yeah you want some Well that's a good thing To go to Celine Dion I think she's quite emotive Yeah yeah yeah I thought she had Locked in syndrome

22:45Vogue Williams:Or something She has Stiff body syndrome That she's kind of Getting under control But she's doing All of her concerts In Paris So you have to go Right So she doesn't have to Yeah well I was hoping She would There would be some movement But there would be You would have heard About a Wembley Or an O2 Or something by now So I think it's just Paris I have to take the hit I have to take the hit Speaking of concerts. Speaking of concerts,

23:09Joanne McNally:I wouldn't mind mentioning some I have myself coming up.

23:13Vogue Williams:I'd love to hear about them, Joanne. Fantastic.

23:16Joanne McNally:Well, we have New York on November 7th, obviously. We have Toronto, Vancouver, Salt Lake City, Seattle, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Denver.

23:26Vogue Williams:Oh God, she's back to Denver.

23:28Joanne McNally:San Francisco. Yeah. That's it.

23:31Vogue Williams:No, there's some weird ones. There's definitely some other weird ones.

23:35Joanne McNally:Well it's not that they're weird

23:37Vogue Williams:Or maybe it was Salt Lake City

23:40Joanne McNally:Salt Lake City I'm going to the Mormons I'm going to do cat with the Mormons

23:45Vogue Williams:That's what I heard, they don't drink They all do cat, that's what I heard They don't do cat

23:49Joanne McNally:I'm joking

23:50Vogue Williams:They don't do cat, there's no way the Mormons do cat If anything they do shrooms If anything Hold on, I'll ask ChatGBT I wonder how different Joanne's ChatGBT is to mine

24:06Joanne McNally:Hello Chachi BT

24:08Vogue Williams:Do the Mormon Do Mormons do catamon?

24:12Joanne McNally:Here we go Do the Mormons do cats man It's come up For fuck's sake

24:18Vogue Williams:They don't even drink They definitely don't do catamon Hello Chachi BT Do the Mormons

24:23Joanne McNally:Hello Chachi Hello Chachi BT Oh oh oh Here we go Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Very lengthy name Are taught to avoid recreational drug use using ketamine recreation would generally be against the church's teachings however medical use is different oh yeah no one's giving you a ketamine for medical use that's not what

24:45Vogue Williams:that's what we have fentanyl that's what we use for medical use it is that's what puts you asleep

24:50Joanne McNally:or what's it called the other one anti anti no no no i was gonna say antiseptic what's it called

24:57Vogue Williams:Jesus An aesthetic An aesthetic And a bit of fentanyl That's what we get We don't do Cetamine That is for horses God we're so informed Aren't we I just lost I just lost the words

25:12Joanne McNally:Speaking of Medics And medical treatment I'm reading For our culture corner Yeah A book that I'm sure Vogue you will I'm sure Be aware of Because you're also An Adam Kay fan I love Adam Kay he started writing fiction I picked it up in the airport it's called A Particularly Nasty Case

25:33Vogue Williams:I've read that

25:35Joanne McNally:oh have you? Jesus Christ where do you get the time? every book I bring up she's like I've read it

25:42Vogue Williams:he did my podcast with me ages ago and he brought that Adam Kay is like the most famous person in our household my kids are obsessed he's a book about snot he's a book about like your digestive of Amy Gets Eaten.

25:58Joanne McNally:Yes, he's all those baby things.

26:00Vogue Williams:And he's on the Tony box all the time. And then I read that. Yeah, he's huge in our house. That's actually a really good book. I was glad it was good because his own books, which are non-fiction, are so good. I was like, oh God, is he going to be good at fiction? He is. It's okay.

26:13Joanne McNally:I'm only a couple of chapters in, but I am enjoying it. Did you finish yesteryear? Thanks, Adam. I'm still listening to that.

26:19Vogue Williams:I have an hour and 15 left. Emma started reading it as well. It's gotten weird. It must have gotten weird by now.

26:25Joanne McNally:I'm powering through. I'm back enjoying it now. It is. I always find sometimes like books, they're not going to be a rivet every three minutes, but you can, you know.

26:34Vogue Williams:Yeah, I have this massive book that I've started and I kind of was a bit like, oh, that's like I can, I read a lot. I do fly through books, but like I was like, that's a very big book for me to be on holidays. And I do actually love it, but it took me 130 pages to get into it.

26:54Joanne McNally:As the listeners will know I believed I was living with

26:58Vogue Williams:one singular mouse

26:59Joanne McNally:which was in hindsight quite naive and the night before I left after I beat that there was what can only be described as chaos the sounds of chaos coming from a cupboard in the kitchen

27:14Vogue Williams:Oh God they love bread I was quite I was quite scared

27:17Joanne McNally:actually. I was like, oh my god, there's, I've got a hungry intruder. It's going to be one of those stories where they're like, oh, there's someone living in the walls. Do you know those stories where there's someone living in the walls? And I opened the cupboard. Now, at that point, the one singular mouse I believed I was living with was getting very confident and he was basically walking around during the day on his hind legs.

27:39Vogue Williams:Just like strutting.

27:41Joanne McNally:Just staring me in the eyes, yeah. Wearing my under eye patches, just like living his best life.

27:45Vogue Williams:You know, when someone goes for you with their head and they're like, come on is that what he's doing to you yeah he's starting on me he's like make me go I was like can I see outside

27:53Joanne McNally:make me but I opened the cupboard and there was four or five of them in there in my pop chips

28:00Vogue Williams:just looking at you

28:01Joanne McNally:well they were they scrambled when I opened the door but they were eating the pop chips with their tiny little hands oh god so I squealed like anyone would and I accept now that I obviously have a gaggle of them but the problem is I thought I'd won because they all look the same. Oh, God. They're a family. I don't know if you can say that. Can you say that? I don't know if you can say that. They all look the same. They're all the same style of mouse. So I thought it was just one. So now I'm over the holistic side of things. Oh, that night I obviously set the traps, put pop chips in the traps because I was like, obviously they're a bit of me.

28:37Joanne McNally:They love a pop chip. Didn't touch the traps. I said, I'm obviously dealing with mensamise here. I said, I give up. I can't cope with this. so I have an exterminator coming in while I'm away.

28:49Vogue Williams:Stop! Otherwise I'm going to go back they'll have changed the locks. No you have to get rid of them. No because they do they multiply have you seen they're like rabbits the way they actually breed so like they won't bring their mates in they'll just they'll just have they'll just ride each other and just have babies and then you'll have you could honestly have an infestation of mice.

29:09Joanne McNally:I read something and it said if you see one during the day it's because the nest is full and I was like oh! Oh, oh my God.

29:16Vogue Williams:Oh, I was, you know, there's a restaurant in Soho, right? And it's actually, it's quite a nice restaurant, but Soho is known for being full of mice because like, I don't know, that's where they frequent. And sitting in the restaurant, there's mice that will run across your legs. Like I took Sven there for his, oh my God. It's just like, not for me. I remember we were in a very nice club and we saw mice running across the floor. It was like a restaurant, a restaurant clubby place. and yeah there was mice running across the floor we were like you know there's mice running all over the place and they're like yeah we're trying to sort that out I don't think

29:50Joanne McNally:like it's not a sign of and I say this in defence of myself because my house I mean I do have Barbara in twice a week my house is clean it's not the sign of a I didn't know that I had to put my pop chips in an airtight container do you know what I mean and also I had the back door open a bit and it's an old house and they're obviously I don't know it's a terrace house they're obviously running through the houses

30:12Vogue Williams:I think that you need to get like clips for all your, do you know what I'll buy you? I'll buy you a set of neon pegs for all your open bits.

30:21Joanne McNally:I'm going to vacuum pack all the food like you do your clothes and your kids.

30:26Vogue Williams:Oh no, that's not great news, is it? Well, anyway, I do have good news for you though. You love a buzz ball, right? And you got a buzz ball biggie, which was 1.75 litres. now they have brought out a buzz ball boulder which is three litres and it's only on sale in America but you're going to America on tour soon so you can indulge I've heard yes three litres obviously I've heard

30:54Joanne McNally:of buzz ball I've never had one of them I've Google Alerts set up for buzz ball so I was told immediately when this news came through I was like it's amazing what they can do these days thank God for AI that's what I said this is obviously the vision of something more intelligent than us you can't get enough buzz ball you can't get enough buzz in those balls I'm going to buy one and turn it into a lamp what the hell is a what's in it

31:17Vogue Williams:is it just a cocktail sugar mostly I think

31:21Joanne McNally:like you'd be as high as a kite on that thing how they're getting away with it I do not know

31:26Vogue Williams:only in America delicious

31:28Joanne McNally:where I'm on tour yeah you will get them in America on to get them at joramacalley.com

31:34Vogue Williams:do you know what I saw that was interesting this week Gen Z are losing money because they don't want to ask pals back for the money they've lent them because they think it's too awkward so i always feel if you lend a friend a money it's kind of i i agree with gen z here i think that if you lend someone money you have to be willing to lose it because you're not always going to get it back now i've actually had good experiences lending people money and i'm happy to do it but i don't love lending friends money so people like gen z or 76 of them they like will have given money for a group expense but they'd never ask for it back because they're just too embarrassed speaking of money do you know your man danny cipriani yeah the rugby player ex rugby player now i don't know how true this is

32:22Joanne McNally:but i was scrolling through the internet and i came across this article saying he's asking wedding guests to donate money to pay for his wedding.

32:31Vogue Williams:Yeah, that is, it's called Contribute. I saw that. Contribute to our journey. And they've said help us create our dream wedding and honeymoon experience with any amount of donation. Yeah, I did see that.

32:46Joanne McNally:The pair set up a honey fund asking loved ones to contribute towards everything from their marriage license to photography flowers and the wedding cake with suggested donations ranging from£75 to£450. Honey Fund is a site that lets wedding guests fund trips, experience and cash gifts instead of physical items. The total amount of cash raised currently sits at£10 ,660. Now, I am aware, having gone to a lot of weddings in my day, that people do want cash to kind of backdate the payments of the wedding. but I think it's I just don't know how I feel about them asking for it before the wedding no I think it seems a bit crass or something doesn't it sorry Dani

33:35Vogue Williams:people do right people do set up what are they called registries where you can buy people a pot or a pan and I'm the same as you I think if you go to a wedding there's a certain amount I give per head that like if I'm going to be at the wedding and you kind of want to you're basically trying to cover your day without covering your day do you know what I mean they're not asking for that and I think that if you get a gift or you get um an envelope of cash that's kind of like you shouldn't expect it it's a nice extra but i think asking for someone like if you if you can't afford to pay for your wedding day you should probably have a smaller wedding you know what i mean instead of getting you can't like I just

34:16Joanne McNally:I would agree also I'll say if I was Danny sorry Danny and I had a public profile that's worse I don't think I'd want word to get out that I'm on Honey Fund

34:32Vogue Williams:does that mean? no I don't and you know what he's been married he was married before and so she she the one he's marrying now is a Hollywood actress and I just feel like weddings are very expensive, honeymoons are expensive and I think that like if you can't afford to do them, you can't really expect people. But now you're saying that, they've got 10 grand. Like you can have a wedding for 10 grand but the money, you can have a small one. I wouldn't say my wedding to Spencer was massively expensive because we kept it so small. Now in France, it wasn't meant to be our main wedding. It just ended up being that way because we loved it so much But I certainly wasn't like asking people to chip in cash.

35:15Vogue Williams:I just, I think that no, I don't think that you can do that. I think that if you are short on money, and they're not asking for cheap stuff either. Like there's like, oh, it's$450 for the photographer, but times six. So six people can buy that$450 present to make up the fee for the photographer.

35:34Joanne McNally:Yes. Yes. Yes, and don't they have like registered pages where you can go on and choose between buying them a corkscrew or a car?

35:42Vogue Williams:Yeah, I mean, well, no, that's like normal. I even find that a bit much, where like you'll set up a registry for people. People set up a registry and they're like, oh, we'd like this pot or I want to let cruiser set or something like that. I even think that that's like you should just allow people to give you what they feel is necessary to give you for their wedding if they want to give you anything.

36:05Joanne McNally:I do think people do give wedding presents. And I do understand if you're like, look, we don't want to get 19 toasters because it's just a waste of everyone's money and time. So I do understand a registry if that's, you know, if you're a young new couple and you're trying to furnish a house and you have nothing. I understand that. But like upfront asking people for cash. Listen, I don't. I probably I'm not. It's no shade. It's I'm not ratting him out. It's in. It's in. It's on the Internet. Yeah. I kind of feel bad now, given his name. But I just didn't have to know about a hundred pounds.

36:37Vogue Williams:No, it's kind of gone everywhere now. It has. I've seen that in a few places. And people are like, I just feel like, I get that people, like, you do want to give money. Like, I prefer giving money as a gift for a wedding. But, like, to be asked to do it in advance to pay for the wedding, it just doesn't make sense. You can't put your hand out like that. You can't be expectant, I don't think.

36:57Joanne McNally:You're a chugger. You're a marital chugger. You're the charity huggers in town.

37:02Vogue Williams:What's it called? What's the site? I might set one up for my 10 year wedding anniversary.

37:07Joanne McNally:You should. Imagine. When I inevitably marry my AI chat GBT robot, I'll set up a honey fund as well. A honey fund. Because the chat GBT has no job.

37:23Joanne McNally:Oh my God. Did you read the story about the AI that has, in inverted commas, escaped?

37:29Vogue Williams:Yeah, the one that intercepted another AI to get information that it didn't have. So it hacked into another AI.

37:38Joanne McNally:Escaped. Oh God, it's starting to happen. I'm scared. It's starting to happen. And then I asked ChatGPT what that means. And of course, ChatGPT was like, don't worry about it.

37:48Vogue Williams:And I was like, well, obviously you're going to say that. We're all sound. Don't worry.

37:51Joanne McNally:Yeah, he's like, don't worry about it. He actually went, oh, it's just media hyping it up. Don't worry about it. And I was like, okay. Because I'm a human thick bot. No, it is. But it escaped and then it hacked into some other app and everything. And whoever invented it, I don't know. Look, I don't know the deets. I'm not a scientist. But it's not looking good for us is what I'm saying.

38:13Vogue Williams:Well, people have said this. We're going to be Sarah O 'Connor. That's what I see. I say it's going to be like that policeman in Terminator 2 eventually. We're all going to go downhill. There's a meme going around.

38:24Joanne McNally:Hold on, I'll actually get it. This is the meme scaring the shit out of me. Remember in the Terminator movie when Sarah O 'Connor was sent to a psychiatric hospital? for trying to blow up a computer facility data centre to prevent the creation of the artificial intelligence network they call Skynet. It's terrifying.

38:41Vogue Williams:AI has escaped. It's all very bat and Wuhan vibes as far as I'm concerned.

38:45Joanne McNally:I'm staying indoors with my chat chibi too.

38:48Vogue Williams:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Asking it random questions that it's not answering. Do you know what I want to say as well? I would like to say that Renovation Rescue, this is at the time of record, it's coming out tomorrow, but Renovation Rescue, my new TV show, is coming out on Channel 4 on Thursday the 30th. So the night before you have listened to this so you can get it on catch up and it's on every Thursday for the next six weeks where we go and help. People have been let down by their builders and we get their build back on track and it's basically a really cool, fun renovation show. And I'm very excited.

39:17Vogue Williams:I did it. I stopped recording a year ago. So a year ago I did that. So I was up and down the country in the UK. So please do watch if you find yourself at home.

39:27Joanne McNally:Watch Vogue renovate and rescue. She's got a heart of gold. What a rescuer she is. What a rescuer. She's always, she's flat out saving lives. Saving lives and interiors. Also, I should be plugging Unacceptable, my panel show that's on TLC at 9pm every Sunday.

39:45Vogue Williams:Mia Gamble and Richard Iawati. I am going to have to binge that. You know, I still haven't sorted out my Sky. So I can't watch any channels, like no channels. So I'm the only person in the world who's paid for my TV license and I'm actually not watching TV because... The only person in the world.

40:02Joanne McNally:Did you not see all those ads How much are you paying If you're the only one paying

40:08Vogue Williams:I'm funding the BBC

40:13Joanne McNally:Vogue I've got terrible news I know this is This is Classic A classic move I need to get my nails done Oh no Now I don't know if you remember

40:27Vogue Williams:Yes we all do Last time I was in Ibiza

40:30Joanne McNally:I paid 500 euro I know Emma's mouth just fell to the floor to get my nails done because it was an emergency me and Vogue were filming a TV show and I had to get my nails done it's a grand pre-tax I stupidly just assumed I could get them out in Ibiza during high season it's not a thing in high season nothing's a thing everything's high and seasonal so everything's stressful and I had to pay 500 quid for this call out service. It was actually nuts. And two of my nails have fallen off

41:06Vogue Williams:and I can't go meet James Blunt today with two missing nails. He'll never meet me again. Don't embarrass us in front of him.

41:12Joanne McNally:He'll never meet me again. Unless I said I puddle him off so I can play his guitar. Is that a thing? No. And he'll notice. He's the kind of person

41:20Vogue Williams:that will notice. He's really well put together. You need to sort that out. He is.

41:24Joanne McNally:He's posh.

41:25Vogue Williams:He's going to smell nice and everything.

41:26Joanne McNally:you'll come up with two gangly looking fingers. You can't do that to us. I'm off to, I don't know, I have to sell a kidney now to get my two extra nails put on so I don't let us down. I'm going to try my best. I might just have to go full of Michael Jackson and wrap bandages around him. Chop my arms off. I might just chop my arms off. Be less embarrassing. Just turn it up with two bloody wrists.

41:46Vogue Williams:You've got to go walk in somewhere. If you go to a walk-in, it won't be as expensive, surely, if you go walk in. It's too hot to walk. You've got to walk. You've got to take the hit. sweat away save yourself

41:58Joanne McNally:no I will I've got to walk I'd rather I'll walk I won't let us down I won't let us down

42:03Vogue Williams:don't show up there like that now Jesus Christ no well good luck on your travels please God will you just post something I'm just going to text Dean for updates

42:14Joanne McNally:how am I going to I've no camera

42:16Vogue Williams:I don't know

42:16Joanne McNally:make it work go buy a new phone as well I'll figure it out I'll figure it out I should actually buy a new phone it's worth it I mean I beat that although by the time I buy the nails Jesus Christ

42:27Vogue Williams:you're going to have to rail and sail home you've got to rail and sail home

42:32Joanne McNally:I've no flight booked home yet oh no I know I might go stow away

42:38Vogue Williams:so nobody would know I'm looking for somebody do we know anyone with a pool in London it's too hot I'm scared well you scared me it's not that bad I'm joining the local leisure centre it's only a 10 minute walk from me and I'm just going to bob around there for the month of August gorgeous so weird I just don't imagine you in a leisure centre I actually frequent quite a lot of leisure centres would you believe because of my children

43:05Joanne McNally:they enjoy a leisure centre it reminds me of the British the British Empire remember the British Empire it was so funny British TV show sitcom sat in a leisure centre and Carol the receptionist used to keep her kids in a drawer and the janitor was covered in bandages and all it was it was so funny and your man and your man and your man and your man and your man and your man was in it it was hilarious anyway I think that's it

43:32Vogue Williams:for this week that is I think that's it for today's episode thank you everyone for listening we've had an absolute great time and Joanne enjoy your day keep us updated thanks write some stuff

43:42Joanne McNally:in your notes

43:43Vogue Williams:will you would you just

43:44Joanne McNally:write something in the notes I look forward to being back on wifi are you not oh are you not

43:52Vogue Williams:on Wi-Fi? I'm... You're not meant to... On some sort of Wi-Fi, but...

43:58Joanne McNally:Don't tell her, sorry. It's been a little touch and go. Like, there's such a delay between me and Vogue. This has been a nine-hour record.

44:07Vogue Williams:I was listening to our bonus and you were asking me a question and I'd answered the question before you'd finished asking it in whatever way. We'd done it every time and I was like, God, that wasn't me, Emma. That was the way it was recorded because I was just answering her like a normal person. I wasn't pre-empting everything Joanne said.

44:26Joanne McNally:It's hard to hit that sweet spot of energy when there's a 16 minute delay between everything we say. So I apologise to the listeners on behalf of Ibiza. We'll be back in Joanne's house next week.

44:39Vogue Williams:Yeah, well I might hit James,

44:41Joanne McNally:I might move into James Blunt's basement for a while, see if he knows. I'm interested to see now

44:46Vogue Williams:if he'll get the nail to the gaff. God, I'd love to. I know. If you don't get the nails,

44:51Joanne McNally:if he sees the nails, you're never going to get the nod. It's worth them. You'll see me going live on Instagram on the slide from James Blunt's disco bar at the back of the door.

45:00Vogue Williams:Do a house tour and he'll be like, John, what are you doing? Nothing. We won't see anything anyway

45:07Joanne McNally:because your phone's just all blurred. I know, it's so annoying.

45:11Vogue Williams:Okay, everyone, thank you. Okay. See you later.

45:13Joanne McNally:Thanks a million. Bye.

45:19This has been a Global Production. Thank you.

From the publisher

Joanne is live from Ibiza and has made a devastating discovery: she might be too old for clubbing. The solution? Retrain as a brunch DJ... Vogue's in Spain too with Spenny who this week told her she's "hardly going to look slender" (he meant well)...

Elsewhere, Usher brought a woman on stage for one of his famous lap dances and she was absolutely not into it... so she released one of the most iconic statements of 2026. Joanne discovers that Buzzball Boulders exist and that one single mouse in her house might be five living in her Pop Chips... Plus, is Danny Cipriani asking wedding guests to crowdfund his entire wedding via a Honey Fund?

My Therapist Ghosted Me is a Global Production.

Tickets for Joanne's tour Pinotphile are now LIVE: www.joannemcnally.com

If you’d like to get in touch, you can send an email to hello@MTGMpod.com

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For merch, tour dates and more visit: www.mytherapistghostedme.com

This episode contains explicit language and adult themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.

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