In short
Michelle De Swarte joins Joanne McNally on My Therapist Ghosted Me to swap awkward-friendship tour stories, TV/jungle show chatter, and hot takes on “self-care” marketing for kids, plus anecdotes about Sonic the Hedgehog, dating/men helping with luggage, and comedy-tour promotion.
Guest backgrounds
Michelle De Swarte is a stand-up comedian, actress, and writer; she’s also done TV presenting and comedy-festival work, and has appeared as a panel replacement on I’m a Celebrity (after Jack Osbourne’s illness).
Key claims
Friendship dynamics change when friends work together (they “blank” each other on trains/gigs). “Self-care” face masks for 5-year-olds are creepy because they push aging/beauty routines too early. In jungle TV, the “stink” and gagging challenges are intense; Vogue should be voted for. Men will help more if they’re attracted; otherwise they won’t lift heavy luggage.
Notable examples
Train breakdown to Manchester; BBC writers’ dinner that turned out to be mostly white men; I’m a Celebrity panel replacement; jungle critter-stench and “gagging” moments; Sonic mascot in Sega World getting punched by kids; a digital clean-out after realizing she’s still paying phone insurance; Uber drivers not helping with a heavy suitcase; Joanne’s upcoming Irish arena date.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOAwkward Train Encounters
0:45 to 2:14
Joanne and Michelle share a funny story about a train ride to a gig and their friendship dynamics.
“Like, I just don't like the full situation of it.”
Gigging and Car Sharing
2:14 to 3:42
They discuss the challenges and peculiarities of sharing rides and moments with fellow comedians.
“I do this now, like I'll be, you know, if I leave a gig and I'm with someone, I'll just tell them straight.”
Networking Awkwardness
3:42 to 5:08
Michelle recounts a networking dinner that turned out different than expected, highlighting social discomfort.
“And then this commissioner, who I love, stood at the elevator.”
I’m a Celebrity Story
5:08 to 8:00
Michelle shares her experience on 'I'm a Celebrity' and reflects on its intensity and personal growth since then.
“I said, yeah, this is not what I thought it was.”
Family and Ambition
8:00 to 10:54
They discuss the ambitious nature of celebrities and how it compares to their own lives and ambitions.
“So at this point, I'm not confidently saying I wouldn't do anything.”
Vote Vogue and VPNs
10:54 to 12:20
Joanne and Michelle talk about supporting Vogue in the jungle and the complexities of voting from abroad.
“I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.”
Kid-Friendly Skincare Controversy
12:20 to 14:00
The conversation shifts to a new skincare line for kids, raising concerns over child marketing practices.
“It gets to a point where like I don't even, it doesn't matter why I pronounce your name.”
The Rise of Child Beauty Products
14:00 to 15:00
Explore the troubling trend of beauty products marketed to children.
“So you can also detox and recuperate with mummy.”
Self-Care and Aging
15:00 to 17:10
Discussion on how young children perceive aging and self-care.
“And retaining your youth, which at five years old, yeah, if you're like, I must keep my skin like, baby.”
Generational Differences in Self-Care
17:10 to 20:00
Comparing self-care practices across generations and their implications.
“Like, I just feel like self-care is increasingly becoming, being stagnant and not doing anything.”
Show all 21 chapters
The Art of Saying Goodbye
20:00 to 22:40
A humorous look at the struggles of saying goodbye and social interactions.
“Sometimes we're like 20 voice notes in and I'll just ring Michelle and Michelle will ring me and be like, look, we need to take this live.”
Friendship Dynamics
22:40 to 25:40
Insight into how clear communication can improve friendships, especially with men.
“I'm at Megan's pass by if you want I'm like oh god no where is she I thought we had fun we connected This is what I was going to say to you.”
Digital Cleanouts and Life Lessons
25:40 to 28:00
Michelle shares her experiences with managing digital subscriptions and finances.
“And I just want to say, You know, like, because I've got guy friends, I've had friends for ages, yeah, and sometimes you forget.”
Losing the Phone Adventure
28:00 to 28:45
Hear a humorous story about losing a phone in a night out and its unexpected return.
“this guy comes in and he's like, selling a magazine and he's like, and I was like, no, no, no, no, just take the money.”
Struggles with Admin
28:46 to 29:20
Discuss the frustrations of managing finances and admin tasks for creatives.
“That is, when I say I cannot explain how much money I've wasted on direct debits and all this shit.”
Uber Expectations and Gender Dynamics
29:21 to 31:10
A light-hearted discussion about expectations from Uber drivers and gender roles.
Celebrity Interviews and Storytelling
31:11 to 33:06
Exploring the art of storytelling through a recent celebrity interview.
“By the way, you said that you were doing a press...”
Memorable Experiences in Thailand
33:07 to 35:01
Sharing wild anecdotes from a trip to Thailand, including encounters at strip clubs.
“I remember going to a sex show in Bangkok once and one of the girls on stage, she poured water up herself.”
Admiration and Backhanded Compliments
35:02 to 37:01
Discussing compliments and the contrast between looks and talent in performance.
“I would pay good money to watch you get a soapy bath off a dancer.”
Touring and Audience Dynamics
37:02 to 38:04
Insights into the challenges of touring and connecting with audiences.
“And you'll be like, oh God, I'm trying to sell out this arena.”
Evolving Perspectives on Business
38:05 to 39:29
Reflecting on the shift towards a more business-savvy approach in creative careers.
“Because, you know, the first date sold out so quickly.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02Michelle De Swarte:This is a Global Player original podcast.
0:15Joanne McNally:Welcome to My Therapist Ghosted Me with me, Joanne McNally and our stand-in special guest. Because Vogue's off, sucking off parrots in the jungle. Michelle De Swartz. Hello. Hello. Now, we've never worked together before. Michelle's one of our best friends no we haven't Michelle's one of our best friends and she's an amazing stand up fan and actress
0:35Michelle De Swarte:and writer how weird was it yeah when we had to do a gig together and we were like wait what obviously we met in stand up but like
0:45Joanne McNally:it's weird bringing friends when you're friends outside of work and then suddenly you're in a work environment you're like oh hello do you remember when how are you
0:53Michelle De Swarte:we were going to both do a gig in Manchester and I'd seen you on the train and I blanked you because I thought I can't I hate sitting on trains with anybody. Like, I just don't like the full situation of it. And even though me and Joanne live moments away from each other's houses, have slept in the same bed many a time. I saw you on the train. I was like, no fucking way. Anyway, then the train breaks. But that's what she would have wanted. Yes. So that's what happened, right? So then the train breaks down, like a couple of stops from Manchester. And then I text Joanne from the train. I was like, hey, listen, man, I'm going to see your train.
1:24Michelle De Swarte:I saw you on the train, but I thought, and you texted back. You went, thank God, this is why we're friends. Yeah. I was like, we're on the same train. I didn't want to say hello because it's brutal. But now the train's broken down, we might have to get an Uber. We should probably do that together.
1:37Joanne McNally:Yeah, I know. We're like, we're in work mode now, Michelle. How does this work? Do you know what I mean?
1:41Michelle De Swarte:And then we got to the gig and pretty much blanked each other. Like, we were just talking to other people. Totally. But then I remember coming back on the train. I saw you and I went, hey, and you went, no. Not until we're in Clatham.
1:52Joanne McNally:But that's because we have our own friendship outside of work. Do you know what I mean? And then it puts a different dynamic on it. But I will say, I know I can be a bit of a hermit at times, but I'm very good now. I'd be like, I would sit, I'd be in your orbit, but not chatting. I'm comfortable enough with you now that I'd be like, I'd sit on the same carriage as you, but not beside you. No thanks. That's enough.
2:16Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, that's a real friendship. Yeah, it is. I do this now, like I'll be, you know, if I leave a gig and I'm with someone, I'll just tell them straight. I'm like, this is good. you see when we get on this train we have to sit separately I can't bear the idea of us having to chat for this whole journey and normally the person's like thank fuck for that I know I'm like yeah I know I've released you
2:36Joanne McNally:like I remember when I started gig and it still happens but it's more it's a different vibe now and you'd car share to gigs no which I know we're kind of over that now well I still car share with Gareld and whatever the tour manager yeah but that's different it is different it's different now it is different but me and Gareld have a rule on the road growled and real on the road that we don't speak at breakfast. So we're like, we just pass each other like two chips in the night at the buffet. You've got to have that. Don't even look at me. Don't even look at me. You've got to have that. Yeah, you do.
3:06Joanne McNally:It's important.
3:07Michelle De Swarte:It is. Even like lifts and stuff. Like, I mean, Jo, I don't know how you felt, but when you came to get me at reception, that moment while we waited for the lift, I was like, I can't talk. I can't talk. Because this is excruciating. This is so awkward. I complimented Michelle on her body of work. Yeah. Yeah, well you would. Yeah. It's an intense party. And then we were like, yeah. This is brutal. Was that me? Were you doing me? No, of course not. That sounded like you were doing me.
3:32Joanne McNally:Well, Santa very like him, so I'm guessing it was him.
3:36Michelle De Swarte:I was doing some, like, one of those comedy festival things. And it was in the morning, and we were at the hotel. And I'd had breakfast. And then this commissioner, who I love, stood at the elevator. Or the lift, sorry. And he goes, he was like, after you. And I was like, you know what, John? I'm sorry, mate. I can't get in this lift with you. It's just too awkward. And he was like, oh, okay, you go first. And I was like, thanks. I was just like, this is too brutal. And then he sent me an email after. He was like, solid work. I really respect that. I was like, yeah, thanks. Because you know what I don't want to do after a night of being on the piss and pretending you're networking is then in the morning in the cold light of day, be in a lift with you for up to 50 seconds.
4:14Michelle De Swarte:No way. No. No thanks.
4:16Joanne McNally:You have a very good ability to, like, say, say what you really think without offending anyone.
4:26Michelle De Swarte:It's a wild ability. I don't think... It's not... I wouldn't say without offending anyone, but I feel like it is... Like, I have an inability not to say sort of what's going on in my mind in real time.
4:41Joanne McNally:You're less of a people pleaser than I am. I think I'm more of a people pleaser than you. I think you're just like, it is what it is.
4:47Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, I have a low... Yeah, I'm not great. I'm not great in them situations. I'm not great. do you know what last night right I went to this um it was like uh it was like a work mixer thing for like writers and creatives and whatever and so I got this email from this like lovely woman um called Madeline I think her name is and she'd arranged last year she did like black women um uh that that that write scripts and stuff so like showrunners and all of that and it was like this big get together at BBC I think I came to your house after actually so it was there and so when she sent me the message I thought oh it's the year of that like that's coming up again so I've said yeah i'd love to come and she was like intimate dinner at um mildred's and i was like oh amazing i walked in the room and i was like it's just like loads of white men i was like what's what's going on and she was like oh michelle's so nice to have you i went this ain't what i thought it was i thought this was black women in scripted tv and she was like yeah no well there are some black people i look yeah no like obviously i'm happy to be here but and she You went, yeah, you wouldn't.
5:46I said, yeah, this is not what I thought it was.
5:50Michelle De Swarte:And then every person I spoke to through dinner was like, hey, why are you here? I was like, well, because I thought it was something completely different. But I'm happy to be here. But yeah, I just can't say it. It's so bad.
6:02Joanne McNally:Yeah, especially when, I mean, that's a pretty big disappointment. That's a proper pivot.
6:06Michelle De Swarte:It ended up being a lovely evening.
6:12Michelle De Swarte:Can I tell you about my full circle moment? Please. with I'm a Celeb. So when I was a humble TV presenter, before I started stand-up, I did some random show, right? And then, so I got a phone call saying Jack Osborne was meant to be on the panel for I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here Now after after, whatever the fuck it was, right? Yeah. But he's got swine flu. Do you remember when that was a thing? Oh, fancy. And we're looking for a last-minute replacement. And because I was modelling at the time, I could get visas really quickly. So they shipped me in to be his replacement on the panel to talk after.
6:45Michelle De Swarte:and I just think in a weird circle obviously I'm fucking reaching here but now Vogue is in the jungle with Jack Osborne and I'm feeling that is weird I'm another filler that is weird though isn't it yeah but let me tell you something right so even when I went there even though it was years ago you know what and they spoke about it last night when they did their challenge so if you didn't see it the challenge was that the four contestants had to be in a giant cot while they had to tell the rest of the camp clues about a bedtime story they've got. So let's say it's Rapunzel, but they couldn't say Rapunzel.
7:20Michelle De Swarte:They couldn't say hair. They couldn't say, do you know what I mean? Like oral charades. Exactly, right? So they're doing that. While bugs are being dumped on them, and they mentioned it last night, is that the smell. So when I went into the jungle, they get to show you, they show you where they keep the critters and this and that, and the jungle, the kind of compound, I guess, is what you call it. But when I say the stench of where they keep, it fucking stinks. It stinks. And you know me, spectrum, spectrum. There's no way. Would you never do it? Would you ever? No. Listen, I'm about to move into a place and get a mortgage.
8:00Michelle De Swarte:So at this point, I'm not confidently saying I wouldn't do anything. Yeah, I know. Do you know what I mean? Of course. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. The self-employed fear is real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, right now, no. No one's asking. But right now, no. You'll have to be when no one's asked you and you're like, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do it. They're like, no one's fucking asking you, babes. But it stinks. And plus they're chucked. And the amount of shit they chucked on her and she was still talking. I would have. I'm very proud of her. She's doing very, very well. One sweets for the camp.
8:32Michelle De Swarte:One what? One sweets candy for the rest of the camp. She won sweets for the camp, she did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, you know what I was thinking as well, right? because Spencer, Spencer's running around. I know. Yeah. And the Antarctic person. Never has a more literal meaning for that word, be more calming, I guess, for any person who's got their lover. Running around, literally running around. Yeah. And she's in the jungle, and you're just like, what? You know, as you're a kid, you get older, what are you going to do? I know. What are you going to do? Oh, when my parents were this age, one was doing a marathon in each country over seven days, and my mum was, do you know what I mean?
9:08Michelle De Swarte:just getting crap jumped on her.
9:10Joanne McNally:Their ambition and drive makes me want to, like, take a nap between the two of them. And look, don't get me wrong. I'm ambitious. You're ambitious. We have drive.
9:18Michelle De Swarte:No, not like that. No, not like that.
9:20Joanne McNally:No. We're not like that. No, we're not. No. No, but she is, like, I think she's so suited to this TV show. She's sound. She's a team player. Yeah. She's competitive. She has the right mix for it. But, like, because obviously I've been watching her in there. I forgot how full on in it. Like, the shit they're making them eat and all. Like, I actually forgot how intense it is. Like, you're not just going in and fannying around in a campsite. You're properly in it. I'll tell you what, though. That gagging.
9:52Michelle De Swarte:That gagging. Gagging. That went through me. Yeah. And if you don't think that is going to turn up on some questionable websites. Kelly Brooke gagging. Yeah. Yeah. Vogue squad.
10:06Joanne McNally:Did you see? there was a really cute video Vogue because Vogue's squatting in the jungle because she's built an ass for herself and she's trying to keep it and they asked someone else
10:14Michelle De Swarte:I thought you meant like squatting taking a shit or something I was like wow there's cameras everywhere
10:19Joanne McNally:she uh they got a vote they asked Gigi they were like her daughter they're like what do you think she'd be doing in the jungle and Gigi started squatting she's like no she's like mimicking I know she's so cute I mean look
10:29Michelle De Swarte:I'll say this they got they got a good group in there Eddie Caddy's in there for that comedian he is have you worked with Eddie? no He's a dream. He is an absolute dream. Ruby Wax is in there. She's killing it, isn't she? Come on. Yeah, I know. Like, love her. Yeah. In my mind, I feel like it would be Vogue and Ruby. Do you reckon? Yeah.
10:49Joanne McNally:I thought it'd be fantastic. Wouldn't it? I hope so, yeah. My only concern is Ireland can't vote. So I'm trying to arrange a bus to get the whole country to go up to Belfast for the day so we can all dial in. Ireland can't vote. Very racist. People are talking about VPNs. Are they? That's a great idea, yeah.
11:04Michelle De Swarte:I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. I've VPN. What do you mean? How do you phone?
Read the full transcript
11:08Joanne McNally:Do you phone in? No one phones in anymore. So you can vote on the app and you can vote online as well.
11:13Michelle De Swarte:And I'm just saying VPNs. Yeah, that's all VPNs. I'm not saying that attached to anything. I don't know if it's naughty or not. I'm just saying for no reason whatsoever, VPNs. Yeah. Ireland.
11:25Joanne McNally:Yeah. Or take a day trip up to Belfast. Girls Day O's. Yeah, great city.
11:30Michelle De Swarte:Keep in mind, Vogue, she's in there getting shit chucked on her.
11:35Joanne McNally:Vote for her. Exactly. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Just vote for it. She deserves it. Yeah.
11:40Michelle De Swarte:Make it happen. Yeah.
11:45Michelle De Swarte:Joe, is that you?
11:46Joanne McNally:She takes calls in here and all. I can't give a flying shoo what we're doing. Sometimes he just disappears off the Zoom. We're like, hello. Because me and Vogue have this ongoing situation where when he's not watching us, we tone it down. It's like we're basically performing for Joe. Yeah, we're like, daddy, look, look, look, daddy. Do you know what I was thinking this morning? and even though I don't know if your surname is Swarth or Swart. It's the Swart. The Swart. But you know what? I say the Swart.
12:13Michelle De Swarte:You're still in my phone as Joanna. Am I? Yeah. Oh, that's cute. Even though you was like stop calling me that. I was like, sure.
12:21Joanne McNally:Yeah. You know what? It's so funny. It gets to a point where like I don't even, it doesn't matter why I pronounce your name. It doesn't matter at this point. Why would you say my last name? Michelle de Swart. Yeah. Do you think that you're a Madonna we could just say Michelle?
12:32Michelle De Swarte:No, but I imagine that like Oh, for me? Sorry, I thought you meant the listeners. It's Michelle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michelle Obama, take a bloody seat, babes. Because I'm going by the uncommon name of Michelle.
12:44Joanne McNally:It's like when Kylie tried to take Kylie. She tried to trademark her own name off Kylie Minogue. Kylie's like, no.
12:50Michelle De Swarte:But also, I love that Kylie just came back and was like, excuse me. No, girl. One lip gloss. You think that's going to... I know. You think that is going to overtake I'm spinning around?
13:01Joanne McNally:I know. Well, she has her wine. but I think I think they had to go to court over it yeah they did yeah because Kylie
13:09Michelle De Swarte:lip lady hold on Jenner Kylie Jenner Kylie Jenner was like who yeah and all of us millennials yeah and Gen X's were like who are you
13:21Joanne McNally:how dare you but I think Kylie Jenner would be more like bigger than Kylie Minogue at this point just for if you're was that a terrible thing to say not for us but for the young like there's a difference in numbers of like TikTok numbers and stuff anyway they're cheeky but you know they're like Kris Jenner trademarked momager
13:40Michelle De Swarte:do you know what which brings me to yeah so you know the new skincare the new skincare for the kids
13:49Joanne McNally:yeah so I mean Michelle we were sending we swap we're great we swap a lot of memes but I send you the photo of there's a skincare business that have made face masks for babies
14:01Michelle De Swarte:For five-year-olds. Yeah, starting range. So you can also detox and recuperate with mummy. Are you all right? Is everyone all right? But anyway, so when that first came out, you know Kris Jenner was kicking herself. Do you reckon? Oh, she's looking at all of her grandkids and she's like, you lot are sleeping on the job. You're not making me any money. You just know that she was like, how did I not think of this?
14:28Joanne McNally:I actually went right about it. it's basically like they're going to be giving them little fake asempic pans at some stage so they can shoot up like mummy does there's actual products in the face they're not just wet there's products in the face masks it makes no sense
14:43Michelle De Swarte:well alright this is what I think is worrying about it yeah it's like it's one thing you know we kind of all realised when that whole toddlers and tiara franchise was out that's like we probably shouldn't be putting kids in makeup do you know what I mean like they're not they're too young they're too young but like you know you're a kid and you try and get a bit of nail varnish or whatever But this isn't about that. This is about self-care. Yeah. And retaining your youth, which at five years old, yeah, if you're like, I must keep my skin like, baby. I know. Literally. I know. This is, like, your skin's never going to look like this again.
15:19Michelle De Swarte:I know, you've got the skin that we're all trying to get. Why are you doing anything to us? Yeah, but also just to be seeing yourself, think of yourself as aging at that age. because you know like all the tweens are already going Space and K and they're getting drunk Elephant and all of these brands that I'm like I was gassed when they put quarter moisturiser in a bar of dove I was like ooh me self care but like
15:39Joanne McNally:are we alright I know but also what's happening is it's ruining their so there's all the I love I follow loads of dermatologists I'm a board certified dermatologist you know these ones I'm sure you're obviously batting as well we love skin me and Michelle we love same obviously me and Vauhti too but we fucking love you I live for it It's a hobby at this point.
16:00Michelle De Swarte:Yeah. I love it. I panic buy skincare routines and like just stuff and like, oh, I'll get a bit of filler. I'm feeling a bit down. Like someone would buy shoes. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm like, ah. Yeah. I feel sad.
16:15Joanne McNally:Yeah. Maybe I could fill the void with filler. I know. Yeah. That's our generation's problem. When we were younger, we'd buy hoop earrings. Now we get tit lifts because we can. And we're being sold as shit all the time. But the photo they used of the girl, the little girl, what age was she, like seven?
16:31Michelle De Swarte:Barely. She looked... She looked rough as fuck. She did need that. She didn't need that face mask to be found. This girl's been on the piss. Someone's been up all night. She, her eyes, she looked, she looked frightened. At first glance, yeah, when you see that picture, because what she's got is like a collagen mask on her face. Yeah. But because you're not used to seeing a child that age do like what is self-care. you look at it and you're like, is this kid got cling film on her face? Like, what's going on? I know. I just, I just, I'm just like, it's like the self-care and the recuperation of it.
17:04Michelle De Swarte:And you just kind of go, as a kid, when did self-care become staying in and relaxing from your hard day's graft at school? I know, I know. Do you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like self-care is increasingly becoming, being stagnant and not doing anything. Like, I was chatting to Ashley's story the other day and she was like she goes oh she was like I've been in for a couple of days and I was like and she's like I need to wash and I was like do you know what I do the same where I think a me day is not washing my fanny you know what I mean
17:33Joanne McNally:just staying in and like yeah rotting
17:36Michelle De Swarte:yeah
17:36Joanne McNally:but we're also in our 40s now wash your fucking minge do you know what I mean that's self care but that is important that is important and I've always been saying so sometimes I've always been saying wash your minge wash your minge every day I'm always bringing you reminding you nothing says self care more than washing your fanny the 8am call to Michelle Michelle, you're washing your minutes today now, Michelle. Come on. You know it's good for morale. Yeah, I'm like, no, I'm having a mead day, babe.
18:00Michelle De Swarte:Nothing says me than lying in bed, shoving a finger down my pants and having a sniff. I'm like, that's marinated. Lovely.
18:06Joanne McNally:Fucking gross. Oh, God. I did a big fat quiz last night. Oh, how was it? It was actually a really good crack. But I was on a team with Judy Love, and as the camera came up, she was making me sniff her fingers because she was like, they smell a kebab. So the opening shot is me literally leaning in, smelling her fingers. Can we talk? Judy Love. Yeah.
18:26Michelle De Swarte:She's good bloody value, isn't she? Oh, she's fantastic. I just filmed a TV show with her over summer and she was so funny because I think it was her first acting job. And so she was just looking at me. We were like the stand-up comics on the show and it's called School to be out in Channel 4 in the spring.
18:41Joanne McNally:Is this your... Were you in it with her?
18:44Michelle De Swarte:Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I was just hanging around. Do I, Judy? Hey-ya! No, but she just kept on looking at me like, are we doing this again? I was like, yeah, babes. from every angle and she was like it's not like stand up is it but she was so fun to work with
18:57Joanne McNally:yeah no she's grey crack oh I love her I find like I haven't done that much acting but I do find the days are so long it is it's fucking boring
19:07Michelle De Swarte:it is it's boring to go from doing a TV show to back to doing stand up I feel like Dick Van Dyke and Mary Poppins yeah I'm a one man band look at me go go do the sound check testing testing ta ta
19:20Joanne McNally:you've done the sitcom thing like I get asked to go like I get asked you know people are like are you going to do this ago and I'm like I don't really like maybe I know how hard they are you know how hard they are to get off the ground and then the length of time that you've spent riding a shoes I know how hard you worked on spent
19:36Michelle De Swarte:it's monotonous yeah and like the truth is I think there's just like a lot of pressure to like you know like you feel like you're meant to be riding like Kerry Bradshaw and it's like you're not do you know what I mean I'd say I have an hour a day I've got an hour and a walk an hour and a walk an hour and like let me text some people you know you know you're procrastinating when you start calling your mates like you alright I just want to check in it's been on my mind it's like no ringing your mum and all yeah yeah yeah what are you doing you're really trying to dodge something
20:06Joanne McNally:sorry Pat I love you what are you up to I'm like what are your plans for the weekend mum she's like what is this and like my mum's like she's good on the phone but she's also she's a she's quick to let you go like and I love I love a quick phone call you know me I love a voice and I'm a bit of a phone dodger, as Michelle knows. Sometimes we're like 20 voice notes in and I'll just ring Michelle and Michelle will ring me and be like, look, we need to take this live. We need to raw dog this new.
20:30Michelle De Swarte:But we definitely limber up to it. Do you know what my mum does? She just hangs up and then pretends that something was wrong. But she always makes sure it's mid-centres. But it's like, listen, Helen, the jig is up. You've been doing this for years, right? That's so funny. She will just be like, yeah, and then it'll just go dead. and then I try and call her back and then she'll WhatsApp me and go, my phone died. Oh, really? Because you're WhatsAppping me. That is so funny. What do you think? This is a letter. You don't think I don't know that they're connected? She's doing the Irish goodbye
21:04Joanne McNally:on the phone. That is hilarious. Yeah. That's a good one. Pat just goes, look, I'll let you go. And I'm like, I've literally, we barely said hello. And she's like, I'll let you go, I'll let you go.
21:12Michelle De Swarte:I never heard the expression of the Irish goodbye until I was in America.
21:17Joanne McNally:Oh. And then I was like, oh, should we be, is it appropriate? I know. No, I think Irish goodbye is still fine. Things like Chinese whispers and stuff is gone now, hasn't it? Probably, I think. Yeah.
21:31Michelle De Swarte:To be clear, an Irish goodbye is just leaving and not saying anything.
21:34Joanne McNally:Yeah, which is what Helen's doing to you on the phone, basically. Yeah. Do you know how many, I remember reading this article once and it was talking about the amount of time, like there was some, now that I'm about to say it out loud, it's probably one of my, it's probably completely made up. But they were saying, but push on
21:50Michelle De Swarte:regardless we don't fact check here it's probably completely completely completely made up as I was saying yeah factually
21:58Joanne McNally:I'm not on Global News Agent at this point that the amount they were saying something like you'll save four years off your life by not saying goodbye at house parties or something like this do you know the way and I do I hate I do hate saying goodbye oh no I just go yeah you're an absolute you're gone bye ta ta yeah I'm like Michelle you alright and she's gone out the door down the road well because I know
22:20Michelle De Swarte:especially with you if I get caught up in any kind of chat I'm waking up in your bed yeah yeah yeah do you know what I mean and you won't be there yeah I know
22:29Joanne McNally:we go hard
22:30Michelle De Swarte:it always feels like a one night stand I wake up and I'm like where is she and I open up my phone I'm at just leave a little
22:37Joanne McNally:toothbrush out for you and all
22:39Michelle De Swarte:don't contact me for a week I'm at Megan's pass by if you want I'm like oh god no where is she I thought we had fun we connected
22:52Michelle De Swarte:This is what I was going to say to you. Judy loves fingers smell like kebab.
22:55Joanne McNally:Well, I said, Judy, I'll be honest, there is a little odour. But only when you really... She practically got her fingers up my nose. Only when I suck them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only when I eat them. So I fucking love Mr. Blobby. Oh, I saw that post. Now I know, I bet you don't like Mr. Blobby. Michelle was very against my LeBouBou stage
23:18Michelle De Swarte:No, do not put You were against them, you didn't want one Hey man, relax with the gaslighting Because let's not put these two in the same Even in the same category Mr Blobby When was Mr Blobby out? How old was you Joanne? McNally It's so long ago You can barely remember Ten maybe When Mr Blobby came onto the scene When did LeBouBou come onto the scene? A week ago Yeah. All right. You, grown woman, walking around with your LeBooBoo's. Several, actually. I bought loads. It was... I remember when you called me and you was like, I'm going to get you a LeBooBoo. And I was like, don't you fucking dare.
23:56Michelle De Swarte:We are grown women and I will not be dragged down your little LeBooBoo face. It's pathetic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Mr. Bobby, Mr. Bobby, Mr. Blobby. Blobby.
24:05Joanne McNally:Yeah, cool. He's so funny. He's so funny. I didn't know he was coming out last night.
24:11Michelle De Swarte:Oh, you think it's the same person in the... Oh. It's Mr Blobby, isn't it? Yeah! It's weird that every... It's weird that... It's Joanne! How do the mini mouses get to... How does that one mini mouse get to all of the Disney world?
24:24Joanne McNally:I did interior design masters with the blind bear. With the fucking... Pudsey. Pudsey. And it was like... This lad in there, and it was like a billion degrees. But there was loads of kids around, so we couldn't take the thing off. You know, you can't. Do you know what, right?
24:40Michelle De Swarte:I used to work just around the corner from here when I was a teenager. in Trocadero and I used to work in this place called Sega World, right? In the 90s. And the mascot... Sega World,
24:50Joanne McNally:like the computer.
24:50Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, the mascot was Sonic the Hedgehog, right? And thank the Lord, I was a giant as a kid because I was too big to go in this outfit. But I'd have to escort Sonic round Piccadilly Circus, yeah? And so, and it would always be this like shortish girl in there. And so she'd be in the big... And it stunk in there because people are just sweating. But loads of kids would just run past and punch Sonic in the head. It was brutal, mate. It was so brutal. I remember one time she fell on her back like a bug and the hat came off and it was just like... It's a bunch of little wee boys just walking past. They're like, Sonic, bap, bap, bap.
25:31Michelle De Swarte:And they would run off. She lands on her back. She had the Sonic shoes on. Ah, no, thank you.
25:40Michelle De Swarte:Last night... Oh, yeah. And I just want to say, You know, like, because I've got guy friends, I've had friends for ages, yeah, and sometimes you forget. Like, you know, guy friends can be a bit shit. And I've realised you have to give them clear instructions of what you want, and then they will show up as your friends. Yeah. But, like, not in the way that women do. Like, we're like, oh, I get a feeling, I'm checking in, and blah, blah, blah. So, anyway, I bought this table and a desk in Hastings, yeah, and I was down there with my mum, and I saw this table, and I was like, oh, I want it. But how am I going to get it?
26:10Michelle De Swarte:Like, we can't drive. My mum's like, oh, just ask Marcus. And I was like, oh, I don't want to burden him. She was like, no, yeah, do it. Ask him. And so I asked my mate. He lives down there. And he was like, oh, yeah, I'll pick it up. No worries. What? Picked it up for me, then took it to his house. And then I was like, he goes, oh, Michelle, I've got to drop it off now. And I was like, it's been in his house for months, right? And I was like, oh, thanks. And I was like, do I need to come down? He goes, no, no, me and Marco bring it up. And they just brought it up. And I was like, you know what?
26:33Michelle De Swarte:You've got to give them clear instructions. Because sometimes you'll be in the mindset. like me and my mate Amy were chatting and she was like talking about a mutual friend of ours and she was like yeah I just don't think he turns up and he can be a bit shit and this and that and I was like if you called him now at 1am and said come pick up some stuff for me do you think he would do it yeah yeah definitely would do it I said well there you go yeah they're just I got they need clear ask your male friends to do shit for you yeah that's fair that's good advice oh my god you know what else then he said so he came over and he was like okay move in because I was like how do I do my bills and stuff I need help and he was like do you know what we need to do is a digital clean out and I was like a digital clean out and he was like yeah I said what does that even mean and he was like like you've got loads of subscriptions you've got loads of this and then do you know what I realised I was like oh mate I need help I'm still paying the insurance on the phone that I got stolen when we were together in the park I was like I'm still paying for the insurance for it a stolen phone which by the way can I tell you Jo this is I moved back to Clapham or back to South London I was giving Joanne some long speech about gentrification, how I'm from the ends.
27:40Michelle De Swarte:I was like,
27:41Joanne McNally:I'm a blow-in basically, yeah.
27:42Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joanne's lived there for a few years. I've been in New York for nearly 20 years, yeah. I've come back, I'm like, yeah, the thing is, yeah, we meet at a pub, I'm like, oh, this is my gaff. Like, I'm from round here. I've worked in every pub up and down these streets, babes. You see this pub, I used to come here with my money. You're like, I'm giving her all that chat. And as that happens, this guy comes in and he's like, selling a magazine and he's like, and I was like, no, no, no, no, just take the money. I'm talking to Joanne, embarrassing her about her white privilege. Shaming me.
28:09Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, shaming me. Talking to her about how I'm from the ends, giving her this top boy speech. And then Joanne just was, excuse me, one man went, I think you took your phone. I was like, went running down the street, come back, she's like, where is it? I'm like, it's gone. And then we just went on the piss. Yeah. But did you use the insurance policy? Did you claim for the phone? Well, I'd only had the phone for 10 days, so it hadn't kicked in yet. So I had to go buy a new phone. And then like a month later, I forgot about it because I bought a new phone a month later or two months later and the phone turned up in Dubai, didn't it?
28:36Michelle De Swarte:Did it? Yeah. I opened up my laptop and it was like, oh, your phone's been found. And I was like, my phone is chilling on a beach in Dubai. Living its best life. Anyway, I'm still paying.
28:46Joanne McNally:That is, when I say I cannot explain how much money I've wasted on direct debits and all this shit. Like, I paid for two phone bills for two years because I could not figure out there was some, they were like, you need to get a sim and I was like boring
29:04Michelle De Swarte:yeah boring do you know what I do this as well like every time it gets to my VATs and my accountant's like give me all your receipts I'm like yeah but I think I would pay good money to not have to do this admin which is what I end up doing 100 % you know what I mean I'm like I'm not this isn't for me I'm not creative I know I waft around
29:21Joanne McNally:it's not our job no I got an Uber this morning right and do you know the way sometimes Uber goes I have a huge suitcase because I'm going somewhere after and also I've like a load of luggage with me and he didn't get out of the car to help me and I was thinking I was like I bet if he was attracted to me he would have do you know what I mean I just you know what men are like they did some big poll they did some again not factually checked at all some TikTok you know these videos where they kind of prank people on the street and this woman was going around with her luggage and she was struggling but she was like she wasn't they didn't have her dressed up nicely and she wasn't like you know she wasn't glowing as such and like none of the lads helped her and then they put her in like a fucking tank top with no bra and when I say they were all running to help her do you know what I mean yeah it's a thing
30:09Michelle De Swarte:look do you know what it is that like I have this sometimes when I get out of Ubers and it is like you know what you're doing loads of trips I know you know what I'm saying you can't be asked to get out of Uber it's freezing as well it's colder than a witch's tip I'm surprised like what are you doing you're getting out to help me you don't know if I'm going to tip or not you don't know if you're going to get any stars do you know what I mean like whatever I tip all my Uber drivers but I begrudgingly do it when they haven't helped me with my bag yeah yeah yeah yeah and I like to feel righteous so
30:39Joanne McNally:but I agree it's worth the free pound tip I agree sometimes I'm like what happened like I can't I don't I don't care if they get out or not it's the truth I really don't I don't expect it that much I'm actually surprised that many of them do get out but I was just thinking today for some reason because it's really really heavy and actually it would have been the one time I would have liked some help getting it in but I'd never ask them
30:59Michelle De Swarte:but yeah I was like
31:01Joanne McNally:I bet now if I was his type, he would have jumped out because he was kind of a young guy. There you go. I'm obviously too ugly to get help with my suitcase. You are. You should work on that.
31:10Michelle De Swarte:I'm disgusting. Idiot. It's gross.
31:15Michelle De Swarte:By the way, you said that you were doing a press... What did you say? You're going to do a press junket or something? It's a junket.
31:22Joanne McNally:It's a very American term. I should have said press call.
31:25Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, call.
31:26Joanne McNally:Whatever. What for? I'm doing... I put on a three arena in Dublin.
31:32Michelle De Swarte:Fucking hell, Joanne! I know.
31:33Joanne McNally:This is massive. You know that, innit? So I think... First woman to ever do this, right? Well, no. So I know... Oh, look, I know how the press thing goes. And you always need an angle. Who's the other woman? Amy Shearmer did it. Fuck Amy Shearmer. I know!
31:47Michelle De Swarte:Listen! First Irish woman. Irish woman. First Irish woman. Yeah, I know.
31:52Joanne McNally:It's pretty cool, isn't it?
31:53Michelle De Swarte:It's more than cool, mate.
31:55Joanne McNally:So please, if you're listening to this podcast, feel free to join me. do you know when you're talking about yourself all day
32:05Michelle De Swarte:Joanne we've been friends for a while and I think you do it with ease I'm like oh you struggle
32:12Joanne McNally:we're talking about you do you know what I was thinking did you see the Kate Beckinsale interview on Jimmy Kimmel where she talked so Kate Beckinsale it's going around at the moment she's promoting a film at the moment and she was on Jimmy Kimmel live and she was telling a story so the reason I'm telling this is I'm kind of bored of my own story now because you know the way you're doing the interviews and you're talking about the adoption and she told a story about her child's you should watch it it's really funny her daughter's boyfriend she's got a daughter yeah oh wow yeah she's got a daughter with Michael Sheen
32:50Michelle De Swarte:okay so go on and the daughter's like 25
32:52Joanne McNally:so she's telling this story how her daughter's boyfriend laid an egg so she's telling this story like it's a completely true story the internet's going mad over it so the clips are completely viral she is one of the best storytellers I've ever seen and then he laid a different egg and they cracked it open and it was a boiled egg and all that even Jimmy Kimmel's like what where the fuck is this interview going he laid an egg she's just making shit up but she's telling it like it's real it's funny it's entertaining I was like this is what I need I need some fake news stories to go on chat shows with me yeah do you know what I mean
33:28Michelle De Swarte:I would like to see you go on a chat show and ping a boiled egg, fire it out of your fanny and go, you know what?
33:35Joanne McNally:Why not? Nature's pocket. We might as well make more use of it. I remember going to a sex show in Bangkok once and one of the girls on stage, she poured water up herself. Solid. And then kind of squatted over a Coca-Cola bottle and the liquid that came back out of her vagina was like the colour of cola and then she handed it to an audience member and he drank it.
34:01Michelle De Swarte:Well, you know what, Ra? I had a bit of problem a few, maybe, when did I last go to Thailand? I think I was like 30 and I got really obsessed with going to these strip clubs with the trans girls and I was like, I was like an old, I was like an old man. Like I was like, oh, they're so beautiful. Yeah, I was going to the cash point. I was like pulling out loads of money. I was like, oh, they love me. Like, yeah. And then I remember my mate came out. I had some friends and came out and met me. And because I was on my own at first. Anyway, so then I had some friends come out and met me. And I remember me and my mate Simon just being like, yeah, should we go to the strip clubs?
34:41Michelle De Swarte:And then one of them offered us like a soapy bath. He's like, should we go and have a soap? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, no, no, wait. Get back in.
34:47Joanne McNally:Who offered you a soapy bath?
34:49Michelle De Swarte:One of the dancers. It was like, there's another place in the back where you can have a soapy bath. and then I was like, Michelle, it's time to stop. Time to leave these clubs. Stop spending your money.
35:02Joanne McNally:I would pay good money to watch you get a soapy bath off a dancer. Well, so would I.
35:06Michelle De Swarte:That was the problem.
35:07Joanne McNally:I was like, I'm going to pay good money to do this. Lowered into the bath by all these gorgeous women and just getting soaked up. That sounds really sexy. There's a trouble documentary in that. There is. Go back and do what you should have done.
35:18Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm dirty and I need to be washed clean.
35:27Michelle De Swarte:I'm really bad with faces, man. So, like, sometimes I'll be, like, trying to, like, recalibrate in the moment and hope that they don't notice. And they're looking at you like, you don't know. Yeah, I know. Who the fuck I am? Yeah. You just got to call everyone, babe, and keep it moving. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? I once did a gig of my... Keep it moving. Babe, babe!
35:48Joanne McNally:Michelle, my dear friend, do you mind if I blow smoke up your hell for a second? I would love you to. Yeah, I thought you would. You were one of the best stand-ups I've ever seen in my life. Keep it coming. You were so talented. Nice. I'm not even going to talk about your looks, because they're the least interesting thing about you. But go on. But you're a fucking knockout. Thanks, mate. Remember that guy we were with that night?
36:07Michelle De Swarte:Is it awkward being in my company? It is a bit.
36:11Joanne McNally:It is. It is. Yeah. I mean...
36:14Michelle De Swarte:Me coming on your podcast, I'm like, so, what else? But let me find my light. Jo, if you could get the wind machine going, and that would be amazing.
36:24Joanne McNally:Thanks. I just, but you're in a different league but we don't, your looks, we don't even talk about your looks. We've moved on. You're, as a man once said to me and it was the nicest compliment I've ever had in my life, it breaks my heart because I've never had anything as nice said to me before. He said, you're the most beautiful woman I've ever met but it's the least interesting thing about you. Yeah, that's what men say, isn't it?
36:43Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, that's, that's, that's some, that is Hinge Day 101. No, we were in love. Oh, sorry. Yeah. I mean,
36:50Joanne McNally:And if it was Hinged Day 101, I'd be like, that's a bit much. Now, this was back when I used to actually take on men full time in relationships. Now I kind of microdose. But my point is, you're on tour at the moment. Yes. And you are a fucking joy to watch.
37:04Michelle De Swarte:Joanne McNally, thank you. Because I think it's so funny. We're both on tour and we'll chat. And you'll be like, oh God, I'm trying to sell out this arena. I'm like, just did a hundred seater in Southend, mate. And let me tell you something, I'll rip the roof off it. so these are my dates that I've got coming up for the love of fucking God right I know no one can fill up a room with white women more than you
37:30Joanne McNally:it's true sometimes it does look like a rally
37:32Michelle De Swarte:it is oh my god Jo I remember the first time I saw you at the Palladium I was like I didn't know there was this many white women in London let alone in the Palladium I was shooketh anyway please if any of you want to wander on over to me I would love that I'm doing starting from next year. Oxford, yeah? Swindon, Exeter, Southampton, Brighton, Bristol. You c***. Nottingham, Liverpool, Southend. Again, shit. All right. Farnham. Where the fuck is that? Where's Farnham? Do you know what I mean? I don't have to go too far for that. Oh, great. Maidstone. There you go. Have some of that. Please come.
38:10Michelle De Swarte:Is Swindon your Winnipeg? Mate, do you know what? They all are, to be honest. Because, you know, the first date sold out so quickly. And then these days I've done fuck all to promote her. As you know. But you've got such a good, you're so good with that. Like, I always am like, how, if I could talk into the camera at home. Yeah. The way you do. Well, you can. Yeah. You just choose not to. It takes an edit, Michelle. She's not doing that. She ain't doing it off the bat. That's it. That's the seventh take, isn't it? Yeah. She's like, go on now. Pass me the twelfth. The best sell that Joanne does for her tours is when Vogue does it for her.
38:45Michelle De Swarte:Yeah, I store her and stammer on the day. Let's have a little chat because I am. And also, I'd just like to say, as someone who really loves the format, if I was listening to Ghosted now and I have my voice, I'd be like, wait, what? Do you know what I mean? Because I'm a sucker for a format. I like everything to stay the same. So I are. Anyway, as a longtime listener, first time guest, I think it's so what I love. Yeah, it's like I remember in the early days of you doing Ghosted the way you would be like, oh, just the adverts. Oh, my God. me doing the adverts, Michelle, it's so cringe. And now, when I listen to you on Ghosted, it cracks me up because Vogue will be chatting and without missing a beat, you'll be like, well, yeah, exactly, I like drinking water and there's nothing better to hydrate with than, and I'm like, ow, someone is deep in.
39:34Michelle De Swarte:You're like, Vogue, what are you doing for Christmas? Because you know there's nowhere better to shop for for parties and I'm like, hey. It's like seeing your little girl grow up, do you know what I mean? It's so funny. You go from like, it feels so awkward. And you're like, you know what's great for awkwardness? Is better help. I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah. Well, do you know what's so funny? Isn't it, Jo? Do you remember her in the early days? Yeah, at the start, it was terrible. And now she's like, crow.
39:58Joanne McNally:But at the start, I was all about the creative journey of it all. And I am still massively. But I can tell you, as I age, and like you with the mortgage and all, I'm more business-minded now. Even on this paenophile tour, like Prosecco, I don't think I ever looked at a single statement. Settlement, I didn't know how much my ticket price. I knew nothing I knew nothing there was money coming into the account that's all I knew whereas this time I'm like okay let's be a little more business savvy this time around like who's that person on the settlement
40:26Michelle De Swarte:looking at Garoad you can ride there but also be on time you're on a bike you're getting e-scooter to the gig around
40:35Joanne McNally:that's it for this week thanks so much for listening you can follow Michelle at you can follow me
40:39Michelle De Swarte:on Instagram or TikTok it's my name Michelle Deswold nice you see how shit I am at it I know it's really hard it's pathetic isn't it it's so hard Joanne McNally yeah thanks for having me I'm a massive fan of the show have been since day dot so to be here sat with you is nothing short of underwhelming back
41:15Michelle De Swarte:This has been a Global Player original production.
From the publisher
If you haven't tuned in to see Vogue in the jungle yet, you have to... She's amazing in there! Meanwhile, in the studio - there's a podcast to be made - so Joanne invited the fabulous Michelle de Swarte to come in! Expect brutal honesty, tales from behind the scenes on I'm A Celeb and huge concern over skincare aimed at kids...
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This episode contains explicit language and adult themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.