Asteroids, Ariel 1 and Beagle 2

35:29And then we realised, no, we'll be ignored completely. I guess we spent, like a lot of journalists at the time, we spent a lot of time at Milton Keynes going back and forth and filming. And, you know, it's something we're very happy to have been involved with. Maybe we should get a plaque, Rich, don't you think? Yeah, we've got a Christmas decoration. We've still got our Beagle 2 Christmas baubel that was given to us at Airbus in Stephenies. That's still on the tree. No, I've put you over the years. I've lost mine. The only thing, one of the things I have retained is the beer mat where we drew the design of Beagle 2 on the back.

36:04Wow. Oh, that's lovely. Oh, you should, if you could send us a photo of that, That would be lovely if you're happy to share that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'd love to put that up on our website. I can do that. Jim Clemmer and myself actually met with the Pellinger family and the production crew a few weeks ago to go through some of the technical and personal details as well. I'm sure that they're going to do a good job. I haven't seen the script. Colin's son has and he thinks it's a very good script oh great I think a lot of British films like this I mean my mind went to another sort of story that everyone thinks of as a British failure but as somebody they love which was the movie they made of Eddie the Eagle the ski jumper who who came last but was always just kept on going and was participating and then you realize actually to get to that stage is absolutely incredible.

37:07And is it a British production company or an American one? I believe it's a British production company. That's what I wanted to hear, because I think that's what we're good at, these little quirky British films. And it's the first cinema film for the producer and that, in fact. Excellent. Well... It must be very exciting for you, being portrayed on screen. Beagle's become such a part of my life. that in actual fact it sort of just blends into all the other experiences with Beagle 2. It's great that it happens, it's great that it tells a story because people need to know the story. People need to know what the UK is capable of doing.

37:50We're capable of doing all sorts of wonderful, innovative things. And I don't think as a nation we give enough credit to the innovators and the disruptors. Beagle 2 mission manager Mark Sims. And we were talking about Molly Funk before. The legend of Beagle 2 lives on. Absolutely. And Colin Pillinger, in fact. And I'll be looking forward to that film. I think, as we said, I think it could be absolutely fantastic. And I loved his sign-off. I think definitely his to the innovators and disruptors. Colin Pillinger was a disruptor, as was Wally Funk. Well, at the moment, we celebrate another UK mission that came to an untimely end.

38:34This is Space Buffins. We're in partnership with The Naked Scientist.

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39:40do get in touch on facebook instagram x or send us an email to podcast at spaceboffins.com and we ought to mention where we are again don't you think yeah and you you may ask why are we in Germany. We're in Germany, firstly, because our son is doing this challenge Arctic to Africa, which you will have seen probably on our social media feeds, which we've been sharing. So he's been swimming across the Arctic Circle. He's run marathons every day through Sweden. And he's currently cycling through Germany, Belgium, a little bit of the Netherlands, France, Spain, and we'll end up in Africa. So that's why we're in Germany.

40:21And then we thought, well, wouldn't it be great to come to somewhere space related and that is Nordlingen which is just a beautiful town. It's a walled circular medieval town looks something like out of a Grimm's fairy tale book and the reason we're here is because I went here in 2019 with Dallas Campbell to make a radio program about the moon and discovered that there was this enormous asteroid impact crater biggest in in europe absolutely huge and in fact if we look around in the distance we can see the rim of the crater and that's where it's got low-lying clouds you know around it so we're sort of in the central sort of quarry area yeah it's a 25 kilometer wide yeah impact crater apparently i was reading about this in the information when that um asteroid hit the impact so that the pressure wave could be felt right around the world that's right and it was equivalent i think because it was about the asteroid was about a kilometer across and it was something like the equivalent force of a hundred hundred thousand Hiroshima I mean it just I mean which it's you can't even imagine it but and that's what's so weird in that in the middle of this asteroid crater which is still used by European Space Agency astronauts by the way as part of their geology training because obviously the moon has all these impact craters you have one on the earth which will now have a mix of rocks that will be from the asteroid itself and obviously from the earth you need to be able to distinguish the different types of rocks see which are the really interesting ones so this is why it was chosen by Apollo 14 and Apollo 17 as part of their training and there were two astronauts from each mission yeah so pretty much where we're standing is we're overlooking a small quarry here which is partially flooded with a very large yellow sign in German saying verboten basically don't go anywhere near it and there's another much larger quarry behind So they're quarrying, you can see that the rock is limestone, but within that is this darker rock, which was this rock sort of formed by the huge pressures and the huge energy of that asteroid colliding.

42:42Suevite, I think it is. S-U-E-V-I-T-E. Suevite. I'm pretty sure it's Suevite. It's a kind of dark rock and much of the church, in fact, in Nordlingen, beautiful little town with, in fact, the Bavarian Railway Museum as well. There was also the hotel. The last time I was here, I stayed in this lovely little hotel by the church, which is made from fragments of the asteroid in it. It was called the Hotel Sone. Sadly, that is still there, but it closed last year. So it's empty. But that's where Gene Cernan and the Apollo astronauts stayed. So I actually did stay in that. And we were going to stay in that as well.

43:21and I wondered why no one would answer my emails or answer the phone. Yeah, so the Apollo astronauts that actually came here, so two Apollo 14 astronauts, so the commander Alan Shepard and then Ed Mitchell, who was the other moonwalker on that mission, and then their backup crew. So although he became the commander of Apollo 17, he was the backup crew for Apollo 14. That's Gene Cernan and then also Joe Engel, who never, of course, flew on the Apollo missions. They spent a week at the Nordlingen Rees crater here in August 1970 and obviously applied that knowledge then to the moon. So good location.

44:00I mean, a really great place to go at the sort of edge of Bavaria. And I want to share what Alan Shepard said about this place. I would have preferred to come to old Germany as a tourist. But this visit is for work and the field training here will surely be interesting. thing here we will learn what kind of rocks we'll have to bring back from the moon and in fact they did and when they came back they they actually said that it was hugely good practice and they recognized some of the rock on the moon that they recognized from this crater and brought back so it yeah excellent training so if you're ever in europe and you're in germany bavaria nordlingen definitely come you know it's it's a fabulous place but it's got this amazing um space connection to the Apollo mission still used by ESA astronauts and the town itself is absolutely stunning and as Richard said we also did some nerdy train train stuff.

45:01Yeah the Bavarian train museum is also really good it's just really interesting. And the beer is good. And the beer is of course excellent um you've got another Apollo 14 connection. Oh yes yes um I mentioned And, you know, the book deadline, I've been writing this book on autism and empathy for what feels like a decade now. But no, it's just making that deadline was hard work, really hard work. But one of the one of the chapters is on the genetics side of autism and and empathy. And I got in touch with a lovely guy called Joe Henry because of his son, because there's a connection with the genetic side of the son.

45:39and I interviewed him about it and we've sort of been keeping in touch and he's really really friendly really nice um lives in Oregon and um he'd done a bit of research and said I you like space would you like I've got an Apollo uh autograph would you like it and and it turned out it was Stuart Ruses from Apollo 14 yeah and there's a connection there because he was the guy who did the moon trees and we have and we did a few years ago there was a moon tree from one of the seeds that had gone into space it turned out not very far from where we lived and I have one of we have one of the leaves from the moon tree so it's like oh my goodness but I actually did turn him down because I said look you want to keep that that's that's you know that's really important keep keep that and so I refused and he broke me down he said no no he definitely wanted me to have it and bless him he sent sent it to me so we have Stuart Roos' autograph so thank you I think thank you we should mount that if we cut it out and mount it in a frame with one of the leaves yeah preserve one of the leaves yeah that would be so cool that would be cool yeah so it's yeah so it's really funny all these little connections with uh yeah with space and life and what have you yeah it's amazing it's almost like there's a connection a universal spider web no it's because loads of people like space yeah that's true yeah next a trip to the royal society in london and a remarkable archive discovery involving the uk's first satellite originally known as uk one aerial one was launched by the united states in april 1962 It was designed to investigate the Earth's ionosphere, but just a few months after launch, the satellite was damaged by a controversial high-altitude US nuclear test.

47:33Well, now archivists at the Royal Society in London have rediscovered two colour films made about the mission and its successor, Ariel 2, and Space Boffins have been given an exclusive first look. Now, as you'll hear in my conversation recorded in the Royal Society Library and mixed with some sound from the films, they are a fascinating insight into early 60s spaceflight.

48:00My name is Keith Moore. I'm the Royal Society's librarian. in? I've got to start with the extraordinary films and particularly the second film which starts off about Ariel 1 and then goes into Ariel 2 but you wouldn't know it was about anything like that because it actually starts with a man clearly in the home county somewhere well off getting into a nice car driving for well on the film a good minute and a half into central London going into Broadcasting House and then reading the news. It's the most extraordinary start to any film I think I've ever seen. It's almost avant-garde. It's fantastic and I really want to know what he had for breakfast because that's the only bit they missed out.

48:44This is the BBC Home Service. Here is the news. Three hours ago, the first Anglo-American satellite, the UK1, was launched from Cape Canaveral. it has gone into orbit and a few minutes ago completed its first circuit of the earth an american rocket fired it and it's carrying british instruments it's also weird he was carrying an umbrella and it was clearly a really sunny day yeah well we're british i mean i think the the contrast there i think was with how the british broadcasting was done at the time and then it moves to america which is far more glossy and new and go get it april 26 1962 the time 1pm.

49:26The event, man's first international orbital exploration of space. The countdown. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0.

49:47The satellite itself and this cooperation, what do we know about how that came about? Well, the Americans offered space on their Thor Delta rockets for science packages. A few countries proposed schemes. The Brits were first. And UK1, or Ariel 1 as we know it, was the first in that set of experiments to go up. And now you've got also here, what's this? You've got a magazine here from the time. What's this? Well, this is the New Scientist. Well, this is the old New Scientist. and this is an article on the British space research programme. So it basically gives you chapter and verse and aerial one and what the mission was all about.

50:33And you can see it's British space research and the author there is credited to the Royal Society. This is Burlington House on Piccadilly and inside its quiet courtyard is the home of the oldest scientific organisation in the world. Here is Britain's Royal Society. So this was what, a part Royal Society project? It was, yes. The leading light of this, who appears in the film actually, is Sir Harry Massey. Sir Harry Massey was the big noise in British space research at the time. He's associated with University College London. He's part of most of the major British rocket projects of the period.

51:16And he's behind the building of the aerial satellites. He's one of the British speakers in the film that looks less self-conscious than the others, because some of them are terribly stiff and British. Well, Alistair Cook's on there, who's a great journalist, of course. He's the professional of the lot. But Sir Harry Massey is interesting because he's presenting at the Royal Society. So again, you get this kind of the portraits and the sculpture busts of the organisation presented as something old and venerable. Massey is a pretty good presenter. Very slow, though. You know, he's clearly explaining science to idiots like you and me.

52:00Our cooperation in the field of space research began in 1959, when the United States delegate to the meeting of the International Committee on Space Research made the very generous offer that the United States would be prepared to launch satellites containing instruments designed and developed by scientists in other countries. This offer we took up without delay. Yeah, it is very much science by the numbers, isn't it? The graphics of the time, I like the sort of magnetic graphics of sticking bits up of the interior of the spacecraft. Let's go into some detail, and it is an amazing-looking spacecraft.

52:45I think they refer to that in one of the films, because how odd it is with these... It looks like a sci-fi spacecraft. It's a cylinder, but with lots of bits sort of sticking out all over the place. Yeah, I mean, we tend to think of space at that period as very glossy, very streamlined, very shiny. And this was referred to in the film as a space book. It looks like something from a kind of a Buck Rogers 1930s space epic, you know. But Massey did present it to the Royal Society and at one of the Royal Society of Soirees. And it's interesting that we're having Soirees at the Summer Science exhibition at the moment, so it's quite nice to get it out right now.

53:26But yes, he presented the model here at one of these exhibitions. This is a model of one of the more recent satellites to be launched, Ariel One, built jointly by the Americans and British in history's first cooperative space venture. Mission of the Ariel One? To discover more about the ionosphere. that vast canopy of ions and free electrons that starts about 50 miles above the earth's surface and extends out for at least 2 000 miles now you've also got some other articles here again in the royal society archive which i have to say you you do this really well you do actually keep stuff you do look after things yeah what's this article here the creaking gate in the hut in the field behind the village church um um so this is the creaking noise comes from ariel so it's a record of the noise made by the space satellite uh and one of my favorites is a cartoon this is harold mcmillan uh as ariel one orbiting kennedy oh i couldn't work that out i could not work that course so you look at this so it's a it's a caricature i could recognize kennedy the caricature of kennedy with the big the big teeth looking very american sort of large and then yeah absolutely the Prime Minister at the time, Harold Macmillan, looking kind of...

54:39I mean, he always looked fusty and old. He looks particularly fusty and old, but with the bits of Ariel sticking out, out of him whizzing around Kennedy. I'm happy to say there has been a successful launch this afternoon from Cape Canaveral of the first British satellite to be known as Ariel. That's good. And, of course, eventually he had to send a stiff letter to the Americans because the atomic bomb testing that they were doing at the time, took out Ariel One and quite a few other satellites. Yeah, I wanted to talk about that, actually, because you see in the film all about how advanced scientifically this satellite is.

55:18It had a tape recorder, which is pretty advanced for the time. It was sending back data. And then, yeah, it didn't last long in orbit. So just tell me the story of Ariel One. So from success to kind of geopolitical embarrassment. Well, yeah, because obviously this is an Anglo-British project, so it's bigged up as that, as a triumph of science diplomacy. And then, of course, yes, the Americans tested, I think they called it Starfish Prime, very weird name for a bomb, and it took out the satellite, which, of course, was quite scandalous. The Brits, I think, sent a letter of complaint to the Americans.

56:00It took out Telstar as well, I believe. The legend is that Marbell sent a bill to the American government for their satellite, which is a bit of a different reaction to the Brits. But yeah, it ended up being quite a bit of a debacle. And this nuclear explosion, we should say, so we were doing atmospheric nuclear explosions at that time. This was in the high atmosphere. So, I mean, it was really ill thought through. Well, that's right. And there are lots of articles at the time. interestingly, a new scientist and elsewhere about exactly this, what the problems would be if the Americans did test something in space.

56:36And therefore, it was a known quantity, but they went ahead and did it anyway. And yes, it took out, we think it eroded the solar panels on Ariel-1 and possibly affected the electronics and various other things about the satellite. Now, certainly the United States, United Kingdom's Ariel performed all its functions gracefully and efficiently. I love this headline. This could have been written today. This is the Daily Mirror, and it always shows how headline writers in the UK are so far ahead of their US counterparts. And the headline is, Britnik burbles on. So this is post this explosion. Yeah, so this is Sputnik, of course, and our first satellite is obviously going to be Britnik.

57:22So it's burbling around in orbit. Delhi Mirrors is a bit poo-pooey about the kind of the whole business of sending satellites in place. But it's interesting to see the various reactions of different parts of the press too, which should be a mighty event. Some of them are quite satirical, some of them quite respectful. And what, I mean, what was the reaction when you said that the government sent a stiff letter to the Americans after this nuclear testing? I mean, do we have any evidence of upset scientists or anything more made of that? Or was it kind of hushed up and we'll get on with Ariel 2?

58:01Well, as we know from the film, the British are very stiff about this kind of thing. So, yeah, Ariel 2 came next. So presumably all was papered over and the next satellite went up. Another step forward in the United States international program of space exploration. Let's talk about these films then, because the quality of the digitisation is spot on. They don't look like they're some dusty archive. Where were they found? We have lots of cans of film in the Royal Society's archives. And inevitably, when you get cans of film, nobody bothered to put on the outside of the can what was on the inside.

58:42So we're digitising them partly to find out what's there and quite what the significance of these things is. And we were really delighted with this one because we were already doing a Google Arts and Culture resource on cooperation between America and Britain for the great American anniversary, of course. and we found this quite late in the game but we instantly had to do it use it because it is such a nice example of a 20th century American British project now of course once we saw the thing we saw really how good it was and how funny as well it's hilarious it's good period stuff today we know that space is a violent vicious place black and frigid beyond imagining devoid of all that can sustain life.

59:35A killer, an enormous, endless, boundless nothingness that seems to say to man, you shall not pass. Why we had it at the time, we don't know. I mean, I think the one with Harry Massey in was presumably just because it had a fellow of the Royal Society in, so they kept it for that reason. And the film gets chopped off after he's presented his piece, so you kind of think that the Royal Society thought Harry Massey very important, And that stuff about the satellite later on, not so important. That's what we really wanted. And when you first saw it then, what were your reactions to it? Kind of mouth open, really.

1:00:14Because I just was firstly amazed at the quality of the film, because it is colour stock. It's really quite, quite good. The production values at the time, excellent. the performances of some of the journalists and others not quite so good i mean it's extraordinary extraordinarily stiff aren't they that they really are and you can understand that of the scientists but you know they're kind of trying to explain in a glossy uh film like this using a blackboard and chalk uh it's kind of it's a bit old school really but i guess that's what the scientists are used to doing remarkably beautiful handwriting though the ionosphere is composed of electrons and positive ions it does feel almost when you watch it older than it's this time you know this is 1960s we're talking about space and the space race but the way they've made the film it feels like it could have been made in the 1930s or 40s well i guess many of the scientists who involved like massey did a lot of the work in the Second World War, you know.

1:01:22So, I mean, they've got that mentality still. And yet here is quite a modern feeling medium for them to use. And so that continues. You had Ariel 1 and then you had Ariel 2. This cooperation between the US and the UK. Well, that's right. And eventually, of course, the Brits managed to launch one satellite on their own. I think it was called Prospero. So there's kind of a Shakespearean theme carrying on there. But of course, the British space program rapidly deteriorated, too expensive. Only Americans and the Russians could get to do that kind of thing. So it fell by the wayside. But of course, these days, Britain is quite well known for the development of satellite technology.

1:02:12So things have gone full circle. As new tapes are completed, they are sent to Great Britain for analysis by scientists of the Royal Society. I like to think the films we make are a little bit quicker and pacier than the films of the 1960s. Well, let's hope so, and we'll find out when you edit this. Yeah, that's right. What's going to happen to this film? Is this going to be available for everyone to see? Yeah, well, it's going to be launched on Saturday on Google Arts and Culture, so anybody can have a look at it with some other Ross-Sitey material from the American side of the Fellowship. So, yeah, have a watch of it, and we'd be interested to know, A, what your reactions are, B, if anybody's got the cut bit of that film.

1:02:55Yeah, because is it cut then, or is it just a real missile? I think it's a cut, but it's interesting that NASA didn't have the film. So, you know, we'll give them a copy. But if anybody out there has got the whole thing, we'd like to know. Have you got any other exciting films? Do you know? I mean, have you got some more unopened cans of film somewhere that you think, well, this could be, you know, this could be a goldmine here? Well, yeah, there are lots of other films. And it's all kinds of things that were presumably shown at the Royal Society in lectures or exhibitions over time. So we're gradually working our way through them.

1:03:32and some of them do look quite intriguing from what's left on the outside of the can, but you'll have to watch the space to see what we find. So on that cliffhanger? On that cliffhanger. Helping man acquire the knowledge he must have to master the dark beyond.

1:03:58Keith Moore, the head of the Royal Society Library, with some extracts from those rediscovered films. And as Keith said, you can find those films on the Royal Society's YouTube channel. They are brilliant. The first one, incidentally, is called The Dark Beyond. You're humming this up, aren't you? The Dark Beyond. and as you can probably hear we have moved to a very different location than outdoors next to a quarry. That's right now I mentioned earlier that I'd been to the Nordlingen Rees Crater Museum in 2019 and that's where we are now with its director Dr Christian Bergerman. Explain where we are right this moment because Richard and I have just looked around the museum which is really lovely but we've come to a rather special place behind the scenes thank you for the praise for the museum and welcome and it's um yeah right now we are in the in the core collection room of the museum where we have the house the main event basically is the the drill core from 1973 when they were looking at how a impact crater looks like in the underground because it was actually the second crater that was ever identified as an impact crater only the second Yes, after the Berenger crater, actually, which is rather obvious as an impact crater.

1:05:18Here they drilled then down 1.2 kilometres to get an idea of what the underground looks like. And we still have very often researchers coming asking to access the course. Just recently we had, for example, a group from China here. We just got a request from a group from Canada. So a lot of people are still interested in this. And we ought to explain what they look like because it's sort of a miniature version of the behind the scenes of Raiders of the Lost Ark when you have all those crates. But instead of big crates, you've got these tiny little wooden shoeboxes. Actually, they're not that tiny.

1:05:52They're very long shoeboxes. Yeah, that's huge. It's two metres long. And you can see the circular core of rock that you've pulled out there. So inside all these hundreds of miniature, which are slim but quite long crates with these rock cores in. These are all from the crater. Exactly. And why did you need to get so many? Well, I mean, it's the entire way down, as I said, to 1.2 kilometres. So you have to go through... So this is 1.2 kilometres worth of core, all in individual boxes. All of this in one room. And you have to go through the sediments that were deposited during the Ice Age, after the formation of the crater when there was a huge lake here inside for about two million years and then through the the sewer vides so the impact break shares that formed and all the way down to the basement to the crystalline basement to kind of see how it how it was affected there we're in this beautiful medieval walled town or city at the city at the time and then surrounding that and you can only really get a sense of it when you climb up the church tower you can see that this sort of flat landscape and then it's very clearly a kind of rim all the way around but no one realized this is what i can't get my head around no one realized that something hit the earth to to cause this until relatively recently and certainly in the 20th century yes actually i mean people found it always fascinating so like centuries ago people noticed that it was strange that it was a weird place like you have these hills all around and then suddenly you have this flat area which is almost perfectly circular so people were were wondering what it was and for a long time people were saying that probably it was a volcano or something like this and also the rocks look very similar if you look at the impact rocks they look quite similar to volcanic rocks so that was the general opinion here and from what i remember someone actually suggested at the beginning of the 20th century that it might have been an impact crater, but was kind of laughed out of the room, if you will.

1:08:03And then only after the Second World War, people actually came from outside and had a look again and knew how the crater that was first identified, the Berenczak crater in the US, how it looked like, how the minerals looked like. And then they checked here and they found the same kind of minerals. And so they could prove that it was actually an impact crater then. That's also why it's still also for universities, for the teaching activities. It's still in all the textbooks because it was just basically the only, the first complex crater that was found. It's sort of a geologist's dream really, isn't it?

1:08:43Basically, yes. Yes. Yeah, no, it actually is. We get all the time field trips from universities all over Europe coming here and then also as I said also researchers from from all over the world coming here. And when the asteroid actually impacted so that's 15 million years ago what was this region like what was Nordlingen like then? Well Nordlingen didn't exist let's just say the region yeah. Well it was a subtropical landscape at the time with the elephants and the predecessors of lions and small antelopes running around, crocodiles and everything. And then the impact happens. And as you can imagine, basically, middle of Europe ceased to exist almost like from life perspective.

1:09:30And there's actually some colleagues found now evidence that there was a time of very strong erosion also that they found. They cannot prove that it was the impact, but it's the only event that fits. And you can find material from the impact down to southern England, central Italy, and you can find the impact glass. This is called the, not coming to me, well, anyway, the impact glass all the way to the Czech Republic, where it basically kind of went out and then fell down as pieces of glass there in the Moldavite. The stuff is called Moldavite. And they still use it for pieces of jewelry. I think I've got something that's made of Maldivite.

1:10:14Exactly. It's a very nice green colour. Yes, that's why I got it. It's still collected there and it comes probably from this impact. Now, we talked about the cores here. You've also got quite a sophisticated amount of equipment here in terms of still studying the area. So your research lab as well as a museum. And that's what brought the astronauts here, really, the geology, the fact that they can see here on Earth what they were expecting to see on the moon. Exactly, yes. I mean, the museum did not exist in the time it only opened in 1990. But, yeah, that was the idea back then, because, as I said, I mean, there were only two craters really proven at the time, and this one was really accessible.

1:10:57And so they came to have a look at the rocks that would await them on the moon, so just to give them an idea of what they would see. And that's also why the AESA is still coming nowadays also. So astronauts still coming here? Yes, every couple of years, more or less, for the astronaut training. Before we came here, you know, we popped via sort of part of your office and we saw that lovely little NASA box, which had the old, the worm logo on it. And what was inside that? Inside that was actually a piece of the moon from Apollo 16, which the mayor at the time flew to the US, got the box with the moon rock inside as a permanent loan from NASA, then basically flew back hugging the box and then they put it here in the still where it is now.

1:11:43So that's amazing. It's almost the full circle of the story that you've got moon rock, not from an asteroid, not from a meteorite, but moon rock collected by a human, an Apollo astronaut on the moon. Exactly, yes. It's a very nice story for that, yes. Dr. Christian Bergman, thank you very much indeed for showing us around. And I must say, this is my second visit now to the museum. And it's just as wonderful, but even better second time around. So thank you. Thank you very much. I'm very happy that you came here. Do send us your reactions to anything you've heard in the podcast. Let us know as well if you have any other hidden UK space archive in your attic or anything.

1:12:28If it's a film, we can probably show it because we have a 16mm projector. and that's it for the 15th anniversary edition of space boffins 15 years that's not too bad is it thanks for listening and of the same

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