Ballpark Food Debate, Masters Recap & Troy Aikman on NFL QB Play, Drafting Mendoza & More | Ep 187

19:29Jason Kelce:They really embrace it. I think it was awesome to be there and to have a lot of fun with those guys. The one thing about this tournament is that it's more than just a golf event. You don't necessarily have to be in the golf. You're going to see some amazing shots of the best players in the world. But it's an event that anybody can enjoy because of how beautiful the landscape is, because of everything that goes into what that course is. I mean, you have different houses and places you can go while you're there. And you just get a full experience like none other. And it's why it's one of the best events in sports.

20:06Jason Kelce:The cool part about being there is that you're on these grounds that have been there and this tournament has been being played since 1934. The course was carved out and just feels like it was made to be a golf course. You don't have your phones. There's no digital scoreboard. Everything's manually being done. That's the hardest part, yeah. There are no phones in understanding where the match is. Yeah. Because you don't know what a guy's got going on three holes over and whether they're making a push or they're throwing it all the way. There's a level of mystery to it. Throwing it all the way, yeah.

20:38Jason Kelce:You're there and you're trying to figure out where's the scoreboard. Oh, he just, Freddie just got a quadruple, a double, what was it, a quadruple bogey, a four? Like, what the heck happened? And so it's, there's this excitement in the fact that you don't really know what's happening when you're there. The way the grounds are handled, the way the faculty, the workers, everything's done there. It's just done at an insane level. I got to give a cap to the workers and everybody that's really putting this thing on and making this thing go. They make it one of the cleanest places I've ever been, especially on a golf course, man.

21:12Jason Kelce:They do such a great job. Everybody says it's kind of like the Disney World of golf. I can see that. All the dirty work kind of happens in a way that you don't ever see. So everything looks pristine. The way they treat everybody, the way everybody treats you, whether it's the patrons, the workers, everybody's just there to have fun. It's an awesome time. They've somehow kept these prices down. I mean, the pimento cheese sandwich was$1.50. I think a bottle of water is$2. They're not giving that thing out for free? If you have Berkman's passes, it's for free after you pay for however many thousands of dollars for the ticket.

21:44Jason Kelce:I don't know how that works. But no, they could jack those prices up. Yeah. You go into an NFL stadium, you're paying, what, like$8 for a beer? Yeah, but those are premium beers. You're an asshole. What was your favorite shot? I don't know. I'm trying to think of... My favorite hole is 13. I love 13. Par five. The par five, bend around the corner. Then you got to play over. Dog leg left over. Yep. Okay, Ray's Creek. You know the Creeks? I think it's Ray's Creek. And you got to make a decision on whether you want to go for it. You got a long second shot, approach shot, are you going to lay up and pitch in?

22:31If you ever got to play it, what would you do?

22:33Jason Kelce:What would I do? I'm going for it. You're going for it? I'm not trying to set a score. I'm trying to have a story. I'm trying to turn the corner and everything. There we go. Yeah, that hole's awesome. I just like the par fives, honestly. Par fives and par threes are the most fun ones to tee up because you're going to see somebody throw a dart at one of the par threes, like 16 or two coming down the hill. That's a fun one, yeah. Well, you see scoring. You're going to see somebody go for an eagle. You're going to see birdies. There's a lot of action, I feel like, on the par fives and threes. So those are the ones I like to post up at.

23:08You think Rory's running away with this thing or what?

23:09Jason Kelce:I mean, he's winning by six strokes right now. Yep. Sounds about right. For those of you that don't know, it is Saturday morning. The cut has just been made, and Rory is winning by six strokes. He is going to be potentially the first person to repeat as Masters champion since Tiger Woods did it in 2001 or 2002. It was either 2000-2001 or 2001-2002. Either way, he would be the fourth person ever to be back-to-back Masters champions. I think that would be awesome. Another guy that's up there right now, Justin Rose. I got to see him win the U.S. Open in Philly in 2014. Awesome dude. I watched him and Spieth and Koepka on a par three and then tee-off.

23:50And, man, it's just crazy when you see these pros tee-off with the driver, man. Yeah. I mean, the sound, not only the sound of the club hitting the ball, but the swing. Yeah. The placement. And how tight it is. The velocity it comes off, it's crazy.

24:06Jason Kelce:How tight some of these shots they have to hit, even on one. One is just a par four up the hill, but that bunker on the right, you got like a 15-yard landing strip, really, that you're trying to hit. Yeah. If you don't get it in there, you can be in the trees, on the straw, on the left side, and then you can't reach the green. It's watching these guys navigate how precise they are with all the shots. It's just a blast to see in person when you can see the ball. That thing skyrockets off that face. So you got to have some UV protection to try and see it. But yeah, what was your favorite thing you ate?

24:46Jason Kelce:Favorite thing I ate? I know you're a big egg salad guy. Yeah, because who doesn't love mayonnaise? Mixed with eggs. Throwing on some white bread. I actually used to love egg salad. Mom used to make it. I don't know what it was. Once I found out that she was just like... Yeah, don't do the sound effect. I walked in the kitchen at the wrong time. Please don't do the sound effect. But mom, you made the best egg salad sandwich. I'm going to be bougie and stay. There's a fried chicken in the Berkman's Place that is to die for. I didn't get the fried chicken. I got the pizza in Berkman's. How was that?

25:22Jason Kelce:So for those of you that don't know, Berkman's Place is another... tier. Are we allowed to talk about Bergman's Place? I don't know. Are we even allowed to be sitting here doing this? Probably not. We're going to get banned for life, I'm sure. I hope not because it's an incredible experience. You can actually watch the tournament better. I mean, listen, I like watching on Sunday, personally. All right. Pimento cheese and egg salad combination was my favorite. Combo? Dude, it's called the Pomego. I found that out this week. that is it's a lot i don't think texture wise you would i am so out on this it's it's pretty darn good uh there was also another combo people were saying the pimento and the barbecue to me that was too many flavors happening it was overkill pimento and the chicken classic chicken grilled chicken sandwich yeah that was good but the Pomego is my favorite combo of it.

26:19Jason Kelce:The ice cream peach sandwich. You didn't get one of them? I'm glad you tried all this because I didn't. I was here longer. I was trying to watch some golf. They were also having me do it as a part of the broadcast, so I didn't really have a choice. It was all delicious. That's it. That's all I got around to. Yeah, it was. You see Nance? You see Daly? I didn't see either of them. Me neither. I'm hoping I can maybe find Nance today. We called into Top Dog. Who knows if. old John Daly still over there. He is. He's there right now. Actually, we called top dog yesterday when we left the course to see if he was still there.

26:53Jason Kelce:And he had just left. Uh, but he is there this morning and he'll be there this morning, uh, Sunday as well, I believe. Interesting. So yeah, for those of you that have never been, it's awesome. It's everything you've heard about. Uh, there's some of the best golfers in the world. Uh, the hospitality, the way it's run is second to none the tradition to it the the the history that's happened there all of these gnomes there's gnomes all over the place everybody's getting to know can i get my hands on these yeah there's all there's the the merch bag and that's where they get you it's a dollar fifty sandwich but you're going to go into that merch store and spend some cash for sure uh but you love it i don't know the way it was for you but like the moment people find out you're coming you know i got my barber hitting me up me oh can i get a hat can you get me this so it's uh it's an experience uh like none other a tradition like no other i don't know if we want to keep stealing jim's lines but i mean jim we're stealing your lines we love you that's how good your lines are that's right but we'll give you the nod imitation is our sources imitation is the greatest form of flattery all right that's it from us down here at augusta georgia a little out of the house.

28:08Jason Kelce:We'll see how it, the rest of it tees up this weekend. Yeah. How it shapes up. That's all I got. Yeah. That's out of the house. See you guys. How about that? That's our segment. We don't know what that looks like yet, but hopefully it looks like we're having a great fucking time. Once again, that master's edition of Out of the House is brought to you by AT &T. Let's get to our conversation with the legendary Hall of Famer Troy Aikman. This conversation is brought to you by Amazon, one of our favorites. Our guest today is 6 '4 quarterback from UCLA. He was the number one pick in the 1989 draft.

28:44Jason Kelce:He's a six-time Pro Bowler, three-time Super Bowl champion, 1993 Super Bowl MVP, and a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He's also the 1983 Oklahoma High School State Typing Champion. I did not know that. He's been in the broadcast booth for 25 years. He's also my co-worker on Monday Night Football. Please go! Welcome to the show, Mr. Troy Aikman! Let's go! There we go. There we go. Yeah, what is the best intro ever? I'm trying. I'm trying. That's easy. It's easy when you got that many accolades, Troy. Troy, I can't thank you enough for taking the time and hanging with us, man. You've been an icon in the Kelsey household for such a long time.

29:28I remember I had the Dallas Cowboys action figures. It was all the stars. It was you, Irvin, Emmitt, Dion. I remember having him as a kid, man. I've been such a big fan of you. Grew up a quarterback, wishing I could one day be an Aikman, but, you know, made my way into the quarterback's best friend world anyways. But I appreciate the time, dog. And I got to hit you with the first question, man. What was your first impression of Jason on air? Oh, well, it was fantastic. I mean, I remember we did a production call with Jason back when he was still playing with the Eagles. and someone asked, I don't think it was me, maybe it was Joe, maybe it was Aaron, asked him if Jason had an interest in getting into television when he was done.

30:11And he indicated that he might, that he had given it some thought, was going to be doing some stuff. He talked about his grandfather. He got emotional talking about his grandfather. And it was one of those calls where we hung up and we said, wow, we just saw a side of Jason that we had never seen before. You know, we just saw this great competitor playing center and dominating, you know, being an all pro player and all that. But then we saw this human side to him. Then we thought, wow, you know, if that can translate, the guy has a real future, you know, if he wants to go that route. And he did.

30:45And by that time, I was I was at ESPN and just thrilled. I mean, it was the Kelsey sweepstakes. It's a little bit like what you're going to be going through here, Travis. Listen, and so to get Jason, you know, to be a teammate at ESPN has been awesome. I mean, I'm not just saying this. I said this to others. I think Jason's an absolute superstar in this profession. You know, I mean, he can take this and go as far with it as he did his playing career. You know, we do that Monday night countdown hit that I come down and go on the set with him. The highest compliment that I can pay any former player or current player is by saying, you know, I would have loved to have been a teammate of yours.

31:31And Jason's one of those guys. And Travis, I can say the same thing about you. I've covered enough of your games. But now I am a teammate of Jason's, and he makes us better. So it's awesome. And now if we get his brother, we get a brother over to the worldwide leader. We got something. I don't know, man. ESPN is a very polished organization. I don't know if I, yeah, I'm just kidding, man. I'd have a fucking glass, dude. It's not that polished. It's not that polished. Considering Jason's first time on air, he's screaming tits. Yeah, that's right. And he still has a job. No. So do you think Jason could fit in on the 90s Cowboys?

32:10Oh, heck yeah. Yeah. absolutely absolutely yeah he'd probably be hanging with me you know i mean oh yeah some of those guys they uh you know they they they've had more extracurricular activities uh than what i had i don't i don't claim to know what jason was doing in his uh personal time but i have a feeling he and i probably would have been hanging out together hell yeah that would have been a blast that's some good shit right there man i had to ask you what your opinion was or at least the first thought of Jason being a, being a teammate. So that's awesome, man.

32:42Jason Kelce:I got to mention this too, while we're still on like first impressions, going up in the booth with you and Joe for the first time, I didn't know what I was doing and just watching you guys play off of it. And like the, the way you let me in there and just a great teammate, you were there to try and guide me through that. I really appreciate that. And, and then you come down to the regular table while we're talking me, you swag and the pre-show and you kill it there, man. I mean, you've been doing this is there anything you can't do in broadcast how long you've been doing 25 years yeah 25 years that is amazing man yeah it's crazy you know it was uh well first of all uh when i when i got into this and you know one i was in a three-man booth so i i first worked with daryl johnson my former teammate uh yes he had retired a year before me and and then dick stockton So the three of us, and then after one year, Madden left, and he went to Monday Night Football.

33:37And so then they were looking for a new number one booth, and that's when I got paired with Joe Buck and Chris Collinsworth, and I was in another three-man booth with those guys for three more years. So my first four years, I was in a three-man booth. And I knew pretty early on that I didn't like the three-man booth, but I learned a lot by going that route. And the other thing is, too, there's there's there was no social media. So, you know, I said a lot of dumb things. But when you say something, I hope and you didn't have to hear about all the all the people who heard you say it, you know, and and now there's not much grace period.

34:19There's not much grace period in life, period, but especially in broadcasting. So you don't really get a chance to kind of learn your way. You know, there's a, everyone has a quick opinion on guys as soon as they come into it. But like working with Collinsworth was, was good for me because he had been in television for a number of years prior to that. And Chris is one of those guys. There's a handful of these type of guys. There's not a lot of them. He could host a radio show. You know, he could, he could host a studio show. He can be the analyst. He could do, you know, he can do games. He can do all of it.

34:52He could do play by play. I think there was one time when they talked to him about maybe doing play-by-play with Madden, and I could not. I wouldn't even attempt it. You know, I think what Joe Buck does and what play-by-play guys do is such a unique skill. You know, I've gotten more comfortable in front of the camera over the years, which is only natural, but I'm not as talented as a lot of other people that could really kind of do any type of medium they wanted to.

35:18Jason Kelce:I don't know, man. I think you kill it every time. Every time we talk, me, Swag, Ryan, SVP, every time you're on the desk, it is amazing to us how quickly you snap into it. What you say just like pierces through all the nonsense. That's one thing that I think you do such a good job, not just on the desk, but also calling games where you talk about the quarterback position in particular, but really just football in general. There's a realness that doesn't come off like you're attacking anybody. But it's just like a face value what you're seeing that you articulate so well in every medium I hear you in.

35:50Jason, that's high praise. It means a lot to me. I'll be honest. I mean, what I'm most grateful for you saying is that it doesn't feel like I'm attacking anybody. Because there's times when somebody writes something that I said. Yeah. And then it comes off as though I was being critical of the player. And I get offended by that because the one thing that I've always tried to do, I've tried to be honest. I mean, everyone tries to do that. I think you owe it to the audience. I think you owe it to your employer, to be honest. But at the same time, I have so much respect for the players and the coaches that participate in this game.

36:26I mean, the three of us, we know how hard the game is to play. And I especially know how hard the quarterback position is to play. Doesn't mean every throw is perfect. Doesn't mean every time the quarterback plays, he plays well. And I will point that out. But I hope I do it in a respectful way and not in a way that tries to embarrass or be disrespectful to the people that are out there on the field doing it.

36:51Jason Kelce:For sure. And it doesn't come across that way to me, especially when you're watching it live. Anybody can write an article with like a soundbite and frame it in whatever way they want. I was going to say, I think the players understand that the most. You know, the guys that are seeing exactly what you're seeing and how you're describing it really appreciate your ability to put it into words. and to give that to the viewers. And I think, you know, we all are our biggest, worst critics if we're the best. You know, you just have to have that mentality. So if somebody's saying that I'm not doing something that I need to be doing, like I'm the first one to point that out.

37:28So I think the players definitely see that first. And it's typically the viewers that have this love and desire that, you know, their quarterback or their players are the best and can never do anything wrong that have those kind of views on that. Especially Dallas because they, you know, I'm sure, Jason, if, you know, you do games or if you were to say anything on a pregame show about the Eagles, it immediately gets, like, if I say when I'm calling a Cowboys game and I don't call as many now on Monday Night Football because we only get two games a year, whereas at Fox, you know, I had many more.

38:00But if a call, if I didn't agree with a penalty that benefited the Cowboys, I mean, the Cowboys fans, they'd lose their lives. Traitor!

38:08Jason Kelce:Traitor! the one thing i do uh remember from when i was playing i would be watching a sunday night game or a monday night game and a quarterback would make a throw and the the analyst would say no one that he's the only guy in football that can make that throw or he's he's the best guy there is at that position and then the next week another quarterback would do something that say he's the best that and i and i'm like there's 31 other quarterbacks that can make that exact same throw You know, I mean, and so I never have been and maybe at times this this is not good, but I've never been prone to hyperbole.

38:47Like I just if I do say something that's really strong, I mean, it's because I honestly believe that that's the only player that could have done whatever that was. I just think it's disrespectful to all of the other great players in the league if you're only trying to sell that moment for television and not really being totally honest about the league overall.

39:12Jason Kelce:Absolutely. And it comes across for sure. We're not going to name other announcers, but other guys get labeled almost as super fans of specific players because they're always saying certain things. And I just feel like everything you say about a guy is very at face value. And I've always loved hearing that perspective. Yeah, thank you. What do you think about the current state of quarterback play in the NFL? Where are you at just holistically with where we're at? Well, I like it. I know going back towards the end of my career, when we played, I mean, I'm sure you guys feel the same. You feel like you played in the golden era of your position.

39:49I mean, I had Elway, Marino, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Steve Young, you know boomers the list goes on and on there were a lot of really great quarterbacks during the era that i was playing and towards the end of my career i was asked hey where are all the great young quarterbacks is like who's who's going to fill those shoes once everyone retires but but what you find is somebody always fills those shoes you know there's always more superstars that are coming along. And I think the league is in great hands. I mean, I really do. You know, we can look no further than Drake May of New England, a second year player and what he's been able to accomplish and a number of other quarterbacks as well.

40:33I mean, obviously, Travis's quarterback and Patrick Mahomes, what he's been able to accomplish. But there's Josh Allen. There's a number of great quarterbacks. Joe Burrow has always been one of my favorites. But I think the game itself, what I've like to see here in the last couple of years, and Jason, you probably would agree, we got so into the spread sets and throwing the football, the rules favored the receivers, you know, it was tougher on the defensive backs. And that really goes back to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady and some of those games because New England just went after the Colts physically.

41:06And so they changed the rules. It became more favorable for the receivers. So we saw this influx in teams wanting to throw the football. And now it seems to kind of be coming back to the middle where teams are running the ball more. And I love that. You know, I mean, my career, I would have loved to have thrown the ball more than I did. But if I was a coach today, I would do it the same way we did the 90s Cowboys. I mean, a power running game, the play action game. And we see that from a lot of, we see that in San Francisco. We see it with the Rams. We've seen it with a lot of other teams. Chicago and they're kind of coming back to that which which I really like which is only going to benefit the quarterbacks so I like where the league is right now I love these young quarterbacks and and all the greatness that we've been able to see from that position I love to hear you talk about the the 90s Cowboys man it's so fucking fun I was just telling you how I was watching the documentary and how excited it felt like that organization everybody in that building got when when you guys got Norv Turner yeah and I think I I'm really just I'm I'm curious what was it about Norv's style and it really being suited for you because you kind of had that different uh world a lot of a lot of like uh rough games and a lot of learning experiences through those first couple years there's so many quarterbacks that have come into this game that were were came in as high draft picks high expectations and then it just never quite happens for them and and my first two years in Dallas, I was on that path.

42:38I was on the path of being a bust. We were the worst offense in football, really both years, my first and second year in the league. Norv Turner then came in my third year with the same players, really pretty much the same offensive linemen, same skill players, Emmitt, Michael, Novacek. And in our first year, we were a top 10 offense and we went to the playoffs for the first time, won 11 games. And then the next two years with Norv, we were We're top five offensively, and we won two Super Bowls. And so even in today's game, there's not a lot of great offensive minds. And if you're one of these quarterbacks who's fortunate enough to play for one, you got a chance to be really successful.

43:19Everyone points to Sam Darnold and what he's gone through and where he's been the last two years, and that's a great example of it. He's been around really great coaching. He's excelled, and we've seen his talents come out, and that's what happened to me. I credit – there's a reason why Norv Turner was my presenter when I went into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Michael and Emmitt, they both credit Norv Turner for turning their careers around. And Jimmy Johnson, he deserves a ton of credit too because he was a tremendous motivator, but he was a great evaluator of talent. And so with those picks that we got from Herschel, the trade of Herschel, we made the most of them.

44:00Or he made the most of them. I had nothing to do with it. give me somebody please give me somebody it's fun to say we it's fun to say we it's kind of fun to say we you know we picked some great players after we made that personal trade but yeah it was a fun time and and just as fun as it was then then jimmy left and it just goes to show you that man there's a lot that goes into to having success you know and And when you have it, don't screw it up. And I think that the egos of Jimmy and Jerry, it happened too early for them in the NFL. They didn't realize really what they had. I think if it had been down the road years later after a longer period of struggling, I think maybe everyone would have kind of taken a back seat and said, well, wait a minute, this is too good.

44:55Let's just enjoy it and let's not mess this up. But so be it.

45:00Jason Kelce:Yeah, the perspective makes all the difference. I remember 2017 when we went on to win the Super Bowl that year. Brent, we had a really good team we could all sense in training camp. You just know when you got the roster, everything's clicking. And Brent Selick stood up in front of the guys and said, guys, I went to the NFC Championship game my rookie year, and we lost. And I was like, oh, we'll be back there next year. It's been 10 years since I've been back to that game. He's like, you don't know how hard it is to get there. And when you got it to take advantage of it, and that was like, it's launched the season.

45:35Jason Kelce:It really had us like take it off. But I mean, the perspective, you don't really know until you have been through it and you've seen the downturn, you realize how special it is to have all those pieces in place. Let me ask you this, because you brought up organizations failing quarterbacks, more than quarterbacks failing organizations. If you're building an organization right now, I know you're helping out with Miami. You're trying to get a young quarterback. What is Troy Aikman's pinnacle of putting this guy in a successful situation? First of all, I'll say this about quarterbacks. I'm sure you guys do it as well.

46:07I worked the draft in 2018, I think. It was whenever Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield and those guys came out, Josh Allen. It's a great quarterback class. Oh, yeah. It's aging like fine wine.

46:20Jason Kelce:It's only getting better. It's only getting better. and I worked that draft so I went to some of these pro days and watched these guys throw yeah now I don't go to physically to the pro days but I'll watch a number of them on NFL Network and quite honestly I watch them and I I think to my what what do you evaluate I mean what do you get watch this isn't even football it's just you know hey let me just show you how strong my arm is and you know you get to see the ball come out you get to see a little bit of accuracy but there's not to me there's nothing that happens at a pro day for a quarterback that translates into whether or not this guy is going to be successful in the nfl and and you know it's it's all the intangibles because if you're if you're looking at being drafted you you've got you've got enough arm strength you know you've got enough athleticism and then so okay well then what's going to determine it well you know what kind of leader are you what how do you know do you want to be the the the best uh there is are you the first one in the building uh what are your work habits are you are you intelligent you know i mean there's just a number of things and and i feel it's easy it's easy when you walk into a production meeting and you're meeting patrick holmes who's already won three super bowls you know yeah i mean you know he's got it whatever that is you know the trick is then finding that person who has it when they're still in college and they're getting ready to go to the NFL.

47:46That really becomes how you evaluate it. But I think as far as what would it look like to give a young quarterback success, it goes back to kind of what we talked about earlier. I would want him under center for the most part. I think the college game has gotten to where these quarterbacks sit back there, hold the ball, they're waiting for guys to get open, and then when they get open, they throw them the football. They don't read coverages. They don't understand coverage is there's no sense of timing it's one of the reasons why i love watching joe burrow play so much because the ball comes out on time he's an old school quarterback i mean he could have played could have played meyer in the 90s and you can feel that yeah so i think getting under center it forces a quarterback to kind of play in rhythm and get the ball out uh so i'd want that i'd want a running game uh all those things that are really beneficial and helpful for a quarterback.

48:38But you're right. There's a number of teams, Dolphins included, that are looking for the next young quarterback that can be their guy for the next 10, 15 years.

48:47Jason Kelce:You brought up college. Where does Troy Aikman stand on NIL? When you talked about diving in on NIL one time and then the fucking kid didn't even write you a note and just bailed on UCLA. Dude, I hadn't been, I was already out on it. I was like, dude, these kids just get the opportunity to jump. They're jumping. And it's like, why even waste your time on it? Yeah, and in fairness to the young player, you know, it's a collectibles thing. He's just collecting the checks. He doesn't know the wall. Yeah, he doesn't even know. He doesn't even know. So it's no reflection of him. But with that said, I know a number of people, my daughters being two of them, that would have loved me to have given them that kind of money, you know?

49:31No doubt. They would have written me a thank you note. You know, I never even met him. I never even met the guy. And then he didn't play. So it just, and I speak for probably most people out there. I know that most alums have heartburn over this whole NIL program. And I don't know how it gets cleaned up, but I do feel that at least in the NFL, you've got a contract that if you take money, you know, you're obligated. That's what it feels like it needs to get to. You have to honor that, man. Yeah, you can't collect a check and then the very next year go back in the portal and then go collect another check.

50:09It just defies what this country is supposed to be about. I always thought players should be paid because you couldn't work in the offseason or you could work in the summers. You couldn't work during the school year back when I was playing, and I didn't come from a wealthy family at all. But there were a lot of teammates of mine who came from less money than even I did, and they were really struggling. And I thought, man, these guys should be getting paid something. And the NCAA, I think, just really dropped the ball. I mean, if they'd gotten out ahead of this and said, okay, here's what we're going to do, and they didn't do it, and now it's the Wild West out there, you know?

50:47It is insane, man. And what also, what you don't hear about anymore is the quality of the education.

50:55Jason Kelce:Yeah, that's awesome. I haven't heard that. I haven't heard education come by about college football since. NIL came about. It's all of a sudden. It's not even discussed. Graduation rates, none of it. I never heard a kid ask, hey, how are my credits going to transfer if I switch schools here? I haven't heard that one yet. Let's play a hypothetical because this is all funny games. If you were a college quarterback and you had one more year of eligibility but you knew you were a top five lottery pick. At a great university. But you know the NFL is waiting on you, and everybody knows you're going to be a top pick.

51:35Would you stay an extra year or get drafted by the worst team in the league?

51:40Jason Kelce:Well, it says Jets, Travis. I'm not going to do the Jets thing. We got an employee that works with us at New Heights. That's a huge Jets fan. And the question was, would you get drafted by the Jets? But I'm just going to say, would you question whether or not to stay the extra year or get drafted by arguably? like a rough situation. That's a hard one because typically, you know, for instance, when I came out in 89, I was first overall pick and the Cowboys, of course, were the worst team and they were, they were the worst team in football. And, and we were the worst team in football, even after my rookie year, we, we regressed.

52:18We went from three wins before I came to Dallas to one win when I joined. And, and so that didn't look like a great situation, but yet it became an amazing place to play and and so i i think you got to be really guarded about saying well historically this franchise hasn't done it and so do i really want to go to that place or should i stay in college another year and maybe you know reshuffle the deck and i get a play chance to go play somewhere else i yeah you know there's a lot of you take peyton manning going to indianapolis uh what he was able to do you know they all look good joe burrow going to cincinnati i mean all these programs start looking better you know when you start getting the right people in place so that's a that's a hard one I I think it's so important for these quarterbacks to play just play play in college play as many games I mean the chances of them then going on and having success in the NFL go up dramatically I mean you look at a guy like Bo Nix and what he was able to do and it's so rare a lot of these quarterbacks have only had 13 14 starts in college and that's a big jump than going into the NFL and expect them to play well.

53:28Jason Kelce:Is there anybody out there that's struggling in the league right now that you would say might be the next Sam Darnold? Not offhand, not offhand. You know, when I going back to that draft, Sam was my number one guy. I mean, when I evaluated him, I thought the one question mark was Sam in college was the turnovers. He turned the ball over a lot in college, fumbles and interceptions. And he still has had some of that in the NFL. but early on it looked like well maybe it's just not going to work out for him but like we said he goes to San Francisco backs up then he goes to Minnesota and then what he's done this year in Seattle has has been awesome we've seen that from Baker Mayfield Josh Allen was a bit of a project coming out of college people thought it would take him longer than it did and he's the one who had the most success right away so I've talked to so many people who evaluate quarterbacks for a living and and i've said hey when you walked in and met with aaron rogers coming out of college or joe burrow or whoever did did you know they had it and and it's about 50 50 you know i mean it's a coin flip as to whether or not what what you think is what they're going to become and uh and that's why that's why there's so many people that have been wrong uh it's not an exact science and getting these guys right.

54:47Jason Kelce:Well, quarterback is even the hardest one to judge, I feel like, because like you've been saying, there's so many intangibles that determine whether that guy pans out. We got a great one coming out this year. He took college football by storm this year with both his play and his personality, man. He's a bit of a unique individual and Fernando Mendoza over there at Indiana, obviously national champion. Everyone's saying he's going to be the number one pick. What's your read on him if you've been able to catch him playing football? I haven't studied him. I've seen him play a little bit. You know, my college football viewing is really more or less the game's on and I'm studying, preparing for our broadcast or whatever.

55:28And so it's more background noise. So I don't really study him too hard. A big fan of what he's been able to do. A big fan of that university for that matter and what Kurt Signetti accomplished. I mean, it's just remarkable. I mean, it's just blows me away. Speaking of him, not to avoid your question, but they played UCLA a year ago, week three, I'm home on a Saturday, they're UCLA, Indiana at the Rose bowl. Uh, and they start talking about Kurt Signetti and I'd never heard of him before. And they say he came from James Madison. They go through his whole thing. They played the soundbite of, you know, all I do is win Google me.

56:04And, and so I got, so I got I got I got it so locked in like it that's when television worked you know like it hooked me and I was and it wasn't because of UCLA it was because man I want to know more about this Kurt Cignetti this old ball coach man and I'm watching his team play and you could tell they were just so well coached you know that they'd catch the football they're three yards short of the first down but the guy immediately catches it nice up the field picks up the first down I'm like man these guys they've been well coached so i've been following them ever since and uh so i'm a huge fan of what he's done now mendoza i i will say i was just having this conversation with someone else that every year there is a best quarterback in the draft right there's always a best quarterback but it doesn't mean that every year there's a franchise quarterback in the draft and i think that i think that that's what and i'm not suggesting that mendoza is not a franchise quarterback at all.

56:59I'm just saying that, you know, that's, that's what has to be evaluated. Is he the first overall pick? Should he maybe not be the first overall pick? It's just that, as we've talked about, the league is so starved for quarterbacks. And if you're one of those teams that needs one, man, they all look like franchise quarterbacks.

57:19So I like him. I like his accuracy a lot man tough uh he's played in big games he's shown it on big stage i think there's a lot to be said for that uh and now it's a matter of can he get to the right place is is vegas that place where he can really excel um it's easy to say yeah because tom brady's an owner and he's got a vested interest and he's going to be right there but he's not going to be right there you know and there's a there's a lot that is happening within that organization so So, but I like the young man and I'll be pulling for him. I pull for all these guys to play well. I'll be pulling for him when he gets his chance.

57:58That's awesome.

57:59Jason Kelce:Yeah, absolutely. Thank you to our partner, Liquid IV. When it comes to travel, I love a good road trip or discovering the best food spot in the city. Yep, that's right. You're driving through some random town. See you lying out the door at any tiny place and you just know you got to try it. You know it's going to be good. Next thing you know, you're telling everybody about the best tacos you've ever had. And those unplanned detours, well, that's what it's all about. And Liquid IV is the best road trip travel partner to stay hydrated throughout those trips. Just one stick in 16 ounces of water hydrates faster than water alone with an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins, and clinically tested nutrients that Liquid IV dubs HydroScience.

58:40Jason Kelce:It turns ordinary water into extraordinary hydration and comes in delicious flavors like lemon lime, popsicle firecracker, and white peach. Stay hydrated for every adventure with on-the-go hydration from Liquid IV. Tear, pour, live more. Go to liquidiv.com and get 20 % off your first purchase with code NEWHEIGHTS at checkout. Thank you to our partner, Lionsgate Michael. It's my middle name. So something pretty incredible is hitting theaters on April 24th. It's called Michael, the new biopic about Michael Jackson. And here's what makes it incredible. Jafar Jackson, Michael's actual nephew, is playing him in the film.

59:18This is incredible. This isn't just about the greatest hits or the iconic dance moves. This goes deeper. It's the real story of how someone became a legend.

59:28Jason Kelce:The journey behind the music that changed the world, Michael Hits Theaters April 24th. And honestly, this is one that you're going to want to see on the big screen. Head to your favorite theater's website and grab your tickets now. The Michael Jackson biopic, only in theaters April 24th. Thank you to our sponsor, Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking the street signs before parking the car. Ah, that'll get you a ticket. The only trip you're taking in that instance is to the tow lot. That's right. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds.

1:00:07You're in good hands with Allstate.

1:00:10Jason Kelce:Potential savings vary. Subject to terms, conditions, and availability, the Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Let's get to this segment right here. We call it Get Off My Turf. Get off my turf! We need to narrow these field goals. It's too easy to kick field goals now. We're also out on these touchscreens on the walls. I'm out on that too. I am out on that too. Oh, I want a smart house. What the f*** is wrong with morons? Get off my turf. Get off my turf! It's a new segment for us. Sick of this new wave, man. We've been bitching about all types of shit on how the NFL has changed, man.

1:00:46We're huge. We loved the fucking wedge back in the day, man. Get the big boys out there locking arms, fucking full-on collisions. Like, why change that? That's the most exciting. Fuck, that's the start of the game right there. I get to see some action. The wedge. I haven't heard the wedge. You're talking to two wedge guys right here. We fucking love that shit. Crackback blocks being legal, defenseless receiver rules. man i just watched the doc and and michael irvin is just out here just enjoying every single lick he's taken over the middle man just becoming bigger of more and more of a beast every time he catches one man and that's that it's just it's just a different game so jason go ahead

1:01:24Jason Kelce:i was a wedge buster i was a wedge buster in college before i started i was running down in knee braces and they said jason just take out this wedge no joke no joke me and ricardo matthews a d-limon that played in the league for a long time they said we could get down there faster on anybody anyways. I'm like, hey, UCF had a really good kickoff. Hey, guys, just go down there and take the wedge out. They do all middle returns. It'll be great. We go down there. We blow this four-man wedge up. It goes 106 yards to the coast down the sideline. Let's reevaluate this. Maybe have some savvy. Maybe get to the ball.

1:01:57Troy, you would have fucking loved to see this dude running down because it was in his transition. You heard him say knee braces. Yeah, well, that's what I was going to say. I would have loved to have seen him not only run down the field, but run down the field and knee braces. That's right. he had just made the transition over to the offensive line. It was the rule that all linemen needed to wear knee braces. So he had this big old, it was like he had a yoga ball on his waist, man. He had this big old gut because he was trying to gain weight to play all line, had the knee braces on, but still had like that linebacker athleticism a little bit.

1:02:29Jason Kelce:Not quite, not quite. Nothing in that belly more than beer and subway, man. It was hilarious. He was, he was, he was a baller. We're going to give you 40 seconds, Troy, I air out any complaint you have with the modern game of football. Do you have anything that right off the top of your head you can think of? I guess what I don't like is, and I'm a former quarterback, of course, I don't like the extent of some of the protection on the quarterback is probably my biggest complaint just because it, man, it just the whole objective for a defense is obviously to get to the quarterback. I mean, if you do that, you got your chances of winning, go up and and these guys man i i've never played defensive line or any of that but i can only imagine that you're fighting through 300 pound offensive linemen you're getting twisted and torqued in all kinds of directions and yet you're trying to get to the quarterback and and if you get there and you don't do it exactly the right way then there's a penalty and i just i don't like that i don't like that at all now there's so much that's been done to try to protect players and and i'm i'm all for it but right you talk about a wide receiver back in the in the you know going back prior to the 2000s i mean if you went over the middle it was up to the quarterback to protect the receiver and now they just quarterbacks will just throw it anywhere because they know the quarterback or the receiver is not going to get hit and what i see a number of times is defenders they don't know how to play it like they're caught in no man's land they don't know whether to try to make a play on the ball just just try to tackle the receiver i i feel bad for the players the the gladiators that are in the arena they don't really want the protection you know they're the the players are the ones always saying hey we're good let us play i signed the contract i'm good i'm ready i i agreed to this that's right so that's uh that's what's kind of different and and odd about the whole thing couldn't agree more yeah i don't want to be the get off whatever the segment's called to get off my lawn guy you don't want to be that all right all right we'll be those guys thank you for thank you for playing along we'll get we'll get you out of here after this last segment man we always uh end it with a little bit of we gotta ask but you can clearly not answer you can just tell us to fuck off troy um but uh but we we gotta ask these questions i gotta ask the first one i got to because this is the most impressive highlight i've ever seen in the nfl is larry allen chasing down that interception the most impressive thing athletically you've ever seen in the nfl probably i mean this i've seen the clip you're talking about and i remember i remember the play like it was yesterday and and yet he was so athletic that i didn't think anything of it at the time that it happened

1:05:15larry got to him before i did you know okay i was pissed that it was an interception but But then I see the clip and you're like, whoa. I mean, he was a freak and he was the quietest, shyest guy in the locker room. Oh my gosh. I mean, he wouldn't say two words, you know? I mean, he was so shy. Styling assassin, man. And he'd get on the field and he would just destroy people. I mean, he was amazing.

1:05:49Jason Kelce:I think of that clip. I think of that. What did he put up on the bench press at the Pro Bowl the one year? It was like some absurd number. Yeah, I might have been 800 pounds or something. It was after I had retired that he did that. And just a gentle giant. I mean, God rest his soul. You know, he passed a few years ago. But I'd reached out to him. I'd heard he was struggling a little bit. And he was just a gentle giant. I mean, just an incredible. his his son went to harvard harvard or yale uh played football i mean he was a family man raised great kids uh everything he did he invested back into his family you know the the words goat gets thrown around a lot you know greatest of all time and all that i i mean there's a lot of great linemen uh and and i'd put a lot of others on par with him but i wouldn't say anyone that's ever played's been better than him i i know that and uh love love having him as a teammate as well yeah baby close friend of mine andy reed uh it says that uh he maybe have called you in 2002 yeah uh while you were while you were on the fox broadcast to see if you maybe be interested in playing for the philadelphia eagles that's right yeah we were in that window we were at old jack murphy stadium i was in the three-man booth with collinsworth and and joe buck and we had just done a game break that Donovan McNabb had just broke his leg and the Eagles were playing really well they were number one in the NFC at the time as mid-season we're getting ready to go to halftime and my producer Richie Zion says hey I've got a number that I need you to call at halftime which he had never done and I was in my like third year third year middle of a broadcast and I'm trying to call from uh the booth at halftime and there's no cell service so I walk out onto the concourse because this was an old stadium it was old jack murphy so i'm out on the concourse fans are walking by of course they're like hey f you aikman cowboys i got i got i said hey he says hey it's andy and i said andy reed he said yeah and uh he says you know you heard what happened didn't you and i said yeah we just did a game break on and he goes well i want to talk to you i said andy i'm in the middle a broadcast he said i know you are he said i need you to call me after the game and i said all right so i called him after the game and he was selling me on why i should come out of retirement and go go sign with the eagles and play for them they were playing monday night the following game was on monday night against the 49ers and uh ty ty detmer was the he i i decided obviously i didn't i didn't do it i said i i didn't go you didn't pull the old man rivers I was on my way up to Montecito, Santa Barbara after that game.

1:08:35And I'm driving up and I said, I can either keep on going north and enjoy a week in Montecito, or I'm going to be on a plane in a blizzard in Philadelphia, you know? And Edmer goes down the very next week. He gets hurt against 49ers. A.J. Feely takes over. He wins five straight games. McNabb comes back from his injury, finishes out the season. and the Eagles went to the NFC Championship game that year. So it wound up being still an amazing year for them. There you go. What a fun story, man. That's crazy. I can only imagine trying to be on the main concourse while flies are yelling at you. It's like, this is Andy?

1:09:16Oh, man, that's too funny.

1:09:19Jason Kelce:Speaking of Philly, do you have any favorite stories from playing in Philly? I know they're good on defense now, but back when I played, it didn't matter if it was Buddy Ryan, Bud Carson, Ray Rhodes. I mean, it didn't matter who their defensive coordinator was. They beat the dog shit out of quarterbacks. I mean, it was 91. They were number one against the run, number one against pass, number one overall. They were knocking quarterbacks out every week. And my first game against them, I didn't know a lot about them my rookie year. Our first game was on Thanksgiving in Dallas. And at the end of that game, and that was the year, obviously, we weren't very good.

1:09:54And at the end of that game, they x-rayed both shoulders, both knees, my elbows. uh i thought i i thought i had broken bones through my whole body we we had to play the eagles two weeks later and after they x-rayed me after the game they said yeah no everything's good i said everything's good and i had to go back two weeks later and play against these animals i mean they were brutal and that was a game they were throwing uh you know they had the snowballs with batteries and you know they were the Santa Claus throwing snowballs at him on his little tricycle I mean that that stuff that stuff was real you know that's amazing yeah yeah they were I remember we were sitting around at a round table one off season as me Favre Elway and I think Warren Moon they asked us where our least favorite place to play was our toughest place to play and they get to me and I said uh said Philadelphia I mean it was hands down Philadelphia the worst place to play and and Favre and they go to Favre and Favre says Philadelphia and I said what do you know about Philadelphia he only played there one time in his career and it was like four years earlier I said I got to go there every year these guys are I mean that that defense was so they were so good I mean, Reggie and Clyde Simmons and, you know, the list goes on and on.

1:11:20Seth Joyner. Yeah. Eric Allen. I mean, they were just dominant. We got a running joke on here that an average fan couldn't get a single yard in the NFL. But with the guy as much football knowledge accumulated as Joe Buck, could Joe Buck get a yard in the NFL? Get a yard doing what? Running? Running the ball?

1:11:49there is no chance none none in fact in fact you know joe played football i broke his neck playing you know when he was in high school broke his neck i didn't know this broke his neck playing football get with the giggle is hilarious joe would not only not get a yard he would not he might not get up i mean maybe like come on are you serious my bad joe i said so for failure right there who's a better actor you and jerry mcguire or jerry jones and landman jerry jones and landman did he not crush that it's so fitting dude that scene in the hospital is unreal guys had a lot of meetings with jerry over the years i've had a lot of great conversations with him about his past.

1:12:41And, you know, when he gets into talking about some of the things that, uh, that he's lived through and that, that he's done, it's pretty, pretty fascinating. And so I've heard variations of basically that story that he told in Landman. And so Joe and I were talking about it, Joe Buck, and he was saying, Hey, did you see it? And I said, yeah, I saw it. It was phenomenal. I said, but I've heard him basically tell that story. I said, he wasn't acting that's that's jerry i mean that's jerry telling the story and and joe made a great point he says no i i hear you i hear you that it's his story and and all that but but he told it in a sound studio in front of 40 people with cameras and lights and and an audience you know and and he and he sold it he sold it for sure that is acting so uh i when he said that i said And you know what?

1:13:36You're right. Because we've all been on commercial shoots. And, you know, it's not as comfortable as what Jerry made it feel when he was delivering that. I thought I thought he was phenomenal.

1:13:45Jason Kelce:Couldn't agree more. Yeah. The cadence and like the way the pauses and it just came off so real. And I've gotten to know Taylor Sheridan and we were talking about that that piece that Jerry did. And and I agree. Taylor said if he wanted, you know, he could make a living as an actor, you know. and he could. I mean, I got a joke I could tell, but I don't want to tell it, so I'm not going to. All right. It would go viral, and then I got my hands full in the media for the next. So I'll leave it at that. When we stop recording, we're going to hear this, all right? Yeah. Using a former teammate to fill in the blank, people forget that blank was a problem.

1:14:29Using a former teammate to fill in the blank, that blank was a problem. um people forget that that this man was a problem i mean obviously we had some we had some colorful figures um and and well documented i might add but the the thing that you know there's a lot of people who who point to to michael and it was in the documentary of all the things that he went through uh and and dealt with in his personal life and away from the field and and i i would say that Michael, like he and I have a relationship that's so unique and it's been that way forever. You know, my mom who's passed, we, Michael and I were on a, on a cruise after my first year and I, I brought my mom and, and like my mom, the Michael and the trouble and the things that he, he got into, like my mom would not have condoned those things.

1:15:26You know, a lot, a lot of people's moms wouldn't a lot of people wouldn't right but my mom loved michael irvin because every time he saw her he made her feel like a million dollars you know and i've met y 'all's mom and when people make your mom feel special i mean you can't put that into words you can't put a price on that and so and my mom loved michael right up until the day she passed and michael and i have that relationship to where he's for the longest time as as i've gotten older you're more willing to tell people what they mean to you and that you love them and but when you're in your 20s michael was the guy who would come over see me in public he'd come over give me a kiss and tell me he loves me and you know yeah yeah it's just and regardless of whatever was happening in his life when we went out to practice because people would say how how do you and michael or how are you and michael so close and i said you know what when we go out to practice it doesn't like we live totally different lives but he gets out there and he runs every route like he's preparing for the super bowl it's never affected the way he prepares during the week and that's all i cared about i mean if a guy if a guy came and showed up to work and was ready to get better that day and help us win man it was go do whatever the hell you want and that was michael i don't know how he did it because he ran hard away from the facility, but he ran hard at the facility as well.

1:16:51And it's why we were as close as we were. Man, I love Irv, man. He's the best, dog. He's a piece. He's one of one, for sure.

1:16:58Jason Kelce:Do you have a welcome to the NFL moment? You might have already named it with the Eagles game from your rookie year, it sounds like. It was the Eagles, and it was my rookie year, and it was Thanksgiving that I talked about that, you know, in college, a big guy breaks through the line uh you know i wasn't the fastest guy in the world but but i could run i i i ran the wisp bone at ou uh when i was playing at oklahoma but uh you know you just run away from them you know you run away from it you throw the ball and you know you go on to the next play and we're playing uh the eagles and and reggie white got through them got through the line so i take off running and then somebody somebody tackled me from behind and i was just like who was that i didn't know they brought a linebacker or something when i got up it was it was reggie and that's when i that's what i remember thinking man this this league is this league's different when you've got 300 pounders like reggie white who are running you down from behind and yeah so that was my that was my welcome to the nfl moment that's a mean guy chasing you for sure troy we can't thank you enough man one of the best to do it on the field in the booth stand up guy man thank you for all the nuggets of gold the wisdom the stories brother and of course the time man this is fun man you got it you got it man i appreciate you guys having me you guys are awesome thank you so much thank you to troy aikman for stopping by man i still remember having those uh action figures when i was a kid man i i even when i watched little giants i was like i kind of like the cowboys man aikman had those cowboys jerseys looking fucking sweet in the 90s man shout out to aikman for all the stories man.

1:18:38Obviously one of the best broadcasters out here, but for all you young bucks, man, go watch some Aikman highlights from the 90s, man. You won't regret it. Once again, that conversation is brought to you by Amazon.

1:18:49Jason Kelce:And that wraps up another episode of New Heights. Thank you to Troy Aikman. Make sure you subscribe to the New Heights channel on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Once again, New Heights, a wondrous show brought to you by AT &T this week. Ha ha! Still got it! Follow the show on all social media. Add New Heights show with What S for Funk clips throughout the week to our new heights production team thank you guys for always making us look good and uh you guys are really the uh the engine that keeps this thing going man we appreciate you guys and thank you to the 92 percenters for tuning in each and every week hopefully you enjoyed it as much as we did and we'll see you next week peace

1:19:34does um into interpret x want to sponsor my trip to the zoo the la zoo no i went to the living desert in palm springs it's better oh you're full of shit i'll take you you're you're as close to san diego as you are the fucking desert so i was in i was in the desert looking at wedding deniers This was not a zoo trip. Oh, Brandon. Jay Travis. So nice. It was very nice. And here's what I've learned. It's expensive. Oh, fuck. Oh, yeah. I said, Lauren, how serious are we? Honey, there's an Applebee's right there.

1:20:09Jason Kelce:She'll say yes to that. Honey, you know I love you. It's$3 margaritas. How much are we really looking to spend on people? Half off apps after 10. After nine, actually, they moved that up an hour. They have something called a triple dipper. I think our guests will love that. Yeah, let me know when you guys want to come out. I'll book it around your schedules. Are we invited? You guys are both invited. You skipped Jake's. You got to come to mind. You're getting married at the zoo. Honestly, I would get fucking married at the zoo. I love a little wallaby running around. Dude, do not. Don't tempt me.

1:20:34Just come out on an elephant. That's epic. Dude, they had rhinos, man. If you fucking rhinos are sick. Bro, rhinos are fucking. They're sick. Very intense. Did you go in the cage with them? No, they don't give me the Travis Kelsey tour. Don't do it. I'm with Gin Pop. They keep me behind the fence. It's terrifying. but they're like, you're looking at an alien when you see them fucking around. Like, holy shit. I have a ridiculous AI algorithm right now of Iona's. I, Iona's Iona. Iona's Iona. Yeah.

1:21:07Jason Kelce:That one is hilarious. The one where he's just laughing in the front seat. That's one that I had to look up. Like, I'm like, I know this is fake, but I just like, let's just see if it says. Jason, you had to look that up. You had to double check. I mean, I knew it. The hyena had a mascot. Brock, is this real? Hilarious. Just comment section. Just a quick glance, making sure. You can't ask AI about another AI thing being real because then they're on the same team. They're going to say, yeah, it's real. The robots get together. Yeah, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's real. That's real. That's real.

1:21:39That's real. That's real. That's fine. Love it.