Chiefs Matt Nagy on his Mahomes 'Cheating', Rookie Kelces, Andy Reid Lessons & "Swingin' D" | Ep 147

25:17Did you give him the answers to the test? You gave him the answers to the test, Knicks? Yeah, man. And fortunately, it ended up working out pretty good. You know, I mean, Veach and I were, you know, we knew how much Veach and Coach Reed liked them. And obviously, I was in love with them, too. So like, you go into that process. And you guys know that whole deal with the combine and how it goes. But man, when you're convicted with somebody and you feel the way that we all did, I don't know, I guess it was better to ask for forgiveness and permission. One of those deals. I love it. Yeah, I'll never forget it because we just sat back and we went through off to the side in the deal, like in between meetings throughout the day.

26:00It was the middle of the day. We actually talked a little bit through August special, Trav. Come on now, baby. You know, just a little bit of some simple plays, but a few of them. And we also just said, hey, man, you can't you got to get one or two wrong here. It can't be 100 percent on the test. You got to get like a 95. Yeah, he killed it in the deal. And I think it stayed pretty quiet for many years. And then I guess he's the one that busted it out a few years ago. I love it. Fortunately, it ended up working out. Unbelievable, dog. Well, let me ask you this. What made you so confident that Pat was the guy coming out to do that?

26:36You know, watching the tape, when we watch these players on tape, you know, you sit there and you can't put the tape down. You just want to keep watching more and more and more. And as you're watching it, you just see the plays that he's making and these stupid throws that, you know, he saw so much drop eight in college. There was so much drop eight. So it was like part of you was like, he's seeing all this drop ape. He's scrambling around and, you know, no one's better than him when he's outside the pocket running around. He can make special throws. And he was doing a lot of that. So the question was like, OK, what type of person is he?

27:05And, you know, what's his football IQ like? And does he love the game and all the stuff, the intangible things? And so, like, as we all started watching more and more tape, we were like, you know, Coach Reed and Veach and these guys were like, we got to we got to take these quarterbacks. we got to bring them into into the room and spend like you know a good six to eight hours with each of these guys in that draft class and really you know we knew how much we loved the player but bringing him in and just seeing him take it to the top with the person side of it was oh yeah unbelievable and like you could just see like he was special and you didn't know it until things were going to happen but I mean my gosh like we were all on board it was all conviction and we I just couldn't put the film down.

27:46He was just special. I hear you, man. I'm with you on the first time you meet him, man. That first, what's up, dog? That first, like, yo, it was good. It's like your family forever after you get that from him, man. He's such a good dude. I already know. He's going to ace that part of the test every single time, and I'm sure the football IQ was already through the roof when he got in. The second that happened, the moment it happened, we were super excited. And, you know, it just was it was one of those deals where then he came in as a freshman or excuse me, as a rookie with Alex, you know, and it's like an Alex taught me as a young position coach.

28:22You know, he's one of the most special human beings and people in my life. And what he did for that room and for Patrick and for myself and coach, everybody that that year will all never forget it. And I just could tell story after story of that season of how good he was to Patrick. And also how well Patrick came in. Like, Patrick didn't come in trying to be like, hey, I'm the future guy. He came in the best teammate he could possibly be. No doubt. And it just took off. And I think, like, you know. I'll say this, though. A lot of the times that it's a two-way street. But the veteran in the room usually dictates how that goes.

29:00Because if the veteran is open to it and they embrace this opportunity to teach this young guy, and to be a productive room, it usually goes well, right? Without a doubt. I mean, Alex is, you know, because of how good Patrick is, people forget what Alex did in the time that he was here. Especially that year. Especially that year specifically. That year, because remember, we all remember, because we kind of took it personal, you know, everyone was calling Alex like a game manager, check down Charlie type guy. And go back to 17, his last year when Patrick was drafted, Go back and check out the numbers and tell us who had the highest score downfield.

29:38He didn't care. And Alex was just killing it, man. And he's a winner. He's a hell of a person. And like you guys said, man, what he did for Patrick and for me as a coach, I mean, come on, man. That was unbelievable. As good as gold, baby. What he did for me as a professional, his aura in the facility and how he conducted himself as a professional gave me an understanding of what I needed to get better at. Sure. And it wasn't necessarily the attributes. It was how am I organizing all this information? How am I making myself better Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday? How am I setting up that day on Tuesday?

30:20How am I setting up my day on Wednesday to understand the entire base game plan? You know what I mean? Watching Alex and just talking to him about football, He gave you that confidence and understanding that he knew everything he could possibly need to know about the defense he was playing. And when you have that trust in not only the guy that's slinging the ball around, but when you have that trust in somebody next to you, you know, Mitchell Schwartz was the exact same way. Somebody that I could, I knew he knew the answers to the test because he was so smart and he understood defenses like that.

30:53And Alex, I would just go up to him and talk to him about pointless backside of the routes where I knew when it was zoned, he was going to the three by side. And I would just be in my mind like, hey, like, is there ever a chance you're kind of like he can back here? You know what I mean? I would just go up to him and just ask him questions, trying not to be annoying with it. But I would just I just love talking ball with the guy. And he made me such a better player by just giving me just free wisdom. Yeah. Yeah. He had so much common sense to like and like just like, you know, some guys are super smart.

31:23He's super smart, really intelligent, high football. But he also had like the self-awareness of common sense of understanding, like, you know, why he did certain things. And I think like to me, like that's your perspective, Trav, and Pat has his own. But for me, I was a first year quarterback coach in 2013. And the quarterback that we traded for to come into the Chiefs was Alex, his first year from San Fran. Smitty, yeah. He had like six or seven different coordinators at that time. He forgot more football than I knew. So me coming in to try to coach him, like that wasn't easy. But again, he was able to like learn how to trust me over time and me, you know, just try to kind of ease my way into it.

32:03Man, I'm just so indebted to Alex, man. He's just a special, special person. I do got to ask this, though, back on Patty Mahomes. From that rookie year, you had your run in Chicago and you've come back. between that first year and the years now, where do you think he's changed the most in terms of how he progressed his game from that first year? Without a doubt, his protections. He came in his rookie year in 17, and really, I mean, he was just learning how to call plays. He was all no huddle, so take a snap under center, rookie year, understanding coverages on the back end, protections. But now, I mean, you guys know how we do those walkthroughs in the morning.

32:45And as, you know, in 18, 19, 20, 21, those years where, you know, everything was just, you guys were clicking. And, like, he was learning through the coaches I talked to and through him, like, the protections. If he didn't get the protections right, it didn't matter. You know, and you got to know where your hots are. You got to know where you're going with the football, understanding that part of it. And then you can take, like, the ability to make the special throws and just know when that's going to happen. And now when I got back in 22 as a quarterback coach and in 23, 24, the last two years as coordinator, I've really gotten to see him understand the student of the game part of not just understanding and being a master of protections.

33:26Now his leadership, what he's learned through you, Trav, and your guys' time together of like how to lead the players, but then also how to lead the coaches like us that are with him, like the communication part of like, listen, you might be explaining a certain route a certain way to it. guy or a young guy, but also this is how I see it. This is how we see it. Think about, you know, doing things this way. And so like he gets why we're doing the big picture. But from, again, a player's perspective, think about it from this way or that way. He's grown that way. He would have never done that at his early years.

33:59You know, there's a lot of things he didn't know. He does know a lot now. He knows what he's seeing coverage wise. He knows when the blitzes are coming. And sometimes, you know, it's our job as coaches to make sure that we don't let that get in a way, but he's grown in so many different areas, but probably the biggest part is the change he hasn't done. He's never changed as, like, he's such a good person, and he still competes every single day. It's Patty Mahone, baby. And everything he does is Patty Mahone is 100 % all the time, and he's just special. He's in a great place. Jason played with my guy Gardner Minshew, what was it, two years ago?

34:31Character, brother. Great dude. Great guy. How's Minshew been in the QB room? He's sparking it up, or is he just, he's playing He's playing it cool right now. So when he first came in day one, you know, he started. It was funny. He basically pulled a prank on our quarterback coach with asking where the quarterback room was at on Girardi. Man, he was messing with him. Yeah, he got him the first day just messing with him. And it was one of D's jokes. So he asked him where room 4. He came in. He's like, man, they told me the quarterback room is in 4D. Like, I couldn't figure out where. And Girardi kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about?

35:08and he goes, four Ds, you know. And he kind of swiveled his hips a little bit. And he's kind of, it was a good icebreaker. I'll say that for Girardi. But he's been really good, man. He understands the game. He's smart. He's just a great guy. And I think, like, in the room, you know, he really, he understands where we're at. He understands where he wants to go. And, man, he's just, he is a character. But he also knows when to, you know, lock in and really get serious. He's studying all the time. For sure. Oh, he's a pro. Yeah, he's a pro. I got to ask you, offensive line, you drafted Josh Simmons.

35:44This kid looks incredible. Looked incredible at Ohio State. What do you think he'll bring once he's fully back and healthy? Yeah, I really love his athleticism. You're right. I mean, his ability to really show his strength and athleticism on the edge, one-on-one, being able to recover if he gets beat. I mean, it's rare. Dude, it was like flashes of like Jason Peters, like Trent Williams type of movement and bending and redirecting. I agree 100 percent. Yeah, I agree, man. He's he's going to really put it together. And I think like right now, just Jace, as you know, man, just kind of understanding the calls and all the different calls you can have at the line of scrimmage when you're going to squeeze.

36:27That's what the guards for. He's got to block the man mountain dean on the end. The guard could tell him, you know, that's right. That's right. So he's really, really been locked in, though. It's been great to see him in meetings and out of practice. He's almost sometimes a little bit too serious because he's really locked in. It's good to see. That's awesome. That's what blew me away was everybody's talking about how athletic he is, and you see that immediately, seeing him go through drills and how comfortable he is, how his base, how great of a base he has and everything like that. But even when he's just, like, working some of the scout team stuff because his knee isn't just quite back for him to go full go yet.

37:04He's dialed in. He's giving good looks. He's making sure he's helped. Like, he is a professional already. He is so bought in, and he understands, I think, what situation that he's in and being that big of a pick for, you know, the Chiefs, maybe. I think he's actually light years ahead of where I was imagining he could be, not to say that I was expecting something else. I just didn't know what to expect from him, not knowing him that well. He's a rookie. Yeah, exactly. He's a rookie. But he is dialed in, and he looks like he's ready to work, baby. And I love that about him. He is dialed in. I will say this, though, and I got to, you know, Trav, I don't know if I've ever told you this story.

37:42Maybe I have. But the one difference, and there's a back in 2011, I do remember a six-round draft pick coming in as a rookie. And I got to tell you this story. I don't know if Simmons has this in him right now. But I'll never forget it for all my life. So I'm a quality control coach, and we're in training camp in Philadelphia, and it's in the evening, and we're kind of in the middle of camp. Guys are tired or pissed off, angry, whatever, you know, but getting ready to do a little learning at nighttime in the installs. We're having a special teams meeting at around 6 o 'clock at night. So everyone's in the special teams room, most of the team, and then there's a bunch of, like, quarterbacks and quarterback coaches and assistants and some guys that aren't in there that are just kind of hanging out in the hallway.

38:23And all of a sudden, you just hear this cursing and freaking out and, like, yelling. And it's just all of a sudden, running up the steps, these doors pop open, and this big grizzly bear just pops out of nowhere and just starts MFing everybody and just starts just pounding, just pounding on the special teams in the middle of the meeting. he's pounding on the special teams door pops it open and it's just like who the f did who messed with my car you took a paper in my car you stuck a banana in the pipe you you saran wrapped it who the f did and all these all these guys are in the middle of a special teams meeting like turn around like what are we talking about here's a rookie interrupting the team special team for wanting to kill somebody for messing with his car in the middle of training camp and we looked at each other to the side as coaches we go are you freaking kidding me we got somebody here man that's good walking around i like that that was a positive yeah i know you remember that oh you kidding me i definitely don't forget that that was wild that was i was like hit the door first and avon came out afterwards and he was like man i thought somebody was shooting a gun out here i thought there was gunshots going it was just you hitting the door and i was like i'll never forget it man i always tell all the rookies that i remember him telling me that story when i was at cincinnati he was like yeah man somebody fuck with my car and i swear to god if i find out who it is i'm gonna kill him dude you're a rookie and all we talked about as coaches was we just loved it we're like yeah we got a guy six round we got he's fired up he's fired up that's awesome sometimes you just got to show you're a little nuts man yeah yeah i didn't have an issue with that don't take it don't take it there it's easy when you're nuts that's right No doubt.

40:08So being under Andy Reid or being with Coach Reid for so long, is there any play that is ever off the table? Have you ever gone to him with something like, man, I don't know if he's going to love this, or I don't know if he's going to think this is too crazy? You know what? There's really not, I will say. I mean, even to the point, you know, Kels, we put that one play in for Chris Jones that we had him doing a little bit of a pass. Yeah! No, Jason, you have no idea. It was bad. Dude, Chris, I love Chris Jones to death, dog. I don't know what it was, but he needs to stay on the defensive side. Yeah, it just, we put it in for him, and we had him doing a little throw, and it just, I mean, usually, Coach, we put it in the incubator, like with Don Terry Poe.

40:56Oh, yeah. With the jump pass and stuff. Let the thing simmer, baby. You watch it for a couple weeks. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this one was called Swing and D, and it wasn't working, man. That play wasn't working. Swing and D? are you kidding me that is amazing it had the name oh my god the reference it dude it didn't work we ran it he would check and it was a throw to me every single throw was like five yards behind me at my feet i'm just like coach i don't think this is gonna work it got canned it lasted about two weeks and that swinging d went out so no more of that that was gone but that's about the only one you know coach man and when you guys come up with the stuff it means so much more for him and he likes it and stamps it so much better when you guys do your creativity so that that's the best part i got i still got one in my back pocket i'm gonna i just need to just put it on a little note card and just you know shove it under his door one of these days man make sure he gets to him you got to get it on that on his whiteboard there and he gets that beautiful mind going in his whiteboard man and you don't know what pops up there you go speaking of coach what's it like being Andy Reid's offensive coordinator?

42:04Every single day, I make sure that I never take it for granted. And not just being the offensive coordinator, but just being with him, being so lucky to be around him every single day. I look back to when he first hired me in 2010, been with him, you know, till 2017. And then when I left to Chicago and now to be able to take me back and just get to see it from a different perspective. Yeah. He's taught me so much of how to, you know, be a coach, but how to handle certain situations, whether it's a player on or off the field. We talk so much life stuff, too, you know, that probably a lot of people don't know or understand in the coaching world.

42:45I mean, it's a lot of X's and O's, but we're together a lot. And so he's given me a lot of fatherly lessons of like how to understand, you know, with me having four boys and as they're growing up, things that I can do to help to help out and be better. And, oh yeah. And I think like, you know, this is one of the greatest coaches to ever coach in NFL history. And I don't ever take that for granted. So like, I'm still trying to take in when he gives me a note on a simple play that we've been doing for 15 years, I don't want to forget that part of it. Or if he gives me a coaching point of, uh, you know, how to coach a coach, right.

43:18And how to, how to handle a situation on how to do an install. What am I doing? Am I saying a few words, you know, too many times, you know, little things like that. Oh, yeah. He's always trying to make us better. And Trav, you know, like being together all these years, like whether it's a certain route or whatever, the blocking technique, he's always going to just try to help you out. And it's all for one common denominator, as you know, too, Jace, more than anybody. It's that it comes from love, man. Like this guy, he loves his players. He loves to see him have success, man. He wants that success for him, man.

43:49He does. And I think like that's where for me to watch that and be a part of that. I try to tell these young coaches right now, like what they how fortunate they are to be able to coach for him and what we want to do it for him. One of my favorite installs ever. My guy, he was he's up there and he's kind of talking it through. And Byron Pringle, one of my favorite. He played in Chi-Town, too, man. Listen, Byron Pringle is a wide receiver for us. one of the most physical, like, didn't get enough credit for the things he did for our team. And Pringle, it was getting, he was starting to, like, catch strides, and he had a big preseason game, and he made the team, and Coach was, like, installing a play, and he looked over at Pringle and said, Pringle, this play's for you, baby.

44:38I'm going to get you that chip deal, baby. I'm going to get you that chip deal. And I just started dying laughing. I'm like, Pringle, what you caught the button? Don't stop.

44:49Oh, man. And he did. He probably did. It probably worked. Do you have any favorite, Andy, story before we move on from Coach? Gosh, there's so many of them. Gosh, I'm getting called off guard right now. The one story that occurred in my first stint here in 20, I think it was 16 or 17. It was like a Tuesday night we're game planning. and every evening coach and I will go at around five o 'clock and we'll go down to the kitchen cafeteria and we'll sit down in between our break for half an hour and we'll grab some food and we've done it for many many years and so it was about a 5 30 on a Tuesday we're in between it's just coach and I in the in the cafeteria and it happened to be a steak night so we're sitting there and he's, he's eating, he's eating a steak and he's, he kind of, all of a sudden, um, I get up and I walk over to the trash can to throw something away.

45:45And I look over to the table and I see him kind of like sneezing and I'm like, man, coach is sneezing. Oh, he'll be all right. And he just keeps sneezing and I'm, I'm sitting there and then he stands up and I'm like looking, I'm like, yeah, I don't want to bother him. He's sneezing. I'll let him go. And all of a sudden he like he kind of like like stops like coughing and choking and i'm like the guy's choking like he's he's choking and i'm not i gotta go and he stopped and he's like oh man he looks at me and he's like he's a man i go coach i thought you were sneezing he goes no i was choking on a piece of steak and i go what i go like i thought you were sneezing i didn't know what was going on so here it is like i'm such an idiot because i i'm trying to be polite like not bother him for sneezing but the guy is choking on a piece of steak and it's just me and him.

46:32If he goes down, it's totally my fault. You had a chance to Heimlich maneuver Andy Reid. I've never done it ever. And I could have just got him and just, you know, and that would have been quite the story. But thank God he saved himself. There you go. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. Yeah. Before we get, move along from just coaching in general, from your time learning under Coach Reid and then the time in Chi-Town, from going from, you know, offensive coordinator and everything. You were even dialing up plays that year, that last year with Smitty and everything. Yeah. What was the biggest difference in leading both sides of the ball and being that head coach in Chicago than it was just being a coordinator?

47:15Like, what do you think the biggest difference was? 100 % the relationships with the entire team, so the defense and the special teams. And then understanding, making sure that those guys know I have the pulse of who they are and what's going on. And so, like, in 2018 when we got to Chicago, there just wasn't a lot of energy. You know, they needed a little bit of positivity going around. And I think, like, what we had to do was create that culture. And the only way you do that is by winning. But you've got to build trust and you've got to build relationships with the players so they do trust you.

47:45And the only way to do that is to be around them. Like, you can sit there and talk X's and O's all you want. But if you're not around them and they don't know who you are and you don't know who they are, it won't it won't work. And I think like for me, my best time to do that was to jump into meetings where I couldn't do that as a coordinator. You know, so like as a head coach, I can jump into the special teams meeting. I can jump in to Coach Fangio's defensive meetings. And then when we're out stretching, like I will walk around and talk to all the defensive guys. And then I would meet with some of the guys one on one and try to build a rapport with those with those leaders.

48:18And I think as the three years after that went on until 2021, where I look back and reflect and say, man, I wish I would have done this better, it's staying on top of those relationships that we built. And new players come in, old players leave. I probably didn't do a good enough job of creating that bond with those players and sustaining it so that when you hit a tough patch, you can get through that, get through the lows. And I think that's where I needed to be better. And I reflect on that a lot. And, you know, you guys both know me like I'm an outgoing person and I feel like it's, you know, it's important to have a good relationship with guys and let them trust you.

48:57But you got to you got to be able to sustain that. And so as a head coach for me, that was my biggest thing that I really look back on now. I'm like, damn, I wish I would have done a better job there. And, you know, you learn from it. You learn from those mistakes. Oh, yeah, that's that's all it is. You already know you learn from you're still one of the best coaches I've ever fucking had in my career, man. And I'm so thankful that you've been there for me. Well, I appreciate that, man. If that double doink doesn't happen, Matt, you might still be the head coach of Chicago. It went from that double doink to we lost in New Orleans, barely lost.

49:31We should have potentially won that at the end with the drop. But it was L.A. And L.A. wasn't like, I don't know. You guys were rolling towards the end of the year there. The defense was good. Rolling, baby. We were rolling. You're right. And I mean, you look at it and then in 2019, you know, we went 500 and then in 2020, same thing. We made the playoffs and played, you know, lost to the Saints in the playoffs. But and then in 2021, you know, we just we fell off. So, again, you know, the competitor to me, you want to be better. But I got to use that to learn it to be better. And everything happens for a reason, man.

50:03And get to be back here with Trav and coaching these guys and win some Super Bowls. And I'm going to learn from it. But I appreciate y 'all. You know, we're still having fun, baby. Yeah. I do want to ask you one question from that game. Was it your idea or Vick's? You guys kept holding the sub guy, and it messed up all of our game plan-specific runs. We kept calling all these plays in a goal-line deep. I'm like, bro, we can't run this play to a 6-1. What are we doing? I was getting so pissed off that the play kept coming in, and then you'd see the big defensive lineman run off. He was like, we can't run this.

50:38We got 11 personnel out here. It was messing up. It was honestly, it was great coaching. It was great coaching. That was all Vic and his defensive staff. Those guys did a hell of a job. I was so lucky, you know, to be able to spend a year with him. And, man, when he decided to take that job in Denver as the head coach, I'll never forget being there with Ryan Pace and Joey Lane sitting at a restaurant with Vic. And he was so torn because he loved his players so much and we loved him so much and we knew what we had. And, you know, hey, it was his opportunity to go be a head coach. But, man, obviously, he's a wizard.

51:12He's a hell of a coach. He's a great person, and I have a ton of respect for him. Hell, yeah. I was going to say, Dayton, you were talking about that 2018 and coming in, and I just remember in 13 when you guys came in, you know, we were such a veteran team. You know, the team may have just went 2-14, but we had pro bowlers. We had superstars. We had guys that were at the top of their game, like Eric Berry, Justin Hughes. And when Alex came in, Jamal Charles, we had studs on both sides of the ball. And the Tom Bally and Derek Jami, I could keep going. We had guys, right? It goes on and on, yeah.

51:58Dude, the defense when you first got there was insane. Stacked. I mean, you already know. Probably one of the most stacked defenses I've ever seen, yeah. I agree. It was ridiculous, man. Brandon Flowers. We had a whole bunch of studs. And it was crazy to me that one, this team went two and 14 the year before. But two, when Coach Reed came in, I can tell the difference to this day of Coach Reed's demeanor in having to come in and break that culture. Yeah, it wasn't necessarily. And don't get me wrong. Like, I have no idea what the situation was with the coaches before that or anything. But I heard guys complaining nonstop about how much and how hard we were practicing.

52:40And nowadays you don't hear anybody complaining. You guys, you just hear guys accepting. Get the hell out of here. You guys don't complain about practicing hard. I don't believe you hear that. I don't believe I'll be the first one to put the pads on. All right, all right. Yeah, I would confirm that, man. You guys, and I'll just say this real quick. The reason, and a huge reason that you guys bought in early on, and you guys have taken the torch, and you've just, you've done this with it. And everybody sees it now. You can't not because of you guys wanting to do it. It's not a complaint. There are times it's like, man, we've got to fucking do this again.

53:12Like, there's that. But it's the acceptance of this is the system. This is how you become great, and it works. Right. You're not questioning whether it's the right thing to do or not. Completely different situation back in 13 on the veterans that we had in there and how they were used to working and doing things and how Coach Reed came in and gave them a new perspective on it. And I really think that turnaround with that talent, you saw it immediately. We won the first 10 games right off the bat because of how much those veteran guys knew the game of football, played well together when they had that work ethic and how just, I don't know, everything came together.

53:52But I'll tell you what, man, I can only imagine how tough it is to go in there and demand that discipline and that trust in trying to break a system that hadn't been working. No doubt. And I'll never forget the first meeting that Coach Reed had that year you're talking about. And just painting the picture, again, Coach Reed, for the very first team meeting in 2013, team, we had our first team meeting. The entire team was in the team room and those doors opened and he came walking in and it was quiet. And I remember I was sitting in the corner and I looked over and in the front row was all those dudes you just talked about.

54:28Tom Bali, Justin Houston, Eric Berry, Don Terry Poe, you know, Dwayne Bowe, it goes on and on and on. Oh yeah. They were literally sitting up in their seat with their hands on their knees and their eyes were huge. and they were just staring at this guy. And the second I saw that, I was like, they believe. This is what they needed. They believe. And then Coach just took it from there. And you remember we did all that no huddle those first couple practices. Come on now. That was crazy. And it wasn't just the long drive drill. It's different when it's 18 plays of huddle. Oh, for sure. It's a completely different experience when it is a no huddle long drive drill.

55:06that is where you're fucking you just want to just you look at Alex is like just check it down just throw it just throw it immediately to the check down so we can get to the next play get through this thing man please secretly for the O-line I'm kind of all about it because the D-line is only good for the first two plays it's a big lead fest after that AJ so so coach comes in the first and he doesn't even and Trav probably doesn't even know this but he has us working all off season to get ready for this this this OTAs that first year in 2013 and all of a sudden before the first couple practices, he walks into the staff room with the coaches and he says, all right, fellas.

55:40And he puts the playbook down and he goes, here's what we're going to do. These first six practices, we're going no huddle tempo every single play. We're like, what? We have the play scripted. And he's like, no, it's, it's, we're going no huddle. Every play is no huddle. And, and we didn't know it at the time. Yeah. Why? That was his way of making them think mentally, try to break them down, condition, condition them, but make them get tired and and see how they respond to some frustration. He was like a wizard, man. I'll never forget going back to that. And then, like you said, we went 9-0, 10-0, and ended up making the playoffs.

56:11That's amazing. Hell yeah, baby. Speaking of first impressions, what was your first impressions of Travis Kelsey? We talked about me. I want to know what you thought of Travis when you first got to know him. No, man, I'm telling you what. So he gets in his first year, and you see this guy, And you can just, it's the same way with Pat. Like, you know, watching the tape, what he brings and what he did. And then, you know, he's got that quarterback background. But I always start with the person. Like, you could just tell the competitor that he was and just the fire that he had to be great from early on, from day one.

56:48And I'll never forget, like, just getting him in the OTAs, getting him in practices. And then when things really took off then, when you got in there and that, what was it, the Cincinnati game? Oh, the second preseason game. The second preseason game. The second preseason game because you had your injury there. The second preseason game, you ran an August special where you nodded the guy, caught it up the seam, and went like 70 yards and outran a corner and a safety linebacker. And we all looked at each other on the sideline and we just said, did we just see that? and of course Trav goes and he just dives into the end zone and does like a somersault into the end it's like sprawls and we looked at each other like this is going to be fun and then every every game like you just keep seeing the growth of like you know what he was able to do like the one year we got uh new england into base defense a lot so we were 13 personnel and get them in base and put Kels out there and let him run bubbles and rpos and like okay you want to go big we're going to throw the ball you want to go little we'll run the ball and block and so like playing that count masking mouse game for all those years but like just to see now i mean this man he has routes that are named after him i go and talk to these college coaches and they're like man we're running the kelsey route and i'm like what the hell is the kelsey route that's what i want to know they start showing all these routes and i'm like oh yeah that's that's this route here but man he just and then we talk about like seven different routes we have in the playbook and kelce puts his own spin on it and it's just like it's it's rare there's no one like no one else like it and him and pat what they've done um is just and then you put the fire the competitiveness the loyalty the trust the love the passion like everything about that you know jace i mean you guys are blood man you know what i mean so it's like it's just it's it's makes you such a good coach i love it i love it man i'll tell you what i i'll ask you about jason but you already told us your first impression of him was him being a fucking psychopath you knew exactly what you had in your back pocket psycho but you know it was always with with jace it was you know here here's the guy that comes in sixth round draft pick that comes in but you could tell right away he has so much damn trust in his ability and who he was and he was going to outwork everybody he was going to be so coachable and he was just going to fight you to the end man he was just he was going to fight you literally and that's what you both have like you both have that and it's like there there's that's a dna thing not all kids have that you guys have it and to do what you've done like for your parents raising you the way they have like the bond and the kinship that you all have but watching you i was you know i'm like coach reed on a lower level i got to see both you come in as rookies i got to be with you guys you know throughout this journey and i'm so lucky because like that like you guys took it to the to the max you you and and not only that but like i'm real big on just being yourself in this journey and you guys are yourselves like you're you show your your emotions you love each other man you just you're there for each other i'll never forget after that super bowl when we won against you guys the first time like i'll never forget that hug and that embrace and that look that you both had for each other and like it's powerful and like you just here it is to this day what y 'all are doing And it's just I'm lucky to be able to know y 'all.

1:00:05And I just I love you guys, man. You guys are special. So it's not getting all sassy on here, man. But I just got so much respect and a lot of love for y 'all, man. Come on, baby. You already know where emotional sons of bucks are. No doubt. Let's jump into it. This is one of our last segments, but one of our favorite segments. We got to ask. But you don't have to answer, Nags. You can tell us to fuck off. You can just tell us to kick rocks if you don't want to answer these. All right, all right, all right. Who is the toughest defensive player to game plan for in your career, in your coaching career?

1:00:36Who have you, like, watched on film and just like, man, I don't know how we're going to deal with this guy? Yeah. In all the career, huh? I'm going to stay somewhat current, and I'm just going to give a ton of respect to Max Crosby, man. I just – Crosby. Yeah, Max. I mean, he's just, I mean, he's all over the place. I mean, Kels, you know, there's times where they put him out and butched you, like, out by the sideline. Yeah, man. And that's okay, dude. And you want to talk about a guy that will fight you to the fucking end. Yeah. It doesn't matter what that score is. Max is coming off the ball, and he's going to fucking punch you in the mouth, man.

1:01:12Yeah. I love competing against that dude, but you're right. He's unstoppable, man. He's one of the hardest to ever fucking game plan for. Yeah, and I go back to the Philly days, you know, and some of those rushes that we used to see from some of that Giants defensive line and the Cowboys with DeMarcus Ware back in the day. I mean, it was – Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Right? I mean, and so – and the guys on the inside, there's so many. But just because I'm so current right now and losing my train of thought, that's probably Crosby's early on there. There you go. All right. All right. Do you still keep the BU on the play sheet?

1:01:47No, I don't. I don't and no other reason because I did that in Chicago and I haven't done that here. But I do use that every single day, man. I live by that thing. Oh, yeah. I hear it every day. My oldest son, man, he told me that. And that's something that at the time a 15-year-old told me. And I'll never, you know, I think that's powerful, man. Just be yourself. Don't try to be someone different. And that's something that, I mean, Andy has always appreciated. That's one of the things I've always loved about Andy everywhere he's been. And he wants guys to be their personality show, wants them to like genuinely be themselves.

1:02:21So I think I'm with you 100 % on that. Yeah. That's a beautiful thing of a team. I love how Coach Reed says this. And then he has all these rules that you got to like abide by, like tuck your shirt in. Well, it's be, it's show your personalities within the confines of the team. But I finally figured out why he does all these things. And yeah, I mean, he has like kind of that understanding of the military and how everybody has to you know present themselves with the right way and have that discipline aspect of like being one unit you know what i mean there's like there's reasonings to it you guys know he doesn't miss a thing either like he sees everything in training camp and practice like everybody he sees peripheral everything no matter who you are just when you don't think he's looking man yeah and my first year i was back doing the cards in the back end and i had a hat on and i had a a pencil in my ear and i heard this whistle from i'm a first year coach and i hear this whistle and i'm like and i don't react and I hear it again.

1:03:13I look and he's looking at me and he points to here and he goes like this, get rid of the pencil. That was in 2010. Never again in my life was there ever a pencil in my hat. Never. There never will be. Wow. So good, man. You gave Bears new head coach, Ben Johnson, this advice, win and beat the Packers. What's the best coaching advice you've ever received? The best coaching advice I've ever received was win and beat the Packers.

1:03:44Who told you that one? It was Coach Ditka. Ditka! There you go, baby. Yeah. He told me that. Unfortunately, we were 1-7 against the Packers and Aaron Rodgers. That's a tough draw. Yeah, that was tough. I wasn't able to do that, so that's why I gave Ben that advice. There you go. As an offensive coordinator, do you think the average person could get one yard in the NFL? And like running the football? Yeah, just back there. However they got to do it. Inside, outside zone. Get them a nice little screen out there. I'm going to say no.

1:04:28I love it. I love it. You would have to get awfully lucky, dude. Hey, listen, that's no criticism. If I was out there, I couldn't get a yard. I used to think that, you know, the offensive line could get the average person a yard. And Mitchell Schwartz actually gave the best rebuttal to this. Because the offensive line blocks it. Like, anybody can just run behind them. But Mitchell Schwartz said, you don't get it, man. They're going to be so slow to get to that hole. Like, they're going to be so out of phase with you guys. And I'm like, you know what? They're not going to know how to get to it.

1:04:59This is a good point. I never thought about it like that. They're not going to know how to set up their blocks. Yes. You know what I mean? They either got to catch the toss or they got to figure out the open pocket for the handoff. What was your welcome to the NFL moment, Coach? For me, it was probably my first year coaching in Philadelphia. And I was in charge of the scripts. Oh, yeah. Making sure the scripts and training camp are done the right way. And you guys remember Juan Castillo, obviously. Oh, hell yes. Juan went from the offensive side to the defensive coordinator. and the guy knew how to get into the system and figure out what the plays were for training camp with the offense and plays.

1:05:39This has been alleged for a long time. I didn't know it was proven. Okay, all right. Yeah, so me and Eugene Chung were in charge of the scripts. Gene! Yeah, man. Coach Marty Morniweck called us into the office as the OC at the time and he shut the door and he said, and he just read us the riot act about not letting, how the heck are you going to let Wong get into the system and see our plays? This is BS. This doesn't happen. I mean, I'm talking about he chewed our asses out. And we walked out of there, and I'm like, I have one job to make sure that the defense doesn't get the script. So now, like, we have such a high-tech system right now.

1:06:14Like, you're not finding what plays we're doing. Like, Spags isn't finding training camp scripts anymore. Like, we got our quality control guys ready. But that was my welcome into the NFL. I was like, man, I got to get this right. So good. I will say, this is always alleged, though. Like, every time the defense is kicking our tails, the coach has got the script. How do you know? Oh, you just know you're going to be in split double A against this exact play? Like, it's like, that's always fun in training camp. No doubt. Let me ask you this. It's not on here, but I'm just curious. So it feels like the NFL over the last couple years, it always goes in waves.

1:06:48And the Chiefs were such a high-powered offense for a long time. Really, NFL offenses were high-powered. It felt like points were up. Recently, defenses have kind of felt like they've been getting the upper hand. And what have you seen change, I guess, that you think is leading to defenses having a little bit more success? What are they doing differently? You know, drop bait became a phase for a little while. I think that's gone away a little bit. I think that from the offensive perspective, for some teams, you know, the running back position slash plays aren't, you know, I don't know that 100%, but I feel like sometimes right now, like those downfield chunk plays, And we've talked about it here internally, you know, like the last couple of years of being able to try to get downfield.

1:07:30You see more shell. You see teams saying, listen, man, we're going to bend, but don't break. And we're going to make teams be great in the red zone. And I think like when you look back at the coverage schemes from these defensive coordinators back in the day, 10 years ago, even just 15, 12, 10 years ago. Yeah, it was it was much more single high. It was more predictable to understand what they were in. And now you're seeing all these crazy different fronts and adjustments and blitz and back end stuff that, you know, you want to be able to try to take shots downfield. Sometimes they're not going to let you, but, you know, it's real.

1:08:02It's there. And I think that right now teams are OK with like saying you're not going to go downfield and then we're going to make you be great in the red zone and self-inflict with turnovers, penalties, etc. So it'll be it is the league cyclical. So, I mean, it's always kind of changing, and maybe the run game comes back for more, and there's bigger runs there, and then it brings more guys in the box to take shots. But that's what I feel like. Nice. All right. Makes sense, baby. Makes a lot of sense to me. 92 % is one of my favorite coaches of all time. Yeah! Thank you for joining us, brother.

1:08:36I appreciate you, man. You guys are the best. You're the best, dog. Coach, thanks so much for joining us. Yeah, man. Appreciate the time, dog. Appreciate the stories. Appreciate y 'all, man. I'm just lucky. Appreciate y 'all. We'll see you in a few weeks at a mini camp coach. You got it back after this thing. That wraps up another episode of new heights guys. Thanks to Matt and Aggie for joining us on the show. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to new heights channel and follow new heights on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You listen to new episodes of new heights early and add free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

1:09:12once again New Heights our wonder show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Audible follow the show on all social media at New Heights show with 1S for fun clips throughout the week and thanks to our production and crew for always making us look great and thank you to the 92 %ers we'll see you guys next week